Filmmaking, Friendships, and Autism with Reed Smith | RDID; Ep 111

Hello, this is Recovery Diaries in-depth. I'm your host Gabe Nathan. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm very happy to have you here. I'm so excited to have as our guest today, Reed Smith. Way back when Reed was a camper of mine at a Creative Arts Day camp, later in his life he did an internship with fresh fly films in Glen Holston, who makes all of our documentary films here at Recovery Diaries. He's making a film of his own right now that's in post-production about his life maintaining friendships, and he has a podcast called Cinema on the Spectrum. Each week we'll bring you a Recovery Diaries contributor, folks who have shared their mental health journey with us through SA or video format. We want to see where they are on their mental health journey, since initially being published on our website. Our goal is to continue supporting our diverse community by having conversations here on our podcast to follow up and see what is shifted, what has changed, and what new things have emerged. We're so happy to have you along for this journey. We want to remind you to follow our show for new and back episodes at RecoveryDiaries.org. There, like the podcast, you'll find stories of mental health, empowerment, and change. You can also sign up for our mailing list there so you never miss a new podcast episode, SA or film. And you can find this podcast pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts. We appreciate your comments and feedback about our show. It helps us improve, make changes, and grow. And of course, make sure to like, share, and subscribe. Thanks, Smith. Thank you so much for being on RecoveryDiaries in depth. It's so great to see you. Great to be here, Gabe. Thank you so much for having me. Well, it's a delight. And I, you know, rather than me introducing you, I'd like you to introduce yourself to us in the way that you see fit. Who are you? Well, right now I'm somebody who was a past participant in OC87 RecoveryDiaries. When it used to just kind of show videos and not its podcast in 2017, I did an interview with the filmmaker who has often done videos on OC87 RecoveryDiaries Glenn Holston talking basically about a screenplay that I haven't really worked on a long time, but felt like a cool thing for me to do that really meant something to me at the time. And I was doing it while I was working on getting into certain film graduate schools. And so big development that's happened to me since doing that recovery diaries film, which is also worse seen is I have gotten in fact into film graduate school. I was actually a part of the school of visual arts, social documentary program which I'm afraid is not there anymore, but I had two wonderful years really working there and made some good films that I'm a proud of. And then after I graduated from that program there is a film I'm working on right now. I now am one of the hosts of a podcast known as cinema on the spectrum where me and another friend who has autism like me discuss certain movies from certain directors and we started with a focus on David Cronenberg and our final David Cronenberg film. Just came out last Thursday where we reviewed his last film and that was all been quite an interesting experience that I'll be happy to talk more about. Wow, so you have a lot going on. You are a writer, you are making and producing and directing films, you've studied filmmaking, you have a podcast. And there's a lot of ground to cover read and I just want to start with something related to the film that you're making now about maintaining friendships. Now that's what I want to touch on. You're someone who lives with autism. Yeah, and I'm curious to know if you believe that maintaining friendships as someone with autism presents unique or different challenges. Well, I think there are certain ways that maybe autism has affected my ability to make friends that I don't kind of put denial into. Sometimes I'm a little bit confused on how it's all affected and as I look at what I've done as I've kind of come to the latest cut right now of my film and as it's all getting done while I specifically state that I have autism. I'm not really sure there's anything quite I touched on in the film that only really maybe the audience can speculate and I mean you'll see a little bit more what I'm talking about hopefully when the film is done where it's specifically kind of altogether states that this struggle specifically happened because I have autism and well there's many things about the definition and what it all is. And what it all means that I think remains complicated and I think another thing that theme I really touch on my film is the big certain similarities I may have with people who don't have autism but also the people who have certain differences and the similarities and the differences between me and other people with autism that's all real kind of like complicated to understand. I think there are some who kind of like had maybe it's because they have more severe autism where they've had other struggles who may have kind of had a lot things a lot worse when it came to like dealing with that struggle involving friendship. And who was the head of the autistic support program in my elementary school which I wasn't really a part of until fourth grade and was just there from fourth grade to fifth grade before I graduated she really asserted that she knows a lot of autistic people who have a lot of friends and maybe some of them do it in different way and some have different feelings and there's different things that all. Different things can mean I mean I think I myself and somebody who kind of keeps going through now different feelings now as I did in the past of like really wanting to reach out with people and to have a lot of good experiences of making connections but also then there's that other part of me that's kind of like what's my damn time to just kind of relax a little bit by. Myself before kind of then getting getting back out there and being a little bit more social so there's a lot of different feelings that vary I mean I think one thing I give a vague hint about in the film but don't touch on as the theme directly that one thing that was recurrently true of me and kind of like preschool and elementary school is that like most of those days on the playground I did just kind of spent time by myself and I think there was a lot of different variety of reasons for that and I probably did way too much of that versus trying to interact with utilizing the recess time to interact with kids more and hang out with them but the truth is I think if I would do things over again while I think I really utilize the time to think as I think now who I've not contacted while seems kind of worth contacting and recess could be all a good time to contact them and talk with them I think there still would be some days where at recess where if I felt like I had enough social time maybe I just kind of want certain time to just kind of relax and think about things for myself and maybe as I've come to the thoughts maybe I'll be able to really interact some more which I think I go through some different feelings when I had intense conversation with somebody whether it is through a friend or a family member. It's really interesting and I want to talk a little bit more about like elementary and middle school I when I was an elementary middle school I was bullied a lot for lots of different reasons and I think that that made me want to withdraw and be more in my own head because I think I was a little bit afraid of taking a risk and being vulnerable and interacting with someone and maybe they would hurt me. me emotionally or physically or whatever. And I'm wondering if that was true for you. Did you experience any bullying when you were like elementary and middle school age and how did that affect you? Okay, so that is a big thing that I really touch on. I really do kind of, bullying is quite the big theme to my film. And I don't know entirely, Gabe, what your story is, but here's all the complications and my stories. Two of my bullies were actually at different points, I think, my closest friend and they're different in complicated different ways. So, Blaine, I say I have a friend named David, but I don't think I really touched on how the very first day of starting first grade. He's kind of one of the first guys we see I saw at the bus stop and we kind of all connected with the family and we all turn out to be in the same class. And he was all my first friend started out. And I think there was many ways. In that first grade year, we would have a good friendship as I talk about in the film, how we bonded over this Spider-Man video game that people look the salgeically on it over the years that like it came out in 2000 that was kind of the first 3D interactive world. And I think both me, my mom and cousin were just talking about yesterday if we really want to include a scene about how happy David and I were bonding over the Spider-Man video game. And I can't remember even exactly in first grade how much I remembered having at least some bad experiences with him. I'm not sure if he did quite the same real that mean things to the same extent that he did within the arrowhead camp that we were a part of right after first grade that I talk about to the film, the some degree and I don't touch on I think everything that happened with our bullying experience. But one thing I do really talk about in the film is kind of like when after we really bonded over that Spider-Man video game, I'm not sure if he did the language exactly, but we have a kind of like play acting kind of rehearsal of the scene of how he did that said something bad about it. I just sort of ended up saying that he just sort of said that it was lame. And while I can't remember exactly, I guess, Gabe, how to kind of like multiply all the experiences of maybe times he was mean to me when we were in first grade versus arrowhead camp. I can say for sure that I do think arrowhead camp did sort of mark this contrasting change of us kind of like really losing something that was good to our friendship. And what one of the big developments that happened the film is I did in fact interview David actually really in talk with him all about these experiences that he had and while he didn't remember doing this, he believed he did it and was sorry about it and he did think that while he was seeing himself as somebody who likes superheroes, he do feel like he was influenced by certain friends with in his camp who didn't think it was cool. So him feeling like he shouldn't either. And that basically was somewhat my analysis going in because I didn't really touch on this in my film. I remembered another friend that him and I mutually had and us kind of like all bonding over these couple of different Spider-Man video games that these two had that were all kind of like a part of a franchise and remembering all the kind of like the good times of that. And so I think maybe not having that friend amongst other various reasons and there's well there and there was just a lot about just arrowhead camp. I haven't even really kind of touched on on my film that I think is really awful in itself that there were these counselors there who said if you guys don't do this, we will dress you guys up as girls. There were guys that there were counselors who did things like threaten us if we didn't play this game right. They would put us into the the girl scout area. So just a lot of clearly I don't know how we've been doing today. A lot of clearly anti-trans and Thai guys being friends with girls. I don't know just even real homophobic issues going on there that I don't know how it's being looked on with how much our time and culture has changed really. So there's a lot we've kind of touched on and got into Gabe Bulba. Yeah, but well, hopefully the atmosphere at that camp is a lot different now. But and thank you for sharing those experiences. Read it. It's really hard when a friend kind of turns on you. You know, you think they're one thing and then whether they're influenced by their peers or other kinds of external pressures and then that can be really hard. But I think it's also really cool that you interview David later as an adult. And I've had this experience with two bullies. Dan and Alex were bullies. To me, when I was younger and then I became very good friends with one of them late in life. And it's just it's a nice reminder that people can change. That people have the capacity to change for the better. So thanks for pointing that out to I want to transition to to kind of talking about movies. And I would love to know. Is there a film that you particularly love where autism plays a role in the film? Either maybe the main character is someone who has autism, the spectrum disorder or someone else in the film or it's what the film is about. Can you think of any film like that? Well, there are I will say things about there are a lot of things about Rainman, Gabe, I will say that I do love. I don't I do think as we're talking about similarities and difference before who Dustin Hoffman is is very different from who I am. And I think there's a lot that says that I guess I hint at somewhat in the film about how the definition of autism changes all the time and what it means. But I think to get at maybe the character who I feel kind of the most alike who at least felt very strongly he had autism was the character that and funny spoiling this in the TV show, Parrot Hood when Ray Romano's character did some certain readings after he had kind of been a mentor, worked in this photography shop and he was looking out for somebody who had autism and when some and when things didn't go wrong with the schedule and this kid with autism started to act badly about it then Max the kid with autism's father would give Ray Romano's character and Ray Romano's character's name is Hank a book about autism and when he read the book he really felt very strongly that autism did kind of really reflected who he was and that really made him on a mission to kind of think about what he can do to make his life better and while I had always kind of been seen at least maybe even before fourth grade when I was a part of the autistic support program at least is having a learning disability of some sort there were I think different moments maybe it was in ninth grade when I actually thought about Another friendship who's a little bit happens a little bit more recurrently. going on the film, then David Josh about the impacts of that relationship that's always kind of made me kind of think a lot about what different changes I guess I can always make into my life. And I guess I do always have even the questions whether it's something to do with my personal experiences. And I do think as you say Gabe, maybe like the all lean is playing a role, whether it's the bullying experiences I've had with it Josh and David and I think still the themes of us me having a good friendship is all playing a role with them and impacting me in certain different ways that kind of like lead me to think about just kind of what to change about who I am and what to do better. And there are certainly other things going on in Hank's life. Well, I do think another big part of what did happen within Hank's story and why he wasn't diagnosed with a autism, not knowing he had autism sooner is that how much that kind of cause all sorts of tensions between him and the wife. He was divorced already from by the time we're introduced to him as a character in the fourth season. And he did kind of like talk with her and let her know how he did have autism and how that he felt that led it for their difficulties in communication to not always have the best relationship. And it is possible that did kind of all impact me in certain other relations. And I guess like there's certain things within my film that more went in and didn't go in, but I did kind of talk a little bit specifically that in one interview that just kind of interview segments that was cut out of the film and somebody else I interviewed would or he did really feel like autism did kind of like impact our relationship in some ways and he couldn't fit. He didn't really say though, and I think basically what we concluded there from our talks was basically how like since it may have impacted my ability to interact as well as maybe I could have maybe I could have if it didn't have the same type of impact. And I guess it's always hard to say with the what if questions maybe him and I would have done a lot more hanging out outside of school, even though one of the things we do talk about in my interviews with films with him is how we did have good lunch chats, but would or did talk about how there were a lot of guys. He would be friendly with at lunch, we wouldn't hang out with outside of school really. Right. How do you think, you know, when you look at your life and you know, we've talked about your your early years and then kind of, you know, when I first knew you, I would say you were 15, 14, 15 around then you were a student of mine at a children's performing arts center. And so I knew you around that age kind of adolescence. And then you had this internship at Fresh Fly. Yeah. The studio that makes our films with Glenn, I think you were in your early 20s. And now you're 30. So if you look through this whole span of your life, how do you feel you've changed in terms of your mental health? You know, I have you had periods of anxiety or depression throughout your life. How do you think? How do you think you've changed in that respect? Well, I think there definitely have been certainly a lot of intense moments where I've kind of like been intensely kind of like unhappy about certain different things. I've not really been kind of like diagnosed with being depressed in life in a certain clinical sense. But I mean, I think there's even some all these different recent periods I go through of feeling unhappy about certain different things. I'm not living at least at this point in my life quite a fairly a lot more flexible schedule than a lot of other people are, which can have its own challenges to it. And I keep trying to think through what to do best within my schedule. There had been another period like when I was a part of the social documentary school of visual arts, particularly in the very first year of the two years I was there when it just in this first semester when things were just kind of like so incredibly intense. And I just kind of like, I think it was that way for everybody, but I certainly did feel like I didn't have a whole lot of time for other things, but to kind of work on my classes in my films. And I described myself as kind of like just making things as the last second through messages by dodging the book, which was like a lot of how I think like certain other people do feel about their graduate experience, even though in some ways I'd still do look back fondly of those experience. Sometimes there's some questions there. If there's more I could have done with it, war that could have happened in a lot of different people I think have their different thoughts on their graduate experience. And I've had my questions on how I feel in comparison with both I think people who did graduate the social documentary experience both before me, people who were in my program, people who were did manage to get through the program before after I graduated before it did all close it down. And I think there have been people who may not have actually had quite the same success with things both in terms of kind of like what I have made it happen within my making keeping friends film and with what I've gotten done with my podcast and people just kind of moved away from films from their life altogether. But there are some people who I do think have had a lot more of a real more of a kind of like more of a real kind of like ongoing job and more. I don't know if it is even more serious grunt work and kind of working in films that I mean in it's questionable if they're glad to be doing that this so kind of focus on the projics their passion about. I mean I certainly have kind of been more fortunate than certain other people have been to kind of like have a family who's been able to back me and kind of focusing on things that I've been passionate about in terms of the podcast and the film even though there is still like I think some questions I still deal with. I think the podcast is clearly still more my favorite thing at this point than the film. Well, and I think part of the reason why I'm not quite as crazy about the film as I used to be is because the as I think I talked with you before gave at lunch the interviewing part of things is over and it was great with all the different interviews I've done certainly I think the interview with David was particularly a special big highlight especially now it's time for me to kind of get everything sorted out to kind of work at getting films produced but when that's done I am thinking about kind of like having more of a podcast talking with all sorts of different people in connection with my life since I mean I've just touched on certain things I really did not do certain things in my film like said before like touch on any of those things about arrowhead camp that I did was just my talk with you Gabe so I do wonder just kind of what else more can I do with a another podcast entirely I mean I think it could take a lot of work and there could be a lot of deep struggles anxieties those can have along the way as I think I've dealt with a lot of different points over the years but I think I've managed to make it through and get some accomplishments I mean maybe there's some different things that have failed that even and maybe I can name it more in the past than ways I can't. Now, I guess maybe one of the questions I have is we kind of touch on the different things in the years as if there are ways in which kind of like I could have also reached out to be friends with certain people sooner that it might just be too late now, really. I mean, oh, it's never too late. I would say it's never too late until the other person drops dead. Then it's definitely too late. But until that happens, I think there's always a chance for reconnection. I think there's always a chance for repair. And one of the things that really strikes me about you, read is how reflective you are. You really take the time to think about interactions from the past, things that you have said and done or just thinking about the past. Should I have done this? Should this have happened? Would it have been better this way? And I think that's so. It's a wonderful thing to be able to do. And I think it's great to do that by yourself. And I also think it's great to do it with others. They can be people in your family or they can be people from your past. And 20, 30, 40 years can go by. And it's still, I think, a great thing to reach out to folks and just say, hey, I've been thinking about this thing from high school or this interaction that we had or this choice that I made. What do you think about that? I think about also the work that you do in terms of making the film, in terms of your podcast. It's all very connected. It's not just read, right? It's read and the people he's working with to make the film. It's you and your podcast host and your guests. And you're always connecting and collaborating. And I think there's a myth about people with autism spectrum disorders that they have a lot of difficulty connecting. And I feel like it's something you're really good at. Have you had that experience where you've been confronted with people who make assumptions about you and your autism? I think there's a lot of different questions of certain assumptions going on by other people I'm trying to even remember the specifics I don't know, Gabe, if this is exactly what you're looking for. But I think there's often a lot of the times I'm being with a certain therapist right now who there may be some misunderstanding stuff. And I'm not sure if she might be making too much of assumption when it comes to my autism, I could be wrong about this or not. But like what are the things I talked about her during a therapy session, for example, again, Gabe, I'm not a trifus good example. But like when it came to working on my podcast, I really kind of put out the question, am I doing enough to kind of like reach out to people? And she didn't seem to have a real kind of like clear answer whether or not or not. She seemed to kind of focus more on this question on, well, I think I don't know. I can't remember exactly what she did if she already felt I did too much of that because that is kind of what somebody of autism would be most likely to do or just kind of like if I was too afraid of being tense of getting kind of like rejected as somebody who has autism does. And I mean, another question they had, I guess like formed on who I'm most afraid of being rejected by and I would pose her to question to her, would those be people who are interested in David Krohnberg and people are interested in she said the people who are interested in David Krohnberg. And I'm like, well, why would I worry quite as much about the people who are interested when if they're not interested in that podcast that I wouldn't be involved with that like we're talking about David Krohnberg. What should I assume it's something more personal to me while people who are interested that is kind of like more of an issue of things being about me. I mean, and some, I will say maybe one good point she made is how people could be certainly interested in just hearing me talk and hearing my thoughts about movies, even if they may not be interested in Krohnberg. But then what did feel irritating as I think we did have some little talks going on too long and maybe it was me being too intense about my anxiety and thinking of who to start and who to reach out. I have another friend from the past who's like another friend ship I have really going on now who I reconnected with and became closer friends with it than I was in elementary school. But I had some good interactions with her then and it turned out like her mom was also like a real big fan of David Krohnberg's The Fly and I wasn't clear if she was aware of my podcast when we already talked with her and when we had a connection. So I'm not going to say lasting gay, but maybe I'll say my friend from the past hate and and her mom and when we were having dinner with her husband when before my podcast was officially all out yet and when we were letting Hayden's mom know like the certain movies David Krohnberg had done and the one The Fly which was one that Hayden's mom was a big fan of as kind of like many other people are actually. So I felt like that would be kind of a good podcast episode for her to kind of listen to and I think because I guess I was and I don't think it was till like the next day I texted Hayden's mom about me having the review of the Fly podcast episode when I was just kind of a feeling. So wore an out and irritated for my therapist and there was going to be good question or what would happen to Hayden's mom and she did let me know how I didn't realize you have that that episode. How can I access it and I center both the one on Spotify and she was so glad to have that. So that was the case of me. It turned out not having reached out enough after all and to be careful about making sure that it might in fact be the story that I haven't reached out enough rather than maybe having the assumption that I've reached out too much really like you may assume from somebody with autism really which I think was kind of a bigger point that I was trying to get to gay with the story. Yeah, that's interesting because there are assumptions that other people can make about you and then there's also assumptions that you can make about you due to anxiety or insecurity like maybe I said too much or maybe I even heard you in this conversation like why I might have gone on too long about that or you know we're all doing that stuff in our minds. I think neurotypical people do it as well. I constantly have this thing in my own mind like did you say the right thing? Did you make a mistake here? Did you piss this person off? So we're always I think making those assumptions and judgments about ourselves the same way other people are. I think that's something that you know we you and I have in common for sure. Yeah. So read as we as we prepare to close the episode I want you to let people know a little bit about your podcast and where they can find it. So it can be found I think right now on Spotify, pod being and and Apple iTunes and I don't know with anybody uses those I don't know if I should send it to other places and is there anything more debut want to say about the specifics or like what people can do to support it is that part of also what you're absolutely and the name. So the name sorry, cinema on the spectrum is the name sorry didn't let let that add to neurom. So yeah, you would type in some on the spectrum on either Spotify, Apple, iTunes, or look for it on pod being there's also a Facebook page that I specifically created called some on the spectrum where I post about the movies. I've been, I have a fair number of followers. I have been disappointed though, I'm afraid to say to that I haven't gotten more comments or feedback on more particular episodes or messages from email anybody and they can email me on specific on my podcast, podcast, count, sim on the spectrum at gmail.com. I'm really happy to hear thoughts and and there's and I've got my own Instagram account called sim on the spectrum Instagram where you can follow updates on there and discover when new episodes have dropped and make comments on if you're somebody who's made the start to listen for maybe there was a particular episode you want to start listen to if you are a particular fan of a particular movie as kind of Hayden's mom was particular fan of the fly maybe you want to go ahead and listen to that or you may just kind of want to hear our stories from what we did from the very beginning of reviewing David Crowdenberg's first films and you're welcome to kind of like watch the movies before listening to the podcast you're also welcome to not watch the movies because you may enjoy listening to the podcast more I show for example my parents David Crowdenberg's first movie I know my mom especially hated it but it has really enjoyed hearing me and Michael talk about his movie. Yeah, and of course a podcast episode about a film is going to be very different than the film itself and so you never know you may love the podcast episode and hate the film or vice versa and about I just want to say about being disappointed about lack of comments or feedback that's also something you and I have in common and I get very impatient with creative projects that I'm involved in and I want I want eyes and ears on the things that I do you know this podcast included and it's frustrating but the reality is that things take time to grow yeah you know it's like buying a seed and being like why the hell aren't you a plant yet you know it has to grow it has takes time so that's important for me to remember too I have two more things read before we go the first is what they're both questions have you seen the animated show on PBS called Carl the collector no I happen what about it Gabe Carl the collector is I'm in love with the show and it is an animated show it's for children but I watch it my wife and I watch it my kids watch it with us sometimes when they're not there we watch it ourselves and it is about a raccoon with autism and he has different collections of things bottle caps marbles remote controls and the show it's brand new on PBS kids this is not a paid sponsorship I just love the show and it is in my opinion it's such a beautiful wonderful way to show what autism spectrum disorders can be like like there's one episode in particular where Carl invites his friends over to watch the super blue moon you know it's this rare event every 10 years and he has this schedule of how he wants the night to go and he thinks start happening and the schedule doesn't happen exactly the way Carl wants and he gets very frustrated and very upset and his mom helps him calm down and just enjoy the night for what it is but it's hard for him because he really wants things to go his way and there's another episode where his friend falls and hurts her knee and he freezes because he doesn't know how to react and his friend gets very upset with him she's like why didn't Carl say are you okay like anyone else would but Carl you know got so locked up in his own head that he just didn't react the right way the right way but anyway it's a wonderful show it's on PBS kids the creator of it actually lives in Narbath so it's like a local thing too so it's just kind of neat I think you should check it out. Okay well maybe I will check that out at some point well I also I guess get gave I also just realized something to before we get to your other question of I don't know if I'm spoiling things too much ahead but I mentioned to you before coming back on to C87 recovery diaries maybe when I have the film done or when it's like closer to being done and I think I don't know if one thing I'll do by the time I get to that that next podcasting session is to see at least one or two episodes of that show and maybe kind of talk with you a little bit about that I would love it to our next podcasting session what and you will and you will be back read that's for sure and I get the last question that I have for you is and I was watching the film that we made together with Glenn at Fresh Fly's old location I was watching that this morning with my wife just to re familiarize myself with it and I think I actually asked you this question in the film and this was eight years ago so I'm curious to see if your answer has changed the question that I asked you is what's if you had to give one take away to people what's something that you want people to know about you as someone who lives with autism well I think one thing it gave this leads us to another big conversation I think I do really kind of like want to touch on as you ask that particular question we talked very extensively kind of about David and Arrowhead Camp in the past but one friendship that was really also complicated lasted longer than David that I kind of talk a lot of different feelings about in the film is my friendship with a guy named Josh and one of the things that I felt a lot about what this film is kind of partly about is what it can be like and I mean maybe this could be applied to David too but one particular thing about Josh that I do kind of like want to touch on I think to some degree is how I there was a lot of different complications and difficulties between that particular friendship even as there's this theme I think also of me having autism that may have had an impact in some other way but because also Josh had such a was also such a complicated guy also had some other complicated relationships to there are other people with similar in different stories that had an impact I touch a little bit some things about my friend Justin in that film and the fact that he had his own complicated story with it Josh while he's not somebody with autism and I sometimes have had my questions if other things could have also been impacted there in some level like the fact that Justin was the only actually Asian guy in our second grade class and I don't know if like it was true in school and how he was kind of impacted how he had to also take it Japanese classes in the weekend and how that all might have impacted things and and there was another guy who was less friendly with with me as I talk a little bit bit about my film in the particulars of that but saw then Justin another guy whose name maybe I just kind of won't entirely mention but who mother did kind of like go at whose parents got divorced after turned out his mother was a lesbian was with another woman and I sometimes have had my questions on how that all impacted his relationship with Josh too so there's just a lot of different stories out there that could contain different insecurities like I think one way I had of looking at it is like the whole different stories going on of the Spider-Man character of Miles Morales and there's a lot that emphasizes him as Spider-Man particularly in the Spider-Man into the first into the Spider-Man versus moving, they don't really touch on race in particular while there's also really good video game that does, I think, touch a lot more on the fact that like Miles Morales is from Heart of the Lombon things like that while also having him being Spider-Man, being a big theme. So I don't know, Gabe, if that all makes sense to answer your question, even though maybe it answers the question for myself better in my head and interesting thinking about it. But that's okay. I mean, that's part of the reason why we have these conversations because it helps, it helps us figure things out about ourselves. And I'm just so grateful that you wanted to spend some time and talk with us and I'm very excited for your film to be finished, to see it and enjoy it and to bring you back on the show to talk about it. Thank you so much, Gabe. Thank you. And take care. Thank you again for joining us in conversation today. It's beautiful to see the progression of our contributors. It is always such a pleasure to catch up with Reed Smith. He's a filmmaker with autism and he has his own podcast. It is called Cinema on the Spectrum. He's a remarkable young man doing incredible things and proud to know him and have him as our guest here on Recovery Diaries in Depth and to share him and his work with you. Before we leave you, we want to remind you to check out our website, recoverydiaries.org. There, like this podcast, you'll find additional stories, videos and content about mental health, empowerment and change. We look forward to continuing to grow our community. Thank you so much for being a part of it. We wouldn't be here without you. Be sure to join our mailing list so you never miss a podcast episode, essay or film. I'm Gabe Nathan. Until next time, take good care. [MUSIC]