699: Exciting News From the Land of Sqirl with Jessica Koslow

This episode is brought to you by Rezi and American Express. Rezi is a digital platform that connects restaurants to restaurant lovers by elevating dining experiences, providing original industry content, and helping to fill some of the country's most exciting dining rooms. Because restaurants have always been more than just places to eat. The amazing world of restaurants is just a few taps away in the Rezi app and at Rezi.com. And that's what is really magical about squirrel. Squirrel is a place that is in constant evolution. We are not the same restaurant that we were in 2012 or 2020. The resilient and delicious place that we are today is because of the work that we put in then. This is Taste. I'm your host, Matt Rodbart. It was so great having Jessica Costello in the studio. Jessica is the chef and founder of Squirrel in Los Angeles, a pioneering breakfast and lunch counter that serves inventive rice bowls and jams on toast and inspired a generation of the all day cafe. In this episode, we talk a bit about Jessica's early career before going into her exceptional jam business and hearing some big news about changes at the restaurant. Also in the show, I have a fun conversation with Tiggus Reddah, chef owner of the popular Chicago Ethiopian restaurant, Demerah. Tiggus takes the Rezi questionnaire and we find out about her favorite food book, her last meal on Earth, and most importantly, her favorite Chicago pizza. I hope you enjoy this episode. Jessica Costello, welcome to This is Taste. How are you? I'm great. How are you? I'm thrilled to speak with you. We don't really know each other that well, but I've gotten to know you over the past couple of weeks because we've been chatting on the phone and a good mutual friend connected us about big news at Squirrel. It's true. There's big news. Big news in the best way possible. We'll get to that. We'll say you're launching dinner, which is incredible. We will get to that. All that amazing info. But I just want to know you're in New York and you don't make it here all the time. Where are you dining out? I used to be here a lot more and I haven't in a minute. I'm running around trying to explore as much as possible. Last night we went to Penny. It was so delicious. The fish is just perfect. The concrete oysters, which I'm like, that's not where I go. I just loved it. So really shout out to them for doing such a beautiful honest job. I'm going to Wild Cherry tomorrow. I'm going to be on New York right now. Yes, hot as hot as I'm going to see that play. It's going to be great. Oh, wonderful. You're going to pre-dinner at an theater. As you see, I broke my ankle last week. I'm doing a lot of sitting. I'm excited for that. I also read, I love his food. It's an artery moment, getting ready for it. But I do love his food. I also love the tones that he creates in his spaces. Voodoo is just such a sexy restaurant, same with Frenchette. He just has this humor that he brings into his food, like thighs and fries. It's not taking it too seriously and it's letting the diner just have a good time. I love him. I love what he does and I'm excited to see that. Welcome to Seed Restaurant. I want to go back to Penny. When you look at a comfy oyster and you say it's not your thing and you're surprised. As a chef, I want to get into that a little bit. You're ordering something that you're probably not going to like, but then you like it. How do you feel? Those are the things actually that I learn from the most. There's something on the menu that might not be exactly what I enjoy. I'm over the moon with how it turns out. My husband's the guy that has to eat the hot oyster when it comes to the table. If we have a tasting menu. We got it last night because it's a comforted schmaltz and chicken fat. It was great. It was so good. It was like, "Lebna and these cracker." Great job, guys. That's a great pairing. Are they house crackers? Some cool ones on there? They kind of seem like salty beans that are kind of seasoned, like how seasoned, but I don't know. They were making them. They were like paprika, like old-bay seasoning. That was a win. Also, the person I was with didn't really love pumpkin and bonito, but we got it. The pumpkin was actually not in my perception or my thought. It'd be chunks of pumpkin, shade, bonito. But it was the juice of pumpkin that had been reduced sitting in this bed of bonito fish. The actual meat of it. They reversed your perception. You thought it was going to be vegetable for, but it went protein-forward. That also has to take me on a tangent to talk about menus and how they're built and how you write them out. Because the perception of what I thought didn't match the actual dish. Those are the things that excite me the most when I'm completely surprised and overjoyed, which I am often. I've always wanted to ask you this. Your Instagram is great, first off. Great follow. But you've had the handle prosciutto snacks forever. What's the Genesis story of that name? It's kind of like a swift thing where my Instagram is totally, I don't have anything on there really right now. You haven't the past though. I did in the past. That's insane. You have fun follow. I wiped it. I wiped it to kind of like, I will say that I'm the person behind the squirrel Instagram, so I'm posting there. I wanted for a moment and it's still that moment to live my life and have those experiences be mine. It's been a really healthy thing for me. I'll get back there. I think with dinner coming out, I'll be posting a lot more of what is the behind the scenes, which I always find fascinating. It's like those behind the scene moments of a show that can correlate to the restaurant. But prosciutto snacks is for my dog. My dog is turning 13 and I got him from a customer who came into the restaurant with him. I was like, I really love this guy at the time. I was like, hey, I really love your restaurant. There are these spots on the plates and it was coming from, we needed a salt in the salt that goes in the water to take the calcium spots off of the water. I was like, oh, thank you so much for your feedback. I love your dog. He was like, oh, I just found him. Do you want him? Oh, my goodness. In my hospitality tone, I was like, yes, I will take your dog. I ended up in order to make a better experience. I ended up with the love of my life, which is my pup. He just lives a life of prosciutto snacks. So, prosciutto snacks is all for the dog. It makes perfect sense. It's such an LA thing. I'm sorry. I'm going to like to say, would you like my dog? I just found him and you're like, sure. That is like a New York. I feel like that does not happen as much. California rules, by the way. This is all upside positive here. I think in California, people are more willing to take a moment to talk to strangers. That you're very true. Like, see how they're doing or be like, hey, we have the same bag or cute dog. And especially squirrels, squirrels like a very dog friendly place. So, you know, that's just the genesis of monk. Let's get to squirrel. You know, I've been a fan and a customer since their first year or so. I absolutely adore the restaurant. The Surrell Pesta Rice and I mean the pancakes. I've been ordering those. And of course, the toasts with jam and dairy and beautiful parings there. And I just have been such a fan of your work. And I think you've been really head of the curve on a lot of trends that we see now everywhere. And that's a huge compliment. I hope you take it that way. I would like for our audience who maybe knows the name squirrel, but hasn't been able to make it to your restaurant in LA. How do you like to talk about it? Like, what we call it at squirrel is contemporary fine dining. And during the day, it is casual counter service, chef driven, market driven. And at night, it is service at the table, but it's still casual fine dining. And what I mean by that is like there's some heavy technique behind the food. And at the same time, it looks really simple. And it also can feel like nostalgic and something that you know and also done in a completely different way. So that is how I would describe the restaurant is like, people like, oh, you have salad sandwiches, bowls. And the answer is yes, we do. And it's provided to you in a way where you're like, how did those flavors come about? How did you make it that delicious? Let me go try it at home. And then they try it at home. And they're like, nope, can't make it. I mean, absolutely. There's so much technique. I think I draw comparisons to two Momofuku in many ways. I think when that launched in New York, it looked simple buns. Rice cakes, but as we know through the mythology of Momo, there's so much technique and really fine dining background like yourself, just like fine dining really is the root of it, but you know point of service. And I remember visiting Squirrel maybe three years ago for brunch and just, well, you're working. I mean, I remember just being, hey, you know, I don't know you, but what's up? And you know, this is part of Squirrel is you being there. It seems like it's been a really important part of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe to the chagrin of some of my team members sometimes. But I am, if I am home, I am there. It's a seven day a week thing for me. I'm still on the line on the weekends. I have started to take Saturdays off. I am on the line on Sunday. I love being on the line on the busiest day. I love seeing what the crunch points are. I love as a team that we talk about, like things that are challenging and how to like move through them. And I wouldn't be able to kind of get that feedback if I wasn't present. So yeah, I'm there every day. Where does the Surral idea come from, the rice ball? You know, that is a Trogra sorrel. No, is that a Trogra? Yeah, it's a Trogra sorrel salmon situation. Yeah, so it was my love of that dish and then wanting to try and filter that green into the rice that was coming from this really beautiful Japanese farm that farmer who had brought this grain of rice and this is a Trogra sorrel. I think that's a lot of people who are trying to make rice and make rice, right? Yeah, that's a lot of people who are trying to make rice, right? So you're challenging where it's coming from. Yeah, it is cravable. And you see greens, you're thinking, "Oh, it's going to be like a Genevise pesto." Yeah. And you're like, "Oh, of course it's going to be pesto rice." But then you're like, "Oh, oh." And then you get the little, you know, the fermented peppers and you're like, "Oh." The cool thing, too, is that by bringing this to the table, it required Coleman farmer in LA to start growing a lot more sorrel. And so he began having like a renaissance of, I mean, in LA, started to see sorrel in more places and it was great because it allowed him the opportunity to, like, grow an extensive amount for service, yeah. This episode is brought to you by Masterclass. You know how on the show we're always talking to people who've spent decades obsessing over one thing, whether it's modern Korean food, new expressions of the Jewish deli, or the perfect vampirotaco in South LA. That depth of knowledge is the thing I find endlessly fascinating. And honestly, it's a big part of why I'm into Masterclass. There are classes taught by some of the best chefs, writers, and thinkers in the world, people who've put in the work, and the lessons are short enough that I can actually fit them in. Thought leaders like Michael Lewis, Amy Poler, and Chef Gordon Ramsay and Roy Choi all teach their own Masterclasses. I've been using audio mode on my commute, and it genuinely feels like time will spend. With plans starting at $10 a month, build annually, you get unlimited access to over 200 classes. And every new membership comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee, so there's really no reason not to try it. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership. Go to masterclass.com/tastecooking. That's masterclass.com/tastecooking. I want to go back to your background in dining. You worked for Anne Cattrano in Atlanta. I didn't know that actually about you. Talk about that era of your training, of your career working with her, and what you took away from that experience. How do you talk to her before? I have talked to her not on the microphone in this show. It would be amazing, but I love Atlanta. It's one of my favorite cities in America, and I've been able to meet her. I feel like you should talk to her. More people should know her, because she, in my opinion, is the Alice Waters of the South and has brought so much to the culinary industry. Yeah, absolutely agree. There's very few people like her, and part of it is being a woman in this industry is so challenging. She has a legacy of Bacchanelia, which has been around since the 90s. Yeah, definitely. For me, I had moved to Atlanta in 2005, and I wrote her letter. It was a time when people didn't really write letters. You get emails all the time now saying, "Hey, I'd love to stop you at your restaurant. Please hire me. I don't want to work in this industry." I had just graduated from school, and at the time was baking as well, and wanted to go full-in. She invited me in, and she laughed, and she gave me a job. I worked as a pastry cook. She laughed? Oh, yeah. She was like, "What is this letter?" She laughed at the letter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She laughed at the letter. Like, "What is this letter?" Just a different time. I don't know if people just showed up back then. So the pastry chef, Carla, is still there, by the way, and still working her magic. I worked for Carla, and I worked in every department. I worked at Bocchanelia. They had a very fine dining restaurant called Canione, at the time as well. I also ended up working at Abitwa, and she also has star provisions, which is this market. And in a way, what happened there was it was the first time that I got to see. The farmer's markets don't really exist in the same capacity that they do in LA, and the farmers would come and drop everything off at the restaurant. And it was the first time that I really was able to see how things were grown, brought, and then preserved and canine. You saw some dirt on some boots in the back door, which maybe wasn't your background previously. No, absolutely not. And it was everything from full animal to pickles, to the fruits of the season. And it was our job when they came in to preserve squirrel-dee things away. And I was like, "Okay, if this is happening here, what are we doing in California where things are just. We make 80% of the produce that goes to the rest of the United States. What are we doing with that?" I had grown up with not the idea of preservation for preservation steak because we have so little. So I think her working there really is the reason why I took that back to LA. And why squirrel is kind of what it is now. And I think we have this market situation as well that feels like 2% of star provisions. But she really has a lasting way in which I see it. It's really cool that you connected that ethic in Atlanta and you take it to LA. And it's a place where of course Michael McCarty is talking to farmers in the 70s. And there's a history of working with farms. But really in like 2010, there are as many of the LA chefs who are championing the farms. And putting the names in their menus, which is crazy to think about now because we know you go to Santa Monica Farmers Market. It's a really busy place. - It's a chef hang. - Every chef is there. You can't wait to see your buddy. Literally every chef is there. And I mean, you started a squirrel as a jam company though. You didn't actually want to be a chef, per se. What just inspired you to do the jam but then be like, "Oh, I need to actually be a chef." - Yeah. Well, I think that the jam part is because of Anne. And I did start it while working at Abattoir in 2010. And kind of like, I showed her what I was doing. I asked her for feedback. And she really supported, I think the best thing a mentor and a leader can do is be excited about like you leaving. - Yeah. - You know, like your time with us is going to be really magical. And we're going to send you off into the world and hopefully a better place or a great place. And you're going to go do great things. And like, that's what you want from your mentor. - Yeah. - You know. So that is why I started squirrel. And I didn't just preserve things at that restaurant. Like, I was working in pastry. So that was my background. And look, I found this place, this 800 square foot space and virtual village off of Craigslist. I paid $10,000 in key money. - That's what you paid for that spot? - Yeah. - Wow. Amazing. - Yeah, it was great. - Yeah. I mean, now that Ibrid to get like, "Budanoki there," you've got like, you know, a buzzy neighborhood of restaurants. - Yeah. No, we've got Budanoki and Courage and food. - Courage to, of course, Courage. - Yeah. - All the lines. - All the lines. - And that's delicious. - Yeah. - And yeah, so that space was, I was doing jam out of there at the time. And I had a, I was teaching classes. I also, like, I was doing a little wholesale for Nancy Silverton. She had like a burger joint. So I was doing like her ferments and jams and pickles. But the majority was teaching classes. And, you know, like, this was based on the money that I had saved up to do this. And the person doing my numbers was like, "This isn't, you cannot make this work." And I was at the farmer's market too. Like, I was trying everything. I was a little octopus trying to have like a jam business, like, be successful. And the account was like, "You just, you won't, you won't last till the end of the year." - Wow. - And at that time, I was like, "Okay, well, if I do open, it makes sense to have it be breakfast and lunch." Because that is the, it like the, sorry, the narrative of that breakfast and lunch from jam makes the most sense. But I don't have any sort of front of house experience. And especially when it comes to coffee. And at the same time, Charles Babinski, who's now in Australia doing great things. And Kyle, we're launching Go Get 'em Tiger. - At the time of GMB. - GMB, legendary, grand sizzle market, pioneers, and especially coffee. - Yeah. - So you and Charles, you got, Charles, - Charles, - showed you some moves. - So they opened, no. But like, when we opened Squirrel, it was them in the front of the house. - No shit. - Yeah. - So they were doing GMB pop-up? - Oh, they were doing GMB pop-up at the front of house. - I know. - They did all the coffee. - That's-- - They did all the front of house service. And we did all the back. - And I think that it was a magical moment where like, people came to support us all as a collective. And that lasted for as long as they were getting their other locations. They had like one on large bond and one opening grand central market. - Yeah, yeah. - Open. And then by that time, I had enough experience to kind of like transition the cafe portion. Now, who's running the bar? Is this guy, his name is John Lamberton, and he was Charles, like, right hand. - Yeah. - So I have this really incredible bar team now. But at the time, everyone in the space was doing their art. - Yeah. - And it was, yeah. - A real, I mean, a true collaboration. - It was, yeah. - Like the fact that you're doing your work with the firm ends and with the ramping up the menu with toast and then eventually the rice bowls. But then you've got GMB kind of starting out as well. Really magical period. - 2012, October. - What a pairing too. And like this is like ahead of the curve. Like people, especially coffee and L.A. was certainly, it has a history. But people aren't thinking about the cold drinks they're doing at GMB. And then of course, these toasts. Again, how many times have you seen this concept in the world? And you can pinpoint L.A. 2012 as a place where it really started. How do you feel about that legacy? - I mean, I'll get things all the time there. Like, look at what they're doing, what's world stirring. And I'm like, great. - I love it. I love that attitude. - And we're not, and that's not who we are today. And I'm always honored when I, like, I don't know, there was a coffee place. I was like, I had a baker's latte at squirrel. And so we're trying to do it at this coffee shop here in Brooklyn. Awesome. Go for it. - Yeah, I mean, that is the attitude. Amitation is the highest form of flattery. Some people say that lawyers may disagree. But I think the ethic of a real creative and a creator is like, well, we got to figure out the next thing. - Yeah, my skill is that I am always in evolution. - Exactly. - And that, so someone trying something is great. - Yeah, I know. So Jessica, you are, you know, things are going well. I mean, you are, you're profilizing, you're getting on lists. You're certainly becoming a leader in food. You're still working on these shifts. I mean, squirrels is busy. It's ever 2020 is here. You know, pandemic happens. Crazy times everywhere. And there's a bump in the road, a significant one. And I had to have you on to ask you about this moment where there was mold in the jam. And it became a meme. And we, I do not need to get into, like, the details. You can tell me them, but, like, real mitigating this. But given the five years that has kind of happened since this moment and time to reflect, you know, where are you at right now with this? - Well, I will say that squirrel is and was a magical place. And that in mid 2020, we went through a reckoning based on, honestly, my poor leadership. And I had to sit with it. And, yeah, it's really hard to talk about. - Yeah, I know. - And I had to watch the team and the restaurant grapple with my choices. And it was devastating. And I could have gone a couple of ways. I could have closed the doors and hidden and left the culinary world. Or I could have shown up for the team and myself and the restaurant involved. And that's what we did. And the resilient and delicious place that we are today is because of the work that we put in then. And while I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone, we went through the fire. And we forged through it a better version of ourselves. And can I just talk about where we are today? - Yeah. - And we make more jam now than we've ever made. We make about 40,000 jars a year, all handmade. And we're in more stores than we've ever been in. We are USDA organic certified. And that process we did two years ago. And you can only do it when you're under great note-taking inspections and that it's made an organic food process, a PFR. - A great cost and time to you. - Yeah, but in a way necessary in order to, I think necessary for us to be accountable, necessary. And like, honestly, very challenging to do for a small business like ourselves. And, you know, a beautiful thing to do. But on top of it, we make jam for a lot of our farmers. And that has been a huge highlight for us, which is making a product from their product that can, they can sell and make revenue from not just from their produce. - Which is just a great service to a farmer. - Who needs that extra revenue. - Yeah. - Needs it. Like, it's required to make the farm work. - We have a farm that we work with that they have their own cafe. So we manufacture the product also for their cafe. And again, like that has been great. But on top of the jams, you know, like the culture of the team is really special. Like there's like an ethos of kindness that's always been there and is like very prevalent right now and how we communicate and talk to each other. And the food is great. And so that's where we are today and where we're going is dinner. - I mean, I think the fact that you just, you didn't shutter and you preserved. It makes it a stronger business. I just want to go back one more question, you know. - Yeah. - When there's mold on the jam and you swiftly make the changes, but it's still there. I'm just going to say there was a level of piling on to the criticism that felt. I mean, it was of course unmerited, but it felt almost vicious. And I think the fact that your woman has certainly something to do with it, that's my assumption. I mean, how do you feel looking back five years at that period and just the way these memes would happen? I mean, I really have that. - I mean, someone was just squirrel jam for Halloween and it was like a meme. - Like 20, like this year? - 2025. Yeah, like a few days ago. - And you're not laughing at it either. I mean, this is not really, I mean, you're positive and you're launching dinner, but like that still hurts in must. - It's more than I think about the team. - Yeah. - I have grown like a very tough skin where I feel like I can take anything and I can look at that time and take what was important out of it and also see the things that I should put in this category and the things that needed to put in that category. When I see these things, I think more about them and how to make sure that we continue to be the best versions of ourselves so we don't go through anything like that again. So we are a safe place. But you know, I won't be able to control people's kind of like mowiness. And that is something that I had to learn is just like, you see that and you just go, okay, well, we're still doing great work. And you know, find the pride and passion and like the work that we're doing because the work is really hard. I don't know too many people, restaurant tours, places that are actually manufacturing their own product and it can be messy. Well, not just manufacturing because you know, sometimes restaurants have like a little shop or it's gifts for guests and they have a small production but you've mentioned the squirrel jam is in more stores than ever. And this is like a real CPG company in addition to running this business, this restaurant and you've got double PNLs going. I want to hear a little bit about the jams that you're selling. I mean, I love them and you pick them up. You know, you've got these wild flavor combinations and the quality is high. Yeah, you know, as we were talking about like being able to have 15 years of relationships with farmers has allowed me access to just like the most delightful and delicious fruit varieties. And so a lot of times the flavors that come out are flavors based around moments. And there was like Santa Rosa plum and time flowering is a moment. Or we were doing these collaborations where you know, we got these apricots and sobacha and we just we put them together because Zach from Kettle had given me a note about those two flavors working well together and so I tested it out. So some of it is like fun collaboration and others like timestamps but all in honor of a moment whether it be like that perfect time that that plum is ready or you know, the time flowering. I mean, I think of you. I think of Malcolm Livingston the second. Yeah, I love him. Who is who I love them to and I think both of your pastry backgrounds just makes the CPG extension so much better and exciting. I love his. Can we give August a shout out right now? No, we've got to give August a shout out. I mean, I don't know where you find it here in New York. I know. Unless he comes and makes something. I think it's when he rolls in with a cooler and he's dropping it. But of course you can get them at Kettle, that Kettle I got to try that recently and it was amazing. In LA? Yeah, in LA. I love that. But I think there's something about having a pastry chef do a product like a jam or a handheld. It's exceptional. Yeah, and I do love the idea that it can live outside of the four walls of the restaurant. Yeah, totally. And it's something that you can take home as an extension of what we do. And the preservation aspect of fruit and that it can like live a joyful life in the morning. It's like, it's great. Well, I want to move on to dinner and talk about some details. I think we're going to time dropping this release out a little drum roll. By dropping this release around the time you will be opening and maybe a slightly ahead of time and maybe after you open. But reservations will be open. And I love that you're a quote-unquote building in public. I can't believe I just said that with your sub-stack. I think you're doing some cool testing. I saw a chicken liver with a torn fried bread. You're thinking about celery butter, a gorgeous shot there. You're playing around with tartar. I saw a pan roasted cabbage. You know, you're kind of playing around with some of this. I'm not giving you the whole image. You're giving you little. You don't need the trailers. You know, like cover reveal basically. But Jessica, tell me about the menu. I mean, what's dinner at Swell? I never sent you the menu. You never did. It's all good. It's all good. Tell me about it. It is the question that I get asked most because people are thinking it should be, oh, is this just like Swell during the day? The answer is no. It's not. It's full service at night. And the food feels very bistro because that is the feeling of the space. But a bistro in LA. And when I say that, I also mean in reference truly to the heritage of all of us, the team that's there. This isn't Jessica has a, like my mom's side is British. So I have a lot of like British and Jewish kind of like tones that come into the food. But our CDC and Sue, one is like Mexican. Indian, the other is, I mean, he's from Texas, but also has that as his background. And so there's a lot of flavors from their nostalgia that kind of float into this like bistro. And that's the goal of squirrel always, which is like make the food that is most delicious and flavorful and nostalgic to you because that is what will come out the best on the other side. And so, yes, is there like a beet filled anulotti that is in this kind of like Polish, like beet borch. Borch, yeah, I was thinking about that. Borch, yeah. Like reference. And when you bite into the pasta, it like spews this like caramelized onion beet situation, which is like- What's the flour for the pasta? Oh, it's like a double, double, double, but there is also pasta where beet has been folded into it. So I don't know if you saw those like kind of fun. The pasta itself is like- The ribbons, yeah. They're just- They're kind of like streaked in your dreams of fun experiments. So there's some fun, there's some fun and lots of labor involved in it. The chicken liver that you saw is in this kind of like in a mold with the celery butter is on top. And then when you smear it onto the bread, it like is bicolored. And it's a very cool visual cue, but also something that I grew up and I know all of the team grew up in different ways, like eating like on holidays, you know. But not in this- Not in this aesthetic. No, celery butter, that's amazing. Yeah. It's a very, I mean the color of course just popped right out of the contrast. So we have things like that. We have a chicken that's in like that is Koji roasted that honest and it has like an anchovy jus and tons of bread, crouton. I mean it's so delicious. I know chickens like everyone, you know, to the chagrin of the culinary world, the chicken is- No apologies, need it for chicken. No, chicken is delicious and it is even more so now. And then we have this steak with this kind of like to bully Minnionette and like braised chippellinis and like a, you know, some sort of sausage takes four days to make. And it's just the food is honest, but the goal always is craveable. Like I want you to come- I want you to remember. Oh yeah. Like how often do you go to a restaurant and like you actually remember the dishes that you have? I mean yeah, I know it's this soror rice bowl at Squirrel. Yeah. You remember it, you know, it's definitely- You have the DNA to come to do this. And when people come, they're like, oh yeah, I was here like four years ago and I was like, what do you have? And they're like, oh, I don't really remember. I'm like, no, I didn't do my job. My job is for you to remember. Like your palate is like, I need that again. So that is, you know, that is like the foundation of the menu, but it feels very bistro and like what we were saying about AM, where, oh yeah, what squirrel salad sandwich is bulls? And you could see the same thing like a chicken, a steak, some potatoes, like, but is it? No, is it like an order of the full menu kind of menu or are they going to be 20 plus menu items? There's 20 plus menu items. Oh, I like that. I appreciate that. I mean, yes, yes and no, right? Like there is something, I just went to this place in Paris called Restaurant Dandelion, which also deserves a shout out. And it has like nine items on it and you can order all of them and it was so delicious. It was so good. Yeah. And I will tell everyone hands down to go there and I'm like, man, I want more options. It's tough hang when you have under 10 menu items. I think especially if you have a group, it just can be just not like customer centered. Yeah. It's a little more chef centered that menu construction. Yeah. I also get it, like maybe your kitchen small, maybe you're trying to be, make sure that your food goes out quickly and like efficiently. When you have more items, it can get messy. Yeah, it can. I get it all. So booking on Rezzi. So reservations. What's the story with that? Follow the sub stack and we'll let you know. First, when they come out, I have a feeling like reservations beginning of, we'll kind of soft launch somewhere in early December. Okay. And we're shooting for December this year. December opening. Yeah. But maybe it's a little later. I think we're in December now. If we're recording this in November, but we will run it in December. Oh, thank you. It's a magic of podcasts. Oh, cool. Magic of podcasts. Beverage. Yes. Because I feel beverage. Oh, yeah, we didn't talk about this. We can't forget about beverage because, you know, LA's beverage scene to me is extremely exciting. Oh, tell me why. Tell me what you got. El Gondol is not centered always. It is centered in beautiful places. There's great wine shops and great beverage service and cocktail bars. But LA is a town that is probably drinking less than any major American city right now currently for a lot of reasons. So while I know you have a full bar and there'll be a big bar program and I love to hear about it, you're probably thinking about some other things too in the end. Which interests me the most. Yeah. Have you been to Kato? Of course, Austin's amazing. He's been on the show. He's killing it. Yeah. Maybe she drinks that at Squirrel. He's a partner at Kato. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I also love John. And I wouldn't. Yeah, no, we are we are kidding here. That's super inside right there. No, but let's just go back to this. Yeah. If you all need to go to one place for drinking in LA, what I would suggest going to the bar at Kato. Kato is a very expensive and beautiful tasting menu. It was just there for my birthday. I love what they're doing. The bar program at Kato is next level. Best, best bar program I've had anywhere in the United States. And part of it is because his focus on NA, right? And it's not just like it was like the New York Times, like list that came out that was like less of and so many people were like. Like give me, I don't know, I feel like it was Kim Cybers and it was like, I want less, you know, like fake Nagroney. Yeah. And give me more NA that's like dynamic and interesting, right? And that is true. That is something that I believe in, which is like how do we make a very delicious NA program? And we already have, like we have a water key for that's on draft that we do. We have a frozen machine that we have an NA coming out of right now. Oh great. And would we like to do like some sort of other NA's? Yes. And you know, like we just hired this, we hired a bar manager for Squirrel and she's coming from Kumiko in Chicago where she was the head bartender there and they won a beard for a bar program. And if I just like back up a second, Squirrel didn't get their liquor license till the day before Christmas of last year. And that's really what was stopping us from opening even like considering a dinner program was that we, I knew that in order to like do the experience right, we needed the full experience. Whether it's NA or whether it's not like we needed that full experience. So now that we do have that bar program where we have the license, having her on to like build that out is going to be very exciting. I mean, I just think with your connection with the farms, having an incredible lineup of shrubs and drinking vinegars and just going in that direction, which incites me tremendously. We already had that too. And yeah, I agree. I think that is what really compels me when I'm drinking NA and LA. I think Austin's doing amazing work with like teas and adding body through, you know, steeping teas into other liquids. That's cool too. There's many ways you can go in a, before we get to taste check, you might have thought I forgot about this question. I prepped for it. You worked on American Idol. It's on your resume. All right, Jessica, tell me about working on this show. Do I have to? No, I, exactly. No, it's fun. I am the cool thing. So I left Anne in 2007. I went back and worked with her in 2010. But I moved to New York here. It's beautiful city. Yeah. And I ended up getting a job because of my degree at Fox, at News Corp. And I became a producer for American Idol. And it was all digital production. So like all the videos behind the scenes. I was like a fish out of water. You know, you kind of like you stink or swim and I swim. And the thing that I learned that I brought to, I would say the restaurant is like, when you are a producer, you are bringing all these different components together to turn the lights on every day to like make the video happen. And so I was able to take that work and put it into squirrel. And I was able to do that kind of like bringing everyone together to set the scene for the day. But working on the show, you know, I voted. I called in. You called in. So were you working like the audition lines out in like a Jersey mall and doing those shoots? No, no. I was doing like top 10 shoots for, that was like behind the scenes of the top 10 for Coca-Cola. Oh right, so you do like brand new stuff, but you would like, you would get like a little, so you were on set during the actual, the filming of these competitions and you would grab one of the contestants and with a coconut hand. We had a, we had a you. We had a person that would go and speak to them. I was always behind this. You were, you were producing it. Yeah. I mean, wild job, but clearly connected to project management. Yeah. Yeah. Wild job. On this is Tase, we have a guess about the discerning taste. So the closest interview is a little rapid fire fast and furious taste check. Are you ready? Yes, but can I not just answer in one word, but maybe a few. That's 10 Zivita the mode here. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I did enough. Okay. Quick story is that like I hated fruit growing up and this is why I do what I do because I would take fruit and spit them out as a little kid. And turning going to the pastry world was my way of like turning fruit into something that I would eat. Now the way that I eat fruit is in small tiny bites to check the brightness of their acidity because I like a high acid fruit to go along with the sugar or you know the preservation that we add to it. So I love a set suma plum. I love a blend. I'm apricot something that tastes like it's from the backyard. Things I don't like because I like commodity bananas commodity melons things that just stink up a room like you might come for me but someone eating a banana on a flight is like it's malicious. Why are you doing that to us? It has a fray of bouquet so to speak. Yeah. It's not not great. I know everyone loves them. I get memes from my friends about them. So I look forward to getting more. The worst vegetable. Kind of like for a similar reason as a banana or commodity melon like green bell pepper. Yeah. They just take over. They take over the item the meal you're creating instead of bringing harmony. Yeah. It's like so vegetal. Yeah. It's like glue. Why? I'm not sure or something. What's yours? What do you hate? My worst vegetable. I'm these days I'm thinking like any summer squash. I mean that camp too. It's too, it's their hard to cook. They're hard to cook. I was exactly what I was saying. They're hard to do. And I find myself putting like a lot of pecorino on it and pepper and like making it work I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. I feel like you give me a look like that pairing is is is bad. No, that pairing's great. That's an honest pairing. No, I'm like I'm not self conscious at all. I was like, okay, am I doing it right? Because I think pecorino pepper works. Yeah. It's a hard thing for me. All right, let's do what is your typical breakfast? It's just typical. I like a piece of toast with some nut butter and jam. Why not? I mean after this many years I still eat the food at the restaurant. It's like I eat it every day. Why would you not? Yeah. The best. That's your food. Yeah. I have a lot. Sure. I have a lot. I love like a creme caramel, especially from Oto Fuku and LA. Yeah. I love a lemon tart. Josh Nyland does the best version at his restaurant in Sydney. The crust is so thin. I love a mullvipudding cake. Like that custard caramelized, like filling, like, like, like, trickle tart. And you know, my desert, I, you know, my, my last meal food is always ice cream. So, you know, we talked about zero, Zen zero in Korea. Yeah, the soul, yeah. And shout out to Zen zero in Korea for, in Seoul for having just like such delicious, unique flavors. Yeah. Seasonal. Yeah. Like a perfect ice cream. I'm, I'm done. I feel like Akira Kudo gave me that rack. I think that's where that came from originally. That makes sense. That's right. Makes sense. I'm pretty sure that's when it, but it's in Korea world. We have a nice little section about it. All right. Shout out to Korea world. Shout out. Thank you. All right. A restaurant you wish you could bring back from the dead. I want to know yours. Tell me yours first. Oh my God. Because I hope it's not mine. Turning the, I still want to go to Kate's joint again. Okay. What's that? One restaurant opened between like 95 and closed and like probably 10 or 12 and a funky place. I remember like going to CMJ and going there and hanging afterwards and like to me that it's just more like that era and that vibe. It was less about the food. Thank you for asking me. I guess I haven't said that in a while. I probably have it said. People should be asking you questions. You have your, your knowledge is deep. Thanks Jessica. Yours as well. So what is yours? So you're such a, you're such an East Coast New Yorker answer in mine such a West Coast. Yeah. Angelino answer. Mine is Susanne Goen's Luke. Oh, yeah. And that restaurant is in this gorgeous, beautiful building. And the food like it was one of those places where you got an amuse like you got like Casual Toronto olives and almonds at the table as a gift and like what a, what a kind gesture that is rare at restaurants these days. And the food was just always seasonal. She would have these Sunday suppers that were legendary. Her book, by the way Sunday supper is a terrific cookbook. It's a, like people should own that as like a foundational cookbook. And and it was just like the room, the, the, the, it was just such a joyful place. Like I went there when I graduated high school when I was 18. I mean, I had these moments where like I would look, I'm from Long Beach, a little south and we'd come up to LA and it was kind of like the place we would go in LA. I love that ice. What a dream. I still make the Luke Brussels sprouts with panchetta and balsamic reduction for Thanksgiving. Every year was featured in New York Times in 2003, 2004 or on then and I still to this day. It's my go to. I feel like at the time, you know, now it's like, oh, you're doing Brussels rolls big in like cool me too. But then you're like, oh, legendary. And you just have to take yourself back to these moments of like where things kind of originated from and that that's one. Yeah. When you're craving fast food, where are you going? Where do you think I go? I mean, if you're going to say in and out likely, but you're also possibly going to say, um, Del Taco or you're maybe going to go. Wow, you're going, you went, I like, I like that you were Del Taco. I know you're like, you're a wincing at that answer. Yeah. No, uh, those are my guesses. Uh, are you a McDonald's person? No, my husband is my husband's wife man. Yeah, what's his wife man? He might that might be his answer. What's yours? I mean, obviously mine is in and out. Like, there is nothing better than that griddled bun. Yeah. And again, like, this is very sexy. I love Ron and Son. That burger I do. Um, and just for crunch and the lettuce for crunch is just so it is a great burger. I also, I mean, you weren't far off. Like, I have a nostalgia for Taco Bell for the cinnamon twists and like the bean, like I would get that. Be burrito. Yeah. Yeah, I would get that as a kid. And I also have like the breakfast sandwich from Jack in the box, um, from like my, ooh, from my like high school rave days. So I don't know. I, you know, a different, different thing for different moments of my life. But if it was just one is like in and out, like, right or die. Yeah. I love that. I mean, LA is where fast food was, was born in where it thrives. I mean, it's car culture, right? Car culture. How do you get into that? Couple more. Your favorite city outside America to visit for food. I mean, gosh, every, every place is always a curious space. Look, I always, I always go back to Paris and London. I think that like, I'm always looking for food that is willing to take risks on nostalgic or like familiar dishes. So I find that Paris and London do the best job of like exploring like traditional meats, like new mindset, um, love Tokyo, love going soul. Yeah. You give us a lot. Yeah. You give us a lot. Just, you know, I could just keep going. You go on. It's unfair. Just go travel. Go travel. Yeah. You'll learn something. You'll, you'll be delighted no matter where you go. That's one of your favorite sandwich. These are good questions. I love the Hummel Bear at Shaling in Paris. I love the little egg sando and the prosciutto with chiso that come out of camelback in Tokyo. I don't know if you've ever been there. No. But that little egg sando, uh, camelback is, is so Japanese and just like, it's perfect like the bread is perfect. The egg is done so well. Like those are the two breakfast and lunch. Jessica Caslow, what a fun conversation. Thank you so much for joining us this is Tast. Thank you so much for having me. Tickets Reddow, welcome to this is Tast. How are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. How are you? I'm great. I mean, I'm excited to hear all about your, your life. We're doing the Rezzy questionnaires. So lots of great questions. But first, tell me a little bit about your restaurant, Chicago, D'Amera. You've been open nearly 20 years. I mean, that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. We've been open 18 years. I think we're celebrating this week of 18 years. Um, I mean, it's been up and down like, you know, the restaurant business is never easy. But it's what I'd love to do and we keep coming back and staying strong. And for that, we are like Chicago separate restaurant. But, uh, yeah, we opened 2007. The Cubs hadn't won a World Series yet. Right. It's been so many years. Um, but like, what are, tell us a little bit about your cuisine and a little bit about, I mean, 18 years that's such, you know, staying power. I mean, what are some of the most popular dishes? We do like authentic Ethiopian. So everything is with the Jara, which is our flat bread or like almost eaten salad. We eat it with everything. But I think the most popular is D'Amera Saab, which is like we created in the beginning and the menu where we wanted people to never had the food. They can try many, a few items versus one menu item. So this is when you walk in like people, D'Amera. So we get to try three veggies, three meat. And that became like what people wanted to do and like 70 to 80% of our orders that so that just became our people. Wow. I mean, I mean, when you opened up in Chicago, what was Ethiopian cuisine known that well? Yeah. Like especially in the north side that you know, there was, I think like in Rikli field, uh, was about four or five restaurants and then they start closing and then I went a little bit north like to Ajoaadur and uptown. So it's been a concentrated on one area, but yeah, it's been a route. Well, well, to get started, are you ready to take the Rezi questionnaire? Sure. Sure. Okay. Favorite thing you have ever cooked? I was recently I did, uh, we called it like Helvet and Halibut. Halibut. So Halibut is like, um, it's Fava beans, radlentils and shunugreek grounded in mate. And then when you whip it, it gets foamy. And then we have the silsey, which is onion, garlic ginger and bar butter. So it has like, you have this foamy with something spicy and we put the Halibut fish on top of it. And then we put like our clarified butter and cherry tomato, like sizzled with like the butter and lemon and things like that. It was amazing. What a beautiful pairing. I mean, I'm loving that. Your favorite meal from childhood? Oh, it has to be Darwad, like our national dish. Uh, it was a hot boy leg in an jar. Yeah, Darwad. If you, if it's good, it's, there's nothing better. Oh my gosh. Yeah. A kitchen tool or equipment you couldn't live without. Like a good pat, you know, uh, to make our sauces, you need like, our sauce cooking. Yeah. So you need like, like, really thick, but I'm, uh, pat. A good, a good sturdy pot that can cook those sauces. Yeah. Yes. All right. Your favorite cookbook? I'm reading this, uh, American, uh, young American chef by Kowami. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm reading it right now. So I'm loving it. But, uh, that's tough one. There are so many good ones. That's a great one. This is a big one. Your favorite pizza in Chicago. Well, I'm going to be in travel. Um, I love it. I love the dish, but I've been like, uh, loving the fire burning 500 to 800. Are you a politician? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is there a favorite restaurant that you go to for that pizza? No, it's whatever I find it. That's been like my favorite pizza right now. Yeah. Um, what restaurant industry person do you admire the most? I think, um, my friend, Chef Sarah, not her. Uh, she's about as like two times chimispired award, but she does also so many humanitarian watches. The co founder of a green city market, uh, and co founder of Chicago Chef's Cook, which is supports like chefs vision of, of nonprofits. So that's a great, great answer. What's, what's been the greatest restaurant experience of your life so far? Um, I think so many, but, uh, gag on in DC. Yeah. Is that good? Like, yeah, he gets back there. What was, what was so great about that? I think it's just like the perfect fusion of like Caribbean and African food, but also just oh my god, the use of the ingredients. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your greatest professional achievement. I think opening up a second location. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, uh, the way I wanted to open it, uh, it's going to be in bronze film. Um, we're being in 2026 and it's going to have 5,000 square foot kitchen, which I'm like, can't wait for it. Uh, and a bit for restaurant and rooftop. So that would be it. Oh, with a rooftop too. Yeah. Yeah. I love this. This is great. Is it meant you're going to be the same at the Mara or new, new name? We're going to keep the authentic Ethiopian food, but we'll also have small plates that we're playing around like in a fusion food. So exciting. Yeah. It is. The little dish best describes your personality. I think we have one that is, I like the beats. Uh, it has cinnamon, it has cardamom, it has onion garlic. So just like very not one thing, but many things. Yeah. And that's you. That's your personal. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what is your wish for the restaurant industry? Uh, I think to get like, you know, to be back to where like, it's always been tough, but it's just getting harder and harder. Uh, but where we find where it works for everyone for the team, for the owners, for the chefs, it was really hard to me and profitable because, um, restaurant is the toughest business. And like everyone has been working hard, but it's really been tough on chefs, owners and the team. So like something we found some way without our waste. How do you, how do you get through your day then with all these challenges? Oh, like, you know, I stay positive. Talking with people in the industry and like sharing notes and maybe having a drink at the end of a long day with your friends. Yeah. Absolutely. If you could eat through a city for a day, where would you go? Chicago. Chicago is wonderful. I love that answer. Okay. Take me through that day. If you could go to a couple places, you're not working at your day off. Uh, I think I would go like, you know, it's, there's so many beautiful restaurants in Chicago. It just be like, you know, it's like, you know, it's a Mexican restaurant. It's an Italian, it's a Ticopian. It's a farm to table. Like, I just like kind of have one meal or sample everywhere. So yeah, I love that. Yeah. The one thing you can't resist splurging on when you go out for dinner. I think good meal. Like, I want to taste everything. Like if I go out, I like, I want to taste everything. Yeah. Is there one dish though that you're like, I have to order that? It's like my splurge. If I go to a restaurant, that isn't that wouldn't order. Yeah. Like if I go to that, like, I'll order it. Okay. I see. I see. You go in with the plan. Yeah. I go out and look at that. What do you value most in restaurants? I think the people. Yeah. The people like it's really pretty awesome. It's really hard. Stressful job. But like people come together. Like, especially like you know, like being there for a judge or the people. Last one. It's your last meal on earth. What are you eating? Last stop. But I think it's going to be don't know what. It has to be that's your favorite dish. How do you serve like when you have to do a lot? What's the whole table looking like? Like, yeah. So like don't know it. By the way, it takes like, if it's back, if you do it right, 68 hours to cook, like a coconut and it's caramelizing that burper, right? But like you have, the root is like this. Like I use African hench. You can just be in suit for a while. Yeah. And we have like corn, boiled egg and cheese like our eye and some veggies. So I like veggies. I add veggies to it. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the Rezzy question. It has been so fun speaking with you. Thank you. [MUSIC] This is Taste is hosted and produced by Eliza Barbonal and me Matt Rodbar. The show is edited by lead producer Clayton Gumburt and supervised by Pat Stango, director of Media Production and Development at Penguin Random House. Thanks to Shalia Harris and the production team at Penguin Random House. Theme music by Steve Raidell. Episode portraits by Luis Zergon Pomeroy, local design by Ellie Scurza and Ian Dingham. Visit TasteOnline at tastecooking.com and make sure to subscribe to our newsletter to keep updated on all cool things in the world of taste. [MUSIC]