‘Fellowship of the Ring’ Revisited Episode 1: Prologue and Concerning Hobbits With Kumail Nanjiani | Fellowship of the Pod

Hello, and welcome to a very special episode of House of R. We are starting a brand new project that we're calling unofficially Fellowship of the Pod. That's right. Molly Rubin, I'm so excited to do this. Joanna Robinson, my love, my own, my precious, uh, it's happening. It's happening. One believable joy, delight, thrill, fellowship of the ring, reread, full fellowship of the ring, rewatch for the 25th anniversary, we're going to get into all of that, all right, after this. Okay, our guest today on the podcast is Kumail Nanjani. One of my favorite comedians of all times, incredible actor and incredible writer, huge Lord of the Rings nerd, Kumail, uh, you know, videoed in from New York, um, recently jet lagged, I believe, from, uh, intercontinental travel, but such is the shared passion for our fellowship of the ring and for the Lord of the Rings movies and Lord of the Rings and Middle Earth. This is like a dream. Come true for me. I'm so thrilled. I mean, there's a great dream for us to do this project in general, but Kumail was like a dream guest. I'm so excited that he was here to kick things off and absolute thrill. And this is how we're going to be, you know, adventures, they must be shared. This is something that we've learned and then we know how to be true here in Middle Earth. And so we're going to be sharing this adventure with some fellow rings obsessives each week and Joe is going to run through the schedule soon. Broadly, here's how it's going to work. We're going to talk about the books. Correct. We're going to talk about a slice of the film with a guest. So Kumail was here today, but more members will be joining our fellowship soon. Absolutely. And we're doing, we're dropping these episodes, buying some misfortune that we find on the road. Good. One day between now and the end of December for the 25th anniversary of fellowship with the ring. That's right. So this is a nine episode, but eight week project and we'll explain why it's that sort of special things. But nine episodes for nine members of fellowship, we've got a bunch of friends who are going to be joining us. We're really, really excited. We're not pretending that you don't know the story of Lord of the Rings though. So. Correct. And we're going to be keeping mostly to the sections of the book and the sections of the film that we're talking about, but if you're watching the movie for the first time or reading the book for the first time, we're just here to warn you that like, it's all on the table. Yeah. So maybe go watch the movie first and then come explore this project with us. Yes. I think if you're reading the book for the first time, that's okay. Along with us, it won't be a problem, but like you should know the basic story of Lord of the Rings or else we're going to spoil it for you. You know what? I mean, Garagas is lurking and waiting and so are plot points from the very end of the story because that's just that's just how we do it. 25 years since the movie and quite a bit longer since the book. We have so much to look back at and celebrate and obviously part of what we are really looking forward to is how these things that we have loved, these aspects of the story that we have loved for so long, frankly, stand out and new to us. This point in our lives, doing this together, haven't gotten to cover like rings of power and talk about rings together, um, can I guess not to talk about the end? Can we get every single one of our guests? To do a golem impression before this is all over? I think so. I think so. Um, I'm calling it Shire Sunday's, you don't have to, but that's what I'm going to call it every Sunday, spend many hours with us talking about one of our favorite texts of all time and one of our favorite movies of all time. Um, here's the homework, you don't have to do it, but here it is. There's chapter assignments for each episode that we're doing. You can find it on the show notes for today's episode. You'll find the breakdown of the episodes in the chapter assignments. Yes. I don't want a social asset asset that's sort of pinned to the top of our house of our Instagram. So at house of our Instagram is where you can find that, et cetera, et cetera. So here it is. I'm just going to run through it really quickly. Great. Episode one. Prologue concerning Hobbits with Camilla and Johnny, incredible. So this is the, uh, forward of the prologue, uh, is, is the section of the book we're talking about. And for the film, it's the first 15 minutes, 10 seconds up through get off knocking on, on Bilbo's door. Yeah. So that's episode one. The rest of the guests are going to be surprises as we go revealed week to week. That's right. So that's, that's what's going to happen there. But episode two is Bilbo's party. That's chapters one and two up through when Fredo and Sam start their journey alone in the movie. That's 43.48, 43 minutes, 48 seconds, episode three leaving the shire. That's chapter three, chapter four, chapter five, and that's up through the end of the Buckleberry fairy incident. So that's fun to say. Episode four, bonus. Wonderful. Tom Bombadill, special Tom bomb, Tom bomb, chapters six, seven, and eight, the old forest that has a Tom Bombadill and fog on the barrow, downs, Tom Bombadill, cut from the movie. We are spending a whole episode to talk about Tom Bombadill and the barrow downs and all of that, uh, fun adventure. We have no movie, yeah, we have no movie to talk about that week. So we thought we would have a little like made podcast project, that's right, mailbag from the bad baby. So [email protected], if you've got questions, comments, concerns about the movies, we will do a little movie mailbag section inside of that, it's very special Tom Bombadill episode, episode five, recently renamed Strider and Arwen. That's chapter nine, chapter 10, chapter 11, chapter 12. So that's up through Rivendell. It's after Arwen goes, if you want him, come and claim him. And then Frodo's on the ground, he's like, you know, and then we like have, not my favorite visual effect cut to Frodo and Rivendell. So that's up to like an hour, 23 ish minutes into the movie, episode six, Rivendell. That's everything that happens in Rivendell, that's chapters 13, 14, 15. So up through the decision to go through Moria. That brings us in episode seven, Moria, chapter 16, chapter 17, all of Moria. Up through fly you fools, up through, give them a moment for pity's sake, up through Elijah Woods' darling face as he looks over his shoulder with tears in his eyes, because they're about to go to episode eight, Lothlorean. Hell yeah. Our babe, gladriles here, so that's chapters 18, chapter 19, chapter 20, everything happens in Lothlorean. And last but not least, spoiler alert, episode nine, Boramir's fall. That is a spoiler right up top here. Maybe he just tripped over his own bootlaces. Exactly. There's a lot of rough terrain out there. There is. Chapters 21, 22, and two towers, chapter ones, right? So that's the book content for less, and that's just like up through the end of the movie. So those are the nine episodes again, if you're like, what a treat. That all sounded like gibberish to me. These are going to be posted in the show notes, and on a social asset that's pinned to the inscrase. And every episode we will refresh you on what's next pod is going to cover, so you'll always have that in real time. And we'll give you little little recaps for the book and movie portion in case you're not actually revisiting right actively, wait, what actually happened in the stretch? We're going to, we're going to have you covered there too. Nine podcasts, you might be saying, on one movie and one book. And then, you know, normal response might be, that's a lot, not the bad babies. They're probably like only nine. I guess what? There's another anniversary next year and the year after we just get you to keep doing this. Could we possibly be able to do return to the king in nine episodes? That might have to be a long one. Come on. It's quite long. Okay. And we might have some more surprises along the way this time. It's true. We've got some, we've got some ideas. We've got some key. Stay tuned. That's right. Stay tuned to see what else awaits. That house of our pod for updates, we'll be updating there, you know, remember us on Twitter, et cetera, et cetera. All the palm. Have us a drag is gmail.com. This will continue every Sunday, Shire Sundays. This is what we're doing for almost the rest of the year, but we are also covering the rest of vision quest, the rings of power starting, so we're going to do a double ring, sort of side by side, later on it's coming up. There's a bunch of stuff happening, you know, but as we, as we confronted last week, we are less than two months away from din and doomsday. Stonishing stuff. Which one are you more excited for? Din. I don't mind saying, din. I'm excited for a doomsday, you know, that's a moment, you know, I'm doing curious. I do. I do. I'm curious. I am. Thank you. Incredible. All right. So yeah, we're going to do a, we're going to start with a quick book recap. The road goes ever on. And by quick, I might quick, because this is the forward and the prologue. Yes. The forward to the second edition, we just say, which is the forward that's in front of most additions, unless you have a first edition of Fellowship of the Ring, in which case, what are you doing? Podcasts aren't you swimming in your vat of money, but journal first edition, you probably have the forward that went in the second edition. That's the one that's in most copies of the Lord of the Rings. Here's a recap in which Tolkien dunks on allegories and those who criticize his work. And then in the prologue, tells us all about hobbits, including harfots, shout out rings of power. That's right. Hobbit holes. Hobbit government. It's not quite everyone's tax policy, but it'll do. It's more than George R. Martin, I think, gave him credit for it, honestly. And a shockingly lengthy section on pipeweed. That's it. That's my recap of what happens in the. these first few pages of "Felish with the Ring." - I think that covered it. But I would like you to recap something else, which is your relationship to these books. - Oh, guess what? I love them. I love these books so much. I, the copy that I am working off of is the copy that I bought in 2001, in which I found a ticket stub for the Royal Ten of Bombs tucked in. - My favorite thing to open a book and find a memory. - Yeah. - Where are you born? - January 2001, the ticket was like $8 'cause that's how much movies to call it. Cause we're old. But yeah, I love these books. I don't reread them every year. Rewatch movies every year. I don't reread the books every year, but I do reread them occasionally. Fellowship is my favorite of the books and of the movies. And it's frankly not even like that close. I think for a lot of people, it's two towers, but for me it's fellowship. And for some secos, it's Return of the Gang. And great. And recently, I haven't for this journey through the text I haven't revisited, but a couple years ago, Andy Circus did like a full audiobook recording of the three books. That was a really fun journey for me as you know, I love an audiobook. - You do? - But on this one, I'm just like pen on paper in the text. Here we go. Love these books. Now, everyone what's your relationship to Tolkien's work? - I love this story. I love this world. You know, I've, I've mentioned this on pods before, but my dad was just a massive Lord of the Rings fan, a massive Tolkien fan. So he used to just talk about his love for Middle-Earth and his love for these books when I was growing up. And you know, he's still this day talks with like such a fondness for like the way he describes the covers on his childhood copies, which he doesn't have anymore. I kind of find those for him at some point. Filing this one away is a thing to do, but it's just sort of in the air in our home growing up. And I, as I've also mentioned on pods before, it was just like a really slow reader when I was a kid. Like I was not a quick study when it came to learning to read and I was in for much of elementary school, like lower reading groups was like not a confident reader. And in fifth grade, when I got bumped up to the GT reading group to the higher level reading group, the first book that I read in that new reading group was The Hobbit. So like in addition to just loving the book, yeah, falling into the world. You know, I, like obviously you have a connection when you're a kid to like the animated movies, et cetera. It just, to me, it's inextricable from starting to become a reader, you know, from finding that relationship, that was my own to like holding a book in my hands and meeting those characters in that way. So I have a really vivid memory of in middle school when we read The Trilogy Fellowship. I think is the first book I ever had that experience of, I can't put this down. So like I can remember, I remember getting in trouble at Hebrew school, holding it under my desk, reading it because I didn't want to put it down. I had to know what happened next. And you know, the handful of books that like pop into my mind from those really formative reading years where I was like, you know, I'm not going to the beach today because I need to read Eastern from, you know, like they just, they have a hold on your memory. - That's the most Mallory sentence I've ever heard of. - Fucking love you. - Love you the from. - Not much difference between the froms of fair and the froms of the graveyard. - Do you think love you the from? That's why. - What? And so I just, you know, I really have loved the books for a long time, the movies. When they came out and we'll talk more about our relationships and the movies later with Kumail, they just immediately were like my favorite thing in the world. - Absolutely. - And like you, you know, I rewatch them every, I say, same with me. I do not reread the books every year. I enjoy whenever I have the opportunity. Like this is such a wonderful. - It is a gift. - What is a gift? Wonderful opportunity to fall back into the books. But the movies every year, it's every year. Adam loves them. We for a long time did it as a Thanksgiving holiday watch. - And then you met me and you switched. - You accepted me with a little bit of the Christmas timeline and just yeah, you know, it's a year does not feel genuinely like a complete year, a year lived without watching the extended editions start to finish in a short span of time. It's just one of my favorite things in the world to do. - And it's a ritualistic experience. Like for me, I so closely associated with like, it would feel weird to watch them for me in like the heat of summer. Like it should be like cold, you should be cozy. There should be like stew and warm beverages. And you can smell the Christmas tree in the next room and like all of that, like that's all part of it. And then just like sharing it with friends who love it. And we all have our different parts that we loved to quote. And I've said this before, I'm rings of power, but like when we cover rings of power, but Middle Earth is my favorite fictional universe. And like Tolkien, because of his scholarship in language and his scholarship in mythology, like I just find it so genuinely so fun. And each time I sit down and do prep for one of these pods. And I'm just like reading his letters and reading the companions and like reading all the scholarship around Tolkien is just like such a pleasure to marinate in that world. And so I feel so grateful that we get to do this project together. - Same. - And yeah, and anything you want to say sort of more broadly about the forward or the prologue, as a way to kick off this story. Like we have a whole episode of content before we even get to chapter one of the book. I mean, I think it's interesting. You alluded to this and you joked about this already in your recap, but we, I think in a very like thronesy and era tend to make a distinction sometimes about like the level of detail about the way the world, not only is conceived in the mythology of the world, but the way the world would be inhabited by the characters, right? That's something we talk about a lot. We love the George quote, the little baby ox, little cradles. It's a great quote. I'm just not sure I fully agree with that. And so it is, there's an equilibrium that I think is helpful to reestablish in returning. The forward is just, if you are listening to this year, like I've never read the books, I don't want to read the books. I'm here for the movie chat, but I'll listen along to the books. Welcome, that's awesome. We're glad to have you treat yourself to the forward no matter what. It takes 10 minutes to read, and it is just really an all time, flexed, dunk on them, bit of writing. It's wonderful. It really is. The professor got a little spicy. Very assassin, yeah. So it's just very entertaining. And I, you know, I think obviously we, as you mentioned, the letters, like there is such a wealth of information out in the world from Tolkien, from Christopher Tolkien, from the other writers and scholars and Oxford, et cetera, who are around him or he was in some sort of correspondence with how he thought of the world. And obviously, if you're a ring's obsessive, you're like, I've been in the content minds of the Silmarillion and the unfinished tales for years, like there's all the appendices. I have the Tolkien gateway book, man. Yeah, exactly. The fact that we are now in an era where we can make many years of a prestige TV show based on kernels of nuggets of information and appendices, like the depth of the world was never in question. But as an opening note for the story, when you sit down to read it, the prologue just tells you so much about not just the current flow of life and rhythm of life in the Shire, but the history of Hobbits, the three different breeds and what was the migration pattern and how did they get there? And so, you know, it's obviously something that we love in general about getting to talk about these worlds together. But like, when we got to cover, speaking of the past tense, as we cover rings of power, you know, I just remember so vividly, like, season one, Harfoots, oh my god, digging up, you know, passages where Harfoots are mentioned or, you know, poppies wandering song and like the passage that we'll talk about later today were the little nuggets that continue to flower into these beautiful trees and something that I really loved getting to talk about with you in our rings of power coverage is the idea of like subcreators and Tolkien as a gardener. And so that's just a wonderful bit of insight in this stretch of the forward and the prologue too. What was here, what was known, but also, the fact that he is so free and acknowledging and examining that he's got to find some of it as he goes, you know, I'm just like so, because there are different kinds of thinkers, like there are the people who map it all out. Yeah. And then there are the people who have an idea and intention of feeling and he had so much of the work, he created a story because he had a world. That's, yeah, that's what I wanted to say is like, in terms of that, George, it's not George Martin versus Tolkien 'cause Martin reveres Tolkien. Yes. So he's not dunking on Tolkien when he talks about this. But like the way in which Tolkien, who was interested, I think first and foremost, and the languages that he created. And then in this world he dreamed up and this idea of creating a mythology for Britain, the same way that it exists in like Germanic, Icelandic, Norse tales, et cetera, et cetera. He's just sort of like, we should have something like that. And what if it's Middle-Earth? And the idea that Middle-Earth is like our Earth, just of a different time. And the way in which he then thinks of this brighter world and he's like, oh, but okay, there's this little hobbit story that's based on these tales that I told my children and I'll turn that into a story. And then, okay, I'm gonna do this trilogy. I mean, I think I believe he really actually wanted to cut straight to the Silmarillion, but the publishers are like, see, well, see, Well, they're like, give us the Lord. ring. So he did that instead of actually took him a while. Um, but yeah, this idea that he's populating a world that already exists. And I think we must have talked about this a lot during rings of power season one, because I remember it was something I was thinking about a lot in that first season. But the way in which this journey takes place amongst the ruins of a previous war or previous civilizations. And you know, like you and I have been watching the like behind the scenes featureettes of, of making a fellowship with a ring. And the way in which they're creating, you know, um, weather top, or, um, you know, in the final section of the, uh, of the film when Eric runs as a photo, I, you know, I would have followed you the very fires mortar, they're standing next to a ruin. There are just ruins everywhere. And so watching them like craft these beautiful statues out of polystyrene and then like crumble them down because there's just like ruins and crumbles of of like the new menorians and all the people who came before and we start with a previously on war. Yeah. Remember this war and there was actually one before that as well, don't worry about it. We've been warring for a really long time, but like it's such a lived in, um, worlds of just sort of like an, and Frodo in the fellowship and, and Bilbo and, and, and his fellowship are traveling through. Yeah. The ghosts of previous stories and, and, you know, we'll talk about this bit when we talk to Kumail, but this idea that Sam, Samwise talks about in terms of being part of the same story that goes on and on and on. And so, um, I just love that about the, about the prologue. There's this like fiction that, uh, he maintains in the first forward of the first edition. Again, once again, if you're swimming around in your buckets of money, maybe you have this, uh, forward to the first edition. But in that, in that version of the forward, he's, he maintains this fiction of like, oh, I found all this information about this adventure from the, from the journals of Bilbo and Frodo, renowned hobbits, you know, like that comes through in the prologue, but he abandons that sort of like idea of, this is all real, but that was like in his original forward for, for Lord of the Rings is just sort of like, this is a real text that I have excavated, and I figured out, uh, how to curate it for you. And I just, I just love that idea. He's like, this world is here, and I am a gardener and I'm just sort of cultivating certain plants and certain hedgeros for you to go down. I have like a chill listening to you to talk about it. I, the fact that we not only get to read his words and hear, and it's, I mean, a lot of the, the passages in the various chapters are actually poems or songs. There are many dream sequences, there are elements of prophecy. So there is a quality and an aspect to much of the prose that is outside of just the nature of how people speak, right? But then you have the additional elements of the fact that he was drawing maps and his illustration, right? So there is a clarity in his mind as he on Earth, I love that word, and, and discovers the, the world that he is bringing to us, right? That he is holding in his hand. This is, this is the adventure. This is the journey, this story to bring to us. And, you know, here, hearing you describe that from, from Tolkien's perspective and the creating of the world in the first place, it makes me think actually of like how Peter Jackson talked about the task and the responsibility of making the movies and, you know, on what we'll talk about this quite a bit when we go through the first portion of the film with Kumail later, but all of the great bonus features that are out there, you know, one of the things that you can hear in the, the exploration of translating the books to the screen, but just more broadly, something that they talk about a lot and Peter Jackson will talk about this, but then other people will talk about hearing Peter Jackson talk about this. Oh, it's real. The speech he made of like this is a real history that we have to be covered. We found it. We found it. We found it. We found it. We found it. We found it. It's a real plan. Exactly. And the thing is, I mean, first of all, what a cool, what a cool way to go about making these movies that obviously translated into these indelible creations that we love, but the thing is you can't see something like that. You can't make a speech like that. You can't have that intention. If the material doesn't lend itself to that kind of embrace. And I think so many when you think about like what makes a journey through middle earth feel different from a lot of other fantasy settings, I really do feel like a lot of other fantasy settings, not a lot, but in some, it just feels shallower and just feels like here's here's a here's a new castle we've created. Here's this that and the other thing, but they're like, what's the history? What happened here before? And I mean, that's that part of what we love about thrones is like sort of how did Robert get on the throne, you know, what happened to Leonis Stark like all, you know, all this stuff is there from the beginning of just like the deep history. And we're dealing with the fallout of generations of conflicts and all of that. And so we're dealing now with the consequences of a shielders choice or of Gollum's choice or of Bilbo's choice, you know, et cetera, et cetera down the line and how the ring has taken advantage time and time again. So, you know, I just think it's, you just feel it in your ballad, you know, you really do it has, I think that people have relationships with Lord of the Rings for all sorts of different reasons that are very specific and personal to them, but there is a shared quality in that feeling. Yeah. There is like the the the plucking of a string on a harp kind of aspect to something singing in your soul when you read these pages or you watch these movies that it's just Odysseus's bow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's something holy about it that really, really isn't. So that yeah, that idea of crafting the the folklore of of this fictional place to give our real world a version of that to hold in its hand. Just an incredible thing. There's a reason that, you know, not not every story lasts many do, but not all of them. And, you know, to think about the the way that this is something that is not only still so present and it's original form for so many people, but inspiring new adaptation and, and you know, the the ability to look at like a couple sentences and one chapter and say, what if we made a whole video TV show or a whole TV show? That's I know for some people that's like anathema, but I I really love it, you know, I love that that there's so much there. Yeah, exactly. There's such a desire still to mine. Hopefully not too greedily and too deep, you know, but let us delve greedily and deep into our super relatives. All that is gold does my glitter excited. All right, our first one is called the Justice for Glorfrontal Award for the book detail we miss the movies. Glorfrontal fought a ball rug only to be cut from the movies sad, not that sad because I am glad that our one gets her her move there. So we can pick anything from the forward or the prologue for any of the categories. Exactly. So we're trying to restrict ourselves to the forward in the prologues, you know, we wanted a bit outside the borders in the movie section, but we're doing our best to sort of like, yeah, contain ourselves here. So this is a little harder than it will be other weeks to pluck something out of the forward in the prologue, but what in the forward of the prologue that you read in the book, they're like, I wonder if Peter Jackson could have found a way to work this into the movie? You know, I think just generally more insights into the variance of a habit life. Now, do we have time for all of the history? Probably not. This is like, no, we really would. Yeah, this is right. It's not the scope of this film and the pace of it is so expert and so wonderful, but when you're reading and you're learning about the harfuts and the stores and the fallow hides, you're like, oh, this would have been cool to even just glimpse in some way. Now we have, now we're with our harfrog pals, not in season three. Not in season three. This isn't one and two. And rings of power, but yeah, like the smiles, you know, learning, again, this is kind of grim, but when you learn in the prologue that, you know, the idea of living in a hole in the ground was for the very rich or the very poor. Yeah. The idea of the the class. Yeah, built a rich, rich hobby loaded. And that's that's true. And like, you know, the sackville baggainsers have a lot to say about. They want the space and all that. But yeah, finding out that not every habit lives in a hole in the ground. I mean, even even here in in Hobbiton. And if you know that and you look and you see funny standing structures inside of, you know, the Hobbiton that they built, like those exist. But I think I always kind of thought of them as like, I don't know, Sheds for pigs or something like that, but no, they're Sheds for Hobbits. Hobbits live in them. Not every hobbit gets to have a hole in the ground. Yeah. And he says there are a lot of hobbits there. There are only so many holes in the ground. There are a lot of hills, but only only hillocks. Hillocks and delightful. Under all, you know, this will be a little bit of my of a theme actually through my. Do you want to explain what a smile is, though? S M I A S M I A L S. Should we set the over under for how many words I will mispronounce each pod, by the way? Just in general. I think what's a prediction? I think smile is correct. That is, but there are plenty of others that I think will be wrong. I don't know. I think will be perfect. Yeah, this is like the, well, great smile. Shout out the tux. That's always, I think, a nice little, a nice little flex. So these are just structures. These are the hobbit holes, the structures, the homes and the tunnels under the hillock. And so, yeah, more details like that, but I think in particular, when we talk about the Shire especially in the movies, it is about, and we're gonna do this today, the beauty and the peace and the sense of something perfect to preserve. I think it is important to also show the less idyllic aspects of life in the Shire because that is true to life anywhere, and that comes across in a number of different ways, actually in this opening stretch. So, yeah, I think a little glimpse of that would have been good. - Well, we had a conflict inside of the heart of the-- - Yeah, of the hobbits. - Do we get some flicking of the air wax we do? What could we have gone deeper? Not into the air canal, but into the culture, perhaps. What's your pick here? - So, speaking of culture, so, you know, on the idea of like Martin's accusation about systems of government, a whole section in the prologue is called of the ordering of the Shire, which is sort of about the governmental systems inside of the Shire, and I just love to learn the fact that the mayor is also, the postmaster is also the sheriff, right? As mayor, almost his only duty was to preside of the banquets given on the Shire holidays, which occurred at frequent intervals, they love a holiday. But the offices of the postmaster for Shire are attached to the mayoralty. - Mayoralty, would you say? - Mayoralty. - Mayoralty. - Royalty. - Mayoralty. - So that he managed both the messengers of his and the watch. So the fact of the mayor, it would've been kind of fun to meet the mayor, who is also the postmaster, who is also the sheriff, you know, a lot of post is gonna be flying fast and furious for Bilbo's party, so like that mayor slash postmaster, slash sheriff was quite busy, yeah. - And I mean, you know, really on the official duty list, like banquets stuff, go, kind of it. - Must be nice. - So, must be nice. - Yeah, that sounds pretty good. I also, as an honorable mention here, I'll throw out a zag, kind of the inverse of the prompt, which is just touting something that the movie added that is only winked at here. And there was added to it an abbreviated version of those parts of the tale of Erragorn and Arwen, which lie outside the account of the war. And then of course, detailed in the appendices when that tale is actually presented. And Tolkien insisting on keeping that in the appendices because it was so crucial, the idea that like, you know, in this stretch of the story, at least very little of that is explored, amplified considerably in the film. Many of the things I think that we'll be tracking as we go, we'll certainly say, oh, this is in the movie and not in the book, or in the movie more prominently than in the book, but a lot of what we'll be tracking is, oh, this thing that was in the book that people loved, it didn't make the movie how sad, Tom Bomb, et cetera. And so this isn't really mention of a thing that ended up being quite a bit more prominent in the films. - I was reading anything you can imagine, Peter Jackson making of "Middle Earth," which just sort of detailed some of the other attempts at a movie before this one. Various drafts, various casts, various filmmakers, et cetera. So John Borman, who made "Ex-Galibur" among another, number of other sort of like, strange and erotic and unusual fantasy kind of projects. - One of my husband's favorite movies. - Yeah. (laughs) Love you Adam. That he had a version of this movie, I believe, if memory serves, that had like, "Air Gordon R" when like, fucking in a cave. - I wouldn't watch it. - And I don't know if this is where George got his idea for "Johnny Gret," but basically like, they find the glittering caves and they, 'cause she's like, followed him and they have sex. I believe that was the Borman version. It might have actually been an earlier Peter Jackson draft. Somebody had "Air Gordon R" when fucking in a cave. - I mean, you know. - "Eager" is grateful. And so as everybody else who's been studying the Lord's Kiss at length for, low these many years, wonderful stuff. - All right, this next section, we're calling "The Lore Low Down," and he asked me to middle-earth mythology that you love that's on display in this section. So we already kind of talked about mine a little bit so we can keep it quick. And this is a cheat in the future episodes. I'll pick a specific thing. But I just thought this was a moment and once again sort of, toast the idea of the gardener, which is the opening line of this section. This tale grew in the telling, until it became a history of the Great War of the Ring and included many glimpses of yet more history that preceded it. So we had the hobbits. Oh, do the sequel, like you were saying. Well, I've got like all this, I'm working on. We're going to all this stuff. - Yeah, we're going to all, I've got this. I've got all these details about the whole game. - Total baby franchising. - IP, come on. And I just, I don't know, I really, I love being able to learn more about how Tolkien thought about war and building a world and crafting mythology and writing a narrative and what the order of that was for him is so endlessly fascinating to me. And he talks, he writes about it in this forward. It's really interesting. You know, he said, one passage is like talking about pausing after working on the hobbit before writing this sequel. For I wished first to complete and set an order, the mythology and legends of the elder days, which have been taking shape for some years. Then there's another passage. In spite of the darkness of the next five years, I found that the story could not now be wholly abandoned. I love that like meta aspect, right? The quest has begun. And so how can you not continue even when it's hard? And there's darkness all around. And I plot, the quote continues, that was me. And I plot it on mostly by night till I stood my balance tomb in Moria. I mean, think about that. He's just moving through the world as he discovers and creates it. It's incredible. This is my favorite though. Forsite had failed. And there was no time for thought. That's like when he got to a point and had to stop. And then switched to writing about Frodo and the journey into Moria instead. And so again, the forward is really worth reading because it's just fascinating and very entertaining. But to think about, we sit here now or when we were kids. And we read this in full. And it's there for us. But that's not how it was made, right? And nothing is made that way. Nothing just comes wholly into existence. Someday people will get to read the entirety of George R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire. And they will never know the pain of having to wait. No comment? It'll happen. OK. We believe-- you mentioning that-- so in the first forward, which is not what we're here to talk about today, but do I have a quote from it anyway? Yeah, I do. In which he's maintaining that fiction that, like, this is a real story that he's excavating. I love this line where he talks about that this one, unlike the Hobbit, is not for children, right? And he says, this book speaks more plainly of those darker things, which lurked only on the borders of the earlier tale, which have troubled Middle Earth in all its history, right? So it's always been there, lurking on the borders. And I told this John T. Little Tail of a Hobbit and the Dwarves and the Dragon, et cetera, et cetera. But there is something darker here. And it's sour on amongst other things. So yeah, I love that idea of, like, it's always been here. OK, I'm doing pipe weight. I love it. OK, fantastic. In the prologue where he's talking about, he recaps the Hobbit. He talks about the government, blah, blah. And then there's just, like, equal column space allotted to the history of pipe weed. Yeah, yeah. And if you're asking how these books became as popular as they did, part of their explosion of popularity in the late '50s into the '60s is the counterculture movement and the way in which, like, college students would have, you know, Tolkien parties where they would get really high and eat mushrooms, you know? And so, like-- I'm saying, like, smoke weed and eat, like, actual mushrooms. But maybe other mushrooms, who's to say? But, like, the psychedelic drug fueled, you know, sort of, like, misty mountain hop by the surrounding is part of this whole thing. And Tolkien is very buttoned up, like, you know, dawn is not who you think of when you think of drug counterculture. And, you know, maybe he was just thinking about tobacco itself, but it's not really what it seems like. And so, yeah, the origin of long bottom leaf, slash old Toby, shout out the Urbler of the Shire, which is made up text that he says he gets this info from. Quote, please. But even the dune dine of Gondor allows this credit. Hobbits first put it into pipes. Not even the wizards first thought of that before we did. The ones the wizard that I knew took up the art log ago and became as skillful as in all other things that he put his mind to. So, shout out Gandalf. But, like, Gandalf loves the Hobbits. He loves their pipeweed who can blame him. And I just think it's like a key part of the whole of the rings. No question. A aesthetic. I quite agree. Pipeweed. So, old Toby, long bottom. Shout out old Toby. Shout out Southern Star. The, you know, technically, right? They, whoever they is, scholars of the world, the inner, the inner webs, want us to think it is, in fact, tobacco. Yeah. And we'll often point to the nicotine nicotine nicotine nicotine nicotine a variety probably of nicotine. Yes. Yeah. Then bived or inhaled. They're pipes of clay wood. I could not agree with you more that it's giving marijuana even if it's not supposed to be. That is, that is my preferred interpretation of it. And I will say, you know, you could maybe say plenty of the behaviors or effects would also apply to tobacco use, you know, and both sitting with a pipe tobacco on the hill and, you know, puffing the, uh, the ship and the sail. Okay, sure. Study, crunch the Marion Pippin tape. Sure. And get back to us, folks. Well, I mean, Peter Jackson certainly thinks it's weird. Yeah, yeah. Guys just have full-on munchies. Yeah, yeah. I will never get over the chicken that they fish out of the water that has a bunch of dead bodies in it. Fucking disgusting. Uh, for sure. Okay. Yeah. So my answer was piping. I love it. Um, all right. Letters look. Okay. So as we mentioned, we'll be, you know, there's supplemental text that we'll be looking at when we, when we just got, when we study this, this text, the letters, the collected letters of jay are token are one of the best insights, uh, that exist into his, uh, further thoughts on lore, on his intentions around characters. More of my favorites is he's like, some people fight Sam really annoying. And I get that. Sometimes he's annoying. And I'm like, no, he's perfect. But okay, you know, like, there are things that Tolkien says in his letters. But, so insights from, from the preeminence Tolkien scholar, Tolkien himself, yeah, into sort of the intentions, the backgrounds, et cetera, et cetera. What letter material do you want to shout out here? So you're going to hit us with some habit. Yeah. Highlights. And so I, I, I want something about how we think of the shire again, kind of connected to what I was saying at the top. This is definitely like on my mind revisiting this in this level of detail. So I'm going with letter 93, um, from, from Jarrar Tolkien to, to Christopher. This is from 44, December 24, 44. Sea Williams, Charles Williams of the Inglings, uh, on the incredibly entertaining to, to read about, like, how, how did Tolkien interact with people and then think about their perspectives and styles. This is one of the, this is one of the great ones. Um, not your main to what I'm about to share, though. Quote. Sea Williams, who was reading it all, says the great thing is that its center is not in strife and war and heroism, though they are understood and depicted, but in freedom, peace, ordinary life and good liking. Yet he agrees that these very things require the existence of a great world outside the shire, less they should grow stale by custom. So I just love that. Like we talk any, Vegas is taking it off the board, but anyone placing bets at home surely has show us the, the shire or, and it was saved, but not for me, top of their board of things that we will say the most to each other across the pod. And yes, that is, that is elemental. It is essential, but also show us the world outside of it, because these things have to exist. In relation to each other, they just have to, both so you can appreciate it, but also so that you can interrogate it and see it a little bit more clearly. You have to go to Brie, which is a little shittier in order to really appreciate Hobbiton. You know, I think I can love Brie. Do you? Love it. A lot of really shitty dudes in Brie. The printing pony, there's a lot of, there's a lot of sinister characters. You know, I have some notes. I don't want to be grilled at the gate any more than for the reign of Mary and Fifth and then. Yeah, like it's, come on. Let me get inside. You know, do I have some notes for, for Pip when he just freely offers up vegans, despite being told not to, of course, we'll get to all that, but I would sit there and have a pint. Happily. Oh my god, wait. Happily. There's a there's a fun fact that I sort of felt we were out of time for when we did the movie section, which he already recorded. So I'm gonna say this out of order. I'm travel. So the font in the opening, sorry, this is a bit of movie in the in the book section, but in the in the opening credits. Yeah. The font that they use, the sort of like wingnut films. Yeah. So that was a last minute change. They had other fonts before and impeded actions like, you know what, I don't like it. So they like, so they tasked a Sasha Lee who was a calligrapher who was working for when a designer in general, but she was a calligrapher. So she did this like hand dipped alphabet that they use to then like make this font, right? So she by hand amazing. Fun thing about her hands. She's also the double, this is perhaps apocryphal, but it's all over the internet. Half ass internet research, would you say? I would. Shire Baggins, she's Golem's hand. And she also did the font in the video in the movie. Incredible. She's listed on I have to be an unreliable place as like arms of Golem, but like elsewhere on the internet, they claim that she is. Shire. Holy shit. Shire Baggins, one of my favorite moments, not because of the Shire Baggins or the arms, so that's also wonderful, but because of the quite rude Gandalf recounting inane babble. Not nice. Not nice. He was being tortured. Come on. All right. I'm going to hit you with some hobbit stuff from the letters. Fantastic. Here's a Tolkien said, and I think a lot of people relate who love Lord of the Rings from letter to one three. I am in fact a hobbit in all but size. I like gardens, trees, we know you do. And unmechanized farmlands, I smoke a pipe, and I like good, plain food, unrefrigerated. Oh, intriguing. Okay. But detest French cooking. Wow. Incredible. I like it even dare to wear in these dull days ornamental waste coats. I am fond of mushrooms out of a field and have a very simple sense of humor, which even my appreciative critics find tiresome. I go to bed lace and get up late when possible. I do not travel much. Wow. He's lost me on a couple of these. I like French cooking and I like to travel. You go to bed late and you get up early. Yeah. Let me say this. I would prefer to get up late. That would be if I had my brothers, I would prefer to get up late. You know, I was wondering, should we take the excuse of mushroom being related to this to like have so many mushroom dishes that are offered around Los Angeles? Sure. I thought you were going to say what podcast were we recently talking about potentially microdosing on? Or was that off mic? I feel like it was fun. I feel like it was on a five. Maybe it wasn't. And I tried to say something about doing mushrooms and you're like, I'm from Northern California. Oh, yeah. And I was like, I've never done mushrooms. Okay, you want a microdose. Why not now? Great. But also, let's go to Major Doma. Why don't some mushroom crisps? Why don't we do it and not tell people which pod we did it on and see if they can tell. Good. This is like a kind of a, I would say unintentional tradition at the ranger right now where, you know, just a cousin cell on an all-time heater on the ranger podcast network high out of his mind as he admits on every pod on pain medicine because of the kidney sense he can't pass. Just breaking down an NFL Sunday slate. It's amazing. Amazing. All right. Here's one more on hobbits. Why hobbits matter and why hobbits are at the center of the story from letter 131. They are entirely without non-human powers. So like, unlike elves, et cetera, et cetera. But our representative is being more in touch with quote nature, the soil and other living things, plants and animals, Tolkien loves a tree. I don't know if he's mentioned. And abnormally for humans free from ambition or greed of wealth. Some of them, they're made small partly to exhibit the pettiness of man, plain, unimaginative, parochial man, and mostly to show up in creatures of very small physical power. The amazing and unexpected heroism of ordinary men quote at a pinch. The best. The best. Why hobbits? This is why because they are, they are supposed to be of men, like in the same family as men, those smaller in stature. And they're just supposed to be so ordinary. And what can small ordinary people do? Yeah. I do really feel like we like to talk a lot. We've done this various fictional universes that we've covered, Lord the Rings, and or et cetera. The lesson that you can learn inside of a fictional universe that you choose to miss it, right? And I just, I don't know. I really think that like anyone can make a difference while taught to you in many ways when you're young. Like, Lord the Rings is one of the ways that people learn that lesson. It really, really is. It was for me. It was for me genuinely. I'm told myself I would not get ahead of myself, but you know, when Frodo steps up in Rivendell and like get out space. It's just sort of like, actually fast, nothing like it, nothing like it. Songs and poems spotlight. Okay, this will come more in handy in future things, but like sometimes people will skip the poems and skip the songs, we're not going to do that. We're going to talk about them and we're going to talk about what we like about them, you know? Yeah. Not all poems and songs in Tolkien are equal, but some of them are extraordinary and we're going to highlight them. Boom, but do you know? Said the two? Probably not. I'm probably not. It's stuff here. There was a lot to pick from. So Mallory and I picked the same thing, which is that wandering days is mentioned and that is a tune that was written by J.D. I think for the rings of power. J.D. and Bear Recreary probably conspiring together. Quote their own records began only after the settlement of the Shire and their most ancient legends hardly looked further back than their capital W wandering capital D days. On the What is always fascinating newly about reading the books just what what words are capitalized? Yeah always a journey Always a journey has his reasons shout out pop and her her warble. Come on pop give us a warble. Did you? The actor who says that give us a warble since low horses. That's right. Yeah, that's right. I love to see him I love to see a half foot in a while Dynamite slow horses season. I had a fucking blast. All right the most token thing a signature idea or element of style Molly Rubin you got a banger here, so We'll probably talk about this quite a bit a few times over the course of the project and today and in general And we have talked about this before we talked about this a lot in season two of rings power. Um You know the idea of allegorian how Tolkien felt about it versus applicability because many readers or viewers of a Middle-Earthian tale have the tendency and we have certainly done this To make the cops to world war two, etc. Right the the period of time that overlapped with when the books were written Though of course talking himself Thought more what what the idea of like uh You know talking fun world war one and had that experience and came home for more was like it's over and they're like oops no and then his son has to go fight in world war two So this idea of like Not just one world war but two world wars I thought we already took care of this problem. We didn't it came back and Tolkien's like that's not he's like This is not what this is yeah, so we'll share a couple passages, but then I I think Talk about what this actually unlocks for us and what it what it affords us This is from the forward. I should like to say something here with reference to the many opinions Many opinions are good Spicy to the many opinions or guesses that I have received or have read concerning the motives and meaning of the tale And then there's a very long uh stretch exploring this is fascinating. Here's a key passage I cordially dislike allegory iconic What what should we say we cordially dislike? Oh long west so many things I cordially dislike allegory and all its manifestations and always have done so since I growled And wary enough to detect its presence I much prefer history true or faint with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers I think that many can fuse applicability with allegory But the one resides in the freedom of the reader and the other in the purpist Domination of the author. Okay, so this is what I wanted to specifically say. I think that sometimes What was cordially dislike? I was freezing many opinions I think sometimes and I think I have done this before to be clear. I think sometimes the reaction to a confronting that Tolkien said it's not allegory. It's not that that's not what I'm doing. There's not the one to one It's it's born out of this specific thing is to say Don't make the comp and that's not what he's saying That's why the idea of applicability is I think such a boon and such a gift because it's like He did not only have one thing. I'm throughout the forward. You know, he goes through like Other details about specific aspects of the plot that predated these historical events and what would have remained unchanged or been true The how he would have explored it no matter what But also there's also that line where he talks about like all of his friends were dead by this certain year That's just like in the forward of this book It's just sort of like you cannot divorce yes his lived experience even though and he even says he has that line right about like The soil of of your life which will hit another category But the idea ultimately I think there's there's something liberating about being able to say You can wonder and interrogate and assess what inspired him right which I think is completely valid including with his own insights But before that and after it and where we are and where we will never be because it'll be so far in the future The world we're dust right there will be a comp that somebody can make when they read this story like what is that like he I was watching a BBC interview he gave where he was like a lot of people think the the ring of power is about atomic Energy he's like no, that's not what I had in mind though certainly like you can talk about that And I remember when the two towers came out in 2002 People were like oh the two towers the twin towers like 9/11 like well, you know, it's just sort of like You know and all so much of the analysis of that movie was about sort of like the war in Iraq and all the sort of stuff like that and it's just like Peter Jackson filmed this before 9/11 even happening you know Not even like talking about when talking wrote it, but it's just sort of like yes, you can always find Something to apply right look ability. Yeah apply this too because the truth of our and we talked about so a lot We talked about and or the truth of these things is that they're cyclical and they just like keep happening again and again and again And so there is something so heavy about confronting that that there is always some great horror Some nefarious for some looming shadow But then there's also something really heartening There's always a way through there is always a way into mount dude All this has happened before and it'll happen again, but like when are we doing our battle start rewatch Three years from now. Okay My pick here is the hobbit riddles in the dark retcon great one in in the prologue Tolkien basically recaps how Bilbo got the ring But he tells it differently than he told it in the hobbit right and he says Quote now it is a curious fact that this is not the story as Bilbo first told to his companions So he basically like took the ring which was just like merely a trinket in the hobbit And he's like oops actually gollum obsessed with it and he would never let it out of his sight and it would you know it's just like it's different And Bilbo Baggins is a is a thief and all this other stuff like that which is you know so This idea of of tearpoint the sort of like the retcon but sort of like the cultivating in the garden and the fact that like Tolkien was never You know, there's there's a booking by called unfinished tales like he was never at rest right In terms of like populating and figuring out the the tales of this world and the history of this world and like writing the Silmarillion and then like you know All the things that Christopher Tolkien worked on et cetera et cetera and and you know what what Patrick and JD are making people bring the power like you know There's just people who want to like Play in this world. This is something that Tolkien talked about this sort of like sandbox that he created for other people to play inside of um So that he himself just like retconned his own sort of most famous story where he was just sort of like Bilbo got it wrong Not me I didn't but Bilbo got it wrong and he told a different story I also really like this line from that section where it says it seemed then like mere luck This idea that Bilbo found the ring by mere luck, but then later you know Right there will be other intimations of like the Bilbo was meant to find it right yeah meant to come to Bilbo So that it could come to Frodo so that it could you know wind up where it wound up. Mm. I love this um we should try this This exact style of retcon with the poly fam Uh tune in You know, I think I guess we said it that way, but it was always meant to be this this way. Yeah Always meant to be stay tuned Palantir prophecies A kernel that will pay off later as Mallory mentioned. There's a bunch of dreams that will you know prophetic dreams and future chapters that we can talk about and that sort of stuff But here in the prologue um he drops some cheeky little uh references to certain things. Yeah. Um, I'm just gonna pop mine in really good way. Yeah, great Which he references Mary quote future master of Buckland so I would say Mary mark safe from the war of the ring Mary's gonna make it out to the other side of the tale master of Buckland Early versions of the forward also spoiled it Frodo and Sam survive the tale and there are other sort of intimations that that like make it seem that way But I think Mary is sort of the most if you're reading closely you know that Mary's gonna make it uh, you know and it's actually shocking How many of the core Hobbit sets lives are spoiled in the yeah in the prologue like The most important copy however has a different history. It was kept at great smiles But it was written in gondor probably at the request of the great grandson of paragraph now Maybe Pip was just fucking up a storm out on the road You never know. It's possible. Yeah full of it too, you know Or maybe that means so there's like a bunch of that there's a there's a a mention of um Uh, Barry here grandson of steward Farahmeer and you're like, uh, yeah Very amazing mark safe from the war since Marietta could paragraph became the heads of their great families For the use of the descendants of the children of master Samwise. I mean, what didn't he spoil Incredible um, we are trying in general with the pod to do listeners of of house of our We'll know that we love a smuggle here and sometimes like on our stranger things pods or buffy pods when we do categories We'll often have like 10 15 20 per we're trying not to do that this time in part because we're talking about like a couple chapters and a few minutes But this is this is one of the sections where We'll probably like hit the things that are worth mentioning beat because they're here. There are definitely a few contenders I really the column one is the one that like it gives me that little feeling in my chest So I love when you know Not only because of the harbinger of doom that is present here, but of course after reading the story and watching the movie So in the prologue the section of the prologue of the finding of the ring and Bilbo pressed him to keep his word for the thought came to him that the slimy creature rude might prove false, even though such promises were held sacred. And of old, all but the wickedest things feared to break them. But after ages alone in the dark, Gollum's heart was black and treachery was in it. Boy, is that gonna come back into play? - Yeah, it's interesting. Listening to Tolkien talk about how he said the saddest, he thinks the saddest part of the whole story is something Sam does that, Sam in not trusting Gollum sort of spurns, Gollum's sort of attempt at contrition. And Tolkien has talked about how like, the evil that good can do and how that applies to Sam there. So this idea that there is like, Gollum's heart was black and treachery was in it, but it is at a foregone conclusion that that's how that was gonna go without Sam playing the role that he played, you know? - Yeah, and like the devastation that Gollum feels that Frodo led the soldiers of Gondor to his clear pool, you know, it's like, it is fascinating to think about the other roads for Gollum and what could have been, but also then would we be falling into a possibility that in the fires of Mount Doom could never really have held it. One of the more interesting parts of the story, I love it. Kind of relatedly. The resilience of Hobbits, you know, just kind of established right here in the jump in a way that helps us, I think, to maintain that kernel of hope, but also like believe that this is incredible, so much of what befalls them that they could withstand it. And you know, every time another character comments on the stoutness of Hobbits, the resiliency of Hobbits, it's like such a boon at such a lovely moment. And so I always enjoy in the prologue when we get this. They worry if it came to it difficult to donter to kill and they were perhaps so unwaringly fond of good things, not least because they could when put to it, do without them and could survive rough handling by grief, faux or weather in a way that astonished those who did not know them well and looked no further than their bellies and their well-fed faces. So there's like what actually is the quality that is there, but also what is the assumption that somebody else makes? I always love that being established there. There's some interesting elf-friend Gray Havens foreshadowing here for the elves of the high-kindred had not yet forsaken Middle-Earth and they dwelt still at that time at the Gray Havens away to the west and then other places within reach of the Shire. And then indeed, a few Hobbits have ever seen or sailed upon the sea and fewer still had ever returned to report it. As the days of the Shire length and they spoke less and less with the elves and grew afraid of them and distrustful of those that had dealings with them. And the sea became a word of fear among them. Ooh, a word of fear among them. Away in which I'm not a Hobbit, I love an ocean vista, as you know. You at Porra crevice, but you love an ocean vista. These are things where you're going to travel. I don't like the crevice, but I would live in a Hobbit hole in the ground and I don't think they're the same thing. Would you feel, you're like natural light? Yeah, but, you know, the Bilbo's front rooms have a lot of like windows out to the outside. I wouldn't, I would experience the back end, you know. I would probably opt for a small Hobbit hole with just a few rooms in the front. I would not, though I do like a level blackout curtain and a bedroom, so like a backbed room, you know. But a sunny kitchen, a sunny sitting room sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, we've seen many of you spend all my days in it in a studio. Play across your face while recording from home. Yeah, now that's a man tree hugger testimonials. This is going to be a great one. It's okay to love trees, but it's not okay to love trees Tolkien did Tolkien want to fuck a tree? This is a question we're going to ask ourselves on a weekly basis. Well, I'm going to share your Sundays. All right, I got a couple quotes. Hit me. They were taller and slimmer than the others. They were lovers of trees and of woodlands. Lovers of trees. What do we mean? Okay, what do we mean by that, you know? I was talking to himself talking about sort of looking back on his pastoral youth, the country which I lived in childhood was being shabbily destroyed before it was 10. In days when motor cars were rare objects, I had never seen one. And men were still building suburban railways. Recently, I saw on a paper a picture of the last decrepitude of the once thriving corn mill beside his pool that long ago seemed to me so important. So I was talking basically saying like, "Hey, the scouring of the shire." So like that, like people think it's about the now, but this is actually about also what happened to me as a child, what happened to the countryside that I grew up in as a child and the encroachment of industries like that. So, and all the trees that they cut down to make various factories and mills. There you go, scouring of the shire. Another volunteer prophecy, just flat out mentioned. Sure. Sharky, all right. I have here a line that we already referenced earlier from the forward and author cannot, of course, remain wholly unaffected by his experience, but the ways in which a story germ uses the soil of experience are extremely complex. I just love the idea that in talking about his own life and his own process, he's using gardening and tree language, the soil of experience. I don't like our listeners' help on this category. If you have any quotes where really seems like Tolkien wants to fuck a tree, please do email us @hobbsanddragonsanddiva.com. Nature. Tolkien was a linguist. Cunning one, most delightfully literal translation of Elvish or Doravish or some other non-English language that you choose. What do you have for this one? So the Anduin, a river that gets mentioned many, many times, just means long or large river. The Anduin, long river. This is the longest river, so, you know. I made a tracks. And then area door means lone isolated lands, which I like. And then Frodo is based on the old Germanic word, Frodo, wise by experience. I really love that. Frodo, wise by experience. Eventually, fantastic. But I think Big River, yeah. You have a taken a spin down the Big River, the Anduin. Incredible. Oh, man, those are great. Let's see, I probably would have done an Anduin. So I'll hit, I know we're primarily going to focus on Elvish or Doravish. I'll do some Hobbit-ish. Sure. Since we are in concerning Hobbits, after all, Thalohide of the Harfoots store, Thalohide subsets of Hobbits, Thalohide pale skin. Pale skin. Incredible. Pale skin, Bay River. Thalohides were fairer of skin and also of hair. And they were taller and slimmer than the others. They were lovers of trees. Love is a good tree. As you mentioned, that's a great one. And then certainly could have saved this for future pods. But it is, it is mentioned many times here. We get a lot of dynodine, which is Sundarian for just men of the West, West men. West men on the Big River. Particularly, the literal translation part, I think, is very apt here when there's a lot about the patterns of migration and what history was lost or shared in the connections. It's like men of the West, the West men, the West men. I'm really excited for that one in future, because they're just like some really fun options there. All right, favorite turn of phrases, favorite piece of writing or passage from the section, this is just an excuse to read out some of the beautiful language of Tolkien. I'm going to start with a side of silly one. It's not his most beautiful, lyrical language, but reading the sentence out loud was just really fun for me. Wonderful. The theme, that's the sort of the leader. The theme was the master of the shire moot and the captain of the shire muster and the habitry in arms. But as muster and moot were only held in times of emergency, which no longer occurred, the thaneship has ceased to be more than a nominal dignity. So I just think the phrase shire moot, shire muster, habitry in arms are all really fun to say, and then as muster and moot were only held in times of emergency. I mean, it's just like it's fun. It's all fun to say. When you hear moot, King's moot, do you just immediately think of your own? I do. Like is it, it's impossible not to be the same, tough. I love a moot. I love a queen's moot. A queen's moot, for sure. OK, boy, this will be a crowded field. So many, we exist as a great one. I'm going to go with, from the prologue, concerning habits section. And the world being, after all, full of strange creatures beyond count. These little people seemed to very little importance. But in the days of Bilbo and of Frodo his heir, they suddenly became, by no wish of their own, both important and renowned, and troubled the councils of the wise and great. Wise and great, capitalized naturally. Troubled the councils of the wise and great is definitely my runner-up, for I just think that that thesis, and then you think of like, I've been with Danathor, or like, you know, all, you know, or like, what can they out in learn from Mary? You know, like, what all these halls of power do when confronted by these little hobbits? I know. It's, you know, and again, like the white council in terms of their efficacy, I'd say we have some notes for what they got done in the stretch of story running with the hobbit there. So, you know, we had to bring in our guy Frodo to get some shit done, finally. Yeah, that's great. And, you know, I think the, obviously we get a version of strange creatures beyond count in the film opening stretch there as well. But yeah, these little people seemed to very little importance, no wish of their own, important and renowned, just the kind of thesis, like, a little bit of a mission statement right there. I mean, no shire moot and chyrmus, but, you know, well, we'll allow it. - Equally valid in different ways. (laughing) I did just wanna shout out, you know, hardly the last time we will get to say these words aloud, but they're very present in the prologue, very present indeed too. Because as you mentioned already, the crafting of the language, Tolkien is a linguist, it's a huge part of just why this is all exists in the first place, right? And so, this is like a really obvious thing to say, but just say it. So many of these words are just beautiful to say. They're fun to say they feel nice on your mouth, like two of my favorites are routinely invoked in the stretch, Brandywine, which is my single favorite. - Brandywine. - Wonderful and buckland. - Oh, the best and big river. (laughing) - Big river, I'm doing this really. - I'm doing this beautiful. - I love saying that. - Yeah. - So great. I also, one of my favorite sentences in the entire story is here, and it's very much born out of the habit obviously, but of the finding of the ring stretch of the prologue, with them he set out to his own lasting astonishment. We've quoted that on the pot many times. His own lasting astonishment. Your capacity to not just surprise other people, but yourself is one of the great delights of this story. I love it. - I have so many, so many endless notes for the Hobbit film trilogy. - Yeah. - Just cannot stand most of it. - But no notes for leapase. But Martin Freeman, as Bilbo, just running down the road, paper flapping in his hand, like, you know, off on an adventure is just the best. - The best. - The best. - Those feet are gigantic. - They are huge. - This category is called, you know, I had to look that up. - This was a great category idea. - This is what pot prep is for. What do we have to look up, whether it's like a word we never heard of before, or a phrase, or an idea, or something like that? What do you have here? - I want to say, in terms of the gift of this category, I think that it is true that sometimes attempting Tolkien's scholarship can be an intimidating prospect because people have been doing it and such an expert faculty for so long. This category is our little way of saying a lot, we don't know. - We're doing it best. - Everyone's just trying. - Okay. This is one I don't know how to pronounce. Mathem, I think Mathem. - Yeah. - I guess it was just flat out been too long since I've read Beowulf or brushed up on my whole English because I'm like, oh, what an interesting little Tolkien invention. - No. - No. - This is old English, you know, the idea of treasure. So when he says, the Mathem House, it was called for anything that Hobbits had no immediate use for, but we're unwilling to throw away. They called a Mathem. Their dwellings were apt to become rather crowded with Mathems and many of the Presidents that passed from hand to hand were of that sort. - So I say like hoarders. - Yeah, exactly. The idea of Hobbit hoarders and re-gifters, interesting, but also like my fellow merchant collectibles who's using this. The shoe closet completely at a room. I mean, it's, remind me to send you a picture of our entryway to the house where I have like legit no fewer than 60 person sneakers just like out because I can't put them away. I completely out of hand. It's a problem. That's exciting. All right, what's yours? Mine is the office, the job of Hayward. I did not know the sealer, which I did not know. But Hayward, you know, they were Hayward's. Hayward is mentioned. Hayward is a, their job was to protect growing crops on corn and hay from stray livestock, manage grazing animals and commonly in trim hedges and supervise the harvest. Hayward is one of those like fun, hot fuzzy Anglo-Saxon jobs that became a name like, you know, Leslie, Tiller, Mr. Skinner, Cartwright, Wayne Wright, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so Hayward is one of those jobs that became a name. So like the actress Susan Hayward or something like that or shout out Hayward, California, you know, a lovely place, but all based on this job that is mentioned here in the prologue. I had no idea. I didn't either. Snarky is comment. The professor is always welcome to drop some says. All right, we have the same answer here as it could. It could not be any other choice. Would you like to please do me the honor of reading this passage? Oh my God. Wow, really actually delighted. Well, wait, let's both read it. You start, you do it first time and then we'll, like, as sassy as possible. You ready? Got it. Some of who have read the book or at any rate have reviewed it? [LAUGHTER] I've found it boring, absurd, or contemptible. And I have no cost to complain. Since I have similar opinions of their works. Yo. Or of the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer. Savage. Savage. Some who have read the book or at any rate have reviewed it. I've found it boring, absurd, or contemptible. And I have no cost to complain since I have similar opinions of their work or the kinds of writing that they evidently prefer. Incredible. SAS master Tolkien. This is an all the time, we're so good. It's the inspiration for this category. We'll see if the snark continues, but I believe it does. Usually, I mean, in future it will be inside of character but I think Gandalf is quite snarky and sassy what he wants to be for sure. All right, Tolkien invention we take for granted. We have the same answer for this one as well. Tell us. This is the pluralization of dwarfs with the V-Dwarves. Yes. There's something Tolkien invented. I would say the way most people spell it now. When he received first-galley proofs for fellowship, Tolkien was irritated to find that dwarves have been corrected to dwarfs. Elvish to Elfish further to farther and even Elven to Elfin. He pitched a fit and had them change it back. He's like, I'm trying to do something here, guys. He was like, well, actually, if you look at the linguistics, it should be dwarfs. Anyway, his alt pluralization was so influential, it made his way into the OED, as did Hobbit. By the way, there's a lot of contention about whether or not he invented the word Hobbit. He kind of did, but also some people. Many people are saying he stole it from some other things, but he's got the citation in the OED, so not too shabby. Dwarves and Hobbits in the OED, thanks to Tolkien. He has though, ultimately, down the road, he had regret over using Elf/Elves. Like, I think if you were to do it again, he would not have called the Elves. He would have called them something like a word that he had invented, because he didn't like the way that they were then always associated with Elves and Shakespeare, Elves and other storytelling, which are more or sillier, or whatever the connotation of Elf is. And he's like, mine are more ethereal, stately. I would have called them something else if I had thought. - I would have called him. - If I hadn't heard about it. - Oh, fun word that he made up, you know? - Willow isps, sure. That's a thing already, though. Well, a Willow isps is a thing. Willow. - I got melted. - Yep. - That's why we're not the professor. - Anyway, definitely dwarves. - Dwarves, you could think Tolkien for that one. - A lot of, there are so many editions of versions of Lord of the Rings, you can get, but a lot of them have like 50 page intro about, you know, reconciling all of the different spelling versions across editions. It's kind of interesting. - The arrogant was originally named Trotter Award for the fact you wish you didn't know. Not all knowledge is good knowledge. Malia, what do you have for this? - Okay, so despite what I have said, now a couple different times about, you know, it can't all just be the idyllic portrait. We have to see the true full thing. And it is, I think it is important to understand that actually, like this is not the passage I'm about to actually pick for this category, but another passage also on the prologue that hits it this idea about how sheltered the hobbits were. Right, and there's something about the little cluster of Hobbit life that we really cherish, but what is the other part of that? The hobbits named it the Shire is the region of authority of their theme and a district of well-ordered business and there in that pleasant corner of the world, they applied their well-ordered business of living and they heated less and less the world outside where dark things moved until they came to think that peace and plenty were the rule in Middle Earth and the right of all sensible folk. They forgot or ignored what little they had ever known of the guardians and of the labors of those that made possible the long piece of the Shire. They were in fact sheltered, but they had ceased to remember it. So I think that level of clarity is important, I do. But to go back to like the linguistic thing, yes, area door, this idea of like lone isolated land, like where the Shire is and where Brie is, et cetera, et cetera. Like he's like, you know, there's big river and there's like the land where we're all isolated alone and we don't concern ourselves with what happens outside of. - Right, and so I think it is really important to talk about that and acknowledge that and think about what it means to yes, preserve and protect something and enjoy it and cherish it, but also to be kind of willfully shut off and isolated from the world. And while I think that is important, I still also can carry a second truth of my mind, which is I wish I did not know about the Bounders, AKA Shire portal, big yikes! Big yikes! [BLANK_AUDIO] - There has ice, and we don't feel great about that. - This is rough. At the time when this story begins, the boundaries as they were called had been greatly increased. There were many reports and complaints of strange persons and creatures prowling about the borders are over them. The first sign that always not quite as it should be and always had been acceptance tales and legends of long ago. It's a no for me. - No. - The boundaries are a no for me. - Shireboard of patrols are a no. - Terrible. - Shireland security, no thank you. - Gosh, no thanks. - My answer is similar to the fact that our aircraft was originally named Trotter, which is to say Frodo Baggins was originally named Bingo Baggins, and I just think that that would have ruined everything. - Oh, master Bingo. - Bingo was tough. - I mean, Bilbo is pretty silly. - Yeah. - But Bilbo is the star of the Hobbit. Frodo is the star of Lord of the Rings. - Yes. - Yeah. Throw it in the fire, Mr. Bingo. (laughing) - Oh, Mr. Bingo, I can't carry you, but I can carry you. - Like no. - Frodo, for Bingo. - For Bingo. (laughing) - For Bingo. - For Bingo. - For Bingo. - For Bingo. (laughing) - Still, still pretty good. - Still works. - Still works. - Absolutely not. - All right. - Oh man. - As we will do in both sections, we have a category we're just calling appendices, which is anything we didn't get to and listen. We had just a few skip pages to pour over. I think we mined a lot of mathems here. - We did. - Out of the text we had. Anything you want to add that we have not gotten to. - Just want to credit this line, being a fund of simple jests at all times and of six meals a day when they could get them as, you know, aspirational. Aspirational, but also responsible for giving us one of the most important moments in movie history, which I look forward to discussing in the future. - Let's do this. - Correct. (laughing) - Don't think he knows about second breakfast dip. - Let me get to it in the head with an apple. - All right. - Yeah, what color is it? - It wounded a hobbit. It's a red apple. - Nourished dip. - God damn it. - It was a red apple. - All right, that's it for the book section of this podcast. What did Joy want to delight? I can't wait to continue to do this with you. - Unfortunately, I have no interest in doing anything but that's the downside. - That's the downside. - But the good news is, we now get to go to something we already did, which is our conversation with Camilla and Johnny about the first 15 minutes of "Felix with the Ring." We talked about some stuff outside of that. So again, spoiler wording isn't effect, but let's go now to our conversation with Camilla and Johnny. - Okay. Joining us now, it is an absolute honor, dare we say, privilege, thrill, delight, all of it. To be joined by the brilliant Camilla non-Giani who is like us, a gigantic Lord of the Rings nerd. Welcome to House of R, welcome. - Thank you for having me. Yes, I am a gigantic Lord of the Rings. That is exactly correct. - We are so excited to have you here in general. You're welcome anytime. But specifically to help us start this adventure because that's one of the things that the story teaches us, right? Taking that first step out the door, that's the hard part. But then once you start wandering, you're singing, you're doing nine podcasts about one movie, who knows what might happen. We want to hear everything about your relationship to the fellowship of the Ring movie, to Lord of the Rings more broadly. We want to learn what this movie means to you. We're so excited to go through all of our categories today. But we have decided to do this podcast over nine episodes. Now these are long movies and we only acknowledge the extended editions. - True. That can be something to talk about. - Yeah, exactly. - Fantastic. - I mean, that's kind of like the first test. I think anybody who joins us who says, oh, that's a spoiler for our future guest, I guess. - It's a theatrical release. - This is for me, it's probably gonna get the boot in real time, we'll find out. - Wow. - It's wild, you know, because Emily and I watch these movies every year around Christmas or our three watches coming up. And then people ask me, they're like, well, which versions do you watch? Anybody who's watching the movies every year is watching the extended edition. - Exactly, correct. Do you watch them all in one day? Do you space them out over several days? What's the plan? - We space them out over several days 'cause we go visit her family. We sort of do it between Christmas and New Year's. We'll do, you know, it takes us, it takes us about a week to get through them. We'll watch usually generally one disc per sitting. - Oh, yeah, okay, of course. Right, the split disc is a helpful way to like naturally, naturally put it up. We, you're here with, you're here with two people who also have an annual holiday rewatch tradition. This is great, we're bonding already. My husband and I used to do it on Thanksgiving. We have shifted to Christmas and New Year's as a window in the last few years, but really any holiday season, I think, is an appropriate time to delve in. So we'll see if we do the full rewatch. - Oh, we're like over. - After doing this every single second of the film, sure. - So, Kumail, because Joanna and I have, as an act of devotion, love, lunacy and mania. Yes, decided to break up our discussion of this movie over nine podcasts. We are going to, at the beginning of every film breakdown, just remind the people who watch this podcast, which portion of the movie we're actually talking about today. Obviously, we'll talk a little bit about the film overall and it's legacy and what it means to us. But, you know, our hope is that people use this as an excuse to rewatch fellowship with the ring nine weeks in a row and full. That would be great. - Yeah, that sounds reasonable. - Or watching for the first time. I know so many people who have not seen these movies and I find it shocking. - What? What are they doing? What are they doing instead? - Yeah, what are they doing with their lives? - What are they doing? - They're going outside, I don't know. - Do you feel like the younger folks in their 20s, do you think this is a movie that sort of like made past? Like, are they, are they, are they? I know they're aware of them, but aren't they watching them in the way that they're still pretty engaged with Star Wars? - Well, they are engaged with Star Wars, but I kind of think of it the same way that I think about how old I was when I was growing up and watching Star Wars, which had come out, you know, a decade or so before I was aware of watching movies. And so I'm like, oh, our kids watching or the rings, it's been 25 years since it came out, but you know, we were watching Star Wars growing up or the original trilogy and it looked as exciting, you know, and if you rewatch it, I mean, there's some stuff in the prologue in this section of the film where you're like, okay, what I was doing their best at the time. For the most part, these movies look incredible. I don't think they look sort of dusty and the effects look terrible. I mean, Gollum still looks amazing, I think, so. - Yes, I think the 4K transfer while broadly wonderful, the only thing that the character was maybe unkind to was Gollum, but everything else has held up wonderfully. If Gen Z and Gen Alpha and the young people of the world are not watching Lord of the Rings, then TikTok, we can officially say TikTok was a bust. Maybe we could've said that already, but if TikTok is not introducing people to Gollum, what is it for? What is it for? - You think it's Gollum and not Aragorn opening a door? That's gonna get people into. - A background opening a door. - Yeah, most important moment of film history. - I mean, it's such a huge, huge. - I mean, that's what they call the edits, right? Isn't that what an edit is on social media? I sound like I'm 1,000, I'm 40, not 95, but it's the air, it was the air quotes when you said edit. - I don't know, I really don't know. - Okay, so we are in particular, gonna be diving into the prologue and concerning hobbits. The first 15 minutes and change of this movie, that's what our selections for our categories will be coming from, et cetera. And so in case anybody has not taken the opportunity to watch this for the first time, for the 900th time, we're gonna start with a little refresher of what happens in this portion so that people can get their bearings as they listen to our conversation. (dramatic music) Quick plot recap. - Yeah, please. - Here we go. We open with our girl, Galadriel, step into the mic to share a condensed history of a post-morgoth Middle Earth. She zips through the forging of the rings of power. Three for the elves. Seven for the dwarves, nine for mortal men. Now, she takes care to refer to the elves as quote immortal wisest and fairest of all beings. A bit of praise I might have left out before needing to reveal that they were all of them deceived. Really telling on yourself there, Galadriel, just a little bit of feedback. - It's also while she's saying that they're the fairest, she is the one in the foreground. - Incredible. - With all the Vaseline on the lens, just glowing. - Yeah. - K-plant shedding her mouth. - Fairest of them all. I guess, you know, I guess I'm part of the best race ever, but you know, eyes. - I mean, honestly, who are we to argue? Who are we to argue? One note, Sauron. Have you heard of him? - Lass. - Forge the one ring and bent Middle Earth to his will. But not for the last time. Big Saur. - Big Saur. - Big Saur. - We're gonna have to workshop some nicknames in real time. - Okay. - You know, when we cover rings of power, we say hot Sauron, who fucks. We'll see if that catches on here. A little bit of a different vibe. I don't know. He underestimates the power of fellowship. Stop me if you've heard this before. And the last alliance of men and elves, best sim beneath mount doom. Lifting a shard of his father's sword, Narsil, a sildor, cuts the one ring from Sauron's hand and the dark lord bursts like a sonic boom, energy balloon. Something of a signature move that he will return to in a fashion in return of the king. Ah. The ring of power has a will of its own. And a sealed door, finding himself in a bit of a classic, you had one job situation completely blows up. That's tough. Later, the ring betrays the sealed door, and as he floats the top of the end, doing peppered with arrows, the ring travels to the bottom for a little two and a half thousand year river staycation. Tough to see other people live in your dream. Is it the bottom of the rivers where you want to have a staycation? Anywhere by a body of water, I would be delighted. And the ring stays there. Until it ensnairs a new pair. Our guy, Gollum. Granted in a naturally long life by the ring and early to the wellness influencer trend, Gollum enjoys a 500-year poison-mind misty mountain retreat until the ring decides it's time to mount a comeback, only for Bilbo to deliver a clutch scoop and score and disrupt its plans. We shift to the present. Bilbo, working on his book, is the Shire Ready's first birthday, treats us to some hoppin' and shire facts while also briefly freaking out about losing the ring, which he then finds in his own pocket, clutches in his closed hands and presses to his face. I'm sure this is fine. - This is fine, don't worry about it, it's fine. - Nothing to be concerned about at all. - Gandalf, meanwhile, pulls into town and shows he knows walking song ball by singing the road goes ever on as Frodo runs to greet him. They exchanged laughs and good cheer, some veiled concerns and hand waves, respectively about Bilbo's odd behavior and delight the weebs' shirelings with a mini-firework show before parting as Gandalf writes his wagon up to the door of Bag-End. And that's it, that's all we're doing today. - That's it! - We're gonna do hours just on that! - 15 minutes and 10 seconds. - Yeah, that's right, exactly. (dramatic music) - Okay, so before we get further into those 15 minutes and 10 seconds, now that everybody has their bearings, you know what we're covering today. You've already told us your Lord of the Rings nerd, you spend your holidays with loved ones, but with those loved ones watching Lord of the Rings, tell us about your journey with this universe. How did you become a Lord of the Rings fan? What does this story mean to you? Are you a fan of the books? The movies, both, is it a movie-specific love? Tell us about your relationship to the story. - It is a movie-specific love. I've never read the Lord of the Rings books, I've read the Hobbit, but I have not. My love of the movies was, it started, you know, when the movies came out, I was in Chicago, I just graduated, and I would, so these movies would come out around Christmas. - Yeah. - And the first one I went to see with my friends, but after that, you know, 'cause all my friends, all my college, you know, would graduate. They'd all visit their families, and my family wasn't in the country yet. So I would be in Chicago on my own, and my job was to go over to all my friends' houses and feed their fish and various pets. And I loved it, and I would go and watch these movies in the theater on my own, and it was absolutely glorious. I remember, when I first started watching the first one, when that big battle happens, when the two armies run at each other, I couldn't breathe, and I remember it specifically thinking, we have two more years of this, like immediately falling in love with these movies. And, yeah, Emily and I, we watched them every year, and was really fascinating. I mean, there's so much great stuff in it, yeah. I mean, you know, these are such a towering achievement because, as you guys were saying, the effects hold up a lot of it is because it's practical, a lot of it is bigotures. You know, it looks really, really gorgeous. There are so many storylines, and all of them are handled so deathly. Like, as a writer, it's really overwhelming. I would say inspiring, except it's not. It's terrifying to watch someone be able to juggle all of these things so well. Like, I don't know how to even start doing something like that. But what really gets me about these movies is, I watch them differently every time. Whenever I watch these movies, different storylines, I connect to, and also, not to get too much of a bummer, but the state of the world really dictates how these movies make me feel, whether they make me feel optimistic, or pessimistic, or happy, or sad, or whatever it is. Whatever state the world is in really, really seems to change my experience of watching these movies. So, I've watched them. I don't know when the tradition started. I think probably, you know, Emily and I've not been together 20 years, I don't know if it started right away. But, yeah, I mean, this is my favorite trilogy of all time, these are, it's hard to pick which one of these is my favorite. I have an answer that I always give, but I don't know if I'm right. But, yeah, I don't know the world. What's the answer? Yeah, what's the answer I always give? I think the second one is the one I usually cite as my favorite. But, I think, I mean, fellowship is absolutely incredible. So, I don't know, I mean, it's hard to pick. I sort of cheat and say when people ask me what my top five movies are, I put them all all these three together as one and say, "I'm sure, 'cause there's no right to pick." Well, allow it. Absolutely, we love a smuggle. Favorite trilogy, you said. I think it's really got a case for best trilogy ever made. For me, personally, it's one of my three favorite trilogy. He said, "Is my favorite trilogy as well?" It's up there with the Star Wars original trilogy and the link later before movies. Those are my three favorite trilogy. Undeniable. That's my other favorite trilogy is the before movies. The before movies and Lord of the Rings, and it's hard to pick. But I'm not watching the before movies every year. If we just stop at number three, can I say Indiana Jones? I don't think we can call it a trilogy anymore. I choose to. (laughing) There are five of it. It was three, it was three for so long. We got a dialogue destiny on this. Why not? We don't acknowledge Crystal Skull and Dial of Destiny. And I just say, last crusade, what a trilogy. What a trilogy. We did it. As you can probably already tell, we set rules for the pod and then immediately break them. So really anything goes as we go through the prompts today. This movie, Fellowship. So the trilogy overall made $2.99 billion. Is that good? I think so. Pretty good. This movie made, it's incredible. $897.5 million at the box office on a $93 million budget. It is of course directed by Peter Jackson. Screenplay. Fred Walsh, Phillipa Boyans, and Jackson. This movie came out, as we've talked about many times, because we're celebrating this at the 25 year anniversary, December 19th, 2021, and Camille already said this, but just not only the fact that we knew from the jump that we were gonna get those every year, but then actually getting them every year. For me, that was my sophomore junior and senior year of high school when these movies came out. And it was just such an incredible experience to know that that was gonna be a part of like, winter break, something to look forward to. My dad, who was just a massive Tolkien nerd, and I grew up with his Lord of the Rings fandom, kind of guiding me into middle earth. We'd go to the theater and see it. I have such a vivid memory because my stepmom who loved sharing this stuff with us, but was less of a Lord of the Rings fan coming home. We got back from seeing the movie. She was like, who among us fell in love with Sam immediately, and she said, my God, I'm just really worried about Sam. And my dad, who had been thinking about Lord of the Rings for decades of his life at this point said, honey, there's more in store for Sam lies, Gamji. Buckle up, you know, and it just became this thing that we got to share with the family. And, you know, to your point, Camille, about like, what the state of the world, how that impacts the way that the story sits with you, certain aspects, but also just overall. This is one of the great things about a story that is lasting. Right? And this is something that Joanna and I love to talk about with each other, with our listeners. Like, when you grow up with something in your life, and then you get to grow up with it. The fact that we had the books, when we were kids, and then we had the movies, now we get to share movies with other people introduced. We have something like Bring some Power, is it? For everyone, maybe not, but it is for us. It's an excuse to fall back into the world again. It's really just been a wonderful, inextricable part of growing up as a nerd and being a fan of Middle-Earth and movies. So, really just can't believe that these movies came out 25 years ago. And the legacies of the first film, but the trilogy overall, really feels lasting, right? So, curious for both of you, what do you think is the biggest reason that nothing has diminished about the way, whether it's like film nerds, genre nerds? Anybody feels about these movies and thinks about them and the esteem in which they're held? Why has that been so solid and so sturdy over two and a half decades? Well, I will say, I think, on the most shallow level, the fact that visually they hold up so well so much for this practical, there's not a clip you can show and be like, look at how awful this looks or make fun of it. Obviously, there are certain parts where it doesn't look quite as good, but even if you look at King Kong, which he made after this, the special effects age way worse than they do in these movies. The dinosaurs. And I just think that, unfortunately, we live in a time where we don't have the luxury of not thinking about good versus evil, you know? And that's such a big, like, that's such a big, like, running theme of these movies. You know, when you're talking about Samwise, I'm very jet lagged, so I'm gonna try not to get emotional at weird points. - Cry. - Okay, you guys can have the moment. - Cry all the time. - I don't know what's happening. But his little monologue that he gives in the third film by the stories that really mattered. That, to me, is such a beautiful piece of rock. writing and he's so good at it and those, you know, I just find it to be very inspiring and very sadly relevant to be great if you were like, there's no saueron anymore, there's no evil rising, you know, it's all fine, but we don't we don't have that. So we watch these movies and go, hey, maybe, maybe, maybe good can win, you know. It's, so I sit right between you guys sort of generationally where I was in, I was stopped my sophomore year of college when this person became out. So for me, it was the tradition of my high school friends coming home from college every winter break, we would go see the movies. But to remember that it was 2001 when this came out, December 2001, so this movie and the first Harry Potter movie both came out so close to 9/11. And so just sort of like where we were as trying to grapple with, you know, the realities of what was going on, it was just sort of like, it was it comforted escape that we were looking for, was it sort of a guidance of a story where good could triumph over evil? Like, what was it that sunk us into these fantasy worlds? So firmly at that time, but like, you cannot deny that the impact of the unmooring of this sort of event sent us all to Middle Earth or to Hogwarts if you prefer. And it's just like, it remains irrelevant. Like, we talk about like, oh, unfortunately, the state of the world now, but I feel like that's a story of Lord of the Rings is like, Sauron, this all this has happened before and it'll happen again for Sauron and Middle Earth and for us at the same time where it's just sort of like, we're cycling through, grappling with a world we don't understand, an evil we don't understand, and how can Middle Earth and how can Tolkien help us make sense of it, you know, and give us that courage. That Sam gives us or other characters give us or Gandalf gives us. And the other thing you touched on that makes this movie so well is how absolutely sincere they are, you know, like most blockbusters now have that sort of MCU Quippie thing to them, which I really like, I really, really enjoy it, but I wonder how those movies are going to age in 20 years because, you know, humor seems to evolve so quickly and stuff that used to be funny, isn't funny anymore, all that kind of stuff. These movies don't have any humor undercutting the stakes or anything, you know, like, they don't have like something happening as someone going, that's crazy, you know, they're not like commenting on what's happening. They're in it. The movies are funny. The movies are very, very funny. They're funny in the way that, you know, the perspective is inside out and not outside in where a lot of the blockbusters now are sort of almost aware that they're in a movie, you know, the characters talk in ways that sort of, in very written ways. And these characters, you know, when they're funny, they're more character funny and not like observationally funny. Yeah. I, you know, I love hearing the whole creative team talk about the process of attempting to adapt, you know, and this is now in the modern era here increasingly like so many of the stories we cover, you hear the word unfilmable thrown around a lot, right? Like we talk about that with thrones and doon, et cetera, right? And Peter Jackson will say that and has said that many times that rings, Lord of the Rings seemed unfilmable. And so like, oh my God, the privilege to get to be the one to figure out how to do it and part of the, the team that got to figure out how to do it. The, I am just always struck by, because, and this is something that Joanna and I will, we'll kind of chronicle as we go through this. There are quite a few differences and choices that are made in bringing what is on the page to the screen, right? It is, it is not a one-to-one beat for beat adaptation and it really couldn't be. But it is such a brilliant and assured and clear-eyed adaptation because it is not only, you know, such a titanic achievement on the, the tech front and the cinema front and the filmmaking that is on display and the craft that is on display and the performances and the writing, all of it, it is an adaptation that while making the necessary choices, always still centers the heartbeat of the story. And so it is full of such specificity. The world that it ports you in can only be middle earth, right? And it is so charming. And, you know, something that Joe and I talked about in the book portion of, of this episode, you know, how the book opens is this Tolkienian idea of, like, he rejects allegory but embraces applicability. And that is ultimately a much more like welcoming place for a reader or viewer to be because wherever you are and whatever the state of your world is, you can find a connection in these characters. And that means you can find some sort of harbinger or warning that hopefully you can think about and heed, but also you can find some kernel of hope that allows you to make sense of the world around you. And that's what great genre stories do, right? Like, escape is not ultimately the desire to leave the truth of your life behind you. It's finding something that helps you understand the world around you. And this, these films do that so beautifully, the books do it so beautifully. And, like, the number of big themes and big ideas that are here in the opening minutes of the film and then obviously centered throughout, I mean, there's a reason that, like, it's an iconic story. The idea that the littlest person can make the biggest difference. This is the people that you do for a reason, the, you know, the brace of fellowship and community to combat the tyrannical force who seeks not only power, but control, you know, to rob you of the ability to make those choices. There's something so universal and timeless about it. And then the ability to put your time on it. Hopefully that means that whether gen alpha is watching it now or not, they will eventually and then all of the generations to come will as well. I've been, I just worked with a bunch of people who were in their 20s, only one of them had seen these movies. And it's a, on paper, they're such a hard sell because you've got to be like, you have to watch the extended edition. It's sold. And then they're like, it's so long that's 12 hours of movie. I don't love fantasy all this kind of stuff. But I'm like, once you start watching it, you'll be happy. There's 12 hours of this. The other thing that, you know, Peter Jackson is who he is now, but the fact that that's the guy that they were like, all right, go make three of these massive movies is wild. Because if people haven't seen Meet the People. I know. You think, you think this is a tough recommend? Go meet the people. That's the guy who made these movies. Yeah. You know, and he was a great filmmaker, you know, meet the females and, uh, uh, frighteners obviously and, uh, uh, which, you know, yeah, heavily creatures, incredible. But the fact that they tried, how good must that presentation that pitch has been? They were like, all right, here's $300 million or however much these movies cost. Go film the unfilmable. It's amazing. I, the last thing I want to say about sort of the lasting legacy of this though, uh, Camille, you've perturbed me by your report from the, the 20 something year olds. But like, the idea of sharing, sharing this trilogy with someone like, Camille, you talked about watching it with Emily every year. I know Mallory watches it with her husband Adam. I watch it with a big group of friends every year. The same like same group of friends. It grows. It contracts. But it's just sort of like a thing that we share. Yeah. That we love to share. And my love to, like, show it to new people and they're like, what do you mean we're going to spend? Because we do it all in one day because we're insane. And they're like, what do you mean we're going to spend all day? I was like, yeah, I'm going to show up at 9 a.m. Well, they'll be food all day long. And we're just going to watch all of these movies. And it'll be nighttime when we're done. And that's the second practice 11 sees all. We're doing it. So. But yeah, it's like as like an active community. I just, I love these movies. Yeah. Incredible. Well, we're going to forge a new community while doing this podcast. That's just such a treat. Should we get to our superlatives? Let's go for it. Okay. Again, in theory, we will each be making a pic for all of these categories that comes from the first 15 minutes and 10 seconds on this movie. And you would think that's impossible, but guess what it isn't? There's a lot here. It's a lot here. It actually, it actually is not impossible. Yeah. But it's hard to talk about it without referencing stuff that happens. Like there are, we at the top of the pot, spoiler warning, anything that happens across the entire story, fair games to talk about today. Just no, no. If you are one of the aforementioned 20 somethings who is coming to this and you've not seen the rest of the films, you're like, I can't wait to go week by week. Sorry. We're going to tell you all about it now. Pause the podcast. Go spend. Come back tomorrow. It's 11 plus out like 11 plus hours watching these movies and come right back. Exactly. We'll be waiting for you. Okay. We are going to start with something that is pretty important here, but the house of our fashion, yeah, fit check, which character in this stretch of story rock the best fit. I can't wait to hear what everybody picks for this because I think there are actually quite a few candidates. Everybody looks amazing right away. Kumail, who is your fit, Lord? I got to go with Salron. He looks absolutely incredible. That helmet is so badass. Listen, I don't want a fascist dictator, but if I'm going to have one, I want to be dressed like that at the very least, give me some eye candy. Yeah, come on. I actually had that as my pick initially and then changed it because I was like, how many of these categories can I pick Salron for without a feeling weird? But I do, I do think that's the pick. He just looks unbelievable. It's incredible. The only thing that he messes up is that that he should have armored glove over the ring. - Yeah, what are we doing? It's just classic villain hubris stuff, right? - Absolutely. - Like this is Sarah's version of villain speechifying and monologue, I guess giving a cut. - Even if the armor glove is over the ring, like Narsal's still gonna cut all of that off, right? In the film version of it. - Yeah. - Yeah. - I don't know, I would have tucked it away underneath the armor, like hide it. No one needs to see that you flashed in the ring around. - I know. - I mean, everybody else is gonna make do with just a chain or a pocket. - Yeah, so something to think about. - It's right. - Yeah, but the wearing it feels so good once you put it on, you know what I'm saying. - I know, you feel invincible, even though you're not. It does look amazing. Joe, did you also go with an armor clad? I did not go with that. - Dark Lord fascism, I'm so sorry. - Interesting. - I did go in the complete opposite direction, which is just like Frodo sitting at his reading tree, flashing some ankle, like the caprice that he's wearing, and you just get the feet and the ankle and the book, and it's just like, and it's his benders, and he just looks so perfectly young and innocent and clean. Both Frodo and Sam are so clean in this opening, and you're like, guys, you're gonna get so grubby. Your rigs are gonna get so tangled, but just the fresh clean fit on Frodo in this opening, I really like. - Rosie Cheeks, please. - Yeah, go. What a beautiful man, huh? - I know. - I'm incredible. - That first close up on his face. - Yeah. - The eyes. - Yeah. - I mean, I have the color of the shirt in the opening fit there. They're like kind of like aqua, marine teal. It's like the baby blues pop. - Really wonderful stuff. That is a great look. The immediate glimpse of the hobbit feet and the ankles. - What a moment for people with like a foot thing. - Right away. - For free. - For free. - For Frodo putting them out on man for free within the opening minutes of this film, unbelievable. - I am going also with a hobbit, with some hobbit fashion. And I am going with Bilbo's cranberry waistcoat, the little vest, specifically because we are immediately treated to the, oh no, the ring's just right there. - Yeah. - And I am these movies, as we have now established, are so important to me, I love them. I am always like just thrown into a state of barely-containable panic every time they tuck the ring into a tiny pocket. And I'm like that, you're canonically hobbits or between two and four feet tall. That pocket is like three centimeters deep. This just simply is not a secure way to store this, but I do love that it is where they store it or on the chain. And you know, I just think we get a great look at it right away from Bilbo. He looks very dapper. There's a great pattern on his waistcoat. - Is it modern day Bilbo or is it flashback? They gave Ian home a little facelift with some tape Bilbo that you were shouting out here. Specifically, Bag and Bilbo, working on his book. - Okay. - Working on his book. - Working on his book with the, you know, the roaring fire just looks so cozy there. - I'm a real fan of facelift Bilbo though, I gotta say. - I think after the Hobbit movies, that just looks, I thought nothing of it at the time, but it just looks so jarring to me now to see that. Great stuff. Oh, okay. - I love the moment where you can't find the ring 'cause after obviously, you know, Galadriel's narration and prologue, it's all. So happy in a deal egg and, you know, they love pipeweed and drinking and all this stuff. And then that's the first hit you get of like darkness. - Yeah. - Somewhere when you can't find it. It's such dramatically, it's such a good, it's such a good thing to do right in the beginning of that story. - I mean, to that point, like the opening of this movie, the prologue into this little glimpse of Shire Life. The concerning Hobbit's lore download that we get from Bilbo, we get to meet Bilbo, we get to meet Frodo and Gandalf right away. It is just such a depth and effective way to establish, not only the big ideas and the themes and the history, the through line of the ring, the risk of the ring to your point, but like the mood and the tone, it's just all there right away in a kind of incredible fashion to be able to blend the dark looming specter of the past with the cheer and the laughter. Bilbo gets some shots in and his fellow Hobbits, and then that menace, that lurking menace, just right there. - Yeah. - The prologue's like seven minutes, so Bilbo's concerning Hobbits is just a few minutes. I mean, it's kind of amazing when you consider the totality of the runtime. How much they do right away? Incredible. - I think, I don't want to bring up something from later, but I'm going to, I would say the last few times I've watched it, to me, my favorite scene in the movie, is in the third film when they're sitting at the bar, and they're not dancing, they just share that moment with each other. They've been through so much, you can never go home again. So whenever I start the movies, I get really emotional watching how innocent and happy they are. And like you said, you know, they're going to get, they're going to really get put through the ringer, no pun intended, but really, really that, that moment to me is so beautiful. And I always think of that when I start watching these movies. - We talk about this all the time about like how, and we talk about this when we talk about other fantasy properties, but how important it is to show life at the shire, because you need to show, you know, that there's good in this world and it's worth fighting for, like what it is worth defending? What are we trying to preserve? - Yeah, this is the good. You need to see that so that you can understand what the fight is about. And yeah, and I just think this is, I mean shout out New Zealand, honestly, we'll get to it, but like, this is it. Incredible. Okay, the next category is the Poe Tatoes Award for the Most. You're catching a notable line delivery. This can be unique. It can be mesmerizing. It could be completely unhinged. Take it any way you want, Kumail. What is your pack? - I got to go with Galadriel's and nine. Nine were gifted to the race of men who above all else desire power. The way she says power, she puts so much stink on the word. - Yeah. - This and one other line in the movie, that's also in this first 50 minutes, have been playing on repeat in my head. If you're talking to me and I zone out, there's a 50% chance I'm just replaying desire power in my head over and over. - Completely captivating. - Yeah, I understand. I have a similar answer. It's got to be Kate and it has, it's her saying. - But they were all of them deceived for another ring was made. And it's just like, the way she said it, which goes, they're all of them deceived. - I can't. - I can't. - Can't you? Right here right now, just Joanna reading the line. Are you having the same experience that I'm having, which is like, you can feel the score, the way the score changes. - Yes. - Like kicks in, the pace of it, like to feel it. - I almost chose that one. - I almost chose, but they were all of them deceived. - Deceased. - So good. - For another ring was made. - You can tell, you know, if you work with like a vocal coach, they always say extend your ease in speech. And so she's really doing that deceived. - Deceased. - Yeah. - Man, okay, I went like with a different vibe here. (laughing) I have decided to honor one of my favorite moments in movie history, which is the inexplicable, but undeniable, and completely charming way that Sir Ian McClellan as Gandalf says, "Good gracious me, good gracious me." With the pipe, obviously I can't do it. I don't know why I'm even attempting to. Frodo is prodding him. They're in the wagon. Frodo is prodding him about what Bill Bo might be up to. And Gandalf's like, looking sideways at him, but saying nothing, not giving anything away, and does like a little hum, and Frodo, of course, the jovial, all right then, keep your secrets. - Well, but I know you have something to do with it. (laughing) - The pipe is just hanging there, remember? It's like, it's like wizard pipe mumble core, and it is just the absolute best. It's comedic, it's poetic, it's the best. Gandalf, I con from The Word Go. - Did you, yeah, I mean like, Ian McClellan's pipe acting is 10 or 10. Did you, listen to the commentary where they were talking about how they were worried a little bit about how much smoking there was in the movie. And so they tried a version of it that Gandalf had just given up smoking, and so he was just like, sucking on butter sketches for this opening scene, and he was like, not acceptable. - He's like, we shot it with me, just like, like, sucking on some hard candy. - Like a Werther's originally. - Yeah, exactly. - He's like, and then they tried it with the pipe, and the pipe was better. But the Werther's original makes his way to Aron's council, 'cause there's no smoking in Rivendell. - Right, of course. - So the sweets will bake their appearance in Rivendell. - Oh, wow, that's amazing. I think Sir Ian's performance in this movie is one of my two favorite male performances in cinema history. - What's your other? - His name is Bull Ric. - New way, I think you say it from the lives of others. - Oh my God. - Which is a very different movie also about fascism. - Did you? - Really? - Did you see that they're doing a stage show of that in London? - I did, and I heard about that. I'm very curious to see it. - Here at Nightly, I'm very good. - Really good. - Seemed to like. - Oh, yeah. - I just saw that. Yes, Steve Dilling. I just saw that movie again recently. I watched it, you know, when I wanted to, like, get inspired about acting. That's the movie I watched. But Sir Ian best went in cinema history, isn't this movie? Not in this movie, but it's in these movies. - Yes. His, there's so many beautiful, beautiful moments. When they decide to go through, you know, when they decide to go through the minds of Moria instead on his face, and I didn't catch this until, you know, maybe a couple of years ago, I was like, Oh, he knows in that moment he's going to die. And you could see it in his face. It's amazing. I, um, on your sort of, uh, Sam, there's more in star for Sam West Genji when I went out to dinner with my folks after we saw fellowship, my mom who loves Seria and McKellen was like, I can't believe Gandalf's dead and we all just sat there and go, that's it. That's it. That's it. That's it for Gandalf. Get off the gray is done. That's it. Oh, man. Um, the Gandalf lines in fellowship in particular are definitely the quotes in my household. My husband and I love to just quote our favorite movies and shows to each other and Gandalf in this movie has delivered the most essential lines, Justi. Droshti is the thing we say the most without question, you know, you want an afternoon snack? Justi. And of course, is the secret is the safe, keep it safe, keep it safe. Just the best. We, we go constantly. So good. So good. And that moment when they throw the ring in the fire and he's like, there's nothing and he looks relieved. And then there's, there's something in his face. He knows, oh, everything's about to be very different. Especially like, I love those moments too because so because of the use and we'll talk about this more in the technique and in future episodes when this is on to explain more, but because of all of the perspective filming and the way, you know, the, the, the creation of props of various sizes so that everybody could be to scale constantly. Something about the, the number of shots that are filmed at a distance so that we can get the perspective established makes those moments when we are just zoomed in on the crinkle of somebody's face like grab you even more fully like the intimacy and the access to that emotion of really memorable. On the emotion front, let's cry everyone. Time to cry together. Most emotional moment. And of all the credits to the film, I think the fact that we will be able to do this nine weeks in a row and have 45 candidates each pod for this category. One of the many reasons that we love this so much Kumail, what is your pick for whether it's like sad touching emotional in any way, most emotional moment from this stretch? Well, I'm not going to mention the music because that seems to, but I get emotional for the first time when that music first kicks in as the movie starts. I love the line. It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life. Beautiful. I get it makes me teary eye. I love it too. I love that so much. You already mentioned mine, which is Bilbo and the Thrall of the Ring. That darkness that is already there inside of the Shire, and how the filmmakers talked about their concern for this ominous intro Bilbo, but how important I think it is that that darkness is already infected the Shire, but it is Suri in home. Let's talk about another Suri in. He is incredible as Bilbo, and just his like the frantic, you know, fiending for the ring is devastating because, you know, this is this is sweet Bilbo, and he's just worn thin by the presence of the ring. Like butter spread over too much bread. Too much bread. Oh, it's true. God, my heart. My pick is a line that that Joe and I quote often on the pod, but where our hearts truly lies in peace and quiet and good, tilled earth for all habits, share a love of things that grow. You know, hearing that bookline rendered on screen, rendered in the film was just so emotional, but really it's for the reason that you are already talking about Joe like the, and and you come out as well like the what it means for us to see the Shire and meet Bilbo and meet Frodo and meet our other friends in this idyllic beautiful place that is worth protecting and worth preserving and hard to leave. Like not only to know the thing that they're fighting to save and desperately trying to get back to, but the thing that would be so hard for anybody if they were being honest about to shake off the comfort of to rot to deprive themselves of in order to go track through the horrors of the unknown toward like a desperate fade. And so there's something just about the idea that I think is just eternal and always so poignant for us, but the way that Bilbo says it, you know, because there is such cheer and such a jovial spirit in this stretch and then the emotion that kicks in in his voice because there is such a love for this place and there is such a longing and a desire and as we're about to learn, he's about to leave it. So there's also like a he's mourning. He's mourning the thing that he is about to say goodbye to. And when we read, it's powerful right away, the first time you watch it, but when we rewatch to go to Rivendell, which is a pretty sweet place to go. He doesn't have to go to Mount Doom. He's going to Rivendell. He's just like chilling. Elfriend gets staying out. Beautiful. They're the water. When you get to the third movie, I'm going to make a page and you guys consider it. When you get to this portion of the movie, the third film, most emotional moment, I don't think you can pick you about a no one. Okay. Okay. I won't be picking that. I don't think. I don't. But why? Why can't we pick it? Because it's, yeah, it's amazing. It's absolutely incredible. It's so it's gorgeous. It's a great, great, great, very emotional moment. But you know, it's one of the, I would think that you're like name five scenes from the movie. That's going to be one of the ones that people are looking at. Should my most emotional moment for that sequence be how sad I am at arrogant being clean? That's what he was just going to say. He was too way worse than he did when he was all grimy and dirty. This is how I know we're in game. I was just going to say that the most emotional part of that stretch is Eric or Tara not being filthy anymore. It's tough. I don't want an updo on Eric or sorry. I won't grime. What? When he goes to kiss Arwen. Yeah. He goes tongue first. Yeah. It does. A little bit of an open eye too. There's a lot to process. It's not for me. It's not for me. Her dad's right there, man. Yeah. Yeah. True. True. I mean, El Ron, you know, he's, with El Fie's El Fierce, like they're all, he's very involved in their relationship. Yeah. So, you know, he deserves it at that point. Well, he is because he's trying to talk around of it for most of the movie. Yeah. I mean, do you think Liv Tyler was just happy to not be like reclining on velvet pillows for a entire movie? That seems like a great gig. He gets a look at a wonderful water feature. Then you get to chill. You get to be in a dream scheme. Oh my God. I just, this is going to happen a lot, but when he's talking to Arwen, when El Ron does, and you see the her grieving over his, you know, memorial. Yeah. Beautiful. gorgeous. Very good. The child. You did not say there was death, but also life is great stuff. Can't wait to talk about all of these movies in every end, you know, in two years. I think when we rewatch these, it is impossible to not do this. It is impossible to not think of the things that we know and are now so attached to in the future and apply them to how we receive the opening notes. So, like, how can we not think of when Bilbo was describing the shire? Sam talking about carrying a piece of home with him, right? Or when he, at the very end, of course, you know, the fires of Maldon, if Frodo can't, can't remember the feel of grass, right? Or the taste of food. So, what is lost? And what are they trying to regain? And then what will that actually feel like when they get there? Yeah. And that's ultimately the most emotional to me. And to your point, Camille, like, you know, what you said about you can't go home again. Like, we talk about this all the time, save the shire, but not for me, right? Like, the shire is worth defending is worth is worth saving, but Frodo doesn't get to have that, you know, and anyways, spoilers for the end of the spoilers for the end. We told everyone there would be spoilers. That's, I cry a lot in these movies, but that's where I'm just, I'm in control and I'm a fucking disaster. Yeah, we'll save some for the way back. Yeah, the final pages are for you, Sam. And just Gandalf's like, not I will not say do not weep. Oh, sorry. I'm gonna weep. Sorry, Gandalf. Glad he said not all tears are evil because they're going to be plenty of them on this podcast. All right. Fuck yeah, New Zealand. These movies look amazing dazzling displays of natural splendor and abundance, including in this opening stretch here, what does everybody want to shout out from New Zealand? Camille, what are you picking here? I mean, it's so hard, but I'm gonna is this the I want to go there? No, this is just sort of like what wait, you can do that, but like the New Zealand like the New Zealand location that you're just like, oh, hell yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's so hard to really pick, but I've never visited the Shire and they have it. I know. And those, you know, those those houses with the circular doors are there. I want the fact that that's still there is kind of magical. When are you going to go? I don't know. It's just hard. I will go. One Emily and I will definitely definitely. 2027. Why not? Yeah. Let's do it. Live finale of this podcast from Poppaton. Oh, book it. A fellowship or a return to the cake. Return to the cake. So 2028. I don't think we're going to go to New Zealand in the next eight weeks. Maybe in the next two I have a related pick, so I'll hit my next, which is, yeah, seeing Hobbiton rendered on screen, the Alexander family farm in Matamata, New Zealand. If I have to zoom in on a specific element to highlight from this stretch, the sequence where we pan the field of wild, yellow wildflowers, and we get the shot of the mill and the bridge over the stream, and as the wagon is riding across that landscape in the distance, you can really see the point of Gandalf's wizard hat, and there's something to me that is just like that is a crystallization of fantasy, right? The little fantasy element of the wizard's hat magic in a landscape that is real, but seems like it couldn't possibly be. It just captures everything that is just not only so arresting and visually astonishing, but that gives you that feeling in your heart where you're just transported, and then when you think about the fact that that's real, I always have that feeling too. Not only is the Lord of the Rings Fan, it would be fun to go, but I'm like, I just got to see more of the world. I got to get off my ass and see more of the world because look at all of the splendor everywhere you want to soak it up and feel that way. The DVD, so the special edition, the 4K, unless I'm missing something, the new-ish 4K doesn't have all of these bonus features, but the big Blu-ray special edition set that preceded that has just a treasure trove of bonus features. Yeah, exactly. Appendices like so much great stuff in there. It's all fascinating and interesting, but the designing and building middle earth featureettes are incredible. They're amazing to watch. There's in this stretch talking about Hobbiton, overall, and exploring how they rendered the universe. There's a lot of course about Alan Lee and John Howe who had created so many illustrations from middle earth that Peter Jackson and the team admired and how they were found. I was kind of amazing to learn about. Brought on as conceptual artists to help translate this film. There is in the designing middle earth featureette a moment where they go to this place where Hobbiton is going to be built for the first time. People who have been drawing middle earth their lives just can't help it. They sit down, they take out their sketchbooks and they start to draw. The best part about that though is that Peter Jackson himself is the one who got out the camcorders. I have to film these guys drawing Hobbiton in this field somewhere. The layers of that are so, so, so good. And John Howe says you could sit in that landscape and see Hobbiton almost as if you could do an overlay in front of your eyes. Alan and I sat down on the hill above Bagend and started to draw because there was the perfect landscape for Hobbiton. It's just like so wonderful and cool to think about bringing that to life. How much was there, but then how much was unlocked. And in that same stretch of featureette, there's this really, I find this hysterical. I love this amazing moment where they bring Peter Jackson to see how it's coming along because it took them a year. They took the year to like grow all that grass and build those doors. Exactly. This is the thing I was going to say. So they bring him to like check on the progress and the cameras behind him. And he's like, you know, going like this kind of sifling and wiping his nose. And I am watching that. I think that we are going to pan and see that he like us has been brought to tears by emotion. And he's like, it's good. It's good. We need more bushes. We need to make it wilder and more woolly. And they're like, how long can you give us? And they got a year to just grow it to let the plant life actually take root and spread. And it's just, I don't know, like how many, how often does a thing like that happen? It's just kind of amazing. The meta aspect of like we talk about Tolkien as a gardener. We talk about the characters as characters who set out and saw what happened. And the aspect of this film that is like, everything has to be plotted. The previous, the storyboards, but also then the ability to say like, let's take the time to discover. It's just so incredible to be like that pairing of methodical intent with like the room to explore a nurture intent. Amazing. Emily and I watched all those special features back when we lived in New York. So it would have been like 2009 or 2010. They're all incredible. I was just as emotional watching them as I am watching the movies. They're really cool. Yeah. The storyboard animations are like, it's wild. I was thinking a lot about Andor because in Andor Season 2, they're like when they're on the wheat planet and they talked about how they like took all this time to grow this heritage wheat. Yes. And I was like, who's ever done that before? And then Peter Jackson's like, we took a year to grow some grass in New Zealand. We had sheep come in and bite it down and then re-grue it. It was just this whole thing and I'm just like, that's amazing. It's not my pick though. My pick is the Misty Mountains, which are represented in this instance. It's Matukituki Valley in Otago, New Zealand. I would like to go to there. But Mount Aspiring is called Mount Aspiring. Amazing. Incredible branding. I just like that shot, the first shot when in the prologue, golem has gotten the ring and you just like, fuck a drone shot. We're at a helicopter and we're like flying along and you see the mist coming down. It could be nowhere else but the Misty Mountains. It's incredible. It's beautiful. The ring came to the creature golem who took a deep into the tunnels of the Misty Mountains. And there it consumed him. It's so beautiful. Our next category is related. I want to go to there. And the picks could be the same potentially. Everybody's answer could be Habiton. The thing that maybe gives you that feeling most, that makes you most want to go to this place. This is going to get harder in the later movies when everything is. Hellscape. Pretty tough. Hellscape. I want to go to their casa doom. You know, as it has the interest of an industry, I mean, yeah, it's like, I love a pillar. You know, I love a column. Yeah, I'm still gorgeous, even the awful players are. Yeah, but it really is. A bunch of dead elflings in a swamp. Why not? You know, I mean, again, gorgeous. Another water feature. It's out there. Is your answer here? Just hop it in. Well, I'll tell you why I want to go to Hobbiton. Yeah. There's a shot of a Hobbit talking to a woman in a trail of baked goods goes by and he grabs it. Yeah. The Hobbit's only real and passionate for food. I bet their baked goods are so good. I bet they're donuts and whatever they're making skulls, whatever they're doing, I bet it's fucking phenomenal. She's a big sweet guy. I know. She's ready for the smooch and he's like, oh, I'm so good. Go by. That's their cupcakes are so good that they're better than smooching your love of your life. Yeah. That is my, that exact moment is my pick too. It is so perfect. The lean she's holding the flowers leaning in. It's very dramatic and he just the passing tray and the way he turns in the grab and the bite, but it's not just that. We then cut because, you know, we're talking about how they'll love a food. We cut right to the beer barrel montage. So we go, well, this is what's on offer every minute. What do you got from the shire? You got to wash that cake down with something, you know. They have their pie, they're drunk, and they're full of baked goods. I mean, it's like, come on. And then you go home to your fire and your books and perhaps your treasures and your maps. This is just, I have no notes. Genuinely no notes. Wonderful. Yeah. My answer is the reading is Frodo's reading tree. I just like really like love that tree, which is in Victoria, I think. Anyway, I guess I could have a reading tree here in Los Angeles, but it wouldn't be the same as a as a reading tree in New Zealand. So, you know, did you have a reading tree up in the Pacific Northwest in the Bay Area? I'm from the San Francisco Bay Area. Yeah, definitely. They're more reading trees there. Here, it's like Scrubby Joshua trees or something like that. Oh, man. Okay. This next category, this is going to be a fun tradition as we as we do these pods, connecting to a recent tradition of ours when we went through the entire Christopher Nolan filmography and Chronicle on the Dead Wives. This is a passion of ours. Best use of a woman. Was there a single solitary woman? I mean, it's tough. It's going to be have to be Galadriel, right? It's verse 15 minutes. There's really nobody else who's featured. She's phenomenal. I mean, was this when we were introduced to Kate Blanchett? It was. I mean, this is what I first saw her. I think she had done Elizabeth. I didn't. Right? Not sure. This is the first time I saw her and I was like, oh, my God, this is the most incredible woman I've ever seen in my life. It could she's she's like 28 or 27 when she made. She's quick. Yeah. Yeah. She had done. I think she was nominated for Elizabeth in 98, but you know, she's what a run. Incredible. What a run. Yeah, that's got to be the pick. There are going to be plenty of episodes where no women appear and we have to say, this is where we could have put a woman in the stretch of movie. We could have done it. Do you think Bill the pony is might be a woman? Oh, interesting. I always worry so much about Bill. That's a sad moment. That's most emotional corridor right there. Say I'm having to say goodbye to Bill the pony. So sad. Not only is it obviously the the Galadriel prologue. It is the fact that if you turn subtitles on when you're watching this movie, if you treat yourself to this experience, the very first thing that you will see is parentheses female whispers and Elvish. - Mm. - Incredible. (laughs) This incredible stuff. - That's great. Phillipa Boyne's has said that the first thing she put on paper was the world has changed, is like the first line of the movie, and then everything was different about the draft of the scripts, but that stayed forever. The world has changed as the first line of the movie never, never changed. - It's just a fucking banger. - And they were originally gonna have Elijah Wood. Frodo, Elijah Wood recorded that prologue. They were gonna have Frodo do it, and then they were like, maybe the dulcet tones of Kate Blitchett as well. - But if it's Frodo, how long will it be, until we see a woman, other than the one who's being passed up for a cupcake. (laughs) - Yeah. - Incredible. You know, we get Rosie before long. Okay, that was your pick as well, yes. - Next category, "The Did You Know Ericorn Broke "is Till Award for Your Favorite Behind the Scene Fact." This can be about just the making of the movie overall, since this is the first episode, or something specifically from the stretch. Mel, do you have one? - I, you know, I was gonna sort of say how wild it is that Peter Jackson is the one who directed these movies, nothing he had done up to this point, would make you think that he could do something like this. But I guess if we're talking about everything in the behind the scenes features, what gets me really emotional is when there's, you know, I forget which battle it is, when the orcs, armies, like when they start like rhythmically, like stomping their feet to like give energy to the actors. I thought that was so beautiful, 'cause, you know, making movies is such a community thing. It really like ideal age, it feel like a family, and the most beautiful thing about getting to do this is that hundreds of people come together to do one thing, and they're all extremely passionate about, and very aware of their little piece, and they're the best in the world at it. And they, you know, in ideal circumstances, understand how their little thing that they're an expert in is contributing to this overall story that's being told, and the amount of like pride they take, and the passion they have for it, is incredibly, incredibly inspiring. But to me that moment, when they all start stomping their feet to like, you know, buoy the energy of the crew and cast, making this movie, and they're the bad guys, you know? Like just a wonderful reminder of what it takes to do something like this. It's, you know, obviously, we're in a business where there's a lot of egos, and there's a lot of, you know, hierarchy and all this stuff, and it's really, really awful. The hierarchy on sets, it's really awful. It's a little better than it's been, but the fact that people literally use the phrase below the line to talk about some members of the crew, it's, you know, it's pretty disgusting, but then, you know, to me, that story is such a reminder of, it genuinely takes a village, or in this case, I think it took a whole country. - Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, it is incredible to, we have a, a, a, a category coming up, and we'll, we'll celebrate more of the incredible, craftsmanship and achievement there, but that, it is so amazing to like learn more about the number of people who were involved in that, and the, the sheer like tonnage and heft of what they made, and what was required to do it, and the way that everybody talks about it, feeling like the, the, not only responsibility, but the privilege of getting to be a part of like bringing this to life and sharing that together is just, it's really, I mean, fellowship of a, fellowship of a forum, right? For, for bringing our fellowship to the screen. Very, very, oh, for sure. Yeah, I watch the movies that I get like, you know, really emotional about the class of these two tiny hobbits to bring the ring and destroy it in Mount Doom, and then when I watch the features, I get emotional about all these people who came together to tell the story of the class of two small hobbits bringing a ring to Mount Doom to destroy it. - Joe, what is your pick here? Speaking of, we, we already mentioned Jon Howe and Alan Lee, these two artists, they get, they get cameos, I didn't know this, but they're, they're the kings, two of the kings in the, you know, - I did not know that until just now. - Yeah, yeah. - I did not know that. - So they get, they got to row up and like, they already very, very easy, they didn't have to, yeah. - Yeah, above all else desire power. - Exactly. - Yeah. (laughing) - Oh, man, so, and then also, sorry, really quickly, that they call the, you know, so in the shots where, get off and Frodo are together and there's like a smaller man playing Frodo and some shots and a taller man playing get off, the taller man they call him Tall Paul. Paul Randall is the, is the stand-in's name, it Tall Paul. - Shout out Tall Paul. - Yeah. - Incredible. Bumping his head on the beams of bagging. - Yeah. - Wow. - Oh. - Man, my pick is not specific to this stretch, but just to the, the, the making of the, the movies overall, which is Miramax, missing out on making Lord of the Rings because they wanted to make one movie and said, yeah, we really think like it's, it's gotta be one movie. So this is explored in the from book to script feature at on the bonus features and they actually, we're working on two movies initially. Like it was, it was a 90 page initial treatment to make two movies. And then Miramax said, what if we did one? And Peter Jackson is like, can't do it. And the way that Rick Poris, one of the co-producers on the film, recounts it in this, in this from book to script feature at, is that Miramax was like, okay, understood. Like go see if you could find someone else to do this with. And the Peter Jackson had four weeks to go to Hollywood and figure it out and met with New Line. And this is from Barry Osborne, one of the producers on the film, just a quote, Bob, Bob Shea from New Line. Look to Peter and said, now Peter, why would anybody in the right mind make two movies? And then they cut to footage of Christopher Lee Saramon talking about the same thing, which shattered them both because they didn't quite know what he meant. He said, this is three films. Whoa, this is Christopher Lee, Dennis. Whoa, thank God for that decision. So just an incredible, like what if in movie history, like not only the what if this had been given to us as one film, that's like a tragic thing to contemplate, but even just what if it had been two movies instead? And I mean, well, you know, we're watching three movies that are nearly four hours each and the extended editions in every second is something that we deserved. Did you know that the Beatles tried to make a Lord of the Rings movie? What? And they went to Stanley Kubrick and we're like, hey, Stan, will you direct us in this movie? And according to Peter Jackson, this is what the cast was gonna be. Paul was gonna be Frodo. George was gonna be Gandalf. John was gonna be Gollum and Ringo was gonna be Sam. I mean, I would watch, I would watch it. Happily, I would watch it. (laughing) John is Gollum is gonna haunt me in my dreams. John let it in his Gollum. I'm gonna think about that a lot. Incredible. What would his, my precious have sounded like? Why are you asking me to do a Liverpool accent? My precious, I'll think about it. (laughing) I'll work on that. Give it a go and get back to us. Incredible stuff. Have you guys seen the Monkeys movie head? Yeah. Jack Nicholson. I know. I wrote that movie. It's an insane. It's an insane. It's an insane. And that movie is a wild movie. There's so many drugs were involved in the making of that movie. It's an amazing movie. I think all the drugs were involved in the making of that movie. Yeah, all at once. All at once. Weta, we were just talking about Weta. Weta wonders. Most impressive visual effect or creation in this stretch. This can be from our first glimpse of the Shire. It can be from the Prologue. Really anything. Plenty of choices right away here. Come out, let's hear a pick. I think it's going to be with the moment I mentioned earlier in the Prologue and the two armies are coming together because just a scale of it, I don't know if I've ever seen anything like it, certainly not before. I don't know if I've seen anything like it since because it doesn't feel, I'm sure there's a lot of CG involved. It doesn't feel like CG because it always takes care to highlight enough people who are actually real actors, you know. When they're like coming at each other and I couldn't breathe, it literally took my breath away. I think it's such amazing work and in my opinion has not been equal since I didn't think you could even try and do that. I think I think in that moment, you get the line of the Eleven Warriors all like slipping their blades at the same. So cool. So cool. So cool. Yeah. So cool. That's amazing. Yeah, I am always similarly odd by that because it's like it didn't have to, they didn't have to go that hard. You know, like this is a full all these movies, not the whole movie, you didn't have people that hard. Yeah. Like we're not actually, it's not like we're building toward that as the climactic set piece of the film. It's a glimpse of history, but still they made the weapons, they created the armor. And the other thing it does, of course, in addition to kind of like setting your expectation for the scale and the scope of what we're going to be treated to, such a great way so early to establish this commitment. And one of the real like masterstroke bits of genius, of overall the trilogy is just like the different visual identities of all of the cultures, right? Like if you see an else warrior, you know right away, not only obviously because you're seeing certain hairstyles in the ears, but like the armor is going to look a certain way, the architecture when we get to room and delic center is going to look a certain way and we get so much of that just right away. It's really, really amazing. So cool. Yeah. [BLANK_AUDIO] the jewelry is the best. I have a also from the prologue. This is this is where I was going to celebrate our guys are on and the armor, which just looks sick like you already said. I mean the helm insane the the mace incredible. The the the the the Weta Workshop designing a building middle earth Weta Workshop feature at has like a really incredible examination in general of just the armor and how they forged the armor and like learning that that john how was an armor nerd and really was one of the voices saying like you know and he's a person who's drawing like there's a difference between drawing but knowing what it feels like how it moves how these different elements of plate behave and then what they all kind of set out to create together. But Richard Taylor went ahead. This is one of my favorite quotes in all of the bonus feature ads. It's on the the helm specifically. The feeling we wanted to get with Saran's helmet was the feeling of a corpse. Yeah. Of the rotting face of a horse. Yeah. Corpse with those long bone structures coming out of those deep set eye sockets. Socketed eyes. Those great big nostrils. And like you kind of can't unsee that yeah. Dead horse skull is only a dead horse. Listen. Incredible stuff. Dead horse skull is a vibe. And then the the way that they you can learn about how they like I'm not a this I'm not a blacksmith nor am I at add to the list nor am I an expert in putting acid on these but I should clarify I'm also not a black. Oh yeah. There's time. Yeah. Who knows where this project will get to New Zealand and we'll become blacksmith. Exactly. I actually would love to Martin Star. Yeah. Yeah. He actually did do a workshop and learn how to make knives. So we can all do it. I mean it's incredible. Does he know how to make armor yet or will that be next? Just knives. Just knives. Just knives. Not what about swords. It's more to go. This is like when I learned to do it but I can I mean well you know yeah and that's what I you know staying. Yeah. I like that. See can I do that. I can make a sword fantastic. All in the Smiths. The Smiths at home are like a sword. It's not just a big knife. They're firing off you. Great. What credits do I like that sirens out in the battlefield like. Yeah. He's not hiding. Yeah. No, he's not hiding. No. You know, that's that's what we want from our leaders. Yeah. Skin in the game. Yeah. Just knocking 50 people at a time away with his maize. Yeah. Those bodies go flying when he swings. Flying. Flying. I mean frankly you see that and you're like it's a very dramatic moment when he reveals himself on the field of battle and everyone cowers. Gotta come out a little sooner. Oh. You know, some differences page to screen here but that's your note for that one. Okay. Get out there earlier actually. Yeah. In the books is there earlier. Well, it's like, you know, we're talking seven year siege. So it's just and this is one of the this is one of the things that I always love to think about. It's just the sheer time dilation and difference in story on the page versus on the screen, which would be like impossible and not interesting to render and film like. Yeah. And then for no way did 17 years to leave. Doesn't really work in them. So that's when when when Gandalf goes to do research on the ring. Yeah. That's how long it is in the book of 17 years. I knew it was way longer. From Bill from Bill Bo leaving to Frodo leaving. Not yet. 17 years. Wow. Yeah. It's like you mean Frodo. He's 33. Yeah. He's like now 50. Yeah. I'm hitting the road. Aspirational. It really is. It really is. Joe, what's your pick here? It's gone. Yeah. It's gollum. Right. We this is our first shot of gollum. This is a quote from the book. He was a gollum as dark as dark as the except for two big round pale eyes in this thin face. The way that his eyes catch the light like a cat's eyes. Like the flash of green that you get in the darkness there. So it's a great little tease. What's to come really is. By the way, Peter Jackson loves green and uses it very, very well. Like the Dead Army green was in fright. Yes. That same green. I think the ghost look very similar. He loves green and he knows what to do with it. It's true. A friend of ours was pointing out to us that like there are times when you're watching these strategies that you can really tell that Peter Jackson was like a horror filmmaker just like the way that the camera will like swoop in on certain moments. It's just sort of like that real sort of like almost campy horror element. Yeah. The slow motiony type stuff. Yeah. That's like it's a lot of it feels very sad, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Evil daddy. Looking down on a floor of skulls. Yeah. Don't look down. Yeah. That's what a great sequence. Oh, he's got such a kick out of Gimli's like attempt to walk fair. He's like crunching all of us the best. Gimli fucking rules. He's the only one who didn't get the tattoo. Is that right? Here's yes. His stand ended. Here's my favorite thing about listening to the commentary on these. You can rely on a few things. Christopher Lee, who's the biggest Tolkien nerd in the world is going to be like, well, actually the text. Yeah. Well, action. And when Tolkien wrote this like blah, blah, like that's amazing. The hobbits are going to be scamps. Orlando Bloom's going to be boring and very earnest. And then John Reese Davies is just going to bitch about something. He's just going to be because like he had allergic reaction to the like glue that was putting on his prosthetics. So he was like, he was just like, I was just in my room a lot. And they tried to change the scripts. And I didn't bother reading them. I didn't like. Yeah. And like all this stuff like that is sort of like he's just going to be grumpy the whole time. And it's like, but he's great. It does sound like he's perhaps literally kept the filing cabinets of all of the script updates that he didn't read. Right. Incredible stuff. But his stand-in, who was there for most of the movie, did get the tattoo. So it's like all the main actors. And then John Reese Davies's stand-in got the tattoo. So have you guys read the production diaries that Sir Ian McKellen kept? There's a website that he just basically blogging the entire time. Incredible. Sir Ian McKellen surprised that it's blogger proto blogger. Yeah. He kept detailed notes and everything. That's that is one of the great. I mean, obviously just the level of like devotion that everybody had to making it. But I do love learning about all of the different ways that they helped each other based on their respective knowledge. So like, you know, he's chronicling every moment. And then he can say to Sean Assel, like don't forget Sam is supposed to grab Frodo's hand there. And like the fans are going to, right? The fans are going to be looking for this one of the anecdotes they share. We're like, you know, Christopher Lee is a Tolkien obsessive, but he's kind of the one who almost the sanctions the choice to not put Tommy Bombi, Tom Bobbidil in the movie by saying like, "I'm Bobbidil." Yeah, we're going to do here, right? So it is kind of that shared pursuit of talking about that. I love the way you just described everybody's role in the commentary. I mean, it just feels so, like, such a match to their characters, which is a fellowship, a fellowship. See, I think this is very dark, but didn't Christopher Lee also know the sound the person makes when he did this live? Uh-huh, because he was a spy. Everybody contributed so much. Commitment of the craft. I think he's like this. It's more of a gurgling, I think, is this more of a game? Wow, isn't it always so many things. Thank you so much. He's Chris. Right, man. Christopher Lee is like, are you sure you don't want me because he wanted to play Gendolf? And he's like, are you sure you don't want to cast me as Gendolf? I know what it sounds like. What a man that is. Just FYI, I'm just saying that unrelated. You're right for Saruman. Brad Dorif, one of the incredible performance. Oh, man, the best. Everything. He's like the definition of scenery chewing. I mean, he's the voice of Chucky. He's so scary. Yeah. In every single thing. Deadwood. That's right. Shout out the doc on Deadwood. My favorite always the best. I just like saying it, most quotable line from this section. We've shared a bunch already. Who else was yours? Mine is when I was first watching this movie. This is the moment I knew that these movies were going to be really good and not take themselves. They're going to take themselves the right amount of serious, which is a visit is never late. Frodo Baggins. No more is he. He arrives precisely when he means to. And then laughing after that. I was like, oh, great. I'm in good hands. I love that moment so much. That's the best. I'm actually super. Yeah. That's the other line that's always playing in my head. The desire power and this one. So if I zone out 50% chance of thinking of one of those two lines. I wanted to pick that, but I went with something else that I was like really worried that no one was going to pick that. So I'm super, I'm super relieved. That is a genuine iconic moment. People quote that to each other in real life all the time. That's the best. I love that. I hope you do. They do. People in my life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you're late to a brunch, oh, you can uncork it. By the way, Emily always says, when we're out with friends and we're splitting the check at the end when she puts her car down, she always says, and my act. You two and my acts a lot. I do in my acts. That's a great one. In my image. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, what is your pick Joanna? All right. Then keep your secrets. Like, wonderful. Elijah could not be cheekier. Just like the apples of his, just like literally cheeky. Just like, just, you know, with some winking. A little sparkle on his eye there. The best. Those are great. That's from those from the same sequence. Your picks delightful, delightful little wagon right there. I'm going back to the prologue for mine. Whispers of a nameless fear. What a fucking bar. I mean, that whole line is incredible darkness crept back into the farce of the world. Rumor grew of a shadow in these whispers of a nameless fear and the ring of power perceived its time had now come. The writing is so good. The delivery So good, but that also like that what that tells us, you know, we're learning so much of the prologue about the will of the ring, the intent to the ring, the mind of the ring, but also then this aspect of like the unknowable quality of evil. It made me think very much of one of the lines we love from the beginning of rings of power, season one, when also Galadriel says to Eloran, like evil does not sleep. It waits, you know, what is out there lurking? That is just, that is such a quintessential aspect of, of so many of the great stories that seek to examine some idea like that, whispers of a nameless fear. Every time I rewatch the three-habit movies, I'm like, guys, you knew, you knew quite a bit actually. She really should have been on this. Every time, every time you rewatch the three-habit movies, how often is it that you're rewatching the three-habit movies? Less often, obviously, than the Lord of the Rings, children, but I did just do it all last week. It's never, never for me. Once was enough for me. For once? Yeah. To me, it's hard that they went to all CG for the. That's what age is in. To your point about the practical effects in the astrology, the hobbit looks so bad because of the digital effects. It's really bad. The orcs, like the Philly CG, what's in the name? Azog? Yeah. The Defiler. And they shot a guy. They fully shot a guy. Yeah, and the guy looks great. And then they're like, let's make a shitty looking CG, I think. Okay, wait. Quick question for the for the whole pod. Yes. This is when we get our first my precious, right? Gollum with the ring in his hand. Camilla and Johnny, do you have a gollum impression? Oh, I can't. I mean, of course, we say, you know, just my precious, but I'm not good. I'm not good at impressions. I think I can capture the soul of it. I think you got it. He's such a thing. I think I got a lot when my cat, like, finds one of our favorite springs, you know? Yes. Yes. My own. My own. My own. My precious. The best. Okay. Next. Most impactful adaptive decision. This could be a big picture. This could be a small specific choice. Really? This says you guys have to take this. And so I said, you know, you're not a book guy. Yeah. I haven't read the books. This isn't really like a book change or anything like that. But I just think in this particular prologue, the use of the maps, like the way that the maps are shown. And like, John, how it's talked about, like, how this is a road movie and how important it is to show, like, how big the journey is going to be at the very end. And then we end with the map in Bilbo study. You know what I mean? It's just like this really cool, you know, speaking of one of the greatest trilogies of all time, Indiana Jones, like we love to see how things travel around in a map. So yeah, it's my choice, the map. And I do think that the maps were had to be an influence on the Game of Thrones opening credits, even though they're very different, obviously, and much more high-tech, but I get the same vibe. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it is always wonderful to pan across the map. It really just is the best. It's great. And you learn something you do. Like, it actually is effective in rooting you in a sense of place and understanding of the world, but also it just gives you that, yeah, we're hitting the road, we're sharing an adventure. I am, I'm just going with broadly, you know, we've talked about obviously what the prologue is quite a bit, but broadly the decision to do the prologue in that way, which is not how the book opens. So really, I think not only a good choice, but kind of an essential one, it does so much to just catch us up and root us and give the audience their bearings about the crucial aspects of history. What were the key moments? What were the key decisions? What were the key occurrences? And to do it by with the ring is the through line across all of those characters very quickly, while also giving us some of the big themes and the intensity of the score in that stretch is just so amazing. It really does just position you to kind of understand what you're about to what world and what story you're about to fall into. So, you know, hearing them talk about in that front book to script feature at the choices, what were they going to feature? What were they going to not feature? What were they going to condense? Like, though, you can really palpably feel the weight of all of the exposition that they had to establish and how they were going to do it. And it's so interesting to hear them talk about this specifically. You know, the, the, the Barry Asperger said that when Peter Jackson hit upon the idea of doing the prologue, like they wanted to be able to establish the facts, but they also wanted to make it entertaining because it's the start of this big blockbuster, this great movie moment. He wanted something exciting, almost like you would do with a bond movie. I loved that. I loved thinking of it that way and what it achieves just as like a piece of film in addition to just like all of the information in the mood. And then they just said to, to Phillipa, okay, knock it out. We need you to do this. And listening to her talk about this is incredible because this is a direct quote. Peter was, this is so funny to me. Peter was very specific about what he needed. I needed to set up a sildar. I needed to set up Narsil. I needed to set up the Battle of Dog or Lod. We needed to introduce Saron. We needed to introduce the immortality of the elves. We want to track the journey of the ring to being lost and you can't do it in more the four pages. And so that's why she did it. Yeah. I like which she flexes. It's just like that's what I did. It's just great. I mean, it's weird to think of these movies opening a different way. So the books start with just them in in the Shire in Hobbiton and they just sort of, so you find out all that history over the course of the story. Yeah. We there's a. And correct me. Am I correct about this? That in the Hobbit movies, the ring is just like a fun invisibility ring that he finds. And then later it gets recast as this ring of power. He talking did retcon what the ring was, like when he first wrote the Hobbit. When he first wrote the Hobbit, he was like gollum's like, I'll give you this ring as a prize. If you if you get this, you know, if you like he was just going to give it away. And then in in Lord of the Rings, in the prologue, Tolkien retails the story of that riddles in the dark part of the Hobbit. And he's like, this isn't how Bilbo told it originally. This was another story that he used to tell, but this is the true telly, but Bilbo still swears it's in this other way. So he like blames Bilbo as an unreliable narrator for one of the biggest retcons in all of literature. That's really incredible work there to be like, I want to write three more books. I think this little thing will be that's the thing. It's the ring of power. Amazing insight. Yeah. You really have something here. Real five star prospect, all the tools, you know. Most relevant idea. Most relevant idea to encounter in 2026. Yeah. Kumail, what's your answer for this? I think, you know, again, not to get too real, but it's so relevant that in times of political upheaval, nobody can sit on the sidelines being what a political is a political choice by not engaging you are picking a side. You know, these Hobbits don't want to do this. The last thing they want is to get embroiled in this, but they have no choice. You have to. And if you don't do it, well, you're kind of taking the side of the oppressor. I mean, yeah, the fact that the fight comes to the shire, the shire thinks they can just sort of stay out of it and they'll be fine. And then it comes to them anyway in the book, not in the movie. My answer is from the prologue. It's from the prologue when she says much that was once was is now lost. And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost. History became legend, legend became missed. So that idea of like, this has happened before, you know, as we talk about sort of the rise of fascism, however, you want to position it, it's just sort of like we went through, we've gone through this. We've gone through this. People just forget it. Yeah, it didn't even happen thousands of years ago. Quite recently, in fact. And people are still alive. Yes. People just forget or they think of it as like stories that old people tell or wasn't that big of a deal or whatever the case may be, or it's not the same, but it's just sort of like, you know, if you forget, his or your doom to repeat it. And that's just where we find ourselves. And that's what happens with Sauron just keeps coming back, you know. And it's shocking just how similar it is to want to happen the last step. It's exactly the same thing. Almost nothing is changed. Yeah. I mean, and especially in a world where there are some, you know, you got emotional talking about Sam earlier, we always, we maybe the thing we've cried about the most over the years of potting together is Sam talking about were, we're, you know, we're in the same tale still, right? And the idea of the stories that connect us, this is the other side of it, right? Because there's so much that's empowering and beautiful about being able to recognize those connections and those tethers to your history and to think about how what you're doing in the moment might influence the future. But what happens when you lose sight of those same lessons, right? And it's just, yeah, it's like really an incredible part of this, of this story. We all kind of went with the same general idea here, which is the world is really fucked up right now. And there are a lot of things in Lord the Rings that make you feel hopeful and there are a lot of things that make you see how, how damned we can all be. So I, you know, I think that the, the lines we've talked about already in the prologue, Nine Rings were gifted to the race of men who above all else desire power. And then later when, when we're going through a sale doors history, but the hearts of men are easily corrupted, you know, when we think about like arrogance journey or what we see in Rohan and Gondor like, there's going to be so much that we talk about both inside of the race of men and of course across the different cultures about defying what you think has to define you, right? That's so much of it's like the thing that you think is in your blood, it doesn't have to be that. There's so much that's hopeful and aspirational, chart your own course, decide who you want to be, decide to make a difference, decide to give a shit. But like there is also this undeniably in the story, right? The and the weakness and the lust and the need always for more. And when you took hold of that men a week, men are weak. Like it is, it is harrowing. And it's important because, and this is so president so many aspects of the story, you can't really appreciate the lesson and the breakthrough that we see. And this is kind of the dark version of show us the shire, right? It's like what is the, what does the fall look like? Like what is the cautionary tale before we can see what our heroes are in a little void? Before the sun shines out the clearer, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh, grim. Yeah, it's always, it's easier to not fight. So much easier. Those are iconic lines. Those are iconic ideas. And there is no shortage of iconic stuff. In not only this movie in the trilogy, but just the first 15 minutes, again, astonishing. How many cadenders there were for most iconic moments just in the beginning here? Most iconic movie moment can mean anything. It can be iconic to you. Something that you're like, this is the most iconic moment in people, like what the fuck are you talking about? It could be something that is undeniable, you know, considered by everybody to be one of the most recognizable and indelible moments in movie history anywhere in between. What are you choosing for most iconic movie moment? From this whole thing? From this stretch or the whole thing? You could do whatever you want. I'll say that the storyline that moves me the most in the first movies, and it didn't really start moving me until recently as Boramir's death. My king, oh, it's so beautiful. This performance is so, so good. 'Cause he's such a little ship for the whole movie. You don't like him, and then that little like moment at the end when he calls him this king, oh god, it's so. Beautiful. - My captain, my king. My answer's, my answer's deeply dumb and comparison to Camille picking one of the best moments of all of cinema history, but in this section, in the 15 minute section, I'm sorry, but I'm giving it to no admittance except on party business. Just that shot of the sign. This is so dumb compared to Boramir, I'm sorry, but like, Daniel Reeve, who's the calligrapher at Weta, who like hand littered that sign, like there's just been a million imitations of that sign. That sign is so iconic. People have it on their dorm mats. People have it on posters. People have it like whatever. People use it for their weddings. People use it for any kind of thing. So just like thinking of Daniel Reeve a calligrapher, Weta just like sort of hand littering that sign and how a million iterations would come from it. I just think it's beautiful. - How would we have teased this very podcast on Instagram if not for that? Something to think about. - A question for the ages. - The other moment in that fight that I'd never seen was I've never seen somebody bow and arrowing people like a foot away. They're so close, it's incredible. - I mean, you have to be able to move with a real quickness to do that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Not for me. I don't have the reflexes or the dexterity, I don't think. But I always am at all watching the elves do it. Incredible. My pick for most iconic movie moment from the opening 15 minutes specifically is a Seildor lifting the shard of Narsil to cut the real off of Saranshan. I mean, the fact that that is different than the exact version of events from the book, it is one of the things where I'm like to, this is just actually the version of events in my mind. Now I think it because, you know what I mean? It's like it has actually replaced. - Yeah. - Because it just, I don't know. There's something about the way it is filmed and the drama of it that is so arresting when you see it for the first time and it sticks with you. But, you know, thinking of it as an adaptive change, it also just really, I think, it's smart because it's tidier in the movie. But it also kind of then heightens all of Aragorn's angst moving forward like what weakness did he from a Seildor? What is that? What part of that legacy does he need to see Karen and Fear? So getting to see a Seildor even more connected to that moment than, oh, Gilgalad and Elendil, really incredible duel and everybody's like, mortal form is dead now, time to cut the ring off. This is just like, yeah, this gives us everything we needed such a heightened form there. And the ring. - And the country with him, him on the horse with the ring around his neck, it's so good. - Do you guys have this experience where no matter how many times, 'cause it sounds like we've all seen this in these movies, like a bazillion times. No matter how many times I have watched this movie, I do kind of forget, even though I know Elendil reveal the full truth, later in "Farriage Romantic Four". - No. - Yeah, destroy it. - Waiting for the sequence inside of "Found Doom". It comes later. - It comes later. And like all of that, the restraint here, the drama of the ring cascading, looking at it in the palm of a Seildor's hand as it starts to kind of shrink. Oh my God, it's just perfect. It's just perfect. - Yeah, the shrinking is amazing. The ring itself is like a marble of design later when it, you know, studs on the floor, that's amazing. I always think of that kind of stuff. Like, do you, I wonder if the choice to put that bit later was made later in the edit, you know, 'cause editing obviously is so important. It changes everything. - Yeah. - And I wonder if, I wouldn't be super surprised if that was originally scripted to be in that exact portion we're talking about, and that was later moved to later. - I mean, yeah, shot with it for sure. And I know that they talked back and forth about how like, new lines like you have to have a prologue. And they were like, okay, so four weeks ago, they put together the prologue. And then new lines like, but it has to be two minutes. They're like, oh, we can't get this down to two minutes. - About seven. - Seven minutes. - Seven and a half, well that do. But I'm sure like, as they're trying to shave it down, perhaps they were like, oh, we'll just do the sealed-door L-Ron thing later. Like, we'll cut that over there. But yeah, the way that they talk about how the point of view, they were trying to figure out whose point of view the prologue should be from. And then they decided that it should be from the ring's point of view. I just thought that would like, they're like, the ring is a character in this movie. It's an antagonist of the movie. They're like, it has a relationship with all these people. And so it's the ring's point of view in the prologue. And I was like, that's amazing. - On the most quotable lines front from a later episode, but it wants to be found all time, right? - Yeah. - All time, right? - It wants to be found. - Chills. - That's brilliant. It's a thing that when you get notes, they always tell you, what can you give it more of a propulsive opening? What can you do? If you watch now, a lot of movie streaming movies start with a flash forward, because you're competing against so many things, you can just click off. There's not something you rented and paid for that you have to watch. And so now everything has a version of that prologue. But I think very smart to do it 25 years ago, but you are asking people to invest in this huge thing, which other than, I know your family is very into it, but this isn't like IP that's on the forefront of people's minds, you know? - It's interesting that reminds me of how like, music has changed in the streaming era, where musicians now have to put the hook of the song at the beginning of the track, because people aren't listening to albums anymore. So you have to like, you know, the hook is there to hook you, but they start the song with the hook, so people won't click away to the next track. - It's really, you know? - It's so, the other thing in the streaming era, is so much of how we tell stories has changed. You also notice they're always constantly reminding people of the stakes in the story over and over and over and over because people are on their phones. - Look at other phones, yeah. - Yeah, not fully paying attention. So it just really has changed how we make and digest stories for good and for bad. - Do you think, given that need to have the hook early in a song, Gala would rework anything about his musical endeavors? "Juicy Sweet" "Juicy Sweet" "Juicy Sweet" "Juicy Sweet" - That song is all hook. - Oh yeah, it's all hook, that's a banger. No, yeah, no chaff on that. The fact to be tripped from that song. But if these movies were made now, every 25 minutes someone would be like, "Well, we gotta take the ring to mild doom to deserve it." - Or else Sauron is going to enslave everyone. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Sauron, all right, here we go again. - See that flame guy, well, that's Sauron, man. - You gotta take care of it. - You have a nameless fear. - Also, not sure if you've heard, but men are weak. - Men are weak. - Men are weak. - Men are weak. - Men are weak. - All right. - Lastly, yeah, the MVP of this section, the first 15 minutes, this can be a character, it can be a performer, it can be a creative decision, really any aspect of the movie or the production is eligible for selection here. - Oh my God, I didn't realize I thought I had to pick a person and now I'm overwhelmed. Why don't you guys go first? - Okay, I'm gonna pick Howard Saur, the Saur. 'Cause we haven't talked about the Saur enough and it is fucking amazing. The Saur is just so, Joanne and I years ago when we were covering rings of power, treated ourselves to really just because we wanted to. We did the music of Middle-Earth special episode and we went to Chicago to see the Lord of the Rings musical and sobbed in each other's arms. - And it was beautiful. - It was great. - It was beautiful. - It was beautiful. And just everything about the music is such an essential part of this world in this story. What the score achieves, it's like the soundscape of the movie in general is so indelible. This is the kind of score I think for all of us for all Lord of the Rings fans. You hear just a note and you'll just be like hoarded. - Ba-da-da, ba-da-da, ba-da-da. - And you're just like, "Oh, see it there." - Yeah. - Feel it, you know where you are on the map, you know which characters you with, you know what level of aspiration. or peril is confronting them at that very moment. And in this opening stretch, I mean, in the prologue, we already talked about that like kind of propulsive pacing. When you get the kind of coral chanting for the first time, it's like buckle up. We are about to be on the receiving end of something very special here. And then the musical composition and the shire sequences, like I don't know anything about music, so I probably don't actually have the ability to identify any of the instruments that are on it. But you can, you know, you hear like the flute, like the light, you know, the way that the instrumentation is able to convey that sense of like a carefree, idealic splendor, and heightened that sense of like, "Oh, how wonderful would it be here? "Would it be to live here and how hard would it be to leave?" And then the menace when we're watching the prologue, I mean, it's just incredible, really, really good. I truly believe that when you're watching something truly great, you know it immediately. As you start watching something, you're like, "This is really good, and I don't know exactly why yet, "but I can tell this is gonna be great." And the music here, in general, that feeling is a big part of it. Like, you know, if you start watching, like, terms of endearment or something, and the first 20 seconds, you're like, "Oh, this is a great movie." And I think what the music kicks in. - Sob for two hours. - Yeah, give it a great. (laughing) - You know what's shocking about that movie? Obviously, real tear jerker, genuinely a tear jerker. So funny, it's got so many great jokes. - Jack Nicholson, you know, writer of head. What can I do? - What can I do? - Multiple mentions on the box today. - What can he do? Who's your MVP? What's this section? - Well, this is lame compared to Howard Shore, for sure, but I won't, not lame. Shout out, Dan Hanna, who's the set, you know, you were talking earlier about like, every single person and whatever they did to make this world feel real and inhabited. And I think the shot that we get in this first 15 minutes where the camera's just moving through Bagend. And we just see the piles of books and the quills and everything and how lived in that is. Dan Hanna is a set decorator on Fellish, on Lord of the Rings. And I just think the work that he does in Bagend specifically, but like everywhere is just outstanding and amazing. When you see the Shire or Hobbitin and you see all the grasses and like that, I think that's amazing to see like the Bilbo birthday sign go up to see a man like sleeping next to a pig. Like all this stuff is good, but I'm an indoor cat. And so I'm just like, put me in that study with Bilbo. Like put me with the piles of books all around me. That's where I want to be. So, incredible pick. That's, I also love a fire and I love books, but I really get there in our next episode, the next stretch where you get to see all of the food. Like it's just a nice, a wheel of cheese, a wedge of cheese, some nice bread, a kettle for some, for a cup of perfect. What a wonderful home. - I'm gonna pick something, I don't know his name, 'cause I just made the decision right now, the person who designed the ring. It's such a beautiful, simple and iconic design. - Yeah. - It's just a gold band, but it's gorgeous, and I'm sure so many people have like wedding rings designed off of that. - You guys can you take a look at that. - Well, so one of my favorite little, like this could have been the behind the scenes, and I'll get from our behind the scenes, Rick Poris, the aforementioned Rick Poris, one of the co-producers on the film. So they, as I recall, they did commission a number of metal workers and jewelers to actually make these rings, and different sizes and different versions, they were testing them. But because of the use of perspective, obviously the storyboard phase into the previous, but then into the actual staging on the sets, they had to like test everything about how they were gonna film these movies, right, because the angles had to be right. They had to know exactly where to put the cameras for the scale. And so, as I recall, in testing the Gandalf Frodo bag end sequence, Rick Poris just used his wedding ring, and when it dropped through the envelope and hit the ground and made them, they're like, wait, isn't just, isn't that? - Is it just his wedding ring? - I slightly tweaked the props to basically just be like the gold wedding band, yeah. Which is interesting, 'cause you do, you all, I always watch it. I'm like, it is the simplicity of it is surprising, but of course that's part of the point, right? That all of that menace and evil and capacity to control and to rip the will of others away from them and just store it in that tiny little space, and it could be such an inconspicuous small thing. The evil nefarious version of the hopeful, beautiful, the smallest habit in the world can go save the day, it's just like perfect. And then when the, I mean, gosh, when the black speech, yeah, shows up in the fire. - Renders for the first time. - In court. - Would you say, because the ring is so nondescript, they were all of them deceived. Just something like that. - Even the wisest and fairest among them. - That's the big, evil doesn't always look like evil. - Yeah, man, great stuff. I think that young Hanson is how I'm guessing you pronounce it as the name of the actual Goldsmith who made the rings. But based off of, yeah, great pick. - Imagine for the rest of your life getting to be able to say, I did that, I made that, that was me. It was me, young Hanson. - Lord the rings, I made the one ring. - The one, the one ring. - Just the one ring. - Lastly, we are gonna wrap with something we're calling appendices, which is basically just an excuse to anything that we didn't get to say. If there's anything you wanted to shout out, either from the first 15 minutes, or anything about any of the movies that you're like, guys, until I rejoin you, either for two towers, my favorite movie next fall, or from New Zealand. - The year after that, I'm from New Zealand. I wanna make sure to get this on the record now. Anything else you wanna celebrate, or shout out about the movie and your love for it? - I think the special effect of "Their Dead" going from old to young. - Yes. - I don't know how did it that have watched it so many times. There's not a moment where it feels like anything's happening, but within, however long it is seven or eight seconds, he looks completely different. And the reason I thought of that is because one of my favorite moments is right before it, the Gandalf's wink, which is the best cinematic wink of all time. It's so good. It's such a good wink, it's barely anything. It's so perfect. I wanna see other takes of that wink. - Oh my God, that will be so exciting to see. But that special effect of him, you know, becoming himself again is spectacular. - That's a great one. Shout out "Their Dead" and "King." - Yeah. - Can't wait to spend more time with "Their Dead" and "King" next movie. - Thank you. - Next year, maybe? - The best. Anything for you and appendices? Anything you wanted to shout out? We did it. We did it. Kumail, what a treat. Thank you so much. - Thank you for doing this. - Oh my God, thank you so much for having me. You know when they, when I got the email to do it, I was like, I was supposed to still be working tomorrow and then my schedule changed. And even if not, I'm like, you know, I was like, oh, I gotta make time for this. I have to do this. It's too important to not. (laughing) - Thank you. Thank you for making the time for me to do this. - I'm so flattered that you chose me as the, you know, the first 15 minutes. - Of course. - Really, really, truly am. So flattered. And they're like among my favorite things in the world. I know I've gotten, you know, I'm always excited to watch these movies again, but now I'm like, oh, do I have to wait a month and a half to start? Can I start now? - Do it all now. And then do it again in a month and a half. - Yeah, exactly. - Why not both? Why not both? Kumail, seriously, thank you for the time. Thank you for becoming the first member of our fellowship. - Of our fellowship. - That's true. Thank you so much. - It means a lot to me. Thank you for having me. - We did it. - We did it. - Our first, but not our last. - Rewatch, and reread, journey through fellowship of the ring, 25 years. - Wow. - Sheesh, we're fucking old, man. But you know what, I feel right now in the bloom of use. - Young. - Who are we thinking? - Alive and invigorated by this experience. Thank you, dude. We have two fellowships, the guests who will be joining us, but the fellowship we always have with us, making house of our. - Carlos, Chiraboga. - Star. (laughing) - Now you have to say something nice about everyone. (laughing) - Are they all stars, like Carlos? (laughing) - Jamie Eukich is gonna be editing. - The ring's pods, what a treat, what a thrill. - A pearl. (laughing) - Jacob Cornett. - A diamond. - Oh wow, a diamond. - He really is. - Uh, Jomia Dehron? - The apple of my eye. - Are Juneram Gapal? - A king. - A dark and stone. (laughing) - Just gonna say it. - A dark and stone. - Who else have we not thanked? Let's see, Scott Lee. Obviously, Jonathan Ratliffe, Kevin Jack, the whole team here at Tikmore, because we're like, guys, we want to talk about Lord of the Rings and they said. - What if? There was ahoven. (laughing) - You have my set deck. So this is amazing, we're excited. Do you like, maybe there will be even more when we talk next time? - Yeah. - I mean, now it's gonna be awkward if there isn't, but you know. - I at least have ordered something else for the set. You know, we're doing our best. (laughing) - Episode two, Reminder. - Is that the organ? - Is that the organop? - Yes, the organs. - You know, which is wonderful to see, though I had just bought you those for a birthday present and forgotten to give them to you. - Oh. - Spoiler. - Oh, I'm so excited. (laughing) - I don't know if it's the opposite. They're wonderful. I'm excited to give them to you. - Oh, really? - Yeah. It's delightful. Next pod, remind us, what is the material We are coming. - Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you mentioned that. So the next pod, the title of the episode is Billbo's birthday. The chapters are chapter one. Along expected party, chapter two shadow of the past. And that's it. And the film up through Fredo and Sam starting their journey alone. That's 43 minutes and 48 seconds ish. I just went back through all the timestamps to make sure they were right. On the extended edition. That's both on sort of like what's on HBO Max. Also the ones that I've purchased digitally, that is the timestamp. 43 minutes, 48 seconds. The first two chapters are finished. The ring. Fantastic. And again, if you're like, what about after that? Check the show notes, check the schedule that we posted on the at house of our social. Check the beginning of this podcast in which I read them all. (laughs) And we'll see you on the road. Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]