F*ck Being Humble: Why Self-Promotion isn't a Dirty Word with Stefanie Sword-Williams

Hello and welcome to the Health Home Hustle podcast. I'm Monica Welburn-Leggett, your host. Health Home Hustle is a well-being-focused lifestyle podcast designed to consider what life looks like when we approach it from a place of abundance, not burnout. The issue, so often, Hustle is prioritised at the expense of our health and home lives. When the simple truth is, no matter how successful you are, if your own cup is empty, you're not living life to its fullest. There is a lot of information out there when it comes to becoming your best you, so I'm interviewing experts, thought leaders and inspiring individuals to distill their most transformative advice for you. I'll also be adding my own experience and lessons learned into the mix to help you to get your glow on, fill your cup, and live life on your terms. Thanks for tuning in. Let's get into it. Hello, hello friends! It is so wonderful to welcome you here to the Health Home Hustle podcast this week. I know I say that every week, it truly is such a joy for me to be able to welcome you. I love the thought of you enjoying the show, listening to the show on your commute or when you're doing your cleaning, cooking, whatever it may be. I know as a podcast listener myself that I feel like I'm hanging out with hosts when I'm listening to podcasts, and that's something which brings me so much joy, it's light relief, and yeah, just makes my heart happy thinking that this show may be doing the same for you. So this week we're focusing on a topic which I have not covered on the podcast before, so that is very exciting for me, and that is self-promotion. So we're leaning into that hustle bit of the Health Home Hustle podcast. Stephanie sort Williams, affectionately known as Steph, is the founder of fuck being humble, a disruptive business which helps people to reframe the way that they think about self-promotion. You may have seen Steph on social media, you might have seen the cover of her book, Steph has had a huge amount of press over the past few years, thanks to her brilliant business. Steph has worked in advertising for seven years prior to launching fuck being humble in 2018. Since then, Steph's written a book, fuck being humble, why self-promotion isn't a dirty word, delivered a type X talk made the Forbes 30 and 30 list Europe secured her own radio show, has been named one of a hundred women changing the creative industry twice, and was recognised by the Royal Society of Arts for making a significant impact towards social change. In this episode, Steph and I dive into the inspiration behind her business, fuck being humble, her subsequent book of the same title, and Steph shares advice on how we can all begin to put some of her self-promotion lessons into play. One of the things which really stood out to me during my conversation with Steph is how contrary to the title of Steph's book, the fuck being humble attitude isn't about eradicating humility. It's about ensuring that you don't miss out on opportunities because you're too scared or shy or yes of course being humble to champion your own skills, achievements and ambitions, and I think that really comes across during our conversation. I found Steph to be a very real, inspiring and down-to-earth guest I think you're going to love getting to know her. This is one of those episodes I just know it that you're going to want to write notes on. So this is your heads up, heads up everyone to open your notes at timestamp the episode and grab your pen and paper. Before we dive into my conversation with Steph, it's time for this week's Glow Getting Tip. This segment allows me to share micro habits which can help you to lead your life from a more health-focused place which you know is my jam. This week's Glow Getting Tip is to have a spring clean. Yes is that time of year. Don't roll your eyes. I think people like sit firmly in one of two camps that either love a spring clean and like when they put that into their diary they're like yes I cannot wait or if you're like my husband Ollie, it is your worst nightmare. Although I would have to say that even if you sit in that second camp it may be your worst nightmare but I would argue that everybody loves the result of a spring clean. So here's just a little bit of background as to why I feel that this is so beneficial for your health. Clutter has been linked to heightened levels of stress. It's like a micro stress. You know when you wake up I mean this is my reality right now because we're still in that like funny just having moved house time. You wake up you see Clutter you're like I need to do something about that. Weeks pass nothing's been done. It's a microstresser has actually been shown to raise your cortisol levels. Clutter can make it difficult to find the things you're looking for again super annoying and stressful. It can be a breeding ground for dust and bacteria which isn't great for your living environment and it can make the space that you spend time in visually and therefore emotionally stressful. That's not to say that you need to live in like a museum level minimalist space to feel relaxed. Not at all. More than your space just needs to feel like a peaceful environment for you. Whatever that may look like. If you follow me on Instagram you've praised my Pinterest or you've checked out my blog. You know I'm not a minimalist. I love things. I love color. I love texture. I you know always buy something when I go travelling. I love a trinket. That being said I love styling things and having things placed in a really intentional way keeping things clean. I rotate things so I don't have all of my items out at the same time and a spring clean really gives me that opportunity to freshen things up. Every now and then I like to have a big spring clean reset and this is the season. It really helps to reset my vibe at home and also just like reset me a little bit internally too. Not only is the cleaning process itself meditative. I promise you it is. Focus physical activity has actually been shown to reduce cortisol levels and send to the mind. The results of a spring clean make me so happy and like I said whether you sit in the camp of like a big spring clean nerd like me or you absolutely detest the thought of getting into a spring clean like Ollie. Everybody feels the benefits of a spring clean afterwards. So put a date in your diary. This is really important. Keep yourself accountable. Prepare your necessary tools ahead of time. I'm talking bin bags, dusters, get everything lined up so that's not a hurdle when you actually get to it. Line up a podcast. It can be the health home hassle podcast. It doesn't have to be. Obviously I would be honored if it is and give yourself the gift of a spring clean. I truly feel that future you will be so so happy you did and if you do it while you shouldn't really need to do like a big spring clean regularly. I like to do like a you know a deep dive, get everything out, dust everything down like clean maybe once a quarter something like that and then you can just like keep it topped up with regular like weekly cleans or whatever. So let me know if you give this glow getting tip a go and let me know if it helps and bonus points. If you spring clean tag me on Instagram. I would love to geek out with you over your spruest up space. Okay without further ado, I cannot wait to welcome Stephanie sword Williams to the show. This week's guest I know you're going to love her so please join me in welcoming staff. Hi Steph welcome to the show. I am so happy to have you here. Hi thank you so much for having me. Yeah it's such a pleasure. So just before we started recording I did hold up your book to camera to show you that I've been very very much enjoying your book and you asked me how I came across you and your work originally and there's a funny story. So I attended the best pod women in finance festival at the end of last year I think and as I was in the audience a lady nudged me and she was like that's different from being humble. She was like have you heard before and prior to that I hadn't come across your work but I had already clocked you on the day because you were wearing this like amazing dark green leather blazer. It was really nice and she was like that's different from being humble and I was like okay like I need to know who the scarlers. So I checked you out and immediately started following your work really enjoyed your profiles and that is how I came across you. So it was like a little ban girl moment from the person that was sat next to me that introduced me to your work. Great I mean I love that I'm always like it's always so nice when you go to events and in those sorts of environments and people recognising some of the work you're doing. doing. But absolutely not a big deal at all. I'm going all shy because I'm like this is not that's not not how I've seen myself, but so nicely your friend recommended me to you and I'm so glad that you've been enjoying but yeah, definitely and subsequently I was chatting to some friends over the weekend telling them that you were coming on the show and you've actually delivered talks at some of their workplaces. Oh, no way. I love that. Yeah, I mean, that was really cool too. That's commonly how people know me for giving talks at their company than that kind of spreads, which is always really positive. So yeah, I love to hear it. Yeah, amazing. Okay, so let's begin with your background and how you got into the work that you're doing today. Can you share your story and what led you to start but being humble. So I worked in advertising for seven years and I absolutely loved it. I always had this clear goal that I wanted to do purpose-led work. I had that goal right from the outset when I was at university, not actually studying an advertising degree, but I very quickly realised that I wanted to do good with the work that I was doing and that was kind of like a good 10 years ago before like purpose was as big a buzzword as it is now. And for me, I just kept working at advertising agencies had some great experiences, you know, worked on TV adverts in LA, like shot amazing films and content and great work and great project. But I just always felt like I was either selling people things they didn't really need or not necessarily getting to work on those, yeah, purpose-led things that we're going to have a meaningful impact on the world. So I decided that I wanted to create something of my own where I had full creative autonomy over it. And that was another thing that whenever you're working in teams, you often have to work within the structures of a company and I kind of wanted my own baby to nurture and have some freedom with. And one of the things that I found, if you can't already spot those who are listening, I'm from the North of England, from Leeds. And when I moved to London, I was just so inspired by all the amazing creators and entrepreneurs and side hustlers. Seeing all these people, I was like, oh, I just want to connect with them more. I want to meet more people like that. But I also want to be able to spotlight them and see them celebrated because so often when I was going to events, it was very often the same people that you saw. I often joke that it was male, pale and stale, which is a common phrase in the creative industry and brilliant. I just felt like, you know, I was this young creative person from the North and I wanted to sit and speak and celebrate people that looked and sounded like me or, you know, that we're doing really inspiring things and so often for us to believe in ourselves and to have strong self worth and self belief. So we've got to have done something for 10 years, 20 years to be an expert in it when actually I was meeting people that were extremely talented and they absolutely deserved the spotlight on them, but they weren't getting that. So I wanted to create these kind of networking events in in East London, whereas base, just that kind of changed the way that we look at professional development and those types of events, particularly because I had a lot of friends that would go, oh, I just don't do networking. I do professional development and I always thought like that's such a shame because there's so much value that you can gain by investing in those spaces and resources, but so many people have a preconception of what it is to embrace professionals about them. So I really wanted to create something that was just went against the grain, it wasn't what you expected. So my first event, you know, they had like DJs playing R&B and hip hop, my name's my events after my favorite R&B lyrics, they were called let me blow your mind and bitch better have my money. And my presentations as they are to this day were just completely different to what people had experienced, they were interactive workshops where I solely focus on helping the individuals in the room get to where they wanted to get to as opposed to standing there and talking about myself for an hour. So that was something that just started really naturally and organically and like, yeah, 30 people came to the first event, then like 40 people, 50 people came to the next event and then the third event, which was within the first five months, 180 people came and that was kind of when I knew I was onto something because the appetite was there and then everything started to snowball and grow a lot quicker. But yeah, it was a really enjoyable start to growing what is now my amazing business time, super proud of. Yeah, fantastic. I'm sure you do get asked about this, can we just touch on the fuck that book. You know, I feel like I heard you on another podcast, say that some clients perspective clients, I don't know if they end up being clients like have previously asked you to take out that word and don't want you to use that branding as such. I love it. I think they cut through the crowd and it really. Thumbs up what what I believe you must have to be wish. Yeah, but being humble. How did you come to that title and did you find immediate comfort with that title, where you like, yeah, this is it like from the get go. So I'm a very emotive person and I've always connected and resonated with brands and marketing that used messaging to emotionally connected people and create some sort of action off the back of it. So I wanted to create something that was unique that was disrupted the careers industry has not been shaken up in years, which is why I think the business has taken such great steps so quickly. And again, like I remember a bit this gives writing and proposal I was sat at the hoxton in London, a hoxton hotel and I was listening to my R&B playlist and I was listening to like even Gwen Stefani and Rihanna and all of my favorite like artists that I grew up listening to. And there's a lot of like motivation or language, but it's like, you know, eight no shame, baby, do you do your game like all those sorts of things. And I was like, yes, wouldn't it be great if there was a brand that actually just had a bit more attitude to it and it like actually resonated with people and people wanted to to say the thing or embrace it. So I came up with two names, so that won't say your name, which is based on destiny's child lyric, because I like the idea of people saying your name in a crowd. And I came up with with fuck being humble and I remember messaging my friends and they were like, I think fuck is going to alienate people, I think it's going to scare people, it's going to intimidate them. And I very kind of like confidently said at the time, well, then maybe they're not the people I need to help. And I think I was right in that respect that actually my main goal when I started was only ever to support community and it was to support individuals, my friends, people around me, I never had the ambition of going into businesses and speaking, you know, and delivering corporate talks. So the fact that that has come as a result of the strength of the community events and the fact that people have attended one event and then said, you have to come speak at my global corporate business without me even having a cred step and all those things. That was kind of proof in the content for me, but I really do and I say this on almost every podcast I go and I would not be here with the success I've had so far without the name absolutely no way. Medical my business shoot for the stars, nobody would have been bothered about it and it's the power of brand right and I think we're seeing it a lot and really interestingly, especially with the Gen Z community who are now looking for like we just don't want, you know, the bullshit that's being fed the corporate language, we don't want to be like trapped into unhealthy working conditions and all these things. So I actually think the millennial audience really resonate with it, but probably I have been more scared to embrace it because millennials are just we always going through a crisis of not knowing what we shouldn't do, whereas I think the Gen Z community and that audience have a much clearer idea of what they do and don't want and actually for being humble sits very much in the positive camp of what they want. Yeah, I have zero regrets in the choice and and I'm extremely happy that I took the risk to do it and yeah, you know, some businesses do I literally had a call with a really amazing business the other day that I really would love to work with and they're doing credible things and they were like look I'm going to be honest, we're worried about. The swear word are you okay if we don't use it and few years ago I would have said absolutely not I have to do this but I think maybe that is an ego thing and you know this is not like Nike being told to remove their Nike tick like this is a statement that I and a mission that I can still communicate with ill without saying my name every second and I also think it's important say I don't swear any other time. So it really is only when I open the speech by saying the name of my business you'll have read it in my book it's not like every other word is inappropriate. It needed that with the title to grab people's attention and ultimately for me it's free advertising I've never put any paid advertising behind my business and again extremely proud of that because we've got a community of 150k followers across our online channels and. That don't think would have been achieved without having such productive title so yeah don't get me wrong there's there's things that it's not always been the easiest and particularly the start of the journey I found myself. Saying my name quietly or being a bit embarrassed if people didn't respond well I remember a time when someone immediately shut me down in 30 seconds. because they said I just don't agree with that at all because I believe you should be humble and that was a bit of a hard pill to swallow as such because I was like oh right okay you're literally dismissing me in the first 10 seconds or 30 seconds immediately purely on the name so it's not come without the obstacles of having to you know really build up the reputation but pre-pandemic I would say I was still convincing people post-pandemic people are knocking on my door which is a really good place to be. I think what's really interesting what is that about that interaction is anyone that reads your book knows that actually you mentioned many times how humility is a wonderful quality and such an important quality so though the title is fuck being humble it's not to negate the value of humility at all not all and I almost have to I open all my presentations by saying please let me explain the name of my business and my book before we go any further which is I absolutely believe in being humble if someone comes up to me after an event and says that was amazing I don't turn around and go I know wasn't I but was an I bloody brilliant like of course I don't respond like that there is a time and a place where you should be humble my concern and my fear is that we've been so kind of drilled into a trained or led to believe that the only way to be successful is to be humble and to celebrate ourselves is a crime of sorts and I just really want to challenge that and you know I always say fuck being humble is a mindset to adopt to make sure you don't ever miss out on opportunities because you are being too modest it's not to say that you can't be modest and it's not say you can't be humble but it's that too modest that I think is the important bit is a when do you catch yourself you know holding yourself back in situations where really you should speak up and that's where I want you to say to yourself fuck being humble I deserve this absolutely okay so yeah let's let's talk about that discomfort that so many people have around sharing their work and successes why do you think we are so challenged by that or why do you think we struggle so much for self-promotion there's so many reasons and I talk about in the the start of my book and and the different experiences and nuances that have led us to this point I think the very phrase self-promotion has a bad rep and just immediately if you mention it there are more negative connotations that spring to people's mind than positive I think we've not been taught how to do it so we avoid the things we don't know how to do well I think the people that do do it don't do it incredibly well or haven't done in the past especially public people if we think of some of the most arrogant particularly political figures that have done it in a negative way then we immediately associate it like that so there's a lack of education there's a lack of positive role models there's a lack of understanding of what it actually means and what it looks like and how it can look different for everyone and there's also a lack of encouragement right so this is something I go in and speak to businesses about all the time is when we're if you want people to be more confident at work then we need to create opportunities for them to talk about their successes and celebrate themselves and feel confident at work if they never feel welcome to advocate for themselves or shout about something that's gone really well then yes they're probably not going to become across the most confident in the times when you want them to so that's also something I work a lot with businesses about is how can we try and foster a culture in an environment where we can make people feel more comfortable and then there's obviously additional layers so there's things like gender that comes into play there's race and ethnicity that comes into play there's religion and some face you know it's frowned upon to be to not be humble so there's so many different elements to it access to learning also know you know that certain parts of the world in Asian cultures for example it's very much considered you know that you should not be humble you shouldn't talk about yourself and you shouldn't be the loudest person in the room so again there's so many different parts to it and I'm actually really fascinated by that side of it because I think it tells us more about how we've got to this point but ultimately it is I believe it's lack of understanding lack of role models and lack of spaces to do it in an environment where you're not going to be mocked you know that's something that I think is really important you know even a friend was like oh gosh have you seen that person's LinkedIn posting did it and I literally had to say to them do you post on LinkedIn every day do you have the confidence to do that when was the last time that you shared something because it actually takes a lot so you might find it a bit cringe but it takes a lot of courage to do that so it might not align with how you would do that but it's not about mocking other people because they've they've had the courage and confidence to do it so yeah I think we've definitely built up a coach particularly in the UK where it is cooler to be more self-deprecating than it is to celebrate ourselves and advocate for ourselves and that is absolutely something I want a mission to change yeah you saying that about your friend reminds me of something that someone else said to me which is that it's so much easier to criticise than to create you know we all sit there at the end of the movie or I mean even I'm part of a book club and the amount of times the conversation begins the people just like ripping a book to shreds or reading and I just think my god that author has sat there and like has created this whole story that we are now discussing at length and you might not have liked this twist or turn or whatever but it's much easier for us to be sat here for half an hour dissecting it and it is for someone to have spent years or whatever of their lives writing it um absolutely and I think you know we have to be kind to people and it's always that thing is like if you've got nothing to say then do you need to say it and I definitely think people's perspectives change around self-promotion at different points in their life so I've noticed people who have been made redundant recently who have reached out to me and asked for support who would never have done it before I've noticed people that are starting their own businesses or who are wanting to get a promotion or are struggling with a difficult boss and I think there are people that in the past would have said no I wouldn't dare self-promote but actually I do I am seeing a wave of acceptance and encouragement particularly online on channels like LinkedIn the dots there's places like Instagram and TikTok which sometimes it can feel a little more hostile because they're more lifestyle spaces but definitely in the more professional online spaces it's almost like I'm seeing a sea of self-promotion I'm like it's great to see it sort of thing so I think we are changing just think we have to be mindful of like criticizing other people because they have the courage to often do the things those people don't want to do you know 100% and I think that when you do find yourself in those conversations it often says a lot about how you're feeling your own insecurity is rather than what you're commenting commenting on um can we touch on fast because that really ranks so truthfully in your book can you explain what fuss is and and sort of why that is such a stumbling block for us? So fuss is a phrase that I coined whilst I was building the business and I'm writing the book and thinking about some of the obstacles to stop us so in case anyone who's listening hasn't heard of fuss and what I mean by it it's the fear of sounding stupid so when we think when we talk a lot about imposter syndrome which is feeling like an imposter or feeling like a fraud that is very relevant it's very true it's very common but I think for almost everyone so some people are not even familiar with imposter syndrome I know a lot of men don't even know what it is or they they have had only just research it this year sort of thing but what I think we can all agree with and what I think we've all experienced at different points of our lives is the fear of sounding stupid so you know imposter syndrome is not feeling like you're in the place or whether you've earned it enough or whether people believe you earned it but fuss is just that thing that happens to us almost every day in any situation where we have the chance to speak up but we are just worried about what other people are going to think about us and the thing that I like to highlight to my audiences and attendants attendees when they come to my events is the problem with fuss is we are so consumed by what other people think of us that we minimise ourselves or we water ourselves down or we undersell ourselves and then what ends up happening is something that doesn't sound anywhere near as good but I couldn't think of a better way to wrap it up as fobbage which is the fear of being generic which is something that I want people to be more worried about because every time you minimise yourself and undersell yourself you become generic and you blend in like everyone else and then you know five, ten years later you question why have I not got that permission or why did I not land that client and the reason being is because we're so worried about sounding stupid we don't put ourselves out there in the way that we want to and and back to the name of being humble if you think about it like that that was a big risk for me if I'd have let the fuss in my head stop me from naming that I would have gone down the generic route and picked something that didn't stand out so yeah of course there's going to be there has been times and there will be times where I have that fear of sounding stupid but I also know the power that can come and the benefits that can come I think that's the other thing around self-primation that we don't talk enough about is the benefits of self-primation and that's where when we talk about this very of sounding stupid. If we can reframe the sounding stupid, if we can not just make a long list of all the negatives that will happen, but also make a list of all the positives that can happen, then we can actually start to look at the appeal of self-merition. And yeah, fossa and fogger are a really good way to clearly land what stops us, but also what the negative impact will be if you don't invest in your own narrative and storytelling. Where can people get started, especially people who are reframing their mindset around this, and they're like, you know, what off of the back of this podcast, I'm going to get into self-promotion, and I want to get going. Where do people begin, whether or not they're in a work environment, where they, you know, they're employed or a freelancer, how do they get going with developing their own narrative and becoming comfortable with self-promotion? So some really good questions to start with is like, what do you want to be known for? What are your ambitions? And an activity that I do in my workshop is like, what headlines would you like to be featured in? You know, if a news article was going to write a headline about you, although it's going to be an internal newsletter about you, what would you love for that to say? Because then you start to think about the positioning, you know, so what I'm doing is what I did in advertising. It's storytelling, it's brand positioning, it's understanding how on where you show up and what you say in order to get to certain results. And a good example of this was, so I always knew I wanted to be a TED speaker. I have been obsessed with TED Talks since I saw the platform when I was like 15 and just loved everything about it. I was just so in awe of everyone that was, you know, made it to that point because they originated a thought or an idea that had either cut through or, you know, just, it was just really inspiring for me and it was always something that I was like, love public speaking. But when I was working full-time, I knew that my job as an account director in advertising, there are about four of the people that were going to public speak ahead of me. The stuff I was speaking about wasn't necessarily TED worthy, you know, it was brand work or it was things that I didn't necessarily have my own control over. And I just realized that there were these skills that I really wanted to utilize and use more of that if I didn't explore, then I would never really get to that point. And so that was a big motivator for me starting fuck being humble because I booked myself as the lead act and I spoke at every event and it was only me and, you know, and people were coming and literally after three events, I was a public speaker and that was about, again, having the courage to go for it, but also having a clear idea of what do I want the next five to 10 years to look like and like many people, I'd have this idea that I wanted to be a public speaker since I would people said to me, you could so do this, but also people said you couldn't do it because where are you going to make the money in it? You know, there were a lot of like limiting beliefs around whether it was actually possible. So I think yeah, it's important to think about like, where would you like to be? And it's not like, what's your five year in 10 year plans? I hate those questions. It's more like, what would you love to be doing in your every day? Or what would you want your grandkids to say, you know, my grandma or granddad did that? Or you know, what would you want people to say about you when you're not in the room? And also, what opportunities do you want people to recommend you for? Because that's also a good thing to be thinking about. And starting off with a bit of a, yeah, my map and the next creation of what those kind of questions mean to you. And then mapping out a plan for yourself because I'm not going to tell you to just start jumping on TikTok and start posting videos every day. Especially if you filming yourself is not a good version of you. So I always say to people like, you know, if you're terrible at speaking on video, but you're an incredible writer, then write articles. Don't go on a video because everybody is on TikTok. So I think it's also really important to pick the channels that demonstrate your self-promotion skills or your just general skills in the best possible way. Because ultimately, there is no point in self-promoting if it's not going to show you in the best light. And thinking about the moments where you can be more intentional. It's people often say to me, like, when can I self-promote them? Like, when can I do it that feels like natural and normal? And I often remind people there are so many opportunities in your day, but you don't, you've almost got into a habit of not utilizing them. So say you're a work at a company and you're about to jump on a meeting with a client and you're waiting for them to join and other colleagues that you've not seen in a while, join the call and they say, how's your week going? Within 10 seconds, you go, really good. Actually, we just got great client feedback from someone we've been working with and we're just landing a new project with them. So I'm super happy about that. Or you could sit and talk about the past that you made last night for dinner, right? So there's like little moments throughout your day that if you actually were to really think about it, you could start to be more intentional. And the same goes for, like, I often talk about, like, when I work full-time, I used to send my boss around on Pima on a Friday. Here's three things I've done this week that I'm really happy with. Here's everything I'm going to focus on next week. Done. It's not that big a deal. It doesn't need to be something that is like so long-winded and this like, you know, weekly essay or, you know, this book that you're writing. It doesn't need to be that. And often we complicate it in our heads because we're trying to find obstacles to stop us from doing it, but there are really simple ways that you can move forward with it. So that's my sort of advice that people are working businesses and then people are running their own company. I mean, honestly and truly, anybody who's a creator, side hustler, running a passion project, nobody's going to advocate better than you because it's your baby and it's your idea. So always think about, you know, digital online channels that you can be promoting on, but I'm also a big advocate for promoting offline as well. And really important to go to networking events, to speak on podcasts like this, to find ways to engage with people and support people to demonstrate why you're good at what you do. So I as a founder, I ran female founder round tables last year where I'd invite 20 women, we'd share things we were struggling with and 20 women in the room would come together and help you. And it was an amazing, amazing success, monthly doing it with lots of great women. And I wasn't selling, I honestly wasn't selling, I was doing that to support people because I've been on that journey and I know what it feels like, but the women in that room were asking me every week, have you got a course I can buy? Have you got this? Have you got that? So I think there's also something around like, when you build a personal, I avoid saying personal brand because I think that also has negative connotations, but when you build a self-management strategy that is about adding value to others, they ask you for things. You're not hard, you're not cold emailing, you're not hard selling, you're not having to pick up the phone every day and pick yourself when you create a brand or a presence that supports other people, they actually want to pay for you, they want to buy you and they want your product. So it's also just about how you want to generate new business and opportunities. And I think again for years we've been told there's only one way when actually building a public profile or a presence online or in person can have a huge impact on what opportunities come your way. You're so good at sharing your roundups, I mean obviously this is your specialty, your genius though, I love how you do it, it lands so softly, that's my interpretation of it, you know you always shout from the rooftops about your successes, but I love the way that you've just summarise some of it here because it doesn't sound scary to do, sending your boss like three lines at the end of a week or I encourage everyone to follow staff on social media of course, you know just look at some of the stress carousels of just hey this is what I did over the last month or the last week, it's so gentle and if I can use the word humble in a way you don't shout, it doesn't come across with any kind of hint of arrogance, it's just highlighting what you've done your successes and I think it does really bring people along for your journey and bring them along to champion you and also see where you could fit into their future as well. Totally and I'm very humbled that that's how you you know see it because that is absolutely again the name is probably the most provocative thing about my business and brand, everything else that I do is accessible and relatable and when people ask me like how I would describe myself and what I'm so proud of is that people would say I'm relatable and I think relatability is one of the most important things to have because when you don't have that how are you building connection with people right and I try and show people the range of how we can self promote so absolutely you can go out there and be like so proud of myself I've just smashed this just fun this big deal you could also say for anyone who's struggling right now here's my three top tips on how I just landed a recent pitch completely different tone you could say I'm not going to tell you about my own success I'm going to tell you about how I'm helping my clients and the reaching their goals and all of a sudden you know there's lots of ways that you can position your self-promotion that is not about you it's not about on eye so I listen something the other day which is really stuck through stood out to me is you're not the hero they are and that's really powerful for me because I think so many people were have this hero complex or were it say well whatever and it's like at the end of the day people are more concerned about themselves so yeah sending your so somebody said to me recently I did that email thing that you said about emailing my boss three lines I said all right and what was the response he was like yeah they were really happy and they just said well done I was like and you didn't get anything negative and they were like no I was like great so it's not that big a deal there But they were almost shocked themselves that they'd had such a positive response and it was it was great seeing and I am too sometimes you know sometimes I sent out a newsletter saying you know I'm available book me for talks and I get loads of messages back And I'm like oh yeah, it does work of course it works. This is what I'm telling people but I think the important thing to remember self motion is its updates is I think you just said that really nicely it is updates and the biggest mistake we can make is assuming that everybody's watching your move every move. Assuming that everyone's getting served every single post that you share on the algorithm because they're not assuming that you know the news letter that I send out that all of my clients are reading it probably not know so you know thinking about say for example every month I do news letter updating people on the things that I've been doing but also anything that might support them. And then I sent a follow-up email separately to my clients that I've worked with in the last year just to say just to highlight to you here's everything we've done in the first quarter and it was you know giving a talk for Apple working with square space working with Warner Brothers and listening out of this and loads of people came back and I'm like oh this is great I've not seen this. So you know it's really interesting that like don't assume that the one time that you've promoted that one thing you're doing that everybody saw it or everybody took notice of it. And another example that I did recently was I made the full blend of 30 list three years ago now. And I did a post on LinkedIn just reminding people that the way that I achieved that was nominating myself and I'm always very confident and not confident it's not the right word but I'm always very open about that because I think it's important to be honest about how we get to certain things. So I just did a post saying you know I nominated myself Forbes under 30 and made the list for Europe I did that because it's nobody else's job to get me to this point it's my own and so I think I got like 500 likes loads loads of comments people were congratulating me and I think they thought it just happened and this is something that happened three years ago and obviously I'm not going to correct them because I'm like fine but like even people that I've been following me for years and it's like did you miss that three years ago. And I've just retold that and you think that's just happened and I was like wow that is so important because all of a sudden they're liking that person I'm now on their feeds or that has just that has only just connected with them that I made the Forbes under 30 list so. However it is presented I don't I don't mind at what stage it connects with them but the important messages don't assume that that one time you talked about yourself it was recognized by everyone and make sure it's a habit I often compare it's going to the gym at the start of a new year. You're not going to get the bikini board by July if you try it once in January going to the gym and don't go again like science proves that right so it's the same as self motion don't self wrote once and expect the world to stop because it's not going to. Let's talk about that for a second we all know that social media can be completely overwhelming and it is a constant constant world that's going how do you organize your time to ensure that you are. Keeping up with that promotion how I mean do you have any like little handy tips you can share with people do you batch process i'm always vaccinated to hear how people do this because obviously it's been such a big part of my business. However many years and I go through absent flows is it too i'm laughing as you say it because I am probably the worst example of it I go through phases where I batch create a load of content i'm like I am so on a crack the system I know exactly what i'm doing. I feel like this lighter stronger human and then like most weeks it's just me scrambling to get something together within 15 minutes because I know the optimum time to post and there's something I've found so it's interesting because it depends on it depends on your social media strategy and the channels you're using so. LinkedIn for example you can now pre schedule post which is a time saver and a half and I don't have to create any visual assets to support that so I find that I can very quickly write out the next two weeks of post because a generally post Monday to Thursday at certain times and that's essentially like just eight captions. I think where it adds in longer is particularly with platforms like tiktok and in Instagram where you're creating more the visual experience or something that either entertains or needs to look enticing then then that requires another level of design and development and consideration. So it all depends on again skills how you plan on sharing things I would absolutely recommend batch create there's there's no reason why you wouldn't it makes so much more sense and if you ever need to do a reactive post or something topical then you just change whatever you've ordered and you put it in for next week. So yeah batch create is the biggest time saver recently I was getting into a bit of a rut with content which I think again is important say because we all do it i've been running my business for five years now and every week I have turned out content for five years so of course i'm going to get to roots and I was looking at different examples that would help just with creative brainstorming and there was a really nice example that someone shared around. Go through the alphabet and write words that are associated to your business or your topic or your services under every letter so for example for me it might be under a arrogance achievement awards for be it might be belittling yourself boldness so thinking about words and then other sun it was like what would you write a post on in relation so that really helps i've been trying to think about different creative ways to. help get me out of those ruts cycles but yeah whenever you can. Replan content and also think about from from my advice when it comes to a self motion strategies I talk about like the key funnels which again it's nothing hugely original that people other people don't talk about but I know on fuck being humble I like to entertain I like to educate I like to inspire and I like to motivate so if they're my key areas what's a funny mean that I can share. what i don't know a collect from a book that i've been reading that's really educational what's something inspiring that i've seen someone else do what's something that what's a motivating question or action that I could tell people to do and then when you've got those funnels and you go through it then again creating content comes easier it might be completely different if you're. or I don't know a period of care brand where you're trying to change stigmas around period care so it might be that you're changing perceptions it might be that you're creating community and a space to share it might be that you're inviting the audiences so you know so again when you start to get a bit more. tigicom what are those content pillars or those things that you want to be posting for what I would say is always try and make sure at least once a week there's something that is selling you your services or your achievements because I noticed it recently with someone's newsletter. and newsletters is brilliant but i was like at not one place have you self promoted and newsletters take a long time that's generally like a day or two days out of my diary that is purely free content but is long form takes a while in a lot of consideration and they were laughing saying it's almost gone so content heavy with give free content give free content that I feel awkward self promoting i was like in your own newsletter that's like that needs to change immediately. there's nothing else just so that you're constantly reinforcing your offering because a lot of people talk to me about the fact that they they do great social media content but their audience don't know what services they offer and and those sorts of things so particularly when you're doing those free piece of content always make sure you're selling in some way if i'm hosting a free webinar you better believe that i've promoted at least three different products or services throughout because i'm giving my time for free. yeah do make sure that whether you're working full time whether you're working for yourself or you know side of things that you've got at least once a week whether you're sharing a testimonial whether it's a case study whether it's a new service whether it's your favorite podcast episode you've done do one piece of self promotion for yourself because where does that come in otherwise and who else is going to do it without you. could not agree more and I think to highlight a few planning things that people can use i'm a massive fan of planally which is an amazing planning app that you can just plug and play your content and move things around I think there's a free version if you only have one account and it's inexpensive even if you have more and then there's some amazing free visual resources you can use now where the stock imagery. is not appalling it's very elegant there are things like pixels and unsplash which are brilliant resources you can use and can the which people can use to create really high quality. graphics is what I use for my studio clients as well so i don't want people to also think that they necessarily have to invest a huge amount of money in getting expensive photoshoot done or anything like that even though I do think there's great value in that too. there is so much people can do with limited financial investment to create a visual brand that they're going to be really proud of. totally I can agree more I use later dot com which I think is about seven pounds or 10 pounds a month which preschedules and that can do it across linkedin Pinterest Instagram and Twitter which is great but yeah like again a spreadsheet still does the job as well air table is a free platform that I used to plan content and. business planning all these things so there's absolutely free resources but I always say to people as well like what's the bad minimum you can do so. Is it two posts a week or three posts, like you don't have to, I will not say I'm gonna post every day, like I don't care how often the algorithm changed, I don't care if it would turn me into a millionaire if I post every day, I am not chaining myself to social media and these platforms, just because that's what they're deciding because they want to increase the way you're using it. So I always say like how do you make it as easy as possible to get started? Because yes, if you're trying to create five days of content across three different channels, you're just not gonna keep up with that. The other thing I think is really important is repurposing content. So if you've written a newsletter, copy and paste the opening section of that into a LinkedIn post, how could you turn that into a carousel post on Instagram? Like absolutely repurposed content and reposed content. I looked at one of my videos from lockdown that had 600,000 views and like a ridiculous amount of comments that did really well. And I was like, it's still really funny and I'm totally gonna repost it because it had such great like traction. So again, don't feel like you always have to reinvent the wheel. One final thing that I wanted to share is having a personal website, I think is really important whether you work for a company or yourself. I always had a website when I worked full time because even though I was a project manager and I wouldn't necessarily say I had a, you know, it was my output, I was involved in that project. It wouldn't have happened without my involvement. And so I always made sure I had credit everyone that was involved, I always made sure there was a bio there. I would also write a blog on the side that would, you know, I could share with people. But a website is actually one of the best places for you to self-promote because you're fully in control of how you want to appear. You know, you can have different channels, you can have your Instagram loaded or not, you can promote in whatever order you wanted to. It's not about likes, it's not about followers. And I think having a landing page is actually really powerful to drive people towards. So if you are fed up with social media and I know people that have got amazing personal brands and presence with no social media, so also don't feel like you have to go into that trap as well. But having a website where you can sell yourself in the best possible way is a great platform, I believe, to not allow you to feel like you're being controlled by anything. So yeah, definitely think about whether creating a website would also help to demonstrate your skills and your offering if you don't, if you do want to opt out to being a prisoner to some of these apps. Absolutely. And you mentioned that you spoke at Squarespace recently. I think that Squarespace show it. There are so many incredible platforms now that allow you to develop really beautiful professional high quality websites without needing to know coding and not needing to hire a web designer. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. At Squarespace is super user friendly. I use it. I've literally been rebuilding my own personal website. And I was like, just in all, like I picked a template that was already there. I've moved some things around and I've almost cracked it in two days. Like it is like really accessible. One thing I often say as well is like, get your it, we'll do version ready. So what is again, with the bare minimum thing, if you want a website, what do you need? You need an about you, you need a contact page and maybe a project page, that's it. Everything else can be added at a late date. So please don't feel like you need to go out with this all singing or dancing website with motion graphics and video and all these things, it can always be added. But if you delay yourself from pressing live because you want it to be perfect, you'll never press live. And that's also something I talk about in my book is the procrastinating perfectionist where you tell yourself it's not ready and you keep working on it and you're still under development and all those things. But you actually never share anything because you're worried about what people think and you don't think you're perfect enough. So yeah, get your it will do version with a website 'cause that's really good to get going. - Okay, before we round out the show, I want to ask you, well, I want to tell you a quick story and then I want to ask you to kind of expand on this. So I watched one of your Instagram video and it was about negotiating for the value of your work. And in it, you said, forgive me if I get this wording wrong, but I believe it was, that's a great place to start. So when somebody offers you something, and perhaps you're not happy with that fee or that salary, you say that's a great place to start. And one of my really good friends was actually going for a new job negotiating the salary. In fact, I tell you what it was, they had asked her to share her salary expectation. She was like, I have, I have no idea. It was a really big jump up for her. And I said, oh, I've just watched this video from step and she said, if you're not happy with it, you say that's a great place to start. She used it, she got the job and she got an incredible salary that she's really, really happy with. So can you expand a little bit on that and why that's such a powerful way of negotiating for your own value and why that's such good terminology in particular, so I think it's very clever phrasing. - Yeah, so I read a lot around negotiating. A great book actually is by Nick Voss who wrote, never split the difference. He's an FBI hostage handler and he teaches you how to negotiate some amazing tips like when you're asking for a figure, don't go up with your voice, go down. So often when we're asking for permission, we go, I was in thinking around 30K, whereas if you're confident with yourself, you'd say, I'm looking between 30 and 40K, you talk down. So he gives some amazing tips on that. But yeah, I'm constantly reading, learning about negotiating because it's not something I would say I was ever amazing at, but because I moved jobs quite regularly, I got used to doing it. So I don't fear it as much. Don't get me wrong. I've definitely had some hiccups, some learnings, some wish I hadn't said that in negotiations. But that's if I actually heard on a podcast a while ago, so I can't even claim it as my own, but it is brilliant. And I think what's so great about is often when we're in interviews and negotiation chats, we see it as we are asking for permission. We, they are in control. We're lucky to be there, all of those things. But actually, if you treat a negotiation or an interview like a mutually beneficial meeting, a recap or a summary of why you're there and what value you can add and vice versa, what they need to add to you, you kind of change the tone. And the reason that line is so good is because you're allowing yourself space to think. So if they say something that you could be really happy with what they've offered, but just using that line, that's a great place to start. It gives you some thinking time, but it also just shows them that you're not gonna roll over straight away. And I don't think that's a bad thing, right? And so it's not that you have to ask for more money, 'cause that's a really great place to start. But I'd also like to talk to you about holidays or I'd also like to talk to you about flexi time. And so that's a really good way to kind of hold that space. I'm regain the power in a situation when we often feel powerless, right? So I think it's just, it's a great line. And I'm so glad that your friend used it to it, you recommend it. Another one, I've been reading a book by Zoe Chance called The Power of Influence. And she talked about this great phrase, which I'm gonna use everywhere now, is what's it going to take for us to get there? So if you're in a situation where they, you're asking your boss, for example, for a higher salary and they say no can do and you say, okay, what's it gonna take for me to get the highest pay in this salary, in this salary bracket? Or if you're asking for a budget and they say, look, we've only got two grand. And if you say, what's it gonna take to get three grand? Tell me what it's gonna take internally to get there. Then at least you have more answers and an understanding of what's holding it up. It may just literally be like nothing 'cause there is no additional budget. Or they might say, you're gonna need to throw in this or you're gonna need to take a more role in responsibility here or you're gonna need to build a stronger case. But at least you're getting more clarity around it. And I was like, oh, that is such a good line. And I'm gonna use it. I was telling my sister and she used to work in insurance, she was a negotiator. She was laughing saying that she used to shoot that question down all the time by just saying nothing. I don't care, you're not getting it. But it's still worth the ask right. And I talk about this in the negotiating chapter of my book is that like the more information you have during a negotiation and after a negotiation, the better you can come back. If you just take Noah's the first answer then you're not gonna be able to build a counter offer or you're not gonna build a counter of a counter argument. So it's really important that you get as much information in that moment so that you can come back with a better pitch or you can assess the situation and go, okay, maybe it's time for me to go elsewhere, you know? So it's also really important. But yeah, I'm constantly looking for new ways to kind of land negotiations. One other thing I'd say is, this is particularly useful for people in their own business and side hustles or passion projects is but also works for people working for time is, if you don't like saying the number, so my fee to run this is 2,000 pounds, sometimes it does feel like a cliffhanger that you just ended on a high number. So a strategy that I would use is that I would say the figure and then go on to explain what's included. So my fee to run this is 2,000 pounds and what you get with that is ding, ding, ding, ding, right? And in doing that, you don't end the sentence on the figure and that's not You know about them that's about me psychologically feeling a bit more comfortable with that that being said one of my other tips I give to people is create an awkward silence and don't feel awkward for doing it so often we over ramble and over justify so if you can summarize in one sentence this is my fee and this is what's included tick but if you find yourself going and this is what's included and the reason it makes sense and the reasons that you know if you start over explaining it that's when it runs into you not looking confident in the price. So yeah just a few tips on that but again I think the same goes for when you're asking for a salary read it think if you're asking for a higher salary and then you go and the reason is because I've done this and that did it and you get you know either aggressive or emotionally invested then again it's going to be difficult but I think if you say you know based on my performance and you know for everything we've discussed today the salary I'm looking for is x, y, and z then you know I think that's where it feels but it's trying to figure out what what you feel most comfortable. I'm not going to tell you that you know there's one size fits all because that isn't and it is very much about what makes you feel most confident delivering that number or that figure because that's the most important thing. Absolutely okay Steph I honestly could just keep going but I know that it's trying to wrap things up so I'd love to know what's coming up next fee what's coming up next fee personally what's coming up next fee professionally. So being humble is in its fifth year which is really exciting and something I've been offering businesses which is new is building out training libraries where they kind of purchase my talks as a library for over two years. So a couple of my clients have gone down this path which is great so it's like a real investment in professional development for your employees. It's not just a one off talk because you know you're like oh it's International Women's Day you're actually committing to support your team so that's really exciting. I'm definitely looking at doing more larger scale events at the end of the year to October I'm heading to New York to take foot being on the on tour which is very exciting. I've got a speaking gig out there so I'm going to spend a couple of weeks there trying to build up some excitement around that and then a new community that I've built is called this might help. And it's actually to help people who are trying to support loved ones through mental health issues and trauma. It's something that I've experienced and not know where to find the answers or find support and so it's sort of a discovery platform sharing resources advice and anything that we think might be relevant to understanding and better supporting people in our lives. So that's called this might help and you can follow this might help us on Instagram and that's something I'm going to be running events and online webinars and hopefully a podcast around that as well. So lots of different things bubbling but I actually started that last year and had to take a bit of a pause because work got busy with being humble and trying to run to businesses and all of those things and actually an important one was I did all the branding myself and hated it and so I didn't want to promote it. And that's a really top tip for self promotion or any sort of branding processes, sometimes in order for you to get going you do kind of have to outsource it to the specialist and I know that often requires budget but if you find yourself being the road blocker, then get out of the way and assess the situation and make some changes. So I'm really happy with the new brand and and over the next sort of few months and for the rest of year, the year I'm going to be focusing on growing that as well. That's wonderful, well, I will ensure that everything is linked up so I like to finish every podcast episode by asking my guests, when do you staff feel most well and in alignment. It's not a great question, so good sleep, good rest and when I've not been drinking loads also so I wouldn't say like being completely sober because obviously I like to celebrate moments but absolutely when I've had a few weekends on the track, then I definitely don't feel my most confident most best. And when I have support connection around me it's so important I've actually been living out of the UK of the last six months and I've noticed the lack of connection and how much it means to me and and I'm really looking forward to coming back to the UK and having that again. I think support networks is so important and yeah doing things sounds cheesy but doing things that I love and I think reconnecting with things that you love as time goes and that can be new things or it can be old things but it's okay to reinvent the wheel or try new things if you're no longer getting served. And in previous experiences that did once satisfy you and I think that's something that we kind of struggled to grapple with sometimes like going out with certain friends don't serve you in the same way. And that's okay to go find new environment or maybe you still love going out drinking and that that doesn't fit with your lifestyle anymore. There's lots of things I think it's okay to kind of shed those experience and go find what else you enjoy doing but yeah and also just sometimes sitting on the sofa and resting and binging on Netflix because my job is so it's so energy consuming I really have to show up a lot and there's not a lot of space for me to not show up positively. That does take a lot of energy away I actually did a podcast last year around rest and I found a discovered that there's seven types of rest and the areas that I need to rest is social rest digital rest and I wouldn't say physical too much because I sometimes physical but definitely the socializing rest is something I need and definitely off screen is what I need as well so I definitely feel good when I'm doing both of those things. Yeah well thank you so much for coming on the show it's been such a joy to have you and I know that people are going to take so much away from all of your tips and advice. Thank you thank you for inviting me to speak has been so nice to chat and I'm so excited to sort of listen to the rest of your podcast episode. Thank you so much for tuning into the help home hustle podcast. I hope that you enjoyed this week's episode and were able to take notes on things you can implement in your own life to top up your wellness cup and look to lead your life from a place of abundance not burnout. If you found today's episode valuable and you'd like to support the show please rate and review in your Apple podcast app or whatever you're listening to the show. If you'd like to dive into more feel good things with me find me on Instagram I'm at Monica Beatrice or head over to my blog Monica Beatrice.com. Till next time friends wishing you a beautiful balance of your day.