Episode 6: Studying in the Pandemic with Sophie Dickinson and Carl Henningway

Hi, my name is Ellie Griffiths, I'm a language student and self-confessed worker holic. Join me over the upcoming weeks as I dive TD into an array of topics with friends, facing on the reality of student living, mental health and all things topical. So settle down, grab a cup of tea and let's get TD into this week's discussion. Hello and welcome to Episode 6 of the TD Podcast. Today I'm here with fellow students, Karl and Sophie to discuss the circumstances of uni students in the pandemic and relation to our own experiences. How are you both? Hello, doing great thanks. I mean life is getting better now so I'm excited for the world to open up properly. Yeah. Yeah around me, how are you Karl? Yeah I'm doing alright, just you know, as soon as things start getting a bit better, now exams are coming. So put a bit of a taint on it, it's like oh pubs are open but I can't go to them. Yeah, no it's pretty difficult to navigate trying to like focus on studies and then also making it for that social that we haven't had in so long. Yeah, such a mood. And a bit of a random separate name, everyone that joins the podcast, I always ask them whether they like tea, you know, fitting with the name of it. They both join tea. I don't have tea with me right now, I have a glass of water but I usually drink, close a green tea, I'm really into green tea. I actually have a cup right next to me. Oh perfect. Oh, you well in the theme of this podcast then. How do you make your cups of tea? That is the result order. No, I don't know really, I usually get my boyfriend to do it. It's not bad. I mean we've had some shockers on this podcast so far. It's really not that bad to be honest. Yeah, I kind of just rely on my boyfriend to make me a good cup of tea. I mean husband material in it. Domesticated. I do think that is probably the best way to make your tea. Someone else to do it for you. Yes. Why? Why is that? I don't know, I'm lazy. I can agree. See I like controversy put the milk in fast. I know. That is not what you do. No matter what you put in water. Why did milk? Because in my head you can see how much milk is going into it then. Because you can properly measure it from the start. Doesn't it make it cold? It's a judge on colour. Judge on colour. Yeah. No, you can't judge your cup of tea on colour. It's going to, you know, like, if you know. That is the universal way of judging tea. The colour. Yes. I agree with colour on that one. I'm sorry Ellie but you can't put in the milk. No, that is, that's a crime. I like the whole tea debate back in high school. Like we've one of the, one of the like teachers and he literally went around saying that every teacher in the school. She makes it wrong. What is she doing? Oh no. Okay, now I feel kind of bad because, you know, but I mean. I mean, you get that. Great help. Everything you did from future. Always an F. So, you're not, you don't seem like the person to put in a milk in first. I didn't expect you to say that to be completely honest. End of podcast. No, it's okay. Who taught you to make tea? Who taught you the ways of the heathen? I think I taught myself to be honest. Like, I actually know it might have been my dad. I think my dad does it wrong. Shout out to my dad's. Big up Terry. My favourite part about this is you just know it's wrong. Yeah, I mean, you know, like you know eating too much pizza is bad for you, but you still do it, you know. Yeah. It's going to vibrate some stuff. Just go vibrate with it, you know. Go flow. To start off the episode about students in the pandemic, would you firstly like to explain a little bit about yourselves as students, say kind of ways to do what you study and your current situation? So I study in Southampton, but I go to so many university and I do interior design, but last year I was doing the design foundation. And when the pandemic basically hit, I was stuck in halls the whole time. But I moved to a flat and it's much better now. I think when I was in the halls in the first lockdown it was a bit crazy. Just felt really lonely I guess. Yeah, it's a much, I mean it's good to think the people look now. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we don't get to get into that little bit more later. I thought was it like you car like, what's your situation at the moment? So I think I am both lucky and unlucky because last year I was on temporary withdrawal because of my mental health. So I wasn't actually studying at university whilst the first lockdown was hitting and everything kind of went whoosh and everything changed. I was actually at home looking after myself, like doing a bit of work as well. So it's only since, what about January that you joined back in to continue my physics degree at work at university? So things are being odd for me because a lot of people are used to the way that things are running and I joined in being like hang on, how do I do these lectures online? Wait, I'm supposed to exam online? What is this nonsense? Yeah, I can imagine that's quite challenging but I can't. I don't actually think they gave us much more advice this year about how to do online learning and things. Like that was all very much in the moment. I feel like they just told us, oh yeah, we're going to do some stuff online. And you just got to try and cope with it and it's like, okay. Yeah, like when it first hit with earth, I don't remember fully what happened now. I think it's all very strange. Like they just broke the news to us on the Friday before we were meant to be breaking up the Easter, basically then. Okay, this is the last day of terminal and it was so freaking like when completely high and no one could fabbed and what was going on and from that point onwards, they kind of half did it online, half did it and it was so chaos there. I saw it as I'm lucky in the way that I wasn't at uni and role doing my course for the confusion. I joined when a lot of departments kind of know what they're doing, the direction they go in and how to sort cope with certain things and do things remotely a bit better. Because I was even at uni, I was working, I was doing everything but you need during the path, during the first lockdown. So I've kind of joined in a bit that's more sort of certain about what it's doing. But then I'm also joining during a part that's like everyone else knows what they're doing and I have no clue. I mean, did they support you with anything? Did you find them as kind of, I don't know, any kind of guidance or anything like that or people kind of lead the way? Yeah, I mean, like I have friends that I've spoken to and asked about. My academic tutor is really, really helpful and kind of like signposting me to certain things and they did this weird, I don't say mock exam but it wasn't really a mock exam because I expected this mock exam to sort of learn how to answer questions online and then sort of, I'll blow my sort of written notes but I opened it and the first question was name all five Simpsons family members and I was like, right, this isn't a real exam. So I was like, this isn't a real exam but I think the intention was just to know how to navigate the online system rather than have some questions that I can answer and attempt to do it in the set, in the correct time with. We're just slightly annoying but just to imagine opening an exam paper you think it's going to have some horrible maths on it and being like, oh yeah, name all Simpsons family. I mean that's, I'm going to say what to create you do to like get some questions. I mean physics but also I have some interesting lectures that are funny and lovely and kind of what's the word obsessed with cartoons. I mean that's quite a funny question though, like if I opened up to that I'd be a bit confused as well. Yeah, I was slightly annoyed because I was like, okay, nice practice exam or get some questions done. but apparently not. At least I guess it's even you into it. I think it would have been a bit cruel to throw some maps that you straight away. Yeah, I think it was useful to learn how to scan notes into online and make into a PDF and upload it. I think that was probably the main point of it, which is nice to have and nice to know how to do it. So I'm slightly more prepared for exams. Yeah, that's really good. So how has your course been run this year and has it all been completely online? So for me it's essentially just been all online, even though with physics you meant to have lab time and stuff like that, with sort of the lockdown coming in and then be like, unless you do, I don't know, I think it was like medicine, you can't go in. And essentially I had to do my final year project, which required a number of people to come in and do tests. I couldn't even go into the lab and we couldn't test participants or anything. So I had to use whatever data I had from over a year ago when I was doing it. Yeah, back in how many months before that. So I had really old data and not enough of it, which was great fun. But everything else had just been online, like online lectures and a few sort of seminar type things. It was just a lecture with questions at the end. That must be really difficult, especially when I'm planning my, we did like a year abroad research project, which we're planning at the moment. And I can imagine having all this time, having planned it and having an idea of what you want to do. And then all of a sudden it's just blown out the water all my, so that must be really difficult. Yeah, like, but I mean, it's actually with, so we're like years abroad, I think that's probably one of the most ridiculous and quite difficult things to navigate. Yeah, I mean, for us we're quite lucky. I think as looks like we're going to go ahead, like I'll begin in August for a year, hopefully. Nice. Yeah. What are you off to? Germany. Woo! So exciting. Nice. But for people last year, they had the option of like a virtual year abroad, which I don't really know how that's meant to work. Wait, what? Yeah, literally. Literally a year abroad. Yeah. Like, I don't, I really don't know what that's all about. And to be honest, I hope I never find out. There's that option, or they could kind of do, say that'll be their third year. Or they could do third year and fourth year, and kind of swap it around. But then they'd be expected to reach the same level of language skills. Um, like a year early. Yeah, that's, that's, I could imagine that'd be really difficult. Like, I'm not great with languages at all, but a year's worth of knowledge in advance is a bit, um, it's a lot to remember, I guess. Yeah, like, it's been challenging. Um, how has it been, Pee, say if you've watched your course being like? My, well, it's quite annoying because the people that I was in the same class as last year, a lot of them do different degrees, because I did a foundation year. So everyone was like, who did like architecture or product design, or interior just, we're put into a group. And then like halfway through the year when the pandemic started, it was like, oh, like, bye. Um, I guess I'll never see you again. So having to like try and meet new people as well as a bit, um, I don't, I mean, I don't really know many people in my class, but yeah, it's all been like online since the first lockdown. And it's quite, I especially find it really hard because as a designer, I'm always like, looking at other people's work for inspiration and like to see like, if I'm on the right track, if you know what I mean. So not having that comparison or like seeing what other people are up to, it's really hard, yeah. Yeah, I really don't think it's worth £9,000 a year at the moment, to be honest. Definitely not. It's just not, like, I don't know. For me, I feel like university is essentially like a business. So we're paying into this business. And we're not getting what we signed up for back, which I think is really, it's really difficult to navigate for us and then I guess the heads at uni and the government as well. It's like even more annoying because we're paying to use like this equipment that we can't even use. And it's just like, well, why do I bother? Do you know what I mean? But I'm, I'm, I'm too deep now. I don't want to like just, you know, because that's just easy, too easy. Yeah. I mean, if you hadn't have done a foundation year, do you think you would have kind of started uni and then just dropped out or how do you think you would have been different? I fit honestly. So I'm in my society radio and I feel like if I wasn't in that society, I probably would have dropped out for sure. Because it's the only thing that's like keeping me sane, I guess. It's keeping me, it's like, I meet people, you know, I get along with people and it's just, it makes me happy and it makes it worth going to uni and staying at uni. How's the social aspect being for you, Carl? With like societies and stuff, it kind of, a lot of societies really tried their best to ensure that something was happening for their members. So I'm a member of the rock music society at uni and they always sort of had like a discord server in which they play games on. They, they used to run like a club night at the uni, which I used to DJ and instead of obviously doing the actual club night, I'd always do like a stream on mixed cloud, which was, which is great fun. Even then, even though it wasn't like a Zoom call, we had like the chat run in and it was all great fun. With something like the radio society, that was very similar in just the way that we had as many kind of sort of socials as we could. I don't know if sometimes we, one time we played club Penguin. We always tried to do as many different things as possible to try and keep things as good. And like the social sex that have been in charge of doing stuff like that have been ridiculously good in finding new and different ways to keep people entertained and keep the society going. Because especially with like radio, we had, there was like a, there was a lower intake of freshers and it became sort of hard to keep them engaged with things and make sure and invite them into these socials. And because especially with societies, there's all about making friends and like getting that sort of group of mates, especially in first year, like your mates are your flat. That's where you start off, but then you look to your course and then you look to your societies and with me, societies were one of my best mates. So like we, I think it's really important that the way that a lot of societies try to make sure that that kind of friend group was still there even after not being able to see people in person. Yeah, I think that's, it's very, very important. I was like VP for Gersock this year and to be honest, like my whole flat's involved with German society, so that's quite handy. And we've been doing something like every week. Like we've had things like karaoke, which was insane, but you know, it kind of works. That sounds so much fun guys. Come along, like why not? Yeah, invite me, invite me to the next one that I've come. Absolutely. It's been really, really challenging, as you say, to not only think the events and to get creative with it, but to also get the same momentum that maybe in person events would have had. Because like you say, like it's so important to have societies as that kind of network to make new friends. She's something I definitely missed out on in first year, because you know, I was there like a few months, didn't really get on with my flat, my move flats, and then by the time I settled there, like I was back home. So it's just such a horrible situation. If you spend most of this time at home doing your degree, rather than like with other students or in like student accommodation. For me, I've been quite lucky as well. In that languages at the start we're seeing as like something that had to be done in person. So it was like half and half. I'd say I had like maybe five or six hours in person a week, which is really good going. That's good. Yeah. But honestly, but at the moment it's all online. So I think from like after Christmas, after the second lockdown, it was all just moved online, which is a challenge in itself, because I took Swaddy Spanish as well as Pala. of my degree and I took that from scratch last year. So trying to learn a language from scratch, all online is just so so difficult. Yeah as I say, like I've kind of I've been with my two flatmates for pretty much most of it but then after Christmas I decided like I'll just stay at home for a couple of months because I just I didn't see the pointing coming back you know like and back now but at the time it was just stupid. So what's been best for you guys? What's been best for like your work and how you work it being at home home say like with your parents or wherever you live before you came to you or at uni or or in like uni accommodation or you're sort of flat with your mates around uni which you think was been better for you. That's such a good question. I think for me I work better at uni like I've really struggled the past year of trying to work you know from my uni accommodation or like from home it's just it felt like impossible to me. I think also just like because I have like the proper space there and like all the equipment it's so much easier to get the work done to doing it and like my uni accommodation or like at my parents or wherever apart from the uni it's a bit of a nightmare but yeah. Yeah now I'd I'd agree with Sophie on that one. I think it's so much easier to work at uni when you're kind of in that focused environment but then the fact that you can't travel anywhere or like even just knowing if you need a tea could go back home I think that's been quite difficult for me like at least mentally and it's just that lack of support and it can be quite isolated in here I think. Yeah like because I felt we're like being at uni at least even though nothing was in person I always knew that I was close to uni and even if I ever had to go into do something I could and like I don't know there's something about being at your uni accommodation that makes you think right I'm at uni now I can do work as opposed to being at home and then you're at home and it's not a level so anymore I don't think I could I don't think I could I am revising as well as I could have done at home if that makes sense. Yeah I know I agree with that I found like when I stayed back a bit after Christmas that was exactly how it was like I think I just associated my bedroom with like just having fun or like summer or and then to have to work in it she had the opposite effects of what you wanted for uni work. I feel like for me it's quite different because I've pretty much stayed in like my accommodation since the pandemic I mean I've moved I was in halls but then I moved to like my um my own flat and I've kind of just made that like my home so I've really struggled to try and like um do uni work because it's like home to me. That's an interesting point I think if I was if I was if I had the opportunity to like go back home and then like come back when I had the uni um maybe it would be different maybe I would be more productive but I really do struggle because I've made this like my home if that makes sense. Why do you live usually then is it far away or? No um so like my my parents they live just outside of Reading so it's about an hour drive from um like Reading area to Southampton. That's not too bad. I live like usually near Birmingham so for me it's like oh wow yes. I had big up the Netherlands. Literally. Literally like two and a half hours and then like 60 quid in the train so you have to really think. I live like near Ish Brighton if that makes sense. So it's like it's not that near Brighton but I know you people know Hastings. I live near Hastings. Yeah. And I go to uni-a-war which is essentially in Coventry. There's a solid three hour drive and plus on a train because living in a town you have to go from station to station to station to station to station to it's not easy. So like that kind of like in this sort of context of like going between uni and home it kind of it makes it a bigger thing so like I'm I'm either at home or I'm at uni there's less of like an option to be like I could go back to uni or I could go back to home it's either I'm one or the other. Yeah and then I literally the same as you. It's quite funny actually because it's like I live in the Midlands then go to the South and then you live in the South and go to the Midlands. I miss the Midlands. So so much happens in and around Birmingham and Coventry. I love it. I love the Midlands. Like Brighton is definitely one of my favourite places on the planet but you know I could I could fully live in the Midlands. As I was going to say I feel like it's more lively in the Midlands like I have family who's about there and they just seem like they're having a time of their life. I'm like I want to join. I don't know just like South for a bit more like quiet reserved um sometimes you know they're about there but not as much as the Midlands like no they go all out. I often talk about that with people like I found the transition from being like a Midlander to a Southern it really difficult. Like there's just so- The call just so different isn't it? Literally. Like no friends to the South but there's just some jokes or something she's saying or like the way you say it will put yourself across that people just don't get here and it's so difficult. I know exactly I know exactly what you mean. You feel me. You feel like I'm- Yeah. But I'd love to know like some stuff because I don't I don't know I don't know like it's like it's very it's very unscript isn't it? Like I kind of more experienced it going to like going to the Midlands and then being that person. The culture is so different I just love it. I just think the Midlands is the best place. It's actually like no boundaries of anything that's the thing. Like you can literally just I don't know. I literally can't even give an example. It's just I feel like in shops and things here if you just talk to someone in a shop they're just very like closed-off like almost suspicious like why are you talking to me? But the further north you go I find the more like outgoing they'll be in that kind of situation. I feel like I just have to go to the Midlands and just experience it for you know a month just to understand because yeah. I find post-districtions we can all meet up and do something in the Midlands. Oh my god yeah. Have a mad one in Brom. I'll go to snobbs if you ever been to snobbs. I've walked past it. Oh no it's so good like like the whole of my 18 was just spent in snobbs like that entire year. Well I just spend most of my time in Birmingham at gigs that's kind of that's the only reason for me to ever really need to go to Birmingham sadly because Cormoratry is the big city in me. What's Cormoratry like? Like was that? I don't know anything because we're on about like culture shock but was that difficult to adjust to you then or do you think because everyone's maybe a little bit less closed off that was just a natural easing? I don't know I think it was kind of I think it's different just because I think just for uni in general no matter where you are you've got people from all over the place. So I have a lot like I don't I think within like the place itself I didn't really have an issue. I don't like with going to uni it's just the general thing of like getting to know people learning all this stuff about other people and then you kind of eases your way into like energy if that makes sense I don't it's quite hard to describe but I love Cormoratry is a really cool place I love Cormoratry they get such a bad rep for such a nice like such a cool and interesting place. To be fair it does look really nice in Cormoratry and I would like to go there one day it's got such a bad rep it doesn't deserve it just this for Cormoratry. Just this for Cormoratry. It's like it's city of culture this year and like I've been like with the radio station I was doing some stuff around that which is which is really awesome but like Cormoratry you got you got to go Cormoratry like you got to go to the two-tone museum if you're into music C's like the origins of Scar and two-tone. Oh wow it sounds great I might just do like a little tour around the UK because I realise that I haven't been to like many places in the UK so I might do that this summer because you know I don't want to be put into another lockdown and you know oh please don't say that. Hopefully we won't get into another lockdown I don't think there'll be any more, but you know, life's too short. I don't want to like spend it indoors. Yeah, the last two. Go out and be free. Apparently they're doing like a UK tour. Like there's like a UK cruise thing. So that might be cool. Cruise? What? How'd it be so cold? Even in summer, the cold sea breeze of Scotland, like, imagine such a thing. It's just like bring a rain jacket just in case it rains. That's the thing with holiday in this country. Like, you've got to bring everything from blanket to shorts to like, I just, you know, you've got to pack your entire wardrobe for like three days away. It's like, you've got to eat your food. It's almost a ride passage to do that, though. Sorry. I was going to say you have to even be paired to bring all like the clothes that are like, it's going to be like a heat wave or you're going to have to bring like all your winter clothes because it's going to like snow. There's no in between. Like, you never know where to go. Yeah, because it's like, you never know where to go. Like, especially like, southerners, we always go on holiday to like, like, Dorsey or Cornwall or Devon. And there you get some beautiful weather, some awesome shorelines and suddenly it'll be chucking it down the next day. Okay, maybe I don't have that much of a problem. In the Midlands, it's pretty much just always just wet, cold, depressing. I don't know. It's not that bad. Oh, it really is. It's like, that's almost the charm of it though. Like, it's that depressing and that kind of, like, I don't know. I guess that's why people talk more. And like, they're just more like, community spirit. Light up the spirit, yeah. Exactly. Like, you get the nice weather down here. You don't necessarily need to like, head all together like penguins. You know what I mean? This is a solid tangent. I was going to say, where are we going with this? I probably should have said at the beginning, I do go off topic. So, you guys have to like, just a well of content, a well of content. I actually love it. So, I mean, technically then, so for you like, a first year student, so how is it differed from your expectations before going to uni? Like, you know how you have these stereotypes? If that was the best year to be live? Like, has that changed for you? And do you have any regrets? I think, well, the thing is, I joined uni later than people in my year. Like, a lot of people in my year would be in their final year right now. And like, they managed to, you know, like, have like, their proper freshes week. I mean, I did as well, but I wasn't technically a first year, so it was like, I don't know whether it's still technically a freshers, but I don't know. I just thought I'd be out drinking more, and like, you know, actually going to uni and like, doing a load of cool stuff, going on trips. And I feel like I've kind of obviously missed that, but I think I've gained like, loads of experiences within the pandemic, which sounds really weird. Like, there's a lot of stuff that I wouldn't have done if it wasn't for the pandemic. So, I feel like, I haven't really, I don't know. It's just different. Yeah, I don't think I regret it. I just, I quite like that it's different, because it's, you know, it's different to everyone else's, I guess. Yeah, I've got absolutely wasted, like, the first week of freshers, and they go to any other lectures. I guess it's like a historic, like, freshers, you know. It's quite a nice way of thinking about it. And then Carlos, like, a final year student, this isn't an ideal way for your experience to end, and definitely not what you signed up for. How has that been for you? Like, is that something that's been hard to come to terms with, or do you just think, well, that's just how it's been, and so be it. Like, I think there wasn't much more to it, and I just got sent a, just sent my diploma and all of that. I don't think I'd mind as much. I don't think I'd really mind to, like, I essentially, because it's just for me, I mean, I went to my sister's graduation, and it was just loads of people sitting in a room and walking up and getting a bit of paper. And for me, that wouldn't mean as much as it would to someone else. So for me, like, I think to a lot of people that would be genuinely, really amazing, and like, means so much to them, but for me, I'm just like, especially with the relationship I have my degree, I'd kind of want to get my two-one and get a hell out of here. But to say, because, like, with, say, with family members, my grandparents, my grandparents, like, they really, they still said to me, like, as long as we see you graduate, we'll be happy. Like, they are so determined on it, and it would mean a lot to them to see me go pick up that scroll, and it's genuinely really sad that they won't be able to see that. Are they making any plans to kind of do it a later date, or do you think it'll just be held online and, like, a virtual kind of way? I honestly have no clue, because there's, it's just, I just know I got an email saying that it was postponed. I think that's what they used. They sort of said, like, it's not this year, and they did the same with last year's, and the vice-chancellor was like, he's stew at Croftright, he's a bit of a meme now, and he said, we're going to have one hell of a party, and we're still waiting on this party. We have no idea what the party, what this means, or anything, but he promised us when hell of a party, that has become a massive mean throughout this pandemic, for the war students. Just one large co-who, that's all it's going to be. Yeah, a giant co-hoot, but like, I'm holding out for the party. It's quite cool if they did a massive festival with like, all the graduates, and then like a big presentation. Be like, start off with 2019, and like, go through the years. Wait, 2019? Yeah. I think they're there. I don't know. Oh my god, what is this pandemic done to me? I think of dates, times, years. I'm like, are we still in 2020? No, no. I'm getting older, okay. They all been days just blurring to one. Yeah, I think it's worried, right? This is another side track story. Previously, we had a, we were meant to have like a festival for like, students, you buy tickets for, and I think busted, we're headlining, or something odd along those lines, when in fact, they were doing a free show, but near to that, they were doing a show at Gdiva Festival, which is a commentary festival, and I think it's genuinely, you could just tell up and see them. And they were asking students to pay this amount for like, I can end of your festival. And so few people bought tickets. They lost so much money. I don't think Warwick will ever do a festival ever again. And yeah, it was a massive tea. There was so much shame being thrown around at this at the time, and it was so awful. And like, the issue were out of so much money. And then there was also a, they run a second one, which was like being, which were like scouting for girls were playing in that. And it was like so cool. And it was, essentially, it was like free for S U staff. And then eventually they ended up selling tickets to students, or at least I don't even know if they had to pay for it still, but like it was open to students in the end as well. And then people went to that. And I have no idea where they did this whole festival thing. And it went to absolute pot. So yeah, maybe not a festival for Warwick, because we do not have a good record with that. But it's got a bit of history, yeah. A bit of tension. A bit of tension. Yeah. Too soon. And then I guess overall, the overall question is, for your experience, then, would you pay nine grand for it? Like, how much would you put on this experience? Definitely not nine grand. No. I mean, if we can't even go in and use the resources that we paid for, nah, definitely not nine grand. I think they probably should, I guess, do it a little bit more than what you do on the open university or something like that. I think that would be a bit more fair. Because you still have access to societies and stuff, but nine grand. That's a lot. That's a lot of money. So it's such a massive debate, though, because university spend a lot of money on a lot of things, like, I mean, for one, the vice-stripe, there's extortion at paycheck, but at the same time, they run a lot of businesses, and they run expecting a certain amount of income each year. If we were to pay less, all the things like certain research wouldn't be able to happen, though, able to pay for a lot of things. So at the same time, like obviously, we've got to pay for what we receive. Because we're essentially we're paying for teaching, we're paying for to use equipment. But if we don't, then universities will go bust and things will essentially go up in the air. So it's a difficult line to walk. And the excuse that a lot of universities are saying, like you're not paying for the equipment, you're not paying for like lessons and stuff. You're paying for the degree, which I think is an awful excuse. But it's a really hard line to walk isn't it? When you've got, when like yes, we haven't received what we paid, what we should be getting for what we pay for. But the same time, not paying that would make it really difficult, would sort of put jobs of academics at risk. Yeah, it's really, I don't know what I do in a position of power at the moment, like with any position of power to kind of change the way it is for uni's and funding and stuff like that. I think I get your point, Carl. Like I agree with you on that. I think as well, like they should do a bit more. I don't know how to say it, but I feel like not necessarily the university, but I think the government, because I don't think it's the uni's fault. I think it's more of the government's fault. They haven't helped the uni's like guide them, I guess they kind of just been like, yeah, you're not allowed to open. That's it. Yeah. I think you, like I fully agree with that. More should be done to make us feel like we're not being swindled out of the money. Yeah, there is that fine line, but then for me it's like the difference between college, high school, primary school, stuff like that is that education is free of search. We've made the choice to invest money into our education like from our own pockets. And like for them to just kind of sweep us to the side is really frustrating because I just think, well, you know, we're putting money into your economy and stuff and like what are we getting back from it? You know, like we've received an email after Easter saying essentially that the government had just forgotten about us. Like they haven't given any further information about when we could go back or stuff like that. And then we've received another one a week later saying we won't be able to return to the seventh, which is the first week of exams. So it's just a mess. I'm just going to find it. Sorry. Don't you also find it ironic how a lot of people would have finished on like by the 17th and it's just like why can't we gone in sooner, but at the same time as schools and stuff. Because at the end of the day we are paying for it. I just think I think the government are very silly. Very silly. That is definitely one way of putting it isn't it? I don't want to like, you know, I'm not the mouth. Because I don't know whether to or in your podcast. I don't want to, you know, be like, oh, yeah. Scent for Bojo on the podcast. I mean to be fair, he was like, oh, I'll join the podcast and get involved. I'd be done for that. I give him a debate. That's fine. I'm here for it. Please. I doubt he did that. I literally have 32 followers on Instagram. It's not. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, invites that, Boris, if you want it. Yeah, just do it for the Cloud Bojo. It'd be cool. The main thing that annoys me is that when I came back from, so like obviously last year was first year for me this year, second year. And they're basically saying, everything's fine now because the work had been adapted, like the way of working, the style of work, whatever had been adapted to the pandemic. But the thing that frustrates me is that they neglect the fact that the students aren't adapted to a pandemic. Like we're just human beings, you know, like the work might be able to be submitted online and stuff now. But he says that we're still all right, like mentally and mentally. Yeah. Yeah. It's been really difficult and everyone's got difficult in different ways. Like my mental health has taken a massive dip. But you know, other people have lost relatives and you know, to mischeme that everyone's able to do the work at the same capacity. Now it's just ridiculous. Yeah, I agree with you on that. And like so many people are struggling you know, being in this environment, especially like international students who can't go home or like people who have lost close ones. Like I just don't understand how, you know, the government I guess don't do much and just say, oh yeah, we'll be all right because you know, I think a lot of us really struggling. Yeah, I mean, there's not really much else that someone can add just because now I agree with that it's just the fact that there's will affect so many people in so many different ways, in ways that I don't know or we don't know that we can't even fathom at this point. And the university are expecting everyone to adhere to the same stuff. Like with my, say with my exams, they last year they were like a 24 entry period where you could start the exam any time within 24 hours. But now they've changed it to you have to start at whenever the start starting time is like 9 a.m. But imagine what if you're under different times, what if your internet's dodgy? What if on certain days like people who are stuck at home dealing with their mental health, that might like within 24 hour period with the way that the pandemic is is hit so many people that being able to get there and sit down at your computer ready to do an exam at this exact point that you've been told to do it might be really difficult for some people. And it's different compared to an impersonating exam. Getting yourself out of bed to sit in front of your computer is a completely different thing. And yeah, I don't think a lot of things have made it difficult for people in ways that universities will not understand and they haven't really taken much into consideration from a lot of people. Yeah, I keep saying they need to do like a mass survey or something or you know like some way of gaining a like an actual insight into how people are feeling rather than just assuming because there's so many different variables and layers to it that they get to really uncover which I think is the worst part because you know like as a student you're going to hear all these different things like different stories from your friends and how they're coping with it and obviously as like an institution the uni aren't able to pick up on that so much because they're just hearing it from like the higher end of the scale without really consulting the bottom end. Although I did what I did get a call from I don't even know who it was. With someone associated with university genuinely just checking upon me to making sure to make sure I was doing okay which was I thought was really incredible and I've no idea why it may be maybe because of my previous sort of time out on temporary withdrawal from my mental health but I thought that was genuinely quite brilliant and I don't know how many people they did it for but I hope they did it for as many people as possible. That seems really nice. I was very confused when I had it but I sort of turned to my housemate and be like I actually got a call from the uni making sure I was doing okay. I was astounded but I was impressed you know what I mean. Yeah it's like the simple things isn't it you know like even just like checking if I'm being like are you alright like that's sometimes all it needs. I just yeah I mean I'm not necessarily having a dig at the uni at all. Like they are helpful. The help is there. Like I've turned to it. God knows how many times now and there always is there. There's always somebody to help you out. I just think it's a really difficult situation. Did you have like any no-decherant policies or like are there any policies that you had? Maybe at the start the pandemic that I've been retracted that you think actually. That would have been good now. I feel like obviously when I was in halls they basically were like oh you don't have to pay for like rent if you move back which was pretty good. Unfortunately like that company is gone. They were taken over by another company so yeah. And I know a lot of people staying in them halls don't have that now, because it's all under a new management. But I think, yeah, I was quite lucky with that. Yeah, I think we had, we had some, it wasn't for my department, it wasn't for physics, but there was kind of like a thing being like, all essays, due in at this, within this time period can have an extra few days or something along those lines. And physics will like, this doesn't apply to you, you still do your funny report on this day. And then it turned out at the end they were like, so many people are asking for extra time, so here's a couple of extra days for everyone. But there was, I think, lastly, there was no detriment policy in which the people couldn't get less than kind of how they were doing throughout the year, which is great. I thought that was a really good idea, because pre-lockdown and everything, they would have been working at like a regular level. So it would be, it's a great idea to take that and say you can't do any worse than you was, than you were, which is a really good idea, but this year they scrapped it. Like I understand, to a certain extent, because they sort of said that it's impossible for us to judge how you've been doing, when for this entire year we have been in lockdown and dealing with the pandemic. So there's nothing from this year that they could use to find the no-dechantment policy from which we could do no worse from. But they did sort of, they said that I would take a more personal approach, but I've heard nothing from them. I've heard sort of no way of like specific mitigating circumstances from things to do with the pandemic or things to make it like a way to sort of applying for certain things like with mitigating circumstances, any easier than they had been before for any other reason than things that you can speak to your doctor about. And I think there are just a, there are a number of things that are different now that you should be able to sort of claim has made things more difficult for you and make it easier to sort of tell your department that and for them to sort of allow like extra help or extra sort of concession within exams or extra things to make things easier for you. But they've not really done that and they've just kind of, it's like they've resided to being like this is the way it's done, this is the way we're doing it and like you're all going to have to deal with it. Very difficult for them, like I can definitely see their standpoint and how that's, that's hard for them to kind of come up with a solution. And then it was to say our standpoint and then I had to be honest, the only standpoint I don't really see is the government's like, yeah, you know, like I know they've got 101 things to do but if you've sent high school kids back, primary school kids back, college kids back, like why aren't we being sent back? It feels like you're almost just screaming all the time, like for help for various things, like you know, I'm constantly hearing that just lecturers complain about certain aspects of the pandemic, like we're complaining and then our voices just aren't being heard and it's really frustrating. Just the government don't care about us so they don't know, like that's the side of it. They really seem that way. And I think it's quite crazy as well how you know, we're like a lot of us are like doing key worker jobs or you know, how can you can contribute? That's it. I just can't say it though. I can't say it. This is what the pandemic's done to me, you know, it's just maybe muddle up my words that I can't even speak normally but yeah, a lot of us have got like key like key worker jobs so like working in supermarkets are like helping out in like, like some people, you know, working in hospitals and all of that and the government always point their finger at us when someone goes wrong and then when we ask for help they don't help us and it's just like, well, great, thanks. So there's infinite ways to complain about what the government has done to screw students over the last two years. So I think we need a whole series of podcasts and even order to touch upon everything that they've done to make life difficult for us over the last two years. So I think that's something that really doesn't it, you know, like we've been talking for over an hour now and like we could talk for another hour about it and it's just, oh my goodness we have as well. I know. Time flies when you haven't burnt. Or talking about how the pandemic has screwed you. So you guys, yeah. Just kidding, I'm having fun, I promise. Dean, what breaks do you best? Moning about life. It's great. Yeah, I mean, do you guys have any final comments, you know, maybe just to wrap up your general vibe of how you've been treated, how you feel about the pandemic being the student? I have high hopes that it will get better and hopefully the next couple years will be worth it. I won't drop out. Yeah, I just, I don't know, I hope students get hurt because we deserve it because we've been just, you know, forgotten about really the whole time. I just hope that not just, I mean, this works for universities but it works for everyone that a lot has been learnt from everything that's happened over the course of the pandemic, not just with kind of like how things run or the way to make things sustainable, but just how to treat each other and how to cope with sort of shared, like sort of shared horror if one of a better phrase and like, because I, for a lot of the time, I think a lot of universities didn't care about their students and I think this hopefully is, is giving it a way of learning what students need to do well, what students need to feel better and like, and together to give students a better environment to work on that. Absolutely, I think there's a great, great thing to take out the pandemic, especially like, it's been so negative, like it's nice to take a positive out of it, like, get that positive spin. So yeah, thanks for joining me today, like it's been really lovely to talk to you both and yeah, I'll see you in two weeks time from another episode. And good bye. Thank you for listening to TD, tune in on Tuesdays to your Fortnite effects of milk in the week magic, putting the tea in your Tuesday. Bye.