Explaining OKC’s Lu Dort Trade To The Hawks: Watch Out For Atlanta? + Summer Extensions You Need To Be Watching

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And as I said, somewhere around Oklahoma City, that trade broke midair. But I am home, somewhat well rested. All right. Joining us from New York, where did you have to go to the Fanatics Fest, Vince Goodwill? Absolutely not. What up, though, Wendy? What up, though, Bobby? I was not going to that zoo under any circumstances. No. All right, Bobby. There was a significant trade in the NBA on Sunday. Three-team trade between Dallas, Oklahoma City, and Atlanta. Primarily, Lou Dort is now an Atlanta Hawk. The deal went, it's already finalized. It went straight to, they had the trade call on Sunday. I didn't know that the NBA lawyers were still working Sundays in mid-July, but I guess so. Well, they changed that rule. It used to be like, you'd have to wait till Monday, and then there was a hiccup along the way a few years ago, and now it's like you're on call. As long as you get them the information in time, they'll come to work on Sunday. Yeah, I remember, Vince, I remember when I was early in the league, Paul Silas wanted to trade. He wanted Ricky Davis traded away from LeBron. Should we make this SoFi? Get your money right, Jackson. Our story time. It's early, early in the week to be dragging out SoFi. Have I told this story before, Jackson? I'm very worried about retelling stories. My dad used to do it, and Bon Temps and McMahon make fun of me for it. And so, anyway, for LeBron's rookie, Paul Silas wanted Ricky Davis traded in the worst way. And so they got to like early December, and they had a trade worked out between Boston and Cleveland to trade Ricky Davis to Boston. And the lawyers at the league said, okay, we will do it after lunch, Bobby. They went on their lunch break, and so Silas like paced around. The team was in Indianapolis. And Silas paced around. He paced around the hotel room waiting for the call that the league lawyers were back from lunch so that they could do the Ricky Davis trade and he could get him on the plane. He wanted him on the plane and out of Indianapolis as fast as possible. The late, great Paul Silas, which is another thing that reminds me of another story, the famous story about Ted Stepien. Vinny, do you know the Ted Stepien story with the- With the Dallas Mavericks? I don't think I know this one. Way off the, Bobby, do you know the story? I don't. I just know there's a rule named after him, so. Yes. So the reason the Stepien rule is in existence, and the reason they call it the Stepien rule is because I believe that the Cavs traded their first round pick to the Mavericks in four consecutive drafts. I think that's correct. That's correct. And by the way, in different trades, it wasn't like they did it and they did one trade for like three firsts. Like there was, it was like they kept calling them and they kept trading them picks. I think it was like from 1980 to 83, they traded four first round picks to Dallas. And, you know, this is back before cell phones or whatever. And so Dick Mata, who was the coach and GM, Bobby, I think. Yeah. Of the Mavericks at the time. He had this classic line where he was like, oh, I'm going to do this. Where he said he was afraid to ever leave his office to go to lunch because he might miss a call from Ted Stepien. But anyway, you can do a trade on a Sunday night in 2026. That's my point. And this trade got done. So, Lou Dort goes to Atlanta. Atlanta has now acquired a pretty decent set of perimeter players. Now, they're, you know, between C.J. McCollum and Dyson Daniels and Alexander Nakia Walker, Lou Dort. That's built up. We'll talk about Atlanta in a few minutes. Right now, Bobby, I want to talk about Oklahoma City and why they did this deal. Well, I mean, I think certainly financially. I mean, I think that's the top of the line here where you look at where Oklahoma City was. They were a second apron team. I always thought, Brian and Vince, that once they, they exercised the Dort option before free agency, that that contract was going to be traded. I never thought it was going to be extended. And I never thought they were going to play out the year and let them become a free agent. So, when you look at it financially, get some under the second apron. Yes, it gets them. I think they've gotten seven seconds in the three trades they've done. They've created some trade exceptions. I think you look at it, they basically had a decision when they wanted to be in the second apron. Do you want to be in it this year? Or do you want to be in it potentially next year when Case and Wallace, who's Ricky Extension eligible now, will hit the books and that will certainly push them over? But when you look at where they were on June 15th, their projected payroll was close to $560 million. Where they are right now, it's $234 million. Okay? So, that's what? $230 million? No, it's like $340 million. Oh, my God. $320. Roughly $320. Without touching their three players, Chet, Shea, Jalen, having their bench depth still intact with McCain, Caruso, and Mitchell, and you brought back Kenrick Williams, you still have J-A-Y, Jalen Williams, and you've got the rookies that you drafted. So, as we've learned in this apron era, the apron forces you to pick. Okay? The apron forces you to pick on what is priority and what is a luxury. And I will not say that Lou Dort was a luxury. He certainly played a big part. But when you look at their roster, you know, eventually he was going to become a luxury as far as to keep. Don't forget, not this coming season, but next season, Shea's contract takes a huge jump to $60 million. You got to figure that, like, that's just an existing player. Not saying that, you know, Shea's the MVP and everything else. Not saying anything, you know, against that. But just, you have to do long-term projections even before you're actually, you know, ready to. And maybe you look at how Lou Dort played in the Western Conference Finals and how he played in the playoffs the past couple years, or at least how he shot. And you're like, okay, maybe he's going to be expendable because of what they've acquired in the meantime, because you wound up getting a Jared McCain. You already traded Isaiah Joe for seconds. Like, this seems like the game just rewinds for Oklahoma City. They just, they wind up having to, to make these decisions to avoid the second apron. And at some point, when you got three guys on the max or three guys on something close to a max and one guy bumps to the super max, it's unavoidable at a point. Yeah, this wasn't a second apron decision as much, I think, as it was just straight money. Because I don't think that the Thunder are too worried about being in the second apron for its lack of team building factors because they don't use the mid-levels. They haven't used the mid-levels in years, Bobby, I don't think. Maybe other than to, like, sign draft picks. They don't really use the mid-levels and, you know, I mean, I think this is just straight about saving money. So, you mentioned about, so this summer, they had Lou Dort and Isaiah Hartenstein on team options. They end up doing a new deal for Isaiah Hartenstein, a good deal, three years, $75 million. He took a mile, in a market where, you know, backup centers are getting paid the full mid-level. Isaiah Hartenstein taking, you know, Walker Kessler got $32 million, and Isaiah Hartenstein got $25 a year. So, you know, just frame that. Like, I'm not saying who's better or whatever. I'm just saying those two contracts were signed this summer. So, they got good value, I think, at Hartenstein. You know, he's had some minor health issues, but pretty good. When the Thunder don't extend you, they're probably going to trade you if you're a rotation player or a starter. There's a long history of that. And, you know, players that they have traded, you know, like Chris Paul, Josh Kessler, Giddey, Stephen Adams. The players that they've traded have gotten extended elsewhere. You know, they haven't sort of, you know, sent them away and not let them get paid. You know, Giddey got a $100 million extension eventually in Chicago. But if Sam Presti doesn't want to extend you, you're probably getting traded. And so, when Lou Dort didn't get extended, as you said, Bobby, the league knew he was going to get traded. It was just a matter of what he got traded for and whether it would be a straight salary dump or whatever. So, they ended up, I'm sure, you know, because they did another salary dump, move with the Hawks like three weeks ago, right? Aaron Wiggins to the Hawks. It's another move that Hawks have done. They waited and did this deal separately, I think, because I don't know for sure, but I think it was because the Thunder were trying to see if they could get a first-round pick for Lou Dort. And I think there was even some discussions before the Lakers went ahead and used their cap space and ammo on getting Walker Kessler. I think Lou Dort was an option, or they might have used some of those assets in a signed trade for him. They weren't able to get that, and they got the three seconds. And I'll tell you this, that if you look at the Celtics a year ago, the team that really had to hollow out its depth a year ago was the Celtics. Now, the Celtics had the aggravating circumstance that Jason Tatum had the torn Achilles. So when they let Porzingis, Luke Cornett, and Al Horford go, they traded Porzingis and traded Drew Holiday. I think they only got like Anthony Simons and like two seconds in that deal. All told, I can't remember what they traded Porzingis for, Bobby. And then they later traded Simons for Nikola Vucevic. And I guess the tail on that is still to be determined because they still have this $23 million trade exception they could use. But the point is that the Thunder were able to generate some level of assets. I think, as you said, seven second-round picks. Well, the other thing, too, is that they didn't send him west, right? Like, I think that's, you know, I mean, that's a factor in it is that he goes east. I mean, the last thing you want to do is kind of be handcuffed. Yeah, have Lou Dort guarding Shea in the conference finals. At least he goes east in this deal here. Yeah, unlike the Drew Holiday trade a couple years ago, Milwaukee traded him and he was playing against him in Boston after that. So, yeah, I think that that's relevant. You know, Sam Presti, I think he's the vice president, whatever. He's the head of basketball for the Thunder. He gave an interview to the Oklahoman after this, which was a little bit unusual, Bobby. Presti usually gives, like, two-hour-long marathon sessions at the beginning and the end of every season, and they're often very entertaining and enlightening. He doesn't usually go on the record outside those sessions. He went and went on the record with the Oklahoman because I think he felt like, you know, Lou Dort's a guy who'd been with the franchise a long time, very close to Shea Gilles Alexander. Executive vice president. Executive vice president and general manager. So I can call him general manager and be okay. That's what Jackson tells me. He gives that interview, Vinny, and I think basically to, like, try to explain why the franchise traded this guy in a straight cash dump. And what he basically said was, these savings will help us fund the team in the future. He essentially said that's the plan. So they've got to follow through with the plan. They've got to sign Case and Wallace. They've got to keep A.J. Mitchell. They've got to keep Jared McCain. But essentially, that's what he's saying. He's explaining that this was, we did this to save money so we can keep this team built out for the future. I don't know whether the fans will, you know, how the fans will feel about that, but that's what he said. Have you seen Oklahoma City fans, Wendy? Like, they eat that stuff up. Like, if there is a fan base that will wear a jersey that says flexibility on the back of it, it's probably Oklahoma City, okay? And if there's any, if there's any, if there's any, if there's any, if there's any executive that has engendered that level of, you know, confidence, because we know executives will lie on the record. Like, nobody's excluded from that. But when you look at some of the constraints that Sam Presti is working with, when you look at the draft capital that he has, he can afford to make a move like this. And like I go back to saying, on the floor, when I remember that series, when I go, and I have watched the series in full, you know, since it happened, but just going back to that series, look, man, you still have to do this. You still have to do things to combat the San Antonio Spurs. And you got to have more shooting on the floor. And although the numbers sometimes will say that you got to guard Lou Dort, sometimes you don't. And also, I wonder if some of the reputational stuff, like, hey, my bad, I'm going to hit you in the kidney real quick. Oh, my bad, I'm going to hit you in this real bad, you know what I mean? I wonder if some of that stuff lightly, very, very, very, very, very lightly, I don't mean in some big grandiose way, I wonder if some of that stuff lightly, if some of that stuff plays a small factor in this, if the juice is no longer worth the squeeze when you have so many young players on the back end ready to take on bigger roles and that you have to make financial decisions on in the future. I think they liked Lou Dort as their reputation. I don't think, I don't think, I do think it was interesting that late in the regular season, they had to, like, come out and sort of, like, apologize for that one play. What was that play, Bobby, where, like, Lou Dort, like, publicly admitted, that he had. Oh, Jokic, with Jokic, right? Was it with Jokic? My brain is fried at this point. Yeah, it was, yeah, him and Jokic got into it. Him and Jokic got into it, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think Mark Dagonall, like, came out and defended him, and then, like, when they thought about it for a day, they were like, you know what? I had an executive tell me, he goes, that was the day I knew they were trading Lou Dort, because even if it was in the wrong, if they weren't, I mean, I don't think that's true, just to be clear, but whatever. Do you think the Players Association, David Kelly at the Players Association, is sitting there with a notebook being like, James Dolan, second apron, Oklahoma City, do you think they're kind of collecting their second apron notes? Although, I know they did save a ton of money on here, but, you know, there's nobody in it now. There's nobody left. It's a hard cap. It is, that's the reality. It's a hard cap, and we should all deal with it, and as I said before, you should deal with it, because it's not going to happen. It's not going anywhere for the next three years, and if it changes in three years from now, then we'll adjust from there, and we'll figure it out, but that's what it is right now. One thing I'm going to say about the second apron and teams staying away from a hard cap, just so that I don't get a call from the league office or the players union, the players are guaranteed 51% of the basketball revenue, so if the basketball revenue comes in at $100, the players get $51. It's just a matter of how it's distributed. The whole point is that the teams with players in the second apron offload players elsewhere, so the talent is more distributed. Lou Dort is on the Hawks and not on the Thunder. He's still making the same amount of money. That money would have come in, so it's not that the players are getting less. It's that the teams are not able to build up as much, and there's a forced player sharing in the league, which is the purpose, as Vince said. To spread it out. It's the purpose. It's the purpose of what a hard cap is. And here's the thing, because I asked the question at Adam Silver's press conference, and I got a bunch of, you know, dirty looks from the front of the room. Not Adam Silver, but just you guys know who sits in the front of the room. I got a couple of dirty looks when I said, when I asked the question about not necessarily forced parity, but the players, I won't say they don't lose, but they get their money, right? The league gets its share of whatever this is. I think the fans, by and large, lose out, and not on a Lou Dort situation, but when you look at Victor Wiminiyama taking less than he should, I don't think, just my personal opinion, if it's your first big contract, I do not think that if you're a max player, you should take less. That's just me. Get your money and worry about sacrificing later and all that type of stuff. It's your choice, but that's just my thought. But I do think that the fans kind of lose out if you wind up investing in a group of players and you're watching them grow. And then because they have to get their money, you quote-unquote can't afford them because of this hard cap, and they wind up going somewhere else and getting their money. Another team winds up getting, you know, a player that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and the fans of that homegrown market, like, they lose out on seeing their guy in their uniform being able to, you know, fill this thing out to its fruition. Like, that's one of those things I was trying to hint at when asking Adam about that, and Adam, as deftly as Adam does, goes into, talking about the system is working as it's intended to work. Yeah, he basically said we're not changing it. Thank you for asking. And the other thing, too, is like when you kind of look back the last couple of years on all these financially-related decisions, there hasn't been one yet where it's like one of these young, up-and-coming players, right? When you look at, like, listen, Lou Dort has certainly been in the league. You look at Bradley Beal. You look at Porzingis. You look at Holiday. You look at Horford. You look at, you know, Cornette a little bit there. You know, some of the other decisions that has been made throughout the last couple years here. So there hasn't been, you know, if Oklahoma City had said, hey, we're going to trade Case and Wallace right now because we don't want to extend them because then you're going to be like, wait a minute here. But as Brian said, as Vince, you said, like, listen, the players are still getting the money. There's been over, I did a class last week, there's been over $11 billion in extendings in the last three years. So when players are claiming that, whether it be free agency or whether it be the apron, the money is just distributed differently, right? Like that's just, that's just how this CBA is. More Hoop Collective podcast after this. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly. Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, clickgrainger.com, or just stop by. Hey, it's Wendy here. Are you looking to rebound from your high-interest credit card debt? A SoFi personal loan could help. Consolidate your debt with a SoFi personal loan into one low monthly payment, and you could save money on interest over time. And with as soon as the same day funding, you could hit the ground running ASAP. Apply today with no fees required at sofi.com slash debt rebound. Loans originated by SoFi Bank. NA member FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. Fast funds. Terms apply at sofi.com slash debt rebound. Okay, so I want to talk about the Hawks a little bit. I had to look at the Hawks roster, Bobby, because the Hawks keep making moves to acquire players. And I was like, how many guys they got on their roster? And the answer is, I think they've got 17. I do. 16 are guaranteed out of that group. Okay. Including two first-round picks. Don't forget Kingston Flemings and Zuby Ejiofor. Ejiofor showed some good rebounding in the summer leagues. So they do this deal to pick up Lou Dort. And the interesting thing about this now, Bobby, is the Thunder didn't extend Lou Dort. Will the Hawks extend Lou Dort? And I think the intention is to wait and see. I do not think he will guaranteed get an extension. And if you look at that, when you look at his salary, which is what, 17 million? Yeah. 17 change. 17-7. Yep. And you look at some other, you know, they have Jock Landale on a one-year, $14 million contract. They signed CJ McCollum to a one-year, uh, 21, 20, 17? 21. So if you look at what they've done, they've taken on some big one-year contracts, but also players that are, you know, like Lou is probably going to start for them. You know, um, Jock Landale played backup, you know, CJ McCollum may start, may come off the bench, but it'll be, maybe they're sixth man. Like those guys are gonna, are gonna be key players, but they've also, they also, didn't they have the option to cut Buddy Heald and they picked that up? Yeah, they had a guarantee. Um, they could have saved about, $6 million and they elected not to do it. I mean, they're, they're bad, they're books. I mean, they've got no guy, no players making more than 30 when you look at it. They've got no bad contracts because even they're like, they're, they're, they're big contracts that they've signed. Like, uh, Jalen Johnson, he's at sub max. He's an all-star, uh, playing at sub max, uh, paying, being paid sub max. The deal that they signed, um, Dyson Daniels too, it's a hundred million, but like, maybe you'd have trouble trading it for great value, but it's not considered like a bad contract, right? Bobby, like he was all defense. I mean, that's pretty good. Uh, Nikhil Alexander Walker, that was an excellent contract that they signed. So it's a very, very, so it's a, it's a competitive team. You know, I, I think they're a top six team in the East. We'll see who's healthy and who plays well and what have you. And they've got all these expiring contracts. And I think they're still in relatively good shape pick wise. I know that they still owe San Antonio some assets from acquiring, uh, DeJounte Murray, but they're an okay position. Like Bobby, like I keep an eye on the Hawks in the medium term. If a star, if another star player becomes available. I agree. And we don't, we don't know when that happens, of course, but I, as I said, as you said, um, they've aligned their books to go out and make a deal. If something, um, comes to fruition with a bunch of expiring, potentially expiring contracts. And draft picks or pick goes to San Antonio next year, but they have the least favorable of, um, New Orleans or Milwaukee. I think it's top four protected in there. Um, so they do have a pick there and plus future first with, uh, with that. So, yeah, I mean, they're in a really good financial, uh, position right now, roster wise. Um, somebody is going to be the odd man out eventually when we get closer to the start of the regular season, just because you're going to have to, uh, trim that roster by, by two players. But did they also get Ryan Nembhardt? They got him in that trade? Yeah. Well, that was the under the rate. Yes, they did get Ryan, which had a, I mean, listen, he, and with the Kyrie injury last year, he started a ton of games and played pretty well. And they eventually converted him of his two way to a standard and you get them on a one year, $2.2 million deal. It's pretty good value. I mean, Brian, you look at, and eventually look at what they've been able to do. That was Bontemps' idea. Bontemps, they had the deal done. Bontemps said, wait a minute, we get Nembhardt. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I mean, they basically have traded for Ryan Nembhardt, Devin Carter, Aaron Wiggins, and Lou Doerr for Zachary, we'll just say for Zachary Richachet in future seconds. That's when it, when it all comes down to it there. It's pretty good, pretty, pretty good business. I wonder what we think about a guy who was number one pick, who was traded after his second year, Zachary Richachet. Like I'm so like you, you talk to people around the league. You're so mixed on him. Like he just hasn't, you know, fully devoted, took a step back this year as the Hawks took a step forward. I wonder if he's just an undervalued asset now going to Dallas, not that we're talking about the Dallas part of this or whatever, but he's kind of just a postscript in this Atlanta Hawks deal. Number one overall pick in between Cooper Flagg and Victor Weminyama. He's a trivia question. And like, you know what I mean? He is legit a, I'm trying to think of who the number one pick in 1980. When was that Ralph Sampson? Okay. I was, I was going to say, who's the number one pick between 1982 and 1984 between the, uh, the James Worthy draft and the Hakeem Olajuwon draft. You know what I mean? Like, like that's not, and that's a bet. That's a poor example. Cause Ralph Sampson, I think turns out to be still pretty damn good, but still like that's where he is right now. And not that, not that you worry about giving up on the guy too early, but I think the point that you made Wendy, just in general about flexibility. Or at least that level of flexibility, having the expiring contracts because free agency now to me, I think free agency is dead in the NBA. And you're kind of going back to having flexibility to make trades for guys, because we saw with the Jalen Brown thing, you're going to see it across the league in other situations when you're extension eligible and your team doesn't sign you or your team doesn't extend you, they're going to trade you. And if a team offers you and you don't take it, they're going to trade you. And so you need to be in a position as a franchise to be flexible and pliable to acquire set player like that. Who's going to have multiple years left on this deal, be extension eligible and be good enough where you can, you know, get players like that, that won't cost you the farm. And you can still be worthy of being a contender. Back in my day, they called this secondary draft. When you could get a player who maybe didn't work out with his first team, regardless of whether he was taken number one or number 20, and maybe didn't work out with his first team, and you could get the player when he was still on his rookie contract, it was known as the secondary draft. Right, Bobby? That was the sort of redrafted. In this case, Quinn Snyder, frankly, stopped playing Zachary Richerche down the stretch last year. I mean, maybe not every game, but more often than not, he was on the bench at the end of games. And Quinn Snyder signed a contract extension this year. And with as full as Atlanta's team is, I'm not sure Quinn Snyder was going to play him this year. And so Dallas gets him at decent value here. They use the, Anthony Davis trade exception to take him in. And I got to wonder, Bobby, do you think the Hawks would have picked up? So Richerche is guaranteed this year, but his option for next season is $17 million. Yeah, it's, you know, it's interesting too. And you remember that Ansi Saleh, who's their president of basketball operations, didn't draft him either. So he, I believe Landry Fields did that year. And, you know, Ansi's now in charge. It would have been interesting. If he had drafted him, if he would, you know, sometimes you're attached to guys, right? Like you're attached to that player that you, that you drafted. That would have been, I mean, his, his option year is like, I think $15, $16 million. So that would have been, you know, because that would have taken away potentially some of that flexibility that they, they will have this off season here, but you're right. He, you know, he was not part of the rotation. I think for Dallas, I think you take a flyer on it, right? I mean, it basically cost them. And I know that, that the Ryan Nembhardt was part of it, but it cost him a 2027 second. That was Chicago's to come into a, you know, another good piece of business for a guy. And listen, Mike Schmitz has seen these guys. I mean, you know, he's from an international, they're jam in Dallas. Yeah. Schmitz loves international players. And they get another one there. They traded up in the draft to get the Spanish prospect. Yeah. Sergio de la Rea. Yeah. The Knicks drafted him. And as soon as the Knicks drafted him, Schmitz was trying to get, he was trying to move up. One other former ESPN, we got, we got Royce Young. He was obviously involved in this trade. Just kidding. We got Schmitz, Royce, and Bontemps. I mean, they did the deal. It had nothing to do with Masai and Schmitz. It had nothing to do with Ansi. It had nothing to do with Sam Presti. This was an ESPN guy. All right, since Jonathan Kaminga. The first Bontemps deal. This is, oh, and then you go into Kaminga? This is the Bontemps podcast today. So Kaminga still trends, like, at least on my socials, there he's trending every day. And I want to be clear, I have nothing against Jonathan Kaminga as him or a player, but the outsized interest in what happens to him is mind-boggling to me. The amount of attention and coverage that is paid to Jonathan Kaminga's contractual situation, I cannot compute it, okay? I just can't compute it. For example, well, never mind. Anyway, I see everywhere, Bobby, there's going to be sign-and-trades and sign-and-trades, and maybe he'll get signed to trade for $100 million, and maybe he'll get signed to trade for $95 million. And maybe he'll get signed to trade for $95 million. He'll average 75 points and 26 rebounds. I'm like, okay. Ladies and gentlemen, the Atlanta Hawks have 17 players on their roster with guaranteed contracts. Actually, I think 16, right? You said that? 16 guarantees, one partial. Yeah. Or one non-guarantee. Who are they taking in a sign-and-trade for Jonathan Kaminga? Well, and here's the other thing. They're not going in the luxury tax to do it either. And they took out salary. They're $4.1 million below the luxury tax. They ain't going in. So if you're the Lakers, and you think you're going to trade him, Jared Vanderbilt. Remember, I think it's interesting. When you'd sign-and-trade a player, and you were taking salary back, it's not like you're getting money off your books. This was a player that does not count against anything here. The same thing with, I mean, I'm seeing all these Peyton Watson sign-and-trade scenarios, and I'm like, stop. You know, like, apron. The apron. That's the other thing. I see, like, you know, if LeBron chooses not to go to Cleveland, I'm seeing, like, oh, Kaminga. Seven years. Six hundred and forty-five million Hall of Fame. I'm like, you guys understand that the Cavs, if they take a player in a sign-and-trade, they're hard caps with the first apron. They can't do that. They're going to spend past the first apron. So, I mean, again, like, it's one thing if you're like, yeah, we're going to try to acquire Nikola Jokic, and, like, it doesn't work on the cap. Okay, maybe you figure that out. I just, I've never seen anything, I've just never seen anything like it in my career. The intense desire to acquire Jonathan, to Kaminga at any cost. It's just a fascination when the, you know, because we've been talking about him for so long, like we, I mean, as the NBA, you know, in the NBA Zeitgeist, we've just been talking about Kaminga from the moment he got drafted. The two-time line stuff, playing for the Warriors, like, there's just a fascination with him. And he's been productive, right? And then when you're productive, people want to see, oh, he's going to be fully unleashed when he goes to Place X. He was supposed to be fully unleashed in Atlanta. Maybe he will go do that. Maybe he will sign somewhere and he will average 20 and 10 and he will be an all-star. At that time, we can talk about how much he's getting paid. One thing I want to point out, if I'm not mistaken, Bobby, the Lakers could actually have done a sign-and-trade for Kaminga two weeks ago. When the Lakers traded DeAndre Ayton to the Wizards, there was a window there where the Hawks could have gotten in on the sign-and-trade before the Hawks made other acquisitions and got up against the luxury tax, before they did Lou Doerr, maybe even before they did Aaron Wiggins. There was a window for the Lakers to do a deal to get Jonathan Kaminga, but what they could have paid him would have been, you know, less than the mid-level. The window for sign-and-trades, I mean, everyone's outside of LeBron and some other things. Like, business is pretty much done in the league. I mean, they're really, like, you know, I know the restricted guys are still out there with Watson and Duren, but, I mean, like, the creativity, the creativity of a signing trade right now where 23 teams are basically hard-capped at either the first or second apron. Like, it's not. And then we take the Atlanta part into it, right? Don't forget about them. They just made this trade and took on $6 million more, and they've got 17 guys on their players on the roster. Like, they're not taking back another salary here. By the way, Kaminga might sign somewhere for the minimum, average $20 and $10, and then a year from now, get a max for all I know. And maybe that's why he didn't want to take a sub-mid-level offer from the Lakers in that signing trade. I'm not saying it's a bad decision. Just know that that was the window to get to L.A., was when they sent Aiton to Washington. And by the way, after they sent Aiton to Washington, they then went out and signed Zaire Williams, a wing. So, like, and I'm not saying Zaire Williams is better than Kaminga, but they moved on and signed a wing. Well, remember, too, also, Kaminga's probably, or his agent, Aaron Turner, probably thinking, well, signing trade. It has to be three years. Why am I going to get stuck on a three-year deal? Maybe I can go back in free agency. Well, sometimes the ability to take the now versus the unknown. Like I said, if he signs a minimum and averages $20 and $10, it'll be genius. But enough with the sign and trades of Jonathan Kaminga. Get it off my trending. Thank you. I'm under control. It's all fine. I will say that by late July, we're in silly season at this juncture. Okay. Collective podcast after this. With Apple Card, you earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases like groceries, merch, or tickets to the game. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch Terms and more at applecard.com. 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Let's have the Draymond Green and James Harden getting re-signed back to their teams, depending on what LeBron does. Then there'll be some fallout after that with DeMar DeRozan. But I want to talk about the guys who are extension eligible this summer. We haven't really seen, we saw Victor Wimbanyama extend, but we haven't really seen a lot of guys who are extension eligible come to terms, which is a little bit unusual by late July. No, you're right. I mean, I mean, shoot, I even wrote an article back in June calling it the summer of extensions, and we've only seen, we haven't seen many at all, especially the veterans. The rookies, only Victor, has come off the board so far. I think some of it has to do with the date of their extension eligible. I think Anthony Davis, two players that are the most fast, the name to me, are Anthony Davis, who's extension eligible on August 6th, and Carl Anthony Towns, who has been extension eligible since the finals ended on that Saturday, and he was eligible the final day. Because I think for Davis, it's, you know, listen, it's a big number. They already did the trade deal at four for 213. What is the number for Anthony Davis? I think Towns, for me, it's fascinating just because it could set up for what happens with that roster there. Because next year is Jalen Brunson and OG. Like, eventually, all these numbers start to add up here. And what is, will the Towns number be lower, given the flexibility? We're seeing a day and age where players are negotiating and teams are negotiating also. So those are the two big ones. It used to be, guys, it was Giannis, right? We had circled October 1st. You can put that to bed. Until probably January, as far as what his extension is going to be and everything like that. So, but, you know, there's a lot. Curry is still out. You know, Curry eventually. I think Steph's at the end of July or August. I got to look at his date. But there is a, we've got a who's who of players, all NBA players that are still kind of hanging out there. Look, I know it's fashionable to take less. And I'm not trying to, I promise you, I'm going to preface this by saying, I'm not trying to upset New York Knicks. fans here I've been kind of been their crosshair for the past couple of months, Bobby and Wendy. Jalen Brunson is going to come get all of his money. Every bit that he, I won't say he sacrificed. He signed the year early, right? He signed a year early. He could have signed for $100 million more by signing later. Every dollar of that, what, $280 or $300 that he's supposed to get next summer, he's going to get all of that. How does that affect any of this conversation? That affects what you do with Carl Anthony Towns. Like, Carl Anthony Towns won an extension before the season started. Did not get it. And now we're in this spot where Carl Anthony Towns sacrificed a lot. Wounder going into the playoffs as their most important player. You saw how critical he was to them rolling through the East, them rolling through the finals, his defense on Victor Wiminiyama. And usually when that happens, a player wants to get rewarded for his sacrifice. How do the Knicks balance both of those things? Is it possible? To do both of those things? Because you know Jalen Brunson is going to have to eat first. But Carl Anthony Towns is going to be up first for a contract extension. It's going to be delicate. I'm curious to see how Leon Rose and Jim Dolan and those guys handle that situation. Well, Jim Dolan is on the record saying we're not going into the second apron. And then the Knicks operated their offseason not going into the second apron. It cost him Mitch Robinson. And they drove a hard bargain with Landry Shannon. I thought that was a good thing. I thought they got him at a good number. They got all their guys at good numbers. Mm-hmm. They did. So they have set the standard that they're not doing it. So Carl, he's a 20-10 guy who's proven to be a champion and was great in the playoffs. He wants that max extension. It is completely reasonable. But if his standard is, you know, max or bust, it becomes uncertain. Now, it doesn't affect the 26-27 season. The Knicks starters will all be back. Whether he signs it or not. But, you know, the Knicks don't want him to be a free agent in 27, which is where he could be. So, you know, they had an opportunity to extend it before last season. They didn't do it. I'm not criticizing that. It worked out. And so now they've left themselves where they're in position to, you know, to deal with that. And look, what's the number where he takes less? I mean, like, I don't even know, Bobby. Well, you know, his option year is 61. Okay? So the max. That's basically the number. So I'm just looking at their numbers right now. So they're roughly $13 million below the second April next year, including the option year. Free agents. The big free agent is Deuce McBride. And Josh Hart's got a team option. So really, it's really not about as much as 27. It's really about the other, the 28 year. That 28-29 year when the Brunson $43 million number is going to jump to probably 60, I would think. Right? Like, that's going to be his. Because Jalen is going to opt out of the last year of that contract at some point and get his proper race. Yeah. That's where you're going to start to see things add up with New York. But certainly him taking a little bit less, that would give them more flexibility next offseason to be able to add some things to the roster. So they're not just pressed up against that second apron. It's just, look, it's hard to keep teams together for more than like three years at this point. And for that to happen, you have to bend. And the Thunder, I mean, the Celtics, you saw what's happened to the Celtics. Yep. The Thunder are bending, trying not to break. And the Knicks are, it's tight. It feels, it's squeezed. And so we'll see. Do they bend or break? You know? And that's what this will be a, this moment will be an indication of whether that could happen. So I do know this. Vince, you're on the front lines of this. Carl Towns is a damn important player for them. Yes, he is. Damn important player. So we'll watch that. Obviously, the other one is Jokic, which there's no drama there. He's not extending. Listen, the Jokic one is fascinating. For me, it's interesting. And I know he's come out and said that Denver is where he's going to be and all that. And he's going to sign next year. But man, I'm just looking at their roster, like what they've done or really haven't done this offseason. And going into next year, you know, as the. Third best, fourth best, fifth, I don't know. You can go down the pecking order there. They're basically, they're the same team, right? They're the same team and they still have the Peyton Watson situation to figure out here. What's your favorite phrase, Wendy? Actions over words. There we go. Yeah, we'll see. Bobby, how about sports business classroom? You had a great week last week, right? We did. We had a terrific week. We had. I think the numbers eventually got there. I think we were at 130. I was really, you know, one of the things that, besides the actual programming that we go through, daily programming, having speakers come through and presenting is that we have a mock trade deadline on Friday. And the people at Spotrack came in and built out a secondary website for them to use. Like a dummy shadow website. Because the traffic on their site has been so great with all these students. And they built out the site. But one of the things, Brian, they have to do is on Wednesday, they have to present what we call midterms. So you have to come in and kind of give an idea. God, Vince, they have a midterm on a week-long class? Well, let's just say the midterms on Wednesday were not very good. Uh-oh. The professor was upset. Significantly, I was very concerned. And when I talked to them on Saturday after they presented, which were really good, like probably the best I've said. I was honest with them. I said. You were all a train wreck on Wednesday. You basically have made grounds as far as where they are. And yeah, I mean, it's an exhausting week. But it's probably, as I always say, it's probably one of the more enjoyable weeks. Are you willing to reveal, like, because there's a fake trade deadline, what the best non-real but simulated trade that you saw? It wasn't a trade. So we had our clutch group, which was our students, come up and tell us where LeBron was going. As I said, it was fictional. They had him go to Minnesota to join Anthony Edwards and LaMelo and that group. We saw Devin Booker get traded to Orlando as part of the deal. So yeah, we had some big numbers. The team that won it all was Chicago, which really just did a nice job as far as identifying who they were as a group. But it was fun. It was like a fun process for them to go through. And I always said, like, you know, when you have a deadline, they had three and a half hours to do the trade deadline from 830 to noon. When you have a deadline, your reactions are different, right? Everybody just reacts differently here as far as where they were during the week. It's fascinating. We should put it on YouTube. It would get aggregated. I want to sit in on this. Well, you know what the beauty of it is, too, is like, you know, listen, you can talk about AI all you want. But when you present, like how AI is incorporated presentations, right? Like what? Teams can what people can do now with AI is really a remarkable thing. And yeah, it's I take I remember we did this in February in L.A., but it was an expansion draft and taking pictures of what they're people actually thought it was real. Like when I, you know, how social media works and everything. But it was it was, as I said, it's always a rewarding, rewarding experience. All right. And now you sleep until LeBron. Until LeBron. That's right. All right. Thank you to Miles, Mark, Tucker and Jackson. Put it together. Thank you to Bobby and Vinny. Thank you for watching and listening to the Hoop Collective. We'll be back later this week or probably actually before when we hear from LeBron. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. No two football players are exactly alike. And the same is true off the field. 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