Fertilizer 101 Podcast Ep. 9: Digging Deeper into Phosphorus, Phosphate, Fertilizer, and Nutrien

Welcome to the Fertilizer 101 podcast where we delve into the fascinating world of fertilizer, the unsung hero that fuels everything from the joys of balcony gardening to the crucial battle against food insecurity. Get ready to explore all the risks to know about fertilizers with your host, Martana Mertz-Meyers. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Fertilizer 101, we break down the science behind modern agriculture one nutrient at a time. I'm your host, Morgana Mertz-Meyers. If you've been with us for a while, you might remember Carl Wyant. He's joined us a while ago to unpack nitrogen and ammonia fertilizers. Well, he's back with us today and we're looking into another essential piece of the fertilizer puzzle, phosphorus and phosphate. Phosphate might not grab headlines, but without it, modern agriculture just wouldn't function. It's natural, it's essential for plant growth, and when it's used responsibly, it helps farmers grow healthy crops while protecting their land and water. We're also going to talk about a place doing this the right way, the nutrient phosphate mine in Aurora, North Carolina. And phosphate's future matters a lot more than most people realize, especially when it comes to national food security. Carl, welcome back to Fertilizer 101. Always good to have you here. Yeah, thank you for having me. For any new listeners, Carl is the director of agronomy at Nutrien, which basically means he's a plant and soil scientist, and also a bit of a coach helping farmers apply fertilizers in ways that are smart, safe and sustainable. Does that sound about right, Carl? Yeah, that's right. An agronomist is a bit of a jack of all trades. We are traditionally trained in some sort of science, whether it's soil or plant science, crop science. And then what we do is we use those technical skills to help solve problems. And so we look at data sources, soil sample data, plant tissue data, even irrigation and spray water data. We combine that with our ability to analyze some of those challenges that a grower's having, whether it's a nutrient deficiency issue in season or maybe an issue with their irrigation water. And we can kind of use those skills to find solutions and help optimize that grower's operation. I mean, that's just awesome. I'm always interested in agronomy, and I think it's just a really amazing field to get involved in. So we'll start from the basics. Phosphorus is one of the three main nutrients that plants absolutely need, nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, that NPK that you'll see on every bag of fertilizer, and I'll talk about on every episode. Phosphorus is also referred to as P in that NPK, and is essential nutrients for plants needs. In nature, it's usually found as phosphates, which are occurring in kind of rock minerals made of phosphorus and oxygen that's found in the ground. And here's the thing. Phosphate is not a man-made chemical, it's just a mineral, it's part of the earth, like iron or calcium, and it's what plants actually use to get phosphorus. And we mine phosphates from rocks to make fertilizers, also known as plant food. Phosphate is what powers stronger root development, better flowering, and ultimately bigger yields. And without enough phosphate, crops are stunted, yields drop, farmers struggle. But let's be clear, nobody is like inventing phosphate, right? Phosphate is just naturally occurring, mind carefully, processed to just assist with the purity and return to the soil where it's needed, because it's not evenly distributed. Carl, can you help us all digest everything here? How are phosphorus and phosphate connected? Yeah, great question, and I think this confusion comes up often. The phosphorus, like you said, is the P. If you look at a periodic table, you'll see a P there on the right-hand side. That's phosphorus. And so that's really what we need to drive a lot of different biological processes. If you think about DNA, it's a twisting ladder. The phosphorus forms the sides of that ladder that are twisting. So you need it for your DNA. If you want to do any sort of biological work, whether you're a plant, a human, or an animal, you need to pay for that work. And we use a currency called ATP. It shouldn't surprise you, but the P in ATP stands for phosphorus. So we need that phosphorus to pay for the actual work the body's doing, or the crops doing. And then finally, if you're a complex cell, like plants and animals, you need to contain all of your different machinery inside of the cell. So we use a type of phospholipid to make membranes. And so the phosphorus shouldn't surprise anybody. There's another P need to connect in how dependent crops and animals are on phosphorus as a vital element. The phosphate comes into play. When we start turning kind of our heads back to, "Oh, how are we going to get the phosphorus on the field?" Well, phosphate is those materials that contain P, things like the mineral appetite. That's what we're after when we mine phosphorus. We're finding a phosphate-rich mineral called appetite. And so this also extends out to fertilizers, monoammonium phosphate. That's a very pretty famous name in the phosphorus fertilizer world, very commonly used as a dry material, so now we've made a compound containing phosphorus, monoammonium phosphate. And that's also called MAP, right? Yep. Some folks call it MAP. Some folks call it 1152 based on the analysis. Either way, you slice it to a very popular fertilizer. That's so awesome. And I really had the pleasure of meeting you down at the nutrient mine in a rural North Carolina to go check on and see how phosphate mining is actually done. And I was lucky enough to go with you down there in April. It's a really impressive site. Can you describe what it's like at the mine and why it's such a big deal for American agriculture? Sure. The Aurora North Carolina site has been in operation for several decades and we are located just a few hours east of Raleigh, North Carolina, right along the coastline. It's a beautiful place to work and it's a wonderful place to visit, as you said. So here in our mine, we have a nice phosphate-rich ore body. And that's what we're digging up and bringing to the surface and then process it into fertilizer and food and industrial products that are high in phosphorus. So interesting site to go to. If you like big drag line equipment and sedentary mining, it's definitely something to check out on YouTube. But yeah, the process is fairly simple. We're taking an ore that's rich in phosphorus and we're turning into something that plants and animals can use down the road. Oh, and the equipment there was really, really interesting to see because it's not just digging up rocks. There's a lot of science and planning around how that phosphate moves safely from the ground and with those draggers into usable fertilizer and even other things, right? That's right. That's a top concern. So you're not just out using a huge multi-ton drag line to dig up phosphorus. We do it in a very controlled way that maximizes safety and helps us to plan where we're mining, when we're mining, and the hope is to follow that ore body in a way that makes the most sense economically to extract the phosphorus and turn it into products that we all know and love. We were really lucky to be able to spend time there. One thing we talk a lot about on this show is the 4R nutrient stewardship approach. So using that right fertilizer source at the right rate, the right time, and the right place. And when we're talking about phosphorus, why are the 4Rs so important? Yeah, the 4Rs are important because phosphorus fertilizer has a lot of good that it does. We see large yield gains when phosphorus fertilizer is used on fields and we see even in our own diets. If you're listening to this hold up one finger that represents the number one, that's the percent of your body weight that is made up of phosphorus because it's in your bones and teeth. Right? Like you have to eat food and crops to get that phosphorus. So there's a direct connection back to the fertilizers and feed products that are used that are phosphate rich. And so what we know is we know there's a lot of good phosphorus can do. But when we when we have phosphorus entered into the environment, we can have some environmental issues. So that's what we're trying to control. And there's lots of great data out there that shows that if you follow these 4R practices, you can optimize your input use, grow high quality crops and create feed products. And also to help to minimize some of that phosphorus pollution on the back end. Exactly. You're right, absolutely right there Carl. So let's clear up some of the biggest myths that float around for phosphate and fertilizer. So we're going to play a quick game called Five Fast Phosphate Facts. Carl, we're going to ask you five quick questions about phosphate and give you about one minute to answer each fact. Are you ready to play? Sure thing. Let's go. Great. So is phosphorus always necessary for plant growth? Oh, absolutely. Phosphorus is part of your big three N, P and K, the K standing for potassium and nitrogen. So if you don't have phosphorus in your crop system, you will definitely see deficiencies in yield losses because of how important phosphorus is for crop production. Does phosphate mining ruin the land permanently? At Neutron, we have a lot of pride in our restoration efforts. So as a part of our compliance with the North Carolina folks that oversee mining, we are required to reclaim land that was once mined and restore it as close as possible to the original habitat. So if you're out there, you can see formerly mined land and you'd have a hard time distinguishing it from land that's never been touched. So if you do it right and you mine responsible, you can not leave that scar on the land like you might be imagining in your head. And honestly, the land out there Carl is beautiful. I don't think I've ever seen so many turtles in my life or birds. It was absolutely stunning out there. Next question is phosphate natural. That's a great question. Sometimes phosphate gets branded with the name synthetic or something like that man made. But really what's, we're digging up the material from ore bodies that are in the earth. It comes straight from the earth. And then we simply refine those ore bodies into products that we always, we use in an everyday basis, you know, fertilizers, industrial products and feed products. So cool. And does fertilizer automatically pollute rivers and lakes? No, there's fertilizers, essentially phosphorus and nitrogen as well. You know, they do a lot of good for the world. They help to produce more calories on a plot of land than we would see otherwise. So lots of calories are tied to phosphate production, lots of protein productions tied to phosphate fertilizer use. And so there's a lot of good that the material does. But if it's applied irresponsibly, too much phosphorus, not keeping it out of the waterways, you can see some issues with pollution. But we have precision farming practices. We have soil testing and we have, of course, the 4R framework to work with to really help optimize the good part, the yield production and the sustainable intensification of the land use while minimizing the losses, which that's something that we don't want to see. Can farmers skip phosphate altogether? Yeah. So this is a tricky question because as maybe the ultimate way an agronomist speaks is it depends. Some soils that have high organic matter, they can, they've got a big pool of phosphorus that's locked up in that organic matter. So as long as the microbes are doing their job in the season, they can provide some phosphorus for a season or two until you need to reapply. So that's only so many soils on earth. You know, I think of like the corn belts of the Midwest, maybe the Black Earth region of Ukraine that have that high organic matter and that high phosphorus reserve. Most soils that we farm aren't that lucky. They typically have low phosphorus just in the soil itself. So they have low organic matter, maybe they have low, not just phosphorus and the minerals in the soil, or maybe they have conditions that like to tie up soils, tie up soil phosphorus. For example, if you have a really high calcium soil under alkaline conditions, you can form the same mineral in the soil that's in your teeth, they'll just make it again in the soil. It's called appetite. So most soils on earth need phosphorus. There's a tremendous demand for phosphorus in these soils. And so those folks that aren't so lucky to have the Iowa soils, they're the ones that are going to see that yield loss if they skip phosphorus. And that's why it's part of your big three, right? Because of the profitability and production tied to using that nutrient. Very true. Very true. And one thing I want to touch on before you wrap up, phosphate isn't just important for farmers. It's a matter of national food security. Right now, phosphate is not officially listed on the U.S. Critical Minerals list, but many experts, including the Fertilizer Institute, believe it should be, Carl, can you explain why phosphate is so vital to national food security and why it should be treated like the strategic resource it is? Yeah, that's a great point to bring up phosphorus. You just can't go make phosphorus anywhere you want, right? Like we're talking about ore bodies that are underground. Most of them are derived from sedimentary rock or sedimentary processes or and then to a small extent, igneous rock. But there's only so many places on earth that have those conditions where you can mine that phosphorus. So we're talking North Africa, parts of China, the United States in Florida and North Carolina and a couple more spots like in Idaho. So there's only a few places on earth that have the ore resources available to mine phosphorus and turn it into the products that we need. And so this this makes it a geopolitical concern because when that, you know, distribution of production is so constrained to just a few places on earth, any sort of disruption is felt much, much more intimately and much more, you know, severely than say something that can be produced anywhere on the globe and sourced easily. So that's one reason why we have some challenges with dependency risk, you know, and that's why thinking about phosphorus is not just a fertilizer or a feed ingredient, but really part of calorie production and protein production. And so if we expose our food chain, if you will, nationally to some of these dependency risks and geopolitical risks, that can help us up to some food security issues that have come to light lately. If there's one thing that I hope our listeners take away from today, it's this phosphate is natural, necessary and a critical resource for farmers to grow food sustainably and protect our national food supplies for the future. Carl, always a pleasure having you on and thanks for helping us break it all down with phosphorus and phosphates. Any last thoughts? Yeah, I think it's important for the listener to understand that they absolutely depend on phosphorus every day of their lives. You know, if they like having bones and teeth, need some phosphorus. If you like having DNA, gotta have phosphorus for that. If you like doing things like playing basketball or breakdancing or screaming in a metal band on stage, you've got to pay for that work, right? And that's where you need phosphorus. So there's a direct connection back from your own life and the quality of your life back to the meats and the crops you consume. And then one step back, there's phosphorus, fertilizer and feed products sitting there for you. So it's important just to recognize that connection. You're not super far away, diet-wise, from that Aurora, North Carolina mine. And these products appear every day in your life, whether you know it or not. They're in soft drinks, they're in foods, they're in crops, like I mentioned. And even that phosphorus might end up in your car if you're driving an EV vehicle. Phosphorous is used part of that battery process for certain models. So not super far from the mine at all, just a couple of clicks. And so if you like phosphorus and find you're interested in this, you know, maybe investigate this critical minerals list and where phosphorus is at in terms of making that list and you might need to talk to express your interest in that. Well thank you again, Carl, for coming on here. And again, we really appreciate taking the tour with you down in Aurora. It is a beautiful site and listeners, you can check out some really cool photos of the tour at www.tfi.org/Aurora. The link is going to be in the bio of our podcast as well. And thank you all for tuning in. If you learned something new today, share this episode with a friend, a neighbor, or send it on to your local policymaker. And be sure to follow Fertilizer 101 on Spotify, iHeartRadio, and Apple Podcasts so you never miss an episode. Until next time, stay curious and stay rooted.