Extra Content! Meet Drew Dudley - Internationally Acclaimed Leadership Speaker

Hello and welcome to the 10 minute leadership podcast. I'm Dr. Orrin Hertz and welcome to this very special episode, extra content special episode with Drew Dudley, who is sitting in front of me and we've been chatting for the past 10 minutes and he is an absolutely lovely man. I am a huge fan of you Drew. Thank you so, so much for being here and welcome to the show. And it's awesome to be here. I already know it's going to be a great time. Yeah, it will be. It will be so. So the story behind it, I shared with you a little bit and I'll share with the listeners Drew that I've been showing your TED Talk consistently in classes for the past probably 10 years. I think since inception, since it, since it came out and I highly recommend it. I'll put it also in the description for the listeners to listen to your podcast. So they can make the connection about what you're about and what is our conversation about best six and a half minutes of of my life, honestly, because it's just so it's what's amazing about it is that so much information relevant information in six plus minutes. That's unheard of, isn't it? Well, I'll tell you it was originally 12 and I remember it's so interesting the way that our brain talks us into thinking that what we have is can't be any better. And I remember when I sat down to do that, they told me I had six and a half minutes and my best friend said, dude, you can't even introduce yourself in six and a half minutes. And I sat down and I tried so hard and I cut it down to 12 minutes and I was so convinced that this is the densest speech I could possibly give. There is no way we could trim even another 30 seconds. And I could not tell you what those extra six minutes were. I just know I was convinced that the talk could not stand on its own without those extra minutes. And what I discovered is that maybe it was the best thing ever is that I was forced to I guess they call it in writing, they call it murdering your darlings, which I've always found to be a very a very aggressive term, but it means take out these things and aren't essential even though you come to love them. They call it murdering your darlings and it's how you it's how you cut out all of the fat. And so yeah, it's weird. You say I cram so much in six minutes. I think it was an eight minute talk that I was so scared that I actually did it in six and a half minutes, but it is hard. And that's why it was a story because I think the story is the basic unit of human understanding. And if you have only a certain amount of time to share something with the world, make sure that you share a story. And I think that's the key piece because that's what makes it sticky. Yeah, 100%. What led you to it to drew what like how did it come about? My TED Talk is 100% a result of my students at the University of Toronto. I ran the leadership program there for close to a decade. And I used TED Talks all the time, particularly, I believe it's the most popular of all time do schools kill creativity by Sir Ken Robinson, which if you haven't heard that in your listening, please go and watch it. And I loved that TED Talk. And one of my students knew I love TED Talks. He's actually the same one who turned me on to them for the first time. He came in and told me, you know, they're doing one in Toronto. And this is back when TED X events were very rare. I think there was only half a dozen on the planet at the time. They said, they're doing one in Toronto. You should apply because they have two open speaker slots. And they're doing open nominations. And I told him, look, man, I'm just a part time speaker. And I'd always told my students that you're not allowed to say you're just anything. And he threw that right back in my face. And I still, I still sort of demeared. I pushed off. I said, look, I was scared, man. Like TED was a big deal to me. And I was scared about actually putting myself out there. And my students nominated me without my knowledge. I wasn't on Facebook yet. It was still relatively new. This was 2010, I think. So they organized a Facebook campaign to nominate me for Ted Toronto. So when I got the call from the organizers, they said, look, man, we don't know who you are. But the most nominations we got for anyone else was two. And for you, we got 41. So clearly, you're up to something. Would you like to be a part of this? I was not willing to put myself out for Ted. It was 100% the people who cared about me who did it. So when you've got that friend who's got the book or the music or the poetry or the painting, whatever it is that they're afraid to put it in the world, please push them because we won't make ourselves put ourselves out there. But because of my students, I did that. And within a month of putting up doing that talk, my whole life was different. It not only did it get a lot of traction, it was actually two years before it ended up on Ted. But immediately, I was had the opportunity to expand my career and start to travel around the world and work with corporations when previously I'd been working with students all along. So it was 100% other people who pushed me to get over that hump. So if you've got friends, do the same for them. That's absolutely amazing. What a great lesson for us. For anyone who listens, really, that's really amazing. But it also, it speaks, it speaks to your leadership because there is a followership behind you that believe so much in you more than, dare I say, more than you believed in yourself and elevated you and pushed you very gently to do this, which is absolutely amazing. Now, I'm going to ask you a difficult question. What's that about? What do you think? What do you think is special about Drew Dudley that so many people wanted you to do this? You know what, man, I think it's the stories. When I was younger, when I was in charge of a charity here in Canada called Shinerama, terrible name, students fighting cystic fibrosis, it was a shoe shining event. And in that process, it was my job to train the senior leadership of that organization, who then in turn change the next train, the next year of 130 people who ran it around the country, who in turn motivated the 35,000 volunteers that we had every year. And what I discovered when I was trying to do, and I don't like the term training, it always makes me feel like you're sticking a milkbone on someone's nose and making them not eat it till you tell them. I don't like leadership training. I like leadership development. And I think what I did is I learned early on that if you want to teach people something, tell them a story to which they can relate and tell them a story that alleviates a fear. So one of the things I always ask myself before I go in front of an audience is what is this audience afraid of? Because leaders find ways to alleviate fear. Well, I've always joked that the difference between politics and leadership is that in politics, you add fear to try to win. And in leadership, you try to remove fear to succeed. And for me, I think that's what does it is that almost everything that I try to teach, I teach through narrative. And what I do is I try to say every time you're saying something to an audience, you have to share your stories drew, but it has to be about the audience. Because we've all we've all gone to speeches and presenters who tell a great and remarkable and unique story, but it's only their story. Like, I can't relate to walking on the moon. I can't relate to climbing Everest, but I can relate to the barriers in my life that feel like Everest, if that makes any sense. And so I think that's what did it for my students is that I was always sharing stories that I hoped they could see their stories in. And when people can look at you and see reflections of their own story, I think there's a connection there. And I like to think that that's what drove a lot of my students is that I had found a way to share stories with them that had resonated with the challenges that they were facing. And then they want to hear more stories, especially if the story you're sharing is designed to make them more successful and less afraid. That's amazing, Drew. And if I may add further more, whether you probably realize it, but whether you realize it or not, you view your students the same way I view my students as fellow humans. The fact that we are professor, teacher, or the person behind the podium doesn't make us better. It just makes us knowledgeable on the content that we are delivering. But if we see people eye to eye, I believe correct me for wrong, they can feel it energetically. They know that you are right there with them, that you don't feel superior, they're not inferior to you. And at the end of the day, they're just humans in this collective that are sharing knowledge and learning. The only reason I'm on Snapchat is because of my students. Because one field trip, we took a field trip a few years ago. And the students kept talking, snap snap, what are you talking about? They're like Snapchat. Professor, you know, Snapchat, I'm like, no, what's that? And they're like, oh, you're really uncool. I'm like, what? Yeah. Give them my phone. Fix this. Set me up with teach me. Right? So let's go. And this is why I'm on Snapchat. So when again, Drew, correct me for wrong. If we generally in leadership, students are not, if we are able to connect with people at where they are, at the eye level on the human level, that they, they're in in that journey of life, then leadership thrives. Am I under I track with this? I think so too. And I think one of the, you totally are. I think what you're talking about is the fact that when you have power and people know it and you don't abuse it, when you set it aside to try to build other people up, they see that because the fact is when you're a professor, you have power. And everyone knows that in almost every interpersonal dynamic, someone has more power than the other. And because power is so addictive and tends to easily sway people's behavior to actually see someone set it aside, to not use the power that they have that they could use. And instead, find a way to share that with someone else. Look, when you set aside, power, you have over someone, you are sharing that power with them. And I think that one of the things that you just hit on that I just wanted to mention to people listening is that I think that you're talking the way I do about a different type of humility. And we, everyone wants to be humble. Or at least I think lots of people want to be humble. We've seen a few who don't, but we know how people respond to those individuals, which I think just makes us want to act more with more humility. But I think we teach humility and properly, particularly the young people. I think that we embrace and teach humility as making sure you deny the best things about you so that you don't make other people uncomfortable, particularly young women are taught this because women learn very early on. What happens when you make men uncomfortable? It often does not work out well for you. And so this idea that we should hide our light under a bushel is at the expression. In order to be humble, I think is dangerous humility is not denying what makes you great. It's recognizing that what makes you great doesn't make you better than other people. And you just really hit on that, which is acknowledge that there's a power dynamic. That's just the natural way it is between student and teacher. That's the natural way it is between boss and employee, even though I don't love those terms. But if we can find a way to share that power not even share it. But by setting aside that power dynamic, we are sharing some of the power that we were lucky enough to be given simply by the nature of a relationship. And we need to one, respect their power differential in our relationships, particularly those of us who are straight white dudes, like there is a power dynamic in this world that we benefit from. And look, I know there's lots of people out there rolling their eye saying I'm tired of hearing that. But there is. It's not that I don't work hard. It's that my hard work gets me farther than other people. And I need to recognize that. But when you can set that aside, you're sharing that power. And I think that you hit that right on the head by looking at people where they are. What you're doing is setting aside a natural power dynamic that they know is there and in doing so you empower that. Yeah, amazing. This is, do you know, I have to tell you speaking of stories and real life. And I'll share it on air. I started seeing a few months ago. I started seeing this guy who is Vietnamese American. And we started dating. And I recognize that with all office education, MBA, honors college, bachelor's degree, simply because the way he looks and sounds, he is skipped on opportunities. So so again, I know people cringe about white middle age or whatever, but but it comes with some sort of a privilege. I mean, you're absolutely right. You know, and even even being gay, it's like, all right, no one cares anymore. You know, it it used to, it used to be like a thing. Oh, okay, well, you get you discriminated against it. Like we're just like the rest of the rest of everyone today, I believe at least. So at least it never really stopped me from advancing my career or losing friends or family members or anything like that. But it's it's it really gave me perspective and I'm I'm sad for him. I really am sad for him because well, I'm biased because I like the guy, right? But yeah, the potential there. I'm like, oh my God, you're missing out on so many opportunities. No fault of your own just by the way you look and sound. So I agree with you wholeheartedly. And I invite everyone who doesn't think that way to just diversify your friends portfolio and talk to other people who do not look and sound like you. And you will hear some stories, man. I mean, I I'm sure you heard them before. I love what you just said, man, your friend portfolio. Like what a cool term, like a diversify your friend portfolio. Until we listen to the stories, man, we just don't understand. I even had I was going on a tour. I was just this is odd, man. It's so easy to talk to you. I was in New York and my girlfriend has turned me on to getting pedicures. I just find it the most wildly relaxing thing. And it's interesting because I like getting my nails painted. I don't know why I just love that little flair of your personality. But you have to ask when you're a man because they just assume that that isn't what you're actually going to want to do. But I had them done up sparkly for Christmas. We were going to see the Nutcracker. And so we decided to get a little flashy. And people are like the Nutcracker is flashy. It is in New York at Christmas. People really do it up for that event. And someone said to me, you know, you're touring in some some countries in the next little while where you should take off the sparkly nail polish because you'll be in sandals. And there could be blowback from it looking as like looking as if you might they're saying a sparkly toenails equals gain some cultures. And you don't want to do that. And it never occurred to me that I had to change. And I'm not that's not even my reality, my friend. And people were saying to me, who love me, be careful. And I have never had to deal with that kind of lack of privilege to be like, I can do whatever the heck I want. In any way, I want anywhere I want. And they were like, but you shouldn't because you may pay for that. And I was really an eye opener. And you just, and it's just a constant reminder that there's so much I haven't faced yet. And obviously that's not the topic of this particular podcast. But I've been thinking a lot about some of these new revelations, not new revelations, but a more openness in the world to embrace the fact that we have been hurting people without realizing it. And the word that seems to have been used for that is woke. And there's been a real pushback on that term. The way I've tried to reframe it for people, because as soon as you hear the word, there's already been two divisions, right? It's that you're either woke or you're either anti woke. And I thought if we can pick apart what the word is supposed to mean, for me, and this is me trying to do a tiny bit of my own like social leadership, I guess, because this is how I tried to explain it to people who may hate the idea, is that woke means what I think that means is protecting more people. And for me, family values and conservative values is all about protection, wanting to protect people, things and people that are important to you. And for me, what the concept of woke means is that the society is coming to better understand that people have been being hurt by things we're doing without realizing it. And what we're being told now is now that you realize it, would you please stop. And so for me, if you are somebody who wants to protect things, if you are someone who is about family values and community values and and taking care of things and the old school way of community, you know, like, however it's been explained to me what conservative values are about, then what we're actually asking is for you to protect more people for you to open up this embrace of protection and support and say there's all these people in the world who are being hurt. And the reason they were being hurt is because we were saying and doing things we just didn't know any better even if we should have. But now we know. So now we get to choose, are we going to be protectors of people or are we not? And it seems to me that if we take away the word woke and replace it with protection and support, it might be a little bit easier to understand what the overall goal is, which is all the ways that people have been hurt in ways that we didn't know, but we can control, let's control it now. Because if you don't, why not? Now that you know, why not? And to me, let's, and I know that's not what the topic is about, but that we talk about on this podcast. But just that we went down that road, I just, I just wanted to mention that out there because I know that some people are like, I've had enough of this. I don't want to hear anymore about privilege, et cetera. I look at it as protection that there's people who are being hurt and we have the opportunity to hurt them less. And I think any decent human being will choose to hurt other humans less. And that is what woke actually means. It means expanding our tent of protection to more people now that we know we can. A hundred percent. And I actually like drew that we're going down this road. I mean, you and I talked about before, before we started recording that, this is not scripted. And I think one of the things that the listener, I get feedback from the listeners is that they like that it's not scripted. They like that there's a free flow conversation. And I will share with you all of it is perspective, isn't it? And it's really important to leadership because perspective and leadership go hand in hand. My ex, go ahead, go ahead. No, no, I was just saying I really like that. Okay, you're like, okay, great. My ex of eight years were together for eight years. We separated because he at a time slipped into a really massive depression. We couldn't figure it out. It was weighing on the relationship. And about two years after we had separated with a broken heart because we really loved each other, Jordan phoned me up and said, if we stayed friends and he said, oh, I'm going to figure it out. I'm like, what is it? What's going on? And he said, I'm in the wrong body. I'm in the wrong body. And that was my reaction. And then at the same time, I'm like, okay, I can see that. I can see that. Being a very feminine gay man, I'm like, all right, well, how do you feel? And she, I will give her the right pronouns now, said, very liberated. And I'm going to go with it. I'm going to go with the surgeries. I'm going to transition. And I was so happy for her. And I said, Jordan, I, I didn't see it coming, but teach me more. Tell me more. And since then, so my ex now is five years transitioned. And I have learned so much about what it means to be a transgender person in America and how difficult it is. And what she's going through, we stayed really good friends. I mean, some are so that we're spending Christmas together at her family in Virginia. So we just, we never, I mean, we separate it romantically, but she's my best friend. And it's amazing. And just a perspective, because I, listen, I asked me five years ago, what do you think about trans people? They're a part of my umbrella, LGBTQ, a plus, whatever. I don't know much about them. I wish them well. I have learned so much from her. And I translate everything I've learned from her into leadership and, and protection of humans. And she brings so much to the table. She's such a talented person. She is an aspiring actress. She lives in Los Angeles, aspiring actress, real estate agent, dog Nanny. And now recently, she started working like a day job for ADT security. I mean, she brings so much to the table. Yet, for her to get a proper job, or even a proper acting job is difficult. And for no good reason, Drew, I know again, I'm biased. I will always love her. I will always love Jordan. But forget that. Put that aside for a minute. She has so much value and so much potential. And if any later out there could see beyond the transgender, beyond the fact that she maybe sound like a man who doesn't look womanly enough or whatever, I'm sorry, bullshit. They're hung up on. Just put that aside for a minute. Look inside that person and what they can bring to the table. My God, you just hired one of the best employees you could ever hire. And unfortunately, Drew, and you know it, it's not fully there in all industry, not just hospitality industry. In all industries, they're still like transgender, I don't know. Do we want this as a face of our company? You know what's tough, man? You know what's so tough? Because everything you said is so true. And everybody before they form an opinion on anyone else should have to get to know someone from the particular group that or the many groups that they represent. Nobody represents a group. But you know what it also makes me realize? Is that that also means that I have to sit down and do the exact same thing to the people who frustrate me? Like I need to, we can say that, like now I know people in this community and once you get to know people in the community, you can't hate. But that also means that I have to look at my life and say, when was the last real conversation I had with a red hat? You know what I mean? Like it's hard because I so agree with everything you just said, but it also makes me realize that I haven't sat down and had enough real conversations with people that I have judged automatically by who they choose to support. And it's hard, right? Because when you see someone support a law that you know that you feel from the very bottom of your soul is an affront to human rights and human dignity. But I because I won't talk sometimes to the people who support that, I don't understand them any better than they understand the people that they're attacking. And I think that one of the things if we're going to talk leadership that's going to be real tough for those of us who look, I'm not going to paint you, but I'm a lefty, right? And so I need to do a better job. We all need to do a better job with the groups that we create and the enemies that we generate in our own minds. Because right now we're all talking and talking points and we're all judging each other's character by turning ourselves into characters that that are part of some grander battle that none of us asked to be a part of. And we're all fighting on behalf of people more powerful than us. And I think that it's hard, man. Like as you're saying that, I'm just like, man, I can't say that's true. About any of the groups of people that really frustrate me, I need to be able to talk about my conservative friends the same way that you just talked, you know, to say, once I got to know, once I better understood, once I tried to learn, doesn't mean I agree, but it does mean that I understand. And I think we it's so hard, man, because I know I don't do a good enough job in it. I don't know if you feel the same way, but I know I don't do a good enough job listening. I do. I feel the same way, Drew. And but at the same time, I forgive myself. I'm aware and I'm trying to do better. So I try not to beat myself up. I always try to have a positive talk with Orin, right? Every day positive talk, you know, you look good with your hair, right? You look slick, my friend. You look extraordinarily aerodynamic today. Thank you. This is great. I love it. And you know, and sometimes I've learned I have to share with you, Drew, that sometimes the conversation, I'll give it the example, and I'll give, well, everyone who listens to the example, one of my colleagues here at the university, a one name names who's a good friend of mine, one day we had a discussion. I can't remember how you came about it. And he said, do you know when at some point in my life, I will probably go to Africa and hunt an elephant or large animal. And I said to him, I'm not going to mention his name. I said, friend, we will never agree on this. So let's do the following. Let's not have a discussion about it, because I feel I just I can't wrap my head around it. I hope you don't do it. For the sake of our friendship, let's like never bring it up again. And if you do it, just make sure I don't know about it. I just ask a few. And I said, if you want to hear my point of view, I will share it with you. He said, no, I don't care. I just want to do it. I mail me not do it. And I said to him, friend, I again, I'm not saying his name. I hope you don't. And we're going to leave it at that. And do you know we're good friends? I don't hold it against him. It's his point of view. I hope, hope and pray. He won't do it. I will never understand it. And I'm not even open to this is something I'm saying on air. I'm not open to discussion. This is just it just it is so mind boggling to me that nothing can justify killing an innocent animal, especially an elephant who is so intelligent and so social and so a part of our own DNA, I believe. I just can't. I can't. And I maybe I tried, but this is where I draw the line. And I'm okay with it. Do you know, I'm okay with it. I just I stand on my ground. If you gave me a justification, if you said, or in my wife is about to starve, I have to kill this animal. All right. All right. Let's talk. But just for sports, I'm sorry. I wonder if it's power, my friend. I've always, because I wonder the same is that power such an interesting thing because to be able to one like hold shoot a gun, it must be, it's I've done it before. It's an extraordinarily powerful feeling. And the world will work to make us feel less powerful. And I think it's weird because there are two different ideas, which is power brings security, right, which is why we often seek it. But at the same time, there's the phrase heavy is the head that wears the crown. And as you gain more power, there's also more responsibility. So one thing I always try to ask myself is what power am I seeking when I do this new thing? Am I doing this just so that I feel more powerful and as a result, feel more secure? But at the same time, power comes with responsibility. So it's a very dangerous thing to like power is one of the most powerful things. Power is one of the most difficult things to handle safely. And I think that we all seek it in different ways. And I think that the more disempowered people feel, the more likely they're going to work really hard to find other outlets to feel powerful and secure. And so I think that I've always looked at the different things we do. You can always boil it down to how are we trying to feel more secure in ourselves? And some of us do it ways that others wouldn't agree with. But for me, it always comes back to a better understanding of why we're seeking power, what power we're seeking. And have we given a lot of thought to how much safer or stronger will actually feel when we get it? Because one of the things I realize is that when I think it through to the end, I realize I'm not going to be that better off. Yeah. And you know, to lighten it up a little bit. Yeah, we got intense here, didn't we? Yeah, we did. We did. At the risk, I think it's a good joke. The last thing I told my friend, I said, I don't understand. Because according to your wife, you don't have a small penis. So you don't understand. And that's how we kind of ended that conversation and if you can end it, if you can end it like, it's hard, man, it is hard to have one of the challenges with any time society changes, it changes dramatically. There's a big swing and then there's a correction and then there's, you know, it's like anything that's a pendulum, it's going to swing back and forth. One of the things I fear is that because we are so afraid of upsetting people that the art of nuanced conversation has died and that to acknowledge that someone you disagree with may have a point or that there's something that to actually engage in a conversation with someone to seek common ground is a betrayal of your stance. And I don't think that's a leadership action. I think that one of the things that we really have to work hard right now is to not let nuanced conversation die, to not allow someone to out loud express a doubt or a fear that they have or an ignorance that they have. And I think or an ignorance they feel that they have. And right now if we attack people for showing their ignorance, they're going to hide it. And that to me is an issue. How do we as leaders, each and every one of us listening and being a part of this? How do we save nuance in this world? Because it is such a nuance, gray-scaled world that as long as we turn it and I sound so cliched here because I don't like saying things in a million people have already said. But if we make everything black and white, we're never going to truly better understand. And understanding, it's not love, it's not, you know, people say, oh, if we can just do things with love, I don't think if that's the key. I think it's to do things with understanding. And sometimes it's understanding that leads to love, even if it at the same time leads to disagreements. Yeah. Oh, beautiful. A hundred percent music to my ears. So Drew, talk about your book. Oh gosh. Yes. Well, the book actually came about because if you get to speak for about 10 years, you always get about 45 minutes to 60 minutes. The thing is the amount of stuff that you've learned over those 10 years starts to expand past 45 to 60 minutes. And so what happens is you keep coming up with new ideas and you share them in their 45 to 16 format. But then what do you do with all the other stuff that you've developed? What do you do with all the other stuff that you've moved on from? But you still feel as valuable. The book was my way of saying, look, over 10 years, maybe I'll do one every 10 years because that allows you to then say, okay, this is what I've learned over the last decade. We don't have time to share all of this in a presentation. So here is the book that can be the accompaniment. If you liked the hour, here's the other 10. You know, the other 10 hours if I read it out loud. So the book is a step-by-step process that we developed at the University of Toronto that allows you to better identify and live your core values every day. It's based in behavioral psychology. I'm not going to bore everybody with all the details. But it basically allows you to say, these are the core values with which I hope to live on a daily basis. And then it gives a way to make it more likely that your brain will actually drive you to engage in those behaviors, making you a more honest, value-driven leader. It's designed for people who don't think of themselves as leaders because it reinforces and focuses on the idea that leadership exists in these individual moments of interpersonal impact. And for me, the six that I wanted to embody every day were impact, growth, courage, empowerment, class, and self-respect. And this particular process makes sure that I live at least three of those every day almost unconsciously at this point. The book allows you to figure out what are your values that you hope to live. And then here's how to go about doing it. And it's driven a lot by this day one concept, which comes from my personal experience with alcohol and going into treatment for alcohol addiction, which says that if you don't want to have a drink for the rest of your life, you have to make one non-negotiable decision each day. I will not have a drink today. But then you don't worry about whether you made the decision yesterday and you don't worry about the thousands more times, you have to make the decision in the future. You just make the decision today. And I believe that our leadership can be the same way. Don't worry about how you led yesterday. Don't worry about how many more days you have to lead with these values. Just worry about saying at the end of today, I will be able to point to these individual moments where I live these values. That's where leadership lies. But we can't do it if we don't think about it. And if we do it well thinking about it for long enough, we start to do it without thinking about it. Conscious behaviors become unconscious behaviors which make some habits. That's what the book's all about. A step-by-step process on how to go through it. It's called this is day one, a practical guide to leadership that matters, available at both reputable and irreputable bookstores. And I don't even know if irreputable is a word. I think it is. Yes. I'm going to be like Shakespeare and just make them up. Guess what, man? Both of us might have Riz because it's the new word of the year. So there's nothing wrong with making up a word if it fits your needs. Yeah. Why not? This is great, Drew. And you know what I love is that you unconsciously showed vulnerability and talked about, you just, I'm going to put it this way. In this NH, everyone, especially with social media, is so obsessed to show how perfect we are, how perfect our lives are and everything. And you, without even thinking, because I think it was unconscious, shared your battle with alcohol, which makes you a vulnerable leader, which is a beautiful thing. And it's a prime example of how vulnerability is important because none of us is perfect. None of us have perfect lives. We want to believe we have perfect lives, but we're not addressing our imperfections, sharing them when appropriate, asking for help and not being afraid. It's a beautiful thing, Drew. I think you agree with me. It's a beautiful thing. And curious to you for fighting it because my very good friend Julian is now five years sober. And I've seen Julian in his words. And I see him in his best now. And I am so part of him every single day. It's absolutely amazing and inspiring. So I want to thank you. Yeah, absolutely. One day at a time. And I'll tell you, I so appreciate that. And I'm so happy you said it on a very practical level because, you know, with, you know, as I mentioned to before I started, I was just diagnosed with the earlier this year with ADHD, which is a real adjustment when you're 46 years old. But a lot of things make sense. I call it the Tarantino effect, where you learn something at the end. And then you can go back to the beginning and go, oh, okay, now everything makes sense. But one of the reasons is because my next presentation, my next speech that I'm creating is actually about vulnerability. But not just why it's important. I think the bigger thing is that when you're speaking, you got to teach. And so for me, the presentation I want to give is how to be vulnerable strategically and safely. And so I think that vulnerability isn't weakness. Vulnerability's openness and all the new research is showing that vulnerable leaders are far more effective at creating strong bonds and effective teams. But how do you go about doing it? How do you not overdo it? How do you make sure that important relationships that are structured in certain ways? You know, boss, employee, seniors, I'm not going to use the word subordinate. But everyone knows what I mean is because I just use the word. But ultimately, I want to talk about how do we choose what to be vulnerable about making sure that it's that we're doing it safely for us. And we're doing it safely for other people. What are the strategies for vulnerability? And I'm so excited to hear you say that that is something you believe is important in leadership because it's what I'm about to dedicate the next four weeks of my life creating. So you just made me feel a lot better about that. That is amazing. Oh my god. What a great synchronicity. And it really is, you know, I've learned, I don't know how and I guess my own evolution of the importance of vulnerability. Back in June of this year, my cat of 19 years, it was the end of his life. And I couldn't come to class. And I shared with my students exactly why. I said, I understand that not all of you understand or I'm sorry, I understand that not all of you can grasp the connection I had with my cat. To some of you, it may be very silly. But I lost someone really important to me and I need a few days to grieve. I'm sorry for canceling class. And they'll really nice about it. And I know for fact, out of 200 soon as I teach this semester, some of them said, really, your cat died, you can't come to class. Whilst others cried. So, but the key is, I'm not afraid, I talk about it again here on air. Willie, my cat was important to me. And I knew it was the end of his life. He lived, he far exceeded 19 years is long time for a cat. And he gave me a lot of great memories and some love bites that are just gone now. But the key is, I'm not afraid to be vulnerable and say, hey, listen, I am your leader, but I'm hurting right now. I'm sad right now. I need to be in bed. I need to cry. I just need to go through this process. And I'll be okay. Just honor it please and just know what I'm going through as opposed to classes cancel. I'll see you next week. I think the why is important. I think I humanized the experience for students. I actually know I did because some of them literally one of the students when I came back said, Professor, I give you a hug, you know, because she was so sad for me. And we hugged for a minute. It was beautiful. And vulnerability is important because we're human. We're just human, not we? Hey, put the, put the toughest people in the world who hate each other the most into a room full of cats or puppies or kittens and puppies. And you know what, a lot of the world's problems would get solved. So look, we're going to connect with different souls all through our lives. Some of them will be human. Some of them will be animal. I'm sure there's another category. I'm not even thinking about right now, but anytime of something that becomes a part of your soul, a soul that becomes a part of yours, anytime you lose one, it's pain. And I think that being open about that because hey, and what it also does, it says to people that you can be open with me when you're hurt, because when you're leading a group and someone is wounded, you need to know that someone is wounded. And it's not your job to judge the bullet that wounded them. All right, for some people, you might be like, that shouldn't have caused it. But you know what? It's not our job to judge the bullet that caused the wound. It's our job to recognize that the wounded person is in front of us. And like when someone's hurt in front of you, do we really need to spend time figuring out whether or not they deserve to be hurt or that they're right and feeling that they're hurt? All that matters is they feel hurt. And you're not going to talk anybody out of an emotion. It just doesn't happen. Oh, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful words. Drew, I could talk with you for hours. And I think I couldn't too, man. You know, I had questions ready, but I knew this is going to be a free flow conversation. So before we conclude, is there anything else the listeners should know about you, about what you're doing? Or I really want you to promote yourself because I really appreciate your time here. And I know for someone like you, because I feel like it's probably hard for you to promote yourself, because it's hard for me to promote myself. But please do anything else we need to know about what Drew is doing now. You know what, my friends? DrewDudley.com, D-R-E-W-D-U-D-L-E-Y.com is the place to find out anything that's going on. And almost all my social media Instagram, which is really where you'll find me. Instagram and Facebook are @day1drew, D-A-Y-O-N-E-D-R-E-W. And all kinds of stuff is going to be on there. If you're interested, in some of the new presentations when they come out, particularly the vulnerability one, you can go to the website, and you can join a mailing list there. And when it comes time for that new presentation to come out, and we do a lunch and learn, we do a live showcase broadcast, but only for people, quote, on the list, join the list. And we'd be more than happy to help you out. And you can check out the book on Amazon. You can read some reviews there and decide if it sounds like it's a good fit for you. This is day one of Practical Guide to Leadership that Matters. All this, including the links, will be on the description of this podcast, this special edition podcast episode. This is quite the 10 minute podcast. Yeah, I know. It's more like a one hour, but listen, with Drew Dudley, it's like what an honor. Yes, this is it. This is the book. And I ordered it on Amazon. I'm following you on Instagram. I will follow you on Facebook. And I do hope we keep in touch. I will end the recording now, Drew, unless any final words for us here. Just this is meant the world to me. This is not like the usual podcast I've done where this has been really cool to talk about ideas and to feel safe doing it, man. So I really appreciate that. I appreciate it to Drew so very much. I envision it going it that way. And I'm so happy it did because I just just divide by guy. We just met, right? But I'm like, yeah, I don't think is an asshole. I think we'll be. Really good conversations are true. I hope so. I'm just checking to make sure that I'm okay for my next one, my friend. Okay, yes. So let me stop the recording, Drew Dudley. Thank you so very much for being here. Thank you, everyone, for listening to this special episode of the 10 minute leadership podcast. And I look forward to our episode next week. Thank you for tuning in everyone.