Evan Cohen on Molly Qerim, Stephen A. Smith, Howard Stern, and more

[Music] This is the Awful Announcing Podcast. Here's your host, Brandon Contas. [Music] Alrighty, welcome to episode 113 of the Awful Announcing Podcast. I'm your host, Brandon Contas. This week we were joined by ESPN Radio Morning Host, Evan Cohen. Evan has been with ESPN Radio for two years now hosting the Morning Show with Chris Cantia and Michelle Smallman after what was a long and very successful stint at Sirius XM and Mad Dog Sports Radio where he hosted the Morning Show with Mike Babchick for 12 years. Two years into the move now at ESPN. Evan gave us some clarity on why. He went from Sirius to ESPN. He discussed having to adjust to new co-hosts. He also discussed his relationship with Babchick and the listeners, the relationship with the listeners that he has from both shows. Evan spoke about seeing how ESPN still values radio. We also touched on the surprise of Molly Karim leaving ESPN in first take where Evan would be interested in hosting first take more. We talked about growing up a Mike and the Mad Dog listener and now getting to develop a relationship with Chris Russo in his career. It was a really fun conversation with somebody who occupies them. Very valuable real estate in sports radio. So please make sure you rate and subscribe to this podcast. Make sure you also subscribe to Awful Announcing's YouTube page and enjoy this week's episode of the Awful Announcing Podcast with guest Evan Cohen. All right. He's been a sports radio host for more than two decades now, formerly of Morning Men over at Mad Dog Radio on Sirius XM. And now he co-hosts ESPN Radio's Morning Show with Chris Canty and Michelle Smallman. He is Evan Cohen. Evan, thanks so much for joining us on the Awful Announcing Podcast today. Two years at ESPN Radio now. Does it does it feel like it's been two years already? It's been a brand and it's been amazing couple of years. Some days it feels like it's been five minutes. Other days it feels like because of our camaraderie, it's been a decade. Because we're all hanging out outside of work. We're making trips together and like, that doesn't usually happen that quickly. So some days it feels like we just started other days. It feels like we're in year 10 or 20 because of how much we hang out. Going from working with Mike Babchick for so long at Sirius XM, there were different iterations of that show with Steve Phillips and with Willie Cologne. But it was mostly you and Babchick. But how was having to adjust after being there so long to new co-hosts for the first time in a while when you went to ESPN? Babs is one of one both in life and on air. He is one of my two or three closest friends in the world. The show made us as close as we are. And the show not being together anymore does not change that. We talk constantly. We trade ideas. We laugh. It's interesting because I had multiple shows with people that I would consider my best friends. I was on an ESPN West Palm forever with a guy by the name of John Martin who still works at ESPN West Palm. And he's my closest friend. And then meeting Babs on air basically on Mad Dog. We're inseparable also. And it's just a weird feeling knowing that like my path has been with people that I met through this industry. That I became lifelong friends with. I was like, "J. Martin, John Martin was at my wedding." I didn't know Babs at that time after I got married. He's been at all my kids birthday parties. He's been literally with my parents many times. I said, "It's a weird thing to have people that close in any profession." So when you leave that and you join two people that are insanely talented like CC and smalls. But you don't know. And then you're kind of in those early stages of, "Yeah, Babs and I had an amazing 12 year run." And now it's in year two slash three of this. And I can't wait to see the next version of those lifelong friends that I guess that I am now lucky enough to be developing. But sure, yeah, it was it was a transition. There's no question. Babs and I were together forever. And I was really lucky to have them. And I am really lucky to have them. Well, what is your mindset when you're adjusting to new co-hosts? Like do you do you try to sit back at times and make sure everybody has space early on or or do you just kind of, I mean, even think like maybe let's just take control of the show and make sure that everybody else keeps up. So it's a great question because you go into a national show like I was fortunate enough to get a serious exam. And I think your first thought is if we're going to be real. How do we make this show a success and how do I become a star? If anyone tells you that they don't think that way, they're just not telling you the truth. And I realize pretty quickly the way they become a star was Babs is the star. Not me, not in any way shape or form. He is a mega star. And I learn very quickly that's the method. So then you get to ESPN and you realize, wait a second, there is no analyst anywhere better than can't I got to get him to analyze everything from the NFL to college football to the NBA to majorly baseball to food to travel to vacations to my outfit. And when I say I need to get him, I don't have to do much prompting he's that damn good. I have never seen an ex athlete as prepared as he is. He knows everything about everything. But for end, it is my job to make sure I am putting him in that analyst role for everything and that becomes really interesting. And with smalls is everyone has a smalls in their life. Everyone has that person that is glass half full positive. You want to be around knows a lot about a lot of things and makes you smile. How do I constantly get her and I don't need to have too much prompting she's amazing. How do I make sure the audience feels that that she's their version of whoever on a day to day basis. So it's really getting out of the way a lot and that's you know it's an ego thing initially of like no I want to be the star like cool I could still want to be a star. But all the other people are really the stars. How is working with with Chris canty who who seems to have a knack for saying things that have the potential to go viral like his some of his takes. And credit the like whoever's in charge of of clipping the show does a great job because there are a lot of radio shows that just kind of do their radio show and that's it but you guys get those clips out and it's great marketing. Well, that is Rob Lorenzo Rob Lorenzo is a genius when it comes to social and digital a lot of times as you said you kind of have to prompt someone hey clip this clip that you have to tell Rob nothing. Literally there are times where we have been on the air where we're talking and like the clip of what we're talking about is already out and I'm like I don't even think I'm done saying that and it already put out so he is brilliant he is a genius you've never seen people or anyone work harder than him. I mean this is a guy he goes to the espn New York offices at about four every day before he comes over to the espn radio national offices at five for our show at six and then he's working on clips to all hours of the night he just does not stop the speed in which Rob works reminds me of that is in many ways like that's that's that they're very quick and the speed in which they work back to the cc part. So cc where he's unreal is a lot of the clips that you say and you're right go viral for his take on so and so. His shooting percentage is unbelievable because a lot of times in the moment you'll sit there and be like what really you think that's going to happen a month later that happens like last year you know he was writing off the bangles before anybody else bangles and make it up right who's on the joke burrow stuff really early. Really early really early last year he also said if I were the cowboys I would rebuild not retool and not build this thing up people laughed at him well what happened. He said they would should trade my cup long before they traded my cup yeah he said they should trade trade trade handrax into the bangles thing long before that he is so smart and so good at this stuff and what happens a lot of times is before the show we we are all we all prepare. In a group chat and email together but pre show separately on purpose so what will happen is and this is important to what you were saying about the take so what will happen is on my way in. I call new no hour producer we go over our stuff because our stops going to be different than cc stuff which is different the smallest stuff my stuff a lot of times is all right we got to navigate this we got to make sure this happens you know playing point guard. So cc will have these takes and you know what prompted of like today for example there was a bit the two of them had a conversation yesterday. because I overheard it about CJ Stroud where they were like, okay, if CJ Stroud and the Texans offense does not look good against the Tampa Bay Bugs, there's something there. So you know, I'll throw that out there. CCO fight them on it. Like not in a, we shouldn't talk about that. But like, sure. And then CCO go through the process of, okay, so these things happen. Here's where I think this could go. And he's right every time it's unbelievable, right? So there's, there's really a great process of developing these things, making them out. And he gets them right. Yeah, yeah. No, definitely a lot a lot of this stuff like I'll see the, see the clip go viral and and be like, wow, that's like, that's a ridiculous take. And then a few months later, yeah, like it is, you look back. Yeah. Yeah. So me, right, it makes it also, you, you realize that those takes are authentic to when that happens. No, no, no. How have listeners responded to the show? They seem to like it. And they seem to appreciate the chemistry. Yeah. Interesting thing. So we say, we're in a range marriage. We didn't know it. None of us knew each other prior. I had one or two phone calls in my life with smalls based on a connection through other people. Babs and I interviewed Kanti on our show that we had years ago when he was on the Ravens. Yeah. So I think that was the only time that I know of that I spoke to him. So we were in a range marriage. And what's interesting is every single time you mentioned Rob. So every time that Rob puts social out of the three of us outside of that studio, it's amazing the reaction of it's so great to see how genuine you are towards each other. And I think there's a difference between listeners and fans. I think we have a lot of listeners. I hope we have a lot of listeners and viewers. I think the goal is to develop fans. People that believe in the show, people that believe in the relationships, people that follow along with us. And I think that you're starting to see slowly but surely that's now happened. Right. We're only as you said, we're only two years in. So it's not like we've been on for that long. And I think they're seeing like, you know, we do this Habatchi event at my house now every year. We went to Lambo last week together. And we were all hanging out at a big pre-gain party at the Tundra Trio right by Lambo. Those are the moments that I think the people, when they respond to that, that's when you start to realize, oh, they're there and they want more of this. Yeah. And you obviously, you experienced that with Morning Men. Like you, you saw the, the fans develop. So let's, let's just start with why, why did Morning Men come to an end? Let me go to the fans first if I could. Yeah. On that. So that was the number one amazing thing about Morning Men is that the fan base was so active. And your dream scenario in this for fans teammates and partners is for the fans to activate anything the partner, the advertising partners, or in our case, then the subscriptions is basically the advertising part, like paying for something, but they feel like they're getting a return on investment. And then the teammates, like our team was so happy with that. Babs and I were together for 12 years. I look back and I say, you could not have done more to care about a show than we did. You just couldn't. We lived and breathed and every moment of that show, we cared so much. And it got to a point at the end where I wish I would have understood now what I didn't understand then. And I never would have understood it until I went through some of the amazing things I've gone through with the SPN. And that is how to take something that was good and got great and make it greater. And so I think what ended up happening was I look back at those last couple of years and say, what could I have done better? Right? Could I have made, and I have no regrets at the end result. I have regrets at my time while I was there in terms of I wish I would have done more to make those last few years better. The SPN came calling. My contract was up. I think everybody thought it was the right move for me to go to ESPN. I obviously did. ESPN did. I think Sirius did. Also, I mean, I know Sirius did. Like, hey, this is out there. They were amazing on the way out. I think I did everything I could on the way out to keep it clean and do the greatest job we could in terms of ending on a high note. I mean, they gave me this unbelievable opportunity to have a farewell show. And they wanted to go and move that show and that slot into the different direction while I was going and moving in a different direction myself. I think it was just it was time for everyone. And it was done as clean of a way as you'll ever see. So we're like, were you hosting the show at the end knowing like how long did you know the show was going to come to an end that you were you were still on it? Because that is that's a difficult thing. If you know, if you know, yeah, that's that's hard. Like, it's one thing to, you know, to know that the show is ending and then to go back and maybe do one episode or something, but to know for a month. That's that's that's not easy. So we knew I want to say, let's I think I'm I have to look at the exact dates. Here's the crazy thing. Like I was I happen to be looking at this the other day. I have an email back and forth with some people from serious about how we want to navigate the last month together. There was like no issue at all in terms of they knew where they wanted to go. I knew where I wanted to go. We actually worked together on all of it. Yeah. And we had the whole thing kind of planned out as wild as that sounds. The own I'll tell you the guys on a shoot. The only thing that wasn't planned out and we scrambled to make sure we took care of it properly was when it would be reported of the the new show on sports. I don't think it was called on. I don't think we called it on sports me like at that time, but of CC Smalls and I of when that would actually get out there. That was the only thing that was the hiccup is oh, that's about to be reported. And we need to make sure that here's how we're going to address that if we choose to address that. I mean, you would not believe how often I'm still in contact with some of the people at serious trading ideas. Yeah. But there's no bad but at all in any way, shape or form from either party. It's wild. It actually makes no sense. Right. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't. And you're probably not believe. You know, you're probably don't believe me. But here's the best way I can make this point. So I had this final show, this send off show with Vabs. Right. This very emotional show. You were a part of it. You were at our events. You know what we were like. You know how close we are. That was actually not my final show. I filled in on NBA radio later that day. So like there's just there's no bad blood at all. I just wanted Vabs taking care. That's it. I wanted exit properly. I wanted to make sure that he was going to continue in the mornings, even if I wasn't. So do you think that it helped that you had this the ESPN show already lined up? Like would it would there have been bad blood if you were leaving serious and didn't know where you were going next? I don't think it would have gotten to a point where I wouldn't have been there fully. My guess is I wouldn't have been on that show. But my guess is I would have had an opportunity to be a part of the company in some capacity because of how peaceful it was. Right. Because of how professional it was. You can literally interview any single person there. And they will tell you the exact same thing. I'm telling you there was they made a decision. I made a decision. We were doing it simultaneously. Right. I had a hunch of where they wanted to go. I knew what was potentially in front of me. Right. I think that neither of us pursued anything more in that moment because we all kind of realized this run on that slot on that show is probably over. I don't know that my time at that company would have been over if ESPN didn't want me. Yeah. That I'm guessing. Right. There was I never engaged in conversation. I'd be stunned based on my current conversations if there wasn't some sort of idea. I'm not saying I would have been five days a week in the morning. I wouldn't have been. But I would have had something. I think. Did you feel so like you you had mentioned that there you look back and there are you wonder if there are things that you could have done differently in the last two years. Did you feel like the show was getting complacent or or stale like or or do you look back now and say no like morning men still had had more to give. So I feel like I didn't know was getting complacent because all I was doing was talking to my best friend every day. So that was always going to be fun for me. I probably thought everybody just thinks it's still as fun. Yeah. And I probably wish I would have done, even if it would have ended, I wish I would have vetted it and done a better job of acting as if cool. We reached these points. We built literally something from nothing. There was never anything like that at Sirius on Maddox Words Radio. There was nothing that I'm saying on the show that didn't come from somewhere else, or hadn't had a name prior to that. So I, but I didn't know that then. But then, but then, Brandon, then you go back and you think about this. All right, if I wasn't unknowingly complacent, am I on this show now? Right? Maybe they're eager to say, hey, let's extend you guys. What am I not going to sign a contract to be on Sirius with with that show that I loved? Right. Right. So I'm unbelievably fortunate because my complacency, let's say, to use your words and you're probably not wrong about that, led to insane motivation to make this show amazing. Yeah. So I got lucky in many ways. I failed up. So how did the fans and listeners react to you leaving that show? Yeah, that was a hard one because, Babs and I would always talk about on the air how inseparable we were and how we like wanted to go forever. And then it was probably portrayed. And I understand this as I was dumping Babs, which has not happened. And so I understand if I took key, that's okay. That's like, that's normal. That's a compliment, right? Like, I mean, hey, there was something there that you guys all liked for so long that you want to continue. So that that part is always tough. But the great part about today is it's not like I can't keep in touch with them. Yeah. The cows, as you mentioned, the fans and listeners that we had for so long, I mean, so many of them are still loyal to us. And here's the greatest part. They could listen to Babs and watch watch us. So I'm also saying, like, I have so many of the people that go back and forth. And that's the biggest compliment. I don't want them not to listen to Babs. I want them to listen and watch us too, but not to not listen to Babs, right? Consume both of us. That's great. So I think the ones that understand Babs and I and understand who we were and who we still are as friends consume both of us. And a lot of times I bet you it's based on different topics, different times of day, at times of the year, etc. In terms of what we're going to give versus what they're going to give, it's, you know, it's all on and so forth. It's been more than two years now. Like, will there have you thought you said you're obviously you're still in touch with Babs, you said you speak regularly. Will there ever be a reunion show? I don't know. That's an interesting one. I don't know where that would, I guess they would have to live on serious. They would have to ask me to do that. It would have to be at a time that would not, I wouldn't miss on sportsman like for that. But I certainly would be up for that if ESPN wanted that, if ESPN allowed that, I mean, I'm not going to jeopardize anything at ESPN. I mean, the greatest thing, the greatest thing about the Morning Men on Sportsman like connection is that the person, the people that hired me at ESPN, Amanda Gifford and Justin Craig, would legitimately be texting and emailing me during Morning Men because I've known them forever listening to the show and giving me feedback on the show, right? So I'm just thinking how cool is this? I didn't realize they were listening critically for a reason, right? But that would happen Justin and Amanda all the time, okay? We go to the Super Bowl. We have this unbelievable setup that ESPN provided. So I'm literally, I turn around, babs is in here because it was probably free food. Babs is in there. He's talking to Nuno, our producer, they're laughing. He's talking to Smolves. And then he's talking to CC, which is an amazing dichotomy of how short babs is and how tall CC is. It's just the camaraderie amongst us that I think that we are so lucky on our show that we all have amazing radio and content pasts to get us all together. That I don't think any of us would feel awkward about any kind of version. Let's just say for our human sake, Smolves went back and there was a one on one ESPN and St. Louis reunion show for her show. That'd be great. Let's say, Panty and Carlin, they were great together, did as a bit a reunion week for that show on another time slot in ESPN radio or even our time slot of Smolves and I are all no issues, right? They would they would completely understand and support babs and I doing at reunion show knowing none of us are interested in going backwards, but all of us are interested in celebrating our pasts. Yeah. And I think it is it's also unique that two people who work together for so long when they split like I don't know that it seems like the relationship the off air relationship usually deteriorates when the on air relationship is ended. So I do think it is it is unique that you guys are still in in touch and as as close as as you are. And I also I also think it's unique that to have a radio show that had the loyal following that you guys did. So I'm sure there would be plenty of people that would be eager, especially if it was a live show or anything like that. Like the way you guys were able to bring people together from around the country. I don't I don't like when that first started the first time you guys had Falcon were you confident that you were going to have all these people come to or were you concerned like no, like we might just show up and nobody else is going to be there. No, I full transparency. I did not want to do it because I thought the entire time I'm like what are we doing? We're going to set ourselves up to fail. I was like no, we're going to be fine. I said we've built up this community, but it's a lot easier to be a community on Twitter and on the phone than it is to fly to New York, which is not a cheap place to get to or to stay and have these fans show up. So I'm like why are we doing this? But this is where Babs is one of one. So Babs like it's fine. I know everybody's going. I'm like how do you know? Babs gives out his actual cell phone number on the app. So he communicates with the fans of the show, the files on a regular basis where they'll like send them the screenshots of their flight info. So he knew all along all of this was confirmed that we were going to get all these people to show up there, but that's all him. That's him. He's what we were able to do and what we are starting to do for sure. Again, year two versus year 12, it's not a fair con, right? But it's make national local. When we went to Green Bay last week and me, CCN Smalls are walking around and people are stopping the two of them more so than me, but they're stopping them and say, I listen to the show, I watch the show. That's making national local, right? And that's like, you know, you're in that community. And Babs is a king of that. And Sirius XM is so lucky to have him because he is the kind of person that would be scooped up by any content company in two seconds because of the connection with the fans. And I know like Jared Fox who runs Sirius XM now on the sports content side, there's no bigger fan of Babs than Jared. Like Jared is amazing. And Jared gets Babs and values Babs in a way that is awesome. And that's the thing that we feel now with our show is Justin and Liam and the people in charge Dave and Mike and everybody in charge of our show like values what we're doing in a way of that's how we have to get this done. What have you taken from Morning Men that was that was successful that you've tried to implement at ESPN? Being a clown. Seriously, like I was as serious and trying to be a serious broadcast air for as long as I possibly could. And while I still am at times, like being a clown when it's right is not a bad thing. And being the butt of the jokes is really what I understood having gone through that show because I was not that way coming up on ESPN West Mom at all. But now here understanding like it's okay to be made fun of. I'm not going to be thought of less than because I'm being made fun of because that's more related. Like there if CC and Smalls want to make fun of me, it probably indicates that the majority of the audience also wants to make fun of me. So let it happen. How is having the show Simulcast on TV every day? That was something that I was a little nervous about because I've never been a part of that kind of platform ever in any way shape or form. Serious is big. It's not ESPN ESPN 2 ESPN you 500 radios station, Series XM80, like all of the things we have the app now. So that part was definitely new for me. And you know Nuno and Pat and Cam and go on to our producers, like, they have to be conscious of the TV part two. Right? There'll be times early on where I'll just like on the drop of a dime, decide to go in a different direction than we were planning on. And Nuno in a break, and he was right, I was wrong. He would say to me, like, you can't just do that. Like, what do you mean I can't just do that? Like, it's a radio show. It's feel, it was, I'm not debating that because we've got to let TV know because if they're playing video on Joe Burrow and we're talking about that press got it actually looks bad. Really, I have to worry. Like, yeah, you have to worry about that. You're doing a radio show, but you have to be conscious of the TV show too. And so I would fight back with Nuno when he was right the entire time, because he wasn't saying to me, don't talk about what you think is going to hit. Just communicate that to the control room. Whereas I'm used to doing a radio show over 20 years, where if like in the drop of a dot, whatever you're thinking about asking next, you can just decide to ask something different. Right. I can't actually always do that now. Yeah, I can, but it's literally hitting the talk back button and saying, you know, let's think about going here or him saying, let's go there. Right? Like, that's different. Hair and makeup every day. That part's different looking at you know, all that stuff. Yeah, we had, we had Rich Eisen on last month. And I asked him if he considers his show more of a TV show or radio show. And he said he treats it like it's a TV show that happens to be on radio, where I think most radio shows that are, are simulcast on TV. They're a radio show show first that happens to be on TV. So how do you view it? That's the way you said. Yeah. Yeah. So Rich, Rich is on another level, Rich is unbelievable. Rich has an ability to do that and still be great on the radio. So for us, what we do is we're a radio show first that is also on TV, factoring in the positivity around being on TV, because we're going to have video, because ESPN has the ability to show all of the highlights that ESPN is able to show. Because we can point things out on a screen, but obviously be conscious of the radio audience, but I would agree for our show specifically, what you said is how we operate. Does it feel like having been at ESPN for two years now? Does it feel like ESPN still prioritizes radio? Oh, God yeah, more than ever. Like that's the, the wildest thing on this is you are totally in the right to ask that question. But the craziest thing that I think that people think is that ESPN doesn't prioritize radio. And here's why I have countless examples as to why I would think that it does. So the number one thing that you can do in terms of radio is make it into a business where everybody makes money, right? So what it is ESPN do and full transparency. I also work for good karma brand. So I am biased in my next answer. ESPN said, let's get the people that are better at selling radio than anyone in America that they treat radio like marketing and content partnerships. And let's work with them to build this thing up. So ESPN decides to partner with good karma brands to invest even more in radio sales. That's number one. Number two, if you look at the hiring of CC of smalls of myself of Clinton of Q Myers. Harry Douglas, Freddie Coleman, Amber Wilson, Ian Fitzsimmons, the entire Emmett golden, the entire team. Okay. J rounds. What they decided to do, Justin Craig, Amanda Gifford, Dave Roberts, Mike Foss, Mark Gross, all the people that I'm going to talk. What did they decide to do? They decided to say, what is worked historically at ESPN radio? And you know what it is? Find radio people to do radio shows. Greeny, Goliq. They weren't mega stars until they got to ESPN radio and we're amazing. Okay, Kong Cowhert, Portland Oregon to ESPN radio. Mega star Ryan Ristillo. Awesome. Was not a radio star. I'm sorry, was not a TV star or a ringer star or a barstall star like he is now. But then he, they, he loves this. He worked Ryan Ristillo works as ass off and worked as ass off on radio to make it into a big radio platform. Lab at art, all of these people that were radio people that came up, came up how we came up. So there are actually in many ways, recreating what they deemed to have worked for them the most and trying to do it with us. So when people say to ESPN care about radio, yeah, I think they care about radio more than ever. Getting the best sales team and building radio with radio people. Sounds pretty good to me. Yeah, no, that's a, that's a good point because like you, you guys replaced or followed Max colorman, Keeshawn and J Williams, correct? Who are, yes, okay, let's talk about those, those three. You will not find a smarter person and better broadcaster than Max. He's unbelievable. Literally the best boxing announcer ever brilliant basketball mind, right? Keeshawn. Go ask anybody, ESPN LA, they absolutely love him. He's brilliant as well at Pat and, and you know, tell me all the time about how he's takes where like, are you like almost can't you like in this way of like, are you sure? You know, you know, you're like, "I'm just gonna have a lot of fun with you." And then we're like, "I'm just gonna have a lot of fun with you." And then you're like, are you sure? And then, oh, wow, it's right. And Jay, Jay has become very close with, because Jay is still with us at ESPN. Jay. Jay is so smart and so such an entrepreneur that at times I have there's at the jail. I'm like, why are you wasting your time doing things like dumb meat, like you should be running a fortune 500 company. So those three are superstars. And we got, yes, we follow those three. Correct. They weren't necessarily, I mean, I know like, like Max and Keishon, they had plenty of radio experience, but at that point, they didn't seem like radio guys that were getting partnered together for that show. So did it, did it feel like a lot of star power to follow? Or is it, is it, are you more so just kind of knowing that no, you guys are your radio hosts at heart and you don't know what it is. Sorry, but to me, Brandon, it's not about following. Yes, I said, we technically follow them, right. But I look at it as like, we got to build on what they did, right. So Mike and Mike, obviously, insane what they were able to accomplish. The greatest national morning show on the sports side ever, not even a close second, right. And that six, eight, so you have what they did, then you have Trey Wingo and Goliath and Goliath Jr. You take what they did. Okay. So they built upon that. And then Zubin and then Max and then Keishon and Jay and all of the teammates that we have had previously. So every single year building, right. The least likely group to build was our group. If you just think about it logically, like how are these three going to build on those platforms when all of these people were staples on ESPN. Right. And the way to do it was simply show up and do our job every single day and let this process play itself out and care about this is our first priority and only priority. Right. So what he has been is done is they did an amazing job of making sure that this show is the number one priority and then everything else supplements that. Whereas to their other teammates that you mentioned credit, they all had a million responsibilities simultaneously. Yeah. Right. So CC does first take every Tuesday that adds on to this. He doesn't miss our show. Smalls does NFL live. She does vibe check. She's able to do our show in addition to those things. So I think it's our job to build on what our teammates prior did. And so at least likely to do it. So what avenues can we take to do it right show up every day lean on our radio professionalism. Make this make the main thing the main thing and rely on the people around us. New know and Pat and camp and Jobante and Rob. And once that crew has settled in with Justin and Liam leading the way. I mean, that's how we do it. It's kind of cool that you Chris and Michelle, like you all work your way up from from local radio to this point. Like yes, Chris is a former NFL player, but, but he wasn't an MVP quarterback or a superstar when he was playing like this. It wasn't given to any of you like the platform had to be earned at this point. Yeah, and so let's talk about that because it's a great observation by you. And this is just speaking about our show. It's not speaking about anybody previously. So Chris would show up to ESPN New York his dad. Love build, doctery or loves build, doctery, okay, ESPN host near coast for a long time. Yeah. And his dad would put in his head how good build doctery was as a host. So CC found a way to get in touch with them. He became his mentor. And CC just started showing up to ESPN New York for free to just offset in for an hour. So one thing leads to another right he's doing volunteer work in essence or internships or everyone. While also winning a Super Bowl. And then he's getting a random hour here a random hour there than a show here then a show there then a night show then a day show then a morning show and then national. Afternoons then national more. Yeah, so if you look in his process. It started from working for free and then all the way up small. I mean, this is, you want to talk about working her? way up, she was a radio producer in St. Louis. She then got a radio producer, job at ESPN Radio, and worked extremely closely with Ryan Ricillo and Danny Canal and George Siddano and Jen Lada. And she to this day has amazing relationships with all of them. And Ryan has been amazing to her as a mentor and friend. I know. I mean, I don't speak to them directly about it, but I know obviously. And she then goes back to St. Louis as a host, then comes back to New York to just on September 4th of whatever the year before we started, September 4th, the year before we started, whatever that was, um, 22, I think you started in 23. It's great. So it's 20 September 4th, 2022. She gets, she goes to New York. So I'm just going to roll the dice. She then starts filling in on ESPN Radio nights and weekends. And she starts filling in ironically on Series XM, including once filling in on warning man, um, not with me or Norbabs. So she's doing all of that. ESPN is putting this show together. Justin and Amanda at the time were kind of looking at, okay, who could be with who? How do we work this out? And she gets hired. And she was literally on a fill in shift. Justin text, Dustin Craig text in her, I need to talk to you after the show. Now you get that text. Yeah. You get nervous. Right? Oh my God. What did I do? I think that she was just ready to sign a new filling part time contract. Maybe I don't get it. And Justin presented her the opportunity to host in the mornings. And so yeah, the three of us really did work our way up. But the two of them, I mean, to their credit, they worked their butts off to get to this place. Is it concerning at all that there's been so much turnover at ESPN radio in recent years? Like I think you guys might be now the longest 10 year show in that lineup in the time slot that you are. And I think that that's part of why there's the question sometimes about ESPN, whether it prioritizes radio or not, because of all that turnover. Yeah. Um, no, there's no worry at all about that because are we satisfying fans teammates partners? That's the way I look at it, right? Yeah. Friends seem to be growing numbers would indicate that in terms of the numbers that we care about relative to audio and video streaming as well as digital consumption. Um, teammates, our show has a camaraderie that right now is awesome. They send us on the road together. We hang out together at my house out to dinner with significant others with other members of ESPN and ESPN radio and the Aaron makeup team, which has been, you may laugh when I say this, the Aaron makeup team has been a huge positive influence on this show. I'm being serious. They hang out with us all the time because they're just from Lou Anita Ashley, our three Aaron makeup artists. We come in the morning. First people we see they put a smile on all of our faces. They come to our events. The hand with us. So like now you're thinking, okay, well, the teammate part of it fans, teammates partners fans growing engagement with fans, teammates. It's not just the three of us. It's new. No, it's Pat. It's Cam. It's it's Shobante. It's the makeup artists. It's Mike who runs the whole operation with us. So now we have an army. So getting in theory and your hypothetical, not that you're suggesting this, but in your hypothetical, getting rid of us is getting rid of a lot of people. Right. There's a lot of people that you would have to get to buy into whatever is next and the partners. So I can only speak towards what I've been told. Nuno has been there a very long time as his Pat and they say the advertising partners that have jumped on board with this show have been tremendous relative to growth of year over year. So I don't know what else I can worry about other than those three things. Sure. Yeah. Is the show you guys broadcast from New York every day? Yeah. So no, so we're in New York where the new ESPN building, the Disney building on Seven Hudson. We have a studio there. It's in the same building as first take and get up. We were previously in the same building as them. Also, we all move to a brand new studio. The only time we're not there is if we have special events or family emergency, family obligations elsewhere. Right. Yeah. We will be in Bristol at times, depending on events, schedules, whatever. And then obviously family stuff if we are somewhere else, but I don't know 90 to 95% of the time we're all in the same spot in that same studio. How do you like place? It's huge. Let me just point that out because you know, one of the things my final couple of years it's serious is we weren't in the office five days a week. We weren't all in the same place. We're all in the same place, probably two days a week if that. Yeah. So we're all there five days a week. How do you like getting to do first take the times that you've done that? I still can't believe it. Honestly. It's just been amazing. I've been so unbelievably lucky. I remember David who is the producer, executive producer of the show walked up to me one day in the hallway. This is probably. I don't know October of last year, November of last year. He comes up to me and he says, would you ever be interested in doing TV? I said, sure, whatever you want me to do because in my head, I'm still the new guy. In my head, I have so much. This is not in my head. This is fact. I have so much to still prove. So he comes up to me and he says, would you be interested in doing TV? I said, sure. What do you need? What do you want? And I'm thinking it's like, yeah, come in to train on whatever show it is. There are some digital shows that ESPN is starting to create. And I had just recently talked to Justin Craig by boss about hoop streams, the NBA digital show. If maybe they ever needed a fill in there, if I could potentially try out for that. And so I'm thinking, that's what he means. Literally, the next thing he says was, are you available to host first take on January 1st? I was like, I'm sorry, what? There's no in between. I figured I had to do a bunch of things until then. And to David's credit, David McKinnon, he believed in me. He thought, I think you're going to be able to do this. Put me out there on January 1st. And I've hosted, I don't know, five, six times, maybe something like that. So far, over the last year, I even year. And it's been amazing. The team that they have is so professional and so smart. And the way they craft things is so real. That's the thing. People have this ridiculous thought. I'm like, oh, they're making up the base. I see the prep that goes into it. It's like, okay, so Brandon believes this, Evan believes this. This may not work together. Let's alter some of the topics here. Oh, oh, Brandon's really hot on this topic. Let's plan to that. But nobody fakes it. Nobody makes it up. It's crafted in a way that perfectly guides the audience and the viewers for the two hours. And I want to point out one of the things every single time I'm on, I send a note to Steve and I afterwards to thank him. And I've never actually been on with Stephen. That's I didn't think that she didn't know. I was never on with Molly. But every time I send a note to Stephen, I had a thank you. I have never seen the two people I've seen in my life that no, three people that I've seen in my life that respond the quickest. Stephen A Dan Patrick Adam Schuster. It's it's you wonder why people get to the level that they get to. It's because of the professionalism and the kindness that they have. Stephen A opens doors for so many people and he opened the door for me to fill in. And every time I reach out to thank him, he responds immediately saying something kind to me. So did you know have you have Stephen A prior? It was there because was he at mad dog? Yeah, you want to talk about a teammate. If that guy is on your team, he does what it takes for your team. So when I was on his team, it's serious. He would call into the show brand like all of a sudden I'd see a number on the guest line. And I'd say to babbling, who is that? When I would have a guest this segment. And you see that and then you start to recognize the number and I'm like, Oh, that's Stephen. He's just calling to chime in on something. So yeah, he's he was amazing to us then. And now, you know, he brings on canty every Tuesday. Right. He talks about canty when he's not there. And he hides the part show, which is great. There's it. I was driving in this morning and there was a promo of Stephen A talking about canty on our show, um, hyping up on sports, which is amazing. Yeah. It's it seems like he loves he loves Chris canty's takes for sure. Yeah, he does for sure. Um, he's our producer was his producer for years. So he's got the relationship with new know as well. Yep. Yeah. Were you surprised of to see the the news about Molly Keram leaving ESPN? I mean, I imagine everybody is kind of shocked by it considering Stephen A Smith said he was even surprised by it. So we get done with the show today. Um, September of 16. We get done with the show. And I look up at the screen. Like Stephen's on like a one shot. What is everything okay? I thought something was wrong. I mean, something, you know, changed obviously, but I didn't know what was going on. And so Nuno said to me down the lines because they're so the producers are in Bristol, actually, but we're in New York. So Nuno said to me down the line, Stephen is addressing Molly leaving. So that was at, I don't know, 10 or five, 10 or four, whatever it was. I had to get in my car because one of the things I really pride myself on is as many affiliate hits as I possibly can do. on a regular basis. So I had an affiliate hit when I'm on weekly, I'm very fortunate in this one to be on ESPN LA every single week. So I'm getting in the car and then I'm on there. I was on ESPN was constant after that. So I didn't even know what was, I still haven't done all my homework as to what happened. So I don't know anything other than unfortunately, Molly is not on the, you know, on the active roster, let's say right now. - Yeah, yeah. No, last night it was reported that she was at sports business journal reported that she was gonna be leaving at the end of the year. And then she confirmed that she was leaving on Instagram last night and then this morning. And she was on first take yesterday on Monday. And then today Tuesday she was not there and Steven A opened the show addressing that she was gone. So it was, it was, I mean, the whole thing is surprising. I think it was extra surprising to hear that she was leaving at the end of the year last night was the report and then seeing today that she wasn't, that decided that they were gonna part ways immediately. - One of my favorite things about Molly, I get such a kick at watching her dog. - Yeah. - I talked to her briefly, briefly two seconds in passing once because, you know, I'm done at 10, she's on at 10. So there's not at the time for us to shoot 'cause she's in show prep mode. But as somebody that grew up loving Mike in the mad dog and getting to know mad dog and getting to work with him, I see that she's the same. And I said, 'cause those two on Wednesdays, they, they, they, it was such, you could sense the love between the three of Molly, Steven A and dog. Like you watched those three, like they, there was such great camaraderie and chemistry. And I said to her, I'm like, I just love the way you are with dog. And she said, my whole family grew up on that show and with him and like, I get such a kick out of him being there. (laughing) - It was so, for me, again, I still look at myself somewhat as a new guy, like that was cool for me to relate to her in that regard because that's the way that I am. I still kick out of seeing you. - Yeah. - I see more now than I did when I worked with him, which is weird. - Yeah, right, 'cause he was on in afternoons, you're on mornings and now it's a little bit more. - I see, yeah, most of the time. - Yeah. So would you be, obviously, I know you said, you don't really know everything that's going on, so I don't wanna hold you to anything. But would you be interested in hosting first take more now that they're gonna need? Fill in a lot more fillings in the neck. Like, Steve and A is hosting himself this week. I'm sure I doubt that that's gonna be the long-term plan. So is that something that you'd be interested in doing more of? - I have interest in Dave Roberts and the entire content team doing what they think is best for content. And anything that any path they have led me down thus far has been amazing for unsportsman Mike. (laughing) - Have you, did you get to host first take when Dog was there at all? - No, that's an, I have not filled in with Dog there either. I don't know if he has, he may have it in his contract where he's not a lot to be near me on air. - Yeah, I'm not sure. - But no, I have not done that yet either. - But being that you're, - That would be amazing. - Yeah, and you're departure from serious XM, like you said, was one that was smooth. So it wouldn't be like awkward or anything with you. - Oh, with Chris? - Yeah. (laughing) - No, not it, I was literally on a plane with his wife the other day. (laughing) I had to return the text from his son when we're done. Like, no, I'm not even in the slightest, not in the slightest. I'm telling you, there's not one, go ask anybody serious. There's not one person I have an awkward relationship with. - Yeah. So you mentioned you were a mic in the mad dog listener growing up. So then how was it getting to know Chris in your career? - That was surreal. It's still surreal, honestly. Like, when I think about the relationship I have with Chris, I think about the relationship I have with Dan Patrick and others in this industry. And you filled in for Dan Patrick once, right? - You did. - I was an I did it twice. - Twice. - I think, yeah, twice, two days in a row I think we did. Dog is, the reasons at nine years old growing up in New York. I listened to Mike in the mad dog and listened to Howard Stern. And Howard Stern is the greatest radio host to ever live. Is the greatest radio mind to ever live. Has the greatest radio show that ever existed. And warnings would be that afternoons would be Mike in the mad dog. And the fact that I have a personal relationship with Dog, the fact that he signed off on employing me for 12 years, the fact that he's been on unsportsman like and Kancy loves him and small loves him. And that I have the personal relationship with he and his family. It's still surreal to me, honestly. And I probably will always have, as it relates to him, a high level of imposter syndrome of, I don't really deserve to be here because look at what he's done and look at what I've done. And I don't know that I'll ever get over that. - A few things. You grew up in New York, but you're a Miami Heat fan. So did that come later from when you were working? - I'm pathetic. I'm a pathetic sports fan, I'll do that. So 2003, a group of us started a radio station. I was hired to be a part of in West Palm Beach, Florida. It was the largest market in the country without an all sports radio station dedicated to the market. And one of my mentors, Matt LePay, voice of the Wisconsin Badgers, said to me when I was in college, he said, "You'll learn when you get in this industry. You root for people first." And I didn't understand what he meant. I'm like, "What do you mean, I'm a met's fan. I'm gonna root for the met's. What do you mean the people?" I'm rooting for the laundry. The old Jerry Seinfeld bit. And so we get to South Florida and the heat was so unbelievable in embracing us. At that time, we were some tiny little radio station in West Palm. We carried their games, but you really couldn't hear us at that time at night. I was also on at night, so you couldn't hear me at night. And they would give us guests and they would invite us to games. And they would give us press passes. And they would say we could broadcast right in front of games. I'll never forget one time where, I mean, we're at a tiny little station. I'm broadcasting in front of the arena. Jay-Marg John Martin, the guy I mentioned before, he and I are sitting outside on a makeshift table, probably with like a banner we created in arts and crafts class. And I looked down to my right. I was like, "There's another makeshift set up here. Who the hell is that?" Like that looks like my camp counselor. And I walked from when I was 12 years old. And I camp when I came to New Hampshire and I walk over. I'm like, "That is my camp counselor." And Stugat, Sean Winner, was my camp counselor when I was a kid. I know it was him broadcasting right there next to me. And I didn't know he was in radio. He didn't know I was in radio because we had long gone. They're like, "Why is my camp counselor here?" But the heat were always amazing to me. I think they're the best organization in all of sports. The way that they treat people is phenomenal. They're players, they're class active, the organization. So I started running for the people. So I moved down there and they were so good to us. And they still are that I just started running for this. This is before Wade, before Shaq, before LeBron, before any of these guys. - How was Stugat's as a camp counselor? - I just remember him always with the lacrosse deck. There was never a time where he did not have a lacrosse. There were times where he was like, to put the lacrosse deck on the ground and like put like the butt of the lacrosse deck into his stomach because he didn't want to like fully stand up. So he'd almost use it as like a cane on a cell. Which he didn't have like a belly, but I'm saying on his stomach. Yeah, he was, he was, I mean, he's, he and I have always, well, since that moment, I've always stayed in touch. - Yeah, that's a, that's a pretty crazy story. You also, you mentioned being a, a Stern listener, did you get to interact with Howard at all when you were at Sirius? Because I would imagine at least during your early years at Sirius Howard was still going into the studio but more often. So when I left Sirius XM, I sent, it's 50 or 60 thank you notes to people. Because I had a 12 year run. - Yeah. - Sirius. And I wanted to thank everyone 'cause you know, you don't get a 12 year run in one spot and in essence one time slot, we were six to nine, six to 10, let's just call it one time slot. - Yeah. - With one person for 12 years. That is insane to think that could happen. And so on the way out, I'm like, there's so many people that I wanna thank for this. And I want them to know how appreciative I actually am for this 12 year run. So I do all these thank you notes, I have amazing interactions with people, kind of like reliving all these great times. And then I realize after it, I'm like, the one person I wanna thank the most, I don't have an ability to thank. I don't have its contact information. We never really interacted in any way, shape or form. And not 'cause he wouldn't. I just, I was, I saw him a few times. I was too scared to say hello. I didn't wanna bother him, which is funny, 'cause I don't have a Peter Stryger and I just talked about this last week. How he was in the same spot, he saw Howard somewhere and he's like, I can't say anything. Like I just can't do this. If you know about Howard, and this is what Peter and I were talking about, and he is great. I had had, we've had, I don't know, like a few months working together, couldn't be nicer, I've had amazing interactions with him. So we're literally trading these stories about how like we can't say hi to him. - Right, so we're part, let me roll the dice on something. So I sent an email to someone that I knew had his email and I'm like, listen, a below is an email that I would send to Howard if I had his info. I'm not actually asking you for his info. I'm asking you if you're willing to, to forward it to him. All of a sudden, I'm on the air, I'm on sportsman like, this is probably the first week the show. My Twitter is blowing up. People are tweeting how it's talking about you, how it's talking about you, how it's talking about you. I'm like, what? And I'm in the middle of this new show. I'm like, I gotta stay focused. They don't know me yet. I go back and I listen and Howard shouted me out on the air saying how nice of a note this was, how much it meant to him and how kind it was that I wrote it. He didn't know. It was the irony of all ironies is he he's the greatest ever. And the first real interaction by name that we had is when I left Syria and for 12 years too. Yeah. Yeah. But that's his. That's my I should have done that early. Why didn't I think that's six years? Right. You also you mentioned having a position with with good karma. What is what is your title with good karma? So my job with good karma is VP of content. So my job is to work with and coach all of our content teammates all across the country and work with the content directors as well as the market managers to best maximize the talents of all of our teammates and our assets. So that would be specifically West Palm Beach, Florida, Cleveland, Ohio, Milwaukee Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin, and Chicago, Illinois and B.B. Dan, Wisconsin, six markets. Sorry. Are you working with Colin Russo and Mike, like did you, did you have a hand in hiring Colin Russo and Mike Rizzo? Or do you just, do you work with them now that they they are there? So Colin went to UW, Madison, which is where I went to school. Yeah. Dog had Colin reach out to me and so they're credit. We had to have a conversation early on and this is not just Colin. This is Chris and and Genie is wife. He talked to and I've talked to Genie about that since. What are we looking for here? Like are we looking? Are you dog son or you Colin Mike? And there's a difference, right? And to his credit, it was always Colin. So what does what does that mean? That means cool. I'll put you in charge of the internship cord. That that it stops. You're not going to be on the air right away. You may not ever be on the air. You're not getting paid the most or the least. You are now going to work your way up. Yeah. So Colin Russo, I believe his first shift was to run the board Sunday mornings for a somewhat syndicated show in Madison, Wisconsin, which by the way is a great first job in radio. That wouldn't necessarily be dog sons first job on perception of what you would think that would be. You ran the board. He did events. He did street teams for years, while in college, and he has been Madison. He then worked his way up to run live shows during the week. He then worked his way up to be a fill in on the weekends. He worked his way up then to be one of the regular post game hosts for the Vaders on Saturday. He kept working and working and working his way up and he applied for an opening in West Palm and got the opening of West Palm. So to his credit, Mike, Mike too, I mean, Mike's dad Tony is a huge host as we know in Cleveland. Mike went to Mike was an intern, I believe in Cleveland, part timer in Cleveland did not have a show went to Peoria, Illinois was the marketing director and Peoria, Illinois as well as a fill in host slash producer and then a co host. So they worked their way. I mean, they and they have to work and we constantly remind them. You chose the hard way, not the easy way. You're not getting everything you want at all in any way, shape or form. And then with good karma, you're so you're only dealing with local affiliates. It's not there's nothing no responsibilities with the the national. No, no, no, no, no, no, New York, no, no, no national. Okay. So it's not like you, you can always the largest market that I have any involvement in content manage, not the manager of. Yeah. Did when you, what year did you get hired at ESPN West Palm? That and it was good. It was owned by good, it was owned by good karma at that point. Yeah. Well, it didn't exist. We started in March of three. Okay. So you had, you put it together. Yeah. And so that was Craig, Craig, Carlmason owned good karma at that time. Yeah. So Craig is the CEO and Steve Policy and her is the president of the company. They moved to Madison was Craig moved in 97. Steve moved in 98. Ironically enough, I started college at UW Madison in 1998. Okay. So to say I got lucky would be an understatement. So I have no idea where my career would be. And because I listened to dog and Howard at nine, at nine years old, I knew upon arrival at college, what I wanted to do. I just had to find the avenues to be able to do it. So I'm working at student newspaper and student radio my freshman year. And so when I'm getting all of these assignments all over the place, I'm also seeing these other two people who were starting a business covering sports. And that was the two of them. I had no idea that they owned radio, the radio station. I just thought they were a bad radio show because they were in the afternoons, which they were, but at times. But then I tried to emulate them on renounce them. But so that was, you know, that's what they were at that time. And so I got to know them having no idea they owned the station. And did Mel was Mel the CEO at serious when you went there? Like was and did you relationship with Craig helped that at all or was that? Yeah. So I'll tell you how that happened. So Patriots Jaguars, our Patriots Eagle Super Bowl and Jacksonville, which would be oh, five, I think I'd go to the Super Bowl. And we had five tickets to the game. So four on one section, one was in another section. I was assigned to be the one in the other section by myself. So I'm sitting there and I'm cheering. A person in front of me turns around and he says, I recognize your voice. I was like, okay, whatever. I'm on for a year and a half. There's no way you recognize my voice. And the small station at the time was because you live in West Palm. I said, yeah. And he recognized my voice. And I said, there's no way. I thought Stephen Craig put somebody up to this is like the bit. They felt bad that I was sitting alone. Whatever. So this guy by the name of David Miller, unbelievable, be nice guy. His best friend in the world is Bruce Murray. NFL radio. Literally the person in life you want to grow up to be like. I said, a national career forever, a wonderful family man. Never gets too high. Never gets too low. As even Keel and kind of a guy as you could ever imagine. And David's best friend is Bruce. Bruce at the time was doing a show with Bill Pito. Well, I've never met actually. Bill left serious XM to go to MSG full time, which ironically enough, he's still at, right? So I'm sorry, I skipped years. So that's 2005. So I meet this guy, David Miller. We then ended up hitting it off with the Super Bowl. We kept in touch. Fast forward 2011. That's when Bill Pito left serious XM to go to MSG full time. Bruce had a co-host. David Miller tells Bruce, this is the guy. You should talk to this guy. Bruce Miller tells Steve Cohen and Steve Torrey, who were my bosses for 12 years. They listen to my stuff. They reach out to me. I call Craig. Because I was nervous. I'm like, I was not applying for a job. I'm not about to lose this gig at ESPN West Palm. Like, what they're thinking that I'm flirting with someone else. I call Craig. Like, here's what happened. I don't know if this is for real. Like, I don't want to go around anybody. All right. Let me call my dad. Calls his dad. Is that it? Mal was the CEO of a billion dollar company. The morning, the morning fill in host possible at Mad Dog was not going to be something that was on his way. It was serious XM would not be as successful as it is. Right? So that's just should not be on his on his radar. So he gets in touch back in touch with Craig. He said, yes, it looks like the people in charge are interested in trying him out. Okay. Now, mind you, I'm listening. I'm living in South Florida. This is June of 2011. They fly me up for a tryout. June of 2011, Bruce Moran. I the three shows we did all were centered around the mabs and the heat and the NBA phones, which is what I was talking about every day, every day, anyway. This was not like me going there and talking hockey, which I'm not as familiar with, whatever. So I'm like, if I don't get this, I just think, like I should just give this up because the subject matter is literally something that I talk about all the time. And so I go and I do the tryout. They call me and they offer me the gig. Here's the problem. I wasn't interested in leaving good karma at ESPN West Palm. So at that point, I don't know. It was all worked out between Steve Craig and Steve Cohen. Was Mel involved? No. Am I idiot to think that Mel's presence didn't help me? Of course. Yeah. Right. Because can we kill two birds with one stone? Can serious XM get what they want? And can can Stephen Craig get what they want? Right. And it ended up working out, I think, for everybody because I don't think either company thought I was short-changing them. And interestingly enough, what ended up happening is I got the job to host with Bruce. I never actually hosted with Bruce. Two weeks prior to me starting, Steve Tory called me and said they were moving. Someone that's actually become a really good friend of mine, Jason Harowitz. Now the Raiders play by play guy to the college and pro stations. The NFL Radio and College. sports radio. So we'd actually rather you host in the mornings because Bruce can go solo, they wanted me with Phillips and Babs. So at Jason, so you would think, okay, that's going to be all of my stories that you think would be awkward. And so Jason, you would think, okay, well, he's not going to like me because I'm technically replacing him even though he's going somewhere else. Well, as a result of this, I moved to New York City. I leave Florida full time in New York City. We enroll my kids in preschool. We have, there's an open house before the preschool starts. I see the names of the parents and I see Jason Harlett. Oh my god. Jason and I start talking. I love the guy. Jason Harlett was a little guy ever. And he loved Babs and I was just a little thing because that was his slot that he left to go somewhere else. And yeah, my awkward situation somehow don't end up as awkward. I'm just the awkward one. And then how long were you doing mornings it serious? And you were doing, yeah, you were doing after his ID SP in West Palm until just a few years ago. Yeah. So I think when I stopped, like right before I stopped serious, I stopped the S&W's Palm. So I was doing it from go three to 23. Yeah, no, it's crazy. It's just, it's, amazing to see how many times like all these different your career kind of like intersected, like just the whole good karma with Craig and then serious with Mel and good karma with ESPN. And then now you're at ESPN and Chris Maddog Radio at Serious. And then now Maddog is also at ESPN. And then Colin Russo is at ESPN West Palm, which you have a hand in with good karma like all these all these different intersections going back and forth. It's quite the quite the career path, quite the run. I got very lucky and I have a lot of people that I've been fortunate enough to look out for me, right? From the team, Craig, to the people that's serious, to Justin and Amanda and all the people at ESPN. And I've been very fortunate. And it's also like, I guess because I also do part of the management job, I understand times what they're going through. Yeah, people like me, which is not easy to deal with at times. Yeah. Evan, you are great. Thank you so much for for doing the podcast today. Really appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it. This was awesome. Of course, that is Evan Cohen. I'm Brandon Contas. This is the Off-Lonancing podcast. Please rate and subscribe to this podcast. Please also subscribe to Off-Lonancing's YouTube page. But regardless of how you consume off-lonouncing and the off-lonouncing podcast, thanks for listening and be good. Thanks for listening to the Off-Lonouncing podcast. For the latest news, spanning the sports media landscape and more, check out offelonouncing.com and follow us at Off-Lonouncing.