FKA TWIGS Talks Stans, Eusexua, Seduction

- Do you know what the show's sign fell to? - Yeah. - Okay, all right, have you seen a movie before? - A movie, sign fell. - A movie. - A movie. - Yeah. - In my life. - I don't know, 'cause these thoughts were popping into my head while I was doing research. I was like, she may have not seen a movie before. - Yeah, I've seen a movie before. - Okay, all right. We got that out of the way. - The sky. - What do you mean I'm-- (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ Very, very, very true ♪ ♪ Oh, my, very, very true ♪ ♪ Oh, my, very, very true ♪ ♪ Oh, my, very true ♪ - Hello, and welcome back to the Adam Friedland Show, Adam here. First off, I'm doing Helium Comedy Club in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In about two weeks, February 19th to the 21st, there's some tickets left, load ticket warning, I believe. The following month, I'll be doing Helium Comedy Club in Portland, Oregon, noticing a trend. March 27th to the 29th, it's a great club, very fun room. Finally, the Netflix is a joke festival, Regent Theater, Los Angeles, California, May 9th. They've added a second show. The first one, they're only single tickets left. They said it was a tremendous-- they booked a second show for me. Also, I'd like to thank our members for supporting us here on youtube.com. Please, guys, support the show. If you like the show, it's five bucks a month. You get early access to all of our episodes. And if you join at the second or third tiers, you'll get your name and the credits of our show that you see today. If you'd like to join the Friedland Family Foundation, you can do so by clicking the join button here on YouTube or by clicking the link in the description below. Also, we have a Patreon, if you prefer to support us through Patreon, there's a link in the description. And also, there's merch. AdamFriedland.show. Check it out. Great crap. My guess this week is Grammy Award-winning artist, FKA Twigs. Congratulations to Twigs on the Grammy. She got, was that Sunday night? Huge. Big one, front of the show. Listen, guys, you've seen the intro before. They're the most popular part of the whole show. They are. People watch the intro, turn off the fucking interview. Which really hurts my feelings. But it's that Caleb Magic, it's that Thomas Magic, it's the energy of this room, it's the CRT television. Listen, it sucks. This week is sucked. Honestly, this year, no. It's just crappy what's going on right now. And not that that's an excuse for us not doing our work, but it's just, I don't know. Nothing, we didn't feel good. We're all in a crappy mood. And we're seeing people getting shot in the head on TV and stuff, and it's fucked up. There was a silver lining. That correct? At the 11th hour, we got an assist from probably the most unlikely of sources. And he had a brilliant idea to tackle the subject tastefully, so without further ado, check this out. Let's break down this idea from the top. So there's a new group that we're starting. Just explain it to me again. And it cools us fire. You should try it, if I were you. You should try it. Well, that's a failure. I don't even-- you might have one about a fire. Immigrant relations expert, or something. Executive, yeah, OK. Is a fire or the opposite of ice? Yeah. And then how does it relate to Game of Thrones? And you're recruiting, you're recruiting for fire. Yeah. You're going to-- and the way you do the qualifications for ice, you're going to make the qualifications for fire tougher. And make it tougher by just like another minute to something stupid. Oh, so you have to run a mile and have in 13 minutes instead of 14? Yeah, because some fire is tougher than ice. That's funny. That's funny. Oh, and it's like Game of Thrones. That's why it says fire and ice. What's the whole point? And Westeros is what? Washington, D.C. I think this is good. And the north-- and the north is Minneapolis. Minneapolis, which is freezing, it's freezing, not thunder. Yeah, but the wall is-- No, no, no, but the wall is Mexico. Yeah, the wall is Mexico. And they're letting in fire people into the country. Yeah. And the firewalkers are good guys. And your mortaries, we are fire. That's funny. Because that's a pun on that tree. OK, I think I'm going to try and do this. Something like this. You there? No, I mean, it kind of makes sense, you know, where? I think it's a good bit. But it takes the sound of ice. Yeah, it's like a satire. It's speaking truth and power. Anyway, Dad, I got to give back some work. I love you, though. OK, so-- I'm going to send you that computer. Yeah. OK. Mazato. All right. All right. I'll say we just do that. Ladies and gentlemen, this next guest was named the God-like Genius of 2022. Is that correct? NME's God-like Genius Award of 2022. And they haven't named one since. Twigs, everyone. [APPLAUSE] She's got cake. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Hi, I see. Hi, thank you. And she brought a whole squad of just some of the luminaries of the fashion industry. You have Anna Wintour, give it up for her, guys. [APPLAUSE] You're Jevil, where it's Prada. You try to make me wear some like a poodle jacket before-- You wanted to wear it. I didn't want to wear it. I had to prize off you. I just wasn't sure if I was dressed cool enough. Because you're like a very-- you're a fashion-- do you consider yourself a fashion icon? Are there any days where you just want to dress like shit? Um, I have this thing called the blues. Yeah. So I have outfits which are all blue. OK, if you're sad? No, if I just don't want to get dressed. Or like Picasso's blues. Yeah, period, yeah. Well, just all the clothes are blue. And it's the same blue, so I can put on the blues and not think about it, and it kind of looks fine. What does it look like? It's like jean jacket, jean shirt, jean pants? No, it's kind of-- It's Canadian Tuxedo. No, it's kind of very worn-in, patched up Japanese leisure. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. I know, I know exactly what that-- my dog is here. You asked for an animal. I did. I feel like-- This is the first time I see has been on the show. My eye see. I've told the story-- we could cut it, but I've told the story to other guests about this dog, but I got her from the street. She was a homeless teen mom. They used her to breed fighting dogs, and then she met a Jewish man. And he changed her life. Sweet home. Yeah, she's really sweet. I mean, when I got her, she was depressed, because they took her puppies away too young. And her nipples were like disted in it from breastfeeding, and she was like just-- she's like come out of Vietnam. But now she's like a-- she's a very happy girl. She's like 10 now. She's changed my life. You have two dogs? I have two dogs, yeah. But like little Ewok kind of things? Yeah, yeah, that crazy. Do you like to take them around, like legally blonde, like kind of situation? They're very wriggly. I mean, before six o'clock, they're very wriggly. And then after six o'clock, they're like floppy teddy bears. You're from the west of England, by wells? The middle, the Midwest. The Midwest. The middle of England to the west. Like Indiana kind of England. My-- yeah, my family's from Birmingham. Are they Villa? Villa. Asked in Villa? No. I feel like you've never heard of sports. I grew up with a lot of sports in my house. I think because of that, I just-- I'm not really that into it. Sports, football kind of scored my childhood, because it was always on, especially the weekend. It would just be-- It's kind of nice, though. Yeah, it's nice. I mean, I think it's-- yeah, it's just-- was always on in the background of my life. But I'm the type of person, like, when I get home, I'll put the TV on for the background noise. Was your town like a Tory town? Was it like Tory country, England? I think so. Well, I mean, it's kind of where I grew up, because it's quite mixed, I would say. Like working class and posh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that where I'm from, there's not a lot in the middle. What's that bring you on? It's like a commuter's town. I was very much working class, but moonlighting as middle class. Because when I first heard of you, you seemed very like high brow, you know what I mean? And then when I found out you're kind of from small town, it was very-- I didn't expect it, right? Yeah, well, my parents are from working class Birmingham. I have my biological dad, who is from working class Birmingham with Jamaican descent, my stepdad, who raised me. Like, active Vita, I was 11, he's like second generation from Barbados, like very working class, first black family in a working class area in Birmingham, and my mum is from the black country in Birmingham, and again, like very just humble, chill beginning. Yeah. Was there like a notion of class that stuck with you from a young age, because I know you went to like a boarding school, like a good school and you were like on scholarship or whatever it's all in England? Yeah, so when I was 11, my mum just got it into her head that I was going to go to a private school, a Catholic school in Cheltenham, and she basically like coached me to get in and I did a lot of like tests throughout my summer holidays to get into this school that had good education. My primary school had said that I wasn't intelligent enough to go to the grammar school, and so my mum was just like how-know, and so she basically like coached me through the summer holidays to go to a private school. Was the grammar school the public school? No, well like I think grammar school is kind of like a better school, but I don't think you have to pay for it, but your school has to agree that your club are enough to take the test, to go to like a free, like aspirational better school, whatever that means. But my primary school wouldn't put me forward even for the test, so then my mum found a school that was, like they had a scholarship, and she put me forward for the scholarship, but the academic test was like a really big part of getting that scholarship. So you were a smart. You seem like you're very, like when you talk about your work, I'm like this is a very intelligent, like way smarter than me person, then I'm going to struggle to ask questions about- Oh stop. No, but like you strike me as like, were you like the girl that like didn't talk and was drawing horses and stuff? A little bit. Yeah, yeah. Were you like, did kids consider you to be like a weirdo or like a freakazoid? I think growing up I had two very distinct personalities, all versions of me, and the one side was like a bit of a weirdo and I was very much into like ballet and opera and- So annoying. How old were you into opera? Honestly like eight, nine. You didn't like the spice girls? I loved the spice girls, yeah I was a big spice girl. Who exposed you to that, like that kind of stuff though? Well, when I was nine I got a singing teacher, a lady called Dorothy, who was the lead singer in Carmen in the carbon garden opera house, and so she started teaching me to sing in Latin and Italian opera, and that was my first training, but it was kind of- If I went to school with you, I'd be like, shut up, but I didn't tell- I didn't tell anybody this, you know, I think- You were embarrassed of it? It's not that I'm embarrassed, like listen, being first of all working class, second of all for a lot of my life from a single parent family, third of all growing up in an area where a lot of it is middle class, upper middle class, keeping up with the Joneses, so already I've stood out because my mom was very free-spirited, very beautiful, like very daring, you know, my mom when she was younger was like really, really iconic. And so already there are a lot of things that made me stand out. Yeah. And they said as well, they just weren't a lot of people of color where I was from. So I think I've always kept a lot of these things secret, and even now, I, you know, it's something that I even battle with now, a lot, people not understanding that side of me, because it's funny, I can kind of swing from doing a performance with Valentino, and like doing something really high-brow and incredible, to then really being so into my roots and where I'm calm and supporting my own community and feeling really like grounded and expressing that part of myself, which is like deeply rooted in culture and also black culture as well, because I'm a mixed race. And these are two equally important sides of me. Yeah. So it's funny, because even in one of my singles I just released cheap hotel, like it's just kind of super viby in the videos, really like Loki and sexy and filled with girls that I would want to hang out with, and beautiful women that look different and express themselves, like looking really cool, and then, you know, I can go from that to then doing cellophane, and I think it's definitely polarizing, but these two sides of me, they're both a part of me. Right, like a lot of your work has, there is a class element to it, I feel like. You worked as a hostess at a strip club, and you were in Burlesque, and then you've kind of created characters around those experiences. How old were you when you moved to London? I was like 16 and 17 when I first started spending a lot of time in London, and I think just before my 18th birthday when I made the full jump. Yeah. Well, you're like one of those, like I just got to get out of this town. You were one of those, right? No one understands me here. Not even. Did you see London as like, how did you view London from like a small town? Was it like a dream? I remember lying on my mum's bed. We had this tiny flat, and I remember lying on my mum's bed and listening to college drop out. Change your mother's wife. Yeah, and I remember like listening to that. We were in the same age, right? I think so, 38. Yeah, yeah. We were 16. Yeah, so I listened to that, and I had a boyfriend at the time who had a car, and we drove up to London and saw Kanye West at the time, and Jay-Z perform, and he performed Jesus walks in London. I remember like we drove all the way up to London and then drove back that night, and it just changed my life, like just hearing Jesus walks, and everybody was just in this venue and and stamping, and it just like was the first time I experienced like the aspiration of life through art and music, like bringing me to tears as, you know, mid to older teenager, and then I went back home and nothing was the same. I was like, I need to make it to a big city, like something can happen for me, but it's not going to happen for me here. We're the same. We're the same guy. Seriously. I mean, honestly, I wanted to move to New York so bad. I thought it was nighttime, 24 hours a day, everyone was the strokes, and I'm like I'm going to move there, or I thought it was sign-filled, where like an ugly Jewish guy could get like a really hot girl, and it turns out that that was kind of true. Yeah, in New York, for sure. I use it. Yeah, what? It's cheating. There's a lot more girls than there are to men in ratio. There's a lot of gay guys. Oh, is that what it is? I just thought there's more women to men. Yeah, yeah. No, there's like a lot of gay guys. So the straight guys to the straight women ratio is, I feel, I mean, it's incredible. It is a place where it stands, I could go out with like a Victoria Secret model. I thought it was just because it was on TV. Do you know what the show sign-filled is? Yeah. Okay, all right. Have you seen movie before? The movie sign-phone. A movie. A movie. My life. I don't know. Because these thoughts were popping into my head while I was doing research. Yeah. I've seen a movie before. Okay. All right. The sky. No, because your interests are so, it seems to me like when you get interested in something, you go all the way in, right? Like, when you got into like pole dancing, you went to like the best pole dancing teacher in the world. That's a thing. I didn't go to the best pole dancing teacher. You went to the. I go to people. No, I just go to people that care. No, like, I mean, for me, like, I go to people that care, so it was important for me when I first started to learn pole dancing that I trained with another woman of color that I trained with somebody that had their own studio that had a passion for the movement. Well, in my opinion, she's the best in the world, okay? That's just one man's ability. Let's go there. Yeah, yeah. Listen, there are a lot of amazing pole dancers, but I think for me, I just wanted to go to a place where I could feel safe and whenever I pick a teacher, it's because they have something, like they have a, um, want to get to the root of the cause and a respect for the community as well, around the world. What kind of music did your parents show you when you were a kid? Oh my gosh, so much. Did you like it? I really did. At times, I felt very embarrassed by it, but now I'm so grateful because there was a lot of acid jazz, jazz fusion, you know, non-verbal jazz, like people singing "Scat Over Beats" or, um, you know. Like the "Scat Man" song? Like, um, no. No, I don't know. "Scat Man". I was thinking more about like Tanya Maria. Oh, she's a scatter? Yeah. I was one of her or a few of them. Tanya Maria. Oh, nevermind. Did you ever, like, having like, uh, Caribbean roots and like, uh, like, be mix-race? Did you ever get into like, kind of like, uh, like dub or reggae or like, kind of, second way of "Scat"? Did you like the "Specials"? I did, but much later. I love the specials. I love the specials. That was more in my 20s, like, for me more in my teens, it was like discovering, uh, bassment and dancehall and, cause I grew up in a place called Cheltenham, which is very white, but then literally like 20 minutes away, there's a place called Gloucester, which is not only got, like, an amazing black community, but also, uh, a Jamaican community. These sound clashing? You went to like, uh, like, dub and reggae? No. Well, there was a club there called the Jamaican club, and it was when dancehall and bassment was huge. And I remember going to that when I was 16, and like, there were loads of rastas there, but it was like people that have, like, just come from Jamaica and have created a community there, and that's when I really discovered myself, and I had, like, a huge breakthrough actually because I had a best friend at the time who was white and blonde and really pretty and super popular and I would really want her to come with me to the Jamaican club and I remember her saying to me that like she didn't want to come and I was like I don't really like 1617 but I'd always like done stuff with her and all of my like white friends in in Cheltenham you know like whatever they wanted to do and yeah like it go I don't know do stuff that my white friends wanted to like go to a skate park or celebrate Easter no I mean that's what they like that what do you mean I'm sorry no I mean like talk about like getting a Tony and Guy haircut or to get GHDs well exactly what is that I don't understand I don't know what these white people are up to no do I no like that would they do GHDs I don't know like get like GHD and go to Tony and Guy and get like layers in their hair and talk about Rachel from friends like I don't know but I was a teenager and I was I was like a teenager and I was just like where do I find myself in this now I remember naively like I'd started going to this Jamaican club in Gloucester and I remember trying to get my white friends from my private Catholic school to go to this club with me because I was like I'm always going to your stuff I was like can you come and I remember I one time I was just like why didn't you want to come with me I have no one to go with and the answer was like that there was just too many black people there in that moment I realized you're different I was different yeah I realized I was different and I also tried to explain my friend I was like I am always with white people in Cheltenham so how you feel when you go to Jamaican club that's kind of how I feel every single day but it was kind of just a bit you know like this I was like do you know what I need to go and go to London and and just like expand my like knowledge of the world and meet more people and being a more multi multi-culture environment so I was like otherwise I'm just gonna die a slow death here like I'm just gonna get crushed yeah and and also get exposed to your cult like your cultural roots exactly yeah exactly yeah yeah um you were in a band delirium uh delirium tremens oh nice like the beer yeah yeah what can I hear do you have any no this is like you have a little bit this is basically pre-internet was it like riot girl it was what I was it wasn't my band it was kind of like my friends band and I would be like the additional backing singer in the band you're like the bez I don't know the bez the guy happy Mondays with the with the tambourine no I was like the backing singer so I do like additional like screaming I guess really oh so you didn't play any instruments no no I would scream like to double his screaming I was a guy was making you scream yeah was it guy girl band or you were the only girl no I was the only girl but I was like an addition I wasn't like the main one you were a weird but popular that's my new decision about you I was she was she was cool I can tell by the way she's talking to me right now she was popular in high school I can tell why you mad at me right now because I don't want these false narratives but I was like the runt of the popular girls group that's where I'd place myself but then outside like if I did dancing or when I'd come to London like that was super chill I'd say I wasn't popular or not popular I'd say that when I came to London and was doing dancing singing hanging out I'd say that like I was just like in the mix like having a good time what about so you would can't you move to London became a dancer yes and you were like in videos and stuff you were coveted from what I understand yeah I was I had a good career as a backing dancer I had a solid I had a career I'm proud of as a backing dancer you dance for Sheeran I dance better Sheeran I'm not sure as a guy sweet when you were in dance though did you like you wanted to be at the front of the dancers do you have an ambition there it's not that I was at the front it was just that like it's it's not that I wanted to be at the front it's that like I was very expressive but I couldn't like fit into the group because you were getting twice as much money when I heard that that's what in my research for what when you're the best dancer I was getting twice twice as much money no I would be proud of that no me to if that was the case when you a dancer you get like a flat-ray usually but are the girls cunts to each other is there a black swan kind of thing happen I never experienced that because you were above all that drama no I just made good friends like I've some of my dance friends from when I was a backing dancer I still like no now yeah I actually hooked one of them up with my piano teacher they just had a baby really yeah so wow yeah one of my oldest dance friends I did a piano lesson in lockdown and I met this guy and I was like you have exactly the same personality like humor as my old like backing dancer friends and then they I put them in a group in a group text and I was like you guys should know each other the worst that can happen is that you'll be friends and they just had a baby how's it feel well my friends sent me a message a little bit your baby to I don't need more responsibilities but you don't need the responsibility but it's your baby but you don't have to do anything it's the best case scenario yeah I guess so but she sent me a message and she was like hi like I'm new in the world and I feel like you've got something to do with me being here just wanted to meet I know I maybe want to cry I know yeah it was really beautiful yeah it was really sweet you should take responsibility I don't need to take like the man who showed up yeah I think it's just nice so you were also like were you supporting yourself at the time you're a young person living the big city yeah well I had a lot of jobs so from when I left home I literally would have like four jobs that's crazy like I've just like run around I was a dancer I was a youth worker I worked in self-ridges and I worked in a bar and I would take any job like I literally remember having this rucksack and it had almost like the different costumes for my different jobs and any shift that came up I would like run around run around and then when I got to I can't remember actually maybe it was like 22 23 or 24 I can't remember what age early 20s I said my stepdad who I'd reconnected with that I was doing all this stuff and I really wanted to make music and I said can I quit two of my jobs for six months I said I'll keep two I'll quit two yeah and will you help me with my rent in London and then he was like yeah because I didn't go to university and I was like very independent from when I was a teenager I'd always make my own money so he was like I'll support you with your rent for six months so you can quit two of the jobs and then with that time you can go in the studio and in that and then I said if in six months I don't get signed or anything then I'll just go and get a normal job and he's supporting me for six months and almost like at the end of that time I then got a record deal transitioning to like music like in the way I've read you describe your process like it sounds like you're almost like a movie director like an author right like there's a visual aspect of a song there's a dance aspect of a song there's the actual song you know there's like there's multiple aspects of the set have you started a song on a like seeing a visual of something or do you start with the chords like that's a piece in question I think like I don't I think I start with the music but if if the song speaks to me visually then I want to finish it so if I get a vision of what the dance could be or how it would be live or a visual or an image that's a storytelling piece to go with the song then they're usually well they're always the ones that make the record are coming out it's almost like you're making a theater piece sometimes in what yeah to some extent yeah say 360 but I think that's kind of the that's sort of the thing I'm coming up against now because obviously I've been doing it for a while I just am trying to figure out what type of artist I am and and I think I'm realizing that the the music industry although I'm very much a part of it and music is the core of everything I do I just don't feel that it's able to facilitate everything really that I want to do so I'm kind of in not like a transitional phase out of it at all because I always want to make music and power albums and that'll always be the number one thing at the basis of who I am but I think I don't think that the way that it works right now is conducive for me making my best work I kind of picked up on that also because like you I guess the 2014 is that right like when you kind of had a breakthrough is that right yeah so that's like a decade in industry that seems as if it's changed a lot yeah what's happened is like in 2014 you broke through like Twitter was new basically yeah there was it was stand culture a thing at that point I mean probably but I don't think as an artist you were fully aware of it existed in letters that you might come across if somebody happened to give it to you or you recognize the same people that shows you know gave that energy has it become kind of a necessity in of an industry at this point like to have you know there's a distance between artists and the consumer and then the internet has blurred that so like I guess like a swifty is like kind of an aspect of Taylor Swift LLC you know like it's become sort of an amorphous blob and it feels like that is like accelerated maybe in the last 10 years is that your experience an unbelievable experience to be a part of have your guys acted embarrassing ever They got pissed at other people. What are they called? Twiglets. Twiglets is cute. Yeah. I think on the whole people that listen to my music are quite sensitive and artistic and creative and I would like to think that they are sort of equally invested in their own creative and dead endeavors and their own lives as they are in my music which hopefully creates some safety and a healthy relationship. I think I've definitely experienced, since you sexual has come out, a different side of fandom and what that could feel like. For me as an artist it's my job to create something and to create it for myself and for other people eventually but to not really care about what people think but now as an artist we're just expected to market ourselves so much and for me that's one thing I really struggle with because the truth is like nobody knows my true personality because I feel like my personality is constantly at gunpoint with social media. That's just not really who I am and I've never really been able to find a way of portraying who I am because truly who I am is not on doing that. Like truly who I am is just in a studio practicing something and getting better at something and feeling happy about that and me monitoring my own incremental advancements in a craft and I can't do that if I have to put it on the internet. So all that's left is for me to try and put my personality on the internet and try and be like cutesy boo boo and try and be relatable and for me personally I've been on a five-year long journey I think it was really probably like after Magdalene where this word like relatable started to come up like with publicist you know I had this like publicist a few years ago she was great she was Northern and she was like do you know what twigs you're so funny you just you just need to warm you up a little bit you know you're so funny if people could just see how funny you were and I was like okay I was like yeah I can be funny you know but it's like this thing at like gunpoint and it's just not who I am and I've seen other people really overcome it I've seen other artists other contemporaries of mine who initially found this thing really awkward and spoke about it and now are absolutely crushing it and they found their niche but with me I just can't seem to find that because I don't want to put the things I'm practicing at online I just don't want to like it's for me and I want to get better at it in the quiet and I want to deliver something when it's a fully rounded thought and so to be completely honest with you like it's kind of a bit of a nightmare to be making work that I really care about and then there's this whole other side which is like for me it's like McDonald's and it just destroys all of the mystery like it just takes everything everything precious and everything sacred away and I look at like us you know other artists and I think wow they're so good at it they're so good at making something feel casual like putting like a phone up and just doing something funny and I don't know how many drafts of that are in there but there's someone looking at that and literally going and saying do you understand what the other side of me I want to counter that by saying that I found that very deliberate decision to be admirable because a you don't create a distinction between your own life and between your career right and I think that like it just seems like you think of your work in a different way where it's like thought out and it and it requires effort in a way that it doesn't feel like a lot of artists have to grapple with right no I think I think a lot of artists now are like making incredible work and really thinking about it I don't want to put myself on a pedestal like that the difference is I am that's very sweet but I think that it's the ability to be able to connect with your your fans and and do this like cutesy boo boo like effortless thing that I'm just not I'm just not good at like I'm the type of person I just want to disappear I just want to put out something and then not think about it and not have to promote it and the thing that I find is is you can't quantify culture you can't quantify the data around culture you can't quantify the amount of people that are inspired by your work who create work based off your work how when you make something it changes the cultural DNA even if ten people see a piece of work that's incredible it might change the cultural DNA of the way that people see I don't know queer people black people political ideas women you know like you can't put stats behind that and so to be able to to say oh this is what success looks like because it's Spotify listeners or awards or likes on Instagram you know or likes on TikTok to be able to quantify the success of an artist by these things to me it's just not like it's not valid to be honest of you it's a mature response to a ridiculous thing because if you think about the things like I've been told by my people I'm listen I'm also one of the biggest whatever pop pop got in America I don't know if you've heard but but like yeah like post pictures of yourself like hanging out and I'm like who the fuck wants to see that but what you're doing is you're like some guys look at his phone and he feels like there's some unhealthy pair of social kind of relationship that he has with me who's a complete stranger so like I did a podcast for a long time and it felt like it was a kind of a friendship simulator for a lot of people and like they'll come up to you and they'll they'll make a joke at you and you'll be like what the fuck are you talking about walk away and they'll be like you know but like in reality like doing this show where I'm like talking to different people stuff it does feel like I can more easily create that distinction where I'm like this is the work that I'm doing and then in my normal life like no one respects me I'm not sure what I mean I love communicating with my fans and I love the back and forth of my fans my fans I mean they're whatever the twiglets and the people that have enjoyed enjoyed my music through yousexual have directly affected created and encouraged me to make after-go after-go is 100% a conversation between me and the people that like yousexual really 100% but it's like a feeling it's like seeing the way that people move on stage to the songs it's about seeing the parts of the songs that they love it's about seeing the looks on their faces when I talk about certain things in my lyrics and me thinking that felt good like I want it but if I did something just 10% in that song I want to take the 10% of that song and blow it up so it's 100% of another song that's the bit that's connected with people making someone dance was feeling incredible it's the best feeling in the world but that's what I'm saying like that type of interaction with my fans and my audience is the best feeling in the world the part that I personally struggle with is shoving myself like Talia down people's throat do you think that you would have made like more money or like something if you if you like we're like you know it's not about money it's about a career of longevity like it's not it's not like you could make millions of pounds one year and then no one will speak about you next year like for me I just I'm really looking forward to getting old for me like people like Martha Graham or peanut bow she'll Laurie Anderson P.J. Harvey like people that have been able to I wouldn't call them old though they're lovely well Martha Graham 22 I'm sorry but um no I'm a I'm a bad I'm terrible I'm just an obnoxion no one likes me okay they do don't say that by yourself I don't know what's the spouse it's true I mean I have one guy Zach the intern is not even here right now he's just let me alone on this and he's the one person that makes me feel safe and you know that midday slump where your focus just dips this is my little fix for that it's super refreshing you just pop it in crack the capsule and boom instant flavor hit it's kind of my secret weapon for staying sharp when I'm working and filming you can even get it delivered on a subscription so you never run out but yeah this one's been my routine recently Lucy dot CEO knows what's up 100% pure nicotine always to back up free Lucy breakers or nicotine pouches with a little extra some her own each pouch holds a capsule that could be broken open to release extra flavor and hydration what's my favorite flavor the mint what's strength do I use the strongest Lucy is the only one that gives you long lasting flavor whenever you need it so you get 20% off your first order when you buy online with a code tafs and if you don't want to wait head to lucy.co/stores to find lucy near you and grab it today and here comes the prime print lucy products are only for adults of legal age and every order is age verified warning this product contains nicotine nicotine is an addictive chemical the wallet I had before Ridge was huge it was crusty it was a leather break that was falling apart I was always one of those guys that had a duct tape wallet um but sometimes it's time to grow up and get a Ridge this is the Ridge wallet folks what I love about Ridge is its unique slim modern design that holds up to 12 cards plus cash it's made with premium materials like aluminium titanium and carbon fiber this is the gold one folks the gold I love gold remember that gold finger gold member over 50 colors and styles to choose from show your wallet off to the camera All Ridge products have a lifetime warranty. 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After you purchase, they will ask you where you heard about them. Please, support the show and tell them that our show say you. This block has its sponsored slash brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace is the all-in-one website platform designed to help you stand out and succeed online. Whether you're just starting out by scaling your business, Squarespace gives you everything you need to claim your domain, showcase your offerings, and with a professional website, grow your brand, and get paid. All one place, that sounds good. Guys, I use Squarespace when I was one time I was walking outside and there was a girl with a macho. She spilled it on me. So I made a website to say, you know, because of their SEO, they had me at the top of a macho girl spill on Google. And I found her and it turned out she was a racist. It was pretty cool. There's a documentary about it. Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place. 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Squarespace. So, you head to go to checkout squarespace.com/tafs for a free trial. When you're ready to launch, use the offer code Tafs to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com/tafs for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code Tafs to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or a domain. But I always think as an artist, I like to create things that other people might not have. The privilege, the time, the ability, the know how to put into words for themselves. So say, for example, something like cellophane, I went through something and then I wrote the song "Cellophane" with a couple of wonderful collaborators and then that has spelt out the words for many people that have gone through a breakup. And that's the type of fan interaction I really love. And that's the type of fan interaction that spars me to make another version of that song or to explore that, that feeling further, the same way that I was saying, when I performed "Usexual Alive", it encouraged me to make "Afterglow". I was very inspired by the reaction to make "Afterglow", and I was also very inspired on "Afterglow" to produce so much more myself and play so many more instruments myself. And because "Usexual" for me was such a well-rounded piece of work that I was so proud of that I created in "Afterglow" I wanted to. I don't know, deconstruct everything that I'd learnt, like deconstruct the beats, play more instruments, use my voice in a different way, subvert the clarity of "Usexual Inter", a hazy, gawzy, muffled, kind of wavy after party of "Afterglow". But that wouldn't have happened if the fans hadn't have given me permission and authority also to do is. It was really a collaboration. You gave them joy, right? Yeah, and then it was a conversation. And also, I think it sounds like you do know what kind of artist you are. No, no, I do, but it's the goalposts keep on changing of what you have to do to be an artist. Just you don't have to post your breakfast. Just make tracks, dude. A hundred percent. My point is, every time you do an album, the goalposts of what you have to do change. So, for example, this era, video podcasts, really important. This era, doing TikToks with other influences, really important. When I first started, when I first started, you would do like a fade interview and a pitchfork interview on a phone. You'd go to, when I first started making music, you would go to your record label, you'd sit there for two days. You'd do phone-ins with pitchfork, the Guardian, Fader, a couple of others. And that would kind of be it. There's no music press kind of anymore, is that what you're saying? There is, but I think the thing is, that is messy. The thing that's kind of bigger is displaying, is like being likable and being relatable. And for me, that's equally as important as the music. And honestly, that's so sweet. [APPLAUSE] No, I mean, I think you're like a serious, I think going like, I never studied your process or your career. And I kind of want to go back to it. But it seems like you have a, there's something in your head that you're seeing, right? Is it difficult to see, to delegate, if like, let's say, if you have a collaborator that doesn't see the thing that you're seeing? I mean, I have an interesting way of working with collaborators that are really talented, but can't see it, is I just want them to do them. And then I'll kind of edit it later. So I just want people to go the farthest they can possibly go with within their vision. And then I like to take it and sort of edit it down for how it fits my perspective. You just want people to have fun, is that you? Yeah, 100%. Is it really fun to be in the studio and make fun of? It's really fun, yeah, it's really fun. I should start a little bit? You should start, yeah. I got it, I have a couple, yeah. But it's not your kind of, it's like more like acoustic, singer, songwriter kind of. That's cute. I like that too. It's really serious, actually, it's not, I wouldn't say cute. Okay. I bet it's very constant now. I have. Have you heard of Bob Dylan before? Yeah. Nice. You heard mep Bob Dylan. Can I go through your phone at the contacts? What kind of. Yeah, who you at? Like what? I just want to see. You have Drake in there? Probably an old number. It's my favorite guy. He's my favorite guy. I don't know my phone. He's the best guy. No, he don't have to do it. I can't imagine. It would have been quite funny, honestly. It would have been funny. There's nothing to hide. Is future the best guy? He's a very professional in his studio. He's a genius. He's a very professional, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He really like, really like delivers on what he says he's going to do. Do you think he'd do a future for the Adam Friedland show? I mean, it's wrong with me. Maybe. I can ask him. Really? Here we go. Do you think he'd like me? I feel like we're kind of a very similar guy. Except I don't do infidel. Yeah. I think you just need to, like, if you ask a question that people finish it and so that. I'm just excited. No, I know it's really cute. It's just hard to concentrate. It's just annoying. You're not annoying. It's endearing. There's an excitement about me. Yeah, it's like a puppy. It's cute. Yeah. Well, IQ wise, especially. Yeah. I think you're smart. Yeah. Yeah. Like an adult dog. No. Like, I don't know your brain just moves quickly. I'll let you finish my future. Tell me more about future. Um, what do you want me to tell you? I, I, I, I, you, you apparently, you guys don't really know. Are we finding? All right. When you entered the industry, were there, like, other, like, more established artists that kind of took you under their wing? Um, not really. You don't have OGs? No. Is it kind of a lone wolf game? Yeah, it's a lone wolf game. You don't have a squad of other, uh, musicians, like, not production people, but, like, other, like, artists? Not really. I've always been quite a lone wolf. I'm really trying to think, so I don't want to exclude anyone's. Milton John never hit you up and was like, I love, I love seeing you do your thing. No, I don't, I don't think, well, actually, do you know what I do, but kind of through someone else. So my, um, personal trainer is married to Jazzy Bee from Saltisoll. Uh-huh. And I'm not like really close with Jazzy B, it's not like we hang out, but through FYI, I've always had a lot of comfort just finding out things about the music industry that I didn't necessarily know. So I'll be on the run of machine. I'll just be talking about something and she'll give me an example about Jazzy's career and then I can sort of-- - So you gossip with your trainer? - It's not gossip. It's more just kind of her looking out for me. Like she calls me like one of the youngest. - Who are your goats? - Like, have you met a goat before? - Prince. - Did you ever like completely break in front of a goat? Did you ever like fuck it? It's so-- I imagine it would be so nerve-racking. - Janna, maybe. - Have you met her? - Yeah. - And you did well? - I think I complimented her too much and then I made her shine. - Really? - Yeah, well she's very gracious. Her personality's very gentle and gracious and I was just like, I love you so much. You're amazing. You changed my whole life. I wouldn't be here every week and I think it was just a lot. - I meant it, so that's okay. - Her bro changed my life. - Yeah. - He's the best of all time. - Mm-hmm. - Can you imagine we shared a planet with Michael? - Yeah. - I miss him so much. Where were you when you found out Michael possibly? - I remember I was when Alia passed away. - Where were you? - I was in pineapple dance studios in the closed shop. - Is that your life? Your dance every day? - Mm-hmm, I tried to. - And you maintain a practice every day? - I mean, not every day because obviously I'm working so much but I always try and move my body, yeah. - Same, yeah, go to work, do a celebrity interview, major pop star, try to figure out if she's mad at me or not. - I'm not mad. - You're pissed at me. - I'm literally not. - So tell me about, tell me about you sex. Like what got you interested in singing about sex? Sex. I'm sorry. That was a bad question. John, who wrote this? - You sex, you isn't about sex. - No, no. - It's an 11 pillar kind of like wellness. - Sexually as a feeling that I discovered that I want to be in more and I wanted to share that feeling with other people. - Has it caught on? Do you feel like people are using you sex? - I think that the idea that we can be our best selves has caught on. I feel that in my shows. I feel like there's an idea that you can kind of overcome everything in your life and be in a feeling of beautiful nothingness, acceptance of yourself, presence in the moment, no ego, no one, just kind of pure human experience. I think that that idea has caught on, yeah. - I did an immature sex thing at the beginning, but what's interesting to me is like from your early jobs is like working in Burlescan and as a host at a strip club, in seeing you perform and like there's kind of a seductive aspect, like you kind of like are seductious of an audience. - Really? - There's kind of a relationship of like a woman on stage or even doing pole dancing or something. - I feel like pole dancing for me is like reclaiming experiences that I went through as a young woman and empowering myself to be in charge of my sensuality on stage and I say sensuality instead of sexuality because as a young girl we go through so many horrific things finding our womanhood. - Yeah, what am I doing? - And so for me starting to pole dance at a time when I'd had like a very big operation I had fibroids and so I had to go through a lot of hospital appointments and doctors and operations to fix my fibroids. And I basically like benign tumors in the uterus, yeah. So it's like very invasive and it hit me at a time in my late 20s where I was very in charge of my sexuality and I had just had a huge surge in my career and then I was dating someone very famous and it was very much like who's that girl energy and I was about to almost like step into my grace and step into my light and step into my power as a star and I had to completely step back and choose myself. - Yeah. - And choosing myself at that point was about breaking down my sexuality and finding strength in it and a power in it which I don't think I had found before in my 20s because I don't think society encourages women to find their power and their sexuality because it's deemed as something that's controversial or dangerous or dirty or all of these things. So yeah, it forced me to take a step back and so then I started martial arts with a sword, wushu and I started pole dancing as a way for me to connect with my body. So for me when I pole dance it's not really for anyone else. - And you're also a dancer too, it's a different kind of dancing, right? - It's very different because it's in the air and it takes like a lot of internal strength and a lot of slow strength and it's big powerful moves but you have to be very present because otherwise you'll fall off the pole and heart yourself. So it's like this beautiful dance between the mind, safety and your body. - You're from the Midlands, right? - Yeah. - You're from like a, you know, you're from like working class kind of a background. But your work seems very high brow, you know? Do you worry that it could potentially make you inaccessible kind of to like, you know? - But I think this is what I mean. - However is that a calculator, I'm sorry? - It just might not like, it just might not hit straight away. To say, for example, you know, like Magdalene was a beautiful, baroque, operatic, real world, real instrumental expression of like, womanhood and pain. And I'm so proud of that project. And when it first came out, you know, although it was very critically acclaimed, like the masses didn't understand at all. - Yeah. - And now, five years later, you know, that feels so much more plausible that an artist can sing opera on a pop song or create something. - Yeah, exactly Rosalia. I mean, it's so much more plausible that that can be a pop song, you know? Or it's so much. - And you're like, you're created it. - No, it's not. - No, no, no, no, no. - I don't think that at all. No, I don't think that at all. I just think that sometimes like, I make the suggestion very early and it allows culture to kind of breathe and make something so beautiful from that, like naive starting point, you know? And I think that in my career, I've been lucky enough to be a part of or start a conversation early. So, right now, I'm trying to think of other examples that even including. - You mean like, you're making challenging work 'cause you want to elevate the work. - I think, I'm not trying to do anything. I think that I am totally okay with making work and it, like, seeding into culture. And it's taking its sweet time because I'm so blessed to have a career now. I mean, I'm 28 and a month or two and I've been doing this since I was probably like 22 or 23 and I'm so blessed to still be here and I'm so blessed to still be making music and what a blessing to be almost 40 and nominated for my first Grammy that centered around music or to have, you know, to be number one, go for your sex, or to go to like, sorry, number three in the UK charts or to win incredible awards at this point in my career. And I think it's just because I've taken my time. And I think it's because my roots go like deep and wide and that takes time. - Yeah, what I see and maybe this is a stretch is that coming from like a working class background, what's clear is like you're a very, you work hard. - Yeah. - You know, you had four jobs before you went into music, you've released consistently for over a decade on probably a two-year album cycle, like a consistent amount of work. Like, do you ever not, do you chill? Like, you don't chill. - Not really, I mean, when I was very young, my stepdad sat me down and he was like, because of the way you look, like you're gonna have to like work very hard, 'cause I wanted to be a ballet dancer, which for me, as a, oh, yes. - I see. - Yes. - Some interrupting. I taught, it's my fault, it's ballet, though. - That's okay. - She's so cute. - She's so cute. - Ballet dancer. - Ballet dancer, there weren't really many ballet dancers that were like black or brown or of color. And so he said to me that if I wanted to do it, I had to work 10 times harder than everybody else. - That is still a work ethic into you? - Yeah. - I have to work 10 times harder. Or any, I think, like brown or black artists has to work 10 times harder. Because we just can't get away with being average. We have to be amazing, we have to sing really well. We have to look incredible. We have to dance really well. We have to be polite all the time. We have to be on our P's and Q's 24/7. 'Cause we're just not given the grace that other people that look differently are, and you do one thing wrong, and it's like wrong, knew it. You know, it's like this energy, right? You know it, 100%, you know, knew she was a wrong one. So I think that I've always lived my life a bit by that. But I'm really not complaining. It's, I think I just get on with it. - Do you think that the music sucks now? - No. - I see chill the fuck out. - No. - She's so cute. - She's at the best. - You know what song she likes the best? - Tell me. - I don't know. - What is it? - She likes smelling pee so much. It's her favorite thing. - That's pretty. - Honestly, do you like bands? - Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah for sure. Which one? Like cocktail twins. Yeah. Shadeza ban. You're in front of the watch. Five minutes left. I know. I know. I got a fact. Do you have a Del's number? Oh no. She's incredible. She's amazing. Yeah. She doesn't have to show her breakfast sandwich, everyone. She's in a different. You saw her, you bro. Come on. Don't feel pressured to feed your. to make your fans insane and then they go to war with Indonesia or something or whatever the hell is going on in the internet these days. I never feel pressure. Although maybe now that I realized we command an army, we could do anything with these people. The twig of twig of it's. Twig of it. That was a good point and I thought it was a good point. I thought. Honestly yet it says applause break here under. Have you ever dated a guy that's ugly? Sure. Really? Yeah. Poor and ugly? What's your favorite song we ever. My favorite song? Ever. I don't really know. I couldn't say that. Come on, we've only got one question left. That was it. What's your favorite song? Look at me have another last question. Okay. Dude, Brexit. Have an effect on your career. Was it harder to get like French instruments? Okay, another question. Do you fuck with Bob Dylan? Have you seen movies? What the hell even is sex? That wasn't good. Okay. Making work about sex in a era where people have less sex. Dude, does it. Say that again? So people have less sex, right? So if they're themes that your music about sex, is it business-wise? You know what I mean? No, another question. Come on. Okay. Down to the one. You're God-like genius award. Does that. Not that one. 2022. You live in fear that something else will get it. We'll you have to go back to being regular. Have you ever wanted to dress like crap? Got that one another way. Come on now. Now we're going over. Oh, is there a difference between sex? Why are you asking those questions about sex? Because you sexual, I don't know, I believe that sounds like more sex. You sexual is not about sex, it just has those letters in it. Oh, that's. So how would I get that out of that? Confusing, huh? Okay, here's a good one. Okay. I got a good one. Okay. When you finish something, right? Like, here's my experience making anything, right? Get a good idea, get really excited, right? And then you try to do it and you're like, I suck, right? And then you fight through that middle stage. Yeah. And you put something together, but if you look, then you have to start the next thing, right? Yeah. You cannot think about it because it will drive your nuts. Yes. And if you look back on something that you've made previously, like, you're like, I would change this, this, and this, this. Like, have you ever, what is perfect to you? Right? Yeah, that's a good question. High five. Is that a good question? Yeah, that's so good. Oh, you said "Ugh." Like, I said, "Low five." I like the rest. Do this. Do this. Do this. Yeah. Like, sniffing. I don't know. That was disgusting. One more. Okay. I think we did enough. What is perfection? Like, have you finished this song? I've been like, this is, this is, this is like, I can't have to sit on the floor. I'm just so exhausted. I don't know. My dog's here. I'm so exhausted. I just have a bad personality. No, you don't at all. Did you want to go in front of the dancers? Did your, did your music suck at first? How long did it take you to make something you thought to thought to suck? When did you start dressing crazy? That's a good question. These are all actual questions. Yeah. Brian Jones is for your town. It's okay. We don't have to ask any more questions. We can just end it here. You want to just chill? We can hang out. What kind of music is your impression of you? Were you suddenly going to do the Drew Horses? Were you less to answer strip co-hosts? Were you first to get hired? Back up dancers? Ed Sheer and Chill? It's okay. Was there black swan type drama? You got paid twice as much? Is that, is that facts? Um, you have, the ID cover and the fader. We talked about that. You have an ambition. Did you want to be famous? Was it difficult? I'm just going to read you all the questions. And if you hear it, one good one. Oh, and then, since you got, I got a good question. Since you've gotten famous, has anyone offered you drugs? Twings, everyone. I see. What are you doing? Your ear? I see. I see. I see. Hey, I see. (upbeat music)