[MUSIC] Welcome to Better Together Podcast series. I am Dr. Misek Barri, a researcher in early childhood policy, and a professor and program coordinator at the School of Early Childhood at George Brown College. Together with my co-host Carrie McQuake, a researcher at the University of Toronto, we have put together an eight episode series exploring the importance of investment and support in high quality early childhood education. This is episode eight where we chat with some of the many players who ensure childcare is planned, well run, and works equitably in Ontario. Tonya Millsap is the manager of Children's Services for the County of Simco. Cittinder Claire is the director of Children's Services with the Niagara Region, and Elaine Levy is the director of Child Care for a large multi-service agency in Toronto. With me today is Tonya Millsap manager of Children's Services, Early Learning and Child Care in the County of Simco. Thank you for joining me today, Tonya. Happy to join today. Thanks for creating a space for this topic and the listeners. Thank you for tuning in and choosing to learn more about early learning and child care in Ontario. Tonya, I've found over the years of working in this area that many parents are well-versed in how our education system works. They know the credentials of the teachers, they know the curriculum, etc. Surprisingly, parents often know less about how our early year system or childcare system works. You are a Children's Service Manager. Can you please tell us what that means? I'm not in agreement as I'm listening to the question to me because certainly how the early learning and child care system works in Ontario isn't as obvious as compared to the kindergarten to 12 education system. Municipal governments in Ontario are mandated, meaning that they're legislated by the provincial government to plan to administer funding and to manage the early learning and child care system within their respective service areas. So there are 47 service system managers across Ontario who have this responsibility and I'm with the County of Simco. We are one of those 47. They must develop a five-year strategic service plan and they develop that collaboratively within their local communities with the sector partners and our broader early years and human services sector with families engaging with Indigenous teachings and partnerships in support of culture and Indigenous-led program spaces. So the plan sort of rolls up if you will, the local priorities and describes how the the service system manager intends to address challenges and bring opportunities to fruition. So these plans are approved by municipal councils. An example I have in mind in Simco County, we have designated French language service areas. So we're ensuring equitable access to services for our francophone children and families. When it comes to administering funding, the province allocates funding to the service system manager with specific funding guidelines each year and the service system manager must work within those guidelines. There are municipal contributions to the overall funding allocation as well and the service system manager delivers Ontario's Child Care Feast Upset Program. So a high quality system is inclusive for all children and families and so to that end service system managers, administer special needs resource programs. We have early on Child and Family Centers, AniBah. They are integral elements of our early learning and Child Care system and we are responsible for administration, funding and management of these programs in our community. Workforce development is another key element in the scope of our work. This would encompass innovative workforce and recruitment of retention strategies, personal professional learning opportunities could include pedagogies, governance, finance, operations, some service system managers operate licensed Child Care directly and so they hold a license and employ the educators within those programs. Though a recent paper that I was reviewing around municipal operated programs suggest that between the late 90s and 2021 there was a 66% decrease in municipal operated programs in Ontario. So certainly the role the scope of work from a service system management perspective has become increasingly complex over time and as the Seabuck system rolls out across Ontario, service system managers are responsible for you know local growth plans for enrolling operators within the program. The scope of work is pretty complex. It's pretty vast for service system managers in Ontario. That's a really big portfolio, so many moving parts and so complex. In your comment about the directly operated centers reducing, they really do fill a void and we've seen that you know with international research as well, fill a void of Child Care Deserts and where Child Care may not be viable for profit and even non-profit centers. In the County of Simco, we don't have any directly operated programs however, historically we did have a directly operated licensed home Child Care which is another significant part of landscape of Child Care. So, Tony, if I want to open a Child Care Center in Simco County, what do I do? What rules are in place that I have to follow? What do I have to know? So opening a Child Care Center essentially means that you're applying to obtain a Child Care operating license. That is issued at the provincial level of government through the Ministry of Education. So they are the licensing body in Ontario. So, a few caveats and these are evolving as our early learning and Child Care System meanders this transformation space that we're holding right now. So, now potential licensees who are interested in opening early learning and Child Care Center, the first decision that they need to make is to opt in or opt out of the Canadawide Early Learning and Child Care or C-WELC program. So, if they're opting in, that potential licensee must first apply to be enrolled into the C-WELC program. So, they reach out to their local municipality for more information. The Service System Manager has been given or allocated a limited number of spaces that they can approve into the program in Simco County. We've experienced a really high volume of interest in growth and enrollment into C-WELC locally. We've been unable to fully accommodate those applications based on the number of spaces that we've had available to us. If a potential licensees request for growth into and C-WELC enrollment cannot be accommodated, they do have the option to proceed with their licensing application with the Ministry of Education without being a part of C-WELC. So, with respect to rules, certainly there are applicable acts that govern the operation of licensed early learning and Child Care programs and those are in addition to broader employer applicable acts. The Child Care and Early Years Act is the legislation that encompasses the regulations that are required in early learning and Child Care programs in terms of enrollment practices and what type of program and curriculum is experienced in those programs, food and nutrition and the actual facility and place spaces. The Service System Manager can be a really great first point of contact for any listeners who are potentially interested in opening licensed child care. We can help to understand local service system needs and demands, priority areas and ministry licensing processes. The Canadawide Early Learning and Child Care Agreement promised parents affordable child care and more access for children. So, once the center has joined and as you mentioned, centers don't have to join. What does that mean for parents? What does that mean for children? And what does that mean for the operator and the educators? Once enrolled, parents will have reduced fees to pay for their early learning and child care. That's a really big benefit for families. The cost of child care is quite a significant barrier for many, many families. Effective January 1st, 2025 fees for child care in the 0-5 system will be $22 a day. The federal government identified early learning and child care as a national priority, as enshrined sea wealth into federal law. I was reading a paper recently and of our international counterparts. It has taken in upwards of 20 and 30 years to really construct interconnected and well-funded and high quality and inclusive early learning and care systems where the supply meets up.
with demand. It takes place over a really long period of time. And we're in your three of this endeavor in Canada. So we're in our infancy. And I think that that's important for us to keep in mind. See what has made some significant positive impacts in terms of wages for registered early-todd educators. There is not unanimous agreement in terms of where educators need them to be. And I recognize that not all families have access at this point. That's such an important point. The transformation of this size takes time. Such large national transformations, especially of something that is under provincial territorial jurisdiction, takes time to do it right. So as a service system manager, what do you want parents to know? So I think for parents and for anybody who's listening, I'd like to offer the following. The years before five change lives. These really are formative years that shape lifelong trajectories. This is really important and critical work that we're all participating in. When high quality and inclusive and affordable early learning and childcare systems are created and are sustained, our whole society gains. Longitudinal studies really show that participation in these high-quality systems pay off in a long run, increased high school graduation rates, gainful employment, and impacts in terms of justice system recidivism. And just civility more generally, the work in the early years is work that our society needs to pay attention to. The economic benefit is well documented. For every dollar invested, there's a two dollar benefit to children and families and society. And when we think about women's workforce participation, affordable childcare is a booster and an enabler, a driver of workforce participation. And all of these are really significant considerations for us. And I guess what I hope to convey is that service system managers are a critical and essential leader in helping to and facilitating the development of these high quality systems across our province. Classically viewed early education or childcare has been a parental issue. So this is transformative and very important for the social and economic well-being of our country. Thank you so much again for joining us and for sharing your insights. It's always a pleasure to chat with you. I'm humbled and really privileged to be a part of this today. So thank you as well. Joining me today is Cittinder Claire. He is an experienced public sector leader with extensive knowledge of the public sector. He has held leadership positions with Halton, Peel region and the city of Toronto and the Ontario provincial government where he has led or managed strategic and transformational files and projects. Currently, he is the director of children's services with Niagara region where he is accountable for five directly operated childcare centers, one directly operated licensed home childcare agency, and system oversight and management of over 186 community childcare centers. He is also on the board of directors for the Ontario Municipal Social Services Association. Cittinder's background allows him to bring a unique perspective to social services that is grounded in strong public policy, public analysis, and strategic thinking. He is passionate about human services and making a meaningful impact on complex issues, impacting our society through policy, strategic thinking, and service integration. He holds in honors, bachelor's of arts and masters of public administration and various certificates in business, project management, and leadership. Thank you for joining us today, Cittinder. Thank you so much for having me. Niagara region has directly operated childcare centers. For our listeners, this means the municipality operates the program, sets the policies, and staff, our regional employees. Can you tell me about the programs, who it serves, and what makes it unique? Absolutely. Niagara region directly operates five childcare centers located in St. Catherine's, Welland, Port Corburn, Forty-Ary, and Niagara Falls. Four of these centers provide care from infant to preschool, and one of our centers also provides before and after school, each care. Across the five centers, we are serving approximately 241 children from infant to school age. We have 45 full-time registered early childhood educators and 25 supply registered early childhood educators. As for what makes our program unique, I think I can summarize it by three unique themes. First and foremost, it is high-quality childcare. Full stop. And the number one factor contributing to the high standard of quality childcare is our staff. Being regional employees, our staff are fairly compensated and recognized for the work video. On top of that, they are provided with resources, benefits, and supported, which results in less burnout and more engaged staff, ultimately leading to less staff turnover, which, again, supports building relationships, connections with children and families. We engage in a reflective practice and learning where staff are provided time-weekly for documentation and planning. Our staff also undergo an extensive orientation process, and when they are hired, which includes reviewing policies, a full day of shadowing, and training to ensure they are successful within our organization. Secondly, we are truly inclusive centers and safe spaces to learn and grow for all children. This is reflected in the type of clients, children that we serve, and the type of care we provide. For example, children's spaces are high priority in the sector, and the most expensive and resource-intensive age group. Eight percent of our directly operated operating spaces are dedicated to infant spaces, whereas if we look in our community, only three percent of the total sector spaces are dedicated to infant spaces. It is an age group that would have less spaces without our directly operated childcare centers operating in Niagara. Special needs children are welcomed and supported within our centers. In 2023, for example, 20 percent of infant, hover, creeps, school children, and care and direct ops received a resource-consultant support. When we look at the community centers, only three percent of children in the community were assigned to a resource-consultant. By the same token, if we look at 2023, tracks the operating childcare centers, utilize roughly about 14 percent of the special circumstance funding that's dedicated to supporting classrooms with additional staffing compared to 85 percent of the funding being utilized by community operating childcare centers. So you're seeing that we're supporting a large chunk of the children that require special needs, but only using a small portion of the funding in comparison to in the community where there's a smaller percentage of children being supported and a large chunk of the funding is being used. This is a result of our highly trained staff dedication to inclusive practices, which allows vulnerable children in our community that otherwise may not be accommodated to experience and engage in high-quality childcare. Lastly, I would say we are more than just a childcare center. We support vulnerable families, community programs, and other service providers. Our space in Niagara Falls, for example, is available to community support agencies that provide support to families, where families and parents can easily access services. Our centers serve more fee-substeeclients and families in comparison to the sector overall, and staff and our and supervisors often call to mentor and support childcare centers and supervisors in the community. Our centers have been historically been located close to near areas of socioeconomic challenges or where it's difficult to staff. There's a resulting in a lack of service or high-quality service available to families. And some of that is changing with the changing economic conditions in Niagara. So I think in summary, having a highly qualified staff being able to be inclusive centers and being a community resource makes us really unique here in Niagara. I want to go back to that comment about infant spaces that you made. Infant spaces for listeners is really important in a climate of precarious work. Women that have the privilege of taking current to leave are often those that have stable work or partners that can support their leave. So having available infant spaces that are also affordable is really important for issues of equity, especially for women. Your comment about using public spaces to really build that capacity for the community that it's not your childcare centers are directly operated, but using also that capacity to support the community's needs is also really important from an equity perspective. As a children's service system manager, do you feel that your region has enough resources to meet the diverse needs of the community? I would say the simple answer is no. The region or I would even say the sector is challenged across the province and simply meeting childcare needs of their community. Speaking for Niagara, we are operating at approximately about six minutes.
64% of our operating capacity. And that is probably on the higher end of the provincial averages. Without adequate staffing, we'll continue to struggle in supporting childcare needs across the province. The provincial workforce strategy is a great start, but significant further investments, I believe will be required for us to be successful in attracting and retaining staff in the early years childcare sector. The workforce is the backbone of our system, and it needs to be recognized, acknowledged, and supported as professionals and experts in their field. Further, I would say the demand for childcare is so significant that the growth, at least in Niagara, is unable to keep pace. We grew our spaces by roughly 591 last year, we're adding close to 1200 spaces this year. Yet the waitlist for childcare continues to increase. Across our region, we have close to 9,000 children that have registered for seeking childcare. Now, some of these children may already be in childcare and are looking for a different space, and/or when they ultimately get a space, they might have find alternative arrangements. But the closest number I have right now is about 9,000 children waiting for without our seeking childcare. We simply need more spaces to meet demand, and we need spaces that are protected and mandated for low income families so they can access childcare spaces. We need the sector averages to be equivalent to regional childcare center averages in supporting our special needs resource families or fees of state families, some of the stats that I alluded to in our conversation earlier. There's simply not enough adequate resources to support children's special needs. The province requires us as a service system manager to fund special needs services at 4.1% of our budget at minimum. If I look at my 2023 budget, our expenditure for special needs services was over 10% of our budget. Essentially, I'm funding special needs services out of my childcare budget, which means less funding to support childcare sector. And this is one part of the childcare sector that really worries me, because these are families and children that probably need childcare the most. A lack of funding or childcare centers unwilling to support SNR children due to lack of staffing or terminating care because there is a massive wait list of children that are waiting for care that may not be needing special needs. Has we really worried about access for spaces for vulnerable families in the system? So to answer your question, I think some of those trends and challenges really challenge us as a service system manager to be able to meet the diverse needs of our community. - So what would the region need in your opinion to ensure that every child has an equitable opportunity to access quality early education? - That is a really big question. And in our conversation, I have alluded to some of the things we require, but to summarize, we need adequate staffing where staff are compensated and recognized for the work and supported to support the diversity of our children. If we continue to operate the system at about 60 to 64% of the capacity, there's a lot of spaces that are built spaces, high quality spaces that are not being utilized by families that are in desperate need of childcare. So how do we start maximizing those spaces? How do we get staff reengaged, to motivate it and recognize for the work they do in supporting early learning? We need additional spaces to accommodate higher demand and growth for our community. There's a lot of growth happening in Niagara from a population perspective and economic perspective and supporting that labor force to really support the economy moving forward is going to be critical. We need protection of spaces and access and additional funding to support vulnerable families and special needs families. This is again a part of the childcare sector that really worries me is because of the increasing demand. How do we ensure that access to vulnerable families as well as fee subspeed families is maintained? In addition to that, there is diversity in overall population growth that is occurring across the province and in Niagara. So we need investments in understanding the diversity of childcare needs and the EI training in our communities. Lastly, it would say flexibility for the service system managers to continue to plan, manage and fund the system in a way that supports their community and viability of childcare spaces. We really know our communities past when it comes to looking at the needs of childcare where they need to be located. Our typical quality needs provided within those centers and we continue to need that flexibility to be able to manage those issues that arise at the community level but also to be planning for their growth is heading and then ensuring that those spaces can remain in the long run. - Thank you so much for joining us, the Tinder and for sharing your expertise and insights, especially around issues of equity for children. - Thank you so much for having me. - Hello Elaine, thank you for joining us. Can we start with you telling us who you are and what you do, where you do it? - I'm Elaine Levy, I'm the Vice President of Child Care and Family Services at Woodgreen Community Services in Toronto. I've been working in the field of early childhood education for many decades. I started off as a kindergarten teacher after I got my B.Ed at the University of Alberta where they actually offered a specialization in early childhood. Then I went on to receive a Master's of Education and a PhD, both of which also focused on early childhood. I've been at Woodgreen since 1982 and my role really has three main components. The first is that I oversee our eight licensed Child Care sites, our resource consultation program and a recreational program that we run for six to 12 year olds. And then the third part of my position is to be involved with external partners and that includes engaging in advocacy work to make improvements to the Child Care sector and then also participating in initiatives such as Toronto First Duty and other things that are really looking to explore new models and move the sector forward. Yes, Woodgreen and you personally were very involved in Toronto First Duty and that really laid the groundwork for the Fulday kindergarten program that we have in Ontario now. It piloted the teaching team of the certified teacher and the early childhood educator. It piloted the curriculum and the idea of the seamless day. So it had a big impact on children's services in Ontario. But taking off from there, Woodgreen is a very well-known name in Toronto and although children's services are a big part of what you do, could you fill us in a little bit on what other areas of social programming that Woodgreen is involved in? Woodgreen is a leading multi-site agency. It's been serving Toronto for over 85 years. In addition to Child Care, Woodgreen offers programs and services in the areas of disability, employment, financial empowerment, health and wellness, housing and homelessness, newcomers, seniors and youth. We have created an implemented number of innovative programs including a program known as Homeward Bound, which is designed to give single mothers a holistic support system that includes housing, training for a career and child care. And you can really see how central child care would be to ensuring success of the other programs that you've just outlined for us. But we're here to talk about how Child Care works. And we've been talking to some other major players in the field including the College of Early Childhood, educators to people who work at the school board level and to those at the city. And really the city is the, at least for the Ontario context, is the manager of children's services. But could you tell us what you do? What's the role of child care at the direct agency level? What is it that service providers do? Of course you provide the service. But what are the rules that you operate under? Okay, so as I mentioned before, our unit does operate eight licensed child care centers. And in Ontario, child care is governed by the child care in early years act. And programs that are licensed by the Ministry of Education have to meet and maintain the regulatory standards that are set up in that legislation. And the standards deal with health and safety considerations, staff child ratios, room sizes, playgrounds, nutrition, so on and so forth. But they also focus on providing quality experiences for children. And the Ministry has a document that's called, how does learning happen, which reflects a view of children as being competent, capable, curious, and rich and potentials. So centers have to have a program statement that's consistent with this document. And during the annual licensing review that the Ministry comes in to do, Ministry staff reflect on how that is evident in the program's operations in addition to making sure that all of the other regulatory standards are met. So centers are licensed on an annual basis in part of
My role is to ensure that the managers have everything they need to meet the licensing requirements. And as you've mentioned, Carrie, in addition to the province, childcare falls under the auspices of the consolidated services to managers across the province, which in Ontario is Toronto Children's Services. And that division promotes access to high quality early learning and childcare services. And works really closely with the community to meet the diverse needs of children and families. So, among the things that it does, it offers funding, resources, and professional development to centres. It provides support to children with extra support needs through what's known as the average health, belong model. And it promotes continuous quality improvement through regular visits to centres to assess operations against a set of criteria known as the assessment for quality improvement. And this tool, which has been validated by research, identifies the attributes of quality and childcare setting that lead to desirable outcomes in children. It looks at features including program planning, type of learning experiences that are provided, indoor and outdoor physical environments, and interactions between staff and children. So my position, I oversee the operations of all the programs and services offered in the unit. And ensuring that we are compliant with all of the regulations and standards that govern our operations. And that we have policies and procedures that are in place and that are reviewed regularly to ensure that they are compliant with changes that happen in the sector or with new learnings and understandings that we all come to have about what goes to providing quality program. So I'm also responsible for all of the financial management of the unit. And that includes an annual budget process with the city. Being among a multi-site agency, we have a really solid infrastructure in place. So there is a lot of support with respect to things like financial management, people and culture, IT stuff, and those supports are extremely valuable and ensuring that all of this work that is required gets done. But there is a very heavy administrative load and a lot of boxes that have to be checked off to ensure compliance and that all of these regulations and standards are met. So it does sound like there's a great deal of oversight. I suppose that you want that in a service that is in charge of such important people. What happens if something goes wrong? What would be the response if there wasn't compliance? How is that handled? So there's big picture stuff and smaller picture stuff. Certainly if a center continuously did not meet the regulatory requirements, they could be at risk of losing their license. Similarly, if they did not meet the criterion standards that are set by the Consolidated Service System Manager, they could lose their funding, their purchase of service agreements, and access to those type of financial and other operational supports. I don't think that happens very often. I think there's a lot of work going on to provide the necessary supports to programs to ensure that they can remain compliant and can continue to operate. So that would be an extreme measure, but certainly has happened where compliance is not achieved because nobody wants to put children at risk. That's one of the main reasons that all of these standards and regulations exist in terms of more operational types of issues or concerns or complaints that come forward. I think the course of action would really depend on the circumstances, but I also think it's really important to take a proactive position and outline what these processes are for families when they enroll in a program. So for example, in our handbook for parents and guardians, we outline what our internal complaint process is and also what processes families should follow should something be more serious and something needs to be reported, for example, to children's aid society. And we try to ensure that they have that information at the outset. We also have a code of conduct that we expect both parents and staff to follow. And that is also provided to parents at the time that they were registered and whenever it's updated. So it is updated and reviewed in conjunction with our program statement. So it would green the majority of our staff about 85% of our staff are registered early childhood educators. And that means that their members of the College of ECEs, which has its own code of ethics and standards of practice. So if a complaint pertains to an REC, either if it's a parent coming forward with a complaint, we would refer them to the college. And if it was something that we as an employer had a concern about, we would again make the complaint to the college. And then it's up to the college to review that and go through their own internal processes to assess the validity and the impact of whatever that complaint is. And that could be if anything that we feel violates the college's code or standards. And when it comes to operational issues, we are really guided by our principles, such as our commitment as an organization to diversity and inclusion and belonging and equity, and also to using a play-based emerging curriculum approach. So we do a great deal in the way of documentation and communication with parents and guardians. So they can understand how our programs work, how we plan activities and experiences for children. And when there are issues, we do our best to listen and understand their perspective and to also provide them with incited information as to what thinking on our site has been. Just to try and present as clear a picture as possible about how we got to whatever that point is. Sometimes it gets resolved. Sometimes we have to find a sort of mutually agreeable way to move forward. And I guess the other thing is that sometimes childcare isn't the best place for children. Or the type of group care that we offer might not be the right match for that child or for that family. And should that be the case, which again happens quite rarely, we would really try to work with that family to help them find a situation that might be more beneficial for their particular family needs. So as you said, you've been in this field a long time and of senior services grow. Because I understand you recently added a brand new center. So I imagine as the years go by and the program grows new challenges arise. So how have you as a service provider needed to change in response? And I'm thinking of one thing in particular, there's now a Canada wide plan to provide affordable care to more parents. I'm assuming that this will change the environment for you as a service provider as well. Yeah, that's definitely true. But before we talk about that, I mean, I think it's also really important to recognize what a big change has happened in terms of how childcare is viewed. So prior to the Child Care and Early Years Act, childcare in Ontario was governed under the Dane Nurseries Act. And that was under the auspice of the Ministry of Children and Youth Services and primarily focused on the health and safety and environmental factors. So when responsibility for childcare was transferred to the Ministry of Education, this was a really big step forward in viewing the early years as a really critical part of children's education. So while childcare has always had a goal of supporting parents and guardians in order for them to work or go to school, the focus has really broadened to include enhancing children's lives through positive early learning experiences. And I think that that's something that was always happening on the operational side. But I think the view of childcare is being that critical piece of the early learning experience and early learning phase of a child's life has really been a significant change. And it really I think helps understand the many advantages that being in childcare can have for children in terms of what they're able to, the skills that they're able to develop and also their ability and opportunity to form really meaningful relationships without other than members of their own families. And also say very significantly for children who have extra support needs, to have access to resource consultation services under the average child-belong model. I'm very glad that you've raised this because it did seem that with the move to the Ministry of Education, which was more focused on the purpose of the Ministry is the education care of children, whereas the Ministry of Children and Youth, it was more of a social welfare ministry, so it looked more at childcare in that kind of old fashioned way of, you know, it's a way of prevention.
program. And this has come up in a number of our conversation with folks about after all this effort that the early childhood field has put into establishing early learning and childcare with the emphasis on learning with child that we now seem to be having to have some of these discussions again because the purpose of the main deliverables of the Canada wide plan is more childcare for less cost. So again, that seems to tilt the discussion a bit more towards parents again and getting parents to work, particularly mothers to work. Are you feeling that in your discussions with community? You mentioned that you're a big part of your role is advocating. So are you feeling this change? I think there's been so much attention particularly now while we're still waiting for a new funding model on what it is that the C-well program has to accomplish and how it has to really help build a system. So you're right. I mean, the main focus so far has been on the affordability piece and the problem with the funding that has come out so far is that it has been focused on revenue replacement in order to reduce parent fees and it isn't sufficiently looking at all of the other aspects that are so critical to the quality pieces. First and foremost among those is workforce and that is probably the biggest challenge that we're facing right now. Childcare staff are professionals. They do a critically important job. They provide care and support and they meet the needs of children and families. There's a lot of aspects that go into that. And large segments of the sector continue to be negatively impacted by low wages, by inadequate benefits and by a lack of respect for an understanding of the work that child care staff do. COVID had a huge impact on child care, both during the extended periods that we were closed and then when we were one of the first services to reopen, when the restrictions first started to be lifted and the parameters upon which we had to operate required a big degree of pivoting and change of the way we were able to interact with parents who couldn't even come into the buildings and all of these aspects. And that was a really stressful time for staff. And I think the sector really is still rebounding from COVID and I think that extends beyond the fact that enrollment levels might not have come back to the same level staff who worked through that period are still having now to adjust to going back to different program operational pieces. But one of the other things that I think is really significant is that during COVID, people who are studying for their ACED diploma did not have the opportunity to do the practice replacements so they were able to complete their coursework online but they weren't able to do practice replacements and go into centers. So a lot of people who are now graduating and entering the field post graduation don't have that backbone of lived experience. So in fact, you know, for experience staff, a lot of them are dealing with levels of burnout and for inexperienced staff, they're coming in really in many cases without even that baseline, real understanding of what happens in a childcare space. So I think that there is a high level of stress and I think that if the workforce issues don't get resolved in a really meaningful way, not only will the sector be unable to meet even required ratios to operate program rooms, but it will really miss the potential to be a thriving system that's affordable, accessible and of high quality. I mean, we need a childcare system. We don't need these bits and pieces of initiatives that in fact are not helping to build that system. I mean, we need to get this right and we need to move this forward. I'm thinking of the figure that you provided at the top of this interview that 85% of your staff have their RECs that they have post-opploma training, they're registered with the college. We know from the study that we've just completed around knowing our numbers that there are centers upon centers that are operating without a single registered early childhood educator that they're in this situation where the province is giving them sort of a pass just to keep a bare minimum of services going. There's no doubt that these things have to be done in tandem, you know, that expansion. You don't get expansion without early childhood educators. You certainly don't get quality care without early childhood educators. And we know that programs, even that are open, aren't operating that capacity because they cannot find educators. And as you point out, those educators that are in place are tired. You know, they're tired and we also saw in the study that only a third of them say that they see themselves remaining in the sectors. It is a major challenge. And I think we're at the stage where we thank you for outlining the work that you do. And also to thank you for the work that you do. Would green and you and your staff really add to, you know, what makes Toronto special and what makes Toronto work. So thank you. Thank you. And thank you for joining us. There are seven other podcasts in the Better Together series. If you like what you heard, tell a friend or share your feedback with us at
[email protected]. Have a great day.
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