Exposing The $300,000,000 SMMA | EP. 10

[MUSIC] Hey, what's up? This is Sully from God's smack. Strap on those boots, baby, because you are now in the trenches of the war room. With the one and only mistress Carrie right here on the mistress Carrie podcast. What's up? This is Joe Rogan, you're listening to mistress Carrie. I have so lovely, good to you guys. Hey, this is Brent from Shine Down, you're listening to mistress Carrie. Hey, Carrie, go put your bra on, girl. Hey, this is Steven Tyler, and you be listening to the baddest bitch in Boston. Mistress Carrie. What's up? This is Aaron from Stain, and you're listening to mistress Carrie. Hi, everybody. This is Dave Grohl, and the food fighters, and you're listening to the one and the only mistress Carrie. Hey, this is David from the band to serve. You're listening to the baddest bitch in Boston. Mistress Carrie. Hi, Bruce Dickens in here from Iron Maiden. Yes, indeed, Miss Whiplash herself. Miss Mrs. Carrie is here to unchain your brain. Hi, this is Flea from the Red Hot Shelley Peppers. You're listening to mistress Carrie. This is Dennis Larry. You are listening to my favorite mistress Carrie. Hey, this is Corey from Stone Sour, and you're listening to You Have a Privilege of Wisdom to Mistress Carrie. Oh, God. Oh, yes. Hey, it's mistress Carrie reporting for duty from MCHQ for episode 305 of the Miss for his Carrie podcast. The totes are getting ready to release their new album, The Charmer, Coming Up on May 1st. The band is also hitting the road with a stop in Boston at the House of Blues on May 20th, with local age vandaliers and sparta. Those tickets are on sale now. Lead singer and guitarist, Vaden Todd Lewis is my guest this week, who checked in on the show to talk about the band's long awaited eight studio album, and to talk about the recording process with the late Steve Albini. We also talked about 90s music, mental health, Mississippi Queen, ACDC, Spinal Tap, Truck Stop, Travel, and so much more. He's got one of the most distinctive voices in rock and roll, and it is impossible for you to have escaped the totes music over the years. I am so excited. He accepted my invitation to come on the show. So allow me to introduce you to Vaden Todd Lewis from the totes. Hello. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thanks for having me. I don't know if you remember me, but I interviewed you multiple times because I was on the air at WAF in Boston for years, and you guys in the mid 90s were like a house band for us in Boston. Oh, sure. Yeah. We had some fun parties with you guys providing the soundtrack. Yeah. So I, I mean, I remember all of that time period. A lot of people, a lot of younger people are analyzing the 90s now and giving it the credit it deserves for the amazing music that got made in that decade. But I think if you were in the middle of it, did you realize what a powerful decade in music it was? Obviously, the totes hit huge, but all of the other music getting made around the totes. Sometimes it's hard to realize exactly how powerful of a musical moment it is while you're actually in it. You know, I knew that there was a big change happening, but I was just up to my eyeballs in my career and just it was kind of hard to zoom out at that time in your life. You know what I mean? So it was like later, much later when I looked back and went damn, looking all the stuff. But I remember just the change in radio, for example, you know, our first couple of tours, it was our, we had to stay on the label and our part of that was tuning into whatever station was supposed to be playing us, whatever we rolled the van into whatever town. And you know, I would hear a sandwich between Ted Nuget and Fog Hat and like, it was like, what's going on? Something is changing, but I don't know what's going on. So it was just a weird, weird cool time. Yeah. And just the amount of prolific albums, it was like all of the bands felt like this friendly competition and it elevated all the music because every time somebody came out with an album, it was so good that it was like, okay, our next record has got to be better and looking back now, especially since, since 2024, because all of those 94 albums were having those big 30th anniversaries of which you guys were apart. When you started looking at the list of albums that came out in that one year, it was like, oh my god. Yeah. Yeah, it was nuts. Yeah, talking to my daughter, you know, how kids are like, this was years ago. She's 23 now. She's different person, but when she was teenager and learning about music and stuff and it liked the green day came on from on the radio from their first record. And I said, oh, yeah, they were down the studio from us in Los Angeles doing this record while we were finishing our vours and she will shut up. You know, just couldn't believe it. And I'm like, yeah, it's a cool, a lot of cool stuff all happening all very close to each other, you know. I feel like I'm that walking bumper sticker now that I used to laugh at that said I may be old, but I got to see all the cool bands. And now I'm that person because like, you know, my kids are 17 and 19 and they're like, you were at Woodstock 94 and I was like, and 99. I was there. I wasn't there for the original one, but I got to see the two in the 90s. And yeah, the music was that good. The birth of Lala Paloza, the start of the Osfest, like all of these huge cultural things that are getting looked back at on YouTube now. It's nuts. Yeah, yeah. Love it. I have a theory about music. Tell me what you think about it that you have two phases of your musical identity. There's the soundtrack to your childhood. So that's the music that gets forced upon you unwillingly. And then at some point in your adolescence, you find something that you decide you like, whether it's a song, a band, an album. And from then on out, music is your identity that you built for yourself. So what was this soundtrack to your childhood? But then what changed it for you? What band, what song, what album did you go? Hold on. I like that even if nobody else does. Well, very young childhood was East Texas, whatnot, and just whatever was on the radio that my dad put on, which was bluegrass country at the time when it was, I'm going to get in trouble, when it was still country, sorry. But yeah, like that kind of stuff was my very early upbringing. And then once I got old enough to have a say in what goes on the radio, it went to rock. And all the classic rock, ZZ Top was a big influence on you. Yeah, growing up in Texas, how could it not be? Yeah, yeah. And then sometime in my teens, in my late teens, probably, I heard, take me to the river, talking heads cover of that song. And I went and bought the record and it just blew my mind. I'd never heard anything like it. It was so like, there's somebody saw, don't even have a guitar solo. What are they doing? You know, it was like it's so weird. And that really blew my mind. And then a few years later, I heard the first Pixie's album and that was a game changer, man. That was just, let's just start everything all over from here. So those two bands mushed together in my mind with that whole underlayment of classic rock is kind of what I built what I do on. I'm so fortunate to be able to talk to musicians as part of my job because I have zero musical ability myself. My clarinet playing days in the marching band did not last long. Plus there's no heavy metal clarinet. And so I'm so fascinated by the inherent musical ability that people possess. And it comes up all the time on the show about whether or not it's a learned skill and behavior or whether or not you think there's a genetic component to it. So are you the first musician in your family or did you grow up with people playing music around because that's not something I grew up with. There was nobody in my life playing music at home on instruments, the radio all the time. But well, I grew up in the church. My father was a preacher and whenever the organist or pianist could make it my mom filled in. And so but she would tell you that she's not a musician. She just reads the sheet music. But if you ever, I don't know if you've ever been exposed to this music before, but like just gospel music and whatnot. Yeah. And the music, their quarter notes, Blang, Blang, Blang, Blang, Blang. But when people play it, it's all flourishes and felled in. And there's like, and I'm like, well, see, that's me. You're a musician. You're doing that. And she was like, no, that's just the way it goes. And just like totally discounted being a musician. So yeah, I mean, I've always been drawn to it. She was big influence. I learned to play piano when I was a kid. And yeah, I just started guitar. I was like 16. Yeah. - It's definitely something where you either have the ability I think or you don't like. There are people that can learn to play the notes like you're saying. And then there's people that can do something. Like before I was a radio DJ, I worked in like lighting and staging and stuff for concerts and there's this big holiday concert. They call it the Black Nativity in the first integrated church in Boston every year. And it's the telling of the Nativity, but it's done with a 300 person like Baptist, like a gospel choir. And there are these kids and these old ladies that can sing like it's coming out of their bone marrow. And I don't care how many lessons you take, you can either do that or you can't. - Yeah, yeah, I guess so, yeah. - Like there's just, you can learn scales but there's a difference between scales and something coming out of you that you got from somewhere else. Your jeans were wherever. - You know, people hate to be braggie. I don't wanna be braggie. But I like, I never considered myself really a singer. Like I literally started singing in a cover band because nobody wanted to do it. And that's why I started. And the only reason that I started, and I didn't enjoy it. And then I started my own band. And I was like, well, I'm writing these words. I'm gonna sing them. And so we recorded the whole first record, Robert Neck, and we get into the studio, the mixing studio. I go out to New York by myself to mix with Andy Wallace. And you know, Andy Wallace is just like the next level, right? So I'm all intimidated and we're sitting around talking in between work. And he asked me about all that. And I said, well, yeah, I just started because nobody else would do it. And I'll never forget. He said, you don't sing like somebody who just nobody else will do it. You just, he gave me just this confidence that like, it changed me. You know, when somebody like that gives you a, it was just awesome. So from then on, I'm like, yeah, I kinda, I'm gonna take this seriously. - Well, not only that, but I think with, and obviously you can attest to this as well. Guitar players are always looking for their own signature tone. And I think with vocalists, there are singers that you hear one note and you know who it is. - Sure. - You have a voice like that where, where, you know, I don't care who you are, you hear possum kingdom, you know it's you because nobody else's voice sounds like that. So the idea, you know, Getty Lee had a quote that I ask all bass players that come on the show that he said, nobody sets out to play the bass. Everybody plays guitar and then they join a band and they need a bass player and you get drafted in, you get picked. And so I think it's kind of funny that you just kind of became the singer that way. - Yeah. - There's somebody needed to do it. And it just happened to be the guy with the signature voice. That doesn't sound like anyone else. - Yeah, I guess part of me always wanted to be, you know, a singer and a band. I just had fantasies when I was a little kid of performing in front of my elementary school even. And, but I just never thought, you know, from freaking Fort Worth, Texas and nowhereville and like, when, sure, that's gonna happen, you know. So, you know, I just didn't have the self confidence to do it and even as I put the band together, it was almost like a dare to like give us a gig. I dare you, give us a record deal. I dare you, you know. (laughing) And people did and it worked out. So I had to kind of reevaluate myself at that point. - The fronting of the band, that wasn't the intimidating thing for you. The recently with the anniversary of the passing of Taylor Hawkins, there was a lot of people talking about his influence on the food fighters. And the band members said that one of the things he did was galvanize the bands to be so solid so that Dave Grohl could get over being uncomfortable as the frontman and focus on being the face of the food fighters because that did not come naturally to him. And they didn't want him to have to worry about them. So he could just focus on being the frontman. Did you inherently become comfortable fronting the band? Or was it something that you gained confidence because your vocals were distinctive and that allowed you to take the position. 'Cause fronting a band is a lot different than being in the band. - Well, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a lot of a multi level question because I've had, well, I talk a lot about mental health. I don't know how far you wanna go down that rabbit hole. - You can go down, it comes up on the show all the time. - I've had my doubts about myself from the jump street and I finally got help. - Geez, only like three, four years ago. And it's changed my whole world. But prior to that, I had to just convince myself that either I've gotten really good at fooling all these people or I'm really good at what I do. It's one of those two and it depends on what day you ask me which one it is, but it's one of those two. And I finally got to a point where I'm like, you know, I feel like I'm like with that thing with the annualis. I like, you know, I just have to lean on stuff like that sometimes. I'm feeling insecure or whatever. But, but you know, these days it's just like, it's just fun. It's just what a fucking great job. You know what a fun job to have. - Well, we talk about, you know, like right around the time Rubbernet came out, right? And we're talking about the musical waves that came out in the '90s. And Grunge was such an emotional, depressive form of music. And obviously losing so many of those prolific frontmen and so many of those musicians to drugs, alcohol, depression, suicide. The conversation and obviously you've been through all of these different eras in rock music. You bring up mental health. The rock and metal bands right now are leading the conversation and destigmatizing a lot of what I think people in the '90s would have kind of snub their noses at the idea of counseling, the idea of mental health. How different would the world be if those conversations were happening in the '90s when we were losing all of those bands to addiction and suicide. Now you see every single big band. I mean, Metallica took a lot of crap forward in that movie because they got a counselor and now look, they were right. Yeah, totally. Who knows, there might still have a co-bane. We might have all these people. Who knows? It's just, it would be a different world. But it's good to hear that the word is getting out. I talk about it during our shows and my band has been super supportive and that helps a lot. And yeah, it's just been, well, they've been super supportive because they had to put up with like crazy manic shit for so many years and now it's kind of mellid out a little bit. But yeah, it's, I lost my train of thought, but I'm glad that people are getting the word out. That's great. I talked to Rick Emmett from Triumph recently. Those guys broke up for decades, got back together and talked about the work they had to do to be able to put the band back together. The kind of going over the old drama and finding a new place. And we talked a lot about forgiveness. And when you're in a band and you're, you know, talking about being aware of your own struggles, what did you learn about forgiveness? Just as a person going through all of this mental health work and being able to kind of get the totes back to where they are now with a new record coming out because I ask because as a Sicilian and Portuguese person forgiveness is not a gene that I possess. It does not come easily to me. So I ask because I think it's a very important skill. I just really suck at it. I hold a grudge to the death away that I was raised to by my Sicilian family. (laughs) - So Larry, yeah, I'm not, I don't know if anybody's good at it, but I learned a long, not a long time ago, a while back I figured out to try to, it's just carrying shit around, it's just carrying baggage, you know, and why? Why do I want to do that? You know, there's a balance between, like just letting something slide and forgiveness. Like I can forgive somebody but also learn from it and learn not to step in that mess again, you know what I mean? So that's what I try to do. Yeah, as far as the band goes, we've all been like super, like, you know, bands always have dust-ups here and there, but we've always been pretty good about discussing it pretty quickly, like going ahead and taking care of it rather than letting it faster for a couple years. - I always love doing these conferences. conversations where I can see I'm assuming you're at home and this is like your workspace, the gold records on the walls, the guitars. Are those the guitars just to have around the house or are those the prized guitars that are the inspirational instruments you turn to to write songs? Both. This is my studio right here. I've got my speakers up and my mixer over here and more guitars over there. And these are out specifically over here because I'm preparing for this tour. So as soon as I get off here, I'll heat up these amps and I'll heat up the playlist and get to work. You said you started playing guitar at 16 with guitar players. There's always this similar kind of progression. Christine is kind of late actually for a lot of guitar players that pick it up early. So tell me the story of your first guitar who gave it to you and do you still have it? I do not still have it. Oh, I'm so sorry. I know. I bought it at a place in Fort Worth called it was called Bruce Music at the time and it was a second hand Hondo 2 through body like just a ridiculous ugly guitar that I thought was so awesome. I loved it. It was less Paul shape, ish. And yeah, that's what I learned. So coincidentally, I started playing stringed instruments. I played banjo. I played all this other stuff. And then I wanted to go into rock and learn some rock songs. And so I bought a guitar at I think I might have been 15 or 16, but at any rate, I bought it and I started playing and like this is hard. And then I read Eric Clapton was already playing gigs for money at 16 and I just very nearly stopped. I'm way behind the curve on this, man. So I'm not glad I didn't. There's always with a new guitar player, you're trying to play what you hear. What song did you master that gave you the confidence to think you were actually good at it? Like what song, what riff that you finally figured out that you were like, oh, okay, I think I figured this thing out now. Mississippi Queen. Oh, hell yeah. I had a, when I was learning around this time, I was learning bar chords and I've always been a very big fan of Highway to Hell, the very first record that I blew my mind, like hell yeah. And also I knew it pissed my parents off. It was perfect. So I had my Highway to Hell LP and I was learning to play bar chords and rhythm and a buddy of mine was learning to play lead. And we would put on the record and we would learn the song and learn the parts and eventually we would just put the record on and play along with it and like flip it and keep playing. And I learned so much from that. That's, I still that right hand that Rick and Malcolm Young, I got a Malcolm Young guitar over here, but like his right hand is just, there's nothing like it, man, it's just, that's the, that's the root of that music for me. A lot of guitar players talk about obviously AC DC comes up all the time, right? Just because those riffs are so iconic, but you are not the first guitar player to not just shine the light on Angus as the lead, but to shine the light on how important Malcolm was as a rhythm player. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I'm refilling my, when you get here. Yeah. I don't know. So many songs that if you just tune into the rhythm guitar, he's, he's basically doing air quotes the same thing for two and a half, three minutes. But if you really listen to it, it's not. It's nuanced and he's, it is just so cool. It's like so subtle. And this new record that we just did, there's a song that Clark and I wrote together, my guitar player. And we wanted to have this big jammy open section in the middle where it's just, where it's just so sparse. And, and I really tapped into that, that Malcolm, you on the right hand. I just feel so good about it. It was like, man, I wish I could play this for him. You're talking about the Charmer that comes out on May 1st. Yes. And the tour you're talking about is going to bring you to the house of blues in Boston on May 20th. Yes. And there were a lot of totey shows on Lansdown Street in Boston behind the green monster over the years. Does it surprise you? And I want to ask you about Possum Kingdom specifically because you can't work on a rock station. I work on a bunch of them now all over the country and not play that song every day. And it's a song that you don't get sick of as a fan. But I've played the song thousands of times on the radio. I've heard it thousands more. Does it surprise you that that song still is all over the radio? And obviously when you're at the house of blues and you're on tour, that will be part of the set list unless you guys have gone crazy. No, 100%. I mean, I've never wanted to be, I have all respect for bands like Radiohead and like nothing but respect. And as a fan, when I go to see a show, I want to hear songs that I know as well as whatever else they want to play. But I just want to hear these certain songs. And so as a performer, I want to give that to my fans, to our fans. So yeah, we'll play a good chunk of Rebernack. We'll play a big chunk off the Charmer too. And then a few from there with so many songs from it between. But yeah, it's just amazing getting back to your point that that song is hung on for so long. And that's just amazing. I have no clue why or whatever, but it's struck a nerve and that's awesome. A funny story about that is these days I get, we don't tour a ton as you know. Like we, you know, I've got a life and stuff and it's a great job. But I get an email and it'll be from publicist, whoever, publicist. So and so wants to use POS and Kingdom for X number of minutes and unnamed science fiction program on named date and what it's just very loose details with a number at the bottom of you know, pay and whatnot. And like, well, that sounds cool, like science fiction, you know, and it doesn't, it doesn't, it's not a, you know, a political ad for the party I don't care about, care for. So cool. Yeah, let's do it. And then six months later, I'm, or maybe a year later, I'm watching For All Man Kind, one of my favorite TV shows. And my freaking song comes on. I couldn't believe it. And they played the whole damn thing. I just like that's just so, ah, so cool. When it comes to songs like that, right, that make it to that, you know, the industry term is what it makes it into the gold category, meaning there it becomes a song that will just always get played on rock stations forever. I always ask artists where the weirdest place you've bumped into your own music is in an elevator. Like, I don't know if you've noticed this, but the playlists at the supermarket are starting to get really good. They are. Yes. Yeah. Which I know is a symptom of our age. But like that's a perfect example that you're watching a show you love. And you don't even know that what you approved for your own music, because for anybody that doesn't know, those sync licenses, the ability to use your music in television, movies, commercials, you have to sign off on that. And obviously get compensated for it. So the fact that you're sitting at home on your couch watching a show you love and your own song comes on. That's pretty hilarious. Yeah, I totally, you know, it was, it was days later that I, oh, yeah, I'm reciting something a while back. You know, just, I know, so cool. And you know, it's, but there's the, the two sides to that are, I've done music since then, you know, I'm not super prolific, but, ah, but we put out this will be our eighth, I guess studio album. Yeah. And, you know, it's a little frustrating that radio doesn't want to play anything, but that one song, I'll admit that, but by the same token, I'm like, how many people can say they've got that one song? So I just have to have, you know, be at peace with that. And you know, I'd love to have some of the new songs on the radio. And honestly, some of the stations in Texas have picked up a few of the songs. So who knows? But, you know, I'm happy with, happy with my life and that weird little period of time when that song caught on. Well, it definitely, I mean, you talk about the changes in both of our industries since, you know, Robert Net came out since I got on the radio back in the 90s. A lot of those decisions about what got played, got made at the local level. And over the years, those decisions get made by fewer and fewer people. And as the person that's on the microphone, the person that's the one actually talking to the audience, it's, I can look at the structure of the business and see how much it's changed. But what's been really cool is the advent of podcasting where it is another avenue, even though, and I'm hoping it gets there someday, where music licensing allows podcasters to actually put music in our shows. So that, so that I could make like a five hour podcast that's basically my own radio show as a podcast episode. And for them to figure out the financials of how you guys would get compensated for that, because then podcasters would literally be able to make those programming decisions at the organic level, the way that we used to be able to do on the radio all those years ago. I never thought about that aspect of podcasting. It's, it's really interesting. It's been something that podcasters, it's finding the way to compensate the artists, like what is the mechanism and it's the growing pains that, you know, with Napster and all of that kind of stuff, because imagine what the world would be like if I could make a five hour podcast with the full songs that a listener could listen to while they were at work and I picked all the music. I'd be, yeah, yeah. But, but how do we do it? Yeah, that's a good question. And so figuring out that part of the business because it's, it's you guys getting paid, like, which has always been the argument about the Napster is about streaming. There's so many artists that are not happy with the amount of money. Jerry Cantrell said that a stream is like what a thousandth of a cent or something. Crazy like that. Yeah. And so like, unless your Taylor Swift, that just making money off of streaming is not going to pay for your tour bus, which is why I took a lot of crap on the radio back in the day, defending Lars, because I was like, you either buy your music or you're going to pay $50 for T shirts and $150 for concert tickets. And look at what happened. Here we are. Yeah. Yep. So some things that the technology is there. It's just figuring out a way like once podcasters can program their own shows with music. That's my dream. Yeah. That would be great. They would be amazing. Yeah. We talked about the prolific music in the 90s. And I think that music fans in general know Steve Albeni's music, but may or may not know his name. Right. And this new album that you guys are coming out with on May 1st, you did with Steve Albeni before his passing. Yeah. I'm almost immediately prior to. Yeah. And for anybody that's a Nirvana fan, I think arguably that's what he is, I guess most famous for, which they sell. Yeah. Is helping Nirvana follow up. Never mind. So tell me what it was like to work with him as a producer, but also as a person, because I've heard he was like a musical savant that he was just like a mad genius. That's accurate. Yeah. Well, we had wanted to work with him from Jump Street from the first record back in the day. But for whatever reason, I think it was the the the the the the Nirvana thing that really put the label off because he he he made the record and then they like most bands took it to Andy Wallace. And he told us that he actually put in his contract that you can't take my music to any Wallace. That's really the only thing in the contract. But anyway, so we wanted to work with him forever. And we finally we totally self-finance this record. We we were done with labels, we're done with all this other stuff. We're going to build this whole thing from the ground up ourselves. And so we we my wife is an accountant. She we did some tours and she like did the accounting and saved money for us in a totally legit legal way. And it sounds like we cooked the books, but um but at any rate, now we get to the point where hey we get to go and we have him on the we have him on the calendar even. And I went, oh shit, it's Steve Albini and he's on the calendar. It scared the hell out of me. So we happened to have a day off in Chicago. And we arranged for a meet and greet just to go see the studio and have him show us around. And it was within five minutes. I was totally at ease with him. Yes, he was such a cool dude. And he he had him a reputation back in the day for being just just snarky just and just like it. But you know, we were all pretty snarky back in the day, but he was like next level snarky. And so that was kind of scared me, but we at all just like us, he's my load and has kind of changed his mind about a lot of things. And so yeah, he shows around the studio and almost immediately I was like this guy's just a big music nerd and he's really good at his job and he loves it and this is going to be fantastic. And so yeah, we went into that session. We we wanted to do it the way that we had done the first record and the demos prior to that because we were always paying for our own stuff. And we wanted to write these songs. We did pre-production. I have a my wife and I have a rehearsal space here in Fort Worth where bands can keep their gear and everything is really nice or called loop plug. Anyway, so my band we set up at the loop brought a producer friend up from Austin to help us with you know, with his all his recording gear to do pre-production. And we did all this pre-production ourselves and finished writing the songs, got all the structure down, rehearsed them, got into the studio and we did it. It was like largely live. I mean it's all it's every song was cut live. And then you know, we want to patch something here and there. The whole thing is done pretty live. I didn't want to sound like a live album. I wanted to do layers but it's live. It's to tape. There's no computers. There's no logic or whatever music mixing gear. There's no effects that are computerized. It's all analog to the sequence. It was like so cool watching him work all this gear. And just like he's like an octopus just getting all this stuff going at the same time. It was a wonderful experience. It's just so cool working with him. Slash when I had him on the show talked about recording his album live like what you're talking about. And the difference between putting the drummer in a booth and playing the drum tracks until he gets it perfect. And then having the bass player go in and play him like we're talking about putting the totes in a big room and everybody's playing like you're playing a gig but you're recording it all at the same time. And it does affect the sound. It does sound different. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a it is a very special thing. Yeah. We had we did have the drums isolated. All the amps were in one big room with a close mic and then far mic and then Donnie and Clark bass and drum a bass and guitar in there. And then I was in a separate booth for vocals so that I could have vocals be heard. And but still my amp was in there with them. So like all the besides playing together just the smush of all that sound. It's just there's nothing like it. It's just it sounds sounds really cool. It sounds like you're at a live show. We're talking about being at electrical audio in Chicago which was Steve Albini studio. And it comes up all the time about the idea of working with a producer again as a non musician. The idea of like pouring emotion and all of this into songs and then bringing it to an outside person that you are giving the ability to criticize and critique you. Like that that trust even with your own band members that you bring them this idea and they can go. No don't like it or you bring it to a producer that's like well you could do this like that kind of as somebody that's worked in a soundproof booth by myself for like 30 years. The idea of other people going know what you're doing. I don't like that is like so foreign to me but is what you have to do when you're in a band. Yeah yeah well first off well a good producer will will will never react that way. They'll gently guide you to something else. Tyler had it when the studio had this whole other section in the middle of it. It was way. longer than it is now and and I just thought so it is and they very gently Tom and Rob very gently let's just let's just try it and that's what I'm like oh yeah of course that works better but Steve though he did not call himself a producer he called himself an engineer or music recording person or a gallery he put it he didn't want it he never took points he never took producer credit and you know he's just but but he was a producer I always want to make sure when when industry terms come up that for for fans that are listening that might not understand talk about what you just said that he didn't take points on a record because that is such a huge thing because had he taken points on a Nirvana record his whole life would have been a different thing so explain to a fan that doesn't know what that means what that means yeah points as I understand it is a percentage of the record that goes to the producer forever and so yeah that's how these guys make bank is you know producing a song or a record and getting points and and then you know they make money forever off of that record that they produced 30 years ago exactly exactly so yeah so he did not well he didn't want to be a part of that he thought it was a scam and so yeah so he considered himself a music engineer basically he didn't want to as far as I understood he didn't want to have input on arrangements that's where I'll done anyway prior to getting there but that's like I don't want to you know arrangements and at one point I said does this guitar sound pitchy to you because that's that's a you question and you just like you know that's so okay let me go let's do again so uh but uh but he would uh despite all that talk about not being a producer we would do a take and we would start you know you know it takes you a minute to unwrap an unplug and take all this gear off and put it down put power down and then we're talking and then we walk in the control room by the time we do all that he's built a mix and he's built built into this mix little tricks and stuff and it's like that's producer stuff man that's that's cool that's awesome and uh yeah so it's the record reads recorded and mixed by Steve I'll be in you it's like he didn't want to be a producer we've only heard one song so far damage that came out this past Friday when it does come out on May 1st can you give me another example of a song that maybe wouldn't sound the way that it does if it wasn't recorded and mixed by Steve albeini oh man uh that it's hard to nail that down just that drum sound that that is that's just iconic Steve albeini drum sound it's just there's nothing like it and the whole record is you know it just sounds really good so it's hard to nail down one song that might sound different uh he speaking of Steve albeini and his ability to do whatever he wanted to do whatever he wanted to do he was game for whatever and uh there was one song the last song the record that uh that I was like you know we we've been playing this for a while and I'm really hearing it more as a Fleetwood Mac that is uh Steve albeini and he goes oh well shit yeah so he grabbed the drums and put some in another room dampened some down and and gets that 70s like drum sound that like the compressed kickass drum sound and uh he was just game to he just wanted that make us happy and make rock and roll there's a lot of fun he he sounds like a guy that you would just want to sit around and talk about music too for hours oh and you he would be up for that for sure yeah and when the news of his passing came I think that's when a lot of people music fans learned who he was and his impact and legacy on music because of the reaction of the artists at the news of his passing that he was so regarded by the artist we love that I think it made regular music fans that you know might not be able to name producers and engineers and whatever to go wait who was this guy what did he do yeah yeah he was uh yeah uh just a amazing dude just really super talented he was uh he was very excited too he was like he was uh you know certain things that were going on in the world and his family and whatnot he hadn't been able to tour for a while in his band they were going to go out on tour and he was pumped for the future and it was just it's a bummer um I have to ask you some of the questions that I ask everybody that comes on the show and one of the things that always comes up as I mentioned earlier is a my lack of musical ability and my envy of the craft of songwriting the idea that something doesn't exist and then you get inspired by something that I could completely walk by on the street and next thing you know a song exists that didn't exist an hour ago so give me an example of a song for you that you think is perfectly crafted and it doesn't matter the artist the era but it's this isn't like a favorite song question from a from someone that crafts songs yourself what song do you covet and go man that song is perfectly written I wish I wrote it I'm gonna lose cool points but I don't care because I'm holding down it doesn't matter I'm gonna say side A of Boston's first album that how can you lose first of all Boston second of all how can you lose cool points with a Boston reference are you kidding me in my little nature of of Indy Rock that's like not not said but I like I just that's just perfect it's just perfect topped bottom it flows through it's just perfect I so here's a little bit of a funny story so there's one song on the record that I wanted uh I was very specific about and I'm like this this is me being scared talking to Steve Albini scared to say this I said okay we're gonna do this one next one and I wanted to sound like side A of Boston's first record I want this one song to have all that energy and that spirit of that first record and then I held my breath like what Steve Albini gonna say to that and he goes okay so you're gonna want some mid-range guitars and you're gonna want he's already built it his mind and I'm like wait not not so much the tones but just the spirit and the and the grand duor that's what I'm ready he goes oh okay yeah so he starts making sub patches on the board to pile up the vocals and we made this giant choir out of just me doing the stuff and all these guitars and it just explodes and I'm super proud of it because that's what I wanted to do I wanted to emulate what what I think a perfect thing is it's arguably one of the greatest debut albums in all of rock history period yeah record but it does come up I think with when I talk to older artists that came up pre-streaming pre-internet as music fans versus talking to newer artists in the 70s and more in the 80s the music that you listen to defined you it said something about you and so we were very cynical about what music we liked because we knew that it said something about us right so like the patch you put on your gene jacket so when you're talking about the indie rock roots and the cynicism of Boston like I identify with that because I was somebody that was very late to indie rock and like alternative stuff because I was the the metal kid and and it was this thing where it was like almost like you and I can't be friends because we don't like the same kind of music because that's how it was back then yeah and I think in the 50s and the early 60s with singles music wasn't so siloed and I feel like one of the good things about technology and streaming is that it's taken a lot of those silos down where people if you go through you know they're they're wrapped on their Spotify at the end of the year you really do see how diverse people's like listening is and you can go you know like the research origins of yacht rock right now. - Right. - It's like, those songs are brilliant. (laughing) And they were really popular, and then they became the pariah for a while. And people are finally starting to go, no man, the Dubie brothers are badass. Like Christopher Cross is awesome. - Yeah, fuck yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was in the '90s, yacht rock in Boston was just a punch line. That's what I'm talking about, yes? - Yeah, you can't give that any credit, you know what I mean? I, but I like going back, when I worked at the record store prior to getting signed that there was a Rolling Stone that came out, and Led Zeppelin was on the cover. This had been in the late '80s. And it said Led Zeppelin is cool again. Basically, they said something along the lines of Led Zeppelin is cool again, or maybe they were cool all along, or something. And I'm like, who said they weren't cool? When did that stop? - Yeah, I wasn't invited to that meeting. Who made that decision? (laughing) But I do feel like now you hear musicians, you know, when I talk about, you know, the first guitar riff that you mastered, or the album that you discovered that you love. Like the concept of a guilty pleasure doesn't really hold up anymore because it's like, look, I'm a metalhead in a lot of ways. Like I love rock music. I was late to the alternative stuff 'cause I felt like alternative music looked down on the metalheads. Like we were a punch, like we weren't as high-brow, we weren't as cool, so we had to be scrappier to kind of defend our musical choices. But now, oh. - We were just really just scared of you all. - Yeah. (laughing) - But now, you know, you can go back and listen to stuff like air supply, right? And recognize, look, those songs were popular because they were brilliantly written. - Yeah. - Because writing popular, like you tell me, because you're a songwriter and I'm not, writing pop songs is hard. - Oh yeah. - Yeah, I haven't never been able to do it. (laughing) - But the simplicity of it. - Yeah. - The brilliance of it, the simplicity of it, to making it stick, the hook that people remember, and doing it all, and, you know, I don't know what the rule is for a pop song, three minutes and 15 seconds or whatever it is, that's a really hard thing to do and do well. - Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. - Yeah, the first cars album, you know? - Oh, speaking of Prolific Boston Bands. - Oh yeah, I'm sure. (laughing) Not intentionally kissing ass. - Look, Boston's had it share a good, Texas has had a lot of good bands. - Oh yeah. - But Boston has had it share of pretty damn good bands too. - Sure. - You guys are getting ready to go out on the road. You spent a lot of time on the road in the '90s. - Mm-hmm. - There's a lot of open road in the United States alone. The 3 AM truck stop spots. What's the craziest thing you ever bought in a truck stop? - Oh geez. - And there is a mount rush more to this answer, and I'll tell you who's had the best answer after you tell me what your answer is. - I'm drawing a blank, really. - Or what's the snack to you or like, you pull over in the middle of the night, you gotta get fuel and you're like, those people that have never driven cross country don't understand the excitement. How big these truck stops are off the highways in the middle of the United States. What's the thing that you're like, oh, I need that right now, I'm going in. - Oh geez, the middle of the night would be like a chocolatey goodness, just so whatever chocolatey nutty goodness, you know? These days, of course, hell no. I can't eat after dark. (laughing) We eat after dark. (laughing) (laughing) But, oh man, I don't know. I think we had a thing for a while about just ironic trucker hats. And so, you know, FBI, booby inspector, you know, I kind of stuff. Just whatever stupid shit we could find. - Justin Chancellor from Tool told me bought a complete suit of armor. And so far, no one has beat him. - No, you can't close that. (laughing) We had a, we did have a giant pacifier at some point from truck stop. I don't know why, just a giant pacifier. Remember people in the 90s, the pacifiers? - Yes. - So this was a giant one. And our tour manager, if anybody was, was bitching and moaning too much, you would make them wear the pacifier. - Oh man, I think that was an ecstasy rave thing. - Okay, yeah, that makes sense. - Yeah. We obviously recently lost Rob Reiner, shortly after spinal tap two came out. Every band, every artist I know has got like the most spinal tap moment of their career where it's like a weird injury, something on stage. What is your spinal tap moment? - Oh, well, we have gotten lost. So that's happened. - Geez. I guess the most spinal tap would be when we played a Baloxi a few years ago, this big radio festival, and Clark decided, my guitar player decided he would stage dive. And he didn't quite clear the gate. - Oh. - The fence, you know, the retaining wall. And broke two ribs. And so we get back to the hotel. I get a, I'm tired and it's the middle, you know, we stayed out partying and stuff. This was a few years ago and we still did that shit. And so I get back to my room and my tour manager is like Clark broke his ribs. I'm taking him to the EO right now and I went, "Ha ha ha, try me again next time." (laughing) And I tell you what he was not fooling with me. He was correct. And so yeah, it turns out you can't fly when you have broken ribs. So he had to stay there and arrange a road trip home. But yeah, that's right, probably it. And it doesn't embarrass me, so I'm good with that story. (laughing) - And before I let you go, I gotta ask you the Geeser question, but at first I have to explain it. - Okay. - So I had Geeser Butler on the show. And he was talking about wanting to go on vacation with his wife, Gloria, and that they have a hard time being able to do that because they have 13 cats and five dogs. So they have to have people like pets hit for him. And I said, "How the hell do you keep track of 13 cats and five dogs? How do you even come up with names for all of them?" And Geeser Butler from Black Sabbath proceeded to rattle off the fact that they name all of their pets after gangster wrappers. And he started rattling off. He knows more about gangster rap than anybody else I've ever spoken to, which was not an answer I was expecting out of Geeser Butler from Black Sabbath. - Oh. - Yeah. - So now I ask everybody the Geeser question, you have to tell me about your pets and tell me what you named them, but I blame this ridiculous question on Geeser Butler. This is not my fault. - First off, if my wife had her way, we would have all the dogs, just all the dogs. But I've got to firm two dog rule. (laughing) We've put that in place. We have an 80 pound pit bull, I mean, coconut. And 'cause he looks like he just looked like a coconut to me. So he is afraid of everything. He's terrified of plastic bags. He's just like, he's just very scared. And then we have our lockdown dog that we got in 2000 right in the middle of lockdown. And so we named her Fauci, because we thought, nobody will remember this guy's name. And now we can't take you to the dog park because people get mad at us for having a dog named Fauci. (laughing) Well, he's just a dog. So anyway, yeah, those are our two dogs. She is an Amstaff Terrier. She's about 40 pounds. And she'll jump over anything. Oh my God. I've gotten to the point where my pugs have an Instagram page. So I've taken that step into the absurd. And now I have an Instagram page and they get fan mail. And I'm like, if I get to the point after more than 30 years behind a microphone, that my career is managing my dog social media pages, something's a foot. (laughing) - That's awesome. - That is funny, that's funny, man. I, yeah, we do, when we travel, my wife and I travel is often as we can, like internationally. And especially now, try to go away and think clear. But yeah, we have somebody that comes over and now sits and watches the dogs for us. And it really puts us at ease that they're not gonna be with a stranger or whatever. else. So yeah. Where have you traveled that you were surprised you loved as much as you did? Wasn't necessarily surprised. We just last November, we spent three weeks in the South of France and Nice. And it was the low season. So the weather was like not, you know, it wasn't bad weather, but it wasn't summer. And we stayed in Old Town, which is party central whenever it's the summertime, but it was nice and quiet. And we got to, you know, meet our neighbors at the own shops and stuff. And it was magic. It was amazing. I just went to Rome, like the towards the end of last year from my fifth wedding anniversary. And as someone that grew up an Italian around Boston to finally make my first pilgrimage to the old country, I couldn't eat enough. Like I just, like everything just tastes so good. I just, my husband was like, are you okay? And I'm like, oh my god, this tastes so every bite. He was like, are you going to say this is delicious after every single bite you take? And I was like, probably, probably. Probably so. Yeah. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. We love, you know, we love it. Italy, especially. We travel generally we take a big trip in November because my wife is a CPA. As I mentioned, I think. She's not taking time off right now. Yeah. That no, no, she's yeah. But that's generally when you go in Italy and in Europe and in November is man, it's like the weather is just fine. But there's no tourists. We went to Venice and it was empty. And we went to see David and, you know, the statue of David and in Florence. And we were warned, you may be able to get into the room, but you won't be able to see past 300 people. And we walked right up to the velvet rope and looked up at his wini and stuff. That's great. My sister went and I was texting with her and I was like, hey, how's it going? You having a good time? What are you doing? And she just sent me a picture of David's ass. Because that's where she was at that exact moment. And I knew exactly where she was. Like, arguably, arguably one of the most famous asses in all of art. And I was like, okay, I know exactly where you are right now. Okay. Yeah. Well, the new album, The Charmer, comes out May 1st. The totes at the house of blues with local age, the vandaliers and Sparta. That show is May 20th. Tickets are on sale now. I cannot wait to see you guys back on Landstreet and to come and see you guys. Real quick plug. Two second plug. My daughter graduated from Parsons School of Design and whatever it's called now. Last year and I brought her out to Chicago to photograph the band. She majored in photography. So if you buy the record or if you see photos, that's more than likely her photos. No way, really? Yeah. Yeah. Super cool. She had a great job and like caught the vibe and the energy and everything. It looks fantastic. See, she may not be a songwriter, but those artistic jeans. Well, she does that too. Oh, she's a musician too. Yeah, both hands. See, there's something to it. I didn't get any of those jeans. Thank you so much, Rangin' Out With Me. Today, I really appreciate your time. It was so good to catch up today. Yeah. Thank you. And I'll see you at whatever date of the 20th, as always said. May 20th. Yep. Cool. Awesome. Thank you so much. Congratulations on the new album. Thank you. There is Vaden Todd Lewis from The Totes, the new album The Charmer, comes out on May 1st. The band will be out on the road this year with a stop on May 20th in Boston at the House of Blues with local age vandaliers and Sparta. But there is probably a date near you. Just check the links in the show notes of this episode. I've got all the totes links, all the mistress carry links, and there's even a link to this episode's corresponding playlist. I make a playlist for every full length episode of the mistress carry podcast that features all of my guest music and all the artists and songs that we referenced in the interview. If you liked what you heard, don't forget to like, follow, comment, share, and subscribe to the mistress carry podcast. New full length episodes come out every Wednesday plus every weekday you get the sit rep. The situation report gives you all of your rock news, music headlines, and entertainment updates in about five minutes. And you never know when we're going to release a bonus episode. 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