Fixing the Plane While You Fly It - How To Grow On The Go

[MUSIC] In times of rapid acceleration, high pressure, and general uncertainty, the reality is clear. Professionals are struggling. They have become more mentally and emotionally exhausted, less curious, more stressed, and less giving. Adding to this is the complexity around solutions with the overabundance of protocols, supplements, and so-called performance hacks. The end result is leaders are more distracted and have less mental agility, poorer performance, and struggle to be the belief builder and energy multiplier for their teams. We don't want to accept that. Our passion is to help professionals be more. These conversations help illuminate your thinking into sustainable human performance, learning real solutions to improve your energy, focus, and ultimately increase your impact. This is the TIGNUM Thought Cast. [MUSIC] Today's episode, fixing the plane while you fly it, how to grow on the go with special guest Brian Wade, senior performance specialist at TIGNUM. We hope you enjoy it. [MUSIC] Hello everyone and welcome to our bowl around table. Today at our table we have all of you and a great guest. For those of you that don't know Brian, Brian has a very interesting background as a performance psychologist with a specialty in cognitive performance enhancement. He spent many years working with US Special Forces, elite athletes, business leaders and executives, helping them always to become sustainable high performers by creating the right mindset, to really be more aware of the way they think and how they can use the power of their own mind. So today we want to discuss how people doing bold projects can actually grow on the go, can they actually fix their plane while they're flying it? And along the way maybe we'll touch a little bit on burnout, engagement, several other interesting things. But let's jump right in. So I encourage all of you get engaged, create your questions, join the conversation and we'll get it started. So welcome Brian. Hey Scott, thanks for having me. First off, I absolutely love today's topic. Ironically, I just got back from spending a couple of days with some future leaders that actually work for an aerospace company. So today's topic about fixing a plane and being in the air and everything, I think is actually pretty awesome. Yeah, I can just imagine that they would say first off, it's not highly advised to fix planes while you're flying you should probably land. But maybe we'll get to that in our conversation. But you know, I notice Brian in almost every company we work with, they always share with this, they have some huge lofty goal. They're doing something bold, right? It's almost always described as something like we need to do X twice as fast at half the cost with half as many people or whatever that is. And there are so many variations of this, but it always just feels like a huge stretch. So during these hard push times, the phrase they often share with us is, you know, I would love to invest more in my sustainable high performance, or I would love to be able to focus more on making a bigger impact. But I can't fix the plane while I fly it. And that's probably why we purposefully name this session, fixing the plane while we fly it. So what does this mean to you and is it really even possible? Yeah, I mean, one is a great place to start. And I mean, to answer your second question there, is it even possible? Of course, it is possible. But what it really means to me and I think where a lot of individuals kind of go wrong with this is, they have such lofty expectations of what that actually means to fix the plane while they're flying it. You know, expecting massive, massive results off of making these changes or sudden adjustments as they're going. So for me, if I'm trying to coach someone or if I'm having a discussion about, you know, fixing a plane while you're flying it, especially in the midst of like a really high energy push, a big load, a big project, things like that. First thing I always say is lower the expectations a little bit when it comes to fixing it. Because if you are going, going, going at that tempo, then you don't have the time to actually create like the big meaningful change, which is what I think a lot of the folks are looking for in that moment. That's really what they're kind of crying out for is, I have to do something totally different because I need to be totally different. Well, if you're in the midst of it and you're flying this metaphorical plane, you can't become someone totally different overnight. It's going to be those small adjustments. It's going to be those little minor tweaks in what you're doing in the different strategies or habits or choices that you're making. And if we lower the expectations and kind of lower also the standards or the goals in which we're trying to make these changes, that's where I think you'll actually start to see some of that beneficial change over time. Yeah, I think so many people underestimate also the need for preparation. When you get on an airplane, you can see that they've gone through a huge checklist. You know, we've talked before about cockpit resource management. The pilots do a safety check. They have all kinds of safety things built in. The flight attendants take you through a safety brief before you take off. So I think sometimes that for many of our clients, the problem is they're trying to fix the plane while they fly it. But they did a really lousy job of building the systems and creating the habits they needed to be able to do that. So now what they're actually trying to do is fight a little bit of a losing game. Can you maybe talk a little bit about what are some of the things they probably should think of before the plane takes off so that they can be ready to make these minor adjustments in the air? Yeah, I think you're spot on with that as well. I mean, you know, those checklists that you see the flight crew and everything go through. Yes, there's a safety aspect to that. But you can also look at it as just like the fundamentals. Like, are we even ready to get the plane going? Are we even in a place or a rein estate where we can even do this? And I think as high performers, everyone, every single one of us on this call, we have to kind of resist the temptation to just sometimes jump right in. And that's where sometimes our energy and our eagerness takes us, you know, a new project is thrown in our lap. And maybe it could be something where time is of the essence, right? Maybe there is a little bit of a high priority or an emergency kind of underlying theme to it. But sometimes and most of the times is probably more beneficial for us to just take that quick little pause before we even jump right in and go through those fundamentals. Do I have the energy to do this right now? What type of energy am I going to need, right? Like what type of project is this? Where's the fatigue? Where's the load going to come from? How long is this project or this journey going to last? And do I have a plan for making little pit stops along the way? What type of adjustments might I need to make while I'm in the air while this project is ongoing? So I love that analogy of the checklist there, but it's really, am I doing the fundamentals? Am I even in a good place or a good state to even start this project to even get up and get in the air? Yeah, it's so true. It's hard to make micro adjustments if you don't have a plan to adjust, but that is what a lot of our clients that we see do, you know, they end up in the air. And the goals are lofty and they're stretching them. And now they're starting to struggle with fatigue. And of course, the first thing they think is, oh my god, I'm burning out. When in reality, they're suffering from fatigue for two reasons. One, yes, the load is high, but on the other side, they didn't really have a good plan. They didn't have the systems. So I know one thing for me that I found to be really, really important and a lot of our clients share this is the importance of how you start your day in the morning. So what would a great start of the day plan maybe look like before I even get on this plane? Well, a great start to the morning is actually understanding what's going on with you in the morning. Like when we wake up as humans, what's typically going on with us? Well, our brain is pretty under fueled. We haven't eaten for several hours. So it's going to need a little bit of nutrients there. It's a little bit dehydrated. You know, we wake up with this, with this idea of brain fog, right? It's kind of hard for us to kind of think we're obviously not good at, you know, solving complex problems. First thing in the morning, and we need to kind of warm ourselves up, so to speak. So if I understand where I'm at every morning, now I can kind of create a plan or create a system. I can kind of work, work backwards off of that. So I'm going to try to create a morning routine that involves getting my brain back into a state where it can start to solve problems and be more energized. And I'm going to solve that by just being very deliberate about, you know, water intake. I'm going to be very mindful of the types of foods that I'm eating, right? Trying to stay away from anything that's going to, you know, make that brain fog even worse with, you know, big spikes of sugar or things like that in my system. I'm also going to move a little bit. You know, I've gone, you know, if you're sleeping six, seven, eight hours every night, you're not really moving purposefully. Yes, you're rolling over back and forth. Maybe you got up to go to the bathroom. But the brain and the body aren't connected that well when you wake up in the morning, too. So I'm going to do some purposeful movement to try to, you know, jumpstart the nervous system to make sure that that doesn't become an inhibitor as I'm trying to start. start my day. And then finally, I'm going to just set some intentions. You know, what does this day look like? Who am I meeting with? What is needed of me for this day based off of the audience or the tasks or the meetings that I have laid out in front of me and just set some intentions and go ahead and prime my brain and prime my emotional state or my tonality and my attention for what I need to do in order to be successful. That's me getting down the runway, getting up the speed and just being able to ease into my day, more as kind of like an energy multiplier or at least a better problem solver for my team. I think it's it sounds so simple, but it's so powerful. This idea that how how could I grow on the go if I didn't check in with myself every morning and how can I actually am I more worried about fixing the plane or getting the plane to the right place. You talked about setting intentions and an exercise that we often do with people is what does success look like and you can narrow that down to what does success look like this morning. What does success look like this afternoon. What does success look like for this day because you started with the conversation that people often have unrealistic expectations and we could probably agree that really what happens is they don't even know where they're going. It's like getting in the plane and starting to fly and then going where we're we're trying to go to. And so I love this idea of intention setting every day to kind of constantly refocus themselves. Is there anything that people can do during the day to kind of grow on the go or during these hard pushes that could last well often they last a year but you know weeks months at a time. What can be done on the plane to maybe help me. Yeah, so I think one area is to be more mindful about taking some strategic pauses. Again, I think you know we're all you know high performers we're all working on bold projects. We all want to see things through to the finish line. And again, I think we can kind of fall into this you know this false idea or this myth about well I need to just keep going I need to stay on the gas pedal so to speak. And honestly there's sometimes nothing more strategic than just taking a brief pause and that pause can be a two minute just kind of let me step back. Let me let me almost literally take a step back if I'm in a meeting space if I'm you know with other individuals. Let me take a step back and have you know these kind of intra meaning within intra reflection moments and just asking myself what am I missing like right here right now and I'm missing anything you know what we're doing is we're really leveraging and we're pulling on this mindset skill of curiosity. But in these kind of intra reflection moments really asking ourselves questions of what am I missing what am I doing really well what do I need to keep doing what should I stop doing who else do I need to bring into this right what are their tools might I need this is actually tapping into a whole another concept out there that we can maybe talk touch on a little bit but it's called metacognition where you're kind of you're enhancing the awareness of your own thinking which has been shown to help improve curiosity and problem solving and helping individuals learn as they go but it's really just taking that one minute or taking the five minutes to step back and even just from a cognitive aspect asking yourself those questions to see am I on the right track do I know where I'm going like you just said and if I'm not on the right track what do I need to do what adjustments do I need to make and if I don't know where I'm going now I realize I need to make a bigger pause because I have to define that. You just added another element which I think is so important this intentionality you know because everywhere you pick up people say oh you know when you're busy and you have these really demanding days you just need to take more breaks but when you just added number one you added the word strategic in front of pause so that meant I'm assuming that there was an intention and it was purposeful to you added this concept of metacognition to actually pause and say what thoughts are going through my mind and are they really serving me and do I need to change those thoughts and then you got really purposeful about why am I here what am I doing what is the purpose of the work how can I make this biggest impact and so that break not only probably gave me a little more energy gave me a cognitive break or an emotional break but it also got me excited about what's coming next I'm now leaning into the next part of the flight and that I don't think we talk enough about that human beings when we feel like the world's coming at us and we're kind of defending ourselves we have anxiety we feel overwhelmed and often you know it's a lot of what people describe as burnout which we could talk about separately but but when you're leaning into something you're going towards it you're attacking it you're wanting to get something done suddenly most of us find this burst of energy do you find the same thing absolutely and if you really want to define what's going on there Scott it's dopamine right dopamine is a neurotransmitter I think most of us are familiar with it but for those of you that maybe aren't as familiar dopamine is a neurotransmitter that is very energizing it's it helps you you know it's commonly associated as like the reward reward hormone that you know if you win a race or you know you get a big award that's what comes right so people are always chasing that dopamine which is kind of like that high that you feel after an accomplishment and there's a a big misconception out there that dopamine is only associated with big successes and big victories you know you won the race right you got you signed the big deal those types of things but what research has actually shown is that you can actually get a little hit of dopamine from the smallest of moments where you recognize and you tell yourself I'm doing a good job and I'm moving in the right direction and so what you're really describing there in that moment Scott is yes we're caught up in the in the busyness and the you know we're burning a lot of energy you know in this go go go let's finish the project and we can you know occasionally feel very tired and maybe some folks are getting more towards that idea of burnout but if you do take that strategic pause if you do bring that intentionality into reflection and you do recognize hey I'm doing a good job here hey I am on the right track I am moving in the right direction just that little recognition of you're doing things right and in the right direction provides that little burst of dopamine that little little that little hit of dopamine and the what the research is showing is that dopamine even in a small dosage has a buffering effect against fatigue and against burnout which is where we get that burst of energy from and it's not just because we went out and did some extra move men or even got sunlight or we ate something energizing or drank a cup of coffee that energy is more chemical and hormonal in nature and it's from that little burst of dopamine so fascinating I you know we started this thing by talking about this journey on this plane to this big lofty goal and this fact that we have to do everything in progress because the goal continues this clock is running and I did read some stuff about you mentioned dopamine this biochemical triad dopamine being one which you described so great cortisol being another one that we often think of as the enemy the stress hormone but then it actually incites us gets us excited it also helps us improve our focus and and and gives us energy also and then oxytocin which is we're not on this plane alone we're going together so how do we bring each other together this idea of the the hormone of bonding and so I love that there's this true biochemical response that's helping us do it but I feel like one of the challenges is that those things can also get depleted so is there ever a time or how do you know when actually the right answer is to land the plane yeah that that now that's the great question right there because that takes a term that we've used a lot body literacy but you know you can expand that beyond to just that takes a pretty high level of self awareness and ultimately vulnerability right you've got to be able to you know during that strategic pause during that reflection you've got to be able to accurately assess what's going on with me right now and a good indicator is when you know things just all of a sudden aren't coming as easily as maybe they had been to you right when you're recognizing that it's taking you a little bit longer to process the information or taking a little bit longer to recall some some some factors some figures when we start to see those indicators and again we have to be honest with ourselves and vulnerable and we have to look for those we need to be aware of those because the faster we can catch those moments where we're starting to kind of slow things down or things seem to become a little bit more difficult that's when we can be a little bit more proactive and hopefully catch that slippery slope down into lower into deep levels of fatigue a little bit faster but Scott let me ask you a question I just want to do a little bit of a 180 here right so we've talked a lot about this idea of you know fixing the plane while you fly it and using that metaphor hopefully not too much hopefully everyone's still with us on this plane. But kind of two questions here for you and I'm just curious on your thoughts. Do you feel like that's a little bit of a myth that we actually need to fix the plane while we're flying it? Do you feel like maybe we're actually a little bit more capable of coming to a full stop than we actually realize? And if so, what would a full stop look like? What would in your experience coaching individuals, what would be an impactful kind of full stop? Almost like a recalibration. Yeah, so I do think it's a little bit of a myth. There are micro adjustments we can make while we're flying. You've mentioned some of them, you know, taking a moment for mindfulness, checking it with my breathing, thinking where I'm thinking or thinking about what I'm thinking, recalibrating my thoughts, all the things you've talked about. But one of the things that we've experienced is this concept of what you can do in a short amount of time when you land the plane and your purposeful and strategic. So if you look at last year, what happened to TIGNUM, more and more clients said, I need to land my plane and I want to come check in with you guys for a day and a half, two days and really kind of rebuild my systems before I take off again. And I think we've been blown away and our clients agree that if you get really purposeful about what that is, so what does success look like when I take off again? Who do I want to be revisiting our to-be vision, which we've talked about on here and looking at the things that are going to help me become it and the consequences of not becoming it and the fundamentals that I need to become my best self. And then actually asking myself, where can I make the greatest impact? How can I change my focus on my day from just being busy and getting stuff done? Actually focusing on impact. What would I do different? And people see I would fly my plane completely differently than I'm flying it now. And then the idea of leaving with just a couple simple things to do and again maybe some systems. What is my movement going to look like? You know, when I have time and the plane is landed, I'd love to exercise for an hour, but that's not my reality. So what can I do in 15 minutes? What can I do when I'm traveling? What can I do when I'm in a hotel? And then the same with my food or my food choices, have they become kind of habitual because I'm stressed and now I'm stress eating or am I back to that eat field perform that we talk about all the time and actually thinking about how is this food going to help me? So I have found and it's funny, it's so cathartic to help other people because you can't help but look in the mirror. Man, to stop for a day or two and to actually rethink everything is so powerful to do a little bit of quick reading to reassess some of your goals to reassess what is working and what's not working even to reassess what do the people around me need for me? Am I giving them what they need or am I just wasting so much energy giving everybody the same thing? And so I love the question is it a myth and many times it's I hate to cuss but it's bullshit. It's a bullshit story that we tell ourselves that we can't land the plane when we can. Yeah, I agree. I think you know, we're all guilty of kind of over inflating a little bit our busy our busyness, right? And you know, you see it all the time when you run into someone, "Hey, how are things?" And typically the first, you know, descriptor they give you is, "Oh, busy," right? And so you're right. I think it is a little bit of BS at times that we think that we just have to fix the plane while we fly it. That we have to grow on the go and that we actually can't take a weekend or take a day here or there to just full stop and do a recalibration there. And I love all those different exercises you said because that is a leader that is an individual being vulnerable, right? And actually being introspective and wanting to actually make meaningful change and not just kind of go through the motions there. That's that I think that's great. I do have another question though because we've talked a little bit about micro adjustments. Again, in your experience, what are some of those micro adjustments that you have found that kind of had the biggest impact, right? So like the smallest dosage, but maybe the biggest impact. Like I am flying, I can't stop. I am maybe in the middle of something kind of crazy. I'm on the road, traveling, things like that. But I need to make a couple changes. Are there like two to three that maybe everyone here in the kitchen could put into practice today or tomorrow and start to maybe get a little bit of benefits from? Absolutely. I mean, if you think about a plane, the plane has this GPS system. And what people think is that it's flying from point A to point B, but it's not. It's actually constantly readjusting the course based on weather, based on other plane travel, based on so many other factors. And we don't know it because we're sitting on the plane, but we need to do the same as humans. I think we need to constantly check back in to say, is my GPS correct? Do I need to make micro adjustments? What is the right thing that I need to get done today? Even if it feels like it's a little bit of a deviation, but it may move things forward. And one super tool that I find that helps with that is the reflection at the end of the day. We hear a lot about gratitude reflection. I think that could be one piece of it because gratitude helps us keep our perspective, which does help us from falling off the plane because we realize, yeah, it's easy to get into drama. I'm a victim. Someone else is a villain. I'm helpless. But when I have gratitude, suddenly those things go away. So that's a great emotional boost for me. The second one that I think is so powerful is the reflection on what did I do well today? And this is the one that so many people miss because if I'm not reflecting on what I'm doing well, then the chances are if things aren't going perfect, I throw away all the good things that I'm doing and I keep starting over and that takes so much energy and I have to overcome inertia over and over again. But if I constantly check in with what I'm doing well, I'm building that self-belief bank and that self-belief is going to be a driver when things get difficult. And when I'm dealing with self-doubt. So that's a huge one. And then the third reflection that I'd love to throw in there's, what would I do different tomorrow? But I always throw the caveat, what would that look like? Because it's one thing to have this philosophical discussion with yourself at night. What would I want to do different? But it's another thing to actually imprint what it would look like in my brain so that my brain says, thank you, Scott, for giving me that guidance. I can make that happen. So for me, that is a huge one. The next one. Oh, yeah, thank you. So the next one would be these pauses that you talked about. It's unbelievable. But here in our office, I have a five-minute walk, a 20-minute walk, a 30-minute walk. So I already know pre-planned when I get five minutes where I'm going to go. I have a playlist on my phone of songs I might listen to that get me in the right emotional state or that make me reflect or that just help clear my mind. And so I've already thought out what these breaks will look like. Sometimes to be honest, I'd love to have no music, no sound. And I just reflect on what did I just learn from that last meeting? What do I need to do with what I just heard that is going to move the ball forward? And to get clarity of that, because if I don't what I find is I just go to the next meeting, maybe I filled that 20 minutes that popped up in my calendar with email. And now at the end of the day, I not only feel overwhelmed, but I wasted everybody's time in a meeting without applying it to action. So I find those couple things to be really, really good. Does that make sense? It does. I think it's fantastic. And especially those reflection questions that you had. And I don't know if everyone caught it, but the phrasing, the wording of that was actually really important because it wasn't what happened today that went well, right? Or what happened today that didn't go well. Like, because that absolves you from control, right? Because something could go well in a day, but that doesn't mean that you had anything to do with it. And so by asking yourself, what did I do well today? It's also giving you a good sense of control. And if we go back to that big scary B word that a lot of people use these days, burnout, a big aspect of burnout is a sense of a loss of control, right? And so by taking, by realizing that I am doing things well, and by realizing that I can do things better, you are giving yourself more control over each day, which is also going to help from a little bit of an energizing perspective there. And I love which you started with too about just making the smallest little changes in adjustments. And I think this is also going back to one of the original points of lowering the expectations, you know, going back to, if you're in the cockpit flying this plane, if you were to take an actual plane and just barely shift, you know, the direction of the plane by just, you know, millimeters left or right up or down, it would almost be imperceptible at first. But if you stay on that trajectory, you wind up in an entirely different location over time. And so I think that's another reason why some folks can get frustrated when it comes to this idea of fixing while I'm, you know, going and growing on the go, is that there may be not seeing the results immediately. And so they quickly kind of abandoned some of these strategies that, if they just stuck with it, would wind up eventually helping them over time. - Yeah, I think Laura from our team asked a great question one time too, which I always smile about. And she said, well, maybe the first question is, are you on the right plane? Because sometimes it is true, you know, we're killing ourselves going in a direction or actually maybe even a job. We've even seen with some people a career that is so meaningless to us. It has no purpose for us, that it really doesn't matter. Like why am I worried about fixing the plane? I need to get off this plane and get on a different plane. And I thought that was really funny too. But I wanted to ask you, 'cause we mentioned a little bit about these big goals and we also touched a little bit on burnout. In your opinion and experience, do you think that these big lofty goals that these companies or teams create? Do they actually inspire or defeat people's engagement? And do they actually create or cure or maybe resolve burnout? - Great question. And I think the answer to that is all of the above, but it's all different if you lay it out over time. Right? So a big goal that's presented to a team or to an individual, I think in the very brief, immediate after effects, yeah, it's energizing. It's engaging. You can start to visualize that success and what it would mean. And it could kind of cure, at least, stave off burnout a little bit because there is gonna be an energizing factor. But if you stretch that timeline out further and further, what we typically find is that those big lofty goals, they actually do more harm than good because the timeline's so long, it's hard to get that fired up and that energized every day for a two year, a three year, a five year target. Like sooner or later, we're just gonna wake up one morning and realize that's too far away. I don't need to show up with the same level of energy. And there's a lot of ways and to get lost along the way when that big lofty goal is so far away. So you know, answer to your question is kind of a little bit of a complicated and maybe it's a cop out of sorts, but it can do all of it. It's just what's the time scope that you're applying to it? So I think it's great to have a big goal and saying like, hey, here's our revenue target for the next 12 months or for the next 24 months. This is what we're working for. This is gonna be our new product or our new launch that we're gonna have. That's great, but you've got to be able to break it down so that individuals again can feel like they're making accomplishments more along the way and that it's not just the one big accomplishment at the end of the entire race. - That's such great advice. The idea of breaking things down is so important. And you know, I think two, Angela shared with us, I don't know, Angela, we're gonna get to all of our participants, our members questions here in a second. But she shared with me a quote from Dave Lennon this morning, which I love. He's one of our founding members and he said he defines burnout as demand over purpose. Meaning the load has gotten so high, but my focus or my purpose has become so low. And this is something in your strategic pauses and all that, that it's easy, that it might be something that's missing, that we don't come back to why we're doing what we're doing. And again, when I think of my experience in the fire department, rarely did people burn out from going on too many fires. Like really that got us excited. It brought us together. It was our mission and we were talented. It was tied to our purpose. It was often going on calls where you were, you got aroused, you got excited, but there was no purpose because the call wasn't really needed or necessary. That really burned people out. In fact, we coined the term rust out, which is probably more appropriate. It happened slowly over time rather than this big blow, which most of us think about. And then also that you mentioned a little bit this idea that it is totally natural when you're in the middle of a big project to have periods where you feel overwhelmed and fatigued. When you turn on a sporting event and you see them at the end of a soccer game, they're exhausted, they're sweaty. They can't wait to take a break. That's the price, that's the prize you get for the energy that you put into achieve something great. And especially as a team. And sometimes we don't celebrate fatigue enough. We run from it. We're so afraid to be tired. What do you think about that idea? I agree. And I think it's because we, over the last, I want to say probably 10 years or so, we've so tightly intertwined the idea of fatigue with that big scary concept of burnout. And so we do shy away from fatigue sometimes. We do shy away from maybe pushing ourselves a little too hard because we think that that's going to lead to burnout. And I say it very often that just because you're tired doesn't mean you're burnt out. Just like, hey, if you got a little bit of doubt, doesn't mean you've got imposter syndrome. Burnout is a clinical event that happens for individuals. So very, and thankfully, it's rare that you see someone that truly, truly has hit that level of burnout. So I agree. I think we need to embrace the idea of pushing ourselves and embracing being a little bit tired and running towards fatigue because ultimately, and honestly, that's also how you'll get stronger over time is by pushing yourself, getting fatigued. But as we always talk about what's critical there is then proper recovery so that you can come back stronger and then your ability for load management gets higher and higher and higher over time. If we're constantly avoiding fatigue, then we're not building resilient minds or resilient bodies. We'll actually suffer more harm quicker from future fatigue if we don't embrace it as we go along. Yeah, so well said. So, Anne, I know that our members are probably going crazy trying to get in. This has been such a great conversation. Any questions from the members that Brian and I could possibly answer? Yeah, definitely. We've got a lot of questions here. So this one from Deb, what are the best ways to get clear on the specific fix that your play needs? And what she says is that's often the hardest part. Knowing what the changes, what the repairs are that we need to make. Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think going back to this idea of enhancing like your self-awareness or your body literacy. What am I feeling? What are my symptoms that's going on right now? That's a great place to start because you might not immediately know, oh, I've got cognitive fatigue or I've got emotional fatigue or things like that. But you're definitely, you can more accurately feel the symptoms that's going on with you. So that's a great place to start. Another place to start is just asking and stepping back and realizing what have I been doing a lot of? Where do I think the fatigue? Where do I think the load is coming from? And let that also be a little informative. If for example, you're feeling really tired and you take a step back and you realize that you've been having really intense long, one-on-one discussions and really deep connections with individuals and being very empathetic with them and helping solve problems, then there's a good indicator that that's a lot of emotional fatigue that you've taken on. And those are the symptoms that you're feeling. So practicing some emotional recovery. Conversely, if you step back and you realize, man, I've been doing a lot of computer work and staring at screens and a lot of processing of information and those types, that type of work. That's high cognitive load. And so I need to step back. I need to figure out the most effective strategy for giving my brain a break. So it's really kind of two things. What am I feeling right now? Let that inform me. But then also, where's the load coming from? What have I been doing the most of that's probably contributing to the fatigue? Yeah, and if I could add to that, just two things. One, that a lot of our members may not know, but on the personal readiness hub that all of you have access to, there are tools. If you go into the Be More section, there are tools there. One of them is manage your fatigue and Brian just described, how could I tell if I'm having physical, cognitive, or emotional fatigue? And what would I do uniquely for that fatigue? You have that at your fingertips already and there is one of the tools. So just thought I'd mention that. And the second one, coming back to Deb's question, how do we get clear on the specific fix we need? This is coming back to the idea of sometimes we have to ask better questions. And we have to define the problem. We have a tool called the mindset shifter that helps people recognize a trigger and then recognize the low impact self-talk that their brain creates around that trigger. And it's funny that the more you practice it, you realize that one big value that can easily get missed is being able to clearly define the trigger. the problem. And And so what we find, and especially when people are busy and they're overwhelmed, they just do things by default. They get busy, but they've never asked themselves again, and is this going to lead to impact, or is this actually solving the problem? And if you don't know the problem, how can you find the solution? In the fire department, we pull up on the scene, we do a 360. We have to go all the way around the building. We have to assign people to address seven sides of that fire, the front, the back, the left side, the right side, the inside, the above the fire, the below the fire. We're constantly keeping a checklist of what we know, what we don't know, and what we need to know, because if we don't know this, it could kill us. So we're always redefining the problem. And one of the traps that kills firefighters is a unit showed up first on the scene, did a size up, we built a strategy and an action plan around that size up, but the incident evolved and it changed. And the building is actually now at a different stage of decomposition. And if we don't constantly reassess that size up, we're in the wrong strategy, and we're doing the wrong thing. So I think that's another part, Deb, is we have to constantly define and redefine the problems. So another one here from JD, what if you're not the decision maker on these changes, whether to fix the plane or to stop? And what do you do if there are really unrealistic expectations with big implications if it doesn't work? I think we call that turbulence when you're flying. You stop the beverage cart and you put the seatbelt on. I'm just joking, JD, but in some ways it is true. We have to be very clear about what is in our control and out of our control. One of the biggest contributors to killing or defeating our mindset and to ultimately leading to emotional fatigue is when we're not clear about what's in our control and not in our control. So even in those situations, when I can't land the plane, I ask myself, but what can I do? And then I start to focus on the things I can do. How can I make the biggest impact in my circle of influence? How can I do the right things for me today? How can I maybe, we do this all the time with our athletes, turn my flashlight, my focus away from myself and ask myself, how can I help my teammates? Can I help them make a bigger impact? Can I help them feel better, be better, have more energy? And then those moments, a lot of times we get through a lot of this. But ultimately, I would argue and then I'll throw it to you, Brian. So I apologize for taking this, but it is our job as followers to challenge leaders. It is our job. They are only doing the best that they can with what they know. And if I know a better way, it is my job to speak up and respectful and helpful way to say, maybe there's a better solution because I feel like this plane is going to crash. We're not going in the right direction. There's things we need to do. That, I think, we often underestimate and we don't take responsibility or ownership to do. So Brian, any thoughts from you? Well, one, I would totally agree with that. I think that was a great response to the question. And that, you know, one of the last words you just used, their ownership, I think that's where the, the onus really falls is in, even in that moment where you feel like you're not at the control, someone else is, is flying the plane and they're not slowing down for anything or whatever. Take, use, it's still on you to take your, to take ownership over your growth, over your recovery. And maybe it's even just reducing the scope, right? Maybe you, maybe you can't make any adjustments that day. Okay. So what adjustments can I make in the next couple hours? Maybe you can't make any adjustments over the next couple hours. But what adjustments can I make right now? So it's still about taking ownership and saying, what do I have control over? And what can I do right now that can still help me, that can still help me take that one step forward or, you know, feel a little bit more composed or think a little bit more clearly or ask the better question, there's always something that you can do. And so it, you know, it sounds again easier said than done and maybe oversimplified. But taking ownership and recognizing, no, no, I need to do something right now for myself. And even if it's just, you know, closing my eyes for, you know, 10 seconds and taking five seconds in and five seconds out of a breath, that's still something that I chose to do and I did it for myself and I know it's going to have an effect. So here we've got, and there's a couple of questions that come in from, from Arigone from Hassan, but they're very similar. So I'm going to merge them. How can we, you know, when we want that growth, that professional and personal growth and personal development, how can we get that and manage that while at the same time we've got this very challenging, you know, playing that we're, that we're flying any, any tips on how to do that? Yeah, well, one, it starts going back to one of Scott's earlier points there. What does success look like? If you know where you're going, it makes it a lot easier for you to kind of backwards plan and create different kind of benchmarks or, you know, smaller kind of deconstructed goals along the way so that you do feel like you're getting, you know, some of that growth. And, you know, one concept and I'd love to hear maybe your takes on this, Scott, as we keep kind of talking about, you know, all of this growing on the go from very much the individual kind of viewpoint. But what we haven't talked about is, let me just bring someone else in real quick and get their feedback. Let me ask someone else, like, hey, am I showing up focused enough? Like, what else, what other changes, you know, could I make? How am I being perceived in this meeting here? That trusted colleague, let, you know, an outside source also be a metric for growth. And so using an extra set of eyeballs to kind of help you along the way is another way to help achieve that growth because they can confirm or deny that you are making those changes, that you are seeing or that you are making some of those improvements along the way. Yeah, I think feedback is so important. And because, like you said, we don't notice the little growth that we're making, but then actually listening to the feedback and accepting it because a lot of people will ask for feedback. But then if it's good feedback, they'll go, yeah, yeah, yeah, but they'll devalue it. And if it's bad feedback, then they'll go, yeah, you know, they don't know what they're talking about. And I'd say on both sides of the coin feedback is so critical to be able to process it. And a part of that also is rating or to be vision. That's the personal growth that I find is first my foundation. Am I becoming the person that I said I wanted to be, that I defined as me at my best, that also stretched me and guided me to become my best version of myself. So for me, in those moments, I rate myself. And then I can see, did I show up as an energy multiplier, did I show up as someone who was calm in the face of chaos? You know, did I show up as someone who was an attentive listener without judgment? If those are the things, those, I just happen to share some of my to be vision with you. But if those are some of the things that are important to me, then I have to rate it and reflect it. And then luckily, again, the personal readiness hub can help me do that. And I track that over time. So I think those are our big ones. But then at the same time, what I found is when things are busy and I'm involved in a goal. The first kind of reflexive thing I do is I sacrifice myself growth. I don't read books that I normally would read. I don't listen to podcasts that enlighten me and help me think better and think different. I kind of like put my master's degree on the sideline. And what I found is you don't have to do that. I may not be able to read for hours, but I can read for 30 minutes before I go to bed and invest in my own growth. So I think that's one thing that answers the question is that it's critical to be on our own journey and to be investing in our own growth even during the busiest times. Great, thanks. So this one from Michael and he's asking specifically what tools or levers can we take from those who are in a very flying their planes very fast, very high, such as special forces elite athletes? Any insights specifically from them? Yeah, well, I mean, especially within the athletic realm that they still have their fundamentals. They're going to get before before the plane is in the air or anything like that. They have their fundamentals, right? They're going to get the right amount of sleep. They're going to make sure that their nutrition is as dialed in as it can possibly be from macro nutrients and meaning how much protein and carbs and so on and so forth. So their fundamentals are going to get taken care of. And I would say the same is true in my experience of working with the military as well. They might not get as much sleep as they probably we should, but they take into account the fundamentals of, are we rested? Do we have the food that we need? Do we have the water that we need? All of the equipment that we need. And so I think that's another area where in the business community, many times high performers, they sacrifice a lot of those fundamentals, going back to echoing a little bit of what Scott just said. They sacrifice sleep. They sacrifice diet. They sacrifice, eating up and moving and doing these things that would actually help them be one better leaders and would actually help them to fly that plane more effectively. But they sacrifice those fundamentals thinking that that's what they have to do, that they just need to stay on the gas. So I think the big learnings from these other two other kind of more popular performance domains of military and athletics is you, if you have your fundamentals and there is a wonderful interview that Scott did towards the end of the last year with Paula Magraza. And I apologize if I put your that last name where she talks about the fundamentals and it was an amazing bold conversation about what are the two to three, maybe four things that are like non-negotiable you're going to do. And if you can define those fundamentals, then it makes those micro adjustments that you do have to make when you're in the air a little bit easier to maintain. Yeah, and I think, you know, we've touched on a couple of these things, but having a clear plan. And when you look at the best, look at the Kansas City Chiefs that just won the Super Bowl. So for American football, Andy Reed does something really unique. The coach, highly successful, one of the most successful coaches in the history of American football. He co-develops the plan with his players. And then they challenge the plan. They go out and try it. You see that in the elite military groups do the same thing. The team that's going to execute the plan co-creates it, then they go practice it and challenge it to see what's going to work. And then most important, they create plans for A, B and C and D scenarios. So it's not just if everything goes well because everything will not go well. They already have their second adjustment, their third adjustment, their fourth adjustment. And they've identified what do we need to see that tells us when to adjust. I think we fail to do that. We create if we're lucky one plan and I'll tell you honestly, most of us have no plan. But therefore we don't really have clarity about what we're trying to execute. And then we don't have the ability to make adjustments because we haven't pre-plan those adjustments. And when the plane is flying and the world is moving fast, if you haven't pre-thought of some of these things, it's difficult to do at the moment, which comes to maybe the last one. If I look at what we do, Brian with athletes and with special forces guys and with executives, we help them create what we call pre-frames. They already know that their brain is going to create some low impact self-talk that is not going to serve them. And they can predict when I'm tired, these are the common thoughts that coat through my brain. So we help them create the pre-frames that they're already ready with. When that comes, I just plug that in and you say it so perfectly, Brian, stop listening to your brain and start talking to your brain. Tell it what you want it to do. Which I think is such a critical, small shift that changes the way I perform and the way I feel. So that might be some suggestions to Michael for your question. So this one from Connie, what specific practices or exercises can teams use to get this idea of metacognition and to sort of really embrace this? Any suggestions or ideas that have worked there? Yeah, so the essence of metacognition boils back to, again, the definition of it is thinking about your thinking. And so as an individual, I can ask myself, what am I missing here? Well, if I'm with a group of individuals, I can ask that same question and just change a couple words and say, what are we missing here? Now, the important aspect of bringing metacognition and this kind of awareness of the group's thinking and enhancing it is you've got to build in time to then ask those questions. If one person left of their own devices can get caught up in the moment and just slam on the gas pedal and go, go, go, then a group of individuals is just as prone if not more to being on the gas and let's go and kind of feeding off of each other's energy. So one of the biggest and probably the first suggestions would just be if you're working on a project and you've got everyone in the same room, whatever the timeline is, whether it's a couple hours that you have to solve this problem a couple days, weeks or months, you've got it essentially schedule, you know, having alarm go off and net alarm is the trigger for let's all take a step back. Let's kind of look at this picture. Let's look at, you know, what's on the table? Let's look at what's on the screen from a different perspective and let's start asking those questions. What are we missing here? What other questions do we need to ask? Do we have what we need already? Do we need other individuals? What other resources do we need? So it really is about, okay, we've got to create the trigger that allows us the time and the space to ask those questions and as a group, then you're practicing metacognition. Yeah. And you know, we often talk about that a human being cannot outperform their own self image. Well, the same thing is true for a team. A team cannot outperform their shared self image. So one exercise that we have found to be super important is the idea that teams need to create a shared self image of who we are at our best. Then they also can do the same thing. They can rate, are we showing up as this team? And as I, am I as an individual also showing up to support this team to be its best? And then we can talk about the benefits of being that team, the consequences of not being that team. What are the fundamentals that we need to do to become this team? What are the things that we need to do stop doing? We don't often talk about that. And there was an interesting one of the benefits of flying so much we're talking about planes, but traveling for projects is that you know, you get to watch a little bit of Netflix and there's a special on Netflix called the Captains of the World. And it's about the captains of the World Cup teams that were in the 2022 World Cup. And there's a great story about Croatia and the team captain, Luke Amodric, who is a veteran, sits the goalie down Dominic, Livakovich. I know I'm going to pronounce that wrong. But any basically says dude, your self-doubt is infecting the team. Your self-doubt is dragging the team down. You need to get your stuff together. And then as a mentor and as a leader giving very difficult feedback, he starts giving him examples of all the great things that he has done as a goalie, not just in this tournament, but previously. Remember when you did this, remember when you managed that, remember when you picked the team up here, remember this save, remember the courage you showed. And he starts basically building his self-belief. And as the story goes for those of you that remember they were playing Brazil in the quarter finals and Brazil was a huge favorite. And they went on in penalty kicks after double overtime to beat Brazil 4-2, hinging on the performance of that goalie. So that goalie switched from his self-doubt infecting the team to a self-belief infecting the team. And that's an amazing story of how we as a team can also do that. So hopefully that helps answer. So, Ange, how about we take one more question and then we'll wrap it up. Okay, great. And this one's from James, are there any communication adjustments that you can make when you are feeling whether it's fatigue or burnout, but that will ensure that you've got clarity and effectiveness? Well, I guess my first question to that would almost be communication towards whom, right? Who am I trying to communicate that, you know, I need to, you know, take some rest or some recovery. At the end of the day, you know, most of us on the call as high performers, you know, or leaders in certain capacities is being open, right? I think one of the traps that a leader can fall into these days is, you know, saying that they're doing something and it could be for the best of reasons, but no one else knows why they're doing it. They say like, I need to take a break. Okay, well, why do you need to take a break? Like, share a little bit. Be a little bit vulnerable there and say, you know, hey, I'm going to take a step away. I'm going to step outside. I'm going to go on one of Scott's, you know, five minute, ten minute walks, whatever it is because I'm feeling a little fatigued. My, my, I got a little brain fog going on and I know that if I go do that, it's going to help kind of clear some things up and I'll be able to come back and help problem solve a little bit. You've done two things there. One, you've taken care of yourself and you've taken that ownership. But then two, you've very vividly shown everyone else in the room, a solution to a problem that they're probably feeling too. And so you're modeling the behavior that you would want your team to have. You don't want your team members to show up to meetings, brain fogged, and tired, and ineffective. So when it comes to communicating the needs and what you're doing for this growing on the go, I would just say be as honest and open and vulnerable as possible, especially if you're in a leadership position and you're trying to communicate outwards towards others. And I would just add one quick thing. When stress is high and fatigue is high, communication can also be an energy drain. And so here you need a system that works in those situations. And the system that we used in the fire department is called a CAN report. What are your conditions, actions and needs? Tell me what you see, tell me what you're doing, tell me what you need for me. And in these times, I think sometimes having some version of that that works for you could be super helpful. And so hopefully that answered the question. Angie, I super appreciate the great questions from the members. Brian, I want to thank you for this deep dive. I think the insights were incredible. And we're going to have a Q&A. We'll get to the other questions and answer those and post those for everybody. Just so everyone knows, next session will be on March 8th. We're going to be joined by a super guest. Her name is Lucy Shepard. She is a expeditionist, a young, incredible expeditionist that has done things that you cannot imagine. And she's going to talk about how do you actually do those bold projects. So thanks to everyone, it was great seeing you and having your questions. We look forward to our next time together. Thank you for listening to the TIGNUM thoughtcast. If you've enjoyed this or any of our other thoughtcast episodes, please subscribe so you don't miss out on future releases. If you'd like to get in touch with TIGNUM, please email us at [email protected]. Until next time, be bold, be more, and keep ruling your impact.