Speaker 1Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud, the podcast where we get real about mental health and addiction recovery. Today's guest is Natalia Fomichenko, an ICF certified career and confidence coach based in London, England, and the co-founder of La Visionnaire, a thriving community for ambitious international women. Before becoming a coach, Natalia built a powerhouse resume in consulting, earned her MBA from London Business School and Columbia University, and held leadership roles in fast-growing tech companies. But behind the scenes, she was silently struggling with an eating disorder that forced her to rethink everything she knew about success and self-worth. Now in recovery, Natalia helps high-achieving women redefine confidence and build lives on their own terms. In this episode, we explore the hidden layers of food addiction, body dysmorphia, and the parallels with substance use. We discuss, how control and shame fuel disordered eating and sobriety, body image struggles that continue even after quitting substances, learning to re-parent your inner critic, what true recovery feels like and how to reclaim it. If you've ever felt like you've swapped addictions or you're silently battling a toxic relationship with your body and food, this one's for you. Please follow and subscribe to support the channel. We appreciate you. Enjoy the show. Hello, Natalia. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2Hello. Hello, Anthony. I'm great. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1Thank you so much for taking the time. You're calling in from the UK and I really appreciate it. We had a really good conversation before this and I'm looking forward to our conversation today. You know, we, we talked about a lot of, and we're going to talk about a lot of the parallels with, you know, food addiction and eating disorders and addiction in general, right? So I want to get right into it, but how do you think, do you want to describe, actually, let's do this. Do you want to describe a little bit about, you know, your story, how you came into this field and how you help other people get through this as well?
Speaker 2Yes, sure. So, um, I was born and raised in the United States. I was born and raised in the United So addiction topic is close to my heart, but it's not the usual addiction. It is an eating disorder. So I used to have an eating disorder for seven years. There are multiple eating disorders on the market. I had a binge eating disorder, which is basically consuming a lot of food when you feel down and when you have self-deprecating thoughts. It was very similar to your usual chemical addiction or alcohol addiction in the sense that it's the eternal circles of dissatisfaction, loss. Looking for some pleasure in your life, going into a binge with food in my case, and then feeling distracted during the binge. But then right after feeling the immense amount of guilt and not liking your life at all, promising yourself that you will stop tomorrow and before tomorrow you're going to just do twice, three times, ten times more food. Consumption than usual because tomorrow you're stopping and then tomorrow you feel so bad about yourself when you wake up that you just repeat the cycle. And I lived this life and I didn't tell anyone that I had this. Only my close people knew. But I think it's important to bring awareness about this topic because in the high achiever world that I live in, which is, you know, you're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that.
Speaker 1You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that.
Speaker 2You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that.
Speaker 1You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. Yeah. I think there's a lot of parallels between our stories. And, you know, I was always told by somebody in recovery that, you know, it's the same shit, different shovel. And I always love that because it doesn't matter what I use externally. I'm the exact same as the food addict. I'm the exact same as the gambling addict. I'm the exact same as the heroin addict. Just because I didn't get into heroin yet doesn't mean that I'm any different. You know, it's using outside, using external things to change my inside. Right. Full stop. End of story. So I think there's a lot of parallels. Yeah.
Speaker 2And that's precisely the reason for addiction because we are using the external tools to change the inside because the belief is that we have to change something inside because, again, the underlying belief is that as we are right now is not enough. We need to be better. And so this belief, this very thought, conscious or unconscious, produces this belief that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. And so this belief is that we have to change something inside. It means that we are only focusing on what's wrong with us. And we do not even give ourselves a chance to notice what's good. with us. And normally, in my experience, people who have addictive behaviors, they are very interesting, creative, emotional, sensitive, deep, thoughtful people. And because their moods and their outlooks and perspectives and open-mindedness is sometimes so high, that results in them being more anxious about what's going on and what's going on in them. And so when we, those people, when we don't notice there's good things about us and we only focus on the bad things, we will always keep having the repeat side.
Speaker 1Yeah. It's this, you remind me of this idea of being grateful, right? Gratitude. It's pretty damn hard to be grateful when you're noticing all the bad things in life, especially about yourself. I really, I truly realize that this is a difficult conversation to have with somebody where it's like, hey, I have this really unhealthy relationship with food and I'm not happy about it. How did you sort of get to that place of recognizing, like what, what, what led you to recognize that there was a problem? And then how did you bridge the gap between reaching out for help?
Speaker 2Yes, that's the most important question. I'm a coach and that was not by chance. I became a coach as a result of my own searchings of how to tame my mind so that it's not that my mind is my master, but I'm sort of the master. Of my mind. And it took me years. But coaching work as a coachee and then later as a professional coach helps me understand how mind works and how I can change this thoughts. Because remember, everything starts with a thought because thoughts leads to feeling, feeling leads to action, action leads to results. And if we are not happy with the results, which is relapse, for instance, then we need to change the thoughts. But again, of course, it's not that easy to start thinking all the good things about ourselves straight away. So working on your thoughts starts with recognizing that we are often thinking very disempowering thoughts and asking yourself, okay, but if we are always criticizing, if there is this inner critic voice that is always dominant in our head, I'm sorry, but where is our advocate? Like, I'm sorry, why do we only have critics? So you start basically almost objectively approaching to the voices in your head to understand who is speaking. And it takes, it's a process, it takes time. So once you build this awareness and you realize, okay, this is my critic speaking, this is my critic speaking, this is my critic speaking, and you don't notice the advocate, then you start asking yourself, okay, where is my critic speaking? And you start asking yourself, okay, where is my critic speaking? And you start asking yourself, okay, where is my critic speaking? And you start asking yourself, okay, where is my critic speaking? And you start asking yourself, okay, where is my critic speaking? And you start asking yourself, okay, how can I bring the advocate voice? And then you start noticing other voices, you know, I have multiple voices in my head. And by the way, it's normal. Like, I have a diva voice, you know, she needs to be the best. And if she's for some reason, not the best, you know, critic comes in and starts criticizing. And there's like multiple, there's a child voice in my head of like, oh, I'm afraid, what do I do? You know? So there are multiple, there's a child voice in my head of like, oh, I'm afraid, what do I do? You know? So there are multiple, there's a child voice in my head of like, oh, I'm afraid, what do I do? You know? So there are multiple, there's a child voice in my head of like, oh, I'm afraid, what do I do? You know? So there are multiple, there's a child voice in my head of like, multitude of voices. And so the first step is awareness of who is speaking. Now, the second step is finding that CEO voice in your head, because there are so many voices, but then somebody needs to manage them. So the idea is that you become the leader in your own head. So you take, you think of yourself as a company. And you have to start leading that company. Well, you have to step up. So now you are faced with the question, okay, and who is the leader? How can I, you know, talk to all those voices to find out what's their point, what's important to them? What do they want? And how do I actually make the decision instead of having the chaos of whoever is speaking, you know, and doing whatever, you know, anarchy, so to say. So you have to step up. As a CEO in your head. And for that, you have to kind of grow up a little bit. Because in my case, I've noticed I spend a lot of time in my child mode. It's like, oh, I don't like this. I don't like that. You know, this is bad. Oh, like, hmm. And this is, this is, you know, it's not like we have to eliminate any voice. Child is great when you are experiencing something new, when you are, enjoying the moment, when you're like, allowing yourself to do something fun, you know, that's where your child steps in. But then as a CEO, you need to understand when and where each voice is needed, and organize them. And so the second step is to step up as a CEO and know which voice to listen to in which situation. And once you master that, then you realize that, okay, now I have full visibility of what's going on in my head. And now I can choose. So there is this choice that comes up. And now I can choose, okay, if I if I keep thinking that, then it's likely to lead me in this hole. And I'm likely to binge. And do I do I want that? And you know, when you're not ready yet for this conversation with yourself, then the child would step up and ask, oh, no, like, I don't like this rules, you know, whatever, I'll be. Yeah, that's what happened to me for so many years. But once you're ready, once you really nurture this CEO voice in your head, then you will start feeling this choice and being empowered by
Speaker 1this choice. Yeah, I love that analogy. I've never heard that before. Thank you for that. That's great. It's like a company in there, you know. And yeah, there is a CEO at the end of the day that can come in and kind of override and say, hey, you know, little guy or girl, you're not serving us right now. This is not serving me right. And I find that especially true in social situations, too, where, you know, somebody does something to me, or somebody doesn't drive the way I want them to drive, or somebody doesn't agree with my ideas. And this kind of inner ego child, if you will, comes out and is like, no, I'm right, you're wrong. And I always say this, but my biggest problem today is I'm right. You know, that's my biggest problem is I'm right, my way is the right way. You're wrong. I'm going to do it this way. And that kept me sick for so, so long, right? This, this recovery thing is too hard. You know, I don't deserve this, right? All
Speaker 2these, these false beliefs and negative thoughts about myself. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's out of balance, right? If you're punishing yourself too much, you need to compensate it by thinking in some point of your life, like, I'm the best, I'm right, I'm, you know, the coolest here. But then you realize that, well, you're not really the best, because there's not such a notion. And so you have to punish yourself. So it's always like being on those extremes. That is not helpful to you, first and foremost, or to me. I say, yeah, I've been there. So I really can relate.
Speaker 1I agree. So this comes up in the workplace, which is where you kind of focus most of your time. Like, what does this kind of look like when a person in a corporate world or a person in, you know, a business world kind of comes to you? And what
Speaker 2does that look like? Comes to me? Well, you mean as a coach? Yeah, yes. So I do not work specifically with eating disorders. I have to say, what I work with is getting fulfillment out of your career. And sometimes it means overcoming an eating disorder, because usually an eating disorder is a consequence, either of your mindset or of some deep dissatisfaction with your life. And in my world, a big part of life of people I work with is career. So if you're dissatisfied with your career, even if it looks great on paper, but then there's this inner voice telling you, look, you know, I'm not really realizing my potential, or I can do more, or I can do more. And so I work with people who are constantly in a constant source of pressure. And sometimes people escape into drinking or eating or whatever it is. And so I work to help people get clarity on their career, on what they actually like doing, what they actually want doing, and give them confidence and right mindset tools to be able to do the change and to battle this inner voices that we all have. And again, the point is not to eliminate them, but to understand them. Because if they're there, then they are serving you, they have certain purpose. the critic has a purpose to basically risk manage if we are still in this metaphor of of a board meeting so to say where there is a ceo the critic can be the director of risk management you know and so when he's given too much power he starts criticizing everything because by nature of his job he needs to manage all the risks and then i don't know who else your child could be i don't know like someone who i mean you can think about the analogy of of the boardroom maybe it's um it's a it's a strategy director who is great with vision and and being excited
Speaker 1about things but yeah like new ideas and creative adventures yeah exactly exactly so you see um you
Speaker 2you have to understand those voices you have to understand what you know how they're helping you and and find a way to negotiate with all of them so that they all work in harmony rather than in
Speaker 1you know anarchistic mode yeah yeah driving the bus forward you know it reminds me so i was a manager for a long time where i had a team of people under me and there was guys you know my company was was basically as uh we were you know kpi one of our highest kpis was sales you know we would have you know guys on my team that were not necessarily good at sales but they had strengths and strengths in other areas like customer satisfaction you know and so i love what you're saying about you know this kind of everybody has a role you know the the child or the critic doesn't need to take a back seat and and quiet himself or herself they have a role on the team and so i it was my job as a manager or ceo if you will like in this scenario that we're talking about where i just had to find a role for that said person you know so it's it's to me yeah it's about finding the strengths in the critic or the child or you know other other members of the team and and applying them so that we can at the end of the day we want the bus moving forward right that's that's the goal you know yeah that reminds
Speaker 2me of the positive psychology concept in which people are encouraged to look into their strengths and to lean into their strengths more than to you know development of weaknesses because oftentimes especially in corporate culture what they tell us is that these are your development objectives and you know if you don't get better than will fire you essentially um and so sometimes it's it's counterproductive because the person would be spending their time a being anxious about this all and be trying to improve the things that they are not going to be the best at anyways and they don't have to because they have other strengths that if they leaned in into their strengths that they would be really indispensable for organization so it's not to say again there is no like very extreme views uh on that it's not to say that they should completely ignore their development objectives and let's say if you're really a jerk to people you have to keep being a jerk it's not about that it's about still prioritizing your strengths and making sure that you're a basically living out of your potential rather than just trying to you know cut the loose ends
Speaker 1how how does somebody know if they're satisfied with their career or not like what kind of things can they start doing or start thinking about because this hits home for me especially in the last year where i wasn't getting you know i'm not getting a fulfillment out of my career path and i've you know i've done some inner work on it i've started to realize that i've basically just been following my my father's path in in in the professional world and i've been following my world which is fine it's treated me well but ultimately i'm not fulfilled right so what's
Speaker 2something that someone can do well so the question is what somebody can do not how somebody can know
Speaker 1because it sounds like you already know yeah yeah i mean either way like some people don't even know
Speaker 2that they're so maybe it's a two-part process yeah well it all starts with this voice in inside you telling you well maybe yeah you know maybe it's not it's not it or is that it is that the path is is is is it where i was supposed to be is it where my uh five or ten year old self would be really excited about me being at my current age so it it starts usually with this thoughts in your head and if you don't have them great i mean you don't have to question everything if you're happy great but if you started having these thoughts then i can tell you they're not going to go away so you can a lot of people are afraid to to give them space because they think oh my god if i start entertaining those thoughts i have to change so much i worked so hard to achieve this all and now am i supposed to start from scratch and you know all these things but the thing is that it's not going to go away and it's not something to like uh attack you or or damage your life if these thoughts appear it means that there is an opportunity for you to live a better life to live out of even more empowered version of yourself if you are ready to face it and so people face it at different times but when you are ready to face it then the first step is to understand who you have become as a result of your past experiences i worked a lot with people who are international who change lots of countries cultures companies roles and so those are very adaptive people and they they really learn how to you know adapt to this changing environments however what often happens is that they kind of lose their who's the feeling of who they are in the process they they no longer understand what's theirs and what's not what they like or what they're expected to be to to like um and so the first step that i do normally when i work with people is to help them reconnect with themselves so answer the questions you know uh what's really important to me how do i understand that that's important to me um what's the difference between something that i think that's important and i and i feel that it's actually important um what what is um what is my purpose why am i waking up in the morning so things like that so that's the first step and then once you realize okay this is who i am and that's like you it doesn't it doesn't matter whether it's enough or not enough what's important is that that's how it is right once you have this baseline then you can think okay what who do i want to become so you take a timeline and you start basically you unleash your inner dreamer or inner child and you start thinking okay who am i who do i want to be you know and some people actually think that in order to be someone you first need to have something or or you know um or do something uh in order to be some let's say if i want to be rich i need to have i don't know properties or yachts but it's actually the other way around if you want to have properties or yachts you have to be rich in your mind first even before it's sort of materialized because it's it's it's a part of the mindset so this is the work that brings you to think okay if i want to become this different version of myself how does this different version of myself think about things uh and it must be different because if you keep doing what you've always been doing you would be getting the same results that you've always been getting and so that is the second part of the work okay who do i want to become and then the third part of the work is months mindset it's empowering from point a to point b how do i get there what inner challenges do i need to overcome how do i work with my inner critic or in a perfectionist or if i tend to procrastinate what's driving it and etc etc and those things are different for different people so it's it's a process that's why it's um it's always easier to do it with an external person like a coach because it helps you expand your mind because it helps you get out of your usual thinking patterns it helps you to see what's really going on it acts like a mirror as opposed to when you're just thinking about it yourself and you you you just you have lots of blinds but we all do um i also have coaches because you know i realize that i have blind spots as we all do and so it's important to expand your thinking in order to really move
Speaker 1forward yeah i i couldn't agree more it's this idea of like altering your perception you know getting another perspective on your situation because i'm one perspective the minute i start incorporating somebody else into the process that's now two perspectives you know and the more people i kind of bounce things off of that's more perspectives and then i can kind of bring all those ideas of responses together and make an informed decision that way you know what the what the yeah go ahead sorry uh i just wanted to say
Speaker 2that uh having perspectives of course is very very beneficial but specifically when you work with a coach a coach is not supposed to tell you what to do the coach is supposed to ask you the questions that you wouldn't ask yourself otherwise so that certain answers come out for you that you haven't thought about before because essentially the role of a coach is to empower you to solve your own problems not to solve the problems for you yeah yeah i i that's a great point and you
Speaker 1know that that's like i was gonna ask the question but that you pretty much nailed it it's like what does a good coach look like you know and a good coach to me has to wear multiple hats they have to be a cheerleader they have to be you know hard sometimes and tell you the hard truth but at the end of the day ultimately it's not them you know go here take left make a foot step here it's it's not that because you and i both know someone you know especially somebody that deals with control issues and addiction we don't respond well to tell you know to this kind of dictator dictator behavior where it's like i don't take direction well you know i take suggestions better and i take questions a lot better well why are you thinking this way why don't you want to go to this this party later and you know my partner does a great job of that i always say this but you know she does a great job of kind of helping me make an informed decision rather than telling me what to do and i think that that challenges me in a way that helps me to grow you know yeah
Speaker 2and that's back to the point of having the ceo in your in your head if there is someone who is always playing the ceo and decides what to do then you will never grow your own ceo in your head
Speaker 1right yeah what does recovery look like to you today natalia
Speaker 2recovery i always thought that when i will stop having the binging episodes i would be like in belize all the time uh same yeah yeah and to be honest i mean if i think about how how um how bad it all was i am in bliss you know but the thing is that it's normal life it's a daily work on your thoughts so it's um it's a right food intake for me um i still have thoughts when i'm in a relationship with people and when i approach the point in my meal when i feel like i'm full but i still have appetite or it's tasty and you know it's like it's almost like a critical like little signalization starts coming off like look you are at the you know critical point of of being full so if before when i was more in a child mode i was like whatever i don't want rules i do it's my life i do what i want so i'll just keep eating whatever happens now i understand that this voice is telling me to that i'm approaching my my limit if i keep doing that i am likely to be unhappy with myself do i want that not really and so i stop and as you've done it multiple times it it might feel uncomfortable for five seconds but then it's it's bearable so you realize that you can handle that you realize that this minor discomfort you're okay to handle for the sake of not having a bigger discomfort if you are full and then also very very important point that i realize even though you know i've been a woman for over 30 years of my life i i actually just recently discovered that i have a very very big discomfort discovered how different my natural body needs depending on the stage of the cycle. So, you know, in the second stage of the cycle, for instance, my appetite increases and I want to have more like fatty foods, more like something, something oily and stuff like that. And my appetite increases. What I didn't know is that that's normal and that metabolic rate also increases. And so when I had my episodes, I used to think, oh my God, I, I'm, you know, I, I always want to eat and it was very difficult to bottle. And instead of giving my body what it needs as in, you know, healthy fats, I would be giving it junk food because I would be punishing myself, you know? And so in those periods, I was the most unstable. Back in the years when I had episodes, now I know that, yes, I'm eating more when I'm in the second stage of my cycle, but surprisingly in the first stage of my cycle, my appetite drops and I am just amazed at how body self-regulates. So I think it's just literally A, managing your thoughts, B, being in the moment and not stepping into past remuneration of like, oh, like, you know, I had this eating disorder in the past, you know, what would prevent me to have it in the future or not stepping too much in the future. It's like, oh, maybe it's uncomfortable now, but if I, if I keep doing that, maybe it will be even more comfortable. And then, so you don't think about the future. You focus on the moment. And often you realize that discomfort is just a very short leave. So being in the moment, managing your thoughts, and yeah, and basically trying to be adult in, in every area of my life, which takes focus out of, of the body thing and food thing and trains you to, to A, don't expect perfection, not expect perfection from yourself. B, notice your strengths and enjoy what you can do and basically be okay with the fact that you have, you know, both sides of the coin. You have certain limitations and you have certain strengths. And as long as you're okay with that, then you don't have to punish yourself because the thing is that everybody does. It's a human nature. So I think it just boils down to accepting the human nature. And I think it's a human nature in yourself and learning how to live with that.
Speaker 1Yeah. Yeah. I agree. There's so many, there's so many parallels between, you know, substance use disorder and this food addiction that, that is pretty prevalent. And I think it's prevalent in a lot of places, you know, body dysmorphia comes into it. And I mentioned at the beginning that I've struggled with body dysmorphia. I still do to some degree, but I'm a lot better at it now. I'm a lot better at managing those thoughts and asking myself questions, you know, what is this about? And I've ultimately found that, you know, there's this, there's this hole inside of me that is not enough, like we said, and, and I'm trying to fill it with whatever outside things, you know, come into play. Are there like, what are some of the common themes
Speaker 2that you see with, with successful people in, in recovery? Well, they stop chasing achievement, and they start enjoying the process. I love that. When you chase achievement all the time, you just leave in your to-do list, you always unhappy and, and you miss life, essentially. All the thoughts that you're not enough, all those circles, you miss the moment because you're there, you're not here. So once you start enjoying the process, asking yourself how it feels right now in this very moment, what am I doing? If it doesn't feel well, like, why am I doing that? Right? And then you start notice that life is so much more than achievement or feeling that void. Life already is, you know, what is, and it's, it's, it's wonderful. I mean, it's, it, I'm getting a little bit esoteric here, but that's essentially, um, you know, kind of spiritual element to that. Yeah. Yeah. That maybe there's another way
Speaker 1to do things, you know, maybe my way is not the only way that's kind of the spiritual side for me, you know? Yeah. It, it's, it reminds me of this kind of notion where once I have this, I'll be happy. Once I have two, one car, my favorite car, I'll be happy. Now I have the car. It's like, once I have the boat, I'll be happy. And it never ends. Right. It's this, like, you know, it's kind of like this, this ladder analogy that I heard one time where it's like, there's an empty bag on the top of the ladder and every CEO climbs that ladder, gets to the bag and finds out that it's empty. There's nothing in the bag. Yeah. And he, you know, the next guy, the rookie CEO, the, the guy that's just coming up, he's talking to the, the veteran, the guy that's been there before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. the guy the veteran is telling him hey there's nothing in the bag man don't you know it's not worth it and like 10 out of 10 times that young guy or girl needs to go and we'll do it anyways despite all the warnings we'll need to go climb the ladder and find out for him or herself that there's nothing in the bag you know there's this there's nothing on the other side right yeah i
Speaker 2love this analogy i i feel like when you have these thoughts when i do that that will make me happy it's a it's an intellectual thought right it's not it has nothing with the feeling you think that it will make you happy but how does it feel to be happy like can you actually imagine that you feel happy right now can you imagine let's do an exercise propel fitness water
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Speaker 4or sam who never goes anywhere without her roommate knowing exactly where she is some journeys are meant to be shared share your ride in real time with share my trip on uber one more way uber is putting safety at every turn learn more on the uber app
Speaker 1yeah yeah i think i think it's changed a lot it's funny because my brain starts to automatically and this is you know this is because i'm working a recovery program but my brain starts to go for all the little things you know i woke up this morning i have coffee i have a bed to sleep in um i have a beautiful partner you know i have family i was out for dinner last night with with one of my uncles who were we've become closer because as a result of my relapse and and and addiction you know he's he's supporting me more and yeah it's it's a beautiful thing you know i'm not thinking about all the stuff that i have or the computer or or the the job or anything like that my mind immediately goes to you know i think back to all the moments i've if i if you were asked if you were to ask me remember a moment you were last happy i think about places you know i think about my my the cottage that we have that is on the lake and i think about the vacations that i've
Speaker 2been on in europe um that's how you see so you see you think a lot you try to recall images of the images or events yes but what if you try to focus on the body sensations like if you felt very very happy right now for whatever reason what would you feel in your body how would you know that you know that you're happy
Speaker 1i wanna my first my first answer to that is excited this and when i say excited it's hard for me to put into words it's almost like an anxious anxious like feeling yeah yeah there's like this anxiety yeah i love that because the thing is
Speaker 2that physiological response to anxiety or excitement is the same is this feeling of like for me it's this um feeling in the pit of my stomach which honestly i you know when i reframe it as excitement it's bearable but i i don't like feeling it yeah and that's and that's the reason why it's so important for me to be able to feel like i'm feeling like i'm the thing because when you only associate with happiness this almost anxiety then you almost don't want to feel happy in the moment and you feel like oh when i have this or that or that then i will be happy but you have to learn to feel that happiness now because if you don't learn how to feel it through sensations now you won't be able to feel it regardless of the events that are going to happen in the future you won't be able to feel it regardless of the events that are going to happen in the future you won't be able to feel it regardless of the events that are going to happen
Speaker 1in your life that's amazing i never i've never been told that or thought about that you know but you you nailed it on the head like i always i always i recall imagery when i have you know when i have thoughts of triggers you know and i haven't had one in you know in a bit now but when i have triggered thoughts of you know i i miss the way that i it's always like a picture in my head of that first hour of the party where i was having fun and not even an hour i would say like half an hour it's like that first little tiny window where i was enjoying the drugs and alcohol and then the 99 of the night was just hell you know i it was absolute hell and but my brain will grab on to that one memory that quick you know enjoyment feeling and it's not a body sensation at all it's like this i just picture the surrounding area of of when i was happy what what so what does happiness feel like to you you mentioned a pit in your stomach but
Speaker 2what what can you describe that no uh so yeah so pete in my stomach is not happiness that's excitement and i don't like to associate with happiness for that same reason because it is too similar to anxiety um i guess my happiness is like i have to you see i have to do an exhale to feel it in my body that means that i'm not contracting my body anywhere like it's just relaxed everywhere like all goes freely and i am fully focusing on my sensations rather than any thoughts because thoughts often give me anxiety and so if i am able to switch off the thoughts because in the end of the day i'm thinking the thoughts so you know i can do that and you can do it with practice in meditation or just sitting with that you realize that you know this feeling i don't know uh if if anybody here ever done ecstasy uh when you know when you're on yeah that was manna's joke um when you're on this wave um of like it's coming up you know your thoughts just leave your head and you feel this relaxation your breath goes you know flows freely you smile you you are not distracted by anxious thoughts you fully present you're fully present exactly so that's the happiness but you don't need ecstasy to feel that um and so focusing like switching back like if you feel anxious or if you feel any different think any self-deprecating deprecating thoughts that's the sign that you're too much in your thoughts your mind is too much in your thoughts you're not going to be able to do that because your mind is riding you so that's your sign to switch into the body and for me what works is is starting to breathe like slowly like noticing any contraction and and just releasing it and that puts me in the state of relaxation and like you know i used to be afraid of public speaking and podcasting is public speaking for me but right now i don't have any any anxiety whatsoever because i just allow my breath to flow so being in the present moment and being in your body that's that's the only way out yeah and that
Speaker 1takes practice right it's it's it's not easy it's simple but it's not easy a lot like this recovery program that i work i was always taught and told that it's simple not easy and we like to over complicate it and sometimes it's just meditating and sitting with your thoughts but i find that meditation gets easier at the end of the day because it's not easy it's not easy it's not after i practice it more and it doesn't have to be a 20 minute you know on a pillow every morning i was taught that you know it can start with three breaths in the morning but to your point i'm focusing on my breaths not what i have to do today exactly exactly and and
Speaker 2at least that was the case with me when i was when i was trying to focus on my breasts i was like okay i'm focusing on my breasts now how long do i need to do it it's annoying like i could have done so many other things with that yeah so that's that's your mind speaking try to find something that feels nice in the body like for me actually one of the things uh that helps me was uh was stretching you know like when you stretch you naturally want to breathe deeply because you just want to release also what helps me personally is talking to yourself during that stretching moment it's like it's safe you know like this safety feeling because essentially if we are not flexible that means that our body is too controlled and so in order to make it more flexible you need to release this contraction you need to breathe into the stretch you need to tell yourself that it's safe to stretch and this phrase i am safe does wonders in stretching and beyond it's funny you bring that up because my wife
Speaker 1stretches every morning and she loves it and she's been trying to get me to do it for for a while now and i just haven't gotten into it so maybe i'll revisit that today i appreciate that okay Natalia if you had you know there's a woman or a man or a person out there that's struggling with the the relationship with food or they're they have some kind of eating disorder or they're food to to ultimately feel some sort of way what do you say to that person right now
Speaker 2i would say that you are not alone and this is your body's way to show you that a change is needed for you to step in into a more empowered version of yourself and it's just your path everybody has something to overcome some sort of crisis in order to step up and that's your opportunity and it's time you know and and if you're ready then you can choose to do something about it and and if it's not now it's okay but you can always make this choice and this present moment is basically you know all you have and if you don't make it now again that's fine you can always make it later but if you make it then be ready to experience a different part of life and if you need support you can you can find the support that works for you if you feel like you would like to speak to me i'm happy to but i'm really excited for what life is going to have for you to be honest
Speaker 1that's beautiful one thing that recovery has given me uh you know plain and simple everyday full stop is freedom right this freedom that i have i can go anywhere i want i can do anything i want if i'm willing to pay the consequences i'm not obsessed with the only answer is to use or drink today and that in and of itself is a beautiful thing you know yeah yeah where can people find you natalia people can find me on
Speaker 2linkedin it's natalia for michenko and instagram it's nati underscore for michenko or my email which is natalia at natalia for michenko dot com beautiful and i'll i'll link that all on the show notes
Speaker 1thank you yeah i appreciate you natalia that was a great conversation i had a great time i learned a lot today like i i fully i'm i'm you know amazed with what i keep learning while i'm doing this so i appreciate you i appreciate the work that you do you and your team and it was a great conversation until next time thank you so much thank you so much anthony and thank you for
Speaker 2bringing awareness about such a sensitive topic i really really appreciate what you're doing for listening please help us grow the
Speaker 6channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone
Speaker 4on any journey using uber it helps to know you're getting into the right car pin verification adds an extra step to make sure your ride is your ride before the trip begins your app gives you a unique pin just tell it to your driver and they'll enter it in their app
Speaker 3before the ride can start hey what's your pin two five three eight that way you know you're in the
Speaker 4right car taking the right trip and your driver knows you're the right passenger make sure your ride is your ride with pin verification from uber one more way uber is putting safety at every turn learn more on the uber app close your eyes exhale feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're
Speaker 5carrying today well i'm letting go of the worry that i wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class i got them delivered free from 1-800-CONTACTS oh my gosh they're so fast and breathe oh sorry i almost couldn't breathe when i saw the discount they gave me on my first order oh sorry namaste visit 1-800-CONTACTS.COM today to save on your first order 1-800-CONTACTS
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