Episode 9: Disinformation, AI and Fact-Checking in Elections (Season 2)

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For 23 years, Ionus has been redefining what it costs to get your business online starting with a dot com domain for a dollar or free with the right plan. Learn more at Ionus.com/podcast. You have options when forming a business. The attorney who charges more than your revenue, the online forum where strangers argue what's right. After 25 years and 5 million businesses launched, legal zoom knows what a wrong move can cost. We don't just file or with you after launch with independent attorneys and business managers ready to help. When you meet a legal hand, visit legal zoom. Legal zoom provides access to independent attorneys and self-service tools. Legal zoom is not a law firm, it's not provide legal advice. Hello, hello. Hello. Eve is just, I think this is the first time in four and a half years that Eve has given us a very specific production directives. What are we doing? We've got to pause for some corporate measures at 12 minutes, past 12 minutes, but well, it gives us a bit of time, doesn't it? Thank you, Eve. It's been a long time coming, but we do welcome your firm instruction. I like it, actually. More of that, please. Do you really mean that? Just more of that makes God do you know? Some people are very across secrets, aren't they? I just know. I just never remember what's meant to be a secret or not. It makes lying very, very, very unwise. She just can't remember who it is, you've never said anything to. I mean, generally speaking, lying isn't the right route, but let's just be honest. No, we all do it. But some people are very good at it. Some people can spin that in their head, can't they? They can just remember what it was that they pretended they're done or not done or be nice or whatever. It's just can't remember anything, Jane. Would you call it lying? We had a conversation on the live radio show yesterday with a Republican representative from the United States. He wasn't so much lying. He's just sticking very firmly to his truth, to his version of the truth. And it's really unsettling. He wasn't rude. He wasn't unpleasant, in fact. That was one of the things that made the whole interaction. Even more disturbing. And you do wonder, what are these people going to feel about the way they've conducted themselves in a decade's time? I'm sure I've said versions of this before, but I don't understand where these people are going to go when it's all been put through the ringer. We as a globe come to terms with Trump and the legacy of, as you were saying in that conversation, the amount of money his family has made and he's made and the world's just going to, honestly, it is going to hell in a handcart. I think what's becoming is increasingly obvious. How much should you are with Trump? It's welcome back, Jane. Well, no, I'm with you. No, we've got to face it. We've got to face it head on. I think what's becoming a patiently clear in his refusal to condemn the actions of Putin is the direction of travel for the Trump administration. Because I think here we so clearly see what happens with the invasion of Ukraine. We so clearly empathise with the Ukrainian people. I think we feel that threat very close to us, don't we? And so we haven't wanted to believe that you could possibly have somebody in a massive, massive position of power went, yeah, that's fine. Absolutely fine. But it is becoming clear that Donald Trump sees something in the strong man of Vlad that he respects. The guy yesterday who you interviewed and you did a brilliant job taking him down over his hypocrisy. Well, he didn't really take it. I think he was Ukraine, China and Russia. And he couldn't link up the three things, successful at all. And actually it was Iran, wasn't it? He couldn't seem to work out a very simple question about did involvement in a war against Iran. What is the parallel that you see with not wanting to defend Ukraine? He couldn't join those dots at all. But then he also couldn't join the dots of the fact that life is not better for the average American having invested in these foreign wars that he promised that he wasn't going to. He kept on saying no, everything's absolutely fine. And people shopping baskets aren't more expensive and there isn't a diesel crisis. And it's just like, no, there is mate. I mean, there just is. But the proof will be in the pudding when the mid-term elections happen in a week or so's time. But already, apparently, I read in the times that Donald Trump is preparing to say, oh, well, they've all been rigged. So what do you expect? And all of a sudden, we go, it's like being on a mad, mad out of control merry-go-round. It's like being on the teacops, you know, just it is just swirling around and you can't see an end inside. And the madness just keeps on coming our way anyway. It's also like the child he comes to your kid's party, isn't it? And actually eats all the jelly on the table and then denies it and nicks all the presents and then denies it and you catch them giving, you know, somebody Chinese burn and they deny it. And you say to yourself, I don't want to meet that as a grown-up, can we met him? We're not over it. We're not over it. He's endlessly in arch- I'll do the work. God! Right, thank you for some lovely emails. And thank you to everybody who's expressed sympathy to me and to my sister and the rest of the family about my dad dying. It's obviously- we had a very thoughtful email from somebody who says, actually, it doesn't matter what age your parents are. It's still just a dis-properly, dis-convobulating experience. And there's just no denying that, is there? It just does. It changes you, Jane. Yeah, it does. Because it's a question. You lose a part of your identity as somebody's child. And in your case, you have lost that identity twice over the course of a year. And it should change you as well. Oh, yes. That's a good point. It should bring you up a little bit and make you reconsider who you are, where you are in your life, how you conduct yourself, how you've been. And look, I wasn't always the perfect daughter. That my dad and I, in particular, had some hum-dingers over the years. He wasn't a man who embraced feminism. Not sure if you asked him. He actually knew what it was. So he did definitely- I remember him saying to him, try started. Oh, woman's out. He said, God, that's the most depressing programme I've ever heard. My mum was listening out of loyalty because she was a much more, if I'm honest, she was a much more committed follower of both my sister and I, what we did in our lives. There's a lot of mothers are. They just cannot, I mean, it's a wonderful thing. They cannot stop being fully invested in what their children are up to. And I'd like to think I'm the same. But my dad was, shall we say, not quite as involved, not quite as involved. He just didn't get what I was on about, you know, the third wave of feminism had completely passed in bind. So there were all the other waves. Who's in the shallows went a bit stagnant in the ponds by a raid? Very much in the shallows. But that's not to say that he was actually, he was a classically, do you know what he was? He was reliable. And that's a very underrated quality, I think. People are a bit scornful of people who are reliable. But he was. If he said he was going to pick you up from somewhere, he bloody well did. Well, isn't that what you want in a parent's life? No, it is. You don't want to ever question your parents' reliableness. So you don't want your dad to be interesting? Is the truth? Or either of your parents really? You don't want them to be shaman or crazy mavericks. You just want them to turn up in their anorak at the time. They said they'd be there to take you, take your home. And so those sorts of qualities are hugely underestimated. And you're very fortunate, as I have been, if you have them in your life, I think. So let's hear it for all those old-school dads who did the do. Yes, my dad never showed up once, didn't he? Okay, well there we are. So I'm actually going to put some some toughenies worth into that conversation. And I honestly, so I'm not questioning that for you at all. No, absolutely not. I actually really, really, really agree with it. My dad was a completely different kettle of fish. So people at his funeral and his Thanksgiving service, we hadn't really known a lot of his friends very closely because he lived abroad. So in a way, he'd had a completely different life to a life as my dad. You know, he had just not been with us all that much. Which is not to say that I didn't love him just as much as if he'd been there every night. And it's not to say that I didn't wish actually quite often that he had been there every night. But it was really, really interesting, Jay, because people came over and said things about Dad that were just eye-popping. And he was not really the most reliable of Chaps. And he was charismatic. And I remember a really lovely old friend of his, a woman, who had known through her husband for a very long time. She said, if your dad turned up at a party or an event, you just knew you were going to have a better time. And she said, you know, he just lit up, he just did, you know, he could tell jokes and anecdotes and stories and all that kind of stuff. He was not in the slightest bit reliable. And I think for all of those people who are listening, who've had one of those parents, actually, there's a lot to be said for that too. You have to find your reliability somewhere else. I think a lot of kids of that kind of parent, hunker down very, very soon in life. I definitely bought a flat, you know, where my friends weren't buying flats. And I couldn't really afford to buy a flat. I needed to shove my own foundations even though. But I think there are, I think parents who doesn't always change people. And you come to realise the old you get that that just happens. It just happens. And it doesn't mean that you love them any the less. I think there comes a time, and I'm sure I'm at it now, when you can no longer, you cannot honestly blame your parents for anything anymore. Oh, totally. I really agree with your current. And do you know sometimes when you do, I find it very sad actually, when people of our age and our generation, as in, you know, people who've had kids or, you know, you're the generation above young adults now. And they're having little tiny ones of their own when they are still caught in the trap of what happened to them. As, you know, I don't want to say the hands of their parents because obviously sometimes that's absolutely awful. But I'm with you. I think you do just sometimes have to go, well, this is my life now. Yes, I've dug this hole. And I take on board what happens. But actually, am I going to live that? No. Life, let it go. Let it go. And that's not to say, of course, I'm suddenly like I'm backtracking. Some people have wretched childhoods and terrible parents. And that's different. Yes. So we are, we're not for a moment, saying, if you've had an abusive child, you'd crush it off. No, but it's more the kind of, I can't help myself because my parents did, you know, X, Y and Z. And sometimes actually they can feel a little bit in a world of savagery, like microaggressions too. Yes, yes, they can. Yes, yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. But can I ask you? And you absolutely just have to say of any of these questions this week or a bit too much. But because you've lost both your parents now, did you, when you lost your mum feel your identity change? Or was there a sense that actually because your dad was still there, you could kind of almost put that back on the shelf. You knew that you were going to have to deal with something else. Did you really, you lost your sense of, I'm somebody's child when your mum died? I don't know, that's really difficult. I mean, there's no doubt that most mother-daughter relationships, most mother-child relationships are not without complexity. But if you're fortunate, and I certainly was with my mum, they are that there's an exchange of information and experiences that most people of my generation didn't have with their dad, not because we didn't, our dad didn't love us or we didn't love them. But because they were, my dad was very much in the mold of the answer to the phone. And then he said, "I'll get your mum." He did, he did talk, but he always knew that was something. He'd find out later from mum what was actually going on. And so when mum died, I still, I keep wanting to ring her. And I'm sure that must be something that, I mean, you know, various things have happened with the children's sins and all the rest of it. Oh yeah, gosh, I haven't told, and then you think, "Yeah, I can't." And that's, I don't think that ever ceases to be anything other than miserable. I'll probably still be thinking about it in 25 years' time. It's just, that's the way it is. I'm sure, with dad, it was very different. My sister and I had to establish a whole new way of, I'm sure I've mentioned this, visiting dad on his own was really extraordinary. It was so strange, because they'd lived together for 63 years. And how on earth did my poor dad go about establishing a routine without my mum in it? He just couldn't. And do you think that, actually, it has been a blessing that he didn't have to spend? Of course I did a lot of time, yeah, of course I do. I think he was really, of course he was. He was really struggling. And do you think that she's had enough of a break before my child? Well, that's what my sister and I have talked about. I think that, and also my Lex, my Lex, my late ex-father-in-law, as well, who I was very fond of. He died a couple of years ago, a very funny man. And I honestly do think of the three of them. They were good friends, they were in spite of the fact that I got divorced. My parents always got on well with my former-in-laws. And I do picture, no, it's laughable. I do picture the three of them, just having a bevy, yeah. And I did say it's stupid, isn't it? So dad, and quite often, actually, after, you know, more, after he had died. And, you know, if we heard that somebody else had died too, then we, you know, we would say, my sister and I, you know, he's gone to join the great four ball in heaven. Yeah, I was, like, I mean, I showed that call very much. And dad was always looking for somebody to make up a four ball. I don't know, you know, what that means, Jamie. I don't know what a four, I think it's a four people ball goal. I think it comes in. No, my dad will be up there playing ball. I mean, God, he used to talk about balls. I mean, it's such a lot for you. And honestly, unless you play balls, it's not really that interesting. No. So actually, what you need is somebody to sit you down as a mediator and say, "K, Jane, you've got to listen to half an hour about balls." Right? You've got to listen to half an hour about feminism. Well, that would have, chance would have been a fine thing. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you that. Yeah. No, but it would have been an interesting hour, wouldn't it? I don't think women's are covered balls that much. I don't think it is the spin-off podcast that everybody wants. We should have done it, shouldn't we? Anyway, it is a strange time. There's no doubt about it. And I think a lot of people will absolutely understand why it is strange. It will get better, it will get easier. And you'll start to remember all the funny things and there will lots of funny things. I mean, my dad was noted for his mind-boggling lack of curiosity. You know, you could quite literally turn up. I doubt your dad was like this from the sound of things. You could turn up with a limb hanging off and dad probably wouldn't reference it. You could have had a radical haircut. You could have lost four-stone or gained four-stone. He wouldn't have said anything about it. I always remember and cherish forever the day after I visited my parents. The day after Diana's funeral, I visited my parents. I went on the train to Liverpool. And bear in mind, I mean, it's crazy now to think about those times, but they were heady days, weren't they? And the funeral itself was just phenomenal. It's global event. Can I just say that many people were giddy-like lottery winners? Let's park that there. Yes, indeed. And I had been working for the BBC on the Mall. One of those commentary boxes watching the funeral procession. And because of the timing, I think I said four sentences and then it was the cortex had moved on. And it was devastating. It was so sad. Poignant. Yes, we went over the top. But it was still bloody sad if you were there. Take my word for it. I went to Liverpool the next day. Dad picked me up at Lime Street. He was a great picker-opper from railway stations in those days. And we said, you know, took my bag, got in the car. And I thought, I'm just going to test him. Let's just see how long we can go driving up the top road back to Crosby and the Northern Burbs before he asked me a question about yesterday. Not a thing. Not a thing. We got about 500 yards. I'm still imperial from the family home and he asked me how the journey had been. But absolutely nothing about what had happened the day before. Now, do you think. I just don't get that. I never will, that that's because. Because he had an interesting life, didn't he? He didn't work for quite a long time in this life. What do you think? I don't know how to put this. I don't want to be read about the tool. It means it sounds like a lovely guy. But do you think, because he wasn't in a working environment for a long period of time? Actually, you do stop. He'd been conditioned out of it. Yes. I don't know. I don't understand where you wouldn't want to vaguely know about something that had happened the day before that your child had been at. It was quite. Yeah, I'm just looking for ways to kind of. No, I mean, he was retired for quite some years. In fact, I would imagine his former employer will have been one of the few people delighted to hear of his demise because that's been spent for 50 years. '80s since 1982, right? That's just unbelievable. I know. So, yeah. And look, he was a great book in lots of ways, because his real quality was in taking pleasure in small things and I've inherited that, and it's a good thing. You know, it's not a bad thing at all if you can be made content quite easily. In fact, it's a gift. Oh, I think it's wonderful. Personally, I think it's the secret to a happy life. I think it almost is, actually. Yeah. And I would say that he did have a really good life up until the last year, which was wretched for him in almost every way. But until then, it had been pretty good. So your vital's app, now with heart rate variability, You could tell you when something is off. And your readiness school can let you know when to rest went to push. Hey, the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch series 12. For general ones, purpose is only not intended for clinical use or to detect diagnosed, monitor or treat medical conditions, requires iPhone 11 or later. Dallas, this one's for you. Aionos helps you get your business online without the tech headache. Right now, it's a chalkboard that blows over every time the wind picks up. With Aionos, you just describe what you need and a real online menu goes live. The same day, no developer, no code. For 23 years, Aionos has been redefining what it costs to get your business online, starting with a.com domain for a dollar or free with the right plan. Learn more at Aionos.com/podcast. Russell brand is currently standing trial on charges of rape and other sexual offences he has pleaded not guilty to them. Reporters from the Times and the Sunday Times will be in the courtroom every single day to watch what happens. Then they'll join me, Blue Jones, in the podcast studio, to unpack everything they have heard. Search for the trial of Russell brand, wherever you get your podcasts. If you like me, have someone in your life or had someone in your life who just wasn't in any way curious. It's not to say he wasn't curious about other things. He always read the sports section every single day. But you're not alone in, and in fact, Annika Rice had the same thing she didn't change, she was talking about her mom. Her mom, despite bringing her up to be immensely independent and really full of beans about life and she'd said, you know, you've got to get your own front door, you've got to be this and you've got to be that. When Annika did remarkable things and became a household name and fulfilled all of her mother's expectations, her mother just never talked to her about it. It would not talk about her career at all. It felt very deliberate. I don't think it's quite the same as my dad who just, as I say, he wouldn't have said anything if I'd got off the train from London with multiple piercings under an emergency. So it wasn't him putting you down or gaslighting your success or anything like that. He just genuinely couldn't, wasn't that interesting? It couldn't be bothered. It was for D. I think the football season probably just started. He was back. We bursted in that. So anyway, people are different, people are strange and we're all different and hey, we're all strange. Yeah, we certainly are. We really are. We certainly are. I just wanted to read one because we have had lots and lots of emails welcoming you back. So I'm just going to pick this one from Nermy from Lewis, but that's not to say that all of the other ones aren't great. I'm so grateful to people just for taking the time. It's, you know, you're busy and it's very touching. So this comes in from Nermy who says, on the train home after a long death work and so very happy to hear James wonderful tones and the two of you back together with Verve. My thoughts as I listen to the beginning, imagine if you're not gone to be with your dad, soldier on, so to speak with your duty to your listeners, not to your dad, what would we have all learnt from that? Whereas with you being brave and honest and showing love and care to your dad and sincerely talking about it on the radio afterwards, now think about what you and we have all learnt. Surely much more for the listener and totally on track with the essence of your podcast are being honest, open and true, journalistic, explorers of life. So that's interesting, isn't it? Because you are curious about life. I try to be at least for money. My mom was very curious. That's where I get it from at the beginning to the end. My heartfelt thanks for sharing and making the topic of death and dying accessible and not something to hide as all that does is bring pain. Welcome back Jane and take care. We are all human thank goodness. And I thought that just summed everything up. Thank you, Naomi. It's lovely. Yeah, and it is absolutely a place for talking about all of the different parts of life. And as we said so many times before, personally, we feel that the worst thing that you can do when somebody dies is to just pretend they haven't. Yeah. And pop them in a box and move the conversation on because it's one of the biggest things. It's the universality of our world so odd if we don't try and share it a bit more. It's properly bonkers. If you just don't talk about it, we are all going to die and we don't talk about death or dying all that much. And if you are fortunate enough, I don't want to repeat what we said yesterday, but if you are fortunate enough to be able to spend those days, hours or weeks with somebody who is who is dying, it's not it's not as scary as you might think. And although it can be challenging, if you can do it and if you feel that you're helping the situation, because obviously, I mean, I need to make very clear. I don't I want to be absolutely honest about this. I wasn't caring for my dad. I was with him in a care home, completely different thing, very, very different thing. If you're caring for a loved one at home, then I am in awe of you if you're able to do that because you have the skills and you're brave enough to do it. Wow, that's incredible. But I'd also just say quickly that people who are wary of care homes are worried about what they might be like or, you know, in some way, they are they have an image that can be a very depressing one. There was a lot of laughter in the care home that my dad was in. He wasn't really well enough to to appreciate that side of things, I should say. But the staff had a great cracking sense of humour fee because where was the care home? It was in Liverpool, but they did. That's the thing. It's a terrible cliche. A human might be available in other care homes in other parts of the country. I'm sure it would be quite so. Anyway, there were residents there who were clearly having a good time and they were having a much better time in that community than they would have been having a home on their told, I would say. So, yes, they're not they're not always really depressing terrible places far from it. Anyway, that's enough. That's enough from me. Well, we welcome all of your experiences. Yes, absolutely. So Jane and Fee at TimeStop Radio is the email address. Now, we were asking yesterday, if any of our listeners in France would like to tell us a little bit about life over there at the moment. And this comes in from Izzy, who is doing exactly that. Izzy says, I'm a teacher at a university in Paris. I'm writing in a personal capacity about my experiences of teaching here during the strikes. We've been very affected over the last few weeks where I work. It's quite concerning. Watching the students leave to attend demonstrations, they do come into university in the mornings before and they carry on my learning and then protest about it and hoping that these will remain peaceful and they will return safely. I teach English language and culture at a small centre attached to Paris non-taire university. The famous one from the 68 protests where the students are training to become librarians, booksellers and all manner of professions within the book industry. They organise days of popular education at the centre during the strike, which included sessions on how to stay safe during protests as well as on the struggling book industry. And I tell you what would be great to know. You do go on say at the end, Izzy, in terms of the wider situation in Paris. I'm sure you'll have lots of other correspondents, but I think I'm not alone in being shocked, sanded and very concerned. Absolutely appreciate you are writing in a personal capacity, not representing the university. But all of that, I think this is what we were saying yesterday, isn't it? It mustn't be forgotten in what have turned into incredibly violent and I think people on both sides admit agitated protests. You know, they've been exacerbated and they buy lots of people coming in from other parts of Paris and with other aims apart from the students' protests. But that says it all doesn't it? The students that Izzy knows are going to lessons in the morning because they still want to carry on learning and then they're going out to what they hope will be peaceful protests later and they've been completely and utterly overtaken by the violence. And it's hard to see what happens now, Jane. It is. Well, it's not looking great. I think Paris, San Germain play tonight in Paris and they're always. They're not afraid by trouble. Or if they lose, there seems to be trouble afterwards. And then there's something planned for the weekend and look, we're not in any way suggesting that this couldn't happen here. It doesn't look as though there's anything about to on fire. I know it's not just France either, the stuff's gone on in Spain, Portugal, Albania. So we're at the moment. Britain seems relatively calm and it's not as if we don't have our own concerns. Izzy says, could you say hello to the students that the Paul de Mietiere d'Ouliv, beautiful Sebel, do you have an A level in French quite D? So yes, I don't know how I got D. You should really have been. What was it? They used to get a U for underappreciated or something or. Yeah, so what's it, what's it? An enthusiastic. You get a U for just not turning up. I think you probably did. Yeah, unclassified, it must have been for. Yeah, it must have been for. Anyway, I hope you're all right, Izzy. And is near Perpignon. She says, "I now live in France. I've done it for 28 years." She is, she should say, originally from Ottley. "Lived in France for 28 years, school strikes have always been part of the landscape here. I remember our son losing a lot of lesson time, just before important exams. But now the problem is Lake Assur, hooligans who jump on board peaceful protest with the intention of writing and vandalism. We live in a small village so we've kept away from the protests, but this is the worst we've ever seen. And thank you for that. And it does sound as though you're relatively safe. And of course you should say, of course, France is a huge country geographically. So most people will not see any of this. But, um, lots of cities are affected. Of course, the other person who were delighted by all this is President Putin. Isn't it strange that, um, don't seem to be these sorts of protests in Russia? Why would that be changed? No, because it's not as if life's perfect there, is it? I think we don't understand the level of propaganda in Russia, do we? And do you remember that film that we all watched? What was that called about the amazing Mr. Nobody? Thank you to God. That was a good film. Yes, it was about the teacher, the teacher, who then decided to be open with the world about the amount of pressure that he was coming under, just in his school, in the middle of Blummanauwa, and it is well worth fishing that out. I think that answers your question about why there aren't protests. Well, people are bloody petrified because it's a completely, it's a totalitarian, ghastly, terrorist state, frankly as simple as that. Anyway, like I say, the world is going to hell in a hand cart that we're still here. But we are still here. Yep. So your vitals app, now with heart rate variability, could tell you when something is off. And your readiness school can let you know when to rest and when to push. Hear the story in every heartbeat with Apple Watch series 12. For general ones purposes only, not intended for clinical use or to detect diagnosed, monitor or treat medical conditions, requires iPhone 11 or later. A lot of people want to defend fees, knees, fees, knees. Pam is in Auckland in New Zealand, where things are also relatively calm. Feature day was not the first time you'd bad mouthed your own knees. No. And it won't be the last Pam. I do sympathise as I too have turnip knees that are from no angle even remotely nice to look at. Try to see mine. I'm going to show them to you now. What do you think is wrong with them relative to other people? Well, look at that. So most people, they don't have a knee. It's actually wider than their leg underneath and their leg above. Well, I could show you mine. And so it's just imagine it. No, you see that those aren't. Look, you've got a slimmer bit there underneath your knee, marginally. Yeah. Yep. And so you've got a nice kind of turn of your leg. You've got a turn of your leg. I don't have a turn of my leg. This is what used to happen when you went to your first Mason's meeting, wasn't it? You'd roll up your trousers. Why do they do that? And reveal, whenever fine acts were not allowed into the lodge. I too, though, have finally come round to being immensely grateful to my knees, says Pam, for having over what is by now a pretty long lifetime been so admirably reliable. They and of course the rest of my legs and my feet have carried me so many, many miles up, down and along with no complaint or difficulty. Or my even having to give a single moment's thought to the work they've done and are doing so well. So now I smile at them, give them a friendly pat and on we go effortlessly on our way together. Well, just try it. Yes. No, I do agree with you, Pam. And I've never bad-mouthed my knees ability to carry me through life, but they're just extremely unattractive. And when you're younger, you do get really fixated on very odd parts of your body, you know, that don't look like what they're meant to look like in the magazines and all that kind of stuff. And we just know that. So my knees and my forearms, have anybody's knees honestly been that have been celebrated? Have they been celebrated? I don't know, there'll be an only fans channel coming out. They just will be. Yeah. But something rather, there was sort of a bit of fattuous behaviour from young Eve a little earlier today. Wasn't there? What are you referring to? Well, a box arrived and you and Rosie were being rather silly about what was in the box. It was from Lily Allen's collaboration. Right. Oh, is it sex toys? Yeah. Okay, what have we been sent? Yes, actually, who was sent them? They were sent to me. Feel free to share them. There was. Do you know what? There are lots of things in life you should share. Sex toys. Not a good point, well, mate. There is a Western girl polka dot butt plug. Right. This is not the direction I thought the podcast would go and today. Yes, keep it coming. Yeah. They just be a love heart shaped vibrator that Rosie's got to stop. All right. Now, do you know what I've heard enough? Okay. Well, yeah. I don't know how you got from nobly knees to that. Well, I didn't. But you did. I started talking about who had the world's nicest knees. Yeah. And then somehow we got as far as. Maybe think of sex toys. Well, it must have done, but I don't know why. No, I don't know. I don't know why. So we're all being much more open about sex toys these days. Are we including boots the chemist? In my local boots, which people who live in North and under wonder, it's actually huge one down at the end. Is it a mega one? It's a mega one. Oh, I know, that one. Yeah, it's on two floors. Yeah. And they, it's not as big as the one at Westfield. I can't go in that one. It's like overwhelming. It's like licked and shdine. Huge, overwhelming. Yeah. And especially because some of the things that I need to write at the back of that store and you've got to fight your way through kind of seven aisles of perfumes and lipsticks and hairglosses, haven't you? No, I can't do that at all. So I'm back at the angel. And they've got their area of, I think they call it something funny, don't they? Kind of euphemistically nice, their kind of female emancipation aisle. It's just quite funny because it's next to the, they've put all of the vibrators and lube and all of that kind of stuff. They put it opposite the most boring aisle, like surgical spirit and plasters. Exactly. Okay. And long-form dressings. And the number of people, the number of people examining long-form dressings, surgical spirit. The huge amounts of dye and just congregating around an aisle that was never busy before. Yeah, isn't that funny? It was the aisle you could sawn to straight down in order to get to the photo section. That was very, very busy. I mean, I do hope they don't, you know, sometimes your local supermarket, I mean, in my case, I've been going with the same one for 25 years, they'll have a rearrange. They'll suddenly move the chickpeas too. I don't think that's nice. Well, it isn't nice though. But let's hope boots don't do it because there'll be all kinds of discombobulation amongst the people who just want to buy surgical spirit, honestly. I know, but certainly will be. And if that was something my dad always had in stock, surgical spirit, surgical spirit, surgical spirit. And in fact, weirdly, I used it not that long ago, and I was staying in his lap because I needed it for I had a bit of a broken toenail. I just cleared it up a treat. So he knew what he was doing. Okay, in some ways. I feel we've leandered. Joanna says, Eve, I have daughters in their 20s, and I just want to say I'm so very impressed with your poise intelligence, humour and professionalism at quite a tender age. She's now in her 50s. She's not, she's not so young anymore. But Joanna, thank you. What would you like to do? She's so professional. Oh, right. Yeah, she really is. No, she's a delight, Joanna, well-spotted. And Joanna. Yes, quite. Joanna has a suggestion. Can you get the author, Eleanor and Stratheron? She's quite extraordinary. She's written four books, and her latest is an astonishing piece of literary fiction called Fall Out. It's about Greenham Common. And there are amazingly, there are very few books on this topic. Oh, I would have thought there'd be novels about Greenham Common. I'm sure there are. I think the book is brilliant, and she is brilliant too. I heard her speaking at the Military History Festival, and honestly, she was mesmerising. What Joanna, thank you. But we haven't actually talked about Greenham Common on the podcast, I don't think, have we? We have in passing. Yes, we have. And I would always recognise conversation about Greenham Common, because my mum was one of the protectors that my sister went there too. And they did the hands around the base. And I think it's an interesting point, actually, about how quickly we've forgotten it, because although it will come up in the history of protest and stuff like that, I can't think of a novel that is setting Greenham Common already features it. And also, it doesn't come up that often in drama. So there'll be quite a few protests that will be recognised within a Sally Wainwright drama or something like that, you know, just in an historical context. Very rarely, do I say reference to Greenham? Because there was, what was the name of, was it, or film pride was about the miners and gay rights people joining up to see their rights. But you're right. So why hasn't Greenham Common been celebrated or marked in that way, or even just featured? I don't know. It's a strange one. I tell you what I did see last night. The incredibly, I mean, it's not easy viewing by any stretch, but the documentary that BBC made last night was out last night about Abba Van. And oh my goodness, it's the anniversary, I think, tomorrow, the 21st. I mean, I was obviously a baby when it happened in 1966. I didn't really know that much about it. It's one of the, I think it must be the worst thing that's happened in this country in my life. time. Well, there was an amazing documentary that was done by John Humphreys before he left the BBC. I was there. Okay. Because he was, he reported on it. That's right. He did at the time. And actually, I hardly recommend going back and having listened to that. I'm sure this TV documentary is equally as good. And he just made the point at the end that actually it did mark a change in people's ability to really question authority and to want to question their own previously, small place in their world. Wow. Yes. Yeah. Because it was a lack of care and attention. A astonishing lack of care from the National Cold Board, as it was at the time, that had led to something that people had warned about. It had a tragedy happening. And it was just beautifully done. Actually, really, really beautifully done. So I'm glad it's being revisited again. It's very poignant. And it's about, it's called the village that fought back. And it's about how the local community just had to, they had to press so hard to get the slag heaps, the tips just destroyed. They were still there after the initial tragedy. And the NCB appeared to think it was okay to keep them there. I mean, just the sexism was absolutely rampant. The mothers and the women of the village were being sort of written off as slightly hysterical ladies who just needed to be told to calm down. Honestly, unbelievable. And do you know the compensation offered to people who'd lost a child? 50 quid. I mean, absolutely astonishing. I didn't know any of that. So if you can bear it. And certainly if you're younger than, well, if you're younger than, well, actually, if you're younger than 70, you probably won't remember that much about it. And you probably won't know that much about it. So do urge people to have a little confused right. It's just about how far we've traveled in terms of questioning authority. I think sexism plays a part in Greenham Common Not Being. Oh god, yeah, probably it does. You know, kind of invested in the right way in our social history, the tapestry of it. But for so many women, it really changed their lives as well, because it was a place that they went to where they felt strong, you know, in a world that they probably hadn't felt particularly strong in before. I think there was just enormous sucker to be had from joining that protest. So what we'd love to, if you've got any personal reminiscence, it must be some people listening. Oh god, there'll be loads of people listening. Could your mum meet you, Mel? Well, my mum does not listen to the fuck. No, she doesn't listen to the fuck. Because as we've discussed before, she has listened and it's not for her. No. That's completely, well, it's absolutely fine. I mean, look what we've talked about already. Well, that was Eve's fault. That was Eve's fault. Yeah, there's very much Eve's fault, but you know, I think my mother's got a boot sloyalty card and should we get her to it in the same way again? I'm still laughing about the rat and chair. Thank you, everybody. Stop it, Wickham, man. Oh, by the way, that film is out because I thought it hadn't been released, but it definitely is outside. Well, that's your weekend sorted. It might well be. Right. Okay. It's Jayden Fee at Times.radio. Thank you for bearing with us. We're back tomorrow. Yeah, we're going. No, no, no. Look forward to it. Congratulations. You've staggered somehow to the end of another offer with Jayden Fee. Thank you. 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