Speaker 1Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at recoveringoutloudpod or by email at recoveringoutloudpod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. Thanks so much for coming down, Mary. I really appreciate it. We met online. I was watching some of your videos and correct me. I hope I don't screw this up, but it's your account is mental health with Mary. I love it. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. You do these like hilarious little videos where you're kind of whispering into the camera and like, you know, telling your story. And I just really liked that. I found it awesome. And you reached out to me. And so I'm happy you came down. Thank you. Thank you. Why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, what brought you into recovery? And you're very passionate now about mental health and recovery and how you kind of came to this point of being an advocate and speaking out about it and making these hilarious videos.
Speaker 2Honestly, I feel like mental health. Addiction and recovery are spoken about, but not truly spoken about. I feel like we live in this world on social media where everyone is very like drink your green juice or go for a 10 minute walk or do this or do that.
Speaker 1Buy my product.
Speaker 2Exactly. And then like, then you see all these mental advocates where they're advocating mental health, but they're all sweat like a gin event. And you kind of forget, like my followers are either addicts or people in recovery. They don't want to fucking see a gin event.
Speaker 1What is that by the way? What's a gin event? Yeah.
Speaker 2There was this like gin company that had this like event kind of thing. And there were a lot of like wellness influences and mental health advocates that were at the event. And I was like, I'm so sorry. If you're following pages, people that are addicts or, or in recovery, should you really be promoting that? So I kind of figured I'm nine years sober. If someone's going to talk about it, somebody that's actually probably lived it should probably talk about it. And let me tell you, it's scary. Like at points because I'm exposing not only myself, but my family as well. And that can be quite challenging.
Speaker 1Yeah. Have you had any backlash from that? Like people kind of saying stay in your lane, you know, cause there's a lot of good positivity and negativity.
Speaker 2Oh my goodness. Absolutely. There has been people including my own family feeling very embarrassed and ashamed, not because of just my past, but because of where, where I am now. And I completely respect that because again, we've lived in a. Culture, you've been Italian, me being Greek, where suffering in silence is far more admirable and protecting people's reputation is far more admirable. But unfortunately that ends up either a killing us or B putting us in these chairs. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1So, so you're nine years sober. Amazing. Congratulations. You were saying you got, you know, before we talk about your backstory and you got sober at 23 or 23, same like me. I came in at 23. What was that like? Tell, tell us a little bit about what that was like and how you ended up in recovery.
Speaker 2Well, technically, to be honest with you, I hit rock bottom. I had absolutely nothing and no one left. And I feel like unfortunately I had to hit rock bottom. And I'll be honest with you, like my dad and my sister were nothing but supportive, but they also had to be like, you know what? We're not going to be, we're not supporting this. So I had to unfortunately hit rock bottom in order to get help. It took me more than one time to figure it out. I was young and stupid. I was also with a lot of people that raving was really big back then. It was really, really big. And unfortunately I couldn't just rave for the weekend. I had to keep doing the drugs from Monday to Sunday. It was what I needed to function. Yeah. And I also had this partner where I don't want to shit on him. We're obviously not together now, where he still tell this day partakes in it and good for him because he's able to differentiate like the difference between partying on a Friday and being able to go to work the next day, meet you. I couldn't, and that caused a lot of issues as well in our relationship because he was very much like, well, what do you mean you're not doing it? I said, I can come out, but I can't. And it caused a lot of issues because I think our initial connection was based off of that. But unfortunately I knew that I didn't have the willpower to be like, no, I'm going to stop. I was like, I need more. I need more. So it became that kind of really tug of war of, I don't have the willpower to be able to be like, no, I'm stopping and kudos to people that can like, I'm not shitting on them, but like, I can't.
Speaker 1Yeah. Once I start, you know, I don't know how to stop. Right. I don't know how to, and I don't know how to stay stopped too. That's the other thing. That's like the two part thing in addiction. Right. Um, you bring up a really important point there. Um, I talked to a lot of people that have had past relationships that were built on, you know, this connection of drug use, partying, alcohol use where you get sober and you're kind of like, huh, we don't have a lot in common, right?
Speaker 2Nothing in common. What the hell is going on? I'm like, Oh yeah. I'm like, okay. Like you want to pass me the mozzarella stick? Like what the fuck are we doing? Like he literally said, I'm like, I'm not the girl for you. You're not the guy for me. And like it, like I wish him all the best. Like I truly do. And he's an amazing person, just not for me. And like now he's with someone where they party and do all that stuff and God bless him. They can party and go to work the next day. I can't. Yeah. And then, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1you get, you get sober and, um, you have not a lot in common. You actually don't even enjoy each other's company. Right. And the same thing. The same thing happened for me, uh, with my friends. Right. Where I first, when I first got sober, I came back from Minnesota and it was advised that I kind of still take some more time in my recovery community and stay away from my friends. And that was, uh, it was hard for my friends, but I was so bought in at that point that I was like, I'm doing whatever you say, man, because I don't want to go back there. Right. I don't want to do that again. And so I spent, I think it was like four months before my friends even, even heard anything from me and I needed to do that. Right. And then, so my point was like, my point with all that was I started hanging out with my friends again and you start to realize like who your real friends are and who your fake friends are. And when I say fake friends, I just, like you said, it's just, you're just don't have, your interests are different. You're, you know, you're, you're doing different things and then you kind of
Speaker 2just slowly fade away. Right. Exactly. Like they're like, they're good people. They're just not good for you. And that's not shitting on them as a person. It's just too, everyone's built differently. Some people have, I don't want to say a stronger willpower, but they're like, let's be honest. Like I can't be friends with people that rave every weekend because I still have that monkey on my back being like, well, like, yeah. And if I dab into it once, who we kidding? Yeah. It's not a one-time situation. Yeah. And we don't know
Speaker 1what's going to happen next. No, no, no. Do you still go to rave sober or have you, or
Speaker 2do you still like the music even? So, okay. So funny enough is I still, okay. So I only listen to the music when I run. Yeah. Because running is I do like, I don't know if you've noticed, but like I run at least 10 to 15 K a day. It's just kind of what keeps me sane. And I love that music. And to be honest, I only like it when I'm running maybe because it's giving me the same endorphins that the drugs used to do at the same time. But I did go to a few raves sober. Well, it was, um, Not my scene. Yeah. Yeah. I suck out like a sore thumb, like a real sore thumb. If you know what I mean? Like I was like, Oh, sweet Lord, this is not. Yeah. Raving's really changed. And it's like, no, I've changed. No. Yeah. No, I've changed. I, I just couldn't, I was like, this is disgusting. I was like, I don't know what Tom do. No. Yeah. And like, yeah, just wasn't my vibe.
Speaker 1I always say this, but cause I still do. I really enjoy techno music and I still do from to, to raves. The times don't really line up with my schedule. It's hard for me to stay up till 6:00 AM nowadays, but I, I used to go to after hours and, you know, leave at
Speaker 210:00 AM. Oh my God. Good old CZ. Yeah. Good old CZ. I would literally walk out Sunday with my eyes peeled open. I was like, oh my God, it's 11 o'clock. Like, first of all, when the balancers at zone know you, that's a problem when you're the last one to leave zone. Cause the lights go on. That's a problem. Yeah. That's a, like when I went to the zone closing party, I cried. That's a problem.
Speaker 1My favorite after hours is closing. What a tragedy.
Speaker 2Yeah. It turns out they just reopened up again. Like somewhere else I was hearing.
Speaker 1Yeah. And that's all, um, they reopened on queen street and a lot less sketchy. Um, I got to know all the bouncers there, but yeah, so my, in my relapse, I spent a lot of time at that place and, uh, man, I look back and I'm like some of the conversations you have with people on those, on those patios. Oh, are on those smoking areas. Like, oh my God. I think back now I'm like, oh, you were going to change the world. together and then oh for sure 10 a.m came around and i was like get me out of here right um and why is that guy carrying a briefcase walking down the street like what's going on right he's going to work you know i'm going home at 10 a.m um something happens though something happens where um now you go to a rave you go to a party and like there's like this shift in the night you know 2 a.m probably around 2 a.m people just start to change right and it's like zombies start coming out and you're like okay i've had my fun here and it's time to go home right but we never went home yeah
Speaker 2we just kept going i was that zombie and like and like there were moments where like i was like i think this person's eyes like going what and i was like whatever doesn't matter like i'm still jamming and then i was like like i look back at it now and like i have a daughter she turns one tomorrow wow and i like think about it now i'm like oh my gosh if she ever like finds out about this which obviously she wouldn't do it if she was like oh my gosh i'm like oh my gosh if she will because i'm all over social media she's gonna be like mom what the hell was wrong with you like did you not think and i'd be like no honey i really didn't think which is why i'm gonna try and like tell you like if you're gonna party please just be smart about it because you know what can happen when you i don't want to say have the wrong friends but when you have an environment that isn't best suited for you and like i'm not here to shit talk people i'm just here to be like sometimes the people that come into your life come in for a reason and hopefully you learn that lesson before
Speaker 1sorry to trigger you end up six feet under yeah yeah so i had a mom reach out to me last week totally overwhelmed not knowing how to help her 15 year old son she picked up what's wrong with my teen after i had mentioned it here and messaged me a week later saying she finally felt seen that's why i bring stuff like this up if you're a parent in the thick of it confused scared or just tired this book is a great place to start check the link in the show notes below it's actually a good point i was gonna ask you like what do you what is what does a parent say to their kid when well mom you use drugs right like why wouldn't i use drugs right um but to your point there's a lot of you know things nowadays where you can take precautions right fentanyl testing kit is the first thing that comes to mind even drug testing in general it's it's like really cheap you want to know what's so funny please
Speaker 2fucking at one point thank god we got the kid at one point the um can i say the mdma yeah yeah sorry so the so the molly that we were doing it was fucking bath salts and i only found that out like three months later because uh my partner at the time he he got like a drug kit test um and he was like oh my god we're doing bath salts i was like jesus excuse us like all this shit that we've put into our bodies and like yes i get it my body's a temple let me tell you i did not treat my body like a temple i treat like a fucking trash can yeah yeah a big old one of those
Speaker 1one of those trash cans on the driveway is when the house is getting renovated just throw it in there worse drywall
Speaker 2and bricks and shit like it's it's so funny to think about like now i check if like the meat was grass-fed but back then i was taking pills from strangers like like it's so funny to like see how like though now i'm like wait is this made with like no pesticides no this no that but yet like though 10 years ago i was like oh magic pill
Speaker 1box let's go for it you mean this one was better than the last batch okay all right cool that's good enough for me yeah oh my god no it's so true it's funny to see the transition when you become
Speaker 2an adult even though to be honest with you i don't think you become an adult and i'm only 31 i don't think you'd be become an adult until you're 30 like to be fully transparent i think 30 and under you're still a kid figuring out your life yeah like truly yeah a lot uh changed for me too i mean
Speaker 1when you get sober though like at 23 um you do mature a lot quicker right because they say when you when you're using drugs your brain just stops maturing up until the point you stop using drugs like at least the way we were using them um so i remember being more mature than a lot of people my age when i came in at 23 and uh you know you just start looking for different like i said different different uh things in your life different preferences um you're you're you know you you value going to the movies on a friday night instead of going to the bar right what was it like for you coming in at 23 with your friends and family how did that work for you how did that work for you how did that work for you how did that work for you how did that work for you how did that work for you how did they react
Speaker 2my friends and my family were extremely supportive to be honest with you they all knew i had a problem my good friends that i'm still friends with till now even their parents who god bless them all they were all very supportive of me getting help they knew i was a troubled kid i had i had a very i don't want to say difficult childhood but it was quite uh challenging um it's funny i've never really shared this too much but my mom she i've talked about her leaving but i've never actually talked the extent of her leaving my mom left us for another man and that was very challenging for me to stomach and i blamed that for the reason i became who i was but i have to remember that her doing what she did was a reflection of her own ethics and morals and values it had nothing to do with me and me using that as the reason to use or or me trying to attempt suicide and doing all of these bad things to myself it was actually my fault and this is where we fall a lot is we are very quick to being like well i'm a victim nobody fucking told you to inject the goddamn needle in between your toes you chose that yes your mom left you but that doesn't give you the right to now allow your life to completely fall apart it's okay yes it's shitty what she did but you allowing that to basically control your whole life and the rest of your upbringing that's a you fault that's not in her fault and justify your actions right exactly exactly and that was one thing also that with a lot of rehab places and a lot of recovery is i find it's very victimhood mentality i don't know if you've seen that a lot but it's well this happened to me well you know what there's people that have had way worse and they've never done drugs you know what i mean yeah so yes did that affect me absolutely but i was the one that chose to do drugs i was the one that chose to self-harm i was the one that did all this was there reason behind it sure okay but who we kidding when my mom did what she did she didn't realize that it was gonna impact me to this degree but i also can't be blaming her as well because she didn't tell me do the drugs i was the one that chose to do drugs and i was the one that chose to do drugs and i was the one that chose to that couldn't deal with the pain so i was like screw this let me find a way out you know what i mean so it was kind of wow i'm sorry i got so heated it's so weird like oh my god you're in the zone i know sorry but it's okay it's good it's so crazy to think that we as addicts or ex-addicts or i guess we're still addicts i guess i don't know what to say like i don't know ex-addicts i consider myself an addict yeah right like i was an addict i'm an addict whatever same thing it was still our fault yes pain happened to us but we had the option like i look at my sister for instance her and i had the same upbringing same life she's completely fine with substances you know what i mean so it was kind of like i was the one that took it and yes it was painful but again i was the one that chose to self-destruct instead of being like this happened to me make it better i used it as a crutch to keep doing the bullshit
Speaker 1that i was doing yeah and then you know keep telling yourself that it's okay if if everybody had their mom leave you know and then you know and then you know and then you know and then you leave them they would use too right they would shoot heroin they would take meth whatever
Speaker 2whatever your thing is right yeah but like turns out a lot of people had moms leave and they were like no mary it was just you yeah so you gotta stop using that excuse as your crutch because then you'll never get better and oddly enough is we have a very complicated relationship her and i and still till this day sometimes i'm like wait a second i'm blaming her that's not cool that's not cool i'm the one self-destructing because i can't manage my own emotions sure it affected me but i also gotta take ownership for the shit that i've
Speaker 1caused yeah there's there's a few things it's a great point um sorry i went off no you're good i i think it's a it's an important topic because yeah it's um i was taught when i came in that we have a part in everything in our lives right the other thing too is like you know your mom leaves you dad leaves you um your husband whatever leaves you and then you're like oh my god i'm it's done it's already happened right so like why am i still dwelling in it there's a lot of healing that has to be done right um but what's my part in it well okay you know i went to a lot of people might not like this but there's even a part so i went to treatment with a guy he's a beautiful human being he was sexually abused when he was a kid and uh he was so angry so angry right when he came in the transformation i watched this man go through you know having all this resentment and victim and what do you like what do you mean i have to do anything to heal from this what do you mean like no it was her fault their fault this this happened um the his part in all of this and this is just my opinion like i said a lot of people might not like this but what if what if my part in that sure it was a horrible thing that happened it doesn't you know give that person any right to do it it's a horrible thing should never have happened but it did it happened what if my part in it is not forgiving that person right and that's a really fucking hard concepts to comprehend why would i forgive them they win why you know there's this ego thing that comes in and it's like well resentment is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies right so like i'm having this resentment towards my mom she's not even thinking about it i'm the only one suffering here now what right i you know i'm not in control what happens in my life but i'm i'm in control of how i react to it you know simple as that so there's there's a lot there where it's like and a girl came on this podcast you know her name's ashley and she said it perfectly i love the way she said it she because she had sexual abuse in her her life right and you know she's told this on the podcast before she had to shift her mind and she had help of a counselor from this victim mentality to survivor mentality and i love that it's like a simple play on words it's like i'm not a victim i'm a survivor i went through this yes it was hard but now i have an experience to help and offer other people that have been through it right
Speaker 2a thousand percent i think we have this misconception that we're forgiving for them no you're forgiving for yourself because if you don't forgive yes even though you are forgiving them it's so that way this doesn't hold the power over you anymore and there's this misconception where well if i forgive them then all is done no no no no no you are forgiving so that way when you wake up the next day it's less painful for you forgiveness yes is to make the other person feel good sure deep deep down forgiveness is for you to feel okay with being hurt it's accepting i've been hurt i forgive them i may not forget but i forgive them because if i forgive them i have peace and that's where we have this misconception where forgiveness isn't for the other person it's actually for you to live in peace and harmony as cheesy as those two words sound it's true though yeah no it's true
Speaker 1excuse me um yeah it's and it's a great point right because a lot of us come in here with trauma and you know you you articulated it well it's like you were justifying it and healing you know that was your medicine right was was whatever so um what can you kind of talk about like what a day looked like in addiction versus what a day looks like now if you remember that far what yes yes
Speaker 2especially now with my whole baby brain which is actually a real thing after you have kids you literally lose your memory you lose your memory you lose your memory you lose your memory you lose your memory um okay so me being an addict i literally woke up every day just trying to get high i was trying to chase away the pain i woke up i felt extremely suicidal i wanted to ignore the suicidal thoughts went for drugs and anytime any sort of depression or suicide hit i would just numb the pain it was very easy for me to just look and numb the pain now when i'm suicidal which is every fucking morning when i wake up because unfortunately that's one of my issues is i deal with constant suicidal ideologies which is why i'm up running 10 kilometers a day because if i don't get up and move my body and give myself that sort of endorphin i know i'm going to chase something else so i'm very much on just taking care of my mind body and soul whether that's going out with friends obviously sober or whether that's going to a movie or whether that's just sitting at home on the couch with my husband or my daughter i'm just looking at things that give me happiness without that happiness if that makes sense because i'll be honest with you i was fucking happy when i was doing drugs but i mean who wouldn't be you're numbing the pin and you're in la la land i was having the time of my life so there are moments where don't get me wrong there's still that monkey there's still that itch but i also know that i have way too much now to lose i have a little girl i have my friends i have my family i have people that i guess always relied on me but i never realized that they did and i was just like they don't need me they don't need me around and it was very much like almost like a cry for help without me realizing that i was like does nobody see how fucked up i am or how messed up i am now i don't care people see how messed up or fucked up i am as long as i get up and i do what i have to do kind of thing so now when that monkey creeps up on me and i say monkey because i don't know how else that's a good analogy but when that monkey creeps up on me and i can feel it i'm like you're going for a run or you're going to as cliche as this sounds meditate or you're going to go to church on sunday or you're going to just sit with the feeling and as much as the feeling sucks if you don't sit with the feeling and you keep running from it you're going to end up running right back into drugs yeah and it ends
Speaker 1up ultimately blowing up in your face right to a more intense degree um you so you've you've been in addiction yourself you've also dealt with a loved one in addiction right and had addiction around you um while being sober right and probably both right what can you talk about what that's like and i don't know just i i talk with a lot of families and it's tough right it's really hard to watch someone do that to themselves especially when you know the answer right you're like i always say this but it's like there's a river you're on the bridge it's like just dude just cross the bridge like this is the answer and on the other side it's like they don't see the bridge right and i was like that too i didn't see the bridge it was just a moat and water and sharks right what's what's dealing with a loved one in addiction like and
Speaker 2how did you navigate that it's crazy the addicts get praise like we were saying and the families forget how much praise they get it is fucking challenging to sit there and watch your loved ones and you know what can happen if they don't get the help they need and i'll be honest with you i enabled a lot of the behavior because i didn't because i had been an addict myself i was like you know what you're gonna get better we're gonna like i enabled a lot of it rather than saying no this is not acceptable no instead it was i had a soft spot because nobody else understood like i did so i was like how do i come down on my life and my life and my life and my life and my life and my loved one when they are gonna be like well weren't you in this position so it was it was very challenging because there were moments where i was like oh my goodness was i like this with my family was i this unhinged unlogical human being and it became extremely challenging because instead of me putting my foot down i was like you know what we'll try again tomorrow or i understand it was like mary what the fuck are you doing that's not what you're supposed to do and oddly enough is there's been a few loved ones and a few that actually ended up unfortunately where i've had to go to the funeral and i wish that i was able to be like what the fuck are you doing and thank god with this loved one i was able to thank like thank god but there were a few that unfortunately i didn't know how to do it because when you're on both sides it's much more challenging because your empathetic part comes out and trying to stay sober in this chaos was very challenging but it also hit me if i'm this person's safe spot in this person's safe zone then i better fucking hold it together because if we both fall then i'm not that person that they can run to anymore and there were a lot of times where i was like oh my gosh what am i doing but i was like but if i don't do this this person has nobody else so it was very very challenging and it was a very tug of war to deal with that some of my loved ones had similar addictions and some of them didn't which made it a lot more easier especially when it wasn't the same addiction as me and i say easier as if it was like a walk in the park but it didn't trigger my monkey as other oh i see okay yeah like as other loved ones like if your issue is alcohol it won't trigger me if i see alcohol but if i see a bag of cocaine on the table i need to get the fuck out because i don't have that willpower yeah
Speaker 1how did you ultimately get um them help into treatment into like what was the final how did
Speaker 2you do that how did you bridge the gap to be honest with you with this one individual god like i don't know if i can i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i support it it was um it was this person extremely insightful and very emotionally intelligent and that's one thing that i actually was kind of envious about was because i didn't have that emotional intelligence to realize what i was doing was actually wrong so they knew right away that i needed to get the help they just i think needed all of us to come together and be like we're here for you which is actually to be honest with you quite admirable i didn't have that i had
Speaker 1to completely hit rock bottom yeah bang your head a few times right um i think and a lot of people don't like hearing this because they want the answer i'm talking about loved ones but to me it sounds like all you did was show up right that's all you have to do that's more than enough
Speaker 2like that's really all you have to do but you also have to set boundaries where it's no i'm not we're not going to enable this. no, this is not, like if this continues, we can't be friends or we can't live under the same roof or we can't, there's so many different.
Speaker 1So yeah, what does enabling look like versus support now?
Speaker 2Is I would say enabling is allowing the self-deprecation and allowing the justifying, well, this happened to me, so this is why. Okay, great. I agree. It sucks it happened to you. So let's go to therapy and talk about it. We're not going to grab a bottle or we're not going to snort a line or we're not going to do this or we're not going to do that.
Speaker 1Yeah. And then to your point, it's like if they crossed said boundary, it's like, you know, you got it. My wife had to get to a point where you're not following the rules in this house. They're very simple rules. They're not hard to follow, right? It was, you know, stay sober, attempt sobriety to some degree. And for me, it was like going to 12-step recovery because she knew that that worked for me before. I want to see you putting in the work, right? And she wasn't asking for a lot, but I couldn't keep up with it. So I couldn't do it because, like I said, that river in the middle was just like, I couldn't cross over, right? It was like too hard for me at the time. I didn't want to even start. And so we went to therapy to your point. And I remember sitting in my therapist's office, our marriage counselor, therapist, whatever you want to say. And like, she was straight up just calling me out, right? Because she knew that I had, I could handle it, but also I had been in recovery before. So it wasn't a new concept to me. She's like, you're being a little boy. And I looked her in the eyes and I said, I know. I agree with you. I can't stop though. Like, I just can't fathom being sober right now because it's so hard. Like I said, she said, well, you know, and they came to, you know, we're going to, you're not following the rules of the house. Like I said, we're going to have to kick you out. Right. And Rebecca, this is Rebecca saying that to me, I'm going to have, and it was the hardest thing for her to do. She reminds me today. She's like, it was so hard for me to kick you out, knowing that you had a chance of dying out there. Right. It was so hard, but ultimately she's like, I'm really happy. I did it because it brought me to a new bottom. And I waved the white flag. A little bit earlier.
Speaker 2A hundred percent. Like one of, one of my loved ones that was struggling, which I dabbled into speaking about it. It was one of my best friends. She was, or since I see, they were a, sorry, they were a heavy drinker. And I remember I explained to this person, if you continue to do this, our friendship is done. And for about a year and a half, we didn't speak. Obviously they got sober and they became a significantly. I don't want to say better person, but they became who they were always meant to be. Now we are very close, but for a year and a half, I said, I cannot have this around me. And it was very challenging for me to cut off people that had been friends for so long. But as I was watching them self-destruct, I was like, listen, you're not taking what I'm saying seriously. So maybe if I completely back it up and stay out of your life, maybe just maybe you'll comprehend and clue in. And it's funny. It's funny. Cause years down the road later, she still tells me you're the only one that never actually left. I said, I was never leaving you. I was just on the sidelines watching you fall on your face because I couldn't be front and center watching it anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. And then, you know, but to your point, it's like, I'll always be here when you decide to get help. Right. As soon as the minute my phone rings and you're saying, Hey, I'm done. I want some help. Like I'll be there for you.
Speaker 2I'll be the first one to run. Yeah.
Speaker 1What's something today, Mary? That you're actively working on about yourself.
Speaker 2Taking ownership for my shitty behaviors. Because don't get me wrong. Even though I'm sober, I still fuck up. Not in the substance part, but in just.
Speaker 3The life part.
Speaker 2Yes, exactly. Same. And just taking ownership of my actions. And like, I give my husband full credit. I am sometimes not a pleasant person to deal with. No, honestly, truly, truly. I'm not like I give him full, full credit. I'm not a sweetheart that you see right now. Sometimes I can be completely unhinged and I mean, when I would get unhinged, I would resort back to drugs. Now, obviously I can't, especially, I just can't do that now to my husband or to my daughter. It's not fair to the both of them. Like they didn't sign up for me to go back to my old ways. So it's every day is a challenge because every day I have to try and be a better person. And sometimes when that monkey tries to creep in. I'm like, I'm not going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person.
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Speaker 4I'm going to be a better person.
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Speaker 2I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person.
Speaker 1I'm going to be a better person.
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Speaker 1I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person.
Speaker 4I'm going to be a better person.
Speaker 1I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person.
Speaker 2I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. I'm going to be a better person. what she upset me i need to just sit with the emotion i'm like well fuck you dad fuck you nicole i'm not the both of you but how dare you let her speak to me that way and it's like but mary we can't control what she says and what she does only you can control how you react i'm like well and then i get so like defensive and angry and it's funny because i'm starting to realize like i'm not using but my behavior is just as bad as if i was using if that makes sense
Speaker 1yeah recovery is not just stopping drinking drugs right it's there's a whole you know litany of things that we have to do um because if it's you know people might think to themselves like well what's the big deal if i'm losing my mind on people or like at least i'm not using drugs right and it's i think a lot of people
Speaker 2fail to make the connection between that was my line when i was younger was at least i'm not using it my dad's like okay but you're shitting on us for literally asking you if you want cheese on
Speaker 1your burger yeah i was like oh right you're you're terrible to be around right it's like we we are we're on eggshells around you but people don't i think a lot of people don't make the connection that if i'm continuing that behavior i'm gonna be using drugs in no time because i like don't i don't like being a bad person i don't like pissing people off i don't like and then people are gonna stop coming around me you know i'm gonna be the last person to know that i'm an asshole which is the word i don't know if you've ever been in that situation where you're like the last person to know
Speaker 2that you're an asshole i literally had no idea i'm like what i'm or you're being an asshole sorry i'm like what i'm a prick they're like yeah you don't realize i was like or the whole like we can't tell you things because you get so angry make everything about you and i'm like first of all that was hard to swallow because i was like excuse you with how you're saying and then i got defensive then i realized oh my god look at how you're acting no wonder why people are saying that and then it was it was i don't want to say funny but funny to say that when i got clean me having to deal with my suicidal ideologies became even more real to the point where once i got clean i still ended up going back to the psych ward because i realized i was never actually dealing with my situations i was just band-aiding it with drugs and then once i got clean i realized i'm still depressed i'm still suicidal so obviously doing drugs was just a band-aid and although it made me feel good it didn't actually i still struggle every day with suicide ideologies and there's no moments where i said to my husband like i don't think i can do this anymore and he was like i understand i mean not fully but i mean i can understand where you're coming from and he's been very supportive of like so what should we do i was like can we go for a walk and grab some ice cream although it's not a quick fix it's a little distraction to get my mind off of how suicidal i really truly am so i got so
Speaker 1dark for a second no no the depression i don't think we talk you know when i started this podcast i wanted to do addiction mainly but i also wanted to bring in other mental health and one of the reasons i you know wanted to have you on here is like depression is a real thing that for a lot of people that don't struggle with drugs and alcohol you take away the drugs and alcohol now it's like boom depression amplified times a thousand every day so how do i deal with it right how do you deal with it you talk about going for ice cream distracting yourself and i know that it might sound very well what the fuck like you're listening to this and you're like the fuck is going for ice cream you're gonna do but you know what it's like you'd be surprised that just like a little
Speaker 2bit of distraction i can fully understand yeah like or or this need for routine like it's funny because i make fun of all these wellness creators for like oh to have your mantra in the morning and do this and do that i'm like listen as much as i shit on them and make fun of them there is some truth like you need routine like i'm sure you learned in rehab routine and structure is very important but like routine and structure doesn't mean having a fucking matcha and chia seeds it means going outside for a walk getting eight hours of sleep showering making your bed keeping your space clean like who would have thought like the basics that they teach you in kindergarten are actually like skills that you need to survive and that's something that i feel like people forget is like once you get clean and sober you're not done there's still so much more to do like having to wake up every day and doing a simple task like every morning i wake up and i make my bed people are like that is like what's the big deal yeah and it's like when you come from a shitty day and at least your environment's clean that's the best you're like oh my god because like look there's days where i come home and like don't get me wrong like i am fed up with the world but then i look at my house and i'm like okay it's clean one less thing for me to like snap about at
Speaker 1least something is in order right the world doesn't make sense but my house makes sense
Speaker 2exactly something is in order exactly or or this whole need for routine like as much as it's really been like wake up at 5 a.m brush your teeth go to pilates go to this go to that as much as i make fun of it there is also some deep down truth to having routine and structure i'm not saying wake up and go to a reformer pilates or do me and run 10 15k a day but if you have some kind of structure and routine at least when that monkey comes whether it's addiction or depression you're like you know what i have a routine i need to stick by it and this is one thing that i feel like there's this misconception where like when you have depression it's like you're it's hard to take care of somebody else when you can't take care of yourself and yes and no because like i was in the psychiatric ward at a young age my first admission was i was 13 turning 14 um there was a nurse slash teacher theresa she's literally why i graduated let me tell you something theresa would knock on my door saying you got chemistry to finish let's get up let's go and the reason was because when you were in there for a month the world doesn't stop just because you're in rehab or you're in the psych ward so it was very crazy to see how i still had to get my shit together for school because when i got out of the psych when i had to go back to school the assignments were still piling up the the tests were still coming so if i came out with nothing done do you know how much more anxiety provoking how much more stressful that would have been yeah you're behind on life right exactly so it's crazy to see how we live in this world where it's like you're depressed you're depressed you're depressed you're depressed you're depressed you're depressed that's okay sit down in your bed for five days i am so sorry i don't know any psychiatric or that's you just sit in your bed for five days you're like get your ass up and do what you gotta do because guess what your world outside is still moving and eventually you're gonna get back out there and if you get back out there and you're not ready you're coming right back in and trust
Speaker 1me you don't want to go back in and it's gonna be worse too exactly because you're more behind
Speaker 2exactly like she used to knock on my door mary we got chemistry i'm like but i don't want to okay fantastic let's go like it was very much like i don't want to shower okay well you smell so what are you gonna do yeah it was very like you don't want to do it boohoo get in line yeah no one wants to do it yeah and then and then oddly enough is when you end up feeling better you're like man am i glad i at least did the bare minimum so i when i got back out into the world at least my ducks were in a row yeah they weren't just scattered everywhere yeah you know it's a
Speaker 1there's a lot of good stuff there routine uh being regimented um one thing i liked and uh you know i i a big part of my life um i used to run marathons too and long distances um when i was training for those i found a lot of motivation in um like david goggins he's a you know navy seal guy that
Speaker 2my husband's obsessed he's great obsessed read his books yeah he tries to make me run without i'm like you've lost i do that yeah no no no no no because i get stuck in my thoughts no no i need
Speaker 1my music on no no i can't do it i love it um he used to talk about he used to always say like and sure you know say what you want about him from a mental health perspective a lot of people criticize him for not whatever i don't care it helps me um he used to say like nobody is coming to save you no one's coming to save you right sure it sounds harsh but it's true like i'm you know i'm going through something right now sure my mom can and my wife can show up all they want right and be like honey you know it's going to be okay but at the end of the day they're not going to pull me out of bed and get me to go to work or to go to the gym it's like i have to have lives to live yeah that too right i don't want them doing that exactly it's like i have to come to a point where it's like listen buddy like it's you and me and that's it you know you can choose your two options you can choose to suffer you know pain is inevitable suffering is optional i love that one it's like you can pain's gonna happen no matter what i'm gonna walk out of here today something bad's gonna happen for the rest of the day and it's how i react that that you know i can choose to sit in oh my god i can't believe that thing happened to me well you know poor me my life sucks how am i gonna get through this oh my god like i'm gonna do nothing about blah blah blah all this shit in my head um it's up to me to react to it right um i want to talk about like you know so nine years is a long time can you talk about you know some tough times where maybe um you know you were close with someone and you were like oh my god i don't want to have any moments like that where it's like you came close or like you really struggled whereas like you almost picked up or or drank or yes covid yeah yeah i got through covid too actually i was completely sober through covid
Speaker 2I could meet you in aisle three at Loblaws, but I couldn't go for therapy because it just, at that time, it wasn't yet ready for virtual because of how quickly COVID hit. So I thought it was comical that the marijuana store underneath my condo was open. The LCBO was open, but I couldn't go to groups.
Speaker 1Or the gym.
Speaker 2Yeah. I couldn't do things that made me feel good. But if I wanted to go down there and smoke a joint, no problem. But if I want to go to a meeting, none. That was COVID for, I think, a lot of people who even weren't addicts, but dabbled in alcohol or marijuana or whatever. I feel like COVID really amplified because all you did was sit at home and drink or smoke weed. There was nothing else to do. And the second time was being pregnant. Pregnancy sucks. Sucked for me. Honestly, I had prenatal depression. Obviously, I couldn't partake in it because I was pregnant. And during COVID, I couldn't partake in it because there was so much societal pressure. Because growing up European, you're doing so well. If I let that monkey win, it would have been a whole situation. So I allowed, oddly enough, was I allowed pressure to keep me sober. And I allowed being. Pregnant to keep me sober. Because obviously, there was no way I was going to fuck that one up. So there were two times where my depression got really bad. And again, it was always for me. I used a lot of the times because of my mental health issues. It wasn't even when I was raving, I was raving to chase something away. Everything was always to chase the feelings that I was having or to get rid of whatever was going on. Whether that had been my psychotic episodes or whether that had been any form of my psychiatric issues that would come up. I didn't want to deal with them. So I was like, take drugs. Because if you take drugs, those psychiatric issues seem to just decrease.
Speaker 1It's almost like I always say it's like the volume button, right? Drugs and alcohol for me, it was like it just turned down the volume in my head for a moment. You know, it was like, you know, nothing mattered, right? Yesterday didn't matter. Tomorrow doesn't matter. I don't care. I'm living right now. This is fun, right?
Speaker 2Or this feeling for some reason you forget that like I was just crying for charge. I want to end my life. Now I'm like, oh, I'm a high. This is great. But then the comedown is a fucking nightmare. And then God forbid we do with the comedown. So what we keep doing.
Speaker 1Yeah, that cycle, right? I know it'll fix this. And then, yeah. I mean, that is drug use, you know, in a nutshell, right? Essentially, it's like the circle, you know, the monkey wheel, as you mentioned. I wanted to, I was thinking about this as you were talking to because we're alike in that alcohol wasn't our main thing, right? I was the same way where it's like alcohol for me. It's like I just when I would have it, it was like I could not stop thinking about what was next, whether it be benzos, you know, cocaine, anything. I was like, oh, boy, like, let's go. It started the kind of engine, right? So I consider myself an alcoholic. Today, how did you come in? A lot of people struggle with this. I find I was able to admit this was me, too, in twenty three at twenty three. Yeah, I'm a drug addict. All the evidence is there. I get it. Yep. Drug addict. Check. I get it. Stop using cocaine. OK, I'm in. Right. That was ruining my life. I'm not an alcoholic, though. Right. I could probably have one drink. How did you how did you deal with that? That how did you come to a realization where you realize that all mood and mind altering substances were the same and that you were going to stay? Away from alcohol?
Speaker 2That was actually quite easy because when I was drinking the next day, I felt like a bag of shit. So I was like, oh, my God, this is the same feeling I have when I was doing drugs. So it's funny when I got clean, I was still drinking wine here and there with my friends, because to me, I can have a glass of wine and not have a glass of wine for three years. Like alcohol was never and like still now to this day, mind you, I don't drink. But I mean, if I were to partake in a glass. I could have one glass and then. I'm done because for some reason, I never got that high from alcohol. So therefore, because I never got what I wanted to me, alcohol was just to be social. I would have a glass of wine. So I'm a very lightweight when it comes to alcohol, not to drugs. When it comes to alcohol, I'm very lightweight. I would have one glass of wine. I was feeling tipsy. The next. This morning, I was completely depressed. I was like, what the fuck am I doing? I was like, Mary, this is exactly like drugs.
Speaker 1That was probably triggering, too, I bet. Right. Like those feelings would trigger you to want to use drugs. Interesting.
Speaker 2It was. Yeah, it was very weird because like, though, for me. So funny enough is a lot of my loved ones that are in recovery, all of their I don't want to say their substance issues. That's so wrong to say, but all of their monkeys were alcohol. So I could be around that and it never bothered me because to me, I didn't like alcohol. I didn't like the taste of it. I don't know what it was. Actually, I do know what it was. I have an underlining eating disorder. So or had or have or I don't know how the fuck you want to describe it. But alcohol was calories.
Speaker 4Hmm.
Speaker 2Very stupid mentality for me to think. But alcohol was calories. So drinking alcohol was like eating a cheeseburger.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2And then because I would be drunk, I would be hungry. Oh, yeah. That I would want a cheeseburger. So I would end up the next day. Feeling like a bloated bag of shit, which then made me spiral down to. Oh, my God. I had one glass of wine, had 20 chicken nuggets. Now I feel like complete ass physically. I'm. Fully depressed. I was like, this is not this is not for me at all. So it was easy for me to just be like alcohol. No. So it's funny, like if there was alcohol around us today. Yeah, I could care less.
Speaker 1So even in social situations, you did you have problems with that where it's like because I know for me in the beginning, it's like I feel like I everyone's looking at me. People are noticing I'm not drinking when in retrospect, in hindsight, nobody gives a fuck. Right. They're too busy thinking about themselves and worried about their own. Drinking or if people came up to me and said, hey, why aren't you drinking? That's kind of weird. It's usually because they had a problem with it or simply it was their problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was that was that tough for you or is it tough for you today?
Speaker 2To be honest with you. Um, no, it it was tough for me to get back out into the rave scene and be sober. Drinking alcohol wasn't because I never really drank.
Speaker 4Yeah.
Speaker 2So. Mary not drinking. Big fucking deal. It's Mary not drinking. It was never that it was never that itch for me. But going back to thinking people give a shit about you. It's funny because we all think we're the main characters. I can tell you right now, I was doing cartwheels for shits and giggles in the Athens airport to calm down my daughter this past week. Yeah, literally like a few days ago. I can tell you something. Nobody gave they nobody looked at me. Nothing. It calmed down. My daughter, but I can assure you, like, maybe someone looked at me, but like, fuck, like, it's crazy how we're like, oh, my God, people are watching me. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I'm sorry. Like, unless you're like Joe Burrow or like, I'm sorry, like Tom Brady, like, no one's looking. I'm so sorry. No one is looking at you. I can assure you. I can assure you. Like, people are so consumed with. Are people looking at me that they don't even notice what the hell you're doing?
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly. That's great. I just picture you doing cartwheels in the airport. Do a video of it.
Speaker 2You know what? Actually, we're traveling in a few weeks with my daughter and my husband, so I will actually do cartwheels on purpose so that way people can see like shit. Yeah, people are so consumed with their own lives that nobody cares. And that's the problem is, I feel like everyone's. It's like, oh, they're watching me. Listen, if you're that concerned about people watching you, put a fucking soda in your hand, put a lime in it or a lemon and just because I know also a lot of people are very uncomfortable with sharing. I can't drink or I can't do that. And like, I respect that. I completely respect that. So if you don't want to deal with that situation, put a soda water in your hand. Put a lime in it. Put a lime in it and no one's going to know the difference.
Speaker 1I can tell you that's what I do and because I enjoy soda water, but also it just eliminates any any questions and it just makes my life easier.
Speaker 2Exactly. And I'm hydrated. Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah. Or or like, they'll go to the bar and be like, can I have a Coke and then with the Coke and put a lime in there, people think you're drinking rum and Coke. Not that I support that illusion, but I also respect people not feeling secure. secure. I respect that. I'm nobody to be like, no, you whatever. do what you got to do to get through that social event. And I know some people might disagree. Like, I know for a lot of people, they say like, don't even drink non-alcoholic beer. I have a lot of loved ones that were alcoholics, but they love the taste of beer, not alcohol. So they literally drink non-alcoholic beer all the time. Okay, cool. They'll literally show up at parties with their own six pack of non-alcoholic beer. Amazing. Like, do whatever makes you feel comfortable. And that's why I get so upset with rehab. But not just rehab, just that whole bubble. It's like, well, you cannot go to a bar when you're three months sober. No, if you have the willpower to sit there and drink a Coke with no rum and you can hang out with your boys or your girls, why not?
Speaker 1And you have the exit plan, the support system in place. Exactly.
Speaker 2When we, I find that when we shelter the addict too much, we're actually doing more harm than good. Like, I respect the whole don't drink a non-alcoholic beer, but if the person is drinking non-alcoholic beer over and over and over again, and it doesn't faze them, it actually makes them more comfortable because I know a lot of loved ones where they drink because of their social anxiety. So if they have a non-alcoholic, non-alcoholic beer in their hand, no one's going to say shit.
Speaker 1And also too, if you're at a point where that non-alcoholic, Jesus, that non-alcoholic beer is saving you from shooting heroin in the bathroom, fucking more power to you, buddy. Honest to God.
Speaker 2And like, yeah, like, and like, okay. Or like when people leave rehab and like, well, they're smoking cigarettes. I'd rather me smoking a fucking pack a day. Like, not that I condone lung cancer. Like, like. That's not what I'm saying. But I'm also saying like.
Speaker 1One thing at a time. Yeah.
Speaker 2Exactly.
Speaker 1Every time I left rehab, I was smoking and I quit all three times. You know what I mean? Like it's, I'm okay. Hopefully. We'll see. Yeah. I hate smoking now.
Speaker 2Yeah. Like, okay. Every time you're in the psychiatric ward, I can tell you this. I picked up smoking all the time. Once I left the psych ward, I stopped smoking because again, it was a social thing to do when you were dealing with a bunch of shit. And it's not. Like you could do much in the psych ward. So, I mean, you would go for walks and what'd you do? Hit your vape or have a cigarette. It was just something to do. Yeah. It was just something to do. And like, yes, you're still feeding the addiction, but like, I'm sorry. I'd rather the nicotine addiction than the heroin addiction. If I'm being totally transparent.
Speaker 1That's great. Um, I want to end with this. If you could say something, Mary, to someone suffering with depression or suicidal ideations, what would you say?
Speaker 2fuck oof that's a hard one okay i'm gonna try not to tear up crap okay um your mind is very good at playing tricks don't let it win i'm telling you right now you are worth so much more alive than dead and i would much rather hear your story than hear it at your funeral if i'm being completely transparent with you so um i'm sorry i'm trying not to cry just know that it's your mind playing tricks on you i'm telling you this for a fact we all need you here we all want you here this is just that fucking monkey telling you that the world is better off without you and the world is not better off without you the world is a far more shittier place with you not in it sorry i tried not to cry you're cool you're cool you're cool
Speaker 1that's beautiful thank you thanks so much for coming down mary i appreciate you thank you
Speaker 5thanks for listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone
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