Episode 77 - Chris Watts: Family Annihilator

Ssi, älä kerrokenneille kentä osalaisuus. Glasiko? Herkukriilspartaat tai vaikka kaslevit entrekotet ja ripsit, jotka sitten viimeistellään rubella ja marinadeilla. Ruokatorilta suoraan krilliin. Nyt se tiet. Jokakokilla on salaisuutensa. Herkukriilstuotteet valituista hokeelannon ruokakauvoista. Ruokatorilta. Mikä on parempaa kuin hyvä A-B-se ruokaa? Tietysti se, jos syömällä voi voittaa itselleen viiden sadan euron arvoiseen hotelifiikonvon. Herkuttele itseisi hoteliin. Vilauta S-etukorttiä, kun ostat A-B-se- ja osallistun automaattisesti viikottaiseen hoteli arvontaan. Sitten ei muuta kuin syömään. Ja nukkumaan. A-B-se. [Musiikkia] -I'm Suruuti. -I'm Hannah. Ja joku, Turaan. Tämä on tietysti minun muuta, kun on tietysti viikossa. Kerralla on jälkeen 2018. Ja näitä on se, että se on näitä, että viikossa on näitä, mutta se on tietysti viikossa. Ja se on tietysti domaattisesti ja on tietysti viikossa. Ja sosiaalana esittamist SAASCÄR nous Night polityneποι Mickon kautta toenissa, Rosee Ne hulen ella AionPartnot Extra Maalit seinhtia Sin dense. Ja se on ennen kautta. Tämä on kautta, että he ovat näitä perustaa kautta. Kuten kautta, että mitä on kautta? Jos haluan, että jos haluan, että se on kautta, että jos haluan, että se on kautta. Ja jos haluan, että se on kautta, että se on kautta. Chris & Shannon Watts, metin 2010. On Facebook, After Chris' cousin's wife. Wow, that's a connection. Who happened to be Shannon's mate? Suggested that she connect with him. I'm no so many people who've met on Facebook, but I've never managed it myself. It seems like a very. how'd it how? I think this was maybe like. like this happened in 2010. I don't think to people still me. I feel like people now me on Instagram and Snapchat and dating apps. I think in 2010, maybe. Maybe, that's true. Shannon was going through, as she described, some serious health challenges. She had just been diagnosed with lupus. For Shannon, this was one of the darkest times of her life. She quit her job of nine years. And in her own words, lost a lot of friends, who couldn't understand her condition. In a bid to replace the life and the friends she was slipping away from. Shannon spent a lot of time online and made a lot of friends on social media. But she said that she still felt like no one understood her. Then she got a friend request from Chris and she accepted. One thing led to another and soon they were in a relationship. Shannon felt like he was there for her and he understood her. And in her video journals from the time, Shannon credited Chris for lifting her out of her despair. And this is a case where we don't have to wonder too much about who's the source on this or that. There are so many videos on the internet of Shannon talking about her and Chris' life. That it's like doing interviews with her. It's really quite uncanny because more than any other case we've done, I think, during the research for this, it felt like, yeah, like you said, it was almost like you were doing interviews with her. But you really almost felt like you knew these people because I was just wondering, you know, how did these two meet? Just stuck it into Google. And there was a YouTube video taken from Shannon's Facebook where she's talking about how they met. It's quite eerie. It's really eerie. We do have to be quite careful taking what we see on Shannon's and the family's social media as a hundred percent fact. There is a big rose tinted filter over their entire lives, as it was portrayed online. We'll talk more about that as we go along. So after meeting on Facebook and hitting it off, Shannon and Chris got married on November 30, 2012. In the next big step towards their American dream, they went on to buy a five bedroom house in Frederick, Colorado in 2013. And that same year in December, they had their first daughter, Bella. Bella was followed by their second daughter Celeste or Ceci, who was born just two years later in July 2015. They seemed like a totally ordinary, average middle class suburban family. And they seemed happy. And not particularly unusually, Shannon was very much a social media addict. She clearly loved her family and shared a picture-perfect version of their lives on Facebook. Shannon's posts were very much like an affirmation of the American dream. To outsiders, it looked like she had it all. She had now a satisfying career that allowed her to travel. She had two gorgeous little girls, a doting husband, and now a new baby on the way. Her Facebook page, which has now been memorialized, featured picture after picture of her and Chris and the family. And yes, Shannon's social media posts painted a really pretty picture. But one that seems, or seemed, almost way too good to be true. On Facebook, Shannon often referred to Chris as her rock and as her best friend. She would post beaming pictures of the two of them in honor of something like happy husband appreciation day, saying, "I couldn't imagine a better man for us." Is husband appreciation day real? I feel like it shouldn't be real. I feel like everything's real. Another made-up day on Valentine's Day, Shannon posted on Instagram. "I love this man more than words can say. He's my rock, my love, my biggest fan, supporter, and my husband. I couldn't have handpicked a better man to call my husband and father to our girls." And then there are the many, many videos that Shannon posted to her Facebook page all sharing Chris to be a loving father to his children. There's a whole video clip of Shannon telling him that she's pregnant with their third child and he's all excited. Asking her, "Really? That's awesome." In one clip, his daughter Bella even sings about her hero dad. And I have always, I was gonna say secretly then, but not secretly at all because I talk about it all the time, people who constantly post ultra-positive social media posts. Are they really as happy as they say they are? I always end up thinking, "Who are you trying to convince?" And if you're that happy, why aren't you just living your life instead of constantly trying to show me it? I'm just thinking about this today. I engage more with Instagram than I do with Facebook these days. And who do I follow on Instagram? It's people I know drag queens, dogs, and pole dancers, like that's. Those are the people I follow and I follow the people I don't know because I think what they're doing is interesting, but it's usually more to do with their job rather than their life. I also think it's a part of it of people thinking that they're famous and that people are really interested in what they're doing. Of course, the whole social media experience is just like a deeply rooted in our narcissism and feeling of somehow all of these people who maybe barely know me are super interested in what I'm eating on a Thursday afternoon. Like, it is a deep sense of, "I'm not linking this to shenan being a narcissist. God, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying social media use an hour obsession with it is driven by that. We've completely gamified our lives. The likes, the retweets, oh this, it pumps us full of something. Doesn't it? And to clarify, we're not trying to denigrate shenan, she was a kind, loving mother who wanted her family and herself to be happy and she wanted her marriage to work. Always saying really is that what shenan was doing is so not out of the ordinary. Oh no, not at all, everyone's at it. But, her marriage wasn't working. Because Chris Watts was a dangerous man, shenan just had no idea. I completely understand why everyone was so shocked by this case. It's brutal what Chris Watts does, but domestic abuse and familial murder is, if anything, shockingly all too common. When we talk about shenan's online behaviour and the family's social media persona, it's not to mock shenan, it's to try and understand. And it's not just us who thinks that this is important. I read an interview with a woman named Erin Vogel, who's a postdoctoral fellow at the University of California San Francisco Department of Psychiatry. And she hypothesizes the same thing. She says, "When someone's life appears to be perfect on social media, it's hard to tell whether things are actually going well or whether the frequent positive social media posts might be an attempt to cope with some major problems." For some, posting on social media all the time may be a way to try and convince themselves and others that things are going well when in reality they're struggling. Getting likes and comments from other people on social media can bring temporary happiness. And posting frequently can be a way to assure others that everything is fine. And of course, like everybody's social media feed is just like a polished veneer of what we how we want to market ourselves. But it's the constant posting of super positive messages. I think that's the difference. And there's one particular post that Shanann shared that really stuck with me. It was a text exchange between her and Chris. And in this conversation, she had sent him a photo of her ultrasound scan because at the time she died, when she was 15 weeks pregnant. And he replied, "Little peanut. I love him/her already." Shanann then shared a screenshot of this conversation on her Facebook with the caption, "I love Chris. He's the best dad us girls could ask for." Ja se on kertaa, että se on tullut kertaa, koska se on. screams to me of a woman who was deeply insecure in her marriage. And it felt to me anyway, like she was desperately trying to convince herself that Chris was happy and that he was excited about their third child, because as we go on to see Chris Watts was gaslighting the hell out of Shenan. I think the man that she made Chris out to be on social media was the man that Shenan wanted him to be. Do you think there's an element of, oh, but look at all of the nice things he does. So therefore the not nice things aren't as important. I'm just gonna flood all of the positive stuff. Of course. I mean, how many people are in relationships that are just like as long as the good stuff outweighs the bad, this is good enough, and I'll ignore the bad things as long as the good things are really good. And almost by sharing these moments that her and Chris have where she does feel like, oh yes, no, he is happy. This is gonna be fine. And putting it on social media is almost it feels to me like a way to amplify it. It's like stamping it as authentic isn't it? Like it's out there in the world. Ever other people have seen it. It's not just me. Also the sharing over on there is because when you know something is true deep down, your constant worry is that other people will realise she knows that her marriage is in trouble. So I feel in the back of her mind she would have been worried that other people would realise. So by sharing all these positive messages on social media is a way to ever everyone's gaze from what's really happened. And Chris as well is very involved in this. You can see him in the videos he's playing along. He wants the world to believe that he is this perfect family man. But privately, Shnan didn't seem totally convinced of how happy their marriage really was. They were cracks that didn't show through these images and rosy posts. In 2015, the same year CC was born, the couple declared bankruptcy. They were in debt for $448,820. I say that right? Yeah, numbers. For us, what's the word? I was going to say Philistine but that's like an art thing isn't it? For us not maths people that is nearly half a million dollars. And of course a financial crisis puts a huge amount of stress on a relationship. It's the leading cause of divorce. But it wasn't just the money. Something else had changed. In the weeks leading up to the murders, Shnan had felt Chris grow distant and cold. We have a lot of information not just from social media but also from the almost 2000 page report released by the World County District Attorney's Office about this case. According to the notes from the police interviews with Shnan's best friend, Christina Michim, Shnan seemed to realise that her marriage was really in trouble around the time that she and her daughters took a long trip that summer to see some family in North Carolina. They were gone for five weeks. So between June 27th to July 30th during the five weeks, Chris stayed at home to work but he went to join them for their final and sixth week. And according to Christina, who Shnan had been texting everything about her marriage too, Chris came to Shnan in that final week. Quote as a totally different man. While in North Carolina, Shnan text Christina saying that he wouldn't touch her or kiss her anymore and that he was being cold towards her. Shnan also told Christina that Chris didn't want the baby she was pregnant with and that he was scared. Shnan said that he had told her that he was happy with just having the two girls and that he didn't think that they as a couple were compatible anymore. In the text exchange, Christina asked Shnan what the hell had changed in six weeks, to which Shnan replied. He said he had a lot of time to think. But texts show that the cracks had started to appear before this. In a text exchange between Chris and Shnan on July 10th, so a couple of weeks before she goes away, Shnan wrote to Chris, "You okay? It's like you don't want to talk." And Chris replied, "I'm going to really struggle to get through this. I'm fine, baby." The last few weeks at work have put a lot of responsibility on me with new people. I didn't mean to seem short. Boo. I love you to the moon and back. Shnan then messages him, telling him, "I miss you, but I feel like all you want to do is work out and run." And then Chris replies, saying that running helped to clear his head. On July 24th, so when Shnan is in North Carolina and Chris is still at home, she texts him saying, "I realized during this trip what's missing in our relationship. It's only one way emotions and feelings. I can't come back like this. I need you to meet me halfway. You don't consider others at all, nor think about others' feelings." To which Chris again replies that he was sorry and that he loves her. Shnan responded, "I try to give you space, but while you're working and living the bachelor life, I'm carrying our third child and fighting with our two kids daily and trying to work and make money. It's not hard texting love you and miss you. If you don't mean it, then I get it, but we need to talk. I kept looking at my phone all night and no response from you." Like, seriously, we didn't just start dating yesterday. We've been together for eight years and have 2.5 kids together. And they really just feel like these texts are so revealing. He's so pathetic. She's pregnant. She's your wife. And clearly, she needed his support and time. And he's just like, "Yeah, yeah, I love you. Sorry, I'm busy." And then just continues to actually distant. And that line that Shnan says about them not just having started to date is exactly it. He's acting. Don't you think he's acting like a guy that she just went on a few dates with, who's lost a bit of interest. And he's almost acting like she's asking for a huge commitment from him as a guy she barely knows. Does feel a bit like that. It feels a bit like he's gas lying. That's exactly what he's doing. He's just being like, "Oh, everything's fine. Don't worry about it. I don't really understand why you're so upset. Everything's clearly fine." Yeah. And then I'm not going to touch you or come near you or want to talk to you and I'm just going to work out all the time. You've told me specifically the behavior that bothers you and I'm going to continue to do it because I don't think it's wrong. And on August 5th, there's another text exchange. And remember, by now, by August 5th, Chris had joined Shnan and the girls in North Carolina. Shnan messaged Chris saying, "I don't know how you fell out of love with me in five and a half weeks. Or if this has been going on for a long time. But you don't plan another baby if you're not in love. Kids don't deserve a broken family. If you're done, don't love me. Don't want this to work out and not happy anymore. And only staying because of the kids. I need you to tell me." And that's a very fair request. She's not like, "Don't leave me. I'll kill myself if you leave me." She's like, "If this is what you want, if you want to go and you don't love me anymore, just tell me." And no, he replies, "I'm not just staying because of the kids. They are my light and that will not change. I didn't fall out of love with you in five weeks. That's impossible. I don't want to erase eight years just like that. I'm not sure what's in my head. But this will all get fixed." Again, no clear answer. Which is what she's begging him for. And he's just like, "I don't know. Clish A, Clish A, they're my light. I love you. I don't want to erase this. I don't know what's in my head. Such a fucking loser. He's such a coward. He's so gross." And she's telling him, you know, if you're done, just tell me. And I'm sure, even if you do say that to somebody, you're not going to react great if he does turn around and say, "Oh yeah, you're right. I am done. Divorce happens. That's not uncommon. So why can't he just tell her that he wants to separate, that he wants a divorce? Why does he keep dragging it out and fucking with her head? It's like he doesn't want this anymore, but that he doesn't want to throw away that persona he's built for himself as like the nice family guy." I think that's exactly it. In the grand screen scheme of things, like they've been, obviously, I'm not defending him because he murdered his children and his wife. But let's pretend he's not a murderer. If you have been married for eight years and then you have five weeks away from each other and you've had time to think about it, maybe you wouldn't be quite at the point where, you know, this is over. At the end of five weeks, it's a big decision. However, you should be a little bit more transparent about it than he's been. We're talking about this with the perfect perspective of knowing how this ends, but relationships are obviously complicated. They're obviously difficult, but I think Chris Watts from everything you read, he gaslights her constantly and he does seem to be very emotionally abusive with her the way that he behaves. And another thing that's quite interesting is the thing that Shanann gets most annoyed about is Chris only ever wanting to work out. He's just running all the time and not spending enough time with the kids. And this evolution of Chris Watts is very interesting because when Chris and Shanann got married, Shanann is hot and Chris, who at the time was 27, looks like he's about 45. Like he really is not doing well. He looks like shit. And then if you look at the more recent pictures, Shanann is still hot. And Chris, who has clearly become a fitness fanatic, gets trim. And he, you can watch the YouTube interviews with him just after this hat. He's a lean guy. Google, Shanann and Chris Watts, waiting and look at how shit he looks at their wedding compared to how he looks after David Mide for eight years. So is it possible that he figured I'm hot now? Maybe I can do better. Maybe I could have a different life, a hot person life. This is my mediocre person life. So as Shanann said, he wanted to be living the bachelor's life and during those five weeks that Shanann and the girls were away, Chris was indeed living the bachelor's life. Because guess what? He had a mistress, a woman named Nicole Kessinger. Nicole and Chris had met at work. And with his wife away, like Hannah said, he got the chance to date Nicole, like a single guy. The two went on dates to the great Sandoon's National Park in Southern Colorado, and they went to museums in Boulder. And one night they even went for dinner at a place called the Rusty Bucket. Sounds delightful. Take me on a date to the Rusty Bucket. Give me a fucking tetanus shot after, like what is this? And Shanann had actually spotted this particular transaction at the Rusty bucket on their credit card. But because it was the $62 and suspicious about it, she asked Chris. She's such a amateur. Get another card. That's not hard. You're in half a million dollars worth of debt. What are you doing? Well, I'll go to the rusty bucket, clearly. He's like the kind of person that is completely trying to just separate himself from reality throughout this entire case. And with credit cards, it's easy to do that. Doesn't feel like real money. Chris has just taken Nicole out for $60 dinners. And yeah, when she and I asked him about it, he told her. Just don't worry about it, baby. I went to the baseball with a few mates. And afterwards, we went for dinner. And I had a beer and some salmon. And that's why it was so expensive. What the fuck? Salmon. Especially in a place called the Rusty Bucket. I'm guessing doesn't cost $60, surely. How much beer is he saying you drank? Just say you paid for a mate and he paid you back in cash. Something that is a better life than I had the salmon. Such an arata. And during these five weeks apart, you could feel the suspicion. And rightly so. Shenan thought something was going on. And the text that we went through during the same time period really showed that frustration. But we also know now that Chris got a real taste. I think during these five weeks, for what life could be like without Shenan and his kids cramping his style. And Nicole, the woman he's having an affair with, is an interesting character as well. When she was originally interviewed by police, she told them that she had only just met Chris and that she barely knew him. She simply said that she had thought he was attractive. And he wasn't wearing a wedding ring. When they admit, he told her that he was in the final stages of a divorce. But there's a bit more to her than this. We'll come back to it. Despite her suspicions, Shenan had no idea about Nicole and despite the tensions in their marriage, Shenan wasn't just going to walk away. She was fighting to save her eight-year marriage. And according to another friend of Shenan's called Addy, towards the end of their time in North Carolina, Chris had come round to the idea of having another child. Once he found out that it was a boy. Wasn't it a planned one or a he saw his flip-flopping? So they planned a baby and then he decides he doesn't want to sit and then he changes his mind. Yeah. I don't know how planned it was. I think it was like she accuses him of like, "Why would you have another baby if you weren't in love with me?" So it kind of sounds like it was planned. And then when she surprises him in that video, he's like, "Oh my God, amazing." And then he's like, "Actually, I don't want a baby. I'm happy with just the situation as it is." Right. Because we're bankrupt as it is with two kids. When they're in North Carolina, when he goes to join her, Shenan finds out that it's a boy. And then apparently he's like, "Oh, okay, maybe then I can make it work." But in those five weeks when he's not with Shenan and he's with Nicole, he's like, "Yan Nicole, I love you. I want to be with you. Fuck Shenan. I'm going to ignore all of her texts. And we're going to go out to the rusty bucket for dinners." And then when he goes to North Carolina in that week, he's like, "Oh no, I don't want this anymore. Oh, it's a boy. Oh, maybe we can make it work." Trying to fit into their perfect ideal of her, maybe. I don't know. He's also kind of strikes me as a person who doesn't give a shit. I don't know. Yeah, it's strange. It is weird. So he agreed to try counseling. To try and make it work with Shenan. And I also wonder maybe, you know, he agrees to canceling agrees to try and make it work. Says maybe if it's a boy, it's okay. Do you think maybe he's just saying that to shut her up? Because she keeps asking him what's going on? Well, maybe he's already decided he's going to kill her and he knows it doesn't really matter. I wonder if that's what it is. I wonder if it's like, he's like, "Shit, I let the cat out of the bag. I told her that I wanted to end this. She reacted really badly. I had to deal with all these things. I had to give her responses. I got away with it for five weeks while she was in North Carolina, but now she's going to come home and be on a meet every single day. Let's tell her what she wants to hear and then I'll just kill her. Maybe he's already thinking about that." Once they returned from North Carolina, Shenan had to go on a work trip to Arizona until the 12th of August, thinking that they just needed some time alone to work on their marriage. Shenan planned a romantic getaway for them the following weekend. So that's the weekend of the 19th of August. But a romantic getaway was the last thing on Chris' mind. By then, Shenan, her unborn baby, who she planned to call Nico, and her two daughters, would already be dead. Because at the same time that Shenan was planning this trip, Chris Watts was with his mistress, Nicole Kessinger, discussing his next steps, and the apartment that he planned to get when he separated from his wife. "Yet good luck. You're in a fucking shitload of day. And on that Sunday." So the afternoon of August 12, while Shenan was still away with work, Chris Watts had taken four-year-old Bella and three-year-old Ceci to a birthday party. And this next bit is honestly one of the most disgusting parts of this entire story. As his two young daughters played in the pool, their father sat by the side, texting a coworker of his, Cody Roberts. He was texting Cody to set up a plan to dispose of the bodies of his wife and daughters. Right there, while they're playing in front of him. And by 5pm that evening, he was all set. Chris Watts worked for a company called Anadaco Petroleum that sounds like a made-up company in a Bond film, doesn't it? So fake. And he had been texting Cody to set up a site visit the next morning to one of the more distant oil fields that was managed by his company. It was where the bodies of Shenan, Bella, and Celeste would be discovered just days after they went missing. Now just to be totally clear, this guy, Cody Roberts, had no idea what Chris had planned. Cody worked out on that oil field. And Chris just told him that he needed to come there the next morning to inspect a possible leak. Cody told him, okay fine. He did tell police later that he thought it was slightly weird that Chris had texted him on a Sunday. But he said that he liked Chris and he hadn't thought too much of it, especially because no one really liked coming out to that oil field because it was so far out. So for him to text him about it, it must have been important. And this is the thing, because the fact that Chris was texting Cody about the oil field on Sunday afternoon and given that his family were killed in the early hours of Monday morning, proves beyond a doubt to me just how premeditated all of this was. When he was in the US, he was on the dashboard. Turi Pistefi. So with his plan in place, he took the girls home from the pool party, gave them both showers, bought them pizza and put them to bed. And we know that this is true and that the girls were still alive that evening because Shenan's father spoke to the girls on FaceTime. The girls were both desperate to see Shenan who was due to return home late that night from her work trip. Chris claimed that he put the girls to bed before 8 pm, but that Bella woke up twice, running out to ask when her mum would be home. Chris assured her that she would see her mother in the morning, but that would never happen because just hours later, Shenan did indeed return home, but soon after, her and the girls were all murdered in their house. Cody Roberts told the Colorado Bureau of Investigation that as they had discussed via text, Chris Watts did arrive to the service 629 site on Monday morning and he was alone and Cody told the police that Chris didn't seem to be acting oddly that day, but he did note that Chris had made multiple trips to his car. Unbeknownst to Cody, Chris had just buried his wife in a shallow grave and dumped his daughters in an oil tank out there. And after killing his family and disposing of their bodies, Chris spent a normal day at work and casually texted his girlfriend Nicole Kessinger. He even, and this is so weird to me, he even made calls to a real estate agent about selling their family home and called the girls school and told them that they would not actually be enrolling for the start of the next term as had been planned. This is what I don't understand about this whole thing. He wants to get a new apartment, start a new life with the call, whatever. Why doesn't he just disappear? Why does he ring their school, ring in a state agent? This is all stuff they can trace him through. Like, what is he doing? Does he seriously think arrogance? That no one's gonna notice? Yeah, I guess. I think so. I was like, why did he call that school? But I wondered, I don't know. Maybe it was a private school and he needed to tell them so that they wouldn't take the money or something. I don't know. In between all of these bizarre calls that he's making and the very normal day he's having at work, he was googling Metallica lyrics and the song that he googled was called "Battery". And this song includes the lyrics, smashing through the boundaries, lunacy has found me and pounding out aggression turns into obsession. "Can't kill the battery, can't kill the family." "What?" I'm lost for words, honestly, like, it's just, "How does he think no one's gonna see that?" I don't know. I don't know. Chris is obviously having a very normal time after, or trying to have a very normal time after. He's just killed and disposed his family. "But what?" Actually happened the morning of August 13th. Well, Chanel was spotted coming home from her work trip to Arizona. She's caught on a neighbor's security camera being dropped home by a friend, another Nicole. This Nicole is called Nicole Atkinson, and she becomes very important in this case, at 148 AM on August 13th. That's a good friend. I cannot think of a single human being in the world. I would drop home at two o'clock in the morning. I think they were on the work trip together. So when they came home, Nicole dropped home before she went home. And according to Chris, in the initial police reports, at around five AM, he and Chanel had had an emotional discussion, and those are the words he uses, an emotional discussion. And apparently, this consisted of him telling Chanel that he wanted to separate himself a house. He said that after the conversation, Chanel was upset. So he left her in bed and decided to go out. He said that on his way out, he checked that the girls were asleep and left. But Chanel and the girls weren't in the house at all. And it wasn't long before the alarm was raised. Nicole Atkinson, the friend who had dropped Chanel home that morning, was the first to notice that something was wrong. She said that she had called Chanel later that day to see how she was. Chanel was 15 weeks pregnant, and she hadn't been feeling well during their business trip. Nicole Atkinson and Chanel were close, so she thought it was odd when Chanel didn't pick up the phone or reply to any messages. Chanel had also had a scan that day at 10 AM what she had missed. Nicole thought this was especially weird, because she said that Chanel usually texted her after a trip like that. At first, Nicole thought that maybe Chanel was just tired, but soon, she became worried. So Nicole went to Chanel's house to check on her, when she arrived, she saw Chanel's car in the garage. So she figured she must be in. Nicole said she knocks on the door, but there was no response, so she decided to open it. But the latch was on so she couldn't get in. So Nicole called Chris and asked him to come home. She was concerned because Chanel was pregnant, she had lupus and she was diabetic. Chanel wasn't prone to fainting or anything, but Nicole is clearly just being incredibly careful. And also considering that she knew Chanel was with the two little girls, I think she just wanted to be sure that everyone was okay. But when Nicole called Chris, instead of, I guess like she expected for him to be as worried as she was, he just seemed super vague about where Chanel was. He told her that, oh, she's with the girls at a playday, but he kept saying that he didn't know where or who with. Such a bad liar. And finally, at around 1.30 PM, so 12 hours after she had last seen her friend, Nicole called the police to do a welfare check at the house, because she couldn't get Chris to come home. The police arrived, but obviously also they couldn't get inside. So Nicole carried on calling Chris and when she told him that the police were there, he eventually came home. When he arrived, he opened the door and gave them his consent to check the house. During the search, Chris found Chanel's wedding ring and said that he had found it on the bedside table. They also found Chanel's purse, phone, and credit cards in the house. And we're Chanel and the girls missing and all of the stuff still in the house. Detective Baumhover from the Frederick Police Department was called. Well, she can't have got very far without any money, her phone or her car can she? She is so stupid. Why would you leave those things in the house? Why would you yourself still be in the house? That's what I can't get my hair around. I don't know. Chris admitted to the detective that he and Chanel had talked the night before about separating and that she had been upset. He was very careful to say that it was an emotional, but civil discussion and definitely not an argument. He said, after this amazingly civil discussion regarding their separation after eight years of marriage, he had left the house at 5.27am and gone to work. The police checked the story by looking at the neighbor's security cameras. So the neighbor, Nathaniel Trina stitch's camera, showed Nicole dropping Chanel off at 1.48am. Then it showed Chris backing his truck into the driveway at 5.27am, a short time later. It also showed him driving away. You couldn't see the rear of the truck on the camera. So when the police asked what Chris had been doing, he said that he was loading his tools for work. But neighbors said that they had never seen him load his tools like that before. Also, him telling them that he's gone to work at 5.27am is particularly specific. Chris's demeanor during this time was noted by detectives as nonchalant. He seemed rather unsurprised and unconcerned that his wife and his daughters were missing. Chanel's mother Sandra Ruschek was immediately suspicious of Chris when she discovered that her daughter was missing. She even called the detective Dave Baumhover and told him to check the GPS on Chris' truck. That's mad to be that suspicious of your daughter's husband so immediately. I think Chanel was very close to her family. And if she told her friends in this much detail, like Christine, exactly what was happening, I think she would have been very open with her mother about the relationship between her and Chris. But still, it's crazy that immediately her mum jumps the conclusion that he's killed her. The thing she jumps to is he's killed her and buried her in a field. I guess because even if they thought she had left him and run off, they would have thought she would have just come home to them. That's true. And at 7am the next day, so on Tuesday, the 14th of August, with neither Chanel nor the girls having come home, detectives identified all three as missing. At this point, detective Dave Baumhover was concerned enough that he requested the assistance of the Colorado Bureau of investigation. And by that afternoon, Chris Watts was standing on his porch, giving the now infamous and weird as fuck interview, saying that not having his family at home was earth shattering and this interview. It's about seven minutes long and it's so cringe and infuriating to watch. I remember when it first came out after Chanel and the girls were first reported missing. And I remember watching it and thinking, "Shit, I bet he did it." And here's just a brief snippet. We will post the full one on Facebook, so you guys can watch it because you really do have to watch it to get the full flavor. And then walked in the house and nothing was bad. Nothing was here. I mean, she wasn't. She wasn't here. The kids weren't here. Nobody was here. I called her earth three times, texted her about three times, just to say, you know, what's going on? Like I could have that for the half of our call her and texted her once. Like, maybe she was just busy. She just got back. You know, like everybody's probably calling her from her trip. She just got back from Arizona. And I figured she was just busy. But when her friend showed up, that's what it was like. It registered like, all right, this isn't right. I think she was just a ball of peace. I mean, right now I don't even want to just like throw anything out there. Like, I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and with the kids. But I mean, could she event? Could she just take it off? I don't know. But if somebody has her and they're not safe, like, I want them back now. Like, that's what's in my head. Like, if they're safe right now, they're going to come back. But if they're not safe right now, that's the not knowing part. Like, if they're not safe last night, I was at every lie in the house on. I was hoping that I would just get just ran over by the kids running in the door. And it's like, they're all rushing me. But it didn't happen. And it was just a traumatic night trying to be here. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I made my kids in my life. I mean, those smiles a lot of my life. And this last night, during the evening dinner, it was just like, I missed them. I mean, I missed telling them, hey, you got to eat that. Or you're not going to get just certain. I'm just like, not going to get your snack after. But I missed that. Like, I missed them. Cuddle up on their couches. They have like a mini-mouse couch. And so if you had couched that, they'd cuddle up on and watch, go bubble guffies or something. And it was just like, I was-- it was turning me before last night. I needed that last night. And nobody to be here last night, and then go into their rooms and not know that I wasn't going to turn the rain machines on. And I know that I wasn't going to turn the monitor on. No, I wasn't going to kiss them the bed tonight. It was-- that's why last night I was horrible. And this is the thing with this. It's just all eye, eye, eye. They weren't here. And it's what I needed last night. I needed a hug. I needed to see them. Fuck off. Do you know who he reminds me of? Tia Sharp's granddad. Yeah. When he does his press conference, and he's saying all of the things about how upset he is, how affected he is by the whole thing. But he-- he fucking did it. It's the act of appearing upset that they think is going to throw them off the trail somehow. Don't you think he doesn't even seem that upset, though? He seems-- No, he does. He seems really defensive. He's got his arms crossed. He's like, and he looks really blank in the face. But then, you know, we could pick apart so many different people. You could watch people who are guilty, people are witness, and giving press conferences, and everybody could do something that makes them look guilty. So I don't put much stock in that. But I do find his language very bizarre. One particular thing. He keeps saying things like, I miss them. By this point, they've only been gone a night. So is it just me or is it-- is that weird? Because it sounds. No, I think it's really weird. To say, I miss them. To me, kind of, sounds like you know that they aren't coming back and you've resigned yourself to that fact. You know, he's never saying come back. He never wants addresses Shenan directly as if he thinks she maybe she's run off and she's watching. Because that's what he tells the police he thinks has happened. But he never is like, Shenan, I'm sorry. Come home. We'll talk. Let's figure this out. He never directly addresses that. Because he fucking knows she's dead. Even though his words are cringe enough, said you really do have to watch us to get the full effect. There's so many weird ticks that he does like he shrugs and gulps throughout it. It's such a mistake what he did going on TV. I also thought it was weird that a missing person's case I suppose there are children involved so maybe it's a bit more high profile but for a local news station to be at their house the next day seems very swift to me. The perfect like front page photo though aren't they? Not to put it crudely but like how the media would perceive this case it's like this. All American mum her two little girls who are super cute disappeared. This guy who everyone can't stop talking about like a quote unquote attractive guy it's like the perfect scenario for the media and I think they just loved it they jumped all over her. But this press conference pushed an already suspicious sandy shenan's mum over the edge. She called the police again and told them that Chris was acting quote weird and out of the ordinary. She said that Chris was telling people that he has to go to work and that he just doesn't seem right. I think any boss in the world would say my wife and kids are missing do you mind if I come in later. Sandy told the police that she felt he was going out to pour oil on the bodies to dispose of them somewhere but sandy didn't need to give the police too much because they were already suspicious of Chris. Doesn't sandy just come across like a fucking psychic in this though. She does a bit like how does she know I suppose if he's working with oil that would be the logical deal though. Track his GPS he's disposing of their bodies with oil like it's weird it's quite eerie. And at 415 pm on Wednesday the 15th of August police investigators started a drone search of the oil and gas site that Chris had visited the day his family had vanished. There the police spotted a bedsheet matching the pattern of pillowcases and a top sheet that they had recovered from a kitchen bin in the Watts family home earlier that day. Police also spotted quote "fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks." And that same evening so after two days of investigating police discovered that Chris Watts was engaged in an affair with his colleague Nicole Kessinger. So bingo we've got a motive. I mean I guess more than a motive of just being married to the person. Yeah it's like the worst thing that could happen. Your wife is missing they find out you're having an affair and it gets just worse because phone records from the Sunday night the family had last been seen showed that the pair Nicole and Chris had spoken for hours. And with their suspicions raised police also looked into Nicole and found that at 5 pm on Monday so by the time that the fact that her boyfriend's pregnant wife and two kids were missing is all over the news Nicole Kessinger had been googling "can cops trace text messages?" and how long do cell companies keep text messages? Come on it's like they're not even trying to get away with it. I know. It's because at this point she doesn't know that they found out about the affair so it's like she's trying to make sure she knows that they'll check his phone so is she checking will they be able to figure out about the affair? And like we said Nicole before claimed that she knew nothing about anything and barely knew Chris. But the report shows Nicole in a very different context. Her Google history is not the best because on July 24th Kessinger had Google searched the phrase "man I'm having an affair with says he will leave his wife." Doesn't really sound like you thought he was divorced. Does it? Nicole if you're wondering if the man you're seeing will leave his wife. Oh is there a more tragic Google search than that? I don't know. I can't think of one if the real Nicole Nicole Nicole. And on the 4th August at 12.45am she's up late wondering about this. Nicole Kessinger searched Google for wedding dresses for over two hours and also Google things like marrying your mistress. Now that also seems to contradict her previous statement that she barely knew the guy because that doesn't really sound like you hardly knew him. Does it Nicole? I don't know I think about marrying people who hold the door open for me. Spent two hours googling wedding dresses and wondering if he'll marry your mistress. Wedding dresses I probably would be the marrying your mistress maybe not. And look we aren't here to drag Nicole. She wasn't the one who was married. She wasn't the one who was being unfaithful and she wasn't the one who murdered anybody. And we also do know that Chris is good at putting on a front at being slick and manipulative but there are some things in this case that make Nicole Kessinger look really shitty. Because as everything came out in the media, Nicole was clearly worried about if she'd be publicly shamed by her role in this relationship. So she started googling about the mistress of another infamous family killer Scott Peterson who killed his pregnant wife Lacey in 2002. She had been googling did people hate Amber Frey. Amber Frey is the mistress of Scott Peterson. Okay she's worried about how she'll be seen. I can understand that but there's another Google that she does that is a little more revolting. She had been googling about a book deal that Amber Frey had got and also how much money Amber had made from her infidelity with a killer. The police also examined Nicole's phone and found hours worth of searches for shenan Watts. And after the murder, a search using the phrase can cops trace text messages. Yes and they can also trace your search history Nicole. Nicole also admitted to deleting all of her communication with Chris before handing her phone over to the police. We aren't going to spend too much longer talking about Nicole but she does come across as a bit of a dick. In the police interview she seems to contradict herself all over the place saying that she didn't even know his wife's name until it was in the news. That has to be Bollocks with all the social media exposure the Watts family had. How could she not have known his real situation? And even if she didn't know his real situation Bollocks that she didn't know his wife ex wife wife divorcing wife's name come on. She spent half her time on Google googling things. You don't think she went on Facebook and tried to look up who his ex wife was. Fuck off. Yeah. She's she's full of shit. But just being a shitty person and a liar doesn't make you a killer. Do you think she knew he was going to kill them though? I don't think she knew he was going to kill them. No, I don't. I know. She knew that he was married and I think she was like I want him. But just being a shitty person doesn't make you a murderer. So we can't put her no absolutely no. What I don't want to do is like put her on a level with Chris with Chris Watts. She just is a bit of a dick. But I do definitely think like I said like she definitely knew more than she was letting on. And if you listen to the police interviews you'll definitely know why I think that because she even tries to say in the police interviews at one point that she was trying to convince him to try and make his marriage work. Nobody is going to believe that especially not police who were trained in interrogation. Like why are you even bothering? Oh my god she's just so full of shit. And then this point when she's like oh and then I found out he had two kids and they are so cute. And she actually says it like that and I was like shut the fuck up. But like I said like being a killer doesn't make you a killer or even in a complex. I don't think she knew anything about it. But before we move on from Nicole and Chris Watts's fucking love affair or whatever we want to call it, there is one thing I do want to laugh at and it's the love letters that these two shed because bloody hell he is so tragic. Firstly during those five weeks when it was just the two of them and he had just come back from there like get away at the sand dunes resort or whatever. He had googled love letter and love lyrics. He couldn't even write anything himself. He's such a loser. But even after all that googling all he managed to come up with was this. Big things will happen this year. Dreams will come true. That smile, that stare, that laugh, that giggle gets me every time. When I'm around you, I can feel peace in the atmosphere. You keep my engine roaring when you're pushing on the pedal. Oh my fucking life. And he uses the wrong yore because he's a fucking bell end. Oh well don't be so pedantic. Language evolves. I will be pedantic. These are pricks. Back to the investigation. His grammatical crimes. Far out outrageous. Outrageous. I should really annoys me. So by this point that we're out when they've discovered about Nicole, they've checked her out. It's been two days since Chanel and the girls went missing and Chris Watts was asked to take a polygraph test which does my arfieldings towards them definitely shook things loose in this case. Before the polygraph, Chris was still playing the shocked and confused husband card, saying "It honestly just makes me sick to my stomach because this is something that I would never do. There's no way I would harm anyone in this family at all and I'm telling you that absolute true." But polygraph conductor Tammy Lee told him after his pathetic attempt at lying, it's completely clear that you were not honest during the testing and I think you already know that. You did not pass the polygraph test. But even after he fails the polygraph test, Chris just keeps on lying so that agents tried a different approach. They brought in Chris's dad, Ronnie. Ronnie had flown across the country to be with Chris and the agents told him "You don't want to lie to your father, do you?" And unbelievably, this tactic worked. Chris asked to be able to speak to his dad alone, saying that he'd tell the truth if he could just speak to his dad. Ronnie was told that they would be recorded and he agreed to go in. But he was not prepared to hear what he heard. Because Chris Watts told his dad that he had killed Shanan and in another truly disgusting part of this case. Chris Watts told his father Ronnie "I'm not going to protect her anymore. She hurt them. She smudged them or choked them and then I killed her. After this confession, Watts then told agents a similar story claiming that after he had told Shanan that he wanted to separate that she totally lost it and to punish him she had started to choke the girls to death. He said that as he saw Shanan choking little Cece, he saw evil. He went on to say quote "I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to fucking do. None of this made sense." But of course this turned out to be a lie too. And this just pisses me off so much because like he's now turning her into the monster in this story. I mean I think the whole like I didn't know what to do. I think that's probably the most true "Woofful thing!" there he says because I do believe he was just like "I didn't know what to do, he did it" or I don't know, maybe it's premeditated who knows. And on Thursday, August 16th, Shanann Watts' body was found in a shallow grave, just 18 inches deep, on the Anadako petroleum field in rural World County. Bella and Ceci were found inside oil tanks filled with crude oil, located near where their mother's body was found. The opening to the oil tanks was only about 18 inches wide. And Bella, the four-year-old, had scratches all over her sides from where her body had been pushed into the oil tank by her father. The autopsy report states that Shanann Watts was found in just a purple t-shirt and underwear. She had abrasions on her back and on the left side of her face, but she had no defensive wounds on her body and her injuries were consistent with manual strangulation. The lack of defensive wounds does make me wonder if she'd been drugged or something. And the injuries as well, as all of the planning were to dump the bodies really due point to the fact that Chris didn't kill Shanann in an uncontrolled rage as he had claimed, but deliberately, an in-cold blood. The autopsy reports on the girl showed that most likely Watts had smothered the girls. Bella had suffered from blunt force trauma to the jaw and had lacerations and contusions in her mouth. Her left shoulder was discolored in teeth impressions and superficial bite marks were found on the surface of Bella's tongue. Bella had fought for her life. Three-year-old Celeste had no visible external injuries or defensive wounds. So I wonder whether she was asleep when Watts attacked her. Chris Watts was arrested on suspicion of three first-degree murder charges and three charges of tampering with a deceased human body. On Tuesday, the 6th of November 2017, Chris Watts entered guilty pleas to all nine felonies related to the deaths of his pregnant wife and children. By pleading guilty, Watts was able to avoid the possibility of facing the death penalty for the murders. After an incredibly emotional trial on Monday, the 19th of November, Chris Watts was sentenced to three consecutive life sentences. Plus 84 years for killing his wife and children. He received the maximum penalty for each of the nine counts against him. So now we've been through the whole story. But still, what was Chris Watts' motive? Because why wouldn't he just leave? Why wouldn't he just disappear? I think to try and understand this, let's consider the psychology of the family and I later. There was a study that was conducted here in Britain examining the psychological profiles of this type of killer. Typically, they are men. Typically, they are in their thirties and generally speaking, they are not known to law enforcement or mental health services. They are seen as successful men with high profile jobs and perfect families. They are seen as good fathers and loving husbands. So what makes these so-called "ordinary men" murder their entire families? Of the four types of family annihilators identified, you have, firstly, the self-rightening righteous killer. This type of family annihilator holds the mother responsible for the breakdown of the family. Then you have the disappointed killer. These ones believe that their family has let them down. This is the type of killer we see in "so-called honor killings", where the children have supposedly embarrassed the family. Then you have the "anomic killers". These killers see their families as a symbol of their own economic success. So if they suffer some kind of economic failure, like a bankruptcy, the family no longer serves this function. This reminds me of cases like "Christ for Foster" here in the UK. And then finally you have the paranoid killers. These killers are often motivated by a desire to protect their family from a perceived threat, such as having children taken away by social services. Chris fits into a lot of these boxes. He even killed his family in August, which according to this study, is the month during which family annihilations are the most common. I actually read an article this morning about how, um, when the temperature goes up so does the crime rate. I think we could say that Chris is most likely fits into the self-righteous killer. I can kind of believe that he was just like she's making me do this because I don't want to be here anymore and that's her fault. Because he tries to fit into this perfect family man box. He kind of sees them as currency, I think. It's like, look what I've achieved. These are my perfect 2.5 children and here's my five bedroom house that I can't afford. Definitely. I do think there are elements of, it's like a mixture of the self-righteous and the enomic killer where it's like to be a man and to have a wife and to have these kids as it's an economic status isn't it to have this massive house and you're providing for all of them. But like I said, they were, they had declared bankruptcy, they were in huge amounts of debt. It's complicated because I don't necessarily think he perfectly fits into any of those categories as to his true motivations for why it seems like he did it. And though we could sort of nicely round this off by saying, well, he's a combination of a self-righteous and an enomic family annihilator. But what does that really mean in this context? Because I personally think the root of all of this, the real motive for these murders, was greed. Chris Watts, in my opinion, didn't want to be a dad. He didn't want to be burdened or pressured or have to deal with the financial responsibilities or the expectations that came with that particular type of life. I think Chris Watts felt like he was living a life that he didn't want to be living and it was killing him. I think he wanted out. But unlike with how other people might try to get out of a situation like this through divorce, his fucked up narcissistic mentality meant that the only way he thought he could get out of this, and I'm not making excuses for him, the way that he wanted to get out of this was by killing his family. I think he thought by taking their lives that somehow he could get his life back. And it's all greed because he wanted more, more than the life that he had. But he wasn't prepared to pay the price to get what he wanted. And by which I mean being honest and asking for a divorce and doing it the way that millions of other people do. Oh no, not for Chris. He wanted what he wanted, but he didn't want to pay for it. He wanted to dodge his responsibilities and reality. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too. And you read everywhere with this case. What made him snap? What made this ordinary guy snap? But I really think no one just snaps. To Chris and men like him, women and children, even their wives and their own children, I just objects that can be disposed of when they become a problem. And I think that if we were to dig into Chris Watts' childhood, I honestly think that we would find the story of a spoiled, entitled prick of a kid. And just based on the evidence that we have, I don't think we're wrong. His parents have defended him throughout all of this. His mum is like the lawyers coerced him into confessing. And she even went as far as to tell Chris when he confessed. Chris, you didn't do this. Don't confess. Confessing is literally all that saved his life. And he did it. So Chris' parents spoke during his sentencing and they said that they forgave him. And it's weird because, of course, people will be like, yes, they're his parents and they still love him and we can't judge them for this. But they were allowed to speak at sentencing to give a victim impact statement as paternal grandparents of the two murdered girls. But they'd barely spoke about them. The whole statement sounds like they aren't mourning the deaths of those innocent children and their mother at the hands of their son. But rather like their mourning their son for being put in jail for the rest of his life. And it just screams to me of a man who has probably never had to face the consequences of his actions. But this time, he will. Because Chris Watts does have a whole new life now. It's just one in which he'll spend the rest of his life behind bars. I was thinking about it. And I was like, how can we prove that she didn't do it, that he did catch her trying to kill the girls and he lost it and killed her? I really think the thing that shows that that wasn't the case is the premeditated texting and arranging to go to the oil field. For me, that is the thing that clinches it as a premeditated murder. Definitely. And I think, even if you didn't have that, if you were in the jury and you didn't have the premeditation of the text to the guy Cody Roberts about disposing of clearly about disposing of the body, even if you didn't have that, all of the texts that she learned sent, all of the conversations between the two of them, finding out about the affair. I don't think I would still have enough reasonable doubt to not believe that he had done it and that he was lying about this. And this is a family and I later, one, oh one excuse. Have you watched the movie on Netflix? True story. No. It's about that killer called Chris Longo. It's, literally, if you haven't watched it, go watch it, anyone listening. It's so similar to this. He kills his family, kills his wife, he kills his kids, and then he says that throughout the whole thing, he's like, I can't say who really did it. I can't say, I can't reveal that. It'll be even worse than me just going to jail for this. And then he's like, fine, I'll tell you, you've pushed me so far. She did it and I lost it and killed her. Fucking lying, he did it. It's just like this. I think even if there hadn't been that premeditation, I still wouldn't have believed that she had done it. But you're right, that is a big, big, big nail in the coffin for Chris. Rightly so. He's a piece of shit. I'm a bit hot off the press with this one, I think, with this is good. Yeah, I really, I wanted to cover this case. You know, we wanted to wait until the report was released so that we could have all of the documents to read. It's a really heartbreaking story and I don't know what else to say about it. It's fucking unbelievably tragic. But he's in the right place now. Terrifying. I didn't get around to, like, sort of looking into this enough detail, but so many love letters he's getting. Oh, weird. The fuck is wrong with these women? What is wrong with these women? You're sick. Stop it. He's fucking disgusting and they're sending him love letters. I don't know. What can you say? Yeah, we won't say anything else about it. Come and follow us on social media @redhanded, the pod on Twitter on Instagram. We've also got a Facebook group. And if you would like to support the show, you can do that at patreon.com/redhanded and here are some people who already have. We have linear side guard, Charlotte Coleman, Brooks Wondberg, C.C., Sarah Gallagher, Lucy Woodhouse, Justin Deieger, Erica Lucy, Michelle Hamilton, Louise, Cass, Elizabeth Mitchell, Amy Biscoe, Through Halgrim's dog. I've totally butchered that. Halgrim's daughter is Icelandic. Halgrim's daughter, Mart Opoldal Opdal. I'm absolutely wrong in this today. Mart Opdal, Michelle Lincoln, and Atasiot. Atasiot. - It was a really hard bunch. - That was a hard bunch. - I feel a bit tongue tied now. Thanks very much guys, like honestly, you're amazing. And yeah, we will see you next week. - Bye. - Bye. - Bye.