19. Finding Freedom from Survival Mode with Håvard

For over four decades you've been wired to desperately scan your environment to not do anything wrong. I remember my dad kicking in a door to the bathroom, me standing on the outside and my mother and my two sisters standing in the bathroom. What does that feel like in your body? It kind of feels unsafe but at the same time like I think more deeply about it it's kind of this frustration or anger as well. What is it like as a man, constantly as a husband, as a father, constantly living in the world of, make sure you don't do anything wrong? What does that feel like to live like that? I want you to consider it's a lens that you look through. Whatever you do don't fuck up, whatever you do don't make a mistake, whatever you do don't upset anybody. That's exhausting. It's not who you are, it's a role that you learn to do at a very young age that has become so embedded in the way that you relate to life that that's now. Well pleasure to meet you. Pleasure to meet you too. How do I pronounce your name correctly? It's a hovat. Hovat. Okay, is that where you from? Is that German or, no I'm from Norway. Oh okay, I'm always living in Denmark. Okay, amazing. There are two countries I've yet to actually visit. So I've got, I've got them on my list to make it sometime to get there. I hear they're both beautiful people, beautiful countries with beautiful people. So, well welcome to Finding Freedom podcast. I got your video and I did my best to sort of unpack what you were sharing about the pressure that you feel and how sometimes I can build up, build up and then there's maybe a bit of an explosion and how it's impacting your relationship with your wife and you have two daughters I believe. So, but just for myself and the viewers, the audience, I'd love to get a better understanding of what it is that you feel you're struggling with or how I can help you. Yeah, well, I think it's several things that kind of building up the pressure. Okay. But I think, I mean, I have a full-time job and I'm also trying to set up my own company on the side as well. Okay, part-time. At the same time as I have two daughters of almost three and four years old. Okay, beautiful. Yeah, and then there's, I mean, there's not a lot of time to have or to build on the relationship with my or romantic relationship with my wife. Yeah, it's more practical stuff and then there's things that work. I mean, I'm trying to set up my company and I have this fear of not making it with my own company. That's also because I've tried to work as a personal trainer on my own before and now I'm working as a physio. But yeah, I'm afraid to fail or I guess I didn't fail last time but I didn't get the business that I wanted to last time. I'm trying to set up something on my own. So now this fear returns at the same time as I'm trying to be a great dad for my daughters and a great partner for my wife and and there's my mother as well, my adding to the pressure as well, trying to be a great son but feeling the pressure from her that she's missing her grandkids. Okay, got it. Okay, well, I acknowledge your efforts for all of the different departments that you're wanting to excel in and be great. I think that's a beautiful intention but I can feel the stress that that creates. When you were talking about your business that you tried before, was that the same? You were trying to do a personal training business. Now I'm trying to do a physiotherapy business. Okay, but just independently, just do your own thing versus working within a big firm. Yeah. Okay, got it. But before it was you tried to be a personal trainer. Yeah, that was before I became a physiotherapist. So that's several years ago. Okay, okay, perfect. And how long have you been married? We married in 21. Okay. Oh, yeah, I've almost five years. Okay, beautiful. And so you're obviously familiar with my work. You've heard me on podcasts or I'm assuming you're obviously a member of Freedom membership. Yes. So you've done a lot of the courses. So what would you say, based on however familiar with my teachings, what might be some of the things that Hoverd is kind of struggling with right now? What might be some of your limitations, do you think? I guess it's trying to manage everything. For sure, I can hear that. Well, let's go back to maybe things that might be easier to recall. So you mentioned your mum and there's sort of a little bit of pressure from her, like that is, like she wants to spend more time with her granddaughters, spend more time probably seeing you maybe as well. But what is your relationship like? Is your dad still alive? Is they still together? No, he passed, that was in 2012. Okay, he passed a while ago. Yeah. And they divorced when I was nine or 10 years old. Okay. And what was that like for you when you were nine or 10? I mean, that was. I've always thought of it as a good thing that they divorced because they were not good together as well. They were like, I'm tempted to say cats and dogs. But yeah. So, I mean, one nagging the other one and my father or my mother, I don't remember exactly what what it was all about. But there was a lot of arguing and fighting, not like physically fighting as I remember. But there were definitely threatening situations. I remember like that kicking in a door to the bathroom, me standing on the outside and my mother and my two sisters standing in the bathroom. Okay. Yeah. That must have been quite scary. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't remember much fear. It's more like just kind of trying to freeze or to stay invisible until everything's settled and it's kind of safe to yeah to show myself or to. No, I get it. Yeah. I get it. Well, I'm sorry, we went through that. That's no fun for any kid. When you say like you try to stay hidden or quiet, like what when you feel. when you say those words now, what does that feel like in your body? I'm kind of sensing this same kind of it's like racing inside of me. Yeah. And kind of. It kind of feels unsafe. Yeah, that's definitely one of the constraints that I hear that you're stuck in. You're unsafe. Yeah. And but at the same time, if I think more deeply about it, it's kind of this frustration or anger as well. If I kind of get past that unsafe feeling. Yeah. And yeah, so yeah. And I think that's this kind of anger also shows up a lot in my relationship with my mom. I easily get angry with her. Yeah. And like, on patience or. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. And what are the main triggers sort of inspire that. What are the things she says that typically get you angry? I mean, it could be anything like if we're in a social setting, then it could be the stories that she's telling or I'm kind of becoming impatient by how she tells it or I feel and need to correct some of the facts or. I guess that might have been something that my dad used to do as well. Tell stories that weren't quite true about you or. No, I mean, that he's like being in the same way as I am. Oh, he would get frustrated at his wife, your mum as well. Yeah, I'm not getting angry and impatient. Yeah, I can see that. I'm also sometimes. Or my wife says she sometimes get the feeling that I'm breathing her down her neck and kind of trying to control the situation. Yeah, no, I can see that. It makes sense. What would be one of the examples of a story your mum might tell about you, especially as you said in a social setting that isn't quite true or creates frustration? Well, it doesn't necessarily have to be about me. It can be about anything. Oh, okay. Just any story. Is there anything that comes to mind? What was one recently or the last time you got angry or frustrated? I should have a hard time recalling anything at the moment. I was okay. Well, you know, you recalled certain things like your dad and you being outside the bathroom, him kicking the door, and that was a scary moment. Were there any other times where you were disciplined, you know, like it sounds like the cats and dogs were mostly between your dad and your mum, but. No, it is. Well, it could. My dad could sometimes not have, I guess, some sort of disciplining, but like he was getting so mad that he's like kind of trying to scare us into. Yeah. Yeah. But he wouldn't do any physically. Okay. It's just screaming or emotional, but enough to make you feel very scared. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. So he could use his voice to shout on it. Yeah. Enough. Yeah. And it was you and you had two sisters, you said? Yeah. And they're older, younger, where. They're younger. So they're like four and seven years younger. Okay. So you were the oldest? Yeah. And I remember my parents has told us that we were behaving so well like when we were out and for example we were going to church every Sunday when my parents were together and people always told them like how well we behaved. But I guess that's more because we're just okay, we wanted to. Or actually, or at least I wanted to avoid any confrontation afterwards. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a good place for us to sort of go a little deeper because that's the energy I hear is avoidance, right? So what is it that Hobart is really trying to avoid is that little boy? I guess that would. I would try to avoid like being disciplined or like confronted in. Yeah. Yeah. So if you look at it, I know you said it doesn't necessarily feel fear but I want you to consider as little boy, you're definitely scared, right? If you're being really well-behaved, think about a trained animal who's been hit many times when it does certain things so that it's now. It's going to. It's being conditioned to not act a certain way but to act a certain way in order to avoid any consequences, right? So as you feel into that energy, whether it's now or remembering moments at church or outside of the bathroom door, which is a scary moment, there's a lot of violence going on, there's a lot of anger going on and that little boy is like, as you said, hiding trying to be quiet not to create any kind of ramifications. What does it like to be in that energy? It's scary. Very scared. Yeah. How does it feel in your body? It's kind of like this shaky feeling. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of hard to describe but I'm definitely feeling some tightness in your chest. Yeah. It's almost like. I still feel that I can't really open that space up. Yeah, I get it. I definitely feel there's something but it's buried so deep inside that it's yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, you're doing great. You're obviously a very sensitive man and I can only imagine as a little boy you are incredibly sensitive and maybe a little shy and you know when you're in the face of a very scary big man, even though it's your dad, that really has a lasting impact that's still impacting you today, right? It's really it's part of what you're feeling is this pressure because if you think about it, any being whether it's a human and animal as I said earlier that is being told to behave in a certain way, what are you what are you really trying to avoid? You're trying to avoid doing what? I'm trying to to avoid like poking the beer. Yeah, perfect. So poking the beer if we were to keep it as a generalization, you don't want to do anything wrong. Exactly. Now think about that. Now I want you to consider how hard your whole nervous system is wired, conditioned and has been how old are you now? 45. Yeah, so for over four decades you've been wired to desperately scan your environment constantly 24/7 to not do anything wrong. Now as I share that how does that hit you? You've been wired conditioned your whole orientation the way your brain works in order to survive is don't do anything wrong because you know this is still your young boy that there are ramifications, those consequences you could get in trouble, you could get hurt, dad's going to get angry, you're going to piss him off, right? All of that whole world of stuff that you're trying to avoid. Now can you just feel as I explain if you're living in a nervous system is trying not to get anything wrong desperately? Can you feel the pressure of that? Yeah, but it feels like there's so much pressure from that that I can't really get that pressure off. No, I understand, but that's because it's become normal I see as a human being whenever we're conditioned from our young ages, which we all are to varying degrees, some very traumatic, some more benign, you know, you also would say sort of in the middle, it wasn't great but you weren't hit, you weren't like sexually abused, you weren't like punished, you know, it was more emotional, it was more the fear of your father's look or the sound of his voice or the loudness, right? The anger, that's terrifying for a kid. So it's become normalized such a young nervous system is 24/7 on alert, meaning that you are scanning its vigilance, right? Vigilance means like you're observant but with fear, right? So you're constantly looking out for and this is automated, it's not even your choice, it's just the way your nervous system is wired. To make sure not only that you don't do anything wrong, but probably that no one else does anything wrong, right? Which is when you said you feel your wife said she feels like you breathe down her neck, that's the extension of that. Can you see that? Yeah. So now as you start to like just as we unpack this and go a little deeper, what is it like as a man, constantly as a husband, as a father, constantly living in the world of, make sure you don't do anything wrong? It's exhausting, totally exhausting, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, how does that maybe impact you physiologically? You know, you obviously have studied the body or have physiotherapist, you understand training? Like what do you think some of the impacts are on your body? Well, it must be taxing being in this constant and alertness. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you understand the autonomic nervous system, sympathetic parasite. Yeah. Yeah. And I've tried to use like workouts and meditations and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of cool things down and kind of manage the symptoms. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. That's kind of just putting out fires temporarily. Yeah. I call it whip cream on shit is the expression I use. And again, I don't want to in any way minimize or dismiss your attempt. So I think it's, you know, I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. It feels like I have this, what's it called these kind of limitations that I'm I'm not able to break free of. But I know I can like feel there there. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And that's also some of the things I've been putting on top like like self-improvement works and podcasts and videos and mini courses and yeah, just to self-improve and to become a better, if it's your personal trainer and yeah. Yeah. Which I really acknowledge. I think, you know, you're obviously a beautiful man and you care about your family. And I know that there's a bit of shame and guilt that you carry about the way that you sometimes speak to your mom or you speak to a wife and you don't feel good about it because I see a sweetheart who's got a big heart. You're a lover. You want to help people clearly in your career. You change people's lives or help them overcome injuries or shortcomings. You know, like it's clear to me who you are, but you're living in an invisible prison. Right. And so not only is your capacity to make a difference limited, but your capacity to be joyful and to be free is also immensely limited. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely feel some years ago. I really, I've never had a problem with alcohol, but I really enjoyed getting a few drinks with my friends and stuff because I felt more joyful and reliant. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. And I really appreciate you being vulnerable and sharing that because that also could be something that you might be embarrassed about, especially within the world of don't do anything wrong, right. You could use that as an example of more judgment or shame that you could have, right. So I'm glad that you shared because this is a safe space. So thank you and that you can see why a lot of people do drink alcohol or do smoke weed or do take street drugs or even get prescription drugs or they are addicted to sex or food. You know, there's different ways that people try to find relief from this internal prison, which is what my commitment is to help people get out of those constraints that is part of what I call the 1.0 mindset, right. The world that we live in today is driven by limitation, fear and suffering, basically. So yeah, it makes total sense that even a man of your integrity and commitment to being a professional and a good husband and a father that yeah, you you found some relief in alcohol. I get it. It's totally fine. So go ahead. No, also to add to the pressure I'm in my teenage years, I also kind of felt a little bit proud about like what's it called? I mean, my dad used to be perfectionist in his younger years and I kind of adopted that perfectionist mindset or like way doing everything perfect or not everything but like certain things I did with perfection. Yeah, and did you get acknowledged by him when you did things like that? Yeah, he thought it was funny thing or like, oh yeah, you're just like me. Yeah. Yeah. So think about that dynamic between a young boy and his father who pretty much very young boy is his idol at some level until there's such a disconnect through abuse that the the kid can sometimes become defiant or rebel, but here you are, we've already seen one side of the coin, which is absolutely terrified of doing anything wrong because of upsetting your dad, but then it makes sense. There's only reinforces the pressures you said because you got acknowledged when you did things that he approved of. So now you start to see, wow, your whole orientation is basically doing everything you can to keep dad happy and definitely not to upset him. Yeah. And my mom is also sort of a well not perfectionist, but she has I'm always I recently discovered that I'm seeking her acknowledgement for sure all the time and every time I get disappointed. And that's why you get angry and impatient, right? Because you're finding a battle that you can't win. It's futile. So yeah, what I hear in your mom's energy is more judgment, right? Your dad was more angry and upset, but your mom by the sounds of it was quite critical. She's very opinionated, right? So again, you put this triumvirate now like you're doing everything you can to appease your dad so that he acknowledges you, be seen in a good light by your mom, but at the same time doing everything you can not to upset anybody. Right there, just even as I said, I can feel the pressure. That's insane, right? Especially for a child. Yeah. So even there, you had a nice little bit of a ex-help. Do you feel that? Your body a little bit of release. Just as we're bringing awareness to it, right? Which is the first start. We've got to bring like, you know, Carl Jung had a great quote. He said until you bring the unconscious conscious, it will drive your life and you'll call it fate. So what we're doing here is through awareness bringing these unconscious ways that you've been patent programmed and conditioned to the surface so that we can fundamentally investigate them, which is, you know, what we're going to head to. So let's go a little lair deeper. If your concern and beyond concern scared of doing anything wrong as a behavior, what must that mean about Hover about you? If you're worried that you can do something like do anything wrong, what does that say about you? That I'm not good enough. Yeah. I would say that's part of it. That's a precursor to perfectionism, right? The perfectionism is a coping strategy. So ironically, you've actually inherited the legacy of your dad. I know this might be hard for you to hear, but your dad having explosions and anger and frustrations, you have maybe to a less degree, but you show those too, right? You said that. You get angry and frustrated inpatient with your mom. So ironically, and this is, you know, how mimicking and family dynamics works, you sort of taken on the same predispositions and conditioning as your dad. Now, you're a more evolved soul. You've come out at a later time in the timeline of consciousness. You're very discerning and conscientious. So you're trying to work on it. It doesn't sound like your dad tried to work on it at all, right? So we're a more evolved species here, which is great with you. But the perfectionism that he had would have also been a coping strategy for probably how his dad spoke to him, right? I don't know how well you remember his dad, your grandfather. But there was probably a continuation of this very disciplined, you know, at times hostile and abusive energy that he also experienced, right? Yeah. I never met his parents, but I heard that my grandmother, she had like this note hanging behind the curtain in the kitchen, like, don't say anything or something. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Again. So being raised in a bit of a prison environment, which wasn't too difficult, different to you, right? So this is now what was at once a physical form of a prison is now become an emotional psychological, right? You're not living with your dad. You're not living with your mom, your dad is past, you know, but you're still living in the same environment and conditions, right? That's what we're wanting to reveal. Yeah. This is every human being on the planet. So to go back to the question, if you're living from a place where you're scared that you could do something wrong, what does that say about who you must be? Right? Now you said you're not good enough. That's part of it. But it's actually a little bit darker for you. It's a little bit heavier. What does that mean? If you do something wrong, what does that mean about you as a boy that you're bad? Yeah. That you're bad. They're just sit with that. Now, I know psychologically and consciously, you could say, you know, you're not a bad person, but don't you feel bad like even when your wife says you're breathing down her neck, don't you feel bad when you get angry at your own mom? Like there's shame there, right? There's guilt. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just when I was just shouting at my kids, yeah, you feel like a bad dad. Yeah. Yeah, and I just sit with that, my friend, this, this, this Domination nervous system. What does it like to feel that at the deepest level you said this stuff you can't access at stock? Now we're getting to that level. What does it like to walk around not thinking this but feeling that you're just bad? As a dad, as a son, as a husband, maybe even to a certain degree in your business because you can't get it going. It's hard to find words. It's like I kind of feel this like numb. Yeah, yeah, I get it. It really is. You've done such an amazing job. Like I really see how sensitive you are. I just, you know, I really want to be with you for a minute as a 40-something-year-old man that you've done so well to try and cope. When deep down you're so terrified that you're bad and just the thought of doing anything wrong fills you with so much panic that you had to cut that part of you off. That's the numbness. But as best as you can with me in real time, what would it feel like if you even made it up now walking around thinking that you're just bad? Even if you have to think of somebody else, if someone a good friend of yours is walking around and they think they're just a bad person, they're bad father, they're a bad son, they're a bad husband, what must they feel internally? It's just awful. It's awful, isn't it? Yeah. Do you feel it anywhere particularly in your body? It's in my gut and chest mostly. Yeah, having this on your. And also in my head. Yeah, that's the pressure. The heaviness is on the heart, the tension is in the gut. Yeah. Like a more sensitive. Lots of tension in my gut. Yeah. And this heavy light. It's kind of like I need to forest the breathing. Yeah. So someone's sitting on your chest. Yeah. Yeah. That constrain is the absolute terror of anything potentially happening because of your fault. Also, this kind of feels like a grip around my neck. Yeah, suffocation. Yeah. You're describing it beautifully. For someone I know how well you've had to manage this, like the numbness was the appropriate response. Now you're finding it in your body, the tension in your stomach. This is all fight or flight. I see. It's okay, you feel it. This is great. Don't resist. You've worked so hard to fight this. It's okay, I'd let it go. This is beautiful. There you go. There it is. You've worked so hard to try not to do things wrong. You've worked so hard to try and be a good person. It's okay. This is beautiful. This is what you've wanted to touch. It's exhausting. You're suffocating yourself. Definitely, the suffocation thing. Yeah. You can feel that in your throat. Out. Yeah. It's okay. This is beautiful. I can't imagine you've been to this place very often over the last few years. You're too busy trying to survive. Yeah. What came to mind as you started to cry and feel those emotions? Kind of this. I. I. Sometimes when I get frustrated with my wife or. I often say to her like, "But you're not listening." So she thinks I'm saying one thing or she's trying to finish the sentence and that's not really where I'm going and I feel. I. And I think that's some of the frustration with my mom as well. Yeah. I haven't felt like. Listen to. Yeah. And that's one point I just gave up. Yeah. Well, hopefully you're experiencing being listened to and cared about now. Yeah, definitely. Amazing. What's that feel like, Tef? You to be in the presence of someone who actually really cares who's paying attention, who loves you the way you are, accepts you the way you are. What is that like? Feels good. Yeah. I feel. It's ready. Yeah, again. It's all that boy wanted. He was a prisoner in his own home. And. Right? A slave to his own parents. Captive to a very unsafe environment. I want you to consider that for over 45 or 44 years, you've been a prisoner. And this is your opportunity to step free. Dad. And that's why I acknowledge you for having worked so hard to try and be a good dad, to try and be a good husband, to try and be a good son, even in spite of your own conditioning. Everybody out there is doing the best they can within the limits of their own. um, you know, oblivion to their subconscious constraints. And that's why people do get frustrated. People are easily triggered. People get hurt because no one's paying attention. But it's the self-fulfilling prophecy, right? So if you are wired to think that you're a bad kid, you're a bad person, what are you always going to be looking out for? Trouble. Yeah. And trying to avoid it. So when your mom is saying something critical, judgment or not listening, you know, again, all that's reinforcing is your own hurt. And when we get hurt, anger is a coping strategy for hurt. Nobody's really angry. It's just people are really hurt. And so think about a dog that's been hit one too many times. What happens next time a hand comes near it? It barks, it growls, and maybe even bites, right? That's the dog's version of anger, which is a form of self-protection. So Hobart is in a world of pain internally. It doesn't take much for somebody to say something that occurs to you. It seems like a judgment, a criticism of you, your behavior, whatever you did. You're already, your bucket is already overflowing. Then you just slash out because it hurts. But not because of what they said, because you're already maxed out with hurt. You see? You're not an angry person. You're a sweetheart. You're quite the antithesis. You're like a big softy. Right? You really are. But you were brought up in an environment where you had to learn to protect yourself. And one of the ways you did that was first of all trying to hide, playing small, making sure that you don't do anything wrong. But then whenever push comes to shove and you're in a corner, you have to lash out to protect yourself. Do you see that? That's, I guess that's why I often feel like, okay, there's where. I'm always trying to think of putting the oxygen mask on myself first before, or like. Yeah. Yeah. But at the same time, it feels like there's. There's. never enough. I don't know. Or it feels like there are no oxygen masks. Yeah. That would be more accurate. Yeah, there's not even oxygen there. That's the suffocation. So again, if you just look at the breakdown of the sympathetic nervous system, fight, flight, or freeze, look at that relative to you. Fight is okay when you finally lash out. That's the last resort for you. Get angry, frustrated. free as we know, you just try and stay quiet, right? Like your dad's kicking down a bathroom door and you're just like, it's almost like you're paralyzed. You know, when somebody gets petrified, like that, you're stiff, that's the tightness you feel in your body. And then flight is where you try and hide, right? You'd like to be running away from any circumstance. - Yeah. - That's what drives your entire existence. - Yeah. - That's the suffocation, that's the heaviness on the heart, someone sitting on your chest like you can't breathe and the tightness in your stomach. All of those physiological signs are reflections of that emotional reaction to life. Yeah. - I think for you to know now, especially as you're smart, you're in the world of physiotherapy, it's training, understanding the human body, is you're doing that all of your, by your own accord, but unconsciously, so there's no fault. 'Cause if who you are for yourself is bad, and you could do anything wrong at any minute, you have to be constantly like us at the beginning in a state of vigilance, scanning your environment. Whatever you do, don't fuck up. Whatever you do, don't make a mistake. Whatever you do, don't upset anybody. That's exhausting. - Do you see? - Yeah. - So, what we wanna look at is the deep down conditioning that you think that you're bad and that you are someone who could do something wrong, right? See, for you, that occurs in absolute truth. It's how you've identified yourself. But if I were to cut you open, am I gonna find a physical manufacturing label inside of your body that says, "Hover, born in Norway, he's bad." No, I'm not, right? So where does the "I'm bad" live? 'Cause it defines your perspective. Where does it live? Where does it exactly live? Yeah, in your mind. But it's a lens that you've looked through for so long that you don't realize it's a lens. You think it's you and the world outside of you. So if it's just a lens that you look through, called "I'm bad," so wherever you go, however quickly you turn your head, everything is a potential danger of making something wrong 'cause you're bad or doing something wrong. But if it's just a lens, is it an absolute truth that who you are is bad? No, it's not, it's not who you are. It's a role that you learn at a very young age that has become so embedded in the way that you relate to life that that's now automated. But it's not a truth, however, it's not who you are. You're the observer, you're the witness, you're the consciousness that looks through that. I'll give you, like, as a very simple example, if I was born with glasses on, I don't have any here, but if they had like this sort of blue tint to them, how would everything outside of me look? Blue. Right, now listen very carefully. If I was born with the glasses on, like I said, with the blue, nothing would look blue, but everything would look normal. And do you see? 'Cause that's all I've known. I would only see the blue when someone pointed out that I'm wearing them. Right? Do you follow? So what I want you to consider is, this is a much deeper as a tarot conversation, but as far as I'm concerned, as a soul, we incarnate with these constraints. They get triggered by our primary care providers when we're young, because we're here to learn what's on the other side of those limitations. So I know this is a stretch, but you're a smart man, and you've done a lot of work, and you're clearly a part of freedom, and you enjoy my stuff. So consider you as a soul, absolutely nothing wrong with you, Ho-Wan. But you wanted to experience, now you're breathing differently, can you feel the weight coming off your chest a little bit? Yeah, and also in my belly. Soffoning, the belly-soffoning? Yeah. Isn't that beautiful? Yeah, attention's relieving. So now you see the impact of frequency in forming form, meaning as you shift your resonance, your physiology changes. This seems like a miracle. I've worked with people who've had all sorts of conditions and sicknesses ago. That's not a miracle that your physiology reorienting itself to your shift in perspective of yourself. Right? We can go more into that in a minute. But for now, when you don't understand that you as a soul incarnated, and you wanted to experience the belief that who you are is bad and wrong. So follow, I know this is a little poetic, but you chose an environment that was perfect for those experiences to be triggered. You know, you've studied physiology, you know what epigenetics is, right? Yeah. It's above genetics. So we incarnate with our genes that have a multitude of potential expressions that, depending on lifestyle, diet, and I, for me, predominantly mindset, we activate different expressions, right? You could have two twins with the same genetic information. One goes and lives in a monastery, lives a very clean zen life and the other one becomes a drug addict and da-da-da. You know, they might both have the predisposition, predisposition to cardiac disease, but the one living in a monastery, zen, and taking care of it, maybe one day has a tightness in his chest, but his twin, who lives a hedonistic life, has a heart attack, right? So I want you to consider this is what I call emotional epigenetics. So you arrive with these sort of genetic codes in terms of your view of yourself. The above, the epi, is your parents, particularly your dad, but also your mom, that turned on these proteins of, "I'm bad, and I'm not safe, and I'm doing something wrong." Then you get to experience that, hopefully, because for me, my work is about having you realize that you're here to break free from those constraints, right? So if it's just a lens, the Hobart thinks that he's bad, it's not a truth. So now with me, if it's not a truth, it's just an experience you wanted so you could find what's on the other side of that. If the "I'm bad" is gone, because it's not a truth, there's nothing bad about you. That just isn't. You're a human, and you do what you do, and you don't do what you don't do. Sometimes it has consequences, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes people get upset, sometimes people don't. You see, that's just being human. But if the "I'm bad" is gone, you literally can't think of yourself as bad, and hence you can't do anything wrong. How would you feel? Right now it's feeling very foreign. (laughs) That is such a good response, and I get that more. I just love, you know, one thing I really want to acknowledge about you, Hobart, is somebody who's learned to be numb because you had to survive as a kid. You actually are incredibly present. You actually are very aware, which is such a great gift, and probably why you're an incredible physiotherapist, I would guess, like your ability to feel where people are tight, and you're gonna become even better, not just being a physiotherapist, but a husband and a father, because see, when you're present, your sensitivity is a gift. When you're in fear, your sensitivity becomes the way that you have to protect yourself, do you see? Yeah. Does that make sense? So the fact that you said it feels foreign is such a great answer, because you've had four and a half decades of living in constraint and fear. What I'm introducing you to is what I call the 2.0 world. It's a different type of human experience. This is, you know, my whole legacy is a new operating system for humanity. So yeah, you don't know what the hell it feels like to be free. You've never been free. (laughs) Right? But I guess it must be better. It's slightly better, you know? Yeah, just slightly. Or you can walk around feeling suffocated, like someone sitting on your chest, tightness in your stomach, and you're constantly under pressure. It's your choice. (laughs) I think it's a pretty easy one. I mean, like that smile on your face right now, I can only imagine is not necessarily being that common. (laughs) You know? Yeah. You're tapping into joy right now, which is your birthright. Yeah. What a gift to your kids, to your two beautiful daughters, especially at their age, and what a gift to your wife, to have a husband who is embracing his humanity, knows that he's not a bad person. Now just so you stay with me, realizing you're not bad, does that mean that you're perfect? No. No, not at all. It means you're human. (laughs) Right? But you see, that little boy was conditioned to believe there was no room for his humanity. So this is a bigger question, and I know I love your response that it's foreign, yeah, 'cause I'm introducing you to an experience you've probably never had in part from when maybe you were one or two years old before you learned that you were bad. So when you realize that this is all, it's all a facade, right? It's all made up, right? That you've never been bad, that you've never been a horrible kid. When you look back at your life, And whatever you did, and it's a yes or no answer, did you ever do anything wrong? And I know it's a tough question. - Love. - Intellectually, I know the answer is no, but in your body and your memory. - My body is, yeah. - No, and this is how deep-fi- - Deep-fi-impacted. - Tell me. - No, no, in my body, I feel like my body's fighting against. - Yeah, well your body has become your subconscious. It's become habitualized to believe. Like it's become your armor. So I love that you can at least intellectually. That's enough because before this conversation, there never would have been even a hope in hell that you would realize that you've never done anything wrong, right? It's like, no, look, you would find evidence all over the place where your dad was angry, your mom was upset. All I've ever done as a kid is do things wrong. So, but again, even in spite of what your body is trying to fight against, let's just stay with your intellect for now. Looking back your life, like I'll give you an example for me. I was 15, my dad had started to teach me how to drive and he was aware, work one day, I decided to back the car out of the garage and try and reverse it up the driveway and just maybe drive on the road, I was a private road for, you know, not far, a couple hundred feet and then come back. I just, you know, was 15. As I reverse the car out, I guess somehow I put too much pressure on the gas and steering, you know, like I was 15 and I knocked down the garden wall, right? There was next to the driveway. Now, obviously I felt terrible and I adored my dad and fortunately he wasn't someone who got angry but I was like, definitely worried that he was gonna be upset. That's natural. But I didn't do anything wrong. I did exactly what a 15-year-old does. That doesn't mean that it was to be condoned and there wasn't without consequence. I had to mow the lawn, wash the car, forgot knows how many weeks to pay for the rebuilding of the wall, right? There was responsibility. So maybe just seeing that example can help. So looking back at your life, whatever you did, you know, you hit a sister once, you stole their food, you know, whatever you did. But as you can now as an adult, look back at your history, particularly as a child, did you do anything wrong? No. No, you didn't. What would that be, like, hovered right now with me if you could reconcile your history that for you was filled with bad and wrong? And again, you're smart enough to know, I'm not saying that what you did was great or you were the perfect child or that was the ideal behavior. But it wasn't wrong. It was appropriate for wherever you at in your life. What is that? How does that hit your body now, realizing you've never done anything wrong? I mean, I just saw your shoulders drop a couple of inches. Yeah. It's just like a relief. Yeah. You've been living in a world of guilt and shame that was of your own creation. Of course, reinforced and to some degree, perpetuated by your parents, reinforcing that with their own perspective. But you took it on because as a kid, we don't know what else to think. We just believe that whatever they're telling us, telling us is true. Think about your own beautiful daughters, three and four. Right? If you now walked out, I'm assuming they're in the house wherever they are and you went and saw your wife and they were in the kitchen and you saw crayons on the kitchen wall. You know, your three year old got hold of a crayon and they marked the wall. Is that wrong? What she did? No. No, it's exactly what a three year old should do. It's kind of cute. It's adorable. No, it's not ideal and you might want to have a chat with her about why that's not ideal. But that's what a kid does, right? Can you see? Yeah. Now, you've just never extended your self the same grace. Do you feel how your breathing's differently right now? Yeah, it feels like the tension in my body is loosening up. Yeah. Even, I mean, I didn't know I had tension in my hands, but obviously I did because it feels more. It feels like this has been like. tension in my skin. Yeah. Your whole system has been in five flight of freeze for decades. This is so beautiful. It's okay here. Feel it. This is beautiful. Have I just feel it? You've been living in hell and you thought it was your life. It's such a sweet home. It's okay. There you go. There you go. You're exhausted. There you go. You've been working so hard ever since you've been a kid, desperately trying not to do anything wrong. Fundamentally, just wanting somebody to accept you for you. Yeah, it's a wow, isn't it? I thought. It feels like I don't know myself at all. Or it's like. I thought I'm kind of myself or how to be me, but it's. Phew. Yeah. There's just. I was aware there was tension in my body, but I wasn't aware there was this amount of tension. This is how people get sick. This is how people create diseases. I've always thought like, no, no, I'm not the one who can hit by chronic disease or whatever, but yeah, so far so good, but. I mean, my dad passed when he was 56. Yeah. So that's been at the back of my head as well, like, okay, I mean. I've tried to stay more healthy than he. Yes, he was, but. Oh, yeah, big, huh? Yeah, so. If you understand what's being released from your body right now, which you do, especially given your training, your education, whilst you've done okay until now, another decade of that level of tension, which of course is now not going to happen, you can imagine what that could manifest as. Even if it's subtle tremors, you know, a little bit of arthritis, a little bit of Alzheimer's, because of the pressure that's going on neurologically. Yeah. Dementia, cardiac disease, you know, if you had a predisposition to that, all that stress on your heart would have definitely manifested as something. And especially given your profession, you could understand, again, this is not fear-mongering, but those things were likely, you know, if you went to see any specialists, they'd look at your family lineage, you know, they'd look at what your father dealt with, you're going to go, "Yes, you know, there's a high predictability that, "Dar-dar-dar, the hovar's going to have this." Yeah, but that's less to do with your genes and more to do with your conditioning and your frequency, which we just broke through. Yeah. That's why I fucking love what I get to do. Isn't that cool? You literally, I know what you said, it's very profound. You don't even know who you are, but now you get to discover. You know you get to find out. Now you'll understand my work at a different level, which is who you are is freedom, who you are is love, who you are is pure possibility, hovar. But it's all been suffocated in this world of your bad. Don't do anything wrong and you're not safe. Yeah, I mean, I heard you say this, talk about this, like, being pure possibility, but and I kind of jumped on it intellectually, but I didn't really get the grip of it. Now you can feel it. But now I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm getting at where, yeah, I'm understanding it more now. Yeah. And it feels like, it feels like this, I have this little bit of fear of exploring, who am I, but at the same time it's more like this joyful or fear, or like, like when you're, let's say you're jumping out of a plane and you know, or something, that's kind of fear and joyful fear. Yeah, it's called a liveness, vitality, whereas you were numb. I mean, the smile on your face, I mean, when I first saw you, I had no disrespect. I could just see how sad you are, so much heaviness. Yeah. It's just in your face, like the heaviness you felt on your chest. Now it's like, ooh, if I want to get out there and explore life, it's a bit scary, because I've never done that. I'm very good at staying in a prison and making sure everything's perfect. But you know, I just opened the cage and you're like, oh, wait, I can, I can step out. Like what's out there? Yeah. It's, yeah, it feels, I mean, I feel more, more free and more alive, I guess. I guess that's pretty cool, right? If you're into being more free in a life. Yeah. And I mean, it's also like, I mean, what, watching myself on the screen here, it's, it's not, it's, it's with, it's with, it's kind of with joy. I look at myself. Yeah. But I was before like I was, I had a look at it at the video that I sent you. And I felt like, oh my God, I look so sad. And like, yeah, because you were, yeah, sad and dead. And now you get to be free in a life that's not too bad for an hour's conversation. Just reconciling for and a half decades of wiring. Yeah. Yeah. So if we go, I mean, I just can't keep the smile off your face. It's your, your wife is like, oh my God, what happened? Did he give you drugs? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's look at that. Let's look at both these, these are obviously important, significant relationships. Not just your wife, but your beautiful daughters who will have, you know, less of this dynamic. I know sometimes you get angry at them and you feel bad about that. But now just from this place, look at who could you be as a husband? Who could you be as a father? What now becomes available in the way that you'll relate to those three women? Well, I, I think I will be more, more present. Yeah. More, more joyful. Yeah. Maybe more silly and like playful. Yeah. And Dude, you're awesome. I mean, I listen, I don't mean to interrupt, but it just, it gives me so much joy that here, you know, here's a man, he's a professional, you love your family, you beat the shit out of yourself because sometimes you're not the perfect husband or dad. You get upset at your mom, you know, you want to start a business and you'd been living in hell. And now all I see is just absolute love and joy. Yeah. You know, what I see is a man who just adores his wife, who loves his daughters, who wants to have that play, who's not going to be perfect. You know, sometimes you might get a little frustrated, but you're not going to get angry. You're going to have so much more patience with them and yourself. You're going to realize that, especially as you're a care provider in your own way, the humans are doing the best they can, which is going to give you so much more compassion, not just for them, but for yourself. And it really literally shifts the course of your entire life. Yeah. And as it relates to your mom, God bless her, but she's conditioned for another three, four decades above you. She's doing the best she can. Well, she knows it's the judge and criticise, but here's the powerful thing, Hoverd, when your energy shifts, when you're lighter, when you don't carry the judgment and shame of thinking you're bad and wrong, you won't hear her criticisms the same way because they won't touch you. You'll just hear her opinion on something. Oh, mom, I understand. That's where you think about me. It's okay. I'll give you how you feeling. Do you see? You won't take it personally. Yeah. You'll let her have a view of life. It's okay. Yeah. Do you see the freedom? Let's come up. I've been trying to do that, but it's, it's always been like your constant, like inner fight or like that. I have to kind of. Yeah. You've so much energy on, on not reacting or. Yeah. Yeah. So the, the way you said it is perfect, you've been trying to do it, which is a coping strategy for somebody who actually beneath it doesn't believe it, right? Meaning, you've been trying to be the good son. You've been trying not to react, which is what? You still trying to get it right, which is the strategy to avoid doing anything wrong. You see, it's, it's so slippery. It's everywhere. Now it's like anyone could say anything about you. I mean, again, this is all new, but it's basically, okay, well, that's cool. It's like someone says, you know, you're an idiot. You're a terrible physiotherapist. All right. Well, thank you for sharing. Do you want to go and grab a coffee or what are you doing? Yeah. You see, it just doesn't land anymore. That's amazing. Yeah. Because I always try to be so good at what I like trying to do everything right. And I work as well. And I think I just love the breath that you're taking. It's like you're just exhaling like years of tension. Yeah. That's amazing. It's going to change your whole physiology. You know, if we had monitors on you right now, measuring your vitals, like heart rate, respiratory rate, blood pressure, they all would have changed. Yeah. You see that? Definitely. The quality of sleep is going to change, you know, all of that. Yeah. Welcome to the new world. I feel more at peace now. Beautiful, isn't it? Yeah. I remember, like I heard people say that like, yeah, once you get kids, you kind of feel more at peace or like kind of you settle down and like I felt the complete opposite. Yeah. Because I was trying to get everything right and managing everything. Yeah. But now I think this is this is some of the peace that yeah, it might have been talking about. Yeah. One acceptance, yeah, because now Harvard has it for himself. Welcome to your humanity. Welcome to being imperfect and being okay with it. And it doesn't mean that we don't try to do our best. Of course you want to be the best physio. You want to be the best husband, the best father of course, but it's no longer being driven by the fear and the demanding energy that you have to do that. It's a choice. You want to have a lazy weekend one day and do nothing and kick your feet up and hang out with the wife and the kids like you don't have to beat yourself up because you're not doing things right. Yeah. You get to be for the first time. Just be. Oh. I'm just so amazed by I didn't know I should feel this way. Yeah. Well, I like like a Buddha. You just hit Buddha hood. Yeah. Yeah. Such a joy to be with you my friend. Yeah. What are you going to say? It's just like the whole world quiet, just kind of quiet down. Yeah. And you now also see now that you're on the other side of the prisons and constraints how much hurt and suffering is out there in the world. Everybody out there is in a prison that they're oblivious to. Everybody is in limitations that have been driving their thoughts, feelings, actions and all of their results, including sickness and dysfunction and disharmony and fights. And that's why I'm committed to helping over a billion people find freedom. We just got a little closer today with you. Well, thank you so much. It's absolutely my pleasure. There's such a. There's something for me in particular, you know, your story's subtle. Some people's it's really devastating. I'm not saying that your childhood was easy, but you know, you have a nice family, you're a successful physiotherapist, you're very smart. People might look at you and go, "Well, what's his problem?" But now you see that you were living in hell. Yeah, but I mean, I felt very lucky that I was chosen to be in your podcast. And at the same time, I felt like I humbled as well because at one point I also felt like, "Okay, is this good enough? Have I endured enough suffering to take part in all this?" But this is. Yeah. Wow. Thank you, Stanwax. You're so welcome. Thank you because you just helped change the lives, probably a million of people who have also been walking around thinking that they're bad and that they do things wrong. I guarantee there's people in their cars and at home who are sharing in their tears with you. And this is what I'm so committed to helping people step into this 2.0 world where we live from freedom, love and possibility. Your wife just got a new husband, your daughter's just got a new father and even your mom got a new son. You're going to walk in there with the biggest smile on your face and they're like, "What have you been doing? What have you been up to something?" That naughty look. Yeah. So this is my invitation to you, my friend. I don't know if they're at home. I'm assuming because it's evening for you, but go and give your wife the biggest hug and hold your daughters if they've gone to sleep. You can see them in the morning and just share the amount of love that you have. Your heart's now free to fully express itself. Yeah. Sound good? Yeah. Definitely. Can't wait. Can't keep that smile of your face. The before and after just is just fantastic. Okay. So just not as a disclaimer, but just so that because I know your tendency is to try and get it all right, just know that it now takes practice. It's like you give people in the clinic, they have to do their exercises. So your exercises to just be gentle with yourself. It's not about getting it perfect, but realizing fundamentally you're human. You're always doing the best you can and to keep having grace, forgiveness and fundamentally self-love and acceptance. Yeah. Okay. That's going to be much easier now. Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, compared to where you lived, you just stepped into heaven. As I say, heaven is a place in earth. You know, people think heaven's in the future. Hell is beneath it. No, it's a state of mind. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Well, it's an out-of-the-talk from one to the other. It is, isn't it? Yeah. But most people are in hell, not even knowing that heaven's right next door. Yeah. Well, we're changing that. Yeah. Can't wait to explore a heaven. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now stepping outside feels more exciting than less fearful. Jumping out of the plane is like, let's fucking go. Yeah. Definitely. Oh, that's such a joy to be with you. Thank you for entrusting me with your heart and letting me see you hold you. Here you so that you could meet yourself and realize the beautiful being that you've always been. And now you get to step out of the unconscious prisons that you've been living in for four and a half decades. I think that's a long enough prison sentence. Welcome to freedom. Definitely. Thank you so much, Peter. You're welcome. [MUSIC PLAYING]