Female Psychopath Explains How She Manipulates Men - Kanika Batra - #1142

you're a diagnosed sociopath you also say that you're the most manipulative person I'll ever meet and you can lie better than anybody why should I believe anything that you're about to tell me well I don't have a lot to lose by lying people know who I am people know that I can manipulate in many different ways it's just an idea of I understand that you're a certain type of person and I know how to work every type of person. But I can verify my diagnosis through independent sources like Business Insider. Why should I believe anything you're going to tell me over the next couple of hours? Why wouldn't you just manipulate your way through the entire conversation? Because I'm lifting the mask, okay? I'm lifting the mask. I did it before. I'm going to do it again. I'm going to give you raw and unfiltered. And then you can just cut out whatever you don't like. That sounds good to me. Should I be scared of you? Absolutely not. I'm five for one. What am I going to do? That's fair. That's fair. Okay. So what is a sociopath? What's your specific diagnosis? So I've been diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder as well as narcissistic personality disorder. And I fit the profile, my psychiatrist says, of a factor one psychopath. Because psychopathy actually comes from narcissism. So the glibness, the superficial charm, the ability to essentially go from one job to another. Being able to pathologically lie. All of those. And being very grandiose. They're all very narcissistic traits. So that's where psychopath diverges into factor one and factor two. Factor one is primary psychopathy. So that's basically your engine running. Factor two is you're causing a lot of problems to society. It's like the more anti-societal norm behavior. So it's like, you know, being a truant, stealing. Lying to people. Committing crimes that would put you in prison. All of the reckless stuff that we tend to do. So I lean more onto the factor one because I've had a brain scan. And my amygdala does not light up. It just doesn't. So I know what people are feeling. I just will never feel it. And I know how to mimic an accurate response. Something that they would want to see. Like if someone's just dying. Died, right? My friend died last week. I just, I can cry on command. So I can just go to the funeral and cry. You seem distraught about it. Oh, I am. I only knew her for about four years. That's kind of long for a lot of people. Friendship's long-ish. Okay. Talk to me about the DSM. Sociopath isn't a diagnosis. It's more a colloquial term for antisocial personality disorder. Yes. I wanted to explain. I wanted to explain. I wanted to explain that because everyone keeps getting at me like, sociopath isn't a real thing. Or I thought you were a sociopath and then you're saying psychopath. Okay. So antisocial personality disorder is one of the bases of psychopathy, factor one and factor two. So factor one completely lacks anxiety and has no fear response, which is me. Factor two is they do get a lot of anxiety. They get very violent. They're very aggressive. They do not have a conscience. They are unable to feel guilt for anything that they do. But they are hot tempered, whereas I'm cold, essentially. I can plan over months and months if I'm trying to achieve something. They, if you said, for factor two, if you just say something that they find offensive, they will blow up. They will. More impulsive. Yeah. Way more impulsive, way more chaotic, more likely to go to prison. Interesting. More dangerous or less dangerous? It depends because a factor one psychopath, let's say, I don't know, a good representation would be Hannibal Lecter. Like he, I think he's a bit of a threat, but then. Sort of more chilling than terrifying. Yeah, exactly. So factor one is chilling. Factor two is this guy's going to set me on fire right now. What about the antisocial personality disorder? What's that consistent? So antisocial, the basic traits that you need is like a lack of remorse, lack of guilt, lack of empathy, being, having antisocial crimes. So antisocial norms. So this can include hurting animals, hurting children, hurting other people around you. That's sort of, those are sort of the hallmarks of antisocial personality. And then when you combine antisocial and narcissistic and put them together, you get either a malignant narcissist or the kind of psychopath that will absolutely ruin your life. What was childhood like for you? It was fine. I used to witness. A lot of domestic violence. So, uh, my father was aggressive towards my mother and my brother. I was never treated badly by my dad. He bought me anything I wanted. He essentially never said no to me. Like we had just flown to Australia from New Zealand and I was five or so. And I said, I wanted a specific Barbie doll and he walked three kilometers to go get it, even though it was jet lagged, you know, it was like, cause we had to pack up all our stuff and move. And so that was something that I had. Um, my mom would beat the shit out of me though, because. So dad beat mom and mom beat you. Yes. But I didn't mind because it's like, that's the kind of discipline that I think I needed because I was a menace. I was an absolute menace. I was a truant. I used to lie, I used to steal. I used to physically harm people. Um, I used to harm other children as well. Mostly my age. Like I pushed a girl down the stairs and she broke her leg in three different places. Um, and then I got her suspended because I said that she made a racist claim, which she, she didn't, but she, she was, uh, the kind of person who you could believe would say something like that. So, um, How old were you? 14. Yeah. So pretty early on, I had conduct disorder and I had callous unemotional traits. Um, that's, I guess that's why I got the antisocial personality disorder. It kind of is a precursor to that. Um, but I would say in terms of the rest of my childhood, I also had thalassemia. So it's a blood disorder where my bone marrow can't produce its own red blood cells. So I have to get transfusions every three to four weeks. And so, because of that, I got so much attention constantly. Like people were always around me, making me, making sure that I was feeling good. You know, not sick. Kind of center of attention, not necessarily for a reason that you want, but you still get a lot of attention. And then also because of that, um, also on top of that, I should say is I did child modeling. So I got a lot of validation from there too. So I always got validation from everyone around me, just not for the things, but it was always for the things that I do, not me as a human. So I feel like that kind of shaped how I saw things and how I made everything very transactional. When did you realize that you were different? Probably. Four or five. What did that look like? It was just that I couldn't understand why people looked so happy and how they could be friends with each other and they didn't really do anything. Like I couldn't understand what was so attractive about a person and wanting to be their friend. I was, I was sort of forced to deal with other people. Like at my, I think it was my fourth birthday or my third birthday. Um, I had a friend who was a really fat girl and I told my mom, like, do not let her ride my new Barbie bike. She's too fat and it will break. And she let her use the Barbie bike and it broke. So I'm just saying, but outside of that, I was like, how are people like, how do people react like normally to things? How, like what's wrong with me? It just, it started to crystallize more around like, I think 10, 11. It just felt like there's like this glass between a wall of glass between me and other people that I can watch you, I can observe you, I can study what you do, I can see what's successful about you and I will emulate that, but I will never feel it. Like I will never understand what proper, I guess, guilt feels like. I won't feel what remorse feels like. I don't, I've never had anxiety a day in my life. What have you come to believe about whether sociopaths are born or made? So I believe that factor one psychopaths are actually born and factor two, so psychopaths, I know they tend to say factor one is psychopath, factor two is sociopath, but that's inaccurate terming. For factor two, I would say that's being made, you're being made. Why? Because that's after an abuse, it's usually during an abusive home life. So they experience all of the, like the volatility, they experience domestic violence, they see that this is the way to get power in life is to have physical strength and full control over another person. And it's, it's, it's so overwhelming for them. And they turn to violent crimes because of that. And I think with both of us, like both factor one, both factor two, they, we have equal levels of loneliness, so we sort of channel it a little bit differently to them. Is there a history of mental illness or anything in your family? I would say my paternal side is extremely psychopathic. I know on my mom's side, there's one person who Is there anyone worse than you? Yeah. Um, okay. So this is a pretty dark story, but, okay, so my aunt, when she was 17, she She had premarital sex with a guy who promised to marry her and then he refused to marry her and because she'd been tarnished, they weren't very happy with her in the family. So she was found burned on a stove. She had third-degree burns all over her body and she asked for a red sari to be buried, like not buried, but when she was in the hospital fighting for her life, she asked for a red sari because she believed she was going to get to marry the guy that she slept with. What, a red sari, sorry? So you'd wear that at your wedding, you know, a sari, like the Indian, yeah. And so, yeah, she asked for that. And I asked my dad because I didn't even know this happened because. Burned on a stove? Yeah, her head was put on the stove and then they put kerosene on her as well for the rest. Who did? My grandfather. Because she'd had sex before marriage? And he refused to marry her, yeah. So she's tarnished. Did she survive? No, she's dead. I didn't know she existed. Like, I saw a photo of four little kids and my dad's, like, there's like this old box that he has. And I was like, okay, but you have two siblings. Who are these other ones? Like, which one's you? He's like, no, that's Raju and that's Baby. And Baby was the one who was killed and she was only 17. Raju died from, I think, some sort of kidney problem. Okay, yeah, that might be a little bit of a history. Yeah, and then on my mum's side, this one's crazy. So my uncle, he got married five times, different women, swindled all of them, took all of their money, took all of their happiness and sanity. And then he ended up selling my grandparents' home, which is worth a lot, a lot, to three different people. So he took the money from three different people and he fled to America. So if he ever goes back onto Indian soil, he will be arrested. Five women swindled all of them, sold the house. Yeah, and now he's married to his childhood sweetheart. Look, you can't have a happy ending, apparently, after all of that. What do you think it was like for your parents growing up with you? My mum used to call me Shaitan, which is Satan in Hindi. Okay. Everyone's got to have a cute nickname, I suppose. I guess, yeah. Yeah, so she called me Shaitan. They had problems with me early on because I was attacking other children. And so they were like, oh, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know. If I knew, I wouldn't be in this position. It was just, I guess, because I've hurt other children. It's not always something you can discuss, but I would say it's more like, apart from pushing the girl down the stairs, I've burnt people. I've done some things. And my parents had to cover for me a lot. So that was a problem. But because I did so well academically, the teachers would always side with me. Everything was kind of copacetic for me. But my mum used to call me Satan. And my dad calls me Guria, which means little doll. And so I got unending affection from my dad because my first word was papa. And yeah. Do you think that there's something around the tension between dad seemingly being coddling and enabling and mum being the disciplinarian that created a bit more tension? Yeah, I'd say so. Because any time I would cry or cause any stress in the family, my dad would always, always take my side. And that would mean that he'd have a fight with my mum. And so I guess I weaponized that a lot. So it kind of created a triangulation that I didn't know was a thing back then. Because I'm like, I don't know, seven, eight, nine. When did this get most extreme or intense? Because, I don't know, you haven't walked in here, at least yet, you haven't attacked anybody or burnt anyone. It seems to me, you're now married. You've got a husband who's come with you. That seems relatively domesticated compared with the person that we're hearing about from childhood. Yes. If you're sort of tracking over time when the most intensity of this. Rage. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk me through the timeline of sort of where that got to and where it fell off. Absolutely. So I would say the worst part was, it was in my teenage to early 20s. So I stole from people, including my parents. I was very violent in my high school. I would cause, like, not only physical damage, like I used to push this girl off her stool every morning. And the stools were pretty high. They were up, like, here in the science lab. And so I would knock her down every single day and her legs were super bruised. I would also end up, like, I guess, sabotaging friends who I thought were getting more, success than me. Or I'd get very, very angry if someone said that I wasn't as intelligent as I knew I was because of my scores. So that would result in, like, fistfights and pulling people's hair out. But as you've said, you're five foot one. I know, but back then. And would have been smaller back then. Back then, no, I've been five foot one since I was, like, 12. Okay, all right, cool. Yeah, but luckily, other women are easily, like, other female children are easy to neutralize when you know what to go for. If you go for the eyes, if you go for the throat, if you go to. Certain areas of the body, it's, like, no matter what, your size is, like. You sound like the New Zealand Bass Rooten, if you know who that is, the guy from the fucking UFC. Oh, my God. Go on. Yeah, that's brilliant. So that was bad. But then in my early 20s, it was, like, fraud. I would steal people's credit cards. I would go, like, have a competition with my friend, who I believe also has antisocial personality, to see what we could take from different stores. And there was. To a fair bit, there was. I was pretty awful to people. Like, I would break up with them on their birthdays, create, like, create drama in terms of smearing their character, because I know how to do that very well. But because I was, like, sort of shifting a little bit, because I was seeing a psychiatrist. So when I got diagnosed, like, do you want to know about that? Yes. Okay. So I got diagnosed at 21, and this was after I tried to kill myself. Because I tried to kill myself, because I was getting migraines every day. And I was thinking, I don't want to live with this kind of pain daily. And the doctors weren't taking me seriously. My GP told me to stop calling. My neurologist said it wasn't a big deal. And I'm like, yeah, it's not a big deal for you, bro. You're not dealing with it. And so I was like, okay, fuck it. I'm going. So I took the pills, woke up in hospital, realized I'd failed. Disappointed about that. What did you do? What did you try and do? I took 15 endep pills, so 15 amitriptylenes. Which really. Yeah, it's actually lethal. So I don't know what happened. And so I woke up, and they said, do you want to be in an inpatient facility, or do you want to go outpatient? And I was like, yeah, outpatient. I'm not going to live in that house. I'm sorry. And so when I went, I was evaluated for over 16 months by a forensic psychiatrist. I've actually been on TV with him. And he told me that I had antisocial personality disorder. He told me I had narcissistic personality disorder. He would talk about. Because. Oh, yes, I forgot to say. He also worked in prisons. So he would try to discourage me from criminal activity because he would tell me specific stories about the women and what they get treated like in that prison. So he's like, you will. He didn't try to do it from a moralistic place. He did it from, you're going to suffer. You're going to have. For a utilitarian. Yes, utilitarian. That's exactly the word. That's exactly how he talked to me. And talking to him probably. Made me a bit more glib, a bit better at, like, creating charm. Why? Because he would teach me ways of talking to people that were kind of new to me. So I would weaponize that sort of language and mimic sort of. I'm very good at mimicking people. So I'm good at mirroring. I'm good at giving the right responses. And he kind of taught me some of the right responses that I didn't already know. So what he's trying to do is explain to you the situation, explain your diagnosis to this person who's 21 years old. Yeah. And has been dealing with. And has been dealing with this for as long as she can remember. Yeah. But what he's actually doing is laying out a blueprint of how other people operate. Exactly. Which you then take and use. Exactly. Okay. That's interesting. And use specific language to do it. So that was really helpful. But like. What specific language? So, you know, if someone's going through something, like, or you're going through some severe pain in your life, just being able to say, I understand what you're doing. Like, I feel it really badly. I can't believe this is happening to you. You mean so much to me. Mm. And then just the tears. And, yeah. Interesting. That would be generally what I do. You know the idea of a pee zombie? Have you heard of this? No, I haven't. A philosophical zombie. So it's a thought experiment. I think people kind of accuse AI of being this too. It's able to do all of the things. Imagine you had a human that looks like a human, walks and talks like a human, and makes all of the actions and responds that way, but there's nothing, there's no motivation going inside. No. That's not quite the same, because there are motivations. It's just the reason for the motivations are more contrived with you. But it is kind of pee zombie adjacent a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. that actually makes sense uh okay what emotions do you feel i feel all emotions except for like i don't think empathy counts as an emotion so i would say the fleeting emotions are like joy happiness being a proud of myself um anything positive is very long a lot anything positive is very short-lived everything negative like rage like uh contempt uh anything along the lines of anger that stays for a while which is really frustrating because it's like why couldn't you give me more of the good stuff like why am i feeling the bad stuff why is there not psychopathy for positive emotions yeah well it's just people walking around in bliss all the time remembering all the nice things that happen yeah and the problem is it's like two different areas of the brain so one is like yeah you should feel shit all the time and one's like i'll give you five seconds of like a good time today and it's like why are you doing this to me tell me if this sounds familiar you train regularly 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functionhealth.com modern wisdom that's functionhealth.com modern wisdom so you feel all emotions but you skew toward negative unfortunately and and not just it sounds not so much is it depressive negative or like active negative no so my i do like experience depression if you will but for me it's no profound sadness it's a completely flat feeling of having nothing and you just consume so much time like volumes of time and you don't even know what you've done with it and so it's like you kind of just flounder and that lasts for a while unfortunately so i really don't like that i can't handle boredom at all you said uh you don't think that empathy is an emotion no but something like uh guilt i think would would almost certainly i think almost certainly guilt has to be guilt is the reason that guilt exists is to identify it's a self-identifier from your system to tell you that there is an imbalance in the uh ledger between you and something else or somebody else that's a self-identifier and that's a self-identifier that i have taken too much from this situation you can imagine why in a tribe this would be needed that you need to ensure that everybody else sees you in a positive manner and if you're the person that's always taking from the food and never giving it you should feel guilt because it's an early warning sign that hey other people are not going to like you at some point in future which is where the transactional stuff comes from but for you that's so interesting i actually didn't know that so the way i see guilt as a social it's a social conditioning emotion that is useless because what can i do about things i've done 20 years ago like am i gonna go say sorry and it's gonna fix it no it's not i guess that's why i burnt a lot of bridges but it's it's just something that i don't feel it's like i live in the present if it's not in the present it doesn't matter well you say that you live in the present but a lot of time is being spent maybe planning and concocting ways to get back at people that's living in the future to a degree that is does yeah okay so i've been asked that before so basically what i do is like in my everyday life i have you know interactions with people on a daily basis like i i coach a lot of people they want to be ruthless so they somehow come to me and um so they come to me and they're like make me less emotional so at that time i'm telling them exactly how i feel and what i do but in terms of if someone has wronged me that stays lodged in my head until it is taken care of so there was a group of 1200 women on reddit who were posting images of my they said i should get raped again they gave my address to the rest they would comment on every single thing that was wrong with me about my appearance which was wild stuff so when i found out certain people were in that group i realized that justice needs to be served so i intend to ruin one of their birthdays every single year so far i've ruined three years what have you done i sent a pig's head to her door i sent the police for a welfare check i sent a mariachi band to come at 6 a.m i sent the jehovah's witnesses and i will next time be sending the mormons well that's the worst one of all by far she was shocked by the pig on i'm not gonna lie you've said that oh sorry and and i don't know if you're going to believe me or not but i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie i'm not gonna lie but minnie makes a sec like a very specific pie for her old boss and let's just say there's fecal matter in there luckily it was outsourced because i couldn't do something like that but that was delivered to her house and i hope she ate it and this is one person yes and this was the leader of this reddit group yeah that was that you say was a attack on you of some kind exactly what was their issue with you uh i think it was just i don't know there was leaked uh video or some not video audio and it wasn't legitimate it was like just a string of my words put together from different clips and they're like oh she's such a bigot oh she's such a you know piece of shit all of that stuff what were they accusing you of having racism right okay yeah okay so and i was like and what's your heritage indian indian right yeah i was like i didn't say that like i've never said that interesting yeah and then also because sam had made some posts on twitter this is your husband yeah yeah yep he made posts on twitter about um virginia dufray and he was just making showing jeffrey epstein person yeah so he was showing some inconsistencies in the stories all and then they blame me for that so i was meant to be like the full guy or something i don't know like they decided i was the proxy i would be attacked constantly are they still around i mean we got the reddit thing taken down which is great but what else from an emotion standpoint is is interesting i'm aware that a lot of this to you must be like me talking about what it's like to be harry potter the wizard that it's very hypothetical right but i imagine that you've spent a good bit of time thinking about not just so that you can manipulate other people but so that you can function in the world at least remotely well what the difference is between your experience and how else what are the other big differences you think between sort of how you go through a day in terms of feeling things yeah emotions operating so most things i don't feel very heavily so if something happens and it's a great thing like i don't know doing a podcast with you i'll be like afterwards damn that was fun or like damn that's gonna be cool when it comes out um they'll last for about 20 minutes and then i'll see someone like say something annoying on instagram and i'll be like should this person get attacked later or not and then i'll sort of go through that um but recently i've found christianity through charlie kirk and that has radically changed a lot of what i do so yeah people don't really like hearing about religion or politics and i'm a conservative who has a lifelong conservative and i love charlie kirk and that kind of they don't like religion either what was that brought on by so when he passed i i loved charlie kirk so much prior to yeah yeah yeah i loved him so much like i loved everything he said i loved how kind he was i loved how he was he was like the true beacon of masculinity if there ever was one seems surprising that you would admire somebody who's kind given yeah he's the good person that i can't be and then when the when he was taken from the world i just realized there's no good in the world what was the lesson that you took from that well initially it was how cruel people are and like how disgusting they are and if i as a person have more of a morality than you it's saying something and so i saw these people just like mocking his death and like it became a trend on tiktok and i was like he was a fucking human being bro he's a human being he was 31 it just really pissed me off and so like i actually grieved him more than i've grieved anyone in my life including my family like my grandfather died in front of my eyes not the one who burned his daughter he died in front of my eyes and i was 10 years old so that no no emotion nothing the other grand grandparents die no emotion friends die no emotion but like for charlie kirk i was crying every single day made no sense is that strange is that a strange situation for you it is it's because i don't know if there's any other kind of like such strong masculinity that's not also like just nasty you know what i mean like the way he would talk about women like he would always be very gentle with women, like he wouldn't, um, he wouldn't yell at them he wouldn't do anything like he would be calm he would lead he would provide he would protect and so and he did it in such a way and we did we differ on some beliefs but we all of us differ on beliefs and your conversion to christianity has happened after charlie's passing yes so i started feeling the urge to read the bible again because my parents are christian and i purposely did not become christian so i read the bible properly like i threw a context and everything and i found orthodox christianity which has really spoken to me and i love that it's a hospital so they see it as a hospital and not a courtroom which is really nice because like when you've been called a bad person your entire life like you you kind of want someone who's like no you can be redeemed yes do you think you're a bad person no why because i use my skills to help people initially i did hurt a lot of people but eventually i built my platform and women who i've helped women escape domestic violence i've helped them heal from sexual trauma i've helped them like own their own lives and so like i just felt like that was a positive thing that i could do to offset the bad stuff and there might be a little bit of penance to be paid yeah by the sounds of the first couple of decades of life i'm interested in this pivot to christianity a little bit because one of the core tenets of that is to turn the other cheek that's what i'm having the biggest problem with as somebody who has problem with you've said that you love revenge yes why because i believe in an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth if you are ready and willing to make me feel like shit about something you should be prepared to feel the same back like recently i had some ugly girl comment on my video saying oh you're not 40 kilos you're more like 62 and you're like you like you're losing your attractiveness you need a bit of brain and i was like listen bitch i am like i am 40 kilos if you would like to watch the scale you can and then i was just like if you think that you should be making commentary i feel like you have not seen a mirror in a very very long time and so i have my best friends who will like go and sort of swarm as well so like if you're willing to try and like knock knock at me because i had an eating disorder growing up and that's also what happened in the group they were constantly trying to call me fat so that i would go back to an eating disorder yeah so fucking women i swear to god um and so yeah so i'm i'm telling her to go to the gym like you can see the fat rolls on her face and she like i am exactly 40 kilos what what is the most extreme length that you've gone through to get revenge on someone oh okay so there was a girl i did pageants with so she won a pageant and she went to the international and anyway so she came back we did miss world together and she was super arrogant and she was really really rude she'd get under my skin a lot so she would say like certain races shouldn't be able to compete certain people shouldn't be able to compete short girls shouldn't be able to compete and i was like all right this bit it's time for this bitch to learn a lesson so i deleted anything controversial that i said i screen recorded the whole thing um and then i sent it to every single girl that she had insulted i sent it to the pageant director who immediately kicked her out of the competition because she is she's a liability at that point so they throw her out and it's her last year to actually be in pageants because she's too old so she can't compete again and that's what i took the most satisfaction in if you're saying that someone like me shouldn't compete you will never compete and so yeah she she was completely taken out and then i decided to take an extra level um i reached out to miss venezuela and miss venezuela has millions of people who support her and let's luckily this this woman she was awful enough to let me know that she let miss venezuela sleep through her alarm and missed the preliminary finals and so i told her i'm like you know she purposely didn't let you go and then i think the entire country of venezuela that is in love with pageants turned on this girl and they were leaving so many hate comments for like months and she had to go private and then she she got a lawyer and let's just say she works in retail so it would have taken her hours and hours and hours and weeks to earn enough money to get a lawyer to send me a cease and desist letter and then she got a lawyer and let's just say she got a lawyer to which i responded lol because if she had actually anything against me if she had the means to sue me she would have done so she wouldn't have given me a cease and desist and this is because she said some mean words to you yeah and was making racist comments and stuff that's it yeah you managed to set the entire country of venezuela on yeah this person yeah okay have you been to jail no sir certainly some things you've done that could have been got you to go absolutely absolutely but people wouldn't believe it like people don't look at me like would would you think that i do anything that i do that you wouldn't and i'm generally quite smart like i tested 138 and i'm never testing again in case it's lower than that because i couldn't live with that shame it seems like with a few of the things that you've brought up um i am 40 kilos i promise uh my iq is 138 like i don't want to test it again in case it goes back um some sensitivity around people saying what's happening with your age what's whatever it feels like uh status and um renown competence reputation it feels like that that that's a core it is it is part of what it is that you desire is that right absolutely i think that is what comes from the narcissism as whereas like the aspd or the psychopathy is more the machine in my brain that allows me to slow down and do it in a way that doesn't like blow back at me so oh so you've got that's an interesting way to look at it that one is a one is an engine and the other is a brake pedal exactly exactly that's how i see it um i hate the narcissism i'm not gonna lie i wish i could just be just not worry about other people saying like thinking that they're better than me like i wish i could say that i wish i could actually be in a position where i don't care so much about looks status um but i feel like those are objective metrics that have been proven like if you're in a beauty pageant there's certain there's a certain level of beauty that you've attained if you do extremely well on your year 12 exams which i did then you have intelligence if you have a an actual quantifiable number of your iq that shows that you're not dumb so when someone says that those things aren't true or they'll accuse me of having a fake nose because it's small breast implants it's like that's my genetic superiority and you're trying to say that i'm a normal person who had to go pay for it and it pisses me off so much and that's why my psychiatrist was like we need to detach you from these things because it's gonna be really really bad when you do age like when and like my parents look really good yeah because it's coming yeah it will be coming but my parents how old are you i am 30 cool have you ever wanted to kill anything yes what people okay yeah how'd that go um not so well yet because i have a lot of people around me who would stop it from happening but i would plan it over a long period of time there are some people like in that snark group for example the reddit thing yeah yeah i would absolutely just skin them if i could like physically myself like katherine knight who's that uh she's an australian woman the to get um life in prison without parole because she ended up so she killed her boyfriend because he didn't want to get married and she stabbed him like a hundred and something times then she skinned him like a full skin suit and hung him up by the door and then she cut off his head and sorry um it was on the stove and she cut off his like meaty parts and cooked them and so she was gonna serve them to his children and that weren't her children presumably yeah right and so that was and then she took some benzos and fell asleep and tried to act like she had an overdose but um i feel like that's what they deserve some of these people for the hell that they put me through especially because i was dying in the maldives like i hadn't had a blood transfusion my hemoglobin was so low and my oxygen saturation was like i was like on the edge of dying and these bitches had the audacity to be planning this writing an open letter to kanika batra if you don't do this and this and this and this we're gonna destroy your life we're gonna go into every part of your comment section which they do we're gonna like send you horrific emails we're gonna try and make give you bad reviews on your book even though i know it's good even though most people i think i haven't gotten a single person saying it's bad and so it's like if you have that to treat me that way you don't deserve to be on this planet this episode is brought to you by whoop most people treat 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Right now you can get the brand new Whoop 5.0 and that 30 day free trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to join.whoop.com slash modern wisdom. That's join.whoop.com slash modern wisdom. It's so interesting. I'm noticing inside of me as you're talking the balance between the emotion of wanting to give you sympathy for going through that because that sounds horrendous being on the edge of dying in the Maldives and also like absolutely knowing that you didn't feel much other than the rage and the resentment and the bitterness. It's very strange. Obviously it's because you're explaining there's so much, uh, exposition going on. I'm like, why is feeling sympathy for somebody who doesn't feel guilt? It's very interesting. Uh, calculation equation to try and do in my head. Like I like that's, that's mean and horrible for anybody to go through, but also this person doesn't respond in the normal way to that. It's very, it's very interesting. And I'm, I'm noticing that coming up inside of me. That's cool. Um, okay. So you would kill somebody if you could get away with it, you think? Yes. Okay. I've heard you talk about freedom, like not wanting to risk your freedom as a big part of this. Is that the main sort of utilitarian reason that forensics, the likelihood. So if you had the skill to do it. Yeah. I mean, if I had the privilege of being able to do it, like Ted Bundy, I actually relate a lot to Ted Bundy, not for the killing stuff, not at all, but. He had the same sort of, like, I listened to the hours and hours of him talking and he has a lot of like word salads, but when he actually talks about his experiences, like when he, he didn't know how to talk to people and he didn't know how people would associate with each other. So he used to listen to talk back radio. So he could understand how actual conversations work and how they should be happening because obviously it wasn't happening naturally for him. And then he would talk about the same kind of depression that I have, where it's not. I mean, it's not like I found sadness at any point. It's just this feeling of like, I can't do anything. And it's like, you're just laying there flat, flat, just flat. There's nothing that can like lift you out of it. And so that's something I really related to like depression without the sadness. Yeah. Literally, literally it's depression without sadness. So what was it like when you first started listening to Ted Bundy talk? It was, that was the first thing. And then how he, he struggled to make friends because he couldn't understand why people found it off-putting by the things that he was doing. Like he was set like cages, he'd set up a trap in the forest. So he'd have a trap door and then there'd be like sticks and stuff holding it back. And so people would fall in and they'd hurt themselves because it'd be a bear trap. And he couldn't understand why that was bad and why people hated him for it. And I couldn't understand why people hated me for what I did because like, I, it wasn't something that I'd planned or anything. It was just, something that happened. And then also the way his family would treat him. Like they would call him evil when he was just a child. I don't think any child is inherently evil. So when like that really hit home, the fact that he had this white girlfriend, uh, Diane Edwards, as she's known now, um, how she dumped him. And he was just so angry about it because he had like, he built himself up to be this person who's at university who, you know, has achieved a fair bit. And the revenge that he had after that, like leading her on for a whole year and then planning a wedding. And then he just stopped writing to her completely. He stopped, he stopped communicating. She was frantic and she called him. She's like, why are you doing this? And he's like, I don't know what you're talking about and hung up on her and she never heard from him again. So I, I liked the idea of that as revenge, but also like how he would flip-flop at university. So do different degrees. Like I've done that. Um, he never really held a stable job. I've held stable jobs, but it's just like, I get bored within a month or two and then I'll be gone. It's different if I had like, you know, my own show and like, if I'm in conservative media, like for that, I've always been interested. And he went straight into politics. I went straight into politics on my 16th birthday. I joined my, the conservative party, which is the liberal party in Australia. I joined at 16. I was VP by 19. And so he was there to rub elbows with like more, I guess, wealthy people. Whereas I just did it because I have a lot of rage and I have a lot of like ability to scheme and plan things. And so in politics, you're rewarded for that. You're rewarded for any sort of brevity you have. Like I had a friend who backstabbed his mother. I won't go into it, but he backstabbed his own mother to be in the faction. So it's like where you thrive, your sadism can thrive without you actually going to prison. And so he utilized that as well. You wrote a book that had Ted in, right? Yes. Yes. That's, it was a fiction novel thing. That was fiction. It was in a female serial killer at the same time. It certainly seems like there are some analogies between the female protagonist and yourself. Yeah. People keep saying that. I'm like, no, she's way better than me. I'm more proficient at what she does. More proficient, more attractive, like richer. Would that not be the dream? Ideal version of me. Yeah. Yeah. No, because there's a lot of things that she does that I can't do. It's like the promiscuity. Promiscuity really disgusts me. Like it gives me a visceral reaction. I don't know why, but like, if I like, it's hard to see someone as a person, like if they're, you know, doing really vulgar things, I guess, because I grew up in such a conservative home that like that stuff is seen as very degenerate. I've got a video that I want you to react to. Sure. Let's get this up, Mark. Rodney Alcala. Don't say it like that. It may be the creepiest episode ever on The Dating Game, because this bachelor looking for love back in 1978 is actually a serial killer. I'm called The Banana and I look really good. No one had any idea that Rodney Alcala had already launched his killing spree when he appeared on the popular dating show. He was a real creepy guy, a real idiot. Jed Mills was bachelor number two and nearly 40 years later, he's still haunted by their encounter. This creep comes up and he puts his face practically in my face and he says, "I always get the girl." When I think about what he said, "I always get my girl," he kills him. That's what he's talking about. What's your best? Best time. The best time is at night. Nighttime. Despite Alcala's weird behavior on The Dating Game, the bachelorette chose him, but never went on the date because she reportedly found him creepy. And lucky for her, because Alcala would later be found guilty of seven murders. Investigators believe he may have actually killed up to 130 victims based on photos found on his property. Why did you respond that way when you saw him? He's just someone I find really fascinating because I was actually watching a documentary on him probably about a year ago, and it was actually crazy how much he managed to get away with. Also, his eyes are so demonic. Like, you can just see in them, there's nothing behind there. There's no soul in that at all. And you can see his contempt towards women. And if you'll notice, there's no Duchenne smile. What's that? So when it's a genuine smile, you'll see it up here as well. Like, there'll be crinkles. Like, his stays entirely here. And so he's not being genuine at all. Like, if you look at his eyes. Oh, wow. Yeah, there's nothing there. And if you actually muted the video and played it, you can see the micro-expressions on his face that he's getting, like, that delight from duping somebody. That's interesting. So your ability to convince somebody of something that you're not, that is itself. It's self-rewarding? I would say so, yeah. What's your dating history like? Always a serial monogamist. So I don't get into, like, I don't think that sexual activity or anything of that sort should be outside of a serious relationship. Ideally marriage, but serious relationship will do in this society. And so because of that, I primarily date, because I am bisexual. But I would sort of. Have a number of different people that I would go on dates with, and I would selectively cut them off, like, basically, I would trim it down until I had like. the person I wanted okay and then with them like you know it's it's fantastic to have somebody but I could never really lift the mask for any of them because like I couldn't be fully myself and it's very tiring when you have to wear this mask constantly and you know that there's going to be consequences if you don't what does not wearing the mask look like in a relationship I it can get pretty ugly um I I do still get a lot of rage and while I'm better at handling it I get very very frustrated at people around me for like not doing the right thing and backing me up immediately or doing things like that um I can't tell them honestly about things that I've done because it's just it it's too much to fathom like there's this um there's an article that I mentioned a lot the hidden suffering of a person who's been in a relationship for a long time and the suffering of the psychopath and it shows how lonely psychopaths get even if they're dating multiple people like they're like even say Ted that's that's why they believe that you know they believe that psychopaths can feel grief and love and whatnot and so the problem is is that loneliness and that wedge between you and other people can turn you into someone who commits violence and for me that wasn't what I what turned me but I knew I couldn't really like show people how I am outside of like the social things that they experience me at like they don't um like everyone's always like you don't seem like a psychopath and you don't seem like you have this and this and this and it's like well if I told you what I actually thought you'd probably think differently so that's sort of the issue I have and also like I get very very tired of people like if they're too high maintenance and I like they're constantly texting constantly calling it's like I don't know I don't know how to deal with it I don't know how to deal with it I don't why don't you get another job because if you would like you have so much time on your hands and you want to chat on the phone all day like I have things to do so it's like the clinginess I can't deal with but then again nonchalant I can't really deal with either it kind of has to be this happy balance and trust me it was very hard to find that I've heard that you say you have pure contempt for most partners after three months yes what was happening there I think I would start to see them as the real person that they were instead of the fantasy that they were and I think that's that I projected onto them and like I tend to put people on a pedestal sometimes and I also actually really love giving gifts and I love love bombing I do it naturally it's not it's not necessarily planned so I love doing all of that and then they get hooked on it and then they start getting really really obsessive they'll be like okay why aren't you calling me more are you seeing other people you must be seeing other people and so there's this like contempt like I have to handle this creature I have to like care about it and do good things for it and it's like it just becomes like pros versus cons but you want to do it on your terms because you want to love bomb them when you want to love bomb them exactly exactly but you don't want to do it when they want it no no it's that's partially I would say it but also also I would say that it's just overwhelming because my internal system is flat it's completely flat whereas people's spikes and it drops it's just overwhelming and it's like I don't have time for that I don't want to deal with that that's also why I would never actually um date or truly be friends with someone with borderline personality disorder because their abandonment issues are something severe like I had one who would text me literally like five times an hour who because I wasn't responding or my tone seemed wrong and it's just like like I have important things to do like she was threatening suicide every weekend so I had to be on the on the phone with emergency services telling them that she'd cut her wrists in a shallow manner and it was so frustrating she'd have all of these tears constantly and I was like I can't deal with this it's not my problem I just I get fed up well it kind of is your problem if you're in a relationship with someone right because you want them to be there for you when you need them your friend who stayed up until four in the morning you have an awful lot of respect and gratitude for her for doing that absolutely but if you're in a relationship with your partner who was either attempting to or threatening to take her own life that felt like that was burdensome to you well she did it every weekend that's the problem like if she did it once in six months okay but there was a lot of other things she had a drinking problem like she expected me to pay for everything and it's 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shipping and a 10% discount site-wide so get that 10% discount by going to the link in the description below or heading to gym.sh slash modern wisdom and using the code modern wisdom 10 at checkout that's gym.sh slash modern wisdom and modern wisdom 10 at checkout given the I find it hard to not feel straight contempt for somebody after three months and I think that's a really non-typical approach when it comes to scrutinizing partners and dating multiple people at least in the beginning at once given that why have you gotten into dating advice because other people need to learn science and manipulation especially I got started when it was like the red pill podcast and everyone was like trying to degrade women and make women humble women tell them that they're not special tell them that like there was the the advice was literally on par with the advice that I was given and I think that's a really good advice the infographs on domestic violence so the isolating the gaslighting like the triangulation making her feel crazy like I know how that works because I've done that before so I figured like you know I have all of these women who all of a sudden like me and they are having so many problems they like email me every single day and say oh I have this happening I have this happening please help me no one else can help me and so I guess because I come across as like ruthless sometimes or very friendly and other things and I think that's a really good advice sometimes they get the impression that I will care about what they're dealing with so do you only once I think only once like it was it was a bad situation it's interesting because you're obviously passionate about this topic but you still don't really care about the people that are going through it it's like you seem to care about the sort of symbolic injustice yes but not the human side exactly also I'm noticing throughout the conversation a lot of um male power over women is a big bugbear for you especially manipulative male power over women that that's something that shouldn't happen perhaps history abuse assault also maybe seeing dad with mum have you have you tried to sort of reverse and reverse engineer where this evangelism for not having men manipulate women comes from I mean you know everybody should be able to agree that that's bad but for you it has a different flavor to it absolutely so obviously with Indian culture it's very patriarchal um and so men have the final say in everything and when I was 13 my mum told me that it was time for me to learn how to cook I said sure is my brother learning too and she's like no you're a girl you do it and I was like fuck that I'm not gonna do this so I was just like no I'm not gonna play into this and then obviously I've seen the dynamic online I've been on the receiving end like I absolutely would annihilate anyone who wouldn't egg me like yeah so that would happen a lot like at a casino at one point a guy was like yeah you're you're hot but you're not that hot like you're not like I wouldn't go for someone like you normally I was like listen you're five foot six and fat no one wants you especially not me um but yeah I do feel that I I have had a mental soft spot for women going through abuse but everyone except the one man who raped me every other person who's ever been good to me has been a man and every person who's caused me stress or caused me any kind of struggle in life is always women women were in that group women are in my comment section like oh policing my tone women are the ones spreading rumors women are the problem isn't it interesting that most of your protection is of women against men but at least in your experience most of your good treatment has been from men and not from women literally men have always helped me men have been my dads loved me forever men on the street helped me parallel park so what do you think's going on there square that circle you know what's really odd is okay so I had this initially I didn't think men had feelings like I literally thought men don't have emotions so seriously I don't think men have feelings I don't think men have feelings I don't think men have feelings I don't think men that they're the ones who have assisted me since like day one and they're the ones who have supported me and been like loyal apart from my two female friends it's just I don't know why I had the advocacy for women and I don't know like I actually have quite a contempt for some of my audience because they're very leftist sort of feminists and they want me to be like on their terms about like gender and shit and I don't believe in that okay what are the best pieces of dating advice you've got for women so never sleep with them until they you're in a serious relationship because your body wasn't meant to be used by multiple people regularly and also your heart wasn't designed to break for so many people um I would always make sure that you are actually safe you you don't have like any concerns about red flags so you should like I put out some advice for you and I'll see you in the next video in terms of red flags like if he's pushing too soon in terms of he's flooding you with attention he's giving you everything you want he's so he's basically everything that you think of all through the day that's a bad thing that's really really bad you don't you don't want to you don't want a guy who is making you feel like that because he's depriving you of contact from other people who will pull you back into reality also um I tend to tell people that I'm not a woman not to say people's names under their actual name and to use a mildly insulting term to keep them there like to for their contact name and then also turn hand hand why let me get to it okay also turn off notifications on instagram and on uh any other platforms and also turn off your activity status so I do this because one dopamine comes in real quick from a person's attention from this person so you don't want to have the the life sucked out of you because you've slowly been developing this level of respect for this person like let me put it this way if I have a guy saved on my phone as hepatitis b how sad would I be if hepatitis b didn't text me back on time so women get really obsessed like with the instagram status because they'll be like okay this guy was active 90% of the time and I'm like okay I'm gonna be like okay I'm gonna be like okay I'm gonna be like nine minutes ago I sent him a message 10 hours ago so they start to feel like there's something wrong with them but if you have your notifications and your status off you don't know when he was online he doesn't know when you were online you're mysterious um so it's it's like it's a it's a place where you don't feel the hurt if you don't get a text from him so you're you're priming your body to be neutral instead of like emotionally connecting on to someone who you don't really know and very well and also I would say don't text all the time because that's creating more intimacy than is actually capable and real at the at the moment like the false intimacy that comes from texting for like weeks and weeks before meeting is ridiculous I understand maybe in early dating not falling too fast for someone that you don't trust is perhaps not hepatitis b but it's it's not a bad solution generally but eventually it's not a bad solution generally but eventually it's not a do you advise women to completely remove their mask as well yes so I would say to women until you are engaged you're single and you should you should maintain you know your body you shouldn't be out sleeping with people don't date five people and sleep with them that's not where we're at um and so that's kind of where I go to tell women and then so another thing with the orthodox church it tells you that um marriage is when you become a martyr for each other and I think if there's no investment in you first you don't need to be a martyr for anybody like but you're also concerned about somebody investing in you too much first well yeah because that's love bombing but you just said that you'd like to love bomb people early on in a relationship I know you do I do yeah but so it's okay for you to do it but it's worrying if somebody it's a red flag if a guy does it for a girl it's worrying both ways because there's plenty of female psychopaths it's just don't really hear about them so you would be saying to if you were advising the guys that you were dating if there was two of you yeah and you saw you behaving the way that you do with guys what do you think you would advise the guys so basically an antidote to someone like me what would you say would you be that's a red flag I'd be worried about this I would tell them which red flags are there and I do have men that I coach because like I've yeah another thing that I want to say about how I discovered how much men help like I went to a party with my husband and it was all his like youthful friends and I was they were talking about their girlfriends and whatnot and then they said that they would be devastated if they cheated on them and I thought men are naturally like they don't have that emotion and like they wouldn't care about cheating on someone and saying the guy saying he couldn't live with himself if he'd done it yeah if he'd done it and it's like okay man maybe they're not so bad and then I went to Europe by myself and every single time it was a European man who would help me get my bag who would get it off the um the the conveyor belt um and they would get me like free meals and stuff and I know the intention behind some of that but some of it was genuinely just helping all the gentlemen or whatever yeah like and even like Russian guys like Russia there was like a lot of these airports that have like the stairs going up and down for the tarmac and so I had to lug my suitcases up there and it was so annoying and this Russian guy he just grabbed my suitcase took it went across the tarmac went up the stairs to the plane put it over my head and just walked away and I was like gentlemen what's the story about you and your husband okay so we met when I was doing Miss Universe New Zealand and I went on a date with him which was meant to be a double date with my friend and that guy bailed so it was just like him with two Miss Universe girls and he got really really nervous beforehand but we just hit it off so fast so we were talking about politics like we have the same belief system I didn't have to lie and say I was like a leftist for a leftist person so I was he was a genuine conservative I'm a genuine conservative he was like he was consistent with his effort and he was such a cheapskate at that time so if he he went out of his way to go buy new clothes to see me and I appreciate that I appreciate putting in like putting in time and effort for somebody because that's also what I will do if I truly find interest in somebody I will dress how they like I will be you know make sure I'm in their corner always but he was fantastic um we had a couple of dates before I had to go back to Australia and then I flew him to Australia with my money and he never left so we kind of moved in together he moved into my parents' house which was pretty taboo at the time but I mean they weren't too angry because they they saw that he was genuine and after three months I didn't feel content and I was like I'm gonna go back to Australia and I'm gonna go back to Australia and I was like I'm gonna go back to Australia and I was like I'm gonna go back I felt happy like I felt open like I can actually talk about things what was the difference I think because he's so calm like he's this anchor that I've never really had outside of my father and he is one of the best men I've ever known like he doesn't even eat if I haven't eaten and he is like he's known as floor guy because when I go to transfusions he sleeps on the floor with me while I'm getting transfused and like there's not a lot of people who would go to those lengths like like the way he sponsored my Europe trip like he was working so hard and he does so much for me he does so much for our like fur babies and he has the values that I've always really appreciated is this the first time are you in love is that yes right is this the first time you felt that I don't know there's one before but it wasn't the same this is like this is something that can endure I didn't think that one could endure the first one is it difficult being in a relationship you mentioned uh if somebody says something gets on my nerves annoys me agitates me if they're doing something wrong if they make me feel a certain way negative too much push back if I kind of don't get what I want but in relationships it's really important to have that push and pull because you don't always know what's right for you and if it's somebody off the street or someone you have no loyalty with that kind of doesn't matter but if it's your partner it's really important for them to push you into place to show you the blind spots a lot of those blind spots are going to be uncomfortable yeah like if you do something say hey you're being an asshole and that's what he says but why is is that not are you is there a tension inside of you now you've got this this person you've got the loyalty thing but you've also got this very fundamental physics inside of your system that you've had for far longer than him yes do those two things clash they do clash a lot um the thing is with him is that I see everything that he does for me and I also give him grace because around him I don't have to wear a mask so I can't like of course he he causes agitation once in France I was like you you like when he was sleeping I was like you snore like a fucking chainsaw and it was pissing me off and then I was trying to learn French on Duolingo and he kept like being annoyed when the bell went off when I got something correct and so I got really angry at him. But the way I sort of handled the relationship with him is that we keep things pretty fresh. We change things around a lot because I don't like monotony. What does that look like? So we, like, travel to different places. We were involved with, like, going through the Epstein files. We were onto that well before. It was, like, being talked by the DOJ. And so we went there. We met up with Jeffrey's brother, Mark, who was nothing like Jeffrey. He's a great guy, great, amazing guy. And so we get into, like, weird places. Like, together we've been a force to be reckoned with. Alone I can be sort of, like, an explosive that can go off at certain times or it could be, like, an ice block that melts over time. But with him he kind of will rein me in and he can also do it in a way that I don't find disrespectful. And I've had my fights with him. I mean, there was one time at the pool I went with my friend Marie who had an Asian background. And this white lady was like, oh, you two can't swim properly. And I was like, I've been swimming here every single day for, like, two years, so you can shut the fuck up. And so my husband, he didn't stand up for me there because he's not a confrontational person. And so I threatened to break up because I was like, I can't deal with someone who won't stand up for me because I'm a very confrontational person. If someone has a problem with me and they talk shit about me, I'll go directly to them. So that was sort of a problem we had at the start. And he was a little bit worried about, like, you know, what psychopathy is and all of that. I imagine he might have had a few questions. Yes, yes. Yeah, that's fair. In other news, have you ever noticed how some websites make it ridiculously easy to buy while some feel infinitely harder? Back in my day, I had to walk 10 miles to the local store. Aren't you younger than me? Yeah, but my dad got a DUI. Anyway, the reality is, most businesses just get the website wrong. And if your setup is messy, you lose a ton of sales, which is why I'm such a massive fan of Shopify. They power 10% of all e-commerce in the United States, including brands like Gymshark, Skims, Allo, and Nutanix. Because when it comes to converting browsers into buyers, they are best in class. Their checkout's 36% better on average compared to other platforms. And with ShopPay, it can boost conversions by 50%. So upgrade your business and get the exact same checkout that we use every day. You can sign up for a free trial period by going to the link in the description below or heading to Shopify.com slash Modern Wisdom. That's Shopify.com slash Modern Wisdom. In 2021, you said that you were scared of becoming an abuser. Yes. Today, your slogan on your website is, stop being the victim, start being the villain. See, I don't. What happened to the woman who was frightened of becoming abusive? Well, I don't want to be abusive to people I know. I don't know what other shit people have done. Like, if you're dealing with a guy who's, like, ruined your life, why shouldn't you be abusive in return? But I also must say that he runs my website, so it's not. It's his copy, not yours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not mine. Interesting. Yeah, I think, you know, looking at a lot of the dating advice that's in your book, some of the stuff that's on the website, it does feel quite manipulative. Is that fair to say? I think it is fair, yeah. Right. Do you think that teaching women manipulative. dating tactics could cause them to introduce toxic games into actually healthy relationships? I try to avoid that, especially with my coaching clients. I tell them where ruthlessness should begin and where it should end. And it should definitely end when you're in a secure relationship. You don't want to damage that in any way, shape, or form. So I value people's relationships if they are good for them. But if some guy is, like, making you feel like shit, saying that he's got better options, and he's treating you like you're nothing, like you're a speck of dust, then it's more than fair for me to tell them, like, if you want to get revenge or if you want to feel in power again, like, if you want to be in power again, then you can use these methods. So you can have the benefits of psychopathy without all the negatives of psychopathy. What are some of the methods? So the methods of. Getting revenge on somebody or of regaining power, especially. Yes. Early in a relationship, I suppose. So, basically, I've had a lot of women who, like, they, I don't know, slept with a guy for a while, and they don't know how to make him commit. And they don't want to give him up. And so they'll book coaching calls with me, not take my advice. Because they're weak. Women are weak. And so it pisses me off. But I still tell them, like, this is what you need to do in terms of methods. Like, if he thinks he's better than you, show him your other options. Like, not directly. Because men aren't stupid. Men know when things are happening. So don't rub it in his face. Just let him know about it. Just let him know you've got options and you're going to put up with the shit. I also tell them to have the shit tests, right? The shit tests are important because you need to see what he will do under different circumstances before you commit to him. And I think men should be able to do that as well. I just don't like the advice that, say, Fresh and Fit give of, like, making a woman feel. feel like she's garbage so that she's, like, lowered her self-esteem to be with you. So that's not really what I tell people to do at all. It sounds like some of the bits of advice that I've seen from you get perilously close to that. You know, the push and pull, that you're supposed to love-bomb him and then withdraw it, that you should find out what makes him anxious and vulnerable and then know how to push him and push those buttons in order to make him need you a lot. That, to me, feels just like an inversion of some of the worst bits of dating advice that have come from the other side of the fence. Okay, so I feel like women can't do as much damage as men most of the time. There are some exceptions to that, of course. And I also know that women are very moderate, so they're going to pull back what I say and they're going to not do that because they just can't. Like, I have proven time and time again that they can't. They want to live vicariously through me, but they cannot carry that out. But if they can carry it out to a point where they don't feel unstable, that's where you need to be. So I know their limitations. I know that if I put them here to a certain extent and they obviously, you know, will not go to that level, they will not go to that line. They will be well before that line. It's kind of like when in drama school when they're like, bring out all your energy and then draw it back in. So are there going to be a couple of women who become genuinely abusive? Potentially, but I am not giving them any materials myself. Like, if they choose to harm someone, that's not my fault. They can choose to take the advice in a book in general, or they could not. If Andrew Tate published your book with the pronouns reversed, how do you think he'd describe it? Pretty much his, like, it would be his ticket to fame. Except without sex trafficking. When it comes to dating advice, though, a lot of what's being put across, like, it seems like you really stand in opposition to men that are manipulating women, to men that are trying to use dopamine and psychology in an attempt to create a need that maybe isn't there, create a power differential, create a degree of dependency. Yeah. You're saying that women, men don't feel the impact of that. In the same way that women do. Yes. And that women can't deploy the power of that in the same way that men can. Exactly. Maybe. I would say women are interpersonally much more deft than men are, and much more effective. Women are better lying detectors. They're also better liars. They are better at venting and gossip. That's why the movie Mean Girls was made about, it wasn't mean boys, it was mean girls. I understand what you mean that empathy may be a little bit higher in women on average. Extremely. But something tells me that those aren't the sorts of women that are going to be seeking out your content. So I wonder whether or not we're putting a performance-enhancing drug on top of women who already maybe have this disposition, and you've identified yourself. There's, wow, I didn't know that men would feel guilt if they cheated on their partner. Wow, I didn't know that men would feel, you know, there might be another, wow, I didn't know that men would feel guilt if they cheated on their partner. I didn't know that men actually might be able to feel pain of being ghosted or. Do they? Men feeling the pain of being ghosted. Yeah. Absolutely. Actually, it's a thing. I think if a guy is, look, there's certainly men who understand that applying an awful lot of romantic pressure early in a relationship can get a woman to fall for them, but what they're doing is trying to emulate the realness of that. Yes. There have to be men that are just doing the realness thing, right? Not everybody is trying to play the game, or else the signal wouldn't work. But the thing is, men are far more likely to be Machiavellian, far more likely. It's like 1 in 20 for men. It's like 1 in 100 for women. Okay, so you're talking about 5% versus 95%. Yeah, but those 5% get around. That's true. That's a fair point. You know, you're right that the men that. the sociosec, few at the top now it's interesting it's actually the socio-sexual few men with the socio-sexual few women yes doesn't tend to be the guys that are like the 80 20 thing doesn't seem to really be that true anymore i understand what you mean i understand why why it's important for people to understand how manipulation works i think what's dangerous is when you start to teach people to do it in reverse that's where you what you do is you create the incentive to to damage people who are trying to do things legitimately legitimately so the the romance the love bombing the care the attention the affection it might just be a guy who's like i found my fucking woman i found my woman and i can't stop thinking about her i'm gonna do the flowers thing i'm gonna send her the messages you know the disney princess romance movie thing the exact rom-com stuff that i think a lot of women want and what i worry is that those women become skeptical of the motivations of guys doing things with all of the legitimacy that they wanted and everything is seen through what that's love bombing you know if he's texting you three times in an hour that's that's that's too much or if you get flowers after the first because it's if you don't ring a girl that would be bad but if you got flowers the next day that would be too much it's like well i don't know maybe he's just like oh my god that was the greatest night of my life i found my wife he's telling all of his friends or maybe he's a fuck boy that you're just on the roster you're in the whatsapp broadcast list and working out the difference between those two i i worry that there might be some women who basically lose the person who was doing the thing they really wanted because they're seeing it as a tactic as opposed to an emotion does that make sense that's the purpose of shit tests so you ask them to go slightly inconveniently out of their way to help you in some way so i'm not saying you have to help move her house or something if she's moving house you have to go handle all that but it's like do you mind picking this up on your way here do you mind meeting me here even though it's a little bit further from you do you mind it's the utility stuff because a man who loves you or cares about you or wants to genuinely be with this woman and he's like oh my god i love her so much this is fantastic i've met my woman they're not gonna have a problem with that so you're looking for effort exactly yeah there's a words mean nothing there's a line from matthew hussey which is invest in people based on how much they invest in you exactly and that is for him especially softly softly matthew hussey like quasi sociopathic right because it's to do with the transactions to do with the as long as you show up for me i look i i don't disagree with also realistically how many men are gonna actually take you to paris later that night they promise you in the morning and coffee how many are they gonna actually take you to paris that evening i guess it depends how good the sex is tell me tell me how many men are gonna actually take you to paris that evening tell me in the past how you've dealt with breakups okay um so i broke up with i tend to accidentally break up with guys on their birthdays um so one guy i broke up with him and he was like he drove to my house and he was sitting outside he was crying and he was texting me constantly please come out please come out please come out on his birthday on his birthday i didn't know because i didn't ask so um i was like i'm not coming out i'm not interested i'm done please come out please come out please leave and if you don't leave like i'm not gonna come out regardless it's late at night so i just i was watching him cry in the car how did you feel when you were watching him crying i think i laughed a little bit and then eventually got really pathetic so i just closed the blinds um other people i tend to be as gentle as i can or i tend to just move very slowly away so i'll be less communication there'll be less less effort from me there'll be less prioritization like not clean cut you don't just say sometimes i do sometimes i'm just like okay we have we're incompatible in this and this and this and these are things that we cannot overcome so we just need to handle it and so i've dealt with all kinds of like breakups with people so i think the most effective is generally fading away the most effective way to deal with breakups is to break up with somebody yeah because the ones that i tell them that we can't work out they're always like oh no i can do this and i can do that and i can do this and we can make it work it's like i don't want you to and they don't take that as a final answer even i don't want you to isn't taken as a final answer yeah that's happened to me plenty of times rather than giving justifications have in the past did you try saying i don't want to be in this relationship anymore and not give a justification well once i called a guy i told him he was getting fat that's still a justification i don't want to be in this relationship anymore no i would not do that why i don't know i've just not been a person like that i wonder i wonder whether there's something about that utilitarian thing coming through again but well there needs to be a ledger of some kind i have to have a justification for this but that's actually needing to have a justification for it is actually quite a human thing so it's like letting them know that something exists not necessarily them actually doing it so if like so i'll set up an arbitrary boundary of like don't take some for this time and then they start doing it regularly and i'm like okay like i've given you this and like my actual motivation would be completely different to how i presented you just don't want to be in the relationship but you made this rule interesting let's say that you had neurotypical children yes would you encourage them to do that date a sociopath yes why because if you earn like a real a real sociopath real psychopath if they are genuinely on your team you have someone who is willing to harm people for you they are ride or die for you they're in your corner they're choosing to love you every single day they're not a slave to their emotions and the brain chemicals they are making an effort to be there for you and dr k he's from healthy gamer gg um he even spoke on this he said people who are capable of these heinous things have chosen to be on your side and they will carry out the instrumental damage to other people for you and they will be your shield so i think there's absolutely like first you vet the crap out of them vet them vet them vet them even so sociopath psychopath the mask slips regardless if you if i hung out with you for a week it would slip fully you would see it no matter how hard i try it will slip how long because you know you can hold together a two-hour podcast relatively well when does it begin to get difficult a couple of days in a weekend a couple of weeks probably a week a week you'll start seeing what does that look like what to start seeing you start seeing like less enthusiastic responses you'd see like less courteousness although more callous more you know trying to cater to somebody it would be you know the true self coming out do you think some men get turned on at the idea of being manipulated yeah they do they come into my dms regularly they're like asking me if i can manipulate them they'll give me money for it and it's like pay pig stuff but manipulate pig stuff yeah yeah pay pigs and then there's like submissive men especially they'll come up to me and they'll be like oh i find you so attractive or i love that you could like make me do anything and you say the most vile things and still are so hot and so i get that a lot and i find it really repulsive because i don't anything that's linked i guess to sexual gratification is something i find really dirty casually yeah casually and that's exactly what they're wanting i mean they're getting off on it i'm like it does nothing for me interesting i had a friend in university who was doing financial fin dom financial dominate dominate tricking and this guy would send her i didn't realize how it worked it's fucking gnarly this guy would send her his pay packet at the start of every week or at the start of every month and she would drip feed him 50p one pound one pound 50 daily and he would have to beg and she would have this all of these videos and stuff like that and she would send him a pay packet and he would send stuff and it was a consensual unconsensual relationship like because the whole premise was i need you to send me more no i won't but then at the start of each month she would get his entire pay packet and there was a time when the car was out of gas and he was married with kids the car was out of gas and he needed to drive to work and she just sent him 50p and said get the bus instead and he said that can't even get me there and she said we'll just walk and you go okay at what point does this weird kind of self mistreatment kind of like financial self-harm that you're legitimating somebody else doing on your behalf yeah ethically i still have no idea that was it's like self 15 fucking years ago and i still don't know how i feel about it yeah um but it's strange that some people can get off sexually with that and what you're around is the fact that they're feeling sexual even if you don't feel it. yeah i don't know that's very interesting i don't like the other feeling of them thinking they can i guess sexually have power steal pleasure in a way yeah exactly i think it's interesting that you're you're sort of stopping you've got this disconcerting sensation around men wanting to be manipulated by you i i feel like part of the status issue as well is it's such a lowering of them in comparison to you it seems like pity uh is a little bit of an element in here as well is that fair so i've had a lot of guys come up to me on tinder or whatever and say you're too good for me and there's something really disgusting in that for me it's like either he's trying to get me to like compliment him to the point where he's at the status where he believes me to be or he wants me to abandon my own self and you know it's a game or it's low self-worth exactly exactly and so when they say that i used like when they said it before i used to be like okay uh let me just respond with something nice and then i realized most of them are really terrible people and if you're automatically disqualifying yourself then like i have no reason to show any interest in you and i don't find it attractive that you don't have any self-respect it's just it's something that's icky i don't like weakness and i don't like um empathetic sort of situations like that what are some of the things that you don't understand about yourself why i have so many hypocritical positions on things um why i've cultivated an audience that isn't anything like me like i'm a conservative i want a conservative base i want to be able to talk about politics i want to be able to talk about things that i care about and my audience is capturing me in this place where i have to pretend to care about their ridiculous and quite often degrading and degenerate behavior like i've cultivated this and it pisses me off and then anything with psychopathy it brings more women more crazy women in my inbox and it's like it's great if they're buying my book okay it's great if they're booking coaching sessions but i hate them so it's like this this is like duality of it and it's like you either provide me use or you don't and that's kind of a position i have i also don't know why i support women in general when women have caused me the most harm out of everyone uh i also feel like how i expect empathy and stuff from other people even though i can't reciprocate um the weirdest thing about me is like i would say oh the weirdest thing just go on yeah the weirdest thing about me is that um i get really confused when people don't like me like i will like i'm saying people i don't even know and they're in relationships with other people who are not me like it makes no sense it's like i i know logically they don't know i exist right but it's like how can someone be in a relationship with someone who is not me is that the grandiosity i think it is i think that's narcissism narcissism but yeah like a really solid example of what a psychopath or alleged psychopath is is candace ellen's so over time she drip feeds her audience like little bits of oh here's more information about charlie's death even though it's got nothing to do with charlie and she's just trying to get views that's that's a psychopath's play in and how uh how can someone detect if another person's a sociopath or a psychopath first the eyes then you could do a simple test with the yawned hair smile test we don't yawn when you yawn we don't smile laughing isn't contagious for us it will generally mirror what you your positions are tilted head means more like they like we're looking like we're actually trying to understand everything you're saying remembering your name all of those things that are very very specific uh compliments on obscure things like i i like people's noses and so like i think you have a nice nose and i think there's like rob low is my ideal because he's got like the perfect nose and i think you have a nice nose and i think there's like rob low is my ideal most tiny little nose so things like that like there's the peculiarities of psychopaths um and another thing that you would notice is so we have weird justifications in our head for things and so you know btk dennis raider no he wouldn't he was a serial killer uh buying torture kill okay yeah he wouldn't rape the women because that he killed because he said that would be cheating on his wife uh what's it ed ed kemper was like yeah i killed her but i never hit her so it's like there's this weird little things that you'll notice that are off and there are you'll tell that there's if you can study people's faces there'll be little microaggressions like usually when you lie and get away with it there's like a little bit of a smile coming up like and like i don't know what the direct term for it is but that's really really something you'll see and also with actions you'll see psychopaths will help you only when you're in a situation where you're in a situation where you're in a situation where it's useful for them generally but if they are helping you in times that you are offering nothing in return then you've made it into sort of a successful relationship with a psychopath who do you think some of the most famous sociopaths in the world out there at the moment are kenda sullens um justin trudeau uh gavin newsom jd vance uh who else jd but not trump not trump trump's an arc he's a narcissist okay yeah uh who else is there are so many people kevin spacey please don't kill me kevin spacey they all seem to go i think you're the wrong gender for kevin true true uh who else um angelina jolly i think angelina's a yeah yeah sociopath i think the front of being an ambassador for charities and not speaking out for the jews and not actually acknowledging that women were raped and tortured on the 7th of october in 2023 that's really hypocritical she loves stealing other people's man like she she literally breaks up relationships on like a regular basis she seems to use people a lot for what they have and nothing that she does seems like it is genuine affection but also also mark zuckerberg he's like a lizard you can see he doesn't blink that's something you should so the the mark zuckerberg thing that was before he had his sartorial revamp as soon as he started wearing chains all of that stuff went away yeah i look i've spent time i've spent time with mark and i was like okay i'm gonna fucking lock in i'm gonna lock in on this guy and i'm gonna check like is there a second set of eyelids or whatever i'm not here to fucking shill for matter or zuck at all but like i'm gonna lock in on this guy and i'm gonna check like he is outstandingly normal like outstandingly normal uh i watched him and joker willink roll bjj together i don't know i i looked i looked real close and i you really didn't notice anything i'm pretty good at reading people really yeah yeah i'm pretty good at reading people and i really i didn't see anything at all a nice guy around his family nice guy around his kids but you don't know behind closed doors and stuff like that i'm pretty good at reading people and i really didn't see anything at all a nice guy around his family nice guy around his kids but you know it's true but i you know it was like two or three days watching him interact with staff watching him interact with definitely you know a real sort of high thinking airy distracted sort of kind of guy but like who the fuck is managed to build businesses like that and doesn't have that skill i don't know hey i'm not the i'm not the sociopath whisperer here um ariana grande is a prolific home record oh yes i was going to say ariana as well but do you think can someone be a home record without being a in the most malicious way possible like that's her goal is to break up the relationship it's not that she's just madly in love with this why would that be why would that be something useful or interesting the breaking up there's joy in watching the pain like that's i guess a side of sadism that but you haven't talked about that we haven't talked about the sadism thing you've talked about wanting to get revenge on people that some girl says something that's mean and then you do something the sadism side seems to have fallen away a little bit well i haven't really gone into detail well let's go into detail tell me about the sadism part of it so i purpose there's a lot of people that i purposely like i tell them that i like them and whatnot i like show them vulnerability so that they'll show me theirs and then i actually enjoy watching them suffer i'll give them incorrect advice so that i know that they are not not my clients but literally i will lead them astray i know exactly how to turn them i know exactly how they're mine works i can make them or i can break them and seeing someone begging you to see them and like being a fully grown man crying there's a satisfaction in that there's a lot of satisfaction what's the sensation it's thrill it's like a thrill it's like adrenaline it's like oh my god look at what he's willing to do for me like power the power yeah so someone submitting i guess and that's something i like outside of i guess sexual relationships or romantic relationships i don't really like like submissive men, I think they're disgusting. But I'm saying in terms of seeing emotional pain, that is something that I enjoy. I write the most, I think, funny insults. And I'm like, you have less integrity than Reinhard Heydrich, so let's not get into that. But there's a certain sort of suffering where you leave an emotional gap for them that they desperately need closure from you. And so they'll run in circles trying to please you, trying to get that out of you. And I will never give that person closure because I know then I'll have control over them for the rest of their lives. People try to get over it, but I've had people from nine years ago tell me that they're having dreams about me. And so I feel like to a level it's working. And there's also with the physical sadism, it's more something in childhood. I would enjoy watching them get injured. I would enjoy watching them bleed, I guess. I would enjoy pushing her off the stool because every single day she had a new bruise. But now I think because I guess there's an element of being charged as an adult for crimes like that or for fraud. If I start stealing credit cards again, if I see people like, for example, when I stole a credit card from a girl's wallet at university, I went and I was comforting her. What? She was like, someone went on a shopping spree with my card. And I was like, that is so awful. People are despicable. People are really bad. I was like hugging her. Meanwhile, I was spending all her money. So there was that kind of delight in like watching her do that. And then, you know, the girl that I ruined, the pageant one, there was so much like joy in seeing her like go into a level of depression that seemed unbearable. Because her depression is not like my depression. I don't think it is. So seeing that struggle. That one felt righteous though. It's righteous. It feels like those. Did the girl with the credit card do anything? No, she canceled the card. I mean, did she do anything to justify the stealing of the card? No, I just wanted to. So I can see this is where for me the real discomfort comes in, which is if you do something to someone and you get an outsized piece of revenge, horrible. Very painful. But at least in the equation of normal human psychology, you can understand it. It's when it's senseless. There's no justifiable reason. There's no understandable explanation for why this thing happened. That to me is where I go, holy fuck. Because I think the reason it feels that way is there's no control. That if you decide to poke the bear too many, one too many times and it hits you. Okay. At least if I don't poke a bear, I'm not going to get hit. Whereas if I'm just some girl who didn't do anything, didn't try to say something mean to you at Miss Universe, and then the country of Venezuela comes after me, but I was just some girl that had a handbag and there was a card there and now it's gone. And then I'm being manipulated into thinking that I've got a friend and the friend's actually spending all my money. And that feels a bit different. Yes, yes. And that's why I don't do that anymore. But maybe there's something in the subconscious level that I didn't know what looked. I had a. There's a reason for it, but nothing comes to mind. Could have been jealous of her, could have been something else. Could have been anything really. Do you ever wish that you could feel normal emotions and care for people like a typical human? I feel like I already do that for people who are worthy of it. Like I don't do it for like, what am I going to get out of being kind to someone who's not going to like support me? She's not going to be in my corner when I need them. It's very, um, it's just time consuming to care for many, many people. And sometimes do I wish I could be, not be behind a glass wall? Sure. It's lonely sometimes it is, and people don't realize that people don't realize how hard it is to actually deal with this disorder and people try to fake it and they want it. And it's like, it's actual hell. Like you never actually feel like a full, you know, functioning person. I feel like I didn't really grow up either. Like I talked to friends that I. I've, you know, I haven't talked to them in years and they will have like children and they're doing all of this and I'm still in the same mindset and it's like, it's really frustrating, even though I've achieved quite a lot since then. Like, uh, like, you know, I was on my dream show the other day on Sean Hannity because I used to watch him with my dad when I was little. And so that was like amazing. And I do all of that stuff and I've, you know, been at the trials of Ghislaine Maxwell. Like I've, I've done all of this stuff. I was. Literally in her bathtub to get a photo, um, uh, well, she wasn't there, she was in prison, so her house was up for sale. So it was like the perfect time to go in and get evidence. You treated it like a museum. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. Yeah. I was just trying to see like the logistics of that bathtub and how many people it could fit because Virginia Dufresne and, uh, was saying that Prince Andrew had raped her in that bathtub. And. So I was just trying to see if that like, you know, panned out. What did you discover? I could barely fit. I'm five foot. As far as I know, Prince, Prince Andrew is six foot and Virginia was five, eight. So if I struggled in there, I'd. That feels like a flimsy bathtub for somebody that's got a lot of money. Uh, her house. Did you judge her? Yeah. Her house is trash, but it's in Kensington. So it's like. Expensive postcard. Yeah, exactly. So I understand about. I think I've got normal emotions. I think I do have emotions for the people that I care about. Do you know the difference between a local Maxima and global Maxima? Yes. Cool. So you can only optimize the things that you know. Exactly. Stuff that you don't know, you can't optimize for, and sometimes you're stuck inside of a local Maxima. There might be a higher high or more returns that you can get by trying a different approach, but if you don't know the approach, you're constrained by what you know. Yes. I'm wondering, I'm trying to. Give you a very utilitarian justification for perhaps broadening that, um, that it does make sense to do things for people, even if you were looking at it totally sterilely, apart from the fact it's good and pro-social and rah, rah, rah. It makes sense to do things for people that you can't see a direct return from, especially if they're different on new things, because you don't know what you don't know and you don't fully understand how that repercussion could come back around. Many times you talked about somebody from nine years ago that you've forgotten about is still being affected by you. You might not have known nine years ago that that would be the case. So you had a local Maxima there, and there's a global Maxima that's higher by doing something you didn't know about. The same thing can happen in the positive way too. You go, ha, I'm just going to, you know, I'm just going to do this thing for a friend and maybe they'd pay me back, maybe they don't. And then something happens, the return that comes back around from this, even if you couldn't have done the calculus, ends up being unbelievably positive for you in your life. So I wonder whether you're going to slowly accumulate more of these algorithms where you go, ha, that's an, because what you're doing basically is a very slow walk of pro-social human evolution just inside of one person. Yeah. Like you're having to. You're having to learn it step by step by step, as opposed to being bootloaded with the source code that most of us have got. Absolutely. And I'm, what I'm interested in is first off, if you make it to the end of life without getting into some like real, real trouble, but secondly, how far along that you get, it's like how many human, normal human behaviors are you going to learn psychologically through deliberate practice? And because you said. You said before you had, uh, physical, um, and like criminal tendencies more. So they became a little bit more domesticated. Okay. Now I've got friends. Okay. Now I've got a partner. Okay. Now I've got, now I've got, now I've got responsibility. Exactly. And you go, okay, how far along are you going to get through life? I think that's kind of, that's actually a great question. So I think that like the Christianity really helped and Charlie Kirk really helped get me there. It was the fact that, you know, he, he would say like, do one. Good thing every day for somebody. And the thing is, I am, I love showering people with gifts and I love like taking care of them. Even if I know that I, they could pay me back maybe, but there's just like, I just like that. So sometimes like with the love bombing, sometimes it's like, I'm genuinely excited. Because I'm so flat that things will sort of, I need things to happen to actually feel anything, but in terms of actually developing pro social behaviors and learning from other people. I feel like I'm doing that. I feel like I'm doing that on a regular basis. I feel like the, uh, the traditions and the authority of the Orthodox church is helping me like being, because I actually love hierarchies. I love hierarchies. I love. Presumably if you're quite high up them. Um, but the thing is, it's like, there's this discipline that it teaches you that I don't have and I want to learn it. So you have to stand for two hours. Yeah. Yeah. You have to stand for two hours. Um, and then you have to, you know, for the service, there's no, you don't sit down, there's no pews, um, you have to fast Wednesdays and Fridays. That's a, that's a way to reduce gluttony, um, and that the church is a hospital. So if you're sick or if you've committed sins, like what I have, they don't treat you like a criminal. help at a hospital um and the priest they don't judge you like so it seems it seems to me that the forgiveness element yes is a big part of that but how is it that you're learning the value of forgiveness for you but not applying that to other people if this is now the new thing which is one of the biggest life changes that you've gone through i would assume okay i'm trying receive i am trying to be more like forgiving to people like to pray it's hard because my priest says if you can't pray for them just pray for yourself and like you have a less hatred for them until you are at a point where you can pray for them and i just feel really connected to them because like i love the advice that they give i love that it's like a spiritual father so i'm like my natural father i've got a spiritual father who i can pray for i can run decisions by if they're like you know something that would be harmful to other people like i like having that as a sort of restriction and i like the stability of the church it hasn't changed in 2 000 years so there's like there's this sense of traditional circumstances traditional like values that i had in my home um i don't think that that necessarily i can do everything a normal human can do like we love in our own way we have care for people in our own way it's just a lot of people don't make the cut unfortunately and i'm trying to get to that stage where i'm able to do far more good than bad and i feel like i'm well on my way to that i've heard that you're some special type soprano as well the coloratura can i hear what that sounds like i can't do that no nobody can kanika batra ladies and gentlemen uh what's coming up next for you like what do you want out of the next couple of i want to write another book i want to be a commentator politically for the conservative movement because it's got a big rift in it at the moment and i would like to i do want to be a commentator politically for the conservative Ideally, be on the way to having a family and be baptized into the Orthodox Church. I'll be watching with interest. I appreciate you very much. Where should people go to check out everything you do? Everything's on my Instagram. My website is kanikarose.com. It has my book on it. It has the concilium where I teach you how to avoid manipulation and how to get your freedom back from the cage that is your brain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hank joined BJ's Wholesale Club the day he became a father of 30. I coach football. Now, Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices, 30 pounds of pasta, three cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks. And that's just pregame. He knows teamwork and BJ's knows savings. This is your home, Coach. Home of the Save. Join for just $20 at bjs.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for six months. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only. BJ's. Home of the Save. © transcript Emily Beynon