Fascinating World Of Art Collecting Ft Fabien Fryns

[Music] Luxury and Editing! We're back! We are back! I am Misha. I'm fed up of introducing her. I am Ness. Ness. And I'm happy to introduce myself. Yes, and we are just getting wilder. And today's event! Fabian! We are here, your company. Nice to have you here! Yes, we are honored. I have to say, today's topic is your favourite world of art and also a little introduction into collecting. But what I really wanted to say was, so my hair looks better than you was today. I'm just obsessed with this hair. Yeah, call a handkerchief. I can't walk away with it. Back to our guest. Yes, sorry. What I really wanted to say was, Fabian has good hair as well. Yes, you have a nice hair. You're handsome, Debal. I've been told I have a billionaire's hair by one art dealer, but it's just a hair. It's just a hair. Do you have the bank account or that? Okay, that was a word. We met perhaps a year ago through a good friend Soraya Shaheed and it's funny, like, I have a more exciting story about it. Everyone, when they were like, Fabian's coming. Fabian's coming. Fabian's coming. Fabian's doing a pop-up. Fabian, Fabian, Fabian. And it was like, I was like, who is this? I'm blushing. It's a smile. So, we would love to know a little bit more about you, your career and art. And you have an amazing, not only in terms of. I'd like to sort of all blur my own trumpet. Do you remember on the first episode we talked about, Chew's Vags, really expensive stuff experience? And Nez said, well, if I had extra money, I'd buy art. Today we are doing art. This for you, Nez. This is for you, Nez. It's always about me, but we should understand. I'm not sure. So, thanks to you, sorry Fabian. I just wanted to get that in. Because, I mean, you've got quite a history in the sort of art world. You're really up there in terms of the who's. You're very kind. I started young, maybe just gave me a bit of an edge early on. And why did you start? How did you even think I wanted to go into art? Oh, because my family was collecting on a model scale. Yeah. I was always very open and interested in art. And. Where did you grow up? In Belgium. Belgium. Close to Mastery. I'm chocolate. I put on the map for the famous stiff-have art there. Yes, yes. So, very close to Mastery, but just across the border in Belgium. So tell us. So, then what did you do? Because I read some of you with the youngest-ever brain box in art. Oh. And again, because of an early start. I. You mean that Christie's perhaps, right? Did the education course? Yes. This was mainly to say out of the army, which at the time in Belgium was still. That's pretty much it. Yeah, compulsory. And so, I enrolled after high school studies in Switzerland, where I actually started my career a little bit in the boarding school. Ah. Yeah, because I was quite interested in art and buying some works by young artists for myself. So, when was your first. How old were you? Your first art. Fifteen, I think. Wow. I think I bought it at like 15. Yeah. When you could still buy interesting works for a handful of dollars. Wow. Not such the case. There were no yours. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not such the case at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, so, as you started off, how did you really, like, do a deep dive into that art world? Well, hold on, I won't ask one thing. When you bought it at 15, did you buy it at a cell immediately? No. To who? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I would do is I would identify artists. I would do my own research, my own education through mainly Flash Art magazine and Art Forum and things like that. So, it would be obsessed with this. And there was a little shop, a little bookshop down by the lake, not far from the school, a ten minute walk. Sounds pretty idyllic. Pretty nice. Yeah, it was quite nice. And they used to have all the great publications of the time, like Flash Art, Parkette magazine, Art Forum and so on. I would always rush on the day that the new publication would come out to collect the latest issue. That's like us with Vogue. Yeah, that's like us with Vogue. And my friends were like, what's he on about? He was mad. Yeah. And you're still mad, so. Yeah, exactly. That's a good thing. Yeah. Are you also an artist? Or not. I was just going to say, I must be one of the only pupils in school who didn't attend Art class because I have zero creativity, sadly. Well, you have creativity, I, obviously. I think, yeah, that's one thing. Sometimes, sometimes it works. So, please don't tell me that first piece of art you bought was a Picasso. Not quite. Not quite. But it was there. Now, would it be boring, don't you think? Yeah, I think so. That's just a matter of money. That would have been nice. That's a matter of money. That's true. Yeah. So, what did you buy? I bought some, yeah, some anteligroney drawings, I just bought works on paper. Oh, it wasn't money, I bought it. You really have a lot of work on paper. I was also well guided. I had a family member who I would bounce ideas off on and he would give, put me also in the right direction. So, I think that's very important. Do you still have any of those? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you kind of. I bet you there worth a lot more than a few dollars now. Some of them. But then again, it's part of the trajectory. And then, yeah, this led to the visiting art puzzle, one of us still in school, which was maybe two hour drive away. And so, again, I was exposed at a quite young age to like what was at the time, of course, also already a leading art fair. Not as big as today, but still very interesting source of information and all that. And then, it just kind of took its all life from there. And then, how did you get into it professionally? I mean, did you. Was it like a freelance? I thought you went into a. You created a fund or you partner in a company? No, never, never. That's mad off. Yes. No, no. So, I'm gonna say. Yeah, just because when I was buying works for myself, my friends would want to buy as well. Not interested. Oh, like, can you buy us? So, I thought, okay, so if I sell art, I can actually buy more. So, is that simplistic as that? And it's kind of state simplistic in the way, you know, I've never really considered this as a business. Although, it's, of course, it's rather a passion that I like to share with people. Yes, then actually. I don't like to be on the transactional side of things in a way. I definitely. I definitely can vouch for that. Because I have to sell the story of how I first met Fabian. I'd gone to see Asma for a piece of art and it was during. It was July or September. No, it was September. It was September. It was a gallery in Dubai. September. You were away. You were in. Oh, you were in my way. Yes, we were in my way. But then we didn't meet. We didn't meet. That's what I mean. So, I came to the gallery. That's right. So, what happened was. There was in the summer. There was no work. There was like three pieces of. I finished from one gallery and I just walked down. I was going to get into the car. Yes. And something drew me to this gallery. There was nothing in there except to my Kalangelo statue, right? I think there was a. You know, who's that by? That's what it was. By Adam Parkesmith. By Adam Parkesmith. The marble sculpture. Yes. And then there were two works of art on the walls. Everything else was gone. So, I went in and I said, "Do you have anything else?" She said, "If you just go around, there's a couple of pieces." And I walked around and there was the Zhangji. Yes. And it was in this turquoise green. Beautiful. And I remember calling my husband and saying, "I'm going to buy this." And he was like, "Oh, God, a good summer picture." And. Here we go again. And yes, you said he's actually bit scared of myself. And I absolutely. I don't know what it was. It's the only way I ever buy art. I'm completely drawn to it. There's no rhyme or reason. I'm just completely drawn to it. So, I asked the girl, she said, "I don't know. She gave me a price." She said, "But you have to. I'll get someone to get in touch with you." And the next thing I know is, "Hi, this is Fabian. I'm in Marbella." And I said, "Oh, very nice. And we started this conversation, right?" Absolutely, yeah. And then I agreed to buy it and then it was boxed up and that. And then when he came back, I met him and. Subsequently, I'm not sure I have to see again. I see again. Yeah. So, you started working with them with friends and I guess then you. People started hearing about you and wanting to. Yeah, not so much. I kept it very small in a way. Very small. Yeah, in a way. And then I was actually quite knowledgeable, quite informed, let's say, about contemporary art, but not so much about the history of art. So, I decided to do this Christie's course, which was a two-year course at the end. At the time, back in South Can, opposite Trans-Sus-Bake in St. Louis. Oh, yes. Yes. I saw Monts-At-Bates-Rie Valérie. Yes, I saw. Oh, yes. As many prices. How much is that? Yeah, about 85. And this one, Montpain 20, I'll take that one. I'll take that one. Yes, because this is the five-penzo piece. Yeah, there's hair up like this. Well, that was the place to be. Yes. It was fun. Yeah. It was fun. And so, then the two years of that, and then I did some business studies in. Brussels, Paris and London. But all this time were you still like buying and collecting? Or were you just dying? My business studies, I don't recall having been to class ever. I think I was all the time in Yorkshire houses and the games. Sounds a bit like me. Don't, and every single assignment was related to art or the art world. But what made you do that then? Love of it, I think. And the army again, there was always this thing of the art. I'm sure the army's a great thing. I hope they're not going to cool down exactly by then. Nobody's listening to me. I'm from Belgium. It's not a particularly big country. And also, if you know what you want to do in life, I'm sorry. But to spend two years in the army at the time. Oh, no. It's two years. It's not one years. Yeah, it's two years. And I thought, no, no, no, no, I'm in a hurry. I need to do this. And so I didn't want to get distracted. But it's interesting that it was business, not something more creative. Like history about what? Well, my parents wanted me to go into the family business. Right. So I told you-- Do they have a gallery? No, they were in Oriental campus. Oh, actually. Second generation. So that's what took you to China. No. Oriental doesn't necessarily really-- Oh, no. Careful with the library. But yes, but-- Yeah, true. No, but no. But my father used to go to China three times a year to Iran, Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Nepal, all these places-- Wow. --to source since the mid '70s. To source carpets directly. And this was a fantastic business. But then I thought, you know, for one floor, you have four walls. Yeah. So let's focus on the walls. Sure. So no, it's because it's art is a different thing, right? Yeah. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love carpets and Persian carpets, particularly. Yeah, they're beautiful. It's for sure an art form. Yeah, and we tell a story about storytelling as well. And actually we had a show in Dubai. Are you dead? Well, my father had a show in Dubai. It must have been in the mid '90s. Wow. I think everyone came. It was like 20 people turned up. I was a small place in it at the time. Yeah, yeah. It was a huge exhibition. I'm not sure how to end. But anyway, that was my first time in Dubai. It must have been mid '90s. So then after you did the course, what took you-- because I know you specialized in-- 15 years in China. Yes. Well, first I opened a gallery in the Marbeque Club in Marbeque and started Spain. I mean, this is a theme here, the party boy. This was not party-related. This was-- Yes, whatever you say. This was my party. Lando was out of my league at the time. I thought if I opened a gallery in London with my own very limited means at the time, at the age of 23 or something. And then you-- at the time, you had to calculate that you need to survive for three years with a gallery before you can turn a pro. Ah, interesting. Why three years? That was because there was a much smaller market at the time. The second year you break even. The third year you-- Yeah, if you're lucky. If you're lucky, you're lucky. You need to set up and everything get the name. And so you'll take a certain class-- Take it to the trust. It's trust, exactly. It's all based on trust. I'm not even sure if they have that longevity now or that ability to take their time. Everything's quite quick today, it's real. But then-- so I told the wait with my budget, I can definitely last much longer in Marbella where I kind of grew up and make some mistakes that no one's going to notice. Now, incidentally, during COVID, these kind of holiday places have become quite popular for us, like Bomb Beach. Because you are able to live a relatively long life. The hamptons, et cetera, exactly. But there was a good exercise. I had a gallery for 10 years. And what did you learn in those 10 years? What was this of key learning? Stick to your guns. Go with your program and don't try to adapt to the market. Because in that case, there was no market. There was a lot of money around. For most people, these were holiday homes. They might have super duper, very important blu-chip works at home in their main residencies, but in their holiday house. Even though this might be multi-billion dollar houses, they would have pulses on the wall. And so I really tried to stick to show artists that I personally also collect or would like to collect, given the means. And again, to share that passion with people instead of just being transactional and saying, OK, I'm going against a trend. I need to better go with the trend. So I try to always avoid that. And what was the geography of these artists? Very wide. A lot of female artists, I'm talking back in the '90s, worked a lot with Shrinishat, with Collective Men Golden. I can't mention all the names now. But I did actually a lot of photography back then in those days, which I do much less now, sadly, just a reason. That's true, actually. I was thinking about that. We've just had to art week. And behind the lens, I consider a lot of photography. Like, it's art, right? But yes, there's no doubt about it. But from my very limited knowledge here, it seems that photography is still kind of thriving in the region. In China, it was a very important medium when I arrived in Tsunsau. Do you not think that photography thrives because a lot of people understand it a lot more and can relate to it a lot more? And also, it's at a lesser value. So it gets them into-- I know there's a lot-- the one thread that I had when I put out the topic on my Instagram page was that everyone wants to start-- Collective. --they want to start collecting. They're very apprehensive. They don't-- they don't-- it's like-- it's navigation. They don't know how to get into it. They don't know, you know, should they be-- they don't know where they're at. There's a lot out there. And they're scared of making the wrong decision. Whereas really, it should be like when you buy a watch. Yeah, buy what you love, not to resale. Yeah, definitely. So what did take you to China? I mean, that's quite a big leap-- leap of faith. Yes. Well, it wasn't a leap. It was just a friend of mine, Chris Mal from Chamus Fine Art, where they got in New York. We were doing a lot of it together in-- I think I was Palm Beach or Miami. He said, hey, there's an art fair in Beijing. Well, you missed Palm Beach and Miami. We have an air. Art fairs, art fairs. I was doing lots of art fairs. Party. Art fairs, party. And then-- [LAUGHTER] And-- Good for you, Fabian. Yeah, Chris, there's an art fair in my-- An art fair in Beijing. The first contemporary art fair in China. Do you want to go? What year was this? Absolutely not. 2004. Oh, OK. Oh, not that early. And I'm like, absolutely not. And he's like, no, but let's go. And the booth was ridiculously cheap. I thought, OK, why not? My father's been going to China for so long. I'm going to have to look myself. And so we-- One for two weeks instead of 15 years. Exactly. Yeah, in a nutshell. And the timing could not have been better, accidentally. But it was just you felt the energy when you arrived there in Beijing in 2004, not knowing anyone, by the way, except for Chris who lived actually in the US. I mean, nobody speaks English. Yeah. At least in those days in Beijing, the taxis. I don't know how we got around. Yeah. But we managed to do a lot of work at China. Yeah. It was different in the world. Well, even the phones, you couldn't use your phone. You had to have a different type of burn, different pain. Yeah, the whole thing. You were completely cut out. But the energy. Yeah, the energy. Yeah, the most important thing, basically, the artist. I mean, in my profession. The artist were so exciting and fresh and relevant to the times to this immensely changing society. And-- So it was Chinese artists you worked with, or you still can't-- No, but when I arrived, no, I was showing David Lashapel at the time, with who I worked a lot, because I had no idea what people might get excited about in China. And so I thought maybe David Beckham and led the leopard on the way. Well, that's who I used to do. That's why I was here. It used to go to China with you. Yeah, as you see. Small world. We probably met each other in China. Could it be? Yeah, yeah. They had these crazy, like, kiddie bars, like the 130th floor of the-- Yeah, such fun. It was crazy. It was a very fun-- But you felt an energy. And I thought, oh, I've got the same displays. And of course, everyone thought I was mad. Yeah. So how did you transcend that energy into then work, and then representing these artists, and then bringing them to the world? Yes, I opened a space. I went to all these studios, and they kept on saying, oh, here comes another foreigner with lots of promises. And then he'll walk away with some art and consignment on his armor. He will never hear from him again. This is before WhatsApp and things like that. So-- Why don't you have WhatsApp, can you? China, it has to be. Yes, you can. You know you can. Yeah. But so, anyway, so communication was not as easy and open as now. And so I thought, no, I'll be different. I'll have a space here with my name on the door. And so, you know, I'm serious about this. And so you ended up having a gallery in Beijing. And was there a particular, like, in terms of the artists, like, trend, were they painters, were they sculptors, was there a particular, very traditional, were they able? I always find it super interesting, because it's something that people talk about all the time in their regions like Heritage, like Hold on to Heritage. I'm interested to know how they managed to use their heritage or not in their art. - It's a fast, fast scene over there. I mean, don't forget Beijing, when I arrived in 2004 was a city of 15 million people. It's about 25, 28 million people. It at least used to be the art capital of China. So I visited thousands of artists studios, which I love. You're just rows and rows and rows. A bit like Asak Dal, but full of artists. - Which is a little bit of a challenge to have that sound. - Yeah, a lot of them. But mainly, one of the artists I met took me about a year to actually finally come across eight months, to finally come across him. Everything was new, you know? There was also, you weren't much guided as to who would be more interesting or more established or better than another artist, etc. So you had to kind of. - Be on your way. - On the ground, find your own way. - It is not the best way. So you again, want with your guts and your passion. - Oh yeah, totally, yeah. And then eight months in, I finally met many, many interesting artists. And then finally, I came across to this studio, which was a bit more isolated, which is uncommon because most of them, they're like Asak Dal, have new lots of art studios who go for one to the next, even without the appointment, just not going to the door. That was in the day, not anymore. That's evolved now. Sadly, in a way, I come across the studio with this guy and, you know, fantastic, yes, absolutely. Love and first sight. - And his name? - And this was, I still don't pronounce it correctly in Chinese, but Zeng Fanzi, who was then an established artist, but not the kind of not amongst the leading artists in China. - Yeah. - And then we had a fantastic long-term friendship and behind the scenes, a bit working relationship together. Also, I collected this work and there's some museum projects with him, some publication and things like that. So, that's quite interesting. That relationship between the galorist and the artist. What do you feel is important as a galorist in terms of supporting? - Well, actually, to be honest with you, this is why I'm actually not so keen to have a galore because I was never a galorist of Zeng Fanzi. - Right. - But we were very close. We would hang out three times a week, which more countless cigars together. - Okay, thank you. - That's a cigars. - Which is also nice to enjoy with friends. And actually, if you, you know, I had a very open relationship with him in the sense that I'm not his galoreist, so I can advise him without having myself my own interest at heart. - Yeah. - So much more freely. - Which I'm sure he valued. - Yeah. - Yeah. So that's why I don't feel so comfortable in the end to have a galore because I like the freedom. - Yeah, you seem to do a lot of takeovers, I've seen it. - Only once. - No, once. I thought there was a few. - It was a friendly takeover. - Yeah. - Not a hostile one. - I can't talk to them to it. - But there was a galore you wanted to talk about. You just mentioned earlier on. - Oh, the Donovan collection. - Donovan. - Yeah, this is called the Donovan collection. - Yeah, it's a fabulous collection. I don't know if it was a vineyard that incorporated an art collection and it might have become a public collection with the vineyard attached to it now. Because my friend was the owner, this couple. They put in so much effort and love into what's a passion for them. It's a passion project, it's not their main business. And so since they bought the vineyard, I think it was in 2011, I believe, they've really established a fantastic collection. That's open to the public. Most of the works are site-specific. There's some really, really challenging installations. Challenging from a perspective of a collector. - Right. - So, a huge commitment, not only to produce the works but to install the works for one work they had actually, almost a whole room built for the Rees Wars Wars spider. - How amazing is that? - To really be able to stretch your wings in a project. - And they support lots of artists and it's a fabulous initiative. And this actually grew out of my time in China as well because the owner and his wife of what's now the Donum estate and collection, they came to my gallery one day in a kind of beat up Cherokee and they wanted to get into buying some art. I think he might have bought one or two pieces before but nothing really of consequence. And so I started to advise him and got some fancy to do his portrait for instance at the time which was very, very special. And this eventually grew for someone who started buying art to fill or decorate his houses to this kind of - Huge project. - Extraordinary project. - An investment into the art world really. If you're commissioning artists and artists. - Oh yes. - Allowing them to have that kind of. - Oh yes, in disguise, in limit. And they're not afraid to, I mean, I also like to introduce in the collection some younger artists and sometimes the installation costs are more expensive than the actual artwork. So I mean that's the real commitment. - That's a dedicated. - It's not a long term commitment and view. - Which actually leads me to a question if you could have anyone's art collection, who's would it be? Oh, I don't know, I'm happy with my own to be honest with you. But I don't want to sound pretentious. - No, no, no, no. - It's a very small collection but the thing is, I think this is very difficult. I've experienced this several times and now you're also with the Paul Allen collection. It's very difficult for one collection to stay together. I think we like to have our top picks and choose this from certain collections but I don't think there's a particular collection that I would say. - So in terms of, I'm intrigued by the you being in China. (laughs) Was it a global clientele? I mean, how did you still, how did you maintain that visibility? - In the beginning there was mainly Chinese buyers, an older generation of Chinese buyers. And then gradually after, I think it was Sotheby's at the first Chinese contemporary auction in New York in 2006, I believe, five or six, this suddenly put China on the map to contemporary artsy. Maybe too much in a commercial way. But suddenly we got bus loads of people, of collectors, of creators, of museum directors and what have you coming through the region. Not as similar to what's going on in this region today. Actually in a way, that's why I see-- - Where do you see Arab art today? Or Middle Eastern art, shall we say? - Oh, I'm really not very knowledgeable about Middle Eastern and Arab art, but I went to South in 2014 where I met a few of the artists. - Because there's a lot of relationships between the Middle East and parallels and China. - Yeah, in China there's, I don't think that much exposed to Middle Eastern art. I have the impression. - Are they interested in buying contemporary art from the rest of the world? Or is it purely from-- - No, actually it's changed. It's interesting you asked that. The younger generation out in millennials in China they're buying almost anything but Chinese art. - Wow. - So yeah, it's a complex situation in China right now because also creativity-- - I also want that's probably a little bit of a pushback, you know, they want to rebel a little bit. - Yes, yes. - That's their way of revenge. - I would have thought it would be the opposite way around. So you know how, like there was a time where it was the rest of the world and China wanted to learn about the rest of the world. That's when I thought that they would be buying non-Chinese artists, but I feel a trend in the other creative industries. Now it's the younger generations that want to buy into something more local. So you know, the younger generations want to buy a bit least in artists, they're not so keen on-- They want to see the expansion in the series. - Maybe he says-- - I think because of what's happening in China and in the region. I think they are the younger trying to rebel. And that's why-- That's my viewpoint. It's probably very wrong as well. - But it doesn't matter. - It's a very serious discussion. - There's not a lot of fun in this one. - I'm sorry, but-- - I'm sorry, but-- - You're not the first person to know this. - She's fascinated. I've never seen Nezzo quiet. (laughing) It's not a good thing. But there's been a common thread in everything that you've been saying, and that's passion. - Yes, indeed. - And I think people forget that because, you know, in my modest little way, I do collect art. - But you do actually-- - I've asked you as well. I've asked you what do you think and she's exceptional, actually. - And it's all passion driven. It's all a very, very emotional decision. - I think that's the best way. And uh. But you have to live with it on your wall. Like I was discussing something with someone recently because there are some really exceptional Syrian artists, right? Yeah. And I had a Syrian friend over to my house. And I said to her, you know, what's the art like at the moment? Because I've got a Madara as upright. So he's pretty decent. And I wanted to see what else. And she said, well, because of what's been happening, she showed me something. It was all very painful. You know what? Obviously, because in the last five years, 10 years, whatever, the horrendous situation that Syria is under, the artwork is-- I find it painful. It's not just dark. So it's something that I couldn't have on my wall because I need to feel boyed by it. I need to feel happy by it. I mean, I have some mixed media that people think I'm crazy. I have Egyptian artists. I have Lebanese artists. I have, you know, a Syrian artist. I have a lot of stuff that I have now a Marathi. Yeah. I do have a Marathi. Congratulations. Great. A brilliant artist. Yes. She's a shakha and Maros. Yes. A Israeli. A Israeli. Who really is sculpture. Yes, she is a sculptor. That's the other thing also, right? We want people to kind of have a reaction when they come to your home about the work of art, right? And it's funny, because-- Surprising sometimes. Yeah. Someone-- I don't know. Someone came around. They were like, oh, I didn't expect you to have art like this. I think, obviously, I'm always wearing black. I don't know. But a lot of the art I have-- I have hang-- yeah, it's very happy. Art is full of color. A color. Even if it's quite a dark subject matter, it's mostly full of color. It's up to-- So yeah, so there's obviously something that I like it to take me away from where I am. Yeah. And take my imagination. So if money was no object, what would you buy right now? I'd probably buy one of Sheikhut's pieces, actually. Really? Yeah, I love them. I love them. Yeah. Are you friends? I'm yet to discover Sheikhut's work. And now you're really-- Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah, she's amazing. Yeah, she's amazing. She's with the Laura Shibibi gallery. Oh, yes. Yeah. I know to find them. Yeah. Exactly. So cut to this conversation I was having. I think we met very briefly. You probably won't remember. Last year's art to buy. You mean not in China when you were together with David Beckham farting on 130th floor, right? What are you saying? What are you saying? But before you walked up, everyone was like, oh, fabulous. Have you heard? Have you heard? Have you heard? Fabian's having a take on it. I was like, really? No. That this reputation-- Yeah, I was like, who is this man? I was so intrigued. And you are very well loved anyway. Oh, that's very kind. Yeah, very well loved. I do my best, but what do you do? And I think that's important, because sometimes this industry can be a bit daunting. I think less so, I find less so in the Middle East than it is say in London or New York or wherever. And which is a shame. That's it. People have a fear of who to trust work. Because if normally they associate buying a piece of art with letting go with a lot of money, right? So it's getting that trust, isn't it, of being guided. I had a bad experience. You remember that, Nets? Remember? That's what it was. We're not going to mention any names. We won't mention any names. But he took it very personally. He wanted me to buy a piece. I thought I wanted the piece. But then when I came with my husband to see it, it didn't-- it was flat. Didn't talk to me. Didn't talk to him. I didn't want it in my house. But instead of taking the opportunity to show me other things, he completely shut me out. But it's going to be an open conversation. I mean, also you might buy a piece from a gallery. And a few years later you get tired of it or for whatever reason. That door should always be open. It's a long-term relationship. Yeah. That's how I see it. Yeah, absolutely. They said, don't do business with your friends. But to be honest with you, I'd much rather do business with my friends because I'm going to be giving them the best advice that I can. Yeah. And giving them the best yield that I can. So I'd rather deal with my friends and with people I don't-- And what is your best advice, like in terms of buying? Oh, I would say take your time. Yeah. Oh my god, that was the first thing I was going to say. But you take your time. But then again-- But then sometimes you do-- Today taking your time is not a luxury anymore because the market is so hot that there's waiting this for some in the mountains, et cetera. But then again, also go against the trend. I was actually-- I was actually-- Oh, is that the second thing you were going to say? Well, no, I was actually saying that. No, no. The first one was definitely take your time. But I was scared that the first thing would happen to me that someone else would take it on the second piece of art that I bought from you, remember. Yes. I was like, oh no, I wanted. I had to flip a coin. Did you? Yeah. No. Yes? I was buying this piece from Gallery Run, Run, Run, Run. Because there was two pieces, actually. I thought initially I wanted the-- they were part of the series. They were together. He wanted the top one, so did I. And he very graciously, the guy that was buying it, he'd already bought two other pieces from the same artist within that gallery. And he was like, you know what? We're going to flip it. But then he started telling me a story of how he was connected to it. So I kind of felt-- actually, he really should have it. He actually played you, and as-- No, but he flipped the coin. He flipped the coin. And he got it. And he got it. He got it. It was meant to be. He got it. And then he stood up. He took the coin. Then he stood up, and he was like, eight foot tall. And I said, if you don't, he just stood up. I wouldn't have given you that. I didn't think that. The coin, actually. I then understood that the other one was more for me. So everything worked out. Everything worked out. Now, we have every week, we have these top five questions that we ask. Can we not talk about this? Oh, yeah, let's talk about this. My friend's book. Oh, it's your friend's book. Yes, my friend Christoph. I love the colors. It's lovely. It says, how not to-- BBB BBB BBB BBB. Up your art world happiness. What does that mean? How not to fork up your art world happiness? I think because of having been like-- 60 tips and tricks. How to stay relaxed and mentally. Yes, it comes highly recommended. Have a look. Yes, highly recommended from-- You see? Fabian. Fabian. We did it. We're having it. Christoph is a dear friend, and he is the creator with his wife of Larry's List, which you might know. Yes, I'm the largest, yeah. And the art gorgeous, which both of you should be on, actually. Cordelia, I'll make a note. She's got a teah-ha. Cordelia is in charge. She's in charge, yeah. She's in charge. I want one of these. Where do we buy it? Well, Sally just saw it out. And I got a bunch. I got a bunch as a gift. As a gift. But I've already-- You've dedicated. So when the second print run comes out, I'm getting you copies. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. OK, so we're going to do top five. - VVVVVVVV! - Okay darling. - Okay first question. - Pavia, this is the Hots teacher. Can I start collecting emerging artists? Is that a good strategy for a new collector without big budgets? - The best? - Of course. - On the ground with the people of your own age generation, support them, get involved with them, ask every single question that you feel like to learn. - So is it good to go to art colleges and look at the fun shows? - Yeah, also absolutely. Two great-ration shows, art fans. - And also if you see an impoverished artist, invite him to your restaurant. If you have any, he might draw something. You keep that as we all know. - Yes, you know the Picasso story, right? - Of course. - And then he said, and then the restaurant always said, would you mind to sign it? And because he said, excuse me, I'm buying dinner. I'm not buying the restaurant. (laughing) - Right. - Second question, I want to start collecting digital art. Is this why? Didn't it just do it? - Yeah. - And it's dove. - What do you thought of your art? - Why not? It's like saying I'm gonna collect art, but only painting. - Yeah. - Why not? - Because somebody just wrote to me and said she bought an NFT last year and lost her entire shirt. - But that's why you should buy it from passion, right? It should be irrelevant, actually. - But I'm being able to buy what you like. It's certainly an interesting medium, I think. - Yeah. - I think it has a little bit. I'm sure it has. - And I'm sure technology as far as it's going, like what we see now, I mean, even the difference between last year and art to buy the digital section to this year, there's a big change. It's like, feels, refined is the wrong word, but feels very different. - Yeah. - Technology. - It's evolved already. - Technology, I mean, it would be like how we're using, or we used to use cassettes and, and it'll be like something else. - I'm sure at the invention of photography, there was a lot of people thinking. - Right, now this is never going to, yeah. - No, they will think, they'll probably think, well, this is it now, this will take over from painting or something like that. And it's just become another, another medium. - I think it's really good. - And I think the same for NFTs. I think it was hugely over speculated, especially because of very poor content, those being uploaded or dropped, sorry, the right terminology. but I think it's definitely very. allywch yr a'r thrwμconiad yn wneud ffais iawn anظegraeg i'r rhywch new�is enterysw™ra які a'r rhyw每ulyr swine Actio neu fod yna yn sefyd frickach gyda y lineup yn ot mewn oku, yn i tro'wch? Feso by there wasn't a TW a'r rhywbyn ar unig, awyma'r wedig 92 誌wpill a'r香 physically d Treasure Simon ki entr yw rydych ac itb sy'n asحد a'r teopid o anyos ayan ac hynast涬 efallai tak emaili горli got a'r gwaithio Ym yma gyddiad, â'r cyflwydd i'n arall, ac yma'r ysgloedd. Gdyfnig, ac yma'r cyflwydd i'n arall oeddda, o'r cyflwydd i'n arall oeddda. A'r cyflwydd i'n arall oeddda'r cyflwydd i'n arall, oedda'r cyflwydd. A anol, mae'r cyflwydd i'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd i'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd. Ie, mae'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd i'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd i'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd i'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd i'n arall oedda'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd. A'r cyflwydd. Correct. It wasn't just a people forgot there were I mean incredible artists, right? And then it was a so I feel that Middle Eastern art or in the regional art is where sort of Maybe your Persian art was maybe 15 years ago. Well, here the big boom here, no and 2006, 2008 I believe in the market. Yeah, I can't 2008 that's one thing And any read I mean a part from the financial crisis was there any reason for That that happened or What interest just dwindled or maybe my credit card got lost Me sure had moved back to London so all of a sudden all the luxury brands retail went down the whole world collapsed Well, it's good. She's back. Yes. Good. She's coming back to my level. Yeah. Okay, let's move on because we'll ignore the second pop Ignore the second one. Thank you very much. Yes Question number four for back to digital art digital art I'm told you're not being very fun just because Fabian's here because you want to appear to be lady like Digital art is so confusing to buy can I buy without a wallet or a Bitcoin or whatever the correct phrases are help I am lost that was in capital letters SOS. I don't know actually. Yes. I think there's an NFT shops. I think oh But you still need a wallet I believe you need a wallet. I actually won an NFT wait. There's an artist here called Dia He's does the calligraphy Very good. I've got a piece is from him. I like him very much Well, you've got a couple of digital pieces. No just Which I commissioned My husband and I commissioned so we for some reason he did something on Instagram and I won an NFT and he said you have to get all it I said I have all it in my bag Yes, he said no you have to get a proper wallet. I said you know I'll give it to somebody else. I'm I'm what am I gonna do with it? Okay, I have an NFT portrait That was offered by an artist of myself. Okay, and some of my fellow friends and collectors and it's actually on a blue background And it's my How do you call my code my your credit card? No, no, not the credit card. What's it called? For your for your wallet for your wallet code. Oh, yeah, that's actually the portrait It's conceptual. Yeah, okay. It's like you're being personalized by That code. Do you like that? Doesn't look like me much Okay, question five last question. This is the last question question five Already already Are the key key artists? Are the key artists to keep an eye on? How do I find who these are? Is it best to follow a style or a region? It's best to follow your heart. Yes, exactly. I think the running theme has been passionate If you don't want to look at it on your walls, please don't buy it No, unless you're buying a Picasso or a Monet or you know or a Jade Then you just really I think you just have to buy for your love it I think so absolutely doesn't have to be an easy buy maybe what I would do also is again take your time and maybe Have a look at things that maybe you don't like in the first instance and explore Why do I not like this work? And then as you know? More about the artists and the work in particular Maybe you discover things that actually you do like because not everything that's visually Pleasant is necessarily Interesting to the mind and vice versa. Yeah So if I don't it's about to do your research if I I understand that you should do your research But I mean if it's like if it's up to $50,000. I mean, it's fine Right as long as you love it. It's not that you have to sit and think about it and do stuff but if For instance you walk into a place and you're drawn to something I Don't even think about it I just well you if you love it basically what you do. Yes. Yeah. Yeah So I that taking time so you're very impulsive Me too. I'm doing pulsing So we got three impulsives I'm not sure why we're doing We're doing whereas why is this any like hold on we're three It's like that was a two-bro girls remember that funny D.V. Well you two might be I'm not not exactly no, but it for me if I don't love it I don't care how much research I've done or or then But also for me it's the whole experience Also if I can meet the artist save there have been times where I popped in somewhere I met the artist gallery owner and That's dog gallery and run away Yeah, but also the guy the gallery Yeah, like if I you know with like Laura Shabibi for example or sunny and third line and also crush actually carbon 12 I bought a few people like oh an experimenter pextone Sathasian galleries. I love those guys. Then I'm always watching to see what they're doing who they've got There've been times where I've been lucky enough to meet the artist and I've gone Well, I didn't think about buying their work and then I was suddenly I think I want to also Conship like support Effig get we're doing a fantastic program with African artists. Yes, yeah Across the road yeah, I had a good time with them Yes, a wonderful beer. Yeah, when Mike used to be head of Christie's here Mike Jihad who's had a Christie's Middle East No, no, no, no, no, he have known him since I was 14 so he And he would send the cash all together Nice for a stop it so he he Used to send all the catalogs through and stuff and I remember there was one time he sent a catalog A woman on the front of this that was coming up for auction. I don't to this day I cannot remember the artist, but I saw this woman on this painting and I thought my god I didn't grow up with my mother. It was a long story But she reminded me of my mother. Oh wow That painting now hangs in my house Like is at the one of the end of the church Yeah, no honestly, but it's just because I Had this attachment to something on a page and I said to Mike. Should I buy it? He said if you love it buy it I'm not sure it's gone up any a great deal in value or whatever. I've never changed. I don't know it matters nothing to me And when it came up I said okay, my brother-in-law bid on it Here for me just kept me you know going and then it came and it's been in my house So something that just become part of your existence your life your It's doesn't matter the commercial value, right? Yeah at all. Yeah That's very important. I had a crazy connection to this It was a mixed-me-jee piece actually of a little boy don't laugh and a cat because I'm not actually that oh my she is cat But I was so drawn to this piece. I could not tell you it was like as if it was like a vortex Yeah, and it was actually a smear in Laura Shabibi and I just had to have it It was like I walked in so it got Complete turned out I was pregnant with my son and I I'm sure there was a connection like I just knew there was I think it's more than just It's more than that. It just talks to you but this body just tells you the task to come Is there a final final final world of wisdom? I'm sure you have more words of wisdom I have but But no, I think I think it's also important to Follow your heart and you and buy with your eyes and not to the ears because a lot of people are like asking Puy-le-faux investment you know if I buy this today what's gonna be worth in five years? Yeah, I hate that. Well if I knew that I mean you know So I think you have to you have to really buy what you like It's okay to ask other people's opinion, but don't let it guide you necessarily too much Because you know, it's always the best the best works I bought in a sense are that people when I bought them They told me I'm crazy. Yeah, yeah, and five years later. It told me how lucky it was yeah, I bought them at the time So you know go with your gut feeling is And love what you buy Indeed you see words of wisdom. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay guys