Flynn McGarry on Collecting Taste and Technique

Pushkin. Is taste innate, or is it learned? In the case of the chef Flynn McGarry, it's a combination of both. A wunderkind, a child prodigy, who began cooking professionally at age 10. He was covered as an oddity in global publications. And he could have easily burnt out. But against those odds, he's become a credible force in dining in New York City. Shaped early by Californian cooking, he went on to train in Scandinavian kitchens and study kaiseki in Japan. His New York restaurants, Cove and Gem Home, represent his most complete expression. Even as they constantly evolve. At 27, his path is only limited by his imagination. And the new influences he will bring from around the world to his wood-paneled restaurants in New York City. Here's my conversation with the chef. Flynn McGarry. Flynn, welcome to Traveling Through. I'm really happy to have you. You know, you started, obviously, so young. But where was the first place that you traveled professionally as a cook, as a chef? Growing up in California, I had this sort of plan to finish high school early. And sort of made this deal with my mom. That was like, instead of going to college or whatever, like, I'm going to go to Europe and work. You know, this is like what chefs used to do. You know, it's like you go to Europe and you learn these trades that they've been doing for much longer and this culture. A stage. Yeah. And so, you know, I had this plan. It was like, I was like saving up. I was like, because I didn't have the money to travel, you know, and do this. And so, I spent all these years working a full-time job in L.A. as a child. And then doing these pop-ups, saving everything up to be able to do this trip to sort of, like, actually see these restaurants firsthand. And, you know, very much so, like. What was on your, like, hit list? What was on the dream restaurants? So, I knew I wanted to go to Scandinavia. I was like, okay. On one hand, I was going to go to Favikin. And then I was like, do I want to go spend four months in the woods? Maybe that's not really, like, what it's supposed to be like going to a new city and, like, exploring these things. Favikin was a restaurant that was, I mean, super remote. Three hours out of the way. I was like, I also couldn't drive at the time. So, I was like, I don't even know how I would get there. I also, that was another reason that I kind of looked to Scandinavia. It was like, they all speak English, which was, you know, very helpful for me. If I went cold into a French kitchen, I would, you know, I don't know what I would do. Yeah, they're not speaking English for you. So, there was sort of one option for me was this area. And I had seen this restaurant, Maimo, that was really intriguing to me and just like, Well, where's Maimo? Maimo's in Oslo. Okay. It felt much more reasonable as, like, a first place to go. It wasn't a three-star. It was a two-star at the time. Chef was very young. The team was small. So, I had that set up. And then I wanted to do Geranium, which is now a three-mission-serving restaurant in Copenhagen, mainly because it was such a different type of food than I was familiar with in cooking and was just like. This is what it's supposed to be. In what sense? This is, like, very modernist, very, like, not this sort of idea that people have of, like, Scandinavian, like, you know, kind of, like, foraged and whatever. I didn't want to just go to, like, two of the same restaurants. Right. And then you had Geranium, which was really, like, he won the Boku's door every year. Like, you know, I spent 90% of my time, like, filling molds with things. And I wanted to learn very distinct things at both restaurants was sort of my goal going into there. And I did. You know, I learned the things that I was going for. And it was a really sort of, like, amazing first place to go, especially in this, like, learning about Scandinavian culture and these things that I really liked about it and things that also maybe didn't love about it and that I didn't find, like, the most familiar. You know, I think for the first month, it wasn't miserable, but all I did, I went to the restaurant, I would work, and then on Sunday, I would hang out with the cooks and none of us were from there. And we didn't, you know, like, actually, the city was shut down. The city is the size of the Lower East Side. You know, I stayed on one end and Maimo was on the other end. I would walk to work every day, take 20 minutes. At 16, what were your parents like? You know, they, you would have been like a little mascot in the kitchen or was there, or were you close in age to the chefs? No, no, I was much younger. And they, you know, they called me hotshot. They like. Oh, really? Yeah. And like, randomly. Like, some Norwegian newspaper, like, covered me being there. And, you know, and I think that I've always loved that sort of, like, camaraderie. They're just like, this is a weird, a weird person. But then when you go through a hard service, you have to earn their respect. You earn their respect. And then, you know, everyone I worked with there, I still know today. And like, you know, they all have restaurants. And I think that's why I wanted to also work with a small team. And, you know, a lot of places where I went in as a single, you know, 16-year-old, and you're just sort of one person out of 100, it's very hard to gain anyone's respect. And they do just look at you as a child. And here it's like, you know, they were able to kind of take this chance on me, I think, because also I had worked with a sous chef before. And he kind of vouched, like, I know this is a young person, but he knows what he's doing. And they were able to treat me as, like, a team member because I was helping them. I was working 7 a.m. until midday. Like, we were doing all the same things. And I think very quickly, that's what I've always loved about kitchens is, like, you know, you could all be from a very different place. But the second that you're, like, all doing the same thing, it really kind of bonds you together. And that's really why I, like, love that size of a kitchen, like, around that 10 people. Like, it really does feel like this close-knit team where you all kind of jump around the restaurant to help each other. And, you know, there was a point where, like, towards the end when I was there, and it was like, I was like, I'm going to do this. I had learned kind of every station because I was on one, but then they'd need help over on the meat roast. And I'd go over there, and I learned how to, like, cut the langoustines. And so, like. But how do you, like, you know, at that age, how do you become in the know? Like, you're always reading at that point? Early. There's a website called eGullet that was just, like, early food bloggers. And, like, I was just so curious, you know? And so, yeah, I was always reading. I was, like, always trying to see. You know, what was resonating with me. And I think probably when I told people, like, I'm going to go to Oslo, they were like, why? You know? And I had never been there. I didn't really know anything about the city. Like, I just wanted to go work at this restaurant because there was something about what they were doing that felt very unique and special. And, like, you know, I still use all of these skills that I learned at that restaurant, like, to the day. Which is, I would say, like, the most successful kind of a stage that, like, every single thing that I learned there is, like, drilled into my brain. And I could probably make all of the dishes that I, like, cooked there from, like, memory today still. Do you think that destination dining is still a thing? Because I think it's kind of changed. I'm curious about your thoughts. It's changed significantly. I think we're in an era where it's not destination dining. It's, like, traveling. And then there's nice food there. I think what actually. Chef Favik and Magnus just opened in Sweden, I think, is, like, a perfect example of this. I think people are really willing to travel for a point of view. And we see that in hotels and, you know, even, like, going to see. Like, going to stay at a house in the middle of nowhere by an architect or something. I think that the style of food in those restaurants is going to change because the people that are traveling, getting on a flight, going there, and they're going to stay in these spaces. I think that the people that are traveling might not want the 27-course dinner that it always was. And I read something that he was talking about that where he was, like, he was going to open another Favik and that was the definition of, like, traveling for that. For sure. And he kind of came. This is a restaurant that, like, was in the middle of the snow, like, in Sweden, you know. So remote. So much of a pain in the ass. And, like, that was its whole thing. And he would be there and, like, out in the snow. Huge fuzz. Yeah. Breaking down an animal. Yeah. Foraging. It was like a whole image. And he had these seven-hour dinners that were, like, all these one bites. And it was, like, this aggressive pursuit of, like, perfection in the food. And he said this thing where he was going to open another one. And then he was, like, we don't need this anymore. And I think that that's the biggest change that's going on in the food world right now. There isn't one way to get your creative expression across. And that. That way that we've been doing it might actually now be the worst way to get that across. And I think that's why I love design so much. And, frankly, say that almost more of my job now is design than the actual, like, cooking of it. Is because I believe, like, we've talked about, like, you have these references, these things that you pull from. These, like, all this time that you spend getting these ideas. I do believe that they come across so much cleaner. and easier and less offensive even in your design and the way that you create a space and the way that you host someone then getting those ideas across on a plate you know it's really interesting because now there's this sort of 50 best of hotels 50 worlds 50 best and also three michelin keys they're calling them and i sort of think that the hotel world is starting to move into that moment which is very early on i kind of saw and was involved or adjacent to that world because i was writing about kind of restaurants that were on the 50 best i went last year to the 50 best ceremony in in turin in torino and it was really interesting to see all of the chefs because it it really went from this kind of ridiculous over-inflated ego where everyone was trying to drive at exactly the same aesthetic and same point of view and it's this symbiotic hell-scale where get me on the 50 best get me three yeah michelin keys and i don't know i just sort of see that as being a bit of a warning sign because i do think that like hotels are giving that complete expression of food design all those things and they can i think the difference too is that restaurants i think hit this point where they're like i can't charge anymore and a hotel you can charge as much as you want and i think that is the biggest thing that people don't really talk about where i'm like yeah i know why magnus opened a hotel because you can charge a hundred dollars for dinner and you can charge five hundred dollars for the room there in this tiny town and like people pay it and then it'll keep going up and up and up i do think you know to your exact point it's like they're all starting to look the same you know oh this was this was a sean mcpherson thing that now every hotel in the world does and like it's very similar to chefs where it's like you start to borrow these things and the the way that the the key is and then all of a sudden now that's how you do it and that's how you get three you know like i mean the thing that semi saves the world's 50 best although i don't think there's ever such thing as a best world's best anything there's no not no such thing is in the first year they gave it to this hotel in coma called puzzle aqua which is run by valentina de santos who's from a family of hoteliers but is really an extraordinary like she's kind of an extraordinary person and she's kind of an extraordinary person and she's kind of an ultra visionary yeah but you know she's kind of a generation defining hotelier so it's slightly different so everyone's then going to try to emulate a little bit that so it's definitely if you want to see how like hotel judging is is gonna like where that's going just look at the world's 50 best and the three michelin no i mean that's what it's that it's completely just shifted to that and i think in the same way though it's going to go through this process of you know everyone's going for this one thing and then it's going to revert to now we all need to go for the opposite and you know the style needs to change i think the difference though the hotel thing has always been it's like you have an asset now right so a restaurant is not mostly you don't own it you just have a lease and so it's like the longevity to be able to do that at a point where it makes money it's like if you get your hotel on this list and then one day you're just done you have a lot of money and you have a lot of money and you have a lot of money and you have a very expensive asset that works right you could run the best restaurant in the world forever but if you don't own your building and you don't own like right the rights and no one wants to buy because you're the chef and you're the only one that is keeping it up there's no long-term plan for that so that's where it's like i think the the judging is is obviously feeling very similar but i think the outcome the result will be is going to be completely different because just the way that these business models are run well and it's true and there's a lot of multinational corporations yeah that are showing up nice boutique hotels no one's buying up nice boutique restaurants you know i've always been like you know one day i would love to do a hotel because it does feel like this way to be able to see your vision through and the amount of work that you put into it compounds into a sort of worth and a restaurant what is both i think amazing about it but very difficult about it is the amount of work that you put into it in the beginning in the building of it in the ideation none of that matters if you don't do that same amount of work every single day and you're constantly reinventing it obviously a hotel you have to like upkeep all of that but i mean you do but a nice room gets you far enough right in that way have you ever been to lidoine yes it's a restaurant of my friends actually yeah james is from brisbane we grew up in the same i've known james for oh you have so long yeah well we grew up in the same um suburb of basically and we've been friends for some time and that was a long hell project for him i mean it was insane what he did like working as a chef not dissimilar to you in that whole bistronomy movement i've stayed there now twice and i always think it's like such a special place that is also very unique to it's a restaurant with rooms and i think they were very good at the way that they laid that out that is like we're gonna give you a really amazing room with like an amazing bathtub beautiful but it's a room you know like we're a restaurant and you're gonna come in in the morning and you're gonna see cooks like getting ready for service and like to me i think that is like another example of like something that he has such a point of view i agree with so wholeheartedly that's like you guys are quite similar actually both like tennis too we both like tennis we played tennis there we play tennis here i mean yeah i that's always i've always been like that is such obviously you know how much work went into that but it's a singular thing you know that place the kind of antithesis to a lot of this sort of like more european american style of hotel is like i i've always been obsessed with japan as you know most chefs always are but i think i've also always been obsessed with like that style of hospitality that i think is also very similar to like this sort of scandinavian style hospitality too that's a little bit like we're here if you need us have you done a whole bunch of ryokans around japan so i actually i have only been to japan twice and the last time i went was like for an extended period of time i went with a friend like in this group it was like a sake trip so we went to visit all these breweries and we didn't really stay anywhere you know remarkable we were just like in these business hotels and kind of going through and every day we go on a day trip to a brewery but we have an investor of the restaurant who was like you have to go stay at this one ryokan in kyoto that is not really a hotel it's just this house he's japanese and he was like to understand japanese kind of hospitality you need to go see this place because i think you'd really you know find it fascinating i like blocked off the day i was like guys i had another hotel i was like i'm just doing this for one night i want to go like experience this and it still is the only real kind of i've stayed in and it wasn't even really one i would say i was the only person staying there you know i think there was something like beautifully uncomfortable about it um you know obviously like you're sleeping on the floor and like that level of slight uncomfort but like i think something that i i really do like about you know personally i don't think i could pull it off in a lot of ways but you know is this kind of like it's like you're in my house you know like you we have to work together here right but everything that you're going to get is going to be amazing i think it really like i was like so grateful for like everything and i was very like you know like respectful of the house and everything and it all even felt like i had a i remember i had like a supposed to get like a zoom call with like these lawyers because we were like negotiating a deal and i was like this feels wrong to do here you know like and and it was a true vacation even for one night in that way where i like felt like gross looking at my phone and i like right just read and it was actually this like really special like i think it was sort of being in a space where someone is so committed that it forces you to engage a hundred percent is that kind of where you got some of that inspiration for what you're doing now yeah i mean this easiest way that i could describe like what we cook right now is it's like the sourcing of ingredients is something that i've always learned from being in california like this like aggressive commitment to sourcing and farming and and all of that and like sort of the flavor combinations the i think what i learned in scandinavia that i bring in is this sort of like expanding on that a little bit further like you know i always say like my comparison to is california cuisine is you take a peach and you put it on a plate scandinavian cuisine is you take a peach you go how can i make this a little bit taste more like a peach and in new york you have to do that because sometimes the peach that you get is not as good as the one that you pick off a tree you know what i learned in scandinavia is you deal with seasons you deal with it get it got too hot this isn't good anymore in in california you have this you know line and like every once in a while something goes bad but like when one thing goes bad something else is perfect you know the asparagus just got bad because it all got starchy but now there's cherries right here things just get bad and then nothing else is good you know and so you have to manipulate products to a certain extent and i think that's really what i learned there i think what i really learned from even just you know the couple times in japan is how important and is, I think, something that both California and Scandinavian food just took from Japan, because also, like, growing up in California, all I ate was Japanese food. Really? Yeah, I mean, that's literally, like, all I would eat growing up. Japanese and Mexican food was like that. To me, that is California. What I think that those places, you know, took from Japan really intensely was that none of that matters unless you can present it correctly to a guest, and how important that presentation is. And not just the presentation, but the, you know, the way you organize the meal, you know, the sort of kaiseki, you know, how you start here and go here and go here. And, you know, where I think we've landed with Kobe, like, we got rid of this, we had an eight-course longer menu, and we got rid of it because no one really wanted it. They wanted this other way of eating. And then we did a four-course menu that you could add on to. And all of a sudden, 90% of the time, you're like, Yeah. 90% of our room is doing the menu. It's the same way where it's like everyone right now is eating a set lunch. That's, like, the whole new thing in New York is a set lunch. I love a set lunch. You get a tray with all these little bites and things. And, like, to me, that was this thing I really took back from Japan. It was just, like, it's so important the way that you deliver, like, portions and things to guests. And that is where there's so much intention. I would say one of my big references for, like, the a la carte version of, like, Cove was I'd go to the restaurant Omen a lot downtown. Sure. And I'll always get, like, we'll always get, like, the cod and this rice. And then we'll always get an agarashi tofu. It's like what Odeon is to, like, American downtown dining. Yeah. Omen is to Japanese. Yeah. But I always say it's, like, there's nothing I love more than when you're eating this thing and they bring over the agarashi tofu and they bring, you each get a specific, unique bowl. And a spoon to share it. And it's, like, that little bit of attention that's, like, this is not going to be good unless you get the broth with it. So we're going to bring you a little side bowl and split it into it. That intention, I think, is something that so many restaurants miss. And I can make, you know, this delicious dish with this delicious sauce. But if you take a scoop off the top and you put it on your plate, that's what I do believe is valuable in tasting menus is being able to control these portions. If you're trying. If you're trying to get across a very, like, nuanced sort of flavor is you need to get the wasabi with it. You need these exact amounts. And I think that that's where Japan has been so good at, like, you know, being like, oh, you want to split it? Here's, like, a tray and you get your little pickle and this and this and this. And it's, like, it is a tasting menu in a way. But it's just the way that you're actually, like, experiencing it is not the Euro, you know, ending on a meat course, you know, is kind of, like, big thing. And I think that we're, you know, every day I'm trying kind of asking myself, you know, what is the New York omakase, you know, like, or, you know, what is that? And it is speed. And it's why omakase works really well here. Like, people really still love that. And how do you, without becoming a full Japanese restaurant, how do you take those influences and, like, give people that correct experience? Well, like, for Japanese restaurants, they're obviously so related to the space, right? Yeah. And the way that the interaction happens with the kitchen. But also that you get all of these different vessels, ceramics that have a specific purpose and spoons and all of those things. I'm interested in the way that you find things. You know, I think you're as curious about interiors and design and spaces and how they interact with food and how they're a personal expression and point of view. Yeah. I mean, I think to me, like, we've talked about, it's like, I see restaurants as a sum of everything together. And as I started to get more into design, even, like, being able to design spaces that didn't, you know, gem home and even gem wine were, like, less about me cooking this food. It was more about how do I create a space that achieves this kind of vision. That's the thing that I love the most is it's curating, you know, a restaurant. This episode of Traveling Through is sponsored by Capital One. Capital One cardholders are passionate about unforgettable experiences. Together, we partner to connect these curious travelers to world cultures through expert-guided journeys. From the peaks of Machu Picchu to the grand architecture of Vienna, these once-in-a-lifetime trips take you somewhere truly off the beaten path. Through Capital One Entertainment, eligible cardholders can book exclusive experiences and so much more, all while earning elevated rewards. Saver cardholders earn 8% cash back, and Venture X earns 5x miles. Thanks to Capital One, your dream getaway. is one step closer. Who was the biggest influence on you around your design aesthetic or finding things? I think it really was this time that I spent in Europe. When you start to be places that feel incredibly, like, comfortable, starting to, like, identify what those things are that make you feel comfortable and then expanding on that even further, starting to understand where those come from, you know. And so I just being in Copenhagen, you're like, oh, like, home. With design, you go to the design museum, you start to, like, and I was not someone that, like, as a child was like, I wasn't, like, into architecture. Like, I carried off food. And then, you know, I kind of realized that, but I always loved plates and these things that went around it. And then you start to think about building a restaurant, you have to design it and kind of all this stuff. And so I obviously was always around it. And you think about it in a restaurant. You think about the chair you're sitting in. Even if you're not, you don't know who makes it. Now, unfortunately, I know who makes everything. So it's. It kind of becomes this unfortunate. It's a pathology. Once you start, you can't go back. You can't go back. Yeah, it's. You understand the price behind it as well. In this trip, I had this sort of very random invite from someone that I knew from California to go cook in Belgium at Dries van Noten's house for a period of time. And, you know, it's funny. I was 16 years old. I had no idea who this person was. And I was just kind of like, free place to stay for two weeks? Like, that's great. It was so wild. I think what was such a unique thing about that time was I'd come from. It was almost like you could say that I'd just spent a month starting to think about design. I read that you worked or got to know Axel Verdot as well. Like, that was kind of insane. So Dries van Noten and Axel. Axel, if anyone doesn't know, is like, you know, the. I don't want to say iconic, but really iconic Belgian designer. Yeah. Met Axel and I've met him many times. But I actually met this woman, Barbara DeBelder, and her husband, Daniel, who. They're very close with Dries, and she's Axel's head of design. And they have this amazing property. Everyone there has these amazing properties. But they're all very different, you know? Right. And I think in this trip, I started to learn very different types of luxury. And, you know, they have this house that's all built from fallen trees. On their property. Like, all the walls are full chestnut, like, 24-inch just, like, planks on the walls. And it's a very amazing opportunity I had to understand both staying at Dries' house, which is this sort of maximalist, you know, prints everywhere, like, showing you, you know, the thread counts, the colors, the, you know, how that can feel so amazing and so special and. But still with, like. There's, like, such an elegance to. There's such an. Well, it's never over the top. Right. You know, it's, like, it's. The thing that he didn't put on the wall is what makes it all so special. My boyfriend says my style is quiet maximalism. Yeah. But, like, when you start to learn about, you know, the way that you're seeing someone's personality. But then also the same thing with going to his other house and being, like, I don't know if anyone has ever stayed in a room that is 100% hardwood chestnut. That has never been oiled and has just been worn in throughout the years. And the softness of that. And when you. And that's, like, also the same thing as Japan. It's, like, when you start to understand these, like. It's just a piece of wood. But there's such an incredible amount of luxury to the grain of it and the, you know, these little tiny details, like, you know, all of the doorknobs in their houses are fallen acorns. And I think what I really learned there, too, is. I think the biggest thing that. Kind of like you're saying, like, that Belgium is really good at is knowing context and design. Understanding that you can't do the same thing everywhere. And I think that is something that Scandinavian, you know, classics or, you know, Scandinavian modernism was less of because it was all very much so just kind of built new and, like, was very, like, clean lines. Like, had these very rigid. Which is also Scandinavian in a lot of ways. Like, very rigid. Very rigid mentality that I think the Belgian is a little bit more like, I went to Japan and I bought all these amazing ceramics, but how do they fit in my neoclassic house? Right. And I think that is something that I have really brought into, like, how I look at New York. That is, like, if I'm in this space in the Lower East Side or in this brand new building or whatever, like, I can't bring the same thing everywhere because it needs to make sense in the context from the tableware, Where are you finding all of the things for Gem Home and your house like are you a market goer like antique stores yeah i mean i'm kind of we've we've scaled back a bit of the antiquing because i honestly don't have time anymore to do it i but you love it i love it i love an auction i will like bring back full suitcases anytime i travel of things i mean i've like obsessively i think being in belgium and copenhagen started going to these flea markets and kind of buying stuff and that was part of where gem home came from was like i need to offload some of this stuff you know you go through these phases and like i i'm in a new phase again of like i think once you go to all of these thrift stores and flea markets and you start just seeing the same stuff and knowing how you know it's like you start to get your taste starts to like refine refine refine and it's like i used to go it's so funny i think i used to go to anytime i go to new flea market thrift store i would leave with a suitcase and now nine times out of ten i would leave with nothing because i have so much also right and you know i think i've gone through the phases of i bought all the boats and i bought all the airplanes and i bought yeah tell me about the boats and the airplanes what what's that i just like i don't know i i went through the and now you know i've gotten rid of all the boats like oh really it's i love buying like exactly you're saying like buying that thing because i'm like this is something really cool letting it ride its wave and then when it when you don't it's like the classic when it doesn't spark joy you get rid of it and like i went through a boat phase because it's like you go to these antique stores there's boats everywhere and they're they're kind of cool and like you know i started to do that it was i liked it and then you know i found all these weird airplanes and recently i was buying every i bought all these photos of the zeppelin like all these really beautiful antique photos of this of like just blimps and so i just have like 40 photos of these blimps for me another thing is it's like i buy these things because i'm like one day i will have a bar that wouldn't it be cool if in the bathroom it was just photos and blimps and i have that idea so that's always in the back it's always i don't want to open a blimp bar anytime soon but i was like a bar called the zeppelin yeah the zeppelin that's cool exactly like it's like you have these like uh-huh you see an object and it inspires an entire like the gem wine space was entirely inspired by this one vintage boat and then how do you build a space around it and i'm like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know how to build a space around it and that was like a real moment that i think i had in design that was very like around these objects that i found unique and i think now it's a little bit more i think focused on the craft of them and less of like it's like the quality of the object is is really what i'm like obsessing over now you know how are you how are you finding that out you just know because you i think it's just like as you keep buying things it's like you start to it's like i'm talking about like the plank of wood on the wall it's like you start to really look at what you keep going back to and what i keep going back to is this like very high quality of less things but higher quality of the ones that are there so that that one boat maybe that you have or that one you know beautiful vase on a table is like you've allowed everyone to focus on it um what was like the most exciting day at a flea market or auction house fee i actually just recently had a pretty pretty big oh yeah we're gonna you're contradicting yourself now because well no i'm i'm actually so i there's just a point it's a disease you'd never queue it up but in this very way where my apartment i moved in with with my girlfriend we kind of both brought these things and and it was much larger apartment so we kind of you know just put everything together and it's always an ever-changing how do you lay out your literature whatever so there's a lot of things just kind of were like you know a coffee table that i built it and i've always been waiting we recently got a van for the restaurant for like we have small farms we go back and forth part of the reason i've always wanted a van too is that i could actually buy furniture and i found this auction website and i have always had an obsession with old growth pine furniture because it looks unlike anything new because you just can't buy pine like the axle on your horse furniture where it's like it's a shade of it's a tone that is impossible to achieve with any current type of wood so it's always been an obsession of mine and i essentially found all these pieces that were exactly you know this like old belgian coffee table that's all in new york in connecticut okay and they just did these like two weeks of and i was just going crazy and i bought like two chairs a coffee table a bench and another bench and i like almost like black blacked out bought all this stuff and then went well i don't i have all this furniture and and so then i immediately the next day sold all of my furniture on facebook marketplace i was just like offloading now it was such an amazing feeling of when it all landed there that's that's what i'm always looking for is that like my girlfriend like the table came in it was a little too tall and i was like so upset and so i like set up a saw and cut it down and it's like that feeling of when it all lands it is like the truest sense of like calm in my brain because i'm like i have the vision in my head and when it actually is achieved and that's that's always been the goal of the flea market or whatever this thing that completes your vision you know and sometimes you go and you buy these random things and i always have such aggressive regret when they don't all come together come together you know but yeah it's those those times of like i was on a huge antiquing trip like all the way through the coast and found this amazing thing and i was like oh my god i'm gonna buy this i found this one boat it's like framed in this thing this crazy antique dealer and it just like i was like this is this this is the center of gemline is this and then you know you expand upon that what are the colors of the ship and how do you keep doing that and that's sort of like that's what i've always loved about it it's the same way i love going to the farmer's market you know it's like it's the same sense of discovery right that you can build something around this narrative and i always have these you know points that i really look for and i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like towards of like when will i feel that it's not done but that i could like take a take a breath um and how everything has to fit together in this way that's i can tell you that's never gonna happen it's never gonna happen but i do think there's it's important to have those visions of you know intention and i think that's what bothers me honestly about when people use the word curation is that curation without like prop like true intention is not curation you're just collecting and i think that i go through phases where i'm just aimlessly sort of getting things and then something clicks and that is when i actually find that you know you can actually create something really special and i've gotten better at not getting frustrated in the periods of just like trying to whether it's working out a menu flow or a dish or even cove like right when we opened we've changed like four things but for example right now it actually does feel the closest to like settled because the vision for the food the ceramics the service the space are as close as i've ever wanted them to be but how that happened was i created one and then i had to adjust everything to to find this correct level i'm never like trying to be like what is the flynn mcgarry project it's like what is this thing in my head that i want to see it's it's like a very kind of ritualistic way of thinking about everything is like it needs to all land and if it's not i kind of spend the entire like with my like new living room thing it was like i bought all the furniture and then i just kind of it was in a corner and then i spent the entire week like going about my week but in the back of my head being like every like 20 minutes it'd be like what am i doing that and then i'd be like oh my god i'm you're very open to talking about your influences and evolution right for someone so high profile and under scrutiny and forgive me for saying this at your age you have like an astonishing level of like security in in yourself thank you but seriously where did i mean it's probably a personal question but where does that come from how did that happen i think kind of like having always had that i think it's kind of like i think it's kind of like i think it's kind of like i think scrutiny and it just makes you so much more comfortable even in failing and like even in making some bad you know ideas and having a vision is what got me this far and like sticking to it but i also think that a big thing about kind of doing anything young is that there is no blueprint and as much as i have tried to find a blueprint or talk to people to give me some sort of like insight it was always met with like you've gotten to where you are in such a unique way that i cannot give you any advice right and i think that gives you a sense of security because you know it's like the security of there is no security right and like i think that's just what i've always felt very comfortable in that's like even in my career like i feel like i went into it very like i want every accolade and that isn't how it has really gone and i think so that what that's what i'm trying to do is i'm trying to figure out how to do that I mean, because I didn't know you when you were tiny. I like, you know, in an interview with the New York Times when I was 15 was like, I want the best restaurant. I want the best restaurant in the world. And then you start to even realize that, like, I think something big that I realized is that any, you know, my upbringing, my saying that as a child, my being in the public eye deeply affects the way that people see what I do now. And there's nothing I can do about that. I could sit here and be upset that they're not taking me seriously because they're always going to mention that I was, you know, a child chef or whatever. But they, I mean, the amazing thing is, is that they are. Yes. I mean, the fact that you've had that trajectory is like pretty improbable. Yes. And I'm not talking about you being so young, although that is the obvious thing. But the turning it to actual, like, critical. A claim is not what should have happened or what was likely to happen, if that makes sense. Yeah. I mean, I think what I've learned a lot is that, like, the barometers for success in this industry and also for myself are very different than, you know, they were also when I had these initial ideas. It was 16 years ago. The world is very different right now. And I think that, you know, this sort of, like, commitment to a vision is really, like, what I've appreciated to kind of keep me going, keep the spaces going. And, you know, our partners and everything have been incredibly, like, helpful behind that. But I think that being able to have the wins not be getting on the 50 best or whatever. Sure. But to be that I had this vision for this menu or for this. And when those, you know, you have that perfect service that sort of happens, it allows me to really keep going without sitting there going, oh, you know, why didn't we get a star last year? Why didn't we get this? It's like, you know. And what I've started to learn that I think is really interesting is that these things have actually created success in very different ways. You know, the way that we even, like, all the design side and the way that we do events. Because of our space is so different than, like, if we had this restaurant that was so focused on the food. Like, I think that's what I mean. Like, it's obviously slightly scary sometimes to be like, there is no blueprint for, like, what I want to do. But it's also kind of very freeing to sort of. Well, and you take bits and pieces from around the world, right? That's the power of travel in your. Yeah. Is there anywhere else you would open a restaurant? And I'm not saying, like, oh, I'm going to open one in Vegas or I'm going to open something in California. If there was a dream place. Yeah. Is there a place that you would go? Actually, I'd love to have to run a restaurant. I don't think I would ever open a standalone restaurant anywhere else. I do think, you know, if I were to ever open, like, this kind of hotel kind of larger project. Everywhere I go, I kind of think, like, OK, where would this make sense? And, you know, I do think I do often think about, like, Northern California a lot of ways because I do think that. Like, obviously, very nice place to live, very nice place to, like, cook and do all these things. I think in the same way that I believe that there's a goal of my running restaurants in New York is to, like, show people there's a different way to do this. I think I have a very similar in terms of hospitality and hosting in California. That's like, guys, there's a whole other world out there that is very different than, like, what California has been doing for a while. That I think would be unique to do someday. I'm not done living in New York. And I obviously, like, have businesses and I'm very focused here. But I think in terms of, like, locations, my question is always, what would I do there that would add a specific voice to the city or to wherever it is instead of just homogenizing? I always have had the joke that, like, if I were to ever open, which I don't think I would do at this point, but if I were to ever, like, move. Back and open something in Copenhagen, I would open, like, a, like, squirrel. I would open, like, a proper, like, L.A. cafe in Copenhagen because they don't need a restaurant that's, like, New York. They have all a lot of them, you know, like. Well, you'd have plenty of opportunity for fermentation, but I guess that's a bad joke. Yes. But if you're thinking about, like, yeah, there's these waves of interest. New Nordic, like, is there, is there a region that you don't know that you're intrigued by from a food perspective? I've always been very fascinated by, from afar, from South America, honestly. I think. You're talking Peru or. Yeah, I think just, like. Argentina or. Argentina. I think there's a lot of, like, those similar flavors that I really like. I think my hesitation in a lot of ways for a lot of places to, like, explore is. Like, I obviously don't have that much time to travel anymore. Right. And that, like. I almost, like, it feels rude to go somewhere for, like, three days. You know, it's like, I want to, like, if there's something that I really want to immerse myself, it's kind of like, I put it on, like, a one day I will. Well, what's on the one days? South America. I'd love to. I honestly would love to spend. Like, I've obviously gone to Italy. You know, it's so funny because I was. You know. I've talked to food people often and they default to Japan and Italy. Yeah. Very often. Like, they're always the two constants. I mean, to me, I love Italy. I love Italian food. I did spend, I spent, you know, a month in Calabria with a friend of mine. Yeah. Because he was, like, rediscovering his ancestry. And I was just like. That's where. I did a feature for Condé Nast Traveler about Calabria. The opening line was, but why? Yeah. The other Italians would say, but why? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was what most people said when I was, like, going to this random place. And, like, I had the most amazing food and the most amazing time. I think it's one of those places where it's just, like, it almost overwhelms me with how much there is to know. And going an hour from one place to another. 15 minutes. 15 minutes. Yeah. And it's very similar to, like, even, like, Basque region. Uh-huh. These are places that, like, I almost, I'll, like, almost book a trip. And then I'm, like, I can't do it. I can't do it all in two days. Mm-hmm. And, like, I need, these are places that I, like, I think anywhere that I feel would change the trajectory of what I'm doing, I'm very hesitant to even starting. Really? Yeah. That's so interesting. Unless I have the time and attention to fully give to it. I mean, I went a few years ago to Portugal for a week, which is, that's my, I could do a week somewhere. Yeah. And that is enough. But I get one week off a year. Right. Almost. You know? Right now. Right now. That's going to change. One day. Yeah. So that's where, yeah, I put them all on the little, the little, little board. We, like, started in Porto and kind of drove all the way down. And for the next six months, I only cooked, like, Portuguese food, essentially. What was it about Portugal that just, like, caught your imagination? The way I thought. I thought what was so special about Portugal was how, it's very specific, but how cold the water was. Yeah, of course. Cold water fish. And that you're having cold water fish in this sort of southern. Yes. Kind of. Yes. For sure. Atmosphere. It felt like something that I could bring to New York. Right. And so that's where I came back and I was like, I look at clams in a different way. I look at, you know, lobsters in a different way. And that was something that, like, you know, we did a menu at Gem that was literally, like, the Portuguese seafood menu. And it was, like. Six months of just, like, obsessing over, like, pork and clams together. And this sort of, these combinations that still are how we, you know, it is a huge influence in the food. And, you know, I've, I don't think I've ever eaten more crabs. And, like, I just became obsessed with crab. And now we literally never have a menu without crab on it. But also just understanding the, like, the, you know, breadth of different types of clams. There goes our crabs. And how, you know. Right. One dish would require this type. And one would require this type. And how I want to eat a Dungeness crab like this. But I want to eat, you know, all these different things. And I really love just, like, the balance between the coast and, like, you know, kind of, like, how quickly it becomes, you know, caldo verde. And these kind of, like, hearty sort of things. And, yeah. I mean, I think anywhere that feels that immersive is somewhere that I'm. It's the same thing where I, like. Now I will not. I will refuse to go back to Japan unless I will go for, like, two weeks. And if I go back. It's funny. I talk to my girlfriends every day. And I'm, like, I'm not going to go back and do, like, two days here, two days here. Like, I would go back and do, like, two weeks in a region to try to understand it better. And I think that's where. That's why I always go back to. Frankly, like, that's why I keep going back. Like, I like going back to the same places to, like, try to understand them. More entirely. And then it's always nice to, you know, pop somewhere here and there. But I'm very cautious. okay so we ask um all of our friends who come on here just some similar questions so where's a place that you always feel at home it's funny what we're talking about i always feel at home if i'm anywhere near the pacific ocean very cold oceans and they really make me feel i grew up literally like steps away from the beach and that is always what brings me home and most out of place i loved going there but i was in madrid in the summertime and i just like did not know what to do with myself yeah oh also i was i was in emilia romagna in july in a heat wave and i was just like my i'm not built for this no like we don't we don't have the skin no summer no and i as much as i love it it's like i'm like i keep being like like oh my summer vacation is london you know like these places that are temperate climates i i appreciate it fair enough where's a place that you would always return copenhagen and where's a place you'd never go back i don't think there's anywhere that i would never go back to come on as i've spoken about i'm very specific with where i go and travel there's airports that i'll never go back to if i could never go to an airport ever again that would be yeah there's there's you know there's ones that i really the the layover in um manchester was one of the you know actually i don't think i need to go back to manchester i'm okay okay we'll leave it at manchester what's your favorite hotel this is a very hard one i think in its true kind of singularity there's a hotel called duniel it's in like normandy by the people that have septim i went for like three days and it's that perfect balance of like it's so tiny it's where you know your cell phone doesn't work there it was the perfect perfect you have to stay for two nights and they give you this menu at the beginning like you need it's two menus you need one today like one tomorrow and it was just like the most perfect food for what you want like being in the countryside there's just a fridge with like some of the most amazing bottles of wine ever made that you just can grab they i remember the first day i got there i got a i was hungry and i was like oh can i get the salami they bring out a salami and a knife and it has your room number on it it's like a hang it up so if you just want a couple slices come back down the next day and you take your salami back down take a couple more slices this is going to be a killer for you a taste i'm not going to say favorite obviously restaurant taste meal that is memorable to you there's a restaurant a little bit outside kyoto called tempura matsu um that i think is the the meal that i've had where i left and it was a really good meal i think it was a really good meal i think it was a really i just felt like actual bliss and it's there was nothing wrong there was nothing i could even like complain about there was nothing that i was like and it was there it was just like actually airtight what about um market or shop there's a strip it's literally the highway kind of on your as you're on your way from paris to like loire valley what i did was i was in the car and i typed in brokant and you just start to see there's just like 20 of them in a row that was one of the best days i've ever had just discovering that you're like go in and it's like a warehouse and then there's another one 20 minutes further down the road i think for anyone that loves antiquing that drive is like there's no good restaurants around it unfortunately but you don't have time to eat you'll survive shopping exactly museum cultural institution there's this place that a friend brought me called the rudolph tegners museum outside of copenhagen that was this one guy who made all of these insane like gigantic sculptures of people and he essentially created his own museum for his own work and he's not like a super famous you know the him creating his own museum is what became famous of it but you see photos of it and it looks cool but when you're actually in the space the scale of these pieces are so like kind of like jarring and you're in this like it's like a tiny nothing town and there's like this cool little park around it but it's literally this guy just kind of built his own museum and like obviously there's so many amazing museums in the world i think what is special about this one is that you're never you're not gonna see these pieces anywhere else you know it is like made by this one person those are always museums i love like someone's house someone's house museums yeah very some of my favorite as well it's actually not so far from like the finuel house like okay kind of do a back-to-back cool okay this is this is a a kind of questions that we ask everyone and you just need to remember that you don't own a restaurant in new york city so you're it's you're completely unencumbered by real life um so where would you spend a weekend week month a year so weekend i know i'm pretending i don't live in new york but i would say weekend honestly montreal is one that you could go with one reservation and by the end of your meal your entire weekend is planned and everywhere you go they're like they sent you and they send you a thing cool that's every time i've gone it's been not even just me if you're not in the industry they do the same thing there what about week i think i would spend a week in copenhagen i think that's like the perfect amount of time to see everything there and especially in the summer it's like one week you might get no rain and then there's always gonna be rain and then you're like oh the following week and what about month i would spend a month in kyoto i think just kind of really immersing myself and finally year i would spend a year in new york it's the it's the uh nothing feels better than completing the year in new york and doing it all over again fair enough okay so the last thing that i ask everyone um is what are you traveling through right now i think i'm traveling through my own space my own spaces i'm i'm i think being forced to stay like by just having opened a restaurant and kind of like being here i'm both traveling through like new york on my weekends trying to like enjoy moving around but also frequently like re-looking at my spaces and trying to feel as though you know they're always evolving oh well i think that's the perfect point to end so thank you friend this was great you