Ex-Secret Service Agent Warns the Next 9/11 Won’t Be Planes

I had one guy, he used to set animals on fire. Can you share something without giving a name? You don't know people. Everybody thinks they know people. Now that we want to, you don't really know human beings. I started off NYPD, went to the United States Secret Service, and then I protected all the different presidents. This is a person you're going to give a gun to. Then you're going to put them in the White House with the most powerful person in the world who's around the other most powerful people in the world. You really, really, really have to be careful who you let in. And so someone like myself would come in and try to get either more information or a confession. From all the presidents you work with, Bush Sr., GW, Obama, Ford, you know, Clinton, what are the future threats? I will not, I can't answer that. And here's why. It's crazy to me. Is it because of what? Like the. It's naive, it is foolish, we are not living in reality, and this is why we are dealing with many of the issues we have now. You didn't give me the answer. If they did 9-11, what could the threat look like from the enemy? Yeah, there's things that you don't see. Like what? I can't tell you. I can't tell you. I can't tell you. I can't tell you. I can't tell you. The way you help me understand how to pronounce it, I love it. Evy like Chevy. But it's not every day you talk to somebody that was Secret Service for 13 years, protecting a handful of presidents, right? We have the two Bushes, the father and the son. Clinton, I think, is who you started off with. And then also Obama, in some sense, with Michelle and President Ford as well, which is what a crazy story you got there. But there's a lot of things we're going to be talking about today. Some of this stuff is current events. There was a Secret Service head that spoke to 60 Minutes this weekend, which I'm sure you watched as well. If you haven't, I got some questions there for you. Because he said threats are up 40% year over year. And he also said something about drones, how with drones, we don't know how to protect ourselves, which I don't know if that's a good idea to say that. But I got five words I want to go through with you in today's podcast. One is justification. The other one is consequences. Three is confirmation bias. The other one is vulnerability. And last but not least is discernment. How do we distinguish between trustworthy people and those who are the dangerous ones? And I got a few cases I want to bring up to you, and we're going to analyze together. But if you don't mind, for the audience that doesn't know you, maybe share a little bit about your background. Sure. So thank you for having me. I'm really happy to be here with my fellow Armenian. I'm not Armenian, but. Aunt, that great aunt. What's her name, by the way? Azniv. Azniv. Azniv, much love to you. So much love to the Armenian community. I started off. I started off NYPD, very, very short time there. I went to the United States Secret Service, became a special agent. And in the U.S. Secret Service, I started under the Clinton administration, and then I protected all the different presidents. The president that I had full-time was Barack Obama, because the way it works is you'll have somebody full-time, which means 24-7. And then. But you can't do that, though. Your whole career, you burn out. You're only allowed to do it for a window of time. And then you go out into the field, which means you help protect all the other presidents, but a lot of folks don't know that U.S. Secret Service works criminal investigations. So they're called a dual-mission agency, so protection, and then criminal investigations, financial institution fraud, bank fraud, counterfeit money, credit card fraud, any online. They have the first cyber task force was called the Electronic Crimes Task Force. It was theirs. Most people don't know that, by the way. They don't know it. And what's interesting is the United States Secret Service is one of the oldest law enforcement agencies. Marshalls is first because they needed to catch fugitives. Then U.S. Secret Service came. Abraham Lincoln created U.S. Secret Service April 14th, 1865, the day he was assassinated. He created the U.S. Secret Service to fight counterfeit money because a third of the money in the United States of America was counterfeit, funny money. So it was destroying the economy. So he created it. The day he was assassinated? And he signed, created the Secret Service. What a crazy fact. It is, it is. Years later, many years later, they picked up protection because that's what they were doing. And then U.S. presidents were either getting, there was attempted assassinations or assassinations, and then they started doing protection. That's how they work. But going back to that, so I work criminal investigations, protection. I was a polygraph examiner, an interviewer for them. So I did their difficult interviews, interrogations. There was only about 30 of us in that unit. So it's a really specialized training. Probably the best in the world. I have to give it to them. Like they did a really good job training us. And so you also do the hiring, the HR, the special agents have to take Polly's. And then I did terrorism interviews either here or overseas. And then we would also help local police departments in the United States with their most difficult cases. So sometimes these departments, they didn't have the resources to do certain things where they'd have a case and say, we think he did it. We don't have evidence. Can you talk to him? So I did that a number of years. And then fast forward today, I work at NBC. I'm their law enforcement analyst. So I cover national security, crime, criminal justice. So basically anytime there's a shooting or an incident or an attack, I go on air and I discuss it. So I cover that at NBC studios at 30 Rock. So when you say they're the best and there was only 30 of them, what did the training look like with the interrogation that makes them the best? So there's different polygraph schools, but the one that they send us to, it's a department of defense, Fort Jackson. So you train with the military. Interesting. So are you there for, we were there for a few months and you are there. It's us, FBI, CIA, and then some other, you know, NSA folks. And we do training. So it's, I'll give you an example. Like you have to study biology. So if you go to college, you'll have a semester of biology there. They give you a week of biology and you have a midterm and final. Like they literally give you the text. And I remember getting it thinking they're joking. There's no way this is going to be an open. Book test. Cause they're like, you have a final at the end of the week on this entire text. And I was like, they're nuts. And then sure enough, we were all like taking wagers like, oh, it's going to be open book. They're just going to be like, Hey, surprise, just kidding. Sure enough, you show up with the book. And they're like, no, no, put the book away. You're taking your test. There's no open book. And so you really had to consume content. I mean, they even teach you about pharmacology. So when somebody takes certain substances, what does that do to the body and to the mind? Because the polygraph, the polygraph looks at the body. So it was really a really intense school. And then you're training every day. You're interviewing people. And we would interview the military recruits. It was typically the ones that we're going to send home. They were unfit for duty. So we would interview them on different things and practice interviews and polygraphs on what year were you at the four Jackson? I think I was 2004. I think. Okay. Got it. I was there at 97 for Jackson. I was there for about a year. I was there at four Jackson. When I was the military guys joining the army and AIT. I was there. Yeah. Yeah. 97. That's where you go for it. That's where they bring the military guys for training. Basic training. Yes. That's what they did. And I was there. Now we have to say 30 years ago, which is crazy. 29 years ago. Well, thank you for your service. thank you as well for yours as well. Yeah. So let's go into that. So this sermon, I think one of the skillset that, you know, it's hard to learn and we never get to a hundred percent because, you know, intuition and reading people, people discernment. How does one get better at the intuition of reading somebody to see if this is someone I can trust and do business with. And this is somebody dangerous that I shouldn't do business with, or even have as a friend, slow down. Everything doesn't have to be fast. The thing is people make you feel like you have to respond right away, especially like today with text, somebody sends you a text and you feel I have to be fast. I have to respond and you can be, but discernment to have it. You can't be fast. You have to slow down. So if it's something where I'm like, I'm not sure, or even if I feel like a weird way or, or if I listen to it, I listen to it. So I will give myself time to think and process and see how I feel. I mean, just think about how many times you go to respond to someone or you, you respond to them afterward. You think back like, Oh, I should have done it this way. I, when time passes, you think more rationally. Number one, you've had more time to process. And then a lot of times you even decide whether you want to respond or not. Most of the time, most things don't need a response. Not everybody needs a response from us, but we're made to feel like I have to respond to everybody. You're very busy, Patrick. I'm busy. So if I respond to everybody, I'm just, how much time am I going to waste responding to you, to you, to you, to you? It's always like, who needs my attention and when do they need it? So I guess don't be so reactive. Discernment to me is like not being reactive. It's, it's like I slow down and I decide when to respond, how I want to respond. And whether I want to do it or not. And sometimes I may not have all the information. Sometimes, you know what? I just don't want to be rushed. I want to have a bit more composure over myself and my mind before I make a decision. That's me discernment and discernment. It's not saying yes to everything. It depends though, where you are in life. Sometimes, sometimes with opportunities, we're talking opportunities. You say yes to everything when you're starting off. But I mean, in general, you don't have to say yes to everything. Interesting. So when you, it depends on the stage of your life early on, say yes to everything because you, you don't know what it's going to turn into. And then eventually you become more selective. But how, what are, what are some three to three signs I can get when I'm looking at somebody doing business with somebody after three months, six months that I can tell this person is somebody I should invest in and go a little bit deeper with the relationship or I should cut them. When do they show up on time for your meetings? I don't care if it's a Zoom. I don't care if it's in person. If they're not on time, that tells you, I kind of, the way there's, it's interesting. Everyone's like big on, I want respect. I want respect. The way you show somebody respect is I respect your time. I respect you and your time. You shouldn't be waiting for me. So if somebody has me waiting for them, I just, I just mark it in my brain. I just remember it. It depends who it is. I just remember it. So it's, it tells me like, I'm not as important to them. Do they take feedback well? So if I'm going back and forth, do they take feedback well? And then the other thing is, this is a big indicator. And I was actually talking with Anthony about it before. Does, do what people say match up with what they do? People talk, a lot. Everyone's a talker. I look at what they do. If you said you're going to do this for me, did you do it? Or did you give me lip service? Or did you forget? So I match what you say with what you deliver. Those, those, those two things are in harmony. If, if I get talkers, I, I don't respond. If you say, Hey, Evie, I'm going to do this for you. And I give you access to something and it's, you're supposed to review it and get back to me. And I don't hear from you. And I hear from you two months later. And that wasn't the understanding or three months later, I'm, I'm checked out. So in the recruiting process that you're going through last week, I had a fellow here, John McPhee, who was a former Sergeant major in the army. He was a Delta force for many years. They call him Shrek. The guy's a very well-known guy in the military. And one of the things we talked about is the recruitment process of getting into Delta force. Okay. And how you get recruited into it. When you're going into the recruiting of Delta force, you're going to get recruited into it. Uh, doing what you do with secret service. What are the red flags? What do they look for? What do they say? Is there a pattern of the types of personalities they recruit? So I did, I actually was part of HR. So when we did polygraphs, you had to take a polygraph and pass it to be in the U S secret service. And that's, it was typically the last phase or towards the last phase of the process. Um, so they had to eventually get to me. And then sometimes it would be like, look, this person's cleared everything. Something's off, but we can't figure it out. So they come to me and say, John, you're a Delta force. You're a Delta force. Just let us know. So here are a couple of things I would see in hiring. One big red flag is just the most people either lie or exaggerate on resumes. Just, just know that if, if time is missing on a resume, if you see gaps, sometimes people can leave that off because they were fired or let go. So gaps of time, they would also look at, and I don't know how deep you can go in the private sector, depending on who you are. Uh, obviously credit checks are a big part of that. They would look at your net worth. They would look at that. So if somebody has got massive amounts of debt, um, that's a red flag, right? You're looking at someone who's not responsible, can't pay off their debt. Um, maybe I'm not saying that they would, but taking money, you know, that's a person might be more susceptible of role in the world to taking money. So they would look at our net worth, how much we owed versus how much we were worth our credit history as well. Even if, um, they would even look at if you were kicked out of somewhere like, um, evicted from a residence, civil law, you know, you know, you're not going to be able to pay off your debt. So if you were part of any civil lawsuits, if you were part of any civil lawsuits in any, which way the big mistake, people who hire that they make is they don't ask questions. They're not nosy and they feel bad asking questions. Like you, you're nosy. You should be nosy. You're bringing this person into your company. And a big issue that companies are having today is they, they hire virtually. So you have deep things and people don't even think about the outside threat coming in. Not just like hiring a good person. If you're lucky to meet the person one-on-one, that's one thing, but deep fake. So even hiring people that will infiltrate your company, there's companies now, big tech companies, they have big issues with having people in the company because they're asking very like job skill questions. Can you do this? Can you do that? Like skills, but they're not looking at the overall human being. So the one wonderful thing that the United States secret service did is they looked at the totality of you. It was not whether you had the skillset or not. And in fact, most of us didn't even have a criminal justice degree, but we brought it in. We brought something special. I spoke languages. So I had that, um, that helped me get in my foot in the door, criminal justice. Like they teach you everything in training, but they would look at your background. I owed a, I had paid off a collection bill when I was super young. I might have been 17, 18. It was $125. I paid it off, but it still rang in my credit report. They sat me down. They're like, Hey, what's this $125 you owe? And they went to my schools and references. People asked questions, be nosy, make people answer you. But when I went to, uh, applied for the job, I studied overseas a lot. And at one point I studied in Rome. I did, I was at the American university of Rome. They sent a special agent to the American university of Rome, Rome to speak to my professors. What kind of Susan was she? Was she on time? Do you have problems with her in the most people can't do that deep of a dive, but you should look at the whole human and any inconsistencies. I'll give you an example. Once I was going to have somebody work for me. Um, and they gave me a legal agreement. Hey, if I want to work for you, it was for a certain position, but this is outside. This is post US secret service to give me an agreement. I read the agreement. And in my head, I'm like, first of all, a lawyer didn't write it. You did. This is Chachi BTAI. You could tell. So I didn't like that. Cause it's like, Oh, it's for my lawyer. And I knew I'm like, I may not be a lawyer, but I know that you, a lawyer didn't write it red flag. I don't like being misled. That's one two in the, in the, in agreed on a price. It's like, Hey, this is what I would like. I said, I'll give it to you. Face value. I didn't even negotiate. I'll give it to you. I want to earn that amount. But in the legal contract, it's like, Oh, I'm waiving my other fees. I read it in the, so it's like, you're going to pay me this, but I will waive my other fees that I normally charge, blah, blah, blah. So in my head, I'm like, why would you put that in there? And when I asked the person, why did you put that in there? Oh, my lawyer put in there, but why would you put it in there? What fees are you waiving? Oh, that's for later. So the moment I heard that, I'm like, I'm going to have a problem. And they're already telling me I'm under compensated. And I gave you the amount you initially asked for, which was like, let's say 10, 10 K. I gave you 10 K, but now you're telling me in your contract, well, I'm waiving it. Is it gamification that bothers you? Is it the manipulation? Is it like, I'm trying to do a leverage? Like I'm doing you a favor. Is that, is that the part that bothered you? No, it's, it's not being, it's hiding it in there. It's like, if I tell you this, you have to trust people on their word. Doesn't she know who you are? Like, why would she do that? Is that just a lack of competency on her end? I think people don't think, I think people think when they do agreements, like this is how they are. And I look at very like the honor of working with someone like I have to be able to trust you. And so if you feel like you can't trust someone, then just don't bring them on companies. And I do a lot of keynotes and training for companies ask me to come on. The biggest problem they have is once they get a problem, forget it. A problem person just corrupts everything hurts the company. And not only that you end up giving all your time and energy as a boss or supervisor to what the problem person, and you're neglecting everybody else because you're dealing with this issue. And so you, you really want to minimize bringing in problem people, or maybe bringing them on a temporary basis, almost like test driving employees before you're like, I'm hiring you just be like, Hey, we're going to bring you on a three month probation. US Secret Service NYPD does the same thing. It's a probation period so that they can get rid of you anytime they want. What percentage of guys do they get rid of on the probation side? NYPD probably more so than US Secret Service, US Secret Service, think of it this way, NYPD, my class of training is 1500. US Secret Service 54. So US Secret Service like literally hand plucks you, they're, they're, they're picking you, they're really, because they're investing a lot more money in you to send you to training, and they don't want to lose you. So they want to make sure you can also pass training, they don't want people to just kick out US NYPD is a bit more, I don't want to say an assembly line, but they'll do a map bigger net. And then in training, they're just weeding people out. They're just like, goodbye, gone. So one is quantity, the other one is quality. And for Secret Service, are they recruiting you or you're approaching them, you approach them, they'll go to like job fairs, or they go to universities to get the word out, because there's agent and there's uniform division. So they're two different things, but they're all US Secret Service, they work together. So the whole job fairs, although they'll go to universities to speak, but for the most part, you go to them, you have to think of it like this, Patrick, like, this, that's not a job that's gonna be like, Oh, my God, you look amazing. I think I'm gonna it's not like the movies where you think like they're going to recruit you because they think you're special. Nobody's special in those jobs. Nobody. It's it's everybody. What do you bring? What value do you bring? And you work as a team? Because that whole concept sometimes and I get heat for it. But authenticity, you're so special, I have to cater to you. If you're in a mission focused entity, that brings the whole system down, because it's now the focus is on me, the individual. And you're, you're reinforcing that. You matter more than the team matters. And you create an imbalance. And now good luck trying to fix that. Are there automatic elimination in the process for candidates and Secret Service? Like if this person has these five things, you're out like a non negotiable drugs, drugs was a big thing that I'd see people get. We call it BQ aid. A lot of if you have drugs in your background, I'm not saying no drugs. And I want to be careful because there's a hiring process here. But drugs was the biggest disqualifier. And a lot of times people when they when they were young, did a lot of things and sometimes it it it can carry into the future so if you had excessive drugs you had certain things with certain drugs that would be the number one thing any drug was it like not was it weed cocaine the problem now weed's legal in some places like you go to new york you smell it everywhere you go um i think it's they give you some time like let's say you did it now when you were 17 but you're 25 now and you're applying there might be a bit of space but they you have to be honest if you lie you're done even nypd i remember when i went through the criminal process i remember the one of the recruiters taking my hair like i remember i was like cut from the bottom and they cut like a big swath of hair all the way up to my root to test my hair it cuts your hair yes because the hair holds drug use longer than any other part of the body yeah and they do that with everybody i don't know if they do it now when i went in there they they i remember i was like at the bottom and so what was the process like they said we're gonna cut your hair yes for drugs it's your drug test it's your drug test because if you just do urinating in a cup or whatever that only holds a window of time the hair collects has more time so i can look a little bit further back do they still do it today nypd i do not know i do not know secret service secret service the polygraph was the weapon there most nypd does not polygraph not all police departments polygraph here's the way the polygraph works you have to be honest with me let's say no i've never done any drugs are you sure you've never done any drugs well you know maybe one time so we'll have a conversation you'll tell me about it or whatever it is that you're worried about then after we're done okay other than what you've told me patrick have you done this no and that's when i sit you in the polygraph chair i ask you these questions and then we see if you pass the polygraph if you pass it it means you've been truthful up until this point but drugs is probably the biggest thing i would see people get kicked out and then sometimes like deviant behavior when people are young that does i had one guy um he used to set animals on fire cats who would hire that person period right but i have to ask questions to find out he didn't come out and say it i go through his paperwork i look at stuff i start asking questions he said cats on fire yes i got him to specifically tell me what some people that's a hiring that's like a good sign because dogs is a red line but cats i don't want any animals because to me if you're and don't think it doesn't deviant behavior like even when you look at crime because i know you guys analyze current events and different things deviant behavior begins at a younger age but it starts in small moments right small behavior and it's usually the violation of somebody's personal boundaries i do something to violate your safe space and i use that term like my behavior violates you in some way causes you harm and you see it in children and if you don't correct it it escalates so my cat guy i don't think he started one day just setting a cat on fire the whole thing it just came up poking it hurting it maybe cutting a nail off doing something and then that behavior escalates and escalates and escalates how did you did you confront him because you knew or he told you i didn't know he was he was looking for a job he was one of our applicants but how did that come up the cat i ask one of the questions you ask and this actually came up in uh with fbi i to animals. So if you have relationships with animals, some people have inappropriate personal relationships with animals. Inappropriate? Yeah, like sexual relationship with animals. It's called bestiality. I asked that. You have to ask that question? Yes. What percentage of people have inappropriate relationship with animals? It depends what part of the country you're in. Usually East Coast or West Coast, very low. Middle America tended to be higher. That's crazy to me. I think, I'm going to tell you this, like you don't know people. And the one thing I learned is you can't vouch for anyone. Although we want to, you don't really know human beings. And so my job was to make sure that this was a healthy human being, a safe human being. This is a person you're going to give a gun to, multiple guns, right? Automatic weapon, because we had weapons that could fire automatically, shotgun, they're going to have acts to that. Then you're going to put them in the White House with the most powerful person in the world who's around them, other most powerful people in the world. So you really, really, really have to be careful who you let in. So behavior towards animals, whether it's sexual contact or relations with animals or abuse towards animals. Okay. So this guy. Am I like completely? No, no. I actually love this, but is this guy, did he eventually say, yes, I did kill cats when I was younger? No, I asked him about his behavior and we had a list of, did you engage in this? And so sometimes, sometimes people might tell you, sometimes people might give you an indication. So if I'm talking to you, let's say Patrick, and the whole time you're looking down while I'm talking to you, I'll leave you alone. I'll let you look down. But if I go to a topic and then all of a sudden you look up and make eye contact with me, I'm going to say, why, why'd he just do that? Or if you're sitting like this the whole time, and then I ask you something about the animal, and then you start doing this with your hand, I might notice those small things. They're small. It doesn't mean you're lying, but it does tell me you don't like this question. And I need to figure out why. Well, most recruiters do is they get their list. This is for my HR folks. Listen up. You get your list. You go through your questions. You're not even looking at the person. Look at the person. If you don't like the way they answer, or it just seems off, just ask follow-up questions. Tell me a little bit more about that. Don't call out what you see. Hey, when I asked you that question, you said, don't do that because that's their tell, and you want to have their tell. Do not correct behavior, but it is your job to ask more questions and more questions. And so you get people to tell you a story. The other thing you can do in the beginning of interviews is just, can I offer you something? Can I get you a drink? Can I get you a snack? Would you like anything? Make small talk. And one thing that also helped out when I did interviews is I had the person's info. Even when we did arrests, I knew all the other person's info. I had their name, their date of birth, or address. But you know what I did? I went with a blank sheet of paper. Hi, nice to meet you. What's your name? Spell that for me. What's your date of birth? I would ask them questions I knew the answers already to because I'm trying to understand who they are when they are in a relaxed, non-threatening environment. Unless, of course, they're lying to me about who they are. But usually your name, your date of birth, your social, I'm not threatened by those questions. So I get to see you as you. Then I shift to the job-related questions. And then I will see a shift happen. And then when those shift happens, I'm like, at what point did your behavior change when I asked you about drugs? When I asked you about animals? When I asked you if you've ever been fired from a job? Ask people, have you ever been fired? Have you ever been let go? And you know this already when you're asking the fired part. No, a lot of times I don't know anything because people lie. You know, look, if you really want that job, you can be a good human being. Like, look, I really want this job. But if I tell them I did this with drugs, I'm afraid I can't get hired. They would look at it as an integrity thing. A lot of times I would see people lie. And had they told the truth, they would have gotten the job. But some people lie. And then it comes out. And then at that point, it's like, look, you already took your poly. You lied. It's an integrity thing. So at what point did you find out with this guy that he was killing cats? Polygraph. That was polygraph. Yes. And it's just a question. I'm like, hey, tell me about your relationship with animals. And he said, I've killed cats before. Yes. Not exactly. We had to get to that point. My dad would never be able to be a Secret Service agent because he can't stand animals. His mother had 12 cats, two dogs, two pairs, two snakes, and all these pigeons. All his siblings love animals. His kids love animals. My dad cannot stand animals. If they touch him, it drives him insane. And we love cats and dogs. So if dad's watching this right now, you would never be able to be a Secret Service agent. As long as he doesn't harm. We're looking at he harmed one of them. We were in Iran, we were in fourth floor and we had secretly been hiding the cat in our apartment. My mom, my sister knew about this. He comes in, he smells it. He smells it. He's getting allergic. So he finds out there's been a cat living in this place for like a week. He went outside, put some Marta Della with hot sauce. Cat ate the Marta Della hot sauce, never came back ever again. So you can't hire my dad. He's 84 years old, but it'd be, it'd be a difficult hiring process. So today in the corporate side, when you're hiring, like that one lady, you were talking about the contract, say $10,000, all this stuff. And she put those things in the contract. What interview questions do you ask with somebody that's going to be a high level of higher? Are there two or three questions you ask in every one of your interviews? I think you can ask one thing you can ask is why do you want to work for me? I think that's an important question. And so I actually used to ask that in the polygraph. And why do you want to become a US Secret Service agent? And I'll give you an example. And you usually get two types of answers. I want to be an agent because I want to challenge myself. I want to see what I can do or if I can make it. And another type of answer would be I want to serve I want to do something greater than myself. I want to serve my country or be of I believe in the cause. What's the difference here? Do you think the entertain these two folks? What's the difference between the cause? This guy who wants to do it for whom? Him himself? And this person who wants to do it for what mission over? You know, that's a we that's a me. Thank you. So that's just something to pay note to pay attention to. So if you ask the question, why do you want to work for me? What answers are red flags? If the person's very focused on themselves, I just would just pay attention to that. Because that's a person who's like, I it's me person, not a team person. And, and that is going to be difficult. If I come in really with this microcosm of like me, me, me, me, me, and I don't understand, or I'm not about the collective group, then that lets you know that this person could be an issue later on that they're really focused on themselves. I mean, look at, I don't have to tell you how many, how long do people stay on jobs now? Exactly. Why are they coming in? How much money am I going to make my students? I was an adjunct professor about a decade, city university of New York. And I taught criminal justice, criminology, psychology, and I would have students come up to me. Sometimes ask me about the secret service. Anytime I had a student ask me, Hey, how much does the secret service agent make? I'm interested. You know what I would tell them? Not for you. Not for you. That job is not for, if you're looking to make money, go do something else. That job's not for you. So these are indicators that can show you the type of person you're bringing. That's one thing to look at. I would really look at gaps or spaces in the resumes. And I would ask them, tell me about this job. Why did you leave this job? Always ask why they left. Why did you leave? Why did you know what happened? And that's when you can find out where they fired and they're not telling you. Those are things. It doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't hire a person. I really look at the integrity of a person. If somebody's going to tell you the truth, to me, that speaks volume. If they're being evasive, then I would be careful because I also look at it this way. If you're going to tell me the truth, then I would be careful. You're going to lie to me about the small things. And that's to get the job. What are you going to do when you get the job and you mess up? Because you will mess up. You're going to lie about other things. We just went through this a few months ago. We were hiring a guy, very excited about him. We've done a handful of interviews with him. And he says he graduated from a very big school in America, very, very big school, school you and I would know about. And then we went through the background check process and we contacted the school. Never went to the school. He says, well, I'm going to get the degree for you. I have it. I'm moving. No problem. Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Monday. Never heard back. But with AI, this is a part of it why I think nowadays an interview AI being a good filter because there's no bias. We notice in our company where our HR, a lot of them were from Jersey. So next thing you know, we're hiring all these people from Jersey. I'm like, why do we have so many people from Jersey? I went and found that three of the people that worked in HR that are hiring people are all from Jersey. So the moment you would say, well, I'm going to get the degree for you. I'm going to get the degree for you. You would say, I'm from Jersey. No way. Me too. What part? Get out of here. I grew up. So there was an emotional connection, not necessarily if they would do the job better than a guy that's from Kentucky or Tennessee, right? So we added the interview AI component to the hiring and it spits out a score. There is no emotional connection. Is it a fit with culture? Is it a fit with skillset? Is it a fit with experience? And then that would be one of the indicators outside of the other interviews that we do individually. So question, you got five different types of personalities. Which of these types of personalities, these tend to be the ones that you trust the least. Okay. And you may, your answer may be a different answer than I'm expecting. One is the charmer, super charismatic, super charming. The other one is the victim. There's always somebody that's something bad to them. It's my mom. It's my dad. It's my boss. It's my ex. It's my this. Three is the intimidator. They want to intimidate you, like gain power over you in the meetings. Four is the narcissist. And five is the people pleaser. They're always trying to please everybody and conform. From your experience, which of these five are the most dangerous ones? Okay. Charmer is definitely dangerous. And here's the thing I'm going to, and I always hear people say, Oh, learn how to charm people. Can I ask you a question? Why? Why do you want to charm people? Is that not a manipulation tactic? Why do I have to charm you? Why can't I be a genuine human being? Charmers, you see this in antisocial personality disorder. Antisocial personality disorder is the disorder where we see a psychopathic or sociopathic behavior, which is the disorder which is the term most people understand. They're charmers. When it's like, why, if you naturally are a charming human being that is part of who you are, your DNA, wonderful. But when people like, I want to charm others, I want to be the most charismatic person in the room. I don't want you. First of all, me, me, me, me, me. You're, you're, you're, and that's a, that's a manipulation thing. I'm going to manipulate you to think I'm charming when I just be genuine. That's one. So I don't like the charmer. The victim's a problem because it's everybody else's fault, never your fault. And you can't work with that. I want accountability. The one thing I learned to use secret service accountability, nobody cared. Like, especially if you were in charge and there were times where I might give instruction to my team, my team would not follow it. You have that person. Everybody has that person that didn't follow or listen. And then there's a problem when I with the mission or the assignment who's in charge. I am. And when I go to my higher up, he, he doesn't want to hear like, well, it's his fault. Well, it's her fault. It's like, it's your fault. Fix it. So I don't want to work with the victim because nothing's their fault. I want someone who takes accountability. The intimidator, that person's a, probably somebody who had their lunch money stole one too many times when they were a kid. Why do I have to intimidate people? I'm hungry. It was my stomach growling. Um, you want me to get you something or your protein bar? I do it after I eat after interview. Okay. All right. So we did it with search warrants too. I, we always ate after we did search warrants, arrest warrants. Um, the intimidator tends to be a person who's insecure and they don't have very good emotional regulation. So if I have to intimidate you because I'm insecure, so I need to make sure I'm extra because I'm worried that you're not going to listen to me. I don't want that guy either or girl, the narcissist. I'm just going to say this with this term. Everybody's a narcissist today. I hear everybody like, first of all, it's a disorder, narcissistic personality disorder. You must be diagnosed to be a narcissistic personality disorder. I can have narcissistic traits because there's certain criteria you have to hit to be true narcissistic personality disorder. Most people are not. However, we do see a rise in narcissistic behavior because of the way people are. I think today, you know, you're special, you're this, you're that be authentic, be you. And, and it's very focused on the self and less on, you know, how does your behavior impact community? How does your behavior impact teams? We're not teaching that today. Today is like you, you're super special. You can do it all. And what that's doing is creating a more narcissistic type of population that I deserve this. I'm entitled to this. I should get this and less of what can I do to be a value to my community, to my society, to my team, to my home, to my family. So narcissistic, I would just be careful with that one. But you, you, you, you're not as worried about the narcissist as the charmer, the victim or the intimidator. Cause the charmer is a very specific thing. And the narcissist, here's why I'm not worried about it because if a person's diagnosed as narcissistic personality disorder, yes, it's a problem. But if you're just saying that's a narcissist, that means nothing to me. This is a person that's diagnosed. Then you have a red flag. In fact, in the NYPD at the time when I went in, they made you take a test that was similar to the MMPI-2. That's a test that checks for personality disorders. And they would also look at it to see if you had narcissistic personality disorder, any type of disorder that would be of danger for you to carry a gun. Look, this narcissist is a very self-focused person. It's going to be a problem. I don't, I don't want the narcissist either. Don't get me wrong. I don't want to sit and compete with you. I want to work with people. I also, a narcissist is going to have a hard time hearing critique or criticism. That's the issue with that. You want someone who can hear like, Hey, um, this report you did, it's not accurate. I need you to fix it. Not, Hey, you suck. Whereas like, or they're going to come back. It's like, I don't, I don't want to hear. I want you to fix what's incorrect. In fact, when I do the news at NBC, almost every producer I work with, I tell them, I'm like, when I am done, I will always want you to tell me what I can do better because I want to get better. Is there something I can do better? A narcissist is typically not going to ask you something like that. And then the last one, people pleaser. Yeah. The people please. That's my least worried because I feel like that person, you can give them a little bit more confidence. You can, you can guide them. Um, they're really going to work hard for you. So as long as you don't take advantage of this person and you don't let others in your organization take advantage of them and you give them confidence, this person you can somewhat work with because they really want to help and give. So I value that so long as it's not detrimental to the company. Okay. So which one would you put as the worst? The one that concerns you the most out of all of them? I can't pick one. They're all, they're all charmer, victim and intimidator. I don't like any of those guys. Those three specifically. And I don't like narcissist either. If I have a true narcissist, I just, you know what it is? I don't, you don't, you don't have time to deal with that. These people are going to take a lot of time, energy and effort. The thing with the charmer, it's, there's a deviant aspect to the charmer. That's why to me, it's a bit, the most dangerous one. They're, they're trying to charm you. Why do you need to charm me? What are you trying to get from me? That it's a manipulation thing. Okay. So now you were secret service and you spent a lot of time with presidents and to win elections. It's a very different election today than pre Nixon Kennedy, pre Nixon Kennedy. You just had to add a good voice and you could speak monotone. Nobody cared today. You have to charm the audience. You have to get the audience to win. Right? So from all the presidents you worked with that you Bush Sr., GW, Obama, Ford, you know, Clinton. Who was the most charming out of all of them? They were all different. I think President Clinton was very good at engaging the audience. I don't want to say he was a charmer. I just think he, but he was natural. It wasn't manufactured. He'd walk into a room, it'd be a thousand people. And if he talked to you, you felt like he was just talking to you. So he's very good at that. He was also very good, I noticed, at repeating people's names when he met them. So he, you know, you'd say, hi, I'm Patrick. And he would say, oh, hi, Patrick. So nice to meet you. Where are you from, Patrick? Oh, oh, oh, I love that area, Patrick. Oh, do you know so-and-so? Like, so for the people that say I'm terrible with names, this is all you have to do. In fact, there's brain scan studies done that when people hear their name, their brain lights up. It gives them an oxytocin hit. Makes them feel good. So it's a really great way to build a genuine, authentic connection by just showing someone, I heard you told me your name, and I'm making an effort to remember it. So I think President Bill Clinton was the best at really connecting and engaging people. And he liked it. It was not fake. It was not fake. Organic. Oh, every time we had him, we were always very, and I think I can share this. We were always like, please don't stop to talk to people. Because he would always love to stop to talk to people and shake people's hands. And for us, that was a nightmare. I want to get you from the car to this door and to the stage. And then done. But along the way, he'd be like, oh, hey, oh, who's behind this door? Oh, hey, let's go say hi to these people. And so it would make him late because he wanted to engage people. We always try to keep crowds of people as far away from him as possible because he would always want to go shake their hand. But it was who he was. How different were the others? Everybody has their own special thing. I remember George Bush Sr. He was notorious for writing people handwritten notes. Old school. Yes. If you met with him, and this is the president of the United States, if you met with him and came to his office, he would send you a note card. Thank you for taking the time to meet with me. It was such a pleasure. And, you know, I had a boss, a big, high-up supervisor in the United States Secret Service who did that. He would write us all notes and say, hey, bravo. I'm so happy you did a great job on this assignment. We had President Bush at one of our events in 2019. Senior or junior? Junior. And after the event was over with, we did the interview. Great conversation. 6,000 people in attendance. Kobe was there as well. Kobe Bryant. And a week later, I got a card from him. And it was, hey, Patrick, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed talking to you. And a note is still in my office. If you go to my office, the pictures are with he and I. And a note he sent me. And it's small little things like that. I read stories about Clinton that when he ran for office the first time president, he had collected $20,000. Names and addresses. And apparently he sent every one of them a letter saying, I'm running. I love your support. What would you say about the Obama or the junior? I don't remember if President Obama did that, but he was very engaging with people too. Like he would talk to people. He would listen. There was a genuineness to all of them. Like they were just themselves, but they each had something that they would give. Look, President Obama, he would line up, take people's photos. He would be present. He would be present. He might not get distracted as President Clinton would, but I would see him and we would shake hands. He would talk to people. They, they cared to make a genuine connection. I don't, I don't care what side you're on. Like to become president of the United States, there has to be something unique and special about you. Like you're no dummy. Like you're not going to get to that place by mistake. Were they, did you see certain things where they were different in public than they were private? Like, Oh my God, today was a long day. Or was it, was it a high level of consistency of public? Public and private? I mean, they're human, they're tired. There's things that they would deal with, or sometimes you would deal, you know, they would deal with people who would speak very ill of them publicly, and then they would see them personally. And the person would be very different towards them. It's like, and it was usually was not them. It was the outside world that did it. So you'd see like a member of Congress who would just shred them on national news. And then they'd show up for like a picnic at the white house. Um, actually, this happened to president Barack Obama. I wrote about it, so it's okay to share, um, cause it was cleared by the, the, the service. But he, I remember he was working late at the oval and then he finished, he was going to walk back to the residence cause there was a congressional picnic. And as I'm walking down the oval column, colonnade with him, somebody comes and they had IDs on. So I knew that they were there like to get on the white house complex. You're, you're vetted, but I didn't know who he was and it was, Oh my God, Mr. President, how are you? This is my wife. This is what, these are my kids. And, and the president just showed him the same gesture. Oh, so wonderful to meet you. What school are you going to? So I'm like, Oh, they're close. And can we take photos together? And then at some point to the, the person's behavior, which I didn't know this was a Congress person yet was very like a, I don't wanna say groupie ish, but a little like, Oh, Mr. President, Mr. President, Mike, my wife, my daughter, my kid. And I'm thinking, guy, he doesn't have time for, he's busy. He's being very gracious to you already kind of leave them. Then when we leave and we go in the elevator to go back up to the residence. He's like, you know, that guy said horrible things about me. He's going to national TV and said just terrible things about me. And so I think that would be sometimes very hard for them because it's when you're in public, you should just say horrific things about me. And then when we're together, it's like, Oh, Hey, I'm your best friend. Come take picture with my wife and kids. That's a hard thing. So I will say that they are highly resilient people. They don't have a choice to take that position. You have to be able to handle the. Level of punishment that comes with it. That you get, you get massive punishment. People are cruel. And I'm not saying this, like I get it, but people are just, it's, I always baffled. Like, why do you think it's okay to just be so cruel? I think there's no need. And I think the nastiest sport in the world. Well, today it's worse because it creates engagement on, on, on online, on social, I'm going to get clicks. Let me see the craziest thing so I can get clicks and people can view it. But you don't realize how infectious that, that behavior is and how influences I devices and stuff, and it's a whole other conversation, but I have a, a four year old and I have a four month old, no devices in my house, no screens in my house, Patrick, my kid watches nothing. I will play music for her from YouTube, and all she can see is the thumbnail, no video I'm protecting her mind. I don't want her exposed and even cartoons and all that other stuff. That's a whole other animal. The addictive. Yes. I don't want her exposed to the stuff online, but I'm trying to protect her mind for as long as I can. I don't want her exposed to things she should not be exposed to. There's, there's so many aspects, even just safety predator wise. And while she is young, if you look at psychology of, of, of, of the development of, of us as a human being, when they are young, it's when we have the most influence when they hit preteen teen behavior, our influence drops significantly and they care more about what their friends say. So while, while I can now, I will. I can now command and own that time to shield her mind and protect her also from zero to six years of age, the brain, the physical development of the brain is that it's, it's doing the most work. So the synapses and receptors that we have in the brain, they're being mapped out, they're being created. And we're finding that the brain physically now looks very different in children who use devices who are on screens versus kids that do not. So these are all these things that are coming up. I don't want my kids exposed to the cruelty, the meanness, none of that stuff. Were there, were there things you saw behind closed doors that was their way of calming their nerves of, you know, uh, relaxing them? And I'm sure every one of them had a different way of doing it. I will not. I can't answer that. And here's why you have a security guy outside, right? Yes. He follows you everywhere you go. Yes. So when you have a security person, they're in your personal space, there's a level of respect. You know, in professionalism to not talk about people, at least from the U S secret service. And it's really been drilled in me. I want to value and honor that it was a privilege. Like they let me into their circle because they trusted me. And so there's some things that I will share that are typically public. And there's some things like when it comes to them personally, I, I want to value and honor, even if it's nothing bad. I just don't want to do that. Don't give a name. You know, one thing that they all did, I'll tell you this. They all did physical activity. All of them, George Bush jr. Mountain biking. He used to run and then it hurt his knees. And then he started mountain biking. He was a beast. Try keeping up with him. Guys that like they're, they're always looking for volunteers because you have to carry all your gear, bike and keep up with them. So they all present Barack Obama every morning. He would go work out every morning, like clockwork present Clinton also worked out. So the one thing I will tell you that. They did to keep themselves centers, all of them, physical, um, workouts. And I, I follow that to this day. I even learned it in training, like the, the body and the mind like this, that I will tell you, that's something that they actually did. And it definitely helped. The other thing they all did, they were very good at delegating things to other people. So they did not try to do everything. This person's going to do this. So they kept their load light when you're. load is light, you're able to make better decisions and then you're not making a lot of decisions which creates decision fatigue when you make too many decisions in the day the quality of you making those decisions the quality of those decisions goes down and one more you asked because i think it can relate to the business aspect their circle of people around them so when things are falling apart out in the world like there's all this volatility the circle inside always steady nobody's losing their mind nobody's i've never seen anybody run through the hallways the white house screaming i've never seen it everybody's cool composed professional and you know in their demeanor so if the circle around you is like that guess what you're going to be you're going to be like that right do you ever work with trump or you never work with trump no everything would be different with him because when you said that congressman that came to obama president obama is like you know that guy said a lot of bad things about me trump would probably say hey you little a-hole you know what was that all about what you said yesterday to me so he would have a different approach i think he's a bit more direct like he might say i heard you said this and this but i will say from what i know like he would sit and have a conversation with him he would yeah and he'd be able to put that personal aspect to the side to talk business not a lot of people can do that so he would he would call him out and say hey i heard you said this about me but sit down what do you need not everybody can do that too much our egos are too fragile well you won't make it in business if you're not like that and he came up in new york you have to make those phone calls everybody's help you don't have a choice with that who who was uh so uh you said bill clinton was a jogger in the morning the president bush he had a meniscus i think injury so he couldn't run anymore he biked and it became a pretty he was he was very good i never volunteered for that like you want to volunteer i was like no no because i go to the ranch i'm like i'll just stay here and watch this i'll stay here with this tree and watch i sometimes i go on hikes with him because i had his daughter um barbara barbara bush i had one of the twins and so she'd go on hikes with her dad so we'd go on these hikes and i'm from new york city and they're like oh there's wild cats out there and i remember being like what's a wild cat like a big cat you know i don't i don't know wild cats and can we shoot them like um so we would go hiking in waco and different things and so you would you would have to you the job you had to physically keep up with your protectees and carry gear and carry um carry them you have to carry them it was a very physically demanding job would they would they interact with you would they talk to you and would you have to tell a president mr president you know i have a job to do like let me do my thing was there that those types of moments or no yes if they interact the smaller details with meaning like a former detail that circle tends to get smaller and becomes more personal and so they're not being bombarded like they were by white house staff by delegates by members of congress so those you would have more of interaction and personal relationships there when it's the president as he's sitting in office he doesn't have time like they will so you just engage in as much as that they want you go off of them buy stocks to sell you might be missing the opportunity if you're not being positioned real traders still hear the noise they just know when to stop listening to it find and research opportunities to fit your strategy with thinkorswim trading platforms from schwab discover features like robust charting nearly unlimited customization and built-in risk management technology plus get 24 7 support from real trading specialists that's schwab trading learn more at 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your one dollar per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer yeah because there was a story also with obama that he would go to this fireflies place in alexandria is that a true story that he would like to get away and go eat some food and so i guess the last question on this topic before we move on is who who was the one that had the what what patterns uh for president to have caused you guys to be over like you said earlier president clinton wanted to talk to everybody like he wanted to go open the door and say hey how you doing how you doing who was the easiest one to protect that major job easier who was the toughest one you know what is it's just they're different and you have to adapt to how they are so it's not that it's easy is that it's hard you'll have one president you get used to protecting that president and then another one comes in so like a president with kids young kids like president barack obama had young kids right so he wants to do things like he wanted to he coached his daughter's basketball team i would go out with him when he'd coach that's different so now he's around other parents he's around other kids um you're making sure that is it safe so it just depends what they're doing some presidents their kids are older they're staying more at the white house um president barack obama every holiday i spent all my holidays in hawaii for christmas and new year's essentially because that's where he would go or other presidents might stay local or bush would go to waco typically well actually bush i think he would stay if i remember he would stay maybe christmas or christmas eve at the white house so agents could spend it with their family so we didn't miss really yeah there was some good for him he would do i'm trying to remember exactly what he did but he would spend part of the holiday there so the agents physically wouldn't miss spending the holiday with their family because they would go to kenny bungport if it was or or to waco so there were some presidents that were really i think there's a story of mrs uh bush bush senior i don't i this didn't happen to me but she'd go around like giving me all these cookies to the agents or like moving your post because like you'd be standing here this is like where you're supposed to stand and there were stories of her like going up to you but like you're getting wet stand over here and you're like ma'am no i have to stand there so you would have those types of moments with some of them so when you when you think about what happened with the president you have three different things that happened with them the ones that we know about the butler case you know thomas crooks the golf course with ryan routh and recent one that happened at the correspondence dinner with the level of threats how much of it is that on the president because he's out there publicly how much of that is on the climate's just changing so this is a couple of things i actually touched base with the secret service before i came on because i knew you guys were going to ask me about this interview okay so we're looking at a couple of things one you're looking at what's happening outside of the united states we have the iran situation things outside the u.s definitely impact internal temperament let's say that so if things are if we're involved in something outside it tends to affect people inside their temperament you do have a lot of folks who have mental health issues um they are actually they've committed the most people at this point that they ever had so sometimes if you have somebody with serious mental health issues who wants to harm one of our protectees you can have them committed um that because they're either of harm to themselves or of harm to someone we're going to protect it's not an easy thing to do but those are happening more and more as far as being outside or outdoors i don't think that that plays a role i do think um the polarization right now is unlike anything i've ever seen before and when you have leaders political figures on both sides saying terrible things about each other um and not even just terrible things but very volatile things you know the the average person hears it one you're setting an example for the average person that this behavior is okay and if you're telling someone this person's horrible they're going to ruin your life they're going to you're the world's going to be over if they get elected it's hitler it's whatever you want to call somebody when you do that then the person who hears it and sometimes they're not all mentally there are people sometimes have very weak mindsets they hear this and if you're villainizing somebody and they're both doing it to each other to such a degree if i hear this i'm thinking i'm doing the right thing by the world by trying to get rid of this person you villainize this person i'm going to be the savior i'm going to help rid this person the other thing that's super prolific is social Before, if you wanted to hurt a president, first of all, wasn't as out there, you had to like take a piece of paper, write a letter, fold it up, put the address, put a stamp on it, mail it out. Or even if you wanted to be public and say things publicly, you would have to go to like NBC, like where I work and have somebody let you go on camera and publicly speak and say what you want to say. There was a filter process. There is no filter process today. I pull up my phone and I just write whatever I want and I say whatever I want. Patrick, I'm a champion for humanity. We have shown that we are not capable of using these devices with grace, with class, with like any type of filter system. It has become the wild west and that is infectious. And that also now makes me, I can be in my bunny slippers at home. I'm going to pull out my phone and I'm going to be Mrs. Tough Guy. When in reality, I would never say that to somebody's face. So the hate and the rage is infectious. All these things combined, are causing this. And then I think social media is really the prolific thing. And, and in talking to some of my folks there, they believe that too. Like they're, they're dealing with the hate and the rage sells and incites people. It gets clicks, but what we don't realize that we're doing is we're infecting everybody. So what I would tell people is really be careful with what you consume because a lot of folks are out there and it's for the clicks and it's for the likes and it's hurting us. I'm not trying to be like Ms. Philosophical. I'm just telling you, if you want to know why these threats are coming from, if everybody, everything I consume is hate and rage, and this person's a villain and they're going to take away your rights and they're going to ruin your life. And this person's here from this foreign country. And they're going to this from both sides. If you're, if you just say whatever people believe it and it infects more rage and hate. And that's why they're there. Do you know what it's like to keep up with these before? When somebody said something hateful, you, or if you felt there was a threat made against the president's life, you had to go run out. Do you know how often they're going to run out? I remember Howard Stern. I was an agent at the time when he had his show and it was, you know, I think he still has it, but it was really popular. Somebody went on a show and said something about the current president at that, at the time. I don't want to remember who it was, but something kind of alluding to hurting or killing that president, US secret service. And Howard told him, Hey, be careful. Secret service is going to show up. And you know what? We send agents out to like, go interview the guests on the show because you can't say that stuff. Yeah. That's interesting. If you can, uh, uh, it sounds like a good call. Uh, threatened the vice presidential candidate on the radio, Lawrence Christian Franco, 23 from Long Island said things about Joe Lieberman, Al Gore's running mate in 2000. Franco calls Stern's shown repeatedly threatened to shoot Lieberman. Is this the one you're talking about? It might be. Yeah. Uh, so you know, uh, threats when you get, when you get, uh, uh, one of our guys, Vinnie, we're in, uh, Tampa this weekend and he gets a DM from a guy. Threatening for threatening his life and just kind of go, I can't believe you set this on. We're going to get you and we're going to find you and we're going to do this to you. And Vinnie responds back. Now, typically it's like, listen, don't even respond back. He reported this to the FBI and to find that if the guy is real or not, the guy responds back. I don't even know if this part of the clip I'm going to put in the podcast or not, but you can kind of read the top part of what the guy said. Uh, uh, you know, you're seeing what he's seen at the top and what he said about his mother. And I will do this and I will do that to you. Okay, great. Vinnie, responds back. Okay. In an audio. And the guy responds back. I want to play this to you. When you get something like this, do you report it or do you not report it? Do you just kind of let it go? Just listen to the audio. I respect that. Let me slow it down a little bit because I have it on 2.0. I respect that. You know, I think, uh, most of you conservative Americans are a bunch of cowards right now. You're lucky you live in America. You're very lucky. You know this. You've gone. I love America. I think God bless America. A guy like you in Europe or in Africa or in South America would be, would be killed easily. Like nobody wants anything to touch you because you're too small. Do you understand? That's the reason why you people are not taken seriously. So he continues, threatens his life on the call on Instagram and they're going back and forth. He reported, took him about 10 minutes to make all the reports. Cases like this, because nowadays it's a lot. I mean, we had to build a wall around this property. When you walked in, this place looks like a, it wasn't like this. It took us three months to build that 10 foot wall around and we have full-time security 24 seven. How does, you know, one, what should you do when you get threats like this? Should you do anything about it? Leave it alone. Don't respond back. Especially you guys are getting hundreds of thousands of messages that are coming in. What should an individual influencer do? So I get stuff too, you know, so just one thing when I was listening to it. So this guy's liberal. I'm just not picking a side. I'm just assessing who I'm listening to, right? Cause he's saying you conservative. So that means he's probably a liberal person. He has an accent, right? So possibly a foreigner, possibly in another country. And then as he talks, he says, you all live in America. So if you were in Africa and Europe, you'd be taken out. So that leads me to believe he's where, is he here? He says he's based out of Belgium. He is a Muslim who doesn't like some of the thoughts of one of the interviews we did with an individual. Okay. So he's overseas. He's overseas. Good luck. What are you going to do with that? Nothing. Exactly. He's overseas that no one's going to extradite. No one's going to, these happen so much. And that's why I'm saying like these devices are really, they're just toxic because now everybody has access to you. Everybody has access to me. I'm on social. I didn't have any social actually until after I left the United States secret service. I had nothing. I had no LinkedIn. Nobody needs to know anything. Even my birthday that's out there right now. It's fake. I just put fake birthdays everywhere I go. So I do everything I can to shield and protect myself. So when it's overseas and the majority, this is just for people to know when you're arguing on social, it's either a bot a lot of times or the person's overseas. And you also, you have foreign actors that are really smart. They're trying to, they're creating more polarization. If I'm from the outside and I want to destroy a country, what's the best way to destroy a country from within, from within. And so what they're doing, which is really clever, a lot of these foreign actors, they're creating a dialogue so people can fight from within. So I would just tell people, I would caution you, please be hyper aware all these things you think you're fighting for the righteousness and use these words, justification, all this stuff you think you're helping you're being used in many of these things and you're being manipulated to fight from within the attack is coming from the outside. I would caution people, pause, think, I got to tell you, Patrick, I don't write anything hateful about anybody. And there's things I see where in a side, I'm like, I roll my eyes too, but I'm like, I do not want to help add. I love this, the United States. I love the U S I was born here. My parents are immigrants, but this country has given me so many wonderful things. And I do not want to add to the, the, the hate and the volatility and the destruction of it. Because we are not realizing we are incrementally allowing ourselves to be used in such a way. So, so did you guys like even maybe it's a different time because nowadays with podcasters and influencers, you know, uh, reports come out that some people are getting paid from this country, that country, this country, it's a very easy way to divide America right now. Just go find a couple of guys paying 25, $50 million, give them a message that you want them to say based on this. Do you think any of that is happening? Yes. A hundred percent. It's happening. It's a hundred percent because they're like, Oh, I'm getting paid. I don't know. Who's paying me, but he would like me to do this ad. They're not thinking. And you know, can I ask you what's the predominant age of most influencers? Thirties to forties. Right. Do you really think they're thinking about it? This is their livelihood. They just want to get paid. You think really that's all it is. They're not knowing that what the money is coming from. I'm talking about specifically, I'm not even talking about influencers that are content creators. I'm talking about political influencers that are getting paid by some of these other countries that are, you know, wanting them to say, no, it's not that big of a deal. The enemy is that person. That's influence. Do you think the U S government knows that these people are getting paid? I think that this is new. And I think that they're starting to track it or trace it. I think, you know, you were talking about starting a business. We should probably start a business where, uh, if you're an influencer or somebody we can track like where the money's coming from. You know what that report would do? It would be the biggest report of all time. If you can pull that off. You're right. Tracking like this person's trying to pay you to say this, who are they? Where's the money coming from? Where are they located? Where's the company at? Right. Who's actually really in charge? You know, I always get offers online, like, Hey, we're your creator or whatever they call it. We want to partner with you on this. I delete all of those. I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want me to say. I don't know where the money is coming from. But it's different with you. You're a we person. So a we person is different than a me person that wants to get the cash and the check. So the, the, the average influencer is not that they're getting money from a lot of places right now. So there has to be at some point, some infrastructure built where there is some kind of liability on you. The influencer, if you're agreeing to do this, that you have to follow some kind of best practices or protocols to make sure that where the money come is coming from is legit. How do you do that? That's with shell accounts and all this stuff, the way you're being create. Okay. So two weeks ago, I had this guy on the podcast. His name is Jacob Cox. And he's the one that did the tweet about anthropic AI that, you know, it's the end of the world. Be careful. And, you know, we "You shouldn't do this." He worked at OpenAI for a few years and then he went biggest tweet of the year was his tweet. I don't know if you saw that or not. It was massive. It went viral. So he sat here. I said, so what's your biggest concern? He says, well, you know, I said, so, you know, is the concern that China is going to get this technology before we are? He says, whatever we have, China has. I said, why do you say that? He says, because Chinese nationals are working at companies like OpenAI and Anthropic. And so they're relaying the message to whatever's going on here over there. Okay. How does the country today, when he's talking about the director of secret service, the threats are up 40%. Forget about the threats, espionage. You have Intel being sold, Intel being sent back. And all these guys are coming, you're working here. They're Chinese folks are long-term thinkers. That's not our business model. We don't say, let me go work in China. They would never let that happen with us. How do you, you know, how do we protect against nationals, Chinese nationals, and some other countries working for big AI companies and relaying the information back to them? Handmade in Portugal. Where craftsmanship is a way of life. For those who move through life differently. From sunlit decks to nights that never need an occasion. Every detail is considered. Every step, effortless. Crafted from fine suede and built with builder technology. Designed to move with you. Because true luxury isn't about being noticed. It's about how you feel when you arrive. The FLB icon. Made for the life you've earned. Buy stocks to sell before the end of the week. 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Pick a shootout in the West and a boards battle in the East. On PrizePix, you can make all the picks you want, all in the same app. And now, PrizePix is available nationwide. So what are you waiting for? Download the PrizePix app today and use code SPOTIFY, that's code SPOTIFY, to get $150 instantly in lineups if you win your first $5 lineup. PrizePix. Run your game. Must be present in certain states. Visit prizepix.com for restrictions and details. So this goes back to what we were talking about before, the hiring process. You have to do a deep dive into people's background to figure out what you can. AI companies with access to the best technology. You don't think they're doing it? I think that they're hiring in mass numbers. I don't, I think it's, I think it, Patrick, it's the checklist. Okay, you have this skill, you have that. I don't think people are putting as much, now they are. I've had companies come to me because I do. I do keynotes and I do training sometimes and I'll ask them what are the, some of the issues you're dealing with and this is an issue that they have outside actors sending people in to them for jobs and they're trying to manage it or they're getting deep fakes. A lot of the deep fakes come from Korea and it's like almost like they're supposed to get a number of jobs. Korea? It's not South. North, of course, yeah. Right? Yes, Korea. That's another thing. They do deep fakes. And in fact, kind of a, one thing to look out for is if during the interview, they say, excuse me, I have to use the restroom. Um, that's a sign that they switch people. So there's all these, these different things. So I speak at a lot of these companies that deal with security. They're, they're concerned. So yes. Are there actors in there? Yes. Cause I think initially, and I don't think all of HR is properly trained. They're thinking who's going to spy on us and then until it gets too late. So the thing with China is accurate and correct. China takes everything. They don't look at, they don't look at it like we're stealing. They look at it like we're taking this to help our country and if you are Chinese national, like they, when they have the right to take your stuff, there's almost like if you go to China, by the way, if you ever go to China, don't bring your phone, don't bring your laptop. It's garbage. You can automatically assume that it's going to get compromised. Take a fake phone and then toss it. Then in president, United States recently go, they got all these gifts from China. Did you read the reports of what they did with those gifts? They threw them in the trash because they have devices. They have monitoring a when we will go overseas to certain countries or a certain countries where you were told, don't bring your stuff, just know yourself is going to be compromised. So the first thing I did when I got to the United U S I would hand over my phone and over my devices and RT department would decide, is there any spyware or malware? Some country was like, it's garbage. So I would caution these countries. I know the United States is very much about, we want to hire everybody. We want to invite everybody. We want to have everyone. The problem is you're also not living in reality and Americans are very, they're very good people. They have a good heart and they project out onto other countries that they are the same or other groups of people and not everybody is the same. And so we are seen as quite naive and we are by them, by the enemy. Yes. We are seen as naive and easily taken advantage of because we're very much like everybody please come and you want that because I've benefited from it. You have as well, but you also have to have protocols in place of filter system layers of security. To catch that actors. You can't live in Lala land and not presume that there are not bad actors. Well, you're also the most powerful country in the world. So there is incentive to do this. If we were in like nothing, nobody, then they wouldn't bother. But because, and also, you know, better than I, where do all the great companies exist? All the great innovators exist. What country U S thank you. So where's everybody going to try to steal and take espionage from? I heard this quote once. I don't know if you've ever heard of it. China has a lot of jobs, but the United States has Steve jobs. Understand. So I think we have to think differently. It's not that you're excluding people. It is that you are the gatekeeper of who you hire, slow down, look into people's backgrounds, check references, know who you're going to, verify things, go online. So even if somebody has come for a job, go back and look at that LinkedIn profile. Does it look legit? Does it look fake? Does it look like a bot? Yeah. The concern right now is with the AI, whereas it's forget about what I'm doing. What are they doing? You know, what are, what are they doing to not have the information being shared over there? What are some influencers doing that are given messages that pins America against American confuses the hell out of the younger generation? And how do you control that? Because freedom of speech is a big part of America and I'm a freedom of speech. Absolutely. So what do you do? Do you create, you know, a certain criteria of when you're getting paid from an outside actor, another country, you have to publicly announce, the fact that they're paying you. There's gotta be like an in financial services. When I was a, a, a series 766, there's something called an OBA. You have to report every 90 days, your outside business activity and your outside brokerage account. So I have a account with, let's just say Morgan Stanley Dean, whatever. You have to say, how's your account doing? You have to give the report statement. Do you two create any new accounts? I did. What are they? Here's a TD water house. Here's a, you know, T-Row price. Okay, great. We need to know. See them. Boom. Great. Outside. What other sources of income do you have? I had to have this source of income. There's a need to be that where a, I don't know, but to me, if someone's getting paid from an outside country, I would want to know, especially if you have a massive level of influence, but then that could be also free market capitalism. I can do business with anyone. It, the way the constitution is set up, it's so phenomenal, but it's also got opportunities for other bad actors to come and exploit it. There's a price with freedom of speech. Well, look, when it was a created, who would have thought of all this stuff? I think it's creating oversight. It's going to take time and it's going to take, unfortunately, we are reactive. We are a reactive country and it's going to take something bad to something very obvious to happen before some type of committee or oversight, or even maybe a new department is developed that has oversight over such things right now. It's the wild west. So I think something significantly bad is going to happen that they're going to say, okay, we have to do something. Everything we do, um, as great as we are, we are a reactive country. Something happens because we don't want to violate people's rights. We don't, want to take away from people so it's okay now this happened we have to do something even if you just look at something simple as 9-11 before to sit and listen to somebody's conversation you would have to it was an act of god to actually get a wiretap to listen to phone conversation before 9-11 after it happened then the patriot act came out um and it was like hey all you had to say is this is tied potentially to terrorism and then you can get it easier decision or bad decision patriot act i think it was a good decision at the time they did the best they could with the information they had at the time you're just trying to protect and prevent another 9-11 so i think we learn as things happen i the the it was meant to be good i think when it starts to be overly used uh compromised abusive where humans are flawed that's when you're like hey wait a minute yeah so you know that's obviously 9-11 you brought up 9-11 you you were you had an experience with 9-11 you went to the towers at 9-11 maybe share that with the audience so the u.s secret service field office was in seven world trade center uh cia was also in there i believe fema was their emergency management there was a whole bunch of us in there so when i was actually in early for work because i was working a case and that's when the first plane hit so i remember hearing the sound and then looking out the window because the towers were right next to us because it was all like they're all collected and looking up and seeing the fire in the hole and so i was in the first plane and i was in the first plane and i was in the first plane and i was in the first plane and i was in the first plane and i was in the first plane and so i immediately myself and some other agents we mobilized and then we went down to to try to exit to help and i remember we could not exit from the front because the debris from the building was collapsing at the front and around seven so we had to go through the back and then as we were trying to go to the tower the uh second plane came and hit and so as we're running this way the tower is let's say my mic we're going this way uh and then we're going to um here the two towers and then this other plane comes and hits and then all the debris start shooting at us um that we take cover and it was either honestly it was either you got hit or you got missed like there was no you were injured it was either you got hit and you were gone because the debris in the metal i mean that you're looking at things the size of this table and cars there was no walking away and so i was there for um to render aid to respond uh for the first collapse the second collapse and then i stayed in the first plane and then i was in the second plane and then i stayed a few weeks later to help with the cleanup and rescue efforts as well search right yeah i mean it was a tragic uh day we'll never forget i got started with morgan stanley dean with her day before 9-11 and i was supposed to go to new york because that's where our headquarters was yes it was a go get trained there uh on the creative side you're saying something's got to happen for us to you know unfortunately a threat's probably going to be happening what does the next threat look like you saw the director of secret service you know one of the things he brought about drones i don't know if you have that clip on drones or not he says we don't know how to go up against drones and i don't even know if i want our director of secret service to even saying that but i think one of the things he brought up is you know we've never experienced drone attacks the way they are right now so what are the future threats how do you how do you view that so what he was saying i watched that clip so what he is saying is he's saying we can mitigate individual drones so they probably take down drones and three to four drones a week just at the white house complex so they can mitigate three or four drones a week oh yeah at events a different at the white house at different events i'm trying to think yeah um so they can take them down they're they're about they you just don't hear about them they use jammers they use different things to help with that um they also have this new device where they actually can catch drones midair because they're worried about somebody attaching explosives to them so that's why they're using the drone and using that initially and i'll use my phone one of the things when we would work rope lines is i did not want people um putting their phone in the president's face during a rope line because you can lace this thing with um some type of device some type of um uh explosive device put it in front of the president's face and then detonate detonate it so we were always concerned about people lacing devices when we would check the camera equipment when the press would come we have them lay out all their camera equipment we open it up turn it on i want to see how it works because i want to see if something goes boom so now they're worried about explosives being attached to drones which can easily be mobilized now their concern is a mass attack of drones meaning you've got a hundred drones all with explosives and that's being concentrated together to make one massive attack or maybe multiple attacks in a specific area that's what they're trying to figure out how do you can you prevent that that's what they're thinking they're thinking and i will give them credit they're thinking with their imagination which is what you should do they're thinking with their imagination they're trying to make especially the white house the most safest and secure place right now and it should be it probably is the most secure place in the world where is the white house the white house you think so yeah i think so really yeah there's things that you don't see like what i can't tell you i don't want anyone calling me afterwards but they're they're they it's really secure it's locked down if i'm in the house i'm probably safe there's ways to move around and and um the underground i don't know anything yeah so there was a movie done a few years ago with gerard butler was in it angel has fallen i don't know if you remember that was it angel or olympus has fallen no there's both of them but one of them was angel has fallen where morgan freeman was the president and they're out there fishing yeah i don't know if you remember that one scene he's fishing and then you see an error see if you can find this clip on youtube you see hundreds and hundreds of drones flying their way and it that that is the first time when i saw a clip visually to say how do we defend against that what would it's not like we have a it's that one right there's a second one if you go out well seven minutes we can't go to it maybe uh while we're doing this click on that and we may need to cut it i don't even know if we can show this clip and i'm just showing it to you maybe the audience doesn't see it we just see it the drones one by one come fast forward to the scene where the drone attack comes it's like literally it's like literally the drones one by one come fast forward to the scene where the drone attack comes it's like literally the drones one by one come fast forward to the scene where the drone attack hundreds if not thousands in the air that get deployed and he throws the president in the water yeah right there how do you fight against this how do you fight against all these hundreds if not thousands of drones are coming look at this yeah it's it's it's a it's a thing also don't forget airspace you have help from the military as well so having military aircraft on standby to help to assist to shoot down anything the problem is time one of the things they do is they do clear airspace when he's in certain areas or moving you will clear the airspace for his movement so that you don't want anybody flying through or near around i'm not saying it's not hard and i think that's why the deputy director was just being transparent so so you know when you look at these there you go one by one by one he throws the president in there morgan freeman's the president and thousands so we we were uh there's a business that you hired them and they get fired and they get fired and they get fired and they get 500 drones and the 500 drones gets up and it shows future looks bright or our company logo we did this we did this a couple years ago flagler's estate in palm beach and it was a great experience so what if this guy's a bad actor what if this guy's a chinese national what if this guy's like hey here's a party we're doing a drone show under each one of those drones put a little bond that you have kind of like what uh what are those drones called that they showed that the flare that they showed the recent technology with drones that the u.s government showed palmer lucky is working on drones right now but we learned with this recent warfare with russia and ukraine and iran that really the one that all these big military didn't know how to defend were the drones right and this was one of them these are the flare drones that they come in and light the place up and they're small they just cost a few hundred thousand a few hundred dollars for a couple thousand dollars to make and big militaries like russia don't know how to fend these guys off you know what i think that they might do and again this is just surmising because obviously i don't know it would be interesting to see what they're going to do and i think it's going to be interesting if you create counter drones that actually like almost kamikaze drones that hit the other drones but they would and just have them explode in air rather than on the ground like as a counter measure so you're jamming and then the ones that almost like a missile hitting another missile in the air they're gonna have to come up with really creative ways to figure this out what is uh what does israel have that the interceptors that they have what do they call it the the bubble what is the president the iron dome iron dome talking about building that uh here but threats are changing so you didn't give me the answer what do you like if they were to if they did 9-11 how what could the threat look like from the enemy i don't know if you're gonna have another 9-11 because right now it's easier to do different attacks using ai corrupting people from the inside um poisoning water did you just see something that just happened i saw it in the news somebody this was in france they were able to get into the system that refrigerates excuse the food and supermarket in a big supermarket and they increased the temperature overnight in the supermarket so that all the food would spoil they they hacked into the yes they hacked into the supermarket so i i see stuff like that where you're you're you're terrorizing and you're you're that's brilliant yeah they spoiled all the food they turned up the temperature in the freezers and in the supermarket overnight supermarket fridges hacked heated to 122 degrees and sparking, this was just yesterday. two hours ago this is this is the new way to attack i'm going to take out your water supply i'm going to take out your food supply it's hot it's it's harder it's harder to attack physically i think today just because of all the awareness i think the attacks are coming in a different way through cyber through ai um the i mean even getting into the system the grid system and just taking out all the traffic lights in a place like new york city i'm not trying to give ideas right but or taking out the system greece had something recently where all the their whole infrastructure for their air traffic control everything went down and there were planes just flying around the whole airport when um the system went dark so i think these are the types of attacks you're going to see and they're going to be having happening everywhere they're easier to do they're safer to do i'm doing them for far away the ones where you're going to see kind of i'm going to go open fire or try to do a physical attack those you'll see those the lone wolves like they had just recently arrested somebody where was that arrest that just happened i'm drawing up at the night they were at the mall of america's wasn't somebody just going to do a shootout isis inspired i believe you'll have those but if we're talking mass mass mass i'm not talking i think mass is going to come well he supposedly has ties but i think the mass attacks are going to be water electrical systems taking down the grid things like that and doing it from overseas and doing it other countries doing it or other bad actors doing it here's the thing with bad actors or the bad guy however you want to say it they spend all their time trying to create ways to hurt you they just that's all they do that's their goal you're trying to run your country you're trying to keep civilians safe you're trying to secure the government you're trying to do all these different things so that's why it's very dangerous because sometimes we become reactive it has to happen for us to know and then to respond yeah there was a uh test they did six weeks ago ukraine with their drones in the u.s military i don't know if you heard about this or not so they send their uh drone team and they went up against the u.s military and you know who won ukraine won and then had a conversation with a guy that works uh you know he was involved in this operation yeah u.s and ukraine forces went head-to-head in an exercise ukraine's drones won and this was literally a few two months ago and when it happened august 13th so we're we're entering a very different climate but that conversation about you know raising the temperature at every single public's at every single vaunt at every single who would think of that like i would have never thought of that that's brilliant though that's it so you do this to all the supermarkets nobody can get food i mean you're not going to take out all the food but just think about it it is brilliant i don't want to give bad but it is i mean you see that you're like i can't tell you how many times i would interview people and i was fascinated criminals as to how they committed the crime and i would sit there i'm like how did you do it i please explain to me and usually some of them were a bit narcissistic which i hoped because they were like oh let me tell you brag about it and i would just let them brag but there were times where we we would have like a scratch in the head i i don't know how this person did this that to me that to me is a brilliant attack i almost feel like you know you have to hire those people and bring them in kind of like how fdr back in the days brought a guy uh he hired destroyed the stock market which was joseph kennedy and then there was a guy named frank abingale i don't know wasn't he the catch me if you can't guy yeah leonardo the kid they brought him it's like oh shit this is i would steal money from the bank yes and so he gave a lot of he's actually a very good speaker when he gives us stories okay so let's go to the next word the word i want to talk to you about is justification right i shared that with you at the beginning the word justification so lindsey clancy happens all right and we know the lindsey clancy story she happens she kills her three kids i think it's eight month old three-year-old and five-year-old and we see the juror eleven to one one guy's like nope i'm not with it you can't get me to flip and she was going to go just go to a mental hospital you don't understand you know it's not for all this stuff right afterwards i wanted to pull up how many cases similar to her has happened so i'll give you a few of them first one is cory walsh illinois september 1st 2026 she was charged with murdering her two-year-old son she followed clancy's trial and texted friends about it hours before killing her two-year-old son her attorney says she was experiencing psychosis okay uh then you have another one justine marie may south carolina it's september 29th 2026 a few weeks ago charged with two counts of homicide by child abuse after her daughters ages 2 and 15 months died from starvation and dehydration affidavit said she said she had spent two weeks in a blur she couldn't remember what happened kind of see the pattern here what's going on another one we have is janet mick ausland massachusetts accused of killing her children ages six and seven after clancy's mistrial her attorney invoked the clancy prosecution while asking prosecutors to reconsider their approach colleen lemon killed uh christopher christopher and brian her kids her children this just happened a week ago two weeks ago sibella savella killed her daughter four years old this happened three weeks ago i can tell you so many different cases so how much of psychologically are we going to see you know women who are seeing this happen as a pattern and they're coming out there you know with this case and saying somebody else who's already doing this influenced me to consider violence or giving them justification to say you know this is not my fault you don't know what i'm going through how much of that case influences others to do the same so it's copycats i covered this case it's copycats i said it like whenever somebody does something or something like this happens the first thing in my head is like someone's going to copy it um where it becomes difficult and i don't think i'm again i don't know the prosecutors prosecutors of this case personally i do not think that they expected the turnout and support that lindsey clancy got i think they expected the population of of the vast majority to be like this for this to be a you've killed your three kids i really thought that they thought it was going to be a slam dunk and so i think i don't want to say that they were not prepared i just think they didn't see it coming i don't think a lot of people saw this coming so i'll give kudos to lindsey clancy's lawyer he did a great job obviously because he did such a good job arguing this that it's taken this thing so what's happening with her is it's justification she is saying i did i looked at the history of all the different things she did she's having issues and she went from this doctor to this doctor to this doctor they gave her each one gave her different medications changed the medication so she has a repeated pattern of going asking for help going to these doctors they're giving her different meds at one point she voluntarily commits herself then i think leaves five days after because she didn't want to miss her kid's birthday so you see a pattern she's telling people i'm hearing things she's telling people i don't um she's doing all these things she's communicating this now the argument is what there's a couple arguments one is it the medications that she was given that caused this behavior so could you argue argue has she not taken any of these medications which she have done it but then you could also argue well you don't have to take the medications a doctor gives you right i'm giving multiple angles if we're looking at did the meds make her do it but then is there a level of responsibility on myself if i choose to take something that i know is making me not feel well do i still say well you're it's your fault you're the doctor you gave me this right is there not a level of responsibility on myself to say i shouldn't be taking this because i am voluntarily taking it nobody's making me take it that's one the other issue is i think that when you look at what she did it's either she there has to be some kind of consequence it cannot be the person gets let go because then you're going to have a prolific escalation of this stuff i agree there has to be either you get committed and if you get committed you could be in there for longer than what you would have gotten if you were to go to prison sometimes depending on what you did or do you go to prison but you have to create some kind of consequence it cannot be it cannot be we're letting you go because you are going to create a ripple effect the other thing is how she committed the crime so i looked at that because i was looking at it for the news she is telling him go here go run this errand go pick up food then go do something else she speaks to him at one point on the phone she talks with him and says hey i need you to do something everything's fine and then she's she's taking actionable steps to commit the crime to kill one child then you move and you kill the other child so if you're looking at that at the breakdown of how she did it you could also make the argument that she understood and was consciously aware enough to what put a plan together and continue to carry out that plan when you look at this one i taught uh my criminal justice courses there's different tests there's the one's the mcnaughton test but essentially they say that you are so incapable of understanding what you are doing in that moment that there's one that called the police test that even if a police officer showed up behind your shoulder and said hey stop you wouldn't have stopped you would have kept going that you are so unaware i don't know and again there was a jury and it was 1101 so again i just don't know given all those facts of how she did it she followed through with the crime that you can completely say his absolute psychosis because when you think psychosis like what level of psychosis am i not there I do think there should be a level of consequence. It cannot just be you're going. It's either a person should be committed. Like you can't, how can you release this person back into society after what they did? What do you think needs to happen to her? They're going to have a retrial. I think there should just be a level. There should either be commitment, like she should be put in an institution or there should be a level of jail or it would be prison. But you know what, Patrick, let me just say one thing and I cut you off, I'm so sorry. If you look at people in prison right now, do you know many of them have mental health issues? A lot of them. So now, so then where's the cutoff point? So then if you do that for her, then shouldn't you do it for the rest of the population? The vast majority of, a lot of people who commit crime, they have mental health issues. So now why are they held? I'm going to give you the other argument. So why are they, why are you punishing them but not punishing her? If, if, if it's the same thing. So it's, so then are we saying which kind of mental health is it? Because they're, go to a prison, go to a prison or jail. The people have serious mental health issues. Do you think this person deserves death penalty? Now, are you asking me as a human being? Like me personally, Evie? You. I will tell you this. I don't like the death penalty. This is personal. I'm not, I'm not pro or against it. And this is why. The reason why is I always try to envision because I work for government. If I would be comfortable, taking the life of another person, I would be the one either administering the, the charge or administering the, the actual death of that person. And in my soul, I cannot do that. I personally rather would see the person imprisoned for the rest of their life. The other thing is, and that's just more from a human standpoint. I'm not saying people have to agree with it. That's just me personally. Oh, again, I appreciate that. Yeah. However, however, it actually costs more money. If you're, now people argue money. If you look at money and what it costs more expensive, more expensive to give death penalty than to keep you in prison. It's cheaper to keep you in prison. Did you know this? You didn't know this. So it is more expensive to give somebody the death penalty because of the legal process that you have to go through to give somebody the death penalty. There's an appeals as a system, because you have to look at it this way. If I kill you, it is irreversible. So there's a system that goes into place. If you give somebody the death penalty, you have to run through these systems. Respectfully. None of these kids are ever going to be back. No, no, no. If we're talking monetary. No, but to me, it's the concern I have is justification because all these other mothers are like, I'm also going through psychosis and postpartum. You know, I'm also going through all this stuff. So now these kids are not going to live a full life. So what do we do? Do are we? Okay. So it leads me to the next one, which is the consequences. So we have a major, right? What's his name? Major. Uh, do you have his name? Major? Um, major Nadal Hassan. Okay. Who this guy, I remember him. You remember him, this guy a few years ago could have been a 2009. If I have the dates, correct. It's 2009, 2009, November 5th. He decides to kill 13 soldiers. This is a major, not a second Lieutenant, not a first Lieutenant. It's a major. You have to go and do your job. He kills 13 soldiers. 32 other soldiers get injured and a hex that comes out and says, we're going to do a public execution, old school style, and we're going to live stream it. Okay. Do you think, do you, do you have the same position with that as you do with Lindsay Clancy? Cause this is your, you you're wearing the uniform. You're wearing the uniform. Should there be consequences for this major stocks to sell? You might be missing the opportunity. If you're not being positioned. 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Which means by the time I'm done explaining this, you could have basically done it. Still haven't started? Hey, better late than never. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pickup fees may apply. I, you know, it's hard for me to answer because I understand what the government's trying to do. They're trying to dissuade. They're trying to stop this stuff and they're saying we're being too relaxed. I, I will say this. I am in agreement that if you do something, here's how you deter bad behavior. Just to be clear. One, I have to know I'm going to get caught. I have to know I'm going to get caught. If I think I can get away with it, I'm going to do it. That's one. Hang on. The other aspect is, is there a punishment or penalty? But here's the other thing I'm going to say to you. If you're dealing with this type of thing where I'm a martyr and I'm okay with dying, I'm going to flip it back to you, then Patrick, does it matter if you do a public execution? I'm a martyr now. I, I'm, I'm okay to die. So it may work with a certain population of people. It will not work with all the population of people. So all you've done is make me a martyr because I'm okay to die. I was okay to die in the first place. I just happened to not die when I was executing it. Was this guy the major? And I forget his name that we just said, was he okay to die when he did that? For sure. For sure. Yeah. So if we do a public execution of him, is it going to set recognition? Yeah, I'm a martyr. Look at, look what they're doing to me. I died for the cause. So that's why I would just really look at it and not project as Americans what we think will deter crime, because I don't know. I don't know. It will deter crime with a certain population of people. But with this population, when it's terrorism, where I believe that I am doing the work of my God, of Allah or whoever, I believe in this cause. And I, I will give my life for this cause. That's where I don't think that will work. What's this, Humberto? To make sure he doesn't get the recognition. Yeah, the dumping bin Laden in the sea, which I don't have a lot of questions with that one, but that's a whole different thing. I don't want to get into that one. Yeah, I get that argument as well, because now somebody else may be, oh, my God, I'm going to do it because I'm going to be here. I'm going to do it. I'm going to stand and be sure I'm going to be a hero. Yeah, go ahead and do it to me. You understand what's going to happen? Because with my religion, after life, I'm going to get this and I'm going to get that I'm OK giving it up for this. And it's notoriety. You're going to televise this. Everyone's going to see me die for my cause. Do you do you see what I'm laying out? Like most people who do this, they want notoriety. We used to what was the the things that we would look at for for a perfect attack? Population, a lot, a lot of a lot of people in one condensed area press. If there's no media to see it, what's the point of me doing it? I want you to see me do this. The enemy does it that way, meaning number back. In the days, do you remember the story of Vlad the Impaler? Yes, Dracula. Right. And he did it because there was a leader called Mohammed the second. And, you know, who was in love with his brother and he used him as a man toy and all this stuff and that one hundred thousand army and one by one by one. I think he ends up I don't know what the number is, twenty thousand people impales just to make a statement. I'm like, you're going to do this to us. We're going to do this to you. And it showed how capable he was now. He died in a brutal way himself. That's what's going to happen to you eventually have to be able to understand that if you do that to others, it's going to backfire on you. I just think when you're dealing with an enemy, sometimes, you know, even this guy that Vinnie was going back and forth with. By the time the message was done, he was very nice. He was no longer being a it was almost like, you know, you act tough because you're around people, but you're not going to be tough once the reality is you're by yourself. You know, I and it goes back to what you said earlier, which I want how you take this contradiction. It's like America is seen by the enemy that's very naive. And I agree. I agree that we're saying, I lived in Iran 11 years. So yeah. I'm Greek. I know. They're naive. So do you think it's a good strategy to maybe sometimes change that approach and say, you know what? Yeah, we're a little bit off as well. You know, we're also capable of doing X, Y, Z. You cross the line with uniform. Here's what we do with you. My biggest concern is the uniform part. I get it. It's the uniform part. You can't cross the line with uniform. We have to make a massive example out of you. Now you have a different position with that, but that's kind of how I process that. I don't, I want to be frank. I don't have a position. I'm really, I'm just in the, I don't, I wish I said I had a right answer. I don't, I don't have a position. If they do it, they do it. If they don't, they don't. I was saying initially, if I had to pull the trigger, me personally, if they were like, Evie, I'm in uniform, you go do it. That would be just hard for me as a human to do. But I understand, obviously I was trained to take lives. I was in law enforcement. So I understand that. I'm just saying that Patrick, sometimes like, I don't know what the right answer is. And I understand what the message is to send to those in uniform. I think, but I also think that this might backfire on them too, where everyone's like, look how horrible the U.S. is. Look at what they're doing. It's, they will demonize it. Nothing we do is comparable to what the enemy does. I agree. But we're the ones who are, we're the ones who are being assessed by everybody. And here's the problem. It's our own people inside that are saying hateful things about us. Like the, the, the enemy isn't, the enemy is within. There's got to come a time where you're like, it's okay. Say whatever you want to say about me. We're not, we're a, if we go to sleep worrying about what they're saying about us, that's also a way that they're winning. We're scaring the, you see, there used to be a time in 2019 where I was afraid of talking about politics because I ran an insurance company and I was about to sell it. And 99% of my wealth was tied to that company. So I was paper rich. So when you're paper rich, you walk a little bit different because you don't have cash in the bank. I only had like a couple million dollars in the bank. I'm not wealthy yet. I'm paper rich. Oh, Pat's so rich. No, I'm not. I got, you know, just my mutual fund account. And so eventually I saw what was going on with COVID and I'm like, do I just sit on the sidelines? And not say shit because, you know, people are going to criticize me. And that's why I'm like, I can't do that. I can't do that. And I started and I started talking about it, but in a fair and reasonable way to say, here's what I stand in. These are the questions that I have. And it led to the audience coming and saying, all right, at least many of us started having some courage to talk about it because the fear of getting canceled, the fear of all of that is a form of them winning. And so my concern is, you know, we've ever seen the, the scene with Christopher walk-in when he says every once in a while, the lion has to wake up and show everybody what he's all about. Do you ever seen this clip? I live in New York city. The, you know, I don't care what the data says. A lot of jackals and lions. There's, I don't care. I don't care what the data says. People don't feel safe when you release people on their own recognizance, when there are no consequences and there is no punishment for what you do. You have repeat offenders, people, people get away with it. Even turnstiles like arresting people who jumped the subway. You should absolutely. Because first of all, the psyche of that person's like, you're all sheep. I do what I want. I'm not going to pay. You're all the dummies that are going to pay. You have to, there have to be consequences to the things we do. Even small consequences. It's if you don't nip the small things, the big things get, it's like, I have a toddler. I correct all the small stuff because I'm trying to prevent what from having a big problem later on. So I deal with the small infractions she does so that they don't become bigger infractions. Human beings are the same way. You have to, there has to be consequences to human behavior. I am with you. Now, if we're looking at an international scope, the United States, do I think that we get poked and bullied and taken advantage of a hundred percent? I worked, I would travel to foreign countries. Like we had diplomatic passports. So when we would go overseas, I would deal with foreign countries and even deal with foreign countries here as a liaison. And I would see certain countries would just be extremely difficult to deal with. Certain countries would just push back to push back. Certain countries would just do things. There were times where I was in Russia. And I remember the Russians were causing so many issues that I went to the state department person. I was like, where's your teeth? I literally said this. I'm like, how could you let this happen? Cause we were completely getting rolled. And it was, it was so bad that it was dangerous for my protectee. I said, this is ridiculous. How are you not? And I remember my state department counterpart at the time was just super meek, super quiet. I'm like, get, get someone on the phone, fix this. Nothing. So I do think that there's a level of weakness and meekness that does not suit us. That has to change, but it has to change internally in the way we execute and do things. And there have to be consequences internally for the population of people who break crime, who do crime, who break the laws or hurt people. I'm, I'll give you an example. My husband, former law enforcement, 30 years, secret service, HSI. And we always had this debate about, you know, would you arrest this person or not? I know these are family dinners and, uh, he will put somebody over. And there were times if a person was young or something and they were intoxicated, he might call mom and dad and be like, look, come pick up your kid. He was also a police officer in like a rural area. Um, you give me that scenario. I'd be like, I'd be throwing cuffs on that kid. Who's right. I'd be throwing cuffs on that kid because you just let that kid go. You're assuming his dad's going to fix him, but his dad obviously doesn't have that much influence because he took the car. He's intoxicated. And how do I know next week? He's going to be like, Oh yeah, easy. I didn't get caught. And he goes, kill somebody else. My husband's looking at it from a different perspective. He's 16. He's dumb. Do I want to put this on his record and ruin his life? His parents are coming. Everyone's, you know, it's a more of a community human thing. Who's right. You ever seen the movie, the judge? Yes. Robert Downey, uh, Robert Downey jr. There's a, this, this story is that with him and his son, you know, where the son screws up and he puts him in jail, but he lets the other guy go. And the other guy comes out and kill somebody. And he is, what's the right move to make? Yeah. It's a very difficult conversation and everybody has a different position, but I think we've gotten soft. And I like that. We are imposing a little bit. And the worry is listen in America, whoever the president is going to change the next four to eight years. So ideas are going to change. So you, you know, then he gets soft again and you get hard again, you get soft again, you get tough again. So it'd be interesting to see, uh, what direction we go with this. I think a big part of the reason we're also having a problem. If you think back to the eighties and nineties, crime was very high at that time. You go to New York, pull up old, pull up. You look at me like it's my podcast, pull up old photos of New York city subways, graffiti everywhere. They were one of the most dangerous things to be on. And then they came in and they cleaned it up, started locking everybody up. You put graffiti up, you had handcuffs on you. It was right. And graffiti when it was really nice. Yeah. Put the eighties graffiti eighties. I mean, you don't want to get on a subway. Look at that. Look how, who wants to get on that? Look how dangerous that is. And it was not just the graffiti, but the inside. That's what I grew up in. I, cause I grew up in New York. You didn't get on the subway. It was, it was dangerous. You might get stabbed or whatever. So they clean it up in the nineties, mid nineties, it gets cleaned up. So nineties, this is post Juliana, Juliana. Yes. Yes. Juliana is a clean house. The nineties, the two thousands, 2010s twenties. So that's what, 30, 30 years ago, 40 year. So you have a new generation of people who what didn't grow up around that. So they don't know what it was like before you had these laws, these laws or consequences that help minimize this stuff. See, but that, that, that validates my point because it does at the time, the NYPD commissioner was an old friend of mine, Bernard Carrick. He passed, passed two years ago. Yes. And we spoke right before he passed, but Bernard Carrick was you know, K K Bernard Carrick was a he faced these mobsters like a mobster himself. He wasn't soft. He's like, Oh, this is what you're going to do. No problem. This is what you're going to do. And remember, this guy was a former commissioner of the New York correctional facility. Yes. And then he went from there to being the commissioner of NYPD. And you know, his son is now a cop as well. His son is now. Yeah. I think he's in Jersey though. I don't think he's in New York. I think. So yeah, I don't know. I, um, uh, security is very important and they just changed their standards by the way. And when good or bad, they lowered their standards in what way? So you used to need, um, 24 credits to become a police officer and not, uh, excuse me. You used to need, I think it was 60 credits to be a police officer. And, uh, I guess they weren't getting people. I mean, who does it? Who wants to be a cop now? I mean, you're gonna, you're always, it's just terrible for you. No one supports you. I mean, you're, you're going to punish the cop the criminal. However, they dropped it from 60 to 24 credits. Yes. You only need 24 credits now to be a police officer. And they lowered the age as well to get younger people, which I think is also another detriment because when you're young, your brain's not what age to what age? I think it's at 20 and a half now. Oh yeah. 20 and a half. He actually got rid of, I think last year, the year before they actually got rid of the mile and a half run and they just put it back. So they got a mile and a half to get hired within a certain window have time they got rid of it because people can't couldn't pass it at least now they can't pass it back then people i think were healthier more physically in a better physical condition but people were not passing it and now they just reinstated it because you need it if you can't run you can't be here we go college credit center academy 60 credits now 24 credits minimum application age 21 before 20 years six months so they dropped it slightly academy college credits awarded 36 before 45 after mile and a half run time eliminated in 2023 they just put it back in 2025 police entrance exam less frequent so the police exam back then when i took it it was like every few months if you were if you could take it it was a difficult thing to take because they had enough people and now they're giving the police test every month and i think they i can't say this for sure i want to be careful but i think they made it a little bit easier to pass you so yeah they can't fill the positions because nobody wants to be a police officer every question yeah this major nadal okay who killed those 13 soldiers what questions would you ask them to have what questions can the military ask to identify to prevent this from happening i'm thinking more preventative right preventative how could we have prevented this no one has background no one has commitment no one were he lied no one was guilty was how could we have prevented this do we know how long he let me ask let me ask one question do we know how when he first entered the military versus when he did it how long was he a service member be a major takes a decade i mean you're not going to be a major like uh there you go 88 to 09 so his service he was there for 21 years so something happened within those 21 years so it's not his hiring i don't think that's the issue because if it was he would have taken action probably sooner so there's something that happened between him getting hired and him committing this incident that caused this and i don't remember the case as vividly at the time i do think one of the important things is and i don't know if the military does this so i'm speaking without knowledge do they do reassessments of people once they're in so for example in the u.s secret service every five years they redo a background check on you so is there something that the military does and they may already do this i'm speaking completely ignorantly here where every number of years every five years you reassess an individual i might lean to saying no just because the military is so big and vast that this might be a very difficult thing to do but i think a situation like this would be doing every every several years doing background checks on people again looking at their socials looking at their devices saying hey can we look at your device and they're like no i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know give me your instagram handles looking at their looking at what they're doing conducting interviews of their family and their neighbors when you you do a background check on someone you go and talk to their family and their neighbors this guy was born in america okay and he uh uh started believing that violent islamic extremism is what he started embracing and came to believe that killing american soldiers was a religious obligation that's what it was his primary motivation religious radicalization during his 2013 military trial he acknowledged that he had switched sides in what he considered a conflict between the u.s and his religion he believed attacking american soldiers was justified because he could eventually be deployed to fight muslims overseas this was azan's extremist interpretation of islam not a position representative of muslim generally it's what it's saying here he was about to be deployed to afghanistan and this was an important development immediately preceding the attack the sound was a psychiatrist assigned to fort hood this guy was a psychiatrist that yes that's correct as a major as a major so part of this is preventative what can we do to prevent his colleagues had warned about him um according to senate investigation hassan openly expressed extremist views during his medical training he gave presentations discussing violent islamist islamist ideology some colleagues considered his behavior alarming two officers described him as a potential ticking time bomb despite concerns about his conduct and professional performance he remained in the army he was promoted and subsequently ordered to afghanistan we could have prevented that no so let me say this so then not to oversimplify it whose fault is this that this happened really whose fault is it you just read me all these indicators whose fault is it is it his or is it the military's because you have all these indicators and usually folks will communicate in some way that they're going to do something so you have all these indicators that were never followed through nobody believed it nobody followed it through so where's the responsibility really lay buy stocks to sell you might be missing the opportunity real traders still hear the noise they just know when to stop listening to it find and research opportunities to fit your strategy with thinkorswim trading platforms from schwab discover features like robust charting nearly unlimited customization and built-in risk management technology plus get 24 7 support from real trading specialists that's schwab trading learn more at schwab.com trading this episode is brought to you by google chrome you think you know a browser but gemini and chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks gemini and chrome is here for it ready to make anything online make sense there's no place like chrome check responses setup required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus hey ryan reynolds here from mint mobile now i don't know if you've heard but mint's premium wireless is 15 a month but i'd like to offer one other perk we have no stores that means no small talk crazy weather we're having no it's not it's just weather it is an introvert's dream give it a try at mintmobile.com switch upfront payment of 45 for three month plan 15 per month equivalent required new customer offer first three months only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see mintmobile.com shag here what's it like to buy a car from carvana 100 online and get it delivered to your door let me tell you your car is here mr shag thank you mr carvana guy can't wait to take it for a spin only the best for you mr shag hey have you always been so big tall and handsome not always i was 6 10 once seven days delivered or returned mr shag not that i would you never do no i never do so buy your car today on carvana delivery fees may apply see our seven-day return policy at carvana.com the real cost of a break-in isn't your valuables it's the feeling that your home stopped being safe simply safe keeps danger away from your family with three layers of protection one smart ai cameras and live us-based agents help stop intruders before they break in two we sound the alarm at points of entry three our agents request emergency response plans starting on the first day of the month around a dollar a day right now get 60 off your new system with professional monitoring at simply safe.com spotify outdoor deterrence plans start at 49.99 a month visit simply safe.com licenses for alarm license information yeah but i mean if if that that can be taken for 9-11 there was warnings about a 9-11 attack agreed right if we can we can use that to uh in a lot of different cases my my position is i'm all about what could we have done to prevent it prevent it from happening i'm a business guy so you have to think about prevention i'm in the life insurance business we sold a million insurance policies to us it was all about if god forbid someone something happens to the breadwinner what are you going to do mary you don't have a job you have three kids he makes eighty eight thousand dollars a year you guys only have seventeen thousand dollars in the bank it's preventative well he's only 39 years old it's preventative right so yes i do believe that but you know from your standpoint you're saying the onus from the tone i'm getting from you is the onus is on us the u.s military the onus is on us and here's why the u.s secret service actually does national threat assessments they try to because we've always been looking for the threat the threat towards the president typically because that predominantly that's really where it started right and then it's expanded to other things and places and individuals so one of the things that they look at when it's the threat assessment they look at what common patterns do we see amongst people who commit um these types of attacks so one of the things he's hitting is he's hitting people who commit these types of attacks he communicated it they typically communicate it they tell people the people around them um will say something and so what i see is a neglect to act to follow through um just side note a lot of the attacks that this united states secret service is able to thwart do you know how a lot of them get mitigated family members or parents contact law local law enforcement authorities and say i'm worried about my loved one they're saying these things wow so one of the ways you mitigate it you're not going to be able to mitigate it you're not going to be able to mitigate it you're asking me how to mitigate it for sure it is teaching people having the awareness to say something now here my only concern is people did say something but to me is hey they're telling you this but the military did not seem to follow through or create any consequences or follow it through to such a degree to prevent this that's where i see the prevention you have to have a red flag that's why i asked you how long ago 1988 i don't know what they could have done in 1988 years 21 years. years. But when you hear something, you must do something about it. And I think a lot of institutions have been relaxed. Yeah. So this again, so this is why the five words for today's conversation, two of them were justification and consequences, right? So the consequences, if we don't have solid consequences, then that behavior happens. Then another person justifies, I can do it as well. And I'm going to go be a hero. So there's got to be a balance between that. Both of us are parents. I think you have two kids, you said? I have a four-month-old and a four-year-old. Four-month-old. Good for you. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm not sleeping, if anybody wants to know. So there's got to be consequences, right, in everything you do. And some have to be higher and you got to make examples of them. You have to make examples. I'll tell you this, the criminal justice system, if we're just talking criminal justice system, and this kind of falls into that, the punishment. Typically, we've been a system historically where we punish people. We punish people. We punish people. We punish people. We punish people. We punish people. Actually, if you look at the population of prisoners, if you look at the world population of prisoners, how many people are in prison, 25% are U.S. prisoners. Then the rest is the rest of the world. So you have to ask yourself, why is one out of every four people in a prison or jail for the United States? That's one. So what's happening, Patrick, internally in the U.S., where people are committing crimes? And there's a couple of theories, but there's a couple of theories about it. So the other thing is you must have consequences. So historically, we have been, you commit this crime, you get caught, you get punished. We were big on punishing people, creating consequences, which is a nicer way to say it. However, we've reverted away from that and we become a bit more of a rehabilitation system, which means the belief in like, can we help people? Can we habilitate? Can we rehabilitate people? And what we're finding is that you cannot. But some folks, you can't. You folks, you can't. Also, if you look at the crime, the most crime, it tends to be a small group of people who are repeat offenders. When I worked a case, what was the first thing I did? I ran the rap sheet. I ran the rap sheet. I need to know who you are. If I had no rap sheet, that meant something. If I had a rap sheet, that meant something. So if I see somebody who's been arrested again and again and again and again. It's a pattern. It's a pattern. What are we doing? Most, most. I can't give a percentage, but I can't give a percentage. I would say the vast majority of people I investigated had rap sheets. It was very rare for me to find someone with. It's a big training ground. Once you go in, you're learning. That's a university on how to even commit different types of crimes, right? You're going in and you're coming out. You know, but, but to me, there's a level, there's also people that are in prison that sold weed. You don't need to do 20 years or 10 years or whatever it is for selling weed. That's a different, some of the stuff that we have is just, but you crossed the line and you killed 13 soldiers. I don't know what to do. Maybe, you know, you go in the middle of the ocean where people go shark fishing and you drop a bunch of blood in there and you track the fish and then you drop their bodies there and you record it and you release it. Is that a positive thing? I don't know. Is that one way to go? Is it just, Hey, don't tell anybody and just kill them? Is it public execution? I don't know. Would you, would you be able to do the public execution? I asked, I told you, I'm going to flip it on you. I'm curious. Would you be able to do it if you were in service and they said, we need you to publicize it? I wouldn't even flinch. You would do it. And by the way, I would take the risk of going to hell and God not being happy with my decision. And I will deal with that judgment on judgment day. You cannot cross. So I gave this and I'll share this with you. Say you're my sister. Okay. Say you're my wife. You're attractive. You're attractive. I'm delusional if I don't think people are going to flirt with you when you go out. I'm an idiot. I'm delusional if I think men are not going to slide in your DMs. I expect it. I'm a powerful man. You're delusional if you think women are not going to slide in my DMs and flirt with me. It's very normal. Now, if it's a coworker that does it, he crossed the line. What are you doing? If it's my best friend that does it, that's tier one. You don't do that. This is a major in the US army. Heavy. You crossed the line. And now you are not for us. You're doing it for another country who's an enemy of ours because you don't want to go face them. There's a part of it where, you know, as a Christian man, we are all about forgiveness and all this stuff. And I get that. But sometimes that uses certain people in a different way where there will be no hesitation. You crossed the line and you compromised. We allowed you to give you the greatest honor of wearing the US military uniform. You're a patriot. Your job, our job is to defend this country. You do this. I'm good. It would be, I wouldn't even flinch. I appreciate you answering. I respect it. I don't, I don't have any, I don't. And I get that you take in your position and I respect it, but. I think punishment should exist. And I'm also not against it. I'm not saying I, I, I understand it. I think it's wrong. I think there's many things that are wrong. And I think to think that people cannot be, should not be policed, to think that everybody is good, to project our, our, our values and belief systems onto other people and think that they are like this is, is naive. It is foolish. We are not living in reality. And this is why we are dealing with many of the issues we have now. I am absolutely, um, I think we are very lenient on crime and, you know, reminds me too of the Leviathan. If you've ever read it by Hobbes, it's like a political theory book. And he talks about Hobbes. You said this was written a long time ago. Hobbes says the human being, like as human beings, if you leave us by ourselves, we're going to look out for our own self interests and we're going to hurt one another. Like we are not to be left alone. We can't, it's kind of like a Lord of the Flies thing. We are not to be left alone. We are not able to be without a system to, to stop our bad behavior, that you must surrender some of your freedoms to government or to institution to police the rest of us. That's what he says. And I, I tend to think that he is correct. And if you look historically, we've been trying to correct human behavior from thousands of years ago. Code of Hammurabi. What is that? Eye for an eye. So even from back then, thousands of years ago, they were trying to figure out how do I control human behavior so that you don't hurt me? How do I punish? That's like the earliest form of criminal justice. If you're going to think about it. Yeah. You ever seen the movie fallen with Denzel Washington? Which one's that? I like his movies. It's on my side. No scene with detective Hobbes. You have to watch this. Okay. You have in Elias. What's his name? Uh, that guy right there. He makes the movie. He makes the movie. He makes the movie. What a freaking scene. He's on a death penalty. He's, uh, they're about to kill him. They show the scene when he's getting killed and the spirit of, yes, I've seen it leaves him and goes into Denzel and gets passed around. It starts to get passed around. Yes. Detective Hobbes. It's a great scene. Uh, last time I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw him. I saw a little bit. I'm typically a political. Just catch me up on it. What do I need to know? You don't even need to know anything about it. So these two guys are facing each other and the guy goes missing for nine days. Okay. He was missing nine days and this is more of a body language read. Okay. It's nothing more than political. It's just, do you believe him or do you not believe him? So it's a big race, massive race. Ken Paxton, maybe not the most exciting candidate Republicans have put together. James Tallarico, extremely talented, polished, very charming, charismatic, right? As long as it's genuine, Patrick, I'm okay with it. He, for nine days, he says he had the flu. In one scene, he says he went to urgent care. Another scene, he says he went and met with his physician. This reporter's asking him, see if you believe him or not. Go for it. I went to the urgent care here in Dallas and, uh, and I was diagnosed with the flu. How bad was it for somebody who wants to know, is this just like in bed rest or did you ever have to go to a doctor or a hospital? I just went to my primary care physician, uh, but, uh, it wasn't anything, uh, worse than, you know, a nasty case of the flu. Uh, and last night it got so bad that I went to the, the urgent care here in Dallas and, uh, and I was diagnosed with the flu. How bad was it for somebody who wants to know? Remember, this is the biggest race is the third biggest race in the midterms that's coming up. It's nine days. You go missing 10 days. You go missing two, three weeks before the election date. Do you believe him? No. I mean, he just lies. He, he, he, the book there, he says two different stories, right? Right. So no, like right off the bat, it's a, it's, he's lying. So you want one saying, you know, when one is, I went to my primary care physician and the other is I went to urgent care when it was like, oh, it's nothing. Right. And then the other was, oh, it was something. So I'm getting to do, it's a perpetrator. It's, it's the guys I would have in the interview room. That's which story is it? Really? Well, yes. I, I'm, I don't know him. You're asking me to do just a purely. more longer in the conversation to see if she has more content i would have to but what you do in a scenario like this i would corroborate it show me a receipt show me a medical document show me something that says you went here okay i'm gonna do something if it's okay with you go for it yeah let me hit pause i'm gonna take it to the beginning i'm just gonna do it because there's multiple things just hold on so i'm gonna just do play explain play explain you are off the campaign for more than a week okay so one thing these are just indicators it doesn't again i want to clarify like it doesn't mean somebody's absolutely lying or not these are things i notice one he's standing very stiff right he's not moving a lot he does move his arms a little bit towards the end but he's very stiff like he's not relaxed so if i have a high cognitive load if i'm about to lie i'm not going to move around a lot because i'm working so hard to to pay attention and to not mess up now you might have this with guests if you ever see them i don't know if you've had it where sometimes people are very stiff it's just because it's so the load's so high so typically you can't see this with people who are gonna lie right i'm so on i'm so worried i'm gonna lie i really need to be on so he just seems very stiff that's just body just just indicators uh your campaign said you had the flu what happened yeah smiling doesn't mean anything uh it's bad it means something and it doesn't mean something he's smiling a lot it just seems like a really odd interview to smile at unless this guy always smiles in every interview he does in the past that's what i would look at but why is he smiling so much now smiling can also be a sign of i'm super super nervous and a lot of people when they are very very nervous patrick they smile a lot or they laugh at inappropriate times but that can also be a red flag here right why are you so nervous why are you smiling so much it's a stress reliever so you ever see people who laugh at inappropriate times and they're like oh my god appropriate times and you're like don't laugh that's not funny they're relieving the stress in their mouth interesting yes so that's just one other thing i'm catching let me see what else yeah i got the flu um and i'm feeling much better um and i'm glad i had a chance to recover you know if you don't so yeah i got the flu i'm feeling much better and i'm glad i had so he's taking it a different direction it's like i just had the flu smiling the whole time he makes good eye contact he's holding good eye contact to recover you know if you don't take the opportunity to get well even sicker and so uh i'm glad we made the decision to just take okay i don't like this i'm glad we made the decision who's we you know what just reminds me of remember anthony wiener years and years ago when he sent an appropriate appropriate picture and then uh they were interviewing him and he's saying we are doing this we are doing that we are doing this who's we it's you so who's we because he says we a couple of times we did this and we did that and i'm glad we decided this who's we you decided so when you bring we in it's a great way to be like it's not just me it's got my my all my people back here so that's a bit of a red flag who's we you don't need we if you're typically being transparent telling the truth better and and now i'm glad to be back on the trail you've talked about how you uh you're diabetic and that has when diabetics get the flu it could get really bad how how bad was it for somebody who wants to know is this just like in bed rest or did you ever have to go to a doctor or hospital i just went to my primary care physician so i'm glad you're back on the trail we know he's like he's saying a different story urgent care and here's his primary care physician not the same thing so you've got two completely different stories which liars i'm not saying he's lying but typically who who they change their story they people have a hard time remembering their lives especially when they're stressed and he might be trying to change the story and make it seem something like it's not you know a nasty case of the flu um and so i was in bed and you know drinking like lots of liquids uh unfortunately the campaign made me work from the campaign made me work from home so the we is the campaign it's me and my campaign so let me ask you another one those are the things i catch so okay here's another one is this is a call um that they made to a place because they're saying that he went to a mental institution yes because it was a threat right this is the call made to a linder center of hope a guy just calls and says what happened to james talarico i want you to assess the lady's voice if she's lying or if she's telling the truth sure uh uh go for it okay so nothing for james talarico um buy stocks to sell you might be missing the opportunity real traders still hear the noise they just know when to stop listening to it find and research opportunities to fit your strategy with thinkorswim trading platforms from schwab discover features like robust charting nearly unlimited customization and built-in risk management technology plus get 24 7 support from real trading specialists that's schwab trading learn more at schwab.com trading this episode is brought to you by google chrome you think you know a browser but gemini and chrome that's new it can help you with practically anything on the web like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration blog or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks gemini and chrome is ready to make anything online make sense there's no place like chrome check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like shopify they have the tools you need to start and grow your business from designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond shopify can help with everything you need there's a reason millions of companies like mattel heinz and all birds continue to trust and use them with shopify on your side turn your big business idea into sign up for your website and get started with one dollar per month trial at shopify.com special offer observe the north american dad 50s great polo collection he enters his vehicle information on carvana an offer appears in minutes remarkable he squints reads it again smiles and says dang that's a good offer the highest form of approval no haggling no hassle no one called him boss he's still on the couch a style punishing sell your car today on carvana.com pickup fees may apply ryan reynolds here from mint mobile with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much please for the love everything good in this world stop with mint you can get premium wireless for just 15 a month of course if you enjoy overpaying no judgments but that's weird okay one judgment anyway give it a try at mintmobile.com switch upfront payment of 45 for three month plan equivalent to 15 per month required intro rate first three month plan equivalent to 15 per month required intro rate only then full price plan options available taxes and fees extra see full terms at mintmobile.com yes it looks well this is what it's today it looks like just as she was just discharged this evening that's why i don't have it oh he was discharged then okay and this is the hope they should be okay i'm sorry this is and i'll make sure i have the right this is hope blender yes uh-huh okay and you're in hamilton ohio no we're not in hamilton no we're in mason okay so that's why he's on a system he's been recent okay a second for me all right just i want to do it in bits so a couple of things so we have a long pause before 10 seconds because she's trying to figure out what do i say she doesn't know what to say she's confused she's just like uh what do i say nobody briefed her to be like don't say anything so to me i hear that woman's like am i allowed to say something should i say something is it a family member this lady doesn't know she's this poor lady's in over her head she probably is not supposed to say anything she's probably not and by the way they commented afterwards and they said uh linder healing center has refuted this they have made a statement that talarico has never received treatment at the linder healing center which is what they're supposed to say they would never are they saying we did not say they're they're saying we never treated him let me read it to you one more time so they said they're saying if they're saying we never treated him that's different than we did not we never received treatment he never okay they have made a statement that james talarico has never received treatment at linder healing center okay so they're saying we never treated him yes so then the i would i would suspect they're not gonna lie i would think that they wouldn't lie because i i'm not gonna lie if that's my institution i don't think i would lie and say something like that's a pretty brazen thing to lie to say this person never came that that's just the only thing where i would pause there right and this is their tweet and on the bottom viva fry who's a lawyer we've had him on multiple times he said i practiced law long enough to understand how answers can be true and still misleading the statement says talarico has never received treatment from linder center of hope you could question the use of the term treatment was he a patient they never treated or did he somehow some other entity or psychiatrist administered the treatment which brings us to the most likely distinction if the statement is true yet misleading other distinct entities operate within the lender hearing uh center of hope such as linder center of hope professional associates from what i understand this is a private practice from operating arm uh operating within linder okay so so it's possible that they're using language to get out of it and it's it's a separate entity and they're trying to do that because they can't they can't say anything it's a it's a what is it hipaa violation right for sure it is yes with her at one point when she's also answering him in that previous thing she's like yes or a question so he left and she's like like she doesn't she's not giving she's trying she doesn't know what to say right right she's not you could see her she's confused as to what to say and she understands should i be saying this should i not be saying this so i don't think the woman's lying again i don't know um but i can understand that they're using language maybe to possibly hide from it but i think to me the biggest red flag honestly is he's giving you two completely different interviews patrick he's saying two completely different things that to me is like which is it and you know and i don't know this man but you're also running for congress should you not when you're in those positions you're responsible for the things you say yeah it's is it congress or senate by the way it's one of the two senate okay yeah you know you should be very the biggest thing is that a lot of people are maybe if you did this in july maybe you did this in june but you're doing it in october 10 days in october right before it and by the way he's still the odds are still on his favor of winning so it's not like it's changed anything with calci on where he's going to be at with it they're still saying this guy's going to be winning the senate race in texas just a big race well uh before we were you going to say something i just think it's really important and again i don't know this i'm i'm a political but i really think it's important for people people tend to vote emotionally rather than really looking at things and assessing things so if you have indicators that still have indicators that somebody's i think somebody is saying they can't do they're not accurate i would just ask people to really be thoughtful and assess a human being on what they're showing you rather than what you are projecting onto them and what you want to believe but what we do is like we put blinders on it's like and the thing is even if you had something even if you had some proof patrick that this was true that he lied the people that want to vote for him will still vote for him they're committed it's not going to make a difference no it's like uh it's like one once i've decided yeah it doesn't matter it's um i hear what i want to hear even if you tell me something rational and logical here i don't hear you i've made my decision so it's it's it's weird it's like the way we are as human beings highly emotional and we don't allow new information in even uh it our objectivity is is is completely just taken we think we're objective but we're not and we're not i hear what i want to hear what suits me and what suits the decision that i want to make yeah i mean listen it's one of the biggest races we'll find out on november 3rd what happens but uh before we wrap up obviously i really enjoy talking to you and uh i told you this off camera you know you've done multiple interviews with some of the best interviewers out there and you still come up with new content which is great that just says you have a lot of experience can you can you share with us the book becoming bulletproof uh it's done very very well uh protect yourself read people influence situations and live live fearlessly what what can somebody find in this book so i actually wrote this book i wrote a couple of years ago and it's still going it's like published internationally so i'm very humbled by it but it's basically i took i broke it up to three parts first part is a mental armor resilience protection and i um second part is reading body language a lot of what we just did reading body body language verbal language and also how to know if somebody is telling you the truth or lying side note it is easier to tell if somebody is telling you the truth rather than if they're lying truthful indicators are easier than lying indicators so i cover all that in the book part three is influence how to influence people um using using things like autonomy giving people a choice so like you brought up covid earlier nobody likes to be told what to do you tell people what to do you get something called reactance even if you're right even if you've got the data don't tell me what to do what people respond well to is the fact that they're not giving you a choice would you like to do this would you like to do this i feel like i'm still in control so things like that mirroring proximity influence technique so i took it and it's really good for the average person especially in business for you to understand the environment around you have your situational awareness and i took strategies and things that i was allowed to share publicly from the u.s secret service i actually read the book they had to approve it so i took a lot of the stuff that i learned as a polygrapher as an interviewer as a interrogator assessing human health i put all that in there and then the first part we did a whole thing on protection like i shared things that we did to protect the people we protected physically mentally emotionally like you know how you brought up earlier the whole victim thing you don't want to be a victim you're going to go nowhere in life being a victim so a lot of the stuff i share with mental armor and all that it teaches you how not to be a victim so you always hear people say empathy empathy is great no empathy is not great when if you let everything that happens in the world penetrate you touch you it's not good like you have to be a gatekeeper of who's around you of what you lend let in so i talk about mental armor and the things that i learned being around some really like exceptional human beings like they take in i don't want to say they take the average person either because i asked once a recruiter once and i said how do you take an recruiter make him this elite warrior how do you take the average person excuse me and make them an elite warrior and a recruiter said to me i want to forget the average person doesn't apply for this job i love that so right then and there that self-selection process you self-select yourself you self-select yourself out of it so you're already getting a certain caliber of people who are like you know what i believe i can do this i love that so we're going to put the link below folks go place the order for becoming bullet proof thank you pat evie really enjoyed the conversation with you thank you so much thank you of course handcrafted across five italian factories with builder technology underfoot it may be the most comfortable shoe you will ever own introducing the all-new flb shoe finished in new chocolate carezza leather made to move built to endure designed to impress observe the north american dad 50s great polo collection he enters his vehicle information on carvana an offer appears in minutes remarkable he squints reads it again smiles and says dang that's a good offer the highest form of approval no haggling no hassle no one called him boss he's still on the couch astonishing sell your car today on carvana.com pickup fees may apply the back on prize picks pick a shootout in the west and a boards battle in the east on prize picks you can make all the picks you want all in the same app and now prize picks is available nationwide so what are you waiting for download the prize picks app today and use code spotify that's code spotify to get 150 installing in lineups if you win your first five dollar lineup prize picks run your game must be present in certain states visit prize picks.com for restrictions and details tammy regularly hauls stuff to her kids at college that's why she shops at bj's wholesale club saving up to 25 off grocery store prices beef jerky 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