Eurovision Chat Over Coffee, Basel 2025 Art Director Artur Deyneuve

The Big Footy issues from every angle dissected by a team that follows the game closer than anyone else. Wherever you are around the planet, this is your ultimate guide to the AFL. This is the Fox Footy Podcast. We came, we gathered, but only some conquered on the 4th edition of Gatheraround. A weekend of statements saw the latter even up just at little bit more. No more undefeated teams remaining and now just one club left without a victory. So other pretenders and the contenders starting to separate themselves will discuss all that plus much more on a post-Gatheraround edition of the Fox Footy Podcast. Ben Waterworth with you as is the new number one ticket holder to the Josh Carfan Club Max Lawden. Hello Maxi. Well, so I don't know if he was having a go though. That's the thing I can't tell, but he does appear to be at least a listener or a reader. What was the quote that he said in his post-Gather�? Please let me play you the clip. Oh, we've got a grab. Well, I've got a grab which I'll play from my phone because I did clip it up when I was alerted to the fact that as discussed last week that the division mind division into separation, which Melbourne ruined, but whatever. But Josh Car was clearly listening in and he was what he had to say. It's hard to know where we see their competition. You know, I'm going to be able to talk about Deep 1, Deep 2. So, you're going to win for the Deep 2, so that's the positive result. I like it. Good gag. He's supportive of his fellow. I don't know why he'd be a fan of Essendon winning, but you know, that's nice to be positive on his post. Hey, I think you've made some headlines there, Maxi. Clearly. He's taken notice. Also joining us is the man feeling like it's round 12, but it's really only round five. Ben Cotton. Ben, a long start to the season, basically. It certainly has and it's great to have you back, Ben. It's never been good to see you. We actually never been good to see you. It's never been better to see you. Welcome back. Bit of a bit of a relationship. And, yes, what is it, round 12, 13, 14? We've just finished. It's actually 20, 29 already. The Devils are going okay. What's their record? I think Daikos? 131. Okay. Besides, it's better than we thought. And, Daikos is getting 70 possessions a game. All right. Cool. That's working well. Fantastic. And that could be here. Natural inflation, of course. Well, yeah. Well, when they changed the multi-ball, when they brought it that in in 2028, it really changed the game. It's scary to think about what the world could look like in 2029. Oh, whether it exists. It's the same. The least. Maxi, the power rankings will be coming out on Tuesday morning at 6am on Fox 40.com. And, as has this podcast. As will this podcast. Tommy, it's nicely there. Any, as I mentioned off the topic, wasn't the most gripping, tantalising round. Yeah. I suppose things recently went to script from a tipping perspective. But were there some performances that stood out where teams have separated themselves from the rest either positively or negatively? Well, shall we do the power rankings live? Let's do the power rankings live. Let's workshop them. Who's the best team in the comp right now? Very tough question, is it not? I'm biased because I've predicted the preseason, but Sydney. Sydney, okay. They looked very impressive against Gold Coast. Who's the best team right now? Who's the Premiership Favourite? Probably two separate conversations. Sure. Premiership Favourite is probably still Brisbane. Yes. It's their confidence. Best team in the comp right now. The hottest team you'd have the number one in the rankings. Yes. Sydney Swans. Sydney or Hawthorne. I would have. Right. And Hawthorne beating Sydney, of course, in the game that was even more impressive than the margin suggests. So, I think I will have Hawthorne number one in the power rankings that have come out this morning beating the number previous number one in the board, OGS, who were admittedly under strength, but were quite well beaten. Were there alarm bells? Any alarm bells with the dogs? Not massive. It was a bit of an expected score game. They sort of kicked themselves out of it a little bit. They'd still deserve to lose. Don't get me wrong, but they did quite a bit wrong that you'd suspect might happen every week. So, it's just structurally, it's a bit rucks are both more important and also in some ways less important, but certainly you could feel on Saturday night with Hawthorne's duo doing pretty well for them. So, they are in a good position and Hawthorne have had some luck on their side of when they've played other good teams. They got Sydney the week after Haney and Gordon go down injured. And they get the ball dogs without English and with players playing on injury clouds and then going out as well like at Richards. So, that's helping them. Are we learning the wins? Sorry, we're learning about the bulldogs that they are maybe more reliant on their stars than some other clubs because Liberatori went out a couple of weeks ago, English goes down, all of a sudden Bont needs to carry a bigger load at Richards and they have to carry a bigger load. I just wonder, they obviously have great good depth, but I just wonder are they getting a little bit exposed for how reliant they are on their absolute top end? I think that's the question that has been surrounding this bulldogs list for a number of years. Is the question of the depth, is it great? Is it still star-er-line? I think there's something in that because there always has been a question mark on the underbelly of the Western bulldogs. It might be put to the test a little bit more in the coming weeks we wait to find out about Aaron Norton and the severity of his injury and kind of butter ex become a pretty important member of the backseat season or under injury cloud as well. So, bit of a litmus test coming up for the dogs. It's concerning, you also had Frio winning just. Would they have won that game 18 to 24 months ago? I don't know, did the coin come up heads or tails? I can't remember actually. So they had that run of close game wins last year that got them in, got them in, they had 16 wins last year and I think they have just had a few, you can look at it two ways. If you want to be generous, if you want to look at the narrative of they've learned how to win these games, sure. But also, Collingwood doesn't usually make those mistakes in that period of the game when they're ahead. They're usually quite good at shutting it down. So, if you put any merit in the idea that teams can win close games because of their choices, then explain Collingwood suddenly losing quite a few of their recent close games. I can't, I would say still that it's just the coin has gone their way a few times. Still, it's very important that they won because it's banking wins in a very tight top four race, but I don't put too much on the actual result. I came out of that night going a bit more negative on free-mantle because they were not overly impressive at all. I mean, that was a game being dragged back to the stone age just by Collingwood because that's the only way they could win it. And they still would win. So does that say more about Collingwood or than free-mantle? It's because this has been a narrative about Collingwood at the start of the season. They have not been a high scoring team and it's might be plastering over some cracks. Reinforces that, but it reinforces that they can scrap their way to nearly getting a win over a better team. The conditions have played a part in why it was so low scoring, but I think it's more that I would have liked to see a bit more from free-o in that game, but still got the win, which is the most important thing on the line. Just hold your hot pice. Yeah. It's the fear of fast-core. Keep going down there. You have the ranking ZBC? Max, you saw what? The balldogs. They're still up there. You know, you're taking to account their injuries as we said. Goldcoast is worrying. And King, King, King, he's the biggest goldcoast supporter. And he, for the last couple of weeks, he said, "I'm just not sure if they're ready yet." So the midfield is not what we all think it is. The numbers came out not on the count from Monday night, and we're discussed about how I would really underperforming, even though you'd think just if you casually think of the suns, that midfield is the strength of their team. It's just not right now. Yeah. I was just going to add, like I think I said this on the weekend, they added Christian Betraca, which we thought was going to be the player to round out the midfield. And suddenly we're saying that maybe they're actually relying on Christian Betraca, because when he was up and firing the first few weeks, they looked totally different out to fit to what they do now. No, Randerson's been a little bit down on format. Rouse, of course, pretty underdone. Tuk-Millers, just a good honest battle. They just look a little bit like. That's a little harsh on Tuk-Millers. Well, he's more of a defensive, you know, he's not going to win them games if Fudio don't think. He's got the same threat compared to what he was three, four years ago. Yeah, and that's probably not his role anymore. But, yeah, I just mean their midfield doesn't look as exciting as when Christian Betraca is in there, which suddenly he may be a very important asset to that. Which is weird because you've got the Brownland Medalist rating, and arguably a better midfielder in Noa Anderson. Yeah. And yet. So that's a little odd. So that feels like a more of a structural playstyle thing. I don't know if they're. Maybe they're plays, it's just a little bit out of form, but that's concerning because also you're taking into account their first three weeks that played two bad teams and Jolong in a game that looks like an outlier in the same way that Giants Hallform looks like an outlier now. So you can almost put nothing into that. Then they have the buy. And since then they've just not been. They've been in the top tier of teams because they were okay against me, but I would have them what, six or seventh, not a joke along with Jolong. Who I continue to have, you know, little worries about, although it did exactly what you should do if you're a good team in West Coast on Sunday. Is Jolong the perfect example of a team where you're opinion of them actually sways in game? You're watching the first half and you're like, maybe Jolong isn't that good this year. Then you watch the second half. You're like, "No, it's Jolong, it's Chris Scott, it's Jeremy Cameron, it's very Smith." Yeah, they're too smart to let things go away. Like you would think they were going in the first half. A little bit. That's what we just get swayed easily by whatever's in front of us. We're like babies with keys being dangled. I think at the same time Kenny and Kenny has been a great addition to the Fox 40 commentary team and he was big on red time goals. And at the end of that second quarter between Jolong and West Coast, West Coast's youngest list in the competition. Jolong, a season's list, season players slam on five in the blink of an eye because red time is when the younger teams tend to be exposed. And I think Jolong just, as you mentioned, just did what they had to do during that stage of the game. Brisbane North. Did you guys take more out of that positive about North? Or a little worried about Brisbane giving that tight it was? Not, I see Brisbane's in it as back-to-back reigning premiers who have started slow the past two years. True. It's hard to have concerns about the line. It just feels like they're almost warming up as we go at the moment. And I think North are starting to show some pretty good signs. So they just had that one-out line performance against Melbourne, but really this was probably a problem. I've been promising performance from North to take it up to… the lines because they're gathering around for North Melbourne in recent times has not been pretty. Yeah, I thought it said more about North as well. I think they are genuinely and improved it this year. They're going to beat a lot of teams. They've got a stacked midfield, they've got a lot of forward weapons, their defence looks better as a result. Maybe that's just because they're playing better or maybe they're going to defend, they've clearly changed their system, but I think North's genuinely improved in the IRA. I only call them a contender for the top 10, but they're smoky, I think. They should at least finish 13th. Yes. I think they're the best of that bottom six teams that I've seen. Best division two? Yes, they're going to be division two premiers. Yes. Congratulations on the flag. And Melbourne, this was exactly what I kind of thought Melbourne was in that their highs are quite high with their game style and their lows are very low with the loss to Essendon. So you could sneak ahead of maybe them, maybe St. Kilda keeps dropping a few close games, maybe North gets to like 11th, tough to break into the 10, but you know, strained to things have happened. Well, this is the thing on it that's very early crow, but right now, North Melbourne is 7th, so they're sort of higher up in that top 10 and then or are up in the bottom half of it. And then Adelaide is just outside because he's looked a little bit shaky. The giants have had their injury concerns. Colingwood doesn't look great. And then St. Kilda. And then also in the top 10, currently, he's ported Adelaide who we don't have that much faith in. So there's a pathway for North playing. The latter means almost nothing. Yes. So keep that in mind. They separated by one win, North's percentage helped by playing some bad teams. I don't know. I would like to see he still do a run-home at Roundsys. I'm not. Oh God. I thought it was round 12. At least give me to the buys. And I don't mean the opening round buys that we all hate and that are apparently going away. Yes. We shall say. And apparently opening round is being tweaked. We're going to have around one type round one apparently. That was that was that was still long. Interesting language. I've thought any, what about that mid the midfield there from it's using F1 term? What about the midfield there of the Alpan going okay at the moment? Will he in struggling? Oh yeah, this really disappointing for me. I thought they'd be further ahead with the new rigs. Come on, lift James Vowels. Colin would do that for you. This is you being getting into F1 through your son. Turn it in your life. Yes. I've nothing done to this conversation. No totally fine. Sorry. This would be like if we started talking about wrestling. No, you could actually chip in with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he was doing. Yeah. From 2000 to 2003. Yeah. Just hearty. Well, he was he came in at that time, but then Randy did his shoulder and he had the the RNN news thing. Very good looking man. Randy was in good gimmick. WrestleMania main event during 2026. Who would have thought that's enough wrestling chat. GWS are fine now. Okay. Are they? I think they look pretty pretty solid against Richmond with all their guys back that most of their guys back which as you'd expect I think that was a lot of why they were dipping at the start. They'll be around that seventh's tenth range. Colin would still around that seventh tenth range. Yeah. The giants just to go back on the giant. They just feel like a wild card weekend team at the moment. And a dangerous one. Like they're going to be running into form at that time. You won't want to play them if you're seventh or eighth. Like you'd rather draw a different team. I would imagine. Is it just that year for them? Like Aaron Cadman and Kineleo get can cussed over the weekend. It just feels like it's to quote a great movie from last year. One battle after another from the giant. They just they can't take it to trigger. It feels like it just might be that year where we look back. We say they finished 13th, 14th. There's just too many injuries. That's the thing. They're not going to finish that low and they're going to make the finals because I don't think they're bad enough to slip out of the top 10. And it's if the wild card finals were in last year and the swans were playing in a wild card final in 10th they would have been dangerous. They wouldn't have been favored but they would have been dangerous and the giants believe be even more dangerous. I would say if they're in that ninth to tenth range. So they can hang around and still get a little bit of business done in September. Are they categorically better than North Melbourne to use a team from before? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. It's a little comfortable in the fact. North, you know, it's taken me a week to maybe go back on my division one division two things but North are getting closer to making some gray area there. I don't think Josh Carries, I think Josh Carries is going to ensure that this division one division two chat he's going to be reigning on this podcast. I'm sorry. Rest in the season. Well, when when it's I come up with a random idea in a tweet on Sunday night just watching. We put a fair bit of detail in to advise. Well, I wrote about it. I wrote about it afterwards but I'm saying that Josh Carries clearly read the tweet. Now that's the original content. Yeah. Not the. It's just you should have burner account or something. Well, I know one A full coach does follow me. I know that at least because it's public. That rust long. Long meal. Very nice. Good man. I think he followed a bunch of journals. It's nothing to do with me. But it's an interesting battle this year. You know, for the little add up but I think there are seven teams that can win it and we've got a top six. At the other end, Richmond is now the only winless team in the competition. I think West Coast came in as still pretty clear. Wooden Spoon favorites. They were. And I 120 point loss to Sydney a couple of weeks ago. Inhances that reputation. But the Eagles do have a win in Richmond. Doesn't they've two? West Coast. That's right. Big lead. Did we overestimate the Tigers heading into this season? Because last year was supposed to be rock bottom for Richmond and they surprised everyone by it. There was a five wins. I think it was five and West Coast had one. It looked like a big gap. It did. But we should Richmond really be going backwards from five years because we know that they are like West Coast starting a rebuild really from the bottom. They have targeted the draft really heavily in the last two seasons. I think I personally I didn't. I thought that they were the the West Coast and Richmond with the two clear worst teams in the comp and maybe West Coast. I wouldn't say an outlierish start to the year but maybe a couple of their results. A bit of a percentage boost to makes them looking a little bit better than what they are. But I was always worried about Richmond going into this year guys. I thought I think I said on the pre-season podcast. I think that they're senior players very much kind of lifted the made them look better than what they were. Perhaps last year in a sense the Toronto's the Hombas. But that was by far the first as well. They wanted them to keep the kids from just being the only thing going. Yes. But now that you try to slightly turn the page and empower and give more responsibility to the young players naturally they might be in my posture wins essentially which might help their long term but it won't do anything for them in the short term. So I was always a little bit lower on them but I also think like success isn't linear to the old adage. Just because they won was at five last year. It doesn't mean they're guaranteed to win six or seven or whatever it is. They could still be moving forward as a footy club even if the wins aren't impervious. percentage is a bigger better better teller of quality than pure win loss. Particularly when you're down the bottom because you can scrap a few wins. And they've basically had reverse starts to the season from last year when Richmond won a bunch of early games, a bunch relatively. And then get their way to five and then West Coast just doesn't win until they beat St. Cudor at home and then doesn't win again. So I think it's going to be the exact same thing where West Coast is banked these early wins will probably finish 16th or 17th depending on maybe how bad this isn't it is. But West Coast's percentage was what six points worse than Richmond last year despite the four win gap. They were roughly similar teams then they're roughly similar teams now. West Coast probably a little bit ahead based on on field performance but it's still bottom fourish teams and still rebuilding it doesn't matter too much. Well the Tigers in the next three weeks have North Melbourne then Melbourne in the traditional ands arcade game then they travel to the West to take on the Eagles. So big three weeks coming up for the Tigers. That's a chance. This is this is the three weeks that basically decides if they win the wooden spoon or not I would suggest. Well the fact that the percentage is eight percent worse than the next worst which is West Coast that's effectively an extra loss as well. So that puts them in a very grim position in terms of probably a bottom two lock already. Yeah and West Coast is basically just because of that one game the loss to the swans. They do play the kangaroos Melbourne and West Coast again they so those all those teams they have done and and that Lynch and anchorvers being out to the moment are why they're worse than they otherwise would present. Yeah okay. So Anderson from a demons perspective and well under the bombers for breaking that 17 game winning losing streak rather. That's right. What I think the story of the game was clearly escenning like it's not often the team breaks it go one goes on a 17 game losing streak and two breaks it. King he went very hard on Saturday night about how disappointed he was in the demons B.C. We kind of heard the comments before. I didn't think he'd go there but he sort of put it on the young players and how outtuffed they were in that second half they lost contested position quite dramatically in that game. Yeah after they beat big goal coach so convincingly six days earlier it was a bit of a jarring step backwards though against Descendant. It was and I think as you just said I think Essendant was very much the story they clearly something clicked for them at halftime at that Bulldogs game and playing a bit more of a defensive brand. Keepings off the opposition. Heed at the contest like we're just going to try to make this almost like what a calling we did against free man or like where are you going to turn this into more of a contest instead of letting the other team get out in space which Melbourne has been very successful at doing this year and then when they sort of just started winning the ball and getting momentum then they're like geez we're actually we can actually play and then you could see their confidence grow so I definitely thought Essendant was the story of that game and did think it was a little bit harsh from King he like calling out a lot of young players and they've clearly had a bit of an emotional lift but they were probably and possibly due for a bit of a low at some point because they've been on such a high and probably exceeded expectations. I didn't realise how many Melbourne fans I follow on Twitter until the basically the end of that third quarter where there was a run of what four or five Essendant goals two of them from very questionable umpiring decisions I would say there was certainly a holding the ball missed basically in the goal square so I think that Essendant got on top at that point and then we're just not going to be caught but so that sort of played into the result itself but I totally understand like yeah it's Melbourne are going to have some big highs and big lows because of the youth they've purposefully injected into the team it's what you get it's why they're not going to be a consistent threat it's why they could sneak in but losing like that is going to make it much harder. Anything of note else from the power rankings there Maxi? St. Kilda's - That's fine. - I think that's about it. We covered almost every bracket. - Well, we held him back long enough after talking about Collingwood and Free mantle. So it's now time for this segment. - And now on the box-footy podcast, another strong addition of Australia's Faberate segment, Fair or Fast? - Meaty addition of Fair or Fast? - B.C. Collingwood needs to break the bank for Ben King, Fair or Fast? - It's $2 million, $3 million worth of fairness there, Ben. They are-- - So what are you? - Name your price, kind of? - So contracts? - Yeah, so I wrote a piece in this on, in our talking points column that went out on Monday morning. So my take on this is, Collingwood is so clearly desperate for a K-forward, like I think more desperate than any other club in the competition. Irrespective of Ben contender, bottom of the ladder. I think they're a K-forward socks of the worst in the competition. So for mine, they don't want to get in a trade situation where they have to give up assets to get Ben King because they just, they need draft picks, they need to get youth coming in. So for me, the best thing that Collingwood could do is just absolutely break the bank, author, Ben King, a contract that Gold Coast literally would not be able to match because they just wouldn't have the funds. We know Collingwood's got salary cap space, the sons of the opposite, they're pretty tight. So whether it's front loading the contract to the extreme where it's, I don't know, upwards of $3 million, or just offering the metheist contract imaginable sort of two, upwards of two million. I just think this is a big opportunity for Collingwood because they are, Ben King's only 25 years old. He's still got seven, eight years left in him. Even if Collingwood is rebuilding, I'm not saying that he is going to be the missing piece, quite unquote, but I just think he will help them so much in the next five to 10 years that it's a bit of no brainer for mine. - You've been, what Collingwood's been looking for a K-forward since basically peak cloak, I would say, sort of 2010 and 2011-ish? - Yeah, yeah. So like, I've problem they've been, haphazardly fixing my check being the leading goalkeeper for what feels like a decade straight and stuff like that. They've done pretty well considering you've got a flag out of it, but yeah, it's certainly a list hole. I think they've got bigger problems across the list and the problem really is making sure that Ben King doesn't resign this season before it gets to free agency. 'Cause you still got to convince him to come to you. And even if the money's there, he may prefer for lifestyle reasons or whatever, or family reasons to stay on the goalcoes, particularly if goalcoes should be up the top for the next sort of four, five years during his peak. - Yeah, so they calling with mist out on Tom Leanch, mist out on Jeremy Cameron. So they've gone for these types over these and struck out, there's been a lot more of them letting go, Brody Mycheck. I actually thought it was not necessarily the right move because he's a good player, but I think that they need to start turning the page and getting a little bit younger. I think doubling down on the keeping the Mychecks of the world, I think would have been the wrong decision even if he may have helped him this year, would have made them a flag contender. So I just think Ben King is that perfect gap. Now clearly, as you just mentioned, Ben Maxluck, why would you want to leave goalcoes to go to a potential team on the downturn in Collingwood, but insane that, right? If they were to offer him, let's just say, 2.5 mil over seven years, that is a lot of money. And similar to what we saw with Tommy DeCourney, sometimes players do leave for cash. That's some of the how it works. - And also, if your Collingwood, the sell you're putting to him is, we're never down the bottom. Like, we had that one year and then Bucks left. And then we are intentionally staying at least competitive every year because we're going to spend the cash, we're going to be in a track of destination for free agents. So we're going to keep replenishing in the way that Jolong and Sydney sort of have. - And they have probably the best on-field access in terms of Nick DeCourts that they can sell to players to say, come play with Nick DeCourts for the rest of your career. - That's it, he stays. - And well, I was just going to say, like, part of the parcel of trying to lure talent is to ensure they keep DeCourts. So if you go and you pay over to Ben King, you're also kind of looking after your own back yard and the process by saying Nick, which we're putting good players around you, we're trying to remain competitive. - Like, to sink people to breaking the bank for NAS to keep other players and get them in. - Yeah, you have to. - Or can you've been stewing on that to help you for quite some time? You haven't put that quite eloquently, nicely done, thank you. - Well, the Collingwood, the longest drought active of teams not kicking 100 points belongs to Collingwood. - Yes. - And they desperately need for people. - And as you mentioned in the past, Craig McCray continues to very publicly call out his four and a half at the moment and the lack of connectivity there. So it is something that they need to address. Maxi, the fact unpy mics can't clearly distinguish what Zach Budd has said to Nick foot on Sunday night, only makes a messy, he said, he said situation, even messier, fair or fast. - Well, let's talk about microphone acoustics. - Yes. - So these are lapel mics they're wearing effectively? - Yes. - So that their calls can be picked up on the broadcast. The point of a lapel mic is to only pick up the sound from that source. - Broadcast, but also they use it for coaching and communication services. - Yeah, because they've got their anyies and stuff like that. They're talking to each other at quarter time and hearing from coaches and stuff. So maybe they just need different mics so they can hear better external sources. But yeah, it's pretty crap that that isn't the case and you can't just check it. And we have the second case in two weeks, not quite as dramatic of course. - Hold your, hold your, - Embarol. - No, no, I don't, but the second case involving a, he said, he said. Especially when the he said of what Zach Budd has said, he said, doesn't sound bad at all. And you hear sort of people who knows that butters or speak to people close to him, it would be very out of character for him to say something that is deemed worthy of reporting him for umpire abuse. - And keep it right, this guy, he can get angry. You know, even when he celebrates, he looks very angry and he's got 50k worth of fines in his career so he can do bad stuff. But yeah, there's a different line that you need to cross to get a report for that. - And I have our social team has also put together a bit of a video and put up the microphones of it, which we will release on Monday night on Fox for your socials. And there's a behind the goal shot where Budd is, he's literally right behind the umpire when he says it. Like within, - Oh. - We're close to within touching distance. So he's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out. And if the umpire Nick foot, who's a pretty well known umpire throughout the circles, the grand final umpire as well. Yeah, if he really stands his ground and I suppose it's pretty brave in this situation and says, I heard this, it could be going to another thing. - And it's also because what we think Budd has said was like why would you call that? How could you call that? That was paraphrasing. It's about how he interprets that. He interprets that as a shot of his integrity. So that makes it an arguable case as well. - It's hard to, it's inaudible to, because he says, you can hear on the broadcast, he says move it on. And then when you hear the ump mics up, Budd has said something that's inaudible, but very quickly foot blows the whistle and says 50 meters. And then when he's running back after the goals kicked by Owens, running back to the center square, he says I'm reporting that. - It's bizarre. It's the story to come out of Gather-Rand, at least this morning. - Yeah, it is. - And it's a bizarre story to be the story, isn't it? Like it's, as you said, it's he said, he said. So it's, yeah, it's just a strange story, but we'll find out what happens soon. - There was a lot of juice to come out of that Port Adelaide's and Kool-Aid. - Probably the juiciest game of Gather-Rand, I didn't expect to be Port Adelaide's and Kool-Aid, but the AFL got its wish and got the drama. - You're gonna keep porting that slot because Port Hawthorne last year was really good, yeah, it's working out well. - Yeah, good. - B.C., trading Jack Ginevin was a major trade mistake by Collingwood, fair or fast. - Real, sort of Collingwood flavor for us. - Collingwood or fast. - For myself. No, very fair. This is, this is Cain Corns' original take from a few weeks ago, and we know Cain likes to fire. A few out there, and I think this is one of his better ones to be brutally honest. I mean, at the time-- - Thank you for being brutally honest. - Yes, at the time I think, perhaps it made sense that we're getting lucky shouts, that just want to pre-muse shape. - Everything was culturally. - Yes, everything was happy, other than the fact that he clearly had some issues behind the scenes, none bigger than the morning of the grand, or the day before the grand final, going to the races. Clearly, I think this was probably more a Craig McCray thing. He was fed up with him and didn't want him at the footy club anymore. But I think the combination of, what I said before about how much they are desperate for more forward star power, especially now Bobby Hills out of the side, the combination of them lacking that, and lacking good young talent, like who are their good young players that are under 25? It's a very, very short list. - It's Nick Deik also, it's Boba Crueering. - Yes, and the sad reality is that Angus Anderson, who Maddie's debut on the weekend, maybe top five on that list now. - Oscar Steein, top five on that list. - Who also Maddie's debut. So I think for those combination of reasons, the how down the forward line is, and lack of young star power, I think clearly it's a major trade mistake, but on sides to 2020. - We got nothing for him too. I'm not trying to look at the actual trade details. - I think it was the second round pick. - Well, no, so it was, Hawthorne got Ginevin 39, they gave away 33. So, a colleague went upgrades, a pick by six slots, and then they traded features, that's what future seconds. And then upgraded a future fourth to a future third. So an upgrade from a fourth to a third, a worse future second. No, do they finish above Hawthorne last year, roughly the same, so that's a wash, and a six pick upgrade, almost nothing. - So McCreary's 25, and Daikos is 23. So I'm gonna rejuve the list of players. - We've got time. - Of players 24 and under at Collingwood. So Jack Buller, Jack Buller, Rowan Steele, both 24, Will Parker 23, Rief McKinnis 23. McKinnis is at his injury issues, but has potential. Ned Long 23, it's probably been a tick. Anderson Maturage, as you mentioned, debuted as a 22-year-old, Oscar Steen 22, Harvey Harrison 22, he's had injury troubles. Ed Allen's the one at 21. He's got all the tools, but it's just not clicking for him at the moment. Same, maybe to a lesser degree with Jacob Bryan, who's 21, Tojiass 21, This sort of really hasn't come on you. Yep. Harry Dimitia, that's still 20 years of age. The jury's starting to get out probably on that selection. - That's even played, has he? - No. - A couple of keys in Charlie West and Joel Cochran, who are both 20 years of age. - From the 24 draft, so we're getting it's harder judge. - Yeah, it's point-but. - Will Hayes also from the 24th draft. And their recent pick up Sam Swaddling time, Prindapul, Jai Saxena and Zach McCarthy. Saxena and McCarthy, their Cat B rookies. Swaddling's a bit of a ball magnet. They got it plucked out of the waffle and Prindapul, they pinched off the lines. Academy was taking a lot earlier than people for. But of that list, there's just not this big lot of talent there pushing to get other guys in the scene you're seeing out at the moment. - Well, that's also deliberate because you look at where those guys are being picked. It's a lot of guys in the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. - Yeah. - Like Ed Allen was in the top 20. Next one, but Ned Long was a rookie pick. So that doesn't count and Deikos. So they're just, they're not picking high enough because they were trading first round picks because they were trying to stay up. But this is the risky take. These are risky picks when you get past what half-way through the second round. Very high miss rate and they have not gonna good job vining talent in the draft. - And by extension, like there's two parts to that talking point. One is, yes, Colin Woods' young talent is looking quite grim at the moment, but also like Jack Gennibon's having a phenomenal season. And he is, we also wrote about this in talking points that him and Nick Watson, a year or two ago with this exciting, brash kind of small forwards, pesky kind of guys that you're like, "Yeah, they've got a bit of spunk about them." And now a couple of years later, they are turning into genuine stars that are turning games and you're seeing Gennibon playing more around the ball, like deciding and changing the course of games. Like he is really low-doll. - I didn't think Jack had that. - He'd probably been in the Australian team if it was made right now. - I also didn't realize how much of like a footy head he was, how like, smart he is, like watching those clips from his podcast with Tom Mitchell, it's like really impressive stuff. - Yeah. Apparently, Jack Clark's out of first crack at the moment. He wants J-spots supposedly. - Yeah, that's right. - Maxi, it's complex. - And for some unfair. But the reality is Lance Collard's AFL career is hanging by a thread, fair or fast. - No, I think that's fair. I think I sort of, I mentioned this when we discussed this a couple of weeks ago that if you're not a superstar player, you get treated more harshly in this situation. If you get a heavy, heavy sanction. And while I didn't get to follow as closely on Friday, the decision that's been made, I believe the sanction hearing is gonna be on Tuesday. So there'll be more cases put forward about why he was found guilty. - But the crux of the hearing was on Thursday, which it was four hours. - Yeah, so I followed that closely. It was the most, Fuddy Court felt like real court for once. Because it was genuine defense lawyer trying to poke holes in the witnesses' arguments, trying to infer with that actually saying that, hey, you guys talked about this, the two Frankston players suggesting that, oh, you guys talked about this quite a bit, didn't you? Your story is match up, don't they? Isn't that a little bit suspicious? Like not saying that, but inferring it. - Sure. - And trying to just throw as much doubt as they possibly could. And St. Kielder's case, which is sort of being made through the media now, where they're putting out like, why are we gonna appeal and all this stuff? It appears to be that Lenskull didn't get to make his case as well as he ought to have. I think he made his case fine. It was just two against one. He was very certain that he did not say it and signed a stat deck, which he's at risk of perjury, could theoretically be, go to jail for knowingly signing a false stat deck. I don't know when he's suggesting that that's what happened. But then you've got two guys who are very, very strong saying, no, I would not be here if I did not know, certainly in my head that that's exactly what I heard was the Fing F word. So it was a very complex case and they sort of had to believe the two because to otherwise believe collard would be to suggest that they're lying and why would they? Like, that's why it was such a tough case. So yeah, his career is in the balance definitely. I think the AFI wanted 10 weeks, not 10 matches for the summer season, it was a dispute about the difference. I assume because of the AFL-Bi system. So that'll be discussed on Tuesday. You can follow that on Foxfooty.com.au as well. So bad areas. BC, the site of Sean Darcy, barely being able to sing Frio's song was a really bad look, fair or fast. A bad look. Now that's fast, I think. You liked it. Well, he was injured, wasn't he? He was concussed. And it looks like he could barely. It looks like he was completely dazed and didn't know where he was. And I think that was a bit of a jarring sight, particularly the not just fans, but Jack Reevault and David King were quite strong enough. And Foxfooty and Ken Hingley was also strong on S&N about this. What are they concerned about that he shouldn't be singing a song? Welcome, Custard. He didn't, he didn't, considering the very, very large class action that he's coming at the moment. And the awareness around concussion and concussion prevention, optically, it wasn't great from an AFL perspective in the moment. Understand that. No, that is fair, but I will say, I think we're actually getting pretty good in this area, like I think. I'll improve that as well. Like, sure. It's arguably the most important sort of health and safety kind of focus in the AFL at the moment. And I think we've come a long way. We're doing a good job. It's changed the actual way the game has played. That's for sure. And now, like even the fact that we're talking about this and that those guys that you mentioned, Roy Wolt King, were shining a lot on it. I think it just goes to show that we are doing a pretty good job. So clearly, that isn't a great look, having Darcy there. But I think we are making a lot of grand in this area, which is the biggest win of all for mine. As Cath Lockton pointed out, immediately afterwards, he clearly was trying to do the team thing. As we talked about how significant that win was for Frio and the context of their season. That was a significant win on the road. And I think he wanted to be with his teammates to celebrate that. But it easier said, in hindsight, me winning the rooms, could someone have seen Sean and said, no, we probably should just take a seat or rest at the moment. - Sure, that would have been fair. - Well, there's the other thing that he's sort of under the pump a little bit at the moment, even when he was playing, like Mason Cox probably rod in his tail for a spot. So he's probably, Sean Dars, he's probably trying to do everything he can to ensure that he remains, you know, in favour and being a good team at it and stuff. So yeah, there's a lot of lies to it, but it's an issue in the game at the moment. - Last one, Max. - Well, my favourite. - The AFL should sell wild card round and sell it to WA, fair or fast. - What? (laughing) The weirdest part about this, I thought, was that there was like a denial, non-denial from Andrew Dillon when he was doing the media rounds in Sunday morning. So this comes out from Cobb and Middermus on ABC. Radio, I believe, on Thursday night. We reported that after that, the idea that they were having preliminary conversations about the idea of doing it, are these finals or not, right? - Well, they are. The AFL has said they are finals. - So you can't do that. Like, yes, there are restrictions around where finals can be played, most notably the Grand Final, but that at least has the core idea of, we're playing it at the biggest stadium in the country and most of the teams are here, which helps. So, and where the comp started. So like, there's all these reasons behind it. Doing it for that would purely be selling it off, like Super Net Bulls done that with its Grand Final. - It's been very controversial. So many reasons why it shouldn't happen. And I think that Dylan, the clip I heard of him talking about this was like, they've been conversations, but not from our end or not on our end. So like, well, they was W.A. talking to themselves. How do you think a conversation works, Andrew? If you were at least considering it, at least talking about it, I guess you got to do your diligence 'cause zero business. - Yeah. - And I don't think it was being widely discussed by X AFL players or X AFL administrators in the media. - No one had a thought of this. No one, nobody likes this. If they were trying to find a thing less liked than opening round, they've done that. So that's impressive. So they get to shoot that down, which is apparently. I'll believe it's dead where I can go to opening rounds funeral. - Okay, so you're not totally convinced that we're going to be seeing all 18 teams be playing in the first round next year yet. I would like to see the AFL do it, yes. - I think they need some easy wins. And I guess there's so much damage being done by, from the team perspective as well, those complaints are more valid than, or at least more, listen to than the fan complaints because the fan, the stuff with opening rounds has always been, well, we sell a lot of tickets, people are going to the game. And you're watching it on TV, so you must like it even though you say you had it. But if the teams are complaining about competitive balance and all that stuff, with all the ways we already compromised the fixture, there's no reason to have another one. - Is it, do you feel, that has been the biggest complaint amongst fans this season has been the imbalance fixture? Have you felt it be more imbalanced than you've ever seen it before? - Yeah, the buyers in particular, if you felt worse, just like it's like, stop starts sort of every week. Like I don't think there's an enormous advantage for the teams that played opening round who played teams who didn't. Like was Justin Longwell built up and his press conference after the Longfriaddle? I think it's probably a minor boost, but yeah, and that's best removed, but not a huge deal. But yeah, it's not about what's actually happened. It's just the vibe of the thing and it gets more and more negative every year. People didn't really love it at the start, mostly because of the name and of preposterous. And look, we need to go back to having round one be round one for AFL tables purpose. - Oh, because I still get confused when I go to AFL tables. Oh, here we go, round five results. Wait, no, that's last week. What are you doing, man? I understand his point mathematically, but come on. - He's going to, he's fighting the good fight there. - This is very, very stubborn, the administrator, which we like. - Future Australian football, Hall of Fame, although that might have taken the back seat, considering he's not embracing opening round, but he or she will wait and see what happens there. It's now time to open up Mailbag. - On the FoxWoodie podcast, it's time to open up the Mailbag. Have a question for the panel, tweet us every Monday morning at FoxFoodie. - Mailbag, thank you to everyone who has written in at FoxFoodie.com. on Twitter on Monday morning to reply, we look, we may be answer. Like this one, from my glorious sunshine Caleb Sarong, who's nearly his mother. If South Australia doesn't get gathered around next year, where would be the best place to host it, and is it fair for them to be asking for a long-term deal, given Tasmania's soon-to-be entry into the comp? I don't think you could do Tasmania until the new stadium is ready. Probably fair, because you've only got what? North Hobart plus Bell Rive and North Hobart would be a stretch for an AFL game. They play VFL there, but it's not great. I've been in Norwood over and can see, and that has been, and as Will Forkner has written for Foxfooty.com.au, that's kind of the gem in the gather round crown, because of all the things that happen around it. It's in the suburbs there, there's a festival goes on at the same time. That works, and the ground kind of works. I think it's got that intimate kind of setting. I've just, I have been north Hobart once before, because I've commentated a number of AFL W games at Norwood before. I've been inside North Hobart once. It's a little bit further away from the action. That's true. It's sort of a little bit more elevated up on the hill. I don't know. I think you need to wait for the full stadium there. That's the ground opening year is when you do it. Yeah. Then you're also point out, if it is in Tasmania, you've got to include Utah Stadium in there, but there's a decent drive and a gap between Hobart and Lonsesta. It's not right north south of us. It is nowhere near the same. You're not on the one city at that point. What about Perth? I mean, obviously they had the start of origin game, but I don't think it's going to be Melbourne. Time zone-wise. Does that work to appease everyone? That will be broadcast. That will be difficult to work around. You've probably got enough grounds. Mirror Resources Park. Yeah. Host one. But they've obviously put a lot of work into Bumbry. Yes. I don't think it's going to be the northern markets because they've got opening round. I don't think it's going to be Victoria. So it's pretty much SA or Perth, really, isn't it? Yeah. It's just at the time zones. It's something I hadn't even considered. But like South Australia is going to keep it. There's no real viable airs as right now. It's the actual thing that we're talking about is what the second additional game is going to be. Because when we have Tasmania in 2028, you can't have 23 game seasons. It just doesn't work mathematically. You have to have 22 or 24. Yeah. And they're not going backwards. So they're adding another round. So this is what I think opening round could live. They keep opening round. So you've got a heartbeat. Yes. Because you keep it until 2028. It's the additional round now. So you play 24 rounds. One of them can be gather around or you play 23 and you have two separately named rounds of opening round and gather round. Oh, yes. And you just most make it heavily northern states. Don't steal gather round per say, but do a virtual gather round in the northern states. I think that's the way to get to 24 games that makes the most sense. Are we sure that gather round is even up for, you know, to being put on the market or is it not just the AFL's way of trying to get a few more market? It's on the market because otherwise they would get low balled by Australia. So I think it's reasons it is. That's what I mean. I think it is very much there's long term. I don't think it's going anywhere. And that's probably why they did get it you're done during gather round because there was no viable alternative since our Australia did not have to give it absolute best off. Exactly. And the underestimated aspect, if you've never been before, the underrated impact of gather round is how the geographical location is essential for the country, good for Perth, good for the eastern states. We meet the middle of nothing. It makes a lot of sense and they do a great job obviously. Quite literally a gather in the spot. Yes. So they gather round. Adelaide. Yes. Oh, I get it there. Hang on. Just got that. And just speaking of gather round while we're here and before it goes away completely, Adrian Garbet asks, why have Brisbane been ignored and excluded from Adelaide oval and why have Carlton copped the crows again? I think I was only the second time. The Brisbane feel very very similar to the tone of Adrian's question. I would be mildly shocked. You could knock me over with a feather almost. Right. If Brisbane is snubbed from Adelaide oval next year. I don't know what's a bigger abomination that Brisbane's getting snubbed of the Carlton catch getting prompt on pictures. They are starting to feel like the SNN last year where they were clearly not playing to a level that should be on prime time and probably calling them and starting to enter the conversation as well. Hey, guess who's playing Thursday night footy this week? Yes, Carlton and Colin. I get into it. The Brisbane thing, the actual answer is about number of traveling fans and they feel like they're getting more Victorian fans and so they're putting all those like Melbourne always plays Adelaide oval despite not being as big a club in Brisbane. Yeah. Or successful. But that's the if there's a reason that's why but also it is done. Oh, get it. Much like most of the fixture. Speaking of the blues and the pies, they kick off round six back at the MCG, the Chris Bryan Cup. He's up for grabs here. Colin Woods. Colin Wood. Colin Wood. Colin Wood. Wean but jeep is it's probably going to be a pretty close game. Well, because Colin Wood can't possibly score enough to make it not a close game. Unless Carlton scores two to be interesting. So this is the first of our Friday night double headers for the next month or so. Yes, so we get to have the conversation of, hang on, why do we do these again? What's the point? The two games are Jolong and the dogs for the Tim Callum Cup and the Swans and the Giants in the Derby, the Battle of the Bridge, Jed Lamb Cup up for grabs. Who wins these two games there, Maxi? Jolong, Wood Oggs is the toughest tip of the round for me. Yes. I think it might be the only really tough tip of the round. And I think without knowing the dogs exact sort of injury report, I would have to lean Jolong down there. But they played this game Thursday. I Friday night last year. The dog should have won that, just did it. So if they're fortunes of change, maybe they sneak over the line in this one. Oh, I'll have to lean cats. Yeah, I think we'd probably both be going Sydney. I'd lean cats as well. But as you mentioned, Tim English may be back. Libber probably will be back. So they will be closer to their best team. But I just can never tip against Jolong at GMHB. So a unique experience in the cups for the last two rounds. So the Giants and Richmond, some they just go on, played for the Jacob Townsend Cup. Of course. On Saturday, Essin and Gold Coast play for the Jacob Townsend Cup. Oh, my word. So there's no specific bombers. There's no bombers, sons, only player who's played for two. They've all played for multiple clubs. So really it's like a division. It's another division that we've got here. The towner division. Yes. And who's going to finish on top? It's busy man, Jacob Townsend, heading out all the medals in the last seven days. It's probably not Essin and who will lose to Gold Coast, I feel, on Saturday afternoon. That they will. Could you get ugly? The funny thing is there's a bit of a few games last few weeks where everyone's like, oh, that'll be, oh, excuse me, they could win by a million. And then they don't. And then the other way, like everyone thought Sydney, West Coast was going to be kind of good. And then it was the blowout of all blowouts. So you know, I don't know. It would be weird for us to play more than one and a half good games in a row though. This could just be one of those games where Gold Coast has like a really a massive second goal, six, seven goal quarter. And then just put the game at a reach. And then that's just the full time. And it's just, it's just like 40 points from them. Yeah. Well, we know that the tuning and tuning in and certainly giving it all, all these on before Hawthorne plays, Port Adelaide will be Josh Carr barricading for the division two team. That's right. Before he turns his attention to Hawthorne, Hawthorne and Port Adelaide, Marvel, yes, Marvel for the Brent Renoff Cup. Port play, Port play Marvel, they're okay. They do. They do. They would beat themselves, yes. Yeah. But they will not be at Hawthorne. No, they will not. And Hawthorne will be, where would they be if they win this? They'll be really up there. Well, there's only four teams now with a four and one record. They would be in the top three, I would suggest if the Bulldogs may lose. Interesting. Interesting. Up there. Fergus Watts Cup, up for grabs here is Adelaide hosts St. Kilda in the Soul Saturday night game. St. Kilda getting the lovely task of playing Adelaide oval two weeks in a row, including Gather Round. Well, free-man all got it. Did that? Did that? And got the two wins. It's a result. Which it's doubly bad that St. Kilda gets that because they had, they were only one of the teams that got an interstate game, like a true away game in Gather Round playing Port. It's really rough fixturing in any case. They're not a big club, they don't deserve that. And they're going to lose, not because of it, but also due to it. Yeah, Adelaide really knows to win this, but it's so does St. Kilda, so it's quite a high stakes game. It is. North Melbourne and Richmond for the biggy new on Cup. Biggy. Yes. If North are the most 13th team that ever 13th did, they should be winning this. I think North through this pretty comfortably. Division two champions hoping to keep a strong record going Melbourne and Brisbane for the Tom Fulishen Cup. I was trying to figure out why this the Sunday afternoon game that seven wanted, but then I remember last year it was as well and Melbourne won it. The Gabba, which was weird. I did too. You would expect them to bounce back, but probably not enough to be Brisbane, who we know are very good on the road. Brisbane lines will win. And then free-manal and West Coast play in another derby. Hugh Dixon Cup up for Gradsworth. Hugh Dixon playing very good footy for Tasmania in the VFL at the moment along with Giant Men's E. Now, well, that count. When we have to have cups in 2028 and the devils come in, well, Giant Men's E. Canas are cup. Yes, he has to. Surely. There'll be a cup with the swans as well, I believe. Yes. A rugby fox. A rugby fox, of course. So, you know, some in-built cup? That's exciting. They will. Content. Also exciting is watching free-manal, surely play better this week and win. Yes, but I think this will be. When's the last time West Coast has won a derby? That's a great question. I would think this would be one of the closer emphasis on Er derby's we've said in a while The problem with the AFL tables listing of the Derby's it changes the home team it flips them around every time so it's hard to Read it at a glance around Early 2024 that's right. They upset the docker's in Derby 58. She's was that McWalter No, it's late Simpson or late Simpson or early Jared's gofield Early in the years. No, I do remember that there was one of three. I was very disappointing losses that ended up costing them quite a bit Later that that's right. That's right. Because then they flopped right at the end of the season That's right. It just feels like yesterday, but BC. I know it's a very very long season. Oh, yes So far there's it's a marathon not a sprint here and we'll do our best on the Fox 40 podcast Make sure you keep clicking back to Fox foody.com.com. Thanks for listening to the Fox foody podcast Like what you hear hit subscribe and rate us on your preferred podcast platform and for the best foody news And views catch Fox 40 on channel 504 keep clicking back to Fox 40 dot com dot are you