Fantasy Football - Unsolved Mysteries + Camp Injury Updates - Podcast for 7/30

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your hosts, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Wright. Welcome in. Thursday, July 30th. Mike Wright, Jason Moore, Andy Holloway. Welcome into the Fantasy Footballers Podcast at the FFBallers over on x, instagram.com slash fantasyfootballers. Jason's looking extra golfy today. That's a golfy shirt, is it? It is a golf shirt, indeed. I have golf shorts on. I have golf shorts on, and it is time to do the laundry. So wait, we golfed this morning, and you showered. I did. I changed out of that golf gear into this golf gear. That's what I was wondering. So you switched from the gear you played golf in to now gear you're not playing golf in. Correct. Because of the laundry. Because I've worn all my regular stuff. But you keep an abundance of golf outfit. I have definitely purchased a lot of golf gear. Do you? That is one of the keys to golf. My shirts in my closet are outrageous right now. Why? Because I had a wardrobe before I took up golf, and now I have an entire golf wardrobe. Do you change at the turn? Well, if I need to, yeah. I mean, you know, you got to bring an extra shirt. How often do you need to? Well, usually it's the mustard and the ketchup from the hot dog. So yeah, pretty much every time. Hot dog bowl. And sometimes he drives home from the turn. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you have to do that. I never turned around. Sometimes I wonder if Mike doesn't come to golf as much just because he doesn't want to follow the, like, decorum and rules of golf. Which? Which part? Like collared shirts and. The collared shirt part is pretty weird to me. I assumed it bothered you. Well, yeah, because they're like, hey, your shirt looks just like mine, but that one. Have you seen what's going on with the neck? Holy crap, that's a fancy shirt. Do you feel the same way about, like, a fine dining, not letting you wear, like, a hat, and you have to wear a collared shirt in a restaurant, too? That one, at least, I can vibe more with that. That one. Is it because of the, like, environment? Well, it's like you're all in an enclosed area. Okay. When it's like, when you're golfing, it's like. They don't see you. No. The only people who see me are the people behind me because I'm so bad and too slow. I don't think Al Borland likes the dress code either. Yeah, my man. Luckily, he dresses like a golfer all the time. I do, but some golf courses make you wear a belt. I don't ever wear a belt. Why? Like, you have to tuck in your shirt? And me and Kyle and Jason went to a restaurant once, and I got turned away because I didn't have a belt. I had belt loops on my pants. I just can't stand dress codes, man. My man. I've been in the restaurant where they made me take the hat off, and what was under the hat was not good. It was like, you prefer this? And I was so self-conscious the rest of the time. We have a great show today, Unsolved Mysteries episode, talking about. Belt loops? Yeah. Yeah, I didn't need a belt for the restaurant. I just needed belt loops. Oh, I missed that. And I was wearing some, like, expensive joggers, but they didn't have belt loops. Oh, wait a minute. You were wearing joggers? What the hell with that? I mean. At a fancy restaurant. That's like sweatpants. No, these are. That's sweatpants to a restaurant. No, these are nice joggers. Were they made of sweatpants material? No. Were they made of. When you walk, does it go. No. That's. Khakis make that sound, too, my guy. Unsolved Mysteries, some NFL news to talk about, and the Ultimate Draft Kit is here. UltimateDraftKit.com. More updates to the Mock Draft Tool have been made. We're getting the Keeper support into those and some other stuff. Other tweaks and changes to the settings for you. You'll probably see new updates to the UDK every day or two for the rest of August. The Draft Analyzer's in there as well. Mike, you were going to add something? Oh, just the news. I mean, news is starting to pour out. Another. You're just saying you can get your news feed inside the UDK. Well, you can get your news feed, I'm saying, for the changes. Like, you know, you had. Like, the last month or so is really just. A couple vibes here or there from some beat reporters. Now, real stuff is happening, which. Like injuries. Always happens is the injuries. Yeah, that sucks. Yeah. All right, quick question of the day comes in from Adam in Los Angeles. Hey, ballers. How do you go about prepping for a live draft without a common ADP displayed and the randomness that can come from everyone following different ADPs? Should you reach earlier on players that you must have? Well, if you. If you must have them, then probably. Or should you trust that players should fall to their, quote, normal ADP? It's a good question. I mean, our main league of record, we purposely every. We have a draft room. There is no ADP sorting there. You come prepared or you don't come. And so we're used to this format where you are. And I prefer it. Obviously, we have the UDK. That's what I draft with. That's what I bring to my draft. So the order of players I like are in there. But I do pay attention to the ADP on that. Like, our charts will always show the ADP of a guy. I'm not going to reach two rounds for a guy. Even if he's, like, the next up in the ranking, especially in the first half of a draft, that's just malpractice where it's like you still want to squeeze as much value as you can. So you will take some risks of letting a guy go that you know usually goes later. I will say that you also need to know your league. I know in our league, we're a keeper league. Rookies? Yeah. Rookies. Rookies, ADP, throw that crap out the window. If you want a rookie, you are taking them two or three rounds ahead of ADP sometimes. And so you just have to know that. That's not going to be the same in every league. Yeah. And positionally, like, you know, in our. Because we're in a keeper league, we know that there's a bunch of running backs that are kept. So all of a sudden that the shift of the supply of really usable running backs, it depletes rather quickly. So you have to know all those things. But have your rankings and just be ready. Just be ready to take your guys. Yep, absolutely. All right, let's talk news. News and notes from around the league. Okay, we have a decent amount to talk about. Jameer Gibbs, Bijan Robinson, both on fifth-year option contracts, rookie contracts. Not practicing on Wednesday as they await new deals. Get that shmoney. Yeah, that will be happening very soon. I wonder, like, who's going to get it first? Like, what's the approach here? Are the Atlanta Falcons waiting? They're waiting for the Gibbs contract to set the baseline? Oh, man, they should be talking. They should be a little collusion. The two general managers should be talking to each other. I believe that's called collusion. Yeah, I was thinking Bijan and Gibbs should be talking. Yes, they should. Whatever. Whatever. Just go get the same contract. They're both going to get so much money. But I do. It is interesting, the game of chicken of, like, whoever goes second gets more. Yes. Because they'll be like, I want, even if it's the quintessential, I want a dollar more. Yeah. Whoever signs first, like the smarter franchise, is whoever signs the first one to a contract. Bijan Robinson is 24.4 years old. Jameer Gibbs is 24.3 years old. Same draft, same spot in terms of, like, the leverage. The leverage is gone for both teams. Yeah, I mean. Like, Algiers gone and Montgomery's gone. They're in such identical situations. They're the number one and two picks in most fantasy drafts. There's plenty of times where. And they both get paid. And right now they can't get hurt when they're waiting. Yeah, where a veteran player is holding out for a contract and you're not sure if they're going to get it or not. There's no one unsure here. This is a situation where it's like, just figure it out. Jonathan Teller. Let's try that again. Who is that? Jonathan Teller. He is at practice. He wants an extension as well. He says, quote, I have faith. There have been some good conversations, but I have faith between my agent and the front office. So he is not a hold in. That's one where if he was holding out, that would scare me a little bit more. He already did. Like, he did that years ago and then got the money. So maybe they have a better relationship now. Chris Solave has no restrictions in his, quote, full go. We love it. Jordan Tyson participated fully in 11. Love it. You're not going to love this one. The 49ers news is always 49ers news. We already, last show, Christian Kirk not practicing. Right. No one wants to hear this. Ricky Pearsall not practicing because of swellness. Swellness. You're thriving. You're really crushing it today, Andy. My knee is swell. Swellness? I mean, I had, I had French toast for lunch. All right. That'll do it. Someone told me to get the. Do you feel swellings? Okay. So I've got. Somebody told me to get croissant French toast because they said it would be good. And then I did. Here's what's really funny about that. And now I'm not so swellness. At lunch, you're, you're, you're doing just fine-ness. At lunch, at the end, Andy offers if anyone wants some eggs. Because we ordered from a breakfast place and it was just, it was just some like healthy We eat eggs. scrambled eggs and i literally thought to myself wow good for you andy you you went healthy you just like i didn't eat enough like you didn't eat enough but all you got was like some some eggs i didn't just find out i got croissant french toast yeah i did you should try it it's so good kyle is letting us know that swellness is a rare archaic word meaning the quality of being swell well ricky pierce saul's knee is not swell no but it is swollen yeah and the team says all options are being explored there are concerns he missed like six weeks last year with a pcl strain and then missed more time later with knee and ankle and it's the same knee that same pcl and all options they are the s word sir being used yes yeah no that's um the fact that it is the same knee that he had an entire off season for and it is um it is you all right yeah did you have some french toast no um i saw a funny slack message from you andy you got me uh look the uh the issue here is it's already swollen up and it's the same knee that he struggled with last year yeah they are probably going to have to rest didn't fix it i'm not a doctor but i mean the options are rest more and pray more and then hopefully it's fine but what would lead you to think oh this time it'll work it's terrible scary scary proposition i mean the the implications here you know kirk pierce saul mike evans is kirk is banged up mike evans is tied with davante adams as the two oldest players being drafted in the top 72 in fantasy the first six rounds those are the two most vulnerable to you know i looked at this i looked at the old players that we've taken the top five that we've taken over the last three years in the top 72 and how things worked out and the basic as the basic conclusion is this that if you have age baked in as a discount they kind of can work out if you're paying up for them they've been there's been some years where it can be injury i mean look at mike evans last year he was a loss last year yes he was one of the oldest again last year and it was a loss because of all the injuries but standing in the way of this is all to say standing in the way of rookie um deshaun's stribbling stribbling yeah is a 30-year-old rookie who's been in the way of a rookie who's been in the way of a rookie who's been 33-year-old mike evans right now because pierce all and kittle's hurt and pierce all's hurt and kirk and kirk is hurt yeah juan jennings is gone so uh and and all the news has been so positive around stribling so yeah stribling is is uh he's definitely a beneficiary here but also i do think i mean mike evans i i stand a little bit more on an island i mean he is the clear one right now for this team is currently healthy and i do think that there is i don't know what your study was as far as injury dip based on whether where that player has historically gone or just what rounds of the draft but obviously mike evans is not being drafted where he used to be drafted no no he's he's priced where there's an age discount right now him and adams are so that's good i mean that's a good thing you're not paying that you know somebody like henry like we're not pricing him factoring in age anymore like people just keep taking him at the top because we he's ageless uh or so it seems all right um there was also running back jordan james who seemed like he should be the favorite for the running back two position for the san francisco 49ers he suffered a rib fracture so he will be out some time which opens that door back up and it's basically kaylin black their third round selection till he is hurt yes but garendo is also hurt you know that the electrical substation is it's already doing some work got one two got two uh we have falcons quarterback news to a tongue of iloa suffered a flare-up he will be out at training camp oh that's not good but don't worry um michael pennix is not cleared for 11 on 11 and it might be four more weeks yeah so they are um on hold the phone they signed cooper rush oh the two jack strand yeah the two injury right now they're saying gibbs more than b shop yeah yeah right now they're saying that it's a minor thing it's you know days not weeks for tua and in the meantime pennix isn't out there tank dell was not placed on the pup to start camp all right but he will be held out of team drills to open yeah man please get back tank the world is better with you in it wasn't he a my guy the year he got hurt yeah yeah yeah by one of us i don't even remember what it was that was yours yeah um all right chris brazell also pretty significant injury for the carolina rookie they're talking like eight weeks yeah he was he was carted off third round pick too early to tell however it could be pretty serious all right we've got a main segment coming up unsolved mysteries diving into a number of questions and situations and uh we'll find out what we think in just a minute i'm just too old to be eating like a cake for lunch i think probably but it's just hard for me to resist because it tastes good i think that if i didn't have i wasn't like born with the genetics i have in my family i could be one of the heaviest people on earth you definitely eat worse than i do a lot of times and you are in much better shape than i am but you also work out more so you know tomato i will say when we went to the ff expo you also got a mountain of pancakes chocolate chip i'll admit that that was a mistake yeah it was it was we got there and i was trying to tell you that pancakes are quite variable on the style in which they come they could be like big giant pancakes do you get a bunch of them do you get like a short stack you got a bunch of big ones this was the equivalent this is the funny thing we do as as people is we say cake for breakfast is ridiculous yeah but then we say chocolate chip pancake pancakes are acceptable which is i mean what i got was the equivalent of a full birthday cake worth of thickness yeah six inch deep like you know eight by nine slice of cake covered that in syrup and i felt ashamed of myself so perhaps it was on the menu perhaps as a youth i wasn't paying as much attention you know we we had the the chocolate chip pancakes or the smiley face stuff i feel like the way they do it now though you think they're stepping it up well they have they haven't like that would that's more recent in history in in terms of giving all the bread in terms of like pancakes the history of pancakes like and i like that they're like hey american appetites mike i don't know if you know this they have increased cake for breakfast no what if i said i made it in a pan you're like oh whoa that's part of a balanced breakfast oh yeah it's in the name it is right there yeah it's just a cake in a pan that you cover with rich maple syrup instead of frosting and maybe sometimes have chocolate chips in it instead of sprinkles yeah okay that you have in your oven cake right right right yeah i would never have an oven cake for breakfast but you put it in a pan i'm in we're we're a weird species yeah we are um here we go unsolved mysteries all right our unsolved mystery number one that we're going to start with is should you buy the injury dip this year there are four big names among others obviously i mean you could argue jonathan brooks and other players too but neighbors kittle tucker craft patrick mahomes um jason you you know we've had we've had conversations around buying the injury dip we we looked up some information 140 players from 2021 to 2025 who are either coming off of surgery so they were limited in camp or they were picked or um picked up a training camp injury like during camp and so a pretty big sample size 140 players just giving you the data before you answer the question 26 or 37 players exceeded their adp 57 percent failed to meet their adp that was 80 players in that sample and then 23 players 16 percent uh they met adp but did not exceed so you know you look at that and you say like 42 43 percent of them still worked out as a pick yeah that's one way to look at it yeah i mean because if you meet your adp expectation then it's well but keep in mind you're buying a dip so your expectation was lower of of course but i'm saying if they but you still drafted them like they gave you the points that they were drafted you're hoping for more no i i don't agree with that really yeah because i think buying the injury dip implies an expectation that surpasses the adp 100 like i don't if i'm taking a player on a on a round a multi-round discount and they perform to that round i'm not happy with that pick i i with these i would agree i think generally speaking you would you would not be happy with that obviously not a bust it didn't ruin your career but you're not happy with that pick so i'm your chance but the opportunity cost of what what else you gave up in that round and more than 50 percent of them 57 percent didn't even meet that the opportunity cost is the same because they're they're meeting the they're meeting the price so looking at this this is 140 players from 2021 to 2025 this was a redo of a study that in 2018 on the things to remember episode it was don't buy the injury dip and at that time we had kind of um looked at the data and it was really bad it was like you know you more often than not those dips don't pay off now this data you can argue whether you know you're happy or sad with not meeting the or with just meeting but not exceeding the adp dip obviously you can't argue that the majority 57 percent correct failed to even get to the dip 26 percent clearly happy with so when i look at it the way that i interpret that data is way more often than not buying the injury dip doesn't pay off yeah i would say that the idea of them paying off it for me i interpreted that as outperforming the status quo at that spot and because you're trying to get a discount on them so for me 75 percent of the time it doesn't work so let's look at the specific players and how it applies this year because this year there's a handful of guys that we absolutely love um you know a couple of tight ends and george kittle and tucker craft that were dominating in fantasy last year other than their injuries and then obviously malik neighbors who looked like he was going to start on the pup didn't even start on the training camp pup and his running routes today and looking very good let's just put it this way neighbors kittle craft where do they go if there is no injury malik neighbors goes in the first round i'm not sure if they're going to be in the first round yeah for sure he goes in the first round he was never injured absolutely he would be up there with he was in the first round last year and that was 12 that was with a you're not sure we have a good quarterback and george kittle you're talking about him fifth round yeah so he goes behind mcbride and bowers yes but much higher than ninth and then tucker craft probably goes ahead of kittle yeah i would agree with maybe even ahead of the he'd be there with the second year guys loveland yeah so that that's kind of where like if you apply that data the way that i'm thinking about it with where they belong versus the discount you're getting like you know if you drop malik neighbors at 402 and you get the performance of 402 would you have been happy with malik neighbors because i think you're going to appropriate these guys into spots that maybe isn't the same thing as what you would get there i don't know no yeah i don't i don't think you would be happy with that i mean you're talking about a wide receiver selection that you're trying to swing for the fences as opposed to right next to being drafted the same spots t higgins um you know if i i would imagine that that would be a better pick than someone that is drafted and just barely performing at this level of a draft pick so it seems like the adp for neighbors is likely to to rise significantly he is that video looked like it yeah there's a video of him you know he's running cutting running routes and and not seeing the video he's he is 100 doing all those things that doesn't mean he's ready to play football no but but it's better than not seeing him do it it is except it's not better for adp no but it's also way better than the video where he was at the uh yeah celebrity baseball game and it looked like he couldn't round first no he looked like he had a like a stilt on or something like that but um so so when you look at neighbors kittle craft patrick mahomes is the reward there in the draft to outweigh the risk of taking these players obviously if you take kittle and he doesn't start week one you're now rostering two tight ends right you've you've traded the selection for kittle and another pick to fill in for kittle for a time um what is your what is your outlook based on that data for those four guys so i think everyone is priced honestly i think appropriately like malik is that's an expensive pick there's great players going around there but the upside is by the end of the year you have a wide receiver who's returning first round value kittle because he's because of the age and when the actual injury was it was in the wild card round and it was an achilles where we just don't have tons and tons of data on on guys tearing their achilles like bets did talk about the fact it's a mid-tendon injury he said it's close to where the tendon meets the muscle of the calf and that is generally good news for achilles recovery outcomes are more favorable but like you said he does have age working against him he does but he's going in you know the ninth as about the tight end 10 you know the i don't feel like the three of us have taken him in any mocks there no not usually on the board i i i haven't i mean i i've been the only one of these guys that i've been drafting is malik neighbors i think at the fourth round value that dip is big enough to where when he gets back to health and i am aware that it's going to start slow i'm willing to take that on when he ends up rising from this i'm probably also out on malik neighbors because i think he'll end up if he is if he is on track to play week one and the videos look good keep in mind he will usually these players will have a period of time where they're not back to peak performance even when they're on the field i imagine he's going to be drafted around like aj brown uh you know nico collins so that would be like early second round right now and that would be too expensive for me the other guys i'm pretty much out on well the one thing i was going to bring up was patrick mahomes just in the fact that his adp has dropped every year for the last three years but now so our expectations for him are very low they were going to be low if he was 100 healthy ending last year with the run that he had in fantasy but ninth round mahomes he was fifth round mahomes in 2025 third round mahomes in 2024 now he's ninth round mahomes he's basically like i mean he's he's a really late round quarterback he had the torn acl and lcl not placed on the pup not going to see the rushing production from last year that's the issue because last year so much of his fantasy production came from the running game he couldn't find someone to throw the ball to and he scrambled like he had never done in his career had a lot of time to do it and he's not going to see the rushing production from last year a ton of rushing yards rushing touchdowns really had that dog in him he was you know willing them on drives with his legs that will vanish this year for two reasons one is the injury and two they should have a running game um with kenneth walker there so if you take that away i don't i don't love the upside yeah he was quite a few fantasy points per game higher than his previous two years last year yeah yeah because the past few years have been horrifically bad his his passing numbers averaging 256 yards and 1.6 passing touchdowns per game like you take away a good chunk of that rushing and those are those numbers are not going to be getting he was on pace for over 500 rushing yards last year so his um his points per game would have you know looking at last year still not been good enough to be i mean that's still to put him outside the top 12 i i don't think they've done enough to convince me to yeah be in on patrick mahomes where george kittle to me at at that spot because jason i'm with you of if you don't get an elite tight end just wait just wait because they don't make a difference anymore they're all the same george kittle could be a difference it is it comes with a huge amount of risk but the the the risk of those other players is none but the upside is none does that mean tucker crafts off your board in the six no not no so i think i'm open to it i think that i am less than i am less than i am less than i am less open to it but i'm that one i feel like uh i'm holding my breath on um i know mike you've talked about you're pretty in on tucker craft yeah what he was doing last year was uh was an impact difference maker at the position um but you got to spend a higher pick on a player that might not be the weak one yeah that's why i'm out i'm not a player but his injury was in november uh what was the latest so the latest we've seen he was so he's on the pop if you didn't hear that tucker craft is on the training camp and uh he said quote i'll probably come off the pup here very soon so it's him i mean it's quoted as i it was not sourced to tucker craft but probably i'm just gonna do some analysis here unsolved mystery number two can the streaming quarterback strategy still work in single quarterback leagues this was something we talked about i feel like ad nauseum from probably the first year we started the show through yeah maybe like five or six years it was an elite strategy so some data as you kind of craft your answer to the question but some data that's interesting about the streaming quarterback strategy and what we've seen evolve in the nfl if you look and duane mcfarland tweeted this out so this is where the the data comes from but the number of quarterbacks to throw for 250 yards a game we were at 17 quarterbacks in 2016 19 quarterbacks in 2018 16 16 quarterbacks in 2016 yeah then in 2022 2023 it was 10 and then 10 so i guess when the uh the two shell started hitting started becoming becoming very popular now In 2024, there were eight of them. Last year, there were seven. So, I mean, we had a year in 2018 of 19 quarterbacks with 250 yards a game. Again, that's an average. That's the average of 250 yards a game. Now it's seven. We used to shoot for 250 and two when you're streaming a quarterback, and we're not seeing that as a very common average. Yeah, not an average across the season. But that's the point of streaming, right, is you can find a matchup in a game where a guy who you would not usually expect averaging 250 and two should go out there and throw for 250 and two, if not more. Now, we have also seen the fewest total pass attempts last year in the last 15 years. Yeah, but scramble rates have risen. And that's where, when we're talking about late-round quarterbacks, streaming quarterbacks, you're looking for those guys that can scramble. That's today's NFL is using the legs more. That's better for fantasy football. So that's Jackson Dart. We're more aware of that. And so those players are getting pulled up in drafts. Exactly. That's what happened. That's why the strategy, you know, if you're saying, oh, it hasn't worked as well lately. Yeah, because the average fantasy football player is wising up. This year, though, you still have a handful of guys who are interesting because they fit the bill. You know, 10th round or later, at least from the 80 p.m. scene right now, Bo Nix, like what's his rushing floor, 300? Yeah, that's the floor. He should hit 300 yards. Tyler Shuck. I love him. He should hit 300 rushing yards. The next guy, Malik Willis. He could hit 500 rushing yards like Malik. He could hit 800. Malik Willis is the. So along, though, with the rushing, because the rushing is just the floor. You need the passing to take you over the top to become a weak winning type of a quarterback. So that's the question for, like, in my opinion, I'll just do Shuck versus. Willis. I'm so much more confident in the offensive passing attack of the Saints and Tyler Shuck. Certainly. But you're only getting, you know, I'm not getting Malik Willis rushing yards. But if Willis and that team, if they can figure out a way, that's a. That's a large, but I'm trying to figure out how, like, when you're your wide receiver, one's probably huge, but it's probably Malik Washington. And we're talking about like Greg Dulcich as a sleeper. But if Malik Willis. If Malik Willis can find his way to 200, like 200 to 215, and he's and you're getting, you know, one and a half to two passing touchdowns, then goodness gracious. So, well, not all that being said for, I guess. Do you believe the late round quarterback strategy? Yes. With including streaming, not just finding a nugget, but like actually having to play week to week streaming can still work. Yeah, I still believe it. I do, too. Yeah, I mean, there are names we like. I mean, I think. No matter what. We say on the show, even if every show was dedicated to Jared Goff and Matthew Stafford, those players, ADPs are not moving. No. So there are going to be players like that, like Baker, Daniel Jones coming back that are going to be out there for free on waivers every week unless you're in a super flex league. So, yeah, it makes sense. All right. Unsolved mystery. Number three. Number three. What will the Chargers offense look like with new offensive coordinator Mike McDaniel? It'll look sexy. You think? Oh, I do. I think the offense is going to be great. It will look very different. It is a team that ran Justin Herbert into the ground, not just because of a bad offensive line, but also they didn't bring tight ends in line very much. They utilize 12 personnel on just 6% of their offensive plays. That's the lowest rate in the NFL. McDaniel, you know, he is a guy that's going to come in and they you look at the transactions. They're going to come in and they're going to come in and they're going to come in and they brought a fullback in. They brought in two tight ends. One is a blocking specialist, David Njoku and Charlie Kohler. The offensive line just got so much help. Two all pro tackles that weren't there last year. So I think this I think it's going to change a lot. The to your point about Kohler and Njoku, like Mike McDaniel was one of the, you know, at least in Miami, maybe it was personnel related as well, but he only had three or more wide receivers on 41% of plays. He likes the, the, you know, we were, we were very, well, he, he likes to running backs. Sure. Like he, he, like Mike McDaniel is, is willing to ebb and flow with trends or personnel. I know that having two running backs out there, the amount of time he did, you know, like from 23 on, he had a chance and it's like, well, a chance a running back, but he's, he's just, he's a real. Versatile player. We need to get him involved in the passing game. So what will it look like? I think, I think you will have more 12. The idea of them running out Hampton and Keaton Mitchell is pretty interesting. They also brought an Ingold to play fullback in front of Hampton. So you can have him out there in those personnel. I, I, it's hard because the chargers feel like they feel like a team where like you go in to the doctor and the diagnosis seems like it's so simple. And he's just going to write you the most basic script and you're going to go home and get well. And now we're on like year five of like, you know what you have, you, maybe you have a different disease than we thought. And we keep trying a different shot and a different medicine and a different vitamin. And we are always left with an illness. I think the personnel matters. And, and last year I was very excited for them. Yeah. I was going to say, we were, we got to be honest about like last off season with the Greg Roman. Combo. Right. But we were in that boat, but it's the, the, the thing that happened, the biggest change to me. I mean, we've talked about it a bunch, but they lost their two superstar tackles. So they went, I mean, look at it this way. Herbert had led the league in percentage of dropbacks pressured. That's the first quarterback since 2018 who led the league in that stat and made the playoffs. He was, they just didn't have an offensive line. Then they went out and got one of the best centers. Yeah. And now you get to all pro tackles. Like you're going to go from one of the worst to one of the best lines. And why didn't they give Greg Roman a pass and keep him? Why someone's got to take the fall, man. Well, but I mean, why can't they just say, yeah, we're our offensive line was all beat up. I mean, I feel like it was, I think it's oversimplistic to blame the offensive line by itself. So here's a question about the chargers offense for fantasy. We just talked about it and it's great for fantasy. A lot of times people think you want more wide receivers on the field. You don't the consolidation of only having two means that the target is going to be a targets go to the players that are on the field. However, there will be far more of that for the chargers than what we're used to seeing. And so the question comes down to lad who is their best wide receiver. Like he's their best wide receiver, but he's been, you know, his slot rate the last two years, 71%, 64%. I just have no worries about lab getting on the field because I don't think Mike McDaniel is an idiot. Fair. No, I thought he was an idiot. Then I would, like if this was Nathaniel Hackett, not to, but you know, like a true idiot. I, you are saying Greg Roman's an idiot. No, he didn't. I mean, no, I'm not. Yeah, he didn't. He didn't take lad McConkie off the field a bunch. No, he just put him in the slot. That's the idiot part. The idiot part is not playing lad McConkie. Okay. It's not where you play lad McConkie. It's not playing him at all. So the fear with the breakdown of two wide is that McConkie will not be a part of it. Yeah. I mean, I have no fear of that. Yeah. He should a hundred percent be on the field for that. I last year, Trey Harris technically led. The wide receivers and snaps when they were in the two wide receiver set. Um, I'm just saying it would, I'm not laughing. I'm getting made fun of for saying Malconkie. I had French toast swelling again. I had French toast and you know what? I'm happy. I did. It was delicious. Malconkie calling. But, um, if you look at it, what's funny is, uh, I don't remember. I tweeted it variation of, of, of where wide receivers line up. One of the players that never moves. The. The. The. The most was Quentin Johnston. Mm-hmm like he just doesn't do anything else college on, um, and the versatility is going to help in this offense for live McConkie. The, this is like, this is a really big one for training camp to, to let us know, you know, when, when McDaniel came in, he had, uh, a lot of very nice things to say about huge, uh, so it's like, well, then we, okay, we expect him for sure to be one of the guys, then is it going to be loud on the outside? And now you get some Trey Harris talk coming up, who is like, he is a, a, a good, uh, wide receiver in his own, right? He just hasn't had a lot of opportunity in the NFL. So it's pay attention here. To me, a lot of what happens with Los Angeles is that, and maybe why it's frustrating is the office, they're just made for conversation. I feel like every off season, we have tons of conversation around the chargers since Herbert became their quarterback. Mm-hmm. And there's so much, and there's a lot of positivity around all their players, every off season, but I'm at the point now where I want to see it proven out on the football field. And I don't feel like we ever allow for the middle in the middle outcome that you're just kind of, you're, you're kind of, okay. Is that what you think for, what do you think this offense, regardless, throw the, you know, the years in the past in the garbage or whatever this offense, do you think they will be a middle offense, a top offense or a poor offense? Not every offense has the opportunity to reach a top five offense and this one does with the personnel and the coaching but no i think the most realistic outcome is that they're a 8 to 15 offense on the positive side i think that's the most realistic outcome for the offense yeah i i usually like splitting um the the league when i think of offenses in thirds to really think like the top third offense are good offenses and the bottom third offenses are ones i want to avoid i think they'll be in the top third which i think you think that too based on you know the 8 to 15 is more in the top third no no that'd be more in the middle because a third means there's three groups yeah but it goes past 10 11 12 13 14 15 yeah 11 i mean you can't you can't evenly split 32 and 3 8 to 15 like what numbers are more in the more numbers are in the middle well but if it's you can't even split 32 and 3 so it's 11 like what numbers are more in the more numbers are in the do you count 11 as the top third because you can't it's not oh because there's 32 yeah i did break it up 10 10 10 in my head yeah i shouldn't we shouldn't have really been no that's hey you you could take two teams and just be like cleveland we don't count you we will get our calculator out i will say yeah uh with the chargers if you're going to draft them i think their schedule matters a ton they open against arizona where they're nearly 12 point favorites then they play the 8.5 point favorites this is incredible like last just it's just a reminder last year justin herbert in week one scored 28 fantasy points and became so locked into everyone's roster that like you're like we did it it's happening for justin herbert then it fell apart i bring that up because week three is set up to do that again week three is at buffalo week four is at seattle then it's denver and then it's on the road against kansas city so you wow i think they're gonna have a great first two weeks saying sell i i'm not saying sell i'm just saying be honest with yourself about what just happened yeah let me they're gonna beat the crap out of the out of two of the like arizona and vegas let me audit my bottom four teams i think they will be a top one offense for two weeks okay let's take a break i'll be right back all right we have we have two more unsolved mysteries in time for one more oh so you guys get to decide oh we either talk about the unsolved mystery of lamar jackson bouncing back to elite form for fantasy football okay or we discuss the backfield for the jacksonville jaguars and how it will be split oh well that one's not a mystery for my i think it's right now not a mystery for mike or i yeah i'm i'm yeah i'm a little gay i'm a little gay i'm a little gay yeah baby welcome oh yeah come on board let's go let's go this is the day today is the day that chris rodriguez just got yes active to go make plays at camp to go train on the side yeah yeah but he can do it now i i simply look tootin should i mean he's a high upside all the all the offseason hold on let me let me find it um where's our off season you know player in camp so far but we haven't seen anybody else just saying so are we discussing yeah let's go there let's go there no i don't want you um how will the jack jacksonville jaguars backfield be split travis achan jr is vacating 312 opportunities 260 carries 52 targets six receiving touchdowns um we have a lot of red zone attempts that he he had in that offense that are you know going to be up for grabs i think that's part of the discussion right yep 53 rushing attempts inside the red zone that was the fourth most in the nfl and those are gone so you got that says it's a great offense that's what that says you got a great offense that was in the red zone of time and the guy they got the ball the most there i mean that's right behind mcafree john the taylor derrick henry james cook and blank space for so chris rodriguez was one of the offseason signings had played at kentucky with liam cohen not placed on pup starting to do individual drills at camp he's coming off foot surgery he did not participate in minicamp bashal tootin sophomore i we brought it up on the show when liam cohen talked about him he said in year one did a lot of great things but also had to learn a complicated offense pass protections you know figuring out what to do and a lot of it was not reacting a lot of it was thinking about what to do and a lot of it was thinking about what to do a lot of it was processing and we all saw you know to me what i saw the most out of tootin as a rookie was explosive plays that ended up just happening more in the passing game uh on a play here there than it was you know chunk plays in the backfield over and over again but he has that capability he's a fast runner he's 432 yeah at 209 like this is he is his build oh boy i'm sorry and the glass eater yep yeah i'm just we got enough oh that's a good quote now we've had a hold on we've had a crayon eater before and we know who that is and his favorite color crayon is blue yes did we ever hey did we ever share that yeah we did okay yeah cam scataboo said his favorite crayon he's a crayon eater right we got another category mike liam cohen came out on wednesday and said this is troubling uh about crud about chris rodriguez he doesn't say a ton but he's tough he's one of those glass eaters he is a crayon eater he's a crayon eater he's a crayon eater he's a he's gonna run through a wall for his teammates for his coaches for their organization so we're eating glass now okay which is more dangerous than crayons oh yeah by a children can exponentially are crayons like completely like non-toxic i think they probably have to be huh there probably was a time where they were very toxic be a fun poop creating a toxic oh just not a toxic poop okay a non-toxic crayon poop would be a color the glass one would be a painful wait what it's i don't think it would be a colorful i think it would still be brown i'd yeah there's only one way to find out oh man there is only one way to find out uh and and google the falcon just throws in the slack channel two thousand dollars and i'll eat a box oh my falcon we know that josh will do it for way less josh would eat a box of crayons for way less money let me take lower lowest bids okay now we're already down to 1200 keep the bids coming in one thousand let's see okay are we talking wait wait wait are we talking like 64 count no no no no standard 16 children's whatever that is 12 16 the normal pack we all know what 1000 900 800 400 whoa oh there we go we're gonna go let me tell you this okay now we're we're at a range where someone might be eating crayons we're at a range where i chip in 100 you guys chip in 100 we just needed one we gotta get it to 300 jeremy's good for this first 300 for a chip in that's what i mean yeah i'll take care of that matt you're on the hook now i got a new i want to buy so are you eating a box of crayons i have good news for you this might change your this might change yes eating a box of crayons can make your poop colorful so there is actually not just money in this but an exciting time crayola has tested their products to ensure they pose no poisoning risk though eating them is still not recommended due to the crayon oh man a box of 24 is the crayon standard okay okay so we'll get back to this 300 and you got a deal 400 i'm well i'm setting the line at three four all right you chime in if you change your mind by the end of the show you said you have a new putter to buy but you must not want it that bad no um listen this does matter like crawd is a glass eater yes and there are 53 red zone opportunities available chris rodriguez there's a fatigue and kind of like dismissal of him because of the years of injury and not getting opportunities he was four or five a carry last year on a decent i mean i think it's more than six touchdowns yeah no he he was actually he was some of the advanced metrics for chris rodriguez were were very good we've always liked him like as a show crawd we've always said when he's get when he gets his opportunities he's he's been pretty good but it does really seem like he's the backup for one simply he's coming in he's got to learn this new offense that liam cohen said it took it was very hard to learn um and so that he knows it from from kentucky but go on they'll be out there running kentucky's offense still but um then you have the biggest question to me in this backfield is who's going to catch passes because travis etn that's where his fantasy points came was really in the receiving game that is an important part of this offense now is it neither neither one of these guys have a huge production profile in the nfl but crawd year one as a rookie had two targets his number went down to one in 13 years played and then last year in 13 games he got his new career high with four targets on the season so it's like that really maybe he does steal the goal line and that could be a problem that's a problem um it is also possible we should keep the door open the undrafted free agent running back look when alan could Be involved in the receiving game. He is a good pass protector. And so, but it does seem like if you're taking your shot on someone who's going to be, one, explosive, and two, involved in the passing game where most of the fantasy points are going to come from, you know, I'm gassed up for Tootin'. Also, in the range of outcomes is that Bayshall Tootin' is a total workhorse. You know, it's like when Cohen was in Tampa Bay, when healthy, Bucky Irving was, he was the running back position. And truly, H.N. Jr. was the running back position last year for the Jags. So, you know, we don't have a full gigantic sample here to go off of, but Cohen might just be one of these guys. It's like, no, I don't want to tip. You know, I don't want to tip the play because if you have Crod back there, my defense that I'm calling, I'm calling in a run stop. So, I guess a good way to put it would be, are you ever, if Tootin' doesn't get gassed up, ADP-wise, which he will, but let's just say Tootin' is drafted at the top of the fourth round, because I think he probably will be. Top of fourth round would be a substantial ADP jump for where he's going right now. Yeah, he's not going to go a 5.06, though, if the current, okay, make it 5.01. Okay. Okay, make it 5.01. Is there any chance you're going to be disappointed with that? Pick, because of the distance. 100%. You think so? Yes. There is, Tootin's profile to me is a very risky pick, but the upside is a three-down running back for a top-five offense in the NFL, which will be very, very substantial league-winning capability. Travis Etienne is a good, well-rounded player, but I don't think he's, like, the best of the best, and he was the running back 10 in fantasy football last year for this offense. You can tell Jason has made a significant shift in his Tootin mentality. I am worried about the liability of a box of crayons, so here's where I'm at. Oh. I mean, everything I'm seeing, non-toxic. Safety. They're more disgusting than dangerous, but what's our lowest bid for one crayon? One crayon? We don't need 24 crayons. I just want to know. 50. Okay. 40. $40? $40 for a crayon? Now I'm feeling bad about, like, do we not pay them enough? I don't know. Okay. $40. $40 for a crayon? Now let me ask you. Is the box of crayons for $400? No, it's $300. That's what it always was. You can have the box for $300 or one crayon. Or one crayon for $40. Jason's pick of color for a $40. Thank you. Yeah, that's fine. I'd like to go higher if that's an option, like more crayons. You'd like to eat more crayons? Yeah, you can. I thought you meant more money. I was like, this is not how negotiation works. $300. $300 for a crayon. 300 for a box 40 for a crayon you decide it's your choice up front this is all off the record i just feel like our liability goes up with the more crayons we make him eat yeah no this is we're gonna take this outside the office yeah tbd this is a personal non-company base no nothing to do with the company at all this is just friends goofing around but social content you know i mean well i mean we would they would want to see our friends just documenting history you guys can pay me and i'll pay matt just to there we go launder that a little bit i would actually never ask but would you like to ask you know what i am out i will not be doing this anymore yeah you guys shouldn't matt you should have taken the deal you didn't take it we're done but uh jeremy has a question for you yeah uh if 40 bucks for one crayon or 300 would you like to offer me 400 i would not i mean you could be the last 100 of that 400 if you want the box but i'm worried about impaction problems already i changed mine i go 35 oh what is this back in i'm back in one crayon did you do more research it's got the dog it's one crayon i'll do it for 30 okay all right guys okay 30 dollars this is great oh my gosh you could be doing it for the lint in my pockets that sounds like you wanted more i mean yeah how about 10 and then capitalism showed up yeah yeah what a delight all right sold to matt for 30 dollars uh that's between you and yeah yeah i don't know what you're talking about no idea what you're talking about um but we oh it looks like the if you do it looks like somebody bought a couple boxes yeah they're on the way hopefully through your personal account um all right that is gonna do it for today's episode of the fantasy footballers podcast five days a week coming up in august on monday we have the ice and fire episode oh baby that's our next episode right correct because uh it's saturday's august 1st which we go to uh five shows which monday through friday in august amazing uh this saturday there won't be an episode of the fantasy footballers however on the youtube okay okay our mini series is back it is people have been like if you want a short form version of the fantasy footballers like you're like just the highlights just the tips just the tips by the the fantasy footballers we just recorded those getting ready to release them august is here we're getting ready for the ice and fire ranking shows mock drafts my guys mbps it's all coming this august goodbye thank you for listening to another episode of the fantasy footballers podcast join our fantasy football community on join the foot.com and follow us on twitter at the ff ballers you