"Every woman wants to be a dirty little slut" a Conversation with a Kink Mentor

[Music] Hi and welcome to Radical Self. The podcast where we strip away the illusions that keep you performing, pleasing and playing small, so you can reclaim the power that's always been yours. [Music] I'm your host, Thorel Dirt, a tantric somatic coach, truth teller, and a mirror for your most authentic expansion. Here we go deep, we get honest, and we meet the parts of you that are dying to come alive. [Music] Okay, so we have an amazing guest here today, and I'm so excited for this conversation, and I'm trying to not. [Music] Because I already know you quite a bit, I'm not fan-girling in a way, but I'm still like, "Oh my gosh, I want this to be so juicy." [Laughter] So I'm almost like I'm going on a date, and I'm like, "I want it to be really good, but I'm not super nervous, so I feel. I feel at ease and excited." So I'm going to introduce you. So, Giulietta Chiara, is that how you pronounce your name? That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And I'm on your Instagram profile here, and it says, "Come learn to tie, surrender, and play with power." Kinoca rope instructor and Subbi Mentor. Mm-hmm. I love these. So I want to start off with the question of, how did you end up here? Like, how did you end up in this role? And what led you to be a Subbi Mentor and a rope instructor? I feel so happy. Yeah. Yeah, so interesting. Thank you for having me on, and thank you for the introduction. But I was actually talking to friends over dinner who were curious about the same origin story, because we all get into this industry in very strange ways. But for myself, I don't know anything different, because I graduated high school, and I went directly to study to be a sex therapist. So even before I was legally in adults, I knew I wanted to work in the field of sexuality. And so, yeah, I had to, when I was choosing what to do with my career, I was like, okay, I'm at a sex therapist. I had no idea you could do that. And I was like, that's what I'm going to do. Yeah, the first day I met a sex therapist, I was like, you can do that? Okay, we're going to do that. And so that's what I went to school for. And probably about my third year in the college, so almost to a bachelor's degree in the US, I had started a sex blog in order to really complement my, my studies to be able to express myself. And I realized, because even as I was learning about sex in the lens of sex therapy, sex education, I don't know if this has happened to you in some of your studies, but a lot of the studies weren't, yeah, they weren't that great. They were very basic. And I felt like they backed the texture of just actual experience. And so I started to write about my desires. I started to write reviews on toys. I started to write about my pleasure. I started to write about, you know, how to's, how to give head, like how to peg someone. These were some of my, some of my early days. And I'm from Salt Lake City, Utah, which is like the birthplace of Mormons. And so you can imagine, someone from my hometown, starting to write so openly about this in a very taboo culture, that blog really took off. And you get my social media. And so I was at the point of graduating with my bachelor's. And from there, I had started a business doing social media for other sex toy brands, because they would see mine. And they're like, damn, you're really good at this. You know how to promote, you know how to talk. And I had launched off there. And at that point, I was reviewing like three, four, five, six sex toys a month. And I was just talking about the way I liked coming. And if I liked toys and what my experience was. And so I graduated with my bachelor's. I had the option to become a sex therapist. And I already had a thriving business. And I loved what I did. So I was like, fuck this. I don't want to be a therapist. I don't want to be stuck here. I don't want to, you know, sex therapy. When people come to you for sex therapy, it's usually pretty depressing. Like you don't, you don't go to a sex therapist because like you're ready to like spice it up. You go to it, look at the therapist typically, because you're, you're having to work through some fucked up stuff. Yeah. And that was very heavy on, on me. And I was like, I just want to talk about orgasms and getting off and sucking dick. It's so much fun. And so that's how I started with that. But along the way, that's when my kink journey had flourished. And I had gotten tied up for the first time. And it just became clear over time that I was like, I love kink. I love rope. And I can't avoid speaking about it. And all the other more vanilla sex stuff is really boring to me. And that's why I grew up here. I was like, well, there has to be some woman that's relatable to other women who does this. Because when I'm winding the kink space, I'm sure maybe you've had the same experience that it all seemed dark, mysterious, and creepy. Unfortunately, the community is that shows themselves. It's not usually like the typical Joe. They're not very relatable. And so I never saw myself in this community. And I was like, every woman I know, every typical normal woman I know wants to be a dirty little fucking slut. And they want, they really want to be in this lifestyle. Maybe they don't desire to be in the community, but they don't have someone to show them, hey, this is normal, wanting to get dominated as normal. Now women didn't have this representation of, hey, these desires are really normal. Almost 99% of us have them. And I'm going to show you how to do it in a fun and approachable way. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I'm hearing this origin story only now because I've known you enough for like, I don't know, a year or more. This is, I love this. There's so many pieces in this that I love. And I relate so much to like the young you like 16 or 17 like, oh my gosh, you could be a sex therapist. Because I've had the same experience. There's this one woman here in Iceland who's very prominent talking about sex. And I remember being like, that's so cool. Like that's her job. That is so cool. And I love that you just went for it. And I totally understand that it wasn't exciting to become a sex therapist if you don't like, what do you describe the difference between people who come to sex therapy? And then your lived experience of like, what is actually fun and exciting and like, what's really interesting to talk about and think about? That's what I want to be focusing on. And like, I'm not a therapist. I'm a coach and like, coach is usually think about like, how to spice things up, how to make things fun. So I really relate to that. I love that. Yeah, so it's interesting because someone people be like, well, what did you do before? It's like, there wasn't really a before. Obviously I worked jobs in between, but like career has always been sex. I love it. And I mean, I now I feel like I also understand why we vibe so much because the same exact kind of thought process has been in my mind about I need to be the representing woman for women who want to be non-minogamous. It's like it's the same applies to the kinksine and to the non-minogamous scene like the people who are already open. And I don't know if I've talked about this already on the podcast, but like the reason why this is because people who are ready to speak up and like be open are often people who have like less to lose in terms of like social status. So they're already in some ways and like outsider. Yeah. So they're already like less relatable than the like the majority of people. And that's why they speak up. Yeah. So I love that you saw that. I don't think like I'm going to be that woman. Yeah, but you're I mean, you're totally right because when I think of of non-minogamy, I don't think of you. Yeah. We usually think of people who are already in certain diversity categories, right? Like hyperqueer, hyper out, hyper alternative. You don't you don't think of like the typical married woman in Iceland. No, suburbs like I spent the entire weekend like at a soccer tournament. So the family, the kids. Yeah. But that's the majority of society. So that's where yeah, it's it's really refreshing to see you because it's not even a judgment thing. It's like, no, it. Oh, I live my life more like you do. And you do this. So I would I would like to choose to learn from you. Yeah, absolutely. I want to dive into one thing you say you said every woman you know has the desire to be like what did you say? A dirty little slut and I wanted to say. A dirty little slut every single one. Okay, I'll me more about this because I I think like I can know that some of my audience is going to be like, yep, that's me. You speak in my language. And then there are also women who are like, are you sure? Yeah. What do you say to that? Because like I I understand. I believe you and like I'm on your page and I am so fascinated by how we can reach these women who Have not yet seen themselves in this way like have not yet seen their invitation Or they don't have that permission to like see themselves in that way and therefore go after their desires Well, like it's it's nuanced right. I do want to clarify that for some women You know the feral slutty side like that's not their cup of tea and that's totally okay I'm actually telling someone That in my 11 coming up on 12 years of doing this I can count on and five people I know who are authentically 100% soft vanilla beans. Yeah Like they don't want anything to do with it. It doesn't turn them on but that's authentically who they are What I'd dominantly see though is Women who are not tapped into this when you ask a few questions through our type of coaching What you see is that there's a lot of shame Resistance or judgment Right and I get it right because what we're young women doesn't matter the culture and what are we taught? Don't be slow sexuality don't If you express your desire you're being too much yeah, and then we it's a juxtaposition And it's like oh, but like get married and be a sexual object always be available like the whole thing Makes no sense and so a lot of women will be like oh, I'm not like that But what's really behind it is I don't feel safe enough to let my anvilistic slutty feral side come out. It's not safe for me to express my desires authentically Yes, yes 100% I like this is exactly the truth that I see as well and Yeah, I love that you said this like this is the truth and I can even I want to confess something can I confess to you? And I can fest you mistress I was just remembering are like early on in my polyamory journey. I I think it was like maybe half a year a year into it I was already starting to share with like some people and I remember saying something like Yeah, you know, we're open we can have multiple romantic relationships, but we are not you know We're not that those like kinky weird people right? There's something that I was like I'm not those people like referring to the BDSM kink scene like no No, it's not like that and There's like internalized hierarchy that I wanted to uphold being like Yeah, like I'm not those people And then I know like as soon as I said it I was like that doesn't really add up because now this is just me Saying that my type of you know openness or liberation is better than that one and that I don't want to associate with that And then it's like that actually flipped a switch in my mind when I noticed that I said this I was like why am I so closed off to this and It just made me want to be more curious So I was like, okay, I'm gonna lean into this like why am I closed off to those section or like these people where I'm Like actively advocating for my lifestyle So I actually lived this like the shame and the judgment for that type of scene So now I feel like I've come full circle and And I mean in a way it's like the first time that I'm coming out talking about stuff like this on the podcast is by having you on so I'm gonna tell them how I met you so I Went to a retreat with my boyfriend called the tantra meets pizdezm And this will lead us into the main topic that we want to cover So I went to this retreat with my boyfriend and I knew I wanted like I love tantra That's what my coaching training is built on like tantra spirituality and that opened up like a whole field for me in my sexuality as a very energetic Like erotic blueprint. Anyway, we got this retreat and My desire was to be tied up Surrender like experience more of his dominant side like learn more of these dynamics and It was through that week and a very humbling experience at that retreat that I realized that I am a very Difficult sub like it was very hard for me to surrender and I had all of these ideas in my mind of how huge would Dominate me more or better or different and like it just wouldn't stop and I had like I was almost wanting to like Step into the teacher role and tell him what to do which is obviously defeats the purpose of me surrendering and Yeah, so that was a whole journey for us. So anyway, I came out of that retreat With the takeaway I need to learn how to submit and how to surrender better like I need to learn this So even if he was doing everything right quote unquote, I just wasn't like I wasn't having it like I'm not surrendering And that's when I found you And I need someone other than him. I need someone outside Someone who reads my mind can like speak my language to help me Soften into this and that's where you came in So I would love if you would like pick up for the audience like how you helped like like if you would like Hear this story for the first time. What would you say to this that I just shared? So this is exactly you know you are exactly the type of woman that I help I Help all sorts of women but 95% tend to be these incredible Force to be reckoned with independent powerful women Who so deeply want to let go of that weight and drop into Play surrender and submission within their partnerships within their sexual interactions You know they want to know what it feels like to turn off their brain But they come to realize inside of their character arc that it's not that easy That for one reason or another whether it be the way you were raised a survival tactics society You've learned always be on guard You've learned to always be in control that if you're not doing it. It's not done right there and so When you come to me for one-on-one mentoring Yes, we come to learn about kink structures How to do things correctly, but I would beg to say 80% of the work is actually retraining your relationship to control and able to Learn how to surrender and submit even on a day-to-day level What would you say that that was your experience? Totally. Yeah, I feel like through Like through seeing you and like the work that we did and all the like homework and steps that I did Yeah, it was like small steps slowly Introducing to myself like my nervous system that it's safe from you to let go and Like a not just in the bedroom like I think seeing the the similarities in life Yeah, seeing how it's like it's kind of like the saying how you do one thing with how you do everything and the more I tried in like small ways to let go and Yeah, let go of control and Surrender that it was easier in the bedroom. So it was like this wave Like it it yeah, it had this rippling effect totally Yeah, and ironically in my one-on-one mentoring and even within my self-paced programs I always say I was like there's an irony to it because kink work is life work Exactly to what you said how you do one thing is how you do everything And My best guy friend who is like the male version of me. Yeah, he said it He it's funny. He's very kinky is also very tantric and he said something that stuck with me that I think is also a reflection of my mentoring my work or my courses, which is The 22 hours before being Slutty and kinky with someone depicts how slutty and kinky you'll be in the two hours you decide to play yeah Yeah, it happens before right like in what world are you going to submit surrender? Expect your partner to take you through this like Yeah, magic carpet ride if you don't even like trust them to do chores on their own if you critique the way that they do laundry If you don't let them plan a dinner date Yeah, like if do you see what I mean? It's like oh It's like oh, and then you want to just like magically dominate you like you have shown them every reason that you either don't trust them overlook everything they do yeah, and even if they do fuck up because we all fuck things up. Yeah We meet it with what I call our praying mantis syndrome That's the one we're gonna talk about the praying mantis syndrome King work is is life work. Yeah, if you you have to really take the work is humbling and it's something I want you to know that it doesn't just go away, right? Like I do this for a living. I know how it works to a fucking science and I get caught in it. Yeah. I still get caught in it. I still get afraid to let go of control because it's really it's not it's not the tying up It's not the being spanked. What's behind it is my ability and capacity to receive and to be able to shut the fuck up and turn off my brain and enjoy myself and I cock block that a lot. Yes. Oh, okay. There's so much here. Okay. Tell us about the praying mantis syndrome. Like how do you how do you discover this and like what is it? And how do we recover from this? Okay, so the praying mantis syndrome. So I'm gonna describe it in two ways and I have the Google pulled up here so I can actually tell you what it is and then my interpretation of it. So I have with something called praying mantis syndrome and what I came up with was praying mantises when they mate female praying mantises are known for killing their male mates and what they do is either during mating or after mating they will kill the male mantis and typically decapitate them which is interesting. And so I ask myself why. So here's the scientific reason why and then I'll tell you my interpretation. So okay, this female praying mantises sometimes engage in sexual cannibalism killing and eating males during or after mating. This behavior which involves decapitating the male provides essential nutrients for the female to produce eggs, increasing reproductive success. Males can continue mating even after being decapitated due to neural activity. So their bodies will continue going even though they do not have a head. And that's so brutal. Exactly. And so my interpretation of this in our humanness in our kink setting is something that I found within myself is that when I am with partners where I either feel for real or made up reasons in my own head when I feel that they are not being dominant enough, when I feel like they cannot handle me, when I feel like they are weak or incapable, when I want them to just overpower me and take me somewhere, I don't even think I can take myself. There's an inner rage that builds up in me. And for metaphoric terms it makes me want to rip their head off even though we're in the midst of mating. I'm like, oh, at least the praying mantises, there's actually a use for it. It increases their egg productivity. They're like, look, you've got to die because I got to get pregnant. I see the vision. But yeah, for the video that I watched is the female praying mantises are much larger. The male mantises are very small. And so for me it's like my praying mantis syndrome is that the minute I feel like I'm not getting that energy from particularly a male partner, I feel like I need to emasculate them. I get mad, I shut off. And obviously that's very cut and dry. That's very dry. What that praying mantis syndrome is saying is like, if you don't show up and perform in the way that I think you need to, I'm going to discard you. And that is so unhealthy because we're not leaving room for learning opportunities to show up. And then I was reading more on this and it says that the male praying mantises are aware that they could potentially die. And so they typically tend to show up very cautiously towards the female or they try to fight her first. So she doesn't think that she can kill them. That would be my strategy as a male praying mantis. Yeah, so all around it's really tense, right? Because you look at this and you're like, oh man, in order for the male to mate with a female mantis, they're already coming into it. Pretty fucking scared. They're like, there's a good chance she's going to fucking kill me for her own for her own use. And there's a chance she could decapitate me and keep fucking me, which is even crazier. That's wild. I see that all the time. I'm like, how often do we emasculate or energetically like castrate our partners and just think that they're incapable when really already coming in so defensive and so yeah, like so distrusting of their leader. And I think, wow, this is so rich. And I think coming back to what we were saying before that so many women carry this shame, resistance and judgment. And what humans tend to do when they feel any of these emotions is they get defensive. So it's a very fine line if you're playing in any of those, you know, alternative sexual spaces like kink or, you know, tantric or whatever. When you're doing something out of the norm and you're wanting, you have like this ambition for it to be, you know, enhancing your sex life. And you carry shame or judgment. It is so fragile so that shame or judgment to like come out as judgment of your partner. Like you like project your you know, upsets or your shame, whatever sensation you're having onto your partner because they're not making it super easy, super amazing straight away. And what I also thought about is how, because there is, I mean, just as you can see in the in the kink space, there is so much, love violence, but there's so much, you know, edge play of like pain or, you know, like aggressive behavior. There's so much of that that we do also sexualize and we do, it does turn us on. And there's the fine line between aggression and passion. Like it's so fine. And then thinking about them, the male painment is coming in knowing that they might die. And and how, you know, like, how makeup sex can be so passionate and thrilling when it's like we're about to break up and then we're not gonna. And you know, this, this crazy fine line between it being aggressive and it being super passionate. And I remember there's a scale of like how intense the sex is. It goes from like, fuck me like you like me. Fuck me like you don't know me. Fuck me like you hate me. And then fuck me like you want to kill me. Let's like the scale of like aggressive arousal. Oh, have you heard of this? No, but I like all of them. And I think that like if you feel safe enough and the that feral atmosphere is there, it definitely does go through all of these stages. Like, I mean, I feel that at least like when the passion is really hot and it's like really, I'm really aroused. I totally want to go to like fuck me like you want to kill me. Like just really go there. So I think that'll make sense. Absolutely. And I think it's interesting reading up on this that it's like the highest rate for this male to survive is to actually come in and try to overpower you first. Yeah. It's like, let me, like let me assert my dominance. Let me show you that like I'm not afraid of you because that's really you and I have spoken about this where I think maybe at the core where we emasculate is when we feel that our partners are afraid of us. Yes. We're afraid to do the wrong thing. They're afraid to hurt us. They're afraid that we are going to criticize them. But in the experiences I've had, where our partners come in with full conviction, a lit like a little bit of aggression perhaps in the way that they are. Yeah. Things and also put us in our place to be like, you're not going to control the situation. You're not, you need to wait. It's these are the people don't say to women like us. And when they do, it's like, I know, I'm drooling just thinking about this. Exactly. And I think about that because I'm like, Oh man, like when my partners come in with that level of assertion, similar to this. I'm like, as the man to some like, perhaps I won't rip your head off this time. Exactly. I might want to keep you. You might be fun for round two. You know, like, I might want to repeat this. Thank you. Nice. Absolutely. Oh, okay. So is there a solution to this? Yeah. We've been listening to this being like, Oh my gosh. Yes. I would love to open up more. I would love to show more of my feral side. But I'm afraid he can't handle it. Number one, I think that's the biggest fear that I hear in like women who are spiritual, who are a ton of drag, who want, know who want to be more slutty, who want to be more open, the fear that he can't handle it. And then secondly, like, I'm afraid I won't rip his head off. You know, if he's not doing the thing. So what would you like, how do you, how do we get out of this? I mean, as always, no matter what it is, the work starts with us. I mean, it could be so easy for us to be here and be like, "Tell them to be more dominant. Tell them to take more workshops. Tell them to, to fucking figure it out, right? It's so easy to just. - It's so wide, it doesn't work. Don't do it. - Yeah, don't do it. Like, you're just projecting. And so the first thing I want to really recommend as much as it's not fun and it doesn't feed our ego, it's compassion. And so, you know, it's not the compassion sometimes, because in this case, it's at the expense of us feeling potentially unsatisfied or unfulfilled, but when I think about a dominant partner, a partner who wants to lead us into surrender, let alone women like us who were usually very on top. I think there needs to be compassion for that is an easy thing to do. Often times we are asking our partners to go against societal norms that would be the best way to get one. Without the consent and structure of Kink or explorative sexuality, would actually really put them in dangerous or questionable positions. Much like you and I have probably had the dialogue in any kinky woman, it's kind of like the "How come I'm a feminist woman?" But I want to admit, I want to do all this. Like, have compassion for what you are asking your partner to do. Particularly if you do have a male partner. We have told, you know, good men have grown up being like, we need to respect women, we don't need to hurt them, don't lay hands on women, and all of a sudden, you're like, spit me, slap me, choke me. Yeah. You want to kill me. Like, do you know how insane that is? Yes. Yeah. It's not going to be a night and day process for your partner to be able to get there. You need to create safety. And the way that we create safety is by doing it together. So I almost see it as like a, it's a two person thing, and we need to get a little to get a little. There is no, and this is where you, you know, another part of us comes in, which is patience. So the patience is, are you willing to let your partner try and to do that with the space of, I'm not going to critique, I'm not going to get salty. Obviously, we're allowed to give feedback, but, I think that we're going to get our partners and ourselves to be confident in this, is if we, a space where it could either go really good, really bad or be meh, but we learn something. Yes. You can't both come in and be good at this. No. No. And what I thought about as well, because you, I mean, because I, I'm a switch, so I can be both dominant and submissive. And recently I've been, I've been enjoying my dominant site more, not with my, not with my male partners though, but in other areas. And what I came, what came to my mind is like, a part of the, the submission, the responsibility of the one who's submitting is to convey, you know, what the fantasy is. And when you talk about compassion and patience, like, you also need to add in, like, paint the picture of, like, something of what, what it is that you want. Like, your, your dominant partner is not going to read your mind. And you need to, like, at least give some, definitely, as you said, this needs to be a conversation because they're not going to be ready to go against all the societal norms to just all of a sudden slap you and spank you into all these things. So you also need to give that permission and like show that you are open to this and you actually want this and like show an enthusiastic interest in this. To kind of, yeah, start leading them the way of where you want them to pull you. And this sounds, I think that this is the one that always makes me flinch the most. But it's like, if we think about, for anybody listening, whether it was kinky or not, you know, the last time you had a sexual experience or an intimate experience with someone that was kind of meh, that didn't hit your expectations, that perhaps left you disappointed or wanting more. Ask yourself one question, which is, where can I take more responsibility for my part? Yeah. And, you know, what, like, what were the things that were left unsaid? What are the things you did not communicate? What were the things that you put up with? I can, you know, like, I'm going to call myself out just for, for ships and giggles. I had a sexual experience last night where I did a pretty good job about ching for what I needed. But I ultimately left pretty unfulfilled. And my responsibility in that is that I chose to go forward with it, knowing that it was going to be disappointing. I, I chose, you know, I think it hurt. Nothing bad happened. I still had like an ample amount of fun. But, you know, I stayed probably like a little longer than I needed to. I knew this person and I probably weren't like completely aligned. But you can't sit here and then bitch and be like, oh, this person fucking sucks. You want to know how to touch me? They don't know how to do this. Yeah. They're, you know, they're also not a mind reader. Yeah. I could have given more instruction. I could have put the pause button to vouch better for my needs. I could have been inquisitive and asked more questions about their needs, their reservations, etc. And so I didn't even see that with all my skills, all my knowledge, where have I unfair expectations on someone who doesn't know me hasn't. I haven't given them a roadmap to guidance and, you know, where am I choosing to continue doing things that aren't really aligned. Yeah. And then I can't hear you like, oh my god, everyone sucks. Like, come on. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's kind of funny because I really relate to this. I can go into experiences like this as well and being like, yeah, you know, it wasn't great. But I'm still responsible. I hold responsibility. I don't go complain about it. Like I don't go into victim. So I think it's, I think it's kind of a funny, a funny place to be at being able to go into situations like that. You know, I feel like I'm playing with the, the amount of evapching for my needs and like playing with how much I want to speak up and do these things. And then there's also a part of me is like, I'm just feeling lazy right now. I'm not going to do it. And I also know I'm responsible. I'm not going to be bitching about it. Like I'm just choosing to not do it now. And I think it's funny to have the awareness to do that and then walk out of it being like, could have been better. I also just wasn't feeling it that day. I think that's a good one. I want to ask because I, I know you talk a lot about solo submission. Yeah. And what we're talking about now, because my experience coming into King was always with the partner. Yes. And there's two things that came to mind. I want to hear about solo submission. But before that, I recently heard this quote. I think it's by Terry Rio, the relationship therapist. And he said, and I think this relates to like how you, how you do one thing is how you do everything. Because we're talking about couples or like people who are in partnerships. And he said, if you are unhappy in a relationship, act like it. Like if you're not happy in your relationship, act like it. And I think the, the disease that many people have, especially women, because I talk more to women, is that we don't really show our upset. Like sometimes they do, but we're also really good at pretending that everything is fine. And not, not saying I didn't like the sex, like this didn't feel good. Like this touch doesn't feel good. So, I'm just seeing how, like number one, how the lack of communication in a relationship overall. And like women's, you know, mediocre satisfaction in relationship translates into how dissatisfied they are in relationships. And then adding on to, like, and now I want to do all these kinky things on top of that, which is just a dumpster fire, I think. And then, yeah, what you can say about coming into kink in a partnership. And then maybe versus a solo, because that's, you also have experience with that. Well, it's interesting what you're describing, right? Because you're already laying a, like a shaky foundation of intimacy, which full intimacy would be able to be seen in both our pleasure and both our distaste. Yes. And oftentimes what happens is particularly like you said, for women, we bottle up our distaste and then it becomes resentment. And then resentment easily becomes distrust and emasculation. Yeah. Like at least that, that's how it comes out for me, which is like, instead of being like this really didn't feel good. I didn't really enjoy when this happened. I would keep it inside and then be like, oh, like what a little bitch, she just can't do it. So wealthy and then you want to jump into kink, which is a lot more edgier. it's inherently more risky and inherently revolverable. There's no place for that energy to be there and for that to be healthy. Yeah. Because now, should you, should both you and your partner, you know, attack each other with like really horrible feedback, now it's getting at a much deeper place. Yeah. Then there's a difference between, I didn't really like the food that you made or like you didn't really do that chore well and it made me feel like you kind of dropped the ball versus being like, you hurt me too much. I don't like the way you touched me. Yeah. Or like you ruined my orgasm or something like that. It's so cool. Yeah. We'll so much more fucked up. And once you get that type of feedback there, people shut down. I know I do. Yeah. Why would a partner ever want to attempt to dawn me again? If they feel like you can't speak in the moment and you build it up as resentment and then it just like it's just fucking flat out mean. Yeah. And so the kink particularly, all of things but it depends so highly on your ability to express yourself in the moment and to be able to communicate your distaste and disappointment with eloquence and care. And like even yesterday, I feel like I did a really good job with that where I was able in the moment. I'm talking like butt naked. Yeah. Wow. Legs up in the air to be like, hey, this is like, this part is really great, but like this part's not really turning me on. Like this is what I actually need. And so to be able to have that discussion there versus like look at this poor man and be like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah. Yeah. I've gotten that feedback so many times when I have sex with you people, they're like, you talk so much. I'm like, yeah. How else are we going to have fun with this? Like how else am I going to be enjoying myself? I need to tell you what I want. And people think it's overfishing. Right. Same thing. Like the other day, I hooked up with the same person and I have a curved glass dildo. He went to use it on me. And instead of curving upwards, it was like the other way where I was like hunched. And I was like, oh, I was like, I was like, I was like, hey, just shift it to the anatomical position. Sorry. I know. I'm going to be fun, you know, in terms of, okay. Just stay away. But I was like, hey, can you flip it? You actually need to flip it. And he's like, okay, cool. But imagine you don't say anything. And then afterwards, wow, this person just doesn't know my body. They just don't know what the fuck they're doing. Like, it doesn't, that's not productive. And it doesn't work that way. And you're not going to build trust. And you're not going to build the polarity and the tension. Like you, I love, I don't know if this happens to you. But I, even though it can be hard, I ultimately love when partners give me feedback or in the moment they correct something because right, you're doing the name of pleasure. You're correcting me or you're giving me guidance in the name of us being able to have a better experience. Yes. I absolutely agree. It is so good. And I even did this for, I think it was, I don't know, that was after, I don't remember what Fazy was. But I did make a point of, like always just saying something, like not necessarily feedback, which is like, I made this promise to myself because I was in the process of learning to trust myself more and learning to like advocate more, even if it's what's tiny. Like, even if it's just tiny things, it's saying like, oh, can you, can you like put this pillow here? Can you do the one tiny thing better? And then it was, it was also an exercise in building trust with the other person. So once that had been established, and the person would do the thing, usually it would feel so much better, but it would also feel so good, like to my nervous system just to say to myself, I can speak up. I can get my needs met and it's going to feel so good. It's like, in these micro steps, like building that trust with myself, which is obviously going to like, escalate and have that positive feedback loop. And like the best reward is just more moaning, like more pleasure. I mean, I don't know of anything better than like a partner giving me feedback. I fix something. And then I can just hear the pleasure is amplified. Like, that's what I want. That feels so good. Yeah. - But girls, I mean, perfect segue, 'cause that is exactly why I have now started guiding women in particular in solo submission. - Yes, tell us about it. - Because solo submission, you know, people hear it from the outside and they're like, ooh, kinky, you just dominate yourself. I would say solo submission, which obviously inherently means doming yourself is actually more of a lifestyle mirror. It's a window into how you handle these things. So for example, like you're saying that this exercise that you practiced with yourself was in order for you to build trust, to be able to like, no one trust that you can speak up for yourself and get your needs met. And so if we do that from a solo submission level, right? If I'm talking, if I'm subbing and I'm talking to my inner Dom, everyone has their inner Dom. Your inner Dom feels like that big voice that likes to like boss you around, tell you what to do. Sometimes your inner Dom is an asshole and you're gonna have to work on that in other ways, right? - Right. - But that was one of my favorite things that you made me do. It was like cultivate that inner Dom that was so fun. I still used that sometimes. So that was, that was amazing. - Yeah, you have to really have that dialogue, right? So now the polarity and the relationship is with yourself. And think about this, like there's no bigger, more fucked up humbling there. Where if you just take a moment even right now, right fucking now, anyone here listening and you ask yourself, what do I need in this moment? You know, whether it be like I need a sip of water, I need to adjust my body, et cetera. - Yeah. - What happens often in solo submission that fucks people up is they realize, oh my God, I have a ton of needs, but I don't listen to myself. - Yeah. - Oh, I don't meet my own needs. When my body is asking for this, I don't do it. When you need to do something for my own good, I'm gonna put everybody else's needs before my own. Now, if that were an actual partner, if that were an actual Dom where you said, these are my needs and they're like, eh, don't really matter, would you be with them? Painful, would that be? - Yeah. - It'd be so fucked up, but that's the mirror is that we are expecting the world from someone else. We are expecting someone to show up like a valiant hero. - Yeah. - So, you know, oftentimes underdeveloped people in kink, they're actually looking for a savior, they're not looking for a power exchange. And so I'm like, ooh, I want this person to meet this need and this need and execute like this. Like bitch, you can't even do that for yourself. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Your mouth is fucking dry, you don't drink water. - Exactly. - You needed to do this in order to be relaxed, you put it off until the last second. Like you're being a super shitty Dom to yourself, but you want so much to be this like God-like attentive figure to you and your needs. - Mm-hmm. - The feeling that I get when I hear this, I'm like picturing myself in the more kind of dominant role, talking to a sub, it would be like, it wouldn't feel good to dominate this person because it wouldn't matter, no matter what I did, it wouldn't satisfy the need. It's like pouring into an endless well because the person isn't receiving it, it isn't in that right relationship with themselves where I don't know what it is, like that healthy relationship of getting needs met and it's like a healthy ecosystem that we want to have, but if a person doesn't have that, yeah, it doesn't matter who's gonna dom them and in what way it's never gonna land. - What you're describing is a lot of what we discuss and inside of, I do have a solo submission challenge and we discuss this a little bit, where what you're describing is when you're trying to play with someone like that, who ultimately, like just, somebody who ultimately cannot, they're not in their power, right? Like they are looking for a dumb or a sub to really fill a void. - Yes, it's a void, exactly. - To fill a need that ultimately is never gonna be filled because they can't fill it themselves. You're no longer in a power exchange and Kink, what we're playing with is a power exchange. So what that implies is that both of you need to be in your power in order to exchange it. If we're not playing with a power exchange, what you actually want is a mommy or a daddy. - Yeah. - You want a parent, you want that figure that's gonna come in and they're gonna solve your problems and they're gonna take care of you and they're gonna fix all the things that you can't fix, but that's not a power exchange. - No. - Is why it feels so unstable and particularly for a dumb, that's even scarier because you're projecting these needs that come with a very real consequence. Should your dumb drop the ball, right? Like if your dumb fucks up the day and then you become emotionally unstable, like that's terrifying, right? - Yeah. - You're like, oh, that's a big load. And so we sometimes ask in the community 'cause I think there's a lot of narrative about finding the perfect dawn. finding the right, I like to ask, are you a submissive worth leading? Yeah. Like I, if I'm an adomeral, I'm like, I don't want to lead a child. I want to lead a powerful woman who, who wants to just, who wants to hand over that power because they trust me so much. They're people on their own. They can do everything on their own. They don't need me. Yeah. They want me. Yeah. The word that's in my mind now is gratitude. Like the, the, the sub that I want to lead and of course the sub that I want to be as well is one that's grateful. Like if you're already grateful for like life and the, the person who's going to be doming you, I think that should be the leading energy. And it, I think it's similar to relationships that you want to give to a person who is grateful. And yeah, that's why I think that's such a, a magic practice for people to, to practice gratitude. I mean, so cliched, so, so mushy, so overused in the, the whole self-help work. But I, I really think if I think about what kind of a sub I would want to lead, it would be the one that's already grateful. They're grateful. They're in their power and that, but that's where the eroticism lives. Because if I put myself in the dominant role and you're a switch, so perhaps this is easier for you to do. But if you step into a room and you have your sub there, you know, the sub that so many of us women desire to be, your dog is going to feel much more capable to, to lead this like beautiful, strong, independent sub who is just grateful and ready to play with that power versus walking to a room and feeling these unspoken expectations of meeting to be saved or met in ways that they refuse to meet themselves or think like the world won't meet them in. And all of a sudden that like it's very, it's, it's just dirty energy. It's just very like unclean. It feels conditional. It feels like it comes a lot of strings attached and yeah, like again, you're no longer playing with like a clean, fun, power dynamic. It's already kind of self-refailier. Yeah. I can feel, panjably in my body, the different in these two. Okay, I have two, two points that I wrote down that I wanted to talk about. I think I want to start with pain and pleasure. So I'm not getting ready to compete in a high-rocks race, which is very trying on the body. So I've been needing to do a lot of sprint exercising, like running the high incline on a treadmill. Of course, it's like, it's been winter here in Iceland. So I've been inside in a gym running on a treadmill and running super fast. And I have such a big rat inside of me that does not want to do this. And she's loud when I start my practices, she's like, why are we doing this? So that's been an interesting journey. But because we're talking about kink and I was joking with this question, like, are humans the only species who inflict pain on us just for fun? So can you talk a little bit about pain and like, why? So for somebody who is very new to kink and is, is hasn't found themselves in the, in the mindset of wanting to be that feral little flood. Like, why is pain nice? Like, why do we want to, why do we want to have pain? What is good about it? What can we get from it? Okay. So there's physiological and then there's like fun spiritual. So physiologically, the area in our brain, the process is pain and pleasure. It's the same area of the brain. So at the end of the day, pain and pleasure are both a type of arousal. It's, it's, it's a route, it's being, it's a area of the brain is being aroused, whether it be in a panicky way or in a pleasure way. And often for people, you can mix both. Like, sometimes, you know, there's things that like, they're like slightly painful, but you're like, ooh, that actually kind of feels good as well. Like a lot of times. Yeah. Right. Like a deep tissue massage is a really good one. I like to always compare like ice baths, you know, like the first 20 seconds, like you're going to die and then afterwards you're like flying. Right. And the thing is both pain and pleasure. Also, you know, what do they do? They send out the happy hormones. They send out the, they, so oftentimes like our body doesn't really know the difference between some of them. And that's why that can be fun to play with. On the more spiritual level, our, my interpretation of the energy is that pain is presence. When you are in pain, you are so fucking present. Like when you, like, I'm sorry, when you stub your toe, your train of thought goes to the fucking toe. It doesn't matter what's one of you. It doesn't matter what conversation you're having. It doesn't matter if you're like crying over someone. Now you're focused on the toe, your sweet little toe, who just went. Right. And so it's funny because I don't like, I don't even like saying that pleasure is presence because a lot of us are so disconnected from pleasure that it doesn't matter how someone stimulates us that if we're not prepared for it or we're not able to receive it, you know, it's the difference between someone giving us head and just feeling like someone's down there. Yeah. Just fucking wound or, or being able to receive the waves of pleasure, but we're not very well connected to that. No. When we are in pain, it is our human instinct to be present with it because our survival is that we need to do something about that. And so in kink, when, you know, in kink, we play with what I call a lot of controlled stressors. Yeah. A lot of things that would typically turn on our survival instinct, a lot of things that would turn on our pain receptors, a lot of things that would send the alert signs. We play with them in a contained, safe way in order to, you know, play in our window of tolerance. Yeah. And that's the sweet spot. We all have a, we all have a limit, right? Some of us higher than other. A lot of people kinky or not will say, ooh, I have a high pain tolerance or I can handle a lot more sensation, you know, to your point, like, I'm sorry, if I'm getting a deep tissue, if I'm not getting beat up, I like don't want the massage. You know, like, I'm not trying to fall asleep in a massage. I'm actively seeking it because when I'm getting it, I'm super present. And then afterwards, I feel amazing. And similar to that is usually what happens after we experience a lot of pain. Is that when the pain is done? We're like, oh, oh, my God. There's like the emotional thing of like, wow, we really got through that. I'm so strong. I'm amazing. And the endorphins of the endorphins. I mean, maybe even, you know, getting off on the relief of not being in pain. So pain is presence and a lot of us lack presence. I see it particularly with my shabari work. Like once you do suspensions with shabari, it's very uncomfortable, very painful. But for women like us, your brain turns off immediately. Yeah. I cannot think in any capacity when I have to be present with that pain. I have to, I'm all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm feeling like discomfort and sensation and places in my body. I didn't know fucking existed. That's a level of presence that we're all looking for from pleasure, from partnership, from sex. But yeah, if you even hear, if you're listening, if you like pinch a part of your arm, pinch your own nipple, like do something to just stimulate a little tiny bit of pain immediately, you probably can't listen to what we're talking about. You're like, oh, yeah. But what I've been hearing is like, pain is presence and pleasure could be present as well, but we're not really good at that. It's not good for our survival to be focused on pleasure too much. So, I mean, most of the women that I treat and men as well in my coaching, they need to practice being present with pleasure. And oftentimes, just like we were talking about before that shame and judgment that can come up. Those voices can be very loud when you're experiencing pleasure. Like, oh, it's the right way. All of these thoughts can come up. But when you're in pain, your mind is off. So maybe coming to presence with pleasure through pain is like a shortcut. I mean, that's what I think King case is. It's just amazing. We've hacked the system with King. It's like, okay, we found a way to make this feel highly pleasurable in less time. I mean, like, if you get a good, good spanking or something that really gets your presence in your body, then you can feel so much pleasure, so much freser. I'm curious. I have a question about your work and to see if this happens. Because when I think about it too, is that particularly maybe in our spaces, sexuality spaces, tantra spaces or just human spaces, we are so avoidant of pain. And the development, it's like all these things on like how to feel good, how to optimize, how to particularly, I think there was a wave of our work where it was like, how to be in your pleasure or how to, but we're never, the thing is, it's like human emotions and experience doesn't work. that way. If you ignore your pain, whether that be physically emotional, etc., you only ruin the depth and capacity that you have to experience pleasure. If you want experience pleasure, joy, happiness, you also need to let yourself feel all the things that you're not letting your feel feel. If not, you just numb and performative. And so, yeah, kink is that shortcut that all the sudden rewires the brain that says, "Pain is safe to feel. I can sit with pain. I can experience discomfort and nothing bad is going to happen with me. I can sit my shitty feelings and my shitty thoughts, you know, for playing with like humiliation or degradation." This controlled type of emotional pain. So, for example, you know, I'm a powerful smart woman, but if I have someone, if I'm but naked and I have someone call me like a stupid good for nothing, whore or bitch, I get to play with the pain of being called that, of not being the powerful woman or, yeah, you know, I get to channel all the taboo of like how women are treated in society. And all of a sudden, I get to just sit with a discomfort, which is also sometimes a little thrilling because you're like, "What are you calling me?" Yeah. There's these taboos. And so in kink, it's like all of this is allowed. Yeah. All of this is allowed versus when I was in other sexuality spaces, it'd be like, "Oh, no, no, just pleasure. Just a just things that feel good, just this." And like we live a life of suppressing the things we don't want to feel. Yeah. And then we wonder why we're numb. Exactly. I mean, that just feels flat to me when you said that like this space, no, only things that feel good. Like, "Oh, that's like, I'm already bored." Like, "No, I don't want that." No, no, no. And yeah, I mean, my work is very tantric. So in the coaching that I do, I specifically lead people into these uncomfortable sensations that they don't want to feel, usually emotional. I'm mostly working with people emotionally. And there's the saying that if you numb the pain, you numb the joy, which is exactly what you said. If we try to always stay away from these uncomfortable things, we're never going to feel the heights. If we avoid the depths of the pain, we're never going to experience the heights of the joy or the pleasure. So I think that explains why playing with that pain and enduring it gives us more access to being present with pleasure. And I think that it's exactly that. Like, the reason why many women don't feel as much pleasure in sex and they're not able to be present is because they are avoiding so much. They're avoiding so much grief and, you know, pain and anger. They're avoiding so many many sensations that they can't be honest. Like, they can't be honest with their partner about how they feel because they don't want to be angry. They don't want to be seen as angry. And they can't handle, you know, his reactions when he feels rejected. So these are like, that's the territory where couples and women in long-term partnerships are really missing out on that pleasure. That's why I love this quote. Like, if you're unhappy in your relationship, act like it. Like, show what's actually happening. And it hits. I can think of all the times where that would have been way more productive and useful. Yeah. Yeah. Because like, really good sex comes when things are real. Like, when it feels like it's real, you're really connected with a person who's actually there. And it you feel like you are being authentic. And that's what you can't really fake the kink. I mean, or usually when you are talking about kink and you're being more vulnerable, you're not faking anything. Like, I'm sure probably people try. They probably don't always go straight to the point. Well, this is so juicy. I have one more thing before we end that I wanted to mention. We're, I wanted to hear the story. So I saw that the other day, you invited your grandmother to join a rope workshop. I did. And they were so beautiful. And I was like, I was so healing to see. I would just love to hear the story of like the culture and the background and your relationship to her. Like how it happened. Yeah, absolutely. So I invited. I taught a shivari workshop in Argentina where my family is from. And my invite and my grandmother to come and be present and to watch. And she had the time of her life. And so the backstory on this is, you know, I'm very lucky. I come from a sexually open family. No, there's no judgment. No, anything, you know, it saved me a shit ton of trauma, which I'm thrilled on, you know, me being a sexual human being was not a surprise. There was no, there was no surprise me coming out as bisexual like, or kinky. I've never had to hide any part of who I am as a sexually being. And I'm that really, you know, yes, it comes from my parents, but that also inherently means it comes from my grandparents who set up the stage for my parents being this way. And so I'm so open about what I do. I just want to take a moment to be like, wow, that's so beautiful. And like, I just want to take a breath on how lucky we are that you had that background. And then you can be so much more free to give us like your magic. So thank you to your parents and grandmother. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, they're, they've always been so open. And I've never felt taboo with any of this. And so I went to Argentina. And obviously, like, I'm so much deeper into my shibari career now. And because the last time I went, I wasn't even certified from Japan or anything like that. And so my grandparents, they, you know, they obviously have a lot of questions as as many people in their mid 70s might, which is, you know, what is this about? Why do people do it? What is what is the intention? What does any of this mean? And I just looked at my grandma and I was like, why don't you just come? You know, like, it's, I can explain to you obviously on paper, what, like what this is. And they totally understood, you know, getting tied up the trust, the power dynamic, the sensation, the mathematics. But I had her joined for the second part of the workshop. And we had like set up a little chair for her. And I'm teaching people how to do suspensions. So I'm teaching people how to tie each other, lift each other in the air. Obviously, you're witnessing people either in bliss, some discomfort. You're witnessing, you know, it was great. This room was a fucking zoo, right? Like some people were like kind of like naked. Other people were a little like sloppy in their ties. Other people more precise. And I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off because I had so many students. And I thought my grandma was going to be timid. But no, no, no, she was walking around the room, taking photos, looking at people's ties, talking to people. She's an artist herself. And for her, she's like, oh, like all I had to do was bring her into a room and not tell her anything. She's like, oh, there's artistry. There's design. Look, how beautiful these people did it. Wow, you can tell these people are really connected. Or it looks like a lot of trust. Or wow, that person was a little bit of pain, but it wasn't a bad thing. It was interesting to see them move through it. And so it was a beautiful window to just show my family what I do. And this isn't the first time I hosted a rope jam for my family in the US with all my cousins. And that was super fun as well. Wow. So it was really, really, really beautiful because like my younger cousins and their mom, my aunt and stuff, I was like, yeah, no problem. But yeah, the grandparents is usually my new. I have many things I disagree with on my grandparents. And I have many things I do that I don't think they're ever going to see eye to eye. Like when I describe that I do psychedelics and I do drugs recreationally, my grandpa cannot wrap his head around that because they came from an era of like, do drugs is bad. But the sex stuff, they're like, whoa, yeah, and do whatever. Yeah. And so I was a little, yeah, I definitely hit an edge being like could potentially be weird. But no, it was so much fun. And I'm going back in September, October, and I look forward to bringing my grandma to more. Yeah. Wow. Oh, I love that. I mean, I have a very special relationship to my grandma, but it's not there. It's not at that level, but that's amazing to hear. I love it. And I, it's been so fun to hear more about your background and your origin. And I think it's, I mean, I take great pleasure, I think it would say, in doing the work that I do in being as open as I can be. And I feel like it's my way of giving back from all the priorities that I have of like living in a safe country. And then I see the similar in you, in having this open, liberated upbringing that you've had. And I think it's amazing that you then give all your gift to the world of showing like the lifestyle that you live and all the other things that you have. So I feel like we're similar in that. Yeah, it's a really beautiful way of seeing it. I've never thought about it that way. So I'm very, very, very grateful for that. Yeah, because I get a lot of messages from people who are so grateful that I speak up about the things that I speak up. And you know, the things that I talk about on my podcast, they're so grateful to hear the voice of this and to be able to see the representation because they could never be publicly. in the same way, or they don't think that they can. And to me, it doesn't feel that hard. And I think it's amazing to hear for you as well. Like this was never, it was like a no-brainer this using the career. And yeah, I like to be reminded that even though it feels, may feel easy for you and me to do it, it is a huge gift to many people. So yeah, just wanted to. - Okay, that's actually me as well. - You're the permissiony slut. - Yeah, absolutely. I think that I was thinking about adding that to my Instagram by being a permission step, because that's really what I feel like my work is. Being a permission step. - I would agree. - Wow, okay, I would love to do this again, 'cause I think there's so much we could talk about. If women are now drooling thinking about all the things that they could experience by learning more from you, where would you want them to go? - Yeah, there's two places. So if you want to learn more tastes of my work and the way that I operate, I think I reflect a lot of that through my Instagram, which is @JulietaKiara. And we want to see all the ways that you can start working with me now. You can find those on www.JulietaKiara.com. And there's a variety of options to get you started, whether that be from absolute zero to experienced and ready to grow. - What are you doing? - Praying mantis. - I mean, the praying mantis, I think this is a lifelong journey we are on. - Yeah. - So working progress, but I thank you so much for having me on. - It's been so fun. Oh my gosh, so fun. Time has been flying. I love this. I mean, obviously you've done so much for me, so thank you. I've been very proud to say I have a kink mentor. I'm very proud to say, I'm really working on my stuff. - It's been, yeah, it's been amazing. - You are a stair student, so that also helps. - Yes, I believe I am. - Thank you so much. And I hope everybody goes to follow you on Instagram and find your work for more. - Thank you everybody. (upbeat music) - If this episode moved something new, I would love to hear it. Send me a message on Instagram, at Rise With Orhinder, or follow any of the links in the show notes to explore other ways we could rise together. Until next time, keep choosing Truth, Power, and your own radical self. (upbeat music)