Firmenkultur II: Wie funktioniert eine Hochleistungskultur? | 🧠 Wissen

Digital compact. Today from the field of leadership. With your moderator Joel Kaczmarek. Hello guys, today I have the dear Erik van Möller again with me as a guest. You might remember, the Culture Code Foundation is a company where you bring other companies how good film culture works. And he was already with me for a short time, so we took part 1. And there we took a little bit apart. How does the company work, culture, what should I pay attention to. And I already took action to do's with it. And today we're going to move on a little bit further. And today we're talking about how do I actually build a high-performance culture? And that by participating in my company. Establishing and at all is possible. So, and Erik knows where he's talking about. He has already sold two companies successfully. After his second exit he thought so high, what's going on here? I just sold a company here. We merged him with a third company. And my team performed 50% better. And then he started to look under the hood, where that's located. And it went so deep into his heart and blood. That he built his own mission out there. Because his advice, said Culture Code Foundation, it will also make sense in terms of perspective. As you can see, he wants to do a convincing speech. And he's really going to talk for a long time. Dear Erik, nice to be here again. Good morning. Thank you Joel, thank you for the invitation. I'd like to be with you again and again. Yes, nice. Today we're going to do a very short recap. So, we've already talked about film culture and how it is also a part of the competition. So, in 30 minutes you've given a really high density of points. Why is it beneficial? What should I pay attention to? What are you? What are you? What are your symptoms? And so on and so forth. And today, as I said, it's about high performance culture. And with you, with the addition of participation. Maybe we can start a little bit at that time. Maybe at first you have a book tip, by the way, for our show notes. Because I know my listeners are also on it, if there are some cool things to read. In the first episode we'll do that too. Write it down again. What is this time? This time I would like to recommend Daniel Coyle, The Culture Code. The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups. And that's a typical business book. In the first episode I recommended a Harvard professor, who wrote his whole career of research. That's a business book now. That's someone who has now gone to the Navy and to other groups and looked at how they do it, how they manage to do this teamwork. That they don't only trust blindly, but that they really manage things there. And that's a practical business book. But with great stories and really interesting things. And as a bonus, there is a full book. That means The Culture Playbook. And then it's about, I think, 50 or 100 actionable tattoos for firm culture. Both are good to read. Very good. And then let's get started. What does it actually mean when you say participation? What would you call it as a participative process or as a participative culture? To make a definition. It's a leadership style. With the leadership forces, they actively involve their employees in decision-making processes. This leadership style is based on trust, on communication, on eye height and a common responsibility. Employees can introduce ideas, make suggestions and influence on problem-solving solutions. The leadership force is more of a coach than a classical predecessor. And with this together, perhaps again summarized, the employees become so participative. You bind your people. It's very transparent. There is no office policy. You trust the competencies of the employees and the teams. There is a co-creation. We set the goals together. Not I am the boss, but we as a team. And that leads to a high motivation, an identification. You also say commitment to the colleague, to the company and to their job. I'm looking forward to it. In my backyard, where I am, they are in the kitchen, where they always have the baguettes, they have a postcard. There is always "I am the boss, you are nothing." And then you just kiss your feet. That's exactly not true. Yes. From the point of view, you can do it like this. And you don't get out of this, so to speak, I am the one boss, the other is not the boss. You don't get out of it. And it's not about eliminating it 100 percent, but to raise it clearly, so to speak, of course, I have a so-called area of responsibility. I am Eric, I am the founder and CEO of the company. I am the CEO of the company. Of course, I have to decide, who works in this company and who doesn't. At the same time, I have this responsibility. You have this responsibility. We both share the responsibility. You have yours, I have mine, I don't talk to you. And I believe that you do your job well. And I want to help you as, so to speak, leadership power to do your job better. I let you participate. I see you as a person who wants to work. Maybe a short excursion. There are two leadership principles. There are these, one says, the theory why. That's a human image, where you say people want to work, people are actually motivated to do things. There are only the right frame conditions. And then they grow over themselves. And then there is theory X, which is so to speak, X, how the opposite is. People don't want to work. People are lazy and people have to be motivated with pressure and fear. Otherwise it doesn't work. And participation in leadership is actually the leading model for people who actually want to do good things. Give them the frame conditions to be successful. Of course, it also requires, I say, trust and a certain long line. So freedom, I would now maybe translate. Because if we have this typical, I think there is always a transformational and transactional style. And transactional, if I don't communicate with each other, is what I write with my boss, you have nothing. If someone says, you do it like this, you do it like this, I decide everything. So if it's like a pyramid built and from above is always thrown down, something should be done. And of course that doesn't work with such a colossal. If I have such a certain control mindset and actually allow people to make the independent decisions, according to my logic, which I might suggest, according to the common frame. So then you need a definitive excuse for the people who do it. What you're saying is exactly right. And if I, now let's take the hierarchical example, if I take the decision with me, and I take it with tasks and not with goals. I am, so to speak, your predecessor. And I give you instructions instead of I support you to do your job. I am not a decision maker. I say how it is done. Then instead of asking for your honest opinion and to say, I have listened to you, these are my arguments. I treat you as a subordinate or I treat you as an eye-catcher. Your opinion tells me exactly how much. I actually don't ask much for input and centralize my decision-making. In comparison to, I understood that the input of a team participatively leads to more information. I listen to my employees. That doesn't mean that there is a consensus about decisions, but I want to make the best decision and I explain to you the arguments for it. These are, so to speak, prejudices and prejudices. And that leads to, when I am hierarchically led and want to make it extreme, such a boss who also writes in meetings. I don't want to call it a very successful German business founder, whom we all know from the earlier times, just writes people in meetings. And then you go, I don't want to be written on it, because then he just throws me out if you are a bad guy, such an artistic, egocentric founder. That leads to trying not to make any mistakes and that is actually, so to speak, the decision-centralized. But it has been proven that the sum of the individual heads and individual work is more when people are motivated and engaged. What would you say are the other conditions for such a participative culture? Trust. Trust is the basis for everything. That means, can I, my boss, honestly trust when I made a mistake? Can I trust my colleague and ask for help? This asking for help is a very, very important topic. A little bit of this, more than three children. And I tell our children, there are a few people that you can never limit. Your whole life, in every dimension, can always trust. This is your core family and your grandparents. With all other people, you have to at least ask a little bit if they might have other interests. But with us, it will never happen. Of course, also in children's conflicts. It is also like a team to mitigate. Trust is incredibly important. Transparency. Transparency is a term, when we work with films, you have to define it. Because there is complete transparency. All employees, all numbers, transparent. All holders transparent or a part transparent. That means to know what is transparent and what is not. That is a question. Often I ask the question, "Dear C-Level, are you ready to transcribe your C-Level meetings and to make online videos for your employees?" And on that question, you have very different answers. And that is already a question of transparency. Namely, do we talk things like this as if theoretically all our employees are in the room? And I don't mean that there are things that you prefer to talk about. Critical things, personal things, private things. But business decisions are discussed like this. Is that transparent? And I know it is the most difficult so to speak. Management meetings should be online, but transparency is important. And I can tell you from experience, two out of a hundred people, look into the memo and see, "Oh, what did they talk about?" "Yes, the topic was important to me. It was decided differently than I had planned. What were the arguments?" And then you can listen in. Or you can ask questions. And then you can say, "Yes, there is the decision memo." We have written it down and we have actively decided on these options. So trust point one, transparency is point two. The third point is empowerment. That is always such a nice word. I don't think there is a better word in German. There is something like "employees give rooms for free and demand responsibility at the same time." That means you say, "No, I am responsible for everything as a boss, but I am only responsible as a boss and the songs will be held together. But you are responsible for it." And I also prefer accountability. And that's empowerment. And that's a lot of decision making together. We often ask the question, "Do you clearly have regular responsibilities?" And the previous one describes the decision of an individual contributor. That means the boss says, "No, we are doing it differently. This sentence is a gift because it is hierarchical. What you have to do is the opposite. You have to say empowerment." I understand there was a problem here. Dear employees, let's think together where the cause is. Let's solve together. Brainstorm. And then I'll give you my experience and you make a decision. I'll make an example. We set up a office three or four years ago for 50 people in the middle of Berlin. Really nice. And the colleague asked, "Should I buy the tables now?" So the HR colleague, HR is calling you, office colleague. And I say, "Are you asking me about advice or approval?" Because when I give approval, it's my decision. Then I'm responsible for the office. If you want me to be responsible, then I'll do it in my own way. Please give me all the information. I can make a decision. And we had the so-called advice policy in the area of decision, namely, never give someone approval for a decision, but just a advice. And my advice was summarized. Yes, those were secondhand furniture. They were good. They were cheap. Those were fair. Those were good things. And the colleague thought about it. And I just asked, "What are your arguments and alternatives?" And then Ross said, "The alternative is worse and more expensive." I said, "Well, if I were you now, then I would have a good argument to take responsibility for my decision." But you make the decision. Otherwise, it's my job. And I have another example with a marketing manager that I set up and she came from a corporate environment. And she is incredibly excellent, expertly good. And I had a very good feeling. And we also had an incredibly good time. So please don't misunderstand. She is incredibly competent. But she came from a hierarchical environment. And one of our first topics was "Eric, what's my budget?" "What's my marketing budget?" And I say, "I don't tell you what your marketing budget is, but marketing is a return on investment topic. And you tell me what the marketing strategy is and what budget you need and what new customers or business customers pay with it. That's your strategy and your decision. And this mindset is empowerment to say, "I don't tell you a budget, but you tell me what your marketing strategy is, how much money you need and why that's meaningful. And then you make the decision and you decide what's your budget." And that's empowerment. And that's in every dimension. So I trust this. Transparency, empowerment. That's number three. Now it's number four. Growth mindset. Growth mindset is also such a beautiful English word because I have nothing better than that. Life is learning. Or I always say to my children, "Learn life. Enjoy. You can make every mistake, but please do it just once." And mistakes are the basis for change. And these mistakes are the basis for change. And these mistakes are the basis for change. And this... I got something. It's not going well. How do I find it better? How can I improve myself? To see feedback as growth. Of course, feedback hurts. When I make a mistake, I'm usually... I'm scared. I'm afraid. I'm sad about it. Maybe I did something stupid. But if I give my feedback, then I can grow on it. And this growth leads to the incidence effect, so that you get incredibly much better. And this growth mindset can also be used in the field of company culture and participatively in the field of marketing. How do I give feedback? When do I give feedback? Can the other person give feedback too? And basically to ask behind the scenes how can I make my employees develop personally? Everyone wants to develop and it's incredibly positive for the company. I've learned something again. But I've learned something and the company has learned something too. And that's number four. And now I'm going to close out number five, very quickly, customer centered. Everything you do has to have the customer in the middle. There are very clear things like taking the customer personnel. And if it's a physical company with the office, just print it out on a piece of paper. To talk to the company personnel. Sometimes you have a place or a puppet in the meeting room that symbolizes the customer. That you are in distant meetings. And I just make stupid examples to, so to speak, to concentrate on having in mind not what I want, not what my colleague wants, but what the customer wants, in the end. When that happens from the finance department, how are our calculations done? Is that positive? Does the customer get the calculations like that or is it better differently? That's in every department, so to speak, to draw this through. What would the customer think, not only in marketing or customer success, but especially in something more distant department, so customer distant department. But this, if I were a customer, what would I think is good? That's customer centricity. And so, again, I'm in a friend of summary. You said, what is a requirement for a participative good culture, trust, transparency, empowerment, growth mindset and customer centricity? And if I look at these five points now, does it need, if I translate them as a continuum, always the right-hand one? So I have to say, always with transparency, transparency, everything, with trust, completely trust, or is it okay to have some degree at some point to have a possible participative culture? Do you know what I mean? So how much does it need extreme? It doesn't need extreme. And maybe it's important to say between hierarchical culture and participative culture there is a continuum. It is, in itself, 0 and 1, namely I refer to people or I'm hierarchical, but most people have some kind of mixture. And one can say, the more you get into the area trust and transparency, it's good. But it can also be, for example, that too much transparency is not good. Because not all people or cultures or companies, even because of their history, for example, want to know what my colleague deserves. That can also lead to problems. If I give too much responsibility as a leadership force, too fast, which is a change to participation, then people can be overwhelmed with responsibility. My responsibility also leads to pressure and responsibility. You can also, as a company, who doesn't have to be extremely innovative in your market, have too much growth mindset. That means, too much innovation and too little, so to speak, the existing exploit. Even with customers, there are some customers, they are just bad people and you don't always have to do something for customers who are not good for you. Why do I say that? And that leads me a little bit to another topic. I would like to talk about one framework, that I would like to share with the listeners. We have read many, many books, because we are very structured on the topic and we use in large part the competing values framework. And if you haven't heard of it, you can google "Competing values framework". It has four dimensions and what I like about it is that it has four dimensions. Everyone can understand it and you can break it down to personality types. But when you get deeper, then it has a real depth. I'll explain it briefly. There are four squares. There is a collaborative quadrant. That means, I am very human-centered, I am very positive. Everything is possible and the collaboration of people is possible. For example, a company would be a company's advice and if you think about these personality traits of the disk test, then it would be a yellow, human-centered salesman. Then we have very innovative companies, that put a lot of value on creativity, on innovation and to have great ideas on everything. Maybe a creative agency. But also, so to speak, high-tech companies have to be very creative in their first phases when you do something like collaborate and create. And on the lower two squares, you have a compete. Compete, as you imagine, goal, competition, KPI, market share, win. Then you have to make an announcement and as a typical example, such an e-commerce company, where sometimes you just have to win market share and have to go a little harder because the competition is harder. And in the fourth quadrant, the control quadrant, so a very controlled process company, where you say, everything has to run the same for us. Because if something doesn't work, then it has a huge problem for our customers. There is typically a government like that. So you just have to control it. Or such an aviation startup or such a company. You can't go wrong in the processes when you, or a cybersecurity company has to be very, very controlled. And why do I say that? There are companies and profiles. Collaborate, create, compete and control. And there is an ideal profile for every company, at every point in time. And the profile changes from a young company to an older company. Something new is coming up. And suddenly, maybe a big AI trend or the internet. 20 years ago, maybe I have to change something in my culture. That means the macro trends or the industry trends sometimes change the culture that I need. Because what happened 20 years ago may no longer work. Maybe it will become more talented and I have to be more human-centered to get the best workers. And with that, culture, so to speak, as the enabler for strategy. And that's why it's important to have a vision of culture that matches the vision of films. And often there is no right or wrong, but that's good for our company. And tell me, if I think back to your example with the marketing colleagues, where they said, "Erik, what's the budget?" And then you said, "Darling, you're the professional here. Tell me what you need. I'll see if I can do it. But you're up for it." If they had said based on your question with, "Do you want advice or do you want..." What was the other approval? If you said, "No, no, Erik, I only want approval from you. I come from such a culture. I don't think it's worth it to get what I'm supposed to do. Who then is a person who doesn't fit in and so on? I mean, I would have to separate from people if I can't live with these values. Because it can also be that the existing company, the people who are there with the five values can't live at all, who may give the management from above. But you can't read thoughts, right? Because we also talk about actionable to do for leadership, and one of my points is, "Take timely action with non-believers." You can't keep someone who can't live the culture in the company. That's absolutely toxic. And it is after you explain it. We stay with the example, I say, "No, in our company there is no approval. We only have advice." And if that doesn't work, then there is no way forward. I often ask the question, how strong is your culture? Have you ever made a cultural fire? In the sense of someone who doesn't fit in, who is not fired because of professional excellence, but because of cultural property? And that is a sign for strong culture. So one of many signs. And tell me, if I talk about it now, you just opened cultural vision. So I need a cultural vision. It will be the company vision. How do I give you something like that? How do I manifest that? Or maybe, when I said values, it would be my first point of view. That means, how do I formulate values or what would you say are the manifestation elements with which I call a cultural vision ? We now have a base, a partnership with the culture, which I almost trust again, transparent, empowered, customer-centric, and a growth mindset. That is, what is true, people who have a good cultural base, then it is the typical way to formulate values. Are values or word groups? Something like, we are humble, we are hungry, we are concentrated, we are innovative. These are values. Values need a value description. That is very important. For example, if a value is transparent, I have to write, what is transparent for us? Why is that transparent? How do we live that? That is a value description, so to speak, so that all these abstract actions, which are a value, for example, if I am a manufacturer from Germany, and tradition is one of my values, because I want, I have body traditions, I have chronographs, where I turn my teeth. Then I have to write, why is it important for us? And how do we live that, so to speak, in basic artifacts, maybe there is something that each of our employees gets one of our chronographs for a two-year-old company jubilee. That is a so-called cultural artifact. Now we come to the implementation. So I'll summarize again. Values and value descriptions define values. And then you have to make a great distinction in terms of manifestation. Manifestations are, for example, when the value is tradition, that I am the traditional football club in the region, as an example. If the value is innovation, then I could say, for example, how Google did this, every Friday no one wants to do what he wants, and every employee gets a 100,000 euro moonshot budget and can do what he wants if he writes a report and says what he has learned. That means a manifestation is not directly on a value, but, so to speak, something that you do every day to the culture, yes, to manifest it, it is difficult without a concrete example, but when I say, for example, feedback and learning is important for us, because I might be a education starter. Then I have to say, how do we actually learn about it? Maybe that's how you use your own software for it, or how our feedback culture is exactly. That is to define and describe, helps to implement the culture in tactical ways. And now it comes to culture retrospective. At my previous company, for the first half of the year, I did a basic democratic process where every employee, every word of our culture code could comment on what other people could think of, and in real time, transparent, with a 2/3 majority. And for the first half of the year, I took half a day with the whole company, read this document and discussed every single point. That means that culture must also be lived and iterated. And if something does not fit, then it must be written out. And if it says in there, we do, we do, we do, and if it is not lived, then it is taken out. And that is the life of, so to speak, culture. Let me summarize briefly. Votes are abstract values. In difficult moments, you have to decide according to your values. If a decision is made. And otherwise, you do your day-to-day things according to the manifestations, according to the... very simple, we do meetings, we do feedback, but also, why are we innovative? What do we do to be particularly KPI-driven or competitive, depending on what you need? To be in your company. Because the company values, the abstract principles, they are again supported by the company. And now comes the clue, the actual clue. If you think about it all at once, then you can pay attention to who comes into the company in the recruiting. And if I have a company where people are traditional chronographers, if someone loves that, these traditional chronographs and understands this work, then he comes, feels at home, is engaged and does not go back. And just performs well. And there comes the puzzle together. And how would you say, you just described with these half-year-old stories where you sit down and say, "Okay, I'll listen to you." How do I measure culture otherwise? So that's so difficult, because it's invisible to many places. Or I can't take it if I'm not in the communication of my employees. That's what I've been thinking about for a long time, Joel. And that's one of the points that I'm almost doubtful about. There is a typical E-NPS, like the employee net promoter score, where you ask for a scale of 0 to 10 and everything above, so 9 and 10 are the promoters and everything below, up to 6 are the detractors, and then you can have such a score. The problem is, the score is not actionable. That means the number goes from 43 to 33 down. So what? That means you need deep, lying dimensions. We have read many, many books and we have developed 16 dimensions in four categories, how to measure culture. There is also the subject of mission. Is the mission clearly formulated? And the subject of direction. Do all of you go in the same direction or do you have current in the company? How do I feel about the company? How consistent is my leadership? Am I heard as an employee, the subject of voice? How high is the trust in our company? How good can I develop? How is the assessment in the company? That was the first eight. And then, so to speak, in the field of how adaptive we are to new trends, do we have the best people and can we keep them? How innovative are we? How empowered do we feel to meet ourselves as employees? How well do the teams work together? How concentrated are we? How can we keep customers and employees and, finally, how is the responsibility in our company? About the 16 dimensions, we have long, long books and thought about it. Can you summarize company culture? And what we do is we have developed a question mark with various statements that, so to speak, support it. The whole thing is evenly distributed. And in the end, we call it the culture score. And this scale is numbered from 0 to 100 percent. And there are investigations about it. That means I can mark the absolute benchmark and not relatively. If people give over score 8 in the average, then that is off the charts. Because you can simply think about it. Employees who are happy give like Net from Motorscore 9 or 10 and then you are over 80 percent. With the employees who are unhappy, we come back to the ENPS, which also has a 10 scale, so to speak, unhappy, under 6. And in the meantime, it is OK. That means we can now break down the 16 dimensions. Where is actually the haze in the pepper? And now it will be exciting. Then you can say in the culture score, that is always the first analysis phase that we do. Because we say culture has to be objective. You say, we have a problem in the area of consistency. Consistency of decision, consistency that we change our direction so quickly. You say, in this one dimension, I want to improve myself. And in the others, where I may already be good, I want to stick to it. And so you can measure over time. Because numbers are good and no longer a feeling of need. And with that, culture becomes a subjective feeling to an objectified business practice. So feeling of need is also good. But I understand what you mean, that it helps there to know which factor of the culture, where I have the biggest pain or where they have it with. That is the logical next question. I have that, yes, we measure E&PS. And it goes down or it goes up. But why? You want to ask the intuitive question, what is happening right now? And then the question is, you have to reason deeper into things. And then the next question is, ask people what it is about. But you can take that away and work directly with numbers. Come on, now to the back. I'm a fan of breaking things down in a cracky half an hour. Because an actionable to-do has already taken me down in terms of leadership. That was what you just said with the left out people. What are the other four things that you want to do with your whole hand? Yes, if there is conflict in an organization, you have to be precise and effective. And make it clear that cultural problems are not accepted. So be precise and effective. If there is a cultural problem in a company, it will be addressed quickly and directly and transparently and it will be made clear by leadership, that is not acceptable to break against our firm values. It is incredibly important not to let it fall under the table. Because we already said in the first episode, culture is the worst acceptable and tolerated behavior. There are rules here, and we stick to it. And it is important to repeat that again and again. So be precise and effective. As good leadership, you try to accept people with a boundary-less behavior. That means a colleague helps from not using a colleague and hence these stories of cultural excellence. That means there is this typical SAPO story where someone had a colleague over 8 hours on the phone in the customer service. There is a story with me in my already over 10 years, but it was told. We had an e-commerce company, Adidas Shoe and they were, we have falsely sold something and my colleague and a good friend of mine just sold the right pair of shoes on Amazon and sent the girl home. And that was selfless behavior. That was also empowered. Because he said on the phone, "I understood that shoes were football shoes for your son on his birthday and they won't come anymore. Sorry, we made a mistake, you need shoes. I'll order them now." And yes, we have the right pair of shoes on the other e-commerce dealer, but that was a selfless, boundary-less behavior. And that was a selfless, boundary-less behavior. I'm not talking about a workman, I'm talking about a workman, but something like that can lead to leadership powers. That's what my colleague said, "Come, something went wrong here. I'll sit down with you and we'll solve the problem together. It's actually not my job, but I'll help you." And this positive support leads to signature stories that tell people. People tell positive stories or negative. And what you want to do is to repeat it. That means, hey, do you know in the story where the camp was overthrown and we just decided that we all agree and where the boss made the extra shift and packed up to 12 packages at night? Those are stories that you should also tell and above all these stories in town halls to communicate positively. So keep telling those stories. And the last fifth point on my list today is, take the time for cultural planning and cultural iteration. I know, everyone has a lot to do. Everyone has a lot of big agenda points. Once a year, once a year, a half-day free of charge for a cultural reflection is simply best practice and leads to that the topic does not fall down. Okay, so I'll take it again. I'll do it with one, otherwise you'll do it alone. Conflicts, precision and effective management, selfless boundary, less behavior. Tell these stories. So make them visible. Take the time for cultural retrospectives and the fifth point we had before the entrance. If people don't fit into this system, be consistent and take it out otherwise. Should we add the fifth or the first episode? It will be a fact. Then we'll have 10. Then we'll have 5 more, if you get them all together. Sure. Be the cheerleader and not the top scorer. That means supporting your colleagues to have the best results. But it's not about shooting yourself as a leader. Also, do something that your colleagues wouldn't expect. For example, clean up the washing machine and clean up trash. Just when it's there. That's also a positive example. Make decisions based on the current firm values and the reasons they're with companies. Rather, hire fewer people. But pay more and make sure that they're engaged and motivated. Here's the calculation. An engaged colleague does the work of two people. But it might cost only 20-30% more. You've won a good deal. And last but not least, lead with questions instead of with answers. Look. I'm a bit nervous. The human machine is fine for us. I'm looking forward to our third episode. Let's talk about conflicts. In the third episode we'll talk about the typical cultural conflicts. I'm looking forward to that. Thank you for today. Stay healthy. Thank you for listening to the digital compact podcast. Thank you for listening to the digital compact podcast. I'm looking forward to our third episode. Stay healthy. Thank you for listening to the digital compact podcast. I'm looking forward to our third episode. Stay healthy. Thank you for listening to the digital compact podcast. I'm looking forward to our third episode. Stay healthy. Thank you for listening to the digital compact podcast. I'm looking forward to our third episode. Stay healthy. Stay healthy.