Ford on selection, All Blacks aura & Eddie’s back

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All their delectable pies are made with no high fructose corn syrup. Gourmet Thanksgiving Flavors with the quality you want, only at Whole Foods Market. Right, rubbing weekly Thursday, we can two of the nation's championship on the way. Who goes here? Which old school would it's just the two of us who go? I know, not just two, we've got some great guests, but you know what I mean. We do. Yeah, it's a throwback to how it all started, which is nice, I guess. Yeah, 10 years ago in January. I know, remarkable. And how have we survived? Well, that's this pod marriage. Yeah, you just had off air. Maybe there's a book coming out to lift the lips. Do a kind of, it was my coagia. Oh my god, that he cares, that he cares, got four in his book, isn't he? Of course, yeah. That's sandpaper stories, that's a, that's a nut sporting story, but how many years on it's still rumbling? He said she said, and they can't get a handle on it. They can't get a handle on it, no one can handle it. It's like everyone knew, they're like, no, we didn't, but the moment they admit it, the moment they admit everyone knew, it caused everything into question. Oh, those wickets you got seven years ago, when it was wet, how have you swung that ball? If they admit it, then Pandora's Box is opened, if it wasn't opened already. Anyway, different sport, different story, but it's one of those where, I'm sure I listen, there's been a, been across, yeah, what is most tickling your fancy ahead of weekend to? It's got to be France and Africa, has to be, stand to France, hey, so, stand to France, stand to France, Friday night under the lights, the best team in the Northern hemisphere, they're the situation champions against the World Champs, that just feels good and proper and waterway to be able to kickstart this weekend of rugby, no? Because, yeah, I completely agree, the weekend won, kickstarted with Ireland, Argentina. We hope for a Puma performance, but I think deep down we all knew Ireland would win that with a bit to spare. I don't think it was the best way to bound into the new November leg of the championship. Yeah, we discussed this earlier, and often I feel when you're having to switch gear, so, for example, you've got the Premier League going into the Nation's League this week. We went from the Gallagher Premier, URC, Top 14, Inter, the Nation's Championship. I often feel some people just miss weekend one, because it changes, the change of focus, it's a brand new competition, you're going from domestic to international, but everyone's on board by weekend too. So I think had you started with France and Africa last week, I reckon there'll be some rugby audience that just would have missed it. No one's missing it this Friday, because we've had a load of fixtures, loads of tri-story lines, podcasts, news articles, all the rest of it, to centre and focus, to let people know the Nation's Championship on. So placing it as the first game of the second weekend, it now becomes unmissable. Yeah, it's a huge game. I think if you had said at any other part of the Galtier regime, but particularly the last few years, France are starting a game under liked at home in Paris, as the underdogs, you would go eh, because they've lost four times at home under Galtier. One was Covid, flying closed doors against Scotland. One was in Marseille. Crazy game. Crazy game that France is going to keep the ball alive, but great, great play from Scotland at the end. Oh, go. Marseille, just after the World Cup, when Ireland did number on them, but again, not in Paris. Not saying it should make a huge difference, but talking about Paris and the other two times they've lost. World Cup 23. World Cup 23. Box. This time last year. Box. So if there is a team that beats France at their home at the start, it is south of Africa. Always low to back, it's a bit against the French. They did it 14 men, so there's huge context to that win for South Africa. Always low to bet against the French at home, but they are the underdogs, not least because South Africa or South Africa, but also they've got Antoine de Pont at 10. Got low turns. And they've got no tens, and they've got loads of injuries elsewhere. They've got loads of fans. They've got 80,000 fans, and you've got an amazing ground, but they do have no tens. They're best real four, ruled out. So I personally thought Luká would play ten and do Pont nine. How those two work, it won't be a kind of you go to that rock, I'll go to this rock surely. It's got to be more structured than that, but yeah. It's funny because they're over a half with Antoine de Pont at nine and Luká at ten last week. You're like, okay cool, we've plugged and played that, that works. Let's just do that again, and they've got no, no we won't. We're actually going to flip reverse it and do the opposite of what you thought might. What you thought of the back of last week, I don't, I don't understand it personally. And by the way, they're both really, really good tens because they're both highly skilled, but I just thought on the back of what we saw last week, you would just roll that over, stop the disruption. Maybe some of it comes down to how they play, are they going to want to play a more slightly expansive game and with Antoine de Pont, surely he's the one of more of a threat in around the rock and the guard areas to bring on your big forward, so he would play that. So maybe they're not going to use their forwards in the tight exchanges as much and they're going to look to play slightly wider and De Pont definitely has more quality at trying to do that than Luká. So I guess we'll have all those questions answered very, very shortly, but yeah, it's a real fascinating one. Okay, so Friday night, that's the game that starts off. I've got commentary on five live. We're looking forward to doing that one with Paul Grayson. What are you top team? Top team. Top team. Scott and Australia, that for me is a fascinating one because I just don't see Australia pitching up and playing as badly a game and Scotland have to deal with that sort of psychological deflation of missing out on trying, on the all black scout yet again. I don't think this got much deflation actually. Okay, so because I think Australia might win that game. I can't see Australia win that game. Because I don't think Scotland would be disappointed they lost, but it's not like the heart egg. Oh, it's a McKenzie last minute. Oh, but we were so glad. They got battered. They lost by 20 points, like the game was gone entering into that last quarter. Yes, that's gutting to almost, if you're to look at it by the result of last year to this year, they've regressed, but sometimes like a last minute sucker punch. We thought we were in it for 20 odd minutes. They weren't in it. So with that in mind, I just think they're in the same position as to where England were going into Australia. They cannot, they can, it's, you can't afford to lose the game. You just can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, and I don't think they will. Because I think Scotland have an even greater ability to be able to move the ball into space. I really think they do. And Australia have looked porous and I listen to the nation's pods with grow and Tom English and Tom English and it's the damning stats of Scotland's defence is not until you hear it just an array to to you, back to back like in seed and tries in quick succession than the volume of points. And this Australia, if they get their act together can, I wonder, will they? Because when Henry Pollock went on to the wing at the weekend, if I was a winger, I'd be going, hey, Lads, they've got a back row out there, can I have the ball? Henry didn't have to do any of the things, which I think are challenging as a winger, didn't have to contest kicks, didn't have to chase kicks, didn't have to manage backfield. The Australians just didn't test them, and I was like, where's your eyes gone? Where's your vision? Where's your rugby intellect gone? Hopefully they can learn off that and employ it a lot more of it this weekend and more effort. We talked about England smarting before the game against Australia, the Australian, you know, there's pressure on this Australian team, you know, there's a World Cup coming up and Ashie was absolutely like to the point and kind of where they're at and this rugby league reliance on how they're using Swally. So I think there's a lot of heat on this Aussie team coming from back home. I just have a feeling Australia are pitching up on Sunday, but not quite sure why, but I think they're pitching up, which makes the two most interesting games for me, the games are most jeopardy to start on the end of the weekend, France, South Africa and then Scotland Australia. We're going to be joined by George Ford, we've got Eddie Jones on the pod as well because the England team has dropped and we're out the England team hotel oogs, there are a million things we could talk about in this England lineup, so just give us a couple. Max Dromo's back. He starts at 12. Well, first of all, before that, headline is 10 changes and then within that, Max Dromo in at 12. I think there's been a clamor for him, the quality, I think people always and I've reverted back to, well, the last time he played for England, it was best play on the pitch. We get to see again, real excited about that and then what we see in the back three, personally through a Friday's tour. because I think he's up on the top season is a different type of player, but he is more proactive attacking player this year. So I'm excited about that. The changes in the front row, this changes everywhere, but I am excited. I do think this is a team that is set up to run. I just truly hope that's the stylistic version we get to see of this. Let's pick that up with George Ford. Just one on a Jomo and we speak so much to Steve Borthwick in this job and he often gives a real insight into what he wants from his players and he is a few-sive in his praise of Max a Jomo's talents. He said he's one of the most gifted rugby players in the country and I agree. Yeah, so there you've got a guy with who can do it all. The bit that Borthwick wants to see from a Jomo this weekend is maybe taking a little bit of Sebastian Mackensen's game, a little bit of Fraser Dingwall's game and having that consistency performance through the 80, not switching off, being relentless in what he does off the ball because when he's on the ball just had to just have to watch him over the past few seasons. He's got those little bits of magic and you know from an England fans' point of view they'll be desperate to see the best of Max a Jomo this weekend. I think I mean we tried to Steve early, didn't we? I think Steve is desperate to see a relentless level of physicality because when he speaks about the 12s that have played most recently for him in Sebastian Mackensen and Van Rundsburg he talks about their level of physicality. He sees 12, that 12 position in a role of they are they are the back, back row. He wants to see them so physical in attack and defense and I know Max can do it but we will often refer to Max's skill set, his passing range, all those other things. He's got that for days maybe better than anyone else but your challenges to be in this team whether you agree with it or not. The role and what is clear from Steve is his identity of that role is he will need you to be really really physical so I hope we get to see that from Max. Yes so many changes the kind of selection that I thought Borthock might do before the Fiji game and he didn't. He went for consistency through the summer and now with only what eight test matches after this go to the World Cup I don't think you could have blamed him if he'd looked for more consistency he had to make four changes so to maybe his hands been forced well we know his hands been forced in one way but yeah it's just very very interesting to see the number of changes he's made with a view to build in that squad depth and maybe a few players getting the opportunity to force their way into into the World Cup squad even though it's still quite a long way down the track right George Ford is with us George great to see you as ever cap number what cap number is this George I had the the sheet here and I've just lost it one on nine one on nine yeah getting this make George Ford everyone George Ford I'm so guilty of this you've just done it but it's good no I would have said I would have been using properly but I was just spit-borne because I'd lost the team she anyway congrats on the selection did you see it coming? No not really to be honest obviously we had a great start last week against Australia and due to the nature of the short turnaround like these last couple days since Sunday like Monday Tuesday it's like full-on as you know and then you have a good idea the first training first training day of the week maybe what direction Steve's gonna go in so you have a vague idea though but it's not until obviously official confirmation you find out which was was let choose the night how does that conversation go about these days? It varies from week to week it could be you Steve's there can you come meet me at this time in his office or it could be I hate that conversation though can you meet me like it gives me anxiety we've had this conversation what the what is the best way to not a clue it's I don't need a heads-up on it like I don't want to be told can you meet me at half-six tonight at three o'clock because you know it's coming on pragging out it's like oh my god oh my captain there is that and then if it's a tap on the shoulder when you least expect to everyone's a bit like oh that took me a bit by surprise so it's I'd imagine from a head coach is part of you there's no right or wrong there unless you're telling someone to play in which is obviously you know quite nice conversation I think the more difficult ones are when when they're not but you look if Steve informs you that you know he's very very clear us to the reason why and sometimes as players you you might agree or disagree but you come out the room knowing potentially what you need to do to improve or push your guess for selection in the future so that's so you can ask for really um last week Finn was touched and go with this calf wasn't he so did you have to spend a lot of that week trying to get into a mindset of I could be playing but I might not be playing to walk us through that kind of dynamic yeah a little bit obviously because we had the alignment come the week before and I don't think Finn training any of that and then obviously he's recovered really well and he did bits and bobs of training and Monday it would have been Tuesday Wednesday last week but I think maybe what a little bit of experience allows you to do is you've got to stay ready regardless really and I know Finn was was carrying something but you know the amount of times you see a large dropout of training because of one reason another and next minute someone's playing or starting so if you part of this what I'm trying to say is the wider squad the non-23 I think a big skill have been part of that group now is just being ready all times leading up to literally kick off because obviously we warm up in games and and all them things so it is yeah I think the experience allows you to do that a bit better and you almost have to give in your position being a game driver whether you're starting on the bench you're not involved you've got to be across absolutely anything and everything weird about this situation is because of the three of you and Marcus being so versatile you know more versatile than you know you tell me right in the right way yeah it means that you could either be starting or not in the 23 so that's again another thing to throw in isn't it yeah and look I know I know a lot is it has been like this all my England career a lot has been spoken about fly-off in particular new stars and 12 years ago now when I first came in it was the same it was the same throughout that period whoever it might have been along the way genuinely the three of us me Finn and Marcus our relationship the respect we have for each of the book our competitive we are as well is probably the best of experience within the England team so we understand selections very subjective and Steve will pick a team or a 23 pick a 15 to start and the eight on the bench that he thinks is the best the best formula to win the game and we are in a stage in a position now as three turns where we compete and we compete hard but we're very respectful that if two are involved in the 23 and one isn't that we're almost like a little unit though that are responsible for getting the team the win at weekend because you personally it's been a bit of a I mean I was going to say it's been a rollercoaster you would probably push back and go look it's that's not that's how things are but if you think that you know 2025 or late 2024 2025 it was Marcus and then Finn and Marcus and then you came in back into 2020 of the bench and Cardiff then you got the shirt in the summer 25 then you keep the shirt in the in the autumn 25 then Finn's got it sit through 26 and the summer 26 and you don't get a huge matter game time in the summer and now you're back for a lot of people that could be quite difficult to sort of be in out in out kind of thing but that's where it's your point experience yeah keeps you keeps you level yeah genuinely because it's been it's been like that for however long what I remember W and 24 it's probably been a bit like that for 12 years so like yeah one thing I would say is for the team to succeed for the team to win for the team to go in the nation's championship or to go in when I woke up in 12 months time it's going to need three high quality brilliant tends to it were great people as well because you know like Finn has been amazing the way he's played for Northampton the way he's played for England is he's he's he's took it to a new level in his game so Marcus has started the season like a house on fire when he come back from his indirect wins and he you know what versatility's got and you know we can influence a game and hopefully I can add when I am playing when I'm not playing maybe in a different kind of way of like a bit more experienced than if I'm not playing like I'll I can help an influence and get the team ready I will I will like you control the lads who are not playing and make training as competitive as possible so what I'm saying is like you get the one who's starting at the weekend you probably get another another one of us is on the bench but there's it's like a three-man job to get the team ready for every week so if you think of it like that it's you've got your hands full a little bit and look if you ask all three of us do we want to play course we do I'm not same or accepting that but what we're saying is we're very respectful of the situation six they turn around you see England's last weekend school seven tries and they scored tries from the more from face play from kick return everything really good you've then been given the opportunity of leading this team how'd you go about getting the boys to a level where they're kicking on once again yeah well that's our our men focus this week is a little bit how we can take another step in the right direction by that it's what what great start it was on Sunday some of the player was was was was very very good wasn't it so like the challenge for us is a little bit of yeah we've got one one less day's preparation maybe or there's a quite a few changes in the team but the way I look at it I said to the boys I know we may have not like played many games together but that group especially the bat line has been slightly this week has turned a hell of a lot together of the last two or three campaigns so it almost feels very cohesive actually going into this week because of how much we've probably got used to each other's combinations and stuff like Max and the only new one coming into it really is probably Will Joseph on the wing who's been incredible by the way so yeah hopefully we've seen some opportunities which we can expose the opposition with this week a lot of it which Lee black it always goes on about is you know like the same sort of messaging and what we want to try and achieve with the ball has been the same now I reckon for the last 70-10 test matches and I think that's why you've seen some really because really good players because we're not going after anything too different we're just going after the same things but just becoming better and better and better at them and I think that's what particularly you're going after well just like I off the ball stuff like is a massive area so you know the way we get set in in attack the way we can why we say that is if we get set we've got options to do what we want really we've got options to move the ball got options to carry options to change direction if we need to so that's been a massive men's day of our messaging is like what we do off the ball especially in the middle of the field JVP's try exactly I think is a brilliant example of that because it's turn over go to Pollock he goes wide the minute Finns got the ball he's got Ford runners he's got players out the back and then his combination of Fairbank to get to the edge gorgeous little offload Freeman back inside that's your 10,000 hours of repetitions to get to that point where you said that's what it allows you to do it's like that race to set allows you I was going to go into the next point being like a little bit of our edge attack stuff so like if you get in the middle right you gonna have opportunities on the edge and then there for you seeing like some of the player with with the wingers popping up our furbs are fairly stupid this week so it looked if I'm going to say it in simple terms like I off the ball to get set in the middle our execution on edge is like ripping that looking at that and then the last thing he pushes all the time is just he's staying in the moment so as soon as we've got speed a ball and we've got and Jack runs or Archie runs this week is like we're just going and you can see that in the way we're playing because speed a ball is is everything isn't it because when you get the speed of all you got the nine looks great the 10 looks great and things flow from there so with that in mind it's been a tough season at your club hasn't it so has it been for you personally quite hard to really get some form going given the club haven't been going hugely well yeah obviously like yeah every team you play in is probably in a different position so like you know sail the minute we've struggled in certain areas of the game but I find the intrigue of trying to make it work and how do we get better and you take you take a lot of good stuff from me and try and try and implement it back there because what you know one of our main things is trying to create speed of all and stuff like that I think that the actually better detail and the where we go to here is like what allows you to get it and a lot of it we're just spoken about now but it's probably things that people see you know you're sitting the stands or sit watch TV or see a brilliant try we just dig it a little bit deeper know what what allows us to go and do that and it will be like some unsung hero stuff which you won't you know you won't expect people to pick up so that text time because it's like a habit thing to make to make the lads value it first and then to understand what it looks like time and time and time again probably something we're just on the very beginning of the process at sail with well I've seen previous matches England against Japan and we spoke about this a little bit early briefly international rugby is about finding the weaknesses in the opposition then repping that and just been relentless at that I think for me historically they've always been obvious set piece kick chase physicality territory though and things I think the things that England have been shy of is speed of all attack Japan have always historically been brilliant catch pass of speed and get into white channels where England haven't wanted to go toe-to-toe with them off the back of what I saw last weekend I'm thinking and I look at your team which is built to run yes go after them in the mall yes go after them in the scrum but can we can we show that we can not just Japan but anyone when we get it together go after them in attack as well is that a bit of a mindset this question why not when you're speaking then I was thinking like that that is what we haven't pigeoned ourselves into pigeon all ourselves into one area of the game the suits and we are just going to do this no matter what what we want to do is want to I mean a lot of that's good stuff last week was good to malls because I said peace was good or our scrums because we can launch off scrum so it's always in them stuff that's always important we just feel like we're in a place where we're just developing that next bit like you're saying and laying laying on top yeah like some of the best stuff I saw last week what got us going was getting the ball to space and getting it in their most dangerous people's hands which was when you think of it like that you can you can pick attack to pieces at times and say I want this running line and I want you to stand here like essentially if you get in the ball in cream at Tommy Freeman's hands and money with favor was uns cared and Zanz will George's hands in space on a massive feel like Twickenham and it's one on one two on two that sort of gets your attack going so yeah you can you can simplify it that way as well I saw good attack against VG if I was to go back to the Summer Nations Championship but for me I mean and that was fine but in Argentina it was like minute one get the ball in Manny's hands yeah right and guess what it was the best player on the pitch and then I saw Sunday's game and it was exactly the same because I think England's most dangerous players are the back three flipping heck so much class so much quality I hope that trend continues so it used to wear trend because I'm just thinking over your 12 years and 109 test George just top my head you know 2020 was a was a kickfest was it you know it was and England kicked the ball a huge amount Eddie would talk a lot about that look at the World Cup 2023 that game against South got massively weather dependent I know you kick like 90% of your ball now you're talking a lot and we saw it VG Argentina and particularly against the Walla B's of ball movement something Steve all the cast spoken about but the trend and the style has changed a lot over the course of the of the time so talk us through that and to what extent you go yeah the game is always changing but right these are a few things this England team needs to do well even if suddenly come the next World Cup there's a shift in law shift in trend how do you get ahead of the trend rather than sort of be reacting to I do think it is fascinating now the game goes in like trends and cycles and you know I'll it bias maybe one one part of the game more than other because of it could be a large range it could be the way the referees are being asked the told to referee so obviously at the minute as what we're seeing in the world game really in terms of the ability to hold the ball and the speed of all you can get and how you can move the ball to space and maybe all the ball for longer whereas maybe a few years ago I think we've spoken about this in the past where like it was literally if you all the ball pass three four phases the referee would by and large give a jackal pen so it's like if you've not gone anywhere or scored quickly then go and try and create another one of them opportunities it's a bit different now so I must take some getting used to yeah but that to go to your second part of the question is like how can you stay out of it like it like that is the that's what the best teams do and I think maybe maybe by the time the World Cup comes again might have changed again who knows but the where the coaches work and the where the players try and like stay a step ahead it is the conversations we're having and like what we're picking up it like we're having all these and I think you're seeing I think are you asking some some of that coming to fruition at the weekend and just to just to go back to to the point of the attack inside of the game is like how many how many I think as of nine and ten but how many times can I can we get the ball and will jaws his hands this week like I want him to have double figure touches I want him to Sam with cared and Sam with Max of Joe much do you know what I mean like because we haven't always thought like that as a team not that we haven't always thought about it but less and less on us on it me yeah I just sometimes think when you when you're like analysing and you think about whether games that and you're picking it apart you can not not get lost down a rabbit all in and to a certain extent but if you just bring it back to simplest terms of these guys are unbelievable athletes with skill who can run past cake beat defenders so what do they need need a bit of time and space so then even in time space I would you get the bottom and time space is it's not necessarily so much about you know we need this person here that person is giving them the ball and just give it and let him go because off the back of it that's when you can then play through teams and you create line breaks and so it's sort of like yeah because of speed of boy you can give them probably time and space a little bit better a little bit easier now which then allows you to keep the ball longer speed of ball nine running playing on top and you see in like a lot of you know really exciting tries because the best choice for me that I ever see yeah you get individual brilliance someone's going to try from 60 yards or whatever it is but in terms of a team try it's a walking for the winger because the amount of work you need to do to be able to create that overlap means that it's been brilliant attack and then the wingers job is just run it over and I think Smith was getting stuck into Pollock at the weekend he had a couple of tapens ask us a great attack absolute brilliant attack they're the best ones and the game is built around attack on average nine tries again that international level is bonkers I've seen more of the weekend compared to where it was for sure and just finally George I'm going to go to run the mindset going into this weekend is probably quite different to last weekend when you were kind of spoiling stuff. I've been written out to proof of point, bit of pressure on team out. You went and played really well. You're expected to win and win well, which again throws another challenge on you guys and the best teams of ones who kind of embrace every single different challenge, don't they? Yeah, yeah, 100%. And we're spoken a lot about this. Each week's different, each week's got its own context. You know, in relation to who you've just played, who the opposition is next. You know, there's a couple of things going on last week, which added a little bit of fuel to us. But yeah, you've got to find, and we've got to find as a team, the right mentality, motion, excitement, actually. And I think we're freshening the team up and everyone, the way we've trained this week and everyone, you can feel the buzz off, the week and we can obviously off the back of last week, take another step forward with that. So it's still a piece, I can do a piece. No, I'll do just like, how are the boys? Yeah, you know what? I know a lot's been said about that, but I think it's probably unfair to say that I think people have sent out a bit more of an impact to the performance than what it actually had. You could feel, you could feel like the performance, even before that even came out, like off the back of the two games in the summer where we were starting to see some really good stuff. We had a great two-day alignment camp the week before, and the way we were speaking about the first game of the autumn against Australia and Australia have had 15 games together, whatever they had before the plane or so, you know, like we need all them things we're part of. And then it just added a bit more to us, so I don't think we need another one who's not, that's right. What are we going to answer what we're going to answer what we're going to answer. So look forward to your expose, eh? Do you know what? Obviously, I meant it as complete banter, and there was so much made of it last week, like I've got a lot of time, I wouldn't say a lot, I think he's a brilliant journal. And I'm glad that Fordy said it didn't have the impact which some people were expecting, because I thought in the build up to England Australia, if the sole purpose or sole attention or driving force is a journalist outside a camp that doesn't say a lot. It shouldn't be a game changer in terms of the prep should it, and that's why it's good to hear Ford say it wasn't. I'm called a bit of spice. Understandably, I like that. So yeah, I'm glad he's put that one to rest. As ever with George Ford, he speaks so well, there's so much to pick up on, the bit for me, and it tied into your point you made about Manifere with both so, and how many times we've sat in commentary boxes with the likes of Ashie going, oh, he's not on the ball enough, and then suddenly almost a light ball moment, Argentina first half away from home, he's on the ball. Australia only 32 minutes, but he's on the ball, and George Fordy, he's a real student of the game who no doubt through his career is spliced up games and magnified them to the end degree, is saying, it can be a bit simpler than that. Can you get your strike runners, your power athletes, your ex-factor players on the ball as much as possible? That's quite a refreshing thing to hear him say, I think. I think we're living in a generation now where there is so much access to so much data insights that you can almost get paralysis through analysis, and sometimes you just need to simplify it. I can think of a number of different top quality coaches who I think are just overthinking. Remember, listen to Brendan Venter, an early one of the season, said him and his coaching staff had a five hour selection meeting, and I like, if you're in a meeting for five hours, I think you're overthinking it. But I actually think you're just overthinking. That could be the same as any meeting that our listeners have in any of their jobs. Absolutely. You start off with a plan, and then you talk you away in, out the plan, round the back of the plan through the plan, just like, sorry, where are we again? Sometimes that kind of right. And that's why it's going to be, this is the thing I'll have my own as much as anything else on the weekend is how we can go about it, how George Ford goes about it, because we know he's played many different ways in his career, but he probably has a reputation as he ages as more of a strategist. Will we see that on the front line, on the front foot, close to the defence George Ford, that we know he can, we know he can play, getting the ball into the hands of a Joe Moe and to, and to, to Merle and to, and to guys like, well, Joe, I think he's going to be there to shift the ball. Max is absolutely brilliant on the ball at the game line and loves it and loves it. His variety in variation of passing, if anyone watched him in the England A's has no look pass. Oh my gosh, under his sticks are so, so good. He's got that for days. He's also got, yeah, but he's got the long ball as well. He has every passing. He is highly skilled to, let's see how he gets on. But honestly, I'm not saying, oh, I told you so, or we called it early, we have very different precious to international players and coaches. We just talk about it, whether it comes off or not, it actually doesn't matter. But we spoke, we've spoke about it so many times and did a couple of weeks ago, just when you look at this England backline, where is the X factor? For me, it's obvious. It is the back three and it's the same again this weekend. So I do hope that they're exposed to so much more. Because there will be England fans who have already been messaging me since the team came out two hours ago going, what does Marcus Smith have to do to play at number 10, given the form he's been in for Harlow Quinn's given the way he burst on the scene, given the fact he's not on a run at 10 for a long time. But I would just say George Ford has a habit of reviving himself, doesn't he? Just when people are thinking that George Ford is third in the pecking order, or you know, might be on the way in as a player, he shows his class, he did it at the back end of the 25 six nations, then through the summer tour of Argentina, then in that autumn series, starring role in the win against the All Blacks this time last year. So I'm not surprised to see Steve Hawthwick go with George Ford. Really? No, I'm not, no. Well, just George Ford said he was surprised. No, in terms of once Fin Smith, once he decided not to play Fin Smith and partly his first question to him was, and I forgot exactly what his first question was, but George Ford said he was surprised. No, but I'm saying once Steve Hawthwick has committed to make a change at 10 with, you know, and he's spoken, we spoke to Steve Hawthwick earlier, talking about certain players Tommy Freeman, Ben Curry, Finn Baxter, Fin Smith, a kind of a loading issue, particularly with Fin Smith's car. So once Steve Hawthwick's decided to give Fin Smith a rest, I'm not surprised George Ford's the 10 in the same way that if, why? Because I said last week or two weeks ago, if Fin Smith doesn't make this game, George Ford will be the 10 because he's the guy who's played more recently at number 10 for Steve Hawthwick's England. And while Steve Hawthwick might say Marcus Smith is very much in the 10 conversation, it's clear from selection, he's not as in the 10 conversations he was two years ago. Well, it's clear now, it's clear now, but like, as a your surprise, you thought that if Fin Smith is not playing, who's been the second best fly half in the country? But that's where we're coming at it from different place. I don't think Steve Hawthwick is looking at club form like that. So I think if he does look a club form like that, he will feel he will change his team too much camp to camp. He will go instead on who has done stuff for him in that position in previous England blocks, as opposed to who's been the better club 10. Because previous England blocks, well, you're not making a decision based on what someone did in the Six Nations block of this year because they lost four out of five. They were half decent in the summer, they beat Fiji and Argentina. So extrapolate that, why was Henry Stade 13 against the wall to be so overworldly? So none. Because of Henry Stade's performances alongside Sebastian back in the summer. You cannot compare a 50-cap of Marcus Smith and a 100-cap of George Ford to Henry slade of 70 plus caps to Ward Joseph of one cap. So at least if you go Finn Smith who's a liar, you go. No, but it's not the same thing because it's not as relevant as a lot of people might think it could. It's not the same thing because you're comparing a single cap of a 50-cap of so the conversation of having Henry slade versus Ward Joseph, and it's it would have been a huge game. I think Ward Joseph in the outside in the 13, I think, but that's a massive call to stick him in for a second cap in a mass win against Australia. It's not, it shouldn't be seen. And I spoke to Danny Care about this. It shouldn't be seen as a bold call or a big call to play Marcus Smith who's a two-time British line and a 50 plus cap for England. So, but but now we do have clarity in terms of the peck in order through Steve Borthwick's eyes. I wasn't so clear as to what the peck in order. No, I always knew Finn Smith was number one. Number two and number three I actually thought was the other way, but now it's, it couldn't be any more clear, could it? Because Marcus just said he couldn't run much more to get a start attempt. What more can you do? Yeah, like Atkinson. I've not seen how Marcus is trained in the weeks, but Marcus is his joker and his back pocket that can cover nine, that can cover ten, that can cover 15. We can plug and play him anyway. He's the Swiss Army knife and that won't be absolutely satisfactory to Marcus because everyone wants to start, but I think it's very, very clear now if it wasn't clear before that, that seems to be the role he plays within this team because he's not now going to go and start against New Zealand. It's hard to see where Marcus gets to start at ten between now and the World Cup, but the yeah, but the perverse thing about it is he's a central member of the England team. There's 100%. So it's one of those things where if you're if you're Marcus Smith, it's it's hard to get your head around. He wants to be the England number two. 10, which he has worn on many occasions, including in places like Eden Park, unless we forget. He's played big high stakes games, but for whatever reason, and there are plenty of good ones, no doubt. The other two ahead of him, but he will still 100% go to the World Cup. And probably if there was a World Cup final tomorrow, would be wearing number 23. Yes. And one of Fin Smith and George Ford misses how completely. So it's a funny one. It's just as a player getting in. He's had time to get used to it, but this selection will be another example of him to get used to that role he has. We get that in F1. I remember Boundary Bottas was a brilliant number two to Lewis Hamilton. You could never, you probably couldn't go with, like, Lewis Hamilton and Max for staff and probably doesn't work as a one and the two. You need someone to accept their role and be subservient and be that great teammate. That's what brings the very best out of everyone and speaking to Fordy there in terms of no one's losing their competitive edge. They all want to be the number one. But more so than anything, just want to do whatever they can do to ready the team. It's very best. Only two are involved, but he says it's a three man job. And I totally get that and really respect it. Right. It's morning in Japan to come. We've got Eddie coming up. He was a guest on our five live show and he's done more media and corporate stuff this week. It's been busy, isn't he? He was there on Saturday, right, doing the corporate boxes. And it's taking a break. I don't know. I think he has more hours in the day than other people because actually after he'd been on and he gave us load of his time, I sent him an email back and I got reply at 4.15 a.m. He's great. So I just think for him days are 20 hours, we can coach teams and do loads of other stuff in a day, whereas other people can just do one or two of those things. I love his hustle. I love his hustle for a play to him. So we spoke about France Africa at the top of the pod, other games this weekend. It's the Argentina, Wales and Zealand in Japan, Ireland, Fiji and then fascinating one on Sunday, Scotland against Australia. So we won't have the Scotland and Australia teams until until Friday when this pod will be out. But the Wales and New Zealand teams have both been released this Thursday. Let's start with Wales. They've made a handful of changes, but not changed the number 10. It's been a talking point whether Edwards would come in for Costello. Bashams in for the first time in the back row for four years, a couple of other tweaks, but yeah, 1953, all blacks have scored one of 50 points on their three previous trips to Cardiff. What a big job for these Welsh players. I mean, this is a huge challenge. It's a huge challenge for any team. You don't need Alan Wainwright out, do you? You've got play like him in his form. And when I looked to them last week, I was thinking this is team with some of the top performers in the Gallagher Probe. We've got Dabby Lake, you've got Jack Morgan, you've got Alan Wainwright, you've got Lewis Riesammer, you've got Max Lowellen, you've got Thomas Williams. I'm like, oh my gosh. You've got team full of so many dynamic quality players, experience of a Josh Adams. Like, I mean, they've got loads. It's not going to be enough this weekend, unfortunately. You're all black sides there just seeing Bowden Barrett, 149 test matches. I think there's some positions where you're more likely to get it to have that level of endurance and consistency. But as a 10 slash 15, you still got to be fast, you still got to be run, you still got to run. And I watched him last week in Scotland and I thought, you're super human. They must be the most talented rugby family to have ever played rugby. Scott Barrett, Jordy Barrett, Jordy Barrett is the best 12 on the planet. I know it's something we speak about a lot about this New Zealand sort of come back off. I think Scott Robertson's win ratio is still like 80%. They still beat the spring box at Eden Park and they had some big wins under Robertson. But just it's clear they've come on a lot in the last 12 months to the point that they can make 10 changes for this game. And I still look at it and I'm trying to see where is the area they look notice noticeably weak. Okay, they've changed a couple in the front row, but still got bow at a new duel. Josh Lorde, Scott Barrett, it's a good second row. Seigners, obviously only winning a fifth cap, a Peter Lacan, what does it eat to be two of their players of the season? Roy God's different level, but quarters Ratham has now got 26 plus 27 caps come the weekend. Then they bring a Richie Mawanga, which is a pretty handy player who's kind of been managed quite carefully on his return to the fold. Antonella Browns got almost a hundred caps, alongside Quintapa. He's good. Then Faye, he's going to struggle with this one. Finneon Ganafo, you couldn't should be a new castle, but he's in the mix now. I was wondering how they're going to score tries with all Jordan, not being able to play. It's just quite old school all hours that they make changes and you still look at the team and go, that's a mad strong team. Is the aura fully back? Well, I would say the only reason I'm hesitating is because of the spring box and the spring box have the aura. Is there a certain, can two teams have aura at once in World Rugby? Or is there a maximum amount of aura that gets distributed to the team? Back in the All Blacks Pomp, so there's a hundred bits of aura. They've got like 90 of the bits. Who has the All Blacks? But now the spring box probably have the first share of the aura allocation. So they've got, I don't know, like 80% of the aura. And then I reckon France and Paris still have a bit of aura. But I don't know, so I'm not sure. They always have a bit of aura. Then the question is, has the aura gone? Is the aura back? Just don't know if they have as much aura as they had when they were the best in the world, while they are not the best in the world. That would just be my reservation, but it's a good question. What are the where are they on the auraometer? Next two weekends, we'll find out. We'll answer a few questions. From Welsh point of view, I'm pleased that he's gone for Castello again. Because I just don't know if the chop and change really helps. And there's shades of Australia in Wales at the moment and vice versa, which does then put. You know, I've put some sort of fascination on that Wales Australia game coming next weekend. And wallabies are probably better than Wales. They beat South Africa recently. But it's a similar kind of conversations. We're looking at individuals over team, a fair bit with teams like Wales and Australia. I know Australia shouldn't be in that category, but the chop and change at 10 is often sort of symptomatic of a team that's just struggling a bit for finding themselves. Yeah, Australia at number 10. How often have we had this conversation? How often would it be a conversation that's so topical when a coach is meeting it's phenomenal. And I saw him on Sunday at the Allianz Stadium. I'd imagine if he's fit, he might get a nod, but you're bringing in someone off the back of an injury with a new combination. It's nuts. In fact, I'm pretty certain. How about this for a stat about. You need to bend on my one. What's that? That in a hundred tests Australia have changed their fly out 50 times. No, so this one, I mean, it's just as damning. But Declan Meredith, he is one of six different players to where the Wallaby's number 10 jersey in the past 16 months, one of six in the last 16 months. And that's what that's an injury thing. That's a people coming and going from rugby league thing in Gordon's case, but it's also a. We don't really know what we think. We also don't really know what we are kind of and. One of six. That's mad. It's crazy. It's 16 months. Yeah. That's the old peep show. Five non's, what is it? Four non's. Four non's, Jeremy Adam's giving us the four. Six fly half's, Jeremy. Okay, let's hear from Eddie Jones. He was a guest on the five-line rugby show on Tuesday night. You get the whole thing on the BBC Sound app, but he joined Matt Dawson, Rory Lawson himself and Sarah Loads to come on the state of the Japan team. The state of the game in general, we talk a bit about the importance of a regular figure at number 10. But first, this is what he made of that England performance against Australia last weekend. You know, there's been a lot of noise, which is fairly common for England. They're fairly used to it, but they're responding in the best way that England can. That was a really physical, powerful performance. You spent seven years as the England head coach, but just give us a little bit of a taste, Eddie. What does it like when you come back here and you're in London? What is the reaction when you walk down the street? What do England fans say to you? Well, it's funny. I think a lot of good things, maybe they're happy I'm going. I'm sure that's a very polite, very nice. Yeah, it's always good to come back and, you know, to get into such a great experience for rugby, although I must admit, being a spectator and being told when the noise is a bit funny. Yeah, just for context, there was a, on the big screen during the second half, they kind of said makes and noise makes it. That's a really interesting point, Eddie, because did you find with the Twickenham crowd that they were very different depending on the opponent. England's record against Australia is pretty outstanding, you know, and you never lost to Australia. They lost once in 2022. They've lost once, two years ago. The whole thing is nine of the last 11. So the Twickenham crowd maybe does expect a bit to beat Australia. I've noticed though when Scotler in town, Ireland, France, New Zealand, South Africa, that's when the atmosphere can pick up. Did you, did you notice that as head coach, Eddie, that the atmosphere did change from game to game, depending on the opponent? Yeah, well, I think six nations is different, you know, six nations. You feel the intensity of the rivalry with the November test are always a bit, the crowds are always a bit lighter and maybe a little bit more corporate. Yeah. Um, when it comes to, to the psychology of England, players. It was telling how they were speaking on Friday and we know they had a lot of external noise, a lot of pressure on the management, a lot of pressure on the team. Did you someone get that England players react better when they were in adversity somewhat? Yes and no. I think they sometimes enjoy to be underdogs and sometimes enjoy to prove people wrong, which I think any team does. So that's fairly natural, but I think sometimes the noise does get to the team. It can be pretty loud in England and you've got a lot of newspapers, a lot of media, probably more than any other country in the world. So I think sometimes I can weigh down on the players and it's the job of the team to get the players thinking straight and the leadership of the team. That's teed out beautifully to know what noise Eddie is going to be making this week. Stir it up, Eddie. What's going to be the narrative? Well, I think the bottom line is England's probably thinking about New Zealand, aren't they? They're not thinking too much about us. That happens up an opportunity for us. Can I ask you, Eddie? You obviously had Steve Boothwick as a coach under you at both Japan and then when you were England coach, he brought him with you. What is your relationship now like with Steve Boothwick? Are you still in contact? Have messages been exchanged? What happens? Well, Steve's an outstanding case in a very intelligent man and a really good coach. So I've got the highest respect for him. Yeah, we're keeping in contact. We saw each other at the coaches get together the last Sunday and hopefully over the next couple of weeks we'll have a coffee, not this week though. Yeah, for sure. Take us into that room. The coaches get together because a few of us went to the referees meeting the next day at World Rugby and it was really interesting to see the referees interact and show clips and talk through decisions and they were, they'd all been in with you guys, all 24 of the leading head coaches all in one room. Just give us a little bit of an insight about who was saying what, who were the loudest voices in the room, what kind of conversations were being had by the head coaches in that big meeting? Well, something that used to happen pretty regularly but over the last five years, particularly they've gone right out of fashion and the referees have just had meetings of themselves and the coaches haven't been invited. But yeah, they dealt with a number of key issues. And generally, the one and two coaches in the world have the most say, which is fair enough. Okay, so when you've been flying high with, you know, around about 2019 World Cup, that's when you would have been more involved than you were. Now, were you bit more of a sort of observer than your current Robert Japan? Yeah, no, no. You generally take more of a back seat and allow the big dogs to have their say in. And, you know, and that's how it should be. Was that maybe a little bit frustration boiling over from the weekend when you sort of made that comment about how things have been officiated? Is that sort of come out of meetings like that where you just sometimes need to have a little bit of a say at that moment? Yeah, I was just think the game's in a pretty good state. And if we start mucking around with penalising attacking teams and then we only give one penalty game because basically every rut there's an infringement and there's a number of rucks where the attacking support player goes off his feet. And if we penalise one again, then it puts, it doesn't put a good context on that area of the game and can have a significant effect on the game which you did on set date. And I'm not saying that's a reason we lost, but I just think we've got a favour of the attacking teams. And it's an obvious ceiling where Jack was in place and obviously in penalising. But I saw a lot of week on the weekend some really indifferent refereeing in that game. And especially in the England Australia game, I thought that area was a little bit difficult to understand. If it's hard to understand for people who are in the game you imagine the 80,000 there that have had a few points trying to understand what's going on. Remind me of this conversation, Chris, when we're doing the commentary at the weekend and the first penalty is the ceiling off. Can we have this conversation? Yeah, it's interesting though. So do you think if, because there's no doubt that attack is raining in the game at the moment, whether that's because of the mall or because the number of yellow cards that have been given or because of the break, where the breakdown's being officiated, but you're just looking for that consistency within a game so that if they're going to ref one way, it's just consistent from rock to rock. Well, yeah, the general trend of the game is we get a good attacking cycle. Then people start complaining, it's it's favouring the attack too much. And then we go and we penalise the attack at the breakdown and then the teams lose confidence in wanting to keep the ball. We go to 90 kicks, everyone complains about too many kicks. So we then start favouring the attacking time. It's just constant cycles. And I reckon we've just got to settle on, we ever attack a little bit in rugby. Rugby is a difficult game. And if you don't favour attack a bit, that's hard to get to Newy. And we need for the game to be competitive against other professional sports and find and keep its place in the totem of sports. We need it to be a little bit more attacking than defending. Eddie, can we ask you a little bit about Japan because obviously this is your second stint with them now? Just how different is Japanese rugby compared to you going in before that 2019 World Cup? And how did things change since they were hosts? Well, just on the weekend, we've got two university students play that haven't earned a penny. They're completely amateur players. One player plays at a university where he doesn't have a coach in a strengthening conditioning coach. He's got nothing to support him. So that's the uniqueness of Japanese rugby. And our best ten who's played ten tests in the road for us is exceptional talent. 21-year-old Arigley is as good as any player of that age in the world. He's playing back at his university. And then we've got, you know, a combination of Japanese players and some foreign players. That's quite a unique combination. But I think we've got an important role to play in rugby in the world that we can play in a attacking style of game and we can play a little bit different for everyone else. And we need to play like Japan. Just explain, Eddie, why your best flight half is that university not playing with you this weekend? Because his university wants to play in the university finals, which we all love. It's just part of the unique nature of Japanese rugby. But we don't have any high performance development. So keep to go from high schools to university and playing the university competition, which is completely amateur. And then they go to a club team. And the universities can say whether they release the players or not. There's no regulation in Japan. You know, that's not there. I mean, you're obviously sort of playing the Japanese side down a little bit there. And given us some, you know, some context, but what's the expectation from your side of the weekend? You still, you can't tell me that there's anything other than that you're going to go and win the game. No, no, no, our job. Look, we're massive underdogs. There's 13 games between Japan and England and England once. So we've got to go out there and find a way to disrupt England. And, you know, in England side that's looking at New Zealand next week and sometimes we're a little bit distracted. So our opportunities are getting their course and have a course from chaos, putting on off their game, get the crowd booing, get the crowd not being happy. And then the sky starts to come in on Twickenham. And you never know what can happen there. You know, we've seen it happen with Italy. We've seen it happen with other countries. So that's our opportunity, you know, and we're preparing really well for what we're looking forward to the challenge. And to what extent, obviously, the rugby, the nation's championship, a new competition, new format, Japan, obviously, to what extent have they really embraced this? They're coming up against the six nations teams from the Northern hemisphere. They obviously welcomed three of them to Japan in the July test and then come up to the Northern hemisphere. How's that been welcomed in Japan? Because it is a shift, isn't it? Yeah, it is absolutely fantastic. And I think the whole concept of the nation's championship has been good for rugby. I think giving these November tests and some context and seeing all the best teams play up here, you know, you get a Friday night, Saturday or rugby game on Sunday. I think it's been fantastic for rugby. And then to culminate in a finals weekend, which should be, should be really special at Twickenham in a couple of weeks. I think it's great for rugby. And for us, you know, Japan and Fiji, where are the two countries outside the big 10? And, you know, it's just almost like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to play so many good teams in our own. Is there anything that could be done, Eddie, in your mind, about the July leg and the sort of logistical challenges of it? Because Fiji had to play their games in the UK. You played Ireland, didn't you, in Australia? Because Ireland didn't want to sort of go to New Zealand, then Japan, then Australia, or that kind of order. Is there anything that could be done about that or is it just the reality of so many Southern Hemisphere nations being so far apart geographically? Well, I think it's the reality of geography, mate. Yeah, you can't do much about that. And they had two of us for the Northern Ireland. countries. You know, it's a little bit easier for the Southern hemisphere countries to come to the UK where travels, you know, you're an hour and a half, two hours from everywhere. Whereas, you know, Australian, New Zealand, South Africa, you're looking at, you know, anywhere up to 13 hours, and I think that's the reality of it. And for the sake of rugby, I think, you know, something has to give, you know, if you look at rugby in the totality of the moment, it's not in a good financial state. And we need to make sure that we're providing the game. Yeah, you think about this nation's championship. They had a wonderful weekend, wonderful opportunity when they had all the coaches together to start promoting the nation's championship. You know, getting shots, getting interviews, getting russies there with Dave Renny or Steve Borthy. And they miss all those opportunities rugby. And, you know, if you look at the financial state of most national units, it's not healthy. So we need to do something about the game and the nation's championship some way of bringing the game forward. Yeah, we'd have done a podcast with all of them together, wouldn't we, Sarah? Oh, definitely. We would have done really well. Oh, 24, brilliant. Who's we're talking just off air before, weren't we guys about the balance of power in the world game? And I know New Zealand, South Africa, we didn't often did their own thing. The rugby's greatest rivalry and kind of it feels like they've raised the bar. Are those two out on their own at the moment, do you think, Eddie? Well, I think again, you got to look at the context of the games like Argentina played Ireland on the week on Friday night. They only got their team together on Tuesday, you know, because that most of the players are playing in the French league. So, you know, teams have either got an advantage or disadvantage at this stage of the season. And once you get the World Cup, everyone has the same number of weeks to prepare. So, you know, New Zealand and South Africa particularly are really much harder at the moment. They've had a number of significant tests that they look fit. They've got great competition for places, so they're doing well. But, you know, you expect France and England, I think, you know, over the next couple of weeks to really challenge those two countries. So, good said, many Jones. Oog's lots of good insight from Eddie as ever. I mean, when you're best tense playing Uni rugby, you're dealing with a different rugby culture to others, aren't you? Yeah, it's, I'm sure a challenge is probably not face to any other nation. Imagine going to South Africa, but like, oh, actually, what scores will we rugby this weekend? University's a huge game quarterfinals. You did want to pick Fin Smith, but he's playing for Loughborough. You need this weekend? Just unthinkable, but culturally they're very different. I love everything about Japan, but that, yeah, that one I'm not quite sure in terms of sports and priorities. Yeah, so Riku Kitahara is at 10. I mean, we know all about Saito at number 90s, being around for ages, but on the left wing, Riku Tokito, I'm informed it is first ever game of pro 15 aside rugby. It would be fine. Yeah. It would be fine. Seven specialists, but I mean, we saw some videos come out this week of some peculiar training methods. That's Japan are going to have to do something a little bit different, cliché, as it sounds, to just sort of overcome a lot of this adversity, to, to, you know, make it as good a game as some of the Japan English games are tweaking them, have been in recent memories. Yeah, that's the balance of a coach, but you kind of want to get to a point whereby, yes, you need to consider all manufactured different ways of where, where you can find competitive edge, but you want to do about sport in the contest. And of course, the, the infamous right gate was one of those where an edge was found by Italy, but is, you don't want to see repeat of that. I'm sure we won't, and Eddie said we're going to do all we can, we'll be within the laws, and he's a student of the game and he will look for loop holes and everything, but if England, once again, are fully focused on themselves, especially when they're in possession, this shouldn't be too much of a contest, shouldn't be too much of a threat. Quick one on Ireland against Fiji. I haven't really spoken too much about Fiji's regime change, Jake White at the hell. Yes, yes, yes, he's a guy who's steeped in experience, World Cup winner in 2007, but a South African pragmatist by trade coaching Fiji, that, that feels like you could go in one of two directions either, yeah, just what Fiji need, or is he going to get the best out of what we know is an insanely talented group of players, particularly behind the Scrooge. I listened to Jake White head off Fiji taken in France last week, and I think people made that point ask the question, does he need to bring a level of pragmatism, and that's only fair and natural, especially international level. But Jake White did back, back and said, you know, whenever you speak to anyone, the tough teams to play against, and what makes Fiji so difficult, it's Fiji and Fiji in a way, being loose, being expressive, and being unpredictable. How you mirror the two, I think, is really tough, and you have to get your message in right. They were fairly competitive against France last week, they were physical, and they moved the ball really well, but the tactical discipline just wasn't there for long enough, especially against the top side. They're up against the top side in Ireland last week who, in cruise control, against Argentina, and still with a level of honesty from Andy Farrell, we're not at a position to win the World Cup yet. So he considers there to be so much growth within this team, and he will absolutely look for this team to take us that forward, considering what's coming next week, and that's the World Champions. It's getting good. Nick Timiny plays at eight, no more of a flank, but still that back row, Baird van der Flit Timiny. I know they've got their problems at eight, but that's still very good on paper, isn't it? And then you look at the rest of the forward park, Porter, Kela her furl on Ryan Bird. That's pretty mighty. Gives him park back to play at nine with Brenda Garzbundi. Aki's back in the team playing 12 to Jamie Osborne's 13, and then with Hanson Balakund. It's a strong Ireland team on paper, and praying for no injuries. He's just plotting. You feel Andy Farrell's just plotting. He knows where Ireland are, they know where near where they were four years ago, 2022 going into 2023, but he's just building his depth in kind of a quite understated way. He's making big changes to his team, but then it doesn't look like he's making big changes to his team. I'd think what we want to see over the next few weeks is people make a run now. Can Ireland announce themselves as potential World Cup contenders by beating the spring box? Can England do likewise by beating New Zealand? Can Wales show them go toe-to-toe with the all blacks or the Wallabies? Can Scotland recover from New Zealand to put the Wallabies away, which they should be doing in Edinburgh? So I think a lot of our questions, which we're still asking are going to be answered over the next few weeks, all being well, and setting up a finals weekend, which we haven't spoken about much, but we'll get an idea when we're after this weekend. There's no point speculating after weekend one, but after this one, we'll get a real idea of who could be shaping up to face who come the end of the month. Yeah, and we could get those repeated fixtures depending on the connotations of this weekend, the South Cople against France, the South Cahavalan blemish record France have lost one. That was New Zealand in the summer. Ireland have lost their lost against the all blacks. They're in a really good spot, but they're still down the rankings beneath England. England underscored more tries than them have gone extra bonus points. So they had, depending on what happens with South Africa and New Zealand, we could get to a point where England play New Zealand next week and then play them again in the finals. Back to back. There will have to be some repeats. There will have to be some repeats somewhere. They will. Ireland could play South Africa next weekend and then South Africa and the following again. I just think with a fine or you want it to feel different because it is different and you're playing for something like in any other competition or tournament, you're not going to go for a World Cup semi-final and knock someone out and go, "Oh yeah, now we're going to have a really good match." But if Ireland were to beat South Africa and finish number one, because they France, New Zealand, England, New Zealand, whatever. And South Africa still managed to be number one because New Zealand actually wouldn't really work somewhere New Zealand would have lost. But England could beat New Zealand next week. Yeah, but Ireland still finished, could still finish above them? Yes. There's probably no point of speculating now. I'd just quite like those back-to-back if there's a bit of narrative around revenge in this thing. But there's still loads of, I mean, yes. Talk about revenge. South Africa, France, France, humbled last year in their own patch. Well, they don't use very often. England beating New Zealand. New Zealand does have memories like elephants when it comes to defeats. So that's going to be massive ahead of next weekend. So it's all building up nicely. First weekend, what's six? Don't do the internet means. Six, six, seven. I think it's going to start getting better and better. Let's hope. Let's hope. Lose on five live. Lose on support section. Lose on BBC sounds. Lose on the rugby and weekly podcast. You won't miss a thing with us and we'll see you soon. Cheers. Thanks for downloading Rugby Union Weekly. For more info. 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