Focus On What You Can Control With Your Money

[MUSIC] Brought to you by the EveryDollar app. Start budgeting for free today. [MUSIC] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting at this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we'll be answering your questions about life and money. So give us a call at triple eight, eight, two, five, five, two, two, five. And we'll be talking relationships, money, anything and everything. >> All of it, let's do it. >> Kicking us off, we got John and Detroit's Michigan, hi, John. >> Detroit Rock City, what's up, John. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> Good. >> We're doing great, how can we help? >> Doing well. So, a little bit of backstory for you. I work in a family business doing dumpster rentals and demolitions. I've got kind of this storm cloud off in the distance. So to speak, where there's a flight chance that things might go underwater in about six months due to some outside legal issues with a separate business that my stepdad lives off of. So his lifestyle cannot be supported by what this business currently makes. The main issue I have is that I currently am a co-signer on a piece of construction equipment and I want to set myself up to make sure that I can cover that if things do kind of go underwater. >> Well, you got a six month runway here, so what's keeping you from screaming and yelling and running right into the middle of this problem? >> Well, I think the main thing is that for now, things are still good, so I don't want to necessarily jump in and start forking over money for something that at the moment is still being paid, if you will. >> I get that. I'm trying to get to either, and I'm saying this with a smile on my face, right? So I'm not trying to be ugly. Either you don't like this business or you don't like doing business with this person and in a somewhat anxious, maybe over dramatic, over like any of our businesses could have problems in six months, or you actually have a problem right now, you just might not have to, you might be able to put it off for six months. You get what I'm saying? >> Right. Yeah, I do. I think I don't necessarily have any problems working with him. I think co-signing was a mistake. I'm kind of a newer listener, so I probably wouldn't have done that if I could go back, but to kind of give you an idea of what the numbers look like. >> My stepdad's lifestyle is easily something that's, you know, in the half million dollar a year territory. And this business in terms of profit, year-to-date has only generated $200,000 in profit. >> But those are his personal expenses. What does that have to do with the business? >> The business that he is in the legal dispute with is what he pulls his income from. So if that disappears, his only income would have to come out of the profit of this existing business. >> Yeah, which will be $200,000, and is that after you're paid? >> That's after I'm paid, yeah. >> Okay. So does he, why is he not calling the show being like, wow, my income is about to go to $200, $200. It's going to be his issue, John, but you think he's going to take, you think he's going to dip into your current business so much possibly even going to debt to keep up his lifestyle and you're scared for your business? >> No, so they're both his businesses, I co-signed on $100,000. >> I know, but I'm saying, why do you think he's not going to keep up the payment on the things that you co-signed? Do you think that, like what makes you think your business is going to fail? Because he'll just have to adjust his lifestyle or you don't think he will. >> I think it's more of a, I'm not sure if he would end up adjusting his lifestyle. I don't know if that's something that- >> So what would end up happening? So say he doesn't adjust his lifestyle than what's your fear, that he doesn't have an income and can't pay on the things that you co-signed, is that the ultimate? >> My ultimate thing that I'm just trying to prepare for is what happens at me as the co-signer I end up getting stuck with the law. >> Okay, so essentially all I'm worried about. >> Okay, there you go. So let's live in that world, which is- >> How much is it? >> You co-signed on something. >> Yeah. >> How much is you co-signed? >> The original loan amount was $84, and then as of right now it is about 13 months in with about $60,000 left. >> $60,000, okay, and how were you financially, John? >> So right now, I'm on baby steps three, although I guess, but you know the more I talk about it, I wonder if I'm still on baby step two now that we're having this conversation. >> It's okay. >> I've got about $6,000 in liquid cash, and then I've got a Roth IRA for about 12, and that's pretty much what I've got in terms of cash at the moment. >> Yeah, and how much is the payment per month on the equipment you co-signed? >> It's about $17.50. >> Okay, and how much could you, I mean, if it got down to it, and he's not able to pay his portion or his payment on this loan, then yes, it does go to you. And so your plan then is what? I mean, that's why you called to see what to do with that $17.50? >> Right, so essentially in six months' time, the loan would have an estimated balance of about $49,000, and it's just kind of looking to prepare for that, and you know, kind of a worst case eventuality, not necessarily that I'm worried about at this time, but just so. >> What would the piece of equipment be worth in six months? >> I would say probably around 30 to 35 would be my best guess. >> So the nightmare scenario is that you're out 14 grand, right? You sell this thing. >> And you have to come up to 14 grand. You have six of it. You have six months from now, so you can save up, and you're building an emergency fund anyway. Right? >> Yeah. >> This seems like the most stress-free approach. >> Yeah, because I mean, at the end of the day, if you lost this equipment, would it affect your business drastically? >> It really, it wouldn't affect me really hardly at all, and more of just an employee who kind of got in the- >> It's stuck with the- >> Bed with a co-sign, so does the big- >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> No, totally. So I think you plan for the worst, which would be that he stops paying, and then you would be on the hook for it, so then you would have to come forward and sell, sell the assets to make good for the loan, and then you'll have the difference by then, because if you save, you know, two grand for the next seven months, three grand, right? You'll be fine to have the difference. So that's probably what I would plan for, but also, I'll say this, John, yeah, this is the stress of co-signing, is that the person needs a co-signer, because the bank is not trusting fully that they're going to have the amount, that they're going to be able to pay it. And so, I'll say that you're feeling the stress of why we tell people not to co-sign, and the reality of what could happen. But I also wonder, John, if it may not even come to that reality in six months, if the father-in-law, however the lawsuit pans out for his other business, then it comes to this other, you know, $200,000 lifestyle change that he'll have to make, and hopefully he makes the payment on this equipment for the other business he owns. That's what a rational person would do, but I'm not sure how roughly he is. Yeah, projecting out six months of a future calamity and dragging it back to right now and trying to solve it in the present. I mean, that's the definition of anxiety, right? And Rachel, you know me. I struggled with this more than anybody on the planet, right? What happens if A, I, that's my whole world. So, this is, to pop them off a cliff. This is a pot top of the kettle here, bro. But like what you can solve right now is, all right, there's a potential that one day I'm going to be on the hook for the sale of this thing minus the difference. And if I have that in my emergency fund, I can breathe. And so I would, I, if I'm in your seat right now, A, I would start looking for a new job because I wouldn't work with somebody that I believe is so untrustworthy that they may nuke everything because they have to adjust their lifestyle. The second thing is I would work really hard to get that money in an emergency fund and then I would breathe and then get on about my life. Yeah, planning for it is wise, but sitting and ringing your hands about something that hasn't happened yet, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go there emotionally, but planning for something that could, I mean, there's, there's wisdom in that. And again, that is why co-signing you guys has never, never a good idea. If you're shopping online and these days, everybody does. Data brokers are out there right now buying and selling your personal information. Your phone number, your home address, your email, without your knowledge or consent. And that puts you at risk for spam calls, scam texts, and fraud. Combined with AI, those scams are getting more sophisticated every day. And trying to get it under control yourself is basically impossible unless you have delete me. Delete me goes to hundreds of these creepy data broker sites, find your info and removes it and you never have to lift a finger. Plus they keep monitoring for it and removing it if and when it pops up again. You don't have to remove your own info every time it pops up, like some unwindable game of whack-a-mole. I personally use and love delete me and my scammy texts and spammy calls have gone way down. Trust delete me to smack down data brokers and protect your personal info so the game of whack-a-mole can finally stop. Go to joindeleteme.com/ramz and you'll get 20% off an annual plan. That's join J-O-I-N. Delete. Meet me dot com slash Ramsey or click the link in the description. Next up we have Angela in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Angela. Welcome to the show. Hi there. Thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? So I am calling on behalf of my parents. There are seven kids in my family and we are trying to help get my parents set up for retirement and get them in a good position. Because there are seven kids, it's kind of tricky. My parents don't own a lot of assets. They only own their home outright and their vehicles. They do have about $50,000 in debt and that's all on credit cards. Some of it is medical debt. Some of it is mismanagement of spending and lack of income. My dad is 77. My mom is 72 and they do get social security, but they don't bring in very much income because my dad is older. He has worked his whole life and he still works a little bit, but business has been pretty slow for him and so paying off their debt is a struggle at the moment. And then medical expenses start to creep up. And so our kids were trying to figure out how to support them in a way that doesn't cause division among the siblings and help my parents. And just not really knowing what to do. They don't have a will. Their home is not in a trust or in a will. And they are needing money for, you know, their daily costs of living as well as paying off that roughly 50,000 in debt. And with my dad's lack of income at the moment, some of the kids are struggling with, do we support them financially? Do we give them each a fixed amount per month? Should we force them to get the money out of their own home in the form of reverse mortgage? So let me, let me jump in here, Angela. Let me ask you this one question. This is a question I ask everybody in the situation. Are your parents even open to help? Yes, they are. I would say mostly my dad is, my mom is too, but her idea of help is a little bit different. My dad is very open to all ideas. And my mom is kind of like, I just want you all, you kids to give us to take care of monthly money. And she's not open to change the house. A reverse mortgage at all. Don't do reverse mortgage. Please don't do that. Okay. Are you married? I am. Okay. Here's Rachel pushback. If you think I'm out of line here, I think the most important thing like in order of steps is for you and your spouse to determine what y'all's values are. What dollar amount you could afford to give a one time gift or a like what app like y'all decide in your home regardless of the siblings getting seven people. I mean, just turn the news on. You can get seven people to agree on on on whether four plus four is eight. Right. And so that's going to be a chore in and of itself. If there's one, the best way I've ever seen it done was my uncle Jim. There was there's four siblings. My dad to two older brothers and a younger sister. And my oldest uncle called a meeting and said, here's how this is going to go. And all four siblings were united and it was awesome. I've heard of that happening one time. And that was in my family. Other than that, you're going to have somebody who wants to just never say no to them. You're going to have somebody that wants to teach them a lesson and you're going to have two people who are like, well, when we were kids, they never. And so I think the best path for you and to not make yourself insane is to say, here's what we can do. And then pass that along to the siblings and either you take the lead and move forward or you just say, here's what we're going to do independent of the rest of y'all and you'll everybody do the best you can or whatever. Yeah. What's your what's your gut on that, Angela, which is like, what do you think? Like what do you guys financially? Are you in a spot to even have the conversation of giving them money each month? And or do you even feel the need to because you know what I mean? Like everyone has a different level of what giving looks like and people's take on enabling a situation versus help right. I mean, everyone kind of has a different span on how they think what what is your guide. I'm just curious. Yeah. Those are fantastic questions. And that's definitely something that all of us have already been discussing. And this has kind of been two or three years in discussion. And there's always division. So then the conversation gets dropped. And then I bring it up again. And then it gets dropped and I bring it up again. So for me and my husband, we had just told my parents, we are going to start giving you guys $200 a month. And we started that last month September, September 1st. And then we said, for the next, let's say six months to a year, we are going to start doing that. And if all seven siblings can also do that, you know, we'll help my parents out a little bit. And they're kind of became some division where some kids said, I don't have any money to give. And then some kids said, well, I already gave my parents money in the form of $500 a few years ago. So why should I give monthly? Then there's other other siblings and including spouses, because now the spouse, all of us are married, less one. And spouses feel like, well, why don't your parents just sell their home? Well, why don't your parents just sell their vehicle? Why don't your parents? Anyway, listen, Angela, if they get in this mess themselves, Angela, you trying to solve six other six other family units, like 12 people. Like yeah, they're in their baggage and their issues. Yeah, it's just a complete and utter distraction from you having peace inside your own marriage. You having peace inside your own financial world and your relationship with your parents. And y'all have decided y'all made a y'all said 200 bucks. I would let that stand and do what y'all think is right in which I want to do. And if enough, you know, if there's one sibling that wants to be loud about their opinion on selling their house, they can call the parents to be like this is what you this is what you got to do. Yeah, but you can't walk around and own it all, even if you think, okay, ultimately they're going to have to sell their house. We know how this ends are going to move in with one of us because we know how this ends, right? And you asked an important question at the end, how do I do all this without division? You can't. You can just face the division that you know is coming, whether it's your mom mad at you that she has to change her lifestyle in her 70s based on how she lived the last 50 years. Based on your siblings getting mad or you're not helping enough for helping too much. The only thing you can do is face this division as a person with dignity and respect and honor. And with your own self integrity, right? There's something about when you are going into any level of, I think, I don't know, conflicts the right word, but you're going into to help someone or to have a hard conversation like whatever that is to know like you're doing it. Yes, it's going to help them obviously, but it's like this is where I feel aligned within myself. And this is what I know financially is okay for my family. This feels right for me. And you act on that, right? It's like this self integrity and you do it for you. And it's not so that the hope that my other siblings are also going to pitch in 200 or the hope that mom and dad are going to change once they like have this. That's right. That's right. It is out of just what you and your husband say, this is what we can do. And this is what we feel good about doing too. It doesn't feel icky or it doesn't feel cheap. Like, maybe we could give a lot more. But we want to teach them a lesson. Right? Like, there's it is just pure. This is it. And this is what we feel good about. And I think that that's. That's really all you such an important part. I know, which is so difficult. And I feel like we get more and more of these calls of grown children looking to the parents generation. I think we're going to get more and more and more. I don't know what to do. Yes. And but that self integrity piece, which it sounds like you have, Angela. I feel like you you guys have had good discussions within you and your husband. And you got to an amount on your own like all of it. But I think that the relational dynamic. It does weigh when it's siblings and there's not peace and there's not unity. Like, that's hard. But to John's point, like, it's it's virtually impossible to get 14 people to agree on something. [Music] If you want to free up margin in your budget, one of the first things you should do is take a hard look at your monthly bills. Because every dollar you overpay is another dollar you don't have for reaching your financial goals. And overpaying for your phone bill, well that makes zero sense. And it's why I recommend Boost Mobile. Their unlimited plan is just $25 a month forever. No contracts, no hidden fees, no surprise price hikes. If you already have a phone you love, you can keep it and keep your number when you switch. And if you're skeptical, Boost Mobile offers a 30-day money back guarantee so you can try it risk-free. 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And so, whether you are feeling stuck financially and you just don't know your next move or maybe you're doing great in your thriving, but you still want to be intentional because regardless of where you are on the baby steps, knowing where your money's going is so so important. So, make sure you check out every dollar you can download it for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right. We have Raquel in Washington, D.C. up next. Hi. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help? >> Okay. So, my question is, if we know we aren't saying in the house we're in currently, do we focus on paying it all or do we focus on investing the money towards their house instead of the next house? >> When do you guys plan on moving? >> So, I think it will vary. I think if we pay this house all, we will probably stay a few years longer, maybe like six to seven years, but if we're going to pay off now, then I think if we aren't going to pay it off maybe about four years, we will stay. >> What's the impetus for the move? >> So, we don't have kids now, so we kind of want to be in a better area when we have kids and then just more rooms, bigger space. >> Gotcha. >> Mm-hmm. >> Yeah, I like the idea always, Raquel, because you guys don't have any consumer debt or you completely debt free, but the house? >> Yeah. >> Nice. >> So great. And how much do you guys make a year? >> 215. >> Okay. And how much is left on the mortgage? >> 350. >> Very nice. Okay. So, if you guys did pay it off and kind of work towards that, have you looked at a timeline of how long that would take you? >> So, we think if you take us about three years max to pay it off. >> Wow. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I would do that in a heartbeat because what that force is, you don't lose that money, right? It's just equity. Now, will it grow slower in real estate than how the market's performed? >> Maybe. >> Maybe, but there's just, there's something not only having the peace of having it paid off home where you don't have to worry about it, but again, it's kind of this force savings account, if you will, because if you're, sometimes we're like, okay, yeah, I'm going to invest the difference instead of paying off my mortgage, but honestly, what it sometimes comes up is a great trip, you know, once in a lifetime thing over here to do or to, let's upgrade and do this instead of that, like, instead of investing, let's do some renovations or instead of investing, let's buy a new car, right, like that money easily can be swayed in other directions, but when it is focused on just one thing, especially your house, knowing that it's locked in, and equity, if you will, as you're paying down that mortgage, it's just that force savings account, which it always feels like a safe plan, because you're not really in the equation when that happens, and when we get in the equation sometimes, sometimes we can, we can go off, off track, if you will. >> And it's easy to look out four years and say, that's a good point to me. >> We're going to have, let me just tell you from my personal life, when my wife and I started, we're going to start having kids, it didn't happen for three, almost four years. In that time, I think we moved two different jobs, had multiple different places where we lived, and there was a season, there was over a year when we lived in a 900 square foot apartment with a two-year-old, and that's, we still look back as one of the coolest experiences we ever had, and there was times we lived in a tiny, tiny, little rent house, maybe 900, it was a little video place, we loved it, and so all that to say is, if you put that project out in four years, who knows what's going to happen to your jobs, who knows what's going to happen to the market, who knows what's going to happen to any number of things, but the one thing nobody will be able to take away from you is a paid-off house. >> Yeah, that's true. >> And so if you're thinking of control to controllables now, who knows what will happen in three years, five years, seven years, whoever, but I know I've got this thing taken care of here, and so I like that just from a sense of peace, and if you all do end up having kids, amazing great, I know you want bigger bedrooms and this and a different kitchen, all that, also that's awesome, but man, in a paid-for house where there's no family stress, your kids are going to thrive, like kids have for centuries, and without each having their own bathroom and their own, I don't know, kitchenette in each room or whatever, their own hella pad for their helicopter to land or whatever, like I love, love, love that idea. If you told me you were going to move in 18 months, because one of you always going to be changing jobs or something, I would tell you to save your money. >> Yeah, Amber, and we're keeled too, you know, if you guys decide to move later down, the money's not lost, it's just equity that's going to be put into another home as well, you know, and I'm going to make sure though you guys are investing in retirement too, right, as part of this. >> Okay, yeah, so we're currently, we're meeting this week to make sure we have everything allowed with the smart investor for us. >> Oh, great. >> Yeah, because we are seeing all the money that we're just sitting on, so we're trying to meet with the smart investor for this week to make sure we are actually getting our money out there in the market. And that's also be part of the price because we feel like we haven't done it as much, you know, so far. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So we're like, okay, well, should we be investing instead? >> Yeah, so that way we can do it at the same time, obviously, but it would just be, you know, a little less in the market. >> Yeah, and that may make you feel better because we recommend 15% of your income going into retirement. If you haven't been meeting that, it may feel like, gosh, we should, that pool of we should be putting more money in the market, may actually solve itself once you actually put, you know, an adequate amount and then anything extra throwing at the house. So you may actually get the best of both worlds after meeting with your smart investor pro because you may be investing more than you are now, which will feel great. All right, let's go to a greatie and Portland's. Hi, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. >> Thanks for having me on. >> Yes, absolutely. >> I'm currently a self-employed doing landscaping and I'm just wondering how I can reduce my federal income tax. >> How to reduce your federal income tax? >> Just my federal tax, sorry. >> Just your taxes? Well, yeah, I mean, you pay, obviously, income tax, self-employment tax, I mean, they're all pretty based amounts. I mean, you can do some write-offs in small business, but you do want to make sure those are legitimate. So if you ever get audited, it doesn't look sketchy. >> What's your bigger question? Are you just, how old are you? >> I'm 19. >> Okay, so you're realizing the world sucks. >> Okay. >> That's what you're realizing. >> I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Listen, brother, if you were here, I would just stop talking and I would give you a humongous hug and say, welcome to it, man. >> Yeah. >> Listen, last year I got at the end of the year, I looked at all the taxes I had paid and I called a friend and I said, I have to tell one person how much taxes I wrote last year and I told him and he, it was a long silent pause and he goes, man, that sucks. Like, and there's, I know that you probably are on Instagram a TikTok about all these super hacks and whatever. There is some of that stuff. You can depreciate your lawn mowers and stuff like that, but it's not going to be what you think it is in terms of there's not some secret thing that you can do to hide federal money. >> Are you doing it? >> Are you doing it? >> I do want to make sure you're, are you doing quarterly payments with your business? >> I just started doing quarterly payments. >> Good, okay, that's where the most small businesses are starting out and mess up. Okay, that's great. How much money did you make last year in it in the business? >> Last year wasn't a great year, probably 60,000 this year I'm going to double that. It's not more. >> Way to go, man. >> Well done. Do you have anyone working for you or is it just you? >> Here's to me. >> That's awesome. >> That's so great. >> You're in Portland too, which has really high state income tax. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we got it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. this year, and I'm just wondering, like, how can I try to reduce that, balding you truck this year already, new trailers, new dollars. >> Yeah, you can do some write-offs for the business itself. >> Yeah, sit down with a tax professional, go to rimdysolutions.com/tax, and you can get with a tax pro in your area that will help you with those kinds of things, because as a small business owner, you can write a lot of that stuff off, and that will help, but it's not going to help. Like, reduce the-- >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a hard reality. But honestly, great. I think one of the things to remember is, which again, if you meet with a Ramsey trusted agent, or I never go to recommend this, don't ever try to, like, skirt the system, because you got to pay your taxes, and the quarterly payments is really big for small businesses. So many people get in trouble with taxes, not trying to maliciously, it's just mismanagement. So the fact that you're on those quarterly payments, that's going to help you plan so well. So, dude, well done, one twenty and one year at a gritty, that's awesome. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. If you're working the baby steps, every major expense deserves a second look. And health care is one of the biggest expenses in most family's budgets. And that is why I recommend that you check out Christian healthcare ministries. CHM isn't insurance, it's a health cost-sharing ministry. That means members help pay one another's medical bills, and they've been serving Christian since 1981. CHM programs start at just $115 a month, and here's why that matters. If you are paying more than you need to for health care, that money could be going toward paying off debt, building your emergency fund, or reaching your next financial goal. 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We'll leave a link down below if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube so that you can check that out and apply it to your life and your money to help you get control. All right, let's go to Joe and Flint, Michigan. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the show. Hey, Rachel and John, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. Yes, absolutely. How can we help? Well, I just wanted to start off with my obligatory. Thank you. I really appreciate everything you guys do and I'm a big emotional guy. So if I start crying, just know that they're happy tears right now. Oh, yes, it's a John. Me too, brother. He's emotional too. I'll cry with you. Well, John, I'm so glad to be talking to you, especially in no fence, Rachel, but it was, you know, five years ago, I was freshly out of a toxic marriage. Single father or five kids, and I mean, I was as close to the end of the rope as I had ever done. And I saw a video of you, you know, I heard a Ramsey and whatnot, but I saw a video of you looking into the camera. And you said something like, you know, you are worth more than your bank balance or something like that. And that brought me to the program. And here I am now. But anyway, I'm glad you're here, brother. I'm glad you're here. Thank you. I appreciate that. I see the shining city at the top of the hill. I'm probably a year and a half away from being debt-free, accept my mortgage and, you know, that that's due to you guys. But my question is, my employer, they offer a Roth 401(k) and they do an automatic contribution, not a match. And through the years, through growth and the markets and everything, that's actually logged in a few weeks ago. And I see it's actually up to about 16,000 just their contributions. Wow. I'm looking at all the different categories that I can put it in and I'm just wondering how to optimize that for the Ramsey program, you know, the four different ways you can, you know, recommend investing, you know, it shows like target growth or target retire. This year, I see, you know, mid cap, small cap, large cap. And then there's like real estate funds and all this different stuff I can put it in. And I was just wondering what would be the best way to do that. Crypto. All of it. And crypto, brother. Every dime. Every dime. That in a few Pokemon cards. Then you're covered. It's called diversifies. Should I get the some some gorilla NFTs? Correct. And if you can get your hands on a few beanie babies too, that would be dope. You would, you would, you would have all of your faces covered, yes. Naturally. I have a garage full of those. Oh, my gosh. Don't do anything that I just said. None of that. No, I do not recommend or endorse anything that came out of your mouth just about the last 30 seconds. Everything else. I trust them. Don't trust them on that. No. Yeah. When you look at it, really, the four different types of mutual funds that we look at diversifying is growth, growth and income, aggressive growth and international. So those are really the four and, and when you meet with financial planners, which I probably recommend you would, once you get to baby step four, Joe, to meet with a smart investor pro. You can go to ramsysolutions.com and find someone because you may be investing more beyond just what they, which you should be, more than just their automatic contributions to the building. Yeah. Things I've done with my dad. It's, you know, all of them. Yes. They're awesome. They're on everything I can. That's awesome. Yep. Totally. Absolutely. But yeah. Those are really the four that's buckets. We would recommend. My question to you is how, how much are they putting in when you say automatic contributions? I'm curious what, if they're doing it by percentage or? No. So it, it ends up, they put in like 70 cents per hour that you work. So it ends up being $12 to $1400 a year. Okay. But, so their actual contributions are about $5,900 over the past few years, but through, you know, the markets have actually gone up to almost 16 grand. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So, so when I would be looking at this, if I was calculating up to that 15% of your income going into retirement, I almost would treat this kind of in a way, like a pension, where we say it counts for half of whatever that they're putting in, counts half, the percentages half towards your 15%, whatever percentage. And so I almost would do that because you're, it's not your money. It's just, it's just free money, but it still is counting towards your retirement. So when you're looking at it all together, you may, yeah, I would factor that in. So I wouldn't factor in what they're putting in as just your 15%. I would be doing more on top of that as well when you get to that point of baby step four. So Joe, well done though, how incredible. So five years later, how are the kids? Oh, they're, they're great. You know, we, uh, we, it was a long, uh, tenuous divorce and, you know, we, we shut some things, we didn't necessarily mean to say, but, uh, you're humming out the other side of it. Everybody is happy, healthy, well adjusted and I bet that I couldn't be happier. Let me say this. You said at the beginning of the call, you're grateful to us and we did this. Make no mistake, brother. Rachel and I, Dave, George, Jade, we run our mouths on a microphone. You're the ones out there day in and day out grinding this thing out. Five kids, single dad, making all the breakfasts, all the lunches, all of the nighttime routines, all, do that's you pain off debt in the middle of it all of it's amazing. Hear me say, brother, I'm so proud of you, dude. Like, like I'm beaming now, like you are a shining example of a man picking up life after the storm and saying, okay, I can only control me and I'm going to head into the middle of what comes next. I'm proud of you, dude. That's awesome. Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. And I, I have to say, so I was a single dad at the time, uh, let me just clarify. I found the most amazing woman. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very married. She has the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met, she welcomed me in my five straggling tip. My friend calls him a gaggle of kids, but she welcomed us into her home and, um, um, the future is. I love it. We love it. We love a redemption story. Congratulations, dude. Amazing, Joe. Thanks for calling. All right. Let's go to Jessica in Boston. Hi, Jessica. Welcome. Hey, guys. How are you? Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So, my husband and I are 26 and 27. We've been married for four months. Uh, we don't have any debt. And our goals for the coming years are to hopefully purchase our first home in about two years and start having children in around three years. So my question is how to balance our financial plan between those two goals and how should an emergency fund change in preparation for having kids? Yeah, that's a great question. So we recommend having three to six months of expenses saved. So I think for you guys at that point, I think three months would probably be just fine. Once you get pregnant, if you feel like you want to up it a little bit to have some cushion, you can do that. But once that three month emergency fund is funded, then that's when we move on to baby step three B. And that's where you're going to be saving for a down payment for your home. So really, the order doesn't change because of the kids necessarily. The only thing that would change is changes once you get pregnant. If you're like, I kind of want some more in the emergency fund because it just would feel better. I'd rather go up to five months versus three than you can do that. But considering you guys are so young, you're not homeowners right now. I mean, a three month emergency fund is totally fine to shoot for. So that being your first goal, then second is the down payment. And then when the kids come, it's just an extra cherry on top. Is there anything else that you would consider throwing into that emergency fund calculation like daycare expenses? And we do have health insurance, but potentially any like health expenses. And I guess it makes me nervous to have really well, your idea, how much all that stuff is going to cost you know? A billion dollars. A billion. No, so daycare should become part of your monthly budget. So that would be a rhythm of your lifestyle, not as much in an emergency funds, right? So that will be something you guys will calculate. If you go back to work, that will be coming just out of your income that should not be coming out of an emergency fund. And then yes, I mean, some medical bills. I mean, I think you can, you know, I would ask depending on your insurance plan, probably out of pocket, which you guys are going to have to pay, because it's everything from your OB visits all the way to labor and delivery. And so kind of figuring out, okay, where, you know, what are the thresholds? What will insurance cover? What will it not? And if you want that money set aside for sure, that's great. Yeah, just to have it. Because technically, a baby I wouldn't say really is an emergency, because an emergency is unexpected. And you have nine months to expect it. So I hope it goes well for you guys to just kind of well done being so young. And gosh, financially just so on target. Running a business is hard enough. The tools you use to run it should make your job easier. 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You can call us at AAA825-225. All right, we have Melissa in Detroit, Michigan, up next. Hi, Melissa. Welcome to the show. Hi, you guys. How are you? Thanks for taking the call. Absolutely. How can we help? Well, my husband came to me this past week and said that my father-in-law is offering us quite a large sum of money to help us purchase a home. So we've been thinking about moving for, gosh, like probably the past five or six years. And this particular situation, the home that we're looking at is owned by a friend of my father-in-law. And they want to give us a really great price on it. But he wants to gift us my father-in-law, wants to gift us this big sum of money as like an early inheritance. Okay, so you would take it now versus when they pass? Yes. Okay. So my question is, is this something we should or shouldn't do? What kind of things should we be even thinking about? It seems awesome. I mean, I don't want to look at gift horse in the mouth. But I kind of do. I want to make sure we're thinking through this clearly. And I've never bought a home before when I moved in here, my husband already owned the home. So I'm bringing to the whole process. And I'm just wondering what should we be considering? Is this a loan or a gift? It's a gift. It's a gift. Okay. It's a screen size loan. It's a big gift. Okay. Yeah. We'll probably once we sell our own home, we'll probably give some of it back about half of it back. From the sale of our home. Why would you do that? I guess I don't know. The gift. The gift is so that it can be done without us having to have our home sold first. Then it's not a gift. So I guess he's loaning you guys 400,000 until your home sells. Yes. I guess. But he doesn't he doesn't want he's giving us the option to pay it back or not. He doesn't care. Okay. And if you don't pay it back, that's the inheritance piece that it'll just come out of your husband's portion of the inheritance. Correct. I got you. Here's what I here's what I already don't like about it is. And if your father and all sat y'all down and said, hey, I've been saving is a dream of mine to give you all 400 grand to get launched out into your new life together. And there's no strings attached. Here you go. It's a gift. And this and I was going to leave you $2 million. I'm going to leave you 1.6 now. That would I would be all about that. That'd be great. But it already feels messy to the point that if you get this $400,000 and then you sell your house and you've got a couple of hundred grand in an account. That you think I'm going to put in a college fund or we're going to buy a little bit bigger house knowing that we're going to sell this other house, etc. And there's always going to be this looming. Well, are y'all going to pay it back? Or is it going to be that it wasn't decisive enough for you? Yes. That gets so messy, so weirded out. And if your husband's like, well, we got to pay back something and dad gave us this one time. That's where I start getting real icky about it. Okay, we don't feel that pressure from him, so I don't know. So really it's just a gift. If it's a pure $400 gift and he's wealthy and he's got it, I love that. But there can't be any strings attached to it. Yeah. And then the other thing will say is sometimes people get in trouble when they get a quote unquote good deal from a home from a family friend. If that was not a home, you guys would originally purchase with this money. Don't feel pressured into a situation just because it's quote unquote a good deal. Because when you buy a home, it's the largest financial transaction you guys are going to make. And you want to love it. You want it to be yours that you picked and that you love it. Maybe you do. Maybe you guys love this house and you're getting the deal. It's the best of both worlds. But we see that a lot too. Within friends and family of like, oh, it's my grandmother's house. I can buy it for a good deal. But you wouldn't have picked it necessarily in the first place. It's just the long term implications of doing something this large of a transaction. It's something to think about too. I just want to make sure that this. Get an inspection. Do an appraisal. Do all the stuff like you would normally buy a regular house. Sure. Sure. The whole reason we're for him even wanting to help us do this. And so we can just be in the house free and clear with no payment. That's amazing. That's, that's, I mean, it's just awesome. Yeah. And the house is about 200,000 more valuable than our current home. So my husband's thinking we'll live here until the kids graduate from college, from high school. And if we want to move at that point, we can we still have this awesome asset. Yeah. Now that we didn't have before. So you're, but I'm just we're just trying to make sure we're thinking through all. There's, there's gift tax implications as well. So I would make sure within a state attorney the way the house is deeded. Like all of that is clean and clear. Because sometimes those wires can get crossed and just making sure that. Okay. That the transaction is done. With at the, at the end, it's exactly how you guys would want it done. Sure. And I want, I want y'all to be able to hold your kids. They're 13 and 10. Okay. I want your 10 year old to, and I'm making this up. I wouldn't wish us on anybody. Okay. I want your 10 year old. If, when he turns 11, if he needs some special education stuff and y'all end up having to sell this house in a year, I want that to be okay. - Yeah, okay. - I don't want you feeling imprisoned in this house because dad gave me this money to buy his buddy's house. And now this is where we have to live no matter what. And we have to start compromising on things that really matter to us because of the, if somebody's gonna give you a gift and they're gonna shake your hands and say, "Go knock your lights out." That's awesome. I love, like I would love to be able to do that for my kids. - I think that's the situation we're in. And that's why I feel like it's so good. - It's too good to be true, but I remember. Well, it's a rare thing, but honestly Melissa, like that's part of when we talk about changing your family tree and people on baby steps seven, especially people that hit that step early and they are able to invest and build wealth. Like that's the stuff without enabling your kids and all the things that people think about. But man, to set your family up so well that if you don't have a mortgage payment, Melissa, you guys invest like crazy. You build your own wealth to be able to do this for your kid. Like that's where you start to pass down and insane amount of this generational change, not just with tangible money, but also the gift and the freedom of the generosity and the peace and all of that that comes with it. It's an amazing gift. - Here's what I want you to do, Melissa. I want you to write down on a notes app on your phone, on a yellow pad, however you want to do it. Write down the questions you have. And here's a good litmus test for you. If you can sit down with your father-in-law and your mother-in-law and you'll sit across the table and you are able to say, okay, I've got seven questions. Number one, I don't want this to change our relationship 'cause I love being your daughter-in-law. Can you promise me this gift won't change our relationship? Number two, if something was to ever happen and we had to sell this home for whatever reason, would we have your blessing? Number three, right? I want y'all to go through and if you can't ask those questions then that tells me there may be strings attached to this gift. If you can ask those questions in the relationship is the most important thing and this is just an awesome thing that they're able to bless you with. Man, I'd say run screaming through that front door and cheer 'cause this is pretty awesome. (upbeat music) Okay, George, we hear from so many people that are trying to live out to the Ramsey plant, right? They're getting out of debt and everything. But the hard thing is there's not many banks out there that actually support the way we teach people to handle money. Yeah, most banks, they don't want you to win with money so they charge a bunch of nuisance fees. There's all this fine print and worst of all, they are pushing debt products at you non-stop. Yes, but the good thing is that fair winds isn't like most banks. They're not like the other guys. Yeah, they are not pushing debt and they actually want you to win with the baby steps. And so what's great too is they created the smart bundle for Ramsey fans which includes a high-yield savings account and no monthly fee checking. Which is huge because it's rare to have a checking account tied to a high-yield savings account. You can get all of that with fair winds. And for the nerds out there, you can have a 10 different high-yield savings accounts for different goals. So you got your emergency fund, the car upgrade fund, the vacation fund, the world is your oyster. So beautiful. And check out the debit card, the new one. The live like no one else debit card. Oh, that's beautiful. It's so beautiful. That's a conversation starter. It's so good. And when you swipe or you tap, every time you take it out of your wallet, you're remembering that you are living like no one else and you're being intentional with your money. I've been using fair winds for months and months now. I love their features, the app, the customer service. It is all so good and so aligned with the Ramsey Principles. Absolutely. So y'all, we both bank at fair winds and we love their commitment to Ramsey values. So check it out. You can get that smart bundle. We're going to drop a link in the description or you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsy today. That's right. That's fairwinds.org/ramsy insured by the NCUA. [MUSIC PLAYING] Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. When private student loan payments start getting away from you, it can feel like you're paying for decisions you made years ago. And Y Refi helps borrowers explore low fixed straight refinancing options and payments designed around your current situation. So visit yrefi.com/ramsy. May not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Michael in Oklahoma. Michael writes, we recently sold our home and we're trying to figure out the best place to park the $300,000 we got at closing. We don't plan to buy until we're ready to retire four years from now. Where do you recommend we place these funds to earn interest until we buy again? So kind of our rule of thumb is that four to five-year mark. If it's anything less than that, just a good high yield savings account is probably where you'd park it just to be safe for the ups and downs of the stock market versus investing. But man, that four years is right on the cusp of-- I mean, the past four years, I know we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know what's going to happen in the future. If you put three in the game in the market four years ago, it would be great. So you don't know what it's going to do. But I mean, I would say, I don't know. I think if it was four years, I think I'd be tempted to drop it in an index fund or part of it. Would you? Yeah. See, I'd be tempted to put it in the HSA. Yeah. The high yield savings account and just call it, not an HSA, not a health savings account, but a high yield savings account. High yield savings, yeah. But I have an allergy to risk that Rachel doesn't have. Yeah. Because four years, it's that four to five-year, I mean, you could go-- I run the law. Yeah, so I'd say whatever your comfort is for you to sleep well at night. Ron needs his-- I like to put it under my pillow. I was going to say that he can just see it and know it's not going anywhere, it's right here. I feel safe. I feel safe. Where I'm like, man, that four years is a long time for 300,000 and what it could do. So I would probably put someone in an index fund and then maybe some of the high yield savings and see what happens. So here's your job, Michael, from Oklahoma. Call us back in four years with whatever you decided to do. And Lord willing, Rachel hasn't fired me yet. I will still be here and we'll decide who was right. Yeah. I don't have that kind of power. All right. Let's go to Erica in Kansas City. Hi, Erica. Welcome to the show. Hi, there. Hello. How can we help? Yeah. I was wondering if you guys could help us think about how we should be investing in our home as far as renovations go. Okay. We've bought a home a couple of years ago and we're kind of redoing everything ourselves. But our bigger projects, our more expensive projects are coming up now, you know. So we can do, can we finish floors and do our paint and that's fine and that'll cost whatever it costs and windows and things. But we're getting ready to do to do our kitchen and my husband and I have different. How do you say that? We have different standards. He needs a microwave and a pizza box. That's what he needs. That's right. And I need custom cabinets and a new table. Yes. That's fair. That's fair. Well, I think it would be, I always like to know ranges of like, okay, if we were to do the kitchen, ranges of countertops, what's the cheapest you go? What's the most expensive? Where do we kind of feel comfortable landing, pick a number for fun on a sheet of paper, same with cabinets, same with flooring, same with appliances. Like go down the list of your big ticket items and like everything, you can get the cheapest of the cheap, right? Maybe get a used refrigerator or you can get a sub zero. Right. Like it's, yeah, it's, it's that range and I would go through there. Okay, just for fun, it's, you're not actually making these decisions, but you guys together be like, okay, here's the range of price. This amount in the middle would get us this and if you're like, yeah, that, that's great. I love that. Write that number down and flow, like write, go through and do all of that and just see how much that total is. And is it realistic in the time frame of saving up that amount of money for when you guys want the remodel? And if it's too big of a number, which I feel like it usually is, which sucks at its life, then you go through and adjust and be like, okay, I may not need, you know, these countertops, I could get, we could get away with these and said, right? And you can lower the price, quote unquote, on the sheet of paper a little bit there and just see, okay, does the amount of the remodel match our timeline and what we can realistically save? And that for me, I think, I think that's probably the biggest indicator. I feel like it's less of a, it's more of what we can afford, less of a value of like, oh, that's stupid. We don't need that because if you're like, listen, if you want an haircut and you guys have the money for it, do it. You're going to be living in the kitchen, but you're probably not going to be able to get the dream every single thing because that's not reality either. Yeah. I like to look at, oh, go ahead, go ahead. Oh, sorry. Um, I think for us, like, we have, we can spend the range. It's not really a matter of what we can afford. It's more of a, every time we come up to a project, um, I come to it like, okay, was that it's been money anyway? The mind will spend it, but he looked at it as a, this house is an investment if we spend over this amount that we don't know over here, we're not going to be able to get money out of our house. Okay. Yeah, he's functioning in like a resale mindset now, I would not price yourself out of the neighborhood. So yeah, I was going to say I would not do that, but I would pull. Comps number one and see like so if you have a 250,000 dollar house and you're gonna put a hundred thousand dollar kitchen, new laundry room and an extra bathroom in there and the most expensive comp in your neighborhood is 275 then you're gonna be way you'll have put way more money in that house than you'll probably get back. So there's a realistic of that but also some people, I'm not saying this is your husband, Erica, but some people are like, oh, we're not gonna do this because of the resell value. We're not gonna put in a pool and have memories for the next generation because it's not gonna resell value. It's like, oh my gosh, you just have to live sometimes. So there's a wisdom and don't price yourself out of the neighborhood, Erica. But then there's also on his end, I'm like, dude, not every decision you make is through a frame of like math and excel sheets. Sometimes if you have the money, enjoy. So I'll tell you, I just did a whole bunch of work at my house and I did have a real estate pro, a range real estate pro pool comps just to make sure I was in some ballpark. I think I said your contractor. No, yeah, no. Rachel's husband was my contractor. But and then let me tell you, I didn't look at that again. I looked at what me and my wife had decided we were gonna spend and what we wanted and that's a house I want to live in for a long time and so I wanted it how we wanted it. And so I wasn't dumb on either side of the thing but I wanted to us to have information. I want to have information and not be stupid but also it's my house that I'm going to my kids are raising. I hope my grandkids come play there one day and they may not the world may change. But I don't want to be walking up that sidewalk every every morning for the next five years thinking, man, I should, I should, especially when I had the money already in savings now. So there's a time of land we're living in too. Okay. So how do you help the husband? Listen, brother, if I don't use your degree or a psychologist on getting his mind. Okay. I'm going to get in his mind when it comes to things in the kitchen. The answer is yes. Always. That's the thing and I don't want to be sexist. I don't want to gender it. But if my wife says, I want to do this to the kitchen. I want to do this to the master bathroom. The answer to that question is always you got it. Let's figure that out. And so that's that's my clinical answer to that. Which is terrible. But also there is like a good hand. Let me say this. Okay. So I was this guy at my very first house. I was always crunching this and moving this. And what if we do this? I want to put this floor in. But I don't like this. My dog peed in the carpet. So I change it up. But I got to and I was talking to a buddy who's a banker, a close buddy of mine. And I was going through all this stuff. And then he said this one line to me, I think I was 26 years old and it changed my life. He said, dude, and this is a guy who lives, he has like his, his mattress flipping it like when he rotates his mattress in a spreadsheet, that's this guy. And he said, bro, get your wife a home. And I was like, what? And he said, do all that other stuff later. Get your wife a home. And what that changed it for me is yes, like if you're buying a rental property, you got to use the formulas. And if you're trying to ROI this thing, you don't want to be dumb and do 500,000 dollars with the renovations on a 200,000 our house. All that's true. And get a house that you both love, both love living in. And if it's nicer cabinets, get the nicer cabinets, man. It's yeah. And there's a value system to the longevity and the enjoyment of your home. America that you prioritize for you. And so there's a there is a marriage conversation to be had of a value system at which how do we compromise and get to this place that we both feel good about the home that we are creating this life. And by the way, you both need each other. I'm glad you both have each other to push and pull on this very issue. If you or someone you love is dealing with a complex health issue, navigating the health care system can feel like a full time job that you never signed up for. 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And then when it's done, you want to be able to celebrate. And so we wanted to create a place where you could do that. And so this is a week-long cruise. It is a very fantastic ship. It's actually the same ship that we were all on last year. And it's beautiful. It's so nice. My family's coming for some of it. My family's coming. Yeah, it's such a blast. It is just a wonder. Yeah, that's beautiful. Beautiful ship. And we're going to be heading to the Bahamas or not yet. Yes, to the Bahamas, Jamaica, Grand Cayman, and Cosymale. And so seven nights, Western Caribbean cruise, March 14th through the 21st. And cabins are limited. And so if you want one, if you want to come with us, it's around the spring break time. So you can even bring your family. But gosh, this is a full week. All the Ramsey personalities will be on there. And Dave and Shara and my parents will be there as well. And so it is so fun. So if you've paid off all of your debts, but the house and getting your own baby step for this cruise is for you. So all inclusive pricing starts at $2,105 per passenger. And that's all your food, entertainment, taxes, tip, cabin, all of that. And so there's a great, great thing about a ship. It's all included right there. Yes. And my favorite parts were just I'm eating with my kids and sitting down with all sorts of baby, like just good people from all over the like all over the world. And it was just fun just getting to do life with folks for a week. And there was, we have great fun, hilarious events, evening shows. We have teachings that go on a week. Everybody's doing Q and A's and it's just, it's just awesome. It's a great week. It really is. And, and the people on the ship, you won't are just like the passengers that come. It was the best. The kindest, most wonderful people, even the cruise ship staff talked about how generous it was the most generous they've ever cruise, they've ever experienced. Because people would on top of their services right at the spa or something, they would tip and say. And it was just was it was so fun truly living out this idea that you get to live like no one else. So come hang out with us for a week. And March again, you go to ramsysolutions.com/events. Book your cabin. Come hang out with us for a week. All right. Next up we are going to Allentown and talking to Shanice. Hi, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. Welcome, welcome. How can we help? Yes. So I am newly engaged. Congrats. Thank you. Thank you. We have been engaged now for a year. We actually just recently celebrated our year anniversary being engaged on Saturday. Oh, an engagement. An engagement anniversary. That's great. Man, the kids will come up with any reason to celebrate. I love it. When's the wedding? Next year. Okay, so great. So great. Yes, yes. So my fiancee, he is coming into our relationship with three kids. And I am coming into our relationship with no children. And so he for a very long time has handled finances by himself as a single dad, you know, raising his kids by himself. And of course, he does co-parenting in touch, but he's used to pretty much doing everything by himself at the kids. I, on the other hand, am trying to get us to combine our finances and begin the whole joint bank account situation. But it's been a little difficult to be honest. So I think our issue is that he, I'm not sure if he's ready to go ahead and combine our finances together. We both have our own, I guess, childhood traumas as far as finances. And for me, I've been actively working through those things the past few years, and my fiancee is realizing, oh my goodness, I have that habit. So my question is, how do we work through the bad habits together as a couple? And then how do we learn to combine finances considering the fact that, you know, this is something that's really, really new. And I think we're just trying to align financially. And they're still like, I don't know, they're just a little bit. A great question. Yeah, yeah. And it's been a little tough. Okay. Well, I, we really never recommend combining finances until you're actually married. So the fact you guys haven't yet, I think, is a good thing because there's really no legal protection. There's nothing. And if you combine everything now and you start paying on each other's stuff, and all of it gets entangled in them for some reason, if it doesn't work out, then you've, you know, you've, you've entangled your finances with this person and untangling it can be a mess. And you've made, you know, wasted some money on, you know, if you help pay off his debt as an example. So keeping everything separate until you are married. So that would be the conversation I would work towards with him is when we, when we get married, what are then the hurdles at that points that we have to, that we have to jump over really to make this transition the easiest. So I'm assuming it's going to be the same issues that you're dealing with today. They're probably not going to change unless he does some work and you guys figure out some new patterns. So, so today, what causes him hesitation? Because, because of his bad habits? I think it's bad habits. And what does bad habits mean? Is that like gambling or is that spending too much? Is that like, what does that mean? I'm a saver. Okay. So I, for instance, I'm like, no, but we should save this weekend not eat out. I will cook and save, you know, on, you know, that, that expense. And he's like, no, let's go out to eat. Or he's like a constantly planning like we're, we're at what's the next trip that we can do? And I'm like, no, we're not going to do a trip because right now we should be saving, you know, she sounds like my marriage is at the end of the film. And you're one, you're one step. So here's the thing. I think a good exercise for both of you. One, we'll send you the financial peace university, the digital course. And y'all can sit down and watch. I think there's seven or eight videos. Y'all can watch them together. And here's what it will do. A, it will give you a philosophy. And it will give you like an ironclad plan. And what I love, especially for engaged couples to watch this is it will, it will definitely invoke some big time questions between the two of you. And if he, if one of y'all says, I'm not doing that, well, then that's like a pause the video. And that's an important thing for y'all to talk about. It's different when somebody says, I would love to do that. I don't even know where to start. Because then the, then the video series will give you plans. Okay. And this is a class that's been taught to millions of people. And it will be great. I have to say, though, this when folks ask me, hey, can you help me and my spouse work on our communication? Almost always what they're really asking me is, can you give me something another way to say this so I can get my spouse to do what I want them to do? And so the, what I'm hearing the question beneath your question is, I think there's a real possibility that the person I want to marry will not fully share their life with me. And so where it can be what I call proxy wars is, I want to go out, I want to cook at home. I want to do that. And what that tells me is that there's a thing beneath the thing. And that is, we aren't aligned on a future that we are building together. Yeah. And it's probably hitting the spot, like what she was saying about the child drama of like, you're not feeling safe. So you're like, save the money to make sure that we're okay. He's feeling deprived and not respected because he has a plan and he's actually providing because his parents, you don't even like, there's all these stories that we make up that come out as money problems. But all that is under it. So what I agree with what you're saying is like, can you get to the thing beneath the thing? Right. And often that can be done by y'all going out and saying, hey, let's go five years out in the future. What's our dream? How much money would you like to have in a savings account? What trips would you like to take? And let's just, let's just for a second dream with no math. And then let's just do math and say, okay, what must be true then for these things? What number would make you feel safe? Can I ask you real quick? Is he irresponsible with spending? Does he have the money? Or is he going into debt to do this stuff? He's not always going into debt to do these things. Okay. That's good. Well, have debt. Okay. Bad decisions. He's made in the past. Gotcha. So I think him earning some trust with you, working towards a life that is that where he's getting out of debt. So that is spending, because the spender in him is always going to be there. That enjoyment and experiences in all of it. So how do you get that part of him in a healthy spot where he's still going to be that, and you're still going to be you. And that's the beautiful thing about marriage. As opposites attract, you're going to be different and you need each other. Let me tell you what I get asked all the time. When should I get term life insurance? How much do I need? Is it affordable? Those are the right questions to be asking. So let's take a quick review. The fact is term life isn't a baby step. So if anyone is dependent on your income, you need to have 10 to 12 times your income in life insurance. Now, and most people are surprised by how affordable term life really is. Even if you're not in perfect health, look, I understand the hesitation since most insurance companies make it more of a hassle than it needs to be. Not as standard insurance. They're not an insurance company. They're a broker that works for you. That means they'll shop and compare the top term life companies to find the most competitive options on the coverage for your family. For almost 30 years, I've recommended Xander for straight answers, competitive rates, and coverage that actually protects your family. Call 800-356-4282 or go to Xander.com for a quick and easy quote. That's Xander.com. Next up, we have Steve in New York City. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much. So cool to get in. Oh, so glad you called. I hope that's not your standard time. You can do better. No, I'm just kidding. Thanks for calling. How can we help? You got it. What's going on? A union administered 401(k). I put 22% in that right now. For various reasons, I'm trying to make up some lost ground here. The union requires my employer to put in 3% whether I contribute or not. My issue is they don't make a lot of money with that 401 and I have no control over how it's invested. The last year, it only did 8%. So my question is would I be better off taking that 22% putting that somewhere else? Yeah, absolutely. I fund the loss every year also. Oh, good. Well done, Steve. Would you lose the 3% match? No. No, you would still get that. That goes in no matter what. So what made you decide to do the 22% in the union because it's just a 401(k). Yeah, and it saves me tax-wise. Yeah. And it's what I thought I could stomach and still get by. Okay. You know, months to months. How much catch up are you trying to do? Well, it depends on how you look at it. If I retired now, I could make it, but it would be tight. So I plan to work until 67, at least. How long are you going to hold a couple of years? 65. Okay. Yeah. So if you went on your own and did like a brokerage, right? You'd be paying taxes on both sides of the equation, but I still think you probably would be better off than 8%. I mean, Steve, I mean, on average, like what was the last year was 22%? 22%, you know? So I'm like, you can, yeah, the investment sucks. Yes, of what they have it in. So I would go up to the 3% match of the 401(k) and then beyond that, the Roth IRA. And then if you still have 15% left that you need to win that 15% range, gosh, I may just, I may just do, yeah, open up a brokerage account and do some grow stock mutual funds or an index funds, because I just think you're going to get a better. I have a brokerage account that did 22 last year. Yep, yep. So I almost think it would be worth it because what sucks about unions and their investment strategy is that you don't have a choice of what they put it in. And same with some pensions as well. And so that's why we always say don't put a large you know, amount of your 15% and those because you don't have that control, but yeah, 8% is that's, that's, yeah, all in all, it's a, it's a good deal with them. I have, I have a pension from a prior union. It's small now. I gave up most of that inner force that explains the lost ground and I have two other pensions with this union. Okay. When I leave, I only have 10 years in. So, you know, they're, they're small, but they're very helpful. Well, sure, but you don't have the control over where that money's being invested. No, no, and I can't take those in a lump either. Those are, those are, you know, defined benefit plans and that's that. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think if it were me, I think I would make other decisions with that money. So, I probably would do the 3% match that you had. And then the rest of it. Yeah, actually, it isn't even a match. That's, they put that in, I don't know. Oh, it's automatic. Okay. Yeah. So, I mean, how much do you make a year, Steve? I just got bumped up a bit. I'll be at about 150 this year. 150. Okay. So, let me think. Okay. Yeah, because 3% and then the 7500 into the Roth, you'll have some extra left because you'll probably be investing. If you do the 15% until your house is paid off, if you follow the baby steps, then. Yeah, that's, I'm almost ready with that too. Okay. We could throw that in there too if you want. I don't know if I should take money off the brokerage and just pay off the mortgage. I don't know. I owe $17,000. Okay. No, I would work your way through that, but I would be in, I would take down your 22% that you've been doing down to 15, do the 7500 into the Roth, you know, add that you can add some of that 3% from the employer, but they're automatically doing it. Yeah, I mean, sorry, I'm jumbling here. I do Roth IRA. I would do Roth IRA. I would stop the Union 401k because it's just a terrible rate of return. Put the rest remaining of your 15% into a brokerage account and you could just put it in a, again, just like an index fund and it just goes into the S&P 500 and then pay off your house and then once the house is paid off, which hopefully you can do, gosh, and probably what eight months or something or less than that. Yeah. Then you can start throwing some more into that brokerage and just get it going. So the benefit of the 401k of saving on tax, of that pre-tax money going in, I don't think it's going to come out well from a math standpoint if you are losing that much and gain from a, from a rate of return. Yeah. I guess what do I need an account to crunch that number? I would get with the Smart Vestor Pro there in New York. Yeah, if you go to ramsysolutions.com, you can check when out, yeah, they're in New York. And that's probably what I would do is run those numbers because depending on when you want to retire and everything, but man, if it's 8% and the 22% market, it's going to be half of that. Yeah. You know, it's just, it's, it's, there's just too much to be gained, I think, by sitting in something like that. So yeah, I would, I use a Smart Vestor Pro. Rachel uses a Smart Vestor Pro. George, we all, I mean, we all, who we all sit down with. And so I trust them with my families that teaching in my particular agent with my, with my family's future. So that's me putting my money where my mouth is and saying with Rachel, so that's, Dave's got a Smart Vestor Pro. So that's, that's what I would do. That's it down with them and crunch those numbers, but yeah. And a Smart Vestor Pro is someone who can advise you when it comes to your investments. So their financial planner is investment advisors that look at this, not only this part of your life, when it comes to investments, but even the overall picture. So other assets that you have, they can even look at your tax standpoint. I mean, they, they're able to look at your entire financial picture. They, you know, we really push when it comes to investing with them, but a great financial planner is going to look at your entire picture. And if you're on baby steps forum beyond you guys, having someone in your corner is so worth it. Do that with anything in the financial space, honestly, like if you were selling your house, get a great realtor, you can go to, you know, Ramsey trusted and check them out taxes. When it comes to your insurance, like having people in your corner that do this day in and day out in these niches in the financial industry, it is worth every penny. It really is because they're going to be able to advise your specific situation. And so that's one, yeah, reason you were talking about them because they can sit down and actually run those numbers with you, Steve. But bigger than running the numbers, they teach you how it all works and why they're doing what they're doing. And I called a year ago and said, Hey, I want to do this instead of this. And my person said, I think that's dumb, but you're the boss. And I hear, I hear the opposite of that so much. People are like, try to get talked out of it and you're stupid. And here's why you're dumb. And it's almost like the, the investment advisor says like, this is my money. And you're, you're going to do what I say with your money, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Instead of my son, Mr. Pro walked alongside me. We talked about it. And so I like knowing why I'm doing what I'm doing and how things work. And to continue to learn. I mean, we even sat with ours in January. And he was shown as this whole thing that I was like, I didn't even know that what, you know what I mean? Like it was like tax loss harvesting here. And then you can run that and put this here. And I'm like, is this all legal? And they're like, yes, it is. But I'm like, oh, my gosh, like I didn't know some of, like they literally will, they sit there and teach you and show you. And then they're like, okay, would you want to do that? Or you want to keep it over here? It's, you know, but you, it's your money. So you get to decide. They're teachers. Yes. And someone needs to, you need to feel that positional power when you're sitting down with anybody that it, that this is your life. And then they can advise you and teach you, but you get to finally choose what, what the, what the final answer is. But I love your, I love you being on top of it enough, Steve, to know like, hey, wait a minute. In this one little count that I open myself, I got 22%. How come the one y'all are managing that's supposed to take care of all of us forever, got eight percent? That tells me something's fishy. Something's not right. And so your instincts are dead on, brother. Yep. Absolutely. So thanks, Steve. Yeah. But all you guys can go to RamseySolutions.com and check out our smart investors there. Yeah. And anyone else to help you because that's, that is one thing that, again, when you try to do things on your own isolated and you try to be yourself to every single thing where you're not super knowledgeable, go learn. Like get someone that you trust in your corner and learn about it. Like that is such an important part. Don't stay ignorant and just like, I'm going to just figure it out. Go and find someone who's going to teach you these things because it's so important to continue to grow and learn so that you can make great decisions for your family and your finances. As your business grows, everything becomes more complex. There was a time when Ramsey Solutions had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business. We wasted too much time chasing information instead of making decisions. That's why we got NetSuite. NetSuite brings your financials, inventory, CRM, and more together in one place. More than 44,000 businesses run on NetSuite, including Ramsey. And now they're taking the next step with NetSuite next, making it easier to put AI to work across your entire business. NetSuite next helps you make the most of your time. Automating routine work like forecasting demand and following up on overdue accounts. With NetSuite next, AI is built into everything you do. So you can ask it questions just like when you're talking to a member of your team. And right now, you can try NetSuite next for free. If your revenue is at least seven figures, go to NetSuite.ai/ramsey. That's NetSuite.ai/ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with John Deloni, or answering your questions at AAA8255-225. All right, starting us off from ooh Canada. We got Anthony on the line. Hi Anthony, welcome to the show. Hello, how are you? How can we help? So my question is how do I convince my wife to go to the baby steps when most of our financial struggles have been caused by me like our debt? So she doesn't trust you with the finances? Yeah, like she trusts me to kind of make the plan until it comes into crossing over to kind of making sacrifices on her end financially. We're not fully combined because of my debt. She doesn't want to fully combine our finances yet. Did you take out debts behind her back without her knowing? Not behind her back. A lot of like the decent amount was from before we were married and then just ongoing. I don't know. Maybe it was not behind her back but not fully informing her of the stuff that I was buying that was with debt, not with my cash. So she was surprised to know the amount of debt that you have. So behind her back. Yeah, like she know I had debt but not how much. Yeah. So rebuilding trust always starts with somebody laying everything out on the table. And so even in this call you're like not one behind her back. I just didn't she didn't know about it and she thought it was cash but it was really credit cards. Right, so it's at some point you'll have to come to her and say the words. I didn't treat you with [BLANK_AUDIO] I didn't treat you honestly. I did stuff on my own without you and I'm sorry and Together we can work on moving forward and that would take you requesting Will you give me a road map back to trust? What does that look like? Because I don't want to own anybody money anymore. I want our family to not have any anxiety and stress inside of the walls of ours home I want it to be the the warmest safest place from the craziness. It's out in the world right now Can you give me a road map back to what that would look like and that in in it? That's it means a language. It's it's submission I have messed this up and I need to make this right. It's making amends right and short of that It's gonna feel like another scheme another thing. I can't fully trust you I'm gonna do my thing you do your thing especially if you're asking her to make sacrifices on her ends Yeah, she's probably like what like oh you got to have all your fun with your credit cards And now I have to sell my car like right and so that's a tough sell if it's if it's not trust there if there's not trust And it's not from an emotional center that is I messed up and I want to make this right Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, she works very hard makes makes me some decent money, but doesn't have much to show for it because She's she's paying more than her for their share of her bills because I'm paying so much to my debts the one Okay, how much are how much do you make a year Anthony? So I make 85,000 what is she doing bonus and she makes around 90 around 90 okay, and how much debt do you how much debt do you have? So in total I have I've 10,000 on credit cards. This is this is between the both of us approximately see and I don't know exactly how much she has I know it's not a lot like she has it a little bit, but total is 10,000 on credit cards 10,000 online of credit And then we did a debt consolidation almost year. So that was 22,000. Okay, and then You know my parents are I will my parents $10,000. Okay, so about 52,000 And there's also she does have a car loan. How much is that for? 28,000 28, okay, so what were you buying man? I Mean, you know what it was basically, you know, I was I'm making okay money now, but before I wasn't and I was just, you know, buying eating out a lot and When you just for the house I'm just gonna buy it. Are you just staying or want this thing? Yeah, but you got to a point where you called your mom and for $10,000 Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was all of them that gets us into we bought a house here earlier in the year and and used I have a gift from my parents to pay down some more debts in order to buy this house. So was it a gift or was it a loan? I it was a gift to us There was no expectation that it would be paid back, but I want to pay it back here I don't know if there was an understanding of it being loaned from their end My understanding is that you just feel a conviction of like you want to you want to pay this? Yeah, yeah Yeah, I don't I don't like it's willing hold me, you know, so Anthony, so if you said she's covering most of the bills with her income is most of your income able then to go to your debt Because if that's the case if y'all can live off her income and your income goes straight to all this debt you guys have it paid off in a year I mean, you know I don't know if it is most of her income on there. I think she wants to she wants to save a lot because she does make a decent amount I think we're actually relatively split on expenses here So but I think we need to kind of expense, but that's where I'm trying to get into the release that's what it obviously starts to convene sort of with no trust On my end here. Yeah Yeah, the rebuilding of trust is going to be key and then Once that starts to happen and I don't know what she needs to see if she needs to see you Throwing a lot at this debt you working an extra job to you know, do you mean like I don't know what that looks like for her But understanding that's going to be really big and then You know as you know the the quickest way to get out of debt when it comes to a merry couple is that you throw both incomes and the center of the table and say okay How can we use as much of this to get out of debt as quickly as possible? What come what do we have to cut what you know? What are things that we're used to like what you're saying? And remove those things and until then Anthony It's it's just going to be a little bit of an uphill climb from a baby steps perspective and so for some people I don't know John what you think it's like the chicken in the egg for some people They jump into a new process of life and with this specifically their money and suddenly they feel more unity than ever and they You know, it helps rebuild try it has held it's a it's a system at which these two people that were so on Two different islands for the first time come together on something so vulnerable like money and it helps their marriage Some people I feel like he old from things like what he's talking about and then they get into the baby. Is it make sense like? I don't know which is which well. I think you have to have I mean Anthony y'all first have to agree. Do you all want to do life together or not? Yeah, and yeah If you all agree on yes, we want to do life together then the next question is what do we want that life to look like and feel like? And if you all can agree on we want it to feel stress-free. We want it to feel warm. We want to feel connected. That's awesome A way to do that or though way to do that is to put all of our money in one big pot and we have agreed on Safety feels like this much money in retirement and safety feels like saving this much every month and safety feels like not Owing anybody anything But you're you're trying to solve a problem like four rings up and so you're coming at her with another plan another scheme another Now I've got it figured out honey and she's watched so many times you not having a scheme Y'all got to get connected and say do we want to do life together and I think that for you starts with saying I'm sorry I did things on my own this marriage was about me and and your wife was a was a supporting actress to your life instead of both of y'all were co-stars in this World that y'all are co-creating And then say here's my dream for us that we share everything vision for the future dreams kids Finances all of it is us building a life together Would you go with with me on that vision? And I think that's where you start the conversation and then the baby steps is just a great path and a great tool to help that all come together You Listen guys, I've heard just about every excuse for why folks think they can't get ahead with money So let's go ahead and settle this right now you get the final say on what happens with your money That's why you have to start telling your money where to go so you can stop wondering where it went So if you're going to start winning with money you have to get on a budget and the easiest way to get started and stick to it is with the every dollar budget app It'll help you make a plan for every single dollar coming in and every single dollar going out every single month And guess what it's free so no excuses download every dollar in the app store or Google Play today You Did you file an extension on your 2025 taxes? Well, the October 15th deadline is coming up quick But the good news is you have a couple of options to get it handled if your taxes are pretty straightforward ramsy smart tax makes filing affordable and really simple and it has built-in support if you get stuck in it in the process So it ramsy smart tax really is amazing you guys seriously if you don't have a complicated tax situation There's so many so many easy ways to do it through ramsy smart tax But if your taxes are a little bit more overwhelming and complicated you may need a tax pro And nobody wants to face the IRS without backup. So make sure you figure out which tax situation you're in You can take our tax quiz at ramsy solutions.com/taxquiz is aside Hey, do I can I just do ramsy smart tax or do I need a tax pro in my corner Let's go to Jim and Pittsburgh. Hi Jim. Welcome to the show. Hi. How you doing? How can we help? So I'm 28 I own a plumbing company. My household income is about 240,000 a year. My wife does not work. She stays home with the baby and I'm in a good bit of debt about nine hundred twenty thousand dollars And this has come from similar to Dave a real estate investing Spiel over the last three to four years And about 800 of that is from real estate with a 25 paid car loan and then about 90K In business credit cards that are personally guaranteed And I have some equity in the real estate about 170K and a good household income, but I just today had an offer fall through on a property and I I'm just done with the lack of peace that this is bringing me. So I just wanted to call and kind of take your brain on my spare how to get out of this. - Oh, Jim, I'm so sorry. Oh, how old are your kids? - Just one and be one year old. - A year old, okay. How many properties is it? - It is four properties with about 17 units that's very cross-laced for. - Individual units, so you bought multi-family. - Yes. - Okay. And where are you to the point of not being able to pay the payments? - I can pay the payments just fine, actually it's just that. - It's just the stress of having them, it's leverage. - Yes, exactly. - Okay, well that's a good thing. - Can you just sell? - Yeah, that you're not behind. There's no major urgency of having to do a foreclosure short sale. You can keep up the payments. So yeah, what would it be like to put everything on the market and even if you don't make a huge profit out of it, you get them out of your life? - Yeah, I'm talking to an agent this week about getting them listed. And that's my first step there. But I just have some of that credit card debt as well. And I'd ideally like to walk away with the money to pay that off as well. - Sure, but if not, you're making one or 240, you could pay it off in a year, right? I mean, from the credit card debt perspective, that's not what's really scaring me. 'Cause I think your income, you can cash flow with some massive payments and get that out of the way. It's the almost million dollars debt that's sitting there. And yeah, exactly what happened day, but the bank's just called all his notes, pretty like a domino effect. - Yeah, so you're like out ahead of Dave right now. You have a chance to get out of this. If you just say, dude, I was playing a dumb game for three or four years, I'm out of the game. I'm gonna sell all this stuff. Even if you've calculated for yourself, 170 grand in equity spread across these four properties. Even if you walk away with 25 grand, I would tell you there's a soul tax for your family that you don't own anybody anything. And except for this credit card debt, and you can just move the knock that stuff out, man. - Okay. - I would not cling to the imaginary number that you've calculated that is this thing called equity across four properties that adds up to 170. 'Cause in your head, you've already spent that 170. On clearing all your debts, probably get a new car. Like you've already spent it, I wouldn't do that. I would just go and order. I'm gonna list all these properties and get them sold as quickly as possible. - Okay, all right. - Yeah, and if you can find a great realtor and you get a great price and there's equity, and that's great, but don't stay in the game, right? And keep this debt over your head for another year, just to figure out, squeeze out any little dollar you can of equity. So get a great age in your corner. If you go to RamseySolutions.com/realestates and find a great pro and work with it and get as much bang for the buck if you can in the shortest amount of time though. 'Cause to your point, Gem, you're 28. You got a one year old and having almost a million dollars, you know, over your head. Or no, yeah, almost a million dollars. - Gosh. - And 17 tenants are rotating in and out and all that, yeah. That's a lot. - It's a lot. - It's a lot. - And on the other side of it, paint this picture for yourself. You owe nobody anything. And you make a quarter million dollars. And you have a one year old and your wife gets to stay at home 'cause she wants to, not 'cause she has to. Like, man, that's just, dude, that's just peace. It's just peace, man. And your whole family will wear that. So, man, that's what I'd be aiming for. - And what a gift that you're not in crisis mode, right? Of having to do short sales or anything. 'Cause that's always the risk, right? If something turns the corner or not in a good way. So, yep, I'd get out of it, Gem. I think that's a smart move long term. You're 28. Just call it your stupid decade of messing with dad and move forward. - And be done with forever. - Yep. All right, let's go to Delaware. We got Mark on the line. Hi, Mark. Welcome to the show. - Hey, Rachel, hey, Dr. John. Hey, quick question, baby step seven here. And I'm stumped. I have about $1.5 million in investment. Some of my wife and I have been big savers, big fans of Ramsey's organization for years. And we're with a big major firm. And they're now offering us to have wealth management. The wealth management is very Ramsey-esque. No more to what I'm doing, but they, you know, are more diversified in the sales pitch. I'm not sure if I should do this for our family to go into the wealth management. The wealth management is approximately 1.85% a year. So it works out to be about 12 grand a year that they'll take out of the accounts. And I really am a loss because I AI did their proposal. And what I've been doing for the last year, five years and 10 years. And last year, I beat them a little bit. And then five and 10, it was close. So I met a loss if I should take this advantage of this or not. - And what are they gonna give you? What services do they provide in this? - Basically, it's the intangibles where you're talking to a live person. They have this lot of array of different investment choices to put in there. And I don't know if it's worth the human asset where we've been plugging away and doing fine on our end. - So you haven't used a financial advisor at any level. You've just used a firm for a brokerage account. Is that right? - Yeah, yeah, exactly. I do my basic, domestic index funds. And I just don't know if it's never been pitched like this before, and it's like, whoa. - Yeah, well, I'll say since I don't know the actual company and the exact, you know, specifically what you're gonna work with, let me recommend the philosophy overall. And then you can narrow down to figure out if this person fits that criteria. But we have long been fans of, yes, having a financial planner, financial investment, professional in your corner. Because I do think, yes, that they end up making you more in the long run. They're gonna be able to see things that maybe you don't see, understand things about the industry that's ever changing, that literally it's a full time job to know. And once you build that level of trust with someone, over especially a long period of time, right? Where they have taught you things, they have advised you well. And when they're able to speak into your money, because of the, because of again, not only is it just the changing of the industry, but they just, they just know things and understand our educated, you know, on things that just the average person may not, right? I mean, like, and we even said in the last segment, truly in January, we sat down with our Smart Vestor Pro. And he taught us, he taught me something. And I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize you could do that. Well, then yeah, let's do this. And I would have never known that. And so there's so many things. - Yes, yes, we're just choices. - And you've done great markup into this point, you know, and if you just lived your life and you just had money in that, you know, index fund, you're gonna be fine. But I think you could honestly probably get more bang for your buck, having somebody in your corner that's advising and showing you and teaching you. That is worth it. And you know, and you could look up in five years and be like, it's not worth it, right? It doesn't have to be a forever relationship if you don't want it to be, right? So, I don't know, there's just something powerful about having that human. And again, it's someone that you trust, but check out our Smart Vestor Pros at RamseySolutions.com. 'Cause those are ones that I can, with confidence, hand you over to. - Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey. Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to RamseySolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's RamseySolutions.com. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Next we have Kim in Las Vegas. Hi, Kim, welcome to the show. - Hi, thanks, I'm really hopeful you guys can give me some brilliant ideas 'cause I don't know what to do. - Okay, what's going on? - Well, we'll give you some ideas. I can't guarantee they're gonna be brilliant, Kim. We're gonna try a weird thing on it, so let's hope for brilliant. My husband seems to me about three years ago that he had a gambling addiction and at that point, he put us about $500,000 in debt. Over the last three years, I thought things were getting better. But in the last year, our debt has gone up over another 150,000, so we are well over a million dollars in debt now. My overarching question is, should we sell the house? And I don't even know if that's by the time we pay off, the house and the lanes were not even gonna be able to touch our really high interest credit card payments. - Gosh, I don't know what to do. And we're grounding. - I'm so sorry. - Oh. - What a catastrophic mess. - Oh yeah. - I guess, let me ask this in reverse. Are you gonna stay married? Well, first off, Nevada, well, I have a Christian, I don't believe in it and I do love my husband even though it's a complete idiot. And in Nevada, we would split the debt anyways and if we were trying to support two households with our kids, it wouldn't make sense. There's just, it doesn't, it would be a dumb idea. Okay, because there's a path that we walk where you're figuring out how to dig out of your mess and then there's a path that we walk that y'all are trying to figure out y'alls a mess. The biggest concern I have right here is, I can't in good conscience tell you to sell your house right now because I, it sounds like a guy that would go gamble it all away. Yeah, go pick it back up exactly where he started. Well, here's the thing, he's not gambling in a different way now, let's say. It doesn't matter. He decided that he doesn't go to the casino's and gamble, but what he started was one of those like card selling businesses, so he's buying packs of like Pokemon cards and whipping them and trying to sell those cards and baseball cards and football cards. It's a different version of gambling. It is still gambling, but, but so let me say it this way, the way what I call this financial infidelity and no relationship at all, especially a marriage can do any, make any sort of forward progress. If there's not two things, safety and trust and right now your household has neither of those things, because you don't trust the guys as far as you can see them and you shouldn't. He's been untrustworthy and there is a radical safety component to this, right? Like there's this huge debt, but I mean, you're incredibly unsafe. And so that's my big concern here. If you said, hey, he is entreatment, he is 90 days sober, he's 120 days sober. He's gone to groups. Yeah. He's got no absolutely no way to access capital for the next year and that's the arrangement that I've made with him and I want to be his spout, all that great good. Then I would say, okay, let's get about selling big assets, let's get about moving stuff around and all that. I don't hear that even there yet and it would be like handing, like if I had a buddy who's I got multiple friends in recovery, it would be like me handing them drink after like that would be unwise to hand somebody that much cash after selling your house. Should you get what I'm saying? Yeah, I guess I do. How much is your house worth? Rob, it's about 750 and when I take what we go on the house and all the lean, it's 598. Okay. So there's not a lot left after that and obviously you have to pay rent and all those things. Yeah. Yeah. 150 towards it. So, Kim, what do you need from him to rebuild trust? What are things? Because it sounds like you've just said, I love him and it is what it is and so he's going to keep doing what he's doing and he's kind of like getting his fill over here and all. It's almost like he hasn't crashed and burned. Does he feel that? Like I'm just curious where he is with all of it because I would pray in a situation. Part of the problem is, yeah. Yeah. Part of the problem is he, I mean, he has a lot of guilt and shame but because of his old ways of all the years that he was hiding it from me, that's kind of what he just continues to do. I keep calling it. He robs Peter to pay Paul and keeps just scooting stuff around behind my back and we don't have really open on his conversations because typically I just start crying and I get really angry and I panic and I freak out over everything and I know he feels terrible and I would like to say he's willing to do whatever it's going to take although thus far he hasn't shown it and he wants me to give him trust. I told him I wanted to separate bank accounts and he freaked out on me and I know I'm in the right. But I need a third party at some point to tell him he's an idiot and I'm in the right and I get to run the show now but right here's the show you have to run right now. You have to get a separate bank account. I'm worried about your safety as a woman and as a mother with children, yeah. Because you can wake up tomorrow and have no rent money and no, I mean, no mortgage money and no grocery money and you're going to be out on the street. And so. We're just about there so listen, so the thing you can control here, the one thing you've proven to yourself and he's proven to you over and over is you cannot control him. You can't scream at him. You can't cry. You can't be heartbroken. You can't be stunned. None of those things change him. The only person you can control here is you. And so that starts with you being an advocate for yourself. Do I have rent money? Do I have food money? Period. You can freak out all he wants. He's lost the right to this is a very financially abusive situation you're living in. And I'm speaking this directly because I'm trying to shake you out of this prison that you that's wrapped around you right now, okay. It's incredibly unsafe. And I've never had one of these situations that's this bad that you fully know how bad it really is. Yeah, well, actually, as of like air clock this morning, I was found out there was another hundred. That's what I'm saying. I promise you, it's worse than you think it is. And so again, you're looking at big picture stuff. I want you to start very small four walls. To me and my kids have a place to live, food to eat, water, electricity, and can I get to and from work. Do you work him? Yeah. How much do you make? I make about 215. Okay. From this day on, from this day on, your check from your work, him needs to go in a separate account, okay. And that's not you being unreasonable. That's not you being a bad wife. That is you doing actually the healthy step of what exactly what John is saying. You need to go down to the bank. Separate it, I don't, I guess part of my problem is if we separate it, do I just pay the bills that are under my name, like because all of our stuff is so tight out, he emptied my 401K at my job without me knowing, like, I, all of the stuff is so mixed up, I don't even know what's under my name. I don't even know what. Does he signed any, have you checked your credit report? Yeah, I keep, I keep an eye on it really. Okay. Yeah. So you can check it. So I would make sure. And I would put a freeze on it. Put it, yeah. So that way they have to contact you if somebody wants to take out a credit card in your name or anything. Yes. So I didn't know that was a thing. And so put a freeze on it. Yeah. And then I would go through and begin looking at what do, what is in your name? And I know every state has different laws, but like there, if there's credit cards out, if there's 401K loans out with your name on them, then yeah, I would begin making a plan. And all of this plan, it's, the mess is so big, I'm worried about your safety right now. If a guy will go behind his wife's back and empty out her retirement plan and then hold her sob with her commit to change and then go run another couple, a hundred thousand dollars in the hole behind her back at like, there's, and he, and he needs healing, Kim. He desperately needs to like, baseball cards, trading and Pokemon, like that is, that is not healing. There would be some conditions for me as a wife that you will go to treatments, that you will go to weekly, like I need proof that you are on a journey of healing because if not, your marriage is not a healthy place. He has ended the marriage that you had. Now he gets to decide does he want to be a part of rebuilding a new one and you've got to give him that road map to trust, but that comes after you and your kids are safe. You've heard from me and the Ramsey personalities for years, but nothing beats actually getting together in person. That's why we created the live like no one else crews. For seven days, we're vacationing with you and 2500 Ramsey people in the Western Caribbean. With live shows, us, new content, us and more. If you're on baby step four or beyond, come spend the week with us next March. Choose your cabinet at RamseySolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes. Our scripture of the day is Hebrews at 13 at 16. Do not forget to do good and to share for with such sacrifices that God is well pleased. Nathan Morris said, "The speed of your success is limited only by your dedication and what you're willing to sacrifice." All right, let's go to Brittany and Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Hi, husband and I. We would like some financial aid. advice and parenting advice. Her 18 year old daughter, she became pregnant when she was 17 and still in high school. And she is a go-getter. She graduated high school while maintaining a job. She got found a job right out of high school in her profession, a choice. She is doing awesome. - That is so great. - That's great. - And hey, I've worked with teenagers in that situation that also means she had two parents that were by her side, so kudos to you two also. - Yes, absolutely. We just want to support her all the way, however. We have told her that we would support her financially with the baby and the father is very much involved which we appreciate and love. However, he does not have a job and cannot hold a job. So my husband and I came to the rough conclusion that we should probably cut her off financially. So she could see what it is like to have that kind of work ethic as a partner. And we're just struggling with that. Is that a right answer to do? - I mean, it kind of makes sense. - I'm scared of the crap out of her. So she doesn't marry him. If he's not, I mean, he won't provide. I mean, I get the, you know, you got the answer. - I would, I would go there, except as a baby involved. - Absolutely. - And so that's where my hesitation here is. - That's why we're having trouble with it. Now that the father, he is 20 years old. So he's very capable. Ward is having a, and we did offer for them to live with us, which they did under the condition they both had jobs, which he could not fulfill. So we asked him to leave, which she followed him and we expected that, but we just have a really tough shine coming to support her financially when she has a partner that's capable of doing it. - John doesn't agree. - And they're not married. They're not married. So it was married. - I would have no question about, you know, cutting off the finances, but they're not married. So how, if they're not married, but he's very much, - Because you naturally feel like you're an avalanche. - Yeah, I'm not to get a job because he's attached to her and the money that you're giving her is part of how they're sustaining their life. - Yeah, and I guess the, I mean, there's gonna be, I'm just thinking through this. And so I'm gonna be thinking about it in real time. It's such a great question. I appreciate you letting me wrestle, and me and Rachel wrestle through it with you. Anytime I wanna make a statement, I always wanna be as careful as I can with what are the second and third order impacts of my statement, all right? And so I'm 100, you've heard me say this a thousand times on the show, 18 year olds who wanna make eight grown up decisions, then they've gotta, they've gotta understand the weight of adult decisions, right? My fear here is the baby would wear the cost, 'cause dad's not gonna go get a job. He give up free housing, that's not gonna force him. So what's gonna happen is he's gonna stay at home with this baby and baby's gonna be raised by, and that maybe that's the arrangement they set up that he's gonna be a stay at home dad, but your daughter's gonna have to go get second, third and fourth jobs. And, but at the end of the day, the baby wears the weight here. That's my fear. Yeah, that's ours too, we don't want the baby to go without. It is, and we'll not let that happen, but I do question their spending since they really don't have bills, and she is making money. How are you supporting them? She, well right now we're paying her bills, such as her payment, car insurance, her phone bill. Whenever she asked for money, which is quite frequently, we give it to her without question. Okay. Over the last two weeks, we gave her $200. Yeah. Yeah. I would probably start some of that. Yeah. She just texted me and said she needed formula, like how do you say no to that? Right. I might say I will purchase formula, I will purchase diapers, and I will have them sent to my grandbaby's apartment. Okay. Right, and that way I can be in-- In diapers and Amazon, you have an Amazon to live right for the stuff that the baby needs to do. And that way you're not handing over cash, so you don't know how it's going to get spent, and that kind of stuff. And again, I'm making this up in real time. If I had some time to think through it, I might come to a different conclusion, but I want to make sure as grandparent to that little baby is not going to wear the cost of a 20-year-old dad, who's just not doing anything, but then I'd sit down and say, okay, at the end of you have 30 days or 60 days or whatever, this comes to an end. And we love you, and the greatest-- And you and that baby are always welcome back in our house, he is not, 'cause he's making grown-up choices. Okay. What I've seen in the past working with young teen moms is a, a fear that they have nowhere to go. So I want to alleviate that for her. And be-- Yeah, that's a little, reach a lot. Right, and B is, I want to make sure baby's okay. And that's just a tricky balance that you all navigate. Do you know how much she makes, Brittany, a year? A little, a little mess. I do not see, just started. So it's probably pretty low. It is a job that requires clientele, so she does have to build that up. I would say not know that. I mean, she's 18, not probably much, but I know where she doesn't have bills, she should be okay. So I wonder if there's like some, it almost feels, which feels funny saying about an 18 year old, 'cause she has a kid, right? And you feel like she should be an adult in the usual world. But I do wonder if there's a structure you help her in with when it comes to money of, hey, we're gonna do every dollar in Sharon account, and I want to see your budget every month. And I want to see where you're planning on spending that income. And alongside that, because of that, then we will help in X, Y, and Z. We'll pay the car payment, maybe you're something for a few months, right, to see. I just want her to be able to build skills and know how to do this well as an adult versus just being like, go into the real world and figure it out. So I just wondered too, if there's some type of structure you could put her in, and ask she doesn't, then maybe feel too conditional, I don't know. - No, I love it. - But it's like, as she does it, we will help you with this, 'cause I think it is, yeah, it's a skills issue. - And track your transactions, then we will help you here. But the moment she just is like, I'm gonna just do whatever I want with my income and then runs out of money and can't buy formula for her kid, that's not gonna work long term, right, with the tools that she's gonna need. So I'm wondering how you can support her in that way for her to learn how to do this while walking alongside her. And then eventually you let her fly and be free. - What's, when you've sat down and you're, you and your husband have sat down and talked with this, with dad, why won't dad keep a job? Why won't dad get a job? - We don't know. - Does he get fired or is it quit? - He's very capable and he's, A.G., while we were living in our house for about three, four months, he got fired from one job for showing up too late too many times. And then he walked out of his second job that he had. - Wow. So we continued to let him live with us for a couple weeks and then we're finally like, okay, it's not working out. - Did that strain and the relationship with your daughter and you when that happens, when he moved out? - No, she understood. They were, I mean, she was pregnant for a long time. So we already had this kind of plan and we already went over everything with them, the conditions and so she knew that was part of the conditions. - Okay. - But, no, I think our relationship is fine, but she did move out to go be in her house. - Yeah, yeah. - Okay. So yeah, I like Rachel's plan for scaffolding is the nerds call it, like I'm gonna walk alongside you and I will support you as much as you will follow the plan. I'm gonna put in front of you, but make sure that baby's okay. - Yeah, thanks for the call, Brittany. All right, this concludes this hour of the show. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.