Episode 594: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part I - Dorp on Devil

There's no place to escape to. This is the last talk. -Cast on the left. [laughs] -Why are you fucking all the way? -That's when the cannonball some started. [music] -In the crowd. [music] -Cast! -Cast! [music] [music] [music] -I think there are a lot of troop crime, like podcasts and entertainment podcasts. They spend so long. Just like gross in these guys. Never once they set the thing out about just asking yourself, like, what's good about the criminal. [laughs] -And in this one, straight up, it's the hairstyles. -I was gonna say nothing. I was gonna say nothing. -I think the hair is terrible. -I think the hair, much like Yosef Ritzel, is largely her greatest attribute, because it gives her a thing. It gives her a ton. You wouldn't know, Carrotop, if you didn't have the hair. -You would know. -No, it props. -No, that's later on. -Heads and freckles. -Heads and freckles. -Heads and freckles. -Dorp is town. -Yep. -So Devil's Dorp would be Devil's Town. -That's why it's cool. -Oh, they were living in a Devil Town. -Yeah. -Didn't know it was a Devil Town. -It was made a Devil's Town against their will. -Mmm. -To us, this door is too small for the two of us. -Okay, Devil. You can have it then. I'm going back to heaven. -Well, in Cruurs' Dorp, a small boutique cult of Christians called electus Perdeus murdered 11 people in the name of God. -This is a high body count cult. -It is this story. I am so surprised that it did not get the play that placed that things like Snowtown did where Snowtown is a much more convoluted story with a smaller body count. Like, you know, that doesn't make it necessarily a better or worse thing. But it's just crazy with this. We're like, "These idiots killed a lot of people." -Yeah, they really did. -Well, their leader was a self-styled, satanic ritual abuse survivor named Cecilia Stain. -She definitely was self-styled because you can't pay for that hairstyle. -She claimed she was a part of a satanic witch bloodline that went back 42 generations to Pharaoh Ramsey's The Second. She had, however, escaped and claimed to be battling the very same groups to which she had once belonged. By claiming that she had escaped her cousin, she was able to convince a group of Christians who were caught up in South Africa's satanic panic that every outlander's claim she made, which rival even Mike Warnke's craziest lies was the gospel truth. -I actually think it goes steps even farther than Mike Warnke's craziest lies. -Oh, it's far beyond. -Because Mike Warnke, I mean, mostly he was doing it for the laws, right? He was doing for the content. -He was doing his money. -He didn't do money into sell books, but this lady, like talk about, I like to fashion myself from performer, right? Like a real actor, an actor's actor. I believe all the worlds of stage. And Mike, honestly, one of my favorite stages is my bedroom. But largely, that's a different, that's a performance I put on for the benefit of my family and my friends. -Yeah. -And everyone loves it, never one loves it, Natalie loves it, everybody loves it. But this woman never stopped performing. This woman never gave up the ghost once. And that I even give her points above Alex Jones. -Yeah. -And even you don't do your own special effects. -No, no, no, I hire out. [ Laughter ] -But while Mike Warnke told a bunch of stories about being a satanic high priest for money and attention, Cecilia's game was far more insidious. Cecilia was all about seeing what she could make people do. As such, her stories inspired 11 murders that were cleverly disguised as volleys against the scourge of Satanism in South Africa. -Unbelievable. -You fucking believe it. You think the South Africans need Satan? -I mean, yeah. [ Laughter ] -Desperately. I know so many people walk around that need Satan. I see him. If I see you with a button down shirt on with the fucking button up to the collar, they'll need Satan. -Yeah. -Or golf shirts. -Oh, God. -I hate wicking. Wicking's lying. Wicking is lying. God, our bodies sweat. Our bodies were made by God to sweat. How dare you use your decides made fabric to wick away my well-earned juice? [ Laughter ] -Well, Cecilia was able to convince one group of Christians that another group of Christians were actually a part of a satanic church and therefore needed to die. -See that? -Makes her likeable. [ Laughter ] -You know, some ways. I feel like, how do you say it? I'm happy with the result, but I don't have problems with the tactics. [ Laughter ] -But once the blade was wet, Cecilia was then able to convince her followers to kill pretty much anyone she wanted, all to serve the phony cause of her cult, electus per deus, which means chosen by God. But you not say that their motives, and her motives especially, are some of the more mysterious motives. -Very much so. -An any cult we've covered. This is someone that arrived much kind of like how Anders Bravik went against the -- it committed a one man war against the world that didn't know war was coming. And then he claimed himself victor over a war that he started and then ended himself. This lady kind of seems to have the same energy, where she declared war on a group of people that had no idea that they were inviting. this into their lives. She just kind of rolled in as a truth, like true chaos agent, with counter lady Charles Manson. Yes. For the reason. Yes. So the Kruger's Dork cult murders were originally considered by police to be two entirely different sets of murders. Before authorities knew about the existence of electus per deus, they believe they had a set of murders called the satanic killings and another set committed years later called the appointment murders, two clusters of murders. No one had any idea that all of these murders were committed by the same people. And when you glanced at the cases, there was no reason to link them. Even if you truly studied these cases, there was no reason to link all these murders together. They were all extremely different. Well, the satanic killings were a series of brutal murders that rivaled the Manson family. I'm talking like dozens upon dozens of stab wounds, blood on the ceiling, horrific shit, vicious, vicious murders. But the appointment killings involved business people who would show up to appointments only to be murdered and robbed. And they're very neatly dispose of, quote, unquote, dispose of. They were cut up put into bags, and then they were robbed. They definitely felt like they were looking for money. Yeah. Now, were those all locals or were there people from out of town? All locals. All these people, these are all Kruger's Dork locals. Yeah. And the one thing about Kruger's Dork is as we'll get into it. It's a very small town and everybody knew everybody. So it was like, it's about 120, 130,000 people. It's about the size of Abelene, Texas. Yeah. So a lot of people knew each other. So it was a very close knit community for it to kind of jump in murders out of nowhere. This is a place that it's maybe two murders a year. Yeah. And jump in murders twice, like two different sets of them. But once the people in the appointment murders were identified, their role in the satanic killings was quickly discovered. It was also ascertained that Cecilia Stain probably would have been arrested years before. Had it not been for the fact that she was married to a cop. Yeah. That's why my mom got away with all her crimes. South African police are notoriously corrupt. Yeah. And we're going to see that. Yeah. They sell their, they sell the lights on top of their car to criminals so they could pull people over and assault them or rob them, you know, they sell their uniforms to groups of people who like you wear them and like fucking just rob jewelry stores and shit like that in the middle of the day. It's a very corrupt society. That's why they rely on private security and private police forces. But in a way, isn't it almost more honest because then things can be bought and paid for. You know what I mean? And it's not all held together by nevertheless ideas of duty and jurisprudence and being a good person. I mean, ironically, I think it is kind of a truly satanist society. Oh, in that way, but satanism does not believe in hurting people that I'm not hurt you first. That is true. You've been a South Africa haven't you? I got the shirt. Yeah. Such a shitty bottom of the Amazon. Yeah. No, I was, I did the International Comedy Festival in Joanna'sburg and I was there for 10 days. It was fucking unbelievable. I went to Soweto twice. It was a life-changing experience. I got to go on Safari and it's a beautiful place for actually the Joanna'sburg is a great comedy scene. I also got to say it's really amazing that they let you leave the Safari. Yeah. You fucking piece of shit. I fucking nailed your ass. What animal was I? I should the nude pig. Yeah, I was going to say Warp Hog. Yeah. Oh, man. That was one thing I noticed though. Warp Hog was my favorite animal on the entire Safari because I noticed that they party with all the animals every time I saw Warp Hog. It was with another animal. This is the answer. And I think they're party. And that's the thing man. I didn't even know that. That was my instinct. Guys, it's like what animal warp hog definitely warp hog. I've very got Pumba energy. But before we get into this fascinating and complex story, let's acknowledge our sources. First, we've got the Kruger's Dorp cult killings by Jana Marx, which while dense is still a hell of a retelling with a lot of detail. The other is Satanism and Family Murder in Late Appartide South Africa by Nikki Falco. Which is despite the despite the title, it's pretty funny. That provided us with a lot of the information we have on South Africa's satanic panic. And speaking of which, this is not going to be in a partied series. No, no, no, no, we're not yet at that point. No, let me tell you how it all happened. All right. I mean, apartheid certainly will appear at the edges of this story, particularly the satanic panic and particularly because apartheid informs Dan near everything in South Africa to this day. That's not what we're here for. And I'm sure there are a hundred other podcasts that can explore apartheid far better than we can. Have you seen that? My tongue's apartheid. It's got it's great, great, great podcast with fucking was some guys in the hot to a girl. Yeah. Yeah. But today's cult leader Cecilia Stain was a trashy fuck up who had a pathological need for attention and approval. As you said earlier, this is a true agent of chaos. As far as her appearance goes, I describe her as a surly, balding truck stop gas station cashier with short, spiky hair black hair. You like a man to man falls. Oh, no, you fucking pussy. No, it doesn't think I'm going to have to work out her voice because it definitely is the direct. I like Charles Manson. That is for certain. And because South Africa is very difficult and there's so many different arrays of South African accent, too. Like all the kind of all sounds like they're from different sections of the world. And then also like all of the documentary footage, great documentary series, devil's door, they'll watch, but it really kind of puts it all together. Then you use like English phrases randomly. Yeah. Yeah. And there's different languages spoken all throughout South Africa. There's many there's many different dialects of Zulu and all that shit. It's very confusing. Yeah. Now I think that if it hadn't been Satanism, Cecilia would have found something else as a framework to manipulate people into doing her bidding because that really was her game. In fact, like Charles Manson, Cecilia never participated in a single murder. And especially for somebody like her, the fact that she sort of got away with not doing any of the dirty work now really kind of shows she actually was more of a higher caliber manipulator than Charles Manson. Yeah. producer. She's a real producer. But just as Manson was able to plug into the darker zeitgeist of the late 60s to gain control over his followers, Cecilia was able to amplify South Africa's Satanic panic to such an extent that her followers were willing to commit murder to fight the scourge of Satanism solely based off Cecilia's word. So while America's Satanic panic died down in the 90s and returned only recently with QAnon. Oh, it's because we love reboots. South Africa's Satanic panic never really settled the way ours did. There it actually established itself within their government in formal roles. It was extremely serious. Yeah. Now South Africa's Satanic panic coincided with the later years of apartheid, which ended in 1994. In short, apartheid was an extreme form of segregation and discrimination. So egregious that it's now considered a crime against humanity. But when you look at it, so we're against it. Sure that we got that on the record. Yeah, we're all against we're with all the musicians. I don't like it. I don't like it. I'm in apartheid. My shoes the wrong way was also a really inappropriate comedic podcast about apartheid that I really again, I don't even know how there's humor in this situation. But when you look at apartheid from the Satanic panic angle, the end of apartheid was a time of extreme anxiety for the white, African or population of South Africa. And just as we've seen here with QAnon and Maga, some white people tend to lean into some really crazy shit when they get nervous about their station and society. It's almost like it's like some kind of social madness. It is. There's a good thing about like because even this because apartheid wasn't a, I wasn't a called a, like not a majority was like I'm it was a minority. It was minority roles. So the idea is that they are all like kind of clinging to some idea that we are supposed to be in charge of everyone here. Well, basically it's they have a certain worldview. And when that worldview is shaken to such an extent that their entire, the way they look at the world has to change everything about reality for them get shaken as well. Everything becomes unmoored. And if somebody has a crazy fucking explanation as to why things are suddenly unmoored, then people latch onto it. We saw it in America when we elected a black president and people lost their fucking minds because having a black man in charge of them or having a black man in the top spot was so so expensive. So intense. Well, it was so crazy. Yeah. Like not just even offensive. It was just like literally he was the most Republican president we had. And it was so angry. Yeah, but that's why I voted for bin Laden. I keep writing it in. I stole my neighbor's balance. I wrote it in. I stole my other neighbors balance. I wrote them in. I'm looking for him to get his third shot. But here's the thing that's interesting about the South African satanic panic. While you think they'd focus on the African population, you know, the people that were pushing the change that was turning the world upside down, all of the so-called Satanists that were kidnapping and eating South African babies, these were coming from the white African community. This was actually another form of racism and another consequence of apartheid. See, black Africans in South Africa did indeed perform what you'd call "magic" for lack of a better word. - And it's a form of. - In a better word, yeah. - And it was their culture. - Yes, like in New Orleans or Haiti. Yeah, but to be worried about that magic would mean that white Afrikaners would have to acknowledge black Africa, which was something they couldn't do because apartheid would not let them acknowledge the segregated population. So they had to be afraid about something, but since they couldn't be afraid of the black population because they believed themselves to be above the black population, they had to be. - Like, their magic couldn't fuck with the white power, right? - Yeah, exactly. Their magic can't fuck with our white power, but I'm still afraid, so I've got to find somebody to be afraid of, but I've got to be afraid of somebody on my level. - I need some white black magic. Instead, the South African satanic panic was rooted in the same stupid bullshed as ours, ghostbusters, ninja turtles, Iron Maiden, Dungeons and Dragons, rebellions, drugs, sex, horoscopes. In other words, it's all shit that just comes from America or England. - It's all how. It's all of the. Like, I guess that's one of the worst parts about this story, and about satanic panics across the world is that it's buried in ignorance. It's like, comes out of this soil of not knowing what the living fuck that you're talking about. - Yes. - And it's also wildly specific in ways that should immediately show you that what they're talking about is horseshit. There was a guy named Tian Guildenhoys that was a ran-of-thing called spiritual house cleaning, which took over South Africa for a period of time, and it was just like concept. It was like this. It was stuff like showing the evil symbolism inside of Spider-Man's web on his chest and how the lightning bolt is the devil's signal, so which is why Harry Potter is the literal embodiment of the devil, sort of like, charming your childs and to getting them involved in their story. - Don't give him that kind of credit. - Exactly. This is what I'm talking about. One of the most prominent Satan hunters for that was what they were called, was a reverend named David Nell. He insisted that there were 200,000 South Africans who were members of a satanic group called the Brotherhood of the Ram, which made Satanist, in his view, a full 10% of South Africa's white population. - Technically, you should be courting their vote. Why are we attacking a voting block? They need to be engaged with. - But even with those numbers, South Africa's satanic panic started out small. In 1985, a group of female students at a conservative university refused to sell a student magazine on the basis that it promoted Satanism. Apparently, the magazine had two very scary pictures, one of a goat peaking over a fence with human hands, and another featuring a human kitty cat hybrid face. These pictures, the girls said, were satanic and therefore should not be associated with university. And a massive controversy occurred. - Meanwhile, there's just like a poor stupid artist. It's like, my problem is I can't draw hooves. I wish I could. I would have made the whole goat. I wish peace tell me how to make hooves. I don't make them look like little lions. As I go with human hands, it's a human with a goat head. I get my own good news. I'll just beat Dolmabitopsy Derby. - Same year, however, shit ramped up when a 16-year-old girl was arrested for killing her mother and brother before shooting at her father's. Just kind of went crazy. An unnamed source told the press that a satanic cult was responsible. That, of course, created a lot of speculation. - What's great about a satanic cult is that number one to blame is that number one doesn't exist, right? So then the cops can sort of make up the evidence that exists based upon the most scant little pieces where they could say like, oh, they had a black shirt. Oh, they had an upside down cross earring that they wore. But what's great about them is that it gives them an explanation of like these things happen. They don't have to think, they don't have to investigate. It's a really good, easy escape for police and for people to say, oh, would satanic activity because then they get a bunch of money. As you can see, they get a bunch of money shows up and they also get total impunity and they get to be warriors for Christ, which makes it a better story for them to try to get a blow job from a man at a bar. - Well, after that, after that killing, the Department of Education launched an investigation into satanist movements in schools. And this is what I'm talking about when I say South Africa's panic was more intense than ours. Yes, many people here did go to jail and many did have their lives ruined over bogus claims of satanic ritual abuse. But there was no overarching investigation in which cabinet officials were seriously believing that our country was teetering on the edge of full satanic influence. But make no mistake, this shit could still happen here. - Oh, it's in the mail. It's in the mail. Show up in November. We're counting on all of you to show up in November because this shit could absolutely happen here. - I actually think real change will happen in this country once they ban porn. I mean, I feel like it's like once Miami's gone, once Miami's in the water and once I'm sorry, but once Miami's finally taken back by fucking Neptune and once fucking porn is banned, then people might realize that once we can finally replace the Miami dolphins with actual dolphins, the world will be a better place. So now you want, do you really want the NFL's training regimen to be put upon the dolphins and then you want the dolphins to get CTE because you know what's gonna happen is then we're gonna have the very first dolphin family annihilation where the father dolphins going to come back, strangle the pond and then kill himself with the training rig that they have in his underwater training area. - That's already happened. - Now the investigation came after clergymen called on the government to appoint an inquiry into a supposed epidemic of Satanism on the playgrounds of South Africa. Around that same time, South Africa launched what said to be the world's only ritual murder task force, the occult-related crimes unit. Now we've had individuals in American law enforcement that have called themselves experts on the occult, but we've never had an official unit whose only job was to battle Satan's minions on Earth. South Africa did. - Those are like priest cops. - Yeah. - Well they were cops imbued with the duty of priests to fight on behalf of the state against the spiritual deviance, which is a big main stripe of the apartheid movement, which is this idea that we are going to stomp out any form of anti-Christian thought, any form of would be a spectrum of atheism. - Yeah apartheid was also very against Marxism. They were very afraid of Marxism, you know, communism and communism and all that. They were terrified of. - And a tenet of communism is atheism, right? The idea that we're having an atheist government. And so gay would fight that to the nail. And again, these things are the thing about when Satan comes into play, which I know all too well, said things get a little sexy. Things get a little bit spicier. Heroes become a little bit braver. The villains become a little bit more nefarious. So what these guys do is that like all of this just boosts their power, which also boosts their building to not be questioned in the use of their power. - And who do the occult cops report to? The government or the government? - Government. - The government. - Yeah, the government. - Because they're part of, they're part of like, it would be like if the FBI had an occult crimes division. - But that was before we've had local police had occult crimes. There were occult crimes divisions. - It's like individual guys, yes, but not from the Pentagon. - Yeah. Well, the most high profile cult cop was a man named Cobus Youngker, also known as Dunker Youngker. Which means in Afrikaans means a dark younger. Dunker is dark. But from here on out, he will be known as Dunker Youngker. - Oh, Dunker Youngker. Oh man, I've talked up all these. These are, I've heard a lot of women don't necessarily need a Dunker. - Darth Youngker. In the media, cops like Dunker Youngker were portrayed as Rambo-esque saviors who policed South Africa's national borders, both physically and metaphorically, to ensure, quote unquote, collective purity. Now, by 1990, Dunker Youngker had enough cred to push concerns that on April 30th, the satanic high holiday of Walpurgis. - Walpurgis. - Walpurgis. - Walpurgis. Noct was going to kick off in the most horrific way possible with a massive amount of sacrifices all over the country. - And that's right. Satanist do sacrifice. We sacrifice every day for the freedom of speech in the United States of America. We sacrifice. We sacrifice our mouths in trying various unnamed Asian markets slash restaurants that look kind of sketch. But you know, using the imperial, empirical vision of the lamp light of knowledge that I could see that there's the white people in the restaurant. I mean, it's good. - Specifically, Dunker Youngker said that babies were the most popular targets for sacrifice. So anyone with a baby or a child needed to be very afraid. - Of course, you're sitting there. - Dunker Youngker also said that he was following a number of leads indicating the location of a satanic cult. Leads that included, but we're not limited to a catch that had been satamized. - Man, fuck these people, dude. You think we're going to fuck that kind of pussy? - No, man. We fuck awesome good, the human guy. All right, now the kind of one that's gonna fight back with all four of its little limbs. - Or the bots? - Yeah, wow. - If it was a lion, you know, I would have been more impressed. - The top of the day would have never. - No, lions was his pet. There was the most powerful animal in this A-Tan, but according to him, it was that and the bull and most powerful animals in this A-Tanic lexicon. - Not the goat? - No. - I thought the goat was the shit. - That's goat is a baffum at bat, but technically that whole thing is a symbol of balance, not necessarily a symbol of power. - Yeah, if you wanna see something really fun, look up the interview that Anton Levay did with his lawyer when his lion was taken away from him. - I will say his abuse of the lion is probably the worst thing that he did. - Yes. - Now, according to Dunker Yonkers sources. - How many more times are you gonna say Dunker Yonkers? - It may as I can. - Do you think I can stop? - Yeah, I'm just gonna know. (laughing) - I'm gonna use the Fritzel voice. I cannot use it for Dunker Yonkers. - I actually think that might be the last Dunker Yonker. - There might be one more. - I actually really like peanut butter Dunker Yonkers. (laughing) - But according to its sources, young people were being lured into Satanism at an alarming rate, but only after they were drugged, forced into demeaning sexual performances and photographed all to keep them in the cupboard. - Blast male. - Wait a second, was that my fucking Saturday at Live audition? (laughing) - Now, Volpe just knocked, came and went without incident that year as it always does. But less than a month later, the head of Cape Town's Child Protection Unit, Captain Leonard Solmes, gave a press conference where he revealed his quote unquote, findings from his own investigation into Satanism. He said that he had it on good authority that 11 babies who had been specifically bred for sacrifice to the devil have been ritualistically murdered by having their throat slit and their hearts eaten. - He should have picked 13, that's a more demonic number. - Thank you, Eddie. This was all seen over by a group of Satanists who were also high-ranking members of the government in South Africa's capital, Cape Town, which is a storyline that American to quite familiar with by way of QAnon conspiracies. The elites are killing and eating babies. - But I do find it interesting as a why would the government that has sponsored an entire, like part of the reason why we have the ever-lingering idea that there are a giant pedophile cabal inside of our U.S. government run by Satanist is the fact that we didn't ever have a national like federal investigation into it. That's one of the things they hold there like you see, it's because they're protecting each other. How do you manage to convince yourself that the government's involved in the Satanic cabal when they have purposely set up the federal investigative unit to look into Satanic crimes? - I know, but this is the local Cape Town government and he's outside of that. He said, "Oh yeah, yeah, no." - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sheriff is the devil. (laughing) Sheriff is the devil, yeah. - Yeah, the guy that headed the H away, the deer is so devil. (laughing) - It's the mayor of Cape Town. He's the one that's evil. But besides the baby killing, these high ranking officials also allegedly engaged in bestiality, animal cruelty, mass orrgees, drug taking, secrecy, and threats of death for disloyalty. And while there was no evidence for any of this, not even an empty fucking bottle of lube, Captain Sohms assured everyone present at this press conference that everything was true because he'd been told it was true by Satanist. - And also on the inside. - It doesn't matter, but also I don't understand. Where it's like, I mean, again, we're trying to apply logic. - Yeah. - But the Satanists are the arbitrators of all eyes, right? They're the guys that the, the, the, the, - Unless they're to see. - Unless they are telling you something that you want to hear. That is the thing that I have noticed about these fucking people is that Satanists are always liars unless they're telling you the story you want to hear. - And then they're telling the absolute truth. - And they're telling the truth. - But it's also kind of funny because they are also like, because you could see much how like prisoners or like serial killers lie while they're in jail and make themselves appear more powerful so they can either get more respect or be safer inside of prison that the Satanists, they, it seems like they would be lying to make themselves appear more powerful. - So what was he just hanging out with Satanist and relying because then now he's suspect. (laughing) - That's what you get in this year. - And you would say that a lot of things out. - Well, it's always Satanists who are coming over to our side. - Yeah. - They're coming over to our side and they're telling us the truth and they're telling it, they want to get these horrible crimes off their chest and oh my God, yeah, they were here. We did sacrifice everything, but I guess they cleaned it all up. It's all gone now. But we were here last night sacrificing babies, but all of that is the power of Satan. The power of Satanists is so powerful that they can clean up the fucking ritual murder of 11 babies in one night. - And not like mom, not the floor. - No, no, no, there's never one mom looking for them. - And you can take me, I'm Jackson, and I'm the Satanist genitive. (laughing) - I take you because I always clean it up nice and good. I get my big stank him up and I get my evil bucket. And then I'm always picking up little baby parts, licking it, little blow, looking at little baby pieces. Like oh, I wish I could die on that, but I know the dance for the devil. (laughing) - I do it real fast. (laughing) You get them close to retirement. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I am bound to this by my sins of my previous life. (laughing) - Well those same Satanists only made things worse by giving supposed interviews to bolster their claims because these people are also attention seekers. The same month as the baby eating press conference, a man dubbed Peter the Satanist by the press gave an interview in which he said he ate a human heart. - I know, I'll tell you right now, it wasn't that good. (laughing) - Apparently had any salt. - No, he ate kind of underwhelmed. (laughing) In many ways, just kind of whaddled. - Weeks later in that same magazine, Peter the Satanist claimed that he'd found Jesus through the preaching of Pastor Neville Goldman, who just happened to be this magazine's favorite anti-Satownist crusader. The former Satanist also said that he returned to Christianity after realizing his devil worshipping, it's affecting his son. - Yes, one day, yes, one day I came home and I found my son, Siderman, who is a bedroom, with a girl with visible nipple rings wearing a leather harness. And they were, I can't believe he was practicing this for his death metal band. (laughing) And he said he was going that night out to hang out with his friends at the denys and then that his beautiful woman to his concerted. I just couldn't stand to see what had become of him. (laughing) - Now, when Vaughan Purgis knocked rolled around the next year, the media created an even larger panic by making sure to note that two high-profile South African child abduction cases had occurred just before dates that were important to Satanist, so-called high holidays, like Saoan and Halloween. As a result of this panic, some schools were completely emptied by April 24th because parents were so afraid Satanists were going to abduct their children and police departments were inundated with rumors of abductions and reports of Satanists hanging out at the mall. - No! - Not Spencer! (laughing) - The original home of the Dark Arts. (laughing) - Spencer's. - Actually, if you were to ask me, in the 1990s, where are the Satanists at the mall? - Yeah, they're at the Orange Lazarus. - Yeah. - Like they are four certain all hanging out because you could see, they get their big shoes on, big pants on, they're just griping, they're playing with the like, you know, sometimes some malls have the things you can drive around. - Oh, little carts. - Little carts, something around those. - Yeah. - They're fucking lyrid, they're getting jingos. - Yeah, outside the movie theater, they're hanging out outside the yogurt shop. We know where they like to be. - Oh yeah, we used to always hang out near the fountain. The water fountain's always a good place to hang out at the mall. - And let it run red with blood. You never met the 29 year old Satanist manager of a hot topic. (laughing) - I got it. - I'm just vaping outside, just going, whatever. - And the thing is, he's dangerous, but not in the way you might think. - No, no, no. - He's definitely shouldn't be someone like your daughter hang around. - Oh no, he's the one who comes inside your daughter. - Yeah, yeah, you're looking at a sun law. - Now there was a rash of school girl disappearances, but they had nothing to do with Satan. Instead, the schoolgirls have been kidnapped and killed by a pedophile named Gert Van Ruyen, who murdered at least six girls with a female accomplice before dying in a murder suicide. Now that's of course fucking terrible. And there is some evidence to suggest that Gert Van Ruyen may have been involved in a pedophile ring and pedophile rings absolutely exist as well. - Honestly, it was kind of more of like a circle. (laughing) - We just hanging out the way, it was more of a, if you could look at the positions we were all in, it was kind of more of a trapezoid. (laughing) But there was no evidence that Gert Van Ruyen was doing what he did for any motivation other than his own twisted sexual desires. - That's a matter of fact, I could consider myself more of a Taylor Swift fan than anything else. - That is how I ended up with that. - Yeah, I don't know how many times we have to fucking say this, but when you find out the music tastes of serial killers or murders, it's always the blandest shit on the face of the fucking planet. - I'm like prog rock and weird like. - The only one, Dennis Nielsen actually did a pretty good taste. He loved Lori Anderson, which I'm a massive Lori Anderson fan. - She's the one. insane. And I saw her fucking exhibit at the her shorned museum in DC fucking rock and roll. Dennis Nilsson serial killer favorite song favorite singer. Yeah, his favorite song was Oh Superman. That makes sense. Well, it's like I always said the example I always give is that guy who murdered the little boy and that murdered the little boy in Brooklyn remember way back when we were living there. Yeah, his favorite band was Hoody in the blowfish. Oh, yeah, it's always like that. Well, you know, I like hoody, you know, he's friends with Damarino. Okay. He was just arrested for selling XC. Damarino hoody. Oh, really? Yeah. God, you get's cooler every day. Yeah. After it became apparent that Dunker, Yonker and his cult and his cult cop compatriots, actually, it's quite a few Dunker Yonkers left once it became apparent that he and his cult cop compatriots were coming up with a bunch of goose eggs. The South African police tried issuing gag orders, telling them that they were to make no further statements to the media regarding Satanism. Soon after though, in November of 1991, Dunker, Yonker uncovered what he believed was proof positive that Satanism was alive and well. He'd arrested an alleged satanic high priest and his younger brother in what Dunker, Yonker called the biggest Satanism hall, the city of port Elizabeth that ever seen such a funny idea. Just maybe image of Dunker, Yonker on a boat with a priest in his child on a giant fishing line. Just staple gun to tail to a man. We got him. The so-called high priest and his brother, however, were pretty much just a couple of shithead kids. In essence, they were stealing grave stones and smoking weed. Whoa, man, that's fucking. Whoa. That's supposed to steal grave stones. That's what you're supposed to. You're supposed to switch them. That's true. The grave so that's sacred. That's supposed to fuck with grave stones or graveyard or anything like that. But the arrest was nevertheless seen as a victory for Dunker, Yonker, who was soon after tapped to lead the aforementioned occult crimes unit. It's like going fishing and you just like catch out to shirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we got something. One of their most bizarre cases occurred in the small town of riot fontine. There are five schoolgirls claimed who have been victims of what they called the thing, aka the riot fontine slasher. These girls and what sounds quite similar to cases like the devils of Lulule, they claimed that invisible supernatural force had torn at their clothes, scratched their legs, pulled their hair and sexually abused them. But since this whole thing seemed to be related to the occult, Dunker, Yonker was put on the case. Where are their girls? Where they put the tip inside? Don't go, Yonker, Yonker, we're going to be there. James Yonker, don't go, Yonker, don't go, Yonker. Please be incredibly serious while I speak. I am serious, man. I'm serious. I'm serious, man. Yes, I don't take my favorite drink. No, I'm shoes mixed with milk. Yes. No, you're sentering, never. After interviewing the girls without assistance from psychiatrist, Dunker, Yonker reported to the press that this was a matter for Jesus Christ and that there was nothing else the police could do. So my hands are tied. Yeah. This donker is Yonker. I don't want to deal with this no more. We're going to toss us up to the air upstairs. He then passed on the matter to local priests who exercised the school where all this was happening. Get out, devil. You have to take a collapse. Yeah, yeah, devil. The school's principal then joined in demanding prayer from his students demanding it. Then the minister of health services, a government official traveled to the school and led the kids in prayer saying that yes, Satan had come to riot fontine. When asked if the girls might be lying, the principal said no, because the girls were all well adjusted and quite attractive. Yes. Don't believe. I believe me. I noticed is I donker, Yonker. The Yonker that donkers his way across South Africa. No, pretty girl has ever told that I don't know the truth about it. And how I can tell is if my balls move out of human lie detector. I look down to my young girls and I see if they move left or right. Left means they're being deceitful to the right means I'm getting around. My young girls are quite bunkers. The kicker here was that riot fontine was right next to the border of Namibia, which was considered a part of South Africa and tell Namibia claimed independence in 1990. Suddenly, riot fontine was right next to black Africa instead of being snuggled in white South Africa. And white people, therefore, got very weird. But while donker, Yonker was involved in some of the goofier cases, that doesn't mean that he wasn't called when the major crime seemed to have an occult edge. In 1992, donker, Yonker, man, there was so many more donker, Yonker. There's a lot of donkers. But like each one. And every time I crack a little smile, you know, he's like, "Oh, I'm going to get you a shithead." I just got a smile. Yeah. Well, in 1992, he was assigned to the brutal murder of Don Orso. Now, police were quick to draw connections to Satanism in this case. And when the killers were revealed to be Don's daughter, Dominique, and her boyfriend Lawrence, their testimony only confirmed the Satanic suspicions of the authorities. Dominique and Lawrence's defense was that they had been possessed by demons during the time of the killing, which incredibly enough actually garnered them sympathy with the public because they seem to be victims of the devil as well. But now we're seeing a function of Satanic panic where it gives those of you, this is now going to come up where it gives people agency to act however they want in the name of either side. And then the one side gets the hell made. But there is no either. There is no either side. There's no Satan. There's no Satanic side. There is no. At any point. There's almost never. What happens is that truly people like Cecilia Stain are the things that make that stuff quote unquote real because they're using the smoke screen of the panic to allow themselves to get agency for their beliefs. Like this, the all of this shit is like being able to just say and get sympathy saying the devil may be doing it means that now a lot of people got more excuses to do shit. But as the case progressed, it became obvious that Lawrence was a fuck up misfit who had been manipulated into committing a murder by his charming girlfriend who wanted her mother dead. As the judge put it, the crime was too goal oriented to be involuntary. But let's do think this judge was a reasonable person. He made sure to note that the court did accept that people could be possessed by demons. That just wasn't what had happened this time. I'm going to let you know I was possessed by demons all last week. And then eventually I went to the bathroom and I realized I'm lactose intolerant. As the 90s progress, Satanism stories fell out of favor in the mainstream South African press until they disappeared altogether, much like the Satanic panic did here in America. But as is evidenced by the Kruger's door cult killings, South Africa's Satanic panic left a permanent mark on the Christian, Afro-Conor community. If it hadn't, then there would have been no way that Cecilia Stain would have convinced a group of devout Christians to commit 11 absolutely horrific murders. Now before we get into the story of Cecilia Stain, let's first talk about the woman who effectively empowered Cecilia to do what she did. A person whose biggest crime was being stupor-fyingly gullible. This woman's name was Rhea Groenwald. Yeah. Stupor-fyingly gullible, but I still feel it's all this. How do you say sometimes you get what you ask for when you want to be some form of superhero? And you think you're fueled by Christ himself and you have this, it's hubris. Yeah, very much. Now at worst you could see Rhea Groenwald as a busybody, maybe even a full-on pain in the ass. Cerea was a believer in the eternal battle of God versus Satan, a battle that was being played out on earth every single day by human agents on both sides. Rhea of course considered herself to be an agent of God. So by 2006, Rhea was a financial advisor living in a South African town called Florida. Just a few miles from Johannesburg. She was divorced with two kids. She was 52 years old and she was of course a devout Christian. I'm a divorcee. I get two kids and I got Christ's my co-pilot. I'm unstoppable. You should see this snapple. I got three clips. I live in Florida Africa. The safest place you will ever be. Oh my, I wrote a crocodile to the post office and then I punched the mailman in the face and he said thank you. Praise Jesus. Rhea's entire life was shook up however when she was invited to a Christian training course about how to identify the occult and how to help so called survivors of Satanism. These so called Satanists were people who would supposedly manage to break free from the shackles of the occult by converting to Christianity. Let me just have you know right now, honestly, they never do that. They never go from the occult to Christianity. They go from the occult to owning a gym based store. They go to the occult to becoming a podcast producer. They don't go to Christ. - Yeah, or they go from the occult to just, I don't know, do nothing. - Nothing. - It's like, it's not, the occult isn't evil. There's nothing to, I don't know. - Yeah. - That's all they wrote. - Now for whatever reason, Rhea felt like this training course was her true calling. So she devoted all her time and energy to saving people from Satan and the occult. - I am burdened with this responsibility. - Such was her dedication that she became almost like a sidekick to the local police who would work with Rhea when they were hunting Satanists. Rhea even started bothering and enabling the delusions of youngsters like one high schooler named Monique who came to believe that Satanists were planning to kidnap and sacrifice her on Halloween. As we mentioned earlier, so-called high nights like Halloween, Sawan, or Belting, these were when Satanists supposedly performed their most powerful rituals and made their most high-value sacrifices to Satan. So Rhea encouraged Monique's delusions. - Does he understand that on our holidays, we relax. - Yeah. - This is not the time we don't party on, we don't do rituals on Verl Perkisnok. That's our work. We save that for Monday to Thursday. - And Satan's busy. It doesn't need more sacrifice. - No, he's got a lot going on. The elections coming up. He's got a lot of stuff on Satan's plate. - Rhea discovered that Monique's mother knew nothing of the dangers of Satan and the occult. So Rhea started educating her as well, instructing her on how to fend off spiritual attacks with prayer. Now of course, nothing happened to Monique, but because nothing happened, Rhea could say that nothing happened because of her. Now Rhea Groomwald became enamored with the idea that she was battling the devil's minions here on earth. So she formed an organization and chose a name that does not sound as good as she probably thought it did. She called it overcomers through Christ. - There is a church he wears that says, I am an overcomer. And I really want it. - Where's that? - Can I possibly get anyone? Sign stories, L-P-O-T-L-A-G-M-L.com. I will pay good money for somebody to guy. I will put up the actual picture of the shirt. I want one, but spell the right way. Because overcomer for Christ. - Oh, Rhea's because I am an overcomer. And I think because you know what's nice, but overcoming is that then you're not horny enough to be tempted. So if you overcome, you ever do that? - Oh yeah, it turns to just like water. - But you never know. (laughing) You never know, like Julie's out of town or whatever, you've never just gone to fucking town and yourself a master. - What happened to your younger? - When I was younger, there was a summer in Tallahassee when everyone was out of town. And it was just me for like three weeks. I was empty. - I am not gonna lie in Australia in the hotel room. I reach the end of my balls. (laughing) And I was right there. - Honestly, interestingly enough, that I felt the power of Christ. - That's why when we shook hands, they stuck together. - But yeah, you know what I mean? - Yeah, you know what I mean? You don't know where I've been. - And it's not overcomers for Christ. It's worse than that. It's overcomers through Christ. - Oh, that's so much come that it blasts out of his own business. - Yeah, yeah. (laughing) - Bye from your place. - Well, overcomers through Christ basically functioned as a small church with meetings, directors, and official members. Rhea even had a graphic designer named Candace Rievis designed business cards and a logo for overcomers. But that's all to say that Rhea wanted overcomers to be as professional and official as something like this can be. - Well, you can once you overcome, then you can be. - Yeah. - Then you can actually focus on your work. - Now, if you're fighting Satan's minions on earth, then you're not gonna keep that to yourself. - So Rhea and the other overcomers. (laughing) - It's a minion, it's a minion. (laughing) - Yeah, I'm a favorite. (laughing) - I love the minion. - You do, man, you do love the minion. You're solely the coming one. - I wanna dress up as a minion and I wanna take a gun to the store. (laughing) - But Rhea and the other-- - I feel like Rick Marann is playing a minion. (laughing) - Rhea and the other overcomers went to every school and church in the area to warn teachers and students about the dangers of Satan during week-long seminars called Enrichment Weeks. - I think a lot of people in America experience something like this. I'm pretty certain that people have gotten, 'cause I know that we had a, what was it? We've talked about this before, the Christian dudes, the big power lifter guys, power lifting for Christ, they were ripped open. People had that, church people visit your school. - We had, well, there was the church yo-yo people, the people that-- - Yo-yo, yeah. - No, no, no, they did yo-yo tricks and then they talk about Jesus. - Oh, they said yo-yo. - Yeah, and they saw yo-yo at the same time. Christian yo-yo, yo-yo's across the world. - Yo-yo, yo-yo's. - What was it about our lives as kids? - I love yo-yo's. - But we were given yo-yo's work. - I don't want yo-yo's. - They were jammed down our fucking throat. - That's 'cause our dads like them. - It's how it would it is. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's exactly what it is. And then video games kill the yo-yo. - Yep. - Yeah. - Now we also had this other one. - Go see kill yo-yo for me. - Yeah. - Yeah, it was having sex. It made you better at fingering. (laughing) - Yeah, baby, I'm gonna walk your dog. (laughing) - We're real worked with the local police social crime prevention unit to scare children and teenagers about the influences of promiscuity, drug abuse, most of all, Satanism. Ryo would also have a ban play and lectures would give speeches. Oh, while she or some other over-comer led the children in prayer throughout the whole week. These enrichment weeks, and that's the crazy thing about it is that it's a week. You know, when the Christ for yo-yo's for Christ guys came through like, that was a couple hours. - Yeah, it's a couple hours. - At most, yeah, period. These were like festivals that would be held at these schools. - Yeah, 'cause those yo-yo guys, a lot of them had to go check back in with their parole officers. (laughing) - Yeah, it's so hard to be a yo-yo guy. - Yeah, they also weren't free. Re-acharged around $345 per enrichment week. - Yeah. - Which is Christ name free, man. - Yeah, and that doesn't sound like a lot, but she did suggest that schools and churches all have one enrichment per month. You had to keep enriching, otherwise it wouldn't work and wear off. - It kind of sounds like a MLM or something. It sounds like a scam. - Yeah, but if you learn how to make an enrichment week, then you can start doing enrichment weeks, and then you can also pay me for the privilege of giving you the enrichment. - Training. - Material. - Yeah. - And training, and then you can be in my downline. - Would you like to buy some top-wire? - Well, do you know that the OTC, like essentially, that's what it was. Like they did, that's why it was different than a church. It kind of felt like a weaponization of the church's ideas. This lady really thought that she was fighting Satan every day. And so they would, they viewed themselves as sort of like conscripted soldiers. But it must be said that Rhea put all the money back into bothering people about something that didn't exist instead of spending it on herself. So at least she's not a hypocrite, which I know you think is the worst thing your person can be. - You can honestly, you can kill, you can, on a mask, you can steal, you can do it. But as long as you say I'm sorry, I'm cool with it. As long as I expected it from you, what do you call a blood that wears blue? What a hypocrite. Interesting. You better be careful. You just got put on the fucking hit list. - Edi, IE, T-U-N-E-S dot com. - Dot com. - And one every piece of merch keeps him one inch away from the poor. - Amen. Go get your ham daddy hats, please. - But while Rhea would not be the person who would take her highly paranoid Christian busy body overcomers and turn them into murderers, she did bring all of them together through her personal quest against Satan and his minions. See in February of 2007, Rita Groenwald and overcomers through Christ held an enrichment week at a high school in the town of Rudaport. There, Rhea met, or the Dorp of Rudaport. There, Rhea met a 40 year old English teacher named Marinda Stain, who's not related at all to Cecilia Stain. - It's just a coincidence. - But while most of the people who saw the overcomers were at most impressed with their message, Marinda came out of her schools enrichment week saying that it had been the highlight of her life and that the overcomers had also somehow helped her to stop smoking. I guess you can overcome a lot of stuff through Christ. - It just seems like they're giving them a lot of credit. It's like Rhea key. - Yeah. And while this woman sounds innocent enough, and back then, she absolutely seemed like she was just a regular 40 year old English teacher, Marinda Stain would become one of Cecilia Stain's most violent murderers just a few years later. There's like Marinda Stain's pretty much her text Watson. - And she was an English teacher, which is why you wonder, like when you have that super mean teacher at school. (laughing) - There an inch away from killing. - Yeah. Now about five or six months after Marinda became an overcomer, Rhea got a call from a former Satanist begging for help. - Do you know over 30% of women can overcome? (laughing) - The person on the phone said that her name was Petro, but in reality, Petro was Cecilia Stain, 26 years old when she kicked off this entire operation. - 26. (laughing) - She was actually 26. She just presents as a hard 38. - She just has, she's got what you said. She's got seven or 11 clerk face. - Yeah. Now Cecilia Stain was born Cecilia brand industry. December of 1980, Tamara and Pete Brand. Pete was an electrician at various gold mines around the town of Harrismith and seemed to be a normal person, as was his wife, Mara. Yeah, because the entire book all they do is interview them while they're barbecuing. You know what I'm saying, right? You're in the chunks of all the chapters talking to her parents. It's just them barbecuing. Yeah, they're very normal. Yeah, and they're all like, well, you know, it's Sicily a crazy. They're religious, but not overly so. And Sicilya seemed to be a fairly normal, if mischievous, goth girl. Sicilya didn't have any friends and spent all her time wandering the ruins of abandoned buildings catching spiders and snakes. She also had a discipline problem, but not too bad. I mean, she attacked anyone who gave her shit, but her father always said she was really proud. He was really proud of her for not ever letting anyone walk all over. She smashed windows. She threw rocks at cars. Nothing horrific. Nothing really that bad. Seems like those were all bad things who listed, but not that compared killing 11 people and torturing them and then cut them up. Yeah, she's not Joseph Fretzel. Like, you know, like she should get their fingers crossed. But in keeping with the times Sicilya was expelled from school her freshman year, 1994, not for being mischievous, but because she was a goth kid. And therefore must be involved in the occult. Now, this is a line from his from her father that she said that he always had issues with how Sicilya viewed herself. So this is what it was, even though like he was supportive of her rebelliousness. I just thought this was a funny comment. She's always been the greatest alcoholic, greatest lesbian and greatest satanist, Pete says. That's what happened when that time when she got expelled from school too. She never meant it. She just said it. She must have said something similar to friends, but for someone at school, I think the court should refer to my child for psychological treatment. I think that she has a psychological problem. She had never been raped or molested or anything. I never even hit her. What do you want to meddle? Let me wear a suit up on me. This accusation was so bad that cops even searched her family's home to look for evidence of further satanic activity. Sicilya was there after moved to another school where at this time she was just seen as a pain in the ass instead of an occultist. She was asked to leave, but Sicilya would often lie and brag that she'd met all the requirements to graduate when she was still in the ninth grade. And therefore, she'd never needed to finish high school. You know they ask you, you know they actually offer for me to teach Jim. That's how good a student I was. She looks like a deputy. Now by age 16, Sicilya left the goth world and devoted herself to God. This is like the equivalent of like, you know when someone gets sober or 21. Yeah. You know they get really serious about it. And they're like, well, you know, I don't drink anymore. And you'd be like, you find out they haven't drank in like 25 years. It's like it kind of feels like at the way she left satanism. She like, she literally just had black shirts and like a nose or a better redder book. Yes. She underwent deliverance, which is a spiritual practice in which curses are broken and demons are driven out. It sounds like those videos you see at church services where people are exercised in front of the whole congregation. One of my favorite is priority deliverance. It's only $2.99 more, but deliverance comes immediately with a way for it to get cold. Yeah. Apparently it's a square like a pig. But what no one really knows is why and how Sicilya came to be such an effective manipulator. Like there's a black hole of information when it comes to Sicilya in her late teens and early 20s. Pretty much all we know is that she went to church and she was briefly married to a Romanian. The way I kind of I think certain things are history comes around to a person finding their place. Yeah. I do think that they are in that way where like she had a almost like I guess that's what you'd call it. It was an unremarkable life like in a not in a bad way. She's a normal life. She had her son. She had a daughter, right? I think that they had that a daughter. They had a daughter. It seemed relatively quiet and home. But this obviously was brewing inside of her. I view her her manipulation style as being different than any cult leader we've ever had. And the way I view this is like like a gravity where she used everybody's sympathy against them versus like creating like cult leaders a lot of times create a problem and the solution, the dialectic right? So they create the problem amongst the people and tell them about the problem. And then but they provide a solution. In this case, she was the problem. Yeah. Which I find interesting. She made herself like the kickoff point of the cult. Yeah. And unlike a lot of other cult leaders, I've never seen another cult gamify themselves. The way it's just like you know, it's just like QAnon is like that's what QAnon is. It's the gamification of conspiracy theory. And this is and she does the exact same thing. She gamifies the entire thing and larps it. Everything becomes a larp and eventually, but you larp yourself and if being a fucking murderer. I just larp myself and become a comedian. Yeah. I just kill audiences. Oh, well, things come back into focus in 2003 when Cecilia married a cop named Andre Stain during a shotgun wedding. Now their marriage wasn't strained or abusive, but it is important to know that they lived completely separate lives. Andries had work in video games to keep him busy while Cecilia had her own hobbies. She had an extensive collection of almost 500 knives and also had an impressive collection of 127 zipo lighters. It's not the knives, but the zipo collection, it's lesbian coded. I do feel like in that way, it does reveal that she was, she's definitely at least bisexual. Let me show you my lighter. Let me use this lighter. I can take a bad look at that pussy. You would have a signature gas from a lighter, would you? But really knives were her main passions by passion. And she carried one with her everywhere she went. Now from what it seems, collecting knives and zipos weren't enough to fill Cecilia's day. Because when she was pregnant with her second child in 2006, she contacted Rhea Groenwald and the rest of the overcomers without landish tales of Satanism run amok. Because they're always trying to figure out like what was the real trigger point? And the closest thing I got, which was it, but it wasn't. It was two years later, which was the Nick Dedrick's the high school slashing the samurai stabbings that happened at the time. Well, we'll definitely get into the samurai's not a stabbings like later on. Yeah. And how was she as a mother? Like was she normal? Whatever. She had to pay attention to her children or then even bring it up. Yeah. So we don't know one thing that we don't, she probably abused her children. We'll get to that here in a second. Yeah. And we also don't really know whether or not she had begun this talk at home. Like if the concept of these things started at home and she built up the law because oftentimes with these Satanists, remember Mike Warnke? The idea is that like they like one day, quote unquote, wake up from their programming. And then they remember everything that's happened because the Satanists are supposed to put a layer of hypnotism over you where you don't remember anything that happened. Well, her husband did say that he never believed any of her lies or her delusions. Like he said, he had heard it all and was like, no, this is also a warning to all you husbands out there that go get lost in video games and the other room for six hours at night. Stuff happens when you're in there on Baldur's Gate three. Check in. How about check in, make dinner? Yeah. So believe it, Satan. All right. Now we don't know why Cecilia chose the overcomers and we don't really have any evidence of Cecilia doing anything like this before. It could be that she'd been hearing the Satanist storyline her whole life and wanted to try it on for a while. They got out of hand. Or it could be that she saw an opportunity for a scam way to make money. It could also be that she was just really fucking bored. And when people like this get bored, this is what they do. It sounds like it's the steps up. It sounds like it starts because you just wanted to try to be a Satanist to somebody else. And eventually she, because it's mostly about the scam in the beginning. Yeah. Well, I mean, the scam took a little while to come in. Yes. I mean, when Cecilia called Rhea, she already had a massive backstory all cooked up. And Rhea believed every single word Cecilia said because Rhea had been waiting her entire adult life for someone from the Satanic community to reach out for help. This woman was begging for this interaction. Yeah. She wanted a Satanist to come forward. And I, you know, in that way, I think Rhea sort of created the scenario. And it all worked out for her. It almost I sometimes we've talked a little bit about like roles. I think people want to fulfill roles in life. Yeah. And I think at some point Cecilia's like, I'll be your Satanist. Yeah. Now Cecilia told Rhea that she'd cut bonds with the Satanic church in October of 2006 about a month before the call. And she'd converted to Christianity after undergoing deliverance, which had expelled all the evil spirits that had been living within her. They made a crazy noise when they came out too. They looked like little candles of corn. Smiley though, Cecilia did not say that she was the one who needed help. Instead, she invented a woman named Andrea, who was a former friend and current witch in the Satanic church. Cecilia claimed Andrea had two children that she was going to sacrifice in a Satanic ritual. And Cecilia needed Rhea's help to save the children. Can you even imagine that my fucking, my Satanic union call ran out? And I was doing that pain even though I ain't got no Satanic rituals all - Oh yeah, and she completely made up Andrea. - Yeah, absolutely. She made up. everything okay rea said that there was a place in kruger's door where abandoned children could be safely held if only they could get the kids away from andria but the silly said that as a former satanist she knew that any member of the satanic church could gain entry into any place they wanted i still and you right now you show you how easy it is oh look well i believe a question easy get right in there it's so easy to say rea frankly tried to come up with another option but just when the pressure was taken to its maximum point that's what Cecilia was so fucking good at it's taking the pressure to the maximum point Cecilia would relieve the pressure by saying she received a message the andria's children have been taken a safety because real was calling people she was called people she was called people in the city she was trying to get the orphanage involved she was trying to do all this stuff and cook it up because this is a great get for her this is an amazing like i'm a flip this whole satanist community everybody's going to fucking love me everybody's going to be overcoming down of course this is all just a story but the immediacy of it had fully pulled rea into Cecilia's world but because Cecilia was a convincing storyteller who knew how to hook people that were obsessed with satanism it would take years before rea could pull herself out again years years see from what Cecilia told rea everyone in her family was into the occult and Cecilia a 42nd generation satanic which was intended to have been sacrificed in a satanic ritual by her father the diabolical mr brats yes it is i miss the brand and i barbecue chicken on the weekends i have a nice class of word wine with my wife in the back yard most devilish mr bram was supposedly a high priest in the satanic church yes we're gonna go down to the flea market i want to look at a long table for the dining room to a buck the wall so we have a place up on our drinks when we play board game the most devilish and devilish of activities well likewise Cecilia's mother was a witch named Elise with a similarly strong satanic bloodline biological love biological mother biological mother yes and to prove it Cecilia showed rea a picture of a witchy woman saying this is my mom except this picture was not Cecilia's biological mother instead it was a picture of Spanish actor Arlie Hoveir who played the vampire with the slick back blonde hair in the first blade movie okay okay well you know that's good choice yeah it is but we know if you're gonna choose a vampire yeah oh yeah she's attractive yeah she said that's her mom yeah she said that's her mom yeah mama mama be hot yeah and plus no one saw that blade yeah what i want the first blade was great first blade was great yeah first she's a blade too right uh i think she was in the first place oh she's in the first blade then you know bad choice but that's the thing is that she knew that rea wouldn't have seen blade because blade is a satanic movie yeah so she knew that's the thing about her is that she knew all of these little she knew all the areas that she could hit because she knew which areas that rea avoided you know she knew these people she could she's a fucking master manipulator and it played they had Stephen Dorp as we've heard from other satanic panic stories Cecilia claimed that her father subjected her to ritualistic abuse from birth because being tortured ritualistically somehow makes you a stronger satanic which according to according to the podcast the best friend by Candace who is was rea's best friend um chronicles of the Kruger's drug killers she talks about how her father Cecilia told her that her father would torture her fetus while she was inside of her pregnant mother by sticking needles up her vagina into the fetus right which i don't think it doesn't work it doesn't work like that i don't know i've never been there i've never done it never tried it now know how far my finger goes up with the pregnant lady and so you stick it up there but what that does is it starts to destroy your personality in the womb that's how you get multiple personality disorder when you're born the dumbest fucking thing i've ever heard in my life or is it so dumb that it's right well you put needles up there she could be born with stigmata well speaking of stigmata Cecilia claimed that she had supernatural powers from the satanic ritual abuse those powers however had gone away when she converted to Christianity which is the magical equivalent of saying you have a girlfriend in Canada and like the girlfriend lie Cecilia was able to talk a big game about what she had once been capable of she said that she had telepathy telekinesis she could walk on water pretty which made herself a fucking x-man to give it an edge of reality Cecilia would take screenshots of horror movies about the occult presumably stuff like the devil's reign or to the devil a daughter fucking incredible movies then she would insist that the fuzzy figure in the background was her demonstrating some sort of magical power i've got to tell you on this borg knife was such a professional i think this was my favorite set because we got this incredible pasta salad because i requested it as an agent of the devil yeah pasta salad is satanic i fucking hate pasta salad really when i'm also it's not satanic it's actually quite angelic because it's bad i don't like pasta salad you know my around two people that don't like pasta salad i like macaroni salad i like macaroni salad pasta salad no it's macaroni salad but macaroni's pasta i don't like whole pasta macaroni salad is not pasta salad pasta salad i would say is different entirely it's entirely different subbracch well what kind of pasta is a pasta salad rigatoni rigatoni is in that or yes rigatoni i would put it's a cold noodle salad how about spaghetti can you spaghetti to pasta salad no no why not because then it's spaghetti if you make it if you put spaghetti cold spaghetti get out of my house although i love cold spaghetti i do too only to grab a whole handful of it why do we do i throw it why am i totally fine with eating cold as a meal cold egg elbows noodles cold or teen noodles i'm fine with eating it but cold spaghetti i'm like what is this like if you deserve me cold spaghetti i'd be like are you fucking with me yeah is this are you trying is this like you trying to tell me to go fuck myself i mean serve yes put a handful out of your fridge that's different delightful that's my right that's your spaghetti that's my spaghetti it's bizarre it's a bizarre way to eat spaghetti no it's fun you gotta just give in give in man you gotta relax back to Cecilia Cecilia she likes spaghetti but Cecilia claimed to be able to morph into a werewolf or a vampire producing fang teeth and or a blood every time she did it these transformations greedy it's one of the other well she was she was officially aware of yes she was officially aware of yes these transformations were actually caught on video but unfortunately for the hopeful believers Cecilia can clearly be seen putting in a set of fake teeth in her mouth before presenting as a werewolf what she used to do was tell the people that were closest to her that she was about to change and she'd go like oh uh uh uh uh cover in her mouth i mean it if you listen to the description of her changing into a werewolf from can this is point of view you just i just am extremely puzzled because they come in she's like she didn't ever want to show anybody the change so what she would do is go away right and then she go in another room and come back and says i'm all done being a werewolf now i just change and i change back and then she'd be like wow and then another time she fell asleep in the bed right and they all fell asleep they were supposed to be watching her she said oh i'm gonna change into a werewolf tonight they all fell asleep she woke up in the night and then she apparently she turned into a werewolf and then came back and the way she proved it all is that there was i mean this a single hair in the bed and she's like see that was when i turned into a werewolf meanwhile you got a bunch of fucking you have the flimsiest what i even call a set of hair you have a crown of hair it looks like honestly it's time it's a blooming onion yeah she has a blooming onion on her head it's just loose ass broken ass fucking weird crispy heads i'll tell you what you want to convince someone you're a werewolf while they were asleep shit on the floor per hair seriously per hair if you ate her hair would be 1800 calories but when it came to the power Cecilia claimed to still have she said that she could travel through the astral realm which is how she was able to know so much about what was happening all over the world at any given time amongst other places Cecilia said that she could travel to the moon what the moon you can go on the way to the moon you bet i go to the moon every Thursday i know it what did i go to the moon it's cold i bet i still that's the devil's cheese instead of being married to just some cop Cecilia said that she was really married to Satan yep and had proof in writing hey don't tie him fucking down like that well as a bride of Satan it was her task to open the gates of hell on earth and bring about extreme chaos to her credit though she may not have opened the gates of hell she definitely cost extreme chaos oh yes Cecilia claimed to be the most powerful witch in all of Kruger's dork which is batting the minor leagues a bit if she really was a massively powerful satanic witch to put it into perspective it's like being the most powerful witch in San Bernardino. Hey, you, I'm not messing with you, San Bernardino. It's just serious. I printed you know, it's a wrong down. It's a wrong down. I was a painter's field. No, no, no, no. You think I got witches? You know, I actually looked around and I started things like a Fresno. I'm not fucking with Fresno. I'm definitely not fucking with Bakersfield. You know who it is? San Jose. Oh, yeah. You're the best switching San Jose. Mostly you just make very good like I want to say Lengua. Well, San Jose is pretty, but that's it's a little too big like it really Oregon. Yeah, most powerful which actually I'd say the most power I've already mentioned at once, but it's similar in size as the most powerful witch in Abelene Texas. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that's about what it would be like compromise reached. But because Cecilia was such a powerful witch, her name itself was full of demonic power. So she insisted that everyone simply call her C instead of Cecilia. You couldn't say the name Cecilia. But don't you spell it out wrong? It's just the letter. I don't want to put it down here or taste because I have to powerful of a bitch. No, no, no, Jackie was here. That's what it is. No, when Cecilia turned her back on Satan, she claimed her life became very dangerous when she wasn't under constant attack from Satan's supernatural forces, which is we're constantly bothering her to try and bring her back into Satan's fold. The dangerous Cecilia said was that she would be murdered if she didn't go back because she knew too much about the workings of the satanic churches and her circles. But then why do they want her back? No, they keep trying to get her back. None of it makes sense. That's the thing is it's perfect. It's purposefully confusing because remember that this is all being fed to Rhea over a very short period of time. It's like two hangout sessions. Yes. All of this is told her told to her over two hangout sessions. She's just downloading all this information and these guys are that's why like this is the first one of these in terms of a cult. Like normally we have I actually feel on last podcast and left we came really good and got around to the idea of realizing like having sympathy with members of cults because you know a lot of times it's just like a for something better. It's looking for to for connection. There's many periods of ways normal people end up in cults, but something like this where these people really they're something about maybe it's just I and I don't want to put my full anti-religion bias in there. But there's something about this idea that I'm chosen. I have these superpowers. I have to show my the world the power of my superpowers of Christ and this woman needs me, which is literally what she then keyed into. Yes. And behind everything was Cecilia's father, the fiendish malevolent wicked Mr. Brad. Yeah. You know I just bought us all season tickets to six flags. We can go whatever we want except for the big time summer holiday most heavily and Saturday. Now as far as I can tell this is all told to Rhea Groenwald during the first two times that she and Cecilia met. And sometime after the second meeting Cecilia called Rhea using a different voice to tell Rhea that Cecilia was in trouble. Oh, Rhea dropped what she was doing and raised to Cecilia's apartment. Someone needs me. Yeah. Where she found Cecilia lying on her bed with red welts covering her back. According to Cecilia, the wicked Mr. Brand had dropped by to punish her for telling Satanic secrets. This only served to bond Rhea and Cecilia further. From that point on, if Rhea wasn't doing enrichment weeks with overcoming through Christ, she was spending her time with Cecilia. Cecilia's husband, meanwhile, just stayed out of it completely at least for the time being. Just happy to play his games. It's just like it's the only spouse of a murderer that I'm like, oh, he knew nothing. That man purposely sat with noise cancelling headphones. Yeah. He was becoming a nothing in the other room. Oh no, he abs every time they came over, Rhea's every time Cecilia's friends came over, they either went straight into Cecilia's room or he would leave the room altogether. I want nothing to do with this. I want absolutely nothing to do with this bullshit. But in order to really hook Rhea, Cecilia up the stagecraft to flesh out the world she was creating. And this is where she's honestly fucking genius. One day, Rhea arrived at Cecilia's house to find that Cecilia's child had blisters on her hand. Cecilia claimed that Mr. Brand had come over and pressed the child's hands onto a hot stove to punish Cecilia for refusing to return to Satan. Yes, then he used all the ice. After that, Cecilia got a hold of a bunch of burner phones so she could send Rhea threatening text messages that were supposedly from a whole series of witches in Satan's service. All this made Rhea so fucking wet. Like that's a thing. All this just, she loves this. These messages would threaten both Rhea and Cecilia with murder, saying that there was nothing either of them could do to stop it. But to keep her off balance, Cecilia would also send messages from these numbers praising her for resisting Satan. I wish it could be like Cecilia, I wish I could get out. One number supposedly belonged to the Andrea character, Cecilia created, who kept sending Rhea messages about how terrified she was that her children were going to be sacrificed. Another number claimed to be Elise, Cecilia's fake mother. Here's an example of a text from Elise, who told Rhea that Satan communicated with Cecilia in her dreams. "Her eyes are broken and there's something there I haven't seen before. If I can see it, the witches can too. So if you can help, please say so. She can't bear any more of this. You know that right. She keeps saying she's okay, but she's not okay and Mr. Brand won't stop." And as far as Rhea is concerned, that's from a Satanic high witch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, sexy. You got to call your Satanic witches. You can't just feel attached. I just feel like it's a blame. You're like, do we need this in writing? I feel like this is a lot of Satanist secrets that are all just kind of been willing, Italy, shadowed over the place. If he was like, maybe if they're coming for you, they should technically come for them and come for us. Yeah. Now this doesn't make any sense coming from a high priestess of Satan. No, but that's part of the point. Yes. Cecilia was trying to confuse Rhea on every level. And it's very important to remember that Rhea wasn't looking at all this like a bothersome if elaborate prank. As far as she was concerned, she was in direct contact with agents of Satan in their most evil form, people who sacrifice and eat babies several times a year and they're unholy ritual. But I'll have them know me and my, my team of saviors were going to overcome all over those ritual babies. We're going to overcome all over these witches. We're going to overcome all of these devils. We're going to overcome and come and overcome and overcome. We're going to leave them dripping with the power of Christ. But while Cecilia did make Rhea's world unbearably terrifying, she also confirmed every awful thing that Rhea had ever suspect. She's so happy. Yeah. Life has purpose. There really was a satanic kebal, which made Rhea's life far more interesting and made her group overcomers through Christ. That much more important. Yeah. There used to be just a bunch of shit heads in a conference room. Now they are fighting the devil themselves. Yeah. Now Rhea of course couldn't keep Cecilia to herself forever. In late 2007, Rhea introduced Cecilia to Candace Rhea vise who would design the logo for over overcomers through Christ. Now you can see here what I did is it's a O for overcomers and a team. That's like a crucifix. That's what Christ died on. And this year, that's for Christ. They're creative. They're good. Candace and Cecilia hit it off and soon became lovers. And before long, Cecilia told Candace her story about being a reformed satanist. And just like Rhea, Candace believed every single thing Cecilia told her poor poor Candace. Poor Candace also said that she had what's the term? It's that with the thing when you got when you're pathologic, when you've been having to be with somebody. Oh, co-dependent. Yeah. She said that she had co-dependent problems and she and her. There's something about her. Like have you ever seen Cecilia talk? No. They're in footage of her talking. You can tell exactly what this type of person is. You know somebody who does a thing, I can't stand over familiarity. When people are overly familiar with me, my first thing is get the fuck away from me. Yeah. That freaks me out. This but sometimes has an opposite, opposite effect on people like that are co-dependent. Candace viewed Cecilia did the thing where she's like, I don't believe in small talk. We're going to talk all about my horrible memories. And then Candace was like, Oh my God. You know, I mean like so excited to hear about your trauma because then you get closer. Yes. It's much better than talking about the weather. Yeah. Yeah. Because the weather sometimes kills you. Yeah. Especially in South Africa. Yes. And two things where we held a maternal role. Candace was in a romantic position and both of them were convinced they needed to save Cecilia. What's interesting though is that Candace was in a romantic position, Candace and Rhea hardly ever spoke to each other nor did they talk to each other about Cecilia at least in the beginning. It's because they were fucking jealous and I actually pretty certain that Rhea and Cecilia slept together as well. You think so? She floated. Cecilia floated that Rhea and her slept together and Rhea said obviously not because she had to, but I have a feeling a little bit of fucking Cisarin was going on in that fucking apartment and I'm not talking about making graphs. Now eventually Rhea Groenwald brought the rest of the overcomers through Christ into the game and soon enough the so called satanic high holidays became big events for the group because of Cecilia. On Valpurgis Noct or Saouin or what have you, the overcomers would all gather at Cecilia's apartment to sing and pray while playing Christian music in the background. And this was all while Cecilia put on an intense hour long performance. Honestly, this must have been so cool. This must have seen the boss in that really like all Broadway. Yeah, they've like the 800-seater. Like she would put on hours long fake possessions. Yeah. Well, they weren't necessarily possessions. They were attacks. See before things would kick off, the overcomers believed that they needed to prevent demons from entering Cecilia's body. So they would plug her up by putting their hands over her nose, mouth, ears, vagina and butthole. Yes, I said butthole. You don't think the stinkiest mouth ain't the perfect rest in place for the devil himself. Now is she naked? No, she was doing over the clothes. Yeah, big old pants. Well, they didn't really cover it. No, you see, you dumbass, man. Is that what I have them do is to hit two fingers and press the fabric of my pants into my butt hole like a stopper. And they would do the same for my pussy holes. See, you're not an overcomer. You're an oversharing. But once you enter the performance game, I was overcoming. But at around 11 p.m., Cecilia would start jerking around and screaming. She would make bizarre sounds of pain while blood bubbled out of her mouth. According to Cecilia, this is because witches had forced her soul to leave her body via astral projection to the location where that high holiday satanic ritual was taking place. At that time, it was taking place in Delaware. How was she making blood come out of her mouth? We'll get to that in a second. Cecilia's soul would bond with a kidnap child that was being sacrificed on an altar somewhere in Krueger's door. And the overcomers believed that if they prayed hard enough, they could save both Cecilia and the child. They also believed that if they failed, Cecilia would die right in front of them. And of course, the child would die as well. Cecilia, you break it by heart. But around midnight, Cecilia would suddenly become calm and announce that her soul had returned to her body. We did it, y'all. She then clean up the blood that had bubbled out of her mouth and would tell everyone to leave, making sure to add that they better be prepared for the next high holiday. It's me, Jackson's, the tanning general. And I got to say, I'll get too old for this shit. Now the thing that a lot of these overcomers would point to is something that couldn't be explained was the incredible amount of blood that would come out of Cecilia's mouth during her spiritual attacks. How, they would ask, could someone spontaneously make themselves bleed from their mouth in the volume that Cecilia did without cutting or biting herself? Well, the answer is more cheap dumb tricks. The key here is dumb tricks. You would really be surprised. I think the audience would really be surprised how much confidence can sell things. And if you're in the throes of the cell already, where you have the whole thing going on, people don't want to see. That's the biggest thing about is that people are, you would be very surprised at what people won't see if they don't want to see that. They don't want to see you scamming them, but I feel, because Candace started talking about this event herself. And on some levels, she wondered what is happening here. Yeah. It's almost like when people play along with hypnotists. Yes. Well, according to Cecilia's ex-girlfriend Candace, Cecilia would take a surgical glove and cut the finger off. She would then draw her own blood with a syringe and fill each finger. She then tie off the finger and then put the blood balloon in her mouth. Well, it's a murder fist. Yeah. And except she used real blood. Amen. That makes us posters, I guess. No, it just makes all of you very sticky from all the hyphrodite corn syrup. Yes, it did. Kero, love it. Yes, you. Well, later when she felt like having a satanic fit and needed an extra push, she would pop one of the fingers of blood with her teeth, which would enable her to spit a large amount of blood that seemed to prove that satanic witches were attacking her organs. And I've seen videos of it. It looks fucking terrifying. She does a good job. It is also a group of them all going like, how am I going to be like, how am I going to be like, how am I going to be like, because they all go do the tongue prayers on you. They're all having a great time. So does she have a blood balloon in her mouth like the whole speech? Yeah. Well, that's the thing is that she goes quiet. This is like she'll go very quiet. She sits and she kind of sits and she sits silently and she lays down, rigid, down the attack starts. Well, she can't talk because her soul has left her body. Annie, you fucking idiot. That's so stupid. So consistent. At least. But all this sounds absolutely crazy. And it is. Oh, yeah. But Cecilia was just getting started. One by one, she was starting to draw more people from the overcomers to her side. They believed in her bravery. They worshipped it. But more importantly, they trusted her inside knowledge of the occult. It also made them, I'm going to go on a limb and just say, feel cool. Yeah. Because Cecilia became the star of OOTC. Yeah. But you had to forget that too. It's like within this, she's getting, but when we talked about this positive validation, she is getting people all being like, oh my God, Cecilia, we care so much about you. Oh my God, Cecilia, what's wrong with you? And in that, she turned the whole organization on its head because the entire fucking thing became about her. Yeah. And how about Candace and Rhea? How many overcomers are there at this point? I want to say there was like maybe 10. No, it was bigger than that. It was overcomerced by Christ was the, they had a core own cult is only like six people. Yes. They had their own board, but it was mostly courses you paid to go take. Yeah, maybe like 20. Yeah. So you see B. Oh, very much. Exactly the same. Well, Cecilia created a world for these people to exist within a world that no one else could see or experience. And it was within that world in the name of battling the satanic church that Cecilia would command her followers to murder 11 people. And that is where we'll pick back up next week for the Kougar's door of cult murders part two. This is thick. This is really fucking thick. There's going to be a three part series. Yeah, because the next stuff like we know it's heard of this really out in America. There's some coverage of it, but it's small. I never heard of this shit before. This is I was I literally just stumbled upon this in a documentary and I can't believe that we had not heard about the story, especially for how much satanic panic and we've covered all over the years. Yeah. But this is very, I just find it, it's, it's just getting thicker and honestly, it just gets dumber. It does. It's that's, this is also one of those cases, which actually we found a couple of times where there's something about the dumb ramping up the violence. Like there's something about those two. I don't know why we saw it with the most violence is very stupid. Where you have to be kind of stupid to do it. Yeah. In many ways. Yes. This happened between 2012 and 2016. 2000. Yeah. Well, the first murders were 2012 was the 2012. The first series, the satanic murders were 2012. Yeah. It's fucking wild. Yeah, but this brand new. Yeah. 2012 2016. So, hey, guys, if you're looking to start a satanic cult, there's still time. Don't let anybody tell you what it's past. Life ain't over at 30. You can start a cult. Now it's actually safer for you to start a satanic cult than having child. All right. Think about that. Go to bjr.com/lastpodcast on the left. You could watch us yell and scream and flop about. You also can see us live on Tuesday's for last stream on the left. It's fun. It's good. You like it. You know that you do go to at LP on the left on all of the social horsements. Yeah. That's right. For the fucking garbage. Europe. We are coming. We are overcoming to you. Overcoming the all of the wonderful countries that you're just not coming to mainland Europe at all. We're going to the island surrounding mainland Europe. That's good. That's good. You're going to get coming to London and Reykjavik. Good. All you island people. We're coming to you. We cannot wait. Go to last podcast and let that come. You can get those tickets right there. Los Angeles. Brooklyn. London and Iceland. We're going to be coming. So come on out. Check out tickets last podcast on the left.com. Where you can find it. All right. We'll see soon back in Hale State, who's been relying this whole time. Yeah. It's got nothing because you know what's funny about all this shit. Almost got nothing to do with state. Yeah. It's all God. Yeah. It really is. That's so impressive. You know what? Scary. Sky of all. Yeah. Unhugging. I'm a Hale Satan again. Thank you. All right. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Today he deserves it. Gain us. Yeah. Yeah.