Exploring the Frustrations of College Search and Affordability with Liane Crane

This episode is brought to you by F3 Studios. It's the content and media hub that helps you create podcasts, videos, and social content that build authority, spark relationships, and drive real impact. Ready to launch or level up your content? Head to F3studios.com. That's EF #3 STUDIOS.com. Welcome to Get Down to College Business. We will identify strategies that could make the difference between keeping university doors open and closing them for good. I'm pulling in business experts and higher ed leaders to debate the merits of strategies that could save the future of higher ed. I'm your host, Sarah Hulton, PhD. Let's get down to college business. Hi everyone, this is Sarah Hulton and your host. I'm joined today by Leanne Crane, the owner of the college dollar. Leanne's background includes teaching, nonprofit work, and being a paralegal. After 10 years experience working for a college consulting company, she started her own business to focus on college finances. Her specialty is helping parents early on to truly understand the cost of college and how to pay for it. And she educates recently graduated students to understand their debt and how best to repay it. She's also assisted her three children through the college journey, along with assisting hundreds of clients. And that's all given her first-hand insight into the frustrations faced by students and their families. Welcome, Leanne. Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate that intro. Yes, I can definitely say I've had three of my children in college for about six years at the same time. So I understand college costs for sure. And I think that's kind of what drove me to want to understand more professionally and personally I needed to pay for college. So I'd like to share some insights today. Yeah, your perspective is going to be so valuable. In fact, I actually wanted to title this episode, what students wished college leaders knew about the college search and their financial pain points. Just too long of a title. But Leanne, you have that first-hand knowledge, right? Working with your clients and having gone through this three times with your own children. So I want you to take that knowledge that you have and speak directly to the college leaders in our audience. I want you to share the knowledge that you've picked up from working directly with them. I'm kind of working on the assumption that they're probably very direct with you in their feedback. Whereas college leaders may never receive some of this feedback, right? And so that's how you can help bring that forward for us. So I want to break this conversation into the three main facets of the college journey. So the first one is the transparency of information. The second one is affordability of college and the third one is financial literacy. Great. So let's start with where the students and families start, right? When we think about the college search, parents, students, they're excited. They go, you know, right into this college search process. They look at the websites. I'm sure they talk with other families. Of course they talk with their high school guidance counselors. What are you hearing from them about what's missing or what's unclear when they're in the search process? Yes. I think this might surprise some people, but I can tell you the question I get most often is really the unclear definition of scholarships. So scholarships, you know, I think everybody maybe has their own definition, but you know, you hear from your neighbor, you know, "Sally got a full ride." And you hear from your cousin, Jack got $40,000 from this college. And I think it just perpetuates this understanding of colleges giving money to everybody out there. And we know that most families don't pay sticker price, but what does that scholarship really mean? I think parents confuse need-based aid with merit aid. You know, what are those terms mean? We've never heard them before. What's a private scholarship versus not? And even loans get confused with scholarships or, you know, a discount to the college price. So I think a lot of times when I'm explaining to parents how to afford college, it's really a definition of what does scholarship mean. And I kind of wish colleges could- I know it's difficult because a lot of it is driven by the Department of Ed, but if colleges could do a little better job of explaining grants versus scholarships and where it all falls in that understanding of how am I paying for college, what does it mean? What is the appropriate place to define these terms? Is it the website? Is it more in the financial aid documents that they might receive later? Like how do you educate families and students about these terms? I know there's so many items, media out there, blogs, podcasts, Facebook groups are crazy. The answers I see flying around on Facebook groups about other parents answering these questions. And I feel like the website is probably a good place. I think colleges could do a much better job at explaining things on their website. I know when I'm doing worksheets for my families, I can't even find the cost of attendance until I'm five or six pages deep and room costs will be on one page and board on another page. And I think it's very difficult for parents to even get what it's going to cost for them, much less, you know, am I going to get a scholarship? I think colleges kind of in that vein should also have the net price calculators. I know they're mandatory, I know they're on their sites, but honestly some of them you cannot find. And most, I'd say probably more than half are not updated. I think colleges really should put forth the effort to either update them or use. There's many outside software programs now that I use that are much better than the government calculator. And this would really help parents understand a basic price of what that college is going to cost. All right. So you talked about unclear definition of scholarships. You talked about cost transparency. Is there any other sources of confusion during that initial college search? I think maybe not initially, but kind of overall is the word appeals. So right now with all the financial apex just coming out, I get a lot of phone calls from parents going, can you get me more money from a college? Can you just write me an appeal letter? Which I know there's again so much information out there. There's even templates available. There's not profit organizations geared at this piece. I'm very confusing for parents. I think they can negotiate a price with a college and there could be a little better information on sites. Some colleges have forms, others don't. I know colleges have some of them have a budget, you know, for certain appeal letters and they're on due uncertain dates and other colleges just don't even entertain your request whatsoever. I think it would, you know, be who parents and anybody in this realm of affordability to understand the college's exact nature of appeal letters. So it sounds like in your review of the different colleges, you've seen the whole spectrum. You've seen everything from very highly transparent information available easily, probably mostly on the websites we're talking about. And then you've seen things where you had to dig for it and what happens to your clients when they have to dig for it? Do they get aggravated? Do they give up? Do they move on? Do they say, well, I can't trust those college? If I can't even find out basic information or what's sort of the sentiment that you would like to share with our college audience? Yeah, I think it's kind of the letter what you said, Sarah, is that they do get frustrated and possibly don't put that that college on their list. And, you know, I've had to convince families to keep it on there to apply, see what happens and kind of dug in and help them find the information. I had a financial aid package once that had a $5,000 award on it and I couldn't get clarity on if that award was a grant or a scholarship. So using those terms in the basic form grant being need based and scholarship being merit based. And it took me, you know, quite a few hours of work and going through the hierarchy of a very large university research institution to get an answer from that department that it was need based. And, you know, the parents were just frustrated. They didn't understand and they kind of want to just move on. But so I think things like that, maybe, you know, college admins don't understand that these all affect the parents who then affect the students. You know, should we apply? Should we consider it? Am I going to be able to pay for it when they can't figure out even the simple terminology? Yeah, I think that's important to remember that, you know, when we're in CITER, right, I work for a college and some of these terms are so familiar with us, we forget that to outsiders, the people who are outside this industry, those are new terms. And they might have no meaning or different interpretations of them. And so you almost need like secret shoppers to help you discern because you're so close to the information you honestly forget after a while. All right, I want to stick with this idea of transparency, but I want to shift the conversation to how a college promotes itself. Right. Of course, I think of the website that's a huge marketing tool for colleges, but what about campus visits, tuition, transparency, promotional efforts, and any other pieces of this? Yep. So the tour guides again, I know this used to be a big thing pre-COVID, but I'm still hearing it from parents. that their student is deciding to keep that college on the list or not based on tour guides. So it's one thing I just, you know, again, I've had to convince parents, go back on this tour, really keep the school on your list, try it again. And the website again, another one, there's a college that has right on the front page, $70,000 average scholarship for the student, which, you know, great, everybody's gonna apply. But when you dig and go into the pages and read the asterisks, that's all need-based. So unfortunately, families that not need-based aren't getting $70,000. And again, here's that transparency, and that confusion of parents not understanding that, you know, what is merit aid and why doesn't all colleges give scholarships, you know? So again, I wish I could explain maybe to higher eds that I don't think transparency would hurt the admission rate. I think from the parents that I've spoke with, they really wanna understand how to get their student into that college and affordable. There was a college, a Southern college, actually very prominent Southern college that actually took the time to reach out to all accepted families where there was a gap in funding and said, you know, do you think your student maybe should start at a community college? Do you think that they should work a year before they attend here in order to offset that big peer plus debt they were gonna have to take? None of them took them up on that. I think that just goes to prove parents, you know, and students wanna attend these colleges, they understand the price, they just want to know how to pay for and the best way to go about that. So I don't think being transparent would be as negative maybe as some colleges think it might be. - Let's go back to tour guides. I think where you were going with this was a hint that a tour guide that doesn't satisfy the questions or needs of those on the tour might be turned away from the school, is that what you were hinting at? - Yes, I've had students, you know, I say, how was the tour, it takes a little bit and they'll be like, it was okay. Now, I know weather is a big one too. Honestly, kids give me that, but I will say we don't have any control over that, but the tour guide I guess would be number two. You know, I used to joke I was gonna write a book on what kids used to describe colleges have as because they would say to me, I can't bring my wana so I'm not going there. There's too many Birkenstocks, that's not my style. There's not enough trees. You know, a pair is kind of get upset at this and don't realize that these kids are trying to find their next home. But when they're relating with that tour guide, they're trying to find their people. And if the interaction doesn't go well or, you know, if the people in the back of the group can't hear what they're saying and get answers, all this is that first impression that you can't change. - Right, whether we can't control, but sense of belonging, creating your community and giving the impression that you perspective student will fit in and there's people like you here. That's true. That you can cultivate intentionally. What about the little things they do? What about where they go on campus or how they talk about the campus? Does that matter? - Yes, I remember actually taking my son and I know a lot of kids kind of have their thing. What's important to them on campus? What's making them help decide? And my son, my oldest was libraries. He had to visit every library, you know, of the college tours we did. And of course, I dragged him on a lot 'cause this is my profession for kids. And we got to, I would say two, probably out of the first 13 we visited, the library was not on the visit at all. We would walk by it and they'd say, that's the library. And that was, you know, for him, that just was kind of a donor in that way. So not that you can go into every building and not that every college tour has to be, you know, STEM kids here and liberal arts kids here. But I think overall there should be a little more emphasis on trying to make everybody feel like they fit in and you know, whether it's so ignoring the weather and going to the gym or going to that library, dressing uniformly. Just odd things we don't think about that these kids for the first time are using to make their decisions. You've been mentioning financial aid terms and you know, transparency related to that. Let's dig down a little bit on that because financial aid transparency really should be a no-brainer. But some colleges just struggle to communicate it in a way that can be understood easily by mass audiences and their decisions. Can you walk us through the confusing or misaligned pieces of, especially like award letters? I know I've seen award letters that I cannot make sense of. I'm reading them like I should know all of this and I cannot figure out how much the student is being asked to pay. Like really, it's, they're very confusing. So award letters, maybe the timing, specialized terms and any other definitions you can think of that would be helpful for college leaders to recognize how confusing it is. - Yeah, I think the timing, I would have to say, is probably a bit out of their control, facts are related, you know, under staffing in these financial aid departments to try and get out these numerous award letters. But, you know, April, even late March is really late for families to gather all this information and make a decision. And I think that's one of the reasons these early action, early decision dates have just been flooded. Kids just want to know sooner than later all these acceptances and the money piece. I think, you know, with the myriad of financial aid package formats out there, I know there's groups trying to get one form for every school. Back in 2018, there was a study by New America, they took an 11,000 different financial aid packages and called them into different formats and found, you know, there were 26, I believe it was about 26 different ways that colleges deliberately did not say the word loan. And I've had arguments and discussions with parents who really thought they owed nothing to a college only to find that there were loans, you know, built in there that they didn't understand. I even had one family who somehow there was a parent plus loan that he never knew he signed. So I think, again, that transparency, which is such a buzzword, but I really think that there should be a lot more onus on the college to own the costs, own what parents need to pay and just be upfront about it. I don't think it will be as negative as maybe they think. - All right, so let's turn now and talk a bit about affordability itself, right? We're talking about financial aid, what is it gonna cost? Affording college is often a family affair, right? A lot of times families are financially invested in a student attending college. What do you think colleges can do to help around college affordability? Maybe beyond what they're already doing, which is a lot. - Yes, they are. And definitely I've seen increases over my 15 years of what they're doing. I think one of the things I really think would help would be some financial literacy. I think a required class by college students, even if it was just the ones taking student loans, but I think all students would benefit from this. I think it should be a required class. The financial literacy sort of speak that the students do before they take loans. I don't know, I think maybe it helps the government sleep at night, but it really kids just click through it, have no idea what they've just read, and have no idea what to do when they graduate with those loans. Because I work with that end of it too, so many students don't know that there's payment plans and different things you can do. They don't even know how to log in and find their total. - Well, they're not checking their emails. I will say that. If the information is being sent via email, they will not see it. - Right, right. If the government could text them, it would be all good. But yes. So I mean, they just delete them. My kids send them to me. Do I need this? Do I need this? I'm like, you're an adult. Can we read through our email? And, but you know, that's not how it is. So I do think that if a college is gonna accept federal funding, they really should take some of the own as to educate that the students that are taking on this debt to attend their institution. I think another thing would be also, as we mentioned before, updating the net price calculator. And it's really, you know, when we see 3, 2, 3, 4, 5 years old, that's just not helping anybody. I know it's kind of a thorn in their side, just another thing, but, you know, I do think these little things could help with the affordability and kind of remove that negative stigma attached to colleges being not transparent. - Well, it sounds like you're also talking about financial literacy too, right? Not just making it affordable, which they already do, right? Endowments and need-based aid and all of that. Anything else you can think of in terms of the financial literacy, but can colleges do anything more than they already are? - Well, you know, I think one of the things too, is that I'm in the board of an organization, National College of Affordability Group. So we are IECs and CPAs and CFPs and all these people who really are concerned about the affordability of college and making sure families understand it, you know, as soon as they start searching, if not before. And what happens, I think, is when you have financial aid and employees who are bound by those department of ed, rules and regulations, and you have high school counselors, you know, who can't or shouldn't ask kids for their parents 1040. You know, there's experts like us who really are trying to help parents and it's not to sway them from one school or another. It's really just educating them on these terms. Is it affordable for you? If you're gonna take out that debt, how are you repaying it? So I think schools could be, look into using people like this to help them. Like that one school did. Reaching out to parents and saying, look, we know there's this gap. Here's how we're gonna help you and offer resources to them. - Do you have any examples of colleges that are doing some of these things well in terms of transparency, affordability, literacy that you've come across, any models we could look to? - There is an organization, I believe it's a CCTI, I have to look, so it's a whole organization based on college transparency. And I believe right now there's about 600 plus schools listed on there. They have committed to being transparent and going through this. So I think if other colleges, we could get all of them on board with this and the college that has 70,000 scholarship available to freshmen, you know, kind of got on board with that transparency 'cause it's just not. It's just not helping parents, it's not helping students to understand that they can afford that school. That's just not, you know, that to me is a little deceptive. - Leanne, as we're wrapping up today, can you share your bus takeaways for college leaders, could be related to transparency, affordability, or financial literacy? - Sure, I think I mentioned to this to you that day. Sarah, I wanted to be employed by colleges to review their websites. That's one of my pet peeves. So I think seriously taking the time to understand your website in view of a parent, not just splashing on the front page, your scholarships and your STEM research. You know, parents are there for one reason, students are there for another. And, you know, students are gonna be on their phone, they get your postcards. You know, they're looking at schools in a whole different life than parents and affordability. And I don't think websites are designed to be helpful to parents in that manner. - Well, I think that's a really good takeaway is who is your primary audience? You know, if you're using your website as a marketing tool, which of course they do, who is actually your primary audience? So I think that's a great takeaway. Leanne, thank you so much for being here today. I'm sure some listeners will want to learn more about you in your work. So I've got your LinkedIn and your website included in our show notes. Thank you so much. - Thanks, and I appreciate it. - To support the cause of the affordable college experience, visit us at highlevelleadership.com. Read our blog and join our email list to get connected. Follow us and leave a positive review on your favorite podcast app. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)