Finding Home Across Oceans

Introducing Luzia and Debunking International Student Myths OK, let's take 2. Speaker 2 Is it working? Speaker 1 Let's hope that it's working OK. Hi everyone, my name is Nisha. Welcome back to the Promise Pod. It's officially my second podcast. Thank you so much for being here. So today I am here with another one of my very good friends, Lucia. If you want to say a quick hi Lucia. Speaker 2 Hi everyone. Speaker 1 OK. So Lucia is here at Kenyatta. She's a Kenyatta student. And the reason I wanted to go ahead and interview Lucia for this podcast is because Lucia happens to be an international student. So if Lucia, if you could give like how long you been at Kenyatta, what you're studying, where you're originally from and those 3 for now? Speaker 2 OK, so as Nisha said, I'm an international student and I was born and raised in Venezuela. So yeah, South America. I'm just, I'm doing my second year at Kenyatta College now majoring in psychology. Yes. Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, that's amazing. I guess I really want to have this conversation about some, like, misinformation that people might have about international students. Because I feel like a lot of the time when we hear about international students, we think of these, like, rich individuals who can afford to, like, live out of the country and, like, willingly choose to move out, right. But of course, that's not always the case, and we understand that. But I kind of wanted to dive into that experience of kind of growing up in this, you know, this country and having to move. Luzia's Experience: Moving to the US at 19 So just a little more about like that, like your back story of like how you got to the States and how you got into like how you decided to go to Kenyatta. Speaker 2 Yeah, cool. Thanks for pointing out that not all the international students experience look the same or they're not based on the same. I particularly came to the United States with an exchange program, which is to some extent and privilege still. Yeah, decided to move out of my country for third reasons, right. And then pick this program of the opportunity to get in and lived and worked with American families. Speaker 1 For a while. Speaker 2 And then I decided to do something different with my family and it was Kenyatta College, open the doors surprisingly fast and lying warmly for me. That's why I decided to come here. It's a it's a important life decision for an international student, whether in the friendly of your background. It's pricey and it's it's a decision, right? So yeah, but I'm happy to be here. Speaker 1 That's wonderful. I'm happy you're here because then I never would have met you, but I wanted to kind of delve into like that experience of first coming here because what we talked about in the past is like, you worked here taking care of like American families and you, you were originally in New Jersey, right? And then you came to California. But how was that experience, that kind of cultural shift? And especially because I, I, so my parents came here as well from India, but they were a little older. So my mom was 21 and my dad was 31. But you came here at at 19, right? 19. So it's just kind of like how, how was that experience kind of annoying? You're like technically an adult, but like you're still like not a child, but like you're not fully grown to believe that yet, I'd say. Speaker 2 Well, that's, that's interesting. I guess when you take a decision of of that size when you're young or not, it's like whatever happens afterwards is growth. Speaker 1 In. Speaker 2 All the sense, all the sense possible, right? You're growing biologically, you're like developing your brain, whatever, but you're also trying to adapt so much information. I would kind of say it's easier in a sense than when you're 31 or something like that, because I want to think that you're more able to adapt more information faster. And yeah, probably, I don't know because I don't have another experience, but it was both choking and, and smooth in a sense. I never got too shocked or too, I don't know. It was, it was easy in a sense, I will say. "Smart in Spanish": Challenging Perceptions of Intelligence Yeah, I guess the question I have is, like in Venezuela, did you ever learn English? Like, because in India we have like schools where you can learn Hindi and English and it's like kind of like you do get tested on your English skills. So I was like wondering like, were you able to like learn English in those schools as well? So you had some knowledge when you came to America? Or was it like it was just like you were fluent in Spanish and and you were taught in Spanish and then you came here and you were like, what the hell is going on? Speaker 2 Yeah, General education back home, it's fully in Spanish. There is English as like a subject from high school, but it's really poor. It's really poor. It's really bad. Like you see verb to be and continuing and like over and over. And you never really like develop writing skills or critical, critical thinking skills in English at all. And then there's some private schools where you only learn English, but I was never part of that. Honestly, I think I just got lucky because my family is well educated and they taught me at home. And I remember being like 12 years old and they hired like a friend of the family who was fluent to speak with me in English. And we'll sit down and do whatever we're doing right now in English. And if I get stuck, they will like help me and stuff like that. I never took proper classes. And that was a jump because when I decided to come here, I was, I didn't know I could communicate. And then I see myself in the middle of Manhattan, NY like, can you please have a sandwich? And like, feeling confused about saying that, Yeah. Speaker 1 Right. It's like, can I just have food? Speaker 2 And that thing and pointed it out like what's the word for that specific thing I've brought? My English has improved a lot in just three years up in here. Speaker 1 Yeah, And I, I think that's so interesting because I feel like I, I only know English and even then sometimes I don't even have the right words to like distinguish what I'm thinking. But I remember hearing this like quote, ironically enough, from Modern Family, which is like so funny to me. But it was this part where Gloria, which is Sofia Regatta's character, she's like, I'm so smart in Spanish, but you'll never know that because you don't know Spanish. Like you think I'm dumb in English, but I'm not, you know, And I feel like that's so interesting because it's like, that's true. I mean, I feel like we have this, not we, I think there's this view that we have on people who like come to the states, right? And it's like they're here for a better education and they're here for a better life. But I think people tend to forget that. Like sometimes people like, like you said, like you had somewhat of like a nice education for having a translator, right? So how is it like, how is it to come to the States and kind of see how like immigrants or and refugees are like portrayed and having to like kind of battle that label of being seen as uneducated or not smart enough. Like how was your experience with that? Speaker 2 That's interesting because I feel like it also falls into a lot of rationalization, racial categories, categories like I'm Hispanic Latina and like my whole racial identity is labeled as non smart no matter what, right? And it's like harder to become a scholar person of your Latino and stuff, whether what like in the other hand, if you're like Japanese or like, yeah, you're expected to be like extra smart or above average where those things are just like social conventions. That's not real to any of the directions. I think I've been lucky because of the way I look in a way I don't get often like labeled as stupid, which I'm not happy with. Like I don't agree with that idea because I'm very white and like I have particular manners or whatever. Because again, my background is well educated. My family, they're all, they all have higher education. Yeah. I don't think it's fair to think that because someone comes from a place that means they're stupid. Speaker 1 Right. Speaker 2 Or because they don't speak English, that means they're stupid? That's not true. I. Speaker 1 Think it's, it's really interesting that you say that because like, you're right, you know, I feel like it's, it's so different because when I, I feel like I'll see this on social media, right? Where it's like an Asian person is like a doctor and everyone's like, well, that's expected. Like, yeah, obviously they're a doctor. Like you're Asian. And then you'll see like a Latina like who's a mechanical engineer or a doctor or, or something that's like of a high respectable position. And everyone's like, that must have been so hard. And you did that, like you earned that. And I, I think that's so interesting because it's like what really dictates what we earn and what we don't, what dictates how smart we are, you know, And I feel like it, it, it's kind of cost us to have this like shield of like when we see someone who is Asian and they're like, talking about like their successes. Like we're like, oh, well, like obviously like that's a given, you know, fork found in the sinks, like fork found in the kitchen. But then it, it puts that pressure of like, hey, like we need 2/6. And I'm saying it's a South Asian. So like I know all about like the comp site engineering route, right? And so it's like, it's so interesting because when you're kind of when you get away from that mold, it's like, well, why is that? Like you should have this like you should follow what I see as you. But then it's so different with like Latinas or like black women where it's like, hey, like I'm going to have this really huge position and it's going to be amazing. And they're automatically like, well, that's going to be hard for you. Are you sure you want to take in that time commitment? Like that's a really hard major and it's like not expected by them. And I think that's so interesting because like, either way, we don't win. Speaker 2 Right. Speaker 1 You know, and like, I just, I guess how, how do you, how do you make people understand that? Because I feel like even if you don't want to, like sometimes you like we unintentionally do, right? We're like, Hey, why do we have this belief? So I feel like, are there ever, I guess this switch on my question? It's like, is there ever a time where you are not doing the best in a class or you're like, I'm saying this in quotes, you guys, but you're like flying into a stereotype and like, how do you stop yourself from like falling into that headspace? Like maybe that's true. Like maybe I am that stereotypical like stupid person or like uneducated person. Overcoming Self-Doubt and Owning Your Imperfections That's, that's a, that's a question of that. I mean, for me particularly just to go back again a little bit. I, I come from a well educated family. So I always thought that might be my path anyway, which is a full different topic and we can talk about in a different situation. But I never thought for myself, no, I cannot or I should not or I should be home raising my kids because that's the biggest stereotype if we fall into it. But then again, it plays back in the sense that if I'm not being the best of the class or throwing the smartest comments or like being so bright and sharp with my thoughts, then I might be doing it wrong and this might not be my place. I just have accepted that I'm going to say stupid things sometimes. That's part of it, right? Yeah, I think I have accepted it. How did I get there? Or I I don't have a precise answer for that. I just. I just think it's natural and normal, Right? Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, that's understandable. I think when you grow up in a community of like, not of having people who have like, who are well educated, you're kind of like, yeah, well, like I'm well educated because you're in this like, not this headspace, but this like your race to be, you know, like curious and ask questions and no more. And I think that's so interesting 'cause I think a lot of times when like people come to the States and she's like, especially at a young age, they're like forced to assimilate, right? And so I feel like that pressure of having to assimilate and then a lot of times failing to do so, kind of like it's like a Jenga tower, right? It just kind of like topples over at one wrong move. So I think it's. Speaker 2 Wow, that was impressive, Yeah. Speaker 1 You know, I, I really like your, your ability to trust in yourself because I think when we're in new environments, we kind of learn to question everything, but we never trust ourselves in that aspect. Speaker 2 Just to kind of round it up, I, I think the more you take yourself serious or the more you start trusting yourself even, it's effectively making thing you end up like facing this knowledge, like I just know that I don't know and things like that. That's like part of a process that actually boosts your capacities and your intellectual abilities. And then I see myself having a full intellectual conversation in English, you know? But that's only possible if I'm able to admit that I didn't know how to name an object in a specific moment or. Speaker 1 Stuff like that, right. So it's it's kind of like you take the millisecond of being wrong or being embarrassed or like ashamed. So you're confident in the future? Speaker 2 Own it. Just own it. Speaker 1 Own it, owning it. Yeah. And, and I feel like that's something that's not normal here. I feel like America is so like strong willed in a way where like, if you're wrong, you can't admit that because people are going to shame you. So I, I think it's kind of refreshing that you're able to, like, understand that. No, like you need to own that and admit that. Like sometimes there's just stuff you don't know and that's fine. Speaker 2 It means you can know it's a. It's a good sign, actually. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, That's beautiful. I, I think your way of, of like your perspective of the world, it's, it's just so beautiful because I think what I really love about you is that you're able to have this like distinction of people where they don't even see like how you, I mean, it's going to sound like word soup, but you see them in such a way that it kind of opens their eyes to how they're perceived, you know, But I, I guess I'll listen to my next question of like, when you came to the states, was there anything you were scared of besides like the general anxiety of moving to a new country? Like where? Confronting Stereotypes and Fears About the US What were those like doubts and fears you had Where? Like, now you're here? Like you're in this point in your life where? Like, I can't believe I was ever scared of that. Speaker 2 That's, that's fun. I think I was scared of everything. I was scared of the size. I'm I come from a very, very small city and then I'm suddenly dropped in the middle of the East Coast. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, and you were in Manhattan. Speaker 2 Super industrial, I was in New Jersey but I would like move between New York and New Jersey off really big. Speaker 1 Cities, yeah. Speaker 2 Huge. And then the amount of faces that you see everywhere that you will never see in your life again and the movement and like the city's got a specific sound of like millions of things happening. And I was shocked by that. But then I felt like the curiosity, it's just like, I can't help it. I was very scared of it's a stereotype and I apologize for it, but like some type of danger. I would stereotype the United States for half with the guns and the craziest and the amount of psychopaths. I was really scared about it, seriously. And I was like, I did child care for a long time. And I remember at least half my friends back home told me like, oh, what about school shootings and stuff. And I'm like, oh. Speaker 1 I actually never had to think about that. Speaker 2 You know, no, no, I didn't think about it. And then and then I thought about it and then I'm like, oh, wow. I was generally scared of those things. Yeah. And then I'm here and I'm like, OK, there's a lot of stories about it. Or there is like a the mediatic kind of aspect of it. The fact that it's it's real. I'm not denying it, but it's not like something that's happening every day in every school or like there's psychopaths in all the world, you know, like not only the United States. I guess the fact that the United States got so many cameras on it and stuff makes it like stronger for an outsider and. Speaker 1 I get what you mean like like I think we're so accustomed that when we're doing something new, it's like our fears and dangers, specific places are are like hiding. Do you know? And I can relate because my parents, like when I was younger, they would never let me go to like different cities all like San Francisco or like even Palo Alto. And they were scared of me getting kidnapped and like potentially hurt. And it wasn't until I was like, well, I think it potentially hurt here where I live. But you trust me, like go like go places alone. And I see myself doing that a lot with other places. I'm scared of. I'm like, I'm so scared that someone's going to, like, attack me here and like, aha, my friends have to bring me like down to earth. And they're like, you'd get attacked walking home. Like, let's be honest, like you can get hurt walking home. You can get hurt like anywhere. And it's just because these things are so hidden. Their fears are so hidden. You forget that happens in different countries, you know? Yeah. But I think that's a fair fear because I think that like it's it's, it's like when you hear so much about 1 country that's so like isolated or like highlighted, you forget that it's like a universal thing, that it's a global thing. Yeah. And especially because I feel like the US has a lot of privilege. And even if like we fail to acknowledge it, we do compared to different countries, you know? Navigating Cultural Differences: Venezuela to the US And I, I guess that's also like another question I had because like Percy, I feel like the, the cultural difference in India and the US is huge because India is very like together, like very family oriented and like friendship oriented and America's very like individualistic. So I guess my question is if like Venezuela was the same of like very family oriented? And if so, like, how did you account for that change of like that individualistic American culture? Speaker 2 So yeah, I'll, I'll feel identified with those like background values, family is very important, friends are very important. Might be overly important. Like it's all around that, you know, yes, yes. And I guess it was hard to like, find myself without that in a sense. But then I recognized that from my experience, I was lacking the other way, you know, like working on a individual career, working on my individual skills. Or like all that was not my family or all that was not my friends or my home or my last name. In a sense, you know, everything that is just me. Only here I have having the chance to work because that's what society is telling you to do right yourself. Do it yourself. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 You could do this yourself and I might not feel like overly identified with that, like I don't think it's about the self only, but I have learned a lot from that experience I guess. Speaker 1 Do you think that coming from like a very family oriented and community oriented country to like an individualistic country has given you more freedom or isolated you both at the? Speaker 2 Same time. Well, freedom, it's it's a problematic word right now. We will have to like define what that mean, but that means. But I think he, it has empowered me in a sense, but only because I have the background of my family and and my friends supporting my values and where the things I stand for because those things are so strong, I can individually work on whatever else that will help me stay closer to those values. Does that make sense? Perhaps if I didn't have a strong bond with with, with, with that's with my family, with my country, with, with my communities, I will just be super selfish or or not work and things for others or not care. But yeah, it's more like a complimentary experience, I guess. Speaker 1 It's it's more like a foundation. Is that like return, like it's kind of like you are kind of thriving here because you have that foundation of support that you know you have back home? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, totally. And just like that. Speaker 1 That's really interesting. I, I think like growing up in America, like you're kind of like, even from a young age, you're taught to do stuff alone. You know, like you, you grow up with this mentality of like, you need to learn not to ask for help and you need to learn to like, not rely on, I mean, even here, like you don't talk to your neighbors. And I think that's so crazy because like in India, like our neighbors in India have known me since I was like a child, like a baby. So to me, in this environment where that's not really acknowledged is always so interesting to me because I'm like, if anything, that caused me to be more antisocial until I like had to like get out of my shell, you know, and be like, OK, like if I want to go against this individualistic like claim, like I need to do that. But I think that's it's really interesting, right? Like the the aspect of self-control. And I guess how do you handle that like living because you live with family here. But I imagine that a big part, like the decisions you make every day and the actions you do, they're, they're kind of you have to decide how you want to work around that. So I guess like how because you had to learn like what you wanted and how to control what you needed at a young age, moving here at 19 and like basically traveling to the East Coast. How do you, how did you feel like that helped or like, do you feel like that helped or that didn't help? Do you wish that like you had more guidance like the older you got or like how do you think that? I don't know if I'm like wording this correctly, but like, do you think the help or like at 19 like that? Are you happy that you were forced to make your own decisions at 19, or do you wish that like you had help until like 22? Speaker 2 I guess I'm, I guess I'm satisfied. I'm like happy. It's just wrong thing. I, I accepted for what it is. And then again, this culture with its individualistic tendencies has taught me to take care of myself better than than I could have done back home. Because back home, you always have mommy there, you know? And I love my mom, but I need it. I needed to get out of the shell and I needed to. I keep needing to fail often, but then again, I found traits in my personality that align perfectly with what this society expects of me. Like I'm extremely good doing schedules and like being on time for things and like to kind of questionable extreme honestly. But then then I like it to some point, to some point. I would not like my whole life based on that or with it with that purpose. But yeah, I know. Just to go back to your question, I think I I have seen myself benefit benefits benefited from it. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 But that might not be the overall experience. I've had friends who came the same way that I did or that I met through the program who broke down because of that. You know, it's a tough system. You. Yes, it is. Staying Grounded While Far From Home It is. And I guess how how was your experience with that with like I, I think the best way I could, I think about it when it's like isolating, it's just like it's quiet, right? But sometimes it's too quiet. It's like eerily quiet. Like how did you deal with that quietness? Speaker 2 I like it, but then again, it links to my personality because I have like trained some like meditation skills and things where you purposely need to quiet everything and be foreign by yourself. But then then the the quietness is it's just an illusion when you get out of you, actually everything's in movement and everything's like too noisy for my opinion, in my opinion. Speaker 1 Oh yeah. Can you elaborate? Speaker 2 What do you mean? Like I need like a more. Speaker 1 Precise question. OK, So like I'm saying, like I think a lot of times people are too stuck in their head, especially when you're so isolated from like people. How do you how do you know to not put yourself in that headspace? Speaker 2 Interesting. Speaker 1 Like how do you know that? Like you, you have a support of your family back home, right? And so I guess my question is, how do you make sure you're taking care of yourself without, without feeling like you're alone? Because I think a lot of times when people are, like, thinking of self-care, right, which is like something we should all be doing a big part of, like, hang out with your family, talk to your family, talk to the people you love, like, hang out with friends. And I imagine that can be hard since, like, your community is literally, like, in another country. So aside from, like, the friends you made here, how do you ground yourself and, like, understanding that like, yeah, my family's across like, the ocean, but I can still practice my love for them and myself, care around them. Speaker 2 Well, well, I think I told you this last time on our first take or something, but and it ties back to one of the answers just recently that I kind of just have them present all the time. Like they they have built the foundation for me to stay still for things I care for. So even when I'm doing these things for myself. And sometimes right now, I'm leaving again with my family, but I spent a full year living alone and I could spend literally 12 hours not talking at all. And it feels weird. You feel like you're very lonely and these things. Are you putting yourself out in the world every day and then coming back home by yourself every day? These things, I just keep finding my reasons and everything I do, it's romantic to the extent that I see in the colors and the nature I see in the smile of people. I'm like, yes, like I'm not alone, but that's also the nature of my intellectual curiosity, like psychology, the care and curiosity about people. It's also the nature of like, that contrast between like a very community oriented society and then of individualistic ones, like the point in where all those things meet. It's where I flow the best. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 That's a really beautiful way to look at it. And and you also said like in the past that like everything just reminds you of like, like, oh, that flower reminds me of my mom or like that tree reminds me of like my friend. And I think that's really beautiful because I think like that just gives you an opportunity to like, first of all, just like look out into the world and see like what we're surrounded by. But it's also like everything connects you back to home. And that's like such a beautiful thing because you can feel like thousands of miles away and can be thousands of miles away, but there's always going to be something that connects to you and kind of like runs through you like a current, you know? And I like to imagine that like when a current runs through me and like everyone in my family kind of feels that current, you know what I mean? It's like, like, it's like, it's like. Have you ever watched Avatar Last Airbender? Speaker 2 Yeah, of course. Speaker 1 You know, when ANG enters the avatar state and he can like see the past avatars, like line up, I like to think of my feelings like that. Like they kind of like line up and they're like, we're here. Speaker 2 Just to kind of put it in other words, not only connects me back home, but brings them here where I'm at exactly. You know, it's like they're inside of me and they're part of me and they're in my jeans and they're in my name and they're in the way I do things and they're, they are everywhere. How to Navigate Limited Resources as an International Student And then I guess this other question I have for you as an international, like from an international point of view, it's like I imagine getting resources here was kind of hard at 1st and that's kind of like the easy way to put it. I know they were just a mess to get through. So I guess my question is like, how did you try to find those resources that are meant to help students like you or like that kind of made your life easier? Like how did you know that you needed help and to hold yourself accountable and be like, I need to see what I can do about that. Speaker 2 That's a curious question. I guess I can only bring in bring it up to when I moved to California and decided to become a student. So I've been here before that, but it is true that as an international student, the resources are limited, limited, limited. Speaker 1 Limited. It's OK Californians don't pronounce their TS. So either way you said it correctly. I keep. Speaker 2 Doing it, I keep imitating it. It's so bad. OK, we have limited resources and but that doesn't mean there's nothing. And the mom and I recognize that I was like, I had to put myself out there and figure out the things that I care for, blah, blah, blah. And kind of back to the past answer. It's like, OK, I need so many things, but where are those things? That's the first, the first question that I made myself. I was like starting and I'm like, oh, where's this book? I need to understand this specific thing. And then you literally search it up. It's at the library first, is it it? It is like a slow process in the sense that the answers are not all in the same place and the same person doesn't have all the programs or all the things that can provide you support. But the best way of coping with it is making the question. Even if you think it's not a good question, just make it. Speaker 1 Making a question. Speaker 2 Just make the question, hey, where is, do you know if there's like like a Health Center here? Oh, yes, there is. They'll take you there and I've been just lucky because I'm in a place where the answer is going to be around somewhere. You'll find that the answer is there. Speaker 1 Yeah, that's really, that's, I think that's kind of like nice to like think about like, yeah, just ask a question. That's just like a nice way of just like simplifying the whole just ask a question like the worst it can be like is no right. Like do you guys have a built in movie theater? Probably not. Do you guys have a library? Yeah, we do. You know, I, I think that's a really nice way to think about it 'cause I think a lot of times people say like you have to be into the, you have to be like just really self aware. But like you're right, like sometimes you're just not self aware as you want to be. And a good place to start. It's just like, hey, like do you know where this is or do you have access to this or do you know where I could get this resource? Don't Give Up: Final Advice and Podcast Wrap-up Yeah, well, thank you so much Asia for joining me and re recording and my time out of your day. Thank. Speaker 2 You for inviting me? Speaker 1 Of course, if what is I guess one thing you want to say to students who might not be as educated on the experience like an international student or just for the students in general? Speaker 2 Who? I don't think just again, again, make the question whatever it's like concerning you or that you identify that it's stopping you or that you think might stop you from doing what you want in school, make the question and the answer is around, you know, don't give up. It's around. Yeah. Speaker 1 And if you guys want to ever talk more to Lucia about her wisdom and her experiences, she is a peer mentor just like me, except she where does she work? Speaker 2 I'm at the Learning Center in the second floor of Building 9. Speaker 1 That's right, she's actually here for the career exploration areas. And what's what specific exploration area are you in? Speaker 2 And was it arts and like undecided? Speaker 1 Right, so if you ever have questions about an art major or if you don't even have a major and you're undecided, go ahead and ask Lucia. She's probably sending you those emails right now as we speak. But yes, thank you so much, Lucia. Thank you for taking time out of your day and thank you to the people listening. Make sure to do your Promise incentives surveys. And thank you so much for listening. Happy March. Hey guys, if you really liked this podcast, please let us know. I'm always open to feedback and areas of improvement, so I would definitely appreciate it. Some reminders are please, please, please meet with your counselor. We're supposed to do one a month, so check in with your counselor. They miss you, you probably miss them. Why not? On top of that, please make sure to do your incentives each month. We really want you guys to attend at least three workshops. I'm sorry, a semester so tender workshop. Fill out the incentive form, get free money. That's amazing. And well, yeah, you guys make sure to end the day with a good moment in mind and don't be afraid to let us know whatever you need. Thank you so much. This is Nisha, and this is officially the end of my podcast.