Speaker 1Welcome to the fantasy footballers podcast with your host Andy Holloway, Jason Moore and Mike Wright.
Speaker 2Welcome in. Not yet not yet not yet Wednesday August 5th the fantasy football the the the what tight end ranking show NFL news talking improved offenses talking fantasy insights to help you on draft day that's the goal each and every day help you prepare for your draft and for the season Jason has been smirking.
Speaker 3for a minute maybe longer are you in a good mood I'm in a great mood we golfed this morning that put you in a good mood no sir no sir I got a new high score high score yes which is great plus 27 through nine no no that's real that is real that is absolutely real oh you're saying it out loud no it's not real I am not counting a mulligan so technically it would be 28 but I'm gonna give myself plus 30
Speaker 230 ish yeah the falcon was out there with a camera today is that sure there's got some bad
Speaker 3shots in there I'm sure he does well he was following you so does he have any good ones of Andy yeah for sure no but I'm I'm fine man I I will say this when I started golfing and I was really really bad which I have stayed at least consistent um I I was breaking clubs I was that
Speaker 2guy that guy on the course been a mental yeah change this is this has been something where
Speaker 3golf's hard you you suck yeah the tumor is not if you don't want to be out here yeah exactly the tumor is unoperable just deal with it okay so sad okay there's nothing you can do so just like get over it good good point andy um yeah but no i'm i'm in a good mood i'm i'm really really excited about football i'm really excited about august being here get the golf off the back screen yeah um and and and me being a horrifically bad golfer will not get in my way
Speaker 2there's there's a decent chance that we do some work on that you know we get yeah yeah i think we're gonna genuinely get some lessons you know get better um but this is not a golf show it sometimes feels like it we have a giveaway a big giveaway that's cool what are we giving away and we are giving away a signed bijan robinson jersey in honor of bijan bijan robinson's new contract no we're giving away an autograph bijan jersey free to enter foot clan giveaway.com if you're interested in that we like giving away some stuff in august it's always fun so we're going to start with that doesn't mean it'll be the only giveaway in august but uh we'll start with a signed bijan robinson jersey foot clan giveaway.com for that you guys know the udk it's available right now at ultimate draft kit.com if you want to prepare for your draft in the best way you can and we'll see you next time possible way check that out and um yeah i'm excited too jay it's time to get into a quick question of the day comes in from billy which bottom 10 offense from 2025 do you believe will outperform their touchdown total by 13 plus and the reason uh he's asking 13 plus is because last year mike on your on the tips and tricks show you talked about anticipating offensive systems and they're you know basically them improving because over the last decade at least three teams uh mind you it was six last year at least three teams every year jump 13 plus total touchdowns yep and figuring out who it is can really really help you yeah i mean because we've said this about rookies going to bad destinations it's not always bad you think it's bad but things change in the nfl so quickly just for context last year's touchdown leaders the rams new england seattle buffalo detroit the basement was new orleans new york the jets that is tennessee cleveland and las vegas those were and you're talking the rams just for just for like to see the difference the rams scored 65 total touchdowns the raiders scored 25 total touchdowns oh man so uh but it happens every year um most of the time it's more than three six teams last year the rams jumped more than 13 touchdowns new england jumped more than 13 jacksonville dallas new york and indianapolis so what's the team for this year
Speaker 4mike why don't you start uh the the amount of chips that i have been pushing into the table on the new orleans saints is uh we are we're not approaching inappropriates now you're almost all in we're we are inappropriate and now we're borderline just terrifying of how much i believe in in what they are about to do uh so i i think with with shuck and co uh down there in new england more you know calling calling the plays getting everything going for the offense i think that they are what they are the team to watch to make you know a like a new england style jump
Speaker 2that is i mean i guess one thing i hadn't thought about i didn't realize how low they were last year because shuck did play over a great part of the year he didn't have a lot of passing touchdowns
Speaker 4correct tons of yardage and but a uh like a average or below average touchdown i imagine
Speaker 2kellen moore is not proud of that number that 31 number was nearly the bottom of the nfl and he has a reputation for that number and he's not proud of that number and he's not proud of that number uh a resume that you know he can call plays and get it into the end zone they're definitely a great candidate for that i i'm gonna go with the titans i've been kind of in their corner this offseason not to the i think you believe that the saints can compete in a big way make the playoffs winning the division i don't i don't think the titans can win their division but i think the difference in their offense um could be significant i mean the the giants last year were the teams that jumped up 13 touchdowns just with jackson dart coming in and then adding cam scataboo the difference that you know some pass catchers are going to make in tennessee the fact that they were at the the bottom of the league last year i think that cam ward is going to take a step forward uh i'm pretty excited about carnell tate wandale's there they've got the weapons and they got the play caller brian dable coming in so um i'm gonna go with the titans yeah i think uh play caller makes
Speaker 3a big difference in the league i think cam ward is going to take a step forward uh i'm pretty excited impact that is probably the number one reason for my team they were the bottom of the barrel the the lowest scoring team in the league the raiders last year obviously you had brock bowers injured you had a terrible offensive line and and genuinely i think that the biggest issue with the raiders offense last year was the pete carroll nepotism on the offensive line you know the the the offensive line coach being his son everyone said it was a problem a mistake when they fired their staff and it didn't retain him it was like what's going on here i think clint kubiak coming in bringing in rick dennison a really good offensive line coach going out and getting tyler lindenbaum a great center and then you get brock back now you've got kirk cousins in and you know we don't know what mendoza will do obviously mendoza rookie quarterbacks don't usually have a high touchdown number but when you only scored 25 touchdowns last year like the bar is pretty easy to step over that 13 more touchdown number they could still be in the bottom half of offenses and score 13 more
Speaker 4touchdowns than they did last year rick dennison not being a private investigator i think i've been
Speaker 2i was trying to figure out what that name like he's either a sheriff in a wild west town rick dennison yeah on the case or a detective yeah but you're not talking like current era
Speaker 5this is old he's like of all the places in all the world she had to walk into mine what a dame there's just rick dennison there's just like a card of cigarette smoke floating in the air
Speaker 2um it beige it's a powerful name it is uh all right we will jump into the news
Speaker 1news and notes from around the league
Speaker 2okay is this news uh nfl network's ian rapaport believes to uh will likely stop
Speaker 3week one this is not hold on don't be surprised this is a this is a thought that's a thought that
Speaker 2is and the thought was uh it has a equivocator in it right it's not even a strong thought it's
Speaker 3just like i think maybe right i think i think maybe the tool will start what's the line that
Speaker 4you're bringing up before yeah just the don't be surprised don't be surprised if i get it we we do these things sometimes you're talking and then you're trying to gather your thoughts at the you're thinking sometimes one of those thoughts comes out and you're like oh i gotta i gotta i gotta
Speaker 3soften that one up i believe most people's expectation here is that two is going to start yes two is banged up right now but pennix is even further away from getting on the field and he's better it to it was not good but he was better pennix was so i mean when i watched the film last year i was like i did not remember him being this bad he was very very not good
Speaker 2eight hours ago to a tongue of elo on training camp with Michael Penix quote it's definitely a competition yeah well This is what you'd say if it wasn't one. But no, I noticed that on Sleeper, one of the most added players in Dynasty Leagues was their third string quarterback for the Falcons. All right, Bucs wide receivers, we don't know what's going on. Tez Johnson left with a groin injury. Jalen McMillan didn't practice after banging his knee a couple days ago. And Godwin and Ibuka were given a maintenance day, so they were like, nah.
Speaker 3It's worth noting Tez Johnson has gotten a lot of buzz of being like the star of camp. You know, when it comes to...
Speaker 2He's the star of groinindex.com right now.
Speaker 3Yeah, it does stink that he...
Speaker 5What about me, Jason? Yeah! It's 1999! Oh, there I am!
Speaker 3Oh, that's a Ted Hurst reference.
Speaker 2Yeah, that is a Ted Hurst. Ted Fred Durst. Ridiculous. Travis Achan.
Speaker 3Come on! He'll get an opportunity with Tez Injured.
Speaker 2Has taken most of the early down reps at training camp. Alvin Kamara getting third down reps.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, we say it all the time. Targets are worth more than a rushing attempt for fantasy football.
Speaker 4And Achan's much better at receiving than he is at running.
Speaker 2But Kamara's much better at receiving than Achan. That is a problem.
Speaker 3That is a problem. That's what I've said since they signed. Originally, when it was signed, it was like, oh, Kamara's not going to be on the team. He's clearly not only going to be on the team, he's going to be part of this backfield. And I think right now ADP says that Travis Etienne is like just... He is guaranteed to be a three-down workhorse back. I don't think that's happening.
Speaker 4The name. We're still trying to figure it out. Etienne, Achan, Junior. I don't know, man. We're trying our best, everyone.
Speaker 3We're going to find out real soon. We have, you know, it's August. So you got people coming back to football. And they might not have any idea. Can we petition him? I know. We need to talk. We need to talk to...
Speaker 2Pat Bryant in line for a bigger slice of the pie in Denver. Which would be good because Denver, they need something different on the offensive side of the ball. I mean, they were one of the teams. Like for me, Denver is the team that jumps out as a potential 13-plus touchdown jump. I mean, Denver only had 45 touchdowns last year. It was middle of the pack. You know, Bryant being the wide receiver three doesn't make me think there's going to be any regular fantasy value. No, but it's great for Bo Nims.
Speaker 3I mean, if he establishes himself as the wide receiver three in camp, and it's like not just this committee. Because right now I'm projecting the third to be a committee. You're going to have Mims involved. You're going to have Troy Franklin involved. You're going to have... You're going to have Pat Bryant maybe leading the three. But if he fully establishes himself as the third, do you think there's a chance as a young player he can usurp Portland Sutton this year and become the wide receiver two for the offense? Like is that in the range of realistic outcomes?
Speaker 4I would say that's not impossible, but this is more of a like... But you wouldn't be surprised. I actually would. I would be surprised. What I would not be surprised of is if... Heading into next year, they are like, we're going to move on from Sutton, and it's going to be Jalen Waddell and Pat Bryant.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah, I think that that whole offense is going to be very, very interesting to watch this year with Waddell's addition with the ensemble of running backs. Like, seems like Dobbins is the guy. Oh, yeah, he is. But then it seems like Harvey might get third downs, and Jonah Coleman's just around, and McLaughlin is just around.
Speaker 4And a last piece of news real quick, Andy. This is fun. Because this is just... This is great news. This is great news. It's fun. Tank Dell of the Houston Texans is practicing.
Speaker 2With Pat's first time in years.
Speaker 4This is awesome. We haven't seen him in like over a calendar year since the... Oh, yeah. It's been basically two years. Horrific injury two seasons ago. He missed all of last year.
Speaker 2Was that the... Just correct me, because it's a long time ago. Yeah. That injury, was that on the block? Yes. That was the goal line block.
Speaker 3He was in line, goal line block, yeah.
Speaker 2Or was that a previous... Other injury. No, no, no. What was that? I don't think it's the same one. Really? I thought it was on a catch. I thought it was on a catch on the back of the end zone.
Speaker 4Yeah. I thought it was a touchdown.
Speaker 2Because he... That was so long ago. Yeah, Kyle sang this catch. Because the year before, I had traded for him, and he was left in on a blocking down, went in, and then was knocked out for the rest of the year. And that was... I forget that that wasn't... I mean, he's had injury issues throughout his career, but when he's been on the field, he's been awesome. It's really tough for... And Stroud was... Much better with him.
Speaker 3Yeah. A guy that's 165 pounds. I mean, we gave him guff when he was in line block. Like, what is he going to do as a blocker? He's not really changing things. Well, we gave him to the team. Yeah.
Speaker 2So he broke his fibula on that block in 2023, missed five games, ended his season, and then the dislocated kneecap was the full season. So there you go. But he's back.
Speaker 4Man, the NFL and the Texans are better if Tank Tell is playing at a high level.
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely. We'll take a quick break and then get into the countdown.
Speaker 1All right, guys.
Speaker 2We are jumping into our tight end rankings countdown, the top 10, looking at positives, negatives of these players. Obviously, the tight end position is... Well, it's a polarizing spot. I mean, you have these high performers, difference makers at a onesie position. But if you have one of those top guys and somebody else is out there streaming the position, it can be a huge advantage on a week-in, week-out basis. Problem is identifying the sleeper ones that can perform out of nowhere and making sure that if you're going to spend high draft capital, that guy is an every week start. So we'll also look at the beginning schedules for these guys a little bit. So let's start counting it down.
Speaker 1Number 10.
Speaker 2Number 10, Travis Kelsey, going on 37 years. Number 10, Travis Kelsey, going on 37 years. I have him ranked the lowest. I've talked about him recently. I'm pretty out on Kelsey. He's just not... One thing I wanted to do, and maybe Kyle, while we're talking about Kelsey briefly, final seasons for some of the greats. I'm just kind of curious where... Antonio Gates. Like Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez, Jason Witten, you know, Jimmy Graham. Like most of those guys, from my recollection, like I remember Jimmy Graham being pretty irrelevant at the end.
Speaker 4Yeah. I mean, he had the...
Speaker 3He came back and had a bunch of touchdowns, right?
Speaker 4In one of those? Well, he just... I was just saying, he had the patella tendon tear. That was a different word. Yes.
Speaker 2But look, it is... You know, whether you believe he can contribute this year or not, he'll... Antonio Gates' final year, final two years, he was 37 and 38 years old. He got 30 passes each year. They were basically irrelevant years. His last good season, 36 years old, 53 for 548 and 7. We know the trajectory right now on Kelsey is... It's going down. It's just a matter of how low does it go. He tends to be out there. But if he gives you six, seven points a game, you're not going to be happy.
Speaker 3No. No, you won't. The thing is, is right now, you've got a tight end who last year had over 100 targets. You've got an offense that I think should be better than last year. Not necessarily an old school, great Kansas City offense, but adding Kenneth Walker, I think, really does help the offense in general. If you have someone that's going to catch 80 passes, they're not going to be bad for where he's being drafted. But the upside is gone. You're not having a player who's making a difference at the position. You're just simply trying to say... I think when you draft Kelsey, you're taking the approach of, I punted the position, but I don't want to stream. And I'm just going to try to be okay with whatever mediocrity he provides. And maybe that's the wrong... Maybe that's the lazy way. And streaming... The question should be asked here, would it be more valuable? Will you score more fantasy? If you're streaming off the waiver wire this season, or if you just play Travis Kelsey every game?
Speaker 2I think once we establish matchups about halfway through the year, you can stream it better than Kelsey personally. But I think that's up for debate. I mean, it's fairly up for debate. I think you're going to find yourself thinking... This is where I think you're going to end up. You're going to think you can start him every week. Because of the name? Because you drafted Travis Kelsey, and I think you're going to not know when to pull the trigger on changing that out. Now, your point about the offense being better, I think that's... Well, within the round... I mean, the Giants scored seven more touchdowns than the Chiefs did last year. The Pittsburgh Steelers, did you like that offense? No. Vomit. Seven more touchdowns than the Kansas City Chiefs last year. Patrick Mahomes is coming off a serious injury. The identity of this team is going to be the running game. Rashi Rice is coming off a serious injury. And I'm not so certain that this offense is going to be significantly better. I think their defense is outstanding. They spent all of their draft capital. And trades on making that defense top in the league. I'm not sure you're going to have it opened up enough for you to be happy. Because all of his targets now are close to the line of scrimmage.
Speaker 4That's why I'm still okay with Kelsey. As the tight end punt. I feel pretty confident that Kelsey will finish in the top ten. That's not always great for your fantasy team or making a difference. But he's going to be the number two target. He will have 100 targets again if he plays in all 17 games. And he'll give you roughly nine points a week.
Speaker 2You think he's the number two target? Because I think that they're going to have to make a transition at some point in time.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, whether Cyrus Allen or Xavier Worthy can step up, I don't know.
Speaker 2I just think tight end snaps may come down. I think you're going to manage him a little bit. It's possible.
Speaker 3Yeah, I will say that older players, you know, we've seen this with Keenan Allen recently. Like, sometimes they get off to a decent start to the year. The first month of the schedule is they're favored – In all four games, first week's a little hard at home against Denver, but then Indianapolis, Miami, Las Vegas, those are great matchups, and then they go on their bye week. So maybe you're right, the second half of the year you stream, you grab Kelsey, play him for a month, and then start knowing what the matchups are.
Speaker 2Shout out to Tony Gonzalez, who at 37 years old had 121 targets, 83 for 8, 59, and 8.
Speaker 4I think Kelsey, that seems right in the range.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's possible. That's the upper range.
Speaker 2Number 9. It's Kyle Pitts coming in at our consensus number 9.
Speaker 4Jason and I have him at 8. This is the man of, what do you possibly do with this? What do you do with Kyle Pitts?
Speaker 2I mean, Kyle Pitts is going to be on the field for 90% of snaps. Kyle Pitts is the second best pass catcher on the team. And Kyle Pitts is 25 years old. I don't know where the confidence is in Tua, but I think it's higher than Pennix. I don't know if it's higher than where you thought Cousins was last year.
Speaker 3It's probably pretty neutral, maybe a little lower.
Speaker 2I just, I find myself in a tough spot like all of us forever, and we will forever be, I think, with Kyle Pitts here. I mean, he was a monster over the final six weeks. He's been brought up ad nauseum that Drake London wasn't there.
Speaker 3Yeah, I mean, obviously you do have that built-in upside.
Speaker 2They said he looks like he's running better than he's ever run before.
Speaker 3I've seen that a lot. This offseason. This offseason, he looks athletically like kind of the player they drafted. It has been a problem. It absolutely has.
Speaker 4Like we've said, like for years, when you're watching Kyle Pitts, where the rookie year, the touchdowns were disappointing, but to have over 1,000 yards as a rookie at the tight end position, that's very impressive. And then kind of since then, we've been watching him saying, this doesn't look like, that doesn't look like the same player. So maybe he just had long injuries that just were, they wouldn't clear up. Maybe they're cleared up, but he is. They paid him a lot.
Speaker 5I'm not drafting him.
Speaker 3I'm not either. But I think it's worth noting that he does have built-in upside of, should Drake London get injured? We saw him truly dominate when he became the de facto one. So we know he can do it. And so there is that kind of built-in, that's not built-in with everyone else. Like right after him is going Sam Laporta. If Jamison Williams, goes down, we've seen the splits. Laporta is the same with and without Jamison Williams. However, the guys around him, like Laporta, better offense, more expected touchdowns, Tucker Kraft. You know, when we've seen him, much higher upside, Harold Fannin. I'm going to say it out loud.
Speaker 2I'm in on Coppets. Yeah. I'm in on Coppets. They just paid him a ton of money. You need the camera? No, I don't need the camera. In fact, hold on. No, no, no, no, no. Put the camera on Jason. Oh, what? Put the camera. I'm in on Kyle Pitts. No, that's me. I'm saying it. I just, I don't want the camera. I mean,
Speaker 4Stefanski has given us success at the tight end position.
Speaker 2No, I'm in. I'm going to, I'm going to wipe the slate clean each and every year. And I'm looking at the contract, the roster, the offense. Kyle Pitts is going to be a focal point. Year six breakout. It's happened before. I don't think that's the quote I'd use.
Speaker 3Wait, is this year six? Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Okay. So let me ask you this. Cause the next tight end we're talking about here is Sam Laporta.
Speaker 1Wait for the number eight. I was,
Speaker 5I was putting it on a tee. It's pretty good. I mean, you can't give the name. No,
Speaker 3it's normally revealed before the number,
Speaker 2but it's fine.
Speaker 3They're going right next to each other in drafts. So right now the, the, what I'm seeing seven Oh four, seven Oh six. They're, they're basically, you're picking one of these two players. So you, you are picking Kyle pits. Yes. Because you are in uncommon. So you will take him over Laporta. Okay. I just wanted that established.
Speaker 2Yeah, I will. I think that Kyle pits is going to be a focal point of the offense on a regular basis. So I'm not, I'm not proud of it. I'm not, I wouldn't tell anybody else.
Speaker 3We have them ranked identical. We both have them as our tight end eight. Obviously last year he was the tight end too. That's a little bit.
Speaker 2Here's a real question for you.
Speaker 3Okay.
Speaker 2If you think, I mean, are you, are you, are you just drafting craft and Kittle automatically assuming they'll be fine ahead of Kyle pits?
Speaker 3I am not. I believe Mike, I would. Yes.
Speaker 2So, you know, are you drafting fan and automatically ahead of pits? Probably.
Speaker 3Yes. I, I, if, if the cost was the same, I would much rather have fan.
Speaker 2All right. Sam, Sam Laporta is who we're talking about now. Um, nobody knows this man better than Jason Moore. Uh, he's been on his team in a bunch of mocks in a row. I got him at nine. Mike at eight, Jason at seven. I mean, Sam Laporta, he's a, he's a great tight end. He's going to be out there every snap for the most part there. The team has an incredible schedule. They're favored in 14 of the first 15 games. They also have a ton of weapons. Jameer Gibbs, I'm on Ross, St. Brown, Jamison Williams. There will be, I think games are going to end up with the short end of the stick. He can make big plays. He has a chance of double digit touchdowns, but we have seen, you know, I mean, Laporta is a pretty safe pick. I think.
Speaker 3Yeah. I mean, that's what it is. I don't see Laporta. Like he can't differentiate himself from the other target monsters at the position. He's never going to have 140 targets the way that a McBride or Bowers or some of these second year tight ends might get to, but the touchdown upside is clearly there. He's already had double digit touchdowns in his career as a rookie. He's on a team that is expected to score a ton of points. And I think this is just a player where you're going to have consistency when he doesn't score a touchdown. It's not like he just disappears, but you're going to have a lot of touchdowns. And if you end up with, let's say nine touchdowns this season, very reasonable for him. That means there's, I mean, when you're tight in scores, a touchdown every other game, at least that week, you have a good chance of winning. And, and so I would rather have a guy who can get in the end zone. Like I, I think Laporta has way more touchdown opportunities than pits. Pits might have more targets. But I'll take the touchdowns at the tight end position.
Speaker 4Last year in his nine games, you know, Laporta had four of them were over 10 points. It like, yeah, I, I would rather, I would rather hitch my wagon to Laporta.
Speaker 2All right.
Speaker 4Number seven,
Speaker 2Tucker craft comes in at number seven. I got him at five. So that's,
Speaker 3I thought this was only Mike's dude.
Speaker 2No, I, I have him ranked at five. All right. Team Tucker, which means he is a above fan and in my rankings and below Bowers, McBride, Loveland and Warren right now. I do think he'll be there from week one. I think that I look, I think their offense is interesting. Top to bottom. I think you have players that were excited about Christian Watson. Yeah. You know, Jaden Reed getting some talk about some two wide receiver sets, all the, all the feedback. I know we're bitter towards Matthew Golden, but all the camp talk has been very positive around Matthew Golden. It's, it's an interesting offense, but craft was kind of what made it go last year. And I do think he's going to be back and healthy. He was the tight end two and fancy points per game. So I don't think ranking him at five is insane. No. Um, and this is not a one hit wonder either. You, you have the breakout from last season. That was a, you know, it was a handful of games where he was upper echelon top tier, but you go back a season. This was the tight end nine with 8.1 points per game. The year before they already knew what they had. And in Tucker craft and just built him into the offense a little bit more. He's a complete bully and man to man coverage, um, you know, tore the ACL. That's the whole storyline. But I think, I think he's going to be good. They're favored in their first six games of the year. It's a nice slate for him to come out and get acclimated. I'm pretty in on Tucker craft consensus wise. We have them at seven. Jason, you were the most, most bearish.
Speaker 3Yeah. So to speak to that, it's really injury and ADP. So he's coming off of an injury where the expectation early in the off season was he'll start the season on the pup. Then as time went on, it got more and more positive. We've seen him at camp. Now he's looking great. If he's running straight, he looks amazing.
Speaker 2He's running straight. He's looking great.
Speaker 3He, you know, he should be there for week one and Tucker craft straight is enough.
Speaker 4Yeah. Just, that's all I need people over. Hey, in line, run a seam route and then run line feeling fine.
Speaker 3Well, the nice thing is even, even with that, you've got, you, you have a lot of bars for TK. You have a lot of plays at the Packers set up like play action where they kind of leak craft out. You don't have to be cutting these amazing routes to catch the little dump off in the flat and then just go mow guys down. It's, it's almost unfair to talk about his points per game because his last game, he got injured and wasn't really involved. He was 14 points per game in the game, you know, full games that he started on pace for 1139 yards. So I don't blame either of you guys. For just taking the shot, the swing of saying, if he is healthy, he is going to, he was truly dominating. However, for me, like he's going right next to Harold Fannin. If I wanted to take a tight end, he's healthy and looked great and scored more fantasy points last year, but he's also going next to other guys at other positions. Like Jordan Tyson, then the guy who played in eight games availability is the, is the best ability. Gosh, but Jordan Tyson, Jason is... Right next to him. Okay. Whatever. People do not like that. Do you think if Tucker Craft plays 17 games, that he definitely scores more points than Harold Fannin? If Tucker Craft plays a full season, yes,
Speaker 4he will score more points than Harold Fannin.
Speaker 2Yeah, the difference in that offense is just going to be pretty large. I mean, Fannin's going to be great, but you did add a couple more weapons in that offense, and our quarterback, you know, that's the differential to me. The quarterback's the offensive system. I still love Fannin. That's why he comes in at.
Speaker 1Number six.
Speaker 2Harold Fannin, 22 years young, and the tight end five last year in Cleveland, with shared time with Njoku, with no wide receivers, with no quarterback. This is only one of two rookie tight ends to go 70 for 706. So he is in. He's an electric player. Harold Fannin is awesome. And if they were smart, which it seems like Monken's going to do, he's going to use Fannin a ton. So if you want to hedge against injury, these guys are back-to-back in my rankings. I don't blame you at all. If you have a, you know, this is where, this is where I think for you, where you have like a tier of superstars, right? So you've got McBride, Bowers, you've got Warren and Loveland. Yes. And that's your core four. That is my core four. And I can kind of see that where it's like, then you can make some really different decisions with like Fannin and craft Kittle. If he's healthy to start the year, you can throw Laporta or pits into that group. It becomes more muddy. It becomes more plant your flag on the offense that you like a little bit. You know, you talked about a reason to like Laporta over pits is they're going to score a lot more touchdowns in Detroit than they will in Atlanta. You can make that. That's part of the craft call over Fannin. I think is that I think green Bay is going to be a great offense on a great, you know, great team. I think Cleveland is going to be better than people, I'll expect, but offensively, not a top, you know, 20 team.
Speaker 3None of us picked them to be the team to score 13. I did think about it. I did. They improved their offensive line in the draft. They've got, you know, an offensive minded head coach now and some good rookie receivers. Yeah. I think that they could be a surprisingly, you know, much better offense to me. Fannin is the one player. I am very fearful of getting wrong because I'm pretty much out on sixth round tight ends. So like, and that's what it is for me because I don't have craft and Fannin in the tier of the elites. I don't think they are. Do I think they're better than the other tight ends I'm going to get later? Absolutely. But I think it's a point a game. I think it's irrelevant for winning and losing in fantasy. This was one of my 10 things to remember is that the difference between the tight end two last year and the tight end 12 was pretty meaningless last year. And so if you're not one of the elites, I would rather have a fifth round, a sixth round, a seventh round pick of the running backs. And wide receivers there take the shot of those guys. But Fannin, what he did in college was so productive. And then to come in rookie year and be that productive is like, Oh, maybe he is just that dude. But on the offense, can he finish top three?
Speaker 4No, no, I don't think so. No. And I'm my, the argument against Fannin is just the Cleveland Browns. Like I I'm with you guys of, he is an awesome player, but looking at the, the, the competition for Harold Fannin last year was Jerry Judy. I know he had to, you know, he had to overtake David Njoku, but it's like Judy had a 20% target share. The next highest wide receiver target share would have been Cedric Tillman, or I'm sorry, Isaiah Bond at 8%. And then Tillman Njoku is at 9%. So it's like these, a first round wide receiver, a second round wide receiver. Let me give you the counter argument there.
Speaker 2The counter argument, Fannin is the Cardinals. Okay. The Cardinals have Michael Wilson, Marvin Harrison jr. As part of that offense, but Trey McBride is the bonafide number one guaranteed target in that offense. Yes. I wonder if, cause when I see fan and the part I'm worried about getting wrong is that this guy could lead the league in receptions at tight end. That's my worry is not from a quantity. I mean, he had 107 targets last year as a rookie. That's the part I'm worried about getting wrong is that he is the PPR winner of the year.
Speaker 3It's actually better than the 107 targets. If you look at when Shador, took over in week 12 and you take out the injury game at the very end of the season, he was on pace for 142 targets with Shador. So McBride,
Speaker 2like those guys don't take away from McBride leading the league in receptions at tight end. Yeah. So rookies are not going to,
Speaker 4I'm saying it's maybe these are, but these are unknowns where it's like Marv and Michael Wilson. There there's some unknown about them of where they could end up this year, but we have no idea how a conception in Boston are going to factor in. To taking away from the target. If those,
Speaker 2is there any chance he has fewer than a hundred targets on this office though? I don't think so. I don't think so. Okay. So at least that's built in as a floor for Harold Fannin. I think.
Speaker 3Yeah. I mean, I love Harold Fannin. When I say I'm not drafting him, it's really just draft price. If he was in the ninth round and I'm giving up a mediocre sixth, I believe right now.
Speaker 2Okay. Yeah. That'll be a tough decision. I think for where people want to tear him mentally because of the Brown situation. And, um, I'm curious, I'm going to have Kyle pull some data on top three tight ends over the last decade or so. And how many of them are on sub 500 teams? Because I'm very curious about that. So I'll give you that information shortly.
Speaker 4Number five. I can tell you last year, he was on a sub 500 team and train McBride. You're talking about the number one.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. Yep. George Kittle. Come on, George comes in at five. We all got them right there. Mike at five. We're at six. This one's been evolving. It's going to continue to evolve over the course of this month. Major injury, not a spring chicken, George kid, almost 33 years old. Also not as old as Travis Kelsey by any stretch. And, um, you know, the touchdowns with Brock party have been there. That was a early career situation with Kittle where you're like, he's going to catch a bunch of passes. He can make a big play, but he's probably going to end up with five or six touchdowns. He's got higher upside now in this offense. And for goodness sakes, they don't have any, they don't have any wide receivers that are healthy.
Speaker 4No, George Kittle is the, the entire, the entirety of the bet for George Kittle is, is health. And so it's like, there is no, there is no doubts of, of how dominant George Kittle can be for, for the NFL, for fantasy football. You know, his, his rookie year wasn't great. 5.7 points per game. But since then his lowest is 10.7, that's huge. Like he's, he's a double digit point machine at the tight end position. And I, and things like the ceiling that the connection he has with Brock Purdy, it raises the stakes even more in, in my opinion. So everything is just, do you think George could be healthy? We have him at five, which is way above market. And like my bet is a season long bet. It, I think it starts slower for George Kittle, but over the course of the season, I think he returned, he returns to form and becomes the true dominator that, that we have seen every year. And it's tight end 10. So if, if you want to protect yourself, you know, if you want to take George Kittle and then Dallas Goddard and then Dallas Goddard, or one of the, you're like likely or Kelsey or, or, or even Travis Kelsey, because Kelsey will give you a floor. And that's a draft strategy that is plausible taking Kittle in the ninth or 10th round, and then coming back and taking Travis Kelsey. It's, I think, I think it's an interesting strategy for this year.
Speaker 2The splits with Brock Purdy over four years. If you spread them out over a season, it would be 81 catches on 106 targets for 1145 yards and 11 touchdowns. That has been the, you know, that's much better than his splits with a different quarterback in San Francisco. Now, Mike, you did read the tea leaves on CMC's health last year. Yeah. Would you mind letting us know the exact, it's pretty important situation for George.
Speaker 3I actually would mind. Oh, you would. I thought we were going to get the answer. I know I am. I am much more worried about the injury. My ranking says how I, your ranking says you believe he's going to be there for, for 17 pretty darn healthy games. I do think second half of the year, he might be good. He's a human. And while he's unbelievable, he's 33 years. He's a dog. He's a dog. He's 33 years. The man is not a human. There's a man old for a football player. Coming off of a very difficult injury. And I know it was a better version. Like the, you know, we keep hearing like, Oh, it's the Achilles tore at the right spot. It's like, well, there's no good spot for the Achilles to tear. There's worse spots. There are worse spots, but he's still tore his Achilles and is coming back. The last video that I saw of him, he's out on the sideline. He's, he's working, but he looks to me like he's a ways away. So I'm, I'm a little bit more skeptical that you will like holding onto him for the first half of the year.
Speaker 2All right, we'll take a break and come back. We'll come back with our top four and some sleeper picks. All right. I do have that information for you before we move on to our top four, which we'll, we'll probably get through them pretty quick. You guys know the names. Top three tight ends over the last five years, six of 15 were sub 500 teams. So it does lower your odds. Certainly you want to be around the end zone, right? Just, I was curious about that. You know, Bowers McBride,
Speaker 3twice. Some of that's tough because Travis Kelsey is every year. you know pretty much over the last decade been in the top three and he's always going to be on a
Speaker 4winning team prior to this year um i think it's like the you're either a dominant player at the tight end position which there's very few of those if you're talking uh guys who are getting it done in the passing game the guys who can rise are that's the offense is going to carry them yep
Speaker 2makes sense number four tyler warren comes in at number four uh jason just talked extensively about tyler warren on our fire and ice episode um but the tldr of that is great it was a great rookie season when daniel jones was healthy focal point of the offense you lose michael pitman beneficiary of those low you know the intermediate targets that pitman was great at and you know alec pierce josh downs on the outside you know downs is unproven out there they want to try him out give him more opportunities pierce got paid all that money but he's been a deep threat most of his career warren's going to soak up the middle of the field benefit from jonathan taylor pulling up defenses so i think we're all very comfortable with tyler warren jason's got him at three mike and i have four that's the only difference jason has him ahead of loveland and we
Speaker 1have him behind meaning number three number three mr loveland it is mr loveland um 22 years old
Speaker 2mike and i have him at three days and at four finished 11 last year came on like gangbusters at the end of the season uh a chess piece for ben johnson in line 56 of the time but then in the slot 22 percent of the time out wide completely 18 of the time you know the debates around burden or do and say how valuable are they we know loveland is going to be a focal point yeah but
Speaker 3the quote that we have gotten recently and i i don't i don't have this well it's from an espn article okay from espn was that loveland is the son of the bears solar system of receivers and that feels like kind of how we anticipate this going um we we have the fight of i love rome you love burden and i i've i've certainly warmed more and more on burden i still don't like his draft price but um that's all right we universally come to the same agreement that is the best weapon on this team and i think the i personally have it now as the target leader for this team is colson loveland the issue is that there are other really good targets so if if caleb is throwing for sub 4 000 yards and you have three really good options is the consistency going to be there for loveland if oh luther burden went off for these four games and and rome went off for these three games or whatever um will we be disappointed in the price of loveland because of those weapons that's my only concern because i think the tape showed and the playoffs showed that he can be a dominant top end force yeah i think the interesting thing is looking at the
Speaker 2the final three weeks of the year in the playoffs when he was really a part of the offense seeing that playoff target share at 28 in an offense that had dj more at 17 at the time i feel like there'll be plenty of weekly upside combined with i think a good floor for colson love and that's why i have him ahead of war and i just like that offensive system better um yeah i would expect both are
Speaker 3good i would expect the bears just to outscore the colts i mean when we were preparing for the show and going through our udk stats and we were looking because free rankings kind of disagreed with the udk rankings because one is done by stat projections one is just done by linear rank and we took a look at these two guys loveland and warren i don't even know if you know this andy because it was mike and i looking at it i probably don't then we were almost identical i mean the points between loveland and warren for all three of us are like flip a coin as far as total fantasy value i do think it's a one round difference yeah i mean that's why i like warren more it's cheaper and i think his floor might be higher but when we're trying to win his championship the ceiling is higher on one hundred percent so the the like if both of these guys go
Speaker 4off this year loveland will be the winner i think about it the exact same way i think warren is probably a a safer pick for like this is going to be a top five uh tight end it's just if if loveland hits the way that the all the chatter is from this the from training camp of the off season he was the number 10 overall pick you know we have the the anecdotes of phones were ringing off the hook during the nfl draft colston loveland gets drafted by the bears which was a little bit of a surprise per the mock drafters and then all of a sudden the phone stopped ringing because people were trying to move up to go get loveland he is i think he will be the the focal part of the bears offense and then
Speaker 2the ceiling is he's a more athletically gifted player than warren is like the and warren's very good it's just loveland is just much more of them if you want to break away touchdown that's not
Speaker 3going to be warren warren's going to break some tackles and get you 20 yards on a cool catch
Speaker 4loveland's going to take it to the house behind the back the chance of loveland usurping brock bowers as the number one tight end at the end of this season to me is much higher than warren yeah i think that's a good way to put it um what number two nope no more let's go to the next floor
Speaker 2trey mcbride did you if you want to i could talk loveland all day i was i was just going to bring
Speaker 3up the negative quote of the the fact that uh he's been seen as a dynamic pass catcher but he is improving as a blocker and that's is that scary for fantasy no because you know who's a great
Speaker 4blocker george kittle like i i think there is some value to we love our our tight ends that aren't you know the jimmy grahams they don't actually play the tight end position they play wide receiver but there is definitely value of the i'm in line i'm looking like i'm gonna block but i'm just a chip and then i leak out for the play action and then hit a big play number two you sound like
Speaker 5you're checking out the emails oh
Speaker 2trey mcbride comes in at number two is that disrespectful this was the first tight end in history to have 100 plus catches in back-to-back seasons he has jacoby brissett fresh off of that sweet 15 million dollar check they're writing him completely uh dominant last year with brissett number one overall fantasy tight end and yet he comes in at two at our consensus rankings
Speaker 3that is not an insult to trey mcbride that is simply a belief in brock bowers trey mcbride they're the only negative thing you could possibly say about his outlook is that it is somewhat probable that during the fantasy playoffs he has a third round rookie quarterback slinging him the ball that's the only fear i have i mean trey mcbride is the leader of this offense you know the the questions of will is marv good did the michael wills it all that's irrelevant those guys are so far behind in the pecking order of mcbride the offense runs through him um he will be
Speaker 2awesome again much better play caller you know you talk about the yeah yeah you know the situation for arizona um i would trust la florida do more with his best player arizona had a ton of yards
Speaker 3last year because the defense was bad and the defense is just as bad this year but they didn't score a lot of points when you when you look at like total team scoring when we were you know looking at who's going to take that jump they have room to to really grow and you add uh love you know in the backfield yeah is that a positive or a negative i think it's a positive
Speaker 4i think having a better offense is always just good they just they had nothing at the running back position last year that's why they their pass rate was so extremely high and like they were running so many plays uh we brought up the stat uh earlier of like he essentially ran multiple games multiple games worth more of snaps uh kyle correct me if i'm wrong i think the most snaps uh or most routes run for a tight end ever in the history of the
Speaker 3nfl it's just those things jacoby bursette was on pace for 685 passing which is an outrageous
Speaker 2number that has to come down number one it is rock bowers coming in at number one the most talented tight end up there in football with the fact that he's the clear number one target with clint kubiak who called him a football robot from heaven what's better being the son of the
Speaker 4solar system well heaven is much better or a football but you're a robot but you're from heaven
Speaker 3you know heaven is above the sun and the stars so i mean it's clearly clearly brock bowers is better here you want you want to know something remember
Speaker 2we were having the debate about gandalf versus uh dumbledore dumbledore i didn't i talked to somebody with knowledge of the lord of the rings universe oh gandalf is part angel i am unaware of this is what they told me this is if i'm quoting it they said from i think get colbert on the phone the similarity on you know that book talks about that i think he's interesting it was spitballers we were talking about this on spitballers um but when you said heaven it reminded me i wanted to let you guys know i'd done some research yeah well that's talking to a stranger we appreciate that
Speaker 3you know we're looking at these top four elite tight ends and and you know my argument for warren is that downs and alec pierce are not as good as the weapons there, you know, all of these other three guys have at least capable receivers on the roster who might break out. Marv might break out. Rome might break out. Burden might break out. Alec Pierce might break out. There ain't none here, brother. No one on the Raiders.
Speaker 4They gave Naylor a bunch of money.
Speaker 2He has the same risk that McBride has, though, that you mentioned.
Speaker 4Which is that it's not a third-round quarterback.
Speaker 2No, it's not a third-round rookie. It's the first overall pick. It's the first overall pick. But the same risk of quarterback change at the back half of the year.
Speaker 3You would assume it will happen. It's very rare in this day and age for the number one overall pick to not get in. But that is enough of a difference to me. Carson Beck versus Mendoza to where, you know, and, you know, Clint Kubiak. He was, LaFleur might be a good, you know, they're both offensive-minded head coaches, but Kubiak was the prize of this offseason.
Speaker 2What's crazy is that this, you know, may seem really obvious to be like, okay, 1-2 is McBride and Beck. Bauer's in some order. The truth is you're going to put them in the order that you believe. But they're going directly back-to-back in drafts. So this is a, like, you do have to just pull the trigger on one. Like, if you're going to be there at 2-0-5 or 2-0-3 or wherever you're at, you're sacrificing, obviously, a very high-quality wide receiver running back. And you have to make the call here, and you don't want to get it wrong because you're investing so much into a fantasy tight end. Is it possible to get this pick wrong, really?
Speaker 3No. I mean, injury will get it wrong with, oh, you're saying between the two?
Speaker 2Yeah, I mean, can you really get that wrong?
Speaker 3So I think you could get it wrong where you will have regrets, and the only way that you get that wrong outside of injury on the regret front is that what Bauer's does is truly break, you know, the position. I think that is in the range of outcomes. Like McBride did last year. That's in the range of outcomes to me. That's the funny part. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like he did it. What did McBride score last year on? What was his per average? Oh, he was 15.
Speaker 2I mean, he was unbelievable.
Speaker 4He was like four or five points better than the tight end, too. Yeah.
Speaker 2So that's the part where it's hard for me to be like, you know, the Raiders were, what, dead last in the NFL in touchdown scored? Correct. And so now you're bringing in Kirk Cousins? That's the part where I have more confidence in the connection between. Like, I'm going to switch these. I'm sure they're basically, yeah, they're three points apart in my rankings. But out of respect for that connection already built, I'm going to make that tweak.
Speaker 3Okay. So I will say right now, McBride is going ahead in ADP by exactly one pick. Yeah. I mean, that's what Andy's doing right here. He's saying, if I'm on the clock, I'm taking McBride.
Speaker 2I'm going to take McBride. And I look at the end of the year. I think the Cardinals. I think they're going to score more touchdowns than the Raiders do. So, I mean, I think that's going to end up repeating 11 touchdowns. Is it hard? Yeah. Is he going to do it? Probably. He'll probably do it. Bowers might do it, too. These guys are going to be. It's going to be a narrow, very close situation. But it's tough. I know you are the most, like, into Brock Bowers you've ever been, you know, in terms of, like, looking at him as the bona fide number one overall at the position.
Speaker 3Yeah. I mean, it's tough. Yeah. They're both. They're both great players. I don't think that there's a bad pick here. And I will say that my strategy.
Speaker 2McBride would have been wide receiver four last year, by the way.
Speaker 3My strategy this year is get an elite tight end. And that means only these four. And perhaps even if you want to take the strategy to just. Like, we know Bowers and McBride are going to be dominant. Warren and Loveland are projections. You're hoping. Now, they're a little cheaper, but they still cost a lot in drafts. If you wanted to take the strategy of it's just Bowers and McBride or else punt, like I'm, I'm fine with that as well. Bowers and McBride are both around Josh Allen category.
Speaker 2I mean, could you want this be your decision between if you're going to go onesie, you go Josh Allen or you go Bowers McBride, probably. How do you view that in terms of advantage for your team?
Speaker 4Mike, I, I lean the tight end spot of, of, of getting one of those two guys. It's not a lack of confidence in Josh Allen. It's just a, you, you know, finding. Ending quarterback production is you've got guys you like later, it's just easier. And w and more predictable on a week to week basis than streaming a quarterback. Um, if, depending on your league and how they handle the waiver wire, but in terms of just the process of identifying the quarterback that should have a good week compared to the tight end, it's, it's easier on the quarterback side.
Speaker 3Yeah. It's a, I mean, we started this episode talking about Travis Kelsey. He's our 10th ranked tight end. And so if you're going to take one late and one early. The difference between Travis Kelsey is like the tight end 10 versus, you know, Trevor Lawrence right now. ADP wise is the quarterback. 10 is like, is Travis Kelsey, does Travis Kelsey have a chance to be another like absolute difference Baker at the position? Probably not. Does, does Trevor Lawrence? Sure. Probably does. Dak does Jackson dart. Those guys, those are all those guys, Tyler shock. Yeah.
Speaker 2Bone Knicks, um, sleeper tight end. You're interested in, cause this is, you know, we have our top 10 by consensus, but throwing out a sleeper tight end for me. It's Goddard. I've brought him up a couple of times. Um, whenever AJ Brown or Devante Smith has missed time, he's been a huge beneficiary on the offense. AJ Brown is gone. He's going to miss some time for the high lemon. Is that two hamstring injuries? We don't right now. It looks like Don Tavian Wicks is the second man up, which to me makes Dallas Goddard the wide receiver to Eli Stowers has done nothing.
Speaker 3He's, he's been buried on the depth chart so far in, in camp. So I, I, I like that him to get it together. I agree. Uh, mine is the guy I took in our last mock draft. Dalton Kincaid. The team picked up his fifth year option. Who's first round pick. He was literally the best in the entire league at tight end at, um, sorry, yards per route run. The problem was he wasn't healthy. He only ran 15 rounds right now. Very healthy. There was a, uh, a miniature scare where it was like, oh, he, yeah, he went, he went down. And so he was interviewed afterwards about like what happened. I was like, was this the knee again? It was like, no, he got, he got it in the family jewels. And he said, yeah, not enough referencing the family. I feel like I haven't heard that since like early Simpsons, but currently very healthy. And obviously having Josh Allen as your quarterback doesn't hurt.
Speaker 4And I'm going as I like to do the Senator with the tight end position. Oh, Jason guys. Like if Benson, it happens. We're the show. We're just, we're going to close it down. Don't worry about good news for clan.
Speaker 3We aren't going nowhere.
Speaker 4Just saying. Uh, no, I'm going with a, you know, we've talked about, uh, you need a tight end who can become the number two or the number one option. The Miami dolphins. It's gross down there. Uh, Andy is a big believer in Malik Willis. I'm more on your side of, I think that he is a, uh, more likely to be a good quarterback than not. Who's the number one option there? I guess it's Malik Washington right now. Just de facto, but Greg Dulcich is there. His, you know, the, the nerd. The nerd stats, the yards per route run. Pretty good. 2.38. Not a huge sample size for him. He's had his moments as a, as an NFL. He's had moments and he has the, uh, the, he has the athletic profile that we want it. When you're, when you're just taking a random shot at the tight end position, athleticism matters. This isn't like, you know, like guys that running back and wide receiver, they can be slower. It's just, it can happen, but, but an athletic tight end, they are more likely to break. He could end up as the number one target for this offense. That doesn't mean I'm saying top five or anything, but it's a player who is right now undrafted that I think he, like he could be a sneaky top 12 guy at the end of the year. There's always, there's always nasty tight ends that, that sneak in there.
Speaker 2Yeah. And, and this is also something where, look, if you might not get drafted, you probably won't get drafted in your league. But when you're looking at what happens and you get a sign in week one or two. Yeah. Week, week one, eight targets show up. Right. And even if he doesn't catch them all or doesn't get in the end zone, look for, I love looking for tight ends through the target lens when you're looking at the free agency. Yeah. See who's getting action.
Speaker 3Fannin was there last year on the waiver wire this year. I mean, Isaiah likely might be that. Chig might be that. Or Sadiq or somebody. Yeah, Sadiq. There's a lot of options.
Speaker 2All right. That'll do it for today's episode. Mock draft episode tomorrow. And then we'll resume rankings episodes as well. Footclangiveaway.com for that signed. On Robinson Jersey, if you want to check that out. And the ultimate draft kit is ultimatedraftkit.com. Thank you for tuning in, Footclang. Thank you for coming along for the ride. It's going to be a fun August because Carson Beck is starting tomorrow, guys. Oh, boy. Here we go. Goodbye.
Speaker 1Thank you for listening to another episode of the Fantasy Footballers podcast. Join our fantasy football community on jointhefoot.com. And follow us on Twitter at the FF. FFBallers.
PodcastTranscript AI