248: Festive Fiascos..

This week's episode is brought to you by AbbVie. Chronic migraine means 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox, onobotulinum toxin A, prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It prevents, on average, eight to nine headache days a month versus six to seven for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Botox effects may spread hours to weeks after injection, causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as trouble swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. Those with these conditions before injection are at the highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reaction like rash, breathing problems, dizziness, neck, and injection site pain, and headache. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions like ALS, myasthenia gravis, or Lambert-Eaton syndrome, and medications like botulinum toxins, which may increase the risk of serious side effects. Make a plan and ask your doctor about Botox. Visit BotoxChronicMigraine.com or call 1-800-44-BOTOX. This episode is brought to you by Vinted. Season is changing. Time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process. Vinted is a secondhand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe. It's super simple to use and with no selling fees, so you keep what you earn. Give your clothes a second life with Vinted. Download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees. Are you ready? I'm ready. JT, ready? Yes. Hello, Too Hot Takes family. Happy holidays. I know this episode is coming out right around Christmas and Hanukkah just passed and there's lots of other lovely holidays. Yes. Yes. So many. Yes. So many lovely holidays. So I hope everyone is having a really, really just magical holiday season and it hasn't been chaotic like the stories we're going to cover today. Going to be a really fun, special episode. Teeing it up, we've got Justin here. Yes. Starting us off. And hi, I'm Morgan. If this is your first Too Hot Takes episode, welcome. You're in for a treat because not only do you get Justin this episode, you're going to get Michaela and you're going to get Lauren and maybe you're going to get Justin. Maybe another special guest or two. We'll see what shapes up, but it's going to be an amazing episode to close off this year. I guess if you are having a chaotic holiday, well, this is a nice distraction. I would hope so because- Because you can compare to these stories, I guess. I know. I thought our holidays have been rough in past years, but these ones today I think are going to take the cake. Probably. Probably. So let's just get into these. Let's get into these horrible holidays. Nice one. Let's dive in. Let's get into the next story. I repeat, trigger warning for the big man up north, Santa Claus. Okay. Are we good? Safe? Is this a safe space now? Yes. We're ready? Mm-hmm. Okay. It's coming from r slash true off my chest. It is titled, Guy I'm Seeing Legitimately Thinks Santa Claus is Real. I support it. I think he actually believes Santa is a real person in some capacity and thinks he delivers presents to his family personally, question mark. I'm probably going to leave tomorrow because it's been a awful trip so far, and I just want out. I'll call him Adam. Fake name. Adam, 25, is from a pretty rural area up in the mountains, keeping it vague on purpose, and his family are what I'd consider religious extremists. He told me this before I, 23 female, came to see them for Christmas, that they were very religious, as are mine, so I thought it would be similar. I'm not seeing my own family, as I just have my abusive mom left, and we are no contact. I've only been seeing him a couple of months, and his beliefs have only come up minimally, and Santa Claus was not a part of that, lol. I don't even think we've mentioned it at all, despite walking around Walmart with Christmas decorations and holiday stuff on shelves and him saying he wishes there was more Christian decor. Adam and his friend call Santa Saint Nick to start off with. He has a large family, and we had a lot of regular Christmas Eve activities all day, including cooking, breakfast and dinner with his family, sitting around and playing with the children, going to a church event around lunchtime. When we went to church, his mom would shake her head disapprovingly at some references towards Santa Claus that the pastor made, and would whisper to his younger brother and her nephew next to her. I didn't hear what she said. When we made dinner, she told me to fix a place for us to eat. And I laughed and said, quote, cookies aren't enough. And Adam shot me a horrified look. I felt the gaze of his mother, and she gave me a sort of fake smile and said, no, hon, that's not a filling meal. So I loaded up about as much as I gave Adam and the men in his family and put it on a plate. His mom put tinfoil over it and put it in the fridge in the point about two thirds of his family left. The children went to bed after about an hour of it being dark. Adam's mom told them to go settle in a bed so St. Nick can have his dinner and start to deliver presents. This gave me the implication that he would start his night here rather than just stop by and have cookies and leave. I'm not sure. His mom read a couple of passages out of it, and we discussed my family situation a bit. Adam's dad then told Adam and I, as well as his little sister, to go to the guest house to sleep. It was about 9 p.m. I changed in the bathroom and said my goodnight to them and was about to walk out the door with Adam when his mom snapped her fingers and said, quote, hon, you're forgetting the most important part of Christmas. Adam looked pale for a second before kind of nervously laughing and stepped back through the door, holding my hand. We went out into the garage where he grabbed the plate. I'd said something like, quote, she's really serious about Santa getting his food, huh? Trying to lighten the mood. He squeezed my hand really hard and said, quote, yes, I'd say it's serious. We went back into microwave the meal, and we awkwardly stood there in front of the microwave watching the plate turn around. I felt his parents' gaze on the back of my head. I said something again. I can't even remember. Kind of lighthearted about Santa having a full stomach if he eats like this at every house. Adam gripped my hand harder than he did before, and the first sign of affection he had given me in front of his parents all night and said, quote, his name is St. Nicholas, and he only eats his dinner here. Don't be disrespectful in our home. It sounds calm, all typed out like that, but the way he said it gave me chills. His parents didn't say anything, and I felt like I was going to cry. Ha ha. I left to walk in the backyard to the guest house, and his sister was waiting in this mostly empty living room area in there. She said she started the wood-burning stove there, and she showed me where to sleep, a twin bed next to her, and said Adam would be in the next room over with his younger brother. I just laid down, and I heard Adam come in maybe half an hour later and go straight to bed. I've just been laying here, unable to get to sleep, because I'm so anxious, lol. And I already hear movement in the main house at this point, and I don't know what to think. I thought after everyone had left, mostly small children, the St. Nick talk would end. I think his family, or at least him and everyone younger, legitimately believes that this is a real person. His parents are really strict and live relatively off-grid and isolated. I barely have service here, so I'll see if this even posts, because I can't even text my friends SOS right now. I feel like I'm in a horror movie, where they believe Santa is like a distant uncle or something. Does anyone know of any traditions like this? They killed a pig sometime in the last week as well as a couple of chickens, and the whole family is coming back tomorrow, and maybe it'll be less weird with more people being here? A few of his cousins gave me a more modern vibe rather than the rest of his nuclear family, but I don't know. I might just head back to my apartment a couple of hours away alone. I don't think I can continue seeing him. It's just been so weird. I'm, like, scared. I'm scared for her. It's giving a little bit get out vibes, but I'm the first guy that'll say I would love Santa to be real. I think that'd be awesome. Imagine if that were real. That'd be so cool. You know, the thing is. I'd be so down with that. I'm, like, so into the foo-foo. Like, I think, like, I don't know. I believe in fairies. Why not Santa? It's kind of sad to think it's not a reality, you know? I know. It's, like, I like to think there's someone up at the North Pole and they're making all the gifts. Like, I want to think that the movie Elf plays out in real life. Yeah. That just makes, I don't know, there's something cozy and warm about that. But regardless, this is giving get out. This is giving why don't you have Wi-Fi. And the squeezing the hand. That. Just the fact that none of this behavior has happened until now. Like, this is the night. It's, like, Jesus is coming. He's coming. He's coming to our house to grace us and sit at the table and eat the food we prepped for him. That's, it's being mixed with religion very intensely, especially given the religious extremist comment at the top. Yeah. And so I just, I'm seeing them sort of morphing them together. Or if Saint Nick is, like, the saint that's coming down and doing this. I don't know what else to really think about it. Aside from, I, it seems like the start of a horror movie. It really does. But a holiday-based horror movie. I'm surprised. Where Saint Nick shows up. Yeah, there isn't something like this. And all of a sudden, all this crazy stuff starts happening. That's not cool. That's what I'm getting here. And it's weird because he did warn her at the beginning, like, hey, my family, you know, they're a little extreme. Like, they're religious extremists. So he warned her about that, but didn't say, like. Oh, by the way, like, we also have these very strict, steadfast traditions surrounding Saint Nicholas. Like, I will, you know, around my family, I'm going to be very into them. It's just, it's easier than, you know, stirring the pot. Is he as into it? Is he part of the little cult? I don't know. Or is it just to appease? It didn't seem like he was so aggressive when they were walking around Walmart and, like, looking at everything. And, like, I'm going to be honest, like, I think, like, Christmas has become a very hallmark tradition. Like, I know a lot of people are still steadfast and they go to church and they say mass and they do all of these things. But, like, I think when you go out and you go to a store, there's not a lot of religious Christmas decorations out there. I've seen, like, my first nativity scene in person this year. But, like, you don't see a lot of, like, baby Jesus decor when you go shopping. Like, maybe that's just my neck of the woods. I'm in L.A. Like, there's not, I'm not in the Bible Belt. So maybe if I go to a Walmart in the Bible Belt, it's kind of a different story. But his red flags weren't coming out then where, like, he's seen Santa Claus and he's like, I can't believe people don't call him St. Nicholas. It's St. Nicholas, not Santa Claus. Like, you think there would have been more coming out leading up to this. Like, at every St. Nick, sorry, at every St. Nick decoration, he bows down. He bows down and does a quick prayer. Something. Or some, imagine, imagine doing that. Some little. Oh, my gosh. All the decorations. Holy Ghost. Just every time. But it's like, I, I fully understand the religious aspect of the holidays. And, like, I, I'm happy for people that celebrate in that way that they find meaningful to them. But, like, this just feels very odd. It feels like he was just, like, so, I don't know. Like, he does seem really locked in. And I feel like he should have prepared her better. Like, even the sleeping arrangement. Like, OP walked in and is kind of like, well, where do I sleep? And the little sister is like, you sleep out here with me on this twin bed. In that moment in the story, I thought she was going to walk back in. And I thought it was going to be the little sister lit the fire. And then she was draped in, like, cloaks. And then she was going to do this interesting spell or ritual. Ritual with the pig. What's up with the killing of the pig? Is that normal? Is this normal? Is killing pigs normal? Well, people do pig roasts. I get that. But it didn't seem, the way it was presented, it didn't seem like they were preparing the pig for the dinner. It felt like, it felt like ceremonial sacrifice. That's what it was giving. Especially with the chickens and whatever else they killed. I feel like that's just, like, a lot of people do pig roasts. Yeah, but it wasn't presented that way. No, I think OP is scared out of her mind and is now just like, also, you guys, there's this pig and this chicken. And, like, I'm on SOS mode and I need to get the book out. How do you, like, I think at this point you just start catastrophizing to where you're like, am I in midsummer right now? Yes, that's another good reference. Like, this feels midsummer-y. I think you just start running. Run, run, run. I don't know where they are. They're in the mountains. It's giving, is it giving Appalachia? Appalachian? Yeah. For people? Like, is this, is, where is this? It's in the North Pole. Where do you guys think this is? North Pole. Antarctica? Is this Alaska? She said mountains. Rural. Up in the mountains. Well, it's going to be out east or out west. Not right here in Minnesota because technically right now this is coming out. We're in Minnesota. Oh, my God. The flatlands. The flatlands. So, crazy thing is, this post is two years old. So, this is kind of before AI ever took over Reddit. It's giving very real post in my, in my head. OP did not use. It didn't use this account to try to karma farm. It was literally like coming in, trying to get help and then like posting a little bit of an update for us. There we go. So, we do have an update. Top comment is, sounds like you stumbled onto a Santa worshiping cult. Very strange. Bizarre. Someone responds, it's St. Nicholas. That's exactly what I was thinking. How dare you? Yep. Someone responds to that. Yeah. Like, don't be disrespectful. Don't be disrespectful on our thread. So, do we think that's what was going on at church that day? Was the pastor saying Santa and that's why she kept whispering? Yeah. Like, how could he not know? St. Nicholas. Disrespect. St. Nicholas. I will say, obviously, a lot of people are like, meh, that's fake. Meh. But, OP does come back and provide an update for us. Also, I'm so curious now. Santa worshiping cults. Um. Well, apparently, there is a cult of St. Nicholas, cults, but I'm like, I think it was like Nicholas started a cult, St. Nicholas, I don't know. It's, it's confusing. If anyone, I see this is where I need Kaylin and to be like, hey, have you heard of a Santa cult? Cause is Santa tied to any of the religious aspect? They're not really interweaved, right? You don't see Santa in the nativity scene. No. But like St. Nicholas. I mean, honestly. His depiction. His depictions do make him kind of look like a modern Santa. Mmm. What year is that? Um. 270 AD. Oh. Yup. St. Nicholas of Myra, also known as Nicholas of Bari, was an early Christian bishop of Greek descent from the maritime city of Pantera in Anatolia during the time of the Roman Empire. How do you get Santa from St. Nicholas? I don't know. Because of the many miracles attributed to his intercession. He is also known as Nicholas the Wonder Worker. He had extraordinary generosity, kindness, and secret gift giving. And he liked to make toys. Particularly to the poor children, which made him the inspiration for Santa Claus or Sinterklaas in the tradition. Yeah. What's the origin of that? You know? Sinterklaas? Yes. Sinterklaas or St. Nicholas is a legendary figure based on St. Nicholas. Wow. Patron saint of children. Other Dutch names for the figure include De Sint. De Gode Sint. And De Gode Helgeman. Nice. Okay. Sinterklaas. Sure. It could be Claus also, but it's giving Claus. I don't know what to believe. Okay. But let's read the update. Yes. So someone comments after, and it says, "I wonder if OP is still alive." OP does respond, "I'm still alive, not dead. Holidays ended horribly. And my relationship is over. Probably for the best now that I've had time away from him, talked to friends, read comments, because I essentially ruined Christmas. St. Nick literally left the food untouched because there was a non-believer in the house." Mmm. That's why. And, quote, "Adam's mom made a point of it being because I was there. And I was essentially barred from seeing him and called a degenerate in front of his whole family." I really did want to make a proper update to this, but felt ridiculous and embarrassed that it, one, blew up so huge, and two, because everything I said was absolutely picked apart. I get it that it sounded dramatic and whatever. I guess I just write dramatically. But I treated this no different to how I write in my diary. So I think this is it. I can't imagine any other way to put it. I'm just going to read it to you. I'm going to read it to you. And I'm going to read it to you. alone with crazy religious nuts and in my feels only for it to be called a horror movie in the making. Like, yeah, I know, my life right now just sucks. I wish there was more to say or it was more dramatic for everyone wanting that, but I just don't have it in me. Wish I had a real family and relationships that don't suck. I wish I had answers for you of why his family is so crazy around the holidays and aren't normal people that let their son date girls outside their borderline Amish lifestyle. I don't know. The end. You gotta get through the bad ones to get to the good ones. You sure do. You really will get all of that, but you won't get that by staying in something like this. I mean, this was never going to work out, even if you guys distance from the pair. I mean, how do you ever get past that? Because I'm just still confused on how tied in he is and how much he pushes this versus it just being in front of the parents and kind of. getting her prepared for that whole situation. But other than that, I just look forward. I know it sucks. Like, it's the worst feeling, especially around the holidays when everyone's together and this and that. But the thing is, for you, at the time of this update, it's a new year, a new start, really, in terms of relationships. And you can only go up from here when it's concerned with the holidays. You can only go up. Literally. Like, your holidays can only get better after this. You can only go up. I know. I mean, this is two years old now. I hope OP is out there. And I honestly hope we get an update of, like, I heard my story and I want to update you guys that, like, here's where I'm at now, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, had two great Christmases since the holidays or whatever. I know. And it's kind of annoying, like, how many people did question this in the comments, because, like, I don't know why people are so skeptic when they're. There's, like, a crazy unique experience, because, like, this is not that out there. Like, look at the cults that exist and what people get sucked into. This is not that far-fetched. And I would have a hard time if I, like, I went somewhere and I was like, what the fuck was this? I need help. And everyone's like, fake movie. And it's like, I don't know. Like, the update does make me think this is genuine. Like, just kind of like, I don't even have it in me to give you guys an update. Like, this is it. It was crazy. His mom hated me. St. Nicholas didn't come. Non-believer. Meh. Yeah. I mean, unless you're. Like, not. She's not karma farming. Because if you were karma farming, you'd write a big update to capitalize on that. Yeah. I mean, unless you're saying, you know, aliens took you in the middle of the night and you went to other lands and had all these experiences and did all this, and then you woke up back in your bed. Anything I've ever heard on this show, even if the story isn't real, it's happened. Okay? In some way or another, it has happened. It maybe wasn't written into Reddit, but I don't know. I feel like the weirder stuff is, the more real it is. Because there's so many things. And, you know, when I compare my life to Reddit, there's not as many. But there's so many things I've even experienced where I'm like, this is so weird. You couldn't make this up. But I don't know. I'm all for putting out the stuff and the sparkles for the reindeer and I'm for leaving cookies and some milk for Santa. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of want to bring that back. I'm excited to have a kid to be able to do that again. Yeah. Because I miss that. I know. There's something magical. I mean, haven't we all seen Elf? The holiday spirit? I know. I know. We've opened up a holiday advice hotline over on Patreon for a live show we were doing with Patreon. And so a lot of people ask questions and they're like, how do I get that holiday magic back? Like, I don't, like, I don't like the holidays. I actually hate the holidays. It's a sad reminder or like, you know, things like that. And it's just like, I think you can like get involved in your community. And I think like one of the things we did this year was Angel Tree. And like, that was so special for us. These trees are going to new homes and we're kind of like sponsoring a family that we know that lost their home in the Altadena fires and like giving them a tree and just kind of like everything to put under it for their family. So I think there's ways to give back. But like, even if you can't contribute financially, going and volunteering at, a place that provides a Christmas meal is amazing. I used to do it every single year for Thanksgiving and sitting down and sharing a meal with people that don't have families, don't have friends, don't maybe have a home. Like it is such a, it's a hard, it's hard to describe, but it just is such a good experience. And I think something we're missing right now and why we feel so disconnected and holidays aren't as like magical. We have lost such a human sense of connection. Like we don't have a lot of spaces, you know? So I think that is also why I understand like the magic of going to a church and song and whatever. Like, I, I just think we need to kind of come together a little bit more and like share a meal with strangers and people and give back. And so if you want to up your holiday magic this year, that could be a good way to do it. I know, granted, this is coming out Christmas day, but you know, go roll up. I don't know what time you're listening to this. Go roll up. Go roll up. Just go roll up at a local little food show. Roll up. Little pantry. Roll up. Yeah. Roll up. Roll up. There's always time to give back and connect with people. So if you're feeling a lonely, get out there. Also, we're here. Come hop on the Patreon group chat. I know everyone's like so connected over there. It just, it does. It does feel really nice. Yeah. But okay. Happy OP is safe. I am glad she made it out. And OP, if you're out there listening, I would like another update. Okay. Story number two for us here. Yes. This is coming from our very own two, I take subreddit. It is titled, is it petty to cancel my boyfriend's PS5 order after he spoiled the surprise again? No. I, 27 female, finally caved and bought my boyfriend, 26 male, a PS5 for Christmas. He's been eyeing the new system for over a year, but never bought it because we're trying to save for a house and he couldn't justify the cost. I found a decent black Friday deal, the PS5 plus NBA 2K26 bundle for 450. And I thought it would be the perfect surprise. While we were at lunch today, he asked how much I'd spent on Christmas gifts. So things would be even. I told him I spent a little more than 250, which was a lie, but I honestly don't like the idea of Christmas being treated like a spending competition. It shouldn't be about the price tag. He kept pushing about whether I knew what he was getting me. I told him I only knew one thing because he basically told me, but I didn't want to know the rest. In the car, he kept going, insisting he needed to get me more because I spent too much. I asked what he meant. And he just said, laughing, quote, I know you're a horrible liar. It rubbed me the wrong way. So I asked him to explain. He looked at me and said, quote, which PS5 game do you want me to go buy you? And then laughed like it was a joke. I laughed, too, because I was shocked. But I tried to play it off by saying he was being delusional and that I would never spend that much. He kept insisting I was a great liar. This isn't the first time he's done something like this. Last year, he ruined the surprise of an expensive pair of shoes I bought him. He snoops around the house looking for hiding spots, shakes packages, pushes and pushes until I'm exhausted and finally tell him for his birthday. We planned for a friend to fly in as a surprise. He checked their Snapchat location and basically spoiled his own surprise. Even this year, I got him a hat while he was at work. He texted me nonstop asking what I bought until I finally caved because I was tired of the interrogation. I'm honestly just tired. I put money, effort and genuine thought into making holidays and birthdays special for him. And he acts like a spoiled kid who has to go. He claims I also always find out my gifts, but 90% of the time it's because he tells me or drops hints because he gets too excited. Why can't he just leave things alone and let gifts be surprises? At this point, should I cancel slash sell the PS5 or just give it to him anyway? Listen to all the time. His daughter, he called his daughter because she he wanted to illustrate this exact topic. Really? And he called her and he said, Hey, so can you tell everyone the experience you had about peeking into your Christmas gifts early and what that led to? And she kind of said, well, there was one year we got really curious because it was her and a sibling or something. And we just tore the we found out you could lift the corner and then see what is and put it back in the bag. And she said, well, I'm not sure if it's because Santa will bring us other gifts. So we'll still be surprised, but we just have to know early what one of our gifts says. Well, lo and behold, they saw every gift that was already there. Come that morning, they opened it all. They knew what it all was. And they made the decision as young kids to never do that again because it just ruins the magic of it all. It does. And it's like Santa or not Christmas or birthdays or whatever the gift or surprise. the prize is related to, it takes all the breath out of it and sure you know yeah you might still appreciate the gift of the surprise just as much as the recipient but for the the person giving it to you it does kind of ruin it i mean like if i think about any of the gifts i've done for you that have been more or less a surprise you know like wedding gift or things like this that haven't been things you've given me that's been more, I'm going to go get this special thing. I, it does kind of, you know, it doesn't take away the, the gift you're giving, but it does kind of take away the magic of it. I don't know how else to put that. Yeah. I think like if, especially if gift giving is your love language and you are someone that puts so much thought and energy and time and like consideration into someone's gift, to then be met time and time again with like, you're a bad liar. I know you got me. It's like, it just is so disheartening. But at the same time, like this is your person, your boyfriend, but you're like saving up to buy a house together. No mention of how long they've been together, unless I'm missing that. Curious. But like, this is him. Like this is going to continue to be him. I'm curious if you've ever tried to set a boundary. And Ben like, Hey, please stop ruining surprises. If you do this again, you will not get that gift. Like, I'm curious if you've set a boundary, but also do you have to, like, can you just let him be him? Like for me, I buy people's gifts and I'm so excited to give it to them, but I don't like, I don't ruin it. Like, I think a lot of times I'll just like wrap it and give it to them early. Exactly. Yeah. Like I'm just like, here it came, open it. And I'm always like, no, it's not the day yet. It's not even mine. It's not my birthday. And you're like, open it. I know. Last year I was better though, where I, I did hold out and I was like, okay, fine. I'll wait. And like reading this, I kind of see, I'm like, Ooh, like don't ruin people's surprises. I never ruin a surprise. I never tell people or like go crazy like this, but I just, as soon as I get it, I wrap it and I want to give it to people. But it's different as the giver, I think, right? Because you're making that choice to reveal that surprise if you want to early. That's true. If you want to break it to them. Yeah. It's different as the recipient because you, you don't understand what you're taking away from the giver. And, you know, people could say, well, that's not what it's about. You know, it's about the gift. And if you're already giving them that gift and that's the plan, then give it to them like you planned, unless you've experienced it from the giving side. And I think you put it so perfectly with the love language. If you're, if you're naturally a gift giver and you like get so much from that, there is so much magic in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching them light up. That's not why you gave them the gift, right? That's not, that's not the whole purpose is the praise you get back and everything. It's more just, you want to make them really happy and you want to give them a genuine surprise. If they hate surprises and that's a different conversation, but you just want to see them light up because that makes it so special. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, this would get annoying. It would. It does kind of need to grow up. And if this isn't going to change and that's, you know, it would. It would take a toll over time. It happens not just once a year. You know, there's gift giving throughout the year and I don't know, it's kind of a lot to. What would you do? Would you return it? I don't know. If you're this hurt by it? I don't know if that's petty. I'm trying to like decide if that's petty or not. Because then if you change up the gift, you're going to be met with all this disappointment or subtle disappointment. I'd really, I'd fuck with them. It would be like hidden in a closet, not under the tree. And then you give. Something else that's like really low bar. Fake tickets. Give them fake tickets to like a sporting game that look expensive. And then they're fake. Like you can literally print them off of Google images, like Photoshop the fuck out of it. I don't know. Like I would fuck with him. And people are gonna be like, that's toxic. Stop ruining my surprises, bitch. Yeah. Like I'd fuck with them. It's part of the surprise. Psych. Not your gift. I guess you could start. Because it's NBA 2K20. It's a basketball video game. I'd get him basketball tickets. And then like, oh, wait, what are those tickets for? Yeah. And it's like for like a fucking like fake ass court in the game. Like I'd make it about the gift, but I wouldn't let him have the satisfaction of being right. I'd kind of mess with him a little bit. I guess if I guess you this is a point where you need to determine what the outlook of the future is. Yeah. Is this someone you're in for the long haul? Because then that's a good strategy. Start doing a smoke and mirrors thing where you really start to mess with them until you're almost teaching them to stop doing this and stop ruining all the surprises by making it so complicated that you can't guess. Just mess with them. But if this is really taking a toll to where you're like, I don't know if this is my person, then obviously that's different. Yeah. There are some of you out there that have definitely dealt with this with a partner. What have you done that made them stop ruining surprises? What have you done without being like over the top crazy? I'm like my idea. I'm kind of sitting here and I'm like, okay, Morgan, that's a little off the rails, but I'm kind of I'm just like annoyed at this. Fart spray in a box. I know. And then you open it. Oh, God, that'd be horrible. That takes you out, though, too. So someone does say, yes, it's petty. Why insist on a surprise gift when you know you can't effectively hide things? And he clearly doesn't want to wait to be surprised. I suggest just telling him from now on that you are getting him blank for Christmas birthday anniversary. And stop the process that will inevitably frustrate you. It's not fun, though. Why give him anything? He should be mature enough to not ruin those things. O.P. responds fair. It just sucks to be excited about getting him something I know he wants and would never buy himself. Someone else comments. Do you hate him? Yeah, it's annoying that he ruined it. But some people are just like this and don't want slash need to be surprised. If you want him to surprise you. I think it's fair to express that and expect him to actually keep his trap shut. But if he doesn't mind not being surprised, I don't think it's fair to impart your desire for surprises on him. I don't know. I don't know about this. I literally just saw a video of a woman that was like, you guys were driving to a raccoon farm. My husband doesn't know. He loves raccoons. Not my thing. I don't get it. But I love him. So I'm going to make sure he gets to do something he loves. You do these things for the other people. I don't necessarily love a surprise, but I know you love giving surprises. So you know what? So where's the line? Sometimes a surprise freaks me out. A little too out of my control. Right, but I wouldn't go around throwing you surprise parties. You're not going to put me like I think. Yeah. And you're also not going to like surprise me with something, you know, I'd hate like sky skydiving. You wouldn't take me skydiving. You know that? Nope. Giving me ideas. Don't you dare. O.P. does respond and goes. I don't hate him. I just feel like it's so childish to purposefully ruin surprises just for the sake of being clever enough to figure it out. It just feels very Veruca salt to me. I don't know. I'm with you. A lot of people question how he knows, like, send it to your mom's house, send it to a friend's house. And O.P. is like, I literally shipped it to my mom's house. We wouldn't find it. Someone else is like, is it possible he snoops on your phone? Which I don't know. We do have an up. Date. OK. Wow. This blew up more than I expected. I read through the comments and while some were helpful, a lot of people went straight to he's stalking you and monitoring your devices. Wow. I want to clarify a few things. I talked to my boyfriend about everything. I told him I'm tired of putting so much energy into gifts just for the surprise to be ruined every time. I explained that it takes the fun out of it for me and makes the whole holiday feel like a chore instead of something sweet. He told me he does have his suspicions. But he genuinely didn't know what I bought. He doesn't have access to my emails, texts, bank accounts, browser history, anything like that. And he's not the type to even try. He's not sneaky or controlling. He's just goofy and playful and gets way too into figuring things out because he likes the thrill of a guessing game. He thought I liked that back and forth, too, because we usually end up laughing and telling each other our gifts anyways, especially when they're smaller or obvious. For the hat. He said, I don't know. He said he only put two and two together because he saw the store bag while we were on FaceTime when I was at the outlet mall. As for the PS5 comment, my mom had been talking nonstop about the PS5 being on sale for Black Friday, and he said he genuinely just took a random guess. He only doubled down because I reacted and pushed back, so he assumed he got lucky. So, no, he's not spying on me. He just genuinely needs to chill with the gift-guessing habit. I've decided I'm not returning the PS5. I'm still doing it. I'm still going to give it to him. I might get a little sneaky and not put it under the tree or maybe give it to him later in the day at his mom's house just for the extra surprise factor. Maybe I overreacted. Maybe I was just pissed in that moment, but the advice and funny comments helped me cool down and laugh about it. Thank you, everyone. Yeah, I don't think I was ever in the camp of return it, but I do like the smoke and mirrors. Like, let's start to really amp it up. You're never guessing this one. And then just throw his scent off the trail every time. I know. Because, you know, obviously he's receptive and it's just kind of. of a miscommunication or just a different style of gift giving and receiving but i would have fun with it i would turn this into a game where it's like keep guessing buddy keep guessing no i actually think the idea of like basketball tickets or something that goes with it where you're like i don't know like a controller or like but then if you give a controller then it's like oh i got the console like you need to give something related but like not i think like an old-fashioned game boy dude go find a vintage like game boy and a box and like a little nba game be like it's not a ps5 but i thought i thought it'd be good still yeah you can find those old gaming consoles and stuff at um goodwill yeah thrift store salvation army i'm literally gonna try to send op a message just be like hey i got ideas for you on how to smoke and mirrors them but my reddit is glitching and will not start a chat right now so we're gonna have to um come back to that in a little bit but that's all that's all we got on this one okay i have one last thing here okay uh if this is coming out prior to your gift opening everyone gets gifts from people where it's like eh this is not really what i wanted but you have to do that thing oh yeah right so everyone you have to do that you have to do that you have to do that you have to do that you have to do that okay so you're opening something you open it and it's like super random you're almost kind of trying to figure out what it is and then someone's like it's the and you have to go oh yeah yes i love these i actually um i had one of these a few years ago and lost it so this is perfect thank you oh this is awesome this is great and it's like i don't know the letter j a wooden j to put on your mantle or something and you just have to amp it up so everyone practice because we all get put in that position unless you're one of those people that can't hide it we all know those people too i have no poker face open it and are like just locked just well not locked but just like no i don't know i have no poker face like if i get something i'm just like thanks i try really hard can you tell can you tell when i get i'd probably be able to tell for sure i know you like better than anybody okay there's you've been around why you want to why are you challenging me well because if you can't tell like you've been around me when i've gotten stuff i don't like yeah so you didn't you couldn't tell i'm good i'm actually i do have poker face i'm good i haven't told been able to tell do you know any gifts that come to mind that i haven't liked well i guess we'll just see going forward i might have a better poker face than i think stuff for me no well now i guess we'll never know okay i sent op a message i hope they see it and respond i would love another update on this after the holidays about how you did it how you messed with them a little bit um this is this is a good one this 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to be a priority and cash app treats it that way with security lock cash app requires a successful face id or biometric authentication to access your account it's like your money is protected by your own personal bodyguard even if your phone is lost or lost in the middle of the night or stolen plus if you're about to send money to someone new and cash app notices something looks a bit off or that you might be falling for a scam it will send you a warning before the money is sent to confirm that everything looks right download cash app and spend with peace of mind today download cash app today and make your money work for you cash app is a financial services platform not a bank banking services provided by cash apps bank partners visit cash app.com slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures moving on to this next one that is not as uppity um this one does get a little heavy you guys it does have an update that does contain some mentions of abuse kind of abusive behaviors um so if you can't handle that please skip to the next story this is insane family chaos that is definitely believable so this is coming from a-i-t-a-h titled am i the asshole for not wanting my husband's family to stay with us for the holidays classic comes up a lot for families all over we have a one-bedroom apartment with a seven-month-old space is already so limited my husband's sister and her family are flying across the country to spend christmas with us for 11 days they insisted that they stay with us instead of getting a hotel nope nope of course my husband agrees to this without talking to me when he does ask me about it i explain how it's going to be crowded the noise has to be kept to a minimum because of the baby my son already has trouble sleeping so who knows how it'll be by next month husband is working some days while they're here so he insists that they use my car to go and do stuff while i'm home with the kid the problem i have the most is that when i speak up he immediately says that i'm against his family even though he's always against mine my family hasn't been over to see my son yet because they know it's going to take hotel and car rental fees they don't insist on uprooting my entire routine for 11 days my mom can get me discounts because she works at a hotel but that's still not good enough for them i just think it's rude to insist on sleeping on an air mattress that will take up half of our living room my son will not have a safe place to play i'll have to lock myself away to pump every three to four hours our routines will be shattered i have a feeling their kid will be loud and wake the baby husband said quote don't get mad if sister's kid breaks things he's five i'm going to be mad i'm made to feel like i'm the asshole because i have an opinion the more i think about it the angrier i get am i the asshole yes clearly i mean come on i can't even believe like people get pushed to the point where they even have to ask that question because you know why i mean look at this i know but oh my it's just i i i've outgrown the i'm coming to town i'm gonna sleep on the air mattress thing listen i will sell my car and get a different car if it means i can stay places more comfortably if it's necessary like i that's a big one for me especially when you know you're putting someone out in a way especially with a new mom seven months eight months by that time postpartum with a baby just there's not any single piece of this that makes any sense and i would be so uncomfortable you're going to someone's place yeah and putting them in a position to do that even if they were begging me to stay there it's just easier nicer to not sleep on a air mattress in someone's living room if they have an extra bedroom and bathroom where you don't get in their way i would stay and i'd be out in the mornings i would go other places unless we're doing something together i'm one where i'm like okay i'll stay but i'm i'm gonna be out i'll be out of your way yeah this feels like it's so intrusive there's not even you're not even in the way it's something beyond that you're you're just blocking every i don't even know what to consider it you don't have your space anymore your space is taken over how are they sleeping two grown adults and a five-year-old on a blow-up mattress in the living room where are they changing how's everyone showering oh and by the way wife my sister's gonna take your car yeah your car fuck no your sister can drive your car she can drop your ass off at work and she can drive your car around while you're at work and then she can pick you up like why is your family coming to stay with us for 11 days yeah no kidding inconveniencing me in the biggest most harmful ways i'm getting such red flags from this dude the fact her family hasn't been able to visit i get like finances are really tough for a lot of people and so i understand why her family can't visit but like a husband should be like sending mom and baby to go visit her family then like his family there's no mention of money being an issue and they can afford flights at least for three of them to fly across the country so there's some money there so why is a hotel like why is that such a big consideration and like hey if a hotel is not affordable like i don't know like maybe this year isn't the year to visit when we have a new baby or right hey what does your house look like do you have guest rooms maybe we should actually fly across the country to you guys this what's going on is not okay and there's no respect for her no and the way this line actually really pissed me off too when i speak up he immediately says i'm against his family yeah that feels so manipulative and weaponized and just like toxic well just saving that card to play later always right there's we had a similar we've talked about something similar recently where people will not say anything in the moment when they're really upset and then they'll just take it all right i'm gonna put that in my pocket for later and then the second you say something that's actually wrong that should be addressed they're like yep this remember this hey remember this this problem i had yep i didn't say anything but now that you bring this up i'm gonna bring it up it's like okay that is just so beyond functional there's no communication no there's no teamwork there's no being a partner in any of this just considering all of the factors with the the newborn i don't can you call him a newborn still yeah he's a baby i don't know when they transition out of that but you have a young child you're nursing you have a small place and it's not like you have an extra room don't you think considering all those factors and the duration you would even consider asking the person you live with the person you share this home with it doesn't matter who bought her who owns it she just had the baby if anything she should have more weight when it comes to these decisions she should have more decision-making power it doesn't matter who bought the place or who bought the home it doesn't matter who bought the place or who bought whatever that circumstance is you know it's what's going to make you comfortable what's going to make you comfortable especially because you're nursing and doing all this i know pumping every three to four hours but that is having a partner that's considerate of you he's not considerate of her he doesn't respect her and he's showing a lot of really red flags i mean overall vote on this one there's not a consensus bot on aith but like you i mean clearly he's not the asshole not the asshole this poor woman it's clear she's being gaslit in some regard to like again even come here in question am i the asshole like no no i know there's a comment here that says you should be rethinking this marriage he got zero consideration for you next person responds exactly he is showing all the classic signs of being an abuser isolating her he badmouths her family probably won't even let them into the home cuts her out of the decision making and then he's like oh my god invites his family to stay with them for 11 days during christmas three makes everything her fault when she objects and uses logic she is difficult she hates his family four makes her question her own logic and sanity hence her post here yeah next comment down wanna bet he is around his 30s at least and she is early 20s op does respond to that oof try 40s and mid 30s oh yeah it's come on that's too late for all of us this stuff going on so it feels like the classic i'll marry you we'll have a baby and then i'm gonna change yeah i'm gonna start taking advantage of that situation op does get asked quite a bit about culture like is there a different culture people should be taking into consideration like are we missing something here people specifically ask is op from an indian culture op responds no and then we get an update all right coming nearly a month later okay yeah buckle up you guys can i just say i'm picturing one bathroom and i'm also picturing the fact that there's no reprieve there's no break there's no turn it off you are on 24 7 for 11 days straight including all of the outs and abouts that you guys are all gonna go do and you have to do that and then you have to wait in line for the goddamn bathroom and take no no even when my friends come to town and like maybe this is a sign of me getting old or just like my social battery getting depleted i literally want my friends to like come to town and like let's make plans like you come for a weekend right and let's do dinner and let's do an activity saturday but like also can can you plan stuff that like doesn't involve me so i can go home and like recharge or take a nap like i love when people come out with like friends or another partner yeah like their partner so then it's like okay well let's hang out let's go to dinner let's go to a game but then like you guys can go adventure and do stuff that's right well it's like you can crash right yeah of course you can crash that's why we use me as a hotel that's why we have a room but don't feel obligated no we don't have to hang out 24 7 i love you so so much i want to see you but like you feel free to like adventure on your own yeah like yeah but i don't know is that just me am i an asshole i don't know no okay update trigger warning on this update you guys it does start to get pretty abusive it could be very people dealing with you know verbal abuse and things like that so just a little trigger warning here please just skip ahead to the next story where to even begin unwrapping this shithole i had brought up the issue with his family staying a couple of times after my post i had to google quote how to talk to a narcissist before the approach i said how it would affect the baby and i and how it would affect his family with me having to get up in the middle of the night and how my son needs space for his playpen baby proofing a one-bedroom has proven more difficult than i thought he seemed understanding however wasn't budging on wanting them to stay i just got the old we'll keep analyzing it since i can cancel my hotel reservation a day before check-in i went ahead and booked 10 nights just to lock in a cheap rate i felt more secure having a backup plan in case shit hit the fan at my house on our way to thanksgiving my son kept getting blasted by sunlight while driving i have tried the usual sun shades on the windows a few days ago i got these curtains for the side windows they hang on with magnets so i grabbed them from my car and hung them in my husband's car as he was the one driving us three hours away to his family gathering he kept saying the blinds were blocking his blind spots so i tied them open so he could see but my son could also keep some shade after it's still was a problem my husband asked for them to be removed and proceeded to tell me how i need to quote ask him before i just go and do stuff you want your baby to get fucking sunburned from a car ride like doesn't sound like a two-way street you need to ask before you do stuff like put up a window shade so our baby is like invite your family to stay with us for 11 fucking days that is when i lost my shit i brought up the visit and how he never discussed it with me prior to telling his sister that they could stay of course this causes him to blow up saying that he doesn't need my permission as it is quote his house thought that was coming over and over i'm told to quote shut the fuck up and man up quote if this was your family dot dot dot quote i don't want to be with a bitch cunt wife let me out of that fucking car right now like at that point can you imagine i can i just honestly can't even imagine someone saying this to another person i just can't it just it i can't even fathom it i want to shove a bar of soap in his mouth bitch cunt wife youtube's gonna demonetize me for saying those words in a row like yeah especially twice i remain calm and reiterate that it's my home too and it's about respect that he talks to me first it's not about control it's about respect respect for my son and our routines comfort and safety he then goes on to say how i don't respect him and i just quote turned this around and made it about you quote holidays are classically stressful look at home alone where they have that huge house and it's chaos okay but this isn't a but i would be more comfortable manning up and letting them stay as they wouldn't obscure my routines so i ruined thanksgiving husband stayed at work until he had to come home just to sleep didn't see his son for almost three days i had to text him first quote come and have an adult conversation with me you haven't seen your son in three days to which i get but i'm working no shit i meant after and quote no one wants me around anyways i'm only good for food and money good lord i didn't respond to this needless to say he came home and spent time with his son we had an adult conversation his family staying is not changing he said he already told them yes and doesn't want to now tell them to get a hotel that doesn't matter quote a hotel is way too expensive even at this discount you're talking about it's not going to be fifty dollars lol it actually was i booked 10 nights for 518 total wow i told him this and he just rolled his eyes His sister had texted me personally and asked if they could use my car to do one thing when my husband is working. She said they would rent a car if not. Just the fact that she asked with respect made me say yes to using it. We agreed that if I needed it, they would bring it back. My son and I will be okay. My thoughts? Continue my routines. Do what I need to do. If they can't handle it, they are free to get a hotel. I will not uproot my life for 11 days. It's not about me. It's about my son. He will be taken care of regardless of guests. My question is, should I keep the hotel? I want to have it in case my son and I have to sleep there. If people keep waking my son up, I'm going to have a huge problem, especially if we're trapped. But I also don't want to waste money and never use it. I can't decide. For everyone saying I should get a divorce over this, that's valid. Even more so after this update, girl. I want to give him one more chance to start discussing with me. If he can't respect that, then yeah, it's done. I'm tired of him stepping outside and having these conversations without my input. Wish me luck. You know, I would keep the hotel. I would probably stay there every night. Yeah. Because that sounds really like a little staycation. Yeah. Just, you know, get out of there, have a little break, have some time with your son and get out of the mess. But I don't know. I would say. I would say your husband is only good for food and money. Yeah. I think that's where we're at. Yeah. I think he said it pretty right. And I don't think. Some odd projection. It's, I think it's not a coincidence that he said that because I think, I don't know. I mean, a narcissist would never think this way, but I think somehow maybe a deep subconscious realizes maybe that is all he's good for in this. Yeah. But probably not. There is a lot of Darvo there. There's, I mean, there's so much deflection, accused, victim, reverse offender, like that is all there. Very prevalent with him. Like, I don't know if he's self-aware enough to realize it or if it truly is just like almost like a, like a Freudian slip. It's just like coming out. He doesn't even recognize, but like, yeah, subconscious is maybe another word you can use. But honestly, I'm like, I'm, I'm genuinely like, I'm kind of, I'm kind of scared for her. Like, this is just not a healthy relationship. Someone who will verbally abuse you in such an extreme way. Like, I worry about things escalating. Yeah, it's not right. It's not right. It's not right. It's not healthy. It's not good. I honestly, I would keep the hotel. I mean, $518 for 11 days is incredible. Like, that is, that is amazing. So honestly, like, if you know that, like, you're kind of going to spend this money one way or another, whether it's you sleeping there. Or, like, wasting it. I don't know. Like, for me, if my home is more comfortable and easy for me to maintain my baby's routine, I would go to the sister-in-law because it seems like she has some respect for you. Yes. And I would say, hey, I want to just let you know so you can plan for it, but I want to gift you guys a hotel stay. It's right down the street from our house. Here's the room. There's a pool. Ah! And make it so fun. And just, like. Get them out of your hair. But then, you know, if money's a burden, it's a Christmas gift. Like, it seems like you can afford it because you're considering staying there. So get them out of your house. Like, and if she has a problem with it, then say, oh my God, okay, yeah, no worries. Like, you enjoy the house. You can, you know, build up mattress. All you, all stay there. I just want to make sure the baby gets good sleep. It should be an upgrade for them. It should be. Like, they should see that. If I were going to go stay somewhere and someone's like, yo, I booked you a room, I'd be like, shit, yeah, you did. Let's go, baby. Because the reality is, and the husband, you know, he's going to get all crazy over that. If, you know, if you go to her straight and then he figures it out on the back end, he's going to go ballistic. But in all reality, if you just think about the situation, they can come still spend a bunch of time over at your place, get all of that same quality time. But guess what? They can go to their happy little hotel. Yeah. And you guys can have your. Yeah, well, at least you can have your happy little home. I don't know what his situation is, but. Fucking screwed. That's the second you said that, I'm just instantly worried because the verbal abuse, now it just feels like if you trigger the wrong way, you just don't know what you're going to get. And I think that's the scariest thing that can happen is when all of a sudden, the person you're married to, the person you have a kid with, you look across at them and you literally feel like you don't know them. And that's, yeah. And they're unpredictable. And there's things that. You start to not trust. And that is just a bad sign. That's when it kind of starts to. If you start to feel that way in your relationship of any sort, doesn't even have to be a romantic relationship, that's when you got to really start evaluating like an exit plan or a worst case scenario. You honestly start to have a go bag. I know. And that when you start to think that way, you're not in a team dynamic. You're not like happily. Fully together. No. And I honestly, I think his behavior just is indicative of why he's 40 having his first kid. Like, and I know people are now choosing to have kids later, but like, I don't know. I'm getting obviously some glaring issues. A lot of people are worried about her in the comments. A lot of people are like, don't prepare for guests. Don't buy groceries. Don't cook. Take your son and go stay at the hotel or with family or friends. Yeah. Let your husband host his family without you. Honey, you need to take. Take the baby in the car and go stay at the hotel for the duration of the stay. Let him host. Stay away from that chaos. A lot of people are like, one thing I don't think I've read is that the stress OP is going through will definitely affect her milk supply, which will in turn affect the baby. And like, stress can decrease milk supply. Cortisol can actually be in your breast milk. And if you have extremely high levels of cortisol and that stress hormone, your baby can actually become even fussier. They get stressed? You can pass stress? The cortisol. Yeah. The stress hormone can be in your breast milk. Usually, like, if you're just low stress, like, it's such a small amount. But like, if you're in a high stress situation. So it's like, all around, this is just setting her up for failure. Like, if this were me, I honestly would like reach out to my family and be like, you guys, I'm really struggling. Like, can I come visit for the holidays? And like, I know she's clearly not ready for divorce. Even after that. The car conversation and the horrible things he said to her. And if she's not ready, she's not ready. But I hope she gets there. Because this is just not, not okay. It's getting dark. Not okay. Okay, Justin. You're off. Bye. Next co-host. Next co-host coming in. Okay. Poof. Little, you know, reindeer magic. Poof. Bye. Poof. Poof. Bye. Bye. Bye. episode is brought to you by Nutrafol. I've been dealing with some crazy hair thinning lately, and I was seeing a lot more scalp than I wanted to, which is why I've been taking Nutrafol. 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And a great way to do that is to bundle home and auto with the State Farm personal price plan. Bundling, just another way to save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on ratings plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of money, and cost are based on ratings plans that vary by state. Yeah. I don't know if they, I mean, you do live in a Q neighborhood. I could see them there, but it's like, caroling does feel like a cold weather place thing too feels like a lost art if you ask me it is a lost art sign the petition bring back caroling bring back caroling what are we doing something probably not as bad as what you're gonna read for me no no um yeah there's some there's some bad ones let's go let's get into it let's rapid fire these bad bitches these motherfucker i don't know dude i'm in such a weird headspace today once your vibe is thrown off by something it is difficult to like get your vibe back on track i don't know how to recover a vibe once it goes flat a stale i think when we get raising pains it'll recover your vibe i have to go to the post office though i'm like just like god oh everything is oh so let's get into this first one okay this one's coming from am i the jerk it's titled am i the jerk am i the asshole for calling out my neighbor at our christmas party after she kept hitting on my son i need the ages michaela you're not gonna like the ages oh that's what i was worried about we hosted a christmas party at our house for neighbors and some family friends my 19 year old son was home from college for break one of our neighbors who's probably in her mid-40s started getting really drunk and weird with him started off with a lot of compliments about how grown up he looks then she's touching his arm asking if he has a girlfriend saying stuff like quote if i was 20 years younger while laughing my son looked so uncomfortable but he's being polite because it's our house and our party he kept trying to move away from her but she would follow him around i pulled her aside and said that she needs to stop that she's making my son uncomfortable and i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so sorry she acted like i was crazy and she was just being nice 10 minutes later she's back at it cornered him by the christmas tree asking him to help her hang ornaments on a high branch making comments about his height and build asking if he works out i went over and said loud enough for people nearby to hear quote he's 19 you're in your 40s stop hitting on my son at christmas get her ass she got upset and left crying her husband looked mortified and apologized before following her out i said if a 40 year old man was doing this to someone's 19 year old daughter they would be horrified why is this different am i the asshole well it's not it's not any different it's disgusting either way no and also she already got the warning she already got the like even even if she didn't have the warning she already got the like even if she didn't have the warning she already got the that intent initially it's like well you've been told you're making him uncomfortable he's been visibly trying to get away from you and now you are still doing it so there is no excuse leave him alone yeah you're also you're not even single you're married yeah no when i heard the little bit about the husband at the end i was very surprised i was shocked i was like wait her husband is there and the husband apologized which is interesting so he probably also was like that's kind of weird probably really embarrassed and like how long has this neighbor known him he's 19 now ew probably a while because she even said like you look so grown up now yeah which if that was the only comment that is like a common thing to say to like like a kid that you've like known for a long time yeah like relatives oh my god you look so grown up but clearly like with that sandwiched with all of these other comments it's like no this isn't appropriate really bad touching his arm do you have a girlfriend if i was only 20 years younger everyone can assume what you want to say after that if only i was 20 years younger i'd fuck you now like yeah you know what i mean yeah it's gross it is gross and it it is like interesting how op kind of points out that there's like a little bit of a double standard and i i do think like young boys young men like i don't know you saw it with like justin bieber like how he was just like the opposite of infantilized he was like looked at much older but that happened to his future and i think that's a good thing because i think that's a good thing because at the time like that was kind of the time i know but like like you look at thing happened to selena and miley and like all of that like by adult male interviewers too i know the way we treat young celebrities is not i just oh i saw something the other day where it's like this actress was 13 and she made out with like um a 43 year old and i'm like what the fuck wait for a movie yeah yeah that was happening a lot too they were casting like very young girls to play like interests and it wasn't in the script either wait it wasn't in the script so it was um i don't know if she was she might not have been 13 i'm trying to find the age but it was bill murray he gave scarlett johansson a kiss and it wasn't in the script and he just like kissed her and scarlett was really young i gotta fact check myself um i think she was 16 but bill murray at the time was 52 ew leave her alone get away from her get away from her really just icky but yeah no matter who it's happening to though like someone in their 40s and someone who is a teenager that should not be happening especially if you've known them for a long time and then to just like corner him and like and he doesn't want to cause a scene because it's his parents house and this is like being polite also trying don't want to embarrass anybody but it's like okay you've had your warnings like stop now stop yeah like you're being weird top comment not the asshole true if you reverse the genders most parents would be upset i don't even know why she's questioning it like it's weird it's weird yeah i think i think holiday parties i wish i'd grown up in one place and that that was a place i went back to and that i could people watch with the types of interactions from like all of these randoms that you wouldn't necessarily probably friend yeah like by choice but because you're in close proximity like this you just like have to kind of socialize with a lot of different people for sure but i'm never at like a holiday party with this type of group of people and i kind of wish i could relive that experience seems interesting it's just awkward yeah it's not that fun i think i've been a lot of people probably doing that right now yeah no i um i went to like a holiday party the other night and like love the host but like don't really know everyone else and justin just sat in the corner by the food table and just snacked yeah and we're just like okay how long do you have to like stay and show face show face and have we you know we've kind of talked like have we said enough yeah this one's probably pretty clear cut in the comments yeah comments are like be proud of yourself love what you did don't ever feel ashamed or guilty for sticking up for your son there's a time to be nice which should be most of the time but there's also a time to be maybe not so nice this was a perfect example one warning then here comes mama bear loved it and i bet many of the people attending did too oh they definitely did because who doesn't want a little tea yeah a little holiday drama also i feel like a lot of people probably noticed like this this seems to have not been very subtle so i'm sure everyone was like well yeah that's what you get i hope i hope the neighbor wakes up in the morning and apologizes too yeah i would hope so so okay move on to this next one okay i haven't read this one but based on the title i feel like it's gonna be good okay i don't know i'm sorry in advance if it sucks i don't know it's a day old at the time that i found it coming from aith i don't want to refresh yet in case it's gone and it's titled am i the asshole for canceling christmas after my brother-in-law threw a fit over me in ex-sister-in-law to thanksgiving and christmas wait this is the plot of a hallmark movie that's out right now is it really i mean yes yeah with i don't remember yeah okay let's let's get into this i 38 female married to my 44 male husband for 15 years my husband is one of six sons his mother passed a few years after the youngest was born and his father passed about nine years ago husband is the second there's the oldest brother-in-law 47 with sister-in-law and two kids hubby and i three kids currently pregnant with our fourth brother-in-law who's number three 42 widowed with one kid brother-in-law 4 39 with girlfriend brother-in-law 5 37 ex-sister-in-law with two kids and a single brother-in-law number six 30 34 okay that's what he says i retained all that p-a-g-w hubs and i are very well off we both have very lucrative jobs and have made investments that has allowed us to have a very comfortable life we have a big old house and we are often the family that hosts the holidays we absolutely love it we spend all week cleaning prepping for the family to arrive and they typically stay with us tuesday through saturday and they typically stay with us tuesday through saturday and they typically stay with us tuesday for Thanksgiving and then come back the 21st through the 26th for Christmas. Now brother-in-law 37 has been separated, soon divorcing ex-sister-in-law for four and a half years. The past few years since brother-in-law 39 has separated from ex-sister-in-law, he has brought numerous girlfriends to these holidays. Ex-sister-in-law has sometimes come and they are pretty cordial. However, recently, this past Thanksgiving, my brother-in-law 37 has been expressing that he doesn't want to see her, nor does he feel like he should be accosted by his ex-wife at the holidays. He's saying that regardless if he has kids or not, he should be able to come and she shouldn't be able to come anymore. Why the sudden shift or change, you might wonder? Well, this year, ex-sister-in-law has a serious boyfriend who came with his daughter. I should note, we welcome and open our home to all of our family's significant others. The kids and cousins have all met this daughter because we tend to see ex-sister-in-law a lot outside of the holidays, as we do a lot of cousin hangs, and she's the one who always brings the kids. I am not too keen on brother-in-law. To me, he's a scumbag, but everyone tolerates him because he's family, whatever. In this instance, I stood firm and said that ex-sister-in-law is always welcome at our house. Another reason that I especially need ex-sister-in-law, is that no one else at these holidays can cook. During the holidays, it's basically me and ex-sister-in-law and my mom. She's my sous chef. We cook and plan the meals together for 20 plus people, as well as desserts and activities. Other and sister-in-law, who cannot cook, but we love her, and she usually hangs out in the kitchen chopping up veggies or pouring wine, which is cool because company counts when you're cooking. So I said, I think it's absurd that you want me to host the holidays by myself and cater to everyone. I said, I think it's absurd that you want me to host the holidays by myself and cater to everyone. Because you feel that ex-sister-in-law shouldn't be there, because now she has a new plan. And as I mentioned, I'm pregnant. Just found out a few weeks before Thanksgiving, so I needed the help. I told him to fuck off. Thanksgiving comes and goes, and brother-in-law is a sour ass hat the whole time, but everyone had a really good time. Now Christmas is coming up, and the same issue is happening. Brother-in-laws are divided. Hubs, brother-in-law 47, and brother-in-law 42 are on my slash the ex-sister-in-law side, and the others are saying that I should stop inviting ex-sister-in-law because she is no longer family. I'm like, what the fuck? That is so freaking cruel. Also, she's my friend, and y'all are out of your damn mind if you feel like I'm going to shoulder the holidays by myself, especially because none of the brother-in-laws actually help. We don't expect slash want anyone to contribute, especially if they can't cook, but that doesn't change the physical toll that it takes to make all this stuff happen. My husband, love him, said that this is too much stress for me, and we should just cancel and do something else. So we immediately booked a vacation. I then sent a message in the family group chat and notified everyone that we will not be doing Christmas this year, and we will mail all the kids their gifts. Wow. Now? Now, everyone is up in arms saying that I shouldn't cancel and that not having one person there isn't enough to not do the holidays, blah, blah, blah. My husband kind of chewed them out, saying that ex-sister-in-law is not some stranger or random person. She's been a part of the family for 20 years. Oh my God. Her and brother-in-law, 37, started dating in high school. He also said that they don't get to take all the benefits of the holidays, not help, and then demand that I do things alone because brother-in-law, 37, is in his feelings that she moved on. I told them they could all choke on candy canes, and if they wanted to have Christmas, they could host, plan, cook, and create the magic with the people they deemed family. So yeah, am I the asshole on this one? Opie is not the asshole. This was a ride. Oh my God. Opie has been doing everything for everyone this whole time. I feel like, I could be more conflicted on this one if, you know, brother-in-law and ex-sister-in-law didn't have kids together. Like, I can understand saying, hey, like, this is my ex. Yeah. Can we please stop inviting her to the family events? I'm trying to move on. She's moving on. It's hard for me. Yeah. Like, that isn't the craziest thing in the world to me. No. But I think, you know, her being in their lives for 20 years, her always helping out, them having kids together, her probably wanting to be there, because that's where, you know, they can all be together. The kids also probably love that these events, they get to have their mom and dad there together. Oh, this is amazing. And like, the whole family comes together. I mean, 20 plus people under one roof. Like, that is so, so fun to have as young, like, cousins and siblings and all that. Like, it is a village. Like, this is ideal. And why should it end? Because, like, they got divorced. I get, like, if things are really bad and toxic and you can't be around each other. But, like, again, like, as you said, like, she was a part of everyone's life for 20 years. Yeah. And it sounds like they have been cohabitating at these events and he has been fine with it and he's brought girlfriends. But now it's just this year because she has a boyfriend. Now there's a problem. Yeah. But what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Yeah. Same thing. You've been bringing girlfriends all these years. She hasn't had anyone. That's why it's been okay. Because you get to show up. You get to show off and flaunt it in front of her face. Now you're single. No girlfriend this year. She's got someone she cares about. Genuinely. Yeah. And now you're going to pout and cry and whine. Grow up. And it's probably not, like, easy for the ex-sister-in-law, too. It's, like, already maybe a little bit awkward of, like, okay, I'm the ex coming and I can tell that, like, there are some people who don't want me here anymore. I wish that she could have a similar, like, family Christmas and Thanksgiving event. On her side. But, again, I think that this is, like, a net positive situation that everyone's together. And I feel like he just needs to suck it up. And also, all of these people need to be offering to help. Oh, my God. Why is nobody helping? I can't imagine. This wouldn't fly. No, I cannot imagine having, like, 20 people coming to an event and only three are helping with the food. Like, at least be bringing stuff. Like, every single couple should be bringing something with them. It should not be up to these three people. No. And if you can't cook. Yeah. Either watch a YouTube video or buy it. Yeah. Like, you can buy really good pre-made things that, like, taste like homemade stuff. And there must be at least one thing that you can cook. Like, give me a break. I can't cook. Like, try. Everyone else is doing it for you. Literally. Justin just made bread yesterday for a Hanukkah party we went to. Like, he made the challah because I was recording. I couldn't get back in time. And he had to start the dough. Otherwise, I would not be done. He's great at bread. He just crushed it. Crushed it. I came back, did the braid, did a little too tight. Not my best challah, if you're following my bread journey. But it tasted amazing. And he did so good. Like, is he a little baker? He's not, you know, Martha Stewart or Betty Crocker. But he's willing to mix those things together and put it in the oven. I mean, it's just the effort. Yeah. It's like, none of them can cook. But like, as she said, the sister-in-law that can't cook comes in, chops a few veggies, pours the wine. Like, that's still appreciated. Yeah. Where's everyone else? That's just so many people to be putting it all. Like, anytime we do Thanksgiving dinners now, like, I do bread and my mom does the pies. And like, someone else does, you know, we come together and we all try to help each other and make it work. 20 people. God. Yeah. No, not the asshole. I think this is going to be a really good learning lesson for all of them. Yeah. This is a reality hitting the moment. Don't bite the hand that feeds you. Literally feeding you. And like, this is hosting. I mean, this is a big fucking house. I want to see a picture of their house. Send me the Zillow link. Yeah. Like, you can fit 20 people in your house. She did say that they both are very well off. They both have very lucrative jobs. Can I come? We'd love to be there. Can I come? We'll help. I'll make bread. We'll actually help. I'll make all the bread. I'll make it all. Yeah, Mikayla can make anything. Her focaccia. Woo. Woo. Thank you, Mikayla. Sourdough with her little brie and pepper jam. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you put a little. Send us the invite. You'll put a little onion in there. That was good, too. This is a PSA for everyone. I don't know if I've talked about this yet, but if you eat too many raw red onions, you will get a headache and massive anxiety. Be careful. Wait, what do you mean? Exactly what I said. I ate a handful of raw onion slivers. Yeah. And I thought I was going to die. It triggered a massive headache and a shit ton of anxiety. Wait, are you sure that that's what did it? Did you look into it? Yep, I Googled. Oh, my God. I Googled and it said it's pretty common. I didn't know that that was happening. Be careful with those red onions, everyone. They are dangerous. Well, and I will say, if you chop up some red onions, that stays in your fingernails for quite some time. I was scrubbing. Don't touch your eyeballs. I was freaking scrubbing. Don't touch them. Yeah, onions and what else stays on your fingers after you do it? Probably garlic or something. Sugar snap peas. There was something else I made, though. other day. It'll come back to me. we do have some comments from op oh good yeah i'm very curious about this family i i'm i'm interested to know more i want to be adopted adopt me mail me my presence but only by her not anyone else it sounds like this one this one so someone goes and it's like up at the top as one of the best comments right now one i am coming so many people will never notice i'll pass myself off as someone's significant other's grandmother i cook and i'll bring a raw apple cake chocolate yule log and orange chocolate chips yeah our reaction as well we're down let us let us come two your brother-in-law is ron tell him that he can stay home and three your former sister-in-law is lovely she comes um someone else responds i am also coming i'm someone's crazy hippie auntie who's stranded here for the holidays i'm taking charge of the turkey that i will bring i roast a mean bird op responds don't tempt me with a good time i think the holidays are incomplete without a crazy hippie auntie the thread goes on and someone does eventually ask like how did this start has this been an issue before people are sharing recipes in the comments but op says we have literally been hosting and the both of them have been coming to thanksgiving and christmas since they split up brother in law brings whoever he's dating and it's never been an issue he just broke up with his latest girlfriend ex-sister-in-law also tends to have the kids more we welcome everyone but also like i mentioned no one else helps we're talking cooking for days to feed everyone and overall making the holidays festive and again i'm pregnant i'm not a mule and again she's been a part of the family for 20 years that doesn't just go away i think it's more that he's hurt that she has a partner for the first time it sounds like a whiny little bitch yeah it's been like five years that he's been actively dating and she hasn't until now and all of a sudden it's like oh we got problems now i'm coming off a little hot today no it was it was it was whiny little bitch and also of course if you're like already doing so much work for such a huge event and then it's like here's one person who does nothing and complains and like adds negativity to the time here's someone who's lovely and is one of the no i know well and op also adds this like because someone was like why doesn't she spend the holidays with her family yeah and op's like she doesn't have any actually her family is in another country and she's never been close she lived with a distant cousin when she came to this country my husband's family literally took her in she is even close with a lot of their cousins yeah so i think it's like it's really tough and like i'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing but i'm so glad with this one that hubby is on board with her yeah i'm so glad it's not her against all of them and like he's advocating for her and like i guess he's advocating for the sister-in-law the most actually she's been like a sister to them she's literally been at all of our kids births even staying with us while i was postpartum she did the same for our other sister-in-law she's even friends with my sisters she asked for the divorce because he was cheating on her i think he really thought she would never leave him but she's been ingrained in the family since they were both 17. it's it sounds like honestly she tries really hard to be a part of this family because she doesn't have like she's constantly showing up and putting in all of this effort and taking on the jobs that other people don't want to do which is like super understandable because it's like she's you know she wants to stay a part of it she's never like had this type of family dynamic before and i don't think it's fair for her to be booted because they got divorced because he was cheating on her yeah because of him like i think that's something that's really hard for me with family dynamics and like navigating family dynamics and it's it's something justin and i have kind of had issues with because like a lot of people in his family got divorced and like he he has still wanted to like try to maintain relationships with some people but feels that he can't and he feels that he's kind of walking a fine line and that's that's like him that's his feeling like i don't put any pressure i'm like whatever you want to do you do but it just makes things difficult and awkward sometimes and it is kind of a thing where it's like when someone gets married and that's your uncle and you've known them for 30 years as your uncle and all of a sudden they get divorced it's like it's hard to just be like well that's not my uncle anymore and i don't know him yeah and that's like what is wanted i think by some of the other people in that situation yeah it's almost like pick a side and for sure and there's a lot of mess to it totally there's a lot of like just shitty stuff that you know obviously people are hurt by and like everyone's entitled to their feelings but it's really hard to just kind of expect everyone to forget that relationship that's been had and yeah i think a lot of families go through this like no one in my family's gotten divorced a lot of people just didn't get married and i always grew up like me and my siblings we've always had like multiple Christmas Eve we would all go to our bio dad's houses and then Christmas day we spent together at my mom's so that was like the normal for us we never had a Christmas where everyone came together yeah but if that's all you've ever known for the past 20 some odd years why should that change like why can't you ex-husband be mature to realize you messed up yeah and i think that's really really important what you're saying of like oh all of a sudden now i'm not supposed to see this you know the ex-sister-in-law has been at the births of all of these children she's been there she's been taking care of them she's been taking care of you know the parents in those situations too so it's like yeah that that does become your family and that doesn't just go away yeah because the brother-in-law cheated on her it's tough she's still been there for all of these like huge moments yeah that are family moments i mean i got chills when you were like she took care of all of them postpartum and took care of their babies like it she has been so much such a big part of this village yeah and they're friends yeah they're friends now it would be like you can't be friends with her because we're getting divorced and it's her holiday party it's her house yeah she's hosting yeah she's doing everything either come and if you don't like it then don't fucking come yeah get get out of here this is a gift it would be harder as a gift harder for the ex-sister-in-law to be showing up when it's like oh i have to show up now and he have to make nice with him so she's been putting up with it he can too she's not the one who did something no it's crazy the fact he yeah it's always so crazy to me it's like the fact you cheated on her yeah and then you immediately like had all these other girlfriends and she was fine showing up and being there and making food for you guys too making food for you and those girlfriends dude i would have spit in his potatoes like what like the strength she has to not be catty petty and just still just participate in this family and like love i don't know it's just like it's baffling to me and then she gets one boyfriend and he's crashing out yeah what did you think was gonna happen many such cases though i do feel like when someone's the cheater it's like oh as soon as the other person does anything about moving on it all comes crashing down on their heads i know does anyone in the comments think op is the asshole no okay no everyone is like firmly firmly on op's side yeah we do get a little bit more insight about brother-in-law um op says this honestly he's so obnoxious and always wants to be the center of attention he drinks too much and thinks that he's god's gift to ladies he is attractive but he has such a shitty attitude last christmas we got all of the kids bikes and he hopped on his oldest son's bike to show the kids how he could do cool tricks and ended up running into the stairs and getting the bike wheel stuck his son was so sad and he didn't even get to be in the car he was like oh my god i'm so sorry i'm so sorry i'm so the first one to ride it we got him another bike ironically enough it was my husband and ex-sister-in-law new boyfriend who taught him how to ride it whenever he's at events people are always apprehensive because he always steals the spotlight it's exhausting but when he's decent he's actually not that bad to be around it's just more often than not that he's that person this is such a glimpse into like how some people are born into such a lucky position with family and other people have to work so hard to like build something like that because he can just be obnoxious he can break things he can be drunk and annoying and he's still a part of the family until still have that community but this ex-sister-in-law like she's always showing up she's cooking for everybody she's teaching people the kids how to ride the bikes and like she could be exiled just for getting a boyfriend and that really is so sad i know that double standard almost and it's like well he's blood but honestly chosen family is a lot of times it has so much more weight because you're choosing to love that person you're you're choosing to like take them under your wing and like make them family so it's she is chosen family at this point she is family at this point and his stupid decisions and them separating shouldn't impact her place within this family there's one last comment here i'll read op says she was at the birth of all my children and every time one of them were born she would stay with me for weeks to help postpartum she would be homeschooling her kids and helping with mine my husband said that he would own his own brother before he ever disowned her my heart couldn't allow for me to ice her out I just don't understand that she's such a sweet person I'm not saying she's perfect but she's really so so kind yeah yeah that's family that's family that's family not the asshole enjoy your vacation this year and maybe circle back next year once people have learned their lessons yeah and seen hey this is the glue we're not gonna yeah disrupt this she's like largely the reason they get to have such a close fit she's the one like putting these events together and making that magic happen she's yeah big part of it a really big part of it yeah I mean op op for sure yeah but like even sister-in-law yeah like they're they're kind of a little dynamic duo by the sounds yeah I get why they why they're you know not attracted to each other what's the word why they like each other they're super connected they're attracted they are like yeah they're similar platonic soulmates no I I really like it there's a lot of comments here though that are really good I mean people are sharing their recipes um someone says okay I'm also coming I'm bringing dunk cakes it's an upside down spice cake with the fruit layer being raisin states apricots and figs that have been soaked in brandy for two day two days one bite and you're painting the ass brother-in-law will be passed out on the floor problem solved and they give their whole recipe this is so funny because on a patreon episode recently you and I were just talking about how we would love to be able to put together a recipe book yes of all the two what takes listeners like family recipes yes like oh that I I actually tweeted that once asking for people's like favorite family recipe from like many generations and I got like so many good recipes from that because like yeah you can go to the online cookbooks and like those can be amazing but there's something about like everyone's favorite family recipe is so much more special so special and usually the family ones that have been around for a couple years are so so much better than anything you'll find because they've been tried and tested and oh this one not as sweet let's add a little more sugar next time so you'll see like lines crossed out and then it goes from like half cup sugar to like three-fourths cup sugar and it's just like I love a story so I really really really do want to put that together so if you're listening to this and you're like I have a family recipe for you I'm going to put that together so if you're like I have a family recipe I'd love to have included and you have a really good story behind it like I want people's stories too that's really nice about where these recipes came from like this was my grandma's recipe and she fled Europe and blah blah blah like I would love the story and maybe I don't know like a memory behind it but it's gonna be happening over on Patreon I will post like on the free tier so like if you can't afford Patreon or just like aren't interested in the bonus content like come over you can still participate and I think it'd be so so cool to put a Too Hot Takes recipe book together yeah especially for the holidays it's so perfect be so good yeah it'd probably be done by the next holidays right it's gonna take a little while to get through everything but maybe maybe spring maybe we cannot procrastinate maybe we can get on it quick but yeah I think it'd be really really good so chime in with a family recipe I would I'd really love that yeah when are you gonna put in I feel like our biggest family recipe is the chocolate pie chocolate pie I feel like our biggest family recipe is the chocolate pie my dad's grandma made oh and that's the one that I told you handwritten yeah on the cake tier I love that I'm so excited to hear what your mom thinks about these stories Michaela's mom listens you guys and then she'll call me about it yeah she had a she had a hot take on that uh cookbook story I know we've had a few cookbook stories recently I know was she worried about our take was she no no she agreed with us okay because was she worried initially when we were kind of slow to get there no I think she's always on our side I think she's always on our side I think she's always on our sides that's why I love her thank you so much for coming on for these holiday stories happy holiday I love it I love it too hot takes holiday let's go happy holidays guys on to the next one this episode is brought to you by Truvia a not so hot take sweeteners that taste great make life easier like Truvia allulose plus stevia sweetener and monk fruit sweetener it tastes like sugar with zero calories per serving and no aftertaste it's perfect for beverages baking and cooking if you're looking for a better way to enjoy sweetness with zero calories per serving you really need to try Truvia allulose plus stevia sweetener and monk fruit sweetener available online and nationwide at Kroger Albertsons Safeway and your favorite local grocery retailer this episode is brought to you by Vinted season is changing time to clean out that closet and maybe make some extra money in the process Vinted is a second-hand marketplace app where you can sell your clothes you no longer wear and get more value out of your wardrobe it's super simple to use and with no selling fees so you keep what you earn give your clothes a second life with Vinted download the Vinted app for free to start listing with no seller fees okay we got lower in here coming in with uh some more holiday hot takes huh I guess yeah you're you are wearing a blanket that looks like my shirt yes I'm like okay here we go I cannot stop wearing my shirt buying these rugby shirts on ebay Nordstrom rack I'm obsessed they're cute you know the the boxers that you got us for your wedding I wear those to bed all the time they're honestly the best boxers they really are because they're boxers made for girls they're from um I think I got them from like American Eagle and they're just so comfy okay here we go hopping into some more holiday stories um this one I've been saving for you because you have co-workers you work in like more of a traditional setting these days and so I figured this would be a good one for you and everyone's been asking for more work stories gonna have a work theme coming at you very soon so if there's any stories you want to see send me a message drop the link in the comments but this one I'm nervous this is coming from AITAH and it's titled would I be the asshole if I tell my co-worker he can't participate in secret santa due to his conditions okay so I'm hosting a secret santa at work it's an employee-run event no managers involved and I've been the one to host it for the past few years I made up some questionnaire slips sent out an email and started handing out slips to those that wanted to participate one of my co-workers we'll call him Trey who I actually really get along with can be dot dot difficult at times and has chosen my hosted event as one of those times for some reason anyways here's how it went down I hand him a slip since he participated last year and I assumed he would want to play again he took the slip from me and then asked me can I buy someone a gift and not get one I told him no it doesn't work like that someone is going to draw his name and they're gonna want to get him a gift he told me to just put in someone's name who doesn't want to play and I said they don't want to play though so I'm not going to do that you either play or you don't there's no in between this just makes sense in my head but he kept arguing with me saying he really doesn't want any gifts and he doesn't need any more clutter in his house but he still wants to buy a gift for someone put it towards a donation another co-worker overheard our conversation and kind of called me out for it saying quote damn just let Trey give someone a gift and put someone's name in at random someone gets an unexpected gift and Trey doesn't have to receive one I really hate the idea of this but I told Trey that I would think about it that just makes no sense to me I'm not going to put a random person's name into that hat and I'm not going to start asking around who wants to get a gift but doesn't want to buy one I feel bad because I want Trey to be able to play and participate with us but I don't like getting pushed into changing rules and making exceptions for people in my head the way I set it up is the way the game is played you either play or you don't am I wrong though should I let him donate his gift to someone else well okay actually I said put it towards a donation but I just realized that kind of takes away from the game because the idea is someone else might also like to like buy something specific for Trey yeah so that's kind of like the fun of secret Santa is like not only getting a gift but like thoughtfully picking something for someone yeah so I actually understand where OP is coming from but what I do think is that Trey could also if he has a lot of clutter and he doesn't want the gift then go and donate the gift literally I don't know why both of them are being so obstinate exactly over something so simple simple and dumb yeah like exactly genuinely like you're creating like a ruckus in your office $15 gifts like it's it's not it's for fun so like let let it be fun yeah it's not it shouldn't be that serious no or like don't do secret Santa do like a white elephant dice game instead people that want to play bring a gift and then like Trey could walk away from the gift you know at the end because it's not so like geared towards people specifically yeah exactly you're just buying something right and then whatever is left at the end that people don't want gets donated yeah like that's another way to do it where it's not as like targeted then but it is kind of like a I get where Trey's at because it's like I think a lot of us are like, no, I want I want nice things or, you know, my. family is notorious for like the dice game and we used to do dollar store dice game because like people didn't want to spend money yeah but then at the end you're left with like a can opener yeah and a box of crayons that aren't crayola and don't really write that well yeah and like just stuff you wouldn't need so then we upped it to like i think it's now our limit is 30 but now people are buying like they're buying things from like tj maxx that original price is 30 but cost them 15 and you can tell they're 15 things because that's like it's a scam they were never meant to be 30 they were always supposed to be 15 yeah so it's so funny i hate the injustice of a dice game i actually can't you really do every year i get stuck in a bad dice game and so this year i just said i'm not playing but that's why it's this is so funny because it's like a full circle because you're like why are they taking it so seriously it's just for fun and now you're like i'm taking not take this injustice no i just think it's not that serious if you don't want something don't play your office secret santa instead donate yeah or just like buy a gift for somebody i don't i don't know i don't know go do um i don't know there's so weird thing yeah there's so many ways to get involved and like by the time you're hearing this episode it'll be too late for this year also what if someone gets you a gift that you really like i know maybe they noticed something you needed around the office maybe you said you were cold all the time so they're gonna buy you a nice little sweater yeah i don't know but there's so many ways to like give someone a gift and have it be meaningful there's operation santa that usps does and there i think he just probably wants to be a part of the game and wants to like and wants to be included and wants to wants to give somebody a gift i think that's where he's at like more so than just like wanting so badly to like buy a gift and like give it somewhere i think he wants to be like included you know then his name gets put in and at the end of the day he can donate his gift exactly there you go trey exactly there you go trey exactly come on yeah both of these people why are they being so weird top comment why don't you recommend that trey ask for a donation to a charity for his gift he could write down that he doesn't need anything and ask for a modest contribution made to a list of charities that was my first thought right remember but at the same time i do understand like somebody might be like well i don't want to be told what to get somebody like i i want to play secret santa and do my little present hunting i want to buy a santa face like i want like you know what i mean so i'm like i if somebody told the person what to get them it kind of takes away from the game as well true and someone does say here like someone needs to talk to trey some people don't realize how difficult they make things for others i'm assuming you are doing this on top of your actual job him adding ridiculous caveats to make your voluntary job harder instead of just thinking of something he could do tells me a lot about his personality and that co-worker that overheard has even less of a role to play in the game i think that's a good point i think that's a good point of a sense than trey another co-worker saying damn just let trey give a gift to someone and put someone else's name in at random someone gets an unexpected gift and trey doesn't have to receive one like isn't that exactly the issue trey is having he doesn't want a gift and so the co-worker's brilliant solution is to gift someone else a gift they don't want also what if there's 20 other people in the office and now someone who didn't contribute to secret santa randomly gets a gift and the other 19 people are upset i didn't get a gift i don't think i didn't get a gift i don't think people if they do that's oh but morgan like they can't like they people are crazy but maybe maybe they are crazy but like you need to when you're in a setting like that in work like you you need to kind of tame your crazy you know lauren i've gotten people people have been like pissed off when i was in doing ot people are pissed that they came to the company lunch potluck late and didn't get a cupcake and they actually like stormed out wow people are nuts people at lululemon got pissed and pouted when they didn't get assigned to the pant wall i don't know what that means it was the best job in the store um yeah because everyone wants their pants that makes sense it's all adding up um ah checks out yeah you know i mean yeah you might be right but at the same time that would be kind of crazy like i think we're all adults we don't have to be like that inclusive like we should be inclusive but like if we decide to give somebody a gift and they don't like it like if we decide to give somebody a random gift who didn't ask for a gift and then like there's 19 other people being like where's my gift it's like dude we don't have to be that like inclusive we're getting a little too crazy with it yeah like i'm sorry you guys just need to like maintain your feelings like that well that's the thing for trey it's like trey participate or don't yeah exactly like if you want again if you want to feel good for doing something then go donate your money yeah exactly do angel tree exactly it's actually really fun it's a great time or just like yeah exactly like shut up like if you like go and give your gift to somebody else and just be like give it to somebody who is playing the game and give them an extra bonus gift they'll probably love it there you go there you go trey they're the winner of of the the game they'll be so happy there you go and then other people might feel left out but we don't have to be that inclusive we can sometimes give one person a extra little thing to make their day i like it we do get an update okay let's do it hey guys this issue has been resolved you can see some of my replies for the full story in short i've asked him to handle the logistics of his game and i've asked him to and i'm going to let him play the post is still getting some traction i was going to ask the mods to close it but i really enjoy reading about people's work secret santa experiences so keep the stories coming i'd like to say a few things and some points that keep getting made one just let him play and don't put his name in and then just one person won't have to buy a gift it takes the fun out of the game for most people like we saw with trey pretty much everyone wants to buy a gift for someone that's why they play getting gifts is always fun too of course but we all love to buy gifts for people and i'm not going to take that away from someone yeah two i pressured him into participating when he didn't want to that's goofy no i'm not even gonna read that one three have a raffle for whatever gift he gets my response to be frank i just really don't want to set this up yeah i was pressured into doing the secret santa by my co-workers again because i've done it in the past and no one else will really organize it but i'm extremely busy at work right now and i have so many issues last year with managers getting involved i didn't really want to have to do it again before you all say i shouldn't have done it again i'll explain myself a little for one started as an alternative to an absolute terrible job our company does for their christmas gifts it ends up being a lottery every year with some people getting huge flat screens and others getting a dog bowl we started doing secret santa as our own way of taking control and making things fair and fun and also being able to further bond with each other it's a small company we're all pretty close especially us hourly folks two the company is shutting down on december 31st and this is a way for us to kind of go out on a high note in regards to our friendship and work relationships some of us may never see each other again it's been a great bonding experience for us in the past so i figured we should do it one last time while we can well i've rambled on long enough thanks for listening everyone you're welcome yeah op has another comment basically i told him that he could choose to find someone to put in his place or write down to donate to a charity in his name he is thinking about putting another of our co-workers kids down for fun i'm going to let he gets it figured out on his own there we go there you go trey there we go everyone wasn't that hard was it come on this episode is brought to you by credit karma breathe in now breathe out you feel that that's the calm of having intuit credit karma in your corner if you're trying to get your life together in this crazy world credit karma is a great place to start with the money stuff your credit score isn't just a number it can unlock better rates options and real savings so whether you're moving leasing a car or upgrading your cards it feels good knowing your credit is working for you when you start to feel like there's too much on your plate you can count on credit karma for less craziness and more credit this episode is brought to you by revolve if you're looking at your closet right now thinking no none of this is working just go to revolve i love that they have the brands i actually want there's always something new and i can order a few options because the shipping is fast and the are easy go to revolve.com slash tht to shop my faves and use code tht for 15 off your first order offer available for a limited time so don't miss out that was fun that was good next one well let's see if it's just as fun cute little petty problems love it this one is coming from am i the asshole 16 days old titled am i the asshole for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable christmas present i have a friend who i'll be calling harry harry and i have known each other for over a decade we're in our early 30s he was a part of my own wedding party and 99 times out of 100 he's an all-around great guy harry has been dating his girlfriend for around four years she's an absolute diamond and brings out all of the best qualities in him a couple of weeks ago harry confided in me that he was planning to propose to his partner over christmas she's very family focused and he is setting it up so his parents unexpectedly visit them they're doing christmas with her family this year early in the morning and he will propose during present opening in front of his and her parents and her siblings and their partners and kids when chatting about arrangements a couple of days ago harry made a throwaway comment about the engagement saving him some time in relation to the rest of his christmas shopping i asked him what he meant said that since he was proposing, he hadn't planned to get his partner any else for Christmas. I said that the two were not mutually exclusive. When I got engaged, albeit not at Christmas, my husband still got me a birthday present the following month. Harry raised that the ring was costing him more than several usual Christmas and birthday presents combined, which is true, but it is not the case that he is scraping together every last penny to buy it and there is absolutely money to spare for a couple of gifts that he would usually get his partner. I also pointed out that since he is hoping to surprise her with the proposal, that it would become quite obvious that something was afoot if there were no presents for her from him under the tree. We went back and forth for a while, with Harry continuing to take the stance that getting engaged is definitely a gift. I said that it was all well and good, but that his girlfriend will absolutely have bought him presents. And that he will both appreciate and use, and that an engagement is in no way the same kind of exchange in that sense. Additionally, while his partner is in no way materialistic, she is someone who appreciates the give and take of mutual present exchanges like Christmas, white elephants, etc. We didn't have a major fight or anything like that about this, but Harry said that he's probably not going to share more about the engagement with me because I have differing views. I don't want to be a stubborn old fool on something I'm clearly wrong about, so I would appreciate the view of internet strangers on this. Well, well, first of all, it's not necessarily Opie's place. It's kind of their relationship and whatever he decides to do, he's going to decide to do. I think it's totally fine if you're trying to give helpful hints and clues to what would make, you know, his partner's life better. But, like, I don't think you need to really, like, get in a fight over this and lose sleep over it because it's kind of. What do you think? I mean, you're the gift person, though, so, like, you're probably like, no, no, no, like, this guy shall not move forward with a proposal unless he also has Christmas gifts. Um, I don't know because I understand where he's coming from, where, like, okay, this engagement ring was a lot of money, but at the same time, like, he will also get. get a ring eventually that will probably cost a decent amount of money, so it balances it out. And, like, I think I just kind of have an issue with, like, oh, well, this proposal is such a gift to her. You're getting engaged. It's about both of you. Yeah, you're the one asking and giving her this ring, and so maybe in this relationship, their engagement is, you know, more for her. The proposal is more for her, but I still think it is about both of you because an engagement leads to your marriage. No, but the ring is also very expensive. Like, yeah, it is. Like, yeah, I feel like women are not. Typically. Yeah, women are typically not expected to pay as much for the ring for their partner than. Jocelyn's ring costs more than mine. Right, but, like, that's not super common, though. You know what I mean? Like, a lot of times, like, people, like, I don't know. Like, I had an ex who was, like, adamant about wanting one day to get me a ring that was, like, $30,000 or $40,000, and I was like, absolutely not. That's so crazy. I was like, I wouldn't accept that even if that was, like, affordable for you at the time. I would just feel like I would rather have that money go to so many other things. But anyway, my point is, is that, like, a lot of people, like, spend a ton of money on these rings, and so I don't know what he's working with, but OP did mention, like, there's money to spare. So I do think that. I do think it would be, you know, if you're going to propose to somebody, like, a lot of people propose a random time throughout the year, and. And then they also still. They're not like, oh, I'm not going to give you Christmas presents this year because I proposed. But then again, maybe some couples do that, you know? Maybe that was something that, like, they agreed upon. Like, you want the best ring. Would you be okay without having, like, presents for, like, a year because I'm going to have to save up all that money to get an extra nice ring? I don't know. Maybe that is something that they. I don't know. I. If someone proposed to you on Christmas, would you be okay not getting anything else? I'm not, like, a. I'm not a really big gift person. So I. Yes. I love presents. But that's. But I know that that's. That. For someone like you, like, that's your love language. Like, it feels so thoughtful. And I just. I don't know. That's, like, not really my. Yeah. thing. So I. I think I would be happier if they gave me a gift on top of it because I like opening presents. I think it's fun to unwrap stuff. So even if it was something small, I would just, like. A little. Yeah, a little something. Yeah. Like, just, you know, like, maybe, like, a. A face. My favorite face mask or something. Like, at-home face mask. Like. Yeah. Just fun things to unwrap. I like that. Yeah. But I wouldn't be too hung up on the idea of getting, like, me another nice gift. I also think. I've. I've read this once, and. Oh, I know where you're going with this. Yeah. Legally? And I. Yeah. And I don't know. It's true. Okay. It is true. But if you propose to people on a holiday or their birthday, it's looked at as a gift. So if you guys get a divorce, then. And they get to keep the ring. Because it was a gift. Whereas in a lot of states, they would have to return the ring if you get a divorce. Or if you just call off the wedding, I should say. Call off the engagement. Yeah. Because once you get. As we talked about in the last episode we recorded in Patreon, prenups, obviously, you can make them whatever you want to. But, like, if you're just going off of, like, an engagement. Community property. Yes. And you end the wedding. So. So at that token, it actually is a very nice gift. I know. I think. I think maybe this is where it boils down to, I don't think you should propose on holidays. I don't think you should propose on moments that are just meant to be a holiday or about that other person, like a graduation. But, like, let the holiday be the holiday. Because then now every Christmas, every Christmas, it's like, oh, we got engaged on Christmas. Oh, we got engaged on Christmas. Yeah. But people don't really. They kind of. It's more of, like, an acknowledgement rather than a whole celebration, how people do with their anniversaries are usually their wedding date. So I don't think it would really. I don't think it would really be that big of a deal. I don't know. Some people. Some people are getting so crazy that this. This one influencer just changed her baby's birth date because she didn't want her baby's birth date to be so close to Christmas, which you can't change someone's birth date, by the way. That's not a thing. But, like, people don't even like having their birthday around Christmas. So it's like. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I just think let the holidays be the holidays. Give that person the full moment, a different day. And I personally, I would be annoyed. Because, like, why are you skimping out on my Christmas presents? If you would have picked a random Tuesday, I would have still got Christmas presents and I would have been engaged. Yeah. So why are you messing with me now? Why are you taking away presents? Oh, my God. You. You crack me up. Morgan is, like. Whenever I lived with her, she'd, like, always order something from somewhere. So. Anywhere. It could be a regular piece of mail I got. And she'd be like, ooh, presents. And I'm like, oh, someone sent you something? She's like, no, it's from me. To me. From me. Presents. I love presents. I just love them. I don't know. They just make me feel good. It's, like, one little, like, dopamine hit as you open that tape. Presents. I just. I have, like, such a. I don't know. I have a really bad, like, buyer's remorse. And then I have, like, a hard time with, like, space and, like, where I fit everything. So I just think that, like. Oh, I return a lot of shit. Yeah. I hate returning. But I'm so bad at returning. So then I end up sticking. I'm sticking with it. And then I end up not using it. And then I feel guilty. It's this whole thing, which is why I think that I'm a little bit, like, averse to it all. But I get it. Like, I do, you know. Like, I'm wearing this ring that you got me. And, like, this ring, it doesn't take up space. It's so cute. So if you give good gifts, you're fine. Yeah. Like, I know. I'm, like, I understand the concept of, like, gift giving feeling really good. Because this, like, made me feel good, you know? So, like, I do understand that concept. It just doesn't come as, like, common and as often for me. So that's why I'm, like. Me and Morgan have always been, like, a little bit, like. We've always known this, that we're a little bit different in that aspect. For sure. That's why, like, I love us discussing this story. Because I'm, like, I don't think I would care. But, like, I looked at Morgan. I'm, like, but I think you would. I know. I know. But overall, this one, I don't think you're the asshole for pointing out that this might be tacky to not gift her other things. I do think she would know something's up then, 100%, especially with his parents rolling up. And, like, if you want it to be a surprise, I don't even care if they're fake boxes. If you really don't want to gift her something, put some fake-ass boxes under the tree. But I will say, if you give her something, even if it's, like, a little something, a massage gift card or whatever you want to do, manicure, she'll want to get her nails done after this. Do something. And then be like, oh, oops, there's one more I forgot about. And then you get down on one knee, then it's really a fun surprise, a good proposal. I think that is the best way to do it. It amps it up. Yeah. I just think that depending on their relationship, like, it wouldn't be the worst thing. But I agree that it would be way better to have it be cute and, like, a few little gifts just to warm it up and then with the zinger. Yeah, because then she really won't see it coming. Mm-hmm. Okay, top comment on this. with 15K upvotes. I'm just reading it now, and it's, like, it's kind of what I felt. And someone goes, Not the asshole. I think the idea that proposing is a gift from him to her as opposed to a mutually joyful step forward for both of them is a bit distasteful. And this comment down adds on it. That's how I'd feel about it. I got engaged at my birthday party and I still got a switch to from him. The engagement is a mutual celebration of our love, not a gift to me. That's they're saying it really concisely. And that's how I felt. I know. I know. I guess I'm just like if roles are reversed, though, and if I was spending that much money on a ring for my partner, I feel like I would still view it as, of course, our partnership in itself is a gift and a celebration for both of us mutually. But that amount that you spend on saving towards that ring. Yeah. Is still this like special gift. I don't I mean, might have to do a poll on this one. Might have to do a poll. We just recorded a Patreon episode, too. And we had a story on there. We were like, damn, might have to do a poll. Yeah. And I was like, very we're we've been very opposite today. Yeah, I know. That's so true. Every single story we're like on the opposite ends and we're like, like talking our takes out. I I don't want I don't want to do the poll. I don't want people to all just like just dogpile me. I don't want that. And they probably will. No, it's not. No. And I agree. And I do agree with that. I don't want to do the poll. I don't agree with you. I do agree that like having like the gifts is is nicer. Again, some people do have the conversation, though, like, hey, like if you want an extra nice like ring, like, are you OK with us not like exchanging gifts? Yeah. Then have that conversation or like I think for me, I think you need to have a conversation about the engagement ring your partner wants before just doing it. I don't think engagements should be total surprises. I think you should at least have a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think you should at least have a conversation of like, where do you see us going? Do you want to get married? Do you like like you should be on a similar page. And I get wanting to maybe have a surprise and pick out the ring. But like that person has to wear it. So for me, I was very involved. I didn't want a real diamond. I think real diamonds are a waste of money. I wanted a moissanite ring. And so my ring was really like cost effective. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Frugal. Yeah. And I just think like, again, who's this ring about? Like, does she even care if he spends that much? No, maybe she'd want a moissanite. So she actually gets presents at Christmas. Yeah. So like, I don't know. But I think it again, like people just kind of keep pointing to the attitude of it. Precisely. It's not even about the gift or lack of it's about the mindset. Yep. The mindset of I'm the gift you are getting. Well, okay. But I also think we're hearing this from OP, a friend for sure. Not not Yeah, the guy. And so I'm like, OP, I don't know, he might have just been defensive, because he's like, my friend is telling me like, how I need to show up for one of the biggest moments of in my life. And now and I worked so hard to like save for this ring. And I'm so excited about it. And I like, and and now he's telling me that I'm not enough. And so now I'm getting defensive. Like, maybe he was like feeling like, like, you don't know my relationship. Like, you don't know my life. Like, maybe that's why he like responded that way. And then like, oh, he's retelling. I know, that's a very valid point. I bet you anything Harry's gonna go out and buy gifts after this conversation. Yeah, probably just was defensive and was like, yeah, feeling a little shameful. Yeah, like, you don't know me. Like, don't like know what I'm doing is right. And then he's probably gonna go and be like, damn it and go and like buy a bunch of presents. Like, that's what I'm picturing in my head, which is why I think that I'm just like, this conversation in itself sounds just like two people just like, bickering and one person being defensive, because it is a really big moment. And like you do, you have to save. I mean, not you don't have to like, obviously, there's affordable options, but it sounds like he did save a lot for this ring. And it's probably really like nerve wracking. And so I think I just wouldn't be surprised if he got defensive because of that. And then he's actually gonna like go and do something. Yeah, yeah, I'd be very curious. A lot of people are like, to be honest, this would be a deal breaker for me. It unnerves some underlying attitudes that I would not want to be stuck with for the rest of my life. Plus, it makes it look like a shut up ring in front of everyone else. Embarrassing. You know, I agree with that. I just didn't like, if, if this was coming more from like the source, then I could have more of a read. But it's like, I don't, I honestly don't know how that person got there. Like that seemed really aggressive, where it's like, it's a shut up ring. Yeah, you have no information about their relationship at all. Like, because he's proposing at Christmas and chose not to buy an additional present. It's a shut up ring, right? That's a reach. That's right. That's actually not even a reach. That's a you pulled it out of your ass out of thin air. Yeah, like, that's, that's weird. Right? Yeah. So that's, that's what I'm saying. I'm like, it's hard to really like hard come down hard on this guy, because it's not even coming from him. This is just a friend retelling a story. And, and I just think that like, if, if it were to be me, and I were to have like, saved up and been really like nervous about a really big moment. And then my friend were to be like, kind of being like, what are you thinking? I might first knee jerk reaction. Yeah, for sure. But overall question, am I the asshole for telling my friend that proposing is not a suitable Christmas present? No, you're not the asshole. Like, yo, yeah, I think, you know, it's your friend. Yeah, he was your groomsman. You're close enough to where you can be like, Hey, buddy, get another present. Yeah, not the asshole. Agreed. There is a little bit of an edit. OP quotes, he shouldn't propose to her in front of others. And they say, getting engaged in front of family would suit his partner to a T. This is definitely something she would want based on Yeah. Quote, you shouldn't involve yourself too much in your friend's life. OP says the discussion lasted maybe five minutes while we were having a drink, including Harry saying he'd not bring it up with me anymore. In no way have I told him point blank to do slash not to do something. And we have spoken civilly on other topics since. I would hope that everyone has a friend or two who will be honest with them if they think they're in the wrong. Yeah. To be frank. My question here centered on the proposal as the gift, not on if I'm a bad friend. I think OP has their head on straight. Also, knowing that it was only like a five minute convo, it's not that serious. Yeah. It made it seem like it was like a full on like whole brawl and they weren't talking and, you know, a little more dramatic. But I yeah, there's it's a bit more chill. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree with that. And I think this is just like a good rule of thumb for like everyone listening. I think like more so like the hot question to take from this one is like, should you propose on a holiday in general? That's totally up to each individual, though. I'm like, I want to know what you guys think in the comments. Maybe that'll be the pull. Should you propose on a holiday? I think the whole thing should be you should know your partner well enough to know if that's what they would like. So you're in the car right now. You're driving. Here's your opportunity. If you're listening with your partner, talk about how you would like to be proposed to throw out all the hypotheticals. Here's your opportunity, guys. Pause the episode. Talk about it. Do you want to be proposed to on a holiday? Yes or no? If it's yes. Do you still expect other gifts? Yes or no? Do you want a real diamond? Yes or no? Do you want even a generic ring? Do you want gold? Do you want silver? Talk about what you want. Do you want to get him a ring shortly after? So you both wear a ring. Until the wedding. Talk about it. Here's your chance. But you should know. I agree. You totally should know. Because some people that is like their dream. I watch enough Christmas movies to know that that is a romantic hallmark dream for some people. So I can't imagine like I mean, Christmas is kind of I think in Minnesota, like it's snow and you're bundled and you're cozy and cuddly. It does feel a little bit more romantic, but like insert like Valentine's Day, a lot of people get proposed to on Valentine's Day. That's a big holiday. That counts. It doesn't have to be just Christmas, too. Yeah. Like I was thinking like I would take St. Paddy's Day. Really? Just kidding. I just I just was trying to think of a random holiday like Fourth of July. I don't want to be proposed to on Fourth of July. See, I don't think I care. Some people don't. Yeah, I don't think I do. I just I care about too much. That's my problem. Well, I care about too much in so like I'm also in mental health. Don't worry. We're both just not right here. Not in this circumstance. Not in this one, but in other ones. You're not alone. But yeah, no, our brains are definitely, you know, there's a lot of fire up there. Yeah. Okay. Oh, holidays, man. They bring out some crazy. I think a lot of people are going to get proposed to this holiday. Someone's listening right now and they're in the car with their partner driving to the proposal. And then if they answer that question where it's like, I don't want to get proposed to on a holiday and the person's like sliding the ring out of their pocket and just hiding it like, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yeah. Just like pulls over for gas and calls the whole family like abort. Got it. We're not doing it anymore. Game over. We got to propose in a couple of weeks. Oh, God. If this happens and you literally get proposed to after listening to this episode, invite us to the wedding. Like what? What? What? Morgan, you don't have time. I don't have time. You always say that. I do get a decent amount of still from you guys. And I look at your pictures and they're so beautiful, but yeah, I'm very short on time right now, but I love you guys. So just tag me on Instagram, maybe. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Lauren, for hopping on for these holiday stories. See you in the new year. Okay. I don't want to leave yet. No, I'm kidding. Bye guys. Okay, bye. On to the next guest. Hi friends. Look who our last and final guest is for the holiday stories. You know, this has been a long time that we, I got to, you know, join you for Two Hot Takes, but it's really interesting. Two Hot Takes, that's over there. I know. We went on a field trip. We are on the Father Knows Something set. For those that are new to the show or, I don't know, maybe you've been out of the loop for a while. My dad used to come on in the early days quite a bit. Before we even thought it was going to be a show. And some of my Two Hot Takes were a little off the wall. Were you, were you out there? I don't remember that, but people liked your responses enough that they wanted you to start a podcast as well. So my dad has his own show. He takes all listener write-ins and it's basically Two Hot Takes, but with a dash of dad advice and me and Justin chiming in from time to time and still chaotic per usual. Really good. But that's like our second little kid. So we're over on his set because we just got done. Recording an episode. And I figured, hey, let's include him in the holiday episode and cap it off with some wise wisdom on this naughty or nice, ho-ho, horrible holidays. And a hot take. Maybe. Okay. Maybe. Let's see if dad has it hot. Okay. Let's get into these. Okay. Dig in. Okay. Let's dive into this. Okay. This is coming from A-I-T-A-H, Am I the Asshole? Titled, Am I the Asshole for Blaming? Am I the Asshole for Blaming? My fiance for Thanksgiving being a disaster? Absolutely. You think asshole? I don't know. He probably deserved it, but let's find out before. Let's not be too quick to judge. So you might actually be not the asshole. He may not be. No. I'm sitting in my pajamas fuming about this whole thing. And my fiance is acting like he holds no equal footing here. I need to know I'm not crazy. When I was about four years old, my parents introduced me to their friend, Rose. She started spending a lot of time with us and eventually moved in. They were always close friends and she was very good to me, but I didn't think anything weird of it. A lot of people knew I lived with family, so I thought it was like that. When I was a preteen, they explained to me that they were all together. Not polygamy or a sister-wife situation, but Rose was in love with and dating both of my parents. It was a little jarring, but I accepted it and honestly, it didn't change much. Rose was still one of the people who helped me with homework, pitched in with dinner, taught me how to ride a bike, etc. She was there for every big moment, even the sad ones. The only thing that changed is they started kissing one another in front of me, but nothing gross, just the typical parents pecks or whatever. I knew this wasn't normal for every family. My friends were fine with it when they found out not all of their parents were as understanding or accepting of me as they were. I knew that I was a bad person, but I didn't but we were old enough that we could see each other outside of our homes and it didn't impact me a whole lot socially. Twice, I had a boyfriend who found it weird, but it was revealed early on in our relationship, so it wasn't a huge heartbreak. I've been with my fiancé for the past three years. We've been engaged for one. When we started dating, I explained to my parents and he was cool with it. He's hung out with them and spent the holidays with us. His family lives across the country and they haven't been able to fly out to visit each other. I've been able to visit much. We've only afforded one trip there since I started dating him. The first time I was meeting them, I asked my boyfriend to tell his parents about my parents and Rose and asked him to let me know what they said. He told me that they were completely fine with it. Every time we saw each other, it never came up specifically, but I would mention Rose in passing and no one batted an eye, so I figured all was fine. This year, his parents were able to fly out for Thanksgiving. My fiancé and I were hosting. My parents and Rose were coming too. Again, I don't think much of it. Everyone's under one roof. Everything's nice and merry. Then at some point, I go to check on the food and when I come back, things are noticeably awkward. Fiancé's parents, my parents and Rose all look uncomfortable. Fiancé looks annoyed. I ask what's wrong, but no one will tell me. I awkwardly announce that I'm not going to be able to fly out for Thanksgiving. I'm going to that it's time to eat. The meal is quiet. Outside, my parents and Rose are engaging with me. Fiancé's parents leave for their hotel as soon as we're done eating and don't even bother to stay for dessert. I'm even more confused. My mom eventually pulls me into the other room and explains that while I was checking on the food, she, my father, and Rose were talking about a trip they're taking. Fiancé's parents looked confused and Fiancé's mom asked, quote, Rose is going with you? My mom said, of course, which seemed to disturb them. My mom then said she explained that they were in a relationship together and that even further disturbed them. Somebody wasn't being, you know, clear. My mom told me that she was hurt, that I lied, that his parents were okay with them. It wouldn't have changed that they came, but they would have been more careful to not make it awkward. I told them I didn't lie at all. My fiancé told me they were okay with it. She apologized for accusing me and I apologized that she went through that. She, my dad, and Rose left not long after that. My fiancé and I got into a huge argument after this. He said he didn't know how to tell them, so he just didn't. I told him he's been lying to me for two and a half years and put everyone in an uncomfortable position. I asked what his parents thought, and he had told them Rose was my aunt who lived with them to save on rent. I asked him what he expected to happen. My parents and Rose aren't making out and in people's faces, but when they're in what they assume are safe spaces, they act like they're in a relationship. He claims it's all on his parents for being weirded out and making it awkward. I said, no, this is on him. He lied to everyone, and made it terrible for everyone. Sure, his parents could have acted normally, and they are at fault for not recovering and trying to have a nice meal, but he's still more so at fault. He just doubled down and said he didn't do anything wrong. He is now mad at me and says that I shouldn't be blaming him for this, and instead should just be mad at his parents. I am just so confused and lost, and I'm wondering if I'm going crazy by being mad at him. Am I the asshole? Well, I gave that answer in my first sentence. You actually were thinking he was not the asshole. No, no, he is the asshole. You do think he's the asshole? Absolutely. Okay, why? Why do you think that? Well, he lied. He didn't come clean, so my question really is, who fixes this mess? I think he needs to. Absolutely. He's got to be the one to go in there, and he's got to go do what he should have done in the very first place. He's got to do what he should have done in the very first place, and say, this might be more common than what we think in our lives with people, but this is definitely something that's going on in this family. Don't be rocked. Be prepared for what it is. If you have questions, ask your questions, and whatever it is. I mean, we're family. Look, this couple's getting married. They're going to have children. Well, they may not now. I don't know if they're going to get to the altar after this one. This is a pretty big deal. This is a very big deal. Because it goes back into truth, and do you believe your partner? What else are they going to fucking lie about? I know. Well, the thing is, too, it's like, it should be on him to go and fix this, but can he even be trusted? First and foremost, you need to go and clear the air with your parents and just be like, hey, guys, I don't know how to tell you. They're all together. To her parents, too. Absolutely. Because that's uncomfortable. Like, you're going in, you think it's a safe space, and they even said, like, we just would have been more quiet about it. We wouldn't have made it awkward. They're not in the wrong at all. He really did mess up by lying, and for two and a half years. He is clearly the asshole. There is no doubt about it, and he's got to fix this thing. If he's going to be in a relationship, even if she allows him to stay, there's a lot of fixing to do here. For sure. For his family and her family, and the only one that has to do apologies here is him, and he has to own up to all of it with everybody. He better be prepared to take the heat and show what kind of man he is and how strong he is to do it, because she is totally clear on this, and so are her parents. I mean, her parents have. It's their life. That's right. This is acceptable to them. We live in a country where you can do what you want as long as you're not hurting anybody else, and they're not. They're very open about this and they have a love and that should be respected. Yeah, I agree. I mean, a lot of people are kind of having more mixed reactions than I would expect. But overall, I'm seeing that most are leaning not the asshole. AITAH doesn't have a bot that takes all the votes and determines it. But here's a comment that OP does respond to. Your fiance is so obviously in the wrong here for exactly the reasons you identified. There's not even any evidence his parents were embarrassed about the polyamory. They could have just as easily been embarrassed that their son lied to them. OP responds, yeah, I haven't spoken to them. So I obviously don't know their thoughts. If it was just a lot to deal with at once or if they felt embarrassed for initially being nasty and confused over Rose attending the vacation. Someone else responds and goes, OP, I would text and email them and tell them that you're sorry they didn't know that you asked your fiance to tell them. About your family dynamics several years ago when you first started dating and that he told you that he had and that you had no questions or issues. But again, I don't think it's her place to go and be like, your son was lying to you. I told him to tell you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's his. It's really on him. And if he is unwilling to fix it. Done. This isn't someone you want to be with. He's he's cowardly. Done. He's rap. The thing is. What? What? What? What? What do we call it? Say it with me. What? DTD. Which means? Dump the dude. We all know DDD. Dump that dude. If he can't be honest, he can't be man. He can't man up to this. He did it. Yeah. And you know what? This is not normal. Like, this is not the typical, usual thing you encounter. So to be a little surprised. Yeah, I get it. But again, like, it's none of their business. And even if he would have told them. And they had a bad reaction, then you just know how to navigate it going forward. You don't do shared holidays. You seat them on opposite sides of the venue at the wedding. But you need to be transparent and honest. It's when we date someone for two years, we know their family. We've talked to them. They kind of know the dynamic they're going to walk into. I'm surprised that she didn't have conversations or that that they didn't even ask her about it and maybe that she should have even find it funny that they didn't ask her more about it. I think they did. But she's only been over to their place once during dating. And I think how it was kind of phrased is like the questions they asked were just normal questions that it wasn't like, so how does your parents relationship work with Rose? How does she play in? Who do they share? Well, they weren't getting specific. And it's not her job to do that. No, I mean, it's really their business. You know, her her job is I mean, she could have said, look, you know, my family is doing great. My mom, my dad, Rose or everyone's wonderful. And they could have said, oh, yeah, you got this in their mind. Oh, yeah, Rose. And not even use the word Aunt Rose, just Rose. And she would think it's totally fine. Clearly, he's at fault. I'm not saying that it's that that he is not. I just also recognize that, you know, in conversations that I have with people that I'm involved in family, I do get involved. And we have a lot of conversations about all the characters in our family. And we all. I look at everybody in the family as a character. For sure. For sure. We have a couple more comments from OP. This is the first time that she's caught him lying about something. But he does tend to avoid conflict. He is the one who usually just agree with something just to kind of end the conversation and move on. They have been working on it. And OP has told him it's OK if we don't agree on something. He doesn't have to bend to what I or someone else wants. He can have opinions, too. They are in a really amorous relationship, not polygamy. OP wanted to be like very clear. They're not polygamist, but we do get an update. OK. Mm hmm. So OP goes on to just kind of explain a lot of the common questions. Like, why didn't I tell his parents myself about my parents and Rose? This was a decent point. While I don't believe it is my fault for what occurred, I did understand the POV that this was my situation, my family, and it's something at minimum we should have done together. I guess when it comes to situations like that, people's parents finding out about my own, usually friends, they just do it for me. It's not something I ask them to do. They usually ask me permission before our families meet. And I say, yes, I thought it would be easier if my fiance told them before our arrival, so it wasn't just me word vomiting. Hi, nice to finally meet you. By the way, my parents are in a polycule. But looking back, yes, I can acknowledge I should have offered to tell them as a couple. That being said, if you felt that uncomfortable doing it alone, I wish you would have told me. He should have told her. This was again, she has no ownership of this at all. He was he said, I did it. He could have easily said, I can't do it. Do it with me. Yeah, he could have done that. Well, OP does go on to add point number two. Do his parents think that my parents and Rose are related? And so OP is now like, oh, they assumed Rose was an aunt. My mind went to family friend, but Jesus Christ, realizing they probably thought this was a flowers in the attic type situation, no shit, they freaked out. So they're probably actually thinking that maybe Rose is related and an actual aunt versus a family friend that got the term aunt. Well, I don't know what they think, but the bottom line is he at this point in time, the minute after this whole fiasco started, he should have been within five minutes at his parents hotel telling them, I'm sorry, mom and dad, I failed to educate you properly. I was told to do this two years ago and I am wrong. And let me get you every let's get everybody clear so nobody's uncomfortable. He had that he had that obligation to do within five minutes after this event, and he still has not done it. Yeah. So here's the actual update. You guys, we do get like beyond the clarifying points. Of course, there's more anyway. Let's get into the update. As per point number two, I realized the context that they were lacking may be playing a part in all of this. So early this morning, I texted and asked if we could meet up and talk. They were all for it. I went without my fiance as we still weren't really talking. We met for breakfast and the first thing I asked was for them to give their side. As most of you expected, the weirdness and judgment they were giving was because they assumed Rose was my mom's sister. They actually seemed relieved when I explained the whole story and are supportive. They want to properly re meet my family, which I said was sweet. I didn't want to get into the whole I don't know where your son and I stand as that wasn't their problem, however, his mom did clarify. So my fiance's name knew the whole story this whole time and lied. Yes. Yes. Shit had lied. Your shit had son. I was honest and said. Yes, I said maybe I should have made sure he actually told them. But his dad actually interrupted and said if he promised to tell them, then it was on him to say it. They were both very disappointed in him. They actually said what a lot of you did. Even if he lied for all this time, he should have spoken up when things got awkward and smoothed out the situation, he still failed or even grabbed me to. They felt even worse. But I told them it wasn't their fault given the context of the situation. I don't blame them for acting weird. The meeting ended on a positive note. We're all supposed to have lunch later on. But given everything with my fiance, I didn't feel great about going. So I had him go alone. I told his parents ahead of time and they understood. When fiance came back from lunch, he apologized. He said he wasn't sure how to tell them and kept meaning to. He also kept hoping it would naturally come up. I pointed out it wasn't that he just didn't tell them. He actively lied. Of course, they never suspected Rose. Rose was anything more than an aunt in my stories because that's the lie he planted. He was sincere in his apology. But then he mentioned he got a tongue thrashing from his parents. And I wondered if he would have apologized had they not told him what a jerk he was. I said I understood if he felt weird about telling them, but he should have told me we could have navigated shit together. Instead, he let it explode and then did zero to help clean it up. Nor did he take accountability until mommy and daddy scolded him. He made my parents and Rose look bad, made me look even worse. And most importantly, he lied to me and his parents for two and a half years. How am I supposed to trust him again about anything? I listed some of the examples you guys gave. He got quiet and said he understood, but he wanted to rebuild the trust. I asked if he was really OK with my family dynamic, and he insisted he is. He says he loves my family and really has no issues. He just didn't know how to tell them. I said I want to believe him. But you can never fully trust a liar again. He asked what we could do to fix this. I said I needed time. He offered counseling and I said I'd consider it. We had started planning our wedding a few weeks ago, but that has been put on hold indefinitely. I had been living with him since the engagement, but I'm back with my parents and Rose for now. I have to decide if this is something I can live with going forward. It's only been a few hours, so I genuinely have no idea if I can forgive him for this and move on. One person said, this will be a funny story one day. remember the Thanksgiving where your parents didn't know who Rose was? And I don't even know if I could ever get there. I love him. I thought he was my person. I don't want to throw it away, but I need some space. If we move forward with the relationship, we will absolutely be going to counseling. I told him even if we break up and I don't go, he needs to enter therapy for his conflict avoidance. He didn't disagree. He also called my parents and Rose to apologize. They were civil, but I know they are not happy. Fiance's parents, however, invited them out to a do-over dinner before they head back to the West Coast. And with my blessing, they're going. It'll be nice if they can be friends after all of this. That's where we are. Everything is so fresh and I still don't know what I want yet. I'm going to take the holidays to reset and rethink about a lot. Thank you for all the advice. We definitely want to watch for these updates. See what she does too. Oh yeah. I mean, this is super. Super fresh. This is a trust issue and she has handled this with such grace. A lot. Yeah. I mean, totally in control of who she is and what it takes to get it done. I know. We like this woman. We do. And I mean, it is tough. It's really, really hard when a lie just shakes you to your core in your relationship. And it's like, how do we get that back? But they're still pretty young. I shut my computer thinking I'm ready. I'm like, they seem pretty young at least. But now I'm realizing we have no mention of age. So I don't know how young they are actually. You know, he, I don't care how old. You still, you don't lie for two and a half years. You don't do that. You got to grow up. Not in this whole thing. You certainly, especially when they're coming to dinner. I know. I really, really, really love his parents though. Oh, they're great. Like they just kind of. Got with the program. Felt bad about how they reacted. Wanted to make it right. Taking them out to dinner. I mean, they're good eggs. I'm sure they raised a good egg. He's just maybe got some serious issues with conflict avoidance. And after some therapy could really work through that and you can build the trust back. But hey, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. And you move on and you find the next one. Wow. I know. If you are on your way to a holiday party, and you're lying to your partner, you got a couple minutes to pause this and come clean. I would recommend it. Come clean, guys. That's all I got for this episode of Too Hot Takes. I believe this is the last episode of 2025. So I finished 2025 for you. You did. Won't see you until the new year. We do have an episode coming on the first. No days off this year. Worked through the wedding, worked through the holidays. Love you all so much. And just want to make sure you're fed. If you want even more content, come over to Patreon. We've got three amazing bonus episodes this month. Come over to Father Knows. If you haven't seen Father Knows, check it out. We have 182 episodes, I think, now. Are you sure? I'm pretty close. God, I keep shutting this computer and it's like, why? Why do I bother? That many? We've got 246 episodes of Too Hot Takes right now. Mm-hmm. Father Knows has 181 episodes. Ah, but I shot a couple that aren't there yet. So you're at 183. So we will hope that you'll see them all. And once you start, we know you'll enjoy it because that's the word out on the street. We get started. We get hooked. We love it. It's not bad. So check it out. Yeah, but see you guys in the new year. Thank you for being here another year and supporting this show. It's amazing what this show has grown into and what we've accomplished this year. And 2026 is going to be even bigger, even better, but it wouldn't be possible without all of you guys. So thank you so much and happy holidays. And we'll see you in 2026. And maybe she might save me for the last show of 2026. Maybe. Maybe something before. We'll see. We'll see. Bye. Bye, guys. Bye. We'll see you in 2026. Coca-Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you. Welcome back, frickin' frack. Welcome to the jungle. ABC Wednesdays. Abbott is back. It's going to be the best year yet. Thank you. Now we can finally turn. Turn this up. And everyone's going wild. Y'all think you run this school, but you don't. It's going great. Abbott Elementary. Anything can happen in the jungle. Right, guys? All new Wednesdays on ABC and stream next day on Hulu.