Essential Wisdom for Rising Attorneys

This is Brian Panich from the Legal Podcasts Get in the Game. Hope you like what you're hearing and remember, sharing is caring. Subscribe if you like it, share with others, but don't forget Get in the Game. All right, here we go. Are we ready? Today we are jumping into a really rich collection of insights shared by one of our listeners. It's wisdom drawn from conversations with several very accomplished trial lawyers. That's right. We've got input here from Brian Panich and Sean Flaherty, Keith Mittnik, Jason Leonard, John Eustel, and Joshua Koskov too. And they've shared quite a bit their experiences, lessons learned, you know, often the hard way, and some really practical tips. Especially for young lawyers, right? Those just starting out or aiming for success in the courtroom and just, well, the profession overall. Exactly. Our goal here is really to pull out the essential advice you need. It's about the realities, the actual practice of building a legal career. Yeah, facing the hurdles, finding your footing, this isn't just theory. Okay, let's get into it. Somebody that's going to law school, they're just getting out of law school. They want to represent planets, they want to get into the planet of personal and dream business. Sure. What advice do you have for them? The first thing I think that's crucial and is here. We put it back here, but some of our best lawyers have started working with us while they're in law school. So, you know, I started here, like I said, when I was in law school, I can go down the list, but I probably, we have 42 lawyers. I would say a quarter of them, maybe more, worked here when they were in law school. And the reason that's so important is there's a lot that's learned from being around something for a long period of time and hearing it and knowing it innately in you and learning the language and learning how to speak to clients and learning how to deal with people. And that to me is stuff that although you're getting paid not as much as you'd want to be at that point in time, the fact that you're around it and learning it is invaluable for practice later. So, the first big theme, I think, that really comes through is this idea of starting early, getting your feet wet as soon as possible. Absolutely. Sean Flarety, for instance, he talked about how some of their best lawyers actually started working at the firm while they were still in law school. And the value there wasn't just, like, ticking a box. It was about immersion. Precisely. It's this idea that just being around the practice day in, day out, you pick things up, you learn the language, how to deal with people, you get this sort of innate understanding. I think of it as years. So, I think the first like five or six years, I felt like I really was just threading water. And that's when I got up, this case I tried to withdraw. We got a wonderful, huge verdict at the time. Still would be a big verdict, the $7 million for this truck driver, a 50 year old guy who didn't have much of an earning capacity. And as I don't know if this is your experience, but it really doesn't take the best cure for an insecure lawyer is a big verdict. It just makes you feel like you can do it. And that kind of confidence, I think that was sort of the turning point for me. It's almost like learning biosmosis over time, something you just can't replicate from books alone. That makes sense. That practical feel, but they're also realistic about the timeline, aren't they? It's not instant expertise. Oh, definitely not. Joshua Kaskov mentioned it could take, you know, maybe five, maybe even six years before you truly feel like you're not just threading water, before you feel like you've got your head above water. Okay, so the takeaway for someone listening who's maybe in law school now or just starting out. It's patience, partly. Don't expect to be an expert right away, but also be proactive. Seek out those chances to learn by doing even if it means balancing school and work like Sean Flarety suggested. Right. Show that capability early, commit to the long game. Now, once you're in it, whether you started early or not, another thing comes through loud and clear, mental toughness, being a trial lawyer, well, it takes grit. Oh, absolutely. That was a constant refrain. You cannot be afraid to lose period. One lawyer, I think, put it very bluntly. If losing one case just crushes you, you're probably in the wrong field. Everyone's a trial lawyer up until about a week out. And I think that's what separates trial lawyers from other lawyers is that last week, where the anxiety and the apprehensions and the fear of, am I going to be allowed? Am I going to be able to ride this bike again? And once you get in, you realize that's just going to happen. And after 25 years, that still happens. That, you know, how am I going to do this? And I think for them is just to face that fear. And once you overcome it a few times, you're still going to have them. It's just you're going to know that you can overcome them. Yeah. You need thick skin. You take the hit, you learn from it and you get back up the next day, ready to go again. It's just, well, part of the territory. And what about trial anxiety? That seems like a big one, even for veterans. It is. Jason Leonard talked about that fear kicking in, you know, the week before trial, that feeling of, can I still do this? Can I ride this bike again? But facing that fear is sort of the job description, isn't it? It really is. And the good news, he suggested, is that once you push through it a few times, you learn you can survive it. The anxiety might never vanish completely, but you know you can manage it. I'm a young lawyer. I want to, I'm trying my first case. What, how do I get prepared? What do I read? What do I need to do? Let me tell you the first thing I do. I'm going to give you a little, a little pet talk to the younger lawyers. Remember this. It's not about being pretty. And I don't mean whether you're handsome or a pretty lady. I'm talking about it's not about perfection in the courtroom. And you want to be perfect. When you're young, it's not going to be perfect. It's just not. This is a job that takes repetitive overroading experience and instincts come from making bad decisions and good and it starts becoming more automatic. You're not going to have that early. Here's the good news. You don't need it. You know what it's about? It's about being prepared, having thought through and having a good game plan and picking the right words and phrases, asking winning questions of the jury. I mean, you know what else matters? There's the being prepared and one more thing. Believing. That's what I was going to say. Your integrity. One thing is if you don't believe the jury's never going to believe it. Absolutely. So you walk in, young, and you got that passion. It's going to go a long ways towards getting in there. You walk in, young, but you walk in believing, passionate, and have some integrity. And you know what? All the little sloppiness is charming because they know you care. They know you believe and you came with a good game plan. And interestingly, there's this idea that the losses themselves can be powerful teachers. Very powerful. Keith Mittnik spoke about this. How some of the best learning, the real creativity comes not just from the wins, but from digging into the losses. Why did it happen? How do we avoid that again? Don't just eat the bruises as they say, but actually learn from them. Precisely. Learn, adapt, improve. Okay. So you're tough. You're ready to learn from losses. What about that very first trial? The advice there was maybe a bit surprising. It's not about being perfect. Right. Keith Mittnik really hit this point hard. Being pretty or flawless in court, especially when you're starting out, it's not necessary. It's not even expected. Because those trial instincts, they come from experience, right? Years of it. Exactly. Repetition, learning from good moves and bad ones. You won't have that right away. And that's okay. So what does matter then for that first timer? Preparation. Yeah. That's non-negotiable. Have a solid plan. Choose your words deliberately. Frame the case effectively. Do the groundwork. And maybe the biggest piece. Believe. Passion. You have to genuinely, deeply believe in your case and your client. If you don't feel it, how can you expect the jury to? That makes sense. But how does that translate for a young lawyer who might feel a bit shaky? Well, Keith Mittnik had a great take on this. He suggested that if you walk in prepared and you truly believe and you show that passion, any little sloppiness actually becomes sort of charming. Interesting. Because the jury sees you care. Yeah. They see you've done the work, you have a plan, and you're invested. That conviction that the life combined with solid prep is the key combination, more than slickness. Okay. That's powerful. So shifting from the courtroom itself to like building your career foundation. Yeah. There were some very practical advice there too. There was Sean Flarety, for example, really push networking constantly. Be social, get out, meet people, talk to people, and don't be shy about what you do. No, you need to let people know you're a trial lawyer. Use the phrase, a scream from the mountain top. You never know where a case or a connection might come from. Could even be opposing counsel someday. Treat everyone well and treat every client. Like they're your only client. That was another core rule from Sean Flarety. That dedication, striving for the best result for everyone, that's how you build trust and reputation. Makes sense. And what about technology? It seems unavoidable now. Absolutely essential. Jason Leonard observed that sometimes lawyers resist tech because they feel unsure about their basic trial skills. But once those skills solidify, they actively seek out tech because, well, it makes presenting a case easier and more impactful. It's a tool you need now. Got it. So, network, be known, dedicate yourself to clients, and embrace the tech. That's a good summary. Now, another thread running through all this was the importance of learning from others, mentorship and collaboration. Huge the important. Having good teachers early on, that was highlighted as a massive advantage. And Keith Mittnik pointed out, not everyone gets that, so there's a sort of duty to pay it forward, right? To share that knowledge. Yeah, absolutely. And senior lawyers can play such a crucial role. Jason Leonard described them almost like a psychic security blanket in court for younger lawyers, just knowing they're there for guidance. That feeling of backup. And this connects to the bigger picture of collaboration, especially for plaintiff lawyers. Definitely. John Yustle talked about this, particularly in tough cases against, you know, big, well-funded opponents like tobacco companies or large corporations. How do they win by sharing? Sharing documents, ideas, strategies, everything, working together. Because working in silos only helps the other side hide things. Exactly. When lawyers pool their knowledge across different cases, they can piece together the full picture, connect the dots, and expose the truth. It's about collective strength. That's a really compelling model. Okay, we also need to talk about just plain hard work. Seems like a given, but they really emphasized it. Oh, yeah. Non-negotiable. John Flairdy's rule. Work harder than you think you need to, always. And that ability to handle a heavy load, like, juggling school and work early on, it demonstrates something important. It demonstrates capacity. It shows you can handle the demands. And sometimes the toughest cases, the ones that really push you, are the most formative. Right. A crucible, as John used to put it. He talked about his first trial, a really complex GM fire case that took years. That kind of experience, while incredibly difficult, it forges your skills, your persistence. And learning can happen in unexpected ways too. I found John Ustall's experience serving on a jury, fascinating. Me too. Realizing even as a lawyer, how hard it was to track the evidence without knowing why it mattered from the very beginning. It changed his whole approach to opening statements, giving the jury that context up front so they understand the significance of what they're about to hear. Such a practical insight gained from a totally different perspective. Yeah. Okay, one last area to touch on. Legacy. For some lawyers, there's a family history in the profession. Right. Joshua Koskov talked about that pressure. Following a well-known footsteps, people making comparisons. You know, he's not like his dad, that kind of thing. That sounds like it could be a heavy way. It certainly can be. But he also framed it as potentially positive. Those high expectations can actually be a standard to strive for, a motivator. So it's about acknowledging the past, but ultimately. Filling your own shoes, finding your own way, your own voice, making your own contribution. Okay. Wow. We've covered a ton here. Let's try to recap the core threads. Okay. So starting early, that hands-on learning, building serious mental toughness, learning from losses, prioritizing preparation and belief, especially early on, over trying to be perfect. Yes. Then the practical stuff. Networking, making yourself known, dedicating yourself to clients, embracing technology. The huge value of mentors and collaborations, sharing knowledge, not working in isolation. And underlying it all. Your hard work, taking on challenges and learning from every experience, even unexpected ones like jury duty. Plus navigating legacy, if that's part of your story. What really comes through is that success is an instant. It's built. It takes resilience, effort, learning constantly from wins and losses, and relying on the wisdom and support of others. Yeah. It feels like it's about more than just legal tactics. It's about building character, serving clients with real dedication. And finding your authentic self within a very demanding field. Absolutely. Which leads to a final thought, and maybe something for you, the listener, to consider. In a world that's always changing, with new tech, new challenges. How will these core, timeless principles, preparation, beliefs, that mental, grit, collaboration, that essential human connection? How will they continue to be the foundation for the next generation of truly successful lawyers? Something to think about as you navigate your own path. 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