Feeling stuck? Take a side quest.

Has life got you down? Feeling stuck in a rut, like you just can't get out of your own way? Maybe it's time to try a side quest. In video games, side quests are like little adventures off the beaten path that make the bigger adventure feel worth it. In real life, there's not much difference. You're engaging with something not for the win or for the money, but for the pure enjoyment. It may be a 20-mile walk. It could be learning how to knit a blanket. It could be even waking up to see the sunrise in a place you haven't been before. All over social media, people are sharing their own side quests. I want to go on a side quest. I want a side quest so hard that I end up taking like culinary classes in Paris. So I finished my first side quest of the year, and that was by getting ordained. So that is going to go into my side quest journal. Today, I'm here to share my side quest. I'm here with Marielle Segata, host of Life Kit. Hey, Brittany. Dr. Kira Gaunt, Associate Professor of Ethnomusicology at the University at Albany. Hi. And Sahara Monet, Curator of Let's Play NYC. Welcome, Sahara. Hi. To find out why people are side questing at this moment, what place play has in our lives, and how to find the perfect side quest for you. Hello, hello. I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident. And a reminder, if you love It's Been a Minute, which from the sweet comments y'all have been leaving, it sounds like maybe you do. Be sure to follow or subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast app. That way you get new episodes the moment they drop. So happy to have you here. Okay, so we live in the United States, and we live in the United States, and we live in the United States, goal-oriented society, gym goals, health goals, career goals, that it's really interesting that side quests are taking off right now. Kira, why are side quests trending? What do they do for us as adults? I think of side quests like play as practice for adults. They're about not knowing. And you're going to ask me, what is not knowing? Yeah, I was going to say not knowing what? Because I don't know either. What don't we know? Adults spend so much time in environments where they're trying to control the outcome that play as a practice becomes about not knowing, not having an attachment to what the outcome is. Side quests release us from worrying about the outcome. Learning begins with inquiry. In fact, the word quest comes from the root question or inquiry. So it's not about inquiry. It's about inquiry. It's about inquiry. It's about inquiry. Answers. It's about the journey. That's very different than sort of like the goal-oriented framework that we're discussing that a lot of us live within. Yeah, it's not if you know, you know. It's I don't know. It leaves me with, yeah, and that's okay. In fact, that's what we're striving for. If you asked me, I'd say it's about exploring your curiosity, like really, as a skill, exploring what curiosity is. And I think that's what we're striving for. I think that's what we're striving for. Curiosity is not just an I don't know, but I don't know what's over there. I hear you laughing, Sahara. Like, how does that line up with your attendees' experiences when you have your Let's Play NYC events? Yeah, it's interesting because I guess my interpretation of it is trying on different realities. And then the trending aspect of it is social media almost makes it so much easier to that maybe you didn't even thought of or knew that you could try. So for a lot of the folks that come out to the playdates that we host, some people are more interested in trapeze or ninja parks and others are interested in salsa dancing. So kind of picking your own adventure is a part of the side questing experience, too. I really want to go to the ninja park one. It's a good one. Full disclosure, I've been to a couple of the events through Let's Play NYC. I went to the salsa one and I went to one at a crafting spot called Recess Grove. Sort of a community art space is how I would describe it. Sahara, we had an episode on Life Kit about play and I actually interviewed Stuart Brown, who was the guy who came up with those eight play personalities. He'd walked me through them. I thought it was fascinating. You've talked about this, too, right? Like, you think about play personalities. Yeah, I think the whole like choose your own adventure aspect of it. I know for me, at least in my own practice of play, it is all rooted in my upbringing. Like I studied musical theater when I was in high school and then I also was a competitive athlete. So in different chapters of my life, play has come up in different ways. And in the personalities, I know some of them are more movement modalities or some are more spontaneous and some of them honestly are more competitive. Like you like games, you like sports. So it's interesting how play as a practice shows up differently in different seasons. And then for adults, I'm sure who are experimenting with side quests, sometimes they may want something a bit more rigid or routine based. And in other capacities, they're like, hey, I just want to, to your point earlier, Brittany, like go on a walk in a different neighborhood that I haven't been yet. Yeah, I took the quiz because I heard, you know, I knew we're going to have this conversation and I was like, oh my gosh, what play personality do I have? I found out that I was a split between an explorer. Oh Lord. And I can't remember the other one. They're fancy names. They're very fancy. There's like the kinesthe, which is the, the sort of athletic movement oriented one, the competitor. Are you a storyteller? I think storyteller was the second one. I had equal storyteller and explorer. And then artist was after that one. And like anything having to do with being in charge of other people or organizing things was at the very bottom. Interesting. A lot of people often think of what you loved when you were a kid, because we were naturally curious. And I like to encourage people to do things that you don't know to do. So this is mine. I can't draw. That's what I thought. And two summers ago, I went to a drawing class because here in small, Benny, New York, I call it sometimes there's not a lot to do. And I went to a drawing class. And the instructor, there was a figure, a human person standing there was supposed to draw. And I'm like, I can't draw. And he said, look at the figure, look at the woman standing there and let your hand follow your vision. And one of the best things about not knowing is that you don't know what the impact of what you're doing may be on your life and on your character. So the next day, my writing was easier. My writing was better. So I think side quests, just like in the game, it's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know what I'm really makes the main quest stronger. It gives it more nuance. It gives it some new dimension, or it actually brings out a facet of you that you convinced yourself you couldn't do. It might turn into a hobby and it might not. That's the whole point of the side quest is it's about the moment. I love that. I love that. Wait, I wonder, like, how do you know when it's time to take a break and go on that ride? I know for a lot of folks, it can come out of conflict. It can come out of a really hard breakup or some stress and maybe some positive transitions in your life. But that catalyst can also be like the birthplace for really exciting character development and side questing. You know, a lot of folks are running marathons and trying pottery classes and different things like that. So the timing of it can be from a life experience or again, maybe social media. You see someone doing an activity that you didn't think about yourself. Yeah, I think if you feel like work has become your life, it's a perfect time for a side quest. If you are venting a lot about your boss or your family, if you think you know everything, you need a side quest. You need to do something you've not done before because it will open up the brain's different neural networks and you'll get this sense of wonder and awe. For me and my body, when I really need a side quest, it feels like tension, tightness, stiffness, that kind of feeling like when I know that I've been sitting down for too long and I just need to get up, my legs feel restless. That's when I need the excursion. I'm curious about what gets in our way. You know, like when we have something that comes to mind and keeps coming up, I want to do this. For me, it's been trying to learn how to swim better. But pools, me out and I get water up my nose. And it's just I don't I don't like being around other people's naked feet. Like just there there are things that I can't get on board with. But I do like being in the ocean in Puerto Rico and I'm trying not to get wiped out by a wave. But every summer it comes and goes. And I'm like this year I'm going to do this. I have an offer to consider that you say that you say this year. That's too big. I think you should turn your smart. goal into a micro goal. This week, I'm going to go to the pool. I'm not going to go in. I'm just going to go to the pool. I'm going to go see other people learning how to swim. I'm going to go to the YWCA and see what's going on or wherever there's a pool. And so sometimes a side quest is about like, you don't begin because you'll know what you'll find. You begin because you're willing to find out. Like you don't have to build Rome this year. Yeah, exactly. It can happen over time. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder how do side quests change other parts of our lives? Like obviously, I think for most people, a side quest is something that usually concerns like one or two maybe areas of their life. It's like a specific thing you're working on or trying out. But I imagine that the changes that we see the way or the way that these side quests change us seep out into other areas of our life. For me, it's always like doing the hard thing and elevating or recalibrating what the hard thing is as I get older. I have so many friends that run. I have so many friends that go to run clubs. And so went to a run club one time, did two miles, haven't done that since high school. And now I at least do or know that I can do one mile. And so I've started to do more of that. And how that shows up for me in different areas of my life is that like just the confidence and pride when I hit that one mile mark by myself. Like nobody else is around me, but it's something that brings me so much joy. And it reminds me that, again, I can do the hard thing. Whatever hard thing I choose that day, like I can do that. And I at least put one deposit into the like Sahara self-care box for the week. And I'm really proud of that. Coming up after the break, people say to me, why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane? And I'm like, a lot of people are living in perfectly bad planes and won't jump out. Stick around. I'd love to talk about the relationship between our jobs and our side quests. I feel like I can speak for myself here that work used to occupy a different space in my life before the pandemic. My identity was more of a, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, more tied to my job and my career, so was my ambition and so was my social life. And then in the pandemic, there's no workplace anymore for like two years. And all the people I would see every day, well, that's no longer really happening. It's only happening over Zoom. And work had less of a hold on me suddenly. I was no longer like my entire identity is baked up in this. And I feel like that opened me to more side quests. I think I'm not the only one who's experienced that shift, who's like, I don't want to give it all to my company anymore. Yeah. My pathway, interestingly enough, was more from the rigidity of like my routine and just the pressure that I feel normally. I want to create space in my life for something different that feels honestly lighter than what I'm doing day to day. And so I think the path to side questing definitely was a source of me like rediscovering my relationship with my body and like my relationship with movement and then figuring out that there were so many ways to play in that space too. Yeah. I mean, when do you sit and tell a joke at work? I'm in academia. We only take our head to different meetings. There's no play involved generally. And there's a list of things and it's all about serious and earnestness and you go home and then you vent about it and you're like, and then you get up and do it again. So side quests are really important given that we're living in a time where a lot of stress comes from social media. People aren't trained to have good social skills, social hygiene at work. Um, I feel like that's why I listen to NPR because, it makes me laugh. But at work, it's not like my experience of listening to my favorite shows on the radio. It's a burden. What I'm hearing is that side quests are a way to remind yourself you're not a machine. You know? Absolutely. Yes to that. We host walks on a monthly basis through the summer. And so the last one we had, we asked that question of like, what do you miss from your childhood? And so some of the answers are so fun of like, like playing all day and having to like change your clothes midday because you just had like sweat through your clothes or skipping, right? Like skipping was one that is free and it came up. And then I had noted like when it gets really hot, the fire hoses are open. And when's the last time you ran through one of those? Like realistically. And so it was just funny because after we reflected on like what people's like answers were, we were walking back to our home base and our coffee shop that we end up at. And there was a fire hose open and a rainbow and we, a few of us skipped through it. And it was just like, we had manifested it, but it was just so fun. It couldn't have been more perfect. That whimsy of it all, like it's good. Well, I mean, you're talking kind of like about rediscovery, right? And I think that feels very much like part of a side quest. Actually, my career in podcasting started as a side quest. I just started, a podcast outside of work with a friend. Wow, congrats. And thank you. But then once that became like more than a hobby, I had to pick a new side quest, which it took some years of trying some things. But for me now that's learning a second language, it's learning Spanish. I want to be able to communicate more with some of my family. And also too, I mean like, oh my gosh, like a lot of my personality naturally is like, I know the answer. And so like when I'm learning, a new language, I don't, as you said, I can't be a know-it-all. I don't know what I'm saying. You know, I was not really a great student from like basically sixth grade through college. I got terrible grades for a lot of my education, but now I'm like a pretty great student with my tutor that I have been with for a few years now. And I am finally enjoying having class. And that reframe, there's a lot from childhood, from school, from those formative years, that maybe doesn't feel so good to continue to hold onto. And a side quest for me has been a way to like kind of get out of that and be like, oh, actually no. There is this side of me that like is a great student and like loves learning and is like asking for more homework. That's not something that I knew about myself. It's like literally a new self that I have discovered. You mentioned something though about like, I guess almost like reclaiming it for yourself. That's something that I've learned too around like maybe the side quests you invite a friend to join you on or the ones you have to reclaim and like do by yourself. So I liked what you shared there. I think that's a good reminder that you don't need someone to do it with you. And also you, there are spaces where other people are interested in that thing. So it's not always about getting your current friends to do the thing with you. We're talking about all of these wonderful, beautiful things that exist on the other side of taking that leap. Or even just dipping that first toe into beginning a side quest. But also I imagine that there are probably a lot of people listening who are like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired or I'm so busy or I have so many people I'm taking care of or so many things that people need from me. Do you have any advice for those who might not know where to start or who might feel too tired to try to take a side quest? I mean, the side quest in general, it sounds daunting. It does. Like a quest of sorts feels like a commitment. It's like a commitment to something. So I think we've been kind of talking about keeping it simple, like looking around your environment, looking around your commute and taking moments to pause. And I think to Kira's point to notice is the best way to start. But I think listening to what those urges have been, like what those nudges have been is a really good place to start. Yeah. It's listening inside, inward. There's this thing called interoceptive awareness. It's the thing that you sense when you feel like you're about to get angry or to take whatever thing is going on in your day and see if you can notice your body slowing down. It doesn't have to be an activity or an event. A side quest can be a mindfulness practice of, I had a student once I taught a political sociology class and I said, you have to change one habit. One habit. And she had a four-year-old daughter and she worked overnight. And I consider this a side quest. Other people might not, but I think it has the same impact that a side quest is. She said, I just want to be present in the morning when my daughter wakes me up at 8 a.m. And she said it changed her life that semester. That's it. I think whether you start small or you do something really grand, like jumping out of a plane or something, it's like, what's the best that can happen? That's a bad example because I also do not recommend the jumping out of a plane. of a plane piece. But yeah, what's the best? I did it. I think we should not underestimate the story that comes from whatever happened. People say to me, why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane? It's doing things you're not familiar with that gives you a bigger brain. It gives you more empathy for who you are. You're not an object. You are a changing being from the cradle to the grave. So it's really important to do things you're not familiar with about yourself. And I think side quests give people that permission. Oh my gosh. Marielle, how's all this hitting you? Oh my gosh. Well, it's reminding me about the definition of a side quest and where that came from. It came from the video game world, like you mentioned earlier, Brittany. And it's like part of the. The reason to go on a side quest in the video game world is just to build the lore. And it's like, so it's this idea of building your own lore. Your lore. You know? Which like, why wouldn't anyone want to do more lore? Enrich your story. I love that. I love that. I love that. Kira, Sahara, Marielle, everybody. Thank you all so much. This was a restorative conversation. Yeah, this was really fun. Thank you. Yes, thank you. That was Let's Play NYC owner Sahara Monet and Dr. Kira Gaunt, Associate Professor of Ethnomusicology at the University at Albany and author of the game's Black Girls Play. This episode of It's Been a Minute was produced by. Corey Antonio Rose. This episode was edited by. Nina Potok. Our super. Our supervising producer is. Cher Vincent. Our executive producer is. Barton Girdwood. Our VP of programming is. Yolanda Sanguini. All right. That's all for this episode of It's Been a Minute from NPR. I'm Brittany Luce. Talk soon.