Erin & Sara Foster

welcome welcome welcome to armchair expert experts on expert i'm dan shepherd i'm joined by lily padman hello today we have monica's parasocial best friends that's right erin and sarah foster yes uh the foster sisters correct erin of course is the creator of nobody wants this which is this is nobody wants this week right so we had we hope you want it yes and you do we have the cast on monday and so today we have our experts on erin and sarah yes and so sarah is also a producer on the show they also have um an incredible clothing line called favorite daughter favorite daughter they also have a podcast called the world's first podcast they're as entertaining as two siblings could possibly get obviously nobody wants this out now on netflix i'm sure you've already seen it if not get with the program great third season please enjoy erin and sarah foster this episode is presented by youtube premium youtube was already great but premium supercharges it if you like youtube you'll love premium try youtube premium for two months free at youtube.com slash premium trial eligibility varies terms apply cancel anytime now let's get into today's episode we get support from ag1 fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter you're settling in bracing for the cold your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns you don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that too that's where your ag1 routine earns its spot it's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time it's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start one scoop cold water every morning before anything else ag1 next gen has 75 plus ingredients vitamins minerals pre and probiotics superfoods backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials key nutrient levels improved with three months of use that's the part people miss it's not a one-day fix it's what happens when you stay consistent it's an easy everyday thing i've added it to my morning routine and i'm gonna tell you i actually love the taste of it it's like pavlovian i drink it and i know i'm gonna get that little vitamin buzz well that's also the thing when you do it first thing in the morning you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like i already did something good for myself yes go to drink ag1.com slash dax and for a limited time get a free immunity bundle including a bottle of vitamin of omega-3 fish oil and a bottle of vitamin d3 k2 with your first subscription order of ag1 next gen or ag1 pro that's drink ag1.com slash dax and after checkout be sure to let them know that armchair experts sent you he's an armchair expert he's an armchair expert he's an armchair expert he's an armchair expert yeah yeah yeah it's all clips on this show none of it's flattering looks really good that's very nice are we live or abr but we will cut oh we don't what does abr mean always be recording you guys don't do video right they do or you do do video i listen to you we do but just nobody watches them i do you're watching them okay yeah let's just start there because monica has become recently a very obsessed with you she's having a parasocial relationship with you too and do you already know that i know but she and i have taken it into irl oh my goodness but i just met sarah for the first time yesterday so we're what do you think pretty stunning right yeah of course they're both more than you expected prettier yeah well what's your first you are taller i mean i knew you were tall i heard about that you heard about your rumor that your height precedes you that's right but tall people really in person they pop get even taller you're taller than i expected as well well but i'm five feet tall i have a tall presence but i'm actually five six and a half so i'm actually not really rocking that much tight that must be above average though it is it's above average nationally average nationally is like five three or five four right yeah so you're you're quite a bit above and how tall are you sarah i don't know erin has two lights and i have one like i just so i need your audience to know your viewers to know yeah she has two lights we're gonna let them know we are letting them know but when we go into the di we're going to increase the exposure on you okay this whole thing gets run through well and your loyalties to me let's be clear me well no no your history it's tricky one of you employs my wife so that's certainly okay wow things are heating up quick this is gonna get okay it's gonna get nasty it's gonna get sophia's choice you guys should get into your history it's a house well first i want to hear more about okay so when did you start listening to the world's first podcast and did you tell them we almost did the exact same title we were going to be the world's last the one millionth podcast was going to be the name of the podcast we were going to be the one millionth podcast was going to be the name of our because we felt very early but we already felt very late you already felt late at that point oh yes in 2018 you already had chris hardwick you already had marin you already had rogan we felt late that's when you started i literally was like what's a podcast and why is dac shepherd doing a podcast i thought you were sort of the first podcast we were going to do the one million because i was embarrassed about being so late yeah and i think you had a similar embarrassment right so it's like you try to make the joke first exactly we wanted to do something in the vein of nobody wants this yeah nobody asked for nobody asked for this and it already existed and so this was like our fifth choice i kind of hate the name of our podcast i love it you do you don't like it it just doesn't feel like us i agree yeah i kind of hate it could we change it should we launch a rebrand now a real time we asked our audience about a rebrand because we thought we would switch it to fatigue sisters podcast because we're always tired and people didn't want it people don't like change okay don't want to throw that money when did you what was your first episode what was the first episode the context why well obviously i knew about aaron and sarah yeah well that's not obvious and also from the show so i knew about you guys oh right of course of course because of that okay no but also from the zeitgeist but i don't think i really knew about the podcast and i was just listening to one of my own pop culture podcasts and i think i was just like served it oh my goodness it just appeared in my ears that's good for our marketing we need to pay for that yeah i know we need to pay for that no and i just said to somebody we got to start paying for some views and say because you guys we need to like get shady or something guys are you not aware sarah's always calling our people to be like guys get the bots do the things like buy stuff like do it i just heard i won't say the name okay but it is a very popular podcast way more popular than ours i don't know if it's more popular than yours maybe not we're gonna need the name in a minute is it you didn't comment but go ahead we'll cut that but well no she didn't comment by the way okay okay okay monica offers to cut things really quickly yeah i did you're the me you're the me too quick but she's probably the reason we still have a show nine years later i am the one that does the cutting so i get to i would have been run out of town like 350 times thank god thank god you always yell at me when i do sarah always starts with someone goes oh by the way by the way we'll cut anything you don't like and i was like shut up sarah like let her like say something she regrets and then we get big view aaron's always looking for like the national inquirer i think it puts i might say something that i would regret and so it makes at least i think people a little bit more aware of what they're saying that's interesting interesting i have the opposite point of view which is like if i tell you like anything you regret tomorrow talking about it's gone now you're not talking with this self-governing if you actually trust me or you trust monica because she said it i hope that then you're not governed and then you drive home and the opposite happens which is like oh i talked about that thing i normally want to talk to her but i think that went kind of well and i think people will receive it well that's certainly more often the case for us but also i never offer it unless someone's starting to like we don't normally say it unless someone's like uh like you can tell they're thinking about maybe saying something like just say it's fine we'll cut anything right but go back to what you heard just i heard somebody said to me they go you know that people only listen to an average of four minutes of each of her episodes okay and i was like so it's all clips and these clip farms and exactly so there's this whole world which i've just farms recently learned about which i didn't know we're not over here like how can we which maybe we all should be system yeah where it's like these agencies which i'm looking to employ that will that call me yeah goose it who's the numbers make it look like millions of people are posting about your show when no one gives a shit about your show so i too am fascinated with it swear to god we have never done anything remotely like it i've been so tempted we have a threshold there's a point where it would cost us a lot of money to not do that right your clips go deep like these clips video clips really create a lot of conversation from the show on this one yeah that's lovely but i of course in moments of panic are like i don't know is there a farm and i'm shady right yeah but ultimately i've never done anything and i do think it's gonna come out so without saying which podcast i can tell you dr mike do you guys know dr mike no he's incredible he's one of like the top 10 youtubers he's the most gorgeous doctor you've ever seen he's in new york city he won sexiest doctor a bunch of times he's one of the most who gives out sexiest doctor awards it was one of those pop like pop sugary type very reputable source Anyways, he was telling me a certain show who supposedly has millions of things. He said, I want you to look at what the average comment ratio is for a show with a million downloads. And now I want you to look at this person's comment section. There's not one comment on any of these episodes that supposedly have millions of downloads. And I went, oh, that's fascinating. And I'm so glad I sat it all out because I do think at some point there'll be some expose. I think some of them are a little suspicious. That's what we'll hire. We'll hire a journalist to look into this. That's where we'll pay for it. Yeah. Well, we need a little more integrity around all of it, right? That's how I'm feeling about like all these facelifts. I'm like, it's not fair. Just tell us because then you make all of us who haven't done it feel like crap. Okay, but Sarah. Just tell us. Do you think this is because, not to get deep so quickly. Okay. But you're so gorgeous and you have been known for being so gorgeous your whole life that you're like, go on. Tell me more. Keep going. But really, and I understand this. Specifically, are they saying you're gorgeous or not? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What? Is it the eyes? Is it? No, let me guess. It's my eyes? No, but that you are a natural beauty and people are paying and are able to recreate some. And if I were you, I might be like, that is unfair. If you have these natural things and other people can pay to just get them all of a sudden. You're like, I was born with it. Exactly. And like, you're born with other good things. So you have your good things and I have my good things. And let's just like stay in our lane. Is that possible? I've never seen Monica this hard hitting. I think it's the parasocial relationship. She's really going hard. Guys, I don't know. I mean, listen, I think aging is an interesting thing. Yeah, you do kind of get to a point where you're looking at people who are older than you that are starting to look younger than you. You reach that point and you're like, the fuck? Like, in order to like stay on this playing field, do I need to go now like get a facelift? I'm 45. The clip farms. It's all the same thing. It's like, what's going on? Everyone's cheating the system. Everyone's, which, by the way, I mean, people are looking good. Of course. But people are not aging, you guys. Yeah. It is weird. I think they're aging weird. Well, some, some, some. Well, I think a more fascinating current thing is how many men are now doing it. And how differently we feel about men's faces changing than we do about women's faces changing. It's not okay. Men should not be cutting their eyelids. I don't like it. Let me be clear. Men, if you cut your eye, you didn't cut your eyelids, right? No, I haven't yet. Okay, great. I might, though. Do not cut your eyelids. That would be deep. Men who cut their eyelids. I just think men looking a little weathered is handsome. And women looking a little weathered is less socially acceptable. Yes. I'll co-sign on that observation. That's definitely true. Yeah. Okay, back to my parasocial relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry. So I got served. And you liked what you saw. I liked what I heard. I was like, oh, these girls are fun. They're funny. And then something turned into a new gear. And it was so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. I can't believe I'm saying it. Half of our fact checks are about you guys. Fact checks? This show has a fact check every episode, which is basically us doing what you guys do on your show. We just shoot the shit. And half of what Monica talks about is updates about you two that she's learned from the podcast the night before. And I'm like, this is lovely, and I love them. But at some point, our show has to be about our show. Right. Can't always be about our show. Monica, the first time you mentioned us. I wish our numbers were, like, getting boosted from this. Maybe they are. I would hope that they would. Sometimes I do have that power. You do have a lot of power because the first time you mentioned us, Montana. Who runs our production company. Who has been with us forever. She started as an assistant. Was like, oh. She sent a group chat. She was like, you guys. Monica just mentioned you guys. The all-powerful Monica. Yeah. And it was like, it was a very big deal. Big deal in the house. Yeah. It was a big deal. So we appreciate you. And now you and our friends. Did the show, I was going to ask this much later, but did the wild success of Nobody Wants Us up your numbers at all? Yeah. Not really. I mean, I think maybe a little bit. But not maybe, like, what you would think it would do. I don't know. I don't fully pay attention to the numbers as much as this one does. But it definitely changed our favorite daughter sales. Oh, yeah. It did. Oh, wonderful. Which was an unexpected consequence. It was great. I mean, it changed everything. Yeah. If you had to pick, I mean, I feel like I know the answer. But if you had to pick which one was a massive success, it would be favorite daughter, no? Which company? Yeah. Between the podcast and the clothing line. Favorite daughter is a massive. The podcast is not really about size. The podcast is not that successful. No. Well, I was just going to say the podcast is sort of. Like, it's just not. I don't know. But relative to what? I mean, again, there's 10 million. There's like, there's 9,900,000 podcasts that would fucking cut off a toe to have your numbers. Guaranteed. But I think the point is that for us, favorite daughter is a business. That is a business for us that we started as a business. The numbers are very important. The growth is very important. We have a financial partner. It is absolutely profit focused. The podcast for us is a way for us to connect to people who will watch the show, who will buy the clothes. But really just, it's sort of like this quiet undercurrent underneath the businesses that we're working on. And it's not something we really look at as a big stream of income or a business that's supposed to be huge. Yeah, I think it's like community building around the other brands you already have. Exactly. But it works because then people like you. Yeah. And so then they want to support you. Yeah. And it's the only place to know us because Aaron's basically not on social media. I'm not doing lives or we're not on YouTube. We post when we want to post. We don't when we don't. It's a lot of like, buy this favorite daughter. But we're not really speaking to anybody in any channel of our lives except for the podcast. I want more solos. I want them to all be solos. I know. Everyone says that. Oh, okay. Solos is just when it's them. Yeah, that's what I listened to today. I listened to a couple solos. Yeah, that's the part that's like very interesting. People don't even want celebrities. It's interesting. Well, because Sarah's really weird with them. Sarah's very weird. She's too nice. I have celebrities. She's too nice. She doesn't want. She sits there and praises them the whole time. She never wants to like. I just kiss their ass the whole time. I literally kiss their ass. I'm like their number one fan. It's crazy. Even if I can't even name one thing they've ever been in. The snooziest interview you've ever heard. I'm literally, what's your favorite? We had Kris Jenner on. This is someone we've known since we were children. Yeah. Okay. And I'm like, Aaron, just like be cool. And we know her very well. Yeah. I was trembling. I was like, Kris, like, tell us. So amazing. What's your favorite color? Oh, no. You guys. And then Aaron goes, all right. So when you guys are flying private, who pays? Okay. There you go. And I go, Aaron. And I literally. Aaron. You're being rude. How dare you put her on the spot like that? Like, I was. Sarah, this could be a clip. Let her answer. I was sweating like you cannot. Yeah. When you guys meet people, who do they think is the older sister? Sometimes they do think that I'm the older sister. But it's also like rude to be like, you're older, right? Like, I think people don't really do that. Okay. I don't know. But yeah. I mean, look, you're 18. Yeah. 17 or 18 months difference. Yeah. So who gives a fuck? It's not like it's offensive one way or another. I wear a lot of crop tops. I keep it youthful. She looks more immature. So I think people assume that I'm like the older, wiser sister. Yeah. I was going to say, you have more of a serious vibe that could read as older. I'll do like a side pony in crop tops, you know? But I was delighted to learn today because I think it could explain some similarities between you and I. You're a middle child. I am a middle child. I'm a middle child. Out of three? Mm-hmm. Boys or girls? Older brother, younger sister. But a pretty big gap between both. You're 18 months and then what's. Jordan is three years younger than me, so five years younger than Sarah. Okay. Still pretty close. Yeah. Yeah. I'm very, very middle child. I take on the task of wanting slash forcing everyone to get along or be together. The family sheriff. Sarah screamed at me once and said, no one elected you sheriff, so get the fuck off your soapbox. Yeah. Okay. Sheriff is a word that Dax likes to throw around a lot as well. For both of us. Yeah. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a lot of sheriff vibes here. Too many sheriffs in the whole ecosystem over here. But okay, I'm going to get deep with you now. Okay. I think that that dynamic, which is clear and understandable, I feel like sometimes you're looking for Sarah to let you down. Monica? Sorry. And I also want to say. Monica, should we get into a. I've never seen her hit this hard. And also Sarah, you do fly first class, okay? Thank you. I'm just going to even out the playing field here. Thank you. But I mean it for your sake. I think you have an expectation that maybe she can't fill. And instead of just being like, that's just her. She's not going to do that. It like hurts you. And then I try to like force her to do the thing that I wanted her to do and it doesn't work. And then she might resent you for that. Where have you been all of our lives? I'm here, right here. Same treatment to yourself is what my guess would be. Yeah. You're pretty brutal on yourself. Yes. You can kind of only. You can't extend to other people as much as you're extending yourself in some way. So it's like it might be an internal. Of course. Yeah, yeah. But interestingly, I had an experience, I don't know, a few months ago in Nashville where I tried to do it differently with Sarah. We had a work trip. We were opening our store in Nashville and Simon was going to be there. We were bringing our daughter. Sarah was bringing her daughter. We had this like work thing on. I don't know what it was like a Thursday. And I really wanted us to turn it into a weekend family trip where we go and we stay at a hotel on the weekends. Spend the time there. Bring all the kids, the cousins. Our dad was going to be there with his son who's the same age as like our kids. So we were like going to turn it into a cute thing. And I already was ready for Sarah to go, I'm not doing that. I just want to go back home. I'm not doing it. Because sometimes it's like Sarah controls the cards because she is the no. Right. And then it like stops everything. She has a veto. She has the veto. And before I had a child, which is still kind of recent, two years, she had all the control because she had the kids. Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I had like no kids. nothing to bring to the table. So then I really wanted to like, like hold tightly but I called Sarah I said I found this really cute hotel and I was like felt myself like getting all like stressed about her saying no and I really want to do this thing I already there's cottages and I look them up and I think that you're going to like them I'm holding just two rooms and she was like I don't know Erin I don't know if I want to do that like I don't know the place doesn't look that good like I started doing her thing and Simon had a little bit warned me of like just let her do what she's going to do we can still have a nice time so I said okay Sarah you know what no pressure you have the link whatever you want to do that's what you're going to do and I went ahead and I booked it for ourselves the other family members wanted to do it I was sad thinking about her daughter Josie not being able to be part of it which is a big part of my wanting to control it but I just was like I'm letting it go and guess what this bitch did she booked that place she got the hotel she stayed all weekend she showed up well I didn't get the cottage that was very expensive I stayed in the main hotel which actually ended up being great I was like I was like but I'm going to have my space sure I'm going to do it the way you want I'm going to do it the way that I want to do it I had a little conversation with my husband where he was like do you see how when you didn't put the pressure on she wanted to do it because she didn't feel that the tight grip being controlled and ready to disappoint me yeah it's too stressful yeah that's a really good observation that you have probably from listening to the podcast becoming closer with Erin and just understanding humans and sibling dynamics and women and whatever I do think this has been a constant theme for us that we have dealt with which is it's normal when you're as close with each other as her and I are of course for Erin she wants me to handle every situation the exact way that she would right this is human nature the way with our parents or our other sister or a work situation of course she's like you need to handle it the way I'm going to handle it I'm like bitch we're two different people we grew up in the same house but we had totally different childhoods right right I have my own wounds you have your own wounds I have my own attachment style you have your own attachment style we're different like yeah and now that we've accepted that I would say our relationship is in a much better place yeah she likes to shit on it more like we did a podcast recently and she was like we have a very toxic relationship are you okay well Sarah has a much higher threshold for like toxic energy sure that's also probably a difference well I can just move on quickly I have a lot of I don't want to say patience is not the word because I don't have a lot of patience but I do have grace for people everyone in my life operates in a way that I never would you know okay now is where I come in this would explain your tolerance for addicts well one addict only one did I date more than one no just the one when we met I was dating an addict yeah well first of all I want to applaud both of you because you guys just took that observation so well because we like you don't know that right like yeah I think that's what gets tricky you guys are best friends but because other people are in parasocial relationships with us as well I will sometimes read comments that I'm like oh that's none of your business to say about right I can get a little defensive if you think you understand something about our dynamic that we don't I don't always take that well I thought that was really impressive the way you guys were like in our growth era to like Aaron and I are not who we were even five years ago we have done the hard work I started therapy not until I was 40 Wow so like I was late to the parallel a divorce is that what what drove you to know it was before no it was during kovat and Aaron looked at me and I think I had had like some like outburst or something and she looked at me we're in Lake Tahoe and I was like it's time yeah I'm begging I'll drive you she goes it's really time and I was like oh my god Sarah what are your outbursts look like will you have a property I'm rage you'll scream and swear I mean I'm a rage Aaron's not at it okay okay I want to start with four and five mom and dad get divorced yeah you really did your homework yeah that's my job yeah yeah yeah yeah he gets paid a lot of money 23rd February 5th he won this is a great memory so four and five mom and dad get divorced where were you living when the divorce happened and do you have a lot of memories of that period I don't remember what I did yesterday but I do have a memory I remember the doorway like I remember a few things like I remember the house like parts of the house but then you also question is it a memory or is it something our mom told us our mom used to say to us like I remember your dad saying I'm leaving and I remember me saying to your dad oh when are you coming back right when are you coming back and him being like no I'm not like she thought he was just like I'm leaving I'm going to dinner I'm going here and that is how it so I can't remember if I saw that or it's just she told me and I've never done like MDMA but I've thought about it yeah you should did you guys stay in the house or did you guys move to another house because that would be memorable we moved to Calabasas he was in another relationship there's nothing good about this divorce yeah it was very bad for everyone because I read something about you guys today you've both said it and I am guilty of having thought it so like I know you guys are the daughters of David Foster yeah I know he has won 19 Grammys and had 45 nominations and fucking I'm assuming he has also I love your dad I've actually hung out with him and he's a fucking yeah yeah birthday party when I met you you were Sarah Sarah sorry thank you for the list for the listener when I met Sarah I already knew your dad was David Foster or I knew that about you and so yeah my assumption was like oh yeah this girl has probably 40 million dollars in a trust fund and that has been a kind of common thought about you guys yeah yeah yeah I mean even like yesterday I saw some thing about the show coming out and it was like easy when your dad buys it for you first of all and we've talked about it so much about privilege and Nepo babies and all this and but it is interesting how with us our dad is really like a behind the scenes person our dad is not a superstar he is a legend you gotta know music a bit yeah you gotta know music a bit to know who he is but there are so many kids of really famous people and who have done like far less interesting things I think that don't get it the same way that we get it yeah you know I mean it's interesting well you guys are both blonde and beautiful no one's getting in line to feel bad for you yeah no yeah no you're fucking hot you gotta pay the tax you gotta pay the tax no but it's not even about feeling bad it's more like for some reason and maybe it's some one of those things where we are more hyper focused on it than other people are because we're very comfortable with it today but sometimes we'll look at celebrity children who haven't really had a big career of their own but people will write articles about them and refer to them by their name as opposed to the daughter of where we get daughter of a lot yeah yeah and we feel like at some point haven't we sort of paid the price and like we have our own careers now where we could just be listed as ourselves I was nominated for a writer's guild award went to the writer's guild awards and like the caption of my photo said David Foster's daughter that's in can you imagine no did I like get here kind of on my own at this point there's like influencers who post pictures of like their buttholes and they're like daughters of someone but they don't refer to them as the daughter of whoever yeah like all you do is post your butthole I think part of it is because not to age anyone but if you were going to there was an era of like Paris Hilton and Kim I guess like other people who were sons and daughters of that had these careers in reality TV and were like known as that and I for some reason you guys some of them were even your steps because I mean some of them were actually yeah when you guys were also alive anecdotally this was my experience I didn't know who Broderick Jenner was I saw there was a reality TV show I only stopped and watched because he had a really sweet Chevelle and I like cars right and I'm like how's this young fucking kid have this $200,000 Chevelle so yeah that kid is that and I'm like yeah it's what I think it is yeah yeah it's not crazy I put you in that night true it was our obsession with not being thought of like that yeah so like when Brody and Brandon did a reality show with our dad which was we were like wanted nothing to do with it we were so like we want to be taken seriously we never want to be on reality TV we this but it almost like I don't know I don't want to be on it but it's like if we had it just leaned in well it's like you're paying the bill anyways yeah so true so what was the childhood in Calabasas like it was comfortable I assume I mean listen comfortable financially always we were never struggling financially or anything I think that it was more just a really fractured family dynamic you know we have a really good relationship with our parents today we're really close with everybody no one meant to fuck things up as badly as it went and I think that everyone has really tried to repair which is so important especially our dad he's really like we have the best we really want to repair this relationship yeah he's such a good person it just took so long for us to get there because you know he was in a relationship with someone that we didn't have a relationship with yeah and like it was never going to be repaired while they were together around 23 they broke up and we had an opportunity to repair things with our dad well also if I was spared the sight of my father raising other kids when he wasn't raising my brother and I that would have already was so judgmental of him but if you would have added that log under the fire I would have fucking torched up well we went on Kate Hudson and Ollie Hudson's podcast years ago and we talked about what it's like sort of watching your parent raise other kids yeah and live a very different life than we're living so we lived one life with our mom which was like a very normal life we're like a normal house but then our dad is this Grammy nominated producer he has a mansion in Malibu you're taking trips to Aspen yeah with him we talked about that on the podcast and the reaction was like oh boo hoo Oh, really? These girls complaining. There's a fact of life in America, and you just have to accept it, which is if you have money, compassion's off the table. But take the money out of it. And by the way, I'm fucking guilty of it. There are many people that—the thing I always say is, like, if Jeff Bezos falls down a flight of stairs and he breaks his leg and I'm watching, I'll be like, yeah, but when he stands up eventually, he's going to have $200 billion. No, not anymore. Some people, like, of course, you just ratchet up whoever's above you. And I think it comes from a misconception. Yes. You were raised to think money will solve all problems, and it's not your fault. You think it's the solution. Right, so what you do is, let's take the money out of it. These are blue-collar families. Two little girls that would love to grow up with their dad. Any little girl who watches peripherally their other parent raising other kids, it's going to hurt. And that really did shape a lot of the way that we operate in life and a lot of the relationships that we now have as adults and all of those things. It did shape how we attach to other people. Yeah. But also— And also, you guys then have a level of forgiveness that I would say a lot of people probably don't if you've been able to repair all these relationships. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I was learning about this rad zone that you and your dad were both single and cynical. And you're like, oh, yeah, like, you were a team for a while. Like, obviously, what a rad season of a relationship to have. Well, there was a point where our dad really wanted to repair things with us, and he asked, what percent am I at, and what can I do to get to 100%? Yeah. And I just remember being like, we can just be at 100%. I really would love to just be in a happy relationship with my parent, you know, where we're getting along. I said, honestly, my only trigger is just please don't minimize it. Like, it wasn't that bad, you know. But, like, if we could all own how bad it was, then let's all just move forward together. That's all I really need and want. And he's great about that. He's really worked on himself as well. Like, his relationship with us is very important to him. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking if your alarm is actually set before you go to bed. You could have sworn you set it. Even remember looking at your phone. But apparently looking at it and pressing the button are two different things because now you're waking up to sunlight and panic. Yeah. Checking first always makes sense. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. 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He's dying of cancer and so I'm at home all the time taking him to treatment. One time when I'm home, I go, hey, I want to drive around, take a picture of every house I lived in. I'm not planning on this being anything important. I just want to go have a photo of every house I ever lived in. So we're. We're kind of driving through all these different places I've lived and I only lived in one place with him or two maybe. And so we get to these apartments. He's like welfare apartments my mom and my brother and I moved into when they got divorced. And we're about to pull out of the parking lot of the place I took a picture. He just out of nowhere goes, oh, fuck, man. Oh, that intersection right there. I remember your mom asked me to drop off a couch so you guys would have a couch. And I was driving through this intersection, that one right there. And I realized I was driving away. And I was like, oh, fuck, man, I'm going to have to get out of here. And I was like, fuck, man, I'm going to have to get out of here. And I had to pull the truck over and I sat right there for like a half hour. I couldn't see. And I literally at, I must have been 37 then, 38. I did not know he gave a fuck ever before that moment. I thought he drove away and never fucking cared. It was like party time. And just getting to hear that, like, oh, oh, like that heals so much that it broke your heart to leave us. I just needed to hear that, right? To your point. To your point, Erin. I don't need you to fix everything. I just need acknowledgement that that was really painful. That was so sweet, Dad. It is so sweet. But, you know, you don't think that when you're the kid that was left. You just think, oh, they're not having a great time. There's new girlfriends involved. And you remember the hardest stuff. By the way, totally different income bracket. Same shit. When you look at your parents as like, who is it that says, like, look at your parents like they're five years old, you know? And it makes you go like, shit. Yeah. It's so crazy because I've never had this experience ever until two days ago. And it's almost the same experience that you had. We went to our friend's wedding in Hawaii last week. And I talked to my dad. And he's like, how was it being away from Noah? And my husband and I just hadn't left her. She's two years old together for four days before. And we were kind of like, everyone's bragging about how fun it is to be away from their kids. Like, we had a really hard time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we didn't really like it. And I kind of expected my dad to be like, oh, please. It's good for her. Get over it. And he goes, he told me a story I'd never heard before. He goes, you know, it's so crazy. When your mom and I got married, they got married after we were already born. And he said, you guys were little. And we never did a honeymoon. And then Kenny Loggins gave us their house in Santa Barbara to go for the weekend. And it was like our belated honeymoon. And we were so excited to go. And we finally got there. And we left after one night because we missed you guys too much. Wow. And I said, wait. Oh, my god. Like, just mom did? Or you? Right, right, right, right, right. Because all the stories that they ever tell, it's like, he has to work. She's sad to leave us. He has to work. And I'd never heard him say. He goes, "No, it was really hard for us. Like, we both wanted to go home to you." And I swear to you, it, like, healed. this little part of my heart where I was like, I didn't know you felt that way about me. You just need to know that they care about you. It made me so happy he missed me as a one-year-old. But you know what? I think when we were young, it was too hard for him. I mean, look, we all have real intimacy issues. We had a dad who couldn't go there. In defense, he's Canadian. That is true. I mean, look, people leave marriages all the time. You know, it happens. And sometimes it really is for the best. But the way that it happened, for him to go there with us would have just been too painful for him. He was with someone who wanted war. And like, if that person wants war, you're going to get a war. And you like to fight, yeah, a little bit? I like to fight. Do you? Well, not as much anymore in my life. I don't get that vibe. I really am in a different place in my life today than I used to be. I used to be really ready to fight. Now I get scared to get the juice going, you know? Because it doesn't really ever make me feel good in the end. I was going to say, I think the realization you have as you get older and you're a fighter is, oh, I lose every fight I have, even if I win. It's like I would have these fucking showdowns at intersections with dudes and maybe I'd even get in a fight. And then for like the next five hours, like just the adrenaline dump and the cortisol, like what I'm doing to my body to get all crazy like that. I'm just like, I'm going to die really early winning these fights. But did you fight or did you just hold grudges? Because to me, those are different things. I think. I think I was ready to stand up for myself at any point. Growing up in LA, there's such a hierarchy with every room you walk into, right? Like you are immediately put into the category of how important you are, how attractive you are, how old you are, how useful you are to speak to, to not speak to if someone's looking over your shoulder. You think that's just LA? I think it's definitely height. I think it's harder to detect status elsewhere. Here, I think there's a lot of indicators that help in that. Like I met you and I'm so fish out of water. From that scene. Like I meet you through Kate. I mean, truly. No, Kate met you through me. I knew you way before that. Are we talking about that? Sure. I met you when you met Ashton. I met Ashton the day he came to town. A hundred percent. That's true. Like when you and Kate, are we, do we talk about that? Yeah, of course. Oh, when you and Kate started dating, you and I fully knew each other. So, yeah, yeah. But what I'm saying is I walk into that situation and it's like, as someone from Detroit, it's like, oh yeah. Her date. Her dad's famous. Her parents were famous. They went to school. Like there's a whole network. It's like 90210 in your head. Yes, in my mind. It's like, oh, all these people are. Which is not accurate, but that's. Talking about status being on display. Like I walked in and I'm like, oh yeah. And it's dink, clink, clink, clink, clink. Like it's just very fucking palpable. Was it intimidating or you didn't like it? That's a great question. He loved it. He wanted their approval. Well, I loved it. It's like all these. Yeah, all these girls were like into you. Ridiculously beautiful girls. Yeah. And I'm much different, I think. Yeah. Than all the other folks that are coming around. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm liking that I'm a fish out of water. I don't know. I mean, I think like all of us, we have a perception of ourselves that's always so different than someone else. And I was not nearly as close to Kate at that time that Sarah was. But I feel like the general feeling around her dating you was like, oh, she's dating someone who's like cool and normal and a guy's guy. And funny. And like funny and like not treating her with kit gloves the same way that maybe somebody else would. That's what I remember. But there wasn't like. There wasn't like a feeling of, wow, she picked up trailer trash along the way. Like it wasn't like, who is this guy? Who's going to pay for that? Wait, wait, wait. It wasn't what I felt. Hold on. When I met you, you were fresh off the boat. When you started dating Kate, you were already famous. Correct. Yes. Yes. When we met with Ashton, I had been nine years trying to get it. You weren't even on Punk'd yet. No. I was like, well, I was on Punk'd because I met Ashton through Punk'd. I didn't know Ashton prior. Okay, but Punk'd like hadn't come out yet. Yes, exactly. When I met you, no one knew you. Exactly. Yeah. And I was in this unbelievable honeymoon where I was like, I had been here for nine years in a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. Yeah, and you did love a trucker hat. You were always in a trucker hat. I had no money, Sarah. That was the weirdest thing is to be famous and be broke. Like I would be at a bar and people knew me. I was like, I couldn't buy a fucking drink. But at any rate. I just want to put a bow around, which I'm sure we'll go back to it. But just with our dad, we healed with our dad in a real way like 25 years ago. So we've had like a really good relationship with him. For a long time. For more time than you've known. Yeah. This isn't like a new thing where the family's healed. Yeah. Like we really did heal such a long time ago. So I always just want to like, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Say that. Yeah, sometimes it comes across more negative than ever intended because that's what people will grab on to. Yeah. I'm ready to make one observation now. Okay. Just based on the things I've heard, not having the same parasocial relationship. But I think the people you're answering to in your head, like you're spending a little too much time answering to people that certainly exist. Those people are going to hate you and they want to hate you and it has nothing to do with you. I think this all the time. It's like something will come out and everyone's against me and it's generally related to Kristen. I have to remind myself like, no, no, that group of people already hated my guts and now they had something, which is great. And then the people that love me, they love me and that same thing they like. There are people dedicated to hating you. Oh, no. A lot of people hate us. It's not related to anything material. There's nothing actually to think about. And no one actually fucking knows us. But it's also they don't hate us. They don't hate you. They just want to hate. It's like they just want to hate anything. And so if you're there, I don't really feel like we get that much hate personally. No, I don't. I don't think you do. I don't really think we're like the top of the list of hated people. No, no. I agree. I think probably when you were younger, there was maybe probably more of it. But to your earlier point, it's like everyone's done a lot of stuff. When I look at your guys' history together, the main thing I will say about you guys, which is obvious on paper, you guys are fucking hustlers. You're such hustlers. Dude, you guys have done every fucking thing that could have been done by the two of you. You're gangsters. That's that. That's nice. Yeah. So, you know, whatever. It's important to remember these things like there's no getting those people back. There's no doing the right thing. There's no phrasing something perfectly for them. These certain people fucking hate your guts. And they're going to no matter if you save a school bus full of people, they go, of course, she cut her. Dad said. Yeah. It's so true. And that's that. We always say that. We go in like the Nobel Peace Prize for coming up with it. It's like a cure for Alzheimer's Day. Be like, David Foster's daughter has gotten a cure to Alzheimer's. With all the money they just live in. With all that money. I do think, though, Dax, you are on to something a little bit with you, Sarah, because like even on the podcast, you are often like, I think the audience thinks this is boring. You're always thinking about the reception. I need people's approval. I'm very. Yeah. And I'm like, who? No. First of all, no one thinks this is boring. And then you calling it out actually is like, is it? No, it's not. Like, it kind of like makes you. You're like, am I boring? Why am I listening to this? Am I too easily entertained? Oh, my God. But this is the same reason why I don't have parties for myself. If I have had a party for myself, I hide in the bathroom because all I can think about is I have inconvenience people to be here for me. It's all connected. But I'm guessing some of that comes from, again, now I have a stereotype and it's probably really, really incomplete and wrong. But I do think you guys grew up probably in a pretty competitive environment. But not with each other. Well, I don't think that about each other. We've never been competitive with each other. But the thing you already talked about, which is like, it is a town where it's like everyone kind of knows what everyone's parents do and how relevant everyone is. No, your audience will throw up. My best friend's parents were Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn. I thought my dad was a loser. Right, right. Yeah. Snake Plitzkins versus a musician. And like at Aaron's school, she went to the Malibu Public School. So she was like the queen bee. I went to Crossroads where everyone's parent was like a A-list. My dad was. Academy Award winner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, oh, which is fucking crazy. It's crazy. Yeah, drop you at any other high school and you're like, you're strutting around. Yeah. How did, Aaron, you end up at the public school and Sarah end up at Crossroads? She was academically thriving as a kid and she was very on a path that was very like straight and clear. And she did well in school and she did well with like friends. And I like couldn't get through the third grade or the fourth grade. It was like all very challenging for me. So I kept like moving around different schools to see what would fit. She went to Switzerland. She had a lower enough. But yes, that was a question I had. Yeah. How'd you end up in Switzerland in a boarding school? I was like a really unhappy teenager. I really didn't feel like I was growing up in the right place. I was like, I don't belong here. Like, I don't want to be in Malibu. I don't want to go to the beach every weekend. I don't want to talk about the things you guys are talking about. I wanted to be like emo. I wanted to like listen to like Tori Amos and put Black Eyed Liner on. I wanted to be like. You wanted to declare you're not valid. Really? The whole time? Yes. And I wanted to grab onto something a little bit meatier and I couldn't get it. It was tricky being in a family that was super visible when I was going to public school because I was mostly in only public school except for boarding school. I was maybe in sixth grade. You were in public school except for one year of your education. So it was such a shining light on where I was coming from. And there was a lot of negative attention for a lifestyle that I didn't have as much access to as maybe they thought I did because I didn't live in the house that they were talking about. Yeah, yeah, right, right. They'd go to school and talk about like, oh, the raging party at the Foster's. Erin's like, I wasn't there. Yeah. Because I wasn't invited because I don't live there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just wanted to escape it and I was just not happy. I just didn't really like myself. It wasn't working for me. And so I just sort of thought, what's like the farthest place I could think of to go? And I found this place in Switzerland. You applied by yourself. Yeah, I applied by myself. I went to like Column McEwen. You don't know that. Sorry, you grew up. Okay. So Column McEwen's like a summer school to help you graduate because you like can't get through school. Right. And then I went to a school in Santa Monica that's essentially meant to, like, pay your way through the rest of high school because you, like, can't pass the grade. So I couldn't figure it out. Do you think you had a learning disability? I, like, really wanted to. Yeah, sure, sure. You want some explanation. I would have loved for that to be the excuse. Yeah, yeah. But unfortunately, when I went to Switzerland, I got straight A's. Oh, wow. At, like, this was an elite boarding school. Yeah, it was a hard school. Yeah. What were your classmates like? Were there oligarch kids there? Were there, like, what was the vibe? There were a ton of American kids whose dads typically worked at an oil company, and they pay for the family to move to Saudi Arabia, and then they pay for the kids to go to boarding school. They weren't super rich kids, a little bit blue-collar families who then had moved to the Middle East, and that company pays for them to go. And then there was a ton of Kazakhstanian kids. They spoke Russian, and they looked Asian, and they had a lot of money. And they would take limos from class to class. No, no, no. Yeah. So I certainly wasn't, like, the rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did anyone even. No, because I was from L.A. and, like, a Hollywood family, and they thought that was interesting. You were Sarah at the school. Yeah, exactly. I became Sarah overnight. Except you had, like, an eyebrow ring and, like, black hair, so not really Sarah. It was my first exposure to a community where the hottest person wasn't the most popular person. The person who was the most interesting was the most popular. Oh, that's so great. Europe. The person who spoke other languages and had traveled and had. Aspirations. Aspirations. Reasons. Yes. And Malibu really, it served me none of that. It just gave me the flattest view of the world. I was so not stimulated by it and not appreciated. I went to this school, and I felt like I, like, met myself for the first time. And it was cool. And then it was cool to do well in school. Yeah. Because people cared about their future, and I wanted to care about my future. How many years did you go there? This is the part where I'm not proud. I only went for the one year. Okay. That's okay. Because I got my heart broken. Oh, by a boy there. By a boy. Kazakhstan. I wish. I can't even. He was from Chattanooga, Tennessee. Oh. They'll get you. Yeah. Those are rough ones. Yeah. Took my virginity and broke my heart. Oh, shit. So I had to swear off the whole country. Great place to lose your virginity, though, in the Alps. It was like an Italian castle. It was great. Were you at altitude? I was probably at altitude. You might go over in those fucking pole boots. But it still did the thing I needed it to do. Oh, yeah. It was like, opened my mind up to, I can be this different person, and my life could be bigger. And so I think it definitely set me on a better self-esteem journey. For sure. Yeah. Ultimately, you guys both out of high school start acting. Yeah. What informs that decision? Different reasons or. I mean, to me, it would seem like just a no-brainer. Everyone probably you're friends with is also doing it. For me, it was kind of the low-hanging fruit, like, available to you. No, but you were, like, doing classes, and you were. Yeah, I was trying, for sure. But I definitely felt like it was an easy next step. Again, it'd be me going to work for the automotive industry, which I did. Yeah. That's what you do. That's what you do. Yeah. That's what you do in Detroit. Yeah. You both had, by any other measure, if you moved here, like, tons of success. No. Yes. You were in a million TV shows. You were the fucking. I remember you being the star of The Big Bounce. Yeah, you had a much bigger acting career. Yeah, but, like, I did not. Even in high school, when Kate is, like, starring in movies, I just genuinely thought that was so cool. There was no part of me, I swear to God, where I was like, oh, I want to be famous. I want to be an actress. I didn't get that until later. She's like, I felt that much later. Yeah, no, I did. But during high school. I didn't feel it. What did you think you were going to do? And why aren't either of you musical, or are you? Good question. I mean, Erin's husband lies to her and tells her she has a good voice. Like, she does not. I mean, no, it's good. It's good, but it's not, like, a professional singing voice. Yeah, like, she's good at karaoke. It just skipped us. Okay. None of you play piano, or none of that was happening. Okay. But also, maybe, were you like, I don't want to do that? Well, I had this experience. When I was in fifth grade, I took piano lessons, and we always had heard stories about our old, he's playing, like, you know, Beethoven. Concerto. So I was, like, taking lessons. I felt like this is not really clicking for me, but maybe there's, like, something that's going to come through me. You know, my hands are just going to, like, touch the keys, and it's going to, like. That's what I would have thought. It's got to happen. Me too. You just have to open up your chakra enough to let the energy pass through. You don't need any practice. You need, like, a spiritual awakening. Like, you know when, like, the pianos play themselves? Yes, yes, yes. You know, I sort of did believe that that might happen. And then I had one recital, and my dad came, and I played. And I didn't really mess up, so I was, like, he's going to be pretty impressed. And then afterwards, he came up, and he was, like, you don't have it. You can quit. Oh. And I was, like, oh, okay. It was a really freeing moment, and I really genuinely appreciate this about him, because what he said was, this is not your thing. This is my thing, and you do not have to do this to get my attention. Let me liberate you from this. Yes. He brought this up, I think, that day, unless I'm making this up, but he used to tell us a story. Our grandma would tell us a story about how our dad broke his hand, and they were, like, you can't do this. You cannot play piano for six weeks, because he broke his plan playing baseball. And he would, like, sneak out of his room, and he couldn't stop playing piano. Exactly. And the hairline fracture was growing up his arm, and the cast is getting higher up, and it's, like, all the way to his shoulder. This feels like a fake story. Is this real? It feels like a grandma story. Yeah, for sure. But he said to me, like, do the thing you would do through a broken hand. Yeah. That's not this. That's a great lesson. So go do that thing. And the truth is, I wanted to go be in, like, a play at school, and so I didn't ever feel pressure. None of us did. None of us did. I didn't put pressure on us for anything, actually. I put way more pressure on my kids. Already, it's at 14, I'm like, who are you going to be? What are you going to be? What are you like? What are we going to— Our parents didn't even take us, like, to our colleges. They were kind of just, like, figure it out. It's weird. I dig that. Back to Crossroads. What were you going to do? Honestly, I was in a super toxic relationship, and I just couldn't even fathom going to college. I was like, I can't go to college, because then this person will cheat on me. So how—like, this is, like—what do you mean? Like, it was the most toxic freaking situation ever, but there was this little issue where our parents were very clear. Like, you don't go to college. Good luck. Yeah, you're on your own. It's not like you're going to have a credit card to go live this life and have— I think that's fair. Whatever. So I literally was like, well, I guess people have always told me I could model. Maybe I could try that, and that's what I started doing, and I went to Paris. Oh, great. I went to Paris for a month, and then got jobs from there. And your mom, Rebecca, was a model, right? Our mom was never a model. Never. Did I say this on the internet? Yeah, that's what I read. Thank you. I think she was, I think a little bit in her 20s in New York or something. She was a flight attendant for American Airlines. That was a hot gig. I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, like, where the models really were. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Kristen and I went to—maybe she has told you this story. This is the wildest story, and I need to be incredibly clear on the fact that this was before the person had decreed Sharia law in Brunei. So let's—this is pre-Sharia law. Okay. I got invited to the Sultan of Brunei's children's birthday party. Because there was two boys, and they were a fan of one of my movies. And Kristen and I were dating for maybe six months. I get this email. It's the weirdest invitation ever. And I say to her, I've been invited to the Sultan of Brunei's children's birthday party in England. Airfare and all the stuff. I said, I feel like there's no way we can miss it. This is so bizarre. We have to go see this, right? And she's like, yeah, okay. I didn't know where Brunei was. I hear Sultan, I think Middle East. Brunei's an island next to the Philippines. So the kids arrive. There's five of them. And all these adopted children. We come to find out their mom, these group of five kids, was the flight attendant when he flew to London. They fell in love on this flight from Brunei to London. They landed, and they went to the Dorsetshire Hotel and stayed there. He then married her, and on their anniversary, he bought her the Dorsetshire Hotel. That's so sweet. It's kind of sweet, right? But anyways, yes. It's a nice hotel. He fell in love with the flight. He fell in love with the flight attendant on the flight. I hope you still have that contact, because I stayed there during Wimbledon, and it is very pricey. And I was not going to stay there. It's a nice hotel. I hope you still have that contact. Well, the whole trip, mind you, again, these kids were so fucking cute. There's two girls, three boys. They all got to invite whoever they wanted. That was so funny just to witness what they all— And you were— Yes, we were at the kids' table from, like, without a paddle or something. Oh, with, like, Big Bird? Yeah, I was Big Bird. Oh, wow. I was the Big Bird. It's like the Richard Pryor movie. I love that movie. The toy. Yes, I was the toy. You were the toy. And I loved it. It was great. There was archery and hot air balloon rides. It was spectacular. We had so much fun. And then we fell in love with these kids, and they said, You've got to come to Brunei for my father's birthday. It's the whole month of August. No, it's not. The whole country celebrates. You guys have got to come to that. And we're like, based on this trip we just took, we're in. Like, we'll go to Brunei in August for this party. And then, like, we got home, and then two months later, he decreed Sharia law, and they start boycotting the Beverly Hills Hotel, which he also owns. I remember that. Oh, yeah. And we were like, fuck. Yeah. We're like, we've got to go to this party now. No, yeah. You can't go at that point. Oh, Hollywood is so funny. So weird. Hollywood is so funny. There it is. Yeah. One day you think you're going to Brunei to a king's birthday. The next day, you've got to protest it. Oh, God. Okay, so the modeling led to the acting for you, Sarah. Yeah. This wasn't, like, some burning desire in me. I wasn't trying to be a thespian. Like, I wasn't that good. I didn't work that hard. I really just fucked it all up. I had so many amazing opportunities, and I just didn't. No, the world was, like, begging to make her a star, and she, like, wouldn't show up to the auditions. Really? Right, half in. So you were kind of self-sabotaging? Self-sabotaging, but also just, like, an entitlement that was so unattractive. Like, honestly, like, I look back, and I'm like, how unattractive? But don't you think maybe deep down it was because you were afraid of getting rejected? Of course. That you weren't going to be good at it. Of course. I mean, listen, I did it, you know, it was the modeling, and then I was hosting a show on MTV. You know, it was this thing that you did in the late 90s early 2000s, right? It just kept progressing. Progressing to other rungs of the ladder. And I took it for granted and I didn't treat it with the respect it deserved to be treated. And life doesn't work like that. Life doesn't allow that for too long. Like you eventually get kicked back. You're right. There's a moment it can work. And even when people get bent out of shape about nepotism, I'll always say like, it is true you'll get a shot more than another person will, but it's a meritocracy. They will not keep hiring you. You'll get an unfair shot. But then beyond that, there's really no. Erin's next script could be really fucking bad. I mean, it wouldn't be, but if it was really bad. That'll be the end of the line. That's not what I meant. I meant like she could write her next script and if it's bad, no one's going to be like, but let's make it because her dad has a bunch of Grammys. Or even that she's had an incredible hit under her belt. No, it doesn't. Nothing matters. In this business. Work does have to speak for itself at some point. If I can argue another thing against the Nepo argument is simply this, like our children will have an advantage. Two daughters, they certainly will get an agent easier than I got an agent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's not. Not even the nepotism benefit. I'm on a walk with Delta when she's five years old in this neighborhood. She makes a joke. I laugh. Like 20 seconds later, she makes the second joke, the same joke a second time. I don't laugh. And she at five years old goes, I went to the well too many times, didn't I? No. And I go, yeah, you went to the well too many times. Like my five-year-old already knows about comedy and about going to the well too much. And it's like, that's the advantage they're going to have when they arrive. They'll have this knowledge that is real. But also when you know you're not going to be homeless. Yes, that's real. The safety net is real. Like when you go to bed every night knowing like, I'm going to be fed, I'm going to have a roof over my head. Yes. There is a sense of freedom with that. Is enviable. Yes. If you don't have that, it leads to angst and stress. Then you smell crack in your one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. Also though, also the best fit is that you saw it work out for people. That's a huge benefit that like you grew up in a house. In a house where your dad is a legend, just the fact that that happened tells you something like, oh. So you're around a lot of successful people who are self-made and they are good at what they do and they teach you things and they inform the conversation in the room. And you are exposed to like a level of entertainment people and interesting conversations that heighten your ability to be in these rooms. You're educated. You get educated. You're not a fish out of water. It is a huge advantage. You have a general with a studio network executive. I was much more relaxed in that room than somebody else might have been. And that helps you. It is an advantage. But all that being said, Hollywood said no to me. All my connections. All my connections. And I'm talking connections. I knew everybody. When I was everyone, every executive, every head of studio, every movie star, I knew everybody. And Hollywood said no to me. Your classmate's now running Warner Brothers, for crying out loud. Yeah, Jesse. Yeah, so lovely. My best friend's dad was Ron Meyer, ran Universal. Yeah. He never was like, let me put you inside. This was my best friend's dad who I was with every weekend. And he did not put me in a film. Do you know what I'm saying? Right, right, right. The illusion is not actually what it is, right? Now you're a businesswoman and you're supposed to be that. No, no. It all worked out. Well, that was kind of my question. I was going to ask how each of you decide, okay, we're leaving that pursuit. Because again, Erin, I know you're shitting on it, but you're on a ton of fucking TV shows. No, she was. I mean, no. I mean, she was dead in a lot of them. Like one episode. Yeah, I was dead in a lot of them. She was a dead hooker. Again, I would have killed you. Oh, man. If she was a 9-1-1, I was dead hooker. Oh, okay. Yeah. I was a corpse. CSI, I was like a crackhead in like a, you know, halfway home. But that's a hard role. No, she had no lines. Oh, okay. So you were just stumbling around. No, I did. I did. I had lines. I had lines. And you had more TV credits than Monica had or I had at that age. Well, thank you. Well, I definitely felt like I wasn't living up to my full potential. Yes. So that's what I'm curious about. When is the moment that you go like, okay, we're on the wrong path? It was gradual. And then I started feeling this. I had like a writing bug as a kid, but it was like bad poetry. Eyebrow ring, goth, bad poetry. Yes, exactly. It all lines up. We already knew. Yeah, it lines up perfectly. And then I wasn't. I wasn't feeling like I was doing great in my 20s with my acting stuff. And then I started a blog when blogs were relevant. I don't know what this is, 2010, 2008. I don't know what it is. You didn't have to name it the world's first blog. Yes, I didn't have to. I was early. I was like right in the zone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was called totallyconfidentandcompletelyinsecure.com. Oh, okay. And it was just anything, random, nothing. Sometimes I would write random scenes that were in my head. Sometimes I would write about like a weird date that I had been on. And it unlocked something. Things went viral at the time. It didn't go viral. But it would get sent around and someone would mention it to me. And I'd be like, wait a second. Oh, you thought that was funny or you thought that was interesting. And it really opened my brain up to this idea that that was really much more my thing. And then my girlfriend, Sophia Rossi, started Hello Giggles. And I started writing on Hello Giggles. This is Monica Sane and I love it, which is like love who loves you back. Love the thing that loves you back. Acting wasn't loving me back. I wasn't loving it. I didn't have a problem. I didn't have a process. I was like, I'm faking this a little bit. You can feel when you're pushing up against something. Yes, it wasn't. And then the writing was like really flowing for me. It just felt really me. You always talk about red lights and green lights. Yes, I was all red lights with acting and then writing was all green lights. Matthew McConaughey. It just made sense. Red lights, green lights. Oh, yeah. That's his book, right? That's his book. So I stole it. Or you invented it and he stole it. Wait, she's been saying it for years. Okay. I will say. You might have a lawsuit. You know what, Matthew? I bet I can guess what year she started using it. Wait, you guys, does Matthew listen to the pod? Is that what he got? Oh, my God. Is Matthew McConaughey at World's First Podcast? To be clear, I'm saying I probably stole it from him. Aaron Paul. Aaron Paul. No, I'm saying he probably stole it from you. I am too. I'm doubling down on that. Foster Sisters, I was just listening to your show. Oh, God. I opened the door for this. I love this song. What is it? That's really good. Thank you. I had to ask. Mr. Dax was the Dax. That's really good. Okay, so then I basically, I'm writing for Hello Giggles. I'm writing for Daily Candy. Does anyone remember that? Oh, yeah. For Daily Candy? Yes. You're also working at Free People. Yeah. Which I'm sure the audience would love to whatever, but she was working at a clothing store called Free People at 27 years old. Love it. Where like her friends would come in, her peers would come in and be like, give me a size four, bitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did have a different point of view on these things. Like Sarah was never going to stoop to working at Free People. No, but I did JCPenney catalogs where I modeled bras. Honestly, they were hot. They were in black and white. They were for the newspaper. So, yes, that gave me the writing bug and I wasn't making any money. I needed it because you don't make money on like the internet stuff. But you get a staff writing position on a Ryan Murphy show. Yes. Well, so what happened was Sophia introduced me to Olly Obst, who was at Three Arts, which was like pinnacle of like where you want to be as a comedy writer. And he wanted to represent me, which was huge. And I'd never written a script before. And so he said, you need to write a script and I'll teach you how. Wow. And we came up with this idea. I was dating a girl at the time. This is like this random one year of my life where I was a lesbian. A DJ. Yeah. She was a DJ. Very popular. We have had her brother on the show. Friend of the pod, just want to say. Friend of the pod. So I wrote this script called Lezzy. You're a big converter. I'm really, now I see the pattern. What's my converter? Oh, yeah. Hey, you're like a converter. You're someone that'll just like, yeah, here we go. She's down. Yeah, I'll convert. I think you're someone that tries out a lot of things. Yeah, yeah. That's a good quality. Thank you. I wish I was more like that. It's good. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert. If you dare. Confidence. It's listening to your gut. It's moving forward even when the path ahead is unclear. For nearly 160 years, Pacific Life has helped people keep their promises. Building confidence for generations. Whether you're confident in your financial future or just beginning to envision it, we're here to help. Ask a financial professional how. Pacific Life. The power of a promise. Pacific Life Insurance Company, Omaha, Nebraska. And in New York, Pacific Life. Newly, in Phoenix, Arizona. Anyway, I write this script, first script I ever wrote. Ollie, I have to give him so much credit because he really taught me, like, I'd send him 10 pages and he'd be like, girl, that's not a joke. You put it in the description, you didn't put in the lines and the dialogue and show me where an act break was. I didn't know any of it. That script really changed things for me because I ended up having all three big agencies offer me to be with them. And I was like, how did this happen? Yeah, yeah. This is crazy. And I had never experienced this in my life. My acting life, ever. I never felt like I got the big call, you know? Like, no one ever was like, I see something in you. And this was the first time I ever had that experience. Beyond that, your reaction to these meetings is going to be so different than even if you'd gotten those calls as an actor. Oh, 100%. Like, the feeling you have going there is a different thing entirely. Oh, yeah, because I wasn't faking it. Like, this was really me. No one can do this for me. I can't phone it in. It was the most vulnerable and the most honest and the most myself. And. It really shifted even who I was out in the world and how I interact with people because I was being more myself. Got a staff writing job. That's a big job. That's what a writer in Hollywood is dying to get. And Ryan loved her. I couldn't believe when I would drive on the lot, I was just like, this is it. It was on the Paramount lot. Yeah, it's a good lot. She'd, like, call me every day driving on it. She'd be like, this is crazy. Yeah. I just couldn't believe it. That I have a fob. It is. Yes, it feels so good. I, like, wanted my friends to see my little ID card in my car. Sorry, I just have to go to work tomorrow. That's my thing. It's a big-ass deal. I was really proud of myself. I mean, I was very low on the staff, but it was very cool. And when did you guys do Barely Famous? Was that after or before? After that writer's room, I took out a pilot to try to develop. i couldn't sell it and then at the time my managers at three arts said it's so funny we have all these clients who are trying to get reality shows and we keep getting calls from networks seeing if you guys will do a reality show but you won't do one we kind of all looked at each other like there's something here there's something funny about two girls who are surrounded by reality tv and they refuse to do it so they film a reality show about how they won't do a reality show like let's write a scripted show spinal tap it's sort of like a curb style show and that's how barely famous came together and it was certainly my way in as a comedy writer trying to like wedge this thing in and it really shifted a lot for us but it was hard also because we ended up selling it to vh1 that really did only have reality tv they didn't have comedies really and so it was hard for us to maintain the kind of show we were trying to create it was ahead of its time it was very funny it was really fun when do you guys start favorite daughter barely famous got canceled in like 2017 to something 2016 which was devastating of course right because all of a sudden people started taking us seriously as like comedic actresses right like all of a sudden it was this taste of what it could be yeah you know which we never really experienced like i was literally a failed actress she was writing all those retired yeah yeah and then all of a sudden we would walk into rooms and we were like doing the hollywood reporter and on covers of things we're like holy shit this is what it feels like for people to respect you there's also another level of pride when you've created it you're not just like you've been cast the show genius you're a lucky recipient like it's a very private no like bob eiger came up to us at an event was like i love the show and i was like i will die yeah and it's the drug it's like you're like i need this like pump this through my veins it feels so good and then you start attaching your self-worth to that oh god yeah and then it gets canter bad and i was like i had a really hard i was like you guys i i'm gonna die no i was like what do i have now i was like because now you don't want to go audition for things because now you're like no no i'm only in things that we create and write and cast ourselves and you can't just go do that it was like lightning in a bottle really that we had sort of cracked the code in the show and so i was like depressed i mean not actually but i was really it was she kind of just couldn't accept it yeah i just kept wanting to are you sure somewhere else no like can we like for sure like who do i know like no girl yeah it's canceled nobody wants it nobody wants no we shopped it to everybody nobody but it was so frustrating because everywhere would go people be like that show is genius i'm like but like i just couldn't you were confused understand what i was hearing but then it was like really low rating anyways sarah likes using delta as well oh i love delta the delta the delta oh he does she sometimes criticizes yeah no i love it i criticize her for saying and she criticized oh when i said she's like okay i'm like oh you went to great way to explain what i'm trying to say yeah when would you prefer a new word he just says it non-stop i feel like she like heard someone on a panel say it and now she's like using it all the time and i'm like okay new word alert terra firma is another one i cut that's what i'm currently you're saying it what is it terra firma on solid well yeah on solid ground no no the one that you hate that i'm using is prima facie that one too it's just i don't know what that is prima facia on face value it's like a legal term like i'm prima facia face value like what it should be obvious and this was extra hard because i was there when he first heard it which one prima facia no i've known prima facia for 20 years said it and then well it might have infected me but yeah but i did i did learn prima facia in college i mean it's a beautiful word if you can put it i think it's a terrible word don't like say delta i you know it's his daughter's name i know but people like respect me more there's just something you can elevate prima facia or terra firma wait i'm gonna go with prima facia and people are like what like it sounds like fashion you're talking about your face sounds like a procedure i can't wait to hear a lot of experts i need to get the short hand do you guys ever do solos just the two of you or your only guests well every episode has an hour-long fact check which is just us shooting the shit yeah and every single one of them i mean i've obviously listened to the podcast but well this is what's clear is i have a crazy parasocial relationship but when i met aaron i did feel like there was a huge imbalance she's like oh what do you guys do no that's not true we fangirled when you talked about us you don't even know about the fact check that's okay that's okay no but you guys are major like honestly we didn't even think we could get on this podcast wait really well we couldn't for a couple years it took some yeah i was like wait really just three i was like did someone cancel how are we getting on true by the way so good i was like dax remembers like i knew him before he was famous right like make sure he knows so let's do five minutes on that i think we should right i want to know first impressions okay fine you start i mean my first impression is you're so fucking beautiful it's insane well we never hooked up we didn't know and i never hooked up with any of your friends you didn't hook up as much as you should have i hooked up with nobody a million percent you guys i hooked up with fucking nobody no it's pathetic honestly yeah nobody and then when you were in relationships they were very long yeah my roster of like the people i passed down were epic what yeah yeah i mean i want to just like i would love to play a game like i know somehow i bet you've turned down leonardo dicaprio like he dated oh my god that's so wonderful i feel like i would hook up with benicia oh yeah he says the best he has some good ones that's what i'm saying now i'm feeling like he was like on family vacations with us it was very funny oh my god he's a gem of a human i have only the best things to say about anybody he's fantastic that i ever dated but no i just didn't have fun with him i just didn't have fun with him i just didn't have fun with him i just didn't have fun in life would you agree you would know best yeah i think he looks like brad bill what do you mean he's the puerto rican they do they look identical no they're like twins yes no no guys guys guys people have said people know it they already know it they already knew it that was how he was pitched to me they were like he's the puerto rican brad yeah you do have a great story on your pod about george clooney i'll let i'll let people go find that you know what i that anyone listens yeah yeah it's easy to do i really do so i talk shit i kind of embellish i like it like storyteller yeah the way you listen to it on the podcast was different than the headlines the headlines really were shitty because they always are yeah they always are and this is why i hate talking about celebrities on our podcast because of course if joe schmo talks about george clooney they're gonna print something right so whatever so i had just talked about we had mutual friends who thought that we would be a nice couple beautiful pair but at that time i was like 22 and he was like 40 and it just felt but the way that they printed it was too old for you he was this old man and then he was this i think you did say like you or something yeah no you said he was boring yes and i just that's not to hear that's not what i meant the guys he's george well and now you're talking about him again on here this is i brought it up no but also there won't be there's nothing new to say there's nothing there's nothing to say but i give it a second the point is you had your options like you had a lot to be clear he was not asking to be set up with me when he met me he was kind of like uh he was not interested either so back to my impression i thought you were outrageously beautiful and then i thought you were suspiciously friendly for being so beautiful we always had a very nice relationship you and i yeah my memory is a little different of yours mine is like i knew this guy you dated and i didn't like that guy oh yeah no i get that yeah i never liked the guy i knew from aa and i'm like yeah i don't like this guy and that's your ex-boyfriend and that was crazy and i'm meeting you and i'm kind of just like how are how are you time a day and i wasted like five years of my life but we you know we'll pull you into that cycle right these are my wounds i don't move on easily so i get into relationships i get my heart broken and then it's like i waste years upset over it like i'm not a mover on her it takes me a very long time to move on because even when i'm not in the relationship i'm like mourning the relationship because sarah's someone who's like paralyzed in the moment she won't ever do the things she needs to do in the relationship so she won't tell the person how she feels in any relationship whether it be romantic or not she has a very hard time actually doing the things she needs to do in real time so then when it's over she lives in so much regret yeah that she's always like replaying it over and over in her head cut it on this cut it on that yeah but also professionally i had an agent who like wouldn't return my calls he was my agent and i wouldn't fire him like the guy like wouldn't even call me back but i still didn't have this relationship is over i'm moving on i'm gonna go look for someone who actually cares about me is a theme with every relationship i've always been so in awe of girls of young women i love it who get their heart broken and then rebound i love it i think it's so amazing all these young girls where they're like so upset they give themselves a week and then they're like oh i'm gonna go out with so-and-so i'm like i'm obsessed with you right i love that but it's great well it's like an audition it didn't go well you gotta get up for the next one yeah i just i don't know i'm missing the the dna i'm missing the well it seems the probably pick people who you feel like i'm gonna be in a long term like maybe you're slow to connect but then when you do it's very deep totally so then of course it's gonna be hard it takes me time i need friendship first i've never just like met someone and fallen in love i was hearing an episode i was listening to of yours today where you were saying like never been on a first date never i've never been you've been you were on a bunch of dates yeah like 100 so many then i was re kind of introduced to you when i was dating kate and i was around you a lot there for that period yeah but like the dynamic shifted i feel like i don't know no no i just sort of like remember me being excited like oh my god this is great. We're friends. You're dating. And you were, I think a little bit, not, standoffish but you and I don't think had the same dynamic really that's my memory you weren't like a dick or anything oh good because I just had lovely feelings about you no and I thought this is the funnest person that's always around no I only have the best feelings because a lot of you get stuck with your girlfriend's friends and they could be a big miss and sometimes I remember being really excited that you guys were dating yeah it was a very and you guys got serious fast god yeah and you guys were like always in beanies yeah making out like fucking all day long yeah from the trucker hat to the beanie yeah but I remember feeling kind of like territorial over you like I remember this oh good this is fun and I remember being like Kate this is crazy it's like my best friend yeah and I remember like you and her were kind of like what like you don't know him that well yeah like literally and then I felt stupid oh my goodness I didn't even know any of this because it wasn't like that deep but like I do remember feeling like stupid I remember being like oh okay wait a minute I actually think I remember you being a bit of a lifeline like I felt a bit out of place in that world and I already knew you and that was very comforting yeah and were you like always a Bradley Cooper or something I don't have a memory of that I would bring him around a bunch yeah yeah yeah yeah we came to the Halloween party he was Magnum P.I. but were you still dating her at this time that was right when we broke up yeah we had yeah broke up right before that party but were you friends with Kate before you guys dated then I was friends with Oliver that's even how I what happened was I was friends with Oliver I fucking adore Oliver I was at his house one night playing poker and she came and played and she was still with Chris I gave her a hundred and eleven percent of any charm I have right Dax was obsessed with Kate as like a young I just thought she was so fucking beautiful and I loved Almost Famous and I was like oh my god I can't believe she's here and I just gave her everything I had in the reserve tank she got and she received it she did I remember leaving going like well that's as good of a job as one can do I mean she's married who cares but that was a great first showing I just had a crush on her and then they separated then I got invited to have you know Steve Brill of course yeah so Brill invited me to dinner in Malibu and I went and she was there and she's now single I'm like let's see if we can fucking muster up this magic and get it going again and then I got it going again and then from that night on we were just together every single day I'm confused on the timeline because when I met you it was at Kate's house you remember at a party I remember it very clearly oh I've you don't remember but that's okay because you were with your girlfriend oh yeah yeah Bri Bri and you well I don't know if you want me to say this part but you guys were basically educating me on an open relationship I've talked about this all the time and I interviewed Bri on the show okay so I had like a long conversation I was 19 or something and I was like very like what the fuck are these two doing I was just out of my depth at those parties because I was the little sister and I hadn't really found my place yet and so we had a long conversation sitting on a couch where you guys were basically just telling me like monogamy isn't a real thing and like it doesn't it's not it doesn't make any sense and this is the thing that works and I had a million questions like what about getting jealous or what are this and you guys were really selling me on it and I was kind of like so is this what I have to do to like win a happy relationship she became a lesbian immediately after so Dax is very meaningful to you in your life wow okay I'm embarrassed to admit I don't remember that no I'm really embarrassed to admit that okay and then when you and Kate broke up you and I like lost contact we started well I live on the east side you live no I know but like I feel like I went like a long period of time till nobody wants this till that's literally your best friend I know and I remember when Kristen got cast and everything I remember saying Aaron I'm very close with Dax she got territorial again I was like no I was like all over again I was like I'm so flattered I'll make a call I think even something like when we met or something so I was like did he mention that we're like literally friends and I'm like no yeah and I remember being like I'm confused this is she wasn't getting like the respect she wanted I definitely told Kristen I'm like oh this is so exciting I know Sarah I'm telling you the truth I've yet to lie I've had to admit that I didn't remember that conversation I would be honest you said to me yesterday too we met you're like you know I like know Dax so it's like I know I know I do know that it's like a compulsion could it be more flatter that you're doing that that makes me very happy I mean I don't know that we really have the show we'll have the full cast on the same week right the cast came on already yeah yeah we had them together on Wednesday yeah Monday we had all of them the four of them four of them how does that go like is everyone talking over each other well that was scary but it was great yeah all four of them together yeah wow and Adam sat there we had to put a chair there it was great one thing I want to know is I can tell you I've been with Kristen 19 years I've seen her have lots of different successes you can't get bigger than Frozen the Good Place was enormous when that show came out I was like oh my god I can't wait to see her again I can't wait to see her again we were in New York and it was probably had been out for maybe three or four weeks and like we went to go see a show somewhere and it was untenable just walking to the theater being at the theater being in line oh my god I thought I knew what level she couldn't get more famous in your head yeah I said to her I'm like I'm gonna start meeting you places like I can't I can't live like this like I can't we can't talk to a hundred percent of the people we see on the street in New York City that's crazy so I just know even from our perspective where we've already had a good dose of it it was crazy and I want to know what it what did that feel like for you guys to have your first TV show and for this to be like a cultural phenomenon it was so wild how were you digesting that it was crazy but also you know I had had a lot of failed shows I'd written so it wasn't like I want to write a show and then that shows a hit you probably had modest expectations Barely Famous was our first show we ever got on the air and it was on the wrong network and nobody saw it at the time and so I was like I want to write a show and then that shows a hit and then I don't know if you would say it's a failure or not but it certainly wasn't like it seriously shopping it around she might have found a home for it on a streamer I mean Netflix should put it on but then between that year 2016 and then when the show came out 2024 that's a long time of me writing shows that aren't making it on the air so making pilots filming pilots no one's seeing them became the creative directors of Bumble in between all this like we took a job at a tech company like a thing as a writer that you can actually have a really good living never getting anything on the air you can write things people buy them you sell a show keeps inching up a little bit even though nothing's getting made i was kind of comfortable with the idea that i was even in the game at all yeah that still felt like a really big win to me because i still felt like the person that's psyched to have the card to get on the paramount lot so anytime i made something and it didn't get picked up unlike sarah who has a hard time with things ending i have radical acceptance at all times i'm like keep it moving and that really is the life of a writer at least in tv or in film you're making something you're spending a year of your life on it you're writing it you're adjusting it you're making changes and then one day they say no thanks it is dead they own it now yeah yeah and it is on the shelf and they don't want it so they can't that's it so i don't think about it again imagine all the good material getting dust on shelves that no one will never see and so with this show it was like the ninth pitch and everyone had said no and so i again was very much like okay great let's just let this thing die already like everyone's saying no i've spent a really long time trying to write this pilot it was a really hard one for me to write because it was really personal and according to the new york times or la times whatever article i read you were at a point too where you're like i don't think i can write anymore yeah it had not happened for so long yeah and i was getting married and i was 37 and i wanted to be a mom and i'm like what am i chasing you know what is this thing i'm doing like i don't think i i want this to be my story trying to make something happen that's not going to happen i'd rather pivot to something that is loving me back and writing was always i weirdly always had open doors like people always wanted me to give them something which felt like a big win everyone loved your options but they weren't getting to the next step you couldn't get past the finish line i couldn't get past the finish line and i was getting a lot of the same feedback which was like we love your writing we love the dialogue it doesn't feel like feel big. It's like not enough is happening. So am I supposed to like write a cop show? I just didn't really know how to still be me and get it over the finish line. And that was not something I wanted to be in the battle of for my whole life. So I was now in a very content place in my life, in my personal life. Everything had calmed down and I was really happy and I didn't feel that need anymore to chase it. We had a fashion brand. Sam just jumps in with all the random shit. Well, I'm trying to like, but I mean, the audience should know that you had also found love. Now you have like a business for the first time in your life. Yeah, Favorite Daughter was like a really fun distraction. Sorry, that's a pretty important part of the fucking story. Perhaps the most important. Yeah. No, Favorite Daughter was a very, very fun distraction because it was also doing well. It was in a lot of ways, low stakes because that wasn't my dream. It wasn't your identity. Yes, that was not my identity. So it was. It was a really fun thing to really put my energy into. But then my manager, Ollie, again, called me one day and he was like, hey, can I get a discount code for that Bolin branch I heard on the podcast? And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Foster 15. And he was like, wow, you really? This is going to sound mean. He goes, you really took the loser path in life, huh? I go, what? He's like, I'm just kidding. But you know, it's like, you're a writer, you don't write. And you're just like selling sheets. And I wanted to die. Yeah. I was like, wait, what do you mean? I am writing. I still, I have that thing. He's like, you're not writing, you're not doing it. You know, that's what you're meant to do. And it lit a fire in me. First of all, I was so mad at him and so hurt and so embarrassed. And I remember telling Simon that he had just said that. So I was like, what did you just fucking say to you? You can't say that to me. But I knew that it hit a nerve for a reason and I was just really avoiding writing this pilot because I was so scared of the consequences in my relationship. I had only ever written as a single person where I don't have to answer to anyone in terms of what I'm sharing. Yeah. And I was marrying into this immigrant family who are hyper secretive about everything. And I'm about to sort of make a, not make fun of them, but like make light. Make entertainment out of them. Yes. And I was really scared that I'm going to fuck up the first great healthy relationship I've ever been in. Yeah, yeah. By exploiting it for this other dream. I was supposed to have been at peace with letting go. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was in real conflict. Yeah. And so I wanted to tank it. No, no, like actually tank it. She's like, we're not pitching. You did not want to pitch Netflix. Did you talk to Simon about it? Did he put you at ease? Yeah, he was kind of like, I agree with you. This is risky. She was happy when everyone was passing, like Amazon, Apple, NBC. She was thrilled. Yeah. She was like. It's a headache. You don't have to have it. Because then it's like, I wanted to do it, but they won't say yes. Yeah. And then one day Simon was like, I think you should call my dad and tell him that you're making the show or not making it yet, but like that you wrote this thing and just see what he says. And so I said, Anatoly, I'm going to talk to you. I wrote this show and it's a script and you can read it if you want to. And I'm sure it won't go anywhere. And blah, blah, blah. And I was so scared. And he goes, Aaron, this is really exciting. Okay. I just have one request. Don't make us look poor. Oh. Incredible. Make us look rich. Yeah, yeah. Incredible. Guess what? And I said, okay. I can totally do that. Easiest note you'll get in the whole project. And he was so excited and supportive. And that was when Simon even realized that he was protecting them a lot in ways that he thought he was supposed to as a good son of immigrants. And like, that's what you're built to do. Russian immigrants. We've talked about this. Immigrant culture is very similar across different backgrounds. Yeah, yeah. And so he had that thing instilled in him that it's like a betrayal to his family. It's your job to protect them. Yes. When you're the American kid. And it turned out they didn't want to be protected. They like success. Yeah. They want to see their children thriving. Yes. And their daughter-in-law to have a hit show. Come on. Exactly. Yeah. They're going to tell their friends about it. That's exciting. And that's what it ended up being. And it freed me. And then I was able to actually write it in a way that I enjoyed and not tank it. So when it hit, it was a lot leading up to that. And I never, ever saw that coming. I could not have imagined. No, on set, even on set, you were like, no one could have imagined. I remember I watched all episodes back to back and came to set one day. And I go, fucking works. Yeah. It fucking works. I remember like it was yesterday. And you were like, I don't know. And I was like, it fucking works. And season one's called Complicated. It was a tough time. And I was pregnant the whole time. I was the husband. You were the husband, you know. God, but season one. It was hard. Yeah, it was hard. It was though. It ended up hurting. It was a hard time. But then you can't tell. No, it turned into something so great. Yeah. I'm with Aaron, my best friend Aaron. We're in my bus in Texas. Not me, a different person. Okay. Me. His best friend's Sarah. Yeah. Get it right. Get it straight. Yeah, Aaron Weekly. Sorry, best friend Aaron Weekly. And we're in my bus in Texas and I'm like, okay, this show's out. Let's watch it. And the two of us are watching this and when they kiss for the first time, we screamed. We're like, oh my God. I go, that's the best kiss I've ever fucking seen. You hadn't seen it? You saw nothing? No, I hadn't seen that. I saw it when it came out. But I was just happened to leave on this bus trip right when it came out. So then we watched it and Aaron's like, oh my God, has she ever kissed you like that? No. I don't think I've ever been kissed like that. Like, we rewound it. We watched it like five times and that was when I was like, oh yeah, this thing's gonna be a fucking juggernaut. If I'm the husband rewinding to watch this fucking chemistry and the way it shot, like, yeah, this is gonna fucking work. But I don't think we knew when we were making it, you know? By the way, you never fucking know. It's not unique to this show. It's like, you shoot a pilot, sometimes you think, oh, this is a hit and it's not. And then sometimes you're like, I don't know. And then it is. There's no fucking way. The magic of the zeitgeist. Why on earth? Again, that show, it was so fucking weird. I'm going to see my older Jewish doctors in Beverly Hills and every one of them is talking my fucking ear off about my wife's show. And I'm like, you're a 70-year-old dude and you fucking. And then there's a 12-year-old girl. You know, it's just like, I've never seen a range of people consume a show like that. Still can't totally explain it logically. I think I have theories. I think a lot of the things we love the most are really wish fulfillment. And I think to see a woman in her 40s being Kristen, have this totally swept up in love moment is so life-affirming and like wish fulfillment-y. I think that's part of it. And that the relationship is good. Even though, obviously, there's a huge hurdle. Yeah. But the actual relationship you're seeing is very healthy and aspirational and good. And I brought this up with the cast. I said, I think part of the reason the show. is so compelling is your actual relationship. Your love for Simon and your respect for him. You see in that Adam-Kristen couple, Joanne and Noah couple, so clearly. And it's you guys. It's terra firma. It's lovely. Bedrock. It's bedrock. It is. It's angered in bedrock. It's angered in something real. It's very romantic, but also, it's not dramatic. It's very healthy. And I think that usually you think you get one, and I really like the idea of showing both because that's what we all want. Yes. I mean, maybe it's not what everyone wants, but it's what you should want. Yeah. You should want to be swept off your feet with someone who's gonna still be there in the morning and not play games with you. Yeah. But I think it's true. Like, you can't say it about yourself, but I think there are a few voices that can just make us feel all those things and laugh. Like, Anansi Myers. She hates it when I say it. But, like, it is that. That combined with Kristen. She's a comedic assassin. She really is. No, no. It's true. It's truly, like, I knew she was, but when you're on set watching her, you're just like, oh, this is why I didn't make it as an actress. She's like a robot when you can tangle with Julia Louise Dreyfuss. It's crazy. She can do every single thing. We call her an acting robot. No, no. She's like AI. Like, it doesn't fucking make sense. You give her one note and it's perfect. It's like, it makes no sense. I've had to edit her many times in things. Couldn't be easier. She's holding the jar here in this shot. It's crazy. And you're like, how are you giving that performance and also your continuity is absolutely perfect. But how is she trained? Is she like, what's her training? Oh, yeah. She's been acting since she was a kid. She went to NYU to teach for a theater. But you could say, like, I think it's like, I want you to be a little bit more, like, anxious about it. And she'll be like, 15% or, like, 70%? And I'm like, uh, 15? Great, I'll give you 15%. Let's start there. I'm like, what a psycho. Okay. Great, that is actually what I wanted. Yeah, and when I've directed her and I know those days are her, I'm like, oh, fucking easiest day. Every day on this shoot that's got her in it. I'm like, well, that's, I don't even think about that day. By the way, if she said no, who knows if there would even be a show? Because I think for Netflix, they bought it kind of going, this is for Kristen Bell or nobody. It's true. This is for Kristen Bell because she wrote it for her. She wrote it for her and I. I did. I was going to be the sister. I mean, not her and I, but I was maybe going to be the sister, but she was Joanne. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? And Netflix was like, no, thank you. So we do have this girl who seems to be working quite well on the streamer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're like, she does this. We wouldn't mind sticking with her. Yeah. But Erin's on this season and she's fantastic. Yes, I am on this season in one episode. I was on set that day, weirdly. Yes, you were on set. That was one of the days and I had not researched you yet, so I didn't even know you had acted. And I said to Kristen, fucking A, she's fucking really great. So funny. So funny. It was really scary, but Kristen was awesome and Adam was great. Like, shepherded me along and I said, I needed them to be like my acting coaches because I was really nervous because now this is the third year we were doing the show. I knew what I was up against and I also know I'm usually the person sitting in Video Village where if someone is not getting it right, you're like, oh my God, babe, do your job. Like, hello, we all want to go home. Yeah. And now I'm like, what if I'm that person who can't remember her lines? That's why acting's hard. I was so scared. It's so scary. Acting fucking sucks. Yeah. It was really fun, but I certainly don't want to pursue that career anymore. Anyway, it's been incredible. I'd like to see her in season four. You want to see Nicole? Yeah, I want to see her. Yeah, I want to see, like, maybe you have broken up the sister's wedding or marriage. Okay. Yeah. Let's see what that train wreck looks like. Well, you want to know something funny. We've been writing you into this season. Oh, you have? Yeah. Would you say yes? I was watching season three, which I love. Okay. And I jokingly said, who was I watching with? I think best friend Aaron Weakley. And I was like, you know what? Really with this guy? I think season four should I come in and fuck this whole perfect party up. Uh-huh. We have an idea that was formed a few weeks ago. We put your name on the board thinking about it. And then today we were in the room and this idea for you actually pivoted and switched into something bigger. And then what we said was, well, let's ask him how many episodes he would actually want to be in before we make this choice. Yeah, yeah. Because it's not like you have to be there all season or anything, but it would be, like, pivotal. Yeah. And an important role. We felt like it would be a very fun, interesting thing to do. You know, it's funny. If you had asked me last year, I would have said no because I had not acted in season three. And I was very happy to not act. And then Bill Lawrence was in here. Uh-huh. And he said, like, I'm going to make you act on one of my shows. I'm like, I don't really want to do it. And he said, what if every scene's with Vince? And I was like. I'll do that. Yeah, I've always wanted to do that. i just did this and i loved it i ended that experience i was like i'm more open to that than i thought okay so we're catching you at the right time saying why haven't the podcast worlds collided like that wait on a plot the girls go on your podcast or like yeah podcast cutting you out of this process i do think the podcast we need to see more of the podcast in i love aspirational comedy i'm like we need to see some career wins one of my thoughts when i was seeing early stuff is i was like i need to know why people recognize these girls when they go out in public i need to know what they're talking about i need to know what the fans like about it i have wanted famous podcast yeah i've wanted that yeah minimally you could consult me i know we've had a hard time in the writer's room having the podcast be an interesting engine we you were using it more season one to tell the story to show who they are yeah so my idea you're right sitting and watching people talk is limited but i thought the way to tackle it is like it's all about when you guys are out in public like what we could be learning about you from the fans is the way to keep that dynamic and you get it with nicole yeah by the way i play a fan of the podcast yeah yeah yeah which is great and in the first season when it was clear that he was sort of uncomfortable with you guys talking about sex like that was helpful yeah good that was good and that's a real thing it's a real thing like what you're talking about on here and it's totally there are times on our podcast where i'll say everyone listening do not dm simon about this don't mention anything if you see him out in the world like just let this one go no i don't need to hear about the best thing in the world is that kristen does not listen to the show at all it's like we could use her and it would be more stressful if she did but would she be upset she feels like she doesn't get upset but it just would be more stressful do you guys ever fight you guys to me feel like i could not and i obviously know you better than i know her kind of you know what i mean but i don't know like a lot about your guys relates you guys are very private i feel like you guys are a couple that just get along really well again 19 fucking years and i think we're pretty good at handling our shit we have a lot of shit though yeah of course yeah we have two children and they are going through puberty and that stressor is it throws the whole dynamic into a new zone that you have to figure out okay how do we now now navigate this you know i think it's really hard when they're really little because you care so much about the decisions you're making with the kid you're certain you can fuck it up it gets harder exactly so it's like you're butting heads about how you think this should be done which is stressful if both people care a lot which we did and then there's a sweet spot right between like six and puberty you're like this is working out pretty good i think this compromise however we're doing is working and then a whole new situation comes and you're like fuck well now we need a new strategy and i don't know that we always agree and then there's more stress and then i like the thing if we didn't have kids it would be pretty smooth sailing but i think the kids thing definitely yeah but we don't scream at each other or swear at each other you never scream no i'm very large in my house and i have to really be mindful of that i just talk loud even how the level i talk is like it's hard for me to remember oh i'm much bigger than everyone we're all talking at the same volume i think but it's different coming from right you're like i won't go we won't go to bed in a fight yeah i mean we'll go to bed for sure for like we'll kick something down and we'll go to bed for sure for like we'll kick something down and we'll go to bed for sure down the road for a week we'll go to bed for a week where it's like we're gonna have to talk about this eventually you know what day will that be when will there be enough free air in the fucking room without the kids to mount this also when is it fun to bring it up exactly and that's like you might have a reprieve from whatever kid stuff you're doing and you're like we want to use this tiny reprieve to address that i guess we have to so certainly there's like four or five nights in a row you're like there's a talk looming you know there'll be a sitting down it's a long time yeah it's great well you guys are fantastic i'm so glad we had you on this was so fucking fun really fun yes we're all real friends now we over deliver or under deliver i say over big time she's like she's worried she always goes over well i also did that a little on purpose because i you know because i knew it was expected thank you guys sincerely you guys are so fucking fun thank you so many people are envious of how tight you guys are as siblings that was the real that's the real draw of the podcast that's what i realized when i was like why can't i stop listening i was like oh it's their relationship and i'm jealous of it again that's the wish fulfillment aspirational thing yeah because it's rare you just can't get it any other way sisters and the way you guys grew up and all of it there's no other way to it's like blood harmonies the joy of it is and i do think this is why people should definitely have siblings is like your fucking siblings tell you the goddamn truth we're so mean to each other's siblings and yet we're closer and we love each other more and it works yeah when i first started listening i was like they're so mean what but then i was like oh but it's because they're so safe yeah yeah if you come downstairs in the morning you've got a zit my brother's gonna be like fuck me that's fucking you know like he's gonna let it rip oh yeah we say the craziest things to each other but then but we laugh exactly she says the most offensive things to me and i'm just like they're all true it's because you have true security exactly which is like you can only get it in a permanent relationship yeah yeah really lovely love you guys thanks for having us he is an armchair expert but he makes mistakes all the time thank god monica's here she's gotta let him have the facts are you wearing those boots specifically because you were anticipating deep water yeah i wore them yesterday and i definitely encountered lots of water i was wearing low top converse chuck all-stars yesterday and i too encountered deep water which is not a good match no that's flooding yeah um but i knew we were gonna have rain again today so i wore them but it seems like maybe the rain is done your fingers crossed my fingers are crossed i hate rain yeah i'm enjoying it i knew it you knew a lot of people enjoy it i understand that yeah i don't i don't understand it you don't feel but i respect it yeah and i'll actually understand it but emotionally you can't find your way in can't can't do it yeah it's so cloudy but the clouds are like silver in there they look like paintings and the sun is breaking through sometimes well when the sun's breaking through i like that yeah i just the walk to school today with delta was just transcendent it was so crisp and and i thought oh this is what people in seattle experience every morning if they walk to school could never live there you couldn't do it just absolutely never live there it's one this is kind of like no i shouldn't make that comparison oh are you gonna say i can't okay like um you were gonna say like sarajevo during the war no okay worse like like if i didn't have like if i didn't have a leg uh-huh which is fine if you don't yeah yeah but if i didn't and then you were just like talking about how much i love running yeah yeah it's like that because i do have a disease it's called sad sad disease do you know how many other people it affects in the country have you ever looked that up let's look it up i'm wearing compression socks today oh they go all the way up to my knees like stockings i finally know what it's like to be why are you doing that because i assume like most people i hate leg day oh and so recently i've been like you know what we need to eventize like day like panay does like i need a specific outfit i wear for like days and so yeah look at these yeah they're tall socks they're compress and i put those on they're absurd and i go oh this must be time to and then i feel like it has more support which is probably not even true i want i'm well it's compressed is it good for working out because then isn't it like it'd be good or bad it gets me to do it i bet that part's good well sure but like what if it's compressing the blood i should lower them now that i that should do it oh just in a quick just easy oh wow seasonal affective disorder affects approximately five percent of adults in the united states in any given year that's a small group and also big that's also 15 million people i know but it's a small percentage that i'm in it's a small club i wonder if they all live in arizona or california they should exactly oh wow women are affected at rates four times higher than men it says beyond clinical sad an estimated 14 to 41 of adults experience milder forms of seasonal mood change or winter blues yeah well i mean look i think uh sun has a pretty uh well studied uh effect on mood sure and hormones of course so you're supposed to look at the sun in the morning yes i was thinking about that's a nice you know so many things about children are counterintuitive virtually none of the stuff do you want to do yeah you don't want to run around town and like drop kids off and pick them up girl doll store birthday parties yeah ding ding ding but i will say lately i've been better at reframing it all because the end is in sight and that terrifies me so i'm kind of like yeah one day no one's gonna want me to walk them to school but you know i'm not always dying to rush out the door to walk to school but um a we don't and i always have a fun time talking there's a man who lives but right by the school on the sidewalk who daily there's something exciting for us to witness so that's that's one little chapter of the walk uh but then on the walk back i am walking directly into the sun rising this time of year right it's like a direct shot at my my eyes but it's low enough that it doesn't hurt and i'm like oh this is what they tell you to do which i would never wake up and go sit outside and stare at the sun for 20 minutes like huberman yeah i was gonna say i feel like we tried that for a little bit after we had huberman yeah this is huberman's like main thrust for hell to like synchronize your circadian rhythm and i think up your supposed to up your cortisol in the morning all this shit all to say i'm never cortisol that's bad no cortisol is good too much cortisol in the wrong time is is not good but you peak cortisol in the day there's a lot of stuff about energy okay i can't imagine bracketing in 20 minutes of sitting first thing in the especially after i've already meditated i was about to say i mean you do i would just start feeling like when are we gonna start my day like crying crying out loud we went up for two hours or can you be like reading i think you're supposed to be looking pretty much at the sun i thought your body was just you needing to soak it no specifically activated in your eyes oh okay yeah like if you wore an eye mask and sat in front of the sun no bueno but it's also probably not i think you're also supposed to look at the evening sun that tells your body it's time to go nighties soon time yeah i'm not doing that but that walk um and then last night we went out to cafe 101 oh nice yeah did you get a grilled cheese because it was raining the girls both got grilled cheeses and i am so impressed with delta i can't imagine having the willpower at 11 years old she has quit eating cheese that's right and dairy i forgot because she gets really stuffed up like i do yeah but like what 11 year old's gonna have the willpower to turn down macaroni and cheese and grilled cheese and stuff so good but god bless her she so she just got the fake cheese grilled cheese they have that they have a fake cheese grilled cheese and she's like it's not as good yeah but it's good okay it's kind of like me i mean i'm sitting there eating a burger with no cheese and no bun right we're all a mess yeah you're but i'm fucking 51 and i can do it barely so anyways i'm just really impressed with that is impressive i was that's really funny it's also sim it's soulmates which is at a different location i was working i'm not gonna say the location because just met me and nope and it wasn't wasps it was mosquitoes um just met me and we uh both you know of course like gotta be in our bonnet thinking about about wanting a grilled cheese oh uh-huh and the place we were at doesn't have that yeah then we were saying it to our server who we kind of know they were just like oh i really want to grill cheese and he was like i bet we could probably have that made yeah they must have enough and we were like no no no no but they did it it felt like we were kings yeah just like you say you want something and it appears because you're loyal customers we're loyal customers this is where it pays off i mean and we were like charge us a hundred dollars i guess yeah you know it was really nice but um i also you know then it's like i wanted the i wanted tomato soup they i wasn't gonna expect you think you could whip up a tomato soup i know but this weather does call for such yeah do you are you gonna get one today i might yeah now that we're talking about it maybe i'll get it for lunch yeah um but after the meal together at cafe 101 we bought rummy cube that was fun fun and then delta wanted to go to target to get socks oh is that where you got your compression no i had gotten these previously okay but i don't want to go to target you know i don't like going to stores you gotta park it's la and i'm like fuck i gotta go to target again i don't want to go to target but i'm gonna go to target and right before we get to target we're at the intersection about to pull into target and delta goes when does target end and i go presumably when they go out of business and she goes no when do they end she was being belligerent she something about that fake grilled cheese she got herself in a belligerent mood it was very funny and i go do you mean when does it close yeah she's like yeah when does it end and i go no those are not interchangeable oh you were getting this funny we got into a fun debate about that okay i ended up once we got to the register i asked the guy sir when do you guys end yeah then she'd make her happy she liked that yeah um also um i was feeling right really rambunctious because i didn't want to be there so i was running like i was gonna clear the shelves and trash the place oh my god yeah and then lincoln was saying if she ever had eternal disease that's her last wish in life is to run through target with her arms out and pull everything off the show anyway all to say we had a fucking blast sounds like it's such a blast and um and then because kristen's out of town for a week i've been going to bed with them at nine o'clock that's nice you're getting too much sleep it's probably why you're acting crazy no i can't that means i wake up at 4 50 in the morning so i've been waking up at 5 a.m all week yeah but again i'm like yeah i don't want to do this but i gotta say i like having all that time before they get up what do you do what do my all my stuff yeah but then there's more hours yeah just i don't know what i do but i'm never i'm not in a rush i'm very ready to walk to school i'll tell you yeah that's good yeah but i just journaling about it i'm like all this stuff is so counterintuitive it's just like it's just a lineup all week of things running around doing a lot of stuff that i would not choose to do yep and in the morning i like myself love it i had the opposite experience i woke up to like a bunch of texts on a group chat i'm on with two other girls and there's so many you know there's so many and i'm reading all of them and then at one point someone was like i guess monica sleeps in okay all right okay it all kicked off early in the morning i guess early in quotes was probably like regular time what time did you wake up i bet with this weather you can go i mean i woke up at 8 30 okay and i i yes i could have slept till now yeah i think i could sleep all day all day yeah if i didn't have things i don't think so i think it's just like cozy yeah just so cozy pop on a little telly and drift in and out or no telly at all no yeah in and out and then you know it's like i can check i can like check instagram and then go back to sleep and then play wordle and then go back to sleep i could just stay there yeah that sounds nice i mean i've never done it but one day i want to do it yeah you should do it i'm gonna schedule it on my cal i mean yeah i guess the fear is like oh my god is that depression you just like don't want to get out of bed but it's it's not like oh the day like it's not that it's not a feeling of insurmountable now it's just like it's just nice here i'm tired yeah it feels nice in here i have nice bedding i have an eight sleep so i can set the temp yeah which is nice you run more you run it warm or cold i so you're supposed to run it cold it's like good for your sleep yeah and in the summer i was doing that but then recently i've been making it warm like what's up well they don't have it's like it's like negative i don't oh i don't think you do like plus one plus two no i don't know i live there so how would i know god that is obviously my greatest fear yeah someone's gonna come in there to you know perform a sexual act uh-huh and then they're gonna be like too musty what is too humid in here what is the smell in here i'm like oh ding ding ding to i have a pet it's just he or she's not here right now she hides but she stinks it's an iguana that's sim you said that why the movie oh i don't want to know i know i mean it's not it's actually not like i'm really upset i was gonna see it tomorrow i bought tickets now and then kristin sent a screen grab from new york saying sunday she had gotten tickets so i gotta wait more that's a lot of days it is a lot of days and i'm so afraid someone's gonna tell you um you can see everything is that what it's called you can see everything yeah you can see everything that's what we're referencing yes yeah so i'm really nervous i'm gonna learn stuff for you because there are some spoilers yeah i don't want to know and i it's gonna be hard to wait stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare would you ever consider doing lying if if if no not lying but i did do the analysis well am i willing to just sit through it again yeah like could you tell because it's three hours and i don't know what kind of movie it is i'm just i was too afraid to commit to that yeah i understand now there are movies like had i seen barbie early i could have seen it two days later no problem uh fall guy yeah list goes on but this type of movie i'm not sure if i want to see it again two days later i know i'm debating that too do you want to see it again i can't decide you want to go tomorrow uh my parents are going to be in town so i can't i do want to see it again but i'm i am like god it's it's three hours yeah yeah do i want to do that again and the shot and like the although i'm sure i'll get new things out of it right which would be interesting right how long are your folks staying they're here like almost a week oh fun i think they're gonna be a little depressed when they get here because they normally spend their weekends with me with fizzy oh you're a little nervous so it's like oh god i'm not gonna be they spend the entire weekend facetime they will they will even speaking of fizzy yeah he's i met a lazzy oh yeah i went to all time yesterday two days ago by myself and when i walked in there was the cutest little baby boy he was five months old and i asked the mom if i could chat with her friend and we spent some time hanging his name was lazareth oh isn't that cute lazarus or lazarus lazareth oh isn't that cute he probably would go by lazzy he should lazzy and fizzy they give virtually the same age yes similar ages he's looking real cute my brothers sent us this most recent pick i think it was monday or tuesday um and my dad said he looks bigger than when i saw him on this week on saturday and i was like doing the math and i was like two days ago you guys are nuts they're in baby land it's so cute it's so cute i think i am also jealous like i'm jealous that i don't get to see him every weekend like i don't get to do that yeah and be like oh he's bigger because like of course he's bigger every time i see him yeah he's gonna be a grown-up when i see him at christmas i hope he can talk by then i don't think as smart as he is i doubt i'm gonna teach him some words he's also a boy which means i just have visions of me like he's gonna be a boy teaching him words and like like nice words like vocab words yeah um and then people like how did you why are you such a literary genius yeah and then like oh my aunt you know when i was four months old she taught me prima facie all the words you hate that i say you're secretly teaching fizzy uh it's funny you'd say that that is one of my favorite parts of of our daughters is they have banging vocabulary and they're not like doing it show-offy it's just very organic and they get me a few i'm like god i can't i didn't learn to use that word to like 34 you know a lot of those situations well that's i mean reading is important they read a lot well just they're being talked to yeah but both i think both there's like my vocabulary was so much better when i was reading was it yeah and i don't read anymore um ding ding ding friend of the pod lauren graham friend of the pod and friend of this is crazy you're saying her name yes she texted me she did yes because she um she texted me because of my pumpkin display okay i this weekend went on her big pumpkin mission with jess we went to two different locations patches no patches i wanted to go to a patch but you got to go out to sunland for that yeah i felt far away or beverly hills mr. jones is do they are they still doing that well that's still a parking lot i'm saying you can go up to 14 in like uh aqua dolce and shit and they have real patches grow them not doing that we went to trader joe's and then we went to albertson's another a grocery store but it was also so you know we're we're almost at halloween so some of these pumpkins have been there a minute sure and but we're we need good ones we have to figure out do we get a big one like you know where are they going to be placed we're gonna need a big one here mediums we're figuring all this out there's a lot of math yeah to making your pumpkin scape uh-huh and he picked up one and i and i saw this happening slow motion as he's picking up one his hand is like going inside the pumpkin because it was all mushy and it was and i was like jess and then and he was he was realizing that armchair anonymous the leg yeah yeah yeah yeah it was it was so it was like it was a very visceral experience he did get over it quick yeah he's good like that um and uh he made me buy a warty pumpkin okay that's not my normal pick i know um and he was like i i i think you charlie brown christmas tree style it needed love yeah he was like it's we need well he's just drawn he just like likes them you know and i was like fuck it i don't know i don't mind i guess we can get one um and so we did and you know we made sure to unpack her last okay so the rest of the siblings warts well we wanted to talk to them first okay and just say don't call this out yeah she knows she has warts everywhere listen we just like we're a family should i bring my high factor 2000 over oh my god you're gonna be there can we clean that up i can have those gone in a under an hour it's who she is okay so we have to just clean that up okay so we have to just accept it but um i you know talk we talked to the other pets and just said like hey just you know be nice yeah be kind be kind and this is part of the she's part of the family yeah um and then just brought her out okay here she is and then he did place her in a little bit of a separate area so she can first or why we're supposed to be treating her like i know that's what i said but he said she's not ready okay so she put her in a little wheelchair i mean it and now she is becoming a she has a little bit of like a victim mentality sure how is she not i know it's tricky but it's funny you'd say lauren graham texts you yeah because we were at our restaurant last night and i've known this server for four years she's worked there we're there non-stop yeah so i know her well yes and i don't know why this didn't occur to me for three or four years but she's standing at the register and i go oh my god she looks identical to lauren graham oh and then she came over to the table and i said um do you get told you look like lauren graham and she said yeah i do oh and i said well i hope you know it's a huge compliment she's my sister and i love her yeah and she goes oh i know she's your sister i've i cried for six years straight yeah i'm not surprised yeah and um and then it made me really think of lauren and then lauren never comes up on my feed i don't know she doesn't post much and then i saw lauren thinking i must connect with lauren and now you bring her up right now the world is telling you you're supposed to see her um she's the best she lives in the neighborhood and so she i saw her the other day leaving and we were chit-chatting and um we're gonna have wine soon oh fun fun fun fun she's a nice nice lady all right well want to do some facts yeah let's do some facts let's see some facts this is for aaron and sarah i loved them that was a lot of fun i love you guys i love you it was so much fun it was i could have those gals on once a month they're my best friends they're your best parasocial friends and um yeah i didn't text aaron after i was like kind of hoping she would text me you know and be like hey not her style hey that was so great thanks for having us um when do you want to hang out next yeah you know yeah yeah um and then i'm just still waiting for that do you think you want it more from her because it seems hard to get yeah yeah i almost brought that up in the episode but i was like but maybe i shouldn't i was like you know aaron is she is she's she is hard to get and she played and she's a great has a great text game but then she'll like ignore you you know yeah good poker face yeah and it's just like you're running in circles just like a guy you're dating and like unavailable they're unavailable until you want them yeah but what i wanted to tell her is like that's where i am with you right now oh but you should know something about me okay i always do get in there uh-huh sure i always do you're like wd-40 i always get in there and then guess what i'm your harshest critic that's the good news once once you do let me in i'm gonna those roles reverse and i know that about myself and i'm waiting for the day you can't wait to have her running in she will be this way would you agree that's a pattern go ahead say the truth it's the pattern so you're saying the pattern is false advertising it's not false it's real but this is what happens then i get to really know a person yeah and the the glitter is completely gone like that never stays yeah it's good because it's real like then the relationship is real but i have no like flu flus around people i know well and i think i become my very true self in in a in a relationship that is true and i want you to be your true self but i would argue you should start with your true self because i will say being being on the end of it there are times when i think back of the person i met and the person i know and i'm like oh those are much different people go on well you would want like when you meet someone and you you're attracted to them and you want to become friends with them it's because of how they're presenting yeah and then if they do a 180 on you okay you're a little bit like wait what happened to the person that i well it's initiated a friendship false advertising it's who i am in the moment it's who i am it's how i'm feeling about the person in front of me in the moment it's just it's not i'm not making up that i like no you organically change yeah i i'm not making up that i like her i'm not making up that i like her i'm not changing i would say like most people do when they really know someone well or maybe they don't but i do i i get more comfortable uh-huh and i think when i'm most comfortable is when people like me but you're saying the opposite you're saying what i presented to you was something you liked and then i i turned you were happier chipperier you know that's fine i love who you are it's different it's different than who i'm at okay you're the one who just brought this up i'm telling you from the inside of it it is like oh there's this is a these are different people to some degree well don't you think our relationship has changed since i first met you oh yeah but even like yes a lot has happened that changes the dynamic when things happen you look this is dangerous you you told me how you are which is you start one way and then it turns that's what you just started it with yeah and then you asked me what that feels like i didn't but what did you ask me i said would you agree that i come in and flip it but i was saying which which i guess the answer is no from your perspective but i was saying would you agree that when it turns the the approval changes that then the approval goes in the opposite direction but you're saying no so it's just fine no way you're um the approval goes in the opposite direction i'm seeking aaron's approval and then it'll turn at some point she'll be seeking your yeah and so do i think aaron will enjoy that it's not it's not for her to enjoy or not enjoy it's you were just asking do i agree that that's the pattern that you were asking do i agree that's the yes that's what i was asking yes i do but anyway okay so i did not text her um i'm waiting for her to text me we'll see how that goes um okay the average height nationally the average height for adult men in the united states is five feet nine inches and the average height for adult women is five feet four inches my mom nailed it isn't it funny guys feel so less than if they're not six foot that's what every guy is trying to lie and say they're six foot yeah but it's like way above lying and say they're five nine yeah exactly how many podcasts currently exist 3.8 to 4.7 million worldwide registered shows across major directories it's actually lower than i thought there had to have been some fall off after the boom happened for sure like everyone i knew was starting one and then not everyone stuck with it yeah still that's a lot 4.7 i mean it's a ton imagine if there was 4.7 million television shows i know i mean it's crazy yeah it says roughly 619 million people listen to podcasts worldwide okay so we have a lot we have a lot of room for growth um who gave out dr mike's sexiest doctor award people magazine okay did buzzfeed also maybe i didn't okay didn't fight didn't see that yeah um david foster's grammy so he's won 16 grammys out of 45 to 47 total nominations that's insane it's bonkers producer composer arranger worked on uh i will love you i will always love you i know he's incredible but it's also funny because i think he's had one in every decade too but yeah i think there is a generation that knows him as yolanda's husband i mean not anymore yeah i didn't know any like when i i had seen that in the research and it's like i don't know any of these characters i mean i have to say because i watched real housewives of beverly hills at the beginning and yolanda um was a housewife that was his at the time ex-wife no they were married at the time oh my gosh and so he would come in and out and it was like oh she's married to her and she's married to her ex-wife and he's married to her ex-wife and he's married to her this big lead music legend but i didn't really know him okay and then all kind of like gg hadid just wild to see they're on their own huge and who's father who's the muhammad and i don't remember oh hadid duh and who's muhammad hadid he's somebody okay um but he wasn't in the show it's a real estate developer okay does altitude do anything for sexual activity um yeah oh wow it affects sexual function in the body's reproductive response due to lower oxygen levels and changes in air pressure it says to decrease libido well actually it says psychological effects on men decrease libido okay erectile dysfunction okay if you've got a cheating husband let's get up to altitude hormonal and sperm changes psychological effects on women and general experience respiration and stamina lower ambient oxygen levels and changes in air pressure increases breathing rate and heart rate during physical exertion which can cause fatigue or shortness of breath more quickly during intimacy so it sounds like it's a terrible place to lose your virginity it sounds like yeah it doesn't sound fun intensified sensations oh for some people acute or mild high altitude exposure combined with the excitement of travel or a new environment can heighten physical arousal and perceived intensity okay okay uh mood and sleep that doesn't although we did just learn they're all connected okay sleep disturbances insomnia and altitude related mood shifts such as increased anxiety or fatigue can indirectly dampen overall sexual energy okay when did the sultan of brunei declare sharia law he announced the introduction of sharia penal law on october 22nd 2013 and the first phase of the law officially took effect on may 1st 2014 and we were at that party before children's so that would have been pre-13 i want to say it was like in the 09 ish range well it couldn't have been because you said then two weeks later i must have got that part wrong oh interesting yeah 2009 i was just graduating college oh just a young eager just walking across that stage excited to summa cum laude yeah yeah excited to get out here and trick trick everyone into liking me special walk for the summa or just special tassels special tassels are we had two different ceremonies yeah us too okay yeah yeah there was an honor college oh so we had yeah there was also a we had like the whole magna you did the magna the magna summa you know yeah there was something special i did but i think that was for the like i just forgot what i am what am i your mag you're uh magna cum laude you can just be cum laude yeah magna and then summa yes and then we had specific graduation ceremonies for years and then we had special yes your college yeah within the university and then the university ceremony and that was tassels no walking okay yeah too big too big huge school great school huge school great school beautiful school um okay that's it love you love you Thank you.