Speaker 1If I've learned anything in like this last year of developing relationships with some of the realtors in our community is that it's really just about providing value. You got to have a giver's mentality because the reality is with these realtors is like you're just not going to be able to provide them as many leads as they can provide to you, right? And of course, when they're able to refer you, you know, not only is your customer acquisition cost.
Speaker 2Every moving company in North America wants a realtor referral partner. I mean, it's hands down probably one of the biggest partners that we as moving company owners need or look for. Almost none of them have a system to actually get one though. Matt Young, aka Matty Mailers, built the tool that changes that. Realtor landing pages, listing data, even scratch and sniff cards. I mean, come on, it doesn't get any better than that. Cold emails on autopilot. And today we're bringing them back. It's Matty Mailers on Moveify Mondays and welcome to Moveify. Let's go. Matty's in the house. Thank you so much. Oh, buddy. Well, listen, you built iHaul iMove. You built movingletters.ai. I remember when you first kind of launched this, you know, we've had you on the show to talk about, how important it is to get mailers out the door and into homes, you know, right away, right when that listing drops as fast as possible. But now, I mean, this platform gives moving companies everything, listing data, the direct mail, the cold email infrastructure to open realtor relationships at scale. Dude, every time you come back on the show, every time we co-host and do fun recaps of conferences and get together, you are always one step ahead. And just for, this is like, you know, your PSA notice, this episode, we're, this isn't like a, you know, moving letters sponsored episode. You know, Matty even said in the beginning, he's like, dude, I don't want to make this into like a big hoopla. We're not sharing screens of things that are going on. But what we do want to talk about in this episode is the importance of that realtor relationship and the tools that are available right now to make it happen. So, buddy, like, where do you, where do you even want me to get started on here?
Speaker 1Yeah. I mean, there's a, there's a lot going on in our industry. And I think like when, when movers are thinking about, you know, you know, realtors, we're, we're all chasing them like a fresh piece of meat, man. I think of like the jungle, right. And we're all just lions because the lion behind me. Right. And shout out to my Leos out there. But, you know, like, but the thing is too, is we can't really necessarily treat them like that. And I think it's also providing upfront value. And if I've learned anything in like this last year of developing, I think it's also providing upfront value. And I think it's also providing upfront value. relationships with some of the realtors in our community is that it's really just about providing value. You got to have a giver's mentality. Because the reality is with these realtors is like, you're just not going to be able to provide them as many leads as they can provide to you. Right. And of course, when they're, they're able to refer you, you know, not only is your customer acquisition costs fairly low on these ones, which leaves a lot more room to give to them. And that's one thing I've learned in this last year is, I mean, every week or every other week, we have one of our realtors, we have one of our realtors, we have one of our realtors, shout out to Treasure Davis team here in Calder Springs, they sell about 400 homes a year. And we had developed some relations, you know, kind of, you know, a little bit of a relationship, just do the fact of kind of opening up from a cold email. And Treasure had, you know, contacted me now she's a Tom Ferry coach. So very great realtor in our community. So shout out to her. And we're able to go there do a lunch and learn. And now we've just developed some really great things with them. So but you know, we do box drops for them. We bring cookies every two weeks. So just seeing the stuff that, you know, we're able to go there and do a lunch and learn. And now we've just developed some you can go out into your community and do today to open the door. And I see movers time and time again, kind of a little frayed to open the door. I mean, it is hard to get these doors open, right and break through. And I think there's some creative ways right now, especially with AI and data. You know, that can really open doors for Pete for, you know, more movers to hopefully,
Speaker 2you know, get in contact with them. When, you know, I you start you start looking at and we were actually talking in a group text this morning about some of the moving companies that have just like blown up, you know, hey, I've been around for only like six years. And wow, I'm really going to be at eight figures or, you know, those that you've seen, choosing certain areas to grow, whereas others are going, dude, I'm struggling, things are really slow, things have totally died down in my market. I'm thinking about selling trucks at the end of the summer, you know, really bad July's. And you then start going and you think about how these realtor relationships work. And you touched on it, you know, you can do these things, you can do these lunch and learns, you know, the constant being in front, like meeting with meeting with realtors on a regular basis, having your sales team, and especially as the owner, building these relationships is so vital and so important. It's never the, you know, I always get the big kick when the guys go, Oh, yeah, like, I stopped by their office, you know, I talked to maybe a managing broker or a realtor, and I gave him some cards and some pamphlets. And, and that was it. Right? I'm just hoping for the phone calls to start ringing. It doesn't really work that way. And a lot of the times in the, you know, what all of us have been used to is kind of that, right? Like, okay, hey, when can I come and do a lunch and learn? Can I join a caravan event? Can I, you know, do little pop ups and stop by, bring some treats, some muffins, some cookies, whatever we can kind of do to, you know, smooth the realtors, but you actually created something even more now, right? And that realtor referral channel about having, having, an opportunity to give a realtor something extra, because I find when you go to realtors and go, Oh, yeah, hey, if you give me that referral, like, I'm going to give you a 50 bucks or $100, you know, or like, here's a gift card, like, they're like, I made $20,000 off this house, like, I don't really care. I actually don't care about any kind of gifts. I really just want to make sure that you're giving value to my clients and that they're not phoning me saying, thanks a Can you kind of dive deep into this new offering that you have at Moving Letters, but then why this could actually help build a better relationship and a better offering to realtors? Because I like this. Give me the sales pitch of, you know, I'm meeting with a realtor. What can I offer them to make this interaction even better?
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think, first of all, you know, just kind of being vulnerable and honest. Like, I think that's one thing that's going to be number one is that, hey, like, we do know that they're going to be able to refer us much more than we can refer them. And what I've realized about, you know, working with some realtors in our area is that providing them upfront value is going to be the number one, right? And when we say value, it's value to their clients. It's not really to them. I don't think $50, $100, like you said, Mark, you know, does not excite them to, you know, refer. So how can you go ahead and do something that's very different? And so creatively, what we've done is we have offered, you know, no obligation, you know, $100 in packing supplies delivered to any of your listings. And so, you know, some of them will send them to us before they even hit the MLS. And we're able to just co-brand it with them as well. We've, you know, added some, you know, co-branded stickers with their logo on it. So not only does it have our information. Yeah, on the box. And we'll slap their brokerages sticker directly. On the box to the ones that we deliver for their team. And then we say, hey, you know, obviously this is behalf of them. You know, we wish you the best. And like we've told some of the brokerages we work with, there's no obligation to use us. We don't care if we drop eight a week and no one gives us a call. This is what we can do for you because we know the chance to get just one, two here and there referrals. It means a lot. And of course, because we're not paying a whole lot for the customer acquisition, like, let's be honest. We're willing to kind of eat that to kind of equal some of what we're spending on. Marketing in other ways, but they've really liked that. They said, wait, you'll just do it with no obligation. It's like, yeah, no obligation. Now, obviously, if you have some realtors out in your area who are going to do this ten times and they've never referred you, well, maybe you might want to question that relationship a bit more and say, hey, what's going on here? But that's yet to happen for us. We have not experienced anyone who does that or anything like that. And I think it's just also doing the right thing, Mark. Like, you know, actually, and I hate to say this because I don't want to, like, say, hey, like. But I want to be real right, please. On the first I'm not going to beat around the bush around the first move we did for, you know, Treasure Davis's team. She said, hey, right after the lunch and learn, I have a client. He's like a captain or or something high level in the in the military. She says, hey, like, let's go over there. He's got a lot of nice stuff. We need to get the house listing ready. And so we go out to the house, we start moving a bunch of stuff around next, you know, the guys get to the treadmill. And some there was something that was said about can we move it? They said, hey, they got it up there without taking it apart. My guys said it shouldn't be. They clue they are guys didn't maybe put pads down like they should have. It was just clearly a bad situation and we messed their floor up pretty bad. Now, the customer are well, the you know, knowing that, hey, like, this is going to be pretty rough for us to move. I mean, it's pretty tight and our guys could have took a different, much different approach and I'll be the first to say it. But I'm also don't want to throw them under that. It was just an awkward situation. They are well. But, you know, at the end of the day, I said, Hey, like this happened, this is not what for the first move that I would like them to experience in that moment when I got a call from her or a text my heart sank I just had did this freaking you know lunge and learn at their team I I we're the best we're so good Mark was so good I did that I did my Trump impression I'm kidding I did not do that for them but uh they so we we invested a lot into it we even did co-branded you know coloring books all this other stuff and it and you know we built every one of her team members a landing page that wanted like hey send this to your clients like we put a lot into this and at least I felt and for that to happen I was like we're done we're cooked it's like that person that that the whole team they sell 400 homes a year it'd be like somebody taking you know you know a good a rev maybe a good revenue stream out of your pocket and I I had admitted defeat but I wanted to make it right and I think now you know seeing where we're at now with their brokerage specifically and I know we work with a lot of others in town but it was just the one that sticks out to me of a time where we had messed up but we took care of it and so now what we do for a lot of our partners when we think of value is we give every one of their clients valuation now the reality is is probably because we're going to make it right regardless so if that adds a little value or a peace of mind for their clients that hey we're going to give them a thousand dollars and kind of coverage to you know fix anything that's broken great but we did do that man and it and it hurt you know it hurt to see what had happened but you know lo and behold I don't think uh their team or or they're like all realtors you know in sense might not be so shallow and they understood it they understood the game and and they still refer us to this day so I was very grateful to see that you know a lot of we had a light at the end of the tunnel but man let me tell you my heart dropped
Speaker 3that day pretty bad let's talk about what's actually happening in Scottsdale this October three days all built around one thing helping moving owners climb to the next level day one that's base camp you show up you're gonna meet your people think good food a dj some cigars we're gonna set that tone and then day two ascent is where things get real Alex Weber kicks things off and honestly if his session doesn't fire you up nothing will oh yeah and then Toby Thompson and Louis Massaro are gonna take the stage together for the first time ever and that evening we've got Topgolf and dinner you're gonna want to be there for that too but let's talk about day three that's the summit day Mike McCowitts is your keynote speaker a profit first guy talking about building businesses they're actually profitable and then the night wraps with the best of movers award celebration there's gonna be a red carpet trophies even a gold moving oh this is not the kind of conference where you sit in the back and scroll on your phone be there make sure you get your tickets I'll see you at summit on the top
Speaker 1hey everyone Matty Mailers here the guy who pioneered handwritten letters for the moving industry why because my competition at my moving company was using the same stock postcards as me and my mailing company didn't care so I created a better way here's some mind-blowing results in July Miracle Movers Utah closed ninety three thousand dollars using our handwritten letter strategy with our campaigns you can forget about the guessing games you get a trackable phone number daily photo proof an incredible design team and I'm also included all letters stop at me for approval before they ever leave our facility right now moveified listeners get one thousand golden tickets stuffed in our genuine handwritten letters completely free plus I'm gonna throw in bulk realtor data for up to five counties what are you waiting for moving letters AI stop competing start dominating well sure
Speaker 2and a lot of the times it's really about like cleaning up the mess right and making sure that you are on top of it and correct it I think that can go a long way and they most realtors get it I think right so now when you when you talk about this one particular one and you talk about the boxes one how many boxes are you typically dropping off for a client like what does that little bundle package look like for like an ROI standpoint of like what what is that expense and then I kind of want to know how many boxes are you typically dropping off for a client like what is that how many active you know realtor partners does a moving company actually need in the sense to actually make some meaningful revenue impact like you know and and what does an actual active
Speaker 1realtor even mean in this context yeah yeah of course I mean we all want the biggest and best right but and I would tell you to probably start there it's always good but yeah when we get into the boxes let's let's circle to that right now we're bringing out like four small four medium a couple larges a little bit of paper tape a handwritten card a marker you know our cost on something like that is probably you know 25 ish dollars and then of course we have our business development rep Katie who who does get a commission on any realtor who books at our company is kind of how we've structured her stuff so even if it's a realtor I worked with 10 years ago it's just across the board it was the simplest approach we could take to her being out and being a professional friend maker and so we've told her your job is just to go out and make friends every day and from there hopefully you know build trust and if they like us cool if they don't like hey we're just going to continue to try but she drops those boxes by once a week you know we're using you know something as silly as like what map quest to pop it in get it optimizes the route this is a feature that's just not on google maps at this time unless you're paying like some crazy api stuff to kind of make sure that you're getting a best optimized route for your time and then we just drop them by once a week and so she does this we knock on the doors we say hello to the them and then our goal is to take a photo a little sauce here for a little gold nugget take a photo of the box drop and maybe an outer photo with like their you know like the brokerage sign and send it to the realtor hey just want to let you know I dropped these boxes by you know this and that those are the times when I would encourage texting cold texting for realtors not really the thing I think it might be just a little too forward in my opinion and probably will turn them off that's why we like sticking to email because I think we're meeting them a little bit and more of a quieter not so in your face sense but yeah so that's kind of what we found and the second part of your question roi standpoint we are seeing an roi but we're seeing roi just from you know if you count all of our realtor relationships so we're kind of putting them as a whole right there's some that will refer you more than others there's some that are going to send you more box drops but kind of take your full time for the month and how many people are referring you and kind of average it out a bit I think if you're thinking just like dude I dropped off three boxes I'm going to send you more boxes I'm going to send you more boxes I'm going to three boxes for this realtor and I never got anything you've already given up and I think that's the persistence is key where I see continuously with a lot of moving companies where they're just like hey dude yeah it's been two weeks I'm over it I'm done or they'll do it for a while they'll cultivate a relationship for let's say like that month they'll put them up on a page or they'll make a little co-branded you know thing never to go see him ever again and this is why we say for our a so we kind of put them in an abc category I'll be real and the a people were coming to every two weeks there's dropping off cookies crumble cookie chick-fil-a just saying hey guys like how you been and it's really crazy because like yesterday Katie dropped by one of those offices and Kate shout out to Katie she's our BDR and she goes out and they're like they invited her to the break room they were just chatting having a ball and just you know hey cool good see you later there was no like hey guys do you have anything for us is there anything we can do no it was just like hey guys like they're friends so so building friendships really is like number one treating this like you're trying to make friends I know it's weird because it's like starting a new day at a high school that you weren't at now I noticed
Speaker 2I noticed so many and maybe it's just different I guess in Vancouver as maybe in in Colorado Springs but people are nicer up there but a lot of times you know my my sales consultants will go out there and there's just no realtors like no one is ever in these offices anymore everybody's remote everybody's working from home is that the same everywhere else like and if if you're listening to this share in the comments I'd love to know if your area is like are you finding going to these real estate offices there is maybe one realtor you know one receptionist and that's it because they all just kind of remote don't come into the offices anymore unless it's a big team meeting so do you find it becomes a waste of time showing up there with cookies and everything else when there's nobody there to talk to you know yeah
Speaker 1it does happen to us I'm not gonna lie we buy a certain amount and if we can't get it to them then they're going to a couple apartment complexes to to get rid of the cookies or I'm sure they're they're keeping them through the weekend I don't know uh for her but it does happen but most real estate agencies if I'm not mistaken it's Monday or Tuesday I think it's Tuesdays a lot of them do their their team meetings so if you can kind of you can get to understand talking to one of the broker or one of the you know agents hey when's your guys's team meetings you can kind of time that hey you're not going to be able to do that you're not going to be able to do that you're not you know quite a bit of them will be around the office that day and that's something that I think we've done really well too is just kind of figuring out when you can stop by and I think it's good too when you stop by and there's a receptionist hey well when does everybody kind of come in cool they'll probably tell you it's like great I'll stop something by next week but also don't be the weird guy who lingers around dude you know you're just going to drop off some
Speaker 2stuff uh what I would just hanging out hanging outside the door we're just waiting for these
Speaker 1realtors all slowly showing up hey guys it's maddie mailers how are you but yeah no it's you don't want to be the weird person but I also would suggest like um we had stickers made too when we talk about stickers we had stickers made that we would put over the price of the cookies right Right. Cause you'd be like, ah, man, we're going to get the $4 ones that are on the orange special from King supers. Right. I'm not going to lie there. Those are good though. And we would shove we, and there were, there weren't like stale or anything, but we would shove like our logo over them and our little sticker, uh, that was like brought to you by the team at I whole, I move, thank you for everything you do. Or we would put a little handwritten card and stick it to it over the, you know, what we paid for them. So I would suggest doing something like that too. So just once again, getting creative, I'm not saying, you know, cookies are the key to everything, but I think it's just persistence. It's just saying hello. It's stopping by treating
Speaker 2them like friends. And so that's the breakthrough. Uh, flipping it over. You talked earlier about how when you were building this whole package for this real estate firm or this brokerage, this landing page. Yeah. Okay. Walk me through the realtor landing page concept. I know, you know, like I can probably quickly build something on like lovable and have something done, but like, what is this? Like a one page? What does the realtor get out of sharing it? Like, how is this a co-brand for anybody that's like, Hey, I just kind of want to do this on my own, or I'm kind of trying to, you know, tinker around with it. What should be on this landing page and how can you make it so that
Speaker 1the realtor actually gets to use it? Uh, well, yeah, a couple of good things that I, that I like to focus on is promoting that realtor with their information, not only making it SEO friendly so that, you know, people will pick it up. Like if you're a realtor, you're going to be able to pick it up. Like if you Google right now, treasure Davis reviews, we probably are popped up on the first page somewhere, uh, for I haul, I move. So making it SEO friendly, which is, is good, making them look good. Right. And making the page like, you know, needs to look high end, but also the fact that you have perks for their clients. So they have exclusive perks. And so the goal here with this landing page is that, that, you know, that realtor books, mark bookmarks it, and they're able to share it with their client now directly. So not only is that real, there's information on it, but your information's on it, but not only what you can purchase, but also what you can provide to them. Um, so we have some clients who do this. And then what we've done is we've created a way to attribute it directly within our CRM that, Hey, it's a realtor. And this is the name of the realtor. And here's the client's information. So I would suggest that. Okay.
Speaker 2Now let's say I have no idea what you are talking about. I have no idea what you and Mark are even thinking about. This doesn't make any sense to me. Can this get done? Do you offer this service?
Speaker 1Yes. Yeah. So we, we offer it as a part of our package or, I mean, I have some people who've paid for it a little bit separately versus doing the emails because they wanted it. And what I found with it is it had to be simple and they don't need to know WordPress. You don't need to log in or anything like that. Literally the way we've done this is through a Google sheet. You had their first name, last name, you add a description, you add their Instagram, whatever. And with a click of a button, um, with a magic link is what we call it. You press it next thing you know, the website's up in 30 seconds. You're able to share it with the client in, in less than a minute. You can, right now our clients could build probably a real, a realtor's landing page in under one to two minutes and have it up on the website, um, without knowing any code because they're just putting it in a Google sheet. And then from the Google sheet, it adds. So that's how they're doing it. And I think it's a great way to say, Hey, by the way, I built you guys a little something, someone who speaks really highly of this. And I mean, I'm sure we'll, we'll hear from Nikal at some point, but Nikal actually does this at all of his presentations. He's doing a presentation actually right now. So I was going to try to get him to sneak in on this podcast, but he, uh, he actually does. One of these landing pages are a couple of them. And so he shares it as a part of his presentation that says, Hey, this is what we can do for you. And he says, you won't believe that sometimes the ooze and the odds that I'll get in the crowd because of this. Sure. And so shout out
Speaker 2to the number one podcast, one percenter listener, Nikal Murdoch with Murdoch.
Speaker 1Nikal Murdoch. I think it was 0.001. That's right. But yeah, it's some, it's some crazy metric. He's listened to every movified episode. He's the most dedicated fan, man. And I love it.
Speaker 2So I love him for it. So, okay. So you actually have this. So like, if I was, if I was listening to this and going, okay, cool. I think this is genius. I kind of want this. You actually have the program where you give me like a login. I can do a Google sheet for like as many as I want. Like I just kind of keep it going and it just like systemizes, or do I have to reach out to someone on your team going, I got a new realtor client or I got a new person. I need this made. Like, how does that work? I have some people that are like, Hey,
Speaker 1can you help us do that? And there's times where my team can kind of assist, throw them in there real fast for you. No problem. A lot of people are just using Google sheet. They're using their chat GPT, you know, Google sheet extension to kind of throw these people in there too, just to help automate some of this process. But there is no login. It's very simple. And we create this with a sub domain. And so what we found is we would, obviously we don't want to derank anybody's website with a bunch of partners on their website. And I'm not sure if that would have a marginal effect. But we do like a sub domain. And so a lot of these clients will do like partners.domain.com or something. So it's kind of its own, what I would call like a micro website, but they look really nice. They're very SEO friendly. And it's just super easy because like for me, if I remember anything before, you know, a pre-assistance and things of this nature was going on to a WordPress and trying to figure out how to build a page and trying to like move something around and how annoying in time can be. And so I've been doing that for a long time. And I've been doing that for a long time. And I've been doing that for a long time. And I've been doing that for a long time. For sure. Now it's just a matter of one or two minutes for our team. And we wanted to make it easy and for our clients. And so we're very glad that we've gotten to that point. So if you're
Speaker 4considering Snowball, just do it. Snowball creates done for you referral programs for moving companies. So you can turn happy customers into new revenue without lifting a finger and the
Speaker 3results speak for themselves. In less than a year, we've collected over 2000 referrals.
Speaker 5We generated over $200,000 of revenue that cost about $5,000.
Speaker 3I believe we have four or five the very first day.
Speaker 4The companies winning with Snowball are the ones that already care about their customers. We just help turn that into new business through human outreach and customer nurturing.
Speaker 5Snowball is part of the arsenal of tools that I recommend to my clients because it works.
Speaker 2Hey, everyone. It's Mark Hershey here with the Movified podcast and Movified Nation. We are super pumped to be headlining this year for the New Jersey Moving and Storage Association conference happening in Atlantic City. Never been there and I can't wait. Why? Because on September 23rd and 24th, we are going to have nothing like you've ever seen. What are we all built on? We're built on tradition, but are we driven by innovation? Innovation is going to be the key to this conference. And I'm also excited to be talking about being a legacy mover, to a modern day mover. What does that even mean? That means making sure that I'm ahead of the game with two companies that probably were paper and pen, but now we've got to take it to the next level. Do you want to know how? Well, make sure you get to find out. See us there. There's going to be karaoke night. We're bringing it back. We're going to have so much fun there and I can't wait to see you there. So make sure you check the link below, click and get your tickets now because it is limited. We are selling out. So make sure you and me, we find each other at the New Jersey Moving and Storage Association coming up September 23rd and 24th. Check it out.
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Speaker 2Make the case for physical mail in 2026, 2027. Everyone is in their inbox. Why does a postcard or handwritten letter still cut through when a cold email might not?
Speaker 1Yeah, let's talk about that. So, you know, cold emails are great about, and depending on how you're doing it. I have a lot of movers who are going to go ahead and, you know, I would start sending, you know, 10 to 20 from your main Google workspace. No more than that. Not like, even if just keeping it very easy, I wouldn't send the same one to every person, switch it up. But if you were to start with, you know, 10 to 20, you would send 10 to 20 from your main Google workspace. With some basic stuff. But, you know, I'll see a lot of movers shove this stuff into their MailChimp. Next thing you know, you're in and in the promotions tab or spam. You're ruining your domain reputation by doing this. So they'll attach their main domain to their MailChimp and they will cold email like crazy, or they'll do this from their Google workspace on 200. And next thing you know, their smart moving or their CRM estimates that are linked to their domain aren't even going to people anymore. Now they're just getting labeled the spam from everything else because of this. And so I highly suggest like, if you're going to email, do it small. And if you're or constant contact, stay away from that with, with kind of public consumer data, unless they've actually opted in, I would not do that. Now making the case for mail, why I think mail is so important is just absolutely the important touch for your brand. Now, time and time again, I have this story, which I don't love, but I also want to be real is I have a client who was down in Oklahoma city. He said, Hey Matt, you know, mail's not really working for us right now. We're, we're not getting what we want. And I said, Hey guys, I understand mail's different in every, every part of the country. I'm just going to be a hundred percent honest. And I said, Hey, like, why don't we do this? Why don't, you know, we have our direct attribution. We have your QRs. We have your tracking number. Why don't we take your lead list and run it against who we've mailed and see who was assisted by us in finding you? Because now of course everybody's reps, you know, sometimes our reps will just label Google word of mouth, whatever. I mean, if it takes seven important touches to break through, how important is a touch? That someone gets something beautiful like this in their mailbox that stands out and yeah, they might throw it away. They're like, Hey, you know what? Cool. That looks great. I looked at the logo, whatever. They're throwing it away. That's fine. Let's be honest. They do. I'm not going to sit here and lie and tell you that they don't, but what tends to end up happening is two weeks later when they Google or they saw your truck or their realtor referred you. Now we're connecting more dots. And so we were able to find for that client about $30,000 in that 30 days of assisted attribution. And so we had to do that. And so we had to do that. And so we had to do that. We have to start thinking of attribution is not just like, Hey, we have our direct attribution, you know, return on ad spend. And now we're having our assistive, you know, return on ad spend. And so sometimes I think as marketers and especially with how spoiled we are with digital marketing, because we can turn it on today and we can turn off tomorrow and we can see ROIs and things of this nature. Mail just takes a little longer. It takes about 60, 90 days to really start to see kind of what the capabilities of this is. But I also try to challenge people that there's a lot of people who are getting your mailers who are also choosing to move with you. And I've been able to prove this time and time again. And it's just because, you know, right now, I think we're seeing that, you know, we want to know, Hey, directly, what's my direct attribution on this? And so that's something that we're seeing right now. But the case for mail is just, it still works. It's still in their face. It's something that they can feel touch. And I mean, if you want to smell, this one doesn't smell, but you know, like you can't, that's just my point, right? You can use your senses on this as opposed to seeing something digital pop up on your screen. We know digital marketing is here. It's here to stay. It's not
Speaker 2anywhere, but like, where else can you people still like a physical card? And I think it also then really give us, give us three nuggets on an effective postcard postcard offer. Um, I think
Speaker 1your offer has to break through the others at the cat's side of the bag. Everyone's doing mail. They're right. Okay. Like there's a lot, especially in these major cities, there's people that might get 15, 20 mailers. I'm not even sure. Right. And the biggest thing that I see time and time again is like, I don't know if your offer isn't good. If it's just 5% off, if it's, you know, things like that, or it's like, Hey, a hundred dollars off your move total, then you might not exactly break through. And so I suggest being creative about your offers, you know, of what you can give, uh, give people, you know, add value. Hey, we can give you, you know, well, whatever, a free valuation. We can give you this. We can give you that. Like there's other great things and perks and sorry, I dropped my air pod out of my ear. So that's, do you want to, do you want to
Speaker 2like some type of promotion on there? Like some big, you know, a hundred dollar off $50 off? Like, does it really matter to capture someone? I think the offer is important. Um, it shouldn't
Speaker 1be your end all. I think it's clear. I think it's being like being like what right now that I think I see is working very well is using the imagery to guide, using imagery to guide the feeling of your company and not just your words. And so what I'll see a lot of people do is they'll say, you know, I wouldn't call it rookies because that's not fair, but like people who are kind of new into doing mail, we'll just fill the page with every little thing, you know, fill it with how many, how many words and awards and QR code big as hell can I get? And I just don't think it's necessary now. It's like, let the feeling drive, drive here and, you know, put a damn golden retriever on the thing or something. And, and obviously a picture of yourself, a little bit about your reviews. And that's kind of it really. It's like from there, it's just making sure you have a better looking card than the competition. And that's something that we do here and something that I, and shout out to our design team. They're freaking incredible. Uh, one thing that we do that I think we do really well is we actually can print the first name of the homeowners directly on the freaking postcard, which is wild. And I think it's just unique. And obviously we can't do that in Canada. Sorry, Mark, but in the U S here, they get a little spoiled cause we can do this. And, and we, I don't, I don't think we don't even charge extra for that. And it's just something we like to do to, to make it unique and stand out. So perfect. Well, Maddie, we are
Speaker 2at a point right now, uh, where on Mondays we do the box of truth. So I got two questions for you, uh, uh, hard hitting. I feel like I've been very vulnerable right now. I've told you some bad stuff, you know? I know. Well, let's keep it going. Let's keep it going. Cause this, this is going to be here. You built moving letters, you own I haul high move. So really at the end of the day, you have a marketing system and you've, you are a mover, you and a company owner. Has there ever been a campaign or product feature you built for movers that you tried
Speaker 1and it failed and what happened built? Yes. And no, right. I think right now, when we think of where we're at with, you know, data, you know, like tier two, our data, you know, with, with homeowners contact info and things is cold calling, just something we failed at. We haven't been persistent at, and I can't say for sure that it's been an absolute game changer. Now we're bringing someone on our team that might help a little bit with that and try to be more persistent with, but until I actually see that it works, my feeling on the cold, cold call feeling right now is not very high. Oh, you know, I think that would be maybe one
Speaker 2that, that I can think of right now for you yourself. When I think of, you know, I don't know if, if we've talked about on the show at all before in the past, but there was a certain point where you were done, you wanted to get out of the moving game. Like you could not stand it anymore. It was kind of like a little bit of the catalyst to kind of kick off moving letters. And, but things change. You saw this, or we, as a group of friends saw this shift in you where now you look at I hole, I move. And I mean, you guys are killing it and it's nothing but growth. What do you think were two of the biggest changes that had to take place and what were those changes so that the
Speaker 1company where you see it today is a lot different than it was four years ago? For sure. Yeah. Let's just, let's just talk about that. I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good point. And then just see when, obviously when business is good, business is good. And I'd say, you know, last year we grew 45%. This year we're on track as a whole to do 55. Our July was probably 70, 75% over the July, the year before, which was wild. Not only, you know, so we've had some really great months this year where it was like, wow, what was that growth? What did we do? What was the shift? And there was a lot of things, but it was kind of a lot of my marketing system as a whole that has really helped attribute that, right? And investing in more people. So I would like to continue to do that, to buy back my time. Shout out, you know, Dan Martell, but like, I want to, yeah, I want to buy back my time a bit more. And I hope that when I found out that, you know, the moving company is not worth a lot as much as I'd love to believe it's, you know, if I could leave, I would sell it for a lot of money. It's, it's, it's really depends on me. So at this point, I think I have to kind of keep it. I have to decide, you know, either take a big loss and just, you know, accept that after 18 years, you're only going to get something. So much money or a, like, let's just keep it around as a good investment. I still can make some money, but really putting in a good solid manager to, to really help deal with some of those fires. And I've already got a good ops guy, but I think, you know, we might need one other really great hire to, uh, to assist the team too, and kind of fulfilling my role here so that I'm not on a Sunday out on a truck, but that was a rare one. I think that was maybe one of maybe two here this year so far. So not too bad trying to go a whole year without being on the truck, but it's very difficult.
Speaker 2Yeah, it, it happens. It happens. And I actually think it's, it's great. You know what? The days that I go on job sites, you know, I was on a new project last week and it's sometimes re reassuring as a business owner to see your crews kill it and go, you know, you talk so highly about it. Usually you always hear the bad stuff when something happens. So you're usually bitching them out. But then when you actually on a job site, standing from afar, watching how they lead, how they delegate, how they're just. Getting the project done and going, huh? Wow. Like this is my guys and guys like they're, they're, they're killing it. They're doing really good. So it's, it's kind of nice to see not the guys that call in sick and now you are on a truck and now you're like, it's just super annoyed and
Speaker 1that wasn't why I was just trying to be customer service guy that day, but yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2Okay. I got two more for you before we kind of wrap this up. Yeah. Let's keep it going, man. Okay. Those people that are listening right now, right. They want to start building a realtor actual system. You have now built out the systems so this is kind of sorry guys this is kind of where the plugs come in here where do they go first listings pro uh the listings pro trial a cold email lane check direct mail campaign what
Speaker 1is do you think is the right entry point and why yeah well i think right now what i what i find is you know open up with something that you haven't maybe done before or tried and so for instance i have a mover who took who used us who started with mail we now have gone on to working with his website specifically i when i had rebuilt mine we had saw immense growth and so i was able to say hey man like he came to me begged me up and down matt i i don't know what it's going to take just do it just do it i said hey man i don't really do websites i'm not a website guy we did it for him he's seeing fantastic growth and so when we think of and now he's probably going to start email with us so he's kind of like i'm going to do it for him and i'm going to do it for him and i'm going to doing what we would call the trifecta right but i think listing pro there's so much value in this data and i think now you know we're doing 399 for a 50 mile radius unlimited access like you get full unlimited exports the api all of it inclusive as a part of the program and what we found is that like there's so much value in being able to you know do your own email your own whatever outreach that you want with this information that i think can really help drive your team but i still think value in all of it now email to do well it is an investment because if you can develop relationship with realtors down the line that you have for years that's what we're really trying to do is we're trying to open the door in a creative way um that a lot of movers just don't have the time to do if you had to go pay someone or hire someone to do it and do it on a time schedule and do well but also land in their primary inbox but then make sure you do an email verification and this and that and like there's so much to this that i don't think meets the eye an email on itself sounds very simple but at scale to do big it's not and it's been a big you know it's been a learning curve for sure but a lot of people really have enjoyed our program being able to respond to emails on their telegram on the go with their teams all in a group chat like that feature right there has been very helpful for uh for people but listing pro is at the heart of everything we do i use this for my facebook ad targeting i use this for so much more than just meets the eye but i think what i've especially with movers and in all due respect here and i love every one of them is they want it done they said hey like i just want this done for me i don't want to like go in this dashboard and have to press a button to send a mailer to do this to do that and i started realizing that and data kind of shows time and time again that not even a lot of people log into this thing they like to just get the data every day they get the csv they do whatever they want with it we automate the email to them to be honest with you but they just want hands off they just want this done for them and they want to know that they're getting leads um and that's exactly like kind of what we're we're doing is is really helping them with that and prescribing as much as i i'd love to think i'm a doctor there's there is actually in my city a doctor matthew young it's kind of funny i get his mail he gets my mail but i kind of want to prescribe to you something specific to your moving company that i think can work as long as it's within budget and it makes sense right now of where you're at so that's kind of what i've been able to do now is take some more time to spend time when movers get an appointment with us is to take us some one-on-one talk to them see where they're at hey no no harm no foul like if you don't if we're not the right guys we're not the right fit that's i don't care i'm here to obviously help you and provide value and if i can do that that's fantastic too and that's kind of part of this too so what up guys i'm chris with swamp rabbit
Speaker 7moving and i just want to give a massive shout out to the cube sheets team we started with cube sheets probably a year ago and it's just been a great process all around brandon and andrew are great to work with answer any questions you may have in the comments below and i'll see you next week and i'll see you next week business and make the sales process way more efficient if you're looking for a software like that i would check out cube sheets as my number one pick when it comes to inventory management
Speaker 8brandon andrew i just want to give you a huge shout out over at cube sheets you guys are one of the reasons why we have so much success over at wny moving when it comes to our estimate and our accuracy it's all because of you guys but what's most impressive is literally i can take a phone call and within 10-15 minutes of that call i can take a phone call and i can take a phone call i have an estimate in that person's hands and it's signed with a deposit because how quick cube sheets scans um the client's house and i don't know what else i would do out without you guys you guys are amazing keep up the great work hi i'm amy i'm the owner of american moving
Speaker 9and hauling and if you are like me or your estimators are like me you are running around constantly on the road just trying to get estimates done especially in the busy season i'm so glad that we found cube sheets because holy cow if i had not found it this spring i would be absolutely drowning right now it has cut down my estimate uh time in half it's super helpful does a full inventory for me i just had to calculate the numbers it's been a game changer for us if time is money for you too then you need to get in on this and give it a try
Speaker 2because you will not be sorry and that's what accurate estimating really looks like what's up everybody hope you're enjoying the episode it is time to get your tickets there are only less than 50 seats left for september 2nd to september 4th clearwater florida the only conference you want to start off the rest of the year for in september it's been a long summer and now is your time to network to grow to learn it's the moving time event make sure you get your tickets today check out the link below in the description and get your savings get with while you can why because this is the way you can grow are you figuring out why you still can't grow well now's your chance the lineups are crazy you got patrick meyerbach coming you got austin yarboe talking about sales we're gonna have jim steves talking about commercial moving i mean the list goes on so make sure you get your tickets today check out the link it's down below and keep watching that was a very long-winded answer i'm so sorry guys i've been yeah help me out at all i just kind of wanted a straightforward answer editor can cut that back please editor just trim like no no no it was all very it's all very informative and if i had to wrap it up in a bow it's you know obviously start with checking your website like how is what's my bounce rate what what does my website look like do i actually have the right information on there and do i have faqs on there do i have even a site to for realtors did i even build a page to say hey like we work with a lot of people and i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm with realtors and this is the kind of offering that we do all of that then honestly i would say get the listing pro data have the data get get the listings in there i mean these are like fresh cold leads like you know that you need to warm up you need to be on top of them you need to hit it and then do some mailers and get out there and try something different and the best way to do that is if you know friends and family that are moving see what's coming to their door yeah right or that's a valuable one or ask a realtor ask the person that you're moving saying hey listen you know what did you get when when when you were moving i know you called us and you booked with us but we didn't even send you something in the mail so what kind of postcards did you get do you still have any of those or do you throw them all out and then flip it out because to me i'll tell you one thing having just a standard what is it six by four uh six by nine maybe six no no no four by four by six the baby one yeah you might as well you might as well just like take out your money from your pocket and throw it on the ground and let someone else pick it up because you're wasting money you definitely want to go big get like a six by nine you want that postcard to stand out and then try something different right like get into that scratch and sniff i think that's like fucking genius i think it's so cool so that i wish i could call it a sniff it is just
Speaker 1a scratcher it's like a scratch like a lottery ticket but if you want to sniff it it might not sniff well like good but if you want to sniff it it might not sniff well like good but if you want to sniff it it might not sniff well like good but you can it you are able to last question
Speaker 2before we we finished off matt said keep it under four like 45 minutes because he tunes out around 45 minutes so i tuned out yeah sorry that's right what do you think we're looking at coming down the pipeline here for like 2027 do you think people are just gonna get way more automated what should be what should be some of the focus points for people yeah i mean i think right now we're seeing
Speaker 1a big shift with people getting more confident with their ai being able to do so much i mean seeing chat gpt take their you know like application on the desktop and merge it in with their coding application and all the other stuff that you can do and claude is doing this too right where we're seeing people do co-work they're making these tools they're making these automations they're having it do stuff like this is the next tier of this and if you are sleeping on this you you have to wake up right so have someone pour water on your face and shake you and wake you up and this is the moment that i'm going to tell you that this is the stuff that your competitors are doing that are automating leveling them up getting them to the next tier and so find things in your business uh that you can do with this so i would say that's kind of where we're going is just really seeing more and more you know movers that you wouldn't even expect to be breaking through an ai and i kind of got to see this firsthand when i i had recently i have a smart moving mcp that i that i had put together which is essentially modal context protocols what they call it and what this is is a way that an ai agent can kind of decipher an api simply and i had coded this because I wanted to, and I open sourced it. I said, Hey, like I was on the unofficial smart moving group. Hey guys, like if you can use this for your AI agents or your cloud code or your chat GPT to interact with your API with smart moving, I think that's the future. I think there's a future here where we are using our agents to completely interact with our CRM, being able to give us the information. I mean, I had said this not long ago, maybe even on Wade's podcast, where I thought that this would be the future. And now we have something like Toby, the little thing from smart moving. We have the one Mippy over at, you know, move it pro plus and stuff where they have AI agents kind of built part of their product that kind of can help brief you on, Hey, your guys didn't do six follow-up yesterday and you have two jobs tomorrow, but one's a piano. Make sure that you have a piano board or whatever, right? Like these things are going to help us so much and are going to organize us. So I think that part is where we're going to see 2027 go into. It's more just organizational automation AI.
Speaker 2I love it. Conferences. Let's give some shout outs here, guys. Okay. We are a week away, uh, at least maybe, maybe less or so from the moving time retreat in Clearwater, Florida. Guys, if you haven't got in gals, get your tickets. There's only like 40 left and then they're completely sold out. I'm going to be there. Maddie's going to be there. Nicole's going to be there. Austin's going to be there. I mean, uh, the whole, like the let's go boy is aside from Josh Shipman. We'll be there, but the move five podcast will be set up. I would love to see you come by the booth. Come grab me. Let's sit down. Let's have a chat. Uh, we'll be doing daily recap episodes as well too. So if you did miss the event, you're going to be stuck listening to me, Maddie and a Cal, you know, ramble about all the different speakers and how exciting it was and how you guys all missed out on some pickleball tournaments and some fun and some funness right after that in October. Well, also at the end of September, we're going to be doing a podcast I will be speaking at the New Jersey moving and a warehouse association. Let's go. Yes. I always,
Speaker 1I promised myself I'd make sure I was there last year. Mark's coming this year. Very cool. Yeah.
Speaker 2It's going to be pretty, it's going to be lots of fun. It's going to be Atlantic city. I make sure you get your tickets for that one. Great price point. Super fun at the Tropicana. Uh, it's going to be great. I'm excited to go there. I am taking my son along. I'm taking my wife along. So I should be good. So, and then in October we have the smart moving summit, the make sure if you look in the descriptions, we should still have a discount code in there for you, uh, to sign up. And if you don't see it in there, hit me up, find me, DM me says, Hey Mark, you talked about that discount code. Uh, I'm an avid listener. I want that discount code. Get your tickets pretty quick here. It's the beginning of October as well. And that is in Scottsdale at the talking stick in Arizona. Yeah. There's some fun events coming up, man. Oh yeah. Then after that, you got built to move in Ohio and Worcester, Ohio presented by Tim crop, you know, from crops moving in storage and also moving bees. Is that right? The movies movies. Thank you. The bees, the bees, the bees, the sales process. Anyway, you know, the thing Tim kills it. Uh, this is the second year doing it. Uh, first year, both of us, Matt and myself are there. Fantastic experience. I mean, it was, uh, I loved the intimate setup. It was, it was great. It was a, to me, a real solid way to connect with other moving company owners, but also kind of reflect on yourself the way he ran it kind of made you sit back and go like, am I doing this right? And how can I implement this on myself? So really good solid talks. And then I sure hope that's the end of the year. But, uh, for us Canadian listeners, we have cam, which is the key association of movers happening in November, which is like the ATA MSC for Americans. And, uh, so that's happening actually in my backyard in Richmond, BC, uh, which is exciting. So make sure you get your tickets for that. That should be fun as well too. And then my goodness, I sure hope that's it. You know, if everybody hasn't just like exhaust themselves by going to every single event they can think of, is there another one, Maddie? I mean, Ryan Marshall would
Speaker 1know best, but man, I guess that's like, that's all I can think of, man. It's, I think I'm going to do two of the ones you had mentioned. And I think that may be three, but I think that's kind of where I'm at, you know, bandwidth wise with back to school, the kiddo, everything else that we have going on. It's a lot. It's a lot. It can be a lot, but I think getting there, I'm having a, you know, my, my person who used to do sales for me went and started his own moving company. I said, you gotta go. And he's in Florida. Gotta go to the moving Titan retreat, dude. You gotta come over here. And I think it'd be better just to meet other movers besides me being your mentor. Like I want you to open the doorway to find some other friends too, brother. And so I think he's going to come, which is great, but man, just come and hang out, dude. Like this is what I've noticed more and more time and time again, is the speakers are great. You're going to get value. There's no questions of that. Come stop by all the booths. Like there's great vendors out there. You know what I mean? And, and talk to them to see if there's anything they can add value to your business, but man, just the relationships. Number one, always, always, always, uh, the friendships that are made. I continue to flourish in having more and more friends as a part of it. And if they say it's not what, you know, it's who, you know, these are the type of rooms that you want to be into for your business. A hundred percent. You're going to set it better yourself. Yeah.
Speaker 2You couldn't have said it better than thank you myself. Yeah. To, to add just a little bit on here. Cause someone asked me, Hey, you know, you've got all these conferences. You talk about them. Like which one should I go to? Matt kind of touched on this the most, right? It's about building, uh, relationships. It's about building these friendships and then having these resources for moving companies that are not in your area that are doing exactly, or struggling in the same areas that you are, that you actually can share in these conversations. It's a big difference like home service event, you know, you go to like an Alex Ramosi event or like a Tony Robbins, that's great. Like that's going to help you work on yourself and work, you know, but when it comes to, you know, hanging out with people that understand the grind, understand exactly what you're going through and they can share some successes. I mean, that can change your trajectory to that hockey stick where it's nothing but up from here. The other, the other big point though, that I say is look at the event, look at the lineup, read and understand who the speakers are and try and ask yourself where I'm at in my business. Am I going to get an ROI on this? Is it completely worthwhile? If you were, if you were someone that's like, man, these events are like my own vacation because maybe I'm single. Maybe, you know, we just don't, where our family, our kids are grown up. We don't really do this and everything else. I want to hit them all up. Then. And a hundred percent go to tie in, go to summit, go to build to move like those three top two top three for the fall. I would be hitting up and those would be like my three conference, my big ones that I want to go to every year. If you're being very selective because you want to see growth, then do your research because every year the conferences change, the speakers change what they're going to talk about, what the topic is. And you, you want to make sure that you're not going there, walking out, going like, man, I didn't get nothing from it. And if you're new and you've never been to a conference, find Matt, find myself, hit us up. We will introduce you to whoever you want to get introduced to, especially someone like myself. I will make sure you get
Speaker 1introduced. Yeah. I mean, yeah. Anything else? Sure. Yeah. I think, no. And I, I, I think when you mentioned that one person in my mind really like sticks out as someone who had approached you at one of the moving Titan retreats and was like, Hey, I want to really meet you, Mark. They had signed up for our golf tournament, which we're not doing this year, but like, and I was like, dude, who is this person? His name's Karsten. What like, who is this guy? I knew you were going to say Karsten and next thing you know, just seeing this guy from now till here, man, it's just like, Holy crap. And I'm not going to sit like, don't take any credit aside. This dude's built it himself, but man, like just seeing where he was, the, the way he had carried himself to the way he carries himself today, man, like, dude, I just, it's crazy to see him. And so I think of those moments where people can walk up to, you know, Mark or myself and get introduced to people. And now they're like breakthroughs. They have a bunch of friends in the industry. They're well-known, um, and things like that. So yeah, definitely don't be shy guys. It is weird sometimes going to these events and it can feel a little bit like, I remember used to going to Louis Massaro events and just feeling like I want to just go stay in my room. So I don't know anybody, but dude, am I glad I took the chance to just like, Hey, what's up man? And shaking hands and just. That's right. You know, things like that. I met Alan there from, uh, to college and, uh, I met him, you know, at those events and he was like one of my first moving company friends. And so shout out to Alan for that. Like it kind of took me under his wing a bit too. So, uh, you're going to find people you vibe with man, even in your area. And I think there's enough meat on the bone for us all to be friends and to all help each other. We're all in this grind, dude. And we all deal with the same experiences, guys calling out things like that. So go to these events, guys. Don't sleep on them. Find a way.
Speaker 2And stay movified everybody until next time. Thank you. Shout out. Thank you, Maddie. Love the shirt.
Speaker 1Movified. Let's go. Hey, leg day, leg day, every day. Don't stop guys. Come on.
Speaker 2That's right.
Speaker 1Salmon.
Speaker 2Take care.
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