Êxodo 19.1-15 - O Deus do pacto chama o povo a segui-lo - Rev. Emilio Garofalo Neto

are killing in the night. Where's Simone? 20 years later, police still haven't solved the case, and I want to know why. Did you kill Simone Strowville? No, never. She liked about one thing. You made life out of other things. Just because someone's lying doesn't make them a murderer. I'm Richard Baker. Join me to investigate lies in Lisbon, the new season of Unravel. Search for Unravel on ABC Listen, or wherever you get your podcasts. ABC Listen, podcasts, radio, news, music, and more. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, watching Australian swimmers compete also meant watching Laurie Lawrence. Laurie was always there, not in the pool, but pacing up and down at the edge or shouting wildly from the stands. At the end of a race when the camera came to him, he'd often be so overwhelmed with emotion that he couldn't even form words. It was like Laurie had more energy and adrenaline than the kids in the pool, and that emotion would transmit through the TV screens to infect the rest of us watching at home. Laurie spent his childhood living above the Tobruk Memorial Baths in Townsville. That's where his love affair with swimming began, one that has continued his whole life. But over the years, he's changed the way that he thinks about winning and what it is that makes a champion. I spoke to Laurie Lawrence about his story in 2019. Hi, Laurie. Let's go, Sarah. Let's go. I've been waiting for this. Should say we're both here in our speedos and our swim cats. We are. I love your swim cat with the rows on the top. So as I say, you grew up in Townsville. How did you struggle to breathe as a kid? What was going on for your health was? I had a disease called bronchiectasis, which affects the lungs, and on top of that, I was asthmatic. So I was always having big trouble breathing. The doctor, I finished up Dr. Hershfield, a specialist here in Brisbane, brought me down and removed the bottom half of the left lobe. Actually removed that? Yeah, it took that left long out, and my dad then was told I should swim. So he'd been, oh, dad was a pubic and a sheerous cook, Chuck Farmer. He'd eat all sorts of things, Traxy Driver. And he finished up then getting the job as manager of the Tribok pool, which meant we lived at the pool. There was a little flat above the pool. I still remember it very, very vividly. You'd go up the stairs, turn left, you're in the kitchen. And what else, how many rooms in that little flat? There were two rooms. So Mum and Dad had a room, my sister and I had a room, and there was a balcony outside that looked out over the top of the pool, where the toilet was out there too. So it was quite small, very condensed, but it doesn't worry kids. Kids love that sort of stuff. And in terms of your health, Laurie, what do you remember about that operation? That's a big thing for a kid to go through. I remember, there's a couple of things I remember. One, I had a tube in my back to drain the blood, and I had to cough every hour or so. And that was the most excruciating thing ever. I had to cough and to get any blood that was drained the blood. I remember that. And I remember a huge needle being pressed into my sternum, into the chest to drain fluid out too. They're the most, they're things that I remember most. The other thing I remember, even when I was in hospital, I used to remember getting myself up onto the door, the top of the door, holding on and trying to do some, some chin ups. What? Just, yeah, I wanted to get strong because I was pretty hairy and weak really as a kid. I wonder what the doctor has made of that. Well, I know. I think it must have been before the operation. I know after it, Sarah. And did that help? Then did your breathing feel better often? Well, once I got to the pool and started to swim every day, I just grew and grew and breathing got better and better. And to be honest, I don't know what it's like to have too long. So I've always operated on one. And I just think physiology like that, I don't know, this could be bull crap. Bull dust. Yeah, but that's right. That, your body acclimatises and adapts. So I think my oxygen exchange is better than most. My oxygen exchange. It's like you're living at altitude. The ten-year runners are up there. They come down to sea level and they hardly blow out a candle when they're running. When you were living up there above the pools in Townsville, what happened in 1956 who came up to use the pool? That was just a memory that's just burnt into my subconscious, really, that the Australian Olympic team came up to train. And all the great coaches of the time, Harry Gallagher, Forbes-Carla, Don Talbot, they're all there. And there was 50 odd people that were part of the Australian Olympic training camp in Townsville. But they're at that camp with the starting, so it's a really growth of Australian swimming. Because from there, they went to the Melbourne Olympics and we won 9 out of 13 gold medals, won every freestyle event, every freestyle event. David Tyler, who's a surgeon here in Brisbane now, a specialist surgeon, he won the backstake, won the next Olympic Games as well. Lorraine Crap broke the four, four, five minutes for the 400 metres freestyle for the first time, gold medalist, Dourney Fraser, gold medalist, John Hendrix, gold medalist. And these guys were all up at Townsville. Why were they training there? Well, Townsville, there were no heated pools in those days back in 1956. And Townsville was just the ideal place to go. Sun, warm water, well, 27 degrees, which is what kids train in these days. And when it's heated, and they were just there, and I was just like, this was the smogest board for me, because I was chasing and getting autographs. Did you get to know any of those swimmers? Oh, yeah, yeah. Johnny Hendrix, we actually, who's the Olympic champion? John Hendrix actually stayed, I had to get out of my bed and give it to him. So that little two bedroom flat was even more crowded. Where did you sleep if John Hendrix was in the bed? I slipped out on the vranda on that little balcony out the front. We put another bed out there, a little rubber bed out there. And because the whole of the town got involved and embraced the swimmers being in town, and they were billeted with families all over Townsville. And the biggest thing I can remember, and I'm reminded every year, because from that day, when John Hendrix won the Olympic gold medal, and he finished up going to America and marrying a millionaires over there, and becoming building the company that he was there, he sends my father a Christmas card every year. And when my father passed away, he started sending it to me. And really, I'm getting a bit, you know, thinking about how just one little thing for about someone stays with you for eight weeks, but they don't forget. And particularly, the Olympic champion doesn't forget. So I think, and what dad told me, he said, mate, you make the same people on the way down as you do on the way up. So he said, you've got to treat them everyone exactly the same. You've got to be able to eat with the everyday person, and dine with kings or queens, whatever. It wasn't just that those swimmers went on to get gold in Melbourne. They were breaking records up there in Townsville, to tell me about the carnival that happened there. Oh, the last night, that was the last day they were going to be, last week they were going to be there. They decided to have a special event. And invite the whole town to come and see them swim these time trials. And that afternoon, they expected such a crowd that the council brought huge cranes in, and they brought the curly bells, the old football stands, the removable stands from the Townsville Sports Reserve. And they lifted them over the fence onto the grass. So it became like a colosseum, and I can still see dad there. I night, watch me face. Don't put it on the palm tree. And as he guides, and this poor young fellow with the cigarette dangling out of the side of his mouth, he's having a heart attack. Well, dad, and Stumpy Lawrence is there giving him the rounds of the kitchen and dawn. And I can see Dornie sitting there, and John Hendrix next to him, Stumpy is going off today. It was just, and that night was the highlight. As I saw World Record after World Record being broken, I think they'd broke something like 13 World Records, numerous Australian Records, and it was just a night to be old. And it was like a colosseum, and I had pride at play sitting in that dingy little a top deck, you know, like my own little private balcony box. And I can remember that as if it was yesterday. Did you have dreams of being a champion swimmer yourself? No, I was never, I'm not a good swimmer. I'll be out trying with all George. Marshall. He was a war fee that came down to the pool every afternoon and coached the kids. And really taught so many kids to swim and he did for nothing George. And he was the coach of the Townsville Tourist Swimming Club. And I swam with Townsville Tourists, but I wasn't a great swimmer, but I came down to the Queensland Championships on a couple of occasions and made finals, but never ever got on the podium. So, yeah, I played all sports. I loved cricket, loved rugby league in those days. But when I got to go to Brisbane to do my physical education diploma, I played rugby union down here. When you were still up in Townsville, Laurie, what changed in your family's life when you were 15 or so? Well, 15 years of age, there was a bit of a disaster as far as I was concerned because I really, I loved my mother and I loved my father and they just couldn't get on together. And in those days, it was unheard of for women to leave. But my mum, she was, she was a strong woman. She got up and took two little girls and myself. I was 15, the girls were well 11 and maybe seven left and came down to Brisbane and stayed with my aunt down here at Gumball for a while. And then she got a manager of a boarding house, a 272 vultures street, right there in the heart of Woolen Gabbard, right in those days, I'll tell you, a whole pad of birds, she was the SP bookie girl. She lived around the, around the back from us and the bulk of the people, it was a boarding house for men really. I think there was only one woman was ever allowed to be there. And I was a rough joint. What sort of stuff did you see there? Oh, Friday, Saturday night, they were blues all the time, fights all the time. It's just men and they were sleeping in. A lot of the unfortunately, a lot of the men were alcoholics. And if you didn't get your, you rent on the Friday when the, the pace came through, you are straight along to get it. So she was dealing with these men all the time. Were you helping out as a teenager? Yeah, I was helping out. I used to help with the washing. You know, we used to wash all the sheets of, there was probably about 60 people boarding there. And we used to do, every Sunday, we used to do the sheets and it was in the old coppers. You know, the old copper? You used to push it down with a stick and get it out your eyes to do that, I used to help that. Where did you sleep in the boarding house? My two sisters slept with my mom in one room and we had a little kitchen for ourselves and one lounge room. So there was one room, one lounge room in the kitchen, that's what we had. She had toilets with the, with the clients. And there was a tool shed downstairs. It looked out on the car park, the dirt car park and I had a little room there. I had slipped in there in the tool shed. And yeah, when it rang, you'd have the water run in through the tool shed and out. But, you know, it was great. Open wardrobe, just an open wardrobe. No door was closing it, but it was good. Concrete floor, dirt floor, half dirt, half concrete. Who was the little boy, Laura, who came one day with his family to the boarding house? One day, a guy arrived with his son in tow. He was ten years of age. And he was, he was an alcoholic, not the boy, but the father was full on alcoholic looking for somewhere to stay. And they did. We took him in. Well, they had to pay. And then after a year or two, the father died. And so we knew he had this young boy, had uncles who were in high places in town, so we rang him. And they wouldn't take him. They didn't want him. And so my mum then fostered him. And he stayed with us. And it's a fantastic story, really. And as he grew up, he got some mum's bad habits. Like what? Going to the races every Saturday. Did they go together? They used to go with it to the races. And he used to be the tea runner. He'd run around and get tea for all the old ladies at the races watching. And as a result, he finished up a bookie doing bookmaking and then finished up giving a bookmaking away. But he got a taste and a love for the horses. And he wanted mum to adopt him. And mum said, "No, you've got your own name. You keep your name and be proud of it. You've got your own name." And when he came to have a driver's license, I taught him to drive. And I did it pretty tough for him. I actually got a lemon and two forks and said, "Right, we're driving now. You've got the lemon. You've got to keep it straight. There's just a bit of fun." So he said, "No." I said, "You went through a stop sign. You've just lost your license." And I can still see us playing in the room and him trying to do things to get his license. Early lorry, Lawrence Coaching. Early lorry. Anyway, he finished up. He got the license. The very first day he and my sister went through the five ways of the GABA with him driving. And he called. Anyway, he stayed with us. And when mum got older and remarried, and she remarried a farmer who actually stayed at our boarding house, used to keep a room at the boarding house. And she got friendly with him and she finished up marrying him. And he was a dairy and then she went up the farm. And every Saturday, every Saturday, and I call this young fellow the Gav. The Gav used to come up to the farm and sit down with mum. Look at the cows grazing out in front of them. Beautiful farm. And so, "Well, mum, what do you like at the races today?" And she said, "Love, I like race six or three. It's a year on. I'll ring down." And he had a betting account in Darwin. He'd ring up and put the bets on for mum. So, I'll never forget. And when mum passed away, he survived on my doorstep and knocked on the door and said, "What are you doing at the funeral? Are you talking at the funeral?" I said, "Gav, I'm not talking at the funeral mate." He said, "Well, I am." He said, "Because I remember the day a 10-year-old boy walked into that boarding house. I'm getting a bit too, very thinking about it." And he said, "I've never been successful or nothing would have ever happened in my life if it hadn't been for your mother." So, he said, "I'm talking." So, I guess he pushed me to have eulogy. And he's a lovely boy married and we're still in touch every day, text me. What's happening? No much, Gav. What growing up in that environment mean for your attitude towards alcohol, Laurie? Well, I had another mate there whose father was an alcoholic. He never drank. I look all have a scotch once a week or, but I'm not a big drinker because I was brought up in pubs first before we went to the drug pool. And, you know, in pubs you see the best and the worst of people. And the gavers never touched a drink. So, I had two people who lived in that boarding house with me who've never touched alcohol. And I've touched alcohol, but I'm not, I got, well, I'm telling lies. I got drunk once, once in my life, twice. Once in my life. I made the Australian rugby team and I come back on the plane and the boys got me pissed. Full on. I was gone. I come home in the middle of winter and months then I moved to Euronga with a new husband, Darcy. And I knock on the door, "Mom, I made a team." And she said, "Yeah, but you're not getting in because you come home drunk. We don't have that in our house." Where do you spend the night? On the bloody grass outside, frost. Cold as charity. So, if you're listening up there, Mom, thanks for everything you've done. How did your rugby career take off, Laurie? Well, I came down to Brisbane and the Shorty Southgate, Ken Southgate, at the teachers' college, was in charge of the rugby. And we had no money and I wanted to do visit at college. I got a scholarship to do teaching, school teaching. I always wanted to be a school teacher, but then I wanted to be a physical education teacher, go on further, but we couldn't afford it. So, Kenny Southgate gave scholarships to go to uni and he was a rugby coach. So, I crawled up big time to Kenny, played rugby for him, made the team. We had a great team. We finished up winning the Premiership, the Queensland Premiership for Rugby Union and from there, I finished up making the Wallaby Tour of New Zealand in 1964. So, more by it because I stood out. with the help of all my teammates when we're on the premiership, you know. How did you first international game in New Zealand? I try to forget that, Darcero. Try to remember for us. Oh, no, Darcero, no, Darcero, you're just trying to open wounds now. Old wounds, you're playing, you're wanting to rub salt in. We're all about the old wounds on converse. Okay, well, first game ever I was for Australia was against Auckland. They were the ran fairly shield holders, and all Kiwis listening would know about the ran fairly shield. You were the premier club or city in New Zealand if you held the shield. And they were dotted with international. So full of international. Mac, Hero, Winnie, and I could go on Peter Murdoch, you know, the Meeds. There was so many great rugby players in there. Now, Halfback was Descona, who used to be Australian Halfback, and he'd gone over to New Zealand and was there. Descona, Ken Catchpal, God bless him, was the rated number one sort of in the world. Now it was Australian Halfback. And he was Australian Halfback. So now we go over there and I'm the second string Halfback for Australia. I didn't get the number one spot Catchpal did. So the New Zealand papers are every day. Catchpal versus Connor, what will happen? What's the outcome of this fantastic battle between these two giant Halfbacks? So it's just you have to understand the New Zealand mentality for rugby. To understand they are mad. They are dead set, loopy about rugby. That's all they think about. And they're good at it too. Anyway, on the Friday, before the Saturday at Auckland, she starts to rain, and it's pelting down. So I get a visit from Ken Catchpal. He says, "Lory, look," he said, "I got a bit of a hamstring pull, and I want to look after my leg for the test." I said, "That's great." He said, "You'll be getting your first game for Australia tomorrow." I said, "Oh, thanks very much, Ken." So I get to the ground and I'm nervous enough as it is without the way it is. And the announcement comes and Eden Parks packed. I mean, there's 50 or 60,000 in the grandstand, and even the high rise apartments across the road have got people sitting on Belk and he's there. So I've said, "Oh, this will be good." So they start announcing the team. Number one for Australia. Very KC. Howdy runs to the roar of the crowd. Number two, Dave Grimmand and the crowd go nuts. Beerus L Woods, yes, Philmore Thorn, yes. And then they call out, "And now the halfback Ken Catchpal has been replaced by L Lawrence." And Sarah, you've never heard 50,000 people say, "Oh, and that's the applause." I ran out to 50. I've never liked the Kiwis since. 50,000 oz as I run out. How did the game end up? They won, and I had the worst game I've ever had in my life. I couldn't, you've opened wounds. Let's go on to the next. Let's go on to swimming. Yes. How did you go from that to being a swimming coach? Well, I got transferred. I really wanted to play rugby then and continue to play. I got to taste for it. And I got transferred with the education department, because I was a physed teacher, and I used to, I got transferred from Carinda to Carinda High School, up to Wemba. And when I was up there, the climate just didn't agree with more chest and lungs, and I finished up, fully-blown, asthmatic, trying to teach kids, sitting on a chair on the oval. I just resigned from the education department. Dad still had the triple pool in Townsville. I used to go back to Townsville every school holidays to visit him and stay there and work with him. He said, "Well, come up here. You can teach, teach swimming." So that's how it started. I went up. I started to teach swimming. And before I know it, these kids are starting to grow, and I'm starting to take them to the state championships. Well, what was making you a natural as a coach, Laurie? I think communication skills are important in teaching kids. And I think I got the gift of the gab a bit. And I think one of the things I can do is communicate with people. And if you want to communicate properly and get kids on side or anyone on side, they'll come with you. And so I built that sort of team atmosphere out of swimming. And even today, a lot of those kids are still friends, and they're still keeping contact with me. What was your focus as a coach? Where did you put your priorities? The very first thing for me, I come from a rugby background, so you had to win. We're coming to win. We're not doing anything else except winning. But on the way through, in the learning swim process, I made sure everything was pedantic. Do you know what I mean? If you learn to float, you do it properly. If you're going to kick, you do it properly. When we combine arms and legs, we do it properly. So for eight years in a row, I taught to swim the kid that won the so 10-year-old championship in those days. So 27 champions in that actual little squad in Townsville never been done before a sense. But once they could swim, I worked there. Ah, so off. Kids, they. And it's amazing how hard kids will work. If. And people say you shouldn't be doing that. Look, if they don't want to do it, how can you make someone do something if they don't prepare to do it? If you don't sell them the dream. So sell them the dream, work them hard. Laurie, one of the young swimmers you were coaching back in the 1970s was Helen Gray. How did you first spot her talent? Well, she was natural. I mean, she was about 10 at the time, maybe nine. And she was quick. I mean, she had quite an unusual style, really. She looked like a spider going across the water. But I had so many good kids at the grays, came to me and they were a big family. And said, "Can you catch Helen?" And of course, I said, "Oh, yeah, she's. I haven't taught it to swim, but I'd love to catch you." And she can become part of the squad. And that was the start of a really great relationship. What happened when you sent Helen down to the Queensland Championships? Well, I came down with her actually, but my philosophy for swimming was, you know, it's win-it-all costs. You get out there and you win. Because I come from the rugby background. There's no seconds, no thirds. And in the early days, you know, I had a lot of kids who had ranked number three and four and second in Australia, giving the sport away. Because I. Because they thought they weren't winning, because they weren't number one. You can see that now. I can see that. And I changed, even in those early days, I saw that. And I changed to say, "Right-o." We can't always win by touching the end of the pool first, but we can always try for our best time. If we do our personal best, that's a win. That's a win. How did that play out with Helen? Well, with Helen. I thought she was good enough, even though she was only 13, amazing. And she'd come to the Queensland Championships, the age championships, not the open, the age. And she'd be in those that year, the great Shane Guild. Over 800 metres and 400 metres. So she was. She was a real talent. Well, so I was Shane Guild. And so Helen, I said, "I think we can make come-off games." And so we'll go down to these special Queensland Championships with the open girls, you know, the open women. So first night she comes back, and she comes back with a silver medal. And she's got the biggest smile on her face, you've ever seen. She's so happy. And I looked at it and I said, "A silver medal." I said, "Do you think you're going to make the Commonwealth Games team?" And the best you can do is a silver medal at Queensland Championships. Baby, you're sadly mistaken. This medal is on the way. So I just threw that silver medal. Over the fence at the old valley pool. If you ever get in the old valley pool. Might be that. That fence backs on to the trade line. You know, the red cliff express train line along there. Laurie, how did she react? She wasn't happy. And she was not happy. And a lot of parents in there in the stand weren't happy either. And next minute, Greg Lawler, the chairman of Queensland Swimming, has asked me to appear in his office. I mean, all I've done is throw a silver medal over the fence. So that night, I almost got run down by the red cliff express as I went over the fence to retrieve the medal. And I've come back and I've given it back to Helen. I said, "I look." She said, "I'm sorry, but I'm so tired. I'm so tired. You've got me doing this. and you haven't given me any rest, you haven't taped me. I'm doing eight kilometers in the morning, and racing at night, I said, "Well, I'll give you a deal." For the next three days, we'll go easy, hardly any training. I'll get to the zoo, there's a local zoo here. I forget his name now. Billy, Billy, Billy, Billy, it doesn't matter. Anyway, I'll get Billy to give you a massage, and you can race, again, these girls on Saturday night, and I want a different result. So I rest it up, and that's Saturday night. People are expecting me to throw silver or bronze medal over the fence. She's come up with the biggest smile on her face, a gold medal hanging around her neck. She took it off and flicked it to me and said, "You're wondering, old metal baby, there it is." And she went on to make the Australian Commonwealth Games team to Edinburgh, 1972. She was my first Australian representative, and she got beaten by Karen Morass in the 800 meters freestyle, and got to sell the medal. She's never really ever showed me that silver medal. But she was going to end up. Anyway, she's a great lady, and she's married, got a young son who's now, who she actually came around Australia with me promoting the Water Safety Program that I do, when he was little. Do you reckon this tough love thing worked with her? Well, I think fairness is the most important thing, you know? And I think I've learned also about, as a coach, I was a brash young coach, I just started out. I was pretty, you know, I wasn't too bad. I had the long sideburns. You agree with me? I had the moustache, you know? Ming Blue shirt, Valbottom trousers, pointy show shoes. Like, I was a chick magnet in those days. And I had good relationship, I had good relationship with the kids, you know? And I've fallen in love with swimming since I was a snottie nose kid around the pool in Townsville, because I know how good it is. And it's a team sport, you know? You come together as a team. And someone fails, you've got mates around you to put their arms around you and say, come on, let's go. Some of those swimmers, Laurie, that you're working with, as you say with Helench, was 13, they're still so young. And I wonder with some of them, after they had big success, one gold, was that almost a stumbling block for some of them? I think sometimes it is a huge stumbling block, because if they don't achieve those heights again, then it can affect them. And so, for me, what I've always said, look, you're race to win. If you get beaten, you know, realise that the person next to you was too good, go underwater, have a swear at him, you know? So, well, and then go over and shake their hand, put their arms around and say thank you. But under the breath, you say, well, I'm going to get to next time we race. But the biggest thing I think that, because I'm an educationalist, well, I say I'm an educationalist, I school teacher and physical education teacher and coaching, which is education. I've always believed that, you know, you can't eat gold medals. And so, I've always said to every child or every young man or woman that I've coached, go out, get your university degree, because what are you going to do when you're finished? You know, and that's what we see. We see too many young guys. They put everything into their swimming career. They finish and they're lost. What are they going to do? The lights are gone out. They're not the superstar on the front page anymore. They're not being run up by the media for an interview. And they lose it. They lose sight of what it's about. But if you know that you've got your education and you know that you can't eat gold medals, that's two things, then you can be successful in life. And honestly, you know, success in life, swimming teachers use so many things. Even if you don't win, you've still learned time management. You've still learned discipline. You've still learned focus. You've still learned work ethic. You've still learned teamwork. There's so many things. This is the greatest sport. You've still learned that the only sport with boys and girls can get together, try together, rub shoulders together and still be good mates. So going through those tough years, those puberty years, the puberty blues, they're supported by boys and girls together and you do things together. You know, it's fantastic. One of your prodigies, John Seben, he was just 17, wasn't he when he won gold at the Olympics? Yeah. How did that affect his career, winning gold so young? I think that was bad for John A, because John A is very smart like. You know, he should have been a lawyer because he'd argue he's way out of any of the training sessions I used to give him. But he ride the Olympic Games for that 12 months, two years before the Olympic Games, he never missed a training session ever. Even when he had a sore shoulder, when he had a sore shoulder, he came to the pool and kicked. He put on and did the same training session as everyone else, only did it on a kickboard. When his legs were hurt, he tied his ankles up, used a pool boy and swam the whole session with his arms, never missed one. The other thing was he had never missed stroke, broken stroke in butterfly in his life. Since he was a 10-year-old kid when he even took a mouthful of water at the valley pool as a 10-year-old and stopped in the middle coughing. He didn't do freestyle or backstroke or cry. The other kid swam past him and he kicked again and came again and finished up winning that race even as a 10-year-old. So he had a lot of pride. But after he won the Olympic gold medal at 7-Ein and beaten Michael Gross, the Albatross, the huge German with the wingspan of a great bird, he came back and everyone wanted a piece of him, 17-year-old kid, the more radio, come down to the casino, let's go here and so he loses sight of what's important in his swimming career. So when you think at 7-Ein, winning a Olympic gold medal, he'd be the greatest butterflies from other worlds ever seen and he should have been. But he lost sight of the fact that to be successful in swimming or in life, you need to work hard and he'd miss a training session which he'd never do in the early days. And I'd say, "Johnna, you missed, you missed, I went down the gold coast, Laurie, I swam, I caught some waves, I was good." I said, "It might be good, but it's not the same as training." So he forgot how he got good. And as a result, a nice to say to him, "Mute mate, if you're on 30 Olympic trials, you're not in the team. Who's going to beat me, Laurie? Who's going to beat me? I've looked at them all on paper, they can't go as good as me." He was true the first 91-100 butterfly and was first man selected on the Olympic team in 1988 to go to Seoul. For the 100 butterfly, his pet event comes up the 200 butterfly, which is World Record Aller and Beaton. He gets beaten into third place. And one of the boys had beat him and scratched that night and come back. Scratched the night, he was saving himself for the 200 fresh soul. And I thought, "If I now protest and get that boy disqualified, who's been selected to the Olympic team, John O can come in and swim his favourite event at the Olympics." And I had agony thinking about that. And I said, "No, he's come 30, he's going to have to miss it. I'm not going to go and be a real sticklet for rules and ruin a kid's chances of being on the Olympic Games." So he went to the Olympics. He thought he might get a butterfly swim because he had coach said, "If you're swimming well, we'll give you that spot, but he never did." And John O was fourth in the 100 butterfly, it was won by Anthony Nestery from Suriname, who trained in America. So that's one of the, that's a gold medal that got away for Australia. He did get another gold medal at that Olympic. So I did. I did, Anna Bronze. Julie McDonald got the bronze for us. She come third behind an East German, behind the great Janet Evans and an East German. And Duncan, of course, you mentioned Duncan won the Olympic gold medal, which was fantastic. It was only yawning to Duncan the other day. Let's just hear a little bit from from that moment. We did it again, mate. How do you feel? Mate, we just beat three world recorders. How do you think I feel? How do you think I, Laura, inside did you think you could do it? Mate, what do you think we come here for? Silver, stuff the silver we come for the gold. What do you think we come for? Thank you for finding action. It's, it's a really glorious moment, Laura. You actually can't speak. I haven't included the bit where you're making a sound, really, which is like a guinea pig for a good, good three minutes. Why was that? I mean, any gold medal must be astonishing. But why was that such a big deal for you and for the country it feels like? - Well, Sarah, you spend your life with these kids. You see them more than their parents. You're there at 4.30 in the morning when they're sitting in the dark, waiting to get led into the pool. And you're there still at seven o'clock at night, eight o'clock at night. On their own with Duncan while he, I put the weight belt on him in the diving pool 'cause his legs were weak. And I said, come on, Duncan, we'll do a half an hour kick extra every night so that you can build your legs up and incase you need them in the final. And he'd get into that diving pool of chandelier. Close my eyes, it's a big diving pool. 30 meters deep, diving heavy weight belt around his belly with his hands stretched well above his head, just like this, and he's kicking there. And I'd have him there for half an hour, you know, while he's kicking with his arms, it's a very good exercise, Sarah. If you don't kick, you're down, so. (laughing) - It's a motivation. - It's a motivation. - 'Cause he went in, he wasn't a favorite in that freestyle race at all, wasn't it? - No, he was ranked probably 47 in the world, something like that. But look, what I've always said to the kids, this is the basic coaching philosophy. The first thing kids have got to do is learn to swim properly. Because if you can't swim, you can't swim. And I'm saying learn to swim correctly, that's number one. Then number two, don't believe any stone unturned in your preparation. Preparation is the ladder of success. That's what makes you successful, preparing. And it's no different to this, because obviously, you've done some preparation for this by the difficult open wound questions that you keep dancing. - Haven't had any ways strapped to my waist, though, thankfully. - But we, so leave no stone unturned. So we do a lot of extra things. And don't and then would go home from the pool. And some of the Americans were doing some, what we call wheels. And wheels, you get a big skateboard, you turn the wheels sideways, so that you can lie over the wheels, and put garden gloves on. And every night he'd go home. I said, "You gonna do this with your father?" He'd go home, and they lived on an incline, a fairly steep incline at Mount Gravatt. He'd go home, get the wheels, put the garden gloves on. And in the middle of winter, he'd pull himself up the hill for half an hour up, walk down in silent communion with his father. They'd just walk down together. Up he'd go again. They'd walk down together. He'd put the garden gloves on, up he'd go. And he did this every night. So he did all the extras. So when the time comes to race, I said, "Made who's gonna beat you?" What, get in there and just do your best. So they get up there, they look left, they look right, and they say, "Come on, let's boogie, I'm ready for racing." And if you get beaten, they're too good, because you've done everything. That's the basic philosophy. - You were so deliriously excited after that. - No worries, a gorgeous thing to watch. Did you ever get tapped on the shoulder by other officials or swimmers say, "Take it down a level"? - There was a Korean security guard that had a couple of words to me. There was, no, that was fine. - It was fine. - I was fine. I relaxed a bit. I did, I must admit, I did one thing that most people would not do, but I think it was good anyway. - Graham Richardson, who was the minister for sport at the time, come up to see us. I told him, I said, "Piss off, Graham. Where were you when we were doing all the work?" - Sarah. - You come for a photo now. You come for a photo op, but when we needed help and we needed money, where were you mate? - It wasn't just the coaching that you were famous for at the Olympics. Laura, I think you've been along to eight Olympics, is it right? - I don't be games, yes, what? - How good were you at getting tickets to other games for athletes? - I was a gun. I was a gun at mainly at changing accreditation, but I didn't go to the last Olympic games and they got caught tampering with what I used to do. They got caught one way, amateurs, pure amateurs. - What was your record, do you remember for how many athletes you got into? - I couldn't tell you, but I got a couple of hundred tickets in on four, a couple of hundred athletes in on four tickets. Which was a good record, that's probably my record. And I'll never forget, oh, the best one was going to survey in the afternoon. I don't think they did their surveillance at the last Olympics when they got caught. So I went out, this was, where was it now? - I think it was when we won the men's hockey 'cause I wanted to take them to the men's hockey and we had three busloads of people. And I went out the afternoon and they had barriers up, and I said, look, we weren't gonna get in 'cause it didn't have enough tickets and they weren't gonna let us in. I said, what we're gonna do? We're gonna line up, then I appointed three people to pull down, to move the barriers. Make sure you're all dressed in your tracksuits. Move the barriers. Once we move the barriers, and I say go, you get through those open gates as fast as you can, then disperse amongst the crowd. It was a huge success, all done on. - I should have been a, I should have been one of the equal those blocs, those. - What a criminal. (laughing) - Anyway, we had a huge team in there for that. And when the kids won, they decided they wanted to go to the Irish bar afterwards for celebration with the hockey board. Actually, Johnny Ells was at those. And so what Johnny Ells did straight away as soon as the boys won, he went down into the, where all the big officials are, the Olympic officials are, and you can get anything you like in their food, drink, whatever. And Ells said, I need a slab, I need a cart in a beer, to take down to the boys who've just, when they said you can't have that, Ells said you can't get that. Ells said, of course, I had to see this Australian shirt, T-shirt, and he pulled off his Australian shirt and swapped it for a cart in a beer. (laughing) Then he had the accreditation that took him straight down into the area with the hockey boys, and they cracked, they had a drink that night. And then Ells left to take these others to the party at Irish pub, wherever it was. And these little girls, gymnastics, the gymnastics girls, there's five of them. They said, they come, can we come? Can we come with you? I said, how old is it, 15? No, you're gonna have to go back in the bus. Well, they said, well, can we come? You know, they're at me, at me. I said, all right. Get out there, everyone's staying, and we're gonna give you a clap. I want you to perform a handstand and a roll over backwards out here for us. We're all gonna look, and if it's good, you can come. So the girls stood on their hands, they walked backwards, they did. Every gymnastics trick you could have found, then they stood up, you know, they stand up when they finished, and threw their two arms up in the air, went on either side. And I said, darn, to them, nine out of 10, back in the bus, back to the village. (laughing) So, everyone else went at a great time at the Irish pub. You know, it's rather for them. And the girls went back as young 15-year-old girl, should? I'm glad that that's the end of that story, Laurie. Nine out of 10. If they'd have got 10, they'd have been in that shannigan's bar. (laughing) How much time do you spend in the pool now? Oh, I spend a little bit of time in, 'cause I've got a bit of a passion for teaching babies. So. When you say baby, what age? You've started four months. Well, you really start earlier. You start as soon as they come home from hospital. And I've got two little twins that are alive three weeks ago today. New grandkids. New grandkids. And how am I gonna have some fun in the water with them if my daughter lets me? (laughing) How do you teach a baby to swim? Well, they come from the womb, so they're naturally, you know, early naturally. So, we get a glass of water, full cup of water. And you use verbal triggers, like you can use whatever you like. But I used to trigger ready-go, because I'm a swimming coach. So, I'll say the baby's name, Nate, ready, go. Wait one second, pour the water. And it runs over the face. Quickly get on the top of the forehead. Let it run down. So you do that half a dozen times every bath. And after about a month or so, you'll see when you say, Nate, ready, go. And you keep the rhythm exactly the same, rhythmical and constant. The baby will close their eyes on command, 'cause they're holding their breath. But also on the front of the face, there's a reflex called trigliminal reflex, with if you stimulate it and touch it by holding their breath. So that teaches them to hold their breath on command. Then at four months, when I've got good neck control, You know, they're happy and the parents are happy to handle their babies and all that. We can take them to the pool, use the same verbal trigger and submerge them. And so they're once they're fully submerged and no taking in no water and not crying, we can let them float by themselves. And so it builds from there because a lot of us from pretty basic breath control, submerge and floating and then using propulsive skills. And maybe one of those twins will go on to stand on the podium with a gold medal round their neck one day. Maybe even a silver. I would love that, but they'll be their own person and I think that's the most important thing. Whatever they do in life, I hope they love it. Because if they love it, they'll have a chance. See I've never worked a day in my life and I've said that to my kids, you find something in love, you will never, like you Sarah, you don't work. Well, it's been great hanging out, having fun with you today, Laurie, thanks for coming on to conversations. Are we finished? Sarah, I want to ask you a few questions. We can keep chatting off air. It's been great to meet you, Laurie. Thank you, same here. Podcasts and broadcasts. This is Conversations with Sarah Kanoski. I spoke to Laurie Lawrence in 2019. He won an Order of Australia in 2025 for his work in reducing childhood drownings through education and advocacy. This conversation was produced on the lands of the Gadigal, Turrable and Yagra peoples. The producer was Nicola Harrison and the executive producer was Carmel Rooney. I'm Sarah Kanoski, thanks for listening. We've been listening to a podcast of Conversations with Sarah Kanoski. For more Conversations episodes, head to ABC Listen or wherever you get your podcasts.