Family Flowers Only with Susan Moylan

Hi there. Just a quick word from me before we get into today's episode, I am hosting a full one day grief retreat in Quark on September the 30th and tickets are available right now on the website grifarland.com. The day is a day to look after yourself, to find out with a space if you need some support and help with your grief and with your loss. We have experts on the panel we have psychologists, we have people sharing their real story of loss, we do journaling, meditations. It's just a really beautiful day to be around others who get it. So if it is something that you're interested in head over to the website grifarland.com and tickets are available right now. On today's episode of Family Flowers Only, I talk to Susan Moilin. Susan is a counsellor and CEO of the Stephen Moilin Foundation. In 2003, Susan was on holidays with her husband Sean and their children when Sean tragically died in his sleep with a virus in the brain at the age of 43. Sadly the tragedy didn't in there when Susan's beloved son Stephen died tragically in Spain at the young age of 30. We spoke about the nightmare of losing a loved one abroad, the horrific moment when a mother loses her child, the huge effect loss has on a family and how her family now work to mind the kids through their inspiring work through their foundation. I hope you enjoy this conversation. Hi Susan, how are you? We've been talking already, but we pretend we haven't. We're settling in. Susan, thank you so much for coming today to talk to me. It's not easy to come and talk about difficult conversations, but as I say, I always like to just have a chat, have a conversation and maybe just hear a little bit about your loved one. So I know today you're going to talk about your lovely husband Sean and your son Stephen. Obviously both huge parts of your life, but as you said, we'll go back, we'll go back down memory lane. And I've just heard that your husband Sean was originally from Galway, which is where I live. I'm from Wisconsin now, I won't claim, but I live and go along on time. So tell me about Sean, where did you guys meet? We met in the Croft and Reporter Hotel. It was a nightclub called Shanks. Okay. So everybody used to go down there, but they can. Yeah. That's where it was. And in fact, my older brothers and sisters have met there, what turned up, married couples like in Shanks, isn't that funny? Wow. Yeah. It was the place to go. So Shabanake wasn't where love stories began. So tell me about Sean, who spoke to who first? Or did you see him before he saw you or what way to play out? I had heard a lot about him. You know, actually a next boyfriend, mine used to leave me to the bus stop outside. Sean's husband used to say, "Oh, Sean Moilick comes out here now." Yeah, and I was like, "Who's he?" And he actually said to me, "If you have not met him, you haven't lived." Oh, wow. Yeah. So kind of gave me an interest. Yeah, for sure. So then we were in Shanks and at that time, it was like the dance floor was down in an old swimming pool. So you walked down the steps into. Oh, cool. Yeah. It was a great idea. But there were three guys dancing to the tree degrees. And there was Dan, there was Tom, and there was Sean. And my pal said, "Do you remember you were asking me about Sean Moilick?" And I said, "Yeah, she says that's him and the man." And so what did you think? Yeah, I thought he was fun. And then there was a request played from my birthday and a request played for Sean's birthday. So our birthdays were the same day. You're joking. Wow. Yeah, we're both born on the 9th of December. So he asked me up to dance. And I dented his cowboy boots. Yeah, so. And that's when it all began. Oh, wow, lovely. Yeah. So you started dating obviously, and was it long before you decided to get married? Two and a half years. Oh, wow. Okay. You're obviously quite young at the time, were you? I was 19 when I got married. Wow. We bought a house in town and Sean was a guard. He was in the bride-haw. Okay, so it was handy. So tell me about Sean's character. What was he, was he quiet? Was he cheeky-tappy, funny? What sort of a guy was he? Absolutely, hilarious. Was he? Yeah. Oh, wow. So if you're at with Sean, you can home with Paine, your jaw from laughing. Okay, brilliant. But, yeah, he was just great, quick. Yeah, so funny, so, so funny. Wow. And he was like a magnet for people. You know, like he never. Well, he was a. He had a great bunch of lads. He played for Balimon Keckens. Okay. And that team was just like, they were just brilliant, brilliant fun. And we used to go to the Oshban in Glasgow and that's where the whole team met, you know, so I saw a lot of girlfriends come and go and my dime. The wags, yes. And yeah, it was just, it was just social city. It was brilliant. Yeah, brilliant. A great time. A great time. Yeah. Was it the 80s? A once? Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Laura was born in 81. So tell me, yes, so you guys went on to have children and a family, so yeah, who was first? Laura. Laura. Yeah. So Laura was first and then two years and two months later, I had a mum. And then five years later, I had Carolan and 13 months. After having Carolan, I had Stephen. Wow. Yeah. So you had your four babies I had. Wow. And cheesy health all day. Oh, it was just fabulous. We moved from town up to and Wille Park close. So that was like moving into the area where all our friends were. So that was another holiday. Okay. Yeah. So nice to be around people that you knew. Supported people and things like that, yeah. Yeah. It was brilliant. So tell me, yes, it was life was good for you guys. It was brilliant. Yeah. And do you like to take your holidays and things like that as well? Yes. So we used to go to France to a place called Antib, it's near between Nice and Shuaung Lapan. And we went there for 11 years for the month of August. Right. I think that you live. We went away. We always brought the kids away for a month. And it was like heaven. Wow. Absolutely. We had so much fun. I can imagine. Yeah. It was just brilliant. And of course, we never went away in our own. There were always pals who'd say, I'm coming away. I'm going to be there for your middle two weeks or I'm going to be there for the last two weeks. Okay. Yeah. So we always had company which was fantastic. Yeah. You know, just made it better. I mean. And all the children, like they weren't cousins, but they were like, rare like cousins, if you know. Yeah. Yeah. They were so close. Yeah. Yeah. It was brilliant. Wow. I had it at all. I had it all. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Shuaung was a healthy man. You know, for more to be life. Yeah. Okay. The picture helped. Right. I was in the gym always looking after himself. I'll get on a bike and go sight them from miles. And yeah, he was a very, very healthy young man. And we were in, we were on holidays and the couple that used to hire the mobiles, we were very friendly with them. And because we had driven one year, they said, look, it didn't take years long to get them the harps. So stay another night. And we were like, no, everything is packed up. And they said, just stay. Just put your head down. That mobile over there. So I didn't plug in. You know, the mosquito thing. Yeah. So repelling thing. Yeah. Yeah. And that night, Shuaung was bitten at his temple by mosquito. Just here on this temple. And the next day we got up, we drove to the harb. We came home about two days after that. Sean's eyesight began to go like he said, he described it as, do you know, I don't know if you'll remember the black of my films when the the driver is supposed to be like, yes, charge and the traffic is going like this and front of him. He described his vision was like that. So that was the beginning of the health journey. So we went to, he went into the eye near and he didn't like you. So when you get into the doctor, he asked for a private appointment and that was from then on. That doctor looked after Sean. So he had so many tests. You know, they put cameras down his veins and arteries and I was like, can't be cancer because you did an MRI and he said I'm looking for grit now. So when he told me Sean wouldn't be able to move his little finger, we did try. When he came home, I was like, "Just try, I moved your little finger." He couldn't, he was so sore from the tests, but they couldn't find anything and they were very shunned then to donor-castic and neurologist. And he tried all the tests. He couldn't find out who was going on. So Sean's vision, they blasted him with steroids and his vision came back. But then he got another bell's posy. You're face coming through, so he had that for a while and they blasted that with steroids. And then his swallow went. So he couldn't eat shunned. He was like, "Oh, you know, don't feed the kids with me." And I was like, "Shunned, that's how you eat that." And we just stayed together because the kitchen table was so important. We had Sean and Susan, two girls, two boys, that's the way it was. And I didn't want to break that. So he used to eat a bit and then he wouldn't be well and then he'd be back again. And the kids got used to it. They never commented on it. It was just that out there it was. So he eventually got his swallow back and then he shamed guard and he was a ministerial driver before that. Or sometimes in between he would go to Port Leach and Nescoord and he rang me and he said, "I can't work my legs." So they were like, if he went to sit down he'd nearly hit his head with his knee. And I drove in and got him then. That was confusing because most of the nerve endings in the brain that were affected would have been at the temple area, but this was back at the occipital. It was like, "Oh God, that's a bit far away than your ulgest was confused over that." And then on Christmas Eve I remember one of the years he ended up in hospital and we all had Christmas in the matter. It was the year that the children were getting a trip to Liverpool for Steven's Day or the day after. So Sean got out of hospital and brought them to Liverpool with a pile of this. But he had to go straight back into hospital when he came back. So still no diagnosis. Right. So this is going on for a period of how long? Seven years. Seven years. Just living with a supposed chronic condition and no idea what was going on. And how was that for you as a family for both Sean and you at the time, like having no concrete evidence as to what was wrong? Not evidence, but no diagnosis. No diagnosis. No diagnosis. Yeah, it was really hard. Yeah. Because Sean would say, "Don't tell anybody I'm sick." Yeah. "Don't say I'm not sick. I've got tested for everything. I know I don't have cancer." Yeah. You might be sick, but I'm not. So yeah, very proud. You have a week off. So the week off was all holistic care. He attended a Dr. Wu Malahite. He really brought me up. I think that man kept Sean alive. Right. Yeah. And so in 2003, I got a phone call from Sean was trying to marry Cochland at the time. I met Tony Star. And she rang me and she said, "Susan Sean, it's not well. You need to come up." So I drove to Tony Gal. He was in Latter-Cinny. Okay. And I stayed with him for a week. But we were due to go on our annual holiday. To like? Yeah, three weeks time. So stayed with him for a week. And they had him on oxygen. But he had expixiated. And then he came back. And so he was really ill. But by the time he left, he was getting oxygen. It was his lungs. That were, you know, the signal wasn't going to the lungs from the brain. So his breathing was labored. And so they put him on oxygen for a week. And he thought, "My God, I think I can play football again. I feel so good." So I said, "Masjana, I don't want us to go anywhere until the doctor says you can go." So he said, "Okay." And we were driving down Doris' at the street to the doctor's rooms where an Echelist street. And he said to me, "I just want to say this to you." And I said, "What's that?" He said, "I'm never going to hospital again. Ever. I'm done." So I said, "Okay." So we went in to the doctor and he gave me a thorough check. And he said, "I think you're good to go." So I said, "Can we make an appointment?" Or we could buy an ignoring everything he said on the way in. So that was fine. And off we went on the holiday on the third of July. And on the 17th of July, we had a great day. We were singing all our friends. We were around our friends, mobile. They were entertaining most of the day. We'd have different days to go to different people and Sean sang his heart out. And I said, "Please don't sing because you're using your oxygen." And he said, "I want to sing." So my daughter, Laura, was in Spain working at the time and my son, Aiman, was in a glanta Georgia. He was on a scholarship. And both of them arrived in the South France that day on the 17th. And I had Caroline and Stephen with me. There were 15 and 14. And Caroline's friend had come with us for the holiday. So Caroline's friend was a little bit homesick. So she was like, "Oh, I think I'll just go back to our place." So I didn't want her to go back and around. So I left and I went back with them. And I think it was the first time in my married life I was ever asleep when Sean came in. Wow. Yeah. I woke up to him trying his best to breathe. The noise was unbelievable. And I knew we were in trouble. And I sent the children to call for an ambulance and to shout out like it was about maybe two o'clock in the morning at this time. Shout out as anybody got oxygen. So they ran everywhere looking for this and Sean took his last breath. So I was doing a CPR for about 20 minutes, you know, but I knew he was gone. Wow. Yeah. So then the ambulance arrived and everybody, of course, was outside praying. And the ambulance went in and I was like, you know, they were afraid. I just knew that it was open because it can't breathe. And they went into him and then they called me in and then they called me and the children in and told us, yeah. The ambulance told you. Yeah, but there was a guy, a security guy for the site and he was Irish. So he came in as well. Yeah. And he was like, to translate. Yeah. Oh my God. Oh, devastating. Yeah. Yeah. I remember it wasn't until the next day I noticed Carol Ann's feet were brushed. She was after running around so much on the stone. Like she had no soul on her feet. The kids were absolutely devastated. Yeah. What do you do with that? As a mom, as a wife, you're not home. You're in broad in a different country. Yeah. Yeah. So that night, what did you do? Where did you go? People look after you. Oh, God, yeah. Yeah. So, my sister and my brother arrived. My best friend Sandra arrived in the airport, but I was actually getting on the plane when she arrived. So everybody came from everywhere. And them, of course, Sean having the job that he had, you know, when they, we could onto Interpol and the guy who came down to us from Paris, trained with Sean, temper more. Wow. Yeah. So he was like, to me, I don't know how tall he is. But to me, he was like a big angel. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. He came everywhere with me. It's incredible the people that show up in those moments that you kind of never forget. No. Yeah. Yeah. So, they arranged everything and we were on the plane home with Sean the following day. Wow. The following day. Oh, my God. incredible. Can you even remember, I imagine that you would have been in total autopilot mode, you know, packing up, doing the basics, getting the kids on. My sister's sailing and Conner, my youngest, but they arrived so like they did everything. Okay, you just got on the line. I can't really remember if I packed anything, but I do remember saying the place has to be spotless when you leave it. I was still doing the rules, you know. I'm sure they wouldn't have minded it for it. Isn't it funny? Yeah, I said no, that's what we do, you know, like make sure it's we always made sure that it was spotless when we entered the back. So I wanted that to be, that was important to me. So you arrived back to Dublin. Yeah, after your husband's sitting, singing the day before. Yeah, and now you're back with your husband on the flight, but he's no longer alive. That's it. And when we cut on the plane, I don't know, I was a winter dresser, I traveled all over the world. I never heard music really loud on the plane. You know when you're getting on, there might be the kind of music. This music was belailing. Oh my god. And it was, you know, the song, you got to be strong, got to be good, you got to be strong, you got to stick together. Yeah, that was playing. You're joking. Oh my god. Really loud. And it resonates with us. And actually, the 18th of July was shown 20th anniversary. And we went for a meal. And that music was playing. I've just gone to say, don't tell me that song was playing. Camelands, that's your house. Yeah. Oh my god. So yeah, that's fine. Yeah, absolutely. Wow. That is absolutely powerful. Yeah. So you could return home. And do you have a funeral straight away? Yeah. Yeah. So did they do an autopsy? Yeah. Okay. In France? No. Well, they know they didn't do an autopsy in France. But when I phoned the neurologist and he asked because they couldn't diagnose until post-mortem. And I didn't want anybody to touch Sean, but I have four children looking at me. And I was like, I don't know what it is. Or if it's something I was convinced it was the mosquito bite that started this. And actually that night when he was singing, he said, oh my god, I'm bitten again. Right on the very spot. And the ambulance men did say that it was, you know, anaphylactic shock. Yeah, it was an allergic reaction that he took. But Sean died of primary angitis of the central nervous system. So that's why it was affecting, you know, the way the brain is like a piece of mission, then the nerve endings coming down. So it was hopping from one nerve ending to another. But it started with the mosquito bite and it ended with the mosquito bite. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So tragic. Yeah. So senseless almost. Yeah. It's not something that you'd ever dream would happen to someone you love. No. You know, yeah. I'm sure you had a lot of anger. Did you have anger after that? No, no. I wasn't angry. Okay. You know, because I knew, like I used to sleep with my two hands on Sean's lungs on his back praying. I knew that like what happened that night was the signal to tell him to breathe stopped. Oh my god. Yeah. So I knew we weren't going to grow old together. I had, I had been to Sean's funeral a thousand times. I had, yeah, my dreams. So you'd feel like you would prepare it in some ways? So consciously maybe for this? Well, when somebody goes from being a hundred percent healthy and fit and in the gym and on his bike to going to work and coming home to recuperate for a week. I like Sean's health had gone downhill and like he had been hit with so many different symptoms that I couldn't see an end to it and they couldn't find out what it was and we knew what it wasn't. I didn't know what it was. So I was like, how are we going to get through? Now sometimes you can be really positive but like when you're wearing a family and like the children aren't aware of the like the seriousness of the illness. You know, like we were still going down to the upper college playing basketball with kids and he'd have to go to bed or at home. You know, so we just did what we had to do and but we were still so together and so happy and you know he was amazing. Yeah, tough guy. He was amazing to do what he did. Yeah. What was it like after that then? You know, I suppose just a lot of people have listened to this, will relate to being a mom with a family, having to cope with your own grief and devastation and heartbreak and then have four children that you need to sort of support in some ways. Was that hard? It's the hardest thing you could ever do. Yeah. Yeah. It is because you're broken. Everything is broken. Nothing is the same. You know, I hung on his every word. So nothing was the same but I am resilient, really resilient and I had four people that Sean and I had dreams for each one of them. Now they didn't go down that road because he was very much into study and college and he'd ring me from wherever he was and say you know, he's Steven's study. As Aemon's study and I'd say yes, yes, can I talk to him and I'd have to open the and because they you know they had to do the week he was home so I know he knows now and Laura was in college. Aemon was in America. He was the captain of the college team and in fact he had won the old stars. You know the way they get a ring instead of the metal. Oh for American football? Yes. Wow. No for soccer in America. Okay. Okay. So yeah, he was captain of the college team and he was really good and he won the old stars so he got a ring and he put it on Sean's thumb in the coffin. He gave it to him and I was like you've got to get back there now and get me one. Yeah. I think you only get one of them but yeah he went back but he said I'm not grieving. I can make believe that dad's at home. I need to come home. So he left and he came home. So true that isn't how it's used when you're not in the same country. You can almost just feel like it's just there like it's just that I haven't seen them. That's it. Yeah that's hard. Yeah. You know it was you're in the house and you're facing the reality every day. It's everywhere. It's around you 24/7. Yeah. But I had huge support. My friends sound removed in and I nearly had to get a barring order together to go home. Oh how amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Did you like that company? Did you feel like at the end then? The reason I asked is I remember when my sister's husband died I stayed for a good few weeks and she was like you need to go. Yeah. Because she said I have to do this on my own now. You realize that you know you're still living a false life. Yeah. And that these people are actually your responsibility and it did take me a while. Yeah. It did take me a while. It was for a long time. I should have never just built like I have to do this by myself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And sure it's shattering. Yeah. There's no there's no way to describe it because like I I had it all. I had everything. You know I think I was a bit smog with my life. I was so happy. You know. Sean was so sick and he was still singing songs at crack and jokes and he was amazing. Yeah. What songs did you like to sing? Grace. Oh I love Grace. Yeah. And we as a family used to sing Ed the Boyage. Her own crew. Yeah. So sad. So tragic. Yeah. And then you know life as they say I hate that saying life was on because it doesn't go on. But you just keep waking up. Yeah. Exactly. You just keep existing. It was a hell do you do? I don't know. I just keep waking up. What choice do you have? Yeah. So I said that to someone before what choice do you have? And they said well you do have a choice really. You could decide to give up. I couldn't. Yeah. But you didn't. You know also. Yeah. Obviously you carried on and for your kids, well fortunately that was not the end of tragedy for you. - No, it wasn't. And we always thought, you know, nothing worse can happen. - Yeah. - Yeah. So tell me about Stephen, if you don't mind talking about him, when Stephen is the youngest. - Yeah. - And when Stephen was born, we realized why we were all alive. (laughing) - It was Stephen's world, we just lived in it. - I love that. - Yeah. He was absolutely gorgeous. Like the models on your Instagram. - Oh, he was gorgeous. - And beautiful. - He just came into this world, hadn't got time, you know, he actually he was like born outside of the labor world. He was so, like he just came into the world and got into a car, went in the bus lane. - That's very, yeah. - But he was an amazing person. He really, and truly was. - Yeah. - He was like, you know, when you're having your dinner, the child that gets up to kind of describe a story, he's animated, you know, he was popular, he could sing, he could play the guitar, and he could play football. He was good at everything he did. He was, he was funny, and you'd hear his laugh everywhere, even in places where you should not be laughing. (laughing) And he was the youngest, but he had a very special relationship with, like he'd walk into Laura's house with his own little boy, open the fridge, day so the night. - I don't know. It was like Laura was his second mom, and that house was, you know, why wouldn't I be? - Yeah. - And then he said, "Listen, I'll be back in a better now." You know, Lenny was just part of the family. He was just, he was very comfortable in everybody else's home. And himself and Emil, when they were together, they just had that, you know that brother language? That nobody else understood it. And they would always laugh and always laugh. I'm sure it's somebody else's expense, but it always laughs. (laughing) And then he minded Caroline like she was his little sister. In fact, everybody thought that she was younger than him. - Right, so close and aged. - So close. - You didn't get away with it. - Yeah. - People thinking that she was his baby sister. - Yeah. - And he was just a great worker, and he bought his house and he had his own company and he had a flowering company. And what age did he start that up at? - My brother Peter took him under his wing when John died. And he worked for him for years, and then he went out in his own. So he's been working since John died, really. - Wow. - But he was just amazing. - Absolutely amazing. - And he had kids himself? - Yeah, so himself and Emma had Lenny, and Lenny was six when Stephen passed, and then they had Cleo. She was three months old. - Wow. - And it was coming up to Stephen's 30th birthday, and all the lads, the pal together, the grew up. They were all going away to celebrate the joint thirtieth, so they were going skiing, and then they went to Barcelona to the W Hotel, and Stephen didn't come home. So he had an accident, didn't come home. - Well, yeah. And do you remember getting off, do you remember what a stupid question? You got a phone call obviously, no. I didn't, my son Aiman walked into my bedroom in the middle of the night, and I just jumped up and said, Stephen. - You knew. - He said, yeah, he's gone. Oh my God, I'm so sorry. Susan, my God, I can't even imagine what that moment is like. You couldn't, you can't generate that sound again. Yeah. It comes from your womb. And it annoys. That's incredible. I can only imagine. Yeah. Yeah. - The devastation of that. - Yeah. - Thanks. So. So he was in Barcelona. - Yeah. - With all his friends. - Yeah. - And were you guys able to communicate with them or were they giving you updates? Was there anybody giving you updates from Barcelona? - Yeah. - Aiman got on the first flight and went out. - Yeah, and then the next day, the rest of us went. - You went over to the. - Yeah. But we didn't know where he was. And nobody helped. - Really? - Yeah. It was a weekend. I can't do you think. I can't remember. Bush, it's Catalonia, so they don't really communicate very well with Spain. I've been told what to do because they're so like they're on their own. And they said, we didn't know where he was. And nobody would tell us. And you know, I'm used to my deterrence every time I hear somebody has died abroad. And the family are getting consular assistance. I've had two family members that died abroad that had the bodies had to be repatriated. And I have experienced consular assistance once. I didn't experience a once-dead and died. We got no help. And then Laura then heard of the Kevin Bell repatriation trust. They're saints. - Yeah, they're just saints. So you're in Barcelona and you're not getting any consular support at all. - No, nothing. - Nothing. - Nothing. - And you don't know where he is. - And we don't know where his body is. - And Emma was there. She flew over straight away and her pals were there and her mom and everybody was walking around in the days. Like if you asked me what just a place that I can't remember, you know, I really can't remember. Bush, it's just kind of been brought, you know, just can't remember. - Yeah. - And were the police communicating with you? - No, no. No, nobody was communicating with us and we didn't know where the body was. And then Emma obviously wanted to bring Steve and home and then I was kind of thinking, "Well, maybe I'd be better serves at home." So I came back home and Emma stayed. And Emma, the machine, but I remember just take over. They just take all the way, like the day before we spoke to them, we were in court. You have to go to the courts to find the body or to release the body and they asked Emma to write a parenthesis in Spanish. - You just do Spanish. Like it's, oh, it was hell. - Oh my god. - It was hell. - Yeah. - Yeah. - It's a low fever. - Like you've been through so much and then to be faced with that. - Yeah. - And crazy. - I know. - And as a mom, having to get on the plane and not have seen them or not know where he was. - I know. - What was, but you're up, it's like a zombie. - Yeah. - I was just in the way where you were at that stage. - Yeah, when I was there, I thought I should be here. When I was here, I thought I should be there. I didn't know what it was to him. But, Aemun and Laura, they, and Caroline was like after Luzon part of herself. You know, they were all beside themselves. And, but they were brilliant. Like, they got on to Kevin Bell, repatriation trust. And the carol not saying enough about them because they do all the paperwork. They bring your loved ones body home. And when you go to say, can I settle with you? - You know what I mean? No. - If ever you're. - Phone-driven. - Yeah. Just think of us. - So you got him home. - So, and. - Did you get to see him? - Yeah. - When you got home? - Aemun rang me, he said, "Mom, I have him." And he's still better looking than me. (laughing) - I know, humor just gets you through. - Don't say that shit, yeah. - So, yeah, brought him home. And if. He was in his house and then the funeral. And he's with John. Yeah. Like the fact that he was going, now you have to remember my mom died four weeks before she'd come. Oh my goodness. Mommy died on the 10th of January and Stephen died on the 8th of February. So now you can see why I was just not able to function. That is a tremendous amount of loss. Yes. It's more than one person could bear for any of those situations. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just phenomenal how the human spirit, like yourself, just keeps going. Because as you said, what choice do you have? Keep waking. I'm not gonna get my keep getting off. I think you got, oh, here's another one. She just wanted those things called day. Yeah. So, you know, after you got Stephen and, you know, do you find comfort that he's with John and say, you do? Stephen gave my mama a hug when she was dying and she said, I'll see you soon. And I swear to God, nearly brought her back to life. She opened her eyes and she's just so steep and I love that. But none of us knew how soon that would be four weeks later. Oh my God. And the day before he went away, himself and Emma went in to register Cleo's birth. And my sister was coming out of having registered my mom's death. And she said, Stephen, what's going on? You said, I don't know, this very strange. The oldest in the family. And the youngest baby. Yeah. It's absolutely devastating. What age was Stephen? 30. He was a 30. Yes, he's gone for his 30th birthday. She almost 43. I mean, it's 30. My mother was 92. I know. Isn't life so bizarre? Yeah. When you think about it. Yeah. Doesn't make it any easier, you know, of your obviously devastated over the last year and mother, I often hear the people say, sometimes when tragedies occur together, you often hear people feeling guilt that they felt like they didn't have time to grieve. You know, another person, like for yourself, like which moment just gone? I mean, did you feel like you had even time to, you know, were you consumed, obviously, with the loss of your son? Did you find it hard to even have space for all of these losses? Yeah. I did, really. Yeah. So from there, you guys decided to channel your grief into something positive. Yeah. And obviously, I would imagine you were inspired by Kevin Bell. I was. Yeah. And you guys set up a foundation called the Stephen Moiland Foundation. Yeah. Tell me a little bit about that. Firstly, the Kevin Bell. Repetition. Yeah. They had said to us, you know, if ever you did fundraiser, so the girls organized fundraiser and they raised 57,000. Oh my God. Yeah, for family, for the day. But so we had, when Sean died, I had gone to get counselling for the younger two. And I realized there's nothing out there. So I did a degree and became counselling. Then, when Stephen died, we went to the school again, 15 years later. I was like, is this the best we can do for our children? There was nothing 15 years ago that's fair enough, but nothing has changed. And with all the will in the world and all the good people that are out there, my God, I've met so many of them. But it's not enough. Yeah. So we said, you know, if Lenny is unclear, or to be the adults that Emma and Stephen want them to be, like Emma's basin, she's an amazing mum. And I'm sure if she never got sports, those two children have the best. And what you do, and she is very aware, she wouldn't leave that. So that had to be dealt with. So because I was friendly with the guy who owns the college that I had gone to, he came in, his name is Stuart Wilson from Zaslife College. And he went to the school with Emma and Laura and they got a counsellor in. They thought, showed the school how to do it. And yeah, they got a counsellor in, but then covered it and we were like, this is, Lenny was fine because Emma got somebody to come to the house to be with him and not obviously and lock down but like around it, you know. So we thought there's nothing there. Yeah. So we sat up the foundation and the foundation is to pay for counsellors, to counsell children who have lost one or both their parents. So we take children between the age of five and the eighteen and the counsellors that we use are masters level, they're specialists in their field. So if somebody brings in, we find out about the child because children are so different. So some child could have autism, ADHD, sure. Yeah. So I don't know, whatever the circumstance is. So we will pair that child with the appropriate counsellor for their needs. Okay. You know, so it's working really well so far. Wow. We haven't launched it yet. Yeah. So actually we're going to launch it on the e-bub Stevens birthday on the 17th of November. There is a ball. Oh, yeah. So yeah. To launch it. So that'll be a fantastic night and we're just a world company of waiting charitable status. So the applications in but you know how long that takes. I know. Yes. I know one of those was unfortunately when we put our playground to the charitable status. Yeah. Oh my God. The hoops you have to jump through. Yeah. But it's all worth it, isn't it? Oh yeah. It's very fulfilling. Once you get on the journey, you know, and you hear the mams and the dads that are left behind and their stories and you know, just I do think your sister, a child, two children, aren't you? And like I'm sure all she thought about was, what about the kids? And I know that if my husband could have spoke to me that night, he'd say, "Mind the kids." Yeah. And if Stephen could have spoke, he'd say, "Mind the kids." And I just want to say, listen, we're going to mind the kids. It's okay. That's such a lovely legacy for both. Stephen, Andrew, husband, Sean. Yeah. We're going to mind the kids. You're minding everybody's kids really, you're trying to spread that care and concern, like the care Sean showed the kids. Yeah. If they come to us, we'll mind the kids. And I think if I was to go tomorrow and I was talking to you today, I'd say mind the kids. Wow. Yeah. It's really what life is about to, isn't it? The children and the kids and the generation. That's our role as parents and caregivers, but also society. We have a duty. It can go so terribly wrong. Yeah. Absolutely. And there is, you have to fight. Don't you nowadays for care in all aspects. You've heard me talking about the hospitals and whatnot. Yes. But yeah, I see that too. My nephew's obviously have no parents and nothing does not huge amounts to support out there. But as you said, they can have as much love and the family can do everything within their power, but sometimes you need professional guidance for children. You do. But it's traumatic. You've just said it though. Yeah. Love. Yeah. Love is the best healer you'll ever have. Mm-hmm. That's if you have love. Mm-hmm. Like, what more do you need? Yes. Guidance. But love saves the day. Yes, I agree with you. I really do. You know, there's so much emphasis on degrees and exams and all that kind of thing. And of course, they're important. But a child's main thing is to be loved and to be heard. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Their needs. And they, childhood needs, they need to be met. Yeah. But I think people separate what a child needs as to what an adult needs. You know, like. I'm just finishing my master's in child and adolescent because of this no other reason. And you know, for my husband died, I thought, you know, God, kids, the age, the ration, I had no idea, no idea that from pregnancy, the effect on a child from the shock the mother gets is a lifelong. It's a lifelong, you know, like a child who, we thought, clear won't know, she's so small and you know, she, Lenny was six, he had a relationship, a non believable relationship with Stephen and people just say, Lenny had two mammasa and Dan, Cleo came along, he was besotted with her as well, but Lenny will never forget Stephen. You know, and you would think you have to get the cancel for Lenny and she'll clear won't know. But when a child suffers the loss of a parent between in utero and five years of age, they have to be like, well, I don't, they're the, that's the risk age. So when that child is older, there's more looking for that void, looking for that daddy figure, numbing the loss when they're teenagers. Okay. Versus when they're seven to twelve. Okay, so the kids that are five and below, will always look to fill the void. Yeah. So more so than if they were a little bit older. Yeah. I suppose, I suppose because the kids are a little bit older, have memories to put into that void. And yeah. And that's why building memories for children who are too small to remember, through pictures, through books, through stories, you know, the way you can get a story book made and you can get it with Cleo and Daddy, you know. I did that for my life. The memories. Yeah. That's what they, interesting. Yeah. My nephews were the little one was two. He was born in 2013. He was two when he studied died and he was three when he's mom died. So he doesn't remember either of them. But I, I did that like he said, I did a photo book. Every photo I could find of them together. And it's funny. He is now ten. We just lied down the floor at my house at the weekend. And I said, now, I'm going to tell you, all of these photos I said, I took a lot of them. So I, each one and they loved it. I said, that one now, I said, she had just gone out and he'd met Daisy Chains. And it's a picture of his mom with a Daisy Chains on her head. And she smiled at him. And then I was on to the next page and I was saying, that's Jason's birthday at school. And then he'd a plaster in his head. I said, you fell and hit your head. And it's like it's incredible really that, you know, it's so better sweet because that's how they have to get to know their parents through a photograph. But it's like rewriting the story. But isn't that why photos are so important? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And unfortunately some people from an older generation don't have any. You know, it's very sad. But you're right. You really, you know, God, you're bang on the money. There's so many people out there that talk about people saying, how they're young, they won't remember, they won't be affected. That is the most false, you know, information out there. Children will always be deeply affected by the loss of a parent, no matter whether they remember them or not. Adults are people and children are people. Yeah. And they have relationships with their mom and their dad. And the stages of development that they're going through and the attachment that they have with their parents is unique. Yeah. And the whole process of somebody dying and moving on is far more acceptable to a child than it is to an adult. And they should be part of it. Yeah. And we learned that too late. Really? Yeah. Yeah. You know, they start to know you're trying to do the right thing you don't know. Yeah. But in the foundation, I could probably get a phone call to say, my daughter has passed away and we have to tell the children, how will we go about it? We say age appropriately, honest. Truth. Yeah. And bring them in. But no one tells you that. How do you know? I know. I know. But I do know. I know. I call that. Yeah. That is the advice that they give is, you know. I suppose I remember someone told my nephew that his dad was like, "Santi." No. That they were in the sky like, "Santi." And then he was so confused. Yeah. You know, or they're gone to heaven even he used to think heaven was the place like they're going to be in that. And they think, "What's going on in heaven? When did they come back here?" Yes. It's hard. But it's very hard. Even my own nephew, my own child now, my own son, it was not born when my sister died or her husband. And he's asking me all about them now. Oh, it's not bad. Where is Auntie Lane? But the question is, where is she in heaven? And where is that? How did she get there? And when is she coming back? Why can't I see her? I'm like, "Oh my God, you think you have the answers? It's very difficult." Yes. But you just do your best, don't you? Just try to be age-property. You know, and honest. Yeah, that they were very sick and that they couldn't come home or whatever it was. Yes. That they broke, you know. Yeah. It's difficult. But then he might ask you again in two years' time and then it's a different story. Yes, age-property. Yeah. And you know, children who lose their parents, like they lose them over and over and over because. Every confirmation, communion, birthday, Christmas. Every birthday, every stage, they think about the death in a different way because they're growing. Yeah. They've a little bit more understanding each year. Yeah. So you have to move with them and that is why in the foundation, I think it should be an open-door policy where a child say, "Your husband passed away and your child was six, we'll take Lanny." Then we would like the remaining parent to be able to call the foundation and say, "Listen, I think he's gone down the wrong road because children without a father and a mother, they're vulnerable." Yeah. And vulnerable children in certain areas can be manipulated to do things. That if their dad was at home, they wouldn't be doing. So you want a place where number one, when someone becomes part of Stephen Boyle and Foundation family, I want a house that these kids can come to after school where they can play guitar, they can play pool, or they can. where they don't feel they're different, where they feel like comfortable. And when their teenagers, they have a place to come, they can come after school to their homework, get a bit of help and support. But that when those scary ages come, that their loved one can bring us and say, "I think it needs a little bit of support." And we're like, "Bring them in." And they feel normal because there'd be other kids in the exact same boat. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a powerful stuff you're doing. Unbelievable. Yeah, they don't need a house. Anybody out there with a house? Just spare a house. Yeah, so. Yeah, it's just incredible though to be able to, you know, as we speak all the time, grief is so hard. Oh my God, what you have been through is just phenomenal. Like, it's just enormous, really. And for you to be able to, as you say, another day, get up. But to do that and to also throw your energy and love really for Sean and Steven into that and kind of pass it on, pay it forward to someone else, is really, really inspirational. I do mean that Susan is incredible. So, well done to you. And I hope that the foundation continues to grow. And I know personally that it's needed. You know, I can vouch for that. And I know that there are those goodies there that need support. So I think it's incredible what you're doing and continued success with the foundation and the ball coming up. Yeah, it's awesome. It's got to be really good. Thank you so much for coming in and sharing everything with me. Thanks for the difficult push. You know, there'll be people out there that will get, you know, a bit of comfort and feel less alone. Yeah, and there, you know, I'm very happy here. I have had a wonderful life, wonderful people. I have a partner who picked me up in the palm of his hand and like Mick is amazing. And he was there for Steven. In fact, Steven had said to me just a couple of months before he passed, he said, you know, if I could have my dad back. take them in a blink, but if I had to pick one without dad, I'd pick Mick. He was like a second father to him, you know, so. That's amazing. Yeah, so like I have huge supports in my life. My family are just the best family in the whole world. That's amazing. Yeah, so and we have lots of happy memories and I wouldn't change a thing. And you've happy times now? Absolutely. To give hope to people who are just at the start of their journey. Yes. Happy days. Yeah. I do. That's good. Yeah. So thank you for listening to my story. Not at all. Thank you for coming. Wow, Susan, I suppose like all of my guests really blew me away. Just in her ability to share her story and experience of last soul openly and honestly. At times, I forgot where we were. I felt as if we were in our own little world. By opening up her heart and being so frank and honest, I truly believe she has helped many who are suffering today to feel less alone and that there is help and hope out there. You can find out more on the work that Susan does at www.thestevenmoilinfoundation.com and on social media channels on the same name, The Steven Moilin Foundation. If you enjoyed this podcast, as always, please don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate, and share it with your friends. And I will speak to you next time.