F1 Returns to Africa, Horner's Exit, Kimi's Track Limits, and More!

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Hello, welcome to the Ringer F1 show part of the Ringer podcast network. I am your host Megan Schuster and we are here, not on a race week for the first time in nearly a month. To cover some recent news and notes from around the F1 world and joining me as always is Spanners. Spanners, happy Wednesday. What are you going to do with your non-F1 Sunday for the first time in many moons? I'm going to do what I normally do, which is to have no strong political opinions one way or the other. And I've looked at the list of topics that we're discussing today. And there's so much world geopolitics in there. And I go, well, I have major political opinions generally. I'm someone who involves themselves in what's going on in the world, what's going on in local politics. All the way down to what the local MP is doing about litter picking and can people get to the GP surgery? The last two or three years, though, I actively realized that it was, I was confusing in my brain all of those politics with things I need to do to make my family survive. So I've actively kind of noted out of those things. And then F1 is going like, no, you have to think about all of these things all the time. All of the time. I had a meeting with my boss yesterday and he innocuously asked, you know, how do you feel like things are going with the show? And I just like trauma dumped on him. Well, there's this conflict happening. And then there's this new announcement coming through. And then we're in this space in this part of the world. And he was like, F1, really like a global crisis. That's like, yeah, I'm sorry. And finally, keep saying this ridiculously outdated thing. And this ridiculously outdated thing. Yeah, yeah. Well, we will get into all of that. But first, I wanted to start with an announcement from this past week that F1 said it is officially returning to Africa in the 2030s with a race in Rwanda. There is no official start year set. F1 has said they've given them a little bit of wiggle room in Rwanda. Since this project is starting from scratch and to avoid hopefully any kind of first-year issues like we saw in Las Vegas in 2023 with the, you know, street cover things flying off in harming cars and, you know, the stuff that we saw with Madrid this year, they want to give them time to iron out all the kinks so that when we first get to Rwanda and have that first race, it is a success. Whenever it launches though, it will have a 10-year contract and it will mark the first race in Africa since 1993. It is happening in the outskirts of the Rwandan capital of Kigali. And the track is being constructed by Worse Design, which is a design company founded by Alexander Worse and F1, XF1 driver. And the Tilka Engineering Group, which has designed many of the modern F1 circuits. Some interesting early features of this track have been revealed. In the initial press conference, it was said that the circuit would have A197 meter elevation change per lap. For a point of reference, the elevation change in spa is about 102 meters, so this is going to be really, really significant. The race got to visit the actual site where the circuit is being constructed and they got to interview the architects behind it. They said the site is built around two hills and a lake. So they're not kind of like trucking in a lot of things to make this elevation change happen. It's, you know, kind of going around the existing topography. But the elevation change could be somewhere around 15% in some areas, which would be the most extreme on the F1 calendar. There's been a tentative layout released online that's drawn some level of concerns about potentially a lack of overtaking here. The architects have like, you know, tried to press pause on this. They were like the thing that is online is not official. We have a lot of room to make tweaks. And they want everyone to know that they are designing this with overtaking and strategy decisions in mind. They said they've already been racing it on simulators and have been really, really focused on making this a positive racing experience for drivers but also a positive experience for spectators. They've like, in all of the pieces I have read about this, they have said very, very clearly. We know that you guys want overtaking and we know that what you've seen on the internet maybe doesn't look like there is, but we promise this is front of mind for us. So it seems like they're considering the right things. I am choosing to be cautiously optimistic about what we may see on track here. But there's a long way to go between now and the 2030s when we will actually see racing in Rwanda. And I definitely want to be positive about Africa joining the rest of the world in F1 because I grew up in a world where America did not embrace F1 and I'd be reaching out there and just be like, "I want our American friends to think we're cool." And then we had Indianapolis 2005 where only six cars made it to the grid because I think it was the Michelin runners who could not get through one of the temporary hairpins around that kind of oval track. So yeah, so six cars ended up going around and you've got to watch the podium from that because I think the Ferrari's came one too and I can't remember the driver who came third but it was like a rear midfield driver and they had sent to the drivers be muted on the podium. But this guy was like, "No, I'm third. I've got my first third place. I'm on the podium. I am celebrating this." As they should, why not? Absolutely, I completely back that decision. So when America has embraced F1 in the last, what, seven, eight years? Like properly, properly, I felt really great. So if we can reach out to the African continent and people living in Africa and say, "BF1 fans as well." Like, "No, yeah, you might not support the same person as me or have the same opinions." But like, "I want to argue with you. I'm arguing with people in Shanghai. I'm arguing with people in Toronto. I'm arguing with people around the world specifically." You're an equal opportunity arguer, which I deeply respect. A lot of time in Amsterdam, but fuck, that's fine. I get it. Like, they earned their place in my heart of arguing online. So honestly, like, I'm so in love with F1 as a concept and motorsport as a concept that, yes, bring that entire continent into F1 for sure. And so the last thing I want to do is be negative. And I don't ever want to be negative to the ringer management, right? But why are all the press who got invited out there to that press conference who I assume had a very lovely time in a five-star hotel and then writing this splendid very optimistic things about what I think is a, you know, it's not a hundred percent chance of this growing pre-happening. Why won't we, they're mech? Why won't we, they're being wind and dined? And why are we not now here spouting talking points that have been fed to us by the FIA, which we would gladly do because we just have brilliant time in a five-star hotel? All right, this is on you, Meg. Any negativity I have now? It's on you. Great. I will take that gladly. I will take it on. It's not serious though. When this race happens, I would love to go. I think it would be incredible. I'm skeptical of the race happening. So I've been, no shade to the concept of it, but it is absolutely being presented as a sure thing. So it's being presented as we have decided we are having an African grown pre. So it's not the Rwanda grown pre. It's the African grown pre and Rwanda was presented by the Rwandan tourism border or something like that. There's like a little dendam at the end of the name. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. Because which is co-ta the US grown pre? Yes. And also in Europe, we've had a European grown pre. So we've said, yes, there's the regular tracks. There's the British grown pre. But if we go to Brandt Hatch, that can be the European grown pre. So we've got a Hockenheim and the other German track. I'm so sorry. A Nordschleife as well. But you go, OK, so that can be a European grown pre. If we need an extra grown pre, it's kind of like a rolling roll to say we can have this kind of guest spot where Europe is somewhere that can be represented by a track. So in theory, you go, OK, calling it the African grown pre is great. Because what it's saying is it's not just Rwanda as a country. It's the whole continent. But only cynicism towards that is, Dominic Harley, I think, made a statement that said, it's unselfish of Rwanda to call it that. Yes. It also does give them a pretty good get out. Because if it doesn't come to fruition, You could have the African Grand Prix at, say, a Kailama in South Africa, and nothing's changed because it was always going to be the African Grand Prix. The reason I'm kind of cynical is because I've been following Formula One since the '80s as a kid, and you do have a lot of tracks that are announced that don't make it. So when a new track is announced, I would just say don't just assume that that will come to fruition. So for example, you know, Vietnam was going to be, there was going to be a Vietnam Grand Prix, that was announced, then we're going to go through it, but things fall through. There was going to be a London City Street track Grand Prix. The New York Grand Prix was announced as well, and then I don't know if it was announced officially, but there was a Copenhagen Grand Prix as well, because, you know, you had Magnus in there too. So there is a long history of tracks being announced and then falling by the wayside. So my question to people watching all the press stuff that has been released, the very positive message, we're having a Grand Prix, an African Grand Prix in Rwanda, it's going to be a ten-year contract. Here's a drawing we asked ChapGPT to do of what a Rwanda Grand Prix layout might look like, and we'll put Herman Tillka's name on it, even though I think it's his son, I think he's it. Yes, it's not Herman Tillka, no, no. Yeah, so, but, but, but the, the, the renders that F1 put out, it said, you know, concept by Herman Tillka. And my question would be, who do you think all of these press releases have been aimed at? Because it's not aimed at me as an F1 fan, it's not aimed at the press because the press will be, to a certain extent, beholden to their accreditation and what they've been instructed to say, it is a direct message to investors. Yes, look, the fan of the Minikali has set ten-year contract, 2030. And, and this is like, I don't want to be cynical, it's just, I'm, I'm just old enough to be this cynical. For example, there will be an African Grand Prix in 2030, well, sometime in the early 2030s, anyway, sometime, sometime in the early 20s. Which could be like 2034, would count, wouldn't it? But they, this is a call to investors. Yeah, and I actually don't think that's a cynical read. I think F1's been pretty open about that being part of the reason that they called that the African Grand Prix was to try and draw investment from elsewhere around the continent. There's also notably like a lot of things that have to happen before this race can happen. So, the, the airport, the international airport in Kagali is under some massive construction that's due to be finished in 2028. That will obviously need to be done before this Grand Prix can happen. They're also trying to build up hotels, entertainment facilities, a lot of things around this circuit, to house visitors, people coming to this Grand Prix from around the world. So, all of that I think definitely feeds into why they have not set an actual date for this yet, because all of this infrastructure needs to exist before you can actually host an F1 race. You can't just have the track. This is a moving global circus and you need a lot, a lot of infrastructure around it to make it feasible. I think the biggest thing is they don't know for sure how much money they're going to have and how many investors they're going to have. So, the exercise here seems to be to tell investors that they now approach that there's been this press release and like sure you want to be on board with the first African Grand Prix in such and such years. But all I'm, all I'm trying to say to F1 fans is this kind of thing does get announced from time to time. These are business decisions and if you have any experience in project management and really the only claim I can make is being brought in as a subject matter expert for future concepts in defense. So, you know, I'll get brought in. There'll be a room of expert. You're there for three and a half hours. I've not said anything the entire time. The aerodynamics guy has said something. The explosive guy has said something. You know, and they come to me and they say, okay, well, obviously we need to be able to change the batteries for the BIOS computer in house and you go, no, we can't do that because of priority security things. Every time you want to do that, it has to come back to the UK and they go, oh, well, that ruins everything. I know, but that's why you brought me here. Sorry, that's not me. I'm just telling you things. And then you go, okay, so go back to the drawing board. So there's a concept phase. And then once you agree that in theory, you can do it. You then have an assessment phase, which then says, okay, well, can we actually bring money in? What do we present to people? So like, this show will bring a media pack to sponsors and say, oh, I'm going to make a spanner do this thing and these people kind of listen. And then you go through that. And then once you've got those people in, then you have to go through a kind of, like a demonstration phase where you go, this is exactly what we're going to do now. Do you want it? So there's all these milestones. Yeah. Before you even get to the point where you start, you know, hiring contractors to lay down tarmac and to build things. And if you look at Madrid, you know, you look at the pictures in the summer and you can see how those phases push pretty close to the start. Very close. I bet behind the scenes, it was a lot of frantic stuff. So there are milestones, there are, there's money to, and so what we were looking at with Madrid was, okay, well, all the money's in place, all the contractors are in place. Now we have to get this done. And with this, what we've been told today, we're so far before that. Like, there's no money. There's no money sourced. There's a concept. But if you look at that render, the render is so rushed. And I did, I DMed some journalists. And I like teasing them because I know they can't admit to basic things. Like in the render, it was an anti-clockwise thing, right? They didn't include the backstreet in that render, which would be the only deal overtaken zone. One of the architect's main points is they were like, they were like, when you look at this, remember that part of this track is not here. And that's where the render then, because this is what is telling me that all this stuff was not aimed at me. It wasn't aimed at you. It wasn't aimed at people who, obviously, if you put that render out, people are going to start analyzing it as a racetrack. And as put out, you go, there's no overtaking points there. What are they doing? This is a Moto GP track. And then you look at the quotes from Alex Verts, Alex Verts, who's been doing simulator laps on it. A big red flag is where they say, well, we really want to enhance the driver experience. And you go, yes, with apologies to the drivers, I don't give a flying turnip about their experience. But I think that's where Tilca has come in and said, we know that we know we know all of this stuff, but we have these other things in front of mine. So I do genuinely hope that they're able to strike a balance here. And I just want to say, like, to kind of close out this conversation that I hope us, like, raising these concerns doesn't come across as like us not wanting this to happen because we very much wanted to happen and think it will be like a very, very cool experience. But we're also trying to just raise, like, realistic things and stepping stones on the path to this potentially happening. We didn't get invited to the press conference to hotel. So, if you want me to start, like, you know, doing your lines, like, I'm very, very viable. And I think to a certain extent, like, we are as a team, reasonably our principles are for sale. It's just that we, we've gone down this path before. So what I would say is there is no funding in place for this corporate. This stage, there is, there is a two billion dollar investment, I guess, so far that is partially being funded by Qatar. I, okay, I, my understanding is the two billion figure quoted in the race. Yes, is about the broader concept of the area, including like the airport. Yes, but I don't want that to indicate it is about the construction happening around the circuit. Yes, but I do think that's an important point of infrastructure for this race to happen. Wait a minute. Did you get invited to the press conference? And I didn't know that's what I just, I just don't want to say there's no funding because there is some funding. It's just not directly allocated to the race track. Also at this press conference, it was announced by the FIA president, Mohammed Ben Saleim, that V8 engines will be returning to F1 in 2030. Previously, it was believed that this would happen sometime around 2031 when I think Ben Saleim would have had the power to push this through essentially on his own accord. But he said at the event that he, I guess, now has the backing of FOM and the manufacturers to go ahead with this in 2030 instead. I have yet to see comment from Formula One proper or manufacturers about this specifically, but he said pretty confidently, I guess, in this press conference that he thinks it will happen in 2030. Which is interesting, a year ahead of the initial timeline that we got here, but he seemed very, very, that this has been like a pet project of his for a while now he's wants to bring. He said not the noise of Formula One back, but the, I forget what the other word he used, it was something basically equivalent to noise. The sound back to Formula One, I was like, don't those things basically mean the same thing, but I digress. Anyway, Sranor, how do you feel about V8 engines in 2030? Yeah, mixed. I mean, so is it fair to say that your experience of an F1 found has always been hybrids? Yes. Yes. So the sound is very, very different. I think it was quite start going to Silverstone in, or forgive me, I think it might have been 2015. And he got, oh, that's a very, very different sound. As an engineer, and as a repair engineer, diagnostic engineer, if I hear a bad sound, a loud sound, it's normally bad. So, yeah, if you loud sound are inefficient. So if you hear a sound, it's because your energy that you want to divert into effort, which is the physics term effort, it is being wasted. So all the noise you can hear is energy that could have been effort. So in my mind, noise is inefficient. However, you cannot deny that there's a classic sound throughout Formula One with the knee-out sound. And if I may, if I may, please. That was good. Do you practice that at home, just walking around the house? Not my first time. So it's the classic kind of doppler effect of an F1 car, you know, going around a screaming V12, screaming V10, you know, these engines without the hybrids as well with much, much lighter cars, it was something that I think is a little of its time. So newer fans who have enjoyed going to their local Grand Prix, like, you know, you've been to Miami a few times and watch these cars. When the V8s come, it will be a different experience for you. And I heavily suspect that a lot of people are going to leave the stadium going, why? Why is that loud? It's so loud. But like, if you go and see, like, work and stuff, you know, again, you know, that has been, you've got kind of hybrids in there as well now. And you know, I remember going there when my kids were very little, going to see endurance races, and we've all got ear defenders on. You do not need ear defenders for a modern Formula One race. And so the only time this season, oh, two times, I've seen the regs this season turn 11 at Miami, because we were very kindly hosted by Red Bull. And also the pop-up hotel at Silverstone, it was alarming how quiet they were. So this season has taken an even bigger step down. The problem at trackside is you will then get even FIA Academy, which is like F4 cars, go past and go, oh, that's a race car sound. But I'm just not sure people are actually prepared for a V8 screaming past the eight-year-olds is. And think, oh, no, oh, my darling's eardrums. Yeah. So it's going to be a shock to the system. In general, though, I do support it. But I don't support the reasoning that's going to come around it. So I don't support that noise is necessarily good. I don't support that we're going to be. And this is my personal opinion, not that of the ringers. I don't support that we are going to be told that because it's sustainable fuels, that somehow offsets that this is my personal opinion, which is that you're never going to make the road network run on sustainable fuels. Therefore, to me, that just feels like, hey, I know, I know we're going away from like this renewable thing that if we have a battery that is also in part charged by renewable sources, then we have this green thing. I know that you guys kind of kind of like that, but these are sustainable. We're going to go moss in a loving vat and kittens are going to gently lick it. And then the kittens, the love from the kittens will make it sustainable. And it's like, no, I just don't buy that argument because you are never going to make sustainable fuels part, the thing that drives the road network. So it will make people feel better. And it will give petrochemical companies and manufacturers that run on petrochemical companies, this kind of eco-friendly thing to push out. I personally don't buy that. So I will, I'll reject that argument. However, there is no need for an F1-grown pre-car to have a hybrid. And in my opinion, hybrids have only made F1 cars heavier, bigger, less nimble, less able to overtake. And was there not a similar argument in horse racing when, okay, well, people ride round on horses? Okay, but now people have got carriages behind the horses. So now all horse racing has to have carriages behind it. I don't remember that era of horse racing. And this road relevant thing to me is like the, the drive for road relevance is around the manufacturers. But so because it's Mohammed Ben Saleem, the FIA president that has just said it, how we had that confirmed by one Liberty media who want money from the OEMs, from the manufacturers who want it to be road relevant. So Ben Saleem has said directly that he has support from the FOM and the manufacturers, whether that is, you know, vocalized publicly at any point soon will be a different question. That was your diversion from what the OEMs and Liberty have been doing in the party. It would. But, you know, I will look forward to that confirmation coming soon, hopefully, maybe. As far as the noise, listen, like, I have been going to concerts without your muffs or your buds or anything in my entire life. I shouldn't, but my ears are already shot. So in terms of, like, hearing a V8 engine come around, I look forward to it. I'm already, my ear drums are already messed up for life. Like I, I'm ready. I'm ready to hear that. That explains why you put up with so much of my crap. I don't think any of it goes in. I just don't actually hear anything that you say. I'm just talking to myself on the show. But it's the same on my wife's musician as well. And I feel like maybe she's lost like a bit of like frequency at certain ranges. And so I've had for various reasons explosive sound to the right hand side. You can figure that out for yourself if you want. And I just know like for certain conversations, or if it's further right, I have to point lefty at it because that's my good. I've got to point my old good ear at it as well. So, you know, ear drum damages serious kids. It is. It is. My dad had a lot of like inner ear stuff as a kid. And when we would go to a sporting event or any place where we were like seated next to each other, I was always on the left hand side because if I was on the right hand side and tried speaking to him, he would not be able to hear anything that I said. That's interesting. He would just not right. He would go way over his head. So, yes, I'm with you on that part of it. It starts as a powder. I add a little water and it gently exfoliates without feeling harsh, leaving my skin feeling smoother and looking brighter, which my morning face appreciates. Visit Dermalogica.com and use code ringer F1. That's ringer F-O-N-E at cart for an exclusive gift with your $65 purchase. 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These aren't all the side effects. Ask your doctor about caplida. Learn more at caplida.com or call 888-2524824. Are we ready to talk about Christian Horner again, who happens to be back in the news that fellow can't stay out of the news? He recently gave an interview to Donald McCray of the Guardian about a whole host of things, his Red Bull ousting, what his life has been like since F1, what it would take to get him back on the grid, so on, and so forth. I won't rehash the entire interview here, but there were a few notable sections that I feel like we needed to address. The first of which is that Horner still very much seems to have a victim adjacent mentality about his firing and why he was let go from Red Bull. In the interview, he called Red Bull a brutal team. He said, history repeats itself, not all teams act in that way. A lot of teams haven't delivered over the years, but you don't see the same brutality as when I left. We had pole position at the previous race. He went on to say that Helmet Marco had stayed as a guest at his home two days before the firing and didn't happen to mention that it was coming down the pike, which like, why would he stay at your house? That would be the most awkward conversation of all time. Hey, I'm going to go to bed, Christian, but also like, you're going to get fired in two days. Can you pass the potatoes? Well, I could, or I could tell you that you're fired. Or I could throw them in your face. Horner also said he wasn't really given a reason for his firing, other than maybe people felt he had too much control in the team. When he was asked directly, if he thought it had anything to do with the sexual harassment allegations filed against him by a female employee, he said, "I'd come through that." missed them. So this was more focused on performance in the future. He went on to say, I've said enough about it in the book. And previously, and here is where I'll know Christian Horner has written a book. I have not read it. But a great has. And he kind of rebutted Horner's statement. He said that Horner doesn't actually get into those allegations or the details of his defense against them in the book. Hilarious to me that he's like, I have no idea why I got fired. I was never told. I'm like, well, there's really a whole host of reasons. And I could probably tell them up to you right now. I just wonder if he's alone in a room and he really, really thought about it and sat down and just gone, hmm, of all the things that happened around that time, or maybe a bit before, oh, wait a minute. Was it about the stuff with the late, like that was obviously the catalyst. And then there was then this eternal internal, and then it seemed like there was kind of a take over attempt. And it kind of really reminded me of like the movie Valkyrie, you know, where there was people who were trying to go, okay, but we can then this war tomorrow, if we can just get enough of us to agree and move forward. But then they all get found out and then, you know, and they, you know, I'm thinking of better times and then everything ends. But it's this, this, this tour that Christian Horner has been on is, is like a, I'm going to say things. I'm going to tell my side of the story without saying anything about the stuff that happened. So there's very clear elephants in the room that people would like answers to. But we do not know the ultimate truth. And I'm very, very comfortable with people should be innocent until proven guilty. I think that's an outstanding and good safeguard in law. But, you know, someone made the move to leak WhatsApp messages. And to me, those WhatsApp messages led me to a conclusion. And I, there may have been legal reasons at the time why he could not have said, those WhatsApp messages were fake. I did not send those WhatsApp messages. Because me with my human eyes, I read those and I went, oh, this depicts this. Yes. And so you can't have a tour where you go, okay, oh, yeah, no, what was your word? They said, oh, but I dismissed those. They were fine. They were gone. Yeah. They were dismissed. All of that. So what the hell? And I think that even come from. Yeah. Yeah. And then to say, to say, well, I address all of that. And he was also asked you about how it had affected his relationship with his wife. And things like that. And he said, well, you know, I've, I've discussed it all in the book. I've said all I can say about that. And then, you know, Permacres reading that apparently was not covered to any level of satisfaction, which, again, I haven't read the book, but I'm assuming that the journalist who wrote this piece did pretty thoroughly. So yeah, just just to, to have this kind of like image rehabilitation press tour and not actually address any of the reasons that you need to really rehabilitate your image, doesn't, you know, doesn't really do anything for me. I'll say that much. All we can say is what we would do. If, if there was a series of WhatsApp messages leaked to every journalist in my trade that made it look like I did, what it looks like happened in those WhatsApp messages, my number one priority. And give it, bear in mind, he's got money. He's got lands. He's got money. He's fine. My number one priority would be to say, I did not do what was depicted in, I would just say it. So me, so me to the ground, but I would be absolutely adamant to just go 100% what was depicted there. I did not do that. And I did not send those messages. And I did not behave like that. And that hasn't happened. And I don't know why. But as a direct result of that, that's all we can judge it on. And then this, this tour, this redemption tour has done nothing to make up for that. He blames not, you know, a lack of denial or anything but a lack of him speaking publicly about this on legal things, which may, which may be the case could also be a defense, like, oh, my, you know, my lawyer says there's stuff I can't talk about, which is fine. Or not fine, whatever that doesn't satisfy me as a person. And he doesn't have to satisfy me. All I'm speaking, I think to the broader community. And he wants to make like this comeback tour where he wants to reestablish himself as a personality and formula one that can lead an F1 team. And, and I don't blame him as a person for trying to continue the massive success and the life that he craves. Like you, you, you, you put so much personality around a job you love. I've had jobs I've hated. And I haven't put any investment in that. But this job I love. And I would go, okay, no, I, I would do anything to get back in. When, when you eventually sack me, I'll be doing everything I can to get, to get back in there. So he's doing this tour. But it's just all I'm saying is as I commentate as a ponder, he's not doing enough to change the minds of the people who had decided things before. And I, I think to like, like taking the harassment allegations out of this interview, something else that's like very off putting to me is he doesn't really seem to take much of any level of accountability for like other reasons that Red Bull may have fired him. You know, kind of he, he addresses a little bit the helmet, Marco, you know, for stabbing stuff where he was like, I felt like there was some stuff going on behind the scenes. And he was asked about it a little more directly and was like, oh, that's all I'm going to say. He does have, you know, kind of the level of like, oh, I can't, like I can't believe they fired me. Like things were going so well. He talks, you know, and a couple of different points about how well Red Bull power trains is doing, which of course is a project that he helped start. And the fact that he's, you know, through text messages from people within Red Bull and stuff like that, receiving a lot of credit and praise, which he certainly deserves to a certain extent, but like to be giving that in interviews and stuff, it feels very self-promotional, which I guess is the point of this tour. But if you're trying to change hearts and minds about who Christian Horner maybe is, I don't feel like this is the way to go about too. From a sporting point of view, like I have absolutely, I don't have anything really negative to say about him as a team principal. And you know, I've said from a sporting point of view, if you're Ferrari and he's a free agent, I think you 100% have to bring in Christian Horner as a CEO just from what he could bring. Yeah. So if you get like hearts and minds or whatever and press or ever, if you want to bring in someone above Fred Vassil, or whoever will be team principal in 2027, because I don't think it's going to be Fred Vassil. A CEO top level, not the guy that's in the ear of everyone, but the person who's like developing the culture and the strategy and the way they go about things. It's a no-brainer. If Ferrari can get Christian Horner, get Christian Horner. I'm just objecting to the way he's trying to change his image without giving us anything substantial to change his image. Yes. Speaking of Ferrari, he did address his F1 future and the Ferrari comments that we have been talking about for a couple of months now. He said that those previous comments were taken somewhat out of context. And that his overarching aim is still to re-enter the sport in an ownership capacity. So as to, you know, he didn't say directly whether he would be Ferrari team principal without an ownership stake, but he has said, I raised a lot of capital. I have all this money sitting here. I'm like ready to invest and be part of an ownership group. And he said, you know, I was just trying to compliment Ferrari. They are, you know, the biggest brand in the sport and all of that kind of stuff. So there's no, it means Jon Elke said no. Jon Elke said no. So now he says, he's changing. So that's that. Anything else Christian Horner that you want to cover before we move on? No, honestly, like I've been dancing the line of being employed or not already. So happy to move on. Let's move on. Cost cap rules, Williams, and notably another super fun topic for us to discuss. We're just really, we got a lot of lines to want. How can we really put all our careers on the line? Let's just go all out. How many ways can we do this? Cost cap rule. So James Valles has been pushing for Cost cap reform and F1 starting in 2027. His team is advocating for a, quote, catch up mechanism, which would be designed to give smaller teams the capability to invest more money in their program as the season goes along. Per the race, the idea is for teams that are behind in the constructor's championship standings to be given greater spending allowances in an effort to help them catch up to the, you know, generally bigger front running teams. Valles has said this is necessary because the advantages, the bigger teams locked in before the cost cap was initiated. So this is facilities, top end technology, things like that that the smaller teams did not have locked in at that time and are now trying to play catch up for. Valles said in Singapore this week, I could spend my entire budget, my op ex budget for one year in all the facilities I need. It's 200 million. That's what I'm missing right now. That means every year across 10 years, I'll take another 20 million of a hit for coming to that compared to my rivals down the road. That's not a fair fight, which, you know, is, is a fair, fair point to make. This proposal is set to be discussed at the F1 commission meeting in November with a vote to be taken there for it to pass. Valles and Williams will need six of the 11 teams to sign on. Or if they're willing to wait for this measure to go into effect until 2028, they only need four teams. At present, it sounds like they have support from Cadillac, Aston Martin, Audi, and Alpine, which is like no price is there. For real? Do you promise? Yeah. That's what I have seen. That's what I have seen from the reporting, which is interesting because Haas is notably not a supporter of this. And I've been wondering if that is sort of like an edict from Ferrari, given that they're a customer team. But, but But Cadillac, maybe it's because Cadillac is starting to build their own engine and is like, we would like more money too, please, like that would be great for us. We'll see. But Haas, yeah, it's not a part of this. Val's, I guess, was attempting to recruit racing bulls to get on board, but of course, they are following the lead of Red Bull and have said, we think things are fine as they are. So things don't look great for Williams in 2027, but as Val's has said, they only need four teams for this to pass in 2028. So if things hold with the addition of Williams in that group, they would have five. And it looks like this could be a functional change for 2028. I think this is outrageous of you, Meg, like, can you point to even one time in history where a privileged and powerful group of people have acted in the way to protect their interests? That's what you're doing. This is crazy. That the quotes, the quotes from Total Wolf on this are like hysterical. I'm going to find them. We got to read them. They're so funny, oh my gosh. But please, please. No, you can continue. I will search for them. I will find them. You don't have to worry. For me, the one has always been a tie at a sport where, you know, the rich get richer. And if you can throw money at it, it's been this very tempting, almost pyramid scheme. So, you know, everyone would go and tout themselves to manufacturers like Mercedes and Ferrari and the Fiat group have been there from the beginning, but on smaller scale, they'd say, right, we're opening up the rules. Well, we're going to make it cheaper. We're going to do a budget cap. And then they bring in the likes of Kateram, Mauritius, and you have these three teams at the back of the grid who've signed up, who've invested, and they're waiting for this cost cap to come in. It never comes in. Those three teams end up going bust and they go away. But they're always dancing this line of, okay, well, Honda, you can come in, right? You know, beer, beer engine manufacturer and come in as a full works team. But then, you know, global markets change for Honda and they end up going bust and I'm sure F1 will have in some way helped Braun GP get in in 2009 and they have this great romantic story of this independent team that came from nowhere. And so there's this balance of, is F1 a purely ladder sport like, say, the English soccer ladder, where a team, I could start a team tomorrow in like the 12 tier with a little bit investment with a little bit of a stadium. And we could, like Rexham did from the fifth tier, work themselves up the Ryan Reynolds and Rob McNally one, like they'd have genuinely lifted themselves up or you could be like Manchester City and be a top tier midfield team and then allegedly just exploit every trading rule and build a team of superstars, which you shouldn't be able to do. And then like you look at Newcastle who have the same amount of money but have been able to do nothing because they did stick to the rules. So, but there is this romance where you go, yeah, you can come in at the ground level and they have sold this dream to a lot of teams, a lot of independent people all the way even in the 70s and you look at like James Hunt and his team is Hegsworth, Hegsworth where he was like, yeah, you can come into F1, like it's not much different to the amount of money you're spending in F2 and then they go bankrupt as well. And like how much money Toyota throw at the dream, BMW as well in the early 2000s and there was this dream that you could either work your way from the bottom or be such a powerful manufacturer that you come in and just bullets the opposition and the only manufacturer that has really done that recently has been Mercedes. So, Mercedes took over a brawn, they built up for three or four years and then suddenly they just destroyed the opposition so beyond the no illusion, 2014, 2015, 2016 with Rosberg and Hamilton trading blows and championships and into 18, 19, 20, they had a massive advantage in terms of staff. They could hire 1,000 people, 1,500 people where you'd have some teams with like 200 people. So, pre-cost cap, you could essentially buy a championship as a major manufacturer and when you look at engineering, it isn't that a team of people are who, which team of people is best at designing the real wing end plate? No, we can have three teams of people and then we'll pick the best one and also we can pay the wages for those people, we can pick absolutely the best people because our salary kind of our salary expectations for our staff are so much higher. But the interesting thing for me, if I'm to go off on a rant, is the cost cap was designed in such a way that the franchise teams, because everyone is a franchise sport now, for years to go, no, it's not a franchise sport, anyone could come in. And then it was like, well, anyone could come in if you have $200 million, oh sorry, did I say $200 billion? I mean, $400 million and then drive to survive a Netflix, they go, oh, it should have been $800 million. We are going to have a $3 billion valued team at some point in the next decade. And so, actually, the way the cost cap works now is to ensure that those teams who were making profit and who are winning will make profit regardless of what they do. So Mercedes cannot win and they will make $30 to $60 million out of an F1 season, which is an irresistible thing for like a domler group to sign up to. But they already have these facilities, McLaren, who pre-cost cap weren't doing much and weren't succeeding and were at the back of the grid, but they had all these facilities historically built up. So they were historically a good team that went down and then they've come back up. They didn't come from nowhere. This is a championship winning team. If you look at their facilities, it is like a space station. So this is a team with facilities and it's attractive. It's got a good location. It's got a great history. So the Williams does have a good history. But it's been a little longer, I think, and their facilities have kind of not upgraded in that same way. So are you going to attract and retain staff in the same way? Are you able to take advantage of technologies that even Aston Martin have access to, that Mercedes, Red Bull, Ferrari, Marinello and McLaren have access to? No, you're not. So James Vowels is sitting there having left Mercedes who had all that advantage, who have had all the negotiating strength and power in the cost cap negotiations. And now he's on the outside going, can we get more investment to catch up with those guys at the front? Please don't make it have some more money. But there's no incentive for those guys. So if Mercedes goes to F1 and FOM and they say, I see those proposals, they could be really up front and go, you know where you get a lot of business from us. We're pretty powerful here, right? So I'm going to say no to that because I'd rather finish second and third, sometimes than have Alpine and Williams actually be able to invest and catch up with us. There's no incentive for those top teams. It's a franchise sport and some franchises are worth more than others and some franchises have more power than others. It has been very, very funny to watch these top teams switch their brains to now being very in love with the cost cap and wanting to defend the structure in the integrity of it. Why do they love something that is meant to hobble that? Why do they love it? Because it's keeping everybody else down, Spanners, that's why. So the funniest quote I saw about this was from Alan Parmain, who I'm sure is kind of echoing the wider Red Bull sentiment here. No. The last cap he said, I think it served us very well for the six years we're into it. Now I think it served Formula One very, very well. Maybe there are tweaks to do for sure. But if you want to spend a whole load of money on CapEx, you can, the mechanism's in there. So if James wants to go and spend $100 million on something, he can do that. He can just pay it off over the next number of years. Just go spend $100 million. Why? You can just pay it off. He has to commit to not being able to upgrade, not being able to increase his wage bill. So that was his right, but it's kind of like, it's a little, it's a little bit naive. I think if it comes off a little naive, because of course, they were going to protect their interests. Oh, there's a cost cap. Everyone's going to have the same chance now. No. No, it was money. Why would they do that? And it is hello, like Alan Parmain, like he is not someone who won't be outspoken. And he's not someone, I'm pretty sure at home, he's pretty outspoken or whatever, but he's not going to sit there and go, oh, it's terrible what Red Bull and Ferrari and Mercedes and McLaren had. How could they do that? How dare they keep him? He likes to be employed, which I respect. It's great. Total wolf for his part in this said that he felt like they should consider other changes to the cost cap rules, like being able to pay top people higher wages so that they could grab industry best talent. I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I don't think that's what we're talking about here. I think that would have exactly the rich teams. Exactly. Well, and then, so he's talking about that. And then he also said he does not like the idea of a sliding scale because he thinks this would be akin to having balance of performance issues. And I was like, we already have balance issues. And now what you're proposing is a bigger balance of performance, it's just, oh, god, it's so funny. It's so funny watching all these people protect their interests. Yeah. I'm seeing it in the, I'm not massively a soccer guy anymore. Like, as a kid, and I played till I was like 37, and, you know, I got normally a cult just the night in fan, but I can't claim any kind of status. I would never kick anyone out. of their seat. I look at the state of the money that flooded into the Premier League. When I grew up, the English Premier League or the First Division was not like a glamour league in the world. Now it's arguably the most high profile league in the world. Everyone wants to pour money in. And a lot of that money that comes in is from states as well. So states are putting money in and they're invested and they will put pressure on governing bodies and go, "Well, if you don't do this, let's see what your trade secretary thinks of such and such a thing." And we're almost kind of at that point in F1 as well because I'm sure that Daimler will be talking to FIM. I'm sure the Italian trade minister will be talking to Stefano Di Manicale as well, you know? Have you ever watched the show on Netflix, The Diplomat? With care, it's great. I would recommend it. It's about like a USA ambassador to the UK and all of the kind of like inner workings and like machinations that go on behind the scenes. And this is what it's starting to remind me of. Because she has to go to like the foreign secretary for this one thing and then she's going to the like labor minister for this other thing and then she's talking to so and so on. But this person wants that and then she has to go back to that person to trade for this other thing that's happening in the Netherlands. And it's like, "Oh my god, it's like you have to take a deep breath." And then they all watch James Vowel's going, "Hey, can we get some more infrastructure?" And they're like, "Oh, no, no, let's be so meeting about why you have to stay in a horizontal cage for the rest of your F1 career." So yeah, I think James Vowel's like his motivation is like the reality of going, "Oh, I had ideas. In theory, we've got the same cost cap as everybody else. But if you look at no disrespect to the William Staff at all, but first dibs to the staff will have gone to those top teams and they'll be at higher salary." So he'll go, "Oh, Derek left. What do you mean Derek left? Yeah, because you've got offered like 10 grand more. If you're 31 with a new kid, 10,000 euros more." That's a big deal, isn't it? Like that's a big deal. And you get to have better facilities. So you say to Derek, you say, "Yeah, that wind tunnel you've got where it was like, I was just like, "Oh, you couldn't get all the arrow you can eat, Derek." It's just a little whisper of wind. You'll be full. You'll have indigestion from the amount of arrow you can eat. And so yeah, so he's probably seen that structurally that the appeal that the big teams have because of their infrastructure and their success, we can't compete with that. And it's almost like teams, they're almost like a feeder team to the bigger teams because they will see staff go, "Oh, we want to get to the McLaren tech center from here because it's better." Like even if the wages are the same, thank you for training me. I'm now taking this McLaren contract. And he's like, "Well, but if we increase our facilities and we do that, that would be great." But the rules don't account for that. And just at the moment it comes across as him coping with realising that he cannot just go to Williams and recreate what he saw at Mercedes. And we're kind of seeing that unfold in real time. And for a team principal, he's relatively young. So for that position, position, he's by age, for that level of responsibility on the world stage in management of an F1 team, he's relatively young. It's the same age as Fernando Alonzo, who is relatively old, position that he is in. How dare you, I dare you, Colin Mald. No, it's just because I only just caught up with Fernando Alonzo's radio messages from the Singapore Grand Prix. And he was absolutely losing his crap at his team because he was trying to e-cowell at one-tenth, two-tenths lap. He's like really grinding out there. And I'm sure that he said, "This is the best race I ever did, my greatest ever Singapore Grand Prix." But then he had to let the staff in past. And the team didn't tell him whatever. And then he lost like two seconds. He went, "Oh, now do another 20 laps to catch up with that." Like, yes, you are as frustrated as someone who should be a senior manager in an organization, but is putting fries in the bag. Being an F1 driver is a very glamorous thing. But in the whole scope of an F1 driver, you are doing an entry-level job. Look at David Coolthought, could have been a world champion, has gone through, he's like an executive in media, a great ponder is enjoying his life and do whatever he wants. Mika Hakan and as well, Mika Hakan and I spent the entire last 15 years just doing speaking tours and getting infinite money. That's the final form of an F1 driver. You're not supposed to be there when you're 45. You're supposed to be James Vowel starting again and getting things wrong and eventually becoming the greatest team principal of all time. All you make is David Coolthought who went through various phasor and then build this whisper films thing and do great stuff with Channel 4 before doing your own kind of media stuff. But you meant to evolve. He missed the cocoon phase. He has not gone into his F1 driver cocoon. He's still a caterpillar. I would love to hear F1 broadcaster Fernando Alonzo because he would just, I feel like he would just tell it like it is and he would talk to you about which drivers actually suck and who messed up on that corner and who flopped this thing and like, oh, I think it would be really great. Even better, he should be, he should be, he should set up a, he's already got a car track where he teaches kids. He should set up a F3 team like Lando Norris has been doing. I think Max Verstappen has said, oh yeah, this is great what Lando Norris is doing, but I want to keep like racing and doing sim racing and stuff. Fernando Alonzo, if Fernando Alonzo just went right, okay, I'm going to set up in Spain, a cart and F2 F3 excellent center and the best, very best cars, no matter where they come from, no matter what their financial stay is, I just want the fastest kids with the best attitude and let's put them in cars and let's teach them how to set things up. Let's put them with great engineers and let's see what their feedback is like and let's stop having Formula One just being full of brilliant airs. Fernando Alonzo could literally do that, but he's just, he's just, he's keep, he keeps putting the fries in the bag. No, evolve, become a butterfly Fernando because you could do, a lot of it. Much before me. I wanted to give one final note on Singapore, there was no transition there, I just moved along. You're a segway ever. I don't even care, so I just wanted to let your butterfly, butterfly point stand. One final note on Singapore and our Camille Antonelli discussion. So Antonelli did officially have four lap times deleted, four track limits during the race, which should have led to a five second penalty, but Mercedes apparently challenged one of the violations and the stewards revoked it. So that is why a penalty never came. It does not take away from Total Wolf's comments after the race about Camille needing a hotel pillow under his butt on the seats that he was able to see the track. So we'll all of us have those comments, so thank you to Total Wolf for this. But as to our confusion after the race about why he did not have a penalty, I guess Mercedes challenged one of them and one that challenged. So personally, I feel like there was probably another one out there where he went off, but I don't have any proof of that. So there you go. That's it. Okay, but what if you don't need, what if we live in a world where you don't need proof on vibes? How many track violation penalties should Camille Antonelli have had? He has had more lap times. No, I just wanted to say he has had more lap times deleted four track limits than any other driver this season. So this is not like an invention in our head. This is like real data driven stuff that he has gone off the track more times than any other driver this year. So how many penalties should he have had? I will go with six. Wow, Italy, are you hearing this? Meg Schuster thinks your hero, he's six penalties. That's crazy. In his, in his defense, in his defense, I don't know that many of those would have had a monumental impact on where he ended up finishing. So I don't actually think that's like a bad thing. And maybe in a couple of races, it would have affected him, but like in this race, I don't know if it would have. I just want to stop hearing the land and knowledge team radio where it's like, you know, press the button and you hear the like do do do do whatever and it's like and you see land on ours. Guys, I just, Antonelli, yeah, we know, we know, yeah, yeah, if you could just go ahead and report that to the FIA and it's honestly, I think there's a stick, a really long stick from the McLaren pit wall to whoever runs track limits and they've gone, and then use this use the stick. And if you're not seeing the track limits and what you didn't use the stick, yeah, I didn't think we had to. I thought the stick was a metaphor for you paying attention. Finally, use the stick. How many? Well, no, are you are you a Simpson fan at all? Yes, of course. The meme, the meme, the meme where it's like don't make me tap the sign that's the answer for Kim Antonelli track limits. I'm a clarin like don't make me tap the sign. He's doing it again. It's here. Why is McLaren the champion of staying on track in the race car race? When did that happen? You could not have predicted that Landonoris and his pit wall would become, like the the champions of this one very small, very niche injustice that no one cares about, that no one takes any action over. It is just Landonoris and his engineer and make sure. I care, I care. I care. Why is he allowed to go wherever he wants? And it might only kind of The only thing that I've said that exonerates me from future crimes trials is that I think he does drive more like a Simracer than any driver in F1 history and I think you just keep going and you keep pushing limits and if no one is picking you up and no one's giving you penalties why on earth would you ever think you have an issue right if you've got a kid who choose with their mouth open son and you don't tell him you know that then he doesn't know he doesn't know he's doing something bad or he or you're not telling him in the right way at this stage I think Mercedes has been telling him but you're right and in that the FIA has not been reprimanding him over this so the fact that he's been broadly getting away with it from the governing body but his own management team has gone into full dad of teenager mode and it's like I know what you're saying but I'm now going to publicly berate you that it shows how far the issue has got and I've never seen Peter Bonnington or never heard sorry on the radio do anything as frustratingly aggressive as when he said track limits 18 times in a row didn't wait for a response do I just want to tell you something to me try limits try limits track limits track limits track limits track limits and they're like I've never heard him do anything close to that should we make a song for Peter Bonnington about track limits that he can sing to Kimi and Tnelli over the radio like a like maybe like a catchy what language would you like that to be in both English and Italian maybe to really kind of like get the point get the point home you know maybe one verse in English one verse in Italian we might need a little help with some translations but I think that might maybe that's all all that needs to happen I think that'd be pretty good oh no we need a Gen Z meme phrase like give it any toilet or wherever the Gen Z people were doing we need something that cuts through to his Gen Z brains and then yes that's it that's what we've done oh I was supposed to stay on track I didn't know oh oh the track did he know it's the white lines does he know it's the white lines that's does he know it's the white lines at all there you go there's your song love it perfect um last thing on my list uh we still have some questions about when exactly the F1 season is going to end and how it's going to end um as of this recording on Wednesday October 14th we still have no news about the end of season schedule made October quote unquote has been the running catch phrase for a few weeks now about when we will get official confirmation about whether F1 will finish the calendar as scheduled in Qatar and Abu Dhabi or whether those races will be cancelled and we would instead finish potentially in Emola um despite Stefano de Minicale's comments in recent weeks about Qatar and Abu Dhabi being confirmed oh we said this at the time and it's worth reiterating that that's just kind of the language F1 has been using around those grants pre-all season and it doesn't actually mean that that's an update on where they stand today um my two biggest things here um aside from you know ongoing global conflicts in that region which we have no opinions which we will not we will not be discussing on this podcast um my two what my two biggest things here one is that we're already in mid-October today is October 14th which means we are less than two months away from when these races are supposed to be run and i think this timeline is just like crazy short to expect um to know anything more and also like to have a race go off well with all of this level of uncertainty i guess Luke Smith has reported in the athletics that they have given the green light to Emola to begin preparations in case they are needed so that's happening but like we're less than two months out that's not a long window to throw an event like this and like we should probably know by now and second um we i think know how this driver's championship is ultimately going to end but the math changes a lot if we have one race at the end of this season or two um so we like have to have an announcement before Austin otherwise there's a world in which kimi and tenelie could win his first world drivers championship and not know it and then we would have you know one race canceled in all of us and be like oh you actually already won and didn't get a chance to celebrate on track which would be heartbreaking and then George Russell and Hamilton would say well technically there was a chance i could have caught up and um i can i can imagine it now like possible if he's sitting at home and uh really he's ring doorbell he could go soft and he hears the letterbox and letter goes to the floor and he opens it up and he says oh Susie oh i have a letter it says as proof that i was uh fast as an Alexander Verdes in uh in the junior series all i have to do is attend with a Stefano Dominic Carly oh god excuse me i have to go and then like Fred Vassore gets like a similar thing and then this woman it's a trap and and then Dominic Carly is explaining like if we cancel the championships these these last two races not only do we have to pay because we're the ones that cancel but we have this controversy and Antonelli won't be crowned you know you won't be crowned champion but he'll win it kind of a default because no one can catch up what i need you to do what i need you to do toto is i need you to pay you need to have a big red button that can explode George Russell's injury and you do it you do it and then he gets two penalties and then you go to the media and you say there's no way i would have a big red button i know you've said there's no button but i need you to have a button by the time before it was before that he was like there is a big red button and then you go out there and you tell everyone that it's crazy that you would have a big red button yeah no one will then respect it expect that you do have a big red button and you say to Vassore we need this with Hamilton like any chance that you get to pit him into a like a good position or or like get his team out of the way don't do it just don't do it and we we will convince John Elkin to let you keep your job until the end of the season and pretend to retire on your own terms and they're like your terms are acceptable because now now they've made a big deal out of it obviously of it that he could technically win in Cota yes he's most likely to win in Mexico which is a very common place for for people to pick up championships in recent history and do it and it can be imagined so convenient it's all wrapped up now imagine having your I won the world driver's championship party in Mexico City like yes yeah say less I would I mean not that often wouldn't also be great but Mexico City would be just incredible but go and win it in Mexico do they still have the thing where the car of the winner goes up I don't know and then you have the EJ at the top like given it all that and then you celebrate your championship at the top of the Mexican Grand Prix podium with your car and all the stuff and all the stadium and all the music that's a great place to win it and no one's going to remember that you just went oh yeah I know we said for a hundred percent we're having Qatar and Abu Dhabi it didn't happen but but look at the championship it was a great championship also if Kimmy waits to win in Mexico the legal drinking age in Mexico is 18 whereas the legal drinking age in the US is 21 so he couldn't legally drink if he won in Koda whereas and I don't know if he does drink but if he does wait till Mexico Kimmy that would be my advice to you yeah we're out we're all sinking I was trying to have a good time I like your I think borderline conspiracy theory that the Antonelli championship is actually a a focus in the economics of f1 and the geopolitical tensions in the Middle East is it all around like the championship points I don't I don't think that should actually necessarily be the concern but I would feel horrible if he won his first championship and like basically as you said like found out about it after the fact that that would that would really stink yeah he's got to have he's got to have the moment I think in sport that is yeah it's always a little bit muted when they go oh you know there was um interlagos where Kimmy Rykin and one but it should have been Fissikella but there was this big crash that did a countback and they have a thing where Fissike uh Rykin and Hans Fissikella the winners trophy and it's like hmm there was a photo but there was no crowd there was no moment you didn't have you know that that thing in interlagos where you you have a night out in constant risk of your personal safety yeah so yeah so that moment is kind of important and I think Antonelli will have it and is isn't it though like too much of a coincidence like we're not crazy just to point out the coincidence the the Antonelli championship conclusion has been hastened whereas you go what but what if what if those races were definitely happening you know maybe Toto doesn't press the button so it worked out that if you wanted to have a crazy conspiracy theory open goal like we could go down that route I love it you know I love a crazy conspiracy theory I know podcast though would go on and they're gonna hear this and go we'll own that let's investigate um but I I personally I I'm so doubtful those final two races will happen I think it's a intractual thing where you have to say they will it is our intention that these will definitely happen um but this every news thing I hear makes me go I don't think so doesn't seem likely as far as I understand so I feel like the most likely scenario is Qatar will be cancelled and um Abu Dhabi or Abu Dhabi Grand Prix in like yeah emola yeah emola presents the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix yeah it's fine it's not the most elegant solution but it works and uh we would get one last race um spanner's one week until we get to talk about kota I'm so excited so - What, why aren't we there? - Um, I don't know, you tell me. - I've got a passport. You're the manager, you're like the boss, you're the big boss, you're the big boss lady. Come on, have a word, get us in. - That is in no way true. (laughs) - But we've been so nice about Austin Martin and Cadillac and Alpin, surely one of them is going to invite us to hospitality. - Surely. - Oh my gosh, I can't wait to talk about Circle of the Americans though. It is one of, it is one of the best tracks out there. - I'm sort of told of the big facility on turn one. And that has been long overdue for something to happen to turn one. - Yes, yes. - Is that where they're installing the biggest cowboy hat in the world or is that somewhere else? - 'Cause they. - They need something because I would say that the stand at turn one at circuit of the Americas is one of the best views you could possibly have in motorsport. - No shelter. - Boiling hot. - Boiling hot. - And a huge fan at the bottom. So at the bottom, you go, okay, please take this heat away from my skin and then you go into the stand and you just boil. And I've never expected. I'm from Essex, England. I'm on the same, I'm as North as Canada. And that's where I've grown up. And I'm sat there in the Texas sun going, this is ruining my day. - I'm not built for this. Can't do this. I'm not either. - It's making better. - There's a giant flag that should be wafting. - Hell yeah, brother. - Some air, but doesn't. So yeah. - Be great. I can't wait. Thank you Spanners for joining. Thanks to Steve Almond for the production help. And thanks everyone for listening. This has been The Ringer F1 Show. We will be back soon. (upbeat music) - This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Follow us here in Whole Foods Market as everything you need for cozy meals, seasonal treats and easy entertaining. 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