Episode 8: Karen Hansen on Working with National Media, Building Culture, and Finding Power in Pressure

You enjoy podcasts. We know because you're listening to one. Hi, I'm Jason Falls, the executive producer of the Marketing Podcast Network. We love podcasts too. So much so that in addition to providing you with the great episode you're listening to, we also help businesses, brands, and even individuals produce their podcasts. MPN Studios offers podcasts consulting and production services to help you get you or your business. It's very own podcast. We've helped dozens of smart people, advertising agencies, and brands develop podcasts. All you do is record your content or interview. We take that and deliver a professionally produced audio or video episode complete with show notes, transcriptions, and even promotional clips to use on social media. And our monthly subscription prices are hard to beat. If you or your company are jonesing to have your own podcast to establish stock leadership, drive business leads, or just have fun talking about your business or topic of choice, we'd love to help. Learn more at marketingpodcasts.net/studio. That's marketingpodcasts.net/studio. You may know you're listening to this show along the Marketing Podcast Network, but did you know there are other great shows on MPN to help your business? Mike Alton hosts the AI Hat Podcast. Mike, tell listeners what to expect from the show. Yeah, Jason, you know, a lot of folks are overwhelmed by AI, and honestly, I get it, but on the AI podcast, we cut to the hype. I bring on experts and share real-world strategies that SMBs can use today to grow smarter, no fluff, just actionable tips and tools. Awesome, and where can people subscribe? Find the show at vahhat.com on marketingpodcast.net/studio. Or search for it wherever you get your podcasts. You heard him go subscribe. That you are here listening to what I think will be a fascinating conversation about culture, about communication, about finding a way to balance all of the things that we have to balance in a given subject matter. I guess today is Karen Hansen. She is the president of Bullseye Communication. She has a really long and fancy bio, which I'm sure you can look at, but she has worked with in her past career travel channel, world wrestling entertainment, PBS Discovery, scripts, Smithsonian, Benchie launched out, branched out Bullseye Communications, and has earned recognition as one of the top places to work, one of the top female entrepreneurs to watch. So Karen, you're joining us on the phone. I have to ask, where are you right now because you travel the world? Well, I love that. So I think you could safely say I'm either in New York, LA, or do you see on any given moment? And yes, of course. There's a lot of fun international travel, but today I am calling you from Washington, D.C. Let me start with your initial sort of career, because one of the questions I get asked from students the most, do I take the plunge and go to New York or Chicago or LA or whatever, or do I sort of stay close to home and get myself settled and figure out what I want to do and where I want to go? Do you take that plunge? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great question. So I can speak to my experience, which was I did move to New York City right out of the gate. I knew that I wanted to build a career. I knew that I wanted to be in the city where everything happened. I knew I wanted to just network like crazy. I knew that when I was pitching a reporter, I wanted to be able to say, this has been a fun project. Let's go out for drinks. There's a night. Let's grab a coffee Sunday morning. I want it to really be where that action was. I really wanted to get the most high-level experience that I could. I just think you have to be like a sponge. I took on every assignment I could. I was the first to raise my hand for late hours, after hours, weekend work, because that's where you learn so much. That's where you see, that's where the rubber hits the ground and you see how things are happening and you see the behind the scenes and you see what it takes. I think it's so interesting because public relations in general appears really glamorous because what do we see? We see the red carpet. We see the events. We see the huge awards. We see the big sporting events. But what it really is is 99 percent behind a computer being smart, thinking strategy, thinking execution, thinking how to make something flow and you have to have experience in order to do that. You talk about being behind the computer. You also mention going out for drinks, having coffee, meeting with these journalists who will likely be telling these stories. How important was that for you to be able to get entrenched in national media relations connections, which I know for many people is a real struggle. So I think for us, and especially now, leading Bullseye, it's really looking at a range of techniques to engage with journalists, especially today, when everything has a mask and journalists are asked to take on multiple beats and their time is just at a premium. So we're always over here. We think like a journalist, but we pitch like a publicist. Early in a campaign, we'll leverage journalists, producer face to face, to media death sites where we can to introduce the client, the product, the service, and kind of chat through that tutorial opportunities, the relevant story lines. We make it clear like we read your articles, we know your beat, we know your voice, and we think this is a good fit and here's why. Obviously at the end of the day, clients want the coverage, but I have to put it through the funnel of saying, okay, but what is the takeaway for the media? Because the media, this is a business too, and they're trying to drive eyeballs too, and it has to make sense for their audience. So we have whatever client, okay, how does it work in this niche media category? How does it work in this big national broadcast category? How does it make sense? And then we always love, and we can do experiential opportunities with media, you know, obviously this, you know, hit a screech, the standstill in 2020, and it's whole great to be back out there. You think experience has even added emphasis as we sort of meander out of the pandemic? I mean, I think so because I'm so often asked, like, how did you get here? How did you build this? But I really credit this to longstanding experience and networking in the industry, and I really treat it every interaction like it matters, whether you're a journalist at a hometown paper, or whether you are the executive producer at the biggest morning show. It matters to me that you get the content that you need, that you get excellent media relations and media service. So let's assume your client wants a, you go to one of these national entities, and they want maybe, let's say, D. What is your process to try to connect those folks at B or C or somewhere in between? I mean, I think that's a great question. So it is important to us to understand what they need. And at the end of the day, for most journalists, it's the editors, right, who are dictating that end result. So their way to still get there, but incorporate pieces of A, to make it look like you said, a B or a C, you know, it's important to us that the article makes sense for their readership, that they get the content that they need, while also respecting any boundaries that we might have, especially if we're working with big celebrities. So it's really a bit of a dance to be like, we can get there. It's just a lot of calls, a lot of back and forth. You know, sometimes it's creative, it's story boarding, and then kind of getting to that final space where like I really want to come to a consensus, where that's very collaborative, where everyone has buy-in. What do you try to do to measure success beyond a lot of those vanity metrics that some would argue may not have a ton of meaning? Yeah, and I think it's always interesting because when we work with marketing teams, they're used to very specific things. As we all know with paid media, there are very specific things you can measure. So I mean, I think we're still doing which is a little traditional for agencies in terms of what's the equivalent for the ad rate, what's the amount of eyeballs, what's the value in that sense. But I also think a big thing for us is what is the call to action from anything we're doing, and how do we get that call to action in every single thing? So whether it's tune in for a television program, whether it's go by tickets for this movie, right? Like what does that take away, and how do you make sure that every single article mentions it? Because that is what moves things. How do you try to balance? I'm doing air quotes for traditional media versus the influencer space and trying to navigate. I think what a lot of people look at as a shiny new toy that maybe has value, but some people may overvalue. Yeah, I mean, I think as a leader, you have to be prepared to pivot with the media marketplace, all the industry shifts. So we do have to be member with influencer campaigns and other strategies to drive those earned results. So we do address the various platforms, but we're also kind of managing the shifting client needs, and we're, you know, redirecting efforts where we need to. So we think there is definitely value in those kinds of campaigns. I do think it's a harder metric to measure in terms of, you know, driving to whatever that call to action is whether it's, is it the website, you know, in some instances donate, but I think it's a nice complimentary campaign to quote unquote the traditional campaigns. So you've had this amazing experience crushing it in sort of the corporate world. And then you're like, I kind of want to do this on my own. What was the process about saying it was time to see if I could do this my terms, my turf? - I mean, I think when I decided to do this, I knew I kind of wanted to do it differently. And the whole point was to create a company and build a company where results were valued. It was a positive, collaborative environment. I think all that corporate nonsense. Who came in first, who stayed the latest, who's going to the most meetings today? It's just scrapped. And I think that's why we were named the best place to work because it's always about keeping that collaborative environment and that just naturally transcends to our clients. They just feel it. Like we get results, but man, we're fun to work with. We're fun on the phone, we're fun in meetings, we're fun in person. And I think that matters because we are in the business of fun and are came in literally is the business of fun. And I think even before the pandemic shifted how we all work, I always ran this business with people and results as our most valued commodity. But I do think it's interesting because, you know, you start your own business and be like, oh, you must have a lot of downtime. Like, let's get a coffee, let's hang out. And I think in corporate jobs, it's just easier to keep better boundaries. But when it's yours, you're always going to be thinking, you're always going to be working, oh, it never leaves you. Whether it's business or new business or ideations or client needs. There isn't an off switch. I know this from personal experience. Some of the best ideas I will come up with is when I'm going on a hike in the woods and I will like take a note on my phone at some point and then continue my journey. And I also think, you know, when you're a business owner, you're the sole decision maker. So I have to make difficult choices literally every day. And so it can be staffing or client related. And I just know that final choice level last in impact. But I can, you know, I have to do it in a way thinking what is best for the business and cut away anything else. - Game marketers, Deborah Eccrillin here. - And I'm Keith Smith. And we host the MPN Meta Marketing Show, which is not just another marketing podcast, but the marketing podcast about all the other marketing podcasts. - Podcasts are booming right? We love them. And people actually listen. They don't just crawl, they don't swipe. - Well, except maybe during the after-akes. - But here's the secret. With the marketing podcast network, your ads don't make people hit skip. We put your brand on shows that people actually want to hear. - That's right. We match your message with podcasts that make marketing nerds like us perk up and take notes. Or at least nod knowingly, pretending they understand. - And don't worry because we'll deliver your ad naturally. People might even think that we love your brand personally, which of course we totally do. And unless it's a veggie smoothie, then maybe not. - If you want your brand to heard without making listeners roll their eyes. - Head to marketingpodcasts.net and catch marketing fans at work, rest and play. Seriously, your audience is already listening. Make sure they hear your brand and not our awkward jokes. - Join the conversation because good ads shouldn't just be tolerated. They should be enjoyed. - Yes. - You may know you're listening to this show along the marketing podcast network, but did you know there are other great shows on MPN to help your business? - Yeah, Jason, you know a lot of folks are overwhelmed by AI and honestly I get it, but on the AI hot podcast we cut to the hype. I bring on experts and share real world strategies that SMBs can use today to grow smarter, no fluff, just actionable tips and tools. - Awesome. And where can people subscribe? - Find the show at theaihat.com on marketingpodcast.net or search for it wherever you get your podcasts. - You heard him go subscribe. - Where does culture fit in terms of what's best for the business? I asked this because you talk about the culture of awesome and I love that and I'm gonna borrow it but I will attribute it to you. I promise it's a heck of a concept. - And my motto is pressure is privilege. And I think that comes from a place of, I do feel like that my time isn't such demand and why I don't have as much of it as I wish. I just think it's important to be present. So whether that's with your team or a client or a journalist or talent, right? 'Cause there's not a day goes by where I'm not needed urgently for something but it's a privilege to be trusted in that way. So when you kind of create that environment that treats everyone with respect and understanding there's a really great empowerment that happens with valuing each other. And you also have to learn to work with a very wide range of personalities and have a certain emotional IQ to understand how to maximize everyone, how to maximize even communication with them to leveraging strength. So I just think knowing personalities and the personalities that play is essential. - So how do you try to build and maintain that culture as you're achieving success and growing an agency? - I think you just have to continue to respect and appreciate your people and appreciate what they're doing and it's with any business. You start out like boom, it's me and a laptop and it's just me and then I add a person and then I add a person. I know everything that I'm asking my team to do, I have done myself and I could do myself. So that is I focus more on new business and other pieces and evolve more, right? Everything that I'm asking my team to do, I have been there and I know exactly the effort that it takes, the commitment that it takes. So I just think there's this understanding. - You mentioned appreciation and handful of times. How is showcasing that appreciation evolving or maybe different after everything we've been through over the last few years? - I absolutely value my team, I value working moms on my team, I value flexibility and I am about to end result and making it happen. Everyone needs to do what they need to do. I accept that both I is a component of everyone's lives but not the main thing in everyone's lives. So how do you do that? Service the client top notch, what we always do but make sure I never want someone to miss a graduation or a baseball game or those really important milestone moments. And so we just kind of embrace a battle rhythm here and I think that that is what has worked. - Expand upon the battle rhythm, I've never heard that but that also is an awesome term that I may want to borrow someday. - Yeah, I mean I think it's just working in teams, right? And if someone has to be out, setting up your teammates for success and making sure everyone knows who's on first and if we have something big to do, making sure it's in the best place that it can be. So it's really that kind of painless of a team and working lock step. So nothing's ever missed. - What do you think's next in terms of industry, in terms of culture? - Yeah, I mean I think it's been very interesting to watch the resistance to back to office, right? Which is something that I've never valued. I value people getting the work done. I understand what it takes to travel as much as I ask the team to do and be on site. So I want them to be able to make up for that with their families on the back end. So I like to think we were ahead of that curve. I think this idea of work from home will continue to grow. - There really are two ways to go. And with remote work and remote openings, you could hire somebody in Lincoln Nebraska if you wanted to, as long as they can get the stuff done and they're open to travel, it would seem. - People can make life decisions that were best for them and say, "Why am I living?" It's an expensive part of the country. When I can move back home and be by family, as long as I can still do a job that I love and I'm willing to travel to headquarters. And so I mean I think that's a good thing to come out of it is accepting that the work will get done. And I just like focus elsewhere that should not focus or concern for me. - But I'm gonna do five questions. I wanna add a six question. But I'm gonna do the six question first. This is a new question. And this is because you mentioned your travel and you get to travel all over this amazing world, helping clients, your best piece of travel advice to make it a little less hectic. I think you just have to have patience. To me, it is worth it to get there early and know that I'm all set. Even if my flight gets canceled or delayed, there's just a little bit of a peaceness that like I can plug in, set up, have a remote office. I mean I've had flights canceled. Oki-Doki, at least I'm learning a day and a van. I can call the front desk. Great, you can keep me in the same room for another night. I can go sit on the balcony now and work. Awesome. So I think you just have to take it with a grain of salt and have patience. You gotta go with the flow, which I think you can tell I'm a type A person and that's not my strong suit. But I think if you just relax and go with the flow, you're gonna get to that in game eventually. It might be 24, 48 hours later. You can do so in peace or you can do so resisting it every step of the way. I choose peace. - There's two things I'm stunned with. One, really your type A, I would have never, never guessed that. (laughing) - Oh, the two. We have wifi everywhere. - All right. Now, real question one. Book, you wish other people would read. - Okay, so I do think books are such a personal choice. So it resonates for me, may not for another, but I think any PR person is gonna say, can you just why things catch on? Because the author really honed in, I'm like viral and film-errow and all of these things before they were part of our common vernacular. Like why do things catch on? So I think that's just such an interesting concept to me, especially if we go to take out a new client and they say we want something to go viral. Well, that's not really how it works. So let's back up and that's great ultimate goal. But there's a lot of steps to get there first. Primarily, content. I hate content as king. Trust me, crazy. It's true. Right. I hate content. Crazy. Okay. Question two. Favorite cocktail/mocktail if that is your choice. Okay. So last year on my team got me this subscription to the American Cocktail Club for National Boss's day. It's a pretty good gift. So it's a monthly box with literally everything included to make these sophisticated cocktails. So the sugar and spice martini absolute favorite. It has bourbon, bitter lime. And instead of sugar cubes, I use monk fruit cubes to keep it low carb low sugar. And it is the drink. It is amazing. And this is a gift from what is the name of this organization that your generous team got for you? The American what? It's called the American Cocktail Club and you can get a monthly subscription. And I thought that was a pretty tremendous gift. Terrible question for where you live, but I'll try. Favorite restaurant in the city where you live. And you can go beyond like the city limit. You can expand your horizons. Okay. So I think that's great. So Clyde's the favorite. They have a lot of restaurants in northern Virginia and there used to be one literally two steps away from the travel channel office. But we have one nearby. It's a date night favorite. They always get it right. Huge range, healthy choices. It's a good locale. Funny as person you bet. Okay. This is the easiest question you're going to ask me on this whole podcast because it's definitely my elementary school-aged daughter Kayla. This child makes last least one today. She has the most expressive faces. She puts funny stuff all the time. I'm literally looking at my own mini me. She keeps me on my toes. She has more energy than any child ought to have. And she keeps me in stitches and I love it. Then you wish you would have known that you graduated that now you know. You know, I saw a quote the other day that's like, remember everything you wish for like you have it now. And I think that I do tend to live my life a little bit in fast forward thinking ahead which is absolutely amazing for business. But it's not great for enjoying the moment. So I wish I would have known, yes, take ambition, hard work, tenacity, all the things we talked about at the beginning of the call that will all fall into place accordingly. All right. Karen, how can people find you on the Google machine? Yeah, just hit us up at bothicom.com. All of our social emails, everything is there. Karen Hansen, what a delight. Thank kudos on the success. Not that it's a surprise, but my God, it's just a joy to see what you're able to do and keep being you because you're crushing it. And for all our guests who are listening, you made it. Congratulations. A reminder, the marketing podcast, network has other podcasts. It ain't relying on me. Go check them out. You'll learn more. We'll make communication better and use it to make the world a better place. So we appreciate you for being you. Be smart. Be safe. Oh. [MUSIC] You may know you're listening to this show along the marketing podcast network, but did you know there are other great shows on MPN to help your business? Mike Alton hosts the AI Hat Podcast, Mike. Tell listeners what to expect from the show. Yeah, Jason, you know a lot of folks are overwhelmed by AI, and honestly I get it. But on the AI hot podcast, we cut to the hype. Awesome. Find the show at theaihat.com on marketingpodcast.net or search for it wherever you get your podcasts. This podcast has heard along the marketing podcast network. For more great marketing podcasts, visit marketingpodcasts.net.