Episode 9: Myths and Misconceptions

(upbeat music) Welcome back to the ASN Dad Chat, we're a podcast and community dedicated to making sure no ASN Dad in Scotland has to walk this path alone. Our goal is simple, real talk, real honesty, and sharing our own experiences to help you navigate the system. Whether you're in our army tap group already, or just finding us now, we've got a seat at the table. And just a reminder, we aren't experts, we're just kids, and this is just experiences and opinions, not medical advice, not legal advice. Then let's go on with the chat today. Hello, and welcome to ASN Dad Chat. This is Episode 9. My name's Andy, I'm joined by Barry. Hello there. And Sam. Hello, and this week, what we're looking to talk about is the myths and misconceptions about reason kids with additional needs, such as the fact that apparently, I never used to be any autistic kids in the past. So you think? Yeah, exactly. A brand new idea that's come out recently. It's never so. Never an issue previously. Not? Yeah, that sort of hasn't just seems to be growing and growing. It's just the new craze, the new popular fad. Definitely. Yeah, I think it's definitely something that we'll be able to talk about quite a lot in terms of things that we've heard, the fact people say we've heard about our kids and even things you see online. And talking to the dad chat, there wasn't a shortage of feedback in that. And it was not, no. No, it gave us quite a lot, quite a lot of material and truth. So what's the, just go through them as a list, do we? Yeah, I mean, I guess off the top of your head is an anthem that kind of jumps out straight away that you've maybe heard someone say, but you're a kid or someone else's kid or just in general? I think kind of touching on what you were saying there is that ESN and autism, it seems to, you know, didn't happen back in the good old days, you know, the golden generation. So it's been, not in my day. Yeah, not in my day. When pints were about a pound, a pound a year or something like that. No, but I think, you know, I've done so many kind of misconceptions and even like during those times, you know, how ESN was handled was, I was just kind of shunted and put away. So I think if anything, you know, looking at all these misconceptions, it'll be really good to kind of gauge understanding with people who might not have any experience in this or who are brand new to, you know, raising children with ESN. Yeah, definitely. I think obviously it's clear that the stuff in the past, that it's just a lot better identified and diagnosed now whereas people might have just seen us coming to misbehaving or naughty or are just a lot worse than that essentially. Yeah. Looking at it historically, I think it is a lot better now that there is more of that identification and that also means that there's a lot more help for kids out there. Yeah. 100%. I think, you know, I remember my dad just always talked to me about school, especially when I was younger and you know, we never really thought about like any sort of ESN or autism and I know my dad always just to talk about like, like my dad was, you know, I was very much brought up in an older family. So my dad's experience was drastically different to what you can imagine nowadays or even when we were at school, you know, the belt was still a thing, the dunce's corner, you know, all of that sort of stuff. You know, when you think about it, it's insane and he was telling me all of these stories about, you know, like, your children who, you know, they would go to school with and they didn't have a lot in common with or, you know, there was children who showed signs certainly of having additional support needs and, you know, they were almost kind of depending on how kind of functioning they were. I don't think that's the term nowadays, but at the time it was, you know, high functioning, low functioning and, you know, a lot of them were like put to the front of the class or, you know, the ones who were just kind of thriving on their own, were put to the back and almost forgotten about 'cause they were just getting on with it, you know, and I think nowadays, you know, you look at ESN and it's so important just like, you know, there's so many extra support networks now that are in school, out of school, you know, and they live through the NHS, all of these, so. - Yeah, I think it's more about inclusion than exclusion now. I think it's the try to make sure that everyone's getting involved and I think it is one of these things that is a bit different, especially with, with kind of conditions like autism or in some way or that, where it is more of like an invisible disability. So a lot of the time it can just look like your kid does misbehaving and it can just look like they're in a half, they're in a tantrum and at the same time you just also, you're just a really bad, lazy parent letting your kid do anything sort of thing. So, and I know, personally, it's one of these things that it still goes through your head that you, actually can do something, then you feel like in your head, oh, do I need to put on this show that I'm telling him off because of these other parents here, because that's what a parent should be doing, whereas he's not doing anything wrong, he's just being himself, he's obviously doing his own thing to regulate, I think it is difficult that it is, there isn't a big sign in his head that says I have additional needs. - That's the kind of thing I find quite tricky and always I find tricky is trying to draw that line as well. And our kind of situation when Brody gets distressed, it's not as much now as it used to be, but he would tend to lash out in ASN sessions or places with parents that can understand it, it makes things a lot easier. Whereas in scenarios where it's a kind of a mixed-cow, they're just, you know, particularly in hall, these things, it's really tricky, because people just see a kid hitting their kid, and that immediately jump to a defense and wonder about our other dad, which is, I'm not great for me. But I think it's really tricky to kind of deal with, but I sort of over time try to get a thicker skin about it and basically almost apologize once, obviously not giving a minute trouble, like you see, 'cause it's a lot of times that's more counterproductive than anything else, that's the thing, but it's trying to set a challenge as behavior, as behavior in a way that isn't gonna distress or any further, and then explain into them, like, listen, this is why this has happened, really sorry, 'cause it still happened. It's still something to be kind of apologetic and make sure that their kid's okay, does anything you can do for them, et cetera. And I kind of, I would try that once and if the reaction was still like, I'm not expecting them to be like, "Ah, no, well, sorry, it's very assaulted, but just if the action is still a vanguard or a frustration, I would just walk away and go, you know what, it's fine. Like, if you don't understand it, or you don't want to understand it, or it's just a better role at the moment, fair enough, I'll leave you to it, say the thing. But I think a lot of that probably comes from kind of, a bit of lack of awareness in as much as, it wasn't a thing back then, it's all arranged now and it's popular. I think there is still a long way for people to go to kind of understand that fully, or a bit more and be a bit more kind of accepting of it. And that comes from being able to ask questions, I think a lot of the time as well. So I think I would kind of like to say before we get to the deeper of this as well, like a lot of what we will say today might seem kind of like where we're complaining or frustrated that people understand, but we're leaning from each other all the time and people can, I've got to be able to kind of become more enough to ask questions and not be afraid to be afraid of the back class of it essentially. - Yeah, definitely I think we've said plenty of times before that we would be the first ones to hold our hands up as well to say that before we had these kids, we probably had no idea, we were probably the ones that we're talking about right now that had no idea of the one that would be, kind of muttering on as your breath, if a kid's going crazy in front of you in a queue, you'd have no idea, but I think it is one of these ones where it is just no one that, if you get any friends out there, family, like you'd rather they ask the questions so that you can do it rather than kind of making assumptions because again, I think we've said as well that every kid with additional needs are totally different so it could be done for Brody, could be a complete opposite for Ashton sort of thing. There's not really one size fits all for these kids so I think it is all about if you are wanting to be involved, you just need to try and essentially ask what you can and get yourself into their world as opposed to trying to be back here. - I think just to touch on your point, I think it can be really difficult as well, from the outside looking in 'cause all we're saying very much ask these questions, there is no such thing as a stupid question, certainly in our eyes, but I think even when you look kind of outside in, if you're stressed, you're like watching, you're looking after your child and if your child's distressed and struggling in a social environment, people might not look at are it as this person's approachable right now and that is quite a misconception 'cause yes, yes, your child is having that meltdown, but it doesn't mean that it's out with our control, sometimes and certainly something that I have learned and certainly when I met my oldest, I remember one of the first times with me and my partner who took him to the shop and he had a meltdown it's really bad to say, but I was actually kind of like, oh my god, this is really embarrassing, what's going on and I'm looking around to see if people are staring at us and all these types of things 'cause it's so out your comfort zone, you don't know what's going on and you have to kind of, your soul focus. is on your child, but at the same time you have that thought process of oh my god this is really embarrassing, you know, how can I get this to stop? And as the years have gone on and as I've got to know my steps and my step daughter so much more, you know, and you know their struggles, you know, it can set them off and it doesn't affect me now, you know, if my oldest he has a tantrum, I'm like well, you know, he's gonna have a tantrum, this is how he's gonna self-regulate himself, you know, there's nothing I can do that's gonna, you know, change that right now so therefore it's out of my control and you know, all you could do is make it safer among those. Well that said, so long as, so long as you're prioritising safety, as long as you're prioritising, you know, this is, you know, our planning so to speak, you know, our oldest he constantly asks for shopping at the moment, but in his eyes shopping means treat, you can get a treat, you know, we can go around as our local asda without, you know, two or three stops for how much I can grab a snack. So, you know, it's one of those that when he doesn't get that and we have a plan afterwards, it's for us it's that kind of reiteration of right, we're going shopping, but then we're going home and we're doing this and it's trying to get him out of that, that mindset of I'm here, I'm shopping, you know, as my treat arrives, you know, so, you know, but that could be quite a common misconception, I think, you know, when the children are having these tantrums, you know, the paints in that case aren't approachable. We are, you know, it's just how we're dealing with things. It might be busy at that point, but yeah, certainly. I think touch on what you will say on Andy as well, like the, you don't want to look like you're not doing anything, either, that's sticking a tricky, another tricky, but I sat down a lot with Brody in particular when he was kind of at his most physically opposed in many ways, you know, at his worst, Maui, Adele and Matt, was, I remember was essentially a man Markham and Be his bounce on for an hour and a half, which it took us a long time to kind of realise like that. And it seems really obvious, but if you're kind of disregulated, the last thing you want is a guy by injury. It's not sustainable, it's not enjoyable, you know what I'm saying? Exactly. He didn't get much out of it, but the, and again, the kind of benefits of granted was, it was an ESN dad. My own dad's own and our kids at the, at the event had actually said to me like, basically almost kind of took me out, I was stressed out my walks at that point, and almost he just kind of started a conversation with me directly about that, whereas that had never really happened to me before at that point, and it just took me right out of the kind of stress, and he didn't, he essentially went through the same thing, this is what we did. And it has kind of main thing at that point, was just, you'd need to be able to step in, but just redirect, you don't escalate, and it seems really obvious, but having someone who's been in that situation tell you was, was great. So at that point, even that people approaching you, even though you might not look approachable, can, can help in that scenario as well. So that was, that was beneficial for sure. Yeah, I remember it was, but thanks to it. I think it's that way as well, get somewhere with Ashton, and I think you'll find that, have the time to be following about telling them not to do something, they just do it more. Yeah, essentially, it's not until you kind of try and sit back, it does not always fix it straight away, and then they kind of realise, like, well, I'm not getting this automatic attention every time I do this now, because it probably was the case that I potentially, a Brody, if he's, if he's hit someone or that, he's realised, you're going to come over and do something, it just turns into a game, getting almost. That, that was a lot of it as well, was just, even now it's still something we do, if he does kind of start getting hyper or start, you know, he struggles to sort of know the difference between excitement and distress. It's got, there's a very family in between it, and I'm either way, it's kind of hitting the motions, that way, so a lot of what we do is just try and make things as, like you say, just make it boring, just try and. You do it very, very well. I do, yeah, absolutely. I think the feedback for this week's podcast will probably say the same thing, but yeah, just trying to try and sort of turn it down to 11 and let them calm. Yeah, Ashton's exactly the same, so like, he will have the same sort of upset, he could end up kind of self-harming things, if we make them laugh too much, so it just seems that we have like any sort of emotion, can be too much for him, whether he can get too upset, or he can be too happy, and he can be giggling away, and then all of a sudden, as if it just kind of explodes and as if this was too much, so it is that balance, which again, took a while to kind of get used to as well, you're so happy, but yeah, I think it's with everything with these kids, it has taken a lot of time to get used to it, and I think that's the. One of the difficult things as well, because I think you'll have a lot of people out there who kind of just have that automatic assumption, although grow out a bit eventually, all this sort of stuff, given you all these kind of magic cures, or the different things that you see online, I mean there's definitely some good ones. Honestly, I don't remember, there was somebody who years ago now, but I went to an ASN event, local to where I'm in my partner's day, and she was adamant that she was taking her son to Turkey for something to cure autism, and I was like, oh, your teeth? Yeah, evidently, I was just, do you know what I said at the time? It's one of these things, I think, a lot of assumption that I think also gets made quite a lot, is the autism, ASN, it's almost like it has to be cured, and that's not the case. I think something that's really important, and something that I get taught, I've done courses, and must be a time and stuff like that to help out, and the reiterating message is that autism ASN just means their brain's wired a little bit, differently, they process things different, you know, there's nothing wrong with them, you know, there's, and that's something that I would react to everybody is that there's nothing wrong with them, they just process life differently, and we have to learn that, and it's not easy, you know, we have to bridge the gap between our own children, never mind all the people's children, you know, and it's, it can be frustrating at times, there's no easy way around it, but you know, you've been by being understanding by keeping yourself kind of open to, you know, new processes, new ideas, you eventually can bridge that gap. You learn something new from them every day, really, when they is, it's kind of, it's, it's, yeah, sometimes complicated, but it's necessary. Yeah, definitely, I'm just saying, it's exactly what you're saying, there's something like it's not just like a kind of, a temporary thing that you should be constantly trying to fix, and I think it does get to that point where you kind of realise that you're not trying to fix something, you're trying to just make things as easy as possible for them, and I think I've said before about getting into their world and seeing things how they do, and trying to make them as kind of as possible, I mean don't get it wrong, it's not as if you can wake up every day and say I'm really glad that Ashton has autism or anything like that, I think it's that way of it, it's that balance between, there's acceptance you have to get to that point and just realise that there is a kind of, I know from you personally, it was kind of like a, like a grieving process for a while, but then it's also the way of, just tell your son, you need to then realise that there's still a lot here, and as soon as you kind of twist your outlook in that way, things do tend to get a great outlook I would say personally, sorry I had, I've got really into this sort of, I've spoke to you this before, I was seeing their progression, you know, as they, because they learn stuff differently and often not, it's not as seamless and it's not in the same order as what a neurotypical kid might be, you almost see these little steps, these little bits of progress happen all the time, and absolutely love that, like that's something that, that, you hold on to it, don't you? Yeah, absolutely. You know, even in your thoughts, you just, you just hold on to it. Yes, something that might be, you think you've given the example before about, can I even just, something as simple as just put something in the bin type of thing, or that kind of thing, it does, it can be, it's different milestones, it's different, it's a different pathway, but it can be, can be just, just as rewarded. Yeah, and I think it's that way where most of these things come where you're not expecting it, it's different way in, if you've been trying to, to teach something over and over and over and over, it's still a great moment when they get it, but it's where it just comes out and know where, where it is, opening their packet of crisps, putting something in the bin, and it, it is just that kind of massive pride that you kind of feel to think, because I think it has gone back to that whole initial diagnosis, you're almost kind of thinking that there's okay like, worst case scenario sort of thing, there's, you've not got a lot of hope, and I think it's just through them that you build that hope up again, and they do a lot of things that surprise you, and that you're so proud and make you very happy, so, and I think that's the, the kind of reality of it, that it's not, with our kids, it's not just like a delay, and I think that's what other people don't understand as well, it's not as if they're just going through a kind of delay development, it's like a lifelong condition, and I think it gets more, it's not obvious now, I think at first when our kids are still going through a lot of the same stuff as other kids at their age, but I think so, ashen 7 now, you kind of get to that point now where, what's he going to do eventually in terms of, he can't always just go to software, play all these sort of things and again it's the whole birthday party thing where at first it was good whether it was I mean a lot of this and I wouldn't take them to different birthday parties but if it's a soft play it's okay well that's maybe potentially manageable but it's not just getting to the point where they're getting older it's kind of what is going to be able to cope with but I think that one of the things just kind of touching the whole kind of misconceptions is and oh personally that I would still rather be included as much as possible even though 99% at the time I'll probably say Ash didn't cope doing that or I wouldn't be able to bring ash into that and much rather feel included with all of these events and I appreciate it's a difficult thing for friends to ask you because it's something that you can overthink they'd be thinking oh do we want to say to Andy for him to feel bad to say no sort of thing but I feel that personally you'd rather always be asked to these things 100% yeah I think it's a tricky one that because on the other side of it it's not always easy to be because obviously you want people it's nice that they might understand the limitations of what you're trying to cope with and what will be good for them what wouldn't be good for them but it's kind of it's it would I don't you mean it would be nice to sort of at least be I have be able to make that that's it because I've done the other thing we've been you know being invited to something and being like not he's going to absolutely hate that and then like do you know what I'll go for the last 15-20 minutes and as it turns out he had a great time and I think you never really knew where it's going to go they surprised you don't they I think we keep those something I think that we look at especially is you know we have we've thought about like routines and planning and stuff like that all and we have to almost kind of you know we're thinking about how our child is going to fit in in these scenarios you know if it if it is a party you know for me from if my oldest is invited to a party my head instantly goes to write what's the where's the exits is it one exit or is it multiple exit who's going to man that you know is one parent just take them or is it going to be both of us if it's both of us we're going to need to take you know siblings or you know when it kind of goes on from there so it can be very you know daunting when you get but you know I think like you said Andy I think is better to be included if you if possible you know and if you if you do say no you know what a lot a lot of the time he can't really do much about it you know you know you know what you know benefit your child you know what would detriment your child and depending on how you know the mood of your child on that day you may be more inclined to go or not you know but I think I would I would I would 100% say you know always try and include children with ASN because you know they'll play different you know they'll do they'll do different things but that's an opportunity to learn you know and I think it's an opportunity for your child to learn it's an opportunity for other people's children to learn opportunities for adults to see things in a new light and bridge that gap we're talking about you know yeah I think it comes back to us really they're not they're all different as well so you know that that's maybe another common misconception that they are you know they don't they all hate noise which isn't necessarily look at this it's a lot of these things that you can kind of you can look at as sort of assumptions or things that get kind of peddled and people don't know the ins and outs of it and it's different for every individual and I suppose it would give you a chance to if you did get sort of made a way of that asked like you can then ask a bit more about may I vent what's having any people are in the media or way about it says it that kind of thing you're talking about you know the surroundings and everything else and is at a point of it is lately a bit quieter for me that's something I would always ask you to kind of take it from there but yeah having the options definitely definitely the starting point yeah I mean I can remember I was um it brought these birthday I went to the store play that time I think it was one of times I kind of highlighted it and it was it was quite busy it it's a jungle creek yeah and I think the difference was like so obviously we had some of our friends in as well and it was that way of like all the kids were able to play and sort of play the dads could just sit at the table whereas we were having to kind of run about this awfully with the kids and literally not spend any time at the table and having that way of coming down just as if we had to experience the full thing whereas everyone else they always sit and have a coffee and have a good catch up but I think that's a difficult thing that it is just 24/7 yeah these sort of things that is once the kind of reality sets in that there isn't many breaks um with it all um and the exact you said as well it's it's not just me saying a lot it's asked in versus kids without additional needs it's all the different kids are just so different sort of thing like that's not me saying that every single you go to an ASN event every single parent has chased their kids through a soft place sort of thing like there's so many different strengths and weaknesses or so many differences um I mean if I was to look at different things so there's you'll have different kids who maybe have struggle with their eating things like that where it's obviously a huge problem that they're not able to eat it and thought that and and it's obviously a very difficult problem but then on the flip side of that you'll have like like action for example so his appetite is that he'll just eat any any until he's full and basically until he's sick and obviously it's a complete other side of the spectrum for that but again it's not a nice kind of problem to have either to be like oh because it eats it's okay um that's yeah I think it is even comparing different kids with additional needs there's so many different kind of ups and downs for them all um I think just to touch on what you're saying now like I look at my my three and like I remember we went to a party probably about maybe three or three weeks ago or something like that they they play in completely different ways you know they operate in different ways you know Matt my eldest you know he's the flight disc so he likes you know one time at that venue he's not past the um attendant who was watching the gate it's not past walk through a room and jump into this room with his people close on um you know so um we we were watching him like a hawk but um our stepdaughter she is quite independent in that sense she we we say that she adopts humans she just adopts families um you know she she goes and she joins other families and um plays and stuff like that and um so that's how she thrives in that kind of environment and she desires kind of a lot of affection whereas our oldest I don't think he would care and all honesty and that's not a reflection on my eldest but I don't think you know he would care if you know we we clap their hands that he'd done a trick on the bounty castle or something like that I think he would just look at as if we're you know where's my foot I think that's what he would think but um and in my youngest he just runs about but he'll try and like sneak off and really they're really small areas of the hall or um he will take off his socks and shoes and try and strip that's where he is in his journey at the moment you know so you have to there's so many different things you have to consider and that like like you're saying you know and something that I remember ages ago that I talked to with my partner was a common misconception is you know if you're if you're child is a tistic they are not stupid you know they're very intelligent you know and you know I look at my oldest he is you know he could give who the air on for his money honestly I swear he's phenomenal um like but the way his brain can process you know thing like little opens to get out of it's I find it fascinating you know and my stepdaughter she you know she's and she like remembers things like when she was so young and I'm like I don't remember what I've done yesterday and she's reminding me of this thing that we've got in two weeks time and like okay sure um and then you know my youngest he at the moment is going through all of the other several times known to man um singing them and he's like pointing at me to singing stopping me when I'm going too far and all of these types of things and doing different voices and if I don't match the the same voices he does is wrong when he starts again you know so I just I find that there's you know I find children with ASN and I was lucky enough that my best friend has brought his younger brother has additional support needs um so I kind of grew up with it and I was quite lucky but I consider myself quite lucky because I learned a lot before I met my oldest in my stepdaughter you know I learned a lot how to how to communicate how to how to help when he's you know stressed and all of these types of things so I think they try it like we were saying you know no matter the misconception no matter the myth being being open and being transparent and you know being open to new routines new ideas it's so important you know it's really as interesting the way that it is essentially there's no you see there's people that would assume that there's a lack of a tailoring set on some people that would assume that they're the opposite. I apologize. The people that would presume the opposite of what they must have, they must be really good at this. The next thing, it's interesting that they're all just kind of perceived life differently. One of your kids perceives life as a life-sister constant series of gaps that you can do. I don't know if you could do things like that. The volgot just is slightly different. I've seen things and sometimes that obviously can distress them, to schedule it and everything else, but sometimes it is really, I would give anything to just see the world for a day through my voice. It'd be so fascinating and probably pretty hilarious as well, a lot of the time, because yeah, it's just wonder when the world goes on. Definitely, I think it'd probably be something that's probably pretty overwhelming for us if we were to see it through their lens, if the world would just look at them like you are absolutely after your rock. Definitely. Something I wanted to ask, do you guys get a lot of, again, talking about kind of misconceptions? Do you guys get people kind of, if you're trying to maintain a bit of control or stop the kids getting too excited or whatever? Obviously, you use a new example in terms of if he's eating and he wants to keep eating or be yourself with your daughter. You should actually adopt to other families. If you're trying to bring them back from that, you often get a lot of other people be like, "Oh no, it's okay, it's fine, it's fine." And then you always feel like they don't see the back end of it whereas we're all the stops, that's when it's going to be the life and sick and that's not. Because you're kind of returning them to baseline, aren't you? Then it's something that for us, using different types of calming techniques is paramount, like my stepdaughter, she can't handle timers, if she sees the time going down, panic stations, it just goes off whereas there's other children out there that a timer is soothing and it comes them and once they see the times up, they can move on. In that sense, you're happy enough that a family has been nice enough to really come over and tell them what they're talking about and include your child and those activities. But at the same time, you're trying to establish that baseline and be in like, listen, we're leaving in five minutes, we're doing this when it comes over, start getting ready. It's difficult, and people will naturally, I feel the way that even all of these parties, I just want to jump in and paint as many of these children as I can possibly do. If I see a child that did not, the first thing I think that I've got is I want to go over and ask them what's wrong. So I can kind of understand that on that aspect where you sit now and I know that if a child was over, you know, coming over to me and I've had it before, we had our oldest up at Glasgow Children's, a few nights, it was a few nights ago. But there was another autistic child that was coming over and trying to take off his shoes. Take off your bushes. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. So because he was sitting in his wheelchair, so he was trying to take off his shoes and the mother kind of noticed and ran over and she was absolutely like, you know, on distressed, like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I was like, it's fine. It's absolutely no bother. And that way I sat there and I went, well, you know, in my head I'm going, you know, people say it's fine to me and I'm going, well, it's not. Yeah. Because this is how I process it. And I'm like, well, you know. And there is, it does, there's probably, I say to that, like, from a kind of vulnerability, point of view as well, that I can remember it was one of the ones we used to go to. There was a kind of bouncy castle on it and I got dragged on to it and so that I just, another kid that was here just came up and started kind of trying to bounce with with myself, type of thing. And in his moment, come over and like, dragging him away, dragging him away, type of thing like, sorry, he just, he kind of gravitates towards essentially adult meals, kind of thing. And I was like, I don't worry, I don't worry, I don't worry, I don't worry, I don't worry about that. I mean, you kind of think about it, there is obviously, there's also a vulnerable, vulnerable kind of sight to that as well. So it is going to be, again, just trust, trust the parents, trust the, trust the judgement at the end of the day. Yeah. I'd say so and just kind of going back to what you were saying about the whole, you're trying to calm them down. And I think it's that we're probably a gullty of it as well. Like, I know like, if it's within another kid, you're almost like, you're no, it's fine. I don't mind them doing this sort of thing, but it is that whole, this is going to affect the rest of the night. And it's similar to, I think we had the conversation before we glen how glen has this great routine for Elijah for sleeping it's that way of, or do you have that one night and just really pushed about and reasonably can start late tonight, whereas that one night of sleeping later that time can affect the entire week. And then time one can completely throw that routine out. So it's almost the death that I don't think people realize how important that routine is, how important you not skipping it for that one night for the sake of one night and how difficult it is to then get back into that routine, have a thing you've built up for. It's something that's difficult, I would say in terms of that. I wish I was kind of more structured ourselves. I think glen's obviously got it spot on with that. I don't know, quite literally just to talk, just to add on what you're saying. I don't know of how you guys feel about this, but anytime family, you know, family members, watch your child, do they stick to the routine or do they kind of allow them to stay up a bit longer? Because I know something that it does hurt me a little bit sometimes because I'm sitting there going, you know, we talk about all the time she must have a step daughter. She loves her tablet. She will stay on it all day if you let her. So we have to constantly kind of phase out, phase out and do it until it is and then bring her back to it. But at the moment we have a negative routine of we take it off at 7 o'clock, you know, she starts to do a nighttime routine. So her nighttime routine, it's the same thing every night. So no matter if she's feeling, you know, kind of stuffed up or not, she needs to have vapor up on her chest. You know, she needs to have, what is it like, Sudakrim on a she needs to have a jam, she needs to brush her teeth. She needs to set up her bed exactly the way she wants it set up. But there will be times when we come back from, you know, an event or something like that or the hospital was an example we came back from the hospital. And it was like, well, you know, all she's, she fell asleep at about 11 o'clock and I'm like, all right, okay, did you take your tablet off of her? No. And I'm like, okay, I don't know if you guys are in a similar position, but it can be difficult. Yeah, it can't. And not the exactly the same thing, but I would say that when Ashton was younger, the difficult thing is with family or anyone that's kind of been watching Ashton or not that time, it almost feels that you've been kind of condescending because I don't know what you guys, you tattooed this big list of how to do with all these different behaviors. And it's almost that way as if like, as far as I know how to watch a kid, don't need that. But as you need to say to them, no, you need to realize that this is a different type of kid here sort of thing like you need to realize exactly what to do. If this happens, this happens, you need to understand what this communication means. All these sort of things, so it's that way you're trying not to come across condescending, but you're also trying to get them a survival guide and how to basically be able to to kind of cope. But I think family wise, I think it is just that we've said before it was all about asking questions and then just really obviously getting to know Ashton and knowing all these we kind of interest is that is. I was quite fortunate when my parents used to look after both of the quite regularly for all every six weeks or so for an overnight, but they were very much like, right, what's the routine? What's the instructions? And as much as he's very routine based at that point, the routine would change all the time and there would be kind of tweaks on it and different times and stuff. And at result, they were always like quite kind of right, but I went excellent and out 99 times out of 100. They was, I like to slip it, it's selected as usual, time usually slept longer from the morning. That kind of thing, so I think it's like you say it's you're not being condescending and it's probably to the people who have put yourself or you know, put Ashton's parents to bed when they were young. But it's these three things can be a survival guide that you say. Yeah, definitely. I think it's that way. I think that's one of the things that people don't realise, there's probably an image that they kind of, essentially the public see of the kids, but then they don't kind of understand the kind of behind the scenes of the 24/7 vigilance style, the whole, that's not as if you're going to the house, you can be like, I'm just going to go to the one watch TV, he can just potter about downstairs and do his own thing. It's as eventually as soon as they wake up in the morning until bedtime, it's literally non-stop vigilance. I mean, if I was to go to work with Ashton, which I try to kind of do as much as possible with him just now, but still that way of, He can't just walk himself, I need to literally grab his hand a full time because at any moment you could just dart onto the road, you could do anything. And I think that's the, it's the small things like that that we probably don't talk about as much, that things like that in your life that you just got on with. Which people probably don't understand at least the kind of the high stress things because just because you do it every day, it's just, it's not just a walk to the shop, it's not just going into the supermarket because they'll grab every other shelf and knock everything down all this sort of stuff. It is a case of getting to the town, not being able to just self-check it because all the things you've bought are empty already sort of thing. So yeah. I guess one is one of those people with, we know without the, they can't even live up on that. We'd hear that in a lot of them be like, "Yes, that's just kids though." And they don't, they don't realise like, "Yeah, you know what's difficult kids will do these things." And then they'll stop. Yeah. Or they'll do it to a certain extent, whereas everything is just amplified and it's on the go and it's all the time. And it's also these kids are getting bigger as well. Yeah. It's that way I've like, I like, it's like the mind of a toddler. Yeah. Yeah, obviously larger. Oh yeah. Like I still have my oldest, he's, he's obviously his 90s. So the way he done me was what, 54 kilograms? So he's like a, he's a big jumpy out in, he's, he's, he's hitting, he's sort of about 5 foot, 5 foot 1 now. And he'll still come up to me like, I was sitting on the couch and he'll climb on my shoulders and he'll come up and run around the room with him and I'm like, like, honestly every time it happens, I'm like, well, that's a few years off, my, off my, you know what I mean? That's like, I asked if I was sitting with my legs crossed, watching TV, I was just coming to sit on my leg and nearly like, lunch me off the couch sort of thing. And I've been climbed on a few times and the knees ended up somewhere I really could do without having a knee put. So yeah, it's, they get bigger but they don't realise. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, you wouldn't shit, you wouldn't change. That's up to that, you know, and every time, every time I do it, I sit there and I go, I'm like, 'Genewise, he's having a great time, you know?' and, yeah, he's, he's currently, you know, he's, he's, he's all done and made around the house with him on his shoulders. You know, we're probably a combined, a combined 10, 11 feet tall at this point. And, you know, trying to, trying to slowly, under the, under the, under the door frame, you know, so he doesn't ram his head against it. And, yeah, but, you know, I think when we talk about misconceptions and myths, there's so many to possibly cover. Like, I'm, I know that we had a lot of responses from the chat as well. So, I can go through them, we can even just kind of chat through them. There's definitely plenty through here as well. The only other one that I would probably touch on is quickly with Ashton. And, no, it's probably the same for Prody as well as that. I don't know if you ever found it at all in terms of this is probably more of a kind of misconception. Kind of within the ASN community and without sort of thing. And, I would rather, about, because Ashton's got speech sort of thing and he is able to kind of communicate in a limited way. Because it almost is, like, it's not as severe in like that, whereas just because he can talk to a relative amount, he can't really have any sort of conversation or he can communicate in words. I mean, he can talk in 20 different languages and through multiple YouTube videos. But, it's almost that way of, they kind of speech thing you always worry about. Is it, is he going to get as much support? Because as soon as they say, he can speak. It's like, oh, it's not as severe or these sort of things. I don't know if you've ever had any like that. People tend to take this out of look at it as, like, it's verbal and norvenverbal. And I don't think, I certainly would brody, I don't think he fits in either box week. We usually kind of describe it. Kind of, he's verbal but he's not conversational type of thing. And he's got ways of saying things in his way. And we've almost kind of got to tell whoever it is, what that means. I mean, it's even happened in the, in the, in the, the doctors that it was a, a surgeon doctor that then he just ran up to them and we just like say hi to, and just got right in her face. And I'm like, that's him kind of asking your name. You need to tell him your name, the time I think. But it's, it's, it's that kind of thing of, of, again, just because the learner in a different race and learning different things at different times, it's, it's too easy to, to assume the race. He's got words that, you know, I think it can be really difficult in the sense that, you know, there's so many different classifications out there, you know, to try and split your, check, check, your, where your child falls into. And, you know, people will look at it and go like, I know for, you know, people ask, you know, all your oldest can, can he talk? And I'd be like, to a certain extent, if you want to know what the pop patrol's been up to lately, biomeans, you know, ask him, ask, ask away. But I think, you know, it can be really hard, because, you know, people a bit, and they'll give you the, oh, it must be really tough, you know. And, and, and, and I regard, you know, I think you have to take it as, yes, but at the same time, sometimes you don't, these people don't see all the great things that happen. And like you were saying before, you know, it can be something as simple as putting your child put in something in the bin, or something that you've been teaching for so, so long. Like, I know, um, was it my stepdaughter when she eventually got a finished her potter training? Like for me, I was like, I've never done this before, that was awesome. You know, I remember I used to just get kind of, I just get kind of picked up when I was a kid and put on the potter, and that was that, whereas it was a whole completely different process, you know, and she, she, she deals with things differently. She would get almost so flustered in the thought of it, and she would hold, hold on until she couldn't hold on any longer before something happened, you know. So I remember when we finally got that, you know, in true, in true, finally, I was able to do the toilet. It was such a monument, a moment, and we were talking before you hold on to these, you know, and it gets you through, um, you know, but I think like the so many kind of, um, myths and misconceptions that classify your child, and I'll, and I'll, I know, in a world that is not fully yet prepared for our children, you know. It's a really good way of putting this, really. It's going back to the kind of, that's actually anything as well, like you ever get this sort of, oh, I'm sorry to hear that or, yeah, kind of like, what, why, why you look, it's, uh, it can be difficult, but at the end of the day, as long as the, as long as the kids are happy, that's the, that's the sort of mean thing, isn't it? One thing I did, I don't know, I'm sorry, it was something that's come up with a few things that I think is common misconception as well, is about screen time. And because it is very important for a lot of, again, not all, but a lot of, a lot of our kids did to sort of regulate and, um, kind of, you know, almost have that sort of familiarity and all that kind of thing, that I think it's a common misconception that, ah, you're just sticking in there from a tablet or whatever it might be, and certainly just beginning for myself, it can be quite an important part of the routine and can be quite an important, that's how they learn a lot of the times, like they will seek out things that, that they have, you know, sensory sort of feedback from and things that they, they, they kind of enjoy as well as, as learn from, but, um, well, you do need to kind of, uh, curb it to an extent that it can be, it can be quite important, I think they use a hundred percent. And I've always kind of thought that with Ashton, that the one thing about having the kind of, the phone or the tablet, it's almost like that's the kind of one thing that he has, like, kind of, not full control over, but he can decide when to start, when to stop, what to watch, skip, back forward sort of thing, he kind of, kind of control on his own kind of world, where I was obviously a lot of other things in life have to be obviously highly controlled by either myself or Cheryl, um, because it is that way of, obviously between us that it's always, there's always has to be one of us kind of on them, making sure everything's okay and it's not always a case of making sure he's not going to do something wrong, it's more making sure that he's safe and making sure that he isn't going to do what we touched on earlier, he's not going to get too high, too low and it's going to lead into a meltdown or any sort of self-harming, so it's your kind of, there'll be certain activities that you're on the edge, whereas when they are on the phone, when they are watching their sort of videos, you know, they're kind of in their own kind of happy place, um, it's, it could be a coping mechanism, you know, or I think for, um, my oldest especially since he's out of school at the moment, for him, it's like you said, it's almost like a learning platform, you know, he's learning different vocabulary and you know, hopefully the process will be for him to then learn how to use said vocabulary and sentences, you know, but he's spicking up on that sort of stuff, you know, there's, like he's quite a fan of, um, is it number blocks and stuff like that, um, obviously he's usual, pop patrol, Thomas the tank engine, etc, but you know, all of these things, whether it's interactive games, whether it's videos, the, you know, screen time, it can be hard because you sit them going, if you were to just kind of blankly say, oh my child's been on his tablet for about 10 hours a day, they turn around and you go, have you paid attention to your trip today? Like is, was that happening? But at the same time, you know, if plans change regularly, you know, if your plan is going into the park next and you know, because we're in Scotland, it can be all four seasons and one day, um, you know, it can't be a coping mechanism. Yeah, I think that definitely for, we probably wouldn't go out with Ash and I they were now without having that in the bag on the port because where it is some going wrong you go somewhere it's closed or something like that, that's the one thing that can take them back to a happy place and can regulate them but you can get them there as well like having that sort of and having them with you know something to keep them in a tent in the car. Yeah, to tell you to get to the place that you're trying to get to is it's important. Don't be wrong, it can give you a wee break every now and again. Well that's a bit of some tents though as well because it's intense like you do need that break but yeah. Well we go through some of the dad's responses. Some of the yeah the community, the community complaints we can go through yeah, I was here. We don't quite expect. Well we did expect as much as yeah. So yeah I'll just go through some of these so some are talking about people that would kind of judge safe foods that kids have so essentially certain kids would only eat McDonald's or only eat fat certain fats foods or crisps. You'll have people saying things like if they're hungry enough they'll eat what you're putting in front of them and obviously you know that's not the case it's more. Take it as at least 13. That's 100%. I'll be honest that's the way we kind of look at it like my oldest he's had smoked sausage and chips for the last four months. So have you called back to last week? Yeah, yeah. I'm saying nothing. But we're trying there's quite a lot of these to go through so I'll try and go as quick as possible but I think we've obviously said before like things when people say all the grow out of it for just a late developer. I think we've obviously touched on but again yeah just as bad things not to say. Yeah. I think one of the ones it's quite important. He as well and I think it does highlight that is a spectrum of so many different levels where you'll get some people that will say things like autism's a superpower. Whereas one of the dads is kind of put that I wouldn't really say eating rubbish off the floor or just meeting an app in the walls of superpower. I can obviously know it for some people. There is a lot of benefits to it but it does also kind of dismiss the kind of massive daily struggles into the kids and the parents face as well. I think there's nothing wrong with looking at autism in a very positive light. I think you have to know what they're children with. I think a lot of the time my thought process goes to this world that we're living in. I'm struggling and I've gained it and I'm class is no typical and that's arguable. But what's it like for our children? Yeah, that's completely different so. That's kind of if he's onto the next one is he doesn't look autistic. What does it look like? My oldest why don't you autism real quick for us? Yeah, that's what I've had that thought many a time gone through a cues with the sunflower on your dough and stuff like that. Sure might have gone up. Exactly. The next one we've got here is things like isn't your kid a bit big for that buggy? Because obviously that is essentially what is class is a wheelchair style. It just looks like a larger buggy because although with our kids we're seeing earlier on if you're walking with them you're having to grip on them the full time which probably isn't enjoyable as much for them either. If they're actually strapped into a buggy then they can actually get about a lot of places they're not having to walk. I'll be sort of. I have stuff to touch on that one. I've had someone before. It was a Christmas fair. I asked me why. I asked me in a very nice way and I was like well in all honesty they could either go in this or I need to lift up 50 or kilograms of dead weight when he's not happy. So I'm taking the buggy. Definitely. There's people aren't doing it for no reason. There's much I'm not saying as well. I don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't ask them like that. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, yeah. Have a good, have a good thing first. There's a lot of things on here about just kind of a lot of implications out there that people might exaggerate or diagnose is just to get support or that people give up their careers just to be lazy and stay at home sort of thing which is obviously couldn't be. I do know I feel like that one is very difficult. My career at the moment, I don't work at the moment in it. It sucks because you don't have that kind of work life. It's almost like a social life. You know when you're focusing on doing, putting money away. It's a good thing as well. Yeah, it can be a good thing. You know what? It's definitely my plan when they think it back into work. But with how my children are at the moment, I feel like I'm best placed at home. Does it make me lazy, maybe, do I like to line up on my switch for a few hours? Yeah. The ball. No, I think you're looking after your child's best interests and whether that is you being there for the majority of the day then. Yeah, of course. One of the next points that a few people raised was in terms of things that they would want to say to kind of be like friends in the life or family members. Things like it takes two seconds to send a text message to ask how you are the kids are doing. So many friends and family members just don't bother. I think that's a difficult one because obviously, again, we've said it's a difficult subject to approach. I think in terms of kind of having that text message, I'd also say that it's a 2-way street. Almost you need to invite them into it because I would try to get it difficult if I wasn't the parent of a child with additional needs to know the kind of right word, so I'd kind of the right venue to say do you want to go and do this event whereas. I'm guilty of this one. I am like, just so many times I sit there and go, you know, nobody's message like an age or whatever and I'm like, everything when they just don't care. I sit there and go, well, I don't message them either, so. You know, I'm a bit of a hypocrite in that one, so I'll take that one. I'll take that one as a you do you, yeah? feel included and I feel going to say no and maybe from that other person's perspective they're like well they're just gonna say no anyway there's no point you know but actually makes a difference yeah definitely in the last one I've got here from the dads is just an overall realization that with the situation that we're in with the kind of kids that we have that you're your overall circle shrinks massively and that's why a lot of the dads have found it beneficial having the dads group having a lot of other parents in there and it's just gonna understand what you're going through because it has seen that a lot of people have lost friends and lost family members and stuff so I think it is beneficial to kind of find your find your community to try and I would say I think it's hard to say to find to find lost you know people grow distant I would say you know I a lot of my you know friends at university and you know close friends that I had at school they've kind of all gone their separate ways and there's time for us to go where I've got a very small circle of friends but at the same time I'm in a period where you know I'm bringing up children I'll move I might move on to then a career path in the next five-ten years and they might decide to have children and then you know it will flap so he just is kind of I think it's just part of life yeah sucks but I think so yeah it shrinks to an extent and it kind of remains to an extent as well and you kind of yeah the the the real ones are always there to be with him definitely yeah so I think we've always went through quite a lot on today's episode I mean if there's anyone else out there that's got any myths or misconceptions or any sort of bad advice or comments or anything that we've missed out in darkly humorous stories about silly things people have said yes then yeah drop us a message Instagram Facebook and we can look to include it on a future show as at the end of every episode we tend to shout out a place that a lot of our children like to go to and this week we've decided that we're going to shout out Monty's farm in Helen's Bra it's a wonderful area they've got outdoor activities and a bouncy balloon and they've got they've got animals that you can walk around and feed and then they've got an indoor play area with kind of one exit which is really ideal and they have a shop they've got plenty of things to keep your child entertained and we spoke to me in my partner we spoke to the lady who was in charge and we said that we were doing in this podcast and she said if there's anything, any questions anybody would like, they could go go them and reach out, they're very open and honest with these things and you can also get semi-annual passes, same that we've got at the moment for our child. So there's a lot of, you can also sign up for Monty's mates which is an email list and they will send you out ASN specific sessions in the dates etc for when that is. So again that's Monty's farm and that's down in Helensburg. Excellent, it's not a place I've, again not a place I've been to but a place I've quite late to check out. I would highly advise it at the ASN sessions in particular are very good. That's what we've got. Yeah, yeah, they're very good. They're normally I think they're around about maybe like three to five or around about that time frame. So this after everybody has been in play, they obviously do sessions that are, you know everybody's welcome and I think it's a very reasonable price, the foods great, you know the animals are brilliant, you can see Highland cows, there's goats, there's sheep, there's pigs, chickens, all that sort. So if your children love that sort of stuff, bio means I would highly recommend that. Sounds like a winner. So yeah, again that was Monty's farm so that's basically all we've got time for this week on ASN Dev Chat. Thank you very much for listening and we will speak to you next week. See you next week. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening. If you want to get involved or get in touch with us you can find us on Facebook or Instagram under ASN Dev Chat. [BLANK_AUDIO]