Fantasy Football - Top 10 TE Rankings + Most Improved Offenses - Podcast for 8/5

Welcome to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast with your host, Andy Holloway, Jason Moore, and Mike Ride. Oh, welcome in! Not yet, Jason. Not yet, not yet. Wednesday, August 5th, the Fantasy Football, the B, the WHAT? Titan ranking show NFL news, talking improved offenses, talking fantasy, insights to help you on draft day. That's the goal each and every day. Help you prepare for your draft and for the season, Jason has been smirking for a minute. Maybe longer, you in a good mood. I'm in a great mood. We golfed this morning. And that put you in a good mood. No, sir. No, sir. I got a new high score. Yes, which is great plus 27 through 9. No, no, that's real. That is real. That is absolutely real. If I didn't read it out loud. No, it's not real. I am not counting a Mulligan. So technically it would be 28, but I'm going to give myself plus 30. The Falcon was out there with the camera today. That's sure there's got some bad shots in there. I'm sure he does. Well, he was following you. So does he have any good ones? Of Andy, yeah, for sure. No, but I'm fine, man. I will say this. When I started golfing and I was really, really bad, which I have stayed at least consistent. I was breaking clubs. I was that guy. That guy in the course. I'm saying this has been a mental change. This has been something where it's like grow up. Golf's hard. You suck. Yeah, the tumor is not out. If you don't want to be out here. Yeah, exactly. The tumor is unoperable. Just deal with it. Okay, so sad. Okay. There's nothing you can do. So just like get over it. Good, good point, Andy. Yeah, but no, I'm in a good mood. I'm really, really excited about football. I'm really excited about August being here. Get the golf off the back screen. Yeah. And me being horrifically bad, golfer. We'll not get in my way. There's a decent chance that we do some work on that. You know, we get. Yeah, I think we're going to genuinely get some lessons. You know, get better. But this is not a golf show. It sometimes feels like it. We have a giveaway, a big giveaway. That's cool. What are we giving away, Andy? We are giving away a signed. B. John Robinson, Jersey in honor of B. John Robinson's new contract. No, we're giving away an autographed B. John Jersey free to enter. Footclanggiveaway.com. If you're interested in that, we like giving away some stuff in August. It's always fun. So we're going to start with. That doesn't mean it'll be the only giveaway in August. But we'll start with a signed B. John Robinson, Jersey, Footclanggiveaway.com for that. You guys know the UDK. It's available right now at ultimatedraftkit.com. If you want to prepare for your draft in the best possible way, check that out. And yeah, I'm excited too, Jay. It's time to get into a quick question. The day comes in from Billy, which bottom 10 offense from 2025. Do you believe will outperform their touchdown total by 13 plus? The reason he's asking 13 plus is because last year, Mike, on the tips and tricks show, you talked about anticipating offensive systems, and they're basically them improving because over the last decade, at least three teams, mind you, it was six last year. At least three teams every year, jump 13 plus total touchdowns. Yep. And figuring out who it is can really, really help you. Yeah. I mean, because we've said this about rookies going to bad destinations. It's not always bad. You think it's bad, but things change in the NFL so quickly. Just for context, last year's touchdown leaders, the Rams, New England, Seattle Buffalo Detroit. The basement was New Orleans, New York, the jets that is Tennessee, Cleveland, and Las Vegas. Those were, and you're talking the Rams just for, just for like, to see the difference. The Rams scored 65 total touchdowns, the Raiders scored 25 total touchdowns. Oh man. So, but it happens every year. Most of the time, it's more than three, six teams last year. The Rams jumped more than 13 touchdowns, New England jumped more than 13, Jacksonville, Dallas, New York, and Indianapolis. So what's the team for this year? Mike, why don't you start? Uh, the, the amount of chips that I have been pushing into the table on the New Orleans Saints is, uh, we are, we're not approaching inappropriate. Now you're almost all in. We're, we are inappropriate. And now we're borderline just terrifying of how much I believe in, in what they are about to do. Uh, so I, I think with, with Schuck and Co, uh, down there in New Orleans and with Kellan Moore, you know, Colin, Colin the play is getting everything going for the offense. I think that they are one, they are the team to watch to make, you know, a, a New England style jump. That is, I guess one thing I hadn't thought about. I didn't realize how low they were last year because Schuck did play over a, a great part of the year. He didn't have a lot of passing touchdowns. It's tons of yardage and, but a, uh, like a average or below average touchdown. Imagine Kellan Moore is not proud of that number. That 31 number was nearly the bottom of the NFL. And he has a, uh, a resume that, you know, he can call plays and get it into the end zone. They're definitely a great candidate for that. I'm going to go with the Titans. I've been kind of in their corner. This off season, not to the, I think you believe that the Saints can compete in a big way, make the playoffs with the division. I don't, I don't think the Titans can win their division, but I think the difference in their offense, um, could be significant. I mean, the, the giants last year were one of the teams that jumped up 13 touchdowns just with Jackson dark coming in and then adding cam scataboo. The difference that, you know, some pass catchers are going to make in Tennessee. The fact that they were at the, the bottom of the league last year. I think that cam ward is going to take a step forward. Uh, I'm pretty excited about car and I'll take one Dale's there. They've got the weapons and they got the play collar, Brian Dable coming in. So, um, I'm going to go with the Titans. Yeah, I think, uh, play collar makes a big impact. That is probably the number one reason for my team. They were the bottom of the barrel, the, the lowest scoring team in the league. The Raiders last year, obviously you had, you had Brock Bowers injured. You had a terrible offensive line and, and genuinely, I think that the biggest issue with the Raiders offense last year was the Pete Carroll nepotism on the offensive line. You know, the, the, the, the offensive line coach being his son, everyone said it was a, a problem, a mistake when they fired their staff and didn't retain him. It was like, what's going on here? I think Clint Kubiak coming in, bringing in Rick Denison, a really good offensive line coach going out and getting Tyler Lyndon mom, a great center. And then you get Brock back. Now you've got Kirk cousins in and, you know, we don't know what Mendoza will do. Obviously Mendoza, rookie quarterbacks don't usually have a high touchdown number. But when you only scored 25 touchdowns last year, like the bar is pretty easy to step over that 13 more touchdown number. They could still be in the bottom half of offenses and score 13 more touchdowns than they did last year. Rick Denison not being a private investigator. I think I was trying to figure out what that name, like he's either a sheriff in a wild west town. Rick Denison on the case or a detective. Yeah. But you're not talking like current era. I'm all the places in all the world. She had to walk into mine. What a game. There's just Rick Denison. There's just like a car. A cigarette smoke floating in the air. It bays. It's a powerful name. You know, it is. All right. We will jump into the news. News and notes from around the league. Okay. Is this news? NFL Network? Seeing a rap report believes to will likely start week one. This is not. Don't be. Don't be surprised. This is a this is a thought. That's a thought that is the and the thought was has a. Equivocator in it. Right. It's not even a strong thought. It's just like I think maybe. Right. I think. I think maybe the two will start. What's the line that you're bringing up before? Yeah. It's the don't be surprised. Don't be surprised. I get it. I'll leave. We do these things. Sometimes you're talking. And then you're trying to gather your thoughts at the exact same time you're thinking sometimes where those thoughts come down. And you're like, ooh. I got it. I got it. I got a soften that one. I believe most people's expectation here is that two is going to start. Yes. Two is banged up right now, but Pinnix is even further away from getting on the field. Two is just. And he's better. Two was not good. But he was better. But he was better. Pinnix was so I'm in. When I watched the film last year, I was like, I did not remember him being this bad. He was very, very not good. Eight hours ago, two a tongue of L.O. on training camp with Michael Pinnix. Quote. It's definitely a competition. Yeah. is what you'd say if it wasn't on, but no, I noticed that on sleeper, one of the most added players in dynasty leagues was their third string quarterback. Oh my, for the Falcons. All right, Bucks wide receivers, we don't know what's going on. Tess Johnson left with the growing injury, Jaylen Millen didn't practice after banging his knee a couple of days ago, and Godwin and Abuka were given a maintenance day, so they were like, nah. It's worth noting Tess Johnson has gotten a lot of buzz of being like the star of camp, you know, when it comes to-- He's the star of groinindex.com right now. Yeah, it does stink that he-- What about me, Jaylen Millen? Yeah. 'Cause 1999, oh, there we are, yeah. Oh, that's a Ted Hears reference. Yeah, that is a Ted Hears reference. Now this is the Fred Durst. The Fred Durst. The Fred Durst. Ridiculous. Travis H.N. Come on. He'll get it. He'll get an opportunity with Tess Andrew. It's taken most of the early down reps at training camp, Alvin Camera getting third down reps, Ro. Yeah, I mean, we say it all the time, targets towards more than a rushing attempt for fantasy football. If you look at-- And, damn, that's for-- H.N. is much better at receiving than he is at running. When you look at where-- But Camera is much better at receiving than H.N. It's the problem. That is a problem. That's what I've said since they signed, was originally when it was signed, it was like, oh, Camera's not going to be on the team. He's clearly not only going to be on the team, he's going to be part of this backfield. And I think right now, EDP says that Travis ETN is like just-- he is guaranteed to be a three-down workhorse back. I don't think that's happening. It did name. We're still trying to figure it out. ETN, we're trying-- We're trying to tune your-- I don't know. We're trying our best, everyone. We're going to find out real soon. We have-- you know, it's August. So you got people coming back to football and they-- They might not have any idea, but-- We petition him. I know. We need to talk to that. Pat Bryant in line for a bigger slice of the pie. And Denver, which would be good, because Denver, they need something different on the offensive side of the ball. I mean, they were one of the teams. Like for me, Denver is the team that jumps out as a potential 13 plus touchdown jump. I mean, Denver only had 45 touchdowns last year. It was middle of the pack. You know, Bryan being the wide receiver three doesn't make me think there's going to be any regular fantasy value, but-- No, but it's great for Bonin. I mean, if he establishes himself as the wide receiver three in camp, and it's like not just this committee because right now I'm projecting the third to be a committee. You're going to have Mims involved. You're going to have Troy Franklin involved. You're going to have Pat Bryant maybe leading the three. But if he fully establishes himself as the third, do you think there's a chance as a young player, he can usurp Portland Sutton this year and become the wide receiver two for the offense? Like is that in the range of realistic outcomes? I would say that's not impossible, but this is more of a-- but you wouldn't be surprised. I actually would. I would be surprised what I would not be surprised of is if heading into next year, they are like, we're going to move on from Sutton. And it's going to be Jalen Waddle and Pat Bryant. Yeah, yeah, I think that that whole offense is going to be very, very interesting to watch this year with Waddle's addition with the ensemble of running backs. Like seems like Dobbins is the guy. Oh, yeah, yeah. But then it seems like Harvey might get third down. And Jonah Coleman is just around. Yeah, and Laughlin is just around. And a last piece of news real quick. Yeah, because this is just this is great. It's fun. Tank Dell. Yeah, the Houston Texans. Yeah, is practicing with pads. Yeah, like in year this is this is awesome. We haven't seen him in like over a calendar year since the yeah, it's been basically two years, horrific injury two seasons ago. He missed all of last year. Was that they just correct me because it's a long time ago. Yeah, that injury was that on the block? Yes, he was the goal line line, goal line block. Yeah, because or was that a previous other injury? No, no, no, I'm pretty I don't think it was on the same one. I thought I was on a catch. I thought I was on a catch on the back of the in zone. Yeah, I thought I thought it was a touchdown. Because he was so long ago. Yeah, because the year before I had traded for him. And he was left in on a blocking down, went in and then was knocked out for the rest of the year. And that was I forget that I mean, he's had injury issues throughout his career. But when he's been on the field, he's been awesome. It's really tough for and Stroud was much better with him. Yeah, a guy that's 165 pounds. I mean, we gave him guff when he was in line block. Like what is he going to do as a blocker? He's not really changing things. Yeah, so he broke his fibula on that block in 2023. Miss five games into his season. And then the dislocated kneecap is the full season. So there you go. But he's back. If, I mean, if the NFL and the Texans are better if Tank Tells pointed at a high level. Yeah, absolutely. We'll take a quick break and then get into the countdown. Titans. All right, guys, we are jumping into our Titan rankings. Count down the top 10, looking at positives, negatives of these players. Obviously the Titan position is what's a polarizing spot. I mean, you have these high performers, difference makers at a onesie position. If you have one of those top guys and somebody else is out there streaming the position, it can be a huge advantage on a weekend, week out basis. Problem is identifying the sleeper ones that can perform out of nowhere and making sure that you're draft, if you're going to spend high draft capital, that guy is then every week start. So we'll also look at the beginning schedules for these guys a little bit. So let's start counting it down. Number 10, number 10, Travis Kelsey, going on 37 years old. I have him ranked the lowest I've talked about here recently. I'm pretty out on Kelsey is just not one thing I wanted to do. And maybe Kyle while we're talking about Kelsey briefly, final seasons for some of the greats. I'm just kind of curious where Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Jason Whitten, you know, Jimmy Graham, like most of those guys for my recollection, like I remember Jimmy Graham being pretty irrelevant at the end. Yeah. I mean, he had the, he came back and had a bunch of touchdowns, right? In one of those. Well, he was just saying he had the patella tendon, tendon tear. That was a different one. Yes. But look, it is, you know, whether you believe he can contribute this year or not, he'll get his final year, final two years. He was 37 and 38 years old. He got 30 passes each year. They were basically irrelevant years. His last good season, 36 years old, 53 for 548 and seven. We know that your trajectory right now on Kelsey is, it's going down. It's just a matter of how low does it go. He tends to be out there. But if he gives you, if he gives you six seven points of game, you're not going to be happy. No, no, you won't. The thing is, is right now you've got a tight end who last year had over a hundred targets. You've got an offense that I think should be better than last year, not necessarily an old school great Kansas City offense, but adding Kenneth Walker, I think really does help the offense in general. If you have someone that's going to catch 80 passes, they're not going to be bad for where he's being drafted, but the upside is gone. You're not having a player who's making a difference at the position. You're just simply trying to say, I think when you draft Kelsey, you're taking your, the approach of I punted the position, but I don't want to stream. And I'm just going to try to be okay with whatever mediocrity he provides. And maybe that's the wrong, maybe that's the lazy way and streaming like the question should be asked here, would it be more valuable? Will you score more fantasy points if you're streaming off the waiver? Why are this season? Or if you just play Travis Kelsey every game? I think, I think once we established matchups about halfway through the year, you can stream it better than Kelsey personally, but I think that's up for debate fair. I mean, it's fairly up for debate. I think you're going to find yourself thinking, this is where I think you're going to end up, you're going to think you can start him every week because of the name because you draft the Travis Kelsey and I think you're going to not know when to pull the trigger on changing that out. Now, you're point about the offense being better. I think that's well within the round. I mean, the giant scored seven more touchdowns than the chiefs did last year. The Pittsburgh Steelers, did you like that offense? No. Seven more touchdowns than the Kansas City Chiefs last year. Patrick Mahomes is coming off a serious injury. The identity of this team is going to be the running game. Rashi Rice is coming off a serious injury and I'm not so certain that this offense is going to be significantly better. I think their defense is outstanding. They spent all of their draft capital and trades on making that defense top in the league. I'm not sure you're going to have it opened up enough for you to be happy because all of his targets now are close to the line of scrimmage. That's why I'm still okay with Kelsey as if I'm as the tight end punt of I feel pretty confident that Kelsey will he will finish in the top 10. That's not always great for your fantasy team or making a difference. But they he's going to be the number two target. He will have 100 targets again if he plays in all 17 games and he'll he'll give you roughly nine points a week. You think there's a number two target because I think that they're going to have to make a transition at some point in time. But to who? Yeah, I mean whether I'm Cyrus Allen or Xavier Worthy can step up. I don't know. I think tight end snaps may come down. I think you're going to man and shame a little possible. Yeah. I will say that older players, you know, we've seen this with Keenan Allen recently, like sometimes they get off to a decent start to the year. The first month of the schedule is, you know, their favorite. in all four games. First weeks a little hard at home against Denver, but then Indianapolis, Miami, Las Vegas, those are great matchups. And then they go on their by week. So maybe you're right. The second half of the year, you stream, you grab Kelsey, plan for a month and then start knowing what the chats are. And shout out to Tony guns. Also at 37 years old, had 121 targets 83 for a 59. I think I think Kelsey. That seems it right in the range. Yeah, it's possible. That's the upper range. Number nine. It's Kyle pets coming in at our consensus. Number nine, Jason, and I have mid eight. This is the man of what do you possibly do with this? What do you do with Kyle pets? I mean, Kyle pets is going to be on the field for 90% of snaps. Kyle pets is the second best pass catcher on the team. And Kyle pets is 25 years old. I don't know where the confidence is in two up, but I think it's higher than Pinnix. I don't know if it's higher than where you thought cousins was last year. It's probably pretty neutral, maybe a little lower. I just, I find myself in a tough spot like all of us forever. And we will forever be, I think, with Kyle pets here. I mean, he was a monster over the final six weeks. It's been brought up ad nauseam that Drake London wasn't there. Yeah. I mean, obviously you do have that built in upside. They said he looks like he's running better than he's ever. I've seen that a lot that his this offseason. He looks athletically like kind of the player they draft has been a problem. You know, like we said, like for years, when you're watching Kyle pets where the rookie year that the touchdowns were disappointed, but to have over a thousand year, a thousand yards as a rookie at the tight end position is that's very impressive. And then kind of since then, we've been watching him saying, this doesn't look like, that doesn't look like the same player. So after maybe he just had maybe had long entries that just were they wouldn't clear up. Maybe they're cleared up, but he is they paid him a lot. I'm not drafting him. I'm not either I, but I think it's worth noting that he does have built an upside of it should Drake London get entered. We saw him truly dominate when he became the de facto one. So we know he can do it. And so there is that kind of built in that's not built in with everyone else like like right after him is going Sam LaPorta. If if James and Williams goes down, we've seen the splits. LaPorta is the same with and without James and Williams. However, the guys around him like LaPorta, I better offense more expected touchdowns, Tucker Kraft, you know, when we've seen him much higher upside, Harold Fanon. I'm going to say that I'm in on copets. Yeah. I mean, they just paid him a ton of money. You need to stick around. No, I don't need to. In fact, hold on. No, no, no, no, no. Put the camera on Jason. Oh, what? Put the can. I'm in on Kyle pit. No, that's me. I'm saying it. I just I don't want the camera. Listen, I'm in on Kyle pit heads, given us success at the tight end position. No, I'm in. I'm going to I'm going to wipe the slate clean each and every year. And I'm looking at the contract, the roster, the offense, Kyle pit is going to be a focal point. Your six break out. It's happened before the title. The quote I do. Wait, is this your six? Wow. Crazy. Um, okay. So let me ask you this because the next Titan we're talking about here is Sam LaPorta. Wait for the number eight. I was I was putting it up. That's pretty good. You can't give the name. No, wait. It's the name for the number before the night, but it's fine. They're going right next to each other in drafts. So right now, the what I'm seeing 7 0 4 7 0 6, they're they're basically you're picking one of these two players. So you are picking Kyle pit. Yes, because you are in on so you will take him over LaPorta. Okay. I just wanted that established. Yeah, I will. I think that Kyle Pets is going to be a focal point of the offense on a regular basis. So I'm not I'm not proud of it. I'm not I wouldn't tell anybody else. We have a ranked identical. We both have them as our Titan eight. Obviously last year, he was the Titan two. That's a little bit here. Here's a real question for you. Okay. If you think, I mean, are you are you just drafting, crafting kettle automatically, assuming they'll be fine ahead of Kyle Pets? I am not I believe Mike. I would yes. So you know, are you drafting fan and automatically ahead of Pets? Probably. Yes. I if if the cost was the same, I would much rather have fan and all right. Sam LaPorta is who we're talking about now. Nobody knows this man better than Jason Moore. He's been on his team in a bunch of mocks in a row. I got him a nine, Mike at eight, Jason at seven. I mean, Sam LaPorta, he's a he's a great Titan. He's going to be out there every time for the most part there. The team has an incredible schedule. They're favorite in 14 of the first 15 games. They also have a ton of weapons. Jumeric Gibbs. I'm on our same brown. Jameson Williams. There will be I think games are going to end up with a short end of the stick. He can make big plays. He has a chance of double digit touchdowns. But we have seen, you know, I mean, LaPorta is a pretty safe pick, I think. Yeah. I mean, that's what it is. I don't see LaPorta like he can't differentiate himself from the other target monsters at the position. He's never going to have a 140 targets the way that a McBride or Bowers or some of these second year tight ends might get to. But the touchdown upside is clearly there. He's already had double digit touchdowns in his career as a rookie. He's on a team that is expected to score a ton of points. And I think this is just a player where you're going to have consistency. When he doesn't score a touchdown, it's not like he just disappears. But you're going to have a lot of touchdowns. And if you end up with, let's say nine touchdowns this season, very reasonable for him. That means there's, I mean, when you're tight in scores of touchdown every other game at least that week, you have a good chance of winning. And so I would rather have a guy who can get in the end zone like I think LaPorta has way more touchdown opportunities than pits. Pits might have more targets, but I'll take the touchdowns at the tight end position. My personal last year in his nine games, you know, LaPorta had four of them were over 10 points. It like, yeah, I would rather, I would rather hitch my way into LaPorta. All right. Number seven. Tucker Kraft comes in at number seven. I got him at five. So that's it. I thought this was only Mike's dude. No, I have him ranked at five. All right. Team Tucker, which means he is a buff fan and in my rankings and below bars and bright leveling and warrant right now. I do think he'll be there from week one. I think that look, I think their offense is interesting. Top the bottom. I think you have players that were excited about Christian Watson. Yeah. You know, Jayden Reed getting some talk about some two wide receiver sets, all the, all the feedback. I know we're bitter towards Matthew Golden, but all the camp talk has been very positive around Matthew Golden. It's an interesting offense, but Kraft was kind of what made it go last year. And I do think he's going to be back and healthy. He was the tight end to and fantasy points per game. So I don't think ranking him at five is insane. And this is not a one hit wonder either. You have the breakout from last season. That was it, you know, it was a handful of games where he was upper echelon top tier. But you go back a season. This was the tight end nine with eight point one points for game the year before. They already knew what they had in Tucker Kraft and just built him into the offense a little bit more. He's a complete bully and man-to-man coverage. You know, tour the ACL. That's the the whole storyline. But I think I think he's going to be good. They're favorite in their first six games of the year. It's a nice slate for him to come out and get acclimated. I'm pretty in on Tucker Kraft. Consensus wise, we have him at seven. Jason, you're the most most bearish. Yeah. So to speak to that, it's really injury and ADP. So he's coming off of an injury where the expectation early in the off season was he'll start the season on the pop. Then as time went on, it got more and more positive. We've seen him at camp now. He's looking great. If he's running straight, he looks amazing. He's running straight. He's looking great. He, you know, he should be there for week one at Tucker Kraft. Straight is enough. Yeah, just that's all I need. Pull people over. Hey, in line run a seam route. Yeah, and then run. In line, feeling fine. Well, the nice thing is even even with that you've got you, you have a lot of bars for TK. You have a lot of plays that the Packers set up like play action where they kind of leak Kraft out. You don't have to be cutting these amazing routes to catch the little dump off in the flat and then just go mow guys down. It's it's almost unfair to talk about his points per game because his last game you got injured and wasn't really involved. He was 14 points per game in the game, you know, full games that he started on pace for 1139 yards. So I don't blame either of you guys for just taking the shot. The swing of saying if he is healthy, he is going to he was truly dominating. However, for me, like he's going right next to Harold Fanon. If I wanted to take a tight end, he's healthy and and looked great and scored more fantasy points last year, but he's also going next to other guys at other positions like Jordan Tyson than the guy who played in eight games. Availability is the is the best ability. Gosh, but Jordan Tyson is right next to him. Okay. Whatever. People do not like that. Is it? Do you think score more than tanked out, too? Do you think if Tucker Kraft plays 17 games that he definitely scores more points than Harold Fanon? If Tucker Kraft plays a full season, yes, he will score more points than Harold Fanon. Yeah, the difference in that offense is just going to be pretty large. I mean, Fanon's going to be great, but you did add a couple more weapons in that offense in our quarterback. You know, that's the differential to me. The quarterbacks, the offensive system. I still love fan. And that's why he comes in at number six. Harold Fanon, 22 years young. And the tight in five last year in Cleveland, wish shared time with the joke who with no wide receivers with no quarterback. This is only one of two rookie tight ends to go 70 for 706. See, he is an electric player. Harold Fanon is awesome. And if they were smart, which it seems like Monkins going to do, he's going to use Fanon a ton. So if you want to hedge against injury, these guys are back to back in my rankings. I don't blame you at all. If you have a, you know, this is where, um, this is where I think for you where you have like a tier of superstars, right? So you've got McBride Bowers, you've got Warren and Loveland. Yes. And that's your core. That is my core for. And I can kind of see that where it's like, then you can make some really different decisions with like Fanon and Kraft. Kettle, if he's healthy to start the year, um, you can throw a reporter or pits into that group. It, it becomes more muddy. It becomes more plant your flag on the offense that you like a little bit. You know, you talked about a reason to like La Porto over pits. Is they're going to score a lot more touchdowns and Detroit than they will in Atlanta? You can make that, that's part of the craft call over Fanon, I think, is that I think Green Bay is going to be a great offense on a great, you know, great team. I mean, Cleveland is going to be better than people expect, but offensively not a top, you know, 20 team. None of us picked them to be the team to score 13 more touchdowns. I didn't think about it. I mean, they improved their offensive line in the draft. Um, they've got, you know, an offensive minded head coach now and some good rookie. Yeah, I think that they could be a surprisingly, you know, much better offense. To me, Fanon is the one player. I am very fearful of getting wrong because I'm pretty much out on sixth round tight ends. So like if, and that's what it is for me because I don't have craft in Fanon in the tier of the elites. I don't think they are, do I think they're better than the other tight ends? I'm going to get later. Absolutely. But I think it's a point, a game. I think it's irrelevant for winning and losing in fantasy. This was one of my 10 things to remember is that the difference between the Titan two last year and the Titan 12 was pretty meaningless last year. And so if you're not one of the elites, I would rather have a fifth round, a sixth round, a seventh round pick of the running backs and wide receivers there. Take the shot of those guys. But Fanon, what he did in college was so productive and then it's come in a rookie year and be that productive is like, oh, maybe he is just that dude. But on the offense, can he finish top three? No, no, I don't think so. No, and I'm my, the argument against Fanon is just the Cleveland Browns. Like I'm with you guys of he is an awesome player. But looking at the competition for Harold Fanon last year was Jerry Judy. I know he had to, you know, he had to overtake David Nejoku. But it's like Judy had a 20% target share. The next highest wide receiver target share would have been Cedric Tillman or I'm sorry. Isaiah Bond at 8% and then Tillman, Nejoku's at 9%. So it's like these a first round wide receiver, a second round wide receiver. Let me give you the counter argument there. The county argument is the Cardinals. Okay. The Cardinals have Michael Wilson, Marvin Harrison, Jr. as part of that offense. But Tramick Bright is the bona fide number one guaranteed target in that offense. Yes. I wonder if, because when I see Fanon, the part I'm worried about getting wrong is that this guy could lead the league in receptions that tied in. That's my worry is, not from a quantity. I mean, he had 107 targets last year as a rookie. That's the part I'm worried about getting wrong is that he is the PPR winner of the year. It's actually better than the 107 targets. If you look at when Shadour took over in week 12 and you take out the injury game at the very end of the season, he was on pace for 142 targets with Shadour. So, and to McBride, like those guys don't take away from me, Bride, leading the league in receptions that tied in. Yeah. So rookies are not going to be made. It's maybe these are, but these are unknowns where it's like Marvin, Michael Wilson, there's some unknown about them of where they could end up this year. But we have no idea how conception and Boston are going to factor into taking away from the target. If those, is there any chance he has fewer than 100 targets on this offense? So I don't think so. I don't think so. Okay. So at least that's built in as a floor for Harold Fanon, I think. Yeah. I mean, I love Harold Fanon. When I say I'm not drafting him, it's really just draft price. If he was in the ninth round and I'm giving up a mediocre sixth, I believe, right now. Okay. Yeah. That'll be a tough decision, I think, for where people want to tear him mentally because of the Brown situation. And I'm curious. I'm going to have Kyle pull some data on top three tight ends over the last decade or so. And how many of them are on sub 500 teams? Because I'm very curious about that. So I'll give you that information shortly. Number five. I could tell you, last year, he was on a sub 500 team in Tremac, right? You're talking about the number one time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. George Kittle. Come on, George. Comes in at five. We all got him right there. Mike at five. We're at six. This one's been evolving. It's going to continue to evolve over the course of this month. Major injury, not a spring chick and George Kittle, almost 33 years old. Also not as old as Travis Kelsey by any stretch. And you know, the touchdowns with Brock Party have been there. That was an early career situation with Kittle where he's going to catch a bunch of passes. He can make a big play. But he's probably getting it up with five or six touchdowns. He's got higher upside now in this offense. And for goodness sakes, they don't have any, they don't have any wide receivers that are healthy. No, George Kittle is the entire, the entirety of the bet for George Kittle is his health. And so it's like there is no, there's no doubts of of how dominant George Kittle can be for for the NFL for fantasy football. You know, his, his rookie year wasn't great. Five point seven points per game. But since then, his lowest is 10.7. That's huge. Like he's, he's a double digit point machine at the tight end position. And I, and things like the ceiling that the connection he has with Brock Party, it raises the stakes even more in, in my opinion. So everything is just, do you think George could be healthy? We have him at five, which is way above market. And like my bet is a season long bet. It, I think it starts slower for George Kittle. But over the course of the season, I think he returns to form and becomes the true dominator that that that we have seen every year. And it's tight end 10. So if, if you want to protect yourself, you know, if you want to take George Kittle and then Dallas, and then Dallas Goddard or one of the, you're like likely or or or or or or even Travis Kelsey, because Kelsey will give you a floor. And that's a draft strategy that is plausible taking to Kittle in the ninth or 10th round and then come back and taking Travis Kelsey. It's, I think it's an interesting strategy for this year. The splits with Brock Party over four years. If you spread them out over a season, it would be 81 catches on 106 targets for 1145 yards and 11 touchdowns. That has been, you know, that's much better than his splits with a different quarterback in San Francisco. Now, Mike, you did read the tea leaves on CMC's health last year. Yeah. Would you mind letting us know the exact. It's pretty important for George. I actually would mind. Oh, yeah. I thought we were going to get the edge. I know. I am, I am much more worried about the injury. My, my ranking says how I get your ranking says you believe he's going to be there for for 17 pretty darn healthy games. I do think second half of the year, he might be good. He's a human. And while he's unbelievable, he's 33 years and he's a dog. He's 33 years. The man. Yeah. He's not a human. There's a man old for a football player coming off of a very difficult injury. And I know it was a better version. Like the, you know, we keep hearing like, Oh, it's the Achilles tour at the right spot. It's like, well, there's no good spot for the Achilles to tear. There's worse spots. There are worse spots. But he's still tore his Achilles and is coming back. The last video that I saw them. He's out on the sideline. He's, he's working. But he looks to me like he's so ways away. So I'm, I'm a little bit more skeptical that you will like holding on to him for the first half of the year. All right. We'll take a break and come back with our top four and some sleeper picks. All right. I do have that information for you before we move on to our top four, which we'll, we'll probably get through them pretty quick. You guys know the names. Top three tight ends over the last five years, six of 15 or sub 500 teams. So it does lower your odds. Certainly, you want to be around the end zone, right? Just, I was curious about that. You know, bowers, the McBride twice. Some of that's tough because like Travis Kelsey is every year. You know, pretty much over the last decade been in the top three and he's always going to be on a winning team prior to this year. Um, I think it's like the, you're either a dominant player at the tight end position, which there's very few of those if you're talking guys who are getting it done in the passing game. The guys who can rise are, that's the offense is going to carry him. Yep, makes sense. Number four, Tyler Warren comes in at number four. Jason just talked extensively about Tyler Warren on our fire and ice episode. But the TLDR of that is great. It was a great rookie season. When Daniel Jones was healthy, focal point of the offense. You lose Michael Pittman, beneficiary of those low, you know, the intermediate targets that Pittman was great at. And, you know, Alex Pierce, Josh Downs on the outside, you know, Downs is on proven out there. They want to try him out, give him more opportunities. Pierce got paid all that money, but he's been a deep threat most of his career. Warren's going to soak up the middle of the field, benefit from Jonathan Taylor pulling up defenses. So I think we're all very comfortable with Tyler Warren. Jason's got him at three. Mike and I have four. That's the only difference. Jason has them ahead of Loveland and we have him behind, meaning number three. Number three, Mr. Loveland, it is Mr. Loveland. 22 years old. Mike and I have him at three days in and four, finished 11 last year, came on, like gangbusters at the end of the season. A chess piece for Ben Johnson in line, 56% of the time, but then in the slot, 22% of the time out wide, completely 18% of the time. You know, the debates around burden, or doing say, how valuable are they? We know Loveland is going to be a focal point. Yeah, but the quote that we have gotten recently, and I don't, I don't have this. It's from an ESPN article. Okay. From ESPN was that Loveland is the son of the bear's solar system of receivers. And that feels like kind of how we anticipate this going. We have the fight of I love Rome. You love burden. And I've certainly warmed more and more on burden. I still don't like his draft price, but that's all right. The universally come to the same agreement that is the best weapon on this team. And I think the, I personally have it now as the target leader for this team is Colson Loveland. The issue is that there are other really good targets. So if, if Caleb is throwing for sub 4,000 yards, and you have three really good options is the consistency going to be there for Loveland. If, oh, Luther burden went off for these four games and, and Rome went off for these three games or whatever, will we be disappointed in the price of Loveland because of those weapons. That's my only concern because I think the tape showed and the playoff showed that he can be a dominant top end force. I think the interesting thing is looking at the final three weeks of the year in the playoffs when he was really a part of the offense seeing that playoff target share 28% in an offense that had DJ more at 17% at the time. I feel like there'll be plenty of weekly upside combined with, I think, a good floor for Colson Loveland. That's why I have him ahead of war and I just like that offensive system better. Yeah, I would expect both are good. I would expect the Bears just to outscore the Colts. I mean, when we were preparing for the show and going through our UDK stats and we were looking because free rankings kind of disagreed with the UDK rankings because one is done by stat projections, one is just done by linear rank. And we took a look at these two guys, Loveland and Warren. I don't even know if you know this Andy because it was Mike and I looking at it. I probably don't then we were almost identical. I mean, the points between Loveland and Warren for all three of us are like flip a coin as far as total fantasy value. I do think it's a one round difference. Yeah, I mean, that's why I like Warren more. It's cheaper and I think his floor might be higher. But when we're trying to win as championship, the ceiling is higher on 100% like if both of these guys go off this year, Loveland will be the winner. I think about it the exact same way. I think Warren is probably a safer pick for like this is going to be a top five tight end. It's just if if Loveland hits the way that the all the chatter is from this from training camp of the off season. He was the number 10 overall pick. You know we have the the anecdotes of phones were ringing off the hook during the NFL draft. Coast of Loveland gets drafted by the Bears, which was a little bit of a surprise per the mock drafters and then all of a sudden the phone stop ringing because people were trying to move up to go get Loveland. He is I think he will be the the focal part of the Bears offense and then the ceiling is more aesthetically gifted player than Warren is the warrants very good. It's just Loveland is just much more of them. If you want to break away touchdown, that's not going to be Warren. Warren is going to break some tackles and get you 20 yards on a cool catch. Loveland is going to take it to the house behind the back. The chance of Loveland usurping Brock Bowers as the number one tight end at the end of this season to me is much higher than Warren. Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it. Number two. No, no more. Let's go to the next one. Tramie bride. Did you if you want to I can talk Loveland all day. I was just going to bring up the negative quote of the fact that he's been seen as a dynamic pass catcher, but he is rapidly improving as a blocker. Is that scary fantasy? No, because you know who is a great blocker. George Kittle. I think there is some value to we love our our tight ends that aren't you know the Jimmy grams. They don't actually play the tight end position they play wide receiver, but there is definitely value of the I'm in line. I'm looking like I'm going to block, but I'm just a chip and then I leak out for the play action and they hit a big play. Number two, you sound like strong bad driven on emails. Oh. Oh, one of them. Oh started. Hey, Jamie bride. Comes in at number two. Is that disrespectful? This was the first tight end in history to have 100 plus catches and back to back seasons. He has Jacobi brisette. Presh off of that sweet 15 million dollar check. They're writing him completely dominant last year with brisette. Number one overall fantasy tight end and yet he comes in at two at our consensus rankings. That is not an insult to Tremac bride. That is simply a belief in Brock Bauer's Tremac bride. They're the only negative thing you could possibly say about his outlook is that it is somewhat probable that during the fantasy playoffs, he has a third round rookie quarter backsling in the ball. That's the only fear I have. I mean, Tremac bride is the leader of this offense. You know, the questions of will is Marv good did the Michael Wilson. All that's irrelevant. Those guys are so far behind in the pecking order of McBride. The offense runs through him. He will be awesome again. Much better play collar. You know, he's talking about the. Yeah, you know, the situation for Arizona. I would trust the floor to do more with his best player Arizona had a ton of yards last year because the defense was bad and the defense is just as bad this year. They didn't score a lot of points when you when you look at like total team scoring when we were, you know, looking at who's going to take that jump. They have room to really grow and you add love, you know, in the backfield. Yeah, is that a positive or negative. They had I think having a better offense is always just good. They just they had nothing at the running back position last year. That's why they their pass rate was so extremely high and like there were running so many plays. We brought up the stat earlier of like he essentially ran multiple games. Multiple games worth more of snaps. Kyle correct me from wrong. I think the most snaps or most routes run for a tight end ever in the history of the NFL is just those things. Jacobi versus was on pace for six hundred and eighty five pass. Yeah, which is not happening. We just number that has to come down. Number one. It is rock. Bowers coming in at number one. The most talented tight end up there in football with the fact that he's the clear number one target with Clint kubiak who called him a football robot from heaven. What's better. Being the son of the solar system. Well, heaven is much better or a football, but you're a robot, but you're from heaven. You know, heaven is above the sun and the stars. So I mean, it's clearly clearly rock. Bowers is better here. You want you want to know something. Remember we're having the debate about Gandalf versus. Dumbledore Dumbledore. I didn't read. I talked to somebody with knowledge of the Lord of the Rings universe. Oh Gandalf is part angel. I unaware of this is what they told me. If I'm quoting it, they said from I think I'll bear on the phone. The similarity on you know, that book talks about that. I think he's interesting. It was spitballers. We were talking about this on spitballers. But when you said, have they never mind me. I wanted to let you guys know I'd done some research. Yeah, well, that's why we appreciate that. You know, we're looking at these top four elite tight ends. And you know, my argument for Warren is that downs and Alec Pierce are not as good. as the weapons there, you know, all of these other three guys have at least capable receivers on the roster who might break out, Marv might break out, Rome might break out, burden might break out, Alec Pierce might break out, they ain't none here brother, no one on the braiders. They gave Naylor a bunch of money, Naylor has the same risk that McBride has though that you mentioned. Well, it's which is that it's not a third round. No, not a third round. It's the first overall pick, but the same risk of quarterback changes at the back half of the year. You would assume it will happen. It's very rare in this day and age for the number one overall pick to not get in. But that is enough of a difference to me, Carson back versus Mendoza to where, you know, and, you know, Clint Kubiak. He was, La Flora might be a good, you know, they're both offensive minded head coaches, but Kubiak was the prize of this offseason. What's crazy is that this, you know, may seem really obvious to be like, okay, one, two, as McBride and Bowers in some order, the truth is you're going to put them in the order that you, you believe, but they're going directly back to back and drafts. So this is a, like you do have to just pull the trigger on one. Like if you're, if you're going to be there at 205 or 203 or whatever, wherever you're at, you're sacrificing obviously a very high quality wide receiver running back. And you have to make the call here and you don't want to get it wrong because you're investing so much into a fantasy tight end. So is it, is it possible to get this pick wrong? Really? No, I mean, injury will get it wrong with, oh, you're saying between the two. I think you're going to be, can you really get that wrong? So I think you could get it wrong where you will have regrets. And the only way that you get that wrong outside of injury on the regret front is that what Bowers does is truly break, you know, the position. I think that is in the range of outcomes this year. Right. That's in the range of outcomes. That's the funny part. Yeah, yeah. It's like he did it. What did what it mean? Right. Score last year on. Woses. Oh, he was 15. He was on, he was like 15 points or five points better than the tight end, too. Yeah. So that, that's the part where it's hard for me to be like, you know, the, the Raiders were what? Dead last in the NFL and touchdown scored. Correct. And so now you're bringing in Kirk Cousins. I don't, I don't, that's the part where I have more confidence in the, in the connection, but I mean, like, I'm going to, I'm going to switch these two. You're moving. I'm sure they're right. I'm sure they're basically, yeah, there's three points apart in my rankings, but out of respect for that connection already built, I'm going to make that tweak. Okay. So I, I mean, I will say right now, McBride is going ahead in ADP by exactly one pick. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's why Andy's doing right here. He's saying if I'm on the clock, I'm taking, I'm going to take McBride and I look at the end of the year. I think the Cardinal score more touchdowns than the Raiders do. So I mean, I think that's going to end out repeating 11 touchdowns. Is it hard? Yeah. Is he going to do it? Probably. He'll probably do it. Bowers might do it too. These guys going to, I mean, it's going to be a narrow, very close situation. But it's, it's tough. I know you are the most like into Brock Bowers you've ever been, you know, in terms of like looking at him as the bona fide number one overall at the position. Yeah. I mean, it's tough. Yeah. They're both great players. I don't, I don't think that there's a bad pick here. And I will say that my strategy for four last year, by the way. My strategy this year is get an elite tight end. And that means only these four. And perhaps even if you want to take the strategy, just like we know Bowers and McBride are going to be dominant, Warren and Loveland are projections. You're hoping. Now they're a little cheaper, but they still cost a lot in drafts. If you wanted to take the strategy of it, it's just Bowers and McBride or else punt. Like I'm, I'm fine with that as well. Bowers and McBride are both dominant around Josh Allen category. I mean, could, yeah, want this be your decision between if you're going to go onesie, you go Josh Allen or you go Bowers, McBride. Probably. Do that in terms of advantage for your team, Mike. I, I lean the tight end spot of, of getting one of those two guys. It's not a lack of confidence in Josh Allen. It's just a, you know, finding quarterback production is, you've got guys you're likely. It's just easier and, and more predictable on a week to week basis than, you know, streaming a quarterback, if depending on your league and how they handle the waiver wire, but in terms of just the process of identifying the quarterback that should have a good week compared to the tight end, it's, it's easier on the quarterback. Yeah. So I mean, we started this episode talking about Travis Kelsey. He's our 10th ranked tight end. And so if you're going to take one late and one early, the difference between Travis Kelsey is like the tight end 10 versus, you know, Trevor Lawrence right now, ADP was is the quarterback 10 is like is Travis Kelsey does Travis Kelsey have a chance to be another like absolute difference maker of the position? Probably not. Does, does Trevor Lawrence? Sure. Probably does DAC. Does Jackson Dart? Those guys, those are all those guys. Tyler Schuck. Yeah. Bone nicks. Sleeper tight end. You're interested in because this is, you know, we have our top 10 by consensus, but throwing out a sleeper tight end. For me, it's Goddard. I brought him up a couple of times. Whenever A.J. Browner Devante Smith has missed time, he's been a huge beneficiary on the offense. A.J. Brown is gone. He's going to miss some time for the guy lemon has had two hamstring injuries. We don't, right now it looks like Don Tavy and Wix is the second man up, which to me makes Dallas Goddard the wide receiver to Eli Stowers has done nothing. He's, he's been buried on the depth chart so far in, in camp. So I like him to get it together. I agree. Mine is the guy I took in our last mock draft, Dalton Kincaid. The team picked up his fifth year option, whose first round pick. He was literally the best in the entirely get tight end at, sorry, yards per route run. The problem was he wasn't healthy. He only ran 15 rounds. How's he doing right now? Very healthy. There was a, a miniature scare where it was like, oh, he, yeah, he went, yeah, he went down. And so he was interviewed afterwards about like what happened? I was like, was this the knee again? He's like, no, he got, he got it in the family jewels, as he said. Shout out. Yeah. Not enough. But referencing the family jewels, I feel like I haven't heard that since like early Simpsons. But currently very healthy. And obviously having Josh Allen as your quarterback doesn't hurt. And I'm going as I like to do the senator with the tight end position. Oh, Jason, guys, like, if Benson happens, we're the show, we're just, we're going to close it down. Don't worry about it. Good news for a clan. We aren't going nowhere. Just saying. Uh, no, I'm going with, you know, we've talked about a, a, you need a tight end who can become the number two or the number one option. The Miami dolphins, it's gross down there, uh, Andy is a big believer in Malik Willis. I'm more on your side of, I think that he is a, uh, more likely to be a good quarterback than not. Who's the number one option there? I guess it's Malik Washington right now, just de facto. Greg Dolsich is there his, you know, the, the nerd stats, the yards per route run pretty good. 2.38, not a huge sample size for him. He's had his moments as an NFL moments and he has the, uh, he has the athletic profile that we want. If, when you're, when you're just taking a random shot at the tight end position, athleticism matters. This isn't like, you know, like guys that running back in wide receiver, they can be slower. It's just, it can happen by, but an athletic tight end, they are more likely to break through. He could end up as the number one target for this offense. That doesn't mean I'm saying top five or anything, but it's a player who is right now undrafted that I think he, like he could be a sneaky top 12 guy at the end of the year. There's always, there's always nasty tight ends that, that sneak in there. Yeah. And this is also something where, look, if you might not get drafted, you probably won't get drafted in your league. But when you're looking at what happens and you get a sign in week one or two, yeah, week one, eight targets show up, right. And even if he doesn't catch them all or doesn't get in the end zone, look for, I love looking for tight ends through the target lens when you're looking at the free agency. Yeah. See who's getting action. Fanon was there last year on the waiver wire. This year. I mean, Isaiah likely might be that chick might be there or some, but yeah, there's a lot of options. All right, that'll do it for today's episode mock draft episode tomorrow. And then we'll resume rankings episodes as well. Footclang giveaway.com for that signed beach on Robinson, Jersey. If you want to check that out in the ultimate draft kit is ultimate draft kit.com. Thank you for tuning in, Footclang. Thank you for coming along for the ride. It's going to be a fun August because Carson Beck is starting tomorrow, guys. Oh boy. Here we go. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on JoinTheFoot.com. And follow us on Twitter at the FF Ballers.