Family Murder Tree - Post Falls, Idaho

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay and choo-choo! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another crazy story. This is a wild story. It looked like a little thread sticking out, and then you pull it, and an entire jacket comes up. A parka comes out of there. You're like, what the hell just happened? It's the craziest story. Just in time for summer. Can't wait to get into it. We will get into that in just one moment. All aboard the murder train, pulling away from the station here. One quick thing here, top of the show stuff. Shut up and give me murder.com. Head there right now. Get your tickets for live. It's a great place to be, like Jimmy said here. September the 18th at the Pabst in Milwaukee. Not a lot of tickets left for that one, so if you want to go to that, definitely get them now. September 19th in Minneapolis at the State Theater. Get your tickets right now for that one as well. We're excited. We love Minneapolis, so we cannot wait. Do that. Get Milwaukee, and then there's also Dallas, San Jose, Sacramento, Derrytown, and Boston. So get your tickets now. Listen to the other shows that we do, which is Crime and Sports, which is hilarious. We promise. You do not have to like sports. You just have to like comedy and crazy stories. And then Your Stupid Opinions, where we hear people's reviews of places that we don't care about. And it's a lot of fun, hilarious shows, so check those out. Then get yourself Patreon. Patreon.com slash crimeinsports is where you get all of the bonus material. All you have to be is $5 a month or above, and you get everything we put out, including as soon as you subscribe, you get almost 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before. Binge on those. Then you get new ones every other week. One Crime and Sports, one Small Town Murder, and you get them all, everybody. Do what? Do what? That is from our last Patreon, Small Town Murder, which was Maternal Instinct. Yeah. And that was the man's reaction to your girlfriend did all these things and killed a woman and cut a baby out and everything. He said, do what? So Maternal Instinct is what we're doing for Small Town Murder, and then for Crime and Sports, Kirby Puckett. Yeah. Yeah. The old cherubic guy. He's an amazing young man. Did some strange things there. So get that, Patreon.com slash crimeinsports, and in addition to all of that, you also get every thing we put out, Crime and Sports, Your Stupid Opinions, both episodes of Small Town Murder, all ad-free. Wow. Get your page ad-free, and you get a shout-out at the end of the show. Jimmy will mispronounce your name, but he'll feel bad about it and want it to be correct. Yeah. That's sad. That's right. I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. What do you say? Here we go. Clear the lungs. There you go. Arms to the sky, everybody, and let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Yeah. Let's do it. We're going to Idaho this week. Fucking A. Hasn't been too, too long since we were in Idaho, but like I said, the way it worked out, boy, is this a wild case. This is Post Falls, Idaho. Two words. Post Falls. Northwestern Idaho. Panhandle action. This is Idaho Panhandle up there. It is up there. Is there a falls? I have no idea. It's Post Falls. They call it that. Maybe it's because there's no more falls. It's Post Falls. It's after the falls. Years and years ago. They're gone. It's gone now. Northwestern, like we said, 15 minutes to Coeur d'Alene, about eight and a half hours to Jerome, Idaho. Our last Idaho episode, episode 679, Murder Colors Don't Run. That was funny. That was a wild episode. This is in, and I don't think I've ever said this county name right, Kootenai County. It's going to be native. Something like that. Yeah. K-O-O-T-E-N-I-I. Okay. Area code 208 at 986. Population of this town, about 44,000. Yeah. So it's grown a lot recently, too, in the last 10 years. Median household income here, pretty low for median household income. 38,160. $162 a year. That's about 30 grand less than the national average. Almost half. That's not good. And that doesn't help that the median home cost here is 457,200 bucks. So it is expensive. How dare you? And apparently not easy to make money here. So that's tough. A little bit of history, real quick, just mainly the name. Post Falls is named after Frederick Post. I figured it was because there was like a postal outlet there or something. It's, you know, in the middle of nowhere. No, no, no. It's a German guy, an immigrant. Okay. Who constructed a lumber mill along the Spokane River in 1871 on land that he purchased from the chief of the Coeur d'Alene tribe. What a guy. Did it the right way, anyway. The purchase of the land is preserved in a pictograph on a granite cliff in Treaty Rock Park. There's this whole, like, display of, like, him, like, handing over the deed. It's crazy. Somebody drew it. Somebody made it. Yeah, it's interesting. Reviews of this town. They should have made a little diorama. That would have been nice. A nice-looking shoebox diorama. Yeah. A little guy. In an Adidas box. Yeah, that would have been fun. Puma, maybe. Whatever. Something with the hoods attached is awesome. Something. Yeah. Yeah. Here's five stars here. Okay. I love the mountains and the easy access to the wilderness. There are plenty of restaurants in the area and lots of things to do around town. People are generally nice. Is that right? Wow. I disagree with that last sentiment wholeheartedly. Ah. But maybe. In this town. In general. In general. No good. Three stars here. Really pretty scenery, but the town doesn't like you unless you're a Mormon or you've grown up your whole life here. That sounds probably correct. The town is, yeah. The town itself will reject you. The land. Also, the place does not know how to forgive anybody. Forget what it is. The place doesn't forgive you. Sir, what did you do? What did you move here and then do? That's the thing. You moved here, fucked up, and now you want these strangers to forgive you for some reason. This place does not know how to forgive anybody and is really stuck up. Terrible place to raise a family. Okay. Well, if that's true, how dare you be stuck up, you broke fox. You got no money. What are you talking about? Yeah. Two stars. I live where tires have been slashed and vehicles are vandalized, and the police do nothing about it. They can't. Nothing. Well, don't worry. They don't do much about murder, too, as we'll find out. That's all right. You should. That's the least of your concerns. Don't worry about it. Here's one star finally here, and this is extremely specific, I think, to this person's experience, I would say. Quote, There are always loud neighbors that like to scream and yell at other neighbors. Always? The whole town or your neighbors suck? Which ones? Yeah. It has gotten to the point where I want to move. Oh, neighbors have driven you out. Here's the good news. You're allowed. There it is. Yeah. I'm sure plenty of people run screaming. I'm sure plenty of people are screaming from here, so I'm sure there's just as good a beaten path out of this place as there is into it. Next up, things to do, the North Idaho State Fair. Yeah. Oh, baby. Here we go. Idaho does a fair like nobody, though. They do a lot. I found some interesting activities that are going on before we get to the music that happens, but there's an open horse show. Yeah. So open for any horses. We open my horse. Come on in from the plane. See what's inside. See what makes them tick. A little bit. You know what I mean? There's also a poultry testing and then it says mandatory next to that. Yeah. Livestock and education programs, youth show and stock sale. But there's testing. Then at 4 p.m., you've got to help me with this, rabbit tattooing. Oh. Why are we tattooing rabbits? So, well, I don't know. Are they douchebags? Do they want just like a tribal around their legs, like a douchebag from 1999? Some tear drops, yeah. What are they looking for here, these rabbits? Fine line? Are we talking about some traditional? What are we doing? What are we doing? Exactly. That's what I'm saying. I want that. Is it like a tribal thing? What are we talking about? You know? I wonder if it's for the, because you have, people tattoo their lives. It's like a branding. Maybe they tattoo the, get your rabbit tattooed. You tattoo your rabbits? They're this fucking big. What's the difference? And they reproduce like crazy. Yeah. Do we need to tattoo them, really? Yeah. Some untatted rats or rabbits all over the place. Well, you brand your lives. So if they get away, people know where they're from. Is someone going to pick up a rabbit and return it to you, probably, from 10 miles away? I don't see that happening. There's a Circle J tattoo. Oh, man. For music, we got the Junebugs, the secondhand band. Uh-oh. Okay. It's getting worse. Porter Combs. Wonder what he sings. Yeah. Luke's little brother. Yeah. The Real McCoy. He's the one. Oh, yeah. He's the Real McCoy. Just one. Just him. Music on the Midway. Oh, that's Junebugs again. Tanya Lowe, which sounds like a country act. Anthony Ray, to keep up the tradition of country acts with three-letter last names. Jack Conrad. Okay. Mystic Mountain Music. Uh-oh. And Lake Town Sound. Oh, also, Funshine will be there. Oh, boy. Oh, Funshine. Oh, Funshine's going to be there. Casey and the Funshine Band. The Funshine Band. Mel Dalton. band is going to be there, Valerie Jean. G-E-A-N-N-E a red-headed country singer is the way I picture that I don't like this at all this is so bad Midnight Juliet Riley Anderson then the real McCoy again AP Collective and how much country can you fucking listen to and The Hankers not The Yankers not The Crankers The Hankers but they just sing Hank Williams shit yeah Ethereal and E Rusty Jackson wonder what he sings Rusty Jackson that's nothing Courtney and Company John DeLong Catahoula Mix and that's it so there you go Catahoula Mix which is what my brother's dog is I believe he's a Catahoula Mix that's exactly what they called him that said let's talk about some shitload of murder that's just great this is a murder onion this whole episode they got as much murder as they got country music at the same time so much yeah they have to equal it that's the county law you have to have equal parts murder and country singers at the fair at the end of that show you would just throw up absolutely I would hope so god damn it I wouldn't make it to the end of the show I'll tell you that much take that law I love country I'd look at it and go well that's not good by the third act I'd be nauseated totally now this story here started out as one murder that I thought and then as you go into it you find out that is not even close to the tip of the iceberg there's so much more going on here and even something that we don't even know is cleared up yet it's the craziest fucking story so let's get into it let's talk about a man first of all Gary Charles Loesch L-O-E-S-H or I'm sorry L-O-E-S-C-H born October 3rd 1939 he is from Sacramento father Charles mother Myrtle he's got brothers named Randy and Wayne Randy keep that in mind because we'll talk to Randy quite a bit over the course of this show don't know when or I think it was in the mid 60s at some point not sure if he was in Vietnam or what but he was in the Air Force at some point might have been early 60s before Vietnam because he's born in 39 not sure but he's in the Air Force in 1969 he gets married he gets so he's 30 at that point gets married to Barbara Dean Stultz S-T-U-L-T-Z Barbara Dean Stultz and she is born April 7th 1945 so about 6 years younger and so she's 24 at the time she's also from Sacramento they live in Sacramento at the time and that's where they meet and marry and everything like that they're going to have a couple of kids in 1970 they have a son named Chuck Charles everyone calls him Chuck and then November 6th 1971 they have a daughter named Tina Rose okay not Rose is her middle name they don't call her Tina Rose they don't call her it's just Tina but they have a daughter now they ended up moving around a little bit they moved from California to Spokane, Washington in 1979 not a bad move lived there for a while where Gary was a member of he was in a bunch of clubs he's a member of the elk what is it the Masonic Blue Lodge in Elk Grove, California he's a shriner and a member of the Scottish Rite of Spokane oh boy so he's in all these clubs and he wears a lot of clothes he's got like four silly hats he has to wear to different meetings that's what it sounds like so they settle in Post Falls in 1986 so their kids are 15 and 16 and that's how it goes and their kids are much different Chuck is pretty straight arrow kind of a guy Tina runs with the wrong crowd is kind of a fuck up is a little bit of a tearaway hard to handle Tina is interesting to go from Sacramento and then just keep trying to find smaller places so yeah every few years downsize your town a little bit in 1991 they have a grandchild Tina has a son okay it's like we said she's not that reliable here and stuff so she has a son named Christopher with a K remember him because he's oh boy he's a big part of the story okay June 1992 Gary and Barbara begin doing a newspaper route apparently I don't know if she helps sort and he does the delivering or whatever but they he and then later on his brother Randy will join him at another route do from their car they deliver like hundreds and hundreds of newspapers which back in the day you could actually make decent money in the morning doing that because it would be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of everybody got the paper it's volume it's volume so you make decent money they do the same route every day he goes out that's an interesting job because that one didn't have much forethought or forecasting seeing how fast that was going to go away because it literally was hundreds of years but yeah not only that the printers the reporters the fucking editor everybody yeah everybody went so now he began this is June 1992 they distributed about 300 newspapers a day him and his wife that's a good amount he also helped deliver on the weekends and that's his second job his main job he works for Dilley Amusement Company for the last 10 years so pretty much since they got to town now Tina in the early 90s here their one daughter who has the son Christopher she ends up in and out of jail for a bunch of shit check frauds and frauds and thefts in Idaho in Idaho yeah a bunch of these kind of petty things that add up to get you jail time so parents here Gary and Barbara end up taking care of Christopher quite often in the mid 90s and early 90s because Tina's in and out of jail and they have a stable environment so they're there September 90s 1995 Gary helps his brother Randy move to the area and gets him a job delivering papers on the route next to his it's like the next route over so yeah so they they hadn't lived near each other for 25 years the two brothers and Randy said we always talked about me coming up here and getting together and building a house together we were going to try to be a family again so it seems like they've maybe been estranged a little bit and they're trying to get their shit together yeah mend some fences and yeah I mean you're you know 50 years old get it together in your 50s get along I'll never talk to my sister again no I have a I have a brother I'm not really talking too much I'm never going to fucking mend that fence oh I understand we both have we both have fences with wildlife just streaming through them just buffalo I just wave to them it's wide open too I'm like well you know where it's open if you want to come back I don't know what to tell you I'm all out of nails that's it I got nothing I can't fix that fence I'm out of chain link babe I'm done so Monday morning November 13th 1995 alright 3.30 a.m. Gary is out delivering his papers which right away that is an awful job awful just a terrible time to be awake fucking awful now at 3.30 a.m. nearby residents on his route think they hear gunfire no a guy named Russ Greenfield said he and his girlfriend were startled awake at about 3.30 a.m. at about 3.30 a.m. by what they thought was gunshot they were big booms they were loud and nearby this part of Idaho can identify gunfire they know gunfire and it's common too that's the other thing so they you know it's somewhere within like a block they figure it sounded real real loud they looked out of their trailer window but didn't see anything that's the other thing in a trailer everything's louder on the outside it's basically like if you make two tin cans and make a phone out of it a trailer is one of them and it's just a string to the world put an empty can and flick it and see how that sounds it's a string to the world is what it is that's it so now they looked out they didn't see anything however Greenfield said we heard a car leave here at a high rate of speed we could hear the gravel spinning so they hear a big boom and then a car tear ass and they go back to sleep they looked out the window and went I don't know and then went back to sleep which okay none of my business I suppose he's already gone because he was going real fast yeah it must have been that's it so then they got up at 5.50 a.m. they woke up and as they drank their morning coffee they noticed a car parked in the middle of the road out there about a block away car parked in the middle of the road and it's Gary's car the newspaper guy they know the paper guy's car the lights are on the driver's side window is rolled down but it's raining outside so who the fuck is sitting in the middle of the road with their window down in the middle of the road in the rain that's a strange thing so Greenfield clearly alarmed as fuck waits an hour so 3.30 gunshot car tearing out ah go back to sleep yeah look out there car sitting in the middle of the road near where I heard that gunshot window down in the rain I'll wait I'll give it an hour see how it goes this guy is indicative of their real daily motivation this is why you make half the national average in salary no shit talk about I mean I'm all for being laid back you know but I'm a stoner but this is crazy like this is a get to work man do something so then he became more suspicious because the car battery started dying and the lights started dimming oh so it's yeah the ignition is not running so he said quote this is what he said at 6.50 a.m. this started at 3.30 in the morning by 6.50 he said I thought this isn't right and I called the police Something's not right You can't get anything past this guy, boy. He is a fucking – he is smooth. You can't get nothing past him. So – and at the same time, people – the newspaper is getting complaints from like 5 a.m. on that their newspaper didn't come. People didn't get their newspaper, which – if you have any job where if someone doesn't get what they need, by 5.10, they're on the phone with you. That's a terrible job. Awful. Imagine getting complaints at 5.10 in the morning. You'd be like, dude, fuck you. Are you out of your – I just woke up. Fuck you. You'd be hanging up. Shut up. Fuck off. You'd be losing your mind. Yeah. Oh, you didn't get your 18-cent paper? What's a fucking paper cost back then? It was a quarter, right? Yeah, and that's at the newsstand. If you get a subscription, it's cheaper. You're paying like 12 cents a paper. Shut the fuck up. Be amazed when it arrives at 3.30 in the morning because that's incredible that a human left their house to deliver something for 11 cents to you in the middle of the night. Do you understand how crazy that is? I mean they're still delivering mail for 50 cents. That's what I mean. Send a letter from L.A. to New York. We've talked about this and people complain. It's like it cost you 50 cents. It's fucking magic. You know how much it would take you to take that somewhere? Forget about it. It's not happening. Mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. So the guy, Marshall, is the guy who runs the newspaper delivery thing and he said, you know, it was crazy that he was getting complaints. He said, Gary's always on time. Quote, he's a perfectionist. I don't think he's ever missed anybody. Yeah. So he's a good newspaper. Rain, sleet, or snow, babe? That's right. So he's the perfect representation of that. So the police arrive and they find Gary dead in his car. Oh, no. Dead in the still park next to the paper boxes about 7 a.m. where he was about to deliver papers to. There are two stacks of newspapers undisturbed in the backseat of his Toyota Camry and blood is pooled in the front passenger seat where he slumped over. Slumped over. After. He's been shot in the head. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was like one gunshot. He just drove. Apparently, they reconstructed it. He drove down. It's a tree-lined gravel road. He stopped, rolled his car window down, shoved newspapers into the two boxes right there. Yeah. And before he got to the third one, apparently, he got killed. Now, I like how the – you know people in the houses came out while they were working the crime scene and was like, can I just get my paper? Can I just – if you just – The house is mine. Is it evidence? Probably not, right? Just hand it and pull it out of the box. Is there any blood on it? Can I have that? I don't know the paper guy. I'm sorry. I mean, it's tragic. I understand, but I don't know him. Horrible. I don't know. Did they already hire a new guy for tomorrow? I will get it tomorrow, right? Should I call? I'll call. I'll call them. You know what? You guys do your thing. You guys go back to – go back to what you're doing. I'm sorry. Yeah. So – News, please. You know. So, this is – he's been delivering on this same route for three and a half years. The bullet right in the head, it gets him. No weapon is found at the scene. There's no signs of a struggle. No indication that he's been robbed either. There's no robbery here. Murder was the reason. It looks like murder. It's about halfway through his route. It was in a neighborhood just off Ohio Match Road. So, while the cops are working the crime scene, about 8 a.m., Randy and Chuck pull up to the scene with the cops processing it. The brother and his son. Yeah. His brother and his son, Randy and Chuck. So, Randy said he was worried. He said, quote, he told me he'd be back by 5.30 and it was 8 a.m. and I got no phone call or nothing. Right. So, they pull up. Chuck's 25 at this point. And, you know, they pull up to the crime scene tape. I mean, it's right there. So, his brother and another carrier for the Spokesman Review, that's the newspaper he was working for, said that Gary is carrying no money and has no enemies. Yeah. It's not like these guys collect the money. Right. They send checks to the newspaper, you know. So, this guy said, the brother said, it's senseless. You couldn't ask for a better person. The guy who was the circulation district manager at the paper said he was a good friend. Beside working with him, he said he was just a good person. And Randy said he knew everybody along the way and got along with everybody. So, it doesn't make sense. And, again, a newspaper, like, is not a reason. It's not a reason to shoot somebody. He's been throwing your paper in the bush instead of on the porch. So, you're going to murder the guy. It's not his fault the NASDAQ is where it's at. That's right. I didn't do it. Because all that information used to be in there, remember? Don't shoot the messenger? Couldn't be more apt to this situation. I didn't write any of this shit. I didn't even read it. I just handed it to you. So, does it happen a lot, they're wondering here. They said not really because the carriers don't carry any cash. Right. So, they don't really. They don't. They don't collect anything. They said they employ 125 carriers in the Coeur d'Alene Sandpoint area. Almost all of them are adults. And they said this is the first time that an Idaho carrier has been hurt by anybody. Two Spokane delivery carriers were killed in the past. A 32-year-old was beaten to death in 1987. And a 70. In 76, a 13-year-old girl was murdered after she disappeared from her paper route. And we know what that's about. It has nothing to do with newspapers. Somebody just knew. Somebody just knew where to collect a 13-year-old girl early in the morning. On her bike. On her bike. So, the circulation guy said, you can't predict a thing like this. I think it was a random act of violence. He must have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is Ashley Iaconetti from the Almost Famous Podcast. You ever notice you and your spouse keep saying, we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything? That was us until we did something fun and spontaneous. We went to resortpass.com. There are hundreds. There are hundreds of hotels, resorts, pools, and spas, and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort, pool, spa, massage, without booking an overnight stay. And listen, I may have only been like 15 minutes from home, but it felt like it was a whole different world. And I'm thinking, this is exactly what I needed. So, just go to resortpass.com. Choose your resort. Choose your day. Luxury resort day passes start at just $25. Once you post your daycation, people are going to ask where you are. Go to resortpass.com slash almostfamous and use the promo code almostfamous to get $20 off when you spend $100. That's code almostfamous at resortpass.com slash almostfamous. Random act. Their paper does offer a $5,000 reward for the capture. Oh, that's nice. This is not the murder that we were even talking about today, by the way. This is just a subsequent side murder, okay, that wraps in. Now, the suspects. The suspects right away are Chuck and Randy. Because they knew where to go. They went right to the spot. Yeah. Now, they said. But Randy knows his route. So, if you drive his route, you're going to find him. He said, I know his route, and I just went on his route. That's what he said. He goes, I just happened to come across where you guys were. If you were, you know, in another neighborhood, I would have found you there. But they said, hmm, it's weird that you, you know, the cops were only there about a half hour and you pull up. It seems like, you know, you knew ahead of time. And he said no. And Chuck claimed in an interview. There's a show called Accident, Suicide, or Murder that talked about a couple of these cases we're going to talk about in here. And Chuck did an interview with them. And he said, we knew the route well and were worried about my dad. So, we went looking for him. And so, they found discarded cigarette butts at the crime scene. Like someone was smoking, waiting for him. Like Omar. Like fucking Omar from The Wire, like staking somebody out. Dropping Newports, yeah. They found a pile of cigarette butts at the crime scene. And they said, well, that's certainly. That's certainly connected here. Because they asked the neighbors, does anyone stand here and smoke? And they all said no. So, that's a thing. Turns out the DNA on the cigarette butts is from a woman. Oh. So, Chuck and Randy immediately ruled out. And the whole thing is thrown into a hole. Because they're like, what the fuck woman would stalk a paper guy and shoot him? That's crazy. This is wild. This is wild already. And the crazy parts haven't even happened yet. Okay. So, February 96. Chuck gets married. He was working as an inside salesman at the Coeur d'Alene Napa Auto Parts store at the time. Oh, boy. So, good for him. Randy said, the last time I talked with the detective, they told me they were grabbing at straws. They had no evidence. Not grasping. Nothing. Grabbing. He said, yeah. One of the detectives said, we're still investigating. I'd like to be able to tell you we're in the throes of an arrest, but we're not. They said, the big part. This is amazing. The lack of evidence has been the biggest. problem with the investigation. Is that what it is? Really. What the fuck else would hinder it? I mean, if we got overwhelming amounts of evidence and you couldn't solve it, we might have some more questions. But this makes a lot of sense. Sure. You think that's the most obvious thing a human being can say, especially one with a badge. This guy, the next sentence he said to a newspaper reporter is amazing. Quote, what's really tough is trying to find out who did it. Well, it's a good thing you're a cop. It's a good thing they're paying you fucking 50 grand a year or whatever you're getting paid for this. It's a good thing this is a job, then. It's not just volunteers from around the neighborhood, because it sounds difficult. It feels like he should be the inside salesman at the Napa. Right? It's amazing. And Randy Loesch said, not knowing why, not knowing who, the basic not knowing is frustrating. And he also said, it's always going to be with us. The not knowing is the irritating thing. There's so little to do. go on. Now, Randy said The family has come together since the murder, and they stopped delivering newspapers as well. The whole family, we're done. We're done. He said, we're all scared. We're jumping at shadows. We don't want to go anywhere alone because this is so random. They're scared. He said, it's just so strange. It's beyond belief. It's just a strange situation. So four months later in March, they still don't have any leads. Barbara, Gary's wife, and Chuck and Tina's mom said, we're at our wit's end. He said, we just don't know. She doesn't know what's going on. So Barbara is forced to just go on with her life with no resolution to her husband's murder. She goes on. She was never a suspect, despite the female DNA. She was home and not a suspect. January 11, 1998, so two and a half years later, Barbara hasn't been heard from in about three days by anybody. Barb's not around now. Barb's gone. So Randy and his wife decide to go check on her after what happened with your brother. I'd be done checking on anybody. First of all, checking shit, not checking anything. Now, they said she has a history of depression. So they wanted to check on her, make sure she was OK, especially since her husband's been murdered. And no one's found who did it. Randy noticed that the back door to her house was open while he and his wife, Laura, stopped by, which set off alarm bells. They backed away and called the police. Yeah, that's good enough. No, this is weird. That's already. I'm done cashing out. So Randy calls the cops, asks for a welfare check. Scott Hague, a patrol sergeant, said when someone's asking for a welfare check at that home, the hair on the back of your neck goes up a little bit. OK, so they said the detective arrives and they said Randy basically did not want to go into the house until I went in with him. There was something that was just not sitting right with me at that point. All right. Canvas the house. They go inside. They don't really find anything. Then they make their way to the back porch. And this is what the detective said. Quote, when you when we look down the steps, you could see Barbara floating in the hot tub down there. Oh, and not like leisurely, like wave and go and make yourself grab yourself a margarita from the. Not none of that. She's floating face down. Oh, and very much not alive. Her body is found not only in the hot tub, but there's also a large TV. In the hot tub as well in the hot tub, submerged in the water. OK, so at first they thought it was a deck electrocution. Maybe she had the TV perched up on the edge. It fell in tragic accident. The cop said she looked like she had been in that hot tub for several days. It was one of the worst death scenes I have ever experienced. It's a Barbara soup. Yeah. In water. Oh, it's going to be gross. That's bad. They said the TV in the hot tub obviously raised more questions. They said, did she accidentally knock the TV into the water and was electrocuted? Who knows? Yeah. And that seems like something. But there's things called circuit breakers. And well, 1996 has those. We'll get into it. Don't you worry, son. Yeah, it's coming. All right. So the autopsy, considering her depression, they didn't know if maybe she did it on purpose. Right. So Barbara's body is too decomposed for a toxicology test. No obvious injuries or marks on her at all. She hasn't been beaten or anything like that. Has it been bubbling the whole time, too? Oh, it's on. Oh, my God. That's terrible. 100 degree water, 100, you know, three degree water. The medical examiner concluded the cause of death was undetermined and that suggested and suggested it was a possible accidental drowning. Wow. OK. Now, when they look around and do a little investigation, they find out the TV was plugged into a 25 foot extension cord that came from the garage. Mm hmm. But they noticed one thing that was strange. The cord wasn't plugged in. The TV's not plugged in. Yeah, that doesn't do anything. No. So Barbara, they said, had other medical issues. Maybe she had a health emergency and died before she could plug the TV in. But then why would she be in the who gets in the hot tub, sits there and then gets out and goes and plugs the TV and it doesn't make sense. Yeah. And then it doesn't has no it's weird. So they said, or maybe someone else was there and unplugged it after it went in the water. Who knows? But again, Randy's suspicious behavior, as the cops put it, puts him in. He is there. He was there to look at. He's there. And and also they were a little suspicious of him from Gary's death. So now they're like, hmm, the second time he's happened upon a body. Exactly. Yeah. Of someone very close to him. Relative. Yeah. Randy adamantly denies that he has anything to do with this here. Now, one of the detectives said after Gary's death, he's going to be in the hospital. After Gary's death, Barbara was the beneficiary of a decent sum of money. What happened to that money? They said they looked into it and found out that Randy had borrowed a pretty significant sum of money from Barbara. And so the detective said his debt would have been wiped clean with Barbara gone. So they looked at him even more. Now, both Gary and Barbara's detective teams team up because they're like, maybe these are connected. We should probably talk about it. It's rare to have two people murdered. You know, less than three years apart that were married by completely different circumstances. Husband and wife murdered three years apart and not be connected. That's very rare. It's real weird. So they cast a big net. One person keeps popping up in their radar that they can't really lock down. And that's Tina, the daughter. Oh, OK. Tina has had a lot of troubles, obviously, at this point. She's been in and out of jail for check fraud and everything like that. Now, she was evading the like a question. A question, a formal questioning session about Barbara's murder talk to her. Yeah, no, they said she kept rescheduling her interview and eventually just got a lawyer, which someone who's in and out of jail might do. They generally don't like talking to the cops. And they realize they've probably said some shit that's gotten them in trouble before and realize you don't talk to anybody without a fucking lawyer anymore. Once you're in the criminal justice system for a while. But the cop said, why would she have anything to hide? There's which is also a good question. Chuck said the brother. You know, Barbara and Gary's son. When I found out my sister refused interviews that threw up big red flags for me that she may have been involved after my mother passed away. My sister, Tina, did show up at the house for a brief period of time. From what I remember, she was sad but indifferent. OK. OK. They also find out that Tina has been borrowing a lot of money. Oh, since Barbara got the insurance settlement from her husband, she's been in pretty shitty shape financially. She's described as. Kind, patient and generous to a fault with friends and family, Chuck said, to the point where she was broke herself. She loaned money to Randy, but not nearly as much as she has been loaning to Tina. Tina has been the big beneficiary. They said after Gary's death, it appeared Tina was trying to become close to her mother again. It was just purely money from what we found. The cops said Tina started to get closer to her mother and talk to her about getting this life insurance policy for the benefit. Of her children or child at the time of life insurance on mom on mom. In case you die, then at least we're taking care of. During that period, Barbara had given Tina well over one hundred thousand dollars as well. Yeah. To her claim to her daughter, claiming it was to start this business. So, yeah, that's how it went. Now, Tina has been hanging out with a woman named Sky Hansen. OK, Sky. Her and Sky. Met at the old Idaho penitentiary in Boise. Yeah. Sky's a dangerous woman. Anyone with especially with an E on the end. Watch out. And she has that. Now, Sky Hansen was in there for manufacturing drugs. So for cooking meth. And Tina was in there for theft, forgery and car theft. All right. Sounds like a match made in heaven. These both are messy behavior for sure. Absolutely. After they were released, they lived together in Clarkston and Pullman. And Tina's son, Christopher, lived with. Them for part of the time. Little bit of sky here. She's about seven years older than Tina. She is, quote, well known to state police for being involved in drug manufacturing and dealing. Everyone says that. And this is from the detectives. Sky Hansen dominated the relationship. She's a real big heart, James. No, she's a dominant personality type that makes you do what she wants. Yeah, it's she cares about you. That's why they said she liked tropical fish. She owned a 77 Firebird and a 95 Corvette. Fucking A. Yeah. She also. It's wild. She also owned five houses in Whitman County. Five. She bought fixer uppers and rented them out after she repaired them. Wow. OK. Now, after Tina and Sky were released from prison, they started a home renovation business together and asked Barbara for seed money. And that's where the hundred thousand came from. Gary hated Sky. Hated her. Yeah. Hated her. Didn't like Tina hanging around with her. Thought Sky was a bad influence. So there was so much conflict between Gary and Tina that he cut Tina out of the will all the way down to leaving her one dollar in her in his will. One dollar. Fuck you is what that's who you're going to be with. I'm not giving you shit. That will hurt on death day. For sure. Now, Barbara, though, she leaves behind a five hundred thousand dollar life insurance policy. To who? $530,000. With Tina as the sole beneficiary. Imagine if you're Chuck. Yeah. What the fuck am I? What is that? Yeah. I don't get a dime. Right. So, yeah, he got nothing. Now, this was as long, the only way you got the 530 is if the death was either accidental or natural. One of the two. The only way. No murder. No, accidental or natural. Uh-huh. Okay. Tina goes for the money. On the autopsy, there is an, quote, undetermined cause of death. And so the death certificate prevented Tina from getting the insurance payout because it has to be classified as an accident or natural. But she and her attorney managed to get the cause changed to accidental drowning, which gets her the windfall of $530,000. Okay. She immediately signs it over to Skye Hansen. Okay. Whoa. And they disappear. Gone. Like a, like Kaiser Sose. Gone. Rumors are they left the country. And the reason, there's a reason why they think they left. And that is a woman named Anita Steckman comes forward. You've never heard of this woman so far. We're going to talk about a whole different murder now. Okay. She says she thinks her husband may have killed an 89-year-old woman. A woman in 1995 named Dorothy Martin in Pullman, Washington. Yeah. He, because he gave her a very specific and an expensive ring after a robbery. And she's seen that's linked to this old lady that's been dead. So she popped up and said, now, at this point, they were divorced, Anita and her husband. But she said that they'd been living together. Anita told the officers that another woman, Skye Hansen, offered her husband, Bradley Steckman, $1,000 to steal this old lady's diamond ring. Uh-huh. Okay. She also said that before the murder, she went to this woman's home, the old lady's home, with her husband. And tried unsuccessfully to break in through a window. Shit. Anita tells police that her ex-husband worked for Skye Hansen around July 96 when this murder happened. So apparently he had cased places for Skye Hansen. And would work. Who would return later to commit burglaries and robberies of those places. Anita said that Skye Hansen asked him to steal the, it's a white, golden, diamond ring, reportedly worth $30,000. And she offered him $1,000 for it. Okay. So Bradley, she said, her husband, led her to the elderly woman's ground floor apartment. And the two made an unsuccessful attempt to break in through the window. Shortly after that, Anita told police her husband returned home after being out all night. She said he told her he had broken into a manager's unit, stolen some keys and other items, and broken into Dorothy Martin's apartment, the 89-year-old. She told police her husband told her that he had turned the ring over to Skye Hansen. Okay. He also had other items from the apartment besides the ring. Investigators also find a, because at this point when she comes forward, he's already in jail for burglary, her husband. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And they find a cellmate of his that also comes forward who says that Steckman, that this guy told him about it and provides more evidence for the police. Now, this is Bradley Marion Steckman, S-T-E-C-K-M-A-N. He's known throughout the Washington, eastern Washington and northern Idaho area as, quote, the gentleman robber. Ah. The gentleman robber. Yeah. He's got a fucking nick. That's how much he robs. They named him. In 1996, he apparently murdered 89-year-old Dorothy Martin that we find out. Eighty-nine. What the fuck? He'd been living. Over a $30,000 ring? He was hired to do. Apparently, he has a history, huge history of lesser charges and would case and steal, case homes and steal jewelry. Now, Dorothy Martin was found with a towel wrapped around her head in her condominium with a distinctive ring with multiple European-cut diamonds. Totaling more than three carats and other, a few other items were missing and then nothing else was disturbed. The rest of the house was perfect. Literally for a ring. For a ring. Um, she, uh, her husband had died in 1974, she'd been living on her own for, you know, 20 years and, uh, they owned a auto service shop that her son ran, uh, but she was found dead in her military hill condominium, July 21st, 1996 autopsy results indicate that she died of asphyxiation. But she was in good health at 89. Wow. Um, the weird thing is too, they, several items taken, including, uh, from the manager's apartment a few feet away. They, this keys were stolen there. Um, and they were trying to figure out who did this for these three years, basically. Uh, but they, they also have a Polaroid camera and a radio that were also taken from there were found among Bradley Steckman's things. Whoops. So he had that. Uh, and, uh, she was discovered in a Martin was discovered in a nightgown with a Terry cloth towel wrapped around her head. Uh, the investigation took more than four years as we find out later as it goes on. Um, now leads in the case were first slim. So the Martin family put up a $20,000 reward, but that offer ended in 1998, which I didn't know there was, I didn't know there was expiration dates on rewards for dead. They're open-ended usually, aren't they? I would assume. '98 you go, we don't care anymore. And we're pulling the, who does that? That's the weirdest thing ever. We pulled the money. We've invested it. We put it somewhere else. They said it was well over three years after the murder, before a tip came in. So apparently sky Hansen had done some, done some carpentry jobs for Dorothy Martin. That's how she knew she had the ring. They said police found her name in Dorothy Martin's address book at the time of the killing, but didn't have anything to. Connect. They just called everybody in the address book and she just said, yeah, I did some work for her and they were like, oh, all right. And that was that, um, they learned that Bradley Stechman though, had ties to sky Hansen and Tina Loche. Now they want to talk to sky and Tina again after they talked to Bradley, but they can't find them because they've disappeared. Yup. Uh, before Hansen disappeared, uh, she told investigators that Ma Martin hired her to install closet organizers. At the condo and refinish a table. So Hansen said that she was familiar with Hansen's with Martin's residents and security measures. Um, so they'd like to talk to her. Sure. Obviously, um, by the way, Stechman's going to admit to this Bradley Stechman, this murder, he went in there just to rob her, but she put up a fight and he struggled with her and he had to fucking stuff. He had to put a pillow over her face and suffocate her because he couldn't physically control an 89 year old woman. I couldn't keep that old lady at bay to get this goddamn ring. Christ. Oh, but you have to wrestle it off her finger for fuck's sake. Pull it from her bony finger. That's awful. Imagine your life is worth 30 grand. That's so crazy. Barely a Doug grand to the guy who did it. Right. You know? So while officers pursued Stechman clues kept coming in, uh, found among Bradley, Stechman's belongings were a bent butter knife used to attempt to break into Martin's home, which is what? The wife told them they used before that. Um, and also information from a, a jeweler who thinks he's seen the diamonds from Martin's ring. He said that sky Hanson brought him a sack of loose, loose stones to be appraised in 1996, right after the murders. And the gems included some European cut diamonds that the jeweler thought resembled those in the picture of Martin's ring. Yeah. How many of those are in Pullman, Washington? Um, now a suspect, this is Bradley. He decides to strike a deal here. And part of that deal is he is going to tell the cops what he knows about sky and Tina. Oh, cause he worked for their renovation company. Um, and obviously did their bidding. Um, the cops said Stechman was basically sky Hanson's thug and that he told police that he had, she had requested he break into the house, steal the ring and, uh, that she had seen him. Um, and that she had seen while working there. Okay. So sky and, and, and, uh, Tina fall off the face of the earth with Christopher, they took the kid with them. They took the kid. Now police are concerned. They say they're concerned for Christopher's welfare, but also they want to, you know, get them in there in the, in the box and interrogate them. So they said they threw all the resources into finding them, including monitoring border crossings and plane flights, but came up with nothing. You can't find a kid, a kid and two ladies can't find them. So Brad is charged with robbery and first degree murder first off here. Um, but they, he's in jail and they have to charge him now cause he was soon to be released on parole. So they had to rearrest him and charge him. Um, so 2001, he, the, the Dorothy Martin's family agrees to let them do a deal. And they said something like this, we wouldn't have even presented had the family not been okay with it. He pleads guilty to second degree murder. Yeah. During a robbery and he's sentenced to you, sir, may fuck off 18 years in prison. for that. Oh, he's lucky. Which seems light. That's very light for second degree. Seems like the judge said, well, 89, how much time she have left? That's odd, but that seems like that's what they said. I don't know one other calculation. 35 at this point. Chance for sure. 32 maybe at that point that he pled. So he goes to prison for the murder of Dorothy Martin. Once again, the Loesch family, they still have no answers. Okay. 2003, he comes forward and he's got more to say. He says, I killed Barbara Loesch. Oh yeah. Why did you do that? Well, money. They were supposed to pay him part of the insurance. And by the way, I understand that part. Why did he come forward? They stuck him and never paid him. Oh, that'll do it. Yep. You're supposed to get 10 grand and they didn't, they stiffed him. He says, okay, Tina and Skye hired him to carry out the murder and make it look like an accident. They claimed they were going to give him $10,000. He said that he had an accomplice. We don't know who salt the water in the hot tub first to increase its conductivity. This is diabolical. Yeah. Okay. He said that he told the police that he lured Barbara, to the hot tub to watch television. He was there with Tina. He said he lured her in to watch television. He stuck a pencil in the back of the set to bypass the circuit breaker shit, the electrocution safeguards that are in all electronics. Yeah. He put a pencil in there to block it off, but wouldn't that, he knew what, he knew how to do that. Yeah. It worked. So, I mean, it works crazy. The house didn't have the safeguard. Yeah. You would imagine. Well, that's the thing. It doesn't, that's not what kills her. They said that just, it stuns her basically. Oh. So, they said that he did that to quote, Tim plugged the extension cord in or Tina plugged the extension cord in while I set the TV on the hot tub is what he said. He said he pushed the TV in, the electric shock stunned her and knocked her sort of unconscious, but didn't kill her. Then they rolled her over on her stomach and Tina held her. Her head underwater until she drowned. He said, that is fucked up. That is fucking diabolical plan. All this out ahead. Wow. Um, they said, then the detective said he must have unplugged that TV. So Tina could go ahead and finish what she started. So the water wouldn't be dangerous. Um, once that plan had been carried out, they said he, Tina held her underwater for about two minutes. And he said, quote, Tina fell apart on the way back home. She was crying and vomiting. Well, yeah, you just murdered somebody. I was, that's showing some form of humanness at least. Jeez. At least she wasn't like your mother, your mother. Who's been nice to you, by the way, hasn't been shitty to you. So then Hanson, Sky Hanson drove to post falls to make sure things have been done right. Cause she's in charge. She drove to the house to take a look at the scene, make sure she was dead, make sure everything was the way it was supposed to be. And then left. This is Ashley from the almost famous podcast. You ever notice, you and your spouse keep saying we need to get away, but you never actually plan anything. There are hundreds of hotel resorts, pools and spas and private beaches that you can enjoy. You can spend the day at a luxury resort pool, spa massage without booking an overnight stay. So just go to resortpass.com. Choose your resort. Choose your day. Once you post your vacation, people are going to ask where you are. Go to resortpass.com slash almost famous and use the promo code almost famous to get $20 off when you spend a hundred dollars. That's code almost famous at resortpass.com slash almost famous. Now Brad has even more shit to talk about. He said, not only did I kill Barbara, I was asked to follow Gary and pinpoint locations on his paper route. That would be the best spot to murder him. Sky Hansen hired me to do that. Wow. He said, but he quote swears he didn't fire the shot. He said, I wasn't even there. I told them the spot to go. I followed him for a couple of days, just knew where he went, told them where to go. Female Yeah. On the cigarettes. Yeah. Put two and two together with that. So this sky is crazy. Sky is a bad, bad bitch, man. She's rough. Um, so they said they've, they keep visiting, uh, Stechman in prison and they said, he, you know, he confessed, he's been given more details. And, uh, they said, quote, this is a cop. This wasn't unexpected. They have summarized their evidence. We will review and make sure that in a week or two, whether to file charges and to file and what to file. They said, people, on the scene that day, meaning Barbara's murder, we were not comfortable with the layout of the crime scene since day one post falls does not get a lot of homicides, but this one was screaming. The more we looked and the more we deciphered, the more it was not adding up. That's why we never let up on it. And then the one detective said, Brad never did see the 10,000. I think that's why he cooperated. I think, I think he felt it was probably in his best interest to come forward and tell his side. I think he realized that we in the County, we're not going to give up. Now, he didn't, you were never going to catch him. This was going to be unsolved to this day, right? You got a guy that please participated in three murders and has a thousand dollars net to show for it. He's pissed. He's 18 years. And he's sitting in jail for 18 years with nothing on his books. Yeah. He's pissed. They said the combination of the husband's murder and more or less some gut feelings. I always had suspected that this was not an accident and this was not a suicide. It's quite the case. I'm not satisfied. We have the whole story at this point. Oh, and you don't trust me. It gets weirder. Okay. You're terrible. Now they can't arrest the ladies. Number one, because they can't fucking find them. They have no idea where they are. And number two, Brad's a co-conspirator with no other corroboration. So he would not be allowed to testify against them in court. So they've got nothing. They got who gots at this point. They have nothing. Then 2004, the lead detective said in the newspaper, he believes Tina's dead. He believes she's dead. He said he wonders if, you know, her son Christopher is also dead. Yeah. Is he dead, too? He said he's scouring national databases for missing and exploited children to try to find some trace of Christopher and has placed Tina's dental records on a national crime computer, hoping if there's some Jane Doe somewhere out there, it may be matched as her. So they're already looking for dental records. Now, Chuck hears about all this. They tell the family, obviously. And Chuck said, holy fuck. He said the last time I saw my sister was at my mother's funeral. He said I had no idea she was involved in any of this. And he said she's one hell of an actress. I'll say that much for really. Yeah. He hasn't seen Christopher, he said, since he was maybe two years old. He hasn't seen him in years and years. He said Tina was always mixed up with the wrong crowd, always causing trouble. Oh, this is beyond causing trouble. Yeah. So 2004, they make a deal with Stechman to plead guilty for the Barbara murder. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so he is going to be sentenced here. It's a plea bargain. And they said the state has nothing to solve the homicide. And without him coming forward, they have nothing. So they had to do this deal. Basically, they give him you, sir, may fuck off life in prison with possible parole after 15 years. So now that's 33. It's to run concurrently with the other sentence. So still, it goes goes back to the beginning it's retroactive we'll find out uh he's eligible for parole for everything in 2016 16 that's fucking crazy um anyway uh there's reactions here uh laura loche who's randy's wife said we're ecstatic this is closure for part of it we knew that the this in the back of our minds that she was murdered but it wasn't in your face like it was with gary uh they said they've reopened the investigation into the gary loche killing but it's in limbo as they were hammering out this other plea bargain they got a lot to do 2006 they reopened barbara's case to try to find tina and sky okay they name them as persons of interest officially um yeah so they say they're any way to get the money back from them not if it's gone they can't even find them never mind the money right um so he said that uh at one time he said he was going to kill gary loche and he said he was going to kill gary loche and he said he was going to kill gary loche and he said he was going to kill gary loche and he said he was going to kill gary loche and he said he was going to kill gary loche and he thought that tina and christopher were dead but he said that he's not sure now and he said that the post falls police were trying to keep the case quiet in hopes they wouldn't go deeper into hiding he said that to a newspaper reporter who put that in the newspaper which is very smart media please don't say anything about this we're trying to keep something quiet everybody good with that here um so yeah they tried the u.s marshal service and they said the key to this case are these two here tina and they said the key to this case are these two here tina and the last seen loading an rv in seattle in the last seen loading an rv in seattle in the last seen loading an rv in seattle in october 99. they got an rv now the son october 99. they got an rv now the son christopher they find out that christopher was living with other people from 99 to 2000 he was living with um uh a uh um a spokane defense attorney named julie twyford uh apparently and he was enrolled in spokane's shiloh hills elementary school under the name christopher robinson like winnie the pooh or something again why did people cannot come up with shit remember bill longton from the maternal instinct robin sin son yeah they said then he just didn't show up for school one day and his transcripts have never been forwarded wow now they went and interviewed steve cassell who was apparently i believe living with the lawyer that one of the people watching christopher and uh he was charged on of charges of illegal money transactions and he said he doesn't know where he is either and uh he doesn't know he said that they didn't they don't know anything uh twyford by the way had represented the south hill rapist kevin co so that's why he was famous now the reason why cassell got in trouble he was trying to sell sky's houses so he apparently has some connection with these people but says he doesn't know where they are or but if you sell the homes then where does the money go dickhead that's the point exactly um authorities say twyford and castle deny knowing anything about the boy or the women's whereabouts but hansen's corvette is in their garage so they had one of the people who were in the car and they were they had one of their sons and one of their corvettes which is like a child if to a childless person and power of attorney to sell property for them where the fuck are they where are they um they won't say and they have no reason to compare no way to compel them to tell them basically um january 2008 case is still active they're still looking for these women here october 2008 they say fuck it we need help and they said we hit a dead end and we needed help and they said without they had to issue arrest warrants for them at this point they said without the warrants we couldn't get help from the federal government and more importantly america's most wanted wouldn't touch the case and they really wanted to put it out there to america's most wanted we need fucking walsh need him or not it was somebody else by then maybe i don't know either way 2008 i think it's still walsh probably either way though they basically think that they've tried everything the marshals the fbi no one can find these people so maybe just somebody in a 7-eleven will run into them and whatever now america's most wanted um they interview the police and they you know have a big you know episode on the whole thing it's on november 15 2008 they were on a segment it's i believe the eight o'clock or 8 30 time slot okay um so three hours later after the segment airs 11 30 p.m on november 15th a motorist comes in and says i don't know what to do with you comes across a white dodge durango on a road northwest of tucson arizona oh on the side of the road okay um so inside the car they call the cops just to say there's a car on the side of the road inside the car they find the bodies of tina and sky dead what dead both with gunshot wounds tina holding a nine millimeter murder suicide murder fucking suicide they said three hours after the case was aired on america's most wanted they were found dead in the desert of tucson arizona the detective unbelievable they said that the authorities arrived at the site they found the bodies and a suicide an eight page suicide note expressing regret over the crime and sky left a will as well um they discovered gunshot wounds to the head that were inflicted by the nine millimeter found in the vehicle near team's hand um that they you know yeah so they were um they were trying to in the letter that tina was alleged to have been involved in the killing of her father she said that she had nothing to do with it okay they said obviously this was a suicide pact clearly um the eerie weird thing they denied they killed barbara they denied everything but they said they can't go back to prison basically and they had been telling people they know that they weren't going back to prison america's most wanted aired and they went we're going back to prison and they got in the car and went out and shot themselves nowhere in the suicide note do they mention that tina would now be 17 years old and still has not been seen no one knows where he is so according to uh with a detective who talked to somebody they know tina and sky saw a commercial for america's most wanted and told their friend they'd rather die than go back to prison got in the durango and took off hansen had started another home improvement business but it was unlicensed and didn't pay taxes they hadn't changed their names legally but were known in tucson by different names tina was and was katie yeah so they said that um the neighbors in tucson told the investigators that christopher had been living with his mother in 2002 but she told them she sent him to live with his father because he was too much to handle we don't even know who his father is and neither do the police so they don't know they were searching they said that in spokane is where he was sent but they don't know anything so they're looking obviously they were looking to talk to the to twyford and castle the people who used to have christopher to find out maybe if they know where he is uh but they said they have not seen the boy for many many years so police arrive at sky and tina's house in tucson in tucson it's under renovation and all of their belongings are boxed up in the garage great like they were about to make a run for it you already boxed them for us perfect but the weird thing is underneath the boxes they found hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of dryer sheets why would you do that the scent of a body something they said what it meant to me was they were trying to mask an odor the detective said they dug up the area there were hits by cadaver dogs but no remains were found what they had that fucking kid buried in that garage for a long time and then a long time okay um so the detective said what happened to christopher to this day we don't know he just vanished we don't know if we've potentially found another homicide in this case he may they may i when i picked this case it was about a lady floating in a hot tub and then i'm like what the fuck all these things are coming out and i'm like jesus christ this is crazy what'd they do with christopher we don't know they said they moved him right they had to have finding him as our top priority information we have so far is that he was in the tucson area in late 99 he was sent to live with his father about a year after that because of the boy exhibiting behavioral problems they don't know his father's identity um yeah no record of the women changing their last names to avoid law enforcement they just didn't do anything under their names um so they called the pima county sheriff called idaho and they said the idaho police said we got a call that night from the pima county sheriff's office they said i think we may have found your girls well we definitely did yeah um the funny thing is the lead detective from idaho said when i got the call from tucson i was skeptical of what there's no way i'm gonna be able to find him i'm gonna be able to find him i'm gonna dead what they're not them what are you talking about he said it was an april 1st otherwise why why why would you make this up on november 15th he said it had been so difficult to find them over the years that i didn't think it's possible if i can't find them they must have vaporized because i'm the best i'm the best i'm the same guy who said the hardest thing about this is finding out who did it wow um he said once we determined it was them i had a lot of questions well you're not gonna get any answer no one's gonna answer no they're not talking right now unfortunately they're not taking questions um he said that the loach family called it a relief and the detective said they won't have to keep looking over their shoulders and wondering if these two might be coming back for any of them um by the way were there any actual tips from america's most wanted like did this matter yeah because if there was no tips then they did this for nothing um they had over 50 tips from all over the country one pointed to arizona is that right so they might have been busted by that one tip or it might have just been some horseshit coincidence and they wouldn't even have gotten trouble for it so may have been someone from flagstaff thinking they saw somebody who exactly 2011 chuck hopes that the deadly sin tv show can help solve his dad's murder i think we solved his dad's murder i think not we but yeah yeah i think it's been so they have dna and they have a couple of bodies he could have checked yeah they have a guy admitting to what he did female dna we could put it together what happened here probably um but he said chuck said who exactly was part of it uh who was responsible for my father's death and where is christopher that's a good question that's a good question um he said uh the lead detective said we have scoured the earth for him and not found any leads to where he may be it's unbelievable yeah they don't they have no idea where he may be scoured the earth for him they said so they said it would be a big sigh of relief to find out exactly what happened um uh now this is how deadly sins executive producer described the story quote it's a fascinating story of how sinister people can be every man woman and child are guilty of sin but this show takes a look at what happens when sin becomes deadly good lord good god see this is why we make a comedy show about this because that that if we said that horrible because that's the alternative every man woman and child are guilty of sin we want to hear that from us no you don't every child's guilty of sin the fuck out of here kind of life is that to live jesus that's what you're living how you're living um december 12 2012 bradley dies he's dead bradley's fucking dead died at the valley hospital medical center while serving a sentence four years short of parole oh take that sir take that um 2020 where the fuck is christopher what is happening yep the detective said that he and other members of the department think about chris often they said if he's still alive he'd be 30 years old by this point um the one detective said i hope so i hope christopher's alive and off living his life somewhere but i have my doubts and christopher chuck also said quote there might be a slight possibility he's in another country i have a tendency to believe he's in belize my sister and her girlfriends had connections there oh really they fucking killed that boy and he was an inconvenience and they killed him you could certainly tell your family that like when the dog dies but uh yeah doggy heaven dad belize is doggy heaven for this kid that's all it is 13 year old yeah as of 2024 still nobody found christopher gone i mean it's never found if you don't see a kid a 34 year old he's probably not coming around ever again so they did an episode of killer couples and they did an episode of deadly sins called greed yeah i guess that was the deadly sin they were talking about barbara and gary are buried at the evergreen cemetery in post falls dorothy is buried in the moscow senate cemetery in lata county lata county idaho um and tina was cremated oh christopher was buried in a garage and then moved to the desert probably where he was eaten by animals i would assume that's my guess i'm not sure so fucked up so that is how fucked of a case is this how terrible of a person do you got to be to value your mother's life at 530 grand and your father's with nothing nothing he pissed you off because you don't like because sky was mad at him and then your son you got nothing out of your mother this guy killed an old and an old lady they i mean the whole thing this is a horrible what do we get four at least one to at least three and possibly four murders out of this case this is insane so anyway if you like this show or anything about it please get on whatever app you're on give us five stars it helps a ton netflix thumbs up it helps so much so thank you if you if you enjoy what you're here and just do that don't do meth or kill your parents or children or anybody else and so uh yeah do that definitely head over to shut up and give me murder.com tickets for live shows you're gonna find there oh baby september the 18th paps theater milwaukee those are almost gone so get your tickets right now if you want to go see that the next night september 19th we're in minneapolis at the state theater can't wait for that one so get in there and get your tickets for that and later on in the year in october we're in dallas san jose sacramento november terrytown in boston so come out and see us come to a show shut up and give me murder.com also all the merch is there and everything like that you can also definitely follow on social media at small town murder on instagram at small town pod on facebook so get in there and do that you can get yourself patreon which is smalltown murder on instagram at we recommend the most patreon.com slash crime in sports that is where you get by the way that's the name of our other show that you should listen to because it's really good but anyway that is where you get all the bonus material anybody five dollars a month or above you get everything we put out everything including as soon as you subscribe you get about 400 back bonus episodes you've never heard before immediately upon subscription new ones every other week one crime and sports one small town murder and you get goddamn all of it this week we're going to talk about for patreon crime and sports kirby puckett we're going to talk about a beloved baseball player who did some or allegedly did some non-loved things we're told uh we're told small town murder maternal instinct crazy goddamn story the netflix documentary and of course we talk about the body cam footage and everything else and holy shit is that a crazy story a woman cut a lady's baby out and tried to pretend it was hers so we'll talk about that patreon.com slash crime in sports and on top of that you get everything we put out all three shows ad free with your patreon wow and on top of that just never ends here on top of that you also get a shout out at the end of the regular show so anyway keep coming and seeing us here uh check it out if you want to follow us on social media of course shut up and give me murder.com is a place to do that and everything do that keep coming back and until next week everybody it's been our pleasure bye you