Episode 69: Coming Together

I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor. Hey, good morning. Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs his most. Yep, they sure are. We make it easy for him to save all his insurance needs. All he want plays, with coverage that fits his business and bottom line. I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right. We're with so far up here. Look at me. Take a deep breath. Ah, I'm good. So good. Get a commercial auto insurance quote today at Geico.com and see how much you could save. It feels good to Geico. Hello, welcome to War with the Maids with me, James. Me, Andy. What were the may? If you don't know what it does, read the label. It says for indoor and outdoor use only. That's an actual warning label I had on Christmas lights once. Well, don't be a. Don't be putting them up in doorways, I guess. Entry points. That actually feels quite apt for Christmas lights. Yeah. And also, I feel like if you want to do that, just say don't use this in a doorway. I think it's use them inside or outside. Don't have a combo. Don't have a bit inside and a bit outside. Then the warning label needs to be more clear. It hasn't helped and I'm fully willing to accept that on your behalf. But our warning label says, "Howly flammable do not give to children." Because this is a podcast full of high intensity conversation and the adult theme of playing a board game until you die. We're playing the campaign for North Africa. We have been for over a year now. And we will do forever more. Until one of us croaks it. That's the unfortunate reality. And boy, is it fun? It's much more fun than it used to be. Yes, it's. This one was a bit low energy, I think, but it's still better than. Still, but the looking back a year to the. I was trying to get the rules is still fairly fresh. I don't think. I think we'll have to forget that before we start having a bar of times of the game again. I'll happily take low energy over what we used to have. I had so much energy. If anything, I was a more. You were running too hot. I was a more energized man. I was full of fire and vigor. Nowadays. No more. I don't have that. The game actually, if anything, took that out of me. The game is stolen something from me and into my soul. We're giving an offering. I don't want it to have that. I wasn't offering it. It wasn't on the cards. I wanted to play the game and be done with it. I wanted to tackle it and win. You saying that actually feels a little bit like the game won? Oh, it has. Do I need to spin back around and become angry again? I mean, you can. It will matter. It looks like being angry at the sky. It's just a part of your life you can't control. But deeply affects your life. But the thing is, in this situation, the sky comes in a small cardboard box. Takes a 10 feet of room. And also has rules where you determine what the sky looks like once every couple of weeks. It's a sort of complex matter of sky. It's. I'd say it's beautiful if I wasn't angry. If I wasn't trapped in my neck. I've become angry again. Yeah, it's a lot like a desert sunset. It's incredibly beautiful if you're not standing in the desert. Don't make it art. Don't make it beautiful. It's clearly what you are trying to do. Yeah, no, but I turn my back on that idea halfway through. I decided quickly that I'm frustrated instead. Okay. The sky is a very apt place to start because that's where we both started and ended today. Yes, it was all sky. It was all. not quite blue sky. No. It was quite blue for my guys. Some people fighting in the shade, as it were. Yeah, because I had 26 bombers that rushed out to try and take on the seventh armoured. And 11 of them did not make it. No, 11 of them bit the dust, my. Oh, actually, I say that. Nine of them bit the dust. Two of them didn't make it to the bomb. They got back home, though. They got back to the airstrip. Fair enough, but they didn't help this. You didn't help the fact that they were trying to do a job. No, this worked out quite nicely for me. Yeah, I guess it would because you had the superior air force and I had dog shit bombers. C-309s, that carry four bombs a piece. They don't have great range. They have terrible maneuverability and subpar tucker. You know what this one told me about my air force. It was actually quite illuminating. Is I should be miss using those gladiator planes? In what sense? Because you haven't been shooting down the C-309s. Because I've been trying to use the. This time I sent 30 of them, like two and a half squads worth basically, to guard the fourth. And I sent my good planes to guard the seventh because I thought it's much more likely you'll go for the seventh than the fourth. With the gladiator's not there, it went much better. I think those odd now are going to be strafing planes, not air combat planes for me. I actually like it the other way around where I can shoot them down as we go. Yes, I know, which is why I've changed. Quite the contrarian we have in our midst. Yes. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that I don't want it. Well, it does mean I don't have to give you it. But we are friends. After coming around. Right. Oh, so we're not friends right now. We're friends. Because I'm in your house, so I can do, I guess, small acts of arson, small acts of theft. I mean, you could, but don't. Well, again, we'll go back to the. You might not want it, but I can still do it. I feel you should subduing that. I haven't started yet. Or if I have, I'm sorry that you caught me. I did. I'm sorry you caught me. Not that I did it. What I did do is not quite arson, but it's, I guess, a level up. I did drop some bombs because. It's a level up from us and yes. Because the 14 surviving bombers did still drop a hefty bomb load. Definitely not what I wanted. And I got an incredible roll of 64 out of 66 on the dice. Bearing in mind this D66 system means that a lot of numbers don't exist within the scale. Yes. You don't get any 59s. That's not a thing. Anything with a 7a or 9, it basically isn't. It doesn't exist. But I did get a 64, which is two off max, which would have been great if I had the bombs that I intended to have. If I had even more bombs, that would have been greater, but I guess we're just talking hypothetical. It's getting philosophical at that point. What I did manage to do is drop some bombs on your 7th Armoured Division and pin a whole infantry. You did? Got them pinned, got them locked down. Following that, I moved on to your trucks and I went to strafe. That didn't go as well, I'll admit. No strafeing on the trucks. Which good? Also part of the 7th Armoured that I was going for. Just leave my trucks alone. You retaliated with a fairly measured response of bombing. First of all, against the group of tanks that broke off from the trivially regiment, which is now entirely armour, that little group that I've still got along the northern coast. You drop some bombs on there and you got one group worth. But if it's armour, it needs to be two to take an armour. And since it's armour, you got Diddly Squad, you got Jack. I got nothing. I'm counting a tiny win on some sort of information as it were, but nothing directly effective. You got Jack, but I'm James, so nothing happened. You mean saving that one? No, that actually just came to me in the moment. It's again, we wax about what isn't art or beautiful. I'll leave that to the listeners. It's probably for the best. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you would like to email in about how lovely that made you feel inside, you're welcome to. Just make sure you find me personally on my own social media. Let me know in advance so I can stop Andy from deleting it from the inbox. Not going to work. Yeah, also don't dox me, I guess. Don't dox me. Don't want to be doxed. Yeah, don't know why you sort of invited that. Yeah, I live a cursed life. There is no winning. There is no positive. So drop some ineffective bombs on your armour guys. And I'm pleased about that. I'm less pleased about what followed because you dropped a much less measured response and much more hefty one. 270 bombs on the body of garrison. Now they moved a little bit further south after the last engagement that they had. I'd try to put them in a position that put you in an awkward one. That meant you had to cross through two zones of control to pass through a little tunnel and avenue. Of what? Channel. Oh, I think you said shangle. And I thought I learned a new word. I was excited. It's a third word for sort of a messy passage you have to get through. For a shangle? Yeah, I don't mind shangle actually. Oh, I had to get my driver's license from you. It was a real shangle. Oh, I like that. It's not. So quite hassle or fast. - No. - It's like you have to navigate through something. - Yeah, it's something more quick to navigate through. Yeah. - It is a shangle. - It adds a geographical element to it. - Yeah. - It's like a location. - Yeah. - I like that, because driving license works well. Note that one down. We'll create a board of new words. - You're actually noting that down. - I'm gonna open a tab. When we finish this podcast, I'll send a very angry, confusing letter to the dictionary with some words they need to add. - I like that you're angry. - That's in the spirit of what we do. - Shangle. - That's going in the dictionary. - Angry in the wrong places. That could be another name in the podcast. (laughing) Or Andy in the wrong places could be a spinoff where we send you off around the world. Do a sort of. - Oh, a call pelking to ask. - I was just thinking, "Eddie, you're abroad." Yeah. Andy in the wrong places. Watch the space coming to YouTube red this summer. - I'd love that. It's just get paid to travel. - Is YouTube red still a thing? - No. (laughing) - Or if it is, I feel sorry for you I was making stuff for it. - I know they've got now TV, but that's not YouTube. I know you've got Amazon Prime, but that's not YouTube. - No. - You've got Netflix, but that's not YouTube. - Don't have YouTube premium reasons. - Let alone YouTube red. - The only time I got YouTube premium was when we went on holiday to Budapest and I needed to download some episodes of. I downloaded Guy Monts, spelled Spelling Bee. - Yes. - I've got a few episodes of that on the plane. Fun, dive in actually, good segue. A lovely shout out from the guys at worst idea of all time. - Yes, they read your email. - Yes. - Found it funny. - In that episode, after the laughter too. They had a Johnny good time poking fun in our situation and enjoying what we're up to. And I feel like anyone is listening to us here. But if you wanna listen to guys, funnier than us do long drawn out things they don't have to, that is the podcast to go. - Yeah, that's sort of the best version of what we could be doing. - Yeah. (laughing) - That's what we could be, but we're picking to do this instead. It's not that we couldn't do that. - Oh yeah, definitely could it. - We could rise to the media or a comedic rights that they are, but we're busy. We're busy for a long time. - Yeah. - So that bombing run, wow, three infantry pinned. - Was left to one unpinned? - One unpinned of my infantry. - So you got one gun and one infantry and nine guns and that. - How's he gonna man all those guns? Thankfully they come man, don't worry folks. It's all right, they're protected. I would like to steal them. My guns, I know. This isn't new information, it's just troubling information. It's stuff you didn't need to say out loud. I've gauged that you're trying to take my stuff. - Well I think that bombing run went about as well. I could have rolled higher, but in terms of like doing what you had to, I think that bombing run helped a lot in terms of that above the escarpment area. - Yeah, I think that area has now become a little bit more uneasy for me because your movement's coming up. - Yes, this is why I was also very glad we got normal weather for this is. - We do. - We do sandstorm or rain scum, completely scum as this plan of mine. - Whatever your plan is, I don't mind that the weather is good. If it facilitates your plan fair enough, but it means that I'm not also getting absolutely bugged by the weather. I'd much rather you have a plan that goes off without a hitch and I also get a respond without a hitch. - Yeah, well, what I'm really interested here is does the double turn feel impactful, even in like what is for me probably a relatively bad game state at the minute? But does the double turn, I'm sort of figuring out, is that something in the repertoire that's gonna be used? Is it gonna be a consistent thing like if I have initiative for free off stages in a turn? Is this gonna be a common thing or is it gonna be rare? I'm interested in how this goes and then also you're gonna have to movements back to back moves slightly. Well, that's it, I guess you've got, first of all, that tradeoff you've mentioned of every time you do that, you then have to look at sacrificing a go and giving me a double turn, which probably isn't, don't imagine that ideal for you. And as well as that, what does it look like? Because for me, I found myself in a different head space looking at the board compared to last week. Because looking at the board today, knowing it's your turn again, I felt a lot more negative than I did last week. Oh, good. I was worried you were gonna say positive. No, this hasn't worked at all. Definitely not positive, because there's something about in the moment ending the movement phase and going, right, that's where everyone is. Let's go again. And then going again and realizing, oh, they're all where they were. You've moved, I've not. And then knowing that you're gonna do it again. Well, you've not escaped the shanko. I haven't, I'm not, I've not outshangled myself yet. Instead, I've ended up in the same position that I was, 'cause I can't move. And you're gonna go again. So whatever tactic I had, I'm sort of a turn lagging. I'm an, I'm an upstage behind. Yeah. Which I thought would be beneficial in some ways, but I don't know that I'll be able to capitalize on this. I think you might pull some stuff out the bag. I've not really planned for. As is always the case to be fair. You talk about not being in a great game state. I'm in a comfortable game state. I don't know that I'm in a better game state. I'm in one of the most comfortable I've been. I think I've got a really good defensive point. But looking at it today, is that, is that good? Is that a positive one or is it just better than it was? I'd say this, you're not achieving any map objectives from here, but you've got the one banked. It's a, it looks like a horrible position to be attacking. I'll say that like, I don't know if it depends what you're wanting. If you're wanting to hold that line, which I have to break through games statewide. It's par-wine feeling bad. You're golden. If you want to take City Barani Baku, it'll look very different. Well, yeah, if I want to take City Barani Baku, I, I'm in a really bad game state. I like to see myself as Netflix when they've recently released the Peaky Blinders movie. This is a situation where I can comfortably sit and take in the money, but I'm being critically panned. There's, there's positives and there's negatives. I've released what is objectively a bad piece of media. I say you're up to, you're at the end of season six at the minute. It's up to you to fuck it up by doing a move. That's a better analogy. We've both watched that film recently. And we don't have nice things to say about it. I've really wanted to. That would be great. With like, I'm going to give this some leeway. And it's recently biased as a thing, but it might be up there with the most disappointed I've ever been. If you go from high to low, it's definitely because on a, on a sort of level platform, it's a fine film, it's average. It, it, it doesn't make much sense without the context of the show, but it's just kind of average. I actually think it's a bad film by itself. Oh, really? I do. That, yeah, that's what I think it's not just a let down because of how good Piki Blinders is. I think it's a weak film. It's a, it's the El Camino of Piki Blinders, but it doesn't. Yeah, I really like El Camino. And before El Camino came out, I was massively against it. I was like, there's not for more. You're not going to gain anything. We did a little watch party. And I remember you being really apprehensive to even come and watch it. I was not, I was thinking I'm not going to watch this. Yeah, we lived together and you were sitting, you considering sitting and out while our friend came to watch it, but you weren't interested. So good. It's incredibly well. I was like, okay, this might work for Piki Blinders, but then basically the moral man is everything. I was afraid El Camino would be if it failed. Well, I'll give any spoilers, but if you, if you're a fan of the show, which, I mean, this film as well, this film is set in World War II. There's even a mention of the North African campaign, which both of us touched on a bit today. We like that. That's our jam. But unfortunately, that reference doesn't save it for me. It's still bad. It's bad film. But that's the situation I'm in right now. All of the power is in my hands to sit on something that's good or allow myself to take a risk that realistically can't pay off. I've got all the building blocks for a good steadfast hold of what I currently have, or I can reach for city Barani, the Netflix movie of this campaign in North Africa, practice run and absolutely ruin it. I'm not going to do that, I think. And I'm not, I'm not afraid to put my position out here in front of you. I think this is something that GHQ would be able to obtain through the enigma messages. I'm not going to go for city Barani. I'm going to hold you off for these last two turns. This is upstage three of turn four. We've got two full turns to go. A lot has changed in the course of two turns before. But this position is so vile. past that I hold and your supply line can't and I see that with confidence can't sustain the kind of fine you've had in the past that regularly. Yeah, the tempo is I'll say this, I think the tempo is not sustainable long term. It might be sustainable to the end. I think if you if you call ham, yes, because I'll say this, I think all my big divisions are probably good for water and fuel till the end of the game at this point. Oh, I completely believe that. I do not think water or fuel would be an issue for you. They're all good on stores for turn five. Stores for turn five again, I believe my interest is disrupting stores for turn six. It's ammo. But what I'm hoping is truck stage turn five, op stage one. That supply store run and then the remaining five op stages are essentially ammo shipping. Yes, which isn't sustainable main game. It's not, but might mean I could like really go at you for these remaining two. I have two separate plans to disrupt your ammo supply. That's the way I see it. It's a nice to have. It's not a very realistic goal. I don't think I can stop you storing your man up. If I can, it means you can't make offensive moves in the last turn of this op stage of this practice run. Which really fucks me. That means that you have to play the defensive, which I'm also playing. So turn six is a very boring few weeks of this podcast. If James's plan succeeds on my trucks, then six is going to be boring. It's usually me that discourages people to listen to this. So it's nice that you've taken that role. If that happens, it's going to be abysmal for both of us. It means we're just sat waiting out those last couple turns. Well, that lasts two or three op stages. If however, the more realistic situation is I can't stop that. I need to try and diminish your ammo supplies, much as I can. And I can do that two ways. One, disrupt your supply line. That's ideal. Yep. That is the golden plan. That is my primary objective. The second is sacrifice units the way I have been by holding the ground against repeated assault and hope that you overcommit over and over until you finally, yeah, you finally end up with no ammo and your trucks struggle to make it across those wastes with hopefully a bit of hot weather occasionally. And it means that you have so much breakdown that you don't end up having much of an ammo supply. Certainly not one to sustain you the way you've had. I will at the end of this turn have the most trucks I've had since the scenario started. But that just means when the percentage is kicking for breakdown, it's a bigger loss. Oh, yeah. So I'll take that. The law of averages is in my favour. Oh, definitely. But I'm going to work around that a bit. We're in an interesting point here where we're 2/3 and we've wrapped up that stage. We've got the final movement section coming up for turn four. How are you feeling? I know we've talked there about the positions that we're in. When it comes to end game state, when it comes to up stage three of turn six, what are you feeling? I have a plan with some leeway in it that I think will work. leeway is important because this game keeps on changing. It doesn't have to. Yes. I've stopped planning for certain days. I've started planning for like if it goes 40, 50% well rather than if it goes well. Good way to play it, which is probably going to help. But I do have a plan. I don't want to give too much away. But I think I've got some stuff to throw at you. And I guess I will give this way. I think I can get body. That's worrying because that's the opposite of what I thought this would be. I thought you were going to make a push as far as you could. But that body was sort of a foregone conclusion that it's in my hands. Being able to take body are means you've absolutely broken my defensive line. Yes. Being able to break that with your what four divisions? I've got four and seven for full strength. They're down south. Second New Zealand is under strength but probably on par with one of your divisions. The sixth Australian are firing along the North Coast Road. They're also probably two-ford strength but equal to yours. And then I've lost smattering like this turn. I'll be moving the poultry brigade up to miss mature on the train. Got another thing. And say four-ish divisions and then you can maybe round up to five of the other stuff. Okay. Yeah. They will be deployed. My divisions I know are from the combat we've had now. I know my divisions are weaker than yours. I think I can hold it. This is interesting. The fact that we have different perceptions on how this ends because I feel like a lot of time we're either on the side of we're both thinking less of ourselves or we both see the victor in a particular situation. Yeah. The fact that we now both feel uncomfortable I think is at first. So I don't know what that's going to pan out like. One of us is wrong. I think it's a good sign because it's one of us will be wrong yes but it's a comfort of the game thing I think. I don't even know that it's that because I'm not comfortable with the game. I know the rules. I would say I'm not comfortable. I'm more comfortable. I wouldn't say I've gone to just fully comfortable. No. What if you had? I'd be angry because you've been doing practice runs on your own. I've done this scenario like three times. Get a life. What's wrong with it? If you've done this three times I should be doing much better. You could do so much with your time. You're a smart guy Andy. Oh thanks man. Stop wasting your life. Oh how dare you. And I'm not just talking about that. Stop doing the podcast. You're better than this. What the fuck are you doing? You do as what you could be doing with the time that we played this game. What? Oh got anything. So much. We don't have time to rat them all off. Okay, boy let's shut this all down. I think we have to move away from that. Let's walk away from this. Let's walk away from the gameplay. We've covered that. We've covered what we've done. Trim them in the mailbag. Let's look at that sack. The mailbag is, well the email mailbag is dwindling a little bit. We're looking to backfill that. However we are now dipping back into the web form mailbag. We have a few different mailbags you see. And the one that we're looking at today is actually a series of messages from the mailbag. The ones that we've neglected for some time. And I'm very sorry about that because it comes from someone with a glorious name James. Yes. Or the moniker that he has taken on throughout these web forms. Better James. That I take some, I take some umbrage with. I appreciate the confidence. I, I, I gotta say I don't. Weird that. I quite like someone who's humble. Settle. The bravery in this instance is completely unwarranted. However, better James has sent a few through to us. So we have his saga to re-three. Yes. A few questions, some good points. So Andy, why not get into the first one? Hi from us. You get this for complaining in ep9 that no one's emailing you. Back, back tattoo ideas, the entire map of see, uh, compared for North Africa obviously. Pilot where? Enjoy the lesson. Hope you're lads keep it up. Cheers, better James. Uh, episode nine was, was definitely where we, that makes sense. We did bring this on. Yeah. We were, I think we've had a few say it. If you'd been begging an episode of nine. We begged for a while and then we, we got it in through. Yes. We got what we begged for. Uh, back tattoo ideas for the campaign for North Africa. Uh, yeah, because we, we'd mentioned that back then in terms of what kind of back tattoo ideas, you know, we could have. Yeah. What, what ideas we could have in general for any sort of paraphernalia to put in our bodies. Uh, what scares the hell out of me is the idea of all of those hexas being tattooed on our back. I guess, yeah, that would be painful. It would be painful, yeah. I think a large camel, perhaps. A camel would be. I'd take a camel, a caricatured camel. Oh, yeah. In terms of a pilot wear, um, good question. We lost the pilot episode, the original recording a little while ago, um, well before we can actually send it to anyone when we promise to. So that's not great. So that has been lost to the void, uh, an offering to the gods of podcasting. It's got to be somewhere. The original message. of deserts of our minds came from that recording. I want to find it. I have to have it somewhere. But unfortunately we'll just have to move on to the next question for now. The next email, which is again, "Better James". Hi, Andy and James. "Better James again". "Living the podcast". As I've now worked my way to episode 34, that's some progress because I don't think it was a very long span of time between the two. Another question regarding the game. Could the listeners be assigned to one of the divisions on the board? As an Australian, I'd like to be part of the ninth division. Love the history segments, looking forward to the wrap-up of the 28th Maori battalion. Thanks, better James. Well, the wrap-up of the 28th Maori battalion was one of my favorite history segment pieces. Absolutely loved what you did with that, Andy. Loved learning about them, loved their story, hated how some of it ended up. Oh, yeah. Because a lot of it was grim towards the end, just unpleasant behaviors imparted on them, but a crazy good story. Amazing group of people as well. One of the best things we've covered in my opinion as well. Fixed the Annettes, just get out of my eyes. It was a good diary entry. Yeah. Love those guys. 40-second street battle. Everything about them, just terrifying group of folk. Could listeners be assigned to one of the divisions on the board? Well, come the main game. We are looking at some interactive aspects of this project. So we're going to be expanding things a lot when it comes to the main game, the way that we broadcast the spreadsheets, the bootkeeping, some side projects we've got going on. A lot of things that all tie into this. We've invested in some camera equipment. Yeah, we've had quality pictures for everything involved, yeah. We've got a lot of stuff in the work. So this year is going to be a big one for extra projects because we'll finish the practice scenario this year. We'll get into the main game this year. And we've got some of the peripheral stuff. This idea of listeners being assigned to units is part and parcel of one of those things. So keep an eye out on that, better James. And everyone else. The saga continues. Better James again. Each time I use this name, I like it less. Maybe I'll stop when the campaigns finish. Oh, no, that's so long. That's far too long. I don't like it. Maybe I'll hang on to it for free decades. Better James. Cash at me. Let me know how much to buy this moniker from me. Continuing to love the history segments, I do hope to hear about the wraps of to broken a future segment. Definitely will have been mentioned a few times. They will be getting their own series at some point. I'm excited for that. Probably the main game because it'll involve some Nazis. So oh, that'll be a while off. Yes. But if you could talk to Richard Bigg and ask him anything about the game, why would it be the camels? Looking forward to more. Keep up the effort, Lads. I mean, he's right. It's got to be the camels because we've become almost a totem of our lack of understanding about the game. Yeah, they do personify the confusion that we have of the game. They are the one of the undefeated mysteries of the camel and the gaps because it's the fact that it's not misunderstanding of the game. It's that there is actually new explanation. And at this point, I can say that with complete confidence that the game does not explain what happens with camels. So at this stage, absolutely, that is the thing I would ask Richard Bigg, I'd thank him. Oh, yeah. I'd say this is a project we can't do without this game. And it's given us, I would say, between these hundreds of hours we played, it's given us literally minute of fun. So I'd thank him for that. It's given us time to kill. And that's, I think he made this game for people to bite off more than they can chew. And that's what we've done. We're choking on it right now. I would say if it weren't for camels since that's kind of the obvious one, I'd maybe ask if the because in the some of the articles we've read, some of the information that we found out outside of this, he had plans to introduce a bakery system, like an economic factor outside of Africa that would impact shipments. Yeah, he mentioned, I think he actually mentioned it in the book that they were looking at like German bakery production levels. And yeah, I guess I'd similar question would be like, okay, so if time and money hadn't been an issue, what would that of? Where would this have ended? That's it. Yes, that's it. Where how far would you have went? Yes. If you had, I guess not unlimited time and money, because I think one thing I've learned of Richard Burgers, if he had unlimited time and money, this does not end. But if you had another couple of years, if you had unlimited budget within those couple of years, what else becomes part of the game? Yeah, and there's also the whole thing because, yeah, I guess this is some weird you're talking to him, but also like computers, like how much worse would this have been if he'd able to use a computer while he was both making it and managing it? Well, that goes back to a point I think of a lot about this, which is if you introduce computing into this, you actually take away a lot of what this is, because we are automating some of the spreadsheets, but we're having to, we're having to actively do that. We're having to take affirmative action to automate stuff that is so granular, yeah, but yeah, we have spoke about this a bit before where it is, this was a full game. It would be on the like simple end of like save or the paradox like harvien crusader kings, it would be on very much the light end of it. Yeah, because when you think about like I think of Stilaris is the one I go to because I played a feather of Stilaris a few years ago, I was in a bit of a phase and that is more complicated than I think spreadsheets of this game are when it comes to boiling them down. Yeah, if you had to manage it, you would never get able to turn Stilaris like, yeah, give it too much stuff. If you transplant it Stilaris to this format, it becomes completely very different way. Yeah, so computers would be an interesting factor, but I think if anything, we would just encourage him to be more gung-hoo with how complicated it gets. I would have loved to see this. I mean, we would have been like never finished, you've not just potentially never finished our lifetime, but if he had done like, I'm going to expand the board now, we're doing the Mediterranean as well. It's not the campaign for North Africa, it's World War II Mediterranean and then he gets more time and now he's now it's done all of Russia as well. It just will do the game and every single factor you could think of. Yes, it accounts for civilian casualties through heart disease in every country as well as military factions. Yes, there's underlying medical condition attrition. Rulfer air pollution in London. I think it could go really bad. So in some ways the mystique of Richard Burke having passed, it's a damn shame. I'd love to ask him questions, but not being able to even dream of asking him questions means we have to figure this one out. I mean, it does give the game a thing of like, he has a thing someone's made. You can't ask them any questions. It just has to stand on its own. It's like, yeah, pre-int in that. Yeah, a lot of the fun comes from not knowing what to do. Yeah. Better James continues. As of yesterday, I've now completed episode 57 and I'm curious to find out if the Blackshirt attack on Alexandria has paid off. Spoiler alert, no. No, the Blackshirt attack didn't actually manifest. Yes, there was some reading of the air transport rules for soldiers. Yeah, the drop-off would have been grand and it would have been impactful and it never happened. Instead, we're stuck with the Saharan detachment surrender at Alexandria. You talked at length in episode 57 common ground about real life paid a win and who justifies the value of art and it reminded me of a tax dodge theory. Person makes $22 million in profit a year. So he commissions his artist friend to make a painting and he gets his art gallery friend to evaluate the painting as being worth $22 million. Person donuts are not the gallery, getting a $22 million write off. Yeah, that's horrible. That's my fear. I say fear. I know it's happening. That is our lot of modern hour works. Yeah, I don't like that tax dodge theory because I know it happens. Yeah, that's not even a theory. You're just talking about an example of something that may well have happened. The values are different. The event definitely happens. There's a fear of a theory on that that they'll get up a coming art. It's like buy a bunch of that stuff and then get them addicted to drugs so they're like, are no longer productive or like die. Also it means to increase the value. It's a scarcity thing. Yeah, which again, that's another step on the are conspiracy from the very real money laundering thing, but also believeable. Yeah, I don't think that's too far from reality. That happened at least once in history. I can say that with complete confidence. Oh yeah. But away from the esoteric horrors of life, regarding the game, it'd be cool to do a Siv 5 style end of game time lapse of the board over the course of 111 turns, showing rough territory lines moving back and forth with each conflict. Ford it would be cool to implement something like that. Sounds like with the detailed bookkeeping you guys are doing, it could be fed into a model. Loving the chats, excited and sad to catch up, as I'll no longer be able to binge back to back episodes, better James. That is the plan. At the end of it, and also gives us time to develop it, but the bookkeeping will be detailed enough that yeah, we can see it under a model and at the end we'll have a time lapse where you can also go and click on anything and see how that's. I would love to do that at the very end of sort of. Well, you have the know how. The thing is you are a tech where your job is in software, you do actually develop things with I think probably a modicum of more detailed than what we're doing. It's more case of work with the businesses. This is all completely in-house. You're the only one doing it. It's something that hasn't been done before. You don't have anything to come and pull information. No, I can't just copy someone's GitHub projects and change some name spaces. You've got a project that no one's done before. So we do have that as an idea, but it'll be get the bookkeeping right by the time the game starts, and then any ad- if the bookkeeping is good enough, any of these very ambitious things we've think about we can do because we'll have the information. So it's the priority is getting it, so we have all of that. And worth mentioning again, just a quick refresh for anyone who's interested in the physical bookkeeping and the spreadsheets, all of that detail. When it comes to the full game, we will be making sure when we start the full game, we can show that through and through, that we can show it. It'll be with a bit of a lag just so we have time to adjust stuff throughout the week for our homework bits and make sure everything's up to date, but we will be making it visible. Pretty like a tin lag maybe, but the idea is fairly close to real time-ish. And also that's to keep us honest as well, because I'm sure some of you guys will crack them open and be like, you messed up the, you've oversupplied this unit or you didn't do the evaporation right here, so- -Yes, two faucets of this- -Accountability, yeah. -Accountability and transparency, because it's one thing for us to play this whole game. It's another for people to be able to see that we've played this full game. We can talk about this until the cows come home. -Yes, I can tell you on my life, on the life of my ancestors and loved ones, that this is what I spend my week doing. Once a week I do this, and I love it and I hate it, but I'm doing it, and we want to be able to show that to everyone. We want to show what it entails, because there's parts of it where you look at it and go, this isn't actually that complicated. It's not complicated, it just goes on and on and on and on. -It's a long, yes. It just really takes a long time. It's vast. We want to be able to put that out there. The detailed bookkeeping will be a massive part of the full game, and by the end of it we hope to have something visual to show from it. Based on some of the stuff we've already had sent over to us, some of you guys are incredibly invested in either this or board games in general or history, and some of the stuff you've put out in terms of research or generosity with your time committed to contributing to this. I've got no doubt some of you guys might put something together, but we also are planning on doing that. Don't feel the need to, we will be doing this, we'll commit to it. -But if you do, much appreciated, love to see it, because they know it is something cool. James goes on to his last email, but he came through fairly recently. Found myself googling the campaign for North Africa to see if anyone had played it and came across your Reddit post. Oh, this is a sort of summary, but he's got some questions in here. The hunt done through his journey. Across your Reddit post, which meant it led me to the podcast, started listening around episode 60, and like many, I was inspired to start sending in correspondence at episode 14 and made a habit of sending a never web form each week until I caught up a couple of weeks ago. They were fairly short form with maybe a single common up question regarding the game, most of which I've forgotten. I've been making notes on this email to remind myself, so here are some in no particular order. You wonder why so many listeners, and at least for me, you wondered why you had so many listeners, and at least for me, I like, and James is speaking style to Ben Yatsi-Krosshaw of Zero Punctuation fame in that fast dry cynical brick way. Love it. That's a very good compliment because that's a great series. I'm not cynical or dry. Okay. I guess it's not a great compliment. Move on. Sorry, I was being cynical and dry. Okay. From time. Read the room. No. One of your catchphrases from the early episodes, which is fallen to the wayside was if I was an expert at insert subject, I wouldn't be playing this board game. It became a quick fire at all if you felt you weren't well-versed enough on a subject matter. We do use that on the podcast. We do also use that on our day-to-day sort of out of the game lights quite often. That's funded to fall in into our group lexicon. Yeah. When we're doing D&D or I do this. What you've got to bear in mind is outside of this podcast, I talk about this podcast to people in my personal life as much as I can because it's something to talk about. I don't know how, I've got D&D, I've got other stuff I can talk about, but this is something I can talk about a great length that no one else understands. I can feel like a subject matter expert. Yeah, no one's going to correct you. I can talk about it, but I can spin it the other way where it's like, well, I don't need to worry about that. I'm playing this game for the rest of my life. I've spun it round. I've made a positive, I've become an optimist no longer a cynic except I hate the game because it will take up the rest of my life. But I do miss that. I miss the salad days. Yeah. I'm kind of glad because they weren't really salad days we were. We were young and experienced. We didn't know what was going on. That's salad days. Okay. Like other Australian listeners, I'm keen to hear about the rats of Tobruk and the history segment, specifically the night raids. Yes, they're on the list that you guys have sent in that I think at this point is going to be a bullet point list of every event and individual. Yeah. In this entire period, but that's awesome against me jumping off points. So keep firing them in. Yeah, they'll likely be when the Germans show up in the game. So I guess stick around for under the 15 years. Yes. And you'll get there. You'll get there. We will. So some questions regarding the game. If you had five james and five Andes to play the game, still with one commander on each side, which do you think would be hard to manage and why is it the James side? What's that supposed to mean? The sort of a stew. Incredible. Wow, he snipe that one. Yeah, I guess if there were five of me, I'm fucking nightmare. I think if I mean, I'm being completely counted, I'd rather be on a team of four Andes and just me than a team of four more than me. Whether I'm commander or not, because I know my temperament towards frustrating situations. And if I'm getting pushback about supply distribution or wanting to try and push forward an air attack to defend my land troops, I'd become bitter and resentful immediately. You'd commit cloness either at some point. If you heard of frugging, well, just oh, when you like kill your commanding officer, yeah, you think you would frug yourself. I think I would frug myself. So then we five mes and less and less of you over time. But we'd replace me with more more reasonable versions of me, I guess, because they know the last one got frugged. Oh, we've got an infinite pool in this situation. James is talking about magic. And I'm not talking in the third person. He I'm referring to the deal. I think my team wouldn't I don't think I don't think that'd be like a false multiply. I mean, five of me and one of me are the same functional effect. I think yeah, between the efficiency and the complexity of decision [BLANK_AUDIO] I think it balances out. - Yeah. It actually be a hindrance, 'cause there's no new, you get none of the benefits of having more people, which is like new viewpoints and like ways of looking at things. You just have five me. - You're quite organized though. Whereas I like to react in the moment. You're definitely organized than I. So I react in the moment. You have the benefit of foresight. So if five of me are reacting in the moment, at least you've got five of you have come to the table with a plan. Whereas I'm watching the table ready for you to play and take action. So it, I don't know, it does balance out to an extent. - Also, this isn't part of the question, but it paints a very funny picture in my head of, wonder you come around to play the game. You come in, you look through the hallway door into my bedroom. My bed's gone. It's two bunk beds and a single bed. (laughing) And I'm doing a dorm with myself. - She got to live with them as well. - Are you soon so? - He didn't say that. I've added that, dude. - You're just adding fan fiction to the wall with a mate. - 'Cause otherwise there's four of you running around where you're like, boy, I hope they show up once a week and don't incriminate me in anything. - Yeah, but I mean, they wouldn't. They definitely would if they fought a different vision of you could take the fall. - Wow, you caught me red handed. - Yeah, that's, you fuck yourself. (laughing) - Wow, you, God, you know me well. (laughing) But James continues, the better James, the email James. - Yes. - Now what you all are doing, the transition from binge to weekly listening was rough as expected. Stay discrete, monists and entrapid. James. - Well, it's quite the saga, James. And thank you for sending a bunch of web forms 'cause that web form section, it gets neglected from time to time. We don't check in on it that much, but it goes to show that there are real gems in there. - It's been fun going for your journey. - It has, it's a little journal of adventure. Seeing you go through the episodes, you'll have noticed, James, that we've amalgamated some of your emails 'cause you've managed to perfectly capture the essence of some of your previous messages into the last one. So we didn't, we didn't double up, but we really love that. Some great questions, some very unfortunately, introspective points I'm gonna have to wrestle with for a little while now. - A bit of clone paranoia. - Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to sleep with that tonight. However, anyone else who wants to get in touch with us, be it through the web form, the Instagram or the email. We promised in episode nine, we'll get round to it all, and we will, we're churning our way through. The email is info at warwithamate.co.uk. The website is warwithamate.co.uk, and the Instagram is just warwithamate. And we'll answer everything, we'll get round to it all, related to the game or no. And as well as that, some of you may already know, but we have our first live show ever after the UK Games Expo this year. May 30th on the Saturday, more details to follow, but if you happen to be along those parts of the world, by all means pop along. That's where we'll be. - And croppers and email, we'll, I don't know how many people are there, but we'll probably do the show and then maybe a, and we'll meet up or something. - We'll be, so. - We'll organize something there. So if anyone's around the UK Games Expo or just Birmingham in general, I guess, if you're not popping along the Expo, let us know, we'll be there that weekend. We'll put something together, we'll all have a big old chinwag about the game. It'll be a, it'll be a grand all time. - Well, I'm a confusing conversation to anyone around us, that we're incredibly into. - And you'll realize how unstable we are when we talk about this game. It's not actually fun. We just have a microphone and we can edit what we say. - You have to see the wilds of our eyes. - And boy, are they wild? I like grab a stranger and talk about fuel consumption. - You don't understand. - They don't understand Andy. The only way we've got a possible chance of understanding is to learn from the past. So I implore you, tell me about the past. - And I will. (upbeat music) - The men of the long-range desert patrols were quite a sight on their return, a Cairo from a moose trip to the. - The contrast between the east and west of the Nile is very mild in the east. - At this point, I begin with a little thought to my past, but it should be interesting boats in the sea. What put in my head in the position of a Kansas in rise when a ship in Tallarabitch is far the point of sinking because of errors of present life. - We are absolutely not qualified to share views on history. - Where and when in history are we? And why is it whimsical, whaxical and happier than the Italian, Ethiopian conflict? - 'Cause we're continual with that king. - We are, we're victor among you all of the three. - We're way in the past. - Yeah. - Well, building up steam back towards the events, but covering this guy. - So you remember in B2-1? - I do. - His big mustache, Dad. - Yes, I remember him very clearly because I've looked at pictures of that mustache and wow, it's big. - Yeah. - So here's the quote he gave his son about rulership to start things off. I'm sure it's inspirational. - Remember to be king, all you need to know is how to sign your name, read the newspaper and barn a horse. - That's terrible advice. (laughing) That's terrible advice from anyone. A father, that's abysmal. It's horrible advice from a father. It's also the worst. It's not good advice for a ruler. - No, it doesn't help anything. - No. - That's not at all constructive. - No. But yes, he ascended to the Italian throne of the 29th of May at the age of 30. His big mustache, Dad, was dead at the hands of an anarchist called Chetino Breschi. But after his father's death, he immediately went to work calling the Prime Minister Giuseppe Serracco or Joseph Serracco for a meeting, two days after his father's death. - Right. - The photo he straight into it. - Right into it. The Prime Minister is leaving the King's funeral chapel when Victor summons him to his study. And the Prime Minister comes in and tries to give the general condolences, but the King's right to business. He's looking over this big pile of paperwork on his desk and they'd decrease the King hadn't had a chance to sign yet. And he points us pile out to the Prime Minister of Decrees that the new King does not think are in keeping with the Constitution. So he's not going to sign them immediately. The Prime Minister tries to explain that it wasn't the King's job to make that decision and that he should just sign them like his father had to which Victor retorts, yes, but from now on, the King will only sign his own mistakes and not those of others. - This is an interesting direction. - It is. - This is not the Italy that I've known from the other history segments. - No, this seems a bit more of a level headed and more of an investigative Italy. - Yeah, he's a, this guy's a really interesting guy considering his place in history. But so yeah, the Prime Minister immediately gets upset at the notion of this and office's resignation. - That's a fucking bull move to immediately quit. - Yeah, the King just ignores that. He just continues talking and just doesn't, doesn't even acknowledge it. And goes on to explain his will view and explain that you would be reading all the Decrees before signing them. I do not be able to claim to solve the present difficulties by my efforts alone, but I am convinced that these difficulties have a single cause in Italy, few people perform their jobs precisely. There is too much laxity and laxity. Everyone without exception must strictly observe the obligations. I will set an example by fulfilling all my duties. The ministers will help me, but not by lowering anyone into vain illusions, not promising what they are certain, not promising what they are certain they can keep. So he's got this like, I'm gonna do my job right? - Yeah, which compared to his parents and a lot of European ability is quite a refreshing thing to see. - Yeah, it's quite unusual because it seems to be very much a case of he's not going to go along with the flow of things. However, he's been brought up in an environment. I mean, the quote at the start says it all. - Yeah, that's what he's an interesting, like he's not quite a product of his environment fully, I don't think. - He's booking the trend. - Yeah, but unfortunately history dictates that he didn't actually book the trend enough. Things changed again. He couldn't fully change the environment. - No. - But I'm excited to see where this goes. - Because domestically, he's quite liberal for a king with a focus on social peace and education for all citizens. He helps pass bills for legal protections immigrant. protections for women and minors and work, various workers' rights, including weekly rests, that's Sunday, like he adds the idea of a day off of work per week. - Which is better than Henry Ford? - Yeah, and also creates the National Maternity Fund. - Wow, okay, and this is in the first decade of the 1900s, so like 1901 to 1910. - So, 1920 is sort of the range he's passing these laws in. - Maternity Fund back then, I wonder what that would consist of then, because I don't imagine the number of women at work are massive. - No. - So, but he is helping their rights and the rights of children. It's quite an interesting goal he has here. - And this is before I know the rest, but I'm going to say this guy seems to be moving in the right direction. I don't know what horrible things he might do, but seems to be good progress. - Yeah, he actually, his goal is, and this is another quote, "To achieve a higher intellectual moral and economic condition of the popular classes, and he actually gets called by some of his contemporaries, the socialist king." - Wow, which is an oxymoron in some ways, but does give you a sense of his intentions in general, yeah. And this is, I think this is also an important time we'll look at in terms of, "Royalty is falling throughout like the previous century. The Russian Revolution is about to happen." - Yes, I think it's, is it 1918? - No, it's before World War. - Regardless. - I think 12th? - Yeah, I think 12th. - Yeah, that sounds about right. The, the stars are about to get it in the neck. The French royal family got it in the French Revolution. This sort of thing at the time, Royal, you know, like if we don't manage this properly, there's a rebel saying. - Where do I go in Gillotine or, or worse? - In the Gillotine in Europe, or around these times, they love a Gillotine. - It's a, it's a bizarre, the guy Gillotine who it's named after has an incredible life, by the way, not like good, like interesting, not. - Is there a connection between Gillotine and the Gillette razor brand? - I don't actually know, but it doesn't feel just popping into my head then. I couldn't help but think. - Gillette. - Gillotine. - Yeah, I do wonder if there's like a root word for like razor. - Maybe, yeah. - Yeah. - Did he come up with the idea of a razor, maybe? Is, is the razor named after him? - I think he made it big and dropped it. - Is razor a brand and Gillette is the thing? - It's a spun and uno-reversed. - Yeah. - An important thing to mention about his powers, because they're mainly military and foreign affairs, despite it's like having this local influence. But one of his powers, they will become very importantly, Iran. Is he can appoint a prime minister, even against parliamentary vote? - Wow. - So they're in a constitutional monarchy, kind of like Britain now, but with more power to the monarchy, in the monarchy, so it's not fully, they're not fully symbolic. - Yeah, because in the UK they just get royal assent when it comes to passing of bills and that sort of thing. - And there's been cases in British things of like them having influence on certain policies and like, in particular apparently they have quite a lot of influence on tax policies that would affect them even though they're not meant to have any. - Yeah, because they're not. - I don't know what like, yeah, what degree it shifted over the years. But in essence you meant to just have royal assent over bills in the UK, but yeah, I guess maybe that's a different structure in the past. - Yeah. And this is an interesting, this is, we're jumping around a bit in this section just to give you a vibe of the guy, but nothing but after 1920. On the 14th of March 1912, a Roman bricklayer Antonio Dalber, who's an anarchist, shoots at him twice, but misses. A few hours late, a free socialist leaders from the Italian Socialist Party, he's basically show up at his palace and go, essentially congratulations for not dying. - Okay. - This causes quite an issue. It gives the PSI or the Italian Socialist Party a pretext to kick these free men out. Fully backing this movement to expel them was the die hard socialist, Benito Mussolini, who said that socialists that talked to the king were part of the cleric nationalist monarchist flock. And another quote he said was, "Ever with the palace or with the socialists." And that name, Mussolini. - That name comes up a bit. I know this guy. Yeah. He's bad news. - And we've sort of been dancing around him to lay the characters. - So he, but he does start as a socialist? - Yeah. Which, from what I understand, quite a few fascists do. - Yeah. - Historically, there's been a lot of socialists turned fascist. - Yeah. - Which is a, for me, a weird roadmap. I can kind of understand it on a certain level where it's like, you're looking around and you're like, I think it's a problem now as well where you're looking around and you're like, I know things aren't working, but I don't know what the answer is. - It just feels like it. - And the like, bounce between, like, it's kind of like, I heard a thing about like, a weird number of people who would have voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016. And they're voting for Trump when he didn't win the primary. Because they're an anti-establishment vote. - Yeah. Well, that's it. It's that jump from one extreme vertical to another. - Yeah. I know someone wrong in this like middle section or like in the mainstream establishment. - Yeah. I want to get outside of the usual verticals. I want to go into a different one. - Yeah. - And if the left vertical didn't work, I'll try the right vertical. - Yeah. - And yeah, just kind of jumping to an alternative. It's an alternative approach of politics. - Which is, I'm going to get into it in the series about him. But it's just an interesting thing of like, if history had gone slightly differently, Mussolini could have become the socialist communists as it were dictator of Italy in the early 1920s. Like, there's a version of history that's not massively distinguished from our own. As far as I can tell, where Mussolini is a socialist dictator in Italy leading in World War II. Because he just wanted power. Yeah. And he ended up constructing fascism because socialism would have done it for him. But if he'd been more effective, you might have got a socialist Mussolini. - Yeah. That's an interesting thought of what does that change? What methodologies are instead just adapted under the umbrella of socialism? - Yeah. - Instead, I mean, you have, of course, the National Socialist Party. - Yeah. Which are socialist. - An notorious one. Which have that bracket. But what would that look like? How many tactics are employed that are the same? Or is the following different enough that it changes the course of history where? - Well, if they had been socialists, they would never have allied with the Nazis because they're even before like, or equal to Jews, they hated socialists and communists. - Yeah. - So you don't get an Italian German block in World War II? Well, I guess the socialism become defined so differently that it no longer-- - Because Mussolini in a lot of ways-- - Defined fascisms. So what do you have had a defining effect on? - On socialism in the way it's taken in Europe around that period. Does he then just absorb it? And when the Nazis do rise to that scale of power, is it just absorbed in that bubble? Does it just become accepted that this is actually just the function of a socialist party? There is not that hatred anymore. I mean, it would still be hated elsewhere probably because the doctrines don't fit. But would it have had that much of an impact, I guess? - Yeah. - We'll never know. - It's an interest in modernization. - The guy became fascist. - Yeah. - The guy pioneered. - I'm fascist. - He invented it. (laughs) - And the King's also got a really interesting thing here that I'm not going to go into too much, but this feels unique to Italian politics, which is a semi-domestic, semi-foreign affair, which is handling the vacuum. Oh, okay. Because it's a very complicated situation, but basically the pope used to own all of Rome. And at some point in the like eight, eight hundredth of the early, the Italians basically came in and conquered Rome for the kingdom of Italy, but left the popes in the Vatican. And it wouldn't be until like 1929 that the Vatican was like recognized by a piece of legislation muslimly passed in the King's signed weirdly. So throughout his entire thing, he's. personally not very religious. His mother is extremely religious. His father was not religious in private, but publicly thought going to church was good, so wanted to like demo it to his people. Oh, okay. So he has this constant throughout his entire reign, like friction and pressure. With the vacuum, where the vacuum are like, you need to make us a fully autonomous country, we want Rome back. He's like, that's obviously fucking nuts. We're not gonna give you Rome. And then there's that like, and he's like, the current legislation we have is fine. You guys have the vacuum. It's not technically a country, but you have it. I don't want to deal with this that much. Yeah, but that seems like he's absorbed his father's views then if we're gonna analyze that, 'cause the idea of public facing importance of religion while not being particularly devout, and then passing legislation to recognize, so was it a recognized Vatican as a sovereignty in a sense? I think so. I'll definitely need to do more. This will be something we probably cover, 'cause it's, but I mean, it was Mussolini pushed for it, and he signed it on behalf. After he saw it became a bit of a puppet. Yeah. But before that, he was just all like, you guys are fine. Stop complaining. I had in my head that the Vatican is a sort of separate sovereignty was way earlier than this. Same before I did any of this research, and like, I've still not gone into it enough to, but it is interesting, it's fairly new. Like the Vatican's been there for like 2000 years, but the Vatican as a country. I've been there and I didn't know this. Yeah, very recent. So then we'll jump over to some foreign policy stuff here. So Italy is technically part of something called the Triple Alliance, which is between Germany, Germany, Austro-Hungary at Austro-Hungary, and Italy. But despite this, Victor wants to make new alliances and friends for Italy, and not just be locked into this, which leads to the two most important sort of allies that you've made that will also set up what's coming next. You pursue better relations with France in a process that had started by his father a few years before he takes the throne. And as part of these agreements, Italy and France, France recognized Italy's interests in Triple Italian here and Serenica, which would eventually form Libya. Two years later, they come to an agreement that if the great powers went to war, these two nations would remain neutral. This is before World War I. This is a pretty crucial thing that will affect Italy's fate in the Great War. Yeah, because they're meant to be allies with Germany and Austria. They don't really like them. The Italy Austria, Austria, Germany situation is very complex. Fortunately, we will cover it later. And Aro, one of our listeners, has sent in a good chunk on that, which we've formed that episode. So also Aro, I am using it. I just haven't got to it. Yes, we all working through the mail. And very much appreciate you sending me that. If you send in depth stuff, we will use it, but we have to disseminate it and it's crazy good stuff. So it'll work into a history segment. And then on the Russian front, which is the other ally, his marriage to Eleanor, creating a lot of good willers, and Montenegro was a long time ally of Russia at the time. In 1909, the Russian Empire and the Kingdom of Italy make the Racheon, and the Rachon OG agreement in secret. This is, they essentially make a deal here that they're both going to work to maintain the status quo in the Balkans. And what that means for both of them is limiting Austria, basically. Right. The secret agreement against one of their allies. Oh, wow, that's not like Italy at all. No. But this also means Russia will recognize their interest in Triplotania and Serenica. Yeah, yeah. So we've got two foundational sort of political justifications for the Kingdom of Italy ruled by Victor or Manuel of the third to set his eyes across the Mediterranean to what Mussolini would later call the "Four Shore". And they set their sights on lands owned by the powerful but declining Ottoman Empire. And they'd tangle with them when they went into Libya. But we'll get to that. Well, the Ottoman Empire, as we all know, exists now in this thriving-- Yes. I was going to do an Ottoman Empire episode, but then I'd completely underestimate how-- like they were from the 1422 to 1914, like World War I. Like there was 700-- Yeah. --not 500-year empire that I knew almost nothing about other than that sort of like the east bit of Europe during the World War I bit. I tried looking into it like a year or two ago. To be-- no, I think it was before we even played the game. Yeah. I started looking into the Ottoman Empire. I can't remember what got me under it. And I started, and I was just confused. I didn't have enough historical context. And it's just like layer on layer of previous foundation. Yeah. And I just couldn't understand the relations between the countries involved and the situation that it then led into that became World War I. I just couldn't make sense of it. So I'm going to do an Ottoman Empire bit. I'd fucking love it, because I can digest the stuff you are telling me. But I could not understand the stuff I was reading. I think what I'll say is there'll be an Ottoman Empire episode maybe at some point. What's coming up will be in the Ottomans in Libya and Egypt sort of the Ottomans on the map we're playing on. I'll take over there. Yeah. I'll take a broader Ottoman. History is history. It's gone. It's passed. The only thing we can do is look forward. And to look forward, we first of all, have to counterinturatively look back. And now for something nicer, a little oasis in the war. It's time for some common ground. Try and move the common ground. I'm recording. Man. Yeah. Yes, because we're getting into common ground, where we sort of pitch each other something. We come at some agreement so we can be friends going away. And last week I'd suggest that the mint of useful objects, you seem to be sort of on board of it that you wanted to come back with a refinement. So this is a two-part common ground. This is part two of the same common ground. And you proposed yours with the idea last week that you have a mint of reusable items that everywhere across the world, there'd be these dispensaries where you could obtain disposable but short-use items. You'd mention lighters. Pens, lighters. I'd put hair bands in there. I was thinking about it. Paperclip. Yeah. Yeah, sort of stationary or average household use. Just useful things that are good to be in circulation. And I took this away with me. And I thought, I like the concept, but there's so many moving parts to it. There's the cost. There's the function. And I went away and I thought of some of the things that are really beneficial to just have at hand on the go. Stuff that you don't often have. You've mentioned some of them, lighters, pens, things that if you're out and about, they're handy to have. I put together a few more items. I had a little look at some of the most regularly produced mass items that are short use. OK. Ooh. And some of them, some of them stood out. I've got four big picks when it comes to the modern day. OK. Are you adding these in or are you laying these out? No, suggesting. I guess I'm adding these in. And then I've also got a bit of a caveat for the common ground. OK. So some of them were-- and this is the first one is less common but very handy. Toothbrushes. Yes. When you're staying somewhere, when you're traveling, a toothbrush, very handy to have. Batteries. Yes. Batteries not just when you're out and about traveling, but when you're anywhere, a battery is handy to have. Tying into that, charges. Yes. So a phone charger, even a laptop charger, something that's a bit more bulky. but maybe it's tied to a bat repack that's temporarily reusable. Yes, something that doesn't have a permanent lifespan, something you can't recharge. And this one going more into the practicality of things, sanitary products. Yes. So this could range anything from toilet roll to women's sanitary pads, tampons, maybe even contraception, not in the way that you've got the sort of dispensers in bathrooms, I guess we're moving more into sexual products, we're moving into contraception, but everything that goes around the genitals. Okay. Because I think all those things are, they're important in different ways. Some of them are more voluntary than others. All of these things are things that stood out to me in my research, as things that are important. Okay. So I guess first of all, before I go into my caveat, what are your thoughts on those things and do you have any more items that you'd like to add? I like the charges. Charges are great. I think also because it'll force some standardization. Because we can't be providing a lightening and a USB-ABC. Yes, we need to go the central European route of USB-C, I think it is, is the general standardised charging port. Same with like laptop charges, I think. That's a nice side effect of this. We bucked all legislation into that. I agree with sanitary products, I think. Yeah. That's odd, I mean, that's essential. You can't go wrong with it. The sanitary thing, that came not through the direct research that I did because for some reason that didn't come up. I guess it's because what I was searching is short term use stuff. What I did find is that Aldi, the supermarket, some of the larger Aldis have bathrooms in them. Yeah. I've not been in many Aldis that have bathrooms. But there is one that I go to fairly regularly. My girlfriend had mentioned that the bathroom there has free sanitary products, which isn't commonplace in the UK as my understanding is. But that's maybe I'm a bad player. How do you. A crooked sore. Yeah, that's me thinking, that's great because you've got toilet roll. Why not have sanitary products for women and broadening that out. That's kind of the idea of this whole common ground. What other items can you have readily available that aren't just hygiene related but just convenience? Quick side note, just as we're talking about Aldi, I'm a huge fan that they let the people sit down. Yes, big fan of that. I don't need you to be standing out. That's weird. Give them a fucking seat. I've worked, I'll not dox the business but I've worked at a fairly popular DIY store when I was younger. And they were very, very against standing up. It started sitting down. Yeah. Yeah, it was very much a case of stand up. I don't get that. It was a case of there's a chair there. There was always a chair at the desk because that's. I know the kind of store you're talking about. Yeah, there's seats around. Yeah, like a big like home. And the thing is that that ration always well you'll need to get up and scan all the stuff. Well, yeah, you do need to scan all the stuff. At that point I'll stand up. Yeah. I'm not going to forget how to scan stuff because I've had a seat for a bit. No, I think it's a weird like boomer issue where like they get upset that someone's not having as bad a time as possible in a service job. Yeah, they talk about it was like engagement where it's like you need to like bring people in. And it's like the thing is if someone's got a flatbed trolley full of wood and copper pipe and anything else they're wheeling around this shop and they want to buy it, they're not going to be stood because I would have to instead of sit down not only stand in front of the till but walk like in front of the till along the like row of of tills. Yeah, I'd have to stand there and just wait for someone to approach and then be like oh, I'm available. If someone's got that stuff, if they've come into the shop, they're there to buy stuff. They're not going to be put off by the fact I'm not there to be back in the mover. Yes, it might be good customer service. Yes, it might be friendly. But by the same merit, if I'm sat down, I'm comfortable. I can beckon people over as they approach and go oh, yeah, I'm free. Go on over. It yes, it's a bit more casual. But I'm not beckon them from the chair and stand up and meet them halfway. Yeah, like like if they've got a bunch of bricks and paving slabs in their trolley and I move round with the extended cable to scan it with the scanagon, then I can go round and do that. I can give my greeting, how you're doing, what's going on, how's your day. You can do all of that. You can do a lot sitting down if they're just bringing a few potted plants in a bag of charcoal for the barbecue. You can do that there. But it is that weird warped reality of well, you need to have it this way. No, I don't. Yeah, that's just awful. But as for the items, I'm comfortable sitting down. Don't tell me that I can't. The chair's there for a reason. Why'd you buy the chair? Who's in trouble? That's the question. Like you have no chair all. While you're trying to trick the customers into thinking I'm allowed to sit down sometimes. But I'm not because I'm such a good worker. I'm so keen to serve you. 10 minute break is what I had. Yes, I was young. I had a four hour shift, but I had a 10 minute break. I had enough time to run out to the burger van, buy a discounted hot dog, run up to the break room, get a scolding hot coffee for 15 pence, that which to be fair, great value for money for the coffee. Then a scolding hot coffee, scoff down a hot dog and then go back down with a burning hot mouth and then stand there as if the chair is a worse option. Side common ground where fully unbored 100% both of us let people sit down and retail jobs. Just let them sit down. Fucking pop a squat. But for your objects, for objects, I've actually thought of a distribution mechanism as well because I think the charges is good. You mentioned toothbrushes. It's another one. I think you know when you go to a hotel and you get the Gideon's Bible. Yes, in the drawer. Yeah. If we can get there, it should be the Gideon's Bible and the wall with a mate survival park which is phone charger toothbrush, hairbands, lighter pen. Like this is actually now I'm thinking about it's the stuff that a good hotel makes sure it's in the room for you. Yes. But we just want to extend it out. I put elastic bands, hairbands, that kind of thing in there. Yeah, just everyday. Conveniences. The issue is Andy, something I was wrestling with is not just the cost because I think the cost thing can be worked into maybe my solution to this next part. Have you thought about what you're doing to the environment with this? Yes, but I actually, you're thinking about producing a lot of waste, right? Yes. You're killing the environment. I actually think you're doing less damage. I don't. I don't think it's enough waste that it knocks the current system out. Well, that's it. The current system's bad already. Yeah. And I have a lot of things that I'm not going to do. I'm not going to do that. And I have a solution. OK. The second part of this common ground is not just the items involved. It's the solution, which I like to call. And I take a little bit of inspiration from Roonscape here. The grand exchange. OK. OK. These facilities, these dispensaries, you can take any item you want. They'll have an array of items. Maybe they're structured like vending machines, where every institution, an office, a hotel, a restaurant, anywhere you are, they've got these machines that can dispense any of these items. Yeah. However, you don't buy them. You exchange for them. OK. So yeah, I like this. The exchange has to be an item that has enough recyclability that it buys points of what you're trying to get. So you might take a rubber in to get a pen. Or you might, OK, yeah, you could take anything. The thing is, it doesn't need to be something that's dispensed from this machine. You're not doing one for one trade. You could take four plastic pop bottles, soda bottles for the international audience. You could take those over and pop them into some basket that recognizes it. That sort of scans it and sees what it is. And then it'll go right. So, sort of how you trade in empty recyclable bottles in countries like German? Yes. Where you trade in an empty cook can. But instead of getting 15 pounds, you get a credit. Oh, credit. Or four credit. - Okay. - Whatever the conversion rate is. - Yes. - You find a way that you can trade in these items and you get a point system. - I like this and I'm gonna take a step further. You know how you're talking about you have these vending machines. - Yeah. I mean, you also have like, shh, like almost a shed fairly regularly, where it's like, you can have the things for like, an example I'm gonna think of 'cause of my fucking bathroom light. - Step ladder. - Lightbulb. - Lightbulb's fine. Step ladder is actually the thing because I look to get a step ladder high enough to like get to my ceiling to change that lightbulb 'cause it's like a high bathroom ceiling. - And it's in the middle of the room. You can't lean against it. - It's like 70 to 80 quid. - Whoa. That should be something that is in the the repertoire of this. - Yes. - Because you never-- - You don't need to step ladder daily, constantly or daily. I certainly don't wanna spend a bunch of money on it and I also don't wanna buy a really shit you wanna fall through it. - That's another nice, this might be an evolution of this one. - But you could spend your recycle credits to borrow one. - Yes. - It's a temporary one 'cause it's more expensive. This isn't a single-use item. This is a one-use item. You rent it for an hour, four, a pack of 10 pants. If you want a bigger, more valuable thing from the Shared Pool, you put in a bunch of the like, you put in a pack of five whiteers. - Oh, so you don't even necessarily put in just a recyclable object you're no longer using. You actually put in something to be used by someone. - Yeah, 'cause you know how we were talking about a pants are useful but like who's gonna get 'em? - Yeah, maybe it's a thing of like, I wanna use the set blotter, gonna put 10 pens in. And that also means I've got a credit for a lighter when I need one. - Yeah, but you don't then, I don't imagine 10 pens is enough to borrow the step blotters for an hour. They should be steep. Maybe, but it's more about making it useful and convenient, but I think that's part of it. Obscurity should be more costly. - A sanitary product is you need to go to the bathroom to clean yourself up for whatever the mess is. It's, you don't have got, your body's doing that. - Yeah. - You need to go for a poo, you're on your period. You need to clean yourself up. So that's like the bottom room. - Yeah. - And the higher room, the highest room is stuff like step blotter where it's like, I need to use this for an hour. - Gardening equipment. - I need to cut my lawn. - Yeah, let's have a shed on every street with the like, or not every street, but like every neighbor walking distance from anyone. - Yeah. - And yeah, you go, you take your pens, your lighters, just step blotter, light bulbs we mentioned are another one. But yeah, let's, and again, to make this somewhat controversial, because I've got to challenge you somewhere, blood. - What about, give blood to the machine. - I think that's actually, you say in that like it's gonna catch me out or be like a weird thing, but I actually, - Yeah, give blood, you give it a society, you get some, go with anything. You get some credits for this system. - Yeah, give blood. - Yeah. - How fucking I go with this. - Well, I don't know what you're thinking, but I think giving blood's a good thing. (laughing) Like, if we can encourage more people to give blood, I'm all up for that as well. - Oh, okay, so you're one of these vampires, are you? - Yeah, I wanna drink 50% of the blood, I wanna use them 50% to help people. - That's fine, that's actually a good vampire. - Yeah, that's probably a decent rate for a vampire. - That's like a nice thing to do. - Yeah. - So this way we're also turning to the vampires. - Oh yeah, which you gotta, you gotta look after those fellas. Well, we did the spooky episode a while ago, where we talked about what monsters you would put into the North African campaign. And I guess if you're gonna do vampires, that's how you appease them. - You know what, I actually like this one. - I think maybe, maybe this is the common ground where there is no debate. Maybe we've finally found the good idea. - I think I know what we've just done. - Yeah. - We've created an authoritarian overbearing system to stimulate community. - Oh, otherwise no. - Whereas you just go knock on your neighbor's door and you're like, hey, can I use your step ladder? And they're like, yeah, sure, gonna use your trowel in a week. - I think what we've done is we've created a commercial communism. And it works. - Yeah, why is this not in place? - Please let us know guys, but I think we've both, we've just tried to use a wrestling term. We've worked ourselves into a shoot. (laughing) Is this actually just right? But we found a common ground, that's just, it's not. - So it's like some wacky conspiracy or some insane supernatural plan. - It's a bunch of vending machines and like a shed within walking distance of most homes and then just people having a system. - Why doesn't this exist? Am I stupid or have I figured it out? I feel like this is like, yeah. (laughing) This is like why doesn't this exist and this is like someone's gonna be like, you've just explained why capitalism or something like it. If I don't know what it is, I feel like, you know when you've like come up with something and you've essentially invented something that already exists? - I feel like that, but also I feel like there's a flaw when I'm deeply missing. Maybe, I guess, so yeah, if anyone has a counter pointer this common ground for the mint of common things. - For the mint of common things. Put it into the mint of common things, which is I guess the shed common ground universe. Submit it to the mint of common things because I think we've just got it. - I like this one a lot. I don't disagree with you at all here Andy. - Sweet, 'cause I'm for when you were coming up with something but we just refined it. We probably can't do any more two partners because they get too refined. - No. - But if you've got an opinion on this, please let us know if you work for a think tank and you're shocked by our genius, we are available for job offers. - Relative to what good this will do to the world, we will charge incredibly low, a couple million each, which is for a consultant, that's all there's nothing. - Yeah. - That's like I've given it to you for free. - For a world-changing consultant. - The first one ever. - Yeah, and bearing a mind hour split, I get 92%. You got eight percent of four million. There's a lot of money, Andy. - I'm just grateful to have a slice of the pie, you know. - You can count it. (laughing) - He's a spineless coward. I'll see anything in your just a bite, wouldn't you? You'll give it all in me. You're not happy. I'm just so weak, my. And that's my common ground. Stay solubil and brave. In the deserts of my mind, an eight percent Andy's mind. Farewell and good night. (upbeat music) (upbeat music)