Episode 6: Deconstructing the "Perfect Catholic" - Cardinal Catholic Conversations

Unpacking the 'Perfect Catholic' Identity and Inadequacy Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Cardinal Catholic Conversations. This is Leslie, your host, and I'm so excited to welcome you back once again to our podcast. It is officially going to be week eight. Well, by the time this podcast comes out, it's going to be week 8. And I literally cannot believe that winter quarter has gone by so fast. I feel like I've been on the grind for like forever and I'm actually so excited to like go home and spend time with family. But we needed to have another podcast to air because we're doing it every two weeks. So I'm so excited to welcome you guys back Today. We are here with Cassie. Cassie, it's great to have you. Speaker 2 I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for having. Speaker 1 Me wait guys, we're going to have a great time and it's going to be very, very conversational because since it's week 8, I literally guys I've been running around 24/7 and there's so much going on and you'll get to know Cassie in a little bit and get to know her story, but you will definitely start to see that she's also very, very busy with stuff and so we're a. Speaker 2 Little off the cuff today. Speaker 1 Today it's gonna be a very, very, very real and, like, true podcast and like, no outline at all whatsoever. I didn't create an outline, guys, because I have just been so busy. But I told Cassie I was like, you know what, You and I talk on the daily, like 24/7 all the time. Yeah. So we can just have people just listen to our conversation and, you know, whatever. Speaker 2 Happened terrifying. I am not the person to do this for. Speaker 1 No, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. We're gonna have a great time and I really do think that everyone's gonna benefit off of your podcast. We're gonna be Speaking of today about just being Catholic. But like I feel like it's a common theme or common thing that a lot of people feel but not really talk about, which is like sometimes feeling like super Catholic, like, Oh my gosh, I'm on top of my prayer life. I'm on top of everything. I'm guiding others. I feel like I'm doing really well. I'm close to God. But then there's times where it's like, Oh my gosh, like I'm not really praying that much or Oh my gosh, like these people are doing this, this and this, and I'm not even doing that. Who am I guiding? I don't feel close to God. Am I even good enough to like be Catholic? Maybe is only going to Sunday Mass enough? Like I see other people doing a bunch of different things, like, am I not doing good enough? Well, today we're going to be addressing all of that. Cassie is the perfect person. She's very, very transparent with who she is and just her journey. And so I'm very excited to get going on this whole conversation about speaking up to her about this. From Public School to Catholic Ministry: Kassy's High School Faith Journey But I guess could you kind of give us a little bit of background about yourself in just regards to like how you were raised Catholic? And then we can kind of get into maybe when you first started to like feel these emotions that we typically feel, but just kind of give us a back story and maybe like you can talk about your background. I know you were a long alongside a lot of other Catholics, so maybe how you felt compared to other, you know, you can go all into it. Yeah. Let's start off first with maybe a little bit like where you got where is it a cradle Catholic thing or how did it? How did it? Speaker 2 Start. Wow, OK, I am from San Diego and so go some Alex. Speaker 1 Morgan is from, you know, soccer player. Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with her. Speaker 2 All thoughts just left my brain. This is awesome. It's OK. No, I wanted to come on here and talk about some of like different conversations that often don't happen, mostly because it's a very real thing. But I started my faith journey. I was raised Catholic, went to church every week with my parents on Sunday. Like my mom was raised Catholic as well. My dad was born into the church, kind of fell away, got back, did OCIA, all that stuff. My brother's Catholic as well. All the all the things we're very like Sunday Catholics. And for a majority of my like meaningful education, I went to public school. And this isn't like a comment on public school or anything, but like, I don't think it's like the best place to like foster your faith as like a child, obviously. And so it was like, OK, like a faith, like faith is something I do on Sundays. Faith is something that I care about on Sundays. Like, I'll pray before dinner. Yeah, my mom tells me to pray before bed. Cool. Like, who is God? Right. Right. Don't really know. Yeah. But it wasn't something that was super obvious to me that I needed to figure out. And then going into high school, I switched to our local Catholic school, which is the best thing ever. I started out Cathedral Catholic. We love you. And I for the first time realized like what being Catholic really was, especially growing up, becoming an adult, like what that would look like, who that would mean I was, etcetera. And at first it was like, OK, religion class is really boring. Like I know all the answers. Like I know who Jesus is. Like whatever. Speaker 1 Did you feel behind compared to like other people that were raised in like Catholic schools or? Speaker 2 It was definitely a weird vibe because I think the the most obvious was like, they were like feeder schooled into this Catholic school and like, I'm I know four people from like my public like my public middle school. And it's like these kids did not get their bathrooms shut down because like people were doing whatever in there. You know what I mean? Like they don't know that's not a thing in their lives. No. And so I think that was the biggest one where it's not necessarily like, Oh, like you're super knowledgeable about the church. Like everyone thought religion class was like boring and like how many apostles were there? OK, bro. Like, and so I didn't feel behind in that way. I fell behind in like the connections you make and sort of like the bubble that you of when you're in Catholic school. And so I go to Catholic school and I love it and it's great, but I didn't, I sort of felt like the public school kid for a while and I didn't really dive into my faith until my junior year of high school. We had these two Milas Christie priests, which is now a suppressed order by the Vatican, which is really interesting. That was a, that was a dynamic, but these two amazing priests, one Father Matthew, who I love dearly, he is my spiritual director. So and he and I formed like a really special connection and I would go into his office like junior year and be like, why do we believe these things? Like, why do we not necessarily have like the most obvious support for like LGBTQ community, right? Why do we not support like abortion, like like questions that I now consider pretty obvious. But to me back then, like it was not, it was like 2022. It's like we're still coming out of COVID. We're still coming out of like all the political situations around that. It was very tensions and I was confused like why the Catholic Church wasn't updating things. Yeah, yeah. You know, cuz like we're pretty constant, like 2000 years, like not much has changed. But. And so I came from it very intellectually being like, why like. And he answered them. That's great. Very well. And like I challenged him a lot and he's like this a great conversation to have. And so I feel like that was really like, OK, wow. Like this is something that's real. This is something that is like, unapologetically like, unmoving. And that was something that was not obvious to me as like a 15 year old, like stupid kid, you know? So I don't know, like, I was so influenced by like, the world around me and Catholicism, like, showed me like a constant. And I think that I really kind of dove into it. Speaker 1 And like, after these conversations, did you see your prayer life like just going up and like, yeah, just maybe were you going to Mass daily Mass more or like what was was there any change? Speaker 2 Yeah, there was a lot of change. Like in my school life mostly, I mean, I've I was alter serving weekly from like 7th grade. So yeah, thorough for over here Nova. And so I did that like stayed consistent with it. I was confirmed at that point, but like I never touched like a Bible really. I like started doing these campus ministry classes where we would like lead retreats and like, and so I sort of just like dove into it. I like started the Bible. I was like, OK, like we're doing this like leading retreats, like being being purposeful. And this is something I'm going to take seriously and this is something I'm going to invest in so that I and other people get something out of it. And it really like brought returns like to my life, to like my school life. A lot of people would like say how I cuz like we have a senior retreat where we like share a lot and we're very, very vulnerable with our peers. And I got comments afterwards, like what you said, like helped me be vulnerable or like what you said like made me take this seriously and like, that meant so much to me. And so like by the end of senior year, I was like teaching a CCD class for first. Speaker 1 Graders keep life. Speaker 2 I was alter serving. I like let all these like retreats and stuff like did the prayer at graduation. Like I'm just like, I'm just like, Oh my gosh, like am I Catholic or what? Like, you know, And so that's like my like my little climax for you. I was on the end of your seat. Navigating College Admissions and Learning Humility in Faith But so up until like high school, I was feeling good. Speaker 1 Wait, that's like crazy. Because like I feel like it's a common trend with like when you're like younger, it's like, I'm just going to do what my parents are saying, like let's go to Sunday Mass. Like I remember when I was little being like, Oh my gosh, this is feeling like an hour felt like forever. Yes. I was like, why do we have to go? Oh my gosh. And then it's like, wait, I think for me similarly, like my junior year, it was just like a peak high and like very similar to you. But I think that knowing you, I know you were putting these other high schoolers on like fire with like you're like vulnerability and just like, dude, you are. When I tell you Cassie's the most real person you will ever meet. But like in a great way. Like I really do admire that about her. And like something that I like, really love about people. It's just like, let's just be real. Like, let's not hide. Like I think what's the thing at Stanford where it's like says what's it called, where it's like everyone's putting up a front that like, we're all doing so good, so good. Speaker 2 Yeah, like imposter syndrome. Speaker 1 Yeah, imposter syndrome. And like, in reality, literally you're struggling and you're just like, I don't know. And I'm just like, guys, let's get over this. Literally let's get over this. And I think it's the same with like being Catholic. Like everyone's like, oh, no. Like we're doing so good, so good when in the background you're like, I'm lucky struggling. Yeah. So it's like you are definitely the type of person that's like, guys, no, no, no, I'm struggling or guys, we're not doing good. Speaker 2 I'm that girl that shows up to discussion section and the guys like does anybody have any questions? My hand is up. My hand is up. Speaker 1 And you're like the person everyone like, oh, thank God. Thank God we needed to ask the questions. Oh, man, that's great. Oh my gosh. OK, so you're on fire. I'm sure this really, like, LED you through college app season as well, right? Like, yeah, did it has rough. Yeah, I'm sure like influenced like how you felt about it all and just like allowed you to lean towards God during this time, which I'm sure is stressful. Speaker 2 It was really hard, yeah. I did not have, like, the Stanford application season that people that come to this school do. Really. Yeah, I'm not gonna make the joke, but you don't. I'm gonna make. I do not have options. No, but. Speaker 1 No, let me just clarify. When I said I had options, I was like not meaning it in a bratty way. I just was like, I didn't even think before I said it. I just was like. And then I was like, guys, I sound like such a brat. Oh my gosh. I did not mean it in that way, but no but I. Speaker 2 Defer, defer, Defer weight losing. Weight losing. Speaker 1 How many schools did you apply for? Speaker 2 I applied to 16, OK, I got into, but where I got wait listed at 5:00 and I, I mean, I screwed myself over. I was like, we're applying to all the Ivs and like Ohio State is like, what is that? That's where I'll go. I'll be so excited to go to Ohio State. It's like, why would if I apply to all these schools I would get into, I'll just go all that. And so I, like, I'm staring at my computer in the spring, like, OK, wow, I could either go to UNC or Notre Dame and everywhere else a wait list. Speaker 1 Yeah, and Stanford's late in releasing decisions, so you didn't. Speaker 2 Know no, I got wait listed really. Yeah, plot twist, Yeah. Yeah. So I go on my spring break trip and OK, the only thing that got me through Ivy Day, I watched Rudy, which I don't know if you guys know is like a football movie about like a Notre Dame football player. So I was convinced like I'm not gonna get in. I don't have to worry about it cuz I've I'm going to Rudy's school like Notre Dame, like I'm Catholic like I'm going, I go on my spring break trip. We go to UNC first terrible decision because there's no way you're going to from North Carolina to Indiana and like, oh heck yeah. From Indiana. I loved UNC shout out you and see, I love it there. It's so beautiful. They have a great Newman Center. So and then you go to Indiana and it's like, wow, this is definitely a place that like people go. I'm sure I was not feeling it. And I was like, why am I not feeling it? Like I should be feeling it. This like the Catholic thing to do. Like I should come here. Like I'll meet my Catholic husband and like call it a day. Like let's get moving here. It's like spring by spring, let's do it. And so that really threw my life for a loop because it's like, not only did I not get into like the school of my dreams, I got waitlisted. Like what is God trying to tell me to do right now, right? I don't end up going to like a school I thought I would go to at all, like UNC. I'm now, I now feel so behind. I'm like out of state. I need to find a roommate. I the last thing I want to do is like post on one of those Instagrams. It's like text me if you want to be a roommate like that is my definition. Speaker 1 Of wait, I know so many people that do that and I'm just like, oh. Speaker 2 My God, Oh my gosh, soldiers out there, soldiers, they're soldiers. And so I'm like, wow, like what is God trying to point me towards? And why do I feel so defeated? Like why do I feel like I worked so hard and it didn't UNC as a top 25 school guys, like it's a great school. It has an 8% out of. Speaker 1 You were just being hard down yourself. Speaker 2 So hard on myself. Were you still like? Speaker 1 Relying on God during this time, or was it kind of like going down? Because I feel like sometimes during these times of like, feeling defeated, you're like, yeah, you can start to doubt God and like God, what is going on? Speaker 2 And it's so funny because before I came here, you know how everyone's like, just like rely on God. Like no one in my life was saying that to me. Really. Like the priest was, Father Matthew was, but my parents were like, it'll work out. Like UNC is great. Like UNC is great. Like just go to UNC. And I was like, OK, cool. Like whoa. And so I'm sitting there like trying to be excited about UNC, but Stanford is just like the one sitting there. And then I get an e-mail in mid June, like June 8th or something. And we're like, Oh my gosh, like there's an update in my portal. We open it. Dude, you've been put on the extended wait list. I can't believe I haven't told you this story. No. Speaker 1 I have yeah, guys, this is raw me like my head, my hand is on my head right now like no this. Speaker 2 Is my favorite story. Yeah. And so I'm like, oh wow, they literally emailed me to be like, Congrats, you're still in the same exact position you would have been if we didn't let you know anything at all. Cool. So that was awesome. And so like end of June, I get in. Best day of my life. Completely life changing experience and I honestly like forgot to thank God. No way. Thinking about it now, like I was so excited and so happy, but like, I was so excited and so happy, but I wasn't like, Oh my gosh, like, yeah, Fernando Mendoza needs to. Speaker 1 Teach you? Oh, no. Girls. Yeah. You know what we're talking about? Yeah. Speaker 2 No, but I was so excited and so happy. But like, I, I still think at that point in my life, like I was, I felt very Catholic and like I felt very high, but I wasn't humble in being like this is this was God's doing. Like I had very little to do with this. Like this was him. You know what I mean? Feeling Alone: Questioning Faith and Finding God at Stanford So well, I've never thought of it in that way. Actually. That was a good realization. Thank you for getting me in here. Holy wow. Speaker 1 Dude, OK, we are in Stanford Cardinals. We are Kier. Speaker 2 He's like, keep moving, no? Speaker 1 No, no, I'm just like trying to like, OK, so you're on fire. Oh my gosh, going great. You come to Stanford. I know usually like I feel like a common theme with a lot of podcasts and like that I've done with like Alex and Isabella and just in general with like talking to people at at Stanford. It's like you come to freshman year and it's hard. It is hard, like especially if you're like from far away, like if you're not around the area, like, I don't know, I feel even if you are from California, like if you are like San Diego away, like it just feels so different. And regardless, it does feel like you're in another state, like you're out of state almost. Yeah. So maybe you didn't have that difficult of a experience. Also, she's very she like Miss Miss Hollywood knows like everyone and their moms here. So maybe you had a great. Speaker 2 Experience, though, I think it was because I was aimless. Yeah, I just showed up and I was like, OK, we're doing this. No plan, no plan. I started working for the football team like like October 1, like of like week after NSO. And so I didn't go to like club things. I didn't like apply for anything. Speaker 1 That takes up a lot of your time. Oh my gosh. Speaker 2 Like, yeah, but I think it was sort of just like we're doing this thing now. And like, I had my frost dorm, I lived in Sodo, so it was in Wilbur. Like good small dorm community, but it wasn't like, Oh my gosh, like, let me go to the fair and find Catholic. Yeah, I was like, OK, we're at football practice. Like this is my life for like we're. Speaker 1 Used to the We're going to Mass every Sunday, right? Speaker 2 Every Sunday. Yeah, great. But like also this was I went to a Catholic Church like I'm not used to like no pews. Speaker 1 I'm not used to like, no. Speaker 2 I'm not used to like no Tabernacle inside so different and I go to like ultra sewer training. They're like we keep the communion in like the basement. I know and I'm like, no. Speaker 1 Wait, you weren't doing ultra server training? Wait. Yeah. Why didn't you continue? Okay guys, it's okay. I literally did alter alter server training as well and I don't. Speaker 2 Do it right. Yeah, either so and so. I honestly did it to like test out the church and be like, is this somewhere I want to be? And I wasn't sure it was. And so I was biking like how far is Saint Raymond's? Like 2 miles, 4 miles. Speaker 1 Something like that. Speaker 2 Yeah, I was biking there every Sunday. It was, it was. I was like. Speaker 1 Wait, I'm not gonna lie. My freshman year, I did the same thing. I biked to like this other church because I was just like, I it felt so different here. And I was just like, I need something to feel like home. Yeah, that's the. Speaker 2 One I don't know anyone and then you go and everyone's like your age or like 80 and you're literally like this is terrifying and it's like I I wanted to get off campus like see real world like see families right, right. So that was nice, but but it was isolating. Oh yeah. And it made me feel like I'm the only Catholic in a 10 mile radius. Yeah, like whatever, which was dramatic. Like I'm not that different. Whatever. And so this was like of a fading away, right? Because also I couldn't find Catholics. I couldn't, I didn't have anyone to go to church with on Sunday. And so I was relying on people I care about dearly, but who I disagree with a lot, like on very basic things, like, is God real? And so I was having this double crisis of like, I don't know anyone at church. Like I'm biking by myself off campus, like showing up sweaty, whatever. Speaker 1 Tell me about it. Speaker 2 And then I come back and people are like, why would you bother with that? If like religion isn't real, Like wow like why did I do that myself? Speaker 1 Oh, I would have crushed out and. Speaker 2 So it was, it was hard and like I was coming from such as this like peak moment where it like from high school where I was like, I'm really into it. Like I have this like rhythm going whatever. And then it's like, turn around. God is testing you like very intensely. Oh yeah. Like this is something you have to choose like that your mom's not like driving you to church anymore. Literally like you figure it out. Speaker 1 You have to figure it out, yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah. And so I talked to my spiritual director and I had a very real conversation. I was like, wow, like this is real, right? Like this is real. Like this is all the things, like the thing you dedicated your life to. Real, right? Like, just checking because it wasn't obvious to me anymore. For the first time in my life, I genuinely felt like the baseline of like, even if I don't believe what you believe, I respect that you believe and I support that. And I'm not gonna be here. Like, why do you think Jesus is real? Like, that was being tested for the first time, and I think it's been really valuable now. But like, in that moment, it was really hard to feel alone. And then to feel like in the moment, you need God most. Like, you're not sure if there's someone to even rely on at all. Yeah. So this whole like. Speaker 1 What did he tell you? Like, like, what was his, like, main? Like, was he concerned? Was he like, Oh my gosh, like this girl that like, was super involved over here is like, starting to get, like, questions. Yeah. Speaker 2 I think we came at it from like a very logical perspective of like, and he wasn't like, oh, I understand. And he was like, no, like God when you're close to God, like he doesn't need to, like, throw you these little candies anymore. Yeah. Like, you need to, like, show up for yourself. I love him. He's. Speaker 1 So catered towards you too. Speaker 2 Yeah, he's so me, like we had this conversation many times. So he's very patient with me because I because I feel like in high school too, and like, you know this now too. But like everyone's like, Oh my gosh, I feel so close to God. God showed up for me in this way. And I'm like, I don't have this like huge concrete. Speaker 1 Event to God moment. Speaker 2 Yeah, Like, whoa. Like hello. Like where's my love and support? Hello. And my spiritual character is like, bro, like calm down. Like are you going to try and like impress someone that like, you know, is going to show up every Sunday or like, show up for you? And like, like, who do you perform for? It's like the people that you need to perform for. Like he doesn't feel the need to perform for you. So like, take that as a compliment in a way. And so that was really helpful. And I decided, like, even if I'm struggling with this, I'm gonna go to church. Like I'm still gonna go. And I started going to mum too, because I was lazy and. Speaker 1 That, unfortunately, was a case for me too. Speaker 2 And there was this boy I thought was cute. And so I was like, what's up? From Isolation to Connection: Finding Catholic Community at Stanford No, no, no. Yeah. Speaker 1 That'll do it. Speaker 2 And so I started like going to the 9:00 PM and then I remember like I got invited to women's small group and that just like changed everything very fast. Like went like, I think this was like late fall quarter, early winter quarter at some point or whatever where it was just like I'm relying on non Catholics. I'm relying on myself and or I'm relying on people that I know are Catholic, but like aren't Catholic when they leave the church. And so it's just like I felt like spiritually very lone. And so when I got invited to like women's small group, I was just like catapulted into like where I needed to be. And I think that that was God like performing for me a little bit. Yeah. Speaker 1 That's great. Wow. Wow. How was your experience like? Like when you came first to like women's small group, did you feel like scared? Were you like? Speaker 2 I was OK. It's so funny knowing everyone now, but I was like, they're probably a bunch of like, yeah, they're probably a bunch of like fake Catholics. So like, blah, blah, blah. And then I go and it's like Rhiannon and, and like Isabella and like obviously like, even if you don't know those names, like they're very Catholic, I don't know them. So it's like, oh, what's the vibe? They are like, yeah, but they didn't go to Catholic school and blah, blah. Now they're way better Catholic than I am and I. Speaker 1 Don't say that. Speaker 2 OK. And so I remember, like, after her first women's small group, Hannah asked me to, like, a coffee chat. Yeah, like, had coffee with her. And she's like, she like, opened this whole new world of, like, Stanford to me where it's like, people here, like, agree with you. People here believe in God. Speaker 1 Like Oh yeah, for sure. Speaker 2 People here, like, are serious about their faith. People here are going to like TLM, Like, no, dude, they go crazy. Yeah. So that was like, OK, wow. Like, I don't have to rely on these people that aren't good for me. Like, I don't have to, like, rely on the Catholics that, like Lee Bass and forget that they're, like, like, there is something for me here. And then it just all sort of like snowballed down into like where I am now. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Wow. I think it's also like important to like, I guess recognize or acknowledge that like as Catholics, like, yeah, we want to be surrounded about around other Catholics that are going to be able to like bring fruition to like our own, like faith and like allow us to like, I don't know if you and I are hanging out and I'm like, hey, Cassie, like I'm struggling with this, then you can be like, hey, like you can do this or I can help you or whatever. You know, I woke up this, it's gone. Speaker 2 I distracted her. I'm so sorry. She was going to say something really profound. I can vouch. I don't know what it was either. Speaker 1 But I can vouch, essentially what I'm trying to say is like, it's nice to have other Catholic friends because they can help you and like, they can like provide you with other resources or maybe just like pray for you and like understand where you're coming from. Like if I'm struggling with a class and like they're saying something super against the Catholic Church in, in terms of like faith or like values and stuff, it's really nice to have these Catholic friends and stuff. But also I think it's valuable to surround yourself with people that aren't Catholic. Like it shouldn't be this mindset of I'm only gonna surround myself around Catholic people because although there are friends that I have that like we have different views about the stuff, different values. I do think it's very valuable to like interact with these people and also like people are more than just like what their beliefs are. Like, I don't care if you are what is it like pro LGBTQ or I don't care if you're pro-choice or I don't care if you're in between. I don't care if like we shouldn't care about these other things and like base someone's value or who they are as a person based on these things because everyone has like different experiences, different traumas, different types of things, ways they see the world. And it's just like at the end of the day, we just need to recognize that like every person is just like a human being. Even if you're not Catholic, every person is a human being. But like if you are Catholic, like every person is made in the image of God and is God's child. And like, let's treat each other like such because like Jesus wasn't like treating, I don't know, a Sinner differently than he, like, I don't know, than one of his apostles or something like that. And just like, let's translate that into our own lives and like be respectful. And like when we do disagree, let's disagree respectfully. And let's also like see where we're coming from because like for any topic, I feel like you can be like, at some point be like, I see where you're coming from. Like I really do. But I see it this way. So it's just like putting this into like our friendships. Like, let's not always think that only being around Catholics is like the best plan of action. But in your case, like, you didn't have any of that. So you were seeking some of it because like, you were only surrounded around these people that you were trying to find this person to connect with. And like, in this case, it was women small group, which for me was also women small group. So funny. I feel like a lot of people, it's like a small group, which is so funny because it's like just a group that you don't feel like it's only one-on-one type of vibe. And then you can start getting invited to other things. And I do remember that being the same case for me where it was just like, you come to this group setting and then you start getting invited to stuff, but you still have your life outside of being like with the Catholic community, which is great. Speaker 2 And also, it's not like a kickback where it's like, OK, I have to go be social. It's like I can sit at a conference room. Speaker 1 And like, be quiet. Literally just say like I really resonated with that and done like that's it. And like, there's no forcing you to like give a whole apologetic seminar or something, you know? Well, that's great. Speaker 2 No, I really I love what you said because the friends that I have that aren't Catholic, like they touch like parts of my person that are more secular and like we love football or we love like musical theatre, we listen to the same music or like blah blah blah that we agree on that isn't faith related. But the point that you made of like feeling alone. Faith is one of those things for me where I feel like I'm home and I felt like I was in my home alone and everyone was like, tee peeing my house every day. And it's like, what the heck. Yeah, yeah, Hello. No, yeah. And it's like, and then they're turning around and like, we're supposed to be friends. Leading While Learning: The Imposter Syndrome of Catholic Leadership Yeah. And it's like, we are friends, but I just need someone else in that house with me exactly. To be like, we can do, we can clean it up together. They're just going to do it anymore. So yeah, going to a small group was very helpful. So we had our little depth, we had our very deep, deep depth. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. After that so that well you went to women's small group around what you said like. Speaker 2 Like winter quarter probably, like early or late early probably. So you were you going consistently then? I try. And also Isabella was like keeping me accountable and like, girl, I know you're gonna be here, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's like hard. It's on what, 7:00 PM on a Wednesday like. Speaker 1 You know it's a commitment. Speaker 2 For yeah, it's like, OK, yeah. But like, I, I really did like need it. And like, I think that that was clear. And so I'm very happy that like, I was told to come and that was nice. And then all of a sudden it's like, Oh my gosh, Isabella has told me such, so much value. Oh my gosh, Isabella. I'm like, oh, wow. Like oh wow. Speaker 1 I'm yeah, 'cause for context, guys, they went to the same high school. And so I remember like Isabella, one of the first things she would say was like, guys, we went to school together, like guys meet her, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so we were all just like, who is this girl? Like who is? And you would just come up and you, Cassie's just like a very confident, what's up guys like, hey, And I was just like, whoa, who is this girl? Yeah, it was just like, wow. Cuz like you would ask her a question and she was like, I don't know if you're shy when you first meet people, but you didn't seem shy. Maybe you felt shy, but you did not seem shy. You were very like, Yep, this is what? Like whatever you had to say or whatever. Speaker 2 Isabella started me out as it girl and then I stayed it. Speaker 1 Watch out no. Speaker 2 But yeah, no, I'm not shy. I'm not. Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh my gosh. OK, so after this, like, did you feel like you were still kind of like bad, like, I don't know, like we're mentioning like how you sometimes don't feel Catholic enough? Did you still feel this way even while you were going to women's small group? Or maybe you were like going up and down. Speaker 2 I think I was, it was definitely a roller coaster. It was definitely a roller coaster because it goes up and down in little ways too. Yeah, it's like very subtle sometimes. It's like those big moments where you feel really alone and some and or like the opposite of that, where it's like you're standing up in front of your peers doing prayer graduation. That was awesome. I think about that highlight people peak like I, I, I, I highlight it because I didn't get to do the speech or graduation like Isabella did, But I take my prayer and I I I'm happy with it. Got to do the last seat. Joseph, our patron pretty for us. So who needs a speech? Mine was pre written. What was I saying? Speaker 1 About highs. Speaker 2 And lows, yeah, we had our big highs, we had our big lows. But then it's like little ones, like, OK, I'm still sitting by myself or like, OK, like God seems kind of quiet today or oh, like I'm feeling good. Like I prayed extra long tonight or oh, like I made sure to like do that. Like do like, bless my food, like do the sign of the cross in front of my secular friends. Yeah. Things like that where it's like, OK, like I'm having my little wins. I'm having my little losses and it's OK. Like it's very OK. Yeah. And as much as it sucks to like not be so close to God all the time, like binging the chosen, like this is all that matters. Like it's, it's, it's helpful for me. I think I've come to appreciate them because when I'm sort of like in my lows, I can't wait to get back to a high or it's like, what am I? I've recognized it and I'm like, what am I supposed to learn this time? You know what I mean? And like, I can't constantly, as much as it would be awesome, I can't constantly be close to God. Yeah. Speaker 1 You can always feel that high, like sometimes God's going to be so quiet and you feel like that's a low, but if anything for God, sometimes that's a high for you. Like this is your time to listen and really listen to what you have to say or like this is a time for you to navigate this on your own and like really rely on me because I'm not you don't feel me speaking to you, which I like, I've had to learn too in regards to like, Dang, like I really don't feel like I'm close to God. And like my spiritual director always tells me like you don't always have to feel like you're close to God to be like close to God. And so it's just like, just like listen and like do everything you're supposed to do, but stay consistent, stay consistent, be there every day. And that has like, really helped me and like, easier so than done for some people for sure. Like, yeah, you're just like, Oh my gosh. Like I don't like, sometimes I'm like, God, like talk to me. Please. Literally tell me anything. I will do it right now. I will do it right now. But OK, yeah. Speaker 2 Do you know that meme of like this is Job and like a meme where it's like the dark cavern. This is really this is so neat, but it's like this like dark cavernous area. But then there's this like little disco, like going off in like in the corner. That's like where it's like, I think it's very inspiring because it's like, no matter how sucky it gets, like you still talk to God. Speaker 1 Oh, for sure. Speaker 2 You still talk to? Speaker 1 God, Oh yeah, show up every day. Speaker 2 Show up every day. Yeah. And like, I think that in my little lows since I've come to college, like I've stopped just been like, OK, I'll wait until I have a high again. And now it's like, no, we're we're showing up every day. Yeah, yeah. So that's we needed the lows. Speaker 1 Oh, for sure, for sure. I agree. I agree, but is there so I I feel like you were like consistent with small group and then I know spring comes around and that's the time to apply for the leadership team. Speaker 2 And how did we end up? Speaker 1 Yeah, this is how we ended up. Speaker 2 Here I've never been on like OU third floor and Father Dominic was like, have you ever been to our office? I said no while ago. Where is it? Speaker 1 A lot of people don't know about third floor. It's it's so. Speaker 2 Fun hang out guys. It's. Speaker 1 Literally so funny on the elevator it has three and everyone's like I only thought there was two floors. Yes. Speaker 2 I literally brought people up here last quarter, and they're like, I did not know this existed. Yeah. I'm like, where do you think I'm hiding? Like, all of the time. It's so great. I got fed up here. You need to come. Oh, come. Sure. So many snacks. So many snacks. The same characters get the snacks all the time. I need. I need other people. I need the other suggestions. I know you're hungry. Oh, for sure. You know how many leftover cookies we had after Mardi Gras? Come, come hang out. Yeah. Papa Noodles. I was fat during. Where? What are we talking about? Yeah, we're talking about applications. We're talking about. Yes. OK. So I applied to be leadership. Yeah. And I was like, OK, Isabella's doing it. So it's like, fine. Isabella told me to do it. Probably. Yeah. It wasn't optional. Speaker 1 Were you feeling like, you excited for it? Like it was like Isabella told you to? I just had to do it because she told me to. Yeah, we're like. Speaker 2 I thought I was so in the know. I thought I was. I thought I was so in the know. I was like, I go to women's small group and I go to mass. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I go to everything wrong, wrong, wrong. No, I adopting to a single I kicked back. I did not go to like a frost anything blah blah blah. I was like I'm qualified to do this surely so I show up and then all of a sudden I'm on the leadership team Yeah core, but you were great Literally. I remember I think entertainment from day one I'm here. I'm the personality pick. Let's be honest. I agree. What analytical decision have I made in the last year? Tell me why. Yeah. Wait, I. Speaker 1 There is something like very first, like when we like brought in the meeting from or like the team from last year and then the team that was gonna be this that's like right now this year. And I remember you like asked a question and I was like, Dang, she's. Speaker 2 Brave like it was probably dumb from. Speaker 1 The get go you were like on top of it and I was like, whoa, whoa, but I don't know why it didn't click for me. Like I just was like, maybe she's just like asking a lot of questions, but I. Speaker 2 Don't know I was a side character at that point in Leslie. Speaker 1 I didn't know. I was just like, I didn't. I just couldn't, like, really tell. Yeah, because I don't. I don't think I hadn't met you before. Speaker 2 No, no. And look at us now. Oh. Speaker 1 Man, my message goes crazy. Speaker 2 That's going to the grave. Oh no, yeah. So now I'm like thrown into the middle of it and I like think I'm like, I'm in the know. But little do I know there's like 10,000 things going on in this community at all times. And now it's like you're yeah, there's a lot. You're part of it. There's. Speaker 1 Also a lot of changes that have been done since last year and like a lot of because like even me coming into this year, I was just like, I have no idea of what is happening right now. Like, I know it's going to change. So like, we were told something was gonna happen and then like a week later, like, oh, never mind. Like we're changing it up. And so I was just like, oh, my gosh, what is happening? So then I was just like, you know what, I'm just gonna wait for week 1. Whatever you guys tell me. That's what we're doing, you know? So wow, yeah, there is a lot. There is literally a lot. And like you and I both know with so many events that, yeah, for, I guess, context to Cassie and I are on community building. So we have, yes, we do kickbacks. We do the formals, the posada, the Mardi Gras, Mardi Gras. Dude, she killed the Mardi Gras, by the way, you guys should have come. It was so fun, so good. We ran out of food so fast. Wait. I called out a success. Speaker 2 Wait, it was raining and we got food for 100, so did I really think we were going to run out? No, I was actually stressing. Speaker 1 And we had a lot of. Speaker 2 People we did, I think all of us also had like 7 tacos each probably. Speaker 1 Wait, I didn't, but. Speaker 2 I didn't some people I had my. Speaker 1 Fair share. I had my fair share too. Speaker 2 Others. No. I saw people go back three times. I'm not going to lie. You know who you are and I'm just not my name. I would. I would, and you know I would. We're getting soft drag. So now I'm like, OK, I am going to be Miss Catholic and I know what's going on. And then summer happens and I'm here all summer and I'm going to daily Mass. Speaker 1 And what were you doing here in the summer? Speaker 2 I was working for the football team so I would like wake up at like 6, go to practice, work until noon, be sweat. Speaker 1 That's right. When you came back, your arm was broken, right? Speaker 2 Oh. Speaker 1 Anyways, we come back. Speaker 2 Yeah, I like was sweaty. We'd go to Mass, go to lunch, go back to work until 9:00 and then maybe it all again the next. Would you? Speaker 1 Like know people at daily mass and like would hang out with them or. Speaker 2 Oh my gosh this was the first time I ever met Alex Soto. Isabella told me to vote for him for president and so I did but but no idea who this man was. He was sitting nice to me I think for like 3 weeks before I realized that like father brought was like you don't know Alex Soto. I was like who like. Speaker 1 The wire charge. Kidding. Kidding. I'm just kidding. Yeah. Valid. No, but not valid. Not valid. Leslie, what do you say? I'm so sorry. Oh, my gosh. It's too late for this right now. I'm so like, no, but it's late. No, no, no. When I'm it's late. I just like, we're all we're all the funny things come out. Yeah. No. So anyways, so two of us, you're out here this summer. Yeah. Speaker 2 I meet some new characters. I don't think many people were here this summer. Like honestly, I need a daily mass like now. And it's so full. There would be 4 of us. Like I would show up. Oh my God. Mass was started at 12:20 and it would be like 1218. And I would be like the only one right there. Oh my God. I'm like wow, good for. That's insane. Yeah, 1. Speaker 1 On. Speaker 2 One I read like every day for like a month. 920 No I thought I was on top of the world and then and I started praying the rosary shout out Zach Bucky gave me his rosary for like a week, started praying every day. I was super into it. And then Nikki Brongos roasted my butt on like, why Catholic knowledge? Because I don't know. I sat down at dinner and bro decided to roast me. No way. Do you go to TLMI? Go. What is that? Can we call it Latin Mass if we're if we're if I'm not in the know. I would have said yes if I knew what Latin Mass was like. You're lying. Yeah. And so I looked dumb and I was like, wow, there's like a lot to know. Yeah, sorry. I just mentioned 2 football players though. They were my only company for like 3 months. So help me. I am not mentally well at this point. And then the year starts and I'm still feeling good. I'm like, OK, I got my rosary down daily mass, blah blah. Speaker 1 So you were at a high. Speaker 2 Yeah, I was at a high. We're at a high. We're still at a high. We're on. We're on the core team. Like we're gonna kill it. Yeah. And then. Oh, God. And then here we go. Holy, holy, Catholic. This is like a very Catholic group of people. Yeah, I think that, like, if this isn't the top 1%, Loki, how many clergymen? This isn't the top 1% of, like, laymen. Whoa. Like, we're killing it out here. Oh, yeah, We have some pretty Catholic people such, I don't know, The Divine Mercy chocolate. I don't know. Speaker 1 Dude, I didn't know it either until like I came to like there's a lot of things. I think it's like we need to talk about how sometimes when like you come to Stanford and let's then you're trying to be a part of this Catholic community. We've gone really good at this now. So don't think that like freshmen coming in, like don't think that it's like this anymore. But like, I feel like for Cassie and I, when we came in, I felt like I was a pretty good Catholic. Like I was like, you know, I was like, I was like my high. I was fine, you know, and then you come and you're like, I know, Oh my gosh, what is like bailing? What is? What is that Divine Mercy chocolate? What like and what are also? Speaker 2 What are these prayers? What are these? Speaker 1 Prayers and like as someone that also like did like Spanish mass my entire life, what how in the world am I going to translate this like this is so hard and like. Speaker 2 Spanish Mass weekly when you were growing up. Speaker 1 Yes, wow, yeah, I never went to English. So when I came here, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm bilingual and everything, but my prayers, like I did not know. I think our even our father. Yeah, our now I'm like, wow, that's so like crazy. I don't know how I did not know that. But like, and then like rosaries, like they're like, do you want to leave it? I was like, bro, I barely know the prayer like, and it made me seem like I felt like I was dumb almost because I was like, guys, I know the prayer, but in Spanish, like not because I don't know the prayer, but like, and then it's like, Oh my gosh, I have to leave. And now we do great in terms of like we ask people who wants to leave. So if you don't want to leave, you're fine. So. Speaker 2 Yeah, but like, I still know people that don't come to mass sometimes because it's not. And yeah, exactly, Exactly. Yeah. It can feel really invalidating. Oh yeah. Speaker 1 For sure. So there's just a lot of things that like you can feel like you're at a high, but then you come and you're like wow, there's a lot that I don't know or a lot that I can't explain or, you know, it's just like a lot of things. So I think it's something that's like very real to talk about and like, it's OK to not know. And I think something that like, I feel like has been especially by you, it's like you've been telling like people it's OK if you don't know guys, like literally guys. And you're like, very, very like, yeah. Speaker 2 I'm not like, it's OK. I'm like, I don't know. But like all other people, and then Alex and Alex and Isabella, it's OK. Speaker 1 It's OK. It's OK. Speaker 2 No, but I, I think it's, it's great that everyone knows all these things, but. Speaker 1 It's beautiful. Speaker 2 It's amazing and honestly I've learned so much and I would for sure if they like weren't here to guide me, but it it can like lead to some low moments of like. Speaker 1 Whoa, like do I Am I like where I thought I was? Speaker 2 Yeah, And it's like, am I actually Catholic if I don't know, like how to do the rosary or I don't know what like day, like the day of their mystery it is. And like, I'm sure people listening to this are like, what are you talking about right now? And honestly, thank you. Like, there's so much to learn and this faith is so interesting and like intellectually deep, but it can be hard to like know where to start. And I'm really grateful to this community for giving me the option to go down that path. But it can be hard sometimes to feel like everyone else is so far ahead. The Humbling Rosary Experience: Embracing Imperfection in Faith Of you it can feel intimidating yeah you can feel like I'm not what am I doing when I yeah because I remember I would go back to my dorm and like search up some of these things and yeah like Oh my gosh like they're talking about this I was quiet during that time but like let me search it up yeah and it's just like but I'm also like as you said grateful because like I've been ever since my freshman year like my like faith has gone on like a skyrocket high like I mean of course there's highs and lows highs and lows of course like anything else but I was just like wow I I know so much more now I know what these things mean and I think also we've done a very good job of like explaining it to people that don't know like because we were once in their shoes and so it's been like being translated into like the future generation so. Speaker 2 It's exciting. It's exciting stuff. But I, I, I did want to come on here and say like, I feel this way. Like I'm, I'm like running these events that people come to that are supposed to be Catholic, feeling like I'm not Catholic enough to do that myself. Like, why? Like sometimes I don't feel like I belong in this Church. Like, like, how do I, like, how am I worthy of God's lovely? You're never worthy of it. But like, I don't know, it's it can be scary and I have to tell the group rosary story, OK. Speaker 1 OK, I didn't know if you were going to mention this because I was like, it's your story. It's too funny, guys. OK, sit down, relax, enjoy the show. Speaker 2 Remember a lot like. Speaker 1 Yeah. OK. So mention. OK, so we have like rosaries like every week at least two or something like that. Ariana's on top. Speaker 2 Ariana's not have it. If you don't know Ariana, Yes, she do Great. I promise you to meet her. She's she loves, wonderful to everyone. She will talk to anyone. And she's so good about texting people to invite people to. Yeah. And so she texted me like, you should come to Rosary tonight. And I said OK. And I was there and I oh. Speaker 1 My gosh, I kind of wish I would have gone because I was on a deadline so I didn't go in the office to. Speaker 2 Do and then I come out like. Speaker 1 Come out later, she comes straight to me. Speaker 2 And I start like screaming. I was like, I was, and I know I say, I say all of these things as if like I'm talking just to Leslie and not on the entire like to the entire floor. I talk so loud and I talk so unapologetically. So we go as you should. And if you haven't done a group rosary, like I had never done a group rosary at this point. And this was 3 weeks ago. Like honest to goodness, 3 weeks ago probably. Speaker 1 We are being. Speaker 2 Real. Yeah. So this is not like, oh, in the past, like I didn't know anything. This was like everything. Speaker 1 Guys. Speaker 2 I show up to your brother. You're thinking, Ariana's gonna. She says she's gonna lead it. OK, So Ariana's gonna say the prayers. She starts and like, oh, this is the first, like, this is the first, like, decade or whatever. And then, like, start saying the prayers. She only says half of it. Hello. And then I have to, I have to chime in. Speaker 1 You have to finish the. Speaker 2 Prayer. Yeah, this is new. This is new. Sure. OK, cool. I can finish the prayer all of a sudden. OK, It's the second decade. Joseph starts talking. I I look around the room. Excuse me. And I count the number of people in the room. 5, five people are in the room. Whoa, that's a coincidence. Oh, man. Terrified. At this point, I'm no longer praying for like, anything, but just like God's mercy on my soul. I'm like, Get Me Out. Get Me Out. Is it appropriate to leave right now? Is this OK? Oh my gosh. And then the 4th person. Speaker 1 Who's the 4th person? Speaker 2 It was Joseph, Sabina, Isabella, Ariana and me. OK, OK, so we're we get there and it's like the third decade and Father Bart walks in and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm saved. Oh. Speaker 1 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he walks. Speaker 2 In I appreciate in six people now. Six people now. He sits down. He's like enjoying himself and like we get to like 5. And Isabel looks at me and I shake my head. So I'm like, OK, beautiful. I got it. Yeah. I've communicated my point. And Father Bart sees my you shake my head now. And I'm like almost my entire face is red. I'm like on the verge of tears. Like this is cannot be happening. Like, Oh my gosh, this is so embarrassing because not that, I don't know, OK, this is like, why can you not lead a decade of the road? Speaker 1 Wait, no, it's so intimidating. It's intimidating right now. I would not lead it. I'm like Ariana. I'm not. I will pray. I, I, I promise. But I I don't like. Speaker 2 Leading, but the scary part I'm standing up now. I I'm, I'm physically. Oh my God. And then we need to end this. This is too long. We need to go on with their lives. No, it's OK. What is this prayer? What is this prayer? What is this prayer? Speaker 1 Let's say the name of. Speaker 2 The prayer, the the bottom of prayer, Yeah, I just, I know it starts with Oh my Jesus. I they, I I'm like killing it. I'm like, I'm literally, I can't stop him. Speaker 1 She's over here making sure she's cutting every beat so she doesn't go over the 10. Speaker 2 And so I'm like, OK, like I got this finished, finished, Glory be to the Father. And then they go, Oh, my Jesus. What? What? I turn, I turn. You're lying. You're lying. I'm like, OK, OK, cool. So after the first one, I was like, OK, this is chill. I just won't say it. Then Joseph starts talking. And then I start doing the math in my head and I start adding up that like, there's five people in this room and there's a prayer. I don't know, Not OK. Oh, my gosh. So This is why I'm freaking out. So This is why I'm freaking out. Maurice. She's fully standing up. Fully standing up, right? Because this, this story brings me so much agita because pour me, pour me, I get invited to a rosary. Oh my gosh, come pray with us, beautiful. Speaker 1 You don't know the fat and. Speaker 2 Then they're like, now weed it. It's like, can you like, it's like, it's like this, like nice little Bunny comes out to you and then like trap. Yeah, trap. And so. Speaker 1 And like they're assuming you know it 'cause you're on like core team and stuff. Core team and like, Oh my God. And like, OK, let's be real. You give off a persona because you're on core team that you know every. Exactly. And that's what we're doing here. We're like being real. Let's be real. Speaker 2 We're being so real. I know nothing. Speaker 1 No, not nothing. Speaker 2 But just like that, Yeah, OK, OK, yeah, I've I've learned like 4 prayers this quarter because I've been embarrassed into it. And by the way, we went on a this OK, I need to tell the. Speaker 1 Story Finish the story first. Speaker 2 OK, so we get to #5I shake my head as I shake my head. Father. Speaker 1 You got, they got the. Speaker 2 Message Everyone sees my shake so I'm like OK, cool, I'm good Silence, silence. Utter silence. Yeah. And then and then Isabella, like process her soul, like takes my decade not realizing why. Yeah. And so we walk out of the room. I storm to Leslie and I'm like, what is this prayer? What is this prayer? Like, what is going on? Why did I walk in there? And I had to lead a prayer like, I can't do this. Like, what the heck was that? And I'm like fuming and not like in a way where it's like, I'm not. I'm not so embarrassed. Yeah. I'm so embarrassed. Are you getting? Speaker 1 Here laughing and be like Oh my gosh, she was. Speaker 2 Everyone was like peeing their pants, laughing at me because I'm ridiculous. I was being so dramatic. I know you were. Speaker 1 You were, it was, it was just funny. Speaker 2 Like and Ariana's like, you didn't know that prayer. I was not helpful. Not helpful, not helpful. Oh my gosh. And. Speaker 1 Keep in mind Cassie's being like, I'm not Catholic enough guys. I'm just not. No, no, no, never will I ever do that again in my. Speaker 2 Life, I'm never leading it ever blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And so Oh my God, it was so embarrassing and it became like the joke of the month. And so we go on retreat and Oh no, no, no, I swear the only joke that was made the entire day was like, well, not all of us know our prayer. Everyone looks at me, we all do a little cackle and then we move on. One hour later. Well, not those of us that don't know the thought of a prayer. Oh my God, I learned that guys. I was peer pressured into learning it but honestly. Speaker 1 W yeah, learning prayer, having a skill like how people know this story to unfortunate for you, but it makes it real for people and being like guys, even though we are on leadership, that doesn't even mean anything honestly. We're just people that sign up to do events and we're just like everyone else, honestly. But like people always, not always, but people might be like, oh, like they know so much. Like we can't even like blah, blah, blah. No, no, no. Sometimes we go and we're like what? What is going on? Oh my gosh, I don't know. Speaker 2 What I'm doing I mean. Speaker 1 Yeah, there are some people that, but I, I'm sure she's like her moments where she's like, Oh my gosh, like what are we doing? What are we doing? And I think it's like we that's what we're trying to emphasize in this like podcast being like guys like trust, all of us have these like highs and lows and all of us like have these like times we don't know. We literally don't know what's going. Speaker 2 On and it's OK. Speaker 1 And it's fine. Yeah, it's literally. It's fun to learn exactly like. Speaker 2 Boring. You know everything. Yeah, literally. Speaker 1 Like let's, like, let's. Speaker 2 Bring some real to the table. Speaker 1 Exactly. I'm just so big on like let's be real like if I don't know something like let's talk about it like you know and explain it to me in like how you would tell Chachi we take someone to me in 5 year old terms because I will not understand these like high, you know like but same with like TLM type stuff. At first I was like, Oh my gosh, what is this? Like literally what is this? And like I low key felt kind of like dumb. I was like, Oh my gosh, like yeah, I don't know what this is. And it's just like, but I'm I'm like grateful that I had like people like Hannah and stuff like explain to me like reasons why we do this. Why like I asked questions like why do this instead of just going to normal mass or you know, and you get these questions answered. And like, I think what's great about our community is like, anyone, I feel like anyone you ask is gonna be like, yeah, let me explain it to you. And they're gonna be so kind about it. So literally do not be scared to ask us questions because I'm sure we'll be like dude I thought the same thing when I was literally maybe 2 weeks ago. Speaker 2 Yeah. Speaker 1 So let's just be real. Speaker 2 And I know nothing, but if you have questions, I can probably direct you to the right person. It's Okay Not to Know: Consistency, Questions, and Relatability in Faith That's. Speaker 1 True. Yeah, that's also true. We can direct you to people that we know know the answer. Yeah, yeah. Wow, yeah, wow. I think like something big about this is just like learning that it's OK to not know and like, but also doing something about it. So like, seek formation, ask better questions. Like be like, don't just ask a question that you feel like is like intellectually smart. Like you're like, you're like over here framing it. No, no, no. Like ask the quote UN quote dumb question that you think is dumb. And also like, show up every day even if you don't feel like you're close to God. Like, show up, show up, show up, Yeah. Speaker 2 And also, I think it can be helpful sometimes to be the person that looks slow. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, like, who's gonna bring people closer to God, the people that can relate to them? Oh, for sure. Like if you, if I'm new to the church and I need a way to like, get in the person I'm going to look to is not the person that like, looks so high and mighty. Yeah. Like I, I can't approach you. Exactly. It's terrifying. Like, I feel so dumb. Like, yeah, I, I, it's. And so like be the person that's unabashedly saying like, I don't know yet. Yeah, but like, it's a yet and like you can figure it out. But like be that person that can ask questions and like be open to like someone coming to you because you could be the reason someone comes to church on Sunday because you don't know. Yeah, that's. Speaker 1 Exactly. As long as you invite them, you're like, you couldn't even be like, I don't even understand dude, but let's go together and we'll figure it out. Like that's beautiful. That's literally beautiful and like being dependent on God, praying to God, like even like if you're scared, I feel like it's intimidating. Even if right now we're saying like it's okay, we don't know. Some people might still be intimidated and be like, I cannot ask. Oh my gosh, I cannot ask. Like they say that they don't know stuff, but they know a lot. No, no, no. And also, like, I think you don't even have to ask us, like, just pray to God be like, allow me to have the answer to this. Because like, I feel like God works in unexpected ways. And like, if you're just dependent on God, God will put things in your life and will allow you to even bring, have the courage to ask at some point. And you're going to be like, wow, I never expected that. But that's literally all from God. So, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 So after watching this, you can now go watch Alex's podcast about the Divine Mercy Tablet. Speaker 1 And then you can. Speaker 2 Pretend to understand it. Speaker 1 You want to give your thoughts on after you listen to his podcast and you're like, no, the people need to hear the realness. Do you wanna? Yeah. Speaker 2 I was like, wow, like this man really just pointed us to like the most Catholic way of life. Let me go on here and be like, no, no. Speaker 1 Wait, I think this is a really like great conversation though. Speaker 2 And Alex is actually like that though. Speaker 1 To be clear about what like about like being Catholic, being so Catholic, I'm just, well, I even think that if he were to get on here, he would have times where he was just like he didn't know what he was doing. And like, I'm sure we didn't talk about this in the podcast, but I'm sure he when he came to Stanford, he was like, I didn't know what this was. I didn't know what this was. But it's again like the imposter syndrome where you act like you know everything and then you're like, let me search it up. Let me search it up, you know, So I think everyone has, if I'm being honest. And like I have it, everyone has it. So it's just like, let's just, I think it's, it's the main message is like, let's be open. If you're struggling or if you have questions, like feel free to approach Cassie or I or anyone in the Catholic community, talk to a priest. But like, if you don't even feel comfortable doing that, like keep praying to God and God will like put everything in place for you. So wow, this was a great conversation. While we are almost like an hour in. I, we yapped. Wait, yes, we yapped. We yapped guys. It is gonna be Sunday almost. We were doing this late at night. It's 11:58 on a Saturday. But you know what? We are committed to getting these podcasts posted every month, every two weeks on Monday. I try, try. But thank you guys so much for first of all, Cassie, thank you so much for thank you for having me being on here. I know we were. We're both so busy tomorrow. Her schedule's super. Speaker 2 Busy. Well, you're busy because if they if they watch this podcast early Monday, go to her talk on Monday nights. Speaker 1 Yes, Monday night we have a former abortionist speaking on just a topic of abortion. And just as I said in the past, like speaking about both sides and just I think we're really trying to bring in this respectful dialogue and just let's hear hear me out type of vibe with both sides. So I'm excited to get it going and to bring a different conversation to campus, but that's respectful and that at the end of the day, we all can just see each other as like human beings and have a great time. But thank you so much for listening to Cardinal Catholic Conversations. I'm so happy that we were able to be together with this winter quarter. It's about to come to an end. I know some of you guys are still with midterms unfortunately I know they're like midterms week 8 which is insane. But good luck. We will be praying for you and as always if you guys ever need anything, we are always here for you and I hope you guys have a great day. I'll see you guys later. Bye.