Welcome to the Mid-Korea Change podcast. I'm Mark Crossfield, a professional career coach. Here to help you turn mid-Korea uncertainty into an exciting journey of self-discovery and reinvention. Where you're feeling stuck, seeking new opportunities or ready to inject more meaning into your work, this podcast is your roadmap to transform into your career. For episode show notes, visit bravocoaching.co.uk/podcast. Now, let's get started with today's episode. Hello and welcome to episode 138 of the podcast. In today's episode I'm joined by Michael Tabirardi. Michael proves the work in a public sector leadership role working on large-scale transformation programs across health and government before making the move into more independent portfolio style work. In our conversation we talk about what's really like to step away from big roles, the identity shift that often comes with that, and how people in mid-Korea can start exploring more independent ways of working without rushing or burning out. This is going to be about change, confidence, and building a work in life that evolves with you. So that's me, Michael Tabirardi. I, Michael, welcome to the podcast. Hi there, Mark. How's it going? All good? Yeah, very good. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today. Maybe to set the scene, could you share a bit about your background and what led you from public sector leadership into independent work? Yeah, so I started off in the public sector, namely within the NHS, and the reason I started in the NHS is because I had this dream of becoming a doctor one day, and so I thought this, I had this elaborate idea of trying to liaise, I guess the clinical knowledge that I was developing alongside the managerial knowledge. But then, amongst many different types of work experience, I just realised actually, I don't really want to worry about the clinical, I want to focus on the managerial, and so I started off professionally doing commissioning. That was my main sort of start into the space, and I did that for five years in NHS England. And then after that, I moved to the digital space because during my commissioning years, I did a lot of digital transformation work, and so I was responsible for the digital implementation of the child health information systems across England. But that still wasn't enough, and actually the experience that I felt there in terms of how leadership and management, let's say, managed the culture, helped to really accelerate and push my decision into contracting and freelance consulting as well. And so it was 2021 or two, I want to say, is when I started working in the contracting space, and of course, as you know, already COVID happened, you know, and especially being in the healthcare sector within the public space, lots was going on. And so, yeah, I transitioned around many different spaces such as UKHSA, the Department of Health and Social Care, in addition to natural England, and then my current tender is at Wessex, where I'm working on a secure data environment platform. Okay, yeah, so you're independent now, but what was it like when you did move away from that senior public sector role? What was that sort of, what was going on when that happened? Yeah, so what pushed it was the fact that, well, let me give you the exact moment in time. So I had just moved from five years commissioning into this new space where I felt it was going to be innovative and collaborative matrix working agile learning all these new skills, which I did, and I will never take that away. However, unfortunately, because of the very broken nature of the management system that was set up there, it meant that I didn't necessarily get the development that I needed or the support that I needed from a leadership standpoint. So what we had was, we had a head of the department, so to speak, and then we had the senior managers, which I was included as part of, as well as others as well. And that person was as good as they could be based on the information that they were given from their executive team, because the executive team was all over the place. They didn't really know what they were doing. And to give you some context and the, the listness and context, we had a circular commissioning setup. In other words, as a commissioner, you are supposed to understand and know exactly what you want to procure a commission to a provider. But what was happening is the technologist, the specialist, the tech companies, what almost telling us what we need to do for them. So there was a lot of that going on. And so that was one part of it. A second part of it was the fact that part of the program management team were inexperienced consultants. And so what ended up happening was I was dragging myself into situations where I was having a lot of back and forth with this leadership team, not my style, but I'm also not afraid to say what's on my mind if need be. And so that relationship became very toxic. And actually it created a very isolated feeling, very isolated feeling. And I could only lean on my colleague who was in the same situation as well. You know, one day I would not feel myself, another day she would not feel herself, but we would support each other. And actually amongst doing some change management training and program management training, I realized how fractured this system and environment was. And so for at least nine months of that 12 month for still, I was like, I should not be here. And it was pushing me and forcing me to think about, what do I do? What do I do? Like, do I stay here? Do I go? Like, what do I do? And it was early until I met somebody who was a contractor on a project I was running on. We're still very good friends today. And I asked her, I'd love to know how did you get into contracting? And I was nervous to do it because when I asked somebody like four years before that, they just ignored me. And she said certainly, she told me like who to speak to. She introduced me to four people. She said, do this, this, this, that, this is the day where you should be looking at. And I just soaked all up. And so, you know, some people would assume that that transition from permanent work to betting on yourself was anxiety driven, but in a weird way, it wasn't because I was so fed up. Yeah, go ahead. So you're feeling the pain of that situation that broke in system that wasn't working. But it's one thing to have that we still need to know what's next. And you had that person that came into your life that gave you some idea of what that could look like. But you were still letting go of the titles, the status, the structure. So how did that feel? Letting go of those established identity points and moving towards something which is more about, you know, an independent role. So, for the honest of you, I guess I'll be very honest with you. I was led by how I felt and how I felt was extremely positive towards the future. I don't know why though. I can't tell you why because, you know, I would like to think of quite logical. I like to go based on evidence of fact. But this was a time where because I was so burnt out from the fact that it didn't feel aligned in terms of culture, I just knew there had to be something better. And the, I guess the evidence to that was the fact that I spoke to this contracting colleague and friend. I spoke to accountants who gave me a good idea in terms of what to be thinking about. I spoke to recruiters who told me what the market looks like as well. And actually gave me some sense of confidence that I was able to transition into these sorts of things. The thing that I needed to battle though was convincing myself that I was this title, you know, whether that was a program manager or this or that independently of of anything else, you know, and that was to come. And so I would say positive, but there was an identity crisis. And I think for a while to be fair that I have to manage, you know, I'll never forget again, good friends with this lady as well. Started a contract with my friend who wasn't my friend at the time. And we used to always say like, when is the gig up? You know, like, are we going to find another contract? You were always thinking about what's next and that's all the challenges, isn't it? It's interesting that you mentioned that you actually felt positive actually at the points where you made that shift. And that's really important for listeners to hear that once you realize that what you work in isn't going to be for you and you want that change and you do then have some idea of what the future might look like, I think positivity is a common feeling because people realize that for once they can move towards something that's going to be really enjoyable, you know, they've been doing, spent years working in this role, they're not enjoying. And for once, there's a feeling that all these things that I want to express through my work and how I want to live and what sort of career I want around that starts become much more promising in that point. So the optimism isn't a surprise for me, but for people that are making that shift, they can't always see that until they've got an idea of what that future can look like and for you that it will speak to that person, wasn't it? One hundred percent, one hundred percent, you know, I mean, again, for your listeners, if they are thinking about a similar transition, of course, everyone's journey's different, you know, people make the difference whether we like it or not. You know, you have to reach out and speak to people and sometimes we don't appreciate, recognize or respect the fact that there may be people in on that work that may be able to give us that information. And even if they're not in on that work, if we really about what we say we want to be about, then we have to reach out to people because in essence, they are your mentors, you know, a mentor really being the person who has the experience to guide you down a specific path, you know. And so you're right. And I think the types of people I spoke to really important, because if we think about it, they're kind of in certain categories, you've got the experience contractor. So that's one category of person. Then you've got the person dealing with the money, the the accountant. So because I guess you're trying to plan to see, okay, do I like pay for the accountant like on day one or is it on day 30? What does that mean in terms of when I get paid? Oh, I get paid two weeks in a row. Okay, that should cover it. Okay, cool. So that's another thing. And then you've got the recruiter, the person who can help you go on opportunities. Again, this is in a very conservative contracting sort of setup as opposed to a freelance consultant, which is slightly different. And so, yeah, people make the difference for sure. Absolutely. I always say that you can't think your way into a new career. You have to take action. One of those actions is connecting with people, talking to people, imagining what the future might look like through taking small steps in action. So you really, you really spot on with that one. When you look back, other things that you wish you'd known earlier about this shift? If I'm honest with you, I think I was perfectly primed to transition. And what gives me confidence to say that is because I had at least 10 years experience under my bill. I had at least two vocational qualifications that worked in my favour, programme management and the change management. We were under a situation where there was national change required. And also, I mean, the healthcare sector, as we know already, healthcare gets the biggest budget of all public sector organisations. I say this to say to answer your question that I was going to say, I wish I did this earlier. But then I questioned whether I would have had the same effects. I mean, if there was the perfect scenario, I would have, you know, got my training and development in the public sector, where it's really hard to work my way up. And think about contracting earlier, much earlier. For sure. Because I am a person who is driven by this sense of freedom, like most people are. And although you don't get complete freedoms, there is, there is more freedoms that you can exercise, especially if you are outside of via 35, if your audience know what that is. And if not, I'm happy to explain that. Yeah, I mean, it's a UK thing, essentially, it's a tax thing, which we probably don't need to go into. It's another thing really that is a consideration. And I would say one of the things I, when I look back and think about what I wish I'd known, I think that a lot of these things you can figure out as you go along, but you don't actually have to know all the answers at the start. You just need to know the direction you're interested in exploring, the support network to help you to make those steps. And the mindset, really, that, you know, you can figure these things out. And it's not forever, whatever happens, whatever changes you make. If it doesn't land exactly as you like, you can make slight changes to the course. And, you know, it can still be made right anyway. So it's not a very, it's not a binary situation you're in. Either you succeed or you fail quite often. There's a few changes that you go along. But rarely in terms of the people I speak to, do I hear people say, I wish I'd not made the move because it wasn't a good move for me. Most people say, I wish I'd done it earlier or it was the great move at the time. And it, more often than not, it's the inertia that's holding us back. And we can see that the future could look different if we take those steps and feel our way into this. Then the opportunities are right there, aren't they? 100%. I love what you said there. And actually, as you were speaking, it's really pain that pushed me to take action. You know, a sense of suffering that held me to account and make a decision, you know. And I guess in that moment, it was centered around this side of the road. If I truly am who I say I am, I'll do this. If I truly want what I want, I will do this. And no regrets, seriously, because what came after that was a whole bunch of, I'm going to say superficial things that have ticked off my list, so to speak, but would not have been possible if I didn't have that decision that was relying on that pain, you know. Now, I'm not saying pain equals success necessarily. That is one way of doing it. Of course, there is wisdom in hindsight isn't there. So yeah. Yeah, I mean, coffin pain is the universe telling you something needs to change whatever that might be. It just always means you need to move with organization. It might mean you need to, you know, have a word with your manager and your organization or rethink your role or many things it can mean. But, you know, in this context, it really means actually knows a time to look for something different and that pain really is a multi-basing force isn't it. Then yeah, I like to, you started to talk about sort of mindset shifts as well there. And just tell me a little bit more about what mindset shifts you think are needed to make a change that like you've done. Yeah, it's, that's a great question. So when I think of mindset, I understand it to be the established set of attitudes that one has. So I needed to think about what attitudes, what was I presenting in my behaviors. And actually, the attitudes I was presenting was I have security in a nine to five. There's also something centered around. Like you said before, my professional titles and progression and what that looks like on my CV. And that actually, you know, keep risk as low as possible. But it's about how you look at risk. I think that's the mindset shift. And really, it centered around betting on yourself. That was the biggest shift. You have to bet on yourself. You have to be your own financier. You have to be your own tax person. You have to be your own marketer. You have to be your own deliverer of whatever project or program you're working on. And so when you move away from the mindset of relying on a traditional system to a system that you are cultivating and creating yourself, it's different. And so this is why I speak a lot about the portfolio career. Don't focus on following your career. Focus on creating your career so that you can flourish and create a level of independence. Because if you learn to bet yourself, then you create way more opportunities that were not open to you prior to you relying on a system or tradition that you're relying on before. And so that's a big one. Another thing to align to that is the fact that you know, it's like you have to take action like you said. You have to. If I just sit down and moat about the fact that I haven't got a contract or I haven't got a coaching client or, you know, haven't got this opportunity, nothing's going to change. And so there is a pipeline. There's a certain level of activity and consistency that you need to maintain day in and day out regardless of how you feel. As Susan Jeffer says, feel the fear and do it anyway. It's to do it anyway, that is so crucial because what I've observed and recognized from people is that the fact that they've been knocking at the door for weeks, months and years, someone happens to open that door eventually and they are present. Not all the other people who are there before is the people who are consistent. And so that's another thing that I've had to bring into the space in terms of what mindset shifts do I need to have. And I think another, a final one, because there's plenty I could probably think about a final one is just accepting that it's not going to be perfect. It really isn't, you know. And what I mean by that is you won't always find contracts. You won't always get on rosy with people. You're not always going to have the simple project and all of that kind, like it's not going to be like that. And so you have to be, I talk about something known as the consultant mindset, which is essentially using problem solving skills and strategic thinking in order to solve a unique problem for a group of people utilizing those things of highlighted as well as consulting practices, frameworks and methodologies. It's using everything in your arsenal essentially to solve the problem. UI problem solvers as my old manager, and then it's just used to say a solution finder. So yeah, yeah, I like it. And problem solving as a skill is what, you know, one of the most important transferable skills in any job, isn't it? If you can solve problems for people, you're always going to be in work and you'll get, if you do a good job, you'll get paid well. You mentioned Susan Jeff is there and I like the the quote and that's the one most people remember. But Susan Jeff is in that book also talks about how there are no wrong decisions really in terms of quite often you think that, you know, is it a or b, a, might be right in my, might not be right. But actually she says that whatever decision you take, you're going to learn something from that decision. So even if you take a decision to, you know, leave your role and and try something different, you're going to, it's still going to the right decision for you. Whatever happens at the end because you're going to learn some new new stuff about yourself and you're going to figure out what's next for you and things might go really smoothly or there might be few like changes to get on the path that is perfect for you. But the point is that it's not a binary situation actually. So, you know, people are looking at that book, look at that bit of the book as well because that is one of my favourite parts. That's a really good point. And as you said that, it brings me back to a quote I discerned for myself a couple of years back, the states that there are no real rules. But there are consequences, you know, and so thinking about that, going back from the learning part, you spoke about your 100% correct, correct, sorry, Susan is correct. And I start to think about intelligence, which is the ability to adapt given a specific type of situation that repeats itself or changes, et cetera, et cetera. And so it's what you take from it, you know, that element of adaptation and moving forward, almost like a missile. So, which is a weird analogy, but missiles basically change direction based on the inferences that it gets from its environment. And that's how it knows how to move and go towards the target. So same thing, same thing is the intelligence element that we can we can go on from my experiences. Absolutely. You mentioned the portfolio work. And I'm interested to know what you think of that for mid-career professionals, whether you think that is a good call or not. Great question. So, I think portfolio career is for everyone and is the new de facto model, you know, because it can be defined in so many ways. Now, you know, for mid-career professionals, they may be thinking, can I do my nine to five and can I do a contract at the same time? It is possible, but that's difficult to do. And so this really comes down to life, that style design, you know, what is it that you are optimizing for and prioritizing as a goal in your life? Be really clear about, what does your current situation tell you? And what does that mean in terms of what you want? So, what do you like? What don't you like? What do you want to change? Very atomic habits. Esk from James Clear. So, yes, mid-career professionals can do a portfolio career, but it may look different to what mine and yours will look like. I mean, when I was a mid-career professional, my portfolio career looks like working in the NHS, but also coaching people in terms of personal brand. In addition to doing, I was a healthcare leadership facilitator for graduates, so that was another thing that I was doing. I did a bit of, it wasn't quite trusty work, but it was similar to some sort of governance work as well. And so I did all of that with the strategy and aim to build skills so that I can transform my portfolio career again. So now it looks like a key, consulting work, coaching trustee, as well as the other stuff here and there. So I think it's better to start sooner than later. So you can start to flex the idea of what a potential portfolio career looks like because you start to learn what ownership looks like and what work is actually required for what you say you want you say. And if it's not for you, then it's not for you, that's fine. You've gone down that path, but if it is, then you can attack it, you can go through it. Yeah, you've got a lot going on there. How do you stop that from feeling messy or overwhelming, because your answer might help people that are thinking of a portfolio career who might be thinking actually that's going to get a bit complicated. So how do you manage all these things you do? That's a very great question. So I have a model, okay. It's called the 9Cs of a portfolio career. The first part is the most important. And so the first part is broken down into these three C's, context, contract, and cash. And so context is really defining what my life is saying and what do I want. So everything I've just said before, the contract bit is applicable to everybody. Whether it is a formal contract, an informal contract, we all have a contract to some degree. And you need to decide what is that main contract that you're going to be focused on that brings in the money. For me at the moment, it is my consulting work. That's what brings in 75% of my money. Before, it was the work that I did within the NHS and permanent 9 to 5. So it's perfectly fine what that looks like. And then the final bit is cash. And so that is just making sure that you have a clear idea of how you make your money, which is the second bit, how you protect your money. So maybe that's looking at insurance and all that kind of stuff. And how you maintain it. So budgeting, spend, controls, all that stuff. And so you set that third bit up by maybe having accountability sessions with yourself, maybe meeting with your partner regularly on a monthly basis or quarterly basis, whatever makes sense for you. For me, those three things are non-negotiable because it sets the foundation. However, you start to move into a space where I call it the growth phase where you start thinking about things maybe around content, coaching and community. But it's not as unilateral as people may think because content may be presenting yourself at an event as opposed to posting on LinkedIn as an example. It's more about how you present yourself. The coaching bit could be advisory or mentoring of some sort. And the community isn't necessarily oh, I have a paid or private community. It is more the experience that you cultivate through the stuff that you're doing. I don't need to talk about the last part, but to answer your question, I split up my day into the foundational bit, the growth bit, and why call the learning bit. And so in the morning, what I aim to do is I essentially get myself up to speed in terms of the learning bit, just so I have some stuff done. The majority of the day, so I'd say like main morning to like five, six o'clock, that is focused on the contracting bit. And then for the last three hours or so, that will likely be focused on the growth bit. So I've split it out in my calendar. Now, do I follow it perfectly? Of course I don't. Of course I don't. However, it does bring me back because once I see that calendar reminder, I'm like, okay, I should be finishing this up now. Why should be focusing on this? So it reminds me consistently another way I do it is tell my partner. She knows exactly what I'm doing. And so she holds me to account. She'll be like, you shouldn't really be doing that. And I do the same for her. So we go back and forth. And in addition to that, I also like to have accountability by these some partners, you know. I did have a coach before, but I've retired from using a coach. And so I use accountability. I've always used that as an approach. So it's a combination of designing my system around my values, what's really important to me, but also designing it around people that I trust and who are moving in a certain direction. And if anything gets too crazy, I just take a break or I clap off completely, you know, because I have been subject to burnout before. And it has been an opportunity for me to say, Mike, you're doing way too much slow down to stop. So yeah, and one final thing to add, it's less about the work that I'm doing and more about the activity on, I would say humiliation, social media, emails, yeah, there's no social media on my phone anymore. It's only on my laptop. So definitely a good move, actually. And yeah, so this listeners, if you like the content you're hearing, Michael does have his own YouTube channel, which is great. Actually, I've been watching quite a few of your episodes there. And can you just say a little bit about what you do share on your YouTube channel and maybe how that's going? Yeah. So essentially, YouTube channels for ambitious professionals who are wanting to build a flourishing portfolio career and a flourishing independent portfolio career. And so the topics that I talk about is how do you transition into contracting? What does freelance consulting look like? How do you build a portfolio career? What does that feel like? And then there are sort of like sub-topics centered around personal branding, leadership situations that you may need to cultivate or develop. In addition to money as well, that's always an important conversation. So these are some of the things that I'm talking about. Yeah, it's going not too bad. I guess for me, like at the beginning of this year, I did a bit of a content challenge. I did 90 days of YouTube videos from February to May. And my channel grew by quite a bit. Not crazy numbers, but much more than it was before. And it comes back to what I was saying before about consistency. So that's been good to see. So if anyone's interested, feel free to check it out. Yeah, and I'll put a link in the show notes. And if people want to connect with you, what's the best way to do that? So I would say most people connect with me on LinkedIn. So I can get to you on LinkedIn there, where I also share content. And also if you want to stay up to date with, again, any guidance notes that I have, I also have a newsletter that people can check out as well, which they can find on LinkedIn or I can provide some mark as well. That's super. Yeah, just one last question then. So for anyone listening who's thinking about moving towards more independent work, what are some simple first steps they can take? So the first, I'd say, is taking inventory of what's happening in your life right now? That's the first thing. Be really clear and honest and answer those three questions. What's worked well? What's not working well? The second thing you should do is based on what you want to change, speak to people who are embodying or doing a thing that you want to do. And if you can't speak to anyone, go on the YouTube, read the books, go to the event, just be proactive. And I guess the final thing is to, you don't have to necessarily over plan, but take action. Take action, you know, grab it, go for it, and that can only be done based on telling yourself that you can and you will and you must so bear on yourself. So yeah, those are three simple steps that I think people can take. I love it. Michael, thank you so much for coming along to talk to me this morning. I really appreciate you doing that. Thank you, Mark, for the invitation. I really appreciate it also. So that was my conversation with Michael Tabiradi. What's the thought for me in Michael's story? What's the way independence doesn't have to mean rushing, burning bridges or having everything figured out? It can start with some more experiments, clear choices, and a bit more trust in experience you already have. Sometimes the most helpful next step is simply nosing what's beginning to feel important for you and giving yourself permission to explore and then to take those first few steps. So thanks to get to Michael for such a thoughtful conversation and thank you for listening. And I'll see you in the next episode. Bye for now. Thanks for listening today. I hope you've gained some Bible insights so you'll never get your mid-career journey. Enjoy what you do each day and build a fulfilling and successful next chapter. Don't forget to check out previous episodes and the show notes at bravocoaching.co.uk/podcast. If you're wondering what's next for your career, don't love my free guide. Should I stay or should I go at bravocoaching.co.uk/go? And feel free to connect with me at
[email protected] or you can catch me on LinkedIn. See you next time.
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