Episode 685: Clifford Olson Part IV - Cash for Corpses

There's no place to escape to. This is the last hot cast. On the left. Right up on your glade. That's when the cannibalism started. Who's that? Oh, yeah! Really great news I got from the prison feeds of Canada. This is important. This is super important. One of the better letters I've received ever. Did not know this. Another wonderful example of the Canadian state of mind. So, in prison, the worst thing you can call somebody is a goof. Yeah. Goof? Canadian prison. In Canadian prison, goof means pedophile. Oh! So, if you call somebody a goof in prison, they will stab you to death. Oh, my God. What if he comes? What if he calls someone goofy? Oh, dude, you might as well be fucking, you're going to get raped. Like, you're going to get beat to death. They're literally going to tie you down. They're going to beat you to death. I think goofy means, like, he'll probably do it. And then a goof is definitively, he's the guy. Okay, so maybe goofish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Goofy is the guy, essentially, 45-year-old man at the One Direction concert. 45-year-old man holding at a Taylor Swift concert. That's goofy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm not goofy. I'm Marcus Parks. I'm the most serious man you've ever met, Henry Zabrowski. Not even remotely goofy. I do not stand for this anti-goofy talk. Whoa, he's one of these apologists. He's one of these goof apologists. Goofy is one of the great comedians of all time, and he does not deserve this slander. Understandable, understandable. It's not his fault that he chose that name or the anti-Semitic Nazi scientist that, invented Goofy, also proliferated the term. Goofinowitz, of course. Of course. Well, we are here at Clifford Olson Part 4. We are here at the conclusion. Let's finish big, boys. And when we last left Clifford Olson, he just killed his seventh victim. But one thing that we didn't really illustrate by the end of the last episode was just how quickly Clifford Olson had reached such a high body count. He'd killed Christine Weller in December of 1980, his seventh victim, Judy Cosma, was killed just seven months later, in July of 1981. But that wasn't one victim a month. He had waited four months between victims one and two, which means that victims two through seven were all murdered between April and July. And to put it in even more perspective, Clifford Olson was caught in August, and he still had four murders to commit by the time he murdered Judy Cosma in July. Pop quiz word problem. If Clifford had kept killing at this rate, how many bodies would he have produced by Christmas 1981? Please submit your answers to sidestorieslpotl at gmail.com. Wow, this is one of those train things again. It's another one of these fucking issues. That same body run was only ever matched by Pete Davidson. Come on, y'all. Come on, guys. Coming for him. Coming for him. So sending everyone to side stories, we're flooding this. Well, only with people that are good with word problems. Oh, everyone's submitting. Only correct answers. No joke answers. No joke answers. Does it matter? The only thing is that I feel like the X factor is the fight in the lady and the small boy. Well, that is true, but. How small the small boy is, how useful the boy is, about whether or not he can get on the good side of Clifford Olson, finally get that rumored job that all these other boys keep hearing about. I'll pay you $10 an hour. Wait a second, wait a second. Oh, so you're coming on? We're negotiating. It's negotiating. Now, it was no small wonder why Clifford Olson had decided to head out of town for a bit for his ill-fated trip to California, where, if you'll remember, he'd almost drowned his own infant son in a motel pool in a bid to get his wife to give him $4,000 that was supposed to repay a debt to Clifford's father-in-law. Goofy. Yeah. Super goofy. That's very goofy, man. So yeah, there's a lot going on in Clifford's life, but this was how Clifford. had always lived his life. It was just that when a man crosses the line the way Clifford had, that chaos has a way of catching up to you. Now, going out of town for a bit did, in fact, clear Clifford's head, because when he returned to Vancouver, he decided that he was going to frame Randy, his 19-year-old drifter-in-training, for as many murders as possible. Clifford's head, however, was not clear enough to actually formulate a well-thought-through plan. See, Clifford figured that he could take some photos of Randy at the. crime scenes, using some excuse or another, not telling him, hey, we're going to go out to this crime scene, just, you know, let's go take some pictures. Put your head on the skull right there. Put an X in there. Pretend to kiss him. Okay, that's great. That's great. That's funny enough. No, hold. Hold. Hold. Kiss it like it's your grandma. Kiss it like you love it. Okay. I didn't realize he was an artist. Well, Randy was not very bright, so Randy would pretty much do whatever Clifford told him to do. But once Clifford had those pictures, he planned to murder. Randy, plant the photos on his corpse as if Randy was some guy who just walked around with photos of himself posing at his own murder scenes and then lead cops to the body. This, Clifford hoped, would ingratiate him to the police once again because the currency he'd gained from helping to convict Gary Marko of the rape and murder of a little girl in 1976, that was starting to run out. I'll tell you, though, from the way the Canadian police operated in this case, he probably isn't that far off. No. It seems like it's a crazy plan, but the way things are going, I feel like it could work. I feel like every police officer, there is nothing they would love more than to have their favorite goof take him out to a corpse, be like, there he is right there, and it's covered in evidence. He's got covered in evidence. And they're just like, wow, open and shut gate, boys. We did it. All good work, everybody. And they're just like high-fiving each other. Like, all right, time to go to the cottage. Somewhere make this man a deputy. Well, based on how Fred Miley earlier had, you know, the very first murder, he's like, you know, there was blood in that guy's hotel room, so, you know, I don't even need to arrest him. Like, good enough for me. Solved. Move on. Done. But before Clifford could figure out a rock-solid way to pin the murders on Randy, his own urge to rape and murder young teenagers was not in any way abating. In fact, Clifford's murders were about to get a whole lot worse. Almost immediately, after Olsen got back from California, he left his apartment around 9 a.m. on July 23rd, 1981, with a case of beer and a stack of Olsen & Olsen Enterprises business cards. That's like Molson without the M. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how you know it. That's how you remember it. It's Molson with no M. I could just see him, like, making his first business card with taking a box of Molson and just cutting the Olsen off and then writing his information on the back. Here's my card. Cliff, you've done it. Again. Cliff, you're simply the best business man you've met today. Good work. Now, Olsen usually picked up kids hitchhiking or hanging around gas stations, but this time, Olsen headed for the post office and the unemployment office because he figured those were good places to find desperate young kids. Kids love licking stamps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every time I go to the post office, I'm like, get these urchins off of me. Get out of here. But it's so nice because I hate the glue. Give me a mail, sir. I got you a mail. You want a mail? You want a mail or something? I'll write it for you down the street. That's a federal crime. That's actually, it's a little-known, like, thing that Canadians do when they're growing up. Geddy Lee. He was a stamp licker when he grew up. Oh, he looks like one. You call him that one more time. You don't want to know what stamp licker means in Canadian prison. Is that how you end up looking like him? Stamp licking leads to goofing. Before long, Olsen had picked up a 15-year-old named Raymond King who was looking for a job so he could quit school and get his own apartment. Raymond actually thought he'd hit the jackpot when Olsen picked him up with tales of a $10-an-hour job. But this time, Olsen told his victim that the kid was going to be working with a nail gun. Raymond, however, had no idea that while nails were in his future, they would not be a part of any new job. Instead, a single nail would prove to be the instrument of Raymond's demise. You ever see one of these nail guns? You ever seen a nail gun? You ever see what that does? It's kind of crazy, right? You don't need a license, you need a holster. It shoots nails, not bullets. You ever seen a fucking. I love nail guns. I want one. We all do. Yeah, we all want one. It's really fun to fuck around with. But they also don't work like you want them to. They don't shoot nails. That's a fact. That's a folk tale. Yeah, no, I would be really bad at it. I know that much. Yeah, they just kind of bounce off. It's not as cool as you think it is. It's not like, do you have a lethal weapon too? No. Nailed him. I always wanted to do that. It doesn't work. All right, so we're going to hop right into this. You're right, I'm sorry. So after taking Raymond out into a remote area of the Canadian woods, Olsen drugged and raped the boy. But this time, after Olsen was done, he picked up a hammer and a nail. And after carefully placing the nail on the crown of Raymond's head, Clifford used the hammer to drive it straight into Raymond's skull. Now, Olsen immediately tried prying the nail back out because he was usually pretty good about not leaving behind evidence of this nature. But when he tried removing the nail, he found that it was firmly stuck. Horrifically, though, Raymond was not only still alive throughout this struggle, but still conscious. So Olson raped Raymond again while the nail was still sticking out of the boy's skull. After finishing, Olson decided to forget the nail altogether. He dragged the boy to a gully and tossed him in with the nail still firmly implanted. And when the fall didn't kill Raymond, Olson threw small boulders at the boy's chest until he was sure that a fatal blow had caved it in. God damn it. So I hate to just ask a weird question about this. Wait, I love this. So the nail didn't go all the way into the head? It did not go entirely in. And he couldn't get it out? He couldn't get it out. It doesn't kill you immediately necessarily. It says a lot for the skull. It does. Not that, the skull needs advertising. But it does. It's pretty impressive. It's true. And Canadians are tough. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about murder is that that's what we find throughout these processes is that it's a lot harder to kill someone than you think it is. Yeah. Like, isn't it true? Like sometimes when you're trying to stab someone, if you like hit a rib, the knife will break. Yeah. That's crazy. It's very hard to kill a human being. Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Unless you accidentally hit that one. Unless it's like Con Air and you accidentally, you know, kill a guy during a fight, which happens. Yep. Or you systemically kill them. Yeah. Using pollution, you know, you know, money, disparities, lack of health care. Yeah. Cutting social programs. There's so many ways to kill whole swaths of people really easily, actually. I still think the DuPonts are worse than Clifford Olson. Yes. Wow. Yeah. No, I agree. Now, while that was the worst of Clifford's murders, well, I mean, arguably the worst, we're going to get to one more. It's still pretty bad. It certainly wasn't the last. Two days after murdering Raymond King, Olson picked up an 18-year-old German tourist named Sigrun Arndt, who was visiting a cousin in Coquitlam as a part of a Canadian solo trip. I just see him with that wool hat on and the lederhosen and a big leather bag. It's a woman. It's a girl. It's a girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Apologize. I'm sorry, women everywhere. Can we isolate that? Yeah, we can. We can use it in the future. We can use it many times. Many times. After picking Sigrun up, Olson disarmed her by saying that his best friends were actually two Germans from Frankfurt, Gunther and Gisela Kleinschmidt. They trust me with everything. So he got one more use out of them. Yeah, he's like, do you know them? And she's like, nein, Frankfurt's quite a big city. I don't know. I don't know the Kleinschmidt's. But in the end. Have you ever met Adolf Hitler? Yeah, what's he like? Have you ever met Albert Einstein? I wonder what he's like, big hair, huh? But in the end, Sigrun also fell victim to the hammer. This time, Clifford led Sigrun to a clearing near some railroad tracks. After he bashed her head in and started getting undressed, however, a train clacked by. The engineer actually locked eyes with Clifford Olson, who was standing above the body of an unconscious girl, taking his shirt off. Clifford Olson gives the guy a friendly wink. Cold. off later that day because after just five hours and i'm not even kidding here they had decided it was too hard according to the rcmp officers olson's day-to-day habits were so bizarre and so erratic the surveillance team just threw up their hands and deemed olson as an impossible person to follow he's just simply an invisible criminal and we honestly he beat us yeah yeah you know if we keep following him, we're not going to have time to get drunk. You know what I was thinking? It's we start following on drinking. Oh! But the problem is, is that, you know, the bar that I like to end my night at, we're going in the opposite direction, and I don't have enough gas to get back over there. This is fucking over. Ginty's doesn't have the goddamn game on. Yeah, I gotta go to Slurnow's in order to get my beautiful milk beer. All the wonderful things that Canada has to offer. My shrimp chips, my ketchup drink. Well, RCMP came to believe that Olsen was, quote, jerking him around, playing games. Yeah, he was! He was being tailed by the police! But Olsen, and I actually believe him on this, he had no idea he was even being followed that first day. Olsen lived his life in such a state of extreme chaos at all times that not even he knew what his next move was going to be. Which is why I often compare him to the Joker. That chaos obviously served a purpose, and it probably went a long way towards keeping Clifford Olsen from getting caught as often as he should have been. And this was still a guy who spent half his life in prison up to this point. He should have been caught more, but if you're constantly zigging and zagging and there's no pattern to anything you do, cops depend on patterns. And if they don't have that, they're lost. Was Randy his number one guy? See, what is my favorite saying that in Spanish? We sat there, Tu eres mi número uno hombre. Olsen was playing a game at this point, but not the one the cops were expecting. Clifford was going full steam ahead with his plan to frame his number one guy, Randy, for all of his murders. And Olsen had set up a meeting with a detective named Dennis Tarr to lay down the groundwork. Olsen was actually so confident in his plan that he actually brought Randy with him to this meeting so as to establish to the cops that the two men were known associates when it came time to tell his web of lies about Randy. Now, the plan was that Clifford and Randy together were going to give information about drugs and robberies, which would get the cops on Clifford's side. Although I don't know what Randy was getting out of all this. He was, after all, an idiot. So I'm sure Clifford fed him a good enough line to at least convince an idiot. The key to avoiding cops is to get as close to them as possible and tell them everything that we're doing, Randy. Everything we're doing, but the big things. You get that, Randy? Oh, yeah. Okay, here's some beer. Thank you. But when the time was right, Olsen was going to sacrifice Randy and take the credit for leading cops to this vicious killer of children, who'd been haunting Vancouver these last seven months. They must have even orchestrated this with Clifford at this point, literally just being like, we know what's going on, but if you could get us Randy, that'd be, we'll be great. We'll take Randy. Just give us anybody. Give us anybody and we'll be fine. And then promise to never do it again. You just got on pinky swear. Olsen, however, was also good at improvising. See, Detective Tarr wanted to immediately focus on the murdered and missing children. You want to know anything about drugs or robberies? So Olsen sped up the timeline. He told the RCMP that he might be able to lead him to these bodies, but only if they paid him $3,000 a month for his services. And so the meeting ended with Detective Tarr agreeing to introduce Olsen to other RCMP officers at a later time to perhaps solidify a deal for Clifford to get paid. At the same time, they also figured it was a good idea to put a tail on this Clifford guy because Clifford was obviously shady. The man, was asking for money up top and the idea that they even could entertain that is so just out of my, it just boggles my fucking mind. Well, we can't pay him as much as we pay each other. Yeah, we have to think about that. He'll be making more than Deputy Stevens. You know, like, we just can't let Deputy Stevens know. Because frankly, it's not fair. It's not fair, but Cliff's great. Yeah, he's finding all the bodies. He knows where every one is. And he knows how they died. And he knows where they came from. He's even got a hammer. He's crazy. It's an old hammer. He showed me what to do. But this RCMP unit was different from Fred Miley's serious crimes unit, who also decided to give the surveillance another go. Come on, boys. Come on. I know you can do it. You're smiling. You're not taking this serious enough. Good. Now that's a frown. I can believe it. Well, it's not the frowning crimes unit. It's the serious crimes unit. You don't have to look like such a sourpuss all the time. Honestly, I need you to fix your attitude. You take that sad attitude over to the child rape area, which is considered the sad wing of the Canadian police. The goofiest area we have, but you still cannot smile. Goofy is bad here. The serious crimes unit wanted to catch Olsen red-handed with surveillance. So when Olsen and Randy picked up two underage hitchhikers just 40 minutes after they met with Detective Tarr, the SCU figured they were about to catch Clifford in the middle of mayhem. Yeah, now we can get him right after he kills somebody. Okay, wait till he doesn't. Wait, wait till he doesn't. Wait, they're kissing. The hammer's coming back. No, he's putting it down. They seem to be all at. I did actually wonder at what point were they going to go, freeze! But because the SCU and the RCMP weren't communicating, the RCMP, the RCMP, swooped in to save these two girls from being violated, and they arrested Clifford for the far smaller charge of contributing to juvenile delinquency. This, of course, completely fucked the SCU's plan. In fact, the SCU would have almost certainly caught Clifford red-handed, because Clifford claimed that he'd fully intended to murder one or both of those girls that day. That was most likely the day he was going to initiate Randy. But because of the miscommunication, Olsen was set free after this piddling arrest one more time to commit one more murder. Also, I like the idea of the crime that he was contributing to a juvenile's crime. Yeah. That's the idea, that it wasn't even that. He was an accessory to a child's crime. Yep. Now, while the RCMP argued over whether or not Clifford could be trusted to give them real information, he picked up his next victim, a 17-year-old named Louise Chartrand, and took her two hours north to Whistler Mountain. There, he raped and killed her with a hammer, and left her body in a shallow depression in the ground before covering up the body with sand and gravel. His last one was a bit anticlimactic. Meanwhile, people were starting to discover more of Clifford Olsen's handiwork, which altogether removed the rash of runaways narrative that some authorities were still pushing. On August 5th, a hiker caught the unmistakable scent of a dead body at Weaver Lake, where Judy Cosma's body had been found just 10 days earlier. Cops soon found the nail-riddled body of Raymond King. And when this body was found, one RCMP inspector reportedly exclaimed, quote, How many other bodies are up there? Oh, great! Oh, this is the best phone call I've got all day! Where is he? Oh, yeah, you got it. Oh, buddy, we're sitting on a gold mine. We're gonna solve all kinds of crimes today. We've got one! Turns out, this wasn't a runaway. I like to go and hang out in the corpse garden. It's up on Whistler Mountain. So now that the bodies of three boys have been found raped and killed, it was the media's turn to speculate on the homosexual pervert angle. Thankfully, though, the originator of that theory, Fred Miley of the SCU, the Serious Crimes Unit, he had firmly decided that Clifford Olson was their man. He had, however, perhaps decided a little too firmly, as we'll soon see. Now, when the SCU ordered more surveillance on Clifford, they found that he had skipped town. After he'd killed Louis Chartrand, Clifford had woken up and woken his wife, Joan, in the middle of the night just to see done after the murder of Judy Cosma. But this time, instead of going to Disneyland, they were going to the second happiest place on Earth. Calgary! Oh, yay! Honestly, Calgary is fun. I love Calgary. I had a great night there. We saw that weird hip-hop open mic night there. White Canadian rap is the most interesting thing you've ever seen in your life. I still put it among top 20 shows in my entire life. It was fun. It was so much fun. They're one of the youngest towns in Canada. Yeah, yeah. They very much remind. It reminds me of Lubbock, honestly. Real goofy place. If everyone's children, it has to be goofy. Sure. Clifford told Joan that there were charges coming against him, but he was totally innocent. They still had to get out of town, though. He's totally innocent of these charges, but they're coming, and we gotta go. Let's just say it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. In reality, though, it seems like Clifford Olsen may have been trying to tie up loose ends. See, when Clifford went to Calgary, he contacted the woman we talked about in episode 2, Debbie, whose weeks-long horror show with Clifford. Clifford Olson in 1977 had landed her in a mental hospital. In fact, Debbie had just been released from the institution and Olson had every intention to murder her. Debbie, however, wisely declined to meet up after Clifford contacted her to catch up on old times. There's another note I'm going to say to remind you all that I don't think there's any such thing as closure. And when somebody does that out of nowhere to call you after like years of not seeing you in that kind of way, and then they're going to do something, I'm going to say a lot of times, just don't go. Don't pick up that phone call. Just don't go. I mean, if they're going through the steps. Text them. Yeah, text them. Say hello. You can say hi. If they're going through the steps and trying to make amends. Please do, yeah. Take that. It's a phone call. Take the call. Take the call. Yeah. But don't meet them up. You don't have to take the call either if they're a real piece of shit. And you really don't. You don't. Yeah, you really don't. It's up to you. Now, after Clifford Olsen returned to Coquitlam on August 7th, the Serious Crimes Unit continued their surveillance. Every single fucking time I say it, I feel like I'm making it up. Serious Crimes! I feel like I'm making it up. Like, that's the name that I made up to make fun of Canadian police officers. These aren't parking tickets. These are Serious Crimes. These are Serious Big Time Crimes. I can't imagine every time they have to explain what they are, they like spill something on themselves. Oh, God damn it. Oh, God. He's like, Sting falls over his shoes. He's a cesarean. Who put this banana peel here? All the rest of the cops keep sneaking into their office to put whoopee cushions on their chairs. This is ruining the tone. This is a serious tone. Who give me the ink-filled gum? Well, after just a few days of watching Clifford Olsen, Mounties saw Olsen pick up two young hitchhikers and drive them out to the woods. That's right. That's right. That's right. Let's catch them on our horses, boys. Yeah! Now, by my reading of the situation, Clifford had been trying again and again for a double murder. It's not uncommon once killers enter the so-called berserker mode that usually gets them caught. I mean, Ted Bundy famously killed two women in the same day at the same time by picking them up from a lake outside of Seattle, I think. Yeah. And at four at the fucking, at the sorority. Well, that was the true berserker mode. Yeah. But again, the Mounties intervene before Clifford. To get too far. He and the girls were still in the drinking and carrying on phase. That's before shit turned really dark. But Clifford did not talk his way out of this one when the Mounties approached. Instead, he tried to make like a rabbit one more time and run. But this was the wrong move for the moment. Once Clifford was caught and arrested, the Mounties perused the notebook he had on his person. And after carefully reading through every line, they found the name of murder victim Judy Cosma. Written in her own handwriting just two weeks before Clifford had killed her. It was the first solid lead the cops had, but it was all they needed to finally pin at least one murder on Clifford Olsen. For his part, Clifford would never see another day of freedom for the rest of his long, miserable life. I guess the hockey game or something must have been over. They finally did some form of police work. Oh, yeah. You know, like it's like almost like they finally they were like just got bored enough. To be like, all right, why don't we look through the stuff he has? You know what? I don't think there's any hockey during August. I think that's what this is. And maybe it's before soccer or after soccer. Baseball season's wrapping up. Yeah. And if they're not in it. Expos ain't fucking doing shit. Fuck the Expos, dude. I'm a fucking guard. Died in the world Mets fan. They're not even a team anymore. Fuck those motherfucking pieces of fucking shit. We beat them, dude. Fly from your grave. As you might imagine, the interrogation of Clifford Olsen was not a simple process. As it often happens with narcissists, they can't help but make contradictory and revealing statements once they feel like they have a platform to finally tell their side of the story. Especially because they can't sometimes see their own, like, because they're so centered on their own point of view, their lack of empathy eventually does become a flaw. Yeah. Because they can't really see how other people are interpreting them. Yeah. Because they think they're in control. And that's the thing, is that for the longest time, they are. Yeah. Like, they usually are, but. Oh, he's been in control this entire fucking time. Mm-hmm. But the world that a narcissist builds to protect themselves, it only works as long as the narcissist has control over the narrative. Yes. But when irrefutable evidence comes into play, the narcissist has to keep changing their story to fit the narrative. Or, the narcissist has to keep changing their story to fit the new narrative. One lie begets another. Which begets another. And pretty soon, the narcissist becomes trapped in reality. And he's only got two choices. They can either continue to deny reality and make up more stories. You know, O.J. Simpson kept looking for the real killers until the day he died. He died of exhaustion. Yeah. He died of exhaustion searching for those men. Those many men. It took four men to kill those people. Yeah, he had the fucking mirrors removed from his home. Yes. Where is he? Where is he? Or, the narcissist can make a full confession and see where that takes him. Olson, of course, tried both tactics before everything was said and done. Now, for the first hour and a half of Clifford Olson's incredibly long interrogation, the Mounties focused on the delinquency charge they'd just arrested him on, while Olson calmly chatted about himself. They let him get comfortable for a bit. Finally, though, an SCU officer dropped the bombshell that Clifford was under investigation for the murder of Judy Kazma. Now, Clifford pretended that he had no idea who Judy was. Like, why are you even asking me about this? Well, the cops said he'd been charged with a lot of sexual assaults. Olson, having never been convicted, said that he'd been framed every single time. And if he ever found out which woman framed him, he'd, quote, fix her clock. I'd kill her. I'd kill her and bury her with a hammer. I'd murder her with a hammer. They would bury her in a shallow grave. I'll tell you what, I'm never using these nails again. These nails, you just can't get them out of school. These are, honestly, Canadian tires gone downhill, and that's mostly what my crimes have been about. It's also just so nice of y'all to let me hold on to my hammer. Yeah, you might want to stop waving it around. You're making the detective nervous, but we want you to be comfortable. Well, the officers then asked Olson about the repeated offers towards teenagers to wash windows for the ridiculous sum of $10 an hour, to which Clifford said, Hey, come on here, I'm in construction. Look at my business cards. They're embossed. Oh, my God, seashell. Oh, my God, look at this mother of pearl. Yeah, right? I paid a lot of money for that. But finally, when the officers played their best hand, and they told Olson that Judy Cosma's name had been found written in his notebook, Olson shut his mouth and asked for his lawyer, the aforementioned Bob Shantz. Oh, Bob Shantz. You Shantz be going to jail. You choose, Bob. Shantz. They were correct. They were correct. Now, it took a long time for Bob Shantz to answer Clifford's phone call. See, in America, cops aren't technically supposed to keep questioning a suspect after they ask for a lawyer, in theory. But that's not how it works in Canada. Cops can keep asking you questions as long as they want. So, for a full week, while Olson waited for Shantz to call him back, Olson was questioned by the RCMP in sessions that would last up to 13 hours at a time. During this part of the interrogation, one of Olson's main antagonists was a self-styled tough guy detective named Rick Rauchio. Like a lot of tough guys, Rauchio didn't have a lot of imagination. So, his go-to interrogation tactic was to call Clifford gay. Then talk about how much Clifford probably liked to give blowjobs, like a gay. Because, Clifford, you're gay. I bet you think you're real tough, huh? I think you think you're real tough. Now, feel these muscles. Feel these muscles. Oh, yeah. You're gay, right? Oh, oh. That made you gay, right? I forgot when I touch a man, I'm gay. Look how tough I am. Go over here. Here. Sit on the back of my motorcycle. Put your arms around my fucking waist. Now, what I want you to do is I want you to press. I want you to press against me. Hold me tight. We're going to go fast. Feel the top of my penis. All right, listen. We're going to go a little faster right now. Now, listen. Now, what I want you to do is I want you to sit on my lap, facing me. All right. How does this make you feel? I, you know, I'm fine with it. It makes me feel a little gay, honestly. Yeah, it is a little gay. I mean, I'm okay. I mean, I'm fine with it. What if I told you, Cliff, this is making me feel kind of gay? What if I told you? I'm a bit of a friend of Dorothy myself. You know what I'm saying? It's not as much of an insult as you believe it is. That's what I'm saying. Do you want to go Pluto, which is when two adults goof? I see what you're doing. You're doing good cop, gay cop. Well, I'm the gay cop. And if anybody's sucking. It's me. Now, Rocio's bullying did nothing to budge Olson. But when Olson finally did get a hold of Bob Shantz, attorney at law, Shantz told him to answer whatever questions the cops had until they were satisfied that Olson was not the person they were looking for. Horrible lawyer. No, just answer their questions. Just do it. Oh, you know, just keep answering questions until I get there. Say whatever you need to say, okay? You know, in Canadian law, that's always the best thing is when the cops start asking you questions, answer all of them. And you know what? Don't even worry about me showing up. You don't need a lawyer. I shan't be showing up to the trial. I gotta say, Bob, you get funnier every call. The only problem here is that Olsen was very much the person they were looking for. But despite Olsen's erratic behavior throughout his life, he had gone to great lengths to ensure that no evidence was sitting in his home waiting to bite him in the ass. He'd always burned all of his clothes and the clothes of his victims after murders. He used new weapons every single time. And if he did keep trophies, it was never for very long. He might hold on to a ring for like a day before flicking it out the window. He truly did not care about a single other person. Did not care about it. No, like sentimentality is gone. Because normally even serial killers keep trophies as a way to control their victims later on. And to relive the crimes. Yeah, and I just feel like he was so empty. He didn't even have that. Like he didn't even have the, I need to go and obsess about what I did already. He was so quickly making new bodies and moving on. Well, that's, it also speaks to, you know, the, you know, they say he never felt bad about anything. He has no sense of reflection, no sense of the past, none whatsoever. It's like, because, you know, BTK kept, you know, a treasure trove in his daughter's tree house for years. And you'd go up there and you'd relive his crimes. A lot of guys do this. Did we go into the, did you go into Dennis Rader's journals? Did you hear all about this? About how like that's why his daughter finally stopped talking to him after all this time. She kind of flipped her lid too. But because he had put in his journals all of the times he had fantasized, about raping his own daughter and he wrote it in the journal. And that's also, so that's an example of how deep the obsession can go and how Clifford Olson doesn't have any of that. It's the exact opposite side of the spectrum. And it also, I, but I also think like, I mean, you keep making the ADHD joke, but. I, I'm just, it's just funny to make it as an excuse to get out of murder. But I do believe he does have ADHD. He doesn't have object permanence problems. But the thing is about it is that. He is with ADHD. There's always certain things that you focus on and that you're really good at and that you can always pay attention to and get into no matter what. For Clifford, it was murder. Yeah, boy murder. He knew how to get out. He knew he could concentrate when it came time to cleaning it up because it mattered to him. And he's the ultimate example of you do what you love. They say that you never work a day in your life, but actually it's like more that you do work even more than you've ever worked before. Yeah, it's like you do. It's just means you're constantly. Working. Yeah, if you don't want to work, you shouldn't choose a job that involves hammers. You're right. That is true. Thank you. That is true. No, by the time cops searched Clifford Olsen's house from top to bottom, there was nothing linking him to any murders at all. That's the Olsen. He might have even skated on these murders because the only evidence against him was Judy Cosma's name written in his notebook. I mean, yeah, they had the nail in Raymond's head, but it's a fucking nail. It's not like he was going and buying like special nails from a special. Nail store that they could trace. I'm still going to say that the cops did not go as far as they should have gone in this case. So like the idea that like they I feel like if they had just dug maybe a foot deeper. Yeah, yeah, they didn't. They stopped following him voluntarily. Yes, yeah, no, there's that they beat the cops every time he did. Yeah, the cops definitely were. They were baffled by him and with the cash for body scandal. He ultimately won all together. He became a cop. Yes, yeah, well, I think it's also a case of, you know, we were talking about it in the very either the first or the second episode. They don't know how to deal with this shit. They have like I think Clifford Olsen scares the ever living fuck out of them and they don't want to go digging around in a corpse pit. You don't want to find all of the horrible things that they missed. Yeah, now, even though Judy Cosma's name written in his notebook was the only evidence linking him to any murder at this point, Clifford began. To think he was smart enough to talk his way out of these seemingly endless interrogation. Why wouldn't he? So after a week of Canadian good cop, bad cop, you do got to say something, because if not, we're taking we're going to take those beers we put in your cell away from you. You listen to that. You're going to do that and you're going to smoke this whole pack. Yes, and then we're going to switch it to American bacon. Yeah, you know how you like that. That's only half the bacon you're used to getting. And I'm only going to let you watch the. First. Second. First period of the Oilers game. That's what I want that for. That's too much. That's what I'm calling the Supreme Court. After a week of that, Olsen began alluding to a friend who might know quite a bit about missing and murdered children in the Vancouver area. Olsen would only tell investigators about this friend if they agreed to a deal. And his name is Blifford. Blifford Grolson. The first deal Olsen put forth was pretty simple. He said that he did have information on nine to 16 missing children, give or take, but he would only give that information if he could get a guarantee that any part he may have played in their deaths would get him sent to a mental institution instead of a federal penitentiary. And we know why he was obsessed with the mental institution, because he really did feel like once he got in there, he could either talk his way out or escape. Yep. Do you think that he actually didn't know the number like part of it? No, he didn't know how many people he killed, and that was legitimate. He's like, I don't know, five to 16. No, he knew. He knew exactly as much. Yeah, he knew exactly. It's kind of, he's, this whole time, remember, he is running a con. He is running, he is a con man, and at this point, if he's like nine to 16, you know, you have to start big and then narrow it down. You let them tell you how much they know. So he can go nine to 16, and eventually they'll tell him how many bodies they eventually found. And then he can. You know, he can move around his story, move around the pieces however he wants to get what he wants. But once Olsen started talking about his so-called friend, the Mounties knew that Olsen was all but ready to confess. They just had to drag it out of him. And the man to do it was Corporal Fred Miley from the Serious Crimes Unit. Now, instead of berating Olsen about his supposed sexuality, Fred Miley related to Clifford Olsen on a human level and tried a little kindness. Hey, you gay? Yeah. Gay? It's okay to be gay. It's cool to be gay. It's great to be gay. David Bowie's half gay. Yeah. And look how cool he is. Yeah. That's cool as hell. Coolest guy around. I mean, come on. The coolest part of him's the gay part. Now, while being kind is far harder to do than just beating and berating a suspect, especially when you've got a guy in front of you that you're pretty sure has murdered a bunch of children, being kind and treating someone like a human is, from what I've seen, the tactic that most often leads to murder. And I think that's what's so cool about it. I think that's what's so cool about it. happened to the other five now what's really interesting here is that fred miley sort of tried to give clifford olsen some outs but olsen refused to take the outs once he got himself talking when miley offered that clifford's friend blifford had a split personality and by the way blifford is not there blifford is something we made up i want to be clear that blifford is something we made up ed made up blifford on the spot blifford is not a part of the interrogation blifford is real blifford did these crimes i am continuing to look for him he's a giant blue dog you didn't see it you'd scream if you saw him well miley offered that clifford's friend had a split personality and couldn't control themselves when they were on alcohol and pills olsen actually argued miley's point clifford said quote no you're wrong you're wrong fred all right he can control it but he still does it even though he's not a part of the interrogation even though he's not a part of the interrogation even though he's not a part of the interrogation manic, narcissistic charm. had run out completely once the scope of his crimes began circulating. But Olson did prove that he still had charm when it counted. When Olson underwent a psychiatric evaluation to see if he was fit to stand trial, he bragged to Fred Miley that no evaluation would matter because Olson could trick any doctor they sent who might try to figure out old Clifford Olson. And sure enough, when the psychiatrist arrived in a room where Clifford was waiting and asked, hey, are you Clifford Olson, Clifford acted drunk and said, nah, I'm not Olson. He just left. So the doctor said, okay, sorry to bother you, sir. Jesus, you fucking people are so fucking stupid. You're taking a prisoner's word. Going in there and literally the man that you told is a list, a five-page long list of crimes, murder and rape, and then you just go in and he's like, well, he said he's not him, so I'm going home. I can't believe I'm like the American John. The system is better. It's like, is it crazy? The psychiatrist walked right back out the door and Fred Miley was actually waiting outside. So when the doctor left the room, Miley was like, geez, doctor, that's a quick. Dog said, oh, I haven't started. Where's Olson? Miley says, he's in that fucking room you just came out of. Doctor said, no, you idiot. That's not Olson. That's just some drunk. And finally, Miley says, Jesus Christ, that's Olson. He's got you gone, too. This is literally a Marx Brothers fucking show. It's like a movie, dude. It's like it's one thing. It's one step away from who's on first. He went that way. Yeah. Well, Olson could certainly trick a psychiatrist for a moment. He was by no means smart enough to manipulate one for his own grand purposes. Clifford Olson was not only found fit to stand trial, but was deemed by every psychiatrist to be a non-candidate for the insanity defense. Every mental health professional who saw Clifford Olson told attorney Bob Shantz that insanity wouldn't work because Clifford, clearly knew the difference between right and wrong. Clifford actually tried to manipulate one psychiatrist into working with him on a book and a subsequent movie deal, which is not something that insane people generally tend to discuss when they have interviews with psychiatrists to determine their sanity. But for the wise psychiatrist, you can offer quite the many dividends. Yeah, definitely probably a better paycheck. Yeah, and so Olson was left with no choice but to do a plain old not guilty plea for all his charges. When the trial came, however, Olson seemed both bored and mortified by the entire process. Most of the time, he was calm and callous, loudly sighing at regular intervals. But he also got agitated, particularly when he heard recordings of his own voice because he hadn't expected to sound so sleazy and weak. I don't sound like that. Listen to my voice and listen to that, but play it back. Play it back. Did Rick Moranis do this? Is this an impressionist? Is this SCTV? In the end, it seems like Olson just felt like the whole thing was taking too long. And so because he probably saw the trial as a lost cause anyway, he changed his plea to guilty halfway through. The judge immediately gave him a term of life in prison for each murder with a minimum of 25 years before he could be eligible for parole. An uncharacteristic move for the Canadian criminal justice system, though. And this might have been. The judge throwing a little bit of shade on every parole board who would let Clifford go again and again. The judge explicitly added that he hoped that no future parole boards would ever consider freeing Clifford Olson. Wow, and those are some strong words. And I just feel like that really, wow, that really nailed it down. Him just going, I really hope that somebody does the things different in the future. I hope that they consider it. So at long last. On January 14th, 1982, after a lifetime causing untold amounts of chaos, anguish, and death all across Canada, Clifford Olson's charm finally ran out at the age of 42. Oh, that's our age! It's my age! Yeah, I'm a little older. Wow. That's my age. Now, the Bodies for Money scheme had been kept out of the press before the trial. No, wait, I'm 43. Yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that. I'm the baby. Now, the Bodies for Money scheme had been kept out of the press before the trial, because while Canadian journalists had known about the Bodies for Money scheme, Canadian journalists don't have First Amendment rights like we do when it comes to trials. We can put anything we find out in the papers. In Canada, if a government doesn't want it in the papers, it doesn't go in the papers. Yeah, it's so as to not buy us. It's for the trial. It's actually a better way of doing it, honestly. Yeah, it's a smarter way of doing it because it keeps people. Because it keeps stuff like people. Juries already. It keeps people that are already swayed by the news before they even get added to a jury. Yeah. But that's just during the trial. Once the trial was over, the media immediately broke the Bodies for Cash story, and the condemnation was so universal and so vigorous that the Attorney General decided to just retire because he didn't want to fucking deal with it. Pussy! You fucking pussy! He's like, hold on, I can just retire and you pay me and I never have to talk about this? So I'm just. Oh, I quit. I quit. Overall, though, the government argued that the bodies would have likely never been found without Olsen's cooperation. Because you suck. Well, I mean. Who knows? They didn't even try. To be entirely fair, we wouldn't have found half of Gary Ridgway's victims had he not personally led us to those bodies. Yeah, you do it the old-fashioned way where you break down the motherfucker. You just do it the way you're supposed to do it. Over time. Yes. Or you get the team of 100 people. You get the team of 100 people and you comb the fucking woods and shit. That's the thing. And you just go and go and go and you put lots of money and time into the investigation. Yeah, but the woods here were, I mean, even more vast than the woods outside of Tacoma. There's a lot of woods in Canada. I do understand that this made it easier and it happened. It did. It did make it easier. But the media didn't buy this excuse. Of course. It amounted to the cops justifying a shortcut to justice by putting taxpayer money in the pocket of a killer. Or at least the wife. Of a killer. Because all of the money went to Joan. It basically went to him because then she can put it in the fucking kitty for him. She could do lots of different stuff with that money. I think Joan fucked off. Yeah. I think Joan was finally like, okay, he's in prison. I don't have to deal with him anymore. But speaking of Joan, the media got even more vicious when Joan Olsen got the bodies for cash check for $100,000. And at the very same time, in fact, like the same week, the mother of Clifford Olsen's last teenage victim, she had her welfare benefits cut. In half because she was no longer supporting a child because Clifford Olsen had murdered that child. It's a real bad comparison. That's a technical that I kind of agree with, you know, because as soon as you kill all the children of a family, they're not parents anymore. Right. Did Joan pay her father back? Oh, my God. Oh, no. Joan. So you got this $100,000. I'm just saying that eight grand. I mean, it's an outstanding debt. I mean, no matter what. But that mother, eventually, the mother of Clifford Olsen's last victim, she was eventually awarded $4,000 from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board of Canada. Coincidentally, this was the same board that had awarded Clifford Olsen $3,500 in 1974 after he'd been stabbed in prison with a pair of scissors for being a snitch. I mean, Canada is just a wacky, mixed up place, ain't it? They're trying to figure stuff out. I mean, we all are. Yeah. So she got $400. That's 4% of the murderer's money. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Cool. Yeah. Now, Olsen naturally lived a solitary life in prison, but he kept himself busy by talking extensively to Peter Worthington, the author of the book we used as a main source for our series, Predator. Like, Clifford Olsen, they're only supposed to have something like two phone calls a month, but Clifford Olsen charmed his way into a payphone every day for, like, dozens of calls a day and collect calls. And then he did it through. When we listened to the, uh, uh, what was it? The, uh, there was the, that podcast that was Calls from a Killer. Mm-hmm. That same thing, where he just got to talk for hours on the phone. Yep. Well, otherwise, Olsen filled his time by filing repeated complaints in prison. In 1992, Olsen filed a complaint because he was denied the right to purchase a solid pleasure, life-size, revolutionary, not-inflated sex doll for the low, low price of $24.95. What does that mean? What does that mean, not-inflated? I mean, you've got to blow it up yourself. So it's plastic? It's just, it's not inflated yet. It's foam? Yeah, solid, life-size, like, okay, so we're talking. It's like an inner tube that hasn't been inflated yet. I'm trying to, I'm flipping through men's magazines ads in my head for 1992. Is it shaped like a pussy in a butt, or is it just a whole? No, it's a full sex doll, but not inflated, which meant it was probably foam. But it's, if it's $24.95, it's gonna be. It can't be a great one. It's not gonna be a good one, no. It's a non-inflated. Doesn't mean it's not inflatable. Exactly. Yeah. Because you can't, yeah, I'm trying to. I'm looking it up. Continue on this. Well, Olsen argued that the doll would greatly improve his mental and physical health. But after his request was denied, he actually tried taking the case all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada. He did not, however, make it to the highest court of the land. But speaking of threats, Olsen also threatened to sue anyone, any journalist, who called him a sex criminal. Because Clifford had technically. never been convicted of sex crimes. Murder, sure, but never sex. crimes but those lawsuits of course also went nowhere why would they even let them file them i mean you know but we've we've had our own uh run-ins with serial killers being angry about the things that we say yeah they don't get anywhere like that like it it mostly amounts them to talking a lot of trash it doesn't actually make it to court if you have money to do it you can sue anybody you like yeah yeah but if you're in prison for serial killing uh you don't have a whole lot of money usually yeah he's got a hundred thousand dollars now olsen well that money was kept for by his wife also olsen supposedly didn't see a dime of it i'm gonna i'm gonna just say i i am my heart of hearts there is no way he didn't see some of that money sure now olsen did at long last decide to completely confess to everything in even greater detail than he confessed to author peter worthington he actually filled 30 notebooks at 50 pages each full of details on how he picked up every victim what he said to them what his thought processes were and what his fantasies had been he then went into the rapes the murders and even the necro pedophilia to steal a phrase from cannibal corpse cute you understand what they're saying cannibal corpse yeah i can read the lyrics yeah they read the lyrics and also the song is called necro pedophilia i can i can read the song titles on the bat on the sleeve of the record oh okay big cannibal corpse man these notebooks were not for public consumption olsen had written these to be delivered to his son when little stephen finally turned 19 in the year 2000 he figured 19's old enough as olsen said he didn't want stephen to learn about his dad from others and these notebooks would help set the record straight right from your grave now olsen tried making more deals for bodies in an attempt to get him transferred to a mental and institutional institution at long last but nobody wanted to take another risk on making a deal with clifford olsen after what happened last time and so clifford became just another man to be denied parole again and again but in 2006 olsen was feeling particularly chatty during this parole hearing he told the parole board that serial killers should never be paroled adding quote that's my opinion i'm not trying to be facetious or smart or being a jackass or anything i think serial killers need to be punished yeah yeah now olsen didn't name anyone specifically but all signs point towards him talking about carla homolka who'd been granted parole the year before i think we're seeing sexism talking i don't want to talk out of turn please i know i think clifford olsen might have been a bit of a misogynist as well it could be carla was one half of the ken and barbie killers with paul bernardo and it seems like also was miffed that homolka had been released nobody in canada is happy about it no not even clifford also was happy about carla homolka being released she just actually covered inside stories not too long ago she was just discovered in another facebook mommy group where because she's under an assumed name in a private area yeah and so she keeps being discovered and then having to flee wherever she's at so she just recently was discovered again on like a mommy group on facebook she just needs to stay off social media she needs to throw herself in a lake olsen wasn't done making waves during this 2006 hearing he said that it didn't matter what the parole board said because they had no jurisdiction over him anymore instead olsen claimed that he had been granted immunity by the united states department of homeland security why well apparently olsen according to his own testimony had provided key information during the investigation into 9 11. oh thank you yeah yeah new york thanks you yeah yeah we're in new york right now for new york comic con new york definitely thanks you now olsen did not reveal what information he provided only that he had rung the alarm bell all the way back in 1999 he told people that 9 11 is going to happen and he knew who was going to do it too yeah didn't say how he knew or how he'd found out about this being in solitary for you know the last 20 30 years cut to a little scene a little bar in coquitlam osama bin laden's visiting you know walking around after taking doing college right in america and he's just doing a little tour of coquitlam and he sits down to a little rascally little critterly looking man and they tell each other their whole life stories and they laugh and they laugh all night so osama let me ask you if you had a million dollars and you could do anything what would you do destroy america my friend me too now i'm gonna tell my friend carl rove all about this don't worry i love god god is my friend what is those some have been running a pizza shop yes i like him you like a pornography yeah me i like the pornography i love it the pro board of course was not impressed by clifford's last grand narcissistic gamble and therefore denied his release by 2011 clifford olsen had come down with cancer and he finally died at the age of 71 taking all of his 9 11 secrets with him give him a hundred grand for the secrets behind 9 11. yeah i didn't care about 9 11 and this proves it actually you know the truth is is that toronto had the first major investigation into 9 11 uh outside of the united states of america they toronto devolved an entire world of resources to investigating 9 11. yeah they were obsessed with it and there was a whole there was a place called conspiracy culture that used to be a bookstore in toronto that was like the heart of like this is where david ike used to first show up he used to go hang out like all the good cool guys and they yeah they they put uh beluga team six on the whole thing and they mostly were just like we're gonna get back to this after the summer don't forget wasn't there like a whole musical written about the jet that had to land in newfoundland was it newfoundland or new zealand it was newfoundland yeah oh it's definitely newfoundland trust me yeah yeah but you know what i don't need to see that because i'm too busy spending all money all my money going down and buying premiere tickets to slam frank have you seen this i've i've seen something i thought it was fake i thought it was ai it sounds fake as hell it is a rap musical about and frank i haven't it's not all whispers i can't i got my period i got my p period and you know that's bad when the blood's in the water the nazis come back hey kitty this is shitty yeah it's a bridge to it is a bridge too far it's where stomp used to be it's trying too hard you gotta rap i'm sorry but you can't just sit still you gotta know that you sit with your mother inside for the rest of your life it would be too offensive to do and frank stomp oh my god well this was great yeah this is fun oh my god it was great yeah this was great yeah this is fun oh i had so much fun with this it was fun to do true crime again and next week we're going to get into an old-timey flimflam man that every y'all are going to love this story timey flimflam man and we got some spooky coming up i um can't i'm so excited yeah and the next head on the mountain rush more of evil is going to be put up within i think a month and a half somewhere around there yeah pretty soon maybe even sooner gonna get thick yeah it's gonna be really thick yes hell sweet satan and we love all of you on hell game oh and go uh go to patreon.com guests on the left to listen to us ad free you can also watch last stream on the left live every tuesday 5 p.m pst and uh you can watch us on netflix and also on our patreon movie stories we're working very hard on that yeah no it's a lot of fun we got a whole another series coming up there i think we're going to dive into david cronenberg it's going to be a blast it's like i could watch david cronenberg for a full month it's so good dude i have all the dvds now man i bought shivers it's good i've never seen it you're gonna love it well come see me on the road i'm gonna be in pasadena on december 3rd uh the ice house that's gonna be a lot of fun ed larson and friends oh i'm there right yeah you're coming you're hosting um september 13th st louis i'm going to be at the helium that's going to be a blast january 24th nashville january 29th and 30th rochester at the comedy at carlson and on january 31st albany new york at the funny bone we're having a blast we're doing fun a lot of these shows i'm bringing my buddy logan metz to the one in st louis danny bedrosian is going to be hitting up uh the uh rochester and albany shows oh playing the keys yeah and then i got the reformed horrors opening for me in nashville it's going to be a blast that's awesome yeah and then of course henry and i got a whole bunch of dates coming at you we just finished our leg in new york and connecticut and then we're going to columbia missouri we're going to portland maine we're going to burlington vermont and we're going to uh what's that other place that we're going to iowa city yep they said we'd never go they were going to only the best cities in this country we're going to only the best cities in this country and we're going to see you there in each one and we're going to try barbecue probably in every city so please send us what else to eat yeah rabbit is that cronenberg yes that was the last one as well yeah that was the last one i saw the brood is great all right that's a big shout out to melrose podcast thank you so much for housing our sounds here as always very very professional thank you man you guys crushed it and i'm sorry for what we said hell satan everyone okay i don't know this guy hail new york hail new york you're right it is very nice to be here it's so wonderful wonderful to be home it feels so very sweet so good so great have had nothing but delicious pizza, delicious food. I've had it all. I've had Greek food, I've had Polish food, I have pizza. It's fucking great. Hail the Astoria Seafood Market and hail Bagel Bob's. That's who I want to hail. Go to the Astoria Seafood Market. It is a unique New York experience that is absolutely delicious. The best seafood I've had outside of Florida. Oh man, I went and had drinks with my buddy Ivan on Monday night at the library. Yeah! And man, it's so. I always forget that that bathroom is squeaky clean on Mondays. By Saturday, it's bad. Remember last time we went and we saw the fight? There was an open fist fight at the library? That was pretty awesome. It's the library. It's a fucking great bar. Were they not being quiet? No. No, they weren't. People really react badly to being shushed.