207: Equity and Justice in Hispanic Serving Institutions with Dr Gina Anne Garcia

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Lone Star Rising Pack is responsible for the content of this app. (upbeat music) - Welcome to the top rated and award-nominated grad school femtoring podcast. The place for first-gen BIPOCs to learn about all things grad school, personal development, and sustainable productivity. This is Noctora Event Martinez Vu, and I will be serving as your femtor, providing you with tips and tricks and everything else you need to know to successfully navigate grad school and beyond. For over 13 years, I've been empowering first-gen students of color along their academic and professional journeys, and I'm really excited to support you too. - Welcome back everyone to another episode of the grad school femtoring podcast. This is your host, Duptoda Yvette, and today we are going to be talking about the pursuit of equity and justice in Hispanic serving institutions. And I'm excited because I've got La Mera Mera, Dr. Regina Angarsia here. She is a professor in the Berkeley School of Education, full professor, right? - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. She is also the host of the podcast, Gipasa H.S.I. is welcome to the podcast of Duptoda Dina. Thank you, thank you for that, and thank you for having me. I'm excited to talk to you today. - Yeah, me too. So I would love for folks to hear a little bit more about you, about your background, your black story. How did you become who you are? Just let us know the details. I know it's a big question, but I would love to know a little bit more about you. - Oh, how did I become who I am? That right there, we'll be here a while. But I mean, I'll just go ahead and talk a little bit about my just journey and through higher education and how I got to who I am today. I am born and raised Cali Girl, Cali all the way through and through, and yes, I am returning, actually, to California for the Professor Ship at Berkeley, UC Berkeley, starting fall 2023. So really excited to go home. Been away from home for 10 years in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, doing important work, doing research at the University of Pittsburgh, and the University of Pittsburgh has provided me with this opportunity in this space to do research, but the location has not been the best. So I'm excited to go back to California because I work with Hispanic serving institutions and the majority of Hispanic serving institutions are in the West, and particularly the Southwest, and a lot in California. So it's just for my research, professionally, it's a good move to go back home, but it's also good for my family 'cause we will get to go back return to where we're from. I actually was born and raised in Ventura, California, actually Ventura County, California, I actually seen in Valley, California, and I went to Cal State University Northridge for undergrad from there. I went to the University of Maryland for my master's degree, that was the first of my left California, and then I did my PhD at UCLA, the final, the final stop before the terminal degree, which of course is a PhD, and then I've been in Pittsburgh ever since, doing research with HSI's. Wow, that's a lot of hopping from Seasthan to University of Maryland to UCLA, and Penn, you said, oh, wait, you know what I'm saying? Sorry, sorry, yeah, I'm trying to remember all the Pittsburgh, and now Berkeley. Now Berkeley, it's so much hopping around. Yeah, that's the academic life, you know, like if you choose this life that sort of comes with it, if you are willing to do that, and not everybody has, it is a big sacrifice. It's hard on the person, the individual, and it's hard on the family. So it's not for everybody. I don't recommend it for everybody, it's a lot. It is, it really is, you have to personally be ready for all that jumping around. So I'm ready to settle in California, and be there for a while, and see my kids off to college from there, and you know, just do good work. That's great, that's great. What a beautiful homecoming too, especially at such a stage, you know, a milestone in your career too. Yeah. So your career, you've been studying this for a while, studying HSI's for a while. My audience is primarily undergraduates, and graduate students who are first in BIPOCs, and for folks who are less familiar with the term HSI, can you explain how you define it, and how HSI's differ from other institutions? Yes, okay. So Hispanic-Serveren institutions, they are one of several types of minority-serving institutions. So the Higher Education Act of 1965 set up the legislation behind HSI's and other minority-serving institutions. I think the most common, well-known MSI is historically by colleges and universities. I think that's pretty common knowledge, right? We pretty much know that. We have a vice-president, Kamala Harris, who is a graduate of an HBCU. Like, it's common knowledge, right? Like, we know HBCU's historically by colleges and universities, the history is the important part of that that they have been founded. Founded in the 1800s, late 1800s, a couple were founded actually, even before the Civil War, but most came in after Civil War. And particularly the 1890s is sort of, they's really important solid foundation because 1890 sets the place where the federal government basically put funding into HBCUs, but only if, well, it was actually land grants, the land grant or the land grab as we refer to them because it was a land grab at the time, right? A lot of stealing of land as this country was established. But the land grant institutions in the south, the policy was that you could establish a land grant institution if you can establish a separate, but equal one. And that's where the land grants and the south come from because why people didn't want black people in colleges and universities with them. So really important history because it was set at a time of segregation, right? Like that, the historical black colleges were necessary because black people could not. African people of African descent, really formerly enslaved people, really. I mean, these are the immediate descendants of enslaved people and/or formerly enslaved people themselves that were entering HBCUs. So such an important history, it's not the history that HSI's have, not even close. So we can't say it's the same exact sort of important historical foundational moment. HSI's have a different history. They come about through legislation that calls for a certain percentage of students in rolling. So it's 25%, 25% Hispanic in rolling. So anybody who identifies checks the block as Hispanic, then goes into the counting of the 25%. So you have to check the box. That's the other complicated thing 'cause we all know we can't decide how we want to define these days. - Yeah. - If you fall in the age, you're like all over the place, right? We're all like trying to figure out what's the best box for us, right? And I think the reality is there's not one box for us. But you got to check that box and then you then fall into the 25%. Now the HSI designation did come about through advocacy. So folks that were working at institutions that had large enrollment of Hispanic population in the like 1970s, like early 1980s, which isn't a lot of colleges and universities, primarily in Texas, community colleges in Texas. That's where a lot of the advocacy was coming from actually, where these college presidents and these advocates for education could see that there was this population that was really being underserved, right? That Hispanic Latino people, and Latino people at the time were not being adequately served by colleges and universities and not even enrolling, really, at that time. So the legislation, comes out through advocacy in that way that there are colleges and universities that are enrolling this greater percentage, and some of them at a high percent, almost like an HBCU where it's a majority Latino population, and there are HIs like that, like University of Texas at Paso, almost all Hispanic, Latino, Latine identified. And so that's where the legislation comes from, establishes this body of legislation where funding becomes available for these institutions, and so the funding is competitive. So HIs are enrollment driven, you got to hit the 25 percent, once you hit the 25 percent, you then can apply for the competitive grants. So you don't automatically get funding, which is also different from HBCUs. The HBCUs do have a designated line of funding, as they should, and HIs do not. They have a designated line of funding, but you have to competitively apply for it. So that's a whole debate to be had in its own because there's a growing number of HIs that are coming in. We're now at 571 as of fall 2022, 571 eligible HIs, and the data are showing that maybe half actually get the grants on any one year or might have an actual HIs grant on any one year, leaving a whole lot of institutions that are not actually getting any funding to do this additional work. Yet, they're still enrolling the 25 percent Hispanic. The other piece of the designation is that there's a high enrollment of low income or Pell grant eligible or federal grant eligible. There's four different grants that you can fall under. And so then you have a high enrollment of Latine and low income. So there's an intersection there, which we know creates bigger barriers for people, not only to be a person of color, but also low income in this country creates a number of educational challenges. So institutions that are rolling students who are underserved historically, yet not necessarily getting the funding to do the survey. So that's the technical federal designation. Right. So, okay, you told us the technical and also the distinctions between the different institutions and how some of them may or may not have access to this same kind of resources, the same kind of funding, some of them might not have funding at all. I know you've delved into these topics more deeply in your books. And so I want to kind of go back in time to how do you even arrive at like developing this interest and HSI's? And then hopefully we can talk a little bit more about your recent book and how, you know, how your work has transformed since then. Yes, for sure. So I actually am a graduate of an HSI. Now, when I went to Cal State and Northridge, it was an emerging HSI. That was a well-backed HSI, Cal State and Northridge has already been an HSI for probably 20 years. So we were right at the cost like borderline when I was there. I didn't know that. I didn't know what an HSI was. I didn't know what an emerging HSI was. I had no idea because this isn't something most institutions use. They don't use it for recruitment. They don't talk about it. You don't learn about it in orientation. They don't blast it on the walls. It's on the website, especially not 20 years ago when I was in college. More institutions are starting to actually embrace it in that sort of way. So we're seeing a progression of that. But definitely not when the designation first came out, which was you know, back in 1990s, middle 1990s. But I still think a lot about my own undergraduate experience and the significance is so powerful that like I do write about it, always referring back to my own, my own write experience. And just even to rewind a little bit more, I did mention I was from Seamy Valley, California, which for those folks that are from California know, that's a pretty like a predominantly white city. So I grew up in a predominantly white space as a Latina very strong like Mexican-American roots. I knew who I was my whole life. I never questioned anything about my own identity. Me and my mom were just talking about this a couple days ago, actually. How it was, you know, it was like, it was just, it was in us, right? It was in my embodiment. My identity was a part of what I was. And so I knew I was very aware of being in a very white space. And when you're in a white space and you're either black or brown, right? Because the black and latinos we all hung together and also Filipinos, also brown, right? Also brown Asians, black and brown folks we know when we're in white spaces because everybody tells us, right? Police tell you, teachers tell you, your peers tell you, random people shouting at you at the gas station tell you, right? Like it's just weird. It's like, why am I such a threat, right? So when you grow up in a predominantly white space, you know that you're not white, if you're not white. And so I did, I always knew I was very, it was very aware. And as Gloria let's know, I was going to say the wrong person. The book, why are all the black kids sitting together, Beverly Tatum? Why are all the black kids sitting together at the cafeteria? That made sense to me because we did all sit together. Me and all the, you know, all my black and brown friends, we all sat together, we all knew. And we sort of took care of each other, right? We protected ourselves in those predominantly white spaces. And as as did me and my family, I grew up with a lot of cousins. A lot of my family grew up in the same city with me. So we knew. So when I got to Cal State Northridge, it was very different. Like I wasn't in a predominantly white space anymore. And that's not always the case. I think my experience is kind of backwards from a lot of folks because of racial segregation and housing segregation in particular. Most people grow up in predominantly, you know, if they're a person of color, they grow up with a lot of people of color, segregated in those spaces. That's you. Yeah. Yeah. I'm from the valley. I know sea sun. I grew up in a predominantly brown community. Exactly. So most folks grow up in the predominantly like brown community or predominantly black community or mixing, right? Particularly in California, we see a lot of black and brown right together. And then you go to college and college predominantly white because most colleges, universities are still predominantly white. So I had this really different experience. And I entered college. And it was different, right? Like I knew like it felt like people of color. And like I immersed myself, myself and like all the things, nothing, all the things she got on really, uh, Chicano studies, uh, Chicano student organizations, uh, Chicano student programming, like anything, right? Like I, I just was ready to just eat it up. I was, I wanted to absorb it all because I, it was new to me, right? To have so many people that were more like me that were my peers, uh, because high school wasn't like that. And so it was, it was important for me. So I think of HSI as that, right? That like HSI's, uh, should be spaces where people of color feel like they belong, feel like they can find who they are. They can explore the right identity. They can take ethnic studies. They can take Chicano studies. They can do the Chicano Latino graduation, right? Rasagrad, whatever you call it. All of those things matter a lot. And they matter to me a lot. Um, and, and the reality is, like you said, like you grew up in a probably people of color space when you enter colleges and universities, even HSI, they still feel, you know, white to people. And so that's where the research is at. There are people are still like, nah, they still feel white, especially if you just barely made it. Yes, exactly. And so, and so they're, that's how I think about HSI's, right? Is these spaces that like what if they become like I call them spaces of liberation, right? Educational liberation where you can be like feel, like you belong, feel like you can, you can accelerate where you can be liberated in your own, your own identities, all that kind of stuff happens at HSI's. And so that's where, where my research really draws from that belief, I call it freedom dream in my new book, that freedom dream that colleges and universities can become that. Um, and I mean, HBCUs in many ways are that, right? And so if there's something we could strive to, it's that, but HSI's are not that at this time. Not yet. Can you say a little bit more about your recent book about, you know, you call it, yeah, transforming, so transforming exercise for equity and justice? What are some of the, you know, noted findings or recommendations or just things that you want folks to be aware, take away from the book? And we'll put a link to the book in the show notes. Do the books can, can read it for sure. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so, I mean, up, let me back up a little bit. So the original question I think you asked me was about HSI's, how are they defined, right? And I think you want to meet a define also, I define them, right? So let me define them first. Because that was a very technical, that was the technical definition, right? That I gained the federal definition. Now I've given my vision of HSI's, that's where all my research comes in. So my research defines HSI's outside of B.I. said beyond the federal designation. Um, the federal designation is those things, right? You, you low and low in high enrolling of low income students, high enrolling of Hispanic students, check the box. boom, you could become an HSI, that's it. There's no meaning attached to it. The federal government doesn't attach meaning to it. The people don't attach meaning to it if they don't. And I say that because people are starting to make meaning of HSI in really powerful ways within HSI but not at all, 571, not by any means. And so the research really is the meaning, make it. I've spent a lot of time meaning making, dreaming, researching, collecting data, and writing, and developing frameworks for how we can think about HSI beyond the federal designation. And so once you get the federal designation, what do you do with it? That's where all my research comes in. And so people draw on the books, right? The books, the articles, my own podcast, or I could post HSI's because they're trying to make meaning of HSI beyond the federal designation. And so there's people that are on the ground. I was a Title V implementer, which is the HSI grants at Cal State Fullerton, actually. And I remember trying to do this work and not having frameworks. And so when you don't have frameworks, you're just trying to make meaning of it on your own. What I've done with my own research and my scholarship is make meaning for people and give people a way to make meaning of it. And now what's happening is every, you know, people are making meaning of it in their own way. Like I've given people a framework and now they're like, OK, now what if it was also this? And what if it was also that? And what if we did this? And we're also doing this. And is that serving this, right? Because I talk about serving this. And I'm like, yeah, say more about that. What is serving this? And then maybe some examples of what, you don't have to name the entities, but like what it can look like, like you said, when you define it beyond the designation, what are some examples of what HSI's can look like? Yeah, for sure. The serving this is a framework. So that was one of the, I'm a frameworks kind of scholar. I've got all kinds of frameworks. But that one has become pretty important for people. It's basically elevating the SNHS size. So the Hispanic is, you got that. If you're at 25%, you got that, right? The S is like, how do you elevate the serving? How do you actually serve Hispanic, Latinx, Latinx population when you weren't historically founded that way? So the serving as framework is people think about beyond the federal designation, how do you make sense of it? There's two parts of the serving as framework. One is structurally, what do you have to do? So I'm an organizational theorist. So I talk about structurally. Like your mission, your vision, your strategic plan, your diversity plan, your compositional diversity of your president, your vice presidents, your deans, your faculty, your staff, all of that is structures. The curriculum, how do curriculum can you take? The support program, student services, co-curriculum, high impact practices, cultural centers, all of that is structurally-- Everything, basically. Everything, yes. When you step on the campus, all of that, all of that. I even in my new book, I talk about physical infrastructure. And so it literally is. I talk about the murals on the wall matter. And people are like, let's paint a mural. And I'm like, yes. Because my research, actually, my dissertation, people said that. They said that the place on campus where there were murals, it felt like an HSI. So I'm like, listen, it does matter to people. Like what it feels like matters to people. So physically, what does it look like? What does it feel like? And so yeah, to your question about those spaces that are doing that, I don't like to give names because I don't want it people to think there's a model. There's not a model. You make of it what you will, right? Based on your resources, your population, your infrastructure. Sorry, go ahead. No, you got it. That's exactly what it is. I say that all the time, I'm like, every HSI can be the best HSI. Because in higher ed, everybody wants to be the best something, right? We want to be the best. We want to be the first. We want to be the-- who knows what? You can all be the best HSI because you can be the best HSI in California, small, private, rural, HSI, right? That's different than the large public research HSI, right? It's different than New York. It's different than Puerto Rico. It's different than Florida, it's different to Texas, right? All of that comes into play when it comes to being the best HSI. It's like, where are you located? Where are you situated? What's your mission in general as an institution? So I very much define it in that way. Exactly how you said is like, yeah, you make meaning of it. But the folks that are doing the most progressive work, I will say, they are embracing this organizational approach to serving this. So hiring more people of color, that's huge, particularly faculty. You need more faculty. That one is the biggest barrier right now, as it's hard to hire faculty of color, apparently. It's like, I don't know what. I say apparently because there's a lot of people that you could hire, you're just not. There's a lot of people of color with PhDs who could be faculty researchers, right? Like teaching faculty, like depending on the kind of faculty you want, because every institution has different kind of faculty. They're out there, but you got to make that intentional effort to hire folks of color. So the hiring of folks of color, the rethinking of the curriculum, I visited one campus and they had me meet with their general ed committee. And I was like, oh, what's this going to be about? And they were like, well, our provost wants us to enact liberatory education the way you talk about it. And I was like, oh, dope. So y'all read my book. Because yeah, I talk about liberatory education in there. And liberatory from like a paloferian sort of liberatory, that education can be liberating. And so they're like, here's the different ways we're thinking about, what do you think, right? I was like, I love it. The fact that you're trying to enact the liberatory education in general ed, that right there. Like, I'm already on board. Let's go, right? When is it going to be across the curriculum? And the gen ed is the place where it's going to hit the whole curriculum because everybody has to take gen ed. So yeah, rethinking curricular structures, rethinking support services, right? How are we serving the students? My podcast in season three, we're talking about linguistic servings. So we just had a recorded an episode with folks talking about serving multilingual people. And that's such a part of HSI. Because, I mean, you have a good number who are heritage Spanish speakers, but you got a lot of languages, not just Spanish, in colleges and universities, right? Like, there are many of languages. How do you serve multilingual people, rather than do what we do in the US, which is tell people they have to speak English? When are we going to stop doing that? Because they do that to us K through 12. And then we get to college, and we think that that's the only way, because we've done it all our whole lives. Colleges and universities actually could be better, right? About like embracing a more multilingual approach. And so HSI's are thinking about that. How do we serve multilingual people, heritage speakers who want to get stronger in their heritage language for their careers, right? Like for their advancement, right? Their own social mobility, which is an important outcome for colleges and universities. We want people to get jobs and become economically mobile. What if they could do it linguistically in multilingual ways, which would advance them even more? So embracing all the ways that Latina people show up and thinking about rethinking how we can address educational needs through this much more multi-dimensional lens. Great, great. I can't help but think about-- I have someone that I work with who just filed her dissertation. And one of the chapters she was looking at the use of languages among-- well, how can folks-- well, how can Americans hear who speak separate thick and are trying to access that language? And how for some folks, it was so empowering that they actually access careers in translation and interpreting things that they never would have thought about if they hadn't had access to support services for the language part, having access to learn and keep developing that skill. Anyway, I think I'm so glad that you mentioned these examples because they're all so different. And like you said, I imagine each institution is different, too, that is enacting these different types of serving music. So OK, I was going to ask-- OK, yeah, I want to talk about your podcast. But first, I want to talk about, OK, you make it seem like-- just do this, just do that, just figure it out. But I know higher end things are not always that easy. So what are some of the challenges? And what are some of the opportunities that you notice HSI's are facing right now in promoting equity and justice in their own way for minoritized, historically excluded populations? And what are you noticing in terms of trends of how they're evolving? Yeah, for sure. You're right, when I say it, it sounds really easy. I'm like, here, I mean, I give you a framework, even. You read my book, it's right there. And I'm like, come on. What else do you want me to do? You know, do it? I could come do it, but you got to pay me, you know, now. But that's the reality, the doing is hard. And I joke about that, but I also acknowledge all the time, particularly when I give public lectures. I'm like, this is hard work, y'all. I've done it, right? It's not that I haven't. I have implemented TETA 5 grants. have thought about organizational change. It is really, really hard. And you have to slow down and take it one day at a time, one year at a time. This HSI becoming HSI, like the way I do about it is going to take years, right, for institutions to undo what they've done and do it differently. Because that's really what I'm calling for is like, do it differently, right? Like, let's rethink higher ed. And so there's that, right? That organizational change takes time. And that's how I write about this work, because it's organizational change. Now, are we changing to your second point here question? Yes. And I'm an external optimist, so I'm like, we can do this, right? Like, I am seeing it happen. And I admittedly, I see it happen. And then I see, I see, like, three steps forward. And then like two steps back. That's the reality too, is like, this is such hard work that that happens, particularly when you have like a champion or a few champions, and those champions leave, they take their champion and their knowledge and their will and their everything, their resources with them. And then they go change somewhere else, but you're back trying to keep going, which is why I talk about the organizational approach. That like, you can't rely only on one person, because like, that happens, right? Like, organizational change cannot be one individual person's, you know, like dream only, like, everybody's got to be on board with it. But yeah, so what are some of the ways that I see? Well, for one, I think just the reality that we're enrolling more people of color is a change, right? We have to acknowledge that. So the fact that in the 1980s, there were very few Hispanic Latinx Latinx people entering colleges, universities, like it just wasn't where we were at. And so come the 2000s or so, we start to see a lot more higher increase, right? So in the last 20 years, we've seen that, that increase. So do we change as institutions? Well, yeah, that was a change, right? That took time. Now, we have to also acknowledge that people have demanded their way it, right? We have have people who fought so that we could be in colleges and universities, and I know that all the time, right? I think I know people who fought for me so that I could be where I'm at, right? Even at the level to be a full professor with tenure at a UC Berkeley, like that was, like, there were people that fought that fought so that I could get that. And specifically at Berkeley, too. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, to make it full circle, right? Like, yeah, because I mean, you know, 30 years ago, that wasn't the case, right? You weren't seeing Latina's getting full professorships, right? Latina's fought their way, right? Like our elders, I mean, I talk about my scholar elders. I'm like, I know my scholar elders have fought for me, right? I know I can name, right? Like, women who have fought so that I can be, and so that my path was easier, actually. It was, right? It was, but that's because those fights have already taken place, right? And so we're still fighting. We're still fighting our way, and we're still fighting different battles. But things do change, right? And so we have to stay hopeful. We have to know that they'll get better. We have to know that a speaking up matters that we do need to speak up, and we do need to fight those battles, even if we never see the fruits of our own labor. And I think about that, right? You mentioned, yeah, people fighting at Berkeley, right? Like 1960s, right? Like, was like, you know, all the movements that we're going on, some of those folks never saw. They don't see what it looks like now, and how they're what they did matters to those of us now. And what we're doing now is going to matter in 40 years in a different way that we might not see. But you fight the fight anyways, right? That's justice. That's the kind of social justice work that those of us that actually care and want to make a difference that we do it for that reason. That we're like, we might not never see it. But we're going to we're going to fight the good fight anyways. And we know it matters for the future, right? For the future generation. So, so yes, colleges and universities are changing. These things that I'm talking about, I mean, I document a lot of things that are going on that that are changing, that, and then I also write about things that are still happening that are not good for us. Like, you know, one of my most recent articles is about co-authored with one of my doc students about racialized and gendered experiences of Latina faculty at HSI's that like Latinas are experiencing racism. They're experiencing the patriarchy, right? That they're they're have very different experiences, not only from from white folks, but from men and men identify people, male identified people. So women and femmes, trans women, I mean, are having different experiences in colleges, universities, and still having to fight a fight. And so we're documenting that as well that like, yes, changes coming, yes, changes happening, but also bad things are happening too. So let's not pretend just because there's a lot of people in color at HSI's particularly at the undergraduate level that now racism doesn't live here. Racism still lives here. It still lives here amongst the students, even the most diverse population at the student level. There's still racism. There's still anti-plateness. There's still anti-indiginity. You you mentioned indigenous Latina people. There's folks doing that research. Gabriella Kova Sanchez was on my podcast season one. She talks about that, right? Latina indigenous people don't fit into the same construct as domestic, born, US, you know, Latinos. But without any connection to our indigenous roots, right? Yeah, we can say like, I have indigenous roots. We were colonized, but you don't we don't know if you don't know those indigenous roots, you've never been brought up with those. You don't know what that means. That's a different experience. And so that's happening. The anti-indiginity even within the Latino community is happening. So yeah, so it's like it has to be both like here's some progress, but also we're not making enough progress when Afro Latinos and indigenous Latinos are not having good experiences at the hands of our own people. That's that's a problem. We need to have those conversations. We need to come into some racial reckoning and some racial healing. And we need to do it fast because it's the reality right now. I'm so glad that you mentioned that because of something that comes up a lot when folks think about even the term Hispanic and how problematic it is. But also talking about having conversations and having the necessary conversations, you know, brings me to asking you about the podcast and kind of why you decided to start a podcast. I imagine it's another way to keep uplifting the voices of, you know, the people who are doing this kind of work in the groundwork and research work. So can you tell us a little bit more about the podcast? About get beside your size and what you envision for the future. You gave us the sneak peak of season three, but what else is to come? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So the podcast I really created the podcast. So as a researcher, one of my biggest issues I have with research is that we do all this research. Scholars spend all this time. We get grants. We spend money. We collect data. We fund graduate students. We write. We go through the review process over and over or buys and resumin and resumin again and resumin again. And then our article gets published, you know, four years later after it started, like literally from the start of the article, you know, from the start of a research project, it gets published. And like a hundred people access it. And it's like nobody's even accessing that level of research, not because they don't want to, but because it's inaccessible. You have to pay to access journals, right? Like peer review journals. There are very few that are open access. The sort of why I just mentioned about the racialized gendered experiences. I paid as a researcher because I had the grant money extra money to make it open access so other people wouldn't have to pay, you know, like every person should have to pay $25 to access an article. Like that's the making these sets, right? And so not every scholar can afford to pay to make it open access either. Yeah, I was just trying to get rid of my grant money. So I acknowledge that privilege too, right? Because I was trying to like run out this grant. So I was like, well, shoot, let's just use it for open, let's use it for good. You know, like I'm all about that. Like let's use the, let's use funds for good. And it's an, it's an accessible use of grant funding to do that. I highly recommend anybody that can do it to do it. But yeah, that's a privilege also to be able to even make. And it's not cheap to make your article open access. I'll say that. So my, my doc student was like, why? And I was like, okay, it's okay. It's all, it's all good, baby. We'll get it. We got it. But so we made it open access and still invite not be accessed by the masses, right? And so for me, get us exercise was like, let's make it for the masses, right? I want to make research available for people. The other thing was I was seeing in various ways in my own, you know, as a scholar, doing different work with different communities that the practitioners who are doing the HSI work were also not accessing the research. So I'm like, so I'm writing all of these articles, books, frameworks. I'm giving you the framework. And you're not even reading it. And I'm not blaming you for that. I wrote an article about that too. I was like, I won't blame you. That's hilarious. I did write an article about it. I do. Like, that's where I take, like, I am a writer, right? So I take it to the, to the, I would say the pen and the paper, but, you know, we all know it's not pen. It's, it's laptop, right? So I can Take it to the keyboard and I write about it, right? I'm like, okay, listen, I know, you're busy, I got it. I'm busy too. So how can I make the research more accessible to you, right? And so the people that I want to access my research 'cause I do research so that it actually makes a difference, that's where the scholar activism comes in, that like I'm not doing research so that I get money or like a page or get book deals, that's not why I do research. I do research so that it actually makes a difference. - Yeah. - So it actually creates, right? And like not everybody has that in mind. They just want to get promoted. They just want to get the grants, whatever. I'm like, no, I want to make a difference. Believe me, in comparison to a lot of scholars that have full professorship right now, I don't have that big grant money. I use pennies, right, to get the research, right? I'm like, I'll do the research on pennies and get it out there, right? Like, I'll do what I got to do. I fund my own podcast because I want to make the research accessible to people. So Kipass, HSI is the space where people can, as you know, with the podcast, listen for free and learn about what's going on. So that was the biggest thing is like making research accessible. The other thing was like you said, lifting voices, right? Like there's lots of voices. For me, it's providing space, right? For folks who are doing really awesome work at HSI's, but they aren't writing about it because that's not their job. They're doing other things, right? Like writing about it and writing an article about it or writing a book about it is not what they're doing right now. And so it's like, okay, spend an hour with me and tell me what you're doing and tell all of our listeners and let them learn with you. So it was a way to provide that space in that platform for folks who are doing really awesome work, let them share it with folks and really sharing best practices. Like I just want us all to learn from each other and people have a lot of great ideas and a lot of them are not mine, right? Like I've written about a lot of HSI stuff and there's a lot of people that I have done, not only written, but done really quite a size stuff that I never even thought of. I'm like, I love that. Let's share it with others, you know? And so the podcast, Kipass HSI is really is that, like making knowledge accessible to the people who need it. - Right. And I mean, yeah, what do you envision doing with the podcast? And you're already doing a lot. I mean, it's a whole project of, you know, sharing the work to the masses. It's a lot of work. I know. I'm doing it. - Yes. (laughing) - But future, future Kipass HSI, like what is the vision of the podcast, is it so that more folks can take these best practices, put them into practice and continue doing the work of the becoming process of the servingness, of the implementing, all that. But yeah, what else do you imagine doing with the podcast in the future? I don't even know. I'm like, is this going to be a continuous thing? Or, you know, yeah. (laughing) - Yeah, no, that's a great question. For sure, going to continue to do it, going to continue to offer it. It's interesting. This season was a little different. 'Cause the first two seasons, like I had all like my HSI scholar friends, or like the top people in my mind. And so season through, I was like, okay, I kind of, you know, I've already provided that part from for all the people who are all the awesome people I wanted to share the space with. And so I started asking people, right? And even when folks that come on the show, they recommend people. And so there's a good number of folks that I have never even met, but people recommended them. And they're like, oh, this would be a great person. They're doing good work. And I'm like awesome. So I am now extending my network, meeting really cool people, doing really awesome things. But yes, continuing to share the space and continuing to share the knowledge is definitely in the foreseeable future. I think some other things, like people are trying to give me feedback on how they're using it. So like one person like emailed me and they were like, yeah, we are using your podcast as part of our professional development offerings. And I was like, oh, right? So they're using it as part of their professional development that like folks have to like listen to the podcast as part of their professional development. I was like, okay. And the only reason they emailed me is because one of the episodes was not, they couldn't access it on my website. 'Cause it's available in a lot of places, but they were accessing it from my own website. And so I was like, oh, okay. That must be an, you know, we didn't link it, right? The right way, as you know, you gotta do a lot of linking and different, you know, in order to make sure it's, it goes live, right? Every platform has its different ways that you gotta link it and whatnot. And so even hearing that, like then I start thinking, okay, well, how does it become a part of a professional development series, right? Like do I make it that, right? How do I make it marketable, marketing it in that way, right? That it actually is that level of learning. I mean, I have a vision. I'm going through it and just listening to all the episodes again and writing out all the themes, right? There's so many themes that come out. (laughing) And so it's like, you know, and people tell me, I mean, people tell me they're like, I listen to like the same episode like four or five times, right? Like I listen one time. The next time I take notes, the next time I listen again, just to hear it again and make sure I heard it correctly, right? Like they really are accessing it for the knowledge, right? It is a knowledge space. So yeah, I think it's a good question and I think I am still thinking about that. - I can already envision it. And not just for professional development, but in a bunch of different spaces, whether it's, you know, Chicanex, Latinx departments, higher ed departments, you name it. And also like I can envision your book three, four, five, I don't know how many books you have, but like whatever the next number of books I can be kind of inspired by some of these conversations that you're having. So it's very, very exciting just like how much you can do with this and also the increased accessibility to, like you said, for folks who aren't like able to access the paywall stuff or who aren't always on their computer actively reading academic articles, they can pop some headphones on and listen to the one that we share. So that's really, really great. All right, we're getting close to wrapping up. So I have a couple more questions. I wanted to ask you for advice for first-gen BIPOC students in particular for those that are either enrolled in HSI's or are considering attending HSI's for grad school. So maybe they're at an HSI now. Maybe they're not, and they're thinking, okay, that's going to be the next place I go to. What are some things you want them to keep in mind? - Yeah, that's a good question. I mean, so I'll start because my research brain is always in the research. So I'm going to start by saying that the graduate population at HSI does not mirror the undergraduate population. So, and that article, yeah, yeah, so let's start with that. So, and me and my graduate student wrote that article. So I know the data. We have clear data. The data show that, so first of all, HSI is an undergraduate construct. So we have to acknowledge that. That you become an HSI because your undergraduate population is 25% or more Hispanic, Latinx, Latinx, Latinx. Your graduate population doesn't have to. Neither does your faculty, neither does your ministry. There's no other requirement for, that's the lack of accountability at the federal government level. Right, the federal government doesn't hold HSI accountable for anything besides those two percentages, right? The low income and the Hispanic. And then also if you get the grants and you know, you have the report that you, what you're doing with the grant money, right? That's the level of accountability. And so a majority of HSI's are not actually graduate HSI's, first of all. So only, I think the number is like maybe 40% of all HSI's are even graduate, right? So that knocks out a good at least 60% or so. And that's an estimate, it's something around there, at least 40%, but not much more than that. And so a lot of HSI's are not even gonna be where you could go to get a graduate degree, either a master's or a doctoral level. So but then those, let's say it's 40% or so, a majority of them are not HSI's at the graduate level. So you're entering an institution that even when you get to your program is still predominantly white. So the undergraduate population might be all thriving and diverse and all that. And then you enter your graduate degree and let's say history. And it's probably pretty white, right? Like the faculty and other grad students are also white. And maybe the curriculum, probably the curriculum. I mean, I named history in one of the white, whitest colonial spaces on any college campus, right? Unless you're taking it through, you know, ethnic studies lands, you're getting the colonial problematic history of higher ed, I mean of the US and beyond, right? Depending on what history you're setting. And so it becomes very white again, really quickly. So I think that's important to acknowledge that HSI's are still not HSI's at the graduate level necessarily. Some are a little bit better and then it's program based, right? So depending on your program, like some programs are a lot more diverse, right? But that's like one by one. It's like a graduate program by graduate program. So I would say doing that research if you are interested in entering a graduate program that is more diverse, understanding that like you still have to do that sort of level of research into the diversity of the student population. Ask that question. I'm a graduate, as a graduate advisor, right? Like as somebody who comes to me to get advice on the process, right? For working with me or entering our graduate program, Ask faculty. Ask the the person who oversees the program what the diversity is and they will tell you and ask to talk to people of color because they will tell you students will tell you that it's a terrible place right that like no don't come here oh yeah that one Latina you wanted to work with oh yeah she's leaving to Berkeley this year don't come right like that happens right that happens all the time right like people applying to go work with one person and then they're like that I'm out right and they're not they should tell you that I told my person who was coming to work with me very early on right the the doc student who was coming to work with me I am leaving probably it's like 90% chance of leaving I need to tell you that because I don't want you to enter this space without the knowing the truth right not everybody tells the truth um so ask right ask those kind of questions ask what kind of climate it is ask what kind of what the the experiences are of people of color because otherwise you're entering a space thinking it's gonna be all great yeah I'm at an HSI it's gonna be amazing and then it's not um the graduate population and the graduate uh curriculum I'll say pretty much across the board has not changed um so don't go in expecting expecting that so I'll stop there I mean once again you're you're reminding us that it's it's all about the individual programs so not just individual institutions but even more so the individual departments and programs within them that make all the difference especially for graduate students so thank you for that um if you haven't heard their closing words and if not how can others reach you how can others follow you your work support your work yes yeah um I mean I guess in in also the spirit of like femtor ang right like I said I I mean I am on the receiving and now right that that um that process of going through graduate school and going into uh either masters or doctoral programs uh there is a lot of work to do we're not creating a college going uh not a college going a graduate going culture right so I think that would be my big word first is like there is a program for you right like get into those programs if you are trying to apply um and get paid uh don't go anywhere particularly if you're a person of color that that doesn't fund you um higher ed needs to be funding if we want more diversity we need to pay people we need to pay them what they're worth and that's everyone that's graduate students that's faculty that's staff all of us because they should be paying for the fact that we're bringing our cultural knowledge our community cultural wealth comes into the institution with us we are our single-handedly changing institutions just by entering the spaces um so yeah so go get go get those programs go get that get those funds go work with those folks you want to work with like do do that right um get the advice follow podcast like this follow you know into I know there's Instagram accounts influencers people who are helping particularly grad students of color figure out or demystify the the process right because it is it's a process and there is an unwritten curriculum right there is totally an unwritten curriculum to how to get into and through graduate school so making sure you're accessing whatever whether it be through a podcast or through a book those books are written to right like get the book get the podcast follow the influencers um I follow the influencers on Instagram just because I like to learn too right and I've been you know I don't I don't need like how to write a you know the the personal statement for the grad school but I just like you know I just like supporting and learning too of like yeah what is you know how are people perceiving this process that I'm on the receiving end now um and and and and also doing the work to break down a lot of things like we don't need great we don't need GRE scores right like we've fought that fight um that fight has been won in a lot of places good we got rid of GRE scores that doesn't mean that people now all of a sudden are totally open out the doors to all people of color because they still are using other metrics um to allow people into the institution right or into their graduate programs um so I sit on committees with those folks who want to know about their the GPAs and the and the and the what schools did they go to and the the training and the pedigree and I'm like what is this person want to do they want to work they want to you know do equity and justice work cool I'm I'm with it right they they struggled and undergrad cool many of us did right that's I'm good with that let's keep talking through right like that's not the end all be all um like those those normative metrics right so so we just wanted to add that right from a sort of femturing perspective um but other than that you said how do people reach me uh yes I'm on social media so you could come follow me on social media Instagram Twitter LinkedIn those are the spaces I spend most of them in um at Gina and Garcia and also my website Gina and Garcia dot com so yeah I'm accessible find me I'm happy to interact with folks DM me it goes down in the DMs for reals like DM me I always responded DMs faster than emails even um I should have been DMing you I know right if you email me I'm like um maybe way I'm telling you it goes down in the DM yes people DM me on the time and that's how I'd be like and then those are getting technical and I'm like can you email me but like you're already on my mind now right now you're on my radar so I'm like okay yeah remind me that you were in my dm so I can remember um but yeah no definitely DM scholars DM folks all right well um we're gonna link all of that in the show notes for sure so folks can can reach you I just want to thank you once again thank you so much for coming on the show the pyra Gina for sharing all of your wealth of knowledge and experience and wisdom and total thank you so much for coming on the show today thank you for having me thanks so much for joining me in the grad school femtoring podcast if you like what you heard here are four ways you can support the show the first is to make sure you're subscribed and leave a review on apple podcasts the second way is to get your copy of my free grad school femtoring resource kit which includes essential information to prepare for and navigate grad school you can access it at the link in today's show notes the third way to support my show is to follow me on social media you can find me on instagram with the handle at grad school femtoring and on linkedin by searching my name the last way to show your love is to sign up to work with me via my grad school femtoring academy my group coaching program for first-gen bipox seeking to work on their personal growth and gain sustainable productivity skills you can learn more at gradschoolfemtoring.com /economy thanks again for listening and until next time this is james taleriko we have an affordability crisis because we have a corruption crisis and this is his plan to do something about it i brought democrats and republicans together to pass the first ever cap on insulin co-paste we have to stop data centers from jacking up our utility bills to spend the federal gas tax to spend the federal diesel tax and in this disastrous war so we can lower prices for texans because james taleriko knows life is too hard for too many texans and he'll work with anyone to make things a little easier here's james one more time i'm going to bring democrats and republicans together to start lowering these costs start raising our pay and start getting this economy back on track james taleriko for texans paid for by loans to our rising pack loans to our rising pack got gone not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee loans to our rising pack is responsible for the content of the set