And so then the words became real and all of a sudden and then I was like, forgive my trespasses. I forgive those who trespass against us. And I was like, oh my goodness, like, wow, God gives us forgiveness to pass on to forgive other people. Like there's this amazing world that opens up in Scripture that is like a whole other world. It's the kingdom of God. That is like, wow, it is so mind-blowing that I'm like, I wish everyone can have a taste of this because who wants to keep perpetuating the same patterns and behaviors and banging our heads against the wall and same fighting and the same addictions and the same, you know, it's just like, wow, like here's literally a narrow door to pass through into this vast abundance. That's Cherie and De Roche and this is the story of the Brachew here. A podcast dedicated to the stories of the people living in and around of this Salish Sea. I'm your host Chris Wargler, and it's my pleasure to get to sit down with people to hear about the pivotal and life-changing stories that brought them to the point that they're at in their lives right now. In 2009, Cher had a chance encounter with a gentleman and a music festival. This meeting would wind up changing both their lives. They got married, moved to a small Gulf Islands, had a child together, and embarked upon a journey that included playing music, opening up a restaurant together, and so much more. Cher will talk about these experiences that she's had in her life with her husband Matthew, as well as Cher will open up immensely describing the difficulties that she faced being a new mother. These challenges that she had would ultimately lead her to developing a relationship with Jesus. Cher and I will talk extensively about this in the interview, and it was amazing. Cher is such a great storyteller, and I found myself deeply moved and inspired by the journey that Cher has been on, and everything she shared with me about it during this interview. This is a great one. Something else I'd like to share with you today is a service I'm providing to help people record their oral history. A lot of people think about recording a family member's life story, but sadly, never actually do. I believe that everyone has stories worth preserving and wisdom to share. I'm providing an easy way for people to create a high quality and comprehensive audio memoir for your family and future generations to cherish. The process would begin with preliminary interviews to become acquainted with you and your stories. Next using professional recording equipment comes the recording process, and then I finish it off with creative editing techniques to bring out the best of you and your storytelling. The final recording is all in your own voice, and it is an amazing opportunity for you to sentence to get a true understanding of who you actually are, but also functions as a set of footprints for family to follow. The lessons you've learned along the way, your personal reflections, life experiences, and family history. These recordings can be as long as you'd like, and I'm here to help. To find out more, you can email me at
[email protected]. Once again, that's all one word my audio memoir at outlook.com. You can find that written down in the show notes below, and if you have any questions you'd like to ask me about this, I'd be more than happy to answer them. And now a little bit of music, and then my interview with Cherieanne Tobroche. Thank you. I really appreciate you coming over to do this, Cher. Thank you for asking. I've put it off for a while because I don't know. I feel like I don't have a lot to say. I know you have a lot to say. I don't know. Yeah, just what do I have to say that is a value? Well, we're going to find out. People are going to hear in the next hour and a half. You have a lot to say, a value. But yeah, anyways, it's interesting how time works because I looked on the old Facebook messenger there, and I think that I contacted you a year ago. Oh. But it just didn't work out. Yeah. But here we are. Yeah, divine timing. Divine timing. Yeah. Okay, well, the first traditional question of this podcast is what brought you to Pender Island? And so what brought you to Pender Island, Cherieanne? Matt and I met in 2009. And we fell madly in love right away, met at a music festival. And we spent every day we could after that and moved in together to a place in Cordova Bay. And then we found a place in Brentwood Bay that we moved to and bought a bowler. And we had it on our hearts. We're like, you know what, let's sell everything and let's go to Mexico. Let's just go on a road trip. So we had done all our taxes. I was always late on my taxes and, you know, I'm not very timely. But we got everything done. And then we had to go on a road trip to a wedding. And my little niece was born. And so we were doing this little tour around. And as we were touring, we were going to Calgary and driving around on our way back. We had a wedding to go to on Salt Spring. And we were like, well, let's do a couple island hops before we get there. And so we're driving out to the ferry, you know, not knowing that there's like one or two ferries a day. So we had missed the morning ferry. And so we had hours. And we're like, well, let's just drive. So we drove around. And that day, I had really been feeling a call to set roots down, which was the opposite of what we had intended on doing. And at the time, I was more spiritual, new age in that sort of realm. So I would, you know, talk to the universe. That's how I would interact. And I'd be like, universe, like, what am I supposed to be doing? Like, why am I feeling we've just decided we're going to sell everything and go to Mexico. Why am I now all of a sudden feeling a sense of rooting down somewhere? And so we drove down the little side road. And it was like the blueberry farm area. And we couldn't turn around because of the the bowlers. We finally found a blueberry farm to turn around and we turned around and we got out and and went to buy some fruit. And there's this, I think, a Sikh gentleman or and he had his holy book and he looked up at us. And he said, you too, you're so in love. He's like, you need to settle down by land, get married and have a baby. And we're like, just looked at him and we just laughed like, ha ha, you're funny. You know, I'm like, bought a bunch of blueberries and we're like, that was not funny. And then we got in our bowler and you know, went across and our first stop was main island. And it wasn't, wasn't my vibe, it wasn't our vibe. We're just like, left main island. We want to go to Saterna. Pender wasn't even a thought, but Saterna didn't have any camping. It was, you know, and I was like, okay, so we'll go to Pender. And as soon as we got off the ferry on Pender and just went around the corner by the recycle place, we just both looked at each other and said it feels so good here. And we just pulled around and we went to the market and we just started talking with people and we're like, wow, like, these are our people. These are our, these are our communities. Like it just felt that these are, this is our tribe. I don't know, it just felt like we were at home. And so we drove around and I was like looking at the realty boards everywhere. And this was back in 2011, I think. And so we were, I was, we were looking at the boards and nothing was selling. It was back when it was a bit of a recession here, I think. So houses were really reasonable. And we were like, oh my goodness, look at this one. And we went to go look at one cross from the lake. And at that day, just gone off the market. And after the fact we were grateful because it would have been a big fixer upper. And I said, well, there's this other one I really wanted to look at and Matt was like, I don't know, looks like it's a bit too dark, but we'll go check it out. And so we went up to our house now. And as soon as we walked into it, I just burst into tears. And I just was like, this is our home. Like this is my house. It was such a beautiful little cottage. 620 square feet. It just this little half acre and it just everything. It was everything because when we first met the first conversation we had was what is your dream? And both of us were like, live on a island with a rain barrel. And you know, and it was just so funny how we're like, here's this island home with a rain barrel and everything that our dream was. And we're like, okay, so we bound a mortgage broker and were able to buy our home. And it just was meant to be. So then we bought our place next year, got married and then the next year, got a baby. And it wasn't until years later when all of a sudden I remembered that man. I was like, oh my goodness, he literally, I felt how to prophetic word for us. Like he felt like God spoke to him, you know, as I was asking, you know, universe God, whatever you want to call it, I was asking what are we to do that exact morning. And this man had said, settle down by land, get married and have a baby. And that's exactly what we did. And I didn't even, you know, you look back and you go, there's all the pieces that all came together. And this is where we're meant to be. I feel like God has planted us here for whatever purpose.
he has for us. That is amazing. That is one of the most beautiful stories I've ever heard told about somebody's eventual landing on the island. But as soon as you got by the recycling center, you guys. As soon as we went around that corner, we looked at each other like, "It feels so good here." A lot of people I've talked to about their stories coming here and it was a feeling. As soon as I got here, because every island feels really different. Whoever lives there, they're like, "This is my island. This is part of me." That's interesting, too, because it comes to think of it, "Yes, every island does feel different." But that difference actually demonstrates itself very early on, I find. You don't need to drive around for long to realize, "Whoa, this is not like Pender Island." No, yeah. That's a beautiful thing. They all have a unique quality to them. Well, first of all, congratulations on following that delayed-fold advice and making Pender Island to your home. Maybe let's just explore how those first five years went, because he said, "You guys got married in the first year and you had a child in the second year." Then, how did you and Matt find your footing on the island in terms of work and the experience that you had on his island? Matt was a dry-weller. He is a dry-weller by trade and I was a hairstylist by trade. I had a home business before I moved. I set up a rented chair in the city, so I would commute to town and he would commute to town because there was no work on the island. He tried to find work, but Danny Martin was the dry-weller man at the time and he had most of the business because that was where he was. Then we had Phoenix and I thought, "Okay, well, I can't work in town. I think I'm just going to go to my clients' homes." I think before you have a child, you're like, "I'm just going to have a baby and they're just going to fit into my life and it's going to be no problem." I got Phoenix and he was only six weeks old. I had a C-section so I was healed. I'm ready to go. Let's do this. I remember trucking Matt and Phoenix to house to house, doing colors and hair and Phoenix crying crying and just it was not a good experience. Then how am I just going to go? I can't do this. I need to not do this. Just at that time, we were hitting the bottom. We had barely enough for our mortgage payment. Matt was going to have to leave maybe to go to Vancouver to work and I had a really hard time being a mom because he cried all the time and I was really struggling. It was my worst nightmare him leaving to go work in Vancouver. I was like, "I can't do this by myself." Then literally that week Danny Martin called Matt and said, "I've been asking around about you and I've heard really good things that you're a family man and a good man and I would love to do business together. We do our own business but we come together." And ever since then, it was just the most perfect blessing and I just feel like, "Yeah, it's just been incredible." But there relationship, Danny Martin is a legend of a human being and he is such a blessing to even know and to have conversations with and just be in the presence of. He is the most humble sweet man and for Matt, he was called "Am I Danny?" To work with him, he just feels so grateful and it's been an honor. Yeah, I agree with all those statements. And for those people who listen who don't know Danny Martin are a local baseball diamond business named after him because he's been coaching the kids for like 120, 70 years or something. It's been a long time. No, but maybe 30 years and 50 I think wasn't it? What? Really? No, I think it's like, yeah, a long time. He's a legend, like, absolutely. People throw a while on the word legend but literally he is a legend. Yeah. Yeah, fantastic guy. So that's kind of amazing, right? I think that when things looked like they might not be working out then a phone call happens and then stability happens in the world of Matt's work and drywall. And then so you guys also are known because both of you are quite musical. Right, my husband's musical, I'm not. You really? Come on. No, sure, it's funny because I'll let the secret, I've faked it almost the time. Well, you've faked it pretty well. I faked it completely. He's the music, he writes the songs, he plays every day and I would just be like, okay, we'll just show me where to put my fingers and you know, and I would go to ukulele because I was like, that was the easiest instrument I figured I could play. So I played the ukulele. And I remember in the beginning, I had this little belt with this little like tambourine on the side. I would smack around. And then so I would just do what he told me to do and just try and sing along. And then the bass, I loved playing the bass, that was fun. But again, I'd make mistakes all the time. It was just, it was, it was fun. He was so gracious. And so we would, we just, we had a lot of fun. We went through so many, so many incarnations of our little band. We started, we called ourselves Stella Soul, called herself Lord and Lady Ravenshire. Like we just went through all these incarnations trying to find that fit for what we wanted to express. And then whitebird came and it just felt like the right. And then we did an album and we had met, Lauren, we went on tour. It was lots of fun. Phoenix was like two and a half. And that was, that was an experience. And I think it's, it's like most things when you have a romanticized idea of what it would be like to be on tour, be like to do something and then you go and do it and you're like, wow, this is not at all. How I thought it was, this is amazing. But I'm like, I don't think this would be the life I would want to live. So maybe you could walk us through a little bit with that tour it did look like. So when you went on tour with, yeah, Lauren, the lovely Lauren man, she's incredible. Yeah. Amazing songwriter, amazing. So she was doing a tour and we were, we opened up for her. And, and you know, we would just show up different places and then people would build it us and yeah, it was fun. We had so much fun. It was really an amazing time. So yeah, it was, it's life on the road with a child. It was only a couple of weeks, I think I can remember. Okay. So it was a super long time, but it was just the time enough to go. I don't know if this would be a life that I would want to live. Yeah, I've talked to musicians and it sounds like a grand. It sounds like it's the finest part of his plane and everything else around that. And meeting people, talking to people. That was the most amazing to connect with people and that part of it, I loved so much. Yeah, it was interesting. Okay. And you guys played numerous times on the island. Yeah, we have. Yeah. Yeah, we did. And then, and then it's funny to be like, and then we broke up. A band broke up. But we didn't. So it's funny. We just changed forms. We did an album, which, you know, it was an interesting experience. You know, Matt has written hundreds of songs. And part of me, I wish we would have done an album for each little section of music that he had written just to have a path to follow. But I think it's hard as an artist because you just want it to be so perfect. And then I think that can backfire sometimes and then you just don't end up doing anything because it's not the way you'd want it to be. And then life happens and you just move forward and do. But he's still always writes songs and they're so amazing. He's so brilliant. Matt is pretty amazing. Oh my goodness. I feel so blessed. His incredible husband, father, musician, drywaller. He just, you know, some people are just so good at things. He's just one of those people that's so good at this. A lucky guy. Yeah. He is. He's amazing. And so the love of music that Matt has and you share as well too, it led all of you. Also to an idea that you guys were going to open a restaurant that also heavily focused on having music. Yeah. The restaurant was not ever an idea in our mind. Matt had an idea one day and he said, I had a vision of doing something down at Hope Bay. And I was like, oh, okay. So we didn't even know. So we're like, okay, well, let's just have some ideas. And we thought, so we opened up a first gather, we call it. And that was in the little front building. It's the, oh, yeah, I think the nature conservancy. The nature conservancy. Yeah. That's what it is. And so we started there. And we just started a little shop with vintage and artisan and records. And so we just wanted to do something unique. And so we did that. And then we thought, well, how fun would it be to be do an open mic on Thursday nights? And we're like, Thursday nights seems like a fun night because it's a local night. And we're like, it would be really great. The idea was, is that people can bring their instruments, strum along in the crowd. And we'll just have a sing along, play along, fun time. So we started doing it. And as we were doing it, all these people started coming out of the woodwork that had never performed before, never, but they love music. And so they would come. And then we had these award-winning musicians that live on the island that wanted to come play. And before we knew it, there was like over 200 people would come down on Thursday nights. And so then our friends were doing the talk.
So we're like, you guys sell tacos and we had another friend that had a Had their little boulder like come on down and do your food and And so it was really amazing. We had like a little six-year-old right a song and she came up and saying to you know in their however old just sharing parts of themselves and it was just Had so much value to it that it just felt so amazing and the restaurant was empty and And I just actually honestly remember walking and some people were interested in the restaurant and we're like, okay, and And I remember just walking on the land and said, you know what God if you want us to do a restaurant we will do it Never worked in a restaurant before and never done anything And I said, you know what and it no one came in and then we're thinking what well Let's just start renovating a little bit and so we talked to Sam and It needed a lot of work it brought it floors. There's a lot of stuff So we just invested a little bit that we had and put into it and then we're like well Let's do something but we wanted to do it around music because I'm like Thursday nights and I we just felt like what an amazing thing for the community to have a place to have music and and So we're like and we started doing tea out of our little first gathers So like if we do a tea house then we don't have to do food So then we were like we do alcohol not so we went through all this whole process and I'm like well if we have a little bit of wine every year It's nice to have something so then we have to do food and then we went through this whole What do we even sell? How do we even do food like everything we just on the fly made up so then we made up, you know the galaxy bowls with veggies and Rice and you know we just as we went we really wanted it for the community and Then people like well, we want some meat. We're like okay Well, we'll put meat on the menu like we just but we did everything like we went to all the farms Like so on their days off I would drive we drive in get the beer from the Brentwood Brewery and And then we would go around Keating It was called and then we would go to all the farms and get the food and we got as much food from Ravenrock as we could and We wanted to support like the local Brentwood butcher we'd get our meat and we just really tried to do local sustainable food and and then we're about to launch That fall we did the year we had amazing musicians come in everyone reached out for us to come play which I thought was really cool. We didn't call anybody in except for one of our friends that we really Kaila Partt that we really loved and So Matt really created a room that was beautiful to listen to music in because doing the bit of touring We did and the playing it's like if the sounds not good as a musician. It's just it doesn't Feel as it's not as good of an experience as it can be so We got sound panels and really really listened to people because there's some people would be like I came here all the time And I couldn't hear because it was it was so loud I'm like, okay, well how can we facilitate that for people and so we put sound panels in and it just dampened the sound enough that It was an intimate experience so everything we did we just tried to To follow what what we felt the community would really like and Built a little stage and it was just amazing some of the nights there We still have people come walk up to us with tears in the eyes and go oh Thank you like we miss it and miss you guys so much and just the way the room is set up I just felt like you could be anywhere like you could be Anywhere in the world like it was just this beautiful space that facilitated an Experience that was out of your ordinary experience and because we we would fit people in at tables that people didn't even know and they you Can see the awkwardness on like I don't know these people and then all of a sudden by the end of the night there are friends and They were just connecting in a way that was beyond Just a normal moment and and it was just incredible and it was So amazing but so hard at the same time on us and as a family and we just poured everything heart souls every single ounce of ourselves into it and And it was amazing and then COVID here. We were gonna launch a tea company We're gonna launch a jewelry company all these things we had all these ideas for retail and and all these shows booked and then COVID hit and we just knew we couldn't float Float it we didn't have the Means to nor did we we just couldn't lose our house over it. It was one of those things that we had to choose our family and Yeah, well it was a beautiful space and it was really very enjoyable to watch music there But even backing up a little bit when you were talking about those Thursday night and musical gatherings There was such a buzz about those nights Yeah, and it was because musicians had a place that they could go to and rely upon as like an outdoor open Mike in the summertime to go play and then when he said there was 200 people gathered there That's a huge amount of people to be down at a little Pope Bay area There was a buzz amongst the musicians amongst People on the island that was awesome for you guys to do that and then that like you said sort of paved the way for New ideas and new possibilities of creating a restaurant, but the restaurant was a huge amount of work Oh my goodness. I had no idea and we had a mentor that would really help us and She was just so sweet and she would just smile at me when I go Oh, and then I want to put this here and that and I was just in such a world of like decorating it and making it feel beautiful and she got She was new It was so funny and after I'm like, oh my goodness. She's like, I know like Yes, it's way more than you can ever imagine because we did everything ourselves We didn't have the money to pay for anybody so good people volunteer and then so we would like I would get up and bake At five in the morning then I would cook food thank goodness. We had some helpers and then we would Do our service then we would close then we'd do all the dishes And then we would prep for the weekend shows and then we would I cooked for that and thank goodness The help that we did have was just so good that we had such an amazing team And then we'd be up super late and then you know like it just was like the cycle that was it was sustainable at all Sure, and so this next year I had my cousin was gonna come she was a chef. She's gonna cook for us and so we've started to implement like proper help for us because we couldn't maintain it but I've never worked so hard in my whole life and You know, I was just I was just considering when you're uh speaking about all that is that do you have any advice for somebody who is gonna start a restaurant in the future? Oh my goodness, you know, it's really funny as we went and talked to a couple that had a restaurant there in the past and I said so do you have any advice for us? And he just looked at me, scran the eyes and he said don't do it I was like you're so funny. I'm like no really like do you and he was like no seriously Don't do it and so it was really you know, I don't know I don't have no idea what I would say because we just honestly followed spirit the whole time and I just felt like it was We literally pivoted every moment. We had no idea what we're doing and we just wanted to run on generosity and You know and just ethics and just try and like support local food and you know and just Just do the best you can right now What's the thing you miss the most about that? You mentioned the music and those special I love the music I miss hugging people and loving people Like when we were building the front of the restaurant We were drawing out drawings and Matt had it all closed off in the front and I said babe like no You can't do that. I need a spot. I need a hugging corridor I need to like go through to hug people as they come because I love You know, I love people and I love hugging them and I think the hardest part for me was First gather I had time to really connect with people and chat with them and really hear their story and I love that and It was so busy and I was in the back most the time that I wanted to be there and You know, but I'm at the cash register sometime and I'm like oh when I want to connect and there's a whole line of people You know leaving the show and I couldn't You know connect the way that I really wanted to But I really missed that and I missed that and then when covid hit people look at me with this like horror and their eyes and go You're a hugger Yeah, but even like I said now, you know people come and some amazing musicians have been like that was the best musical moments I've had was on that stage and And you know and they would just be in tears like people just be like oh And I'm just like wow like that wasn't us we'd we had no skills in that way I just felt like we were just so guided In a way that was beyond beyond our strength we were I mean obviously skills Matt's amazing and super skilled but I don't know Fair enough okay, well divine Connection that it at work. Yeah. Well, uh here's to gather because uh it was a it was a special little place while it existed Well, I often think of that song we're here for a good time not a long time So have a good time the sun can't shine every day. Yeah, because it was a season. It was only one year Yeah, like literally barely a full year for So it was just it was interesting. Yeah. Well my hats off to you and Matt for uh for doing that Uh and something goes I really want to get into and spend quite a bit of time with if you're into it is that you you mentioned the word
spirit and God and I really want to delve into your philosophy, your experience in things that you'd like to speak about in terms of the direction that your life is on at this point, I guess, in terms of spirituality. Right. Well, since my early 20s, I've been a spiritual person. I remember the books of Celestine prophecy and there was sort of a push at that time of different books that I was like, oh my goodness, like I've always felt like there's something beyond myself, but I didn't know what it was and I always have been a seeker of truth, whatever that is I didn't know. And when I was younger, even delving in foolishness as a young person, looking for experiences, my friends would be like, oh, you need to like laugh and have fun. And I would be questioning the universe and be like, what is the purpose? Like, why are we here? And they're like, why are you so serious? Like, loose and not, you know, I'm like, no, like, why would you want to just laugh and be silly? Like what? And I've just wired that way. I don't know why. And so I've always seeked and I think often when you're a seeker, you just fall into the new age because it's so available and I fell down the new age path and when I met Matt, we were both, you know, spoke that language, like I've always had a part of myself. I feel like I kind of hid in my relationships because I wasn't in a lot of spiritual circumstances with spiritual people. And so I felt I had a bit of a double life a lot of times. And then when I met Matt, we just started talking and I'm like, you speak my language like, oh, my goodness. And he was in the same, read the same books. We're in the same spiritual path. And then on that journey, we were just so wide open and, and you know, I remember road tripping in Arizona, meeting this woman who was a mystery school teacher and we're like, okay, sure. And you know, shamanism, astral travel, like all the, like, we'll try it. We'll try it. You know, what do we do? We've meditated more than morning and night making sacred circles that we'd meditate in. You know, we just, we try, we're just wide open. We're like, we'll try anything like. And there would be a little threads of truth. But some of it we're like, no, that doesn't feel right. Like something's not not right. And, and then I remember having Phoenix and that was a really hard time with for me. I was 40 when I had him. So I had a full life and we had a full relationship and you know, we were just so in love. And even though, you know, relationships are hard, we just had a love that transcended anything I've ever known before. You know, I would always say like, this is what poetry is made of in movies and like, it was just so amazing. Like we're so connected on levels that I never thought possible. And, and then, you know, in my naivety, I thought, oh, Papers can just make everything not much better. We're going to be a little family. And we're just going to be like, so good. And then we had Phoenix. And the pregnancy was amazing and had him. And I was like, oh my goodness. This is the best thing ever. And then then you would cry and cry and cry. And I'm like, oh, I just don't understand. I don't understand this. And then, you know, not the time it was really hard. And, and I really struggled with being a mom. And I felt really guilty about it. Every mom would know what I am talking about. It's like you get implanted with mom guilt as soon as you have a baby. And he's now you're responsible for this creature in this world. And, and it was tough. And I would look at other moms and they would look at their children in a way that I didn't understand. And they would just be so doding over them. And I'm like, oh, like I'm like, I would feed him. I loved him. I knew I loved him, of course. But I wanted to get away from him often because I wanted to go, we'd have band practice at our house. And I'd be like, hurry up and feed so I can go out there and play. And, and so I can go do this thing. And I'm like, oh, I'd be so frustrated. And I had a lot of anger towards him because I'm like, you're you're taking me out of my life. Like I've got a life to live. And you're not fitting into it. And, and I would be so mad. And I'd be mad at him. And I'd be frustrated. And, and everyone else looked like they was awesome. And, and I struggled so much. And, and it was so hard. Yeah. And no one talked about it. So I'm like, I felt like I was the only one struggling. And we didn't have family. And I'm like, it was, and I remember literally screaming at the top of my lungs. Like, I hate being a mom. Like, why would anybody want to do this? Like, just didn't get it. And, and I was you know, still doing new ways stuff. I knew, you know, I came to terms with the word God that took me a long time to even move from the universe to God. And I knew God was there. And I don't really. And I always, you know, wrote my journal. And I went through so many different spiritual paths. But I just was like constantly seeking, seeking, seeking. And I was doing new moon group with a bunch of women. And we did tarot cards and incense. And, you know, just spend time be like talking about what's going on spiritually. And, and I was, I was going through depression. And, and then I remember Jesus came to me. And it was so weird. And I was like, I saw him. And he was there. And I was just like, no. You're not into you. Why? And I remember the next time we met, I said, girls, I'm like, oh, my goodness, Jesus came to me. And I said, ah, why him? I'm like, why couldn't it be somebody edgy like Joan of Ark or someone? You know, like, because I'm, you know, I was like, I'm a wild woman, you know, women who run with the wolves. Like, I can't be tame. I'm like, you know, edgy wild women. And, I was like, nope. And I denied Jesus. And I was like, and then after that, I went through an even deeper depression. And I remember literally, symbolically, we had a room in the house and I painted it dark, dark chocolate brown because I felt like I was going into this dark, the darkest depths. And I needed to have a space to go into that place. And I just felt spiritually. And I went in there. I knew God was with me, but I didn't really understand. And I remember just sitting there staring at the window. And I remember Matt coming to me and he was like, can I, what can I do to help you? I'm like nothing. And like, leave me alone. And I would do just what I needed to do to get through the day. And he was really hard. And then I remember it was like right before Easter. And I remember a, like the feeling of death and resurrection was upon me. And I was like, what is that feeling of death and resurrection? And I was like, Jesus, you're back. And I'm like, okay, like what is it about you? I don't know you personally. My grandma loved you. She would always say God bless. I only feel super uncomfortable. I'd be like, okay, grandma, whatever. And I'm like, what is it about you? I'm like, I don't know you. I've tried everything. Course in miracles, mysteries, all these things. And I'm like, I had to really be honest with myself. And I was like, it's your believers that I have an issue with. It's not you. I don't even know you. But what I see is I see hypocrisy. I see people killing each other in your name. I see nothing but like horrific things happen because I just clumped it all together. I clumped Jesus in with religion in with people with everything. And I just threw all of that away. And I'm like, okay, I'm at the bottom. I've got nothing else. I've tried to do it. I can't do it. I denied you already. I'm like, what are my other options? And I said, okay, if I'm willing to try these all the all these other things, I will give you a chance. And I will give you a I'll give you a year of my life. Because that's what I would do. I give everything year in my life. I'll give you a year of my life. But I'm like, you need to show up and you need to like, you need to show me something. You need to like prove it. You know? And so I had this Bible. And I've always tried to read the Bible, flip it open and nothing. I was like, I don't even understand this. And I flipped it open to this one place. And it's the first time the Bible ever spoke to me. And it said, if you only do these two things, love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. And I would always translate God with love that word God is love love God like whatever love love with all your heart love God that creative that creative push that just makes everything grow. And I don't even know. I was like, okay. And I'm like, okay. Well, I feel like there's the cliff notes of the Bible. But I was like, is there other versions of the Bible? Because if this is what everybody's reading, what is the problem? Like why if it says love God with all of your heart and love your neighbor, what has happened? Why is the world the way it is? And religion has, you know, been at the root of so many horrific things like. And so I just asked those questions. And then I really felt guided to go to this course that a friend was doing. It was called Life's Healing Choices. And I was like, okay. And I felt guided to go there and to go to this church gathering that we had gone in the past, but we were the new ageers there. And so I had left it at the time because I was like, where's the feminine in this? And those ones going through my depression. And I remember going to this. And the first thing was to write down what it is that you are carrying or feel bad.
about or you feel shim about or and I've always been a self-help person so I did landmark I mean I've done so many things to like deal with my past deal with how I felt about things so I felt I wasn't carrying a lot of baggage with me and I sat there and I I rode out and it was probably the hardest thing for me to be honest was my son I was so mad at him that I felt like he took away my relationship because when you're married and you have a kid you're like you take him you take him like there's so much of a dynamic that you don't expect to happen when things are really hard and I was like you took away everything and I was like I'm so mad and I'm so frustrated and then all the guilt that went along with that to even speak that word that I was frustrated at that and I just felt so selfish and it was horrible and I felt so much shame about it and I just said you take this from me and I just offered it up to him and the very next morning I woke up and I went and I saw Phoenix and I looked at him for the very first time and I felt like such a cliche because I saw him as this divine creation that God had made and I loved him more than I've ever loved him before and I was like okay Jesus you're real you are real presence that I've just brought a miracle into my life in a way that is so tangible. You have given me my relationship to my son and I looked at him and I just embraced him and I have loved him more than I've ever loved him since that moment and at that time I'm like I have I have give I give it all to you my life everything like to get to have gotten that I can't even describe it and I just said you're real I'm giving you my life and and that cliche of like I was blind and now I see and you know I'm like I was blind and he gave me sight and he gave me a heart that you know he softened my heart and heart and he you know and it's sawing easy journey because now I'm now in a super controversial place in a way you know that I wouldn't even want to call myself a Christian because of all the negativity around it but I love Jesus with all my heart because I know that he is a real presence in my life and and as we walk this walk you know to have a foundation of a rock and an anchor that is real that I can stand upon in the hard times and I know that he is with me and he is guiding me and he is I don't have to control everything I can offer it over to him and he leads me in ways that are more amazing than I could ever imagine for myself. First of all thank you very much for sharing all that so many of the things that you just mentioned are difficult to say I'm sure and to share so thank you for sharing that with me thank you sincerely. Second of all it's really amazing that story that you're sharing and then the depths that you found yourself in and then being able to come out into like a more beautiful place is really incredible I'd like to know what transpired after that because you talk about you're in this controversial place and you don't want to call yourself a Christian necessarily. It's hard to yeah at the time now I don't really care what you call it. Okay but you know it's and I think it's hard because when there's Jesus represented in your life all the things like that I judged before everyone judges that it's like oh you're religious you are against this you're against that and like no I'm a human being that has had a physical miracle happened in my life because of Jesus and that's how I walk and that's how I want to live my life and and when that happens and you accept Jesus into your life the amazing thing happens is the Holy Spirit comes there's your comforter and and he dwells inside your body and he dwells in your heart and and then there's a struggle between your fleshy self and the spirit and then there's the journey of sanctification where you start trying to lesson your fleshy self and surrender and let the spirit overtaken you know the fruits of the spirit being peace and joy and love and self-control and all the goodness and all the stuff and it's just like wow yeah I want more of that that's what I want my life that's not my natural state my natural state is to be selfish and what what I want and and I just feel like you know walking in that path it's like I I choose that and and we have what we have those goggles we all have our goggles of our life experience and then we all see things through that place right yeah and then we're either offended or we're mad or we're thinking something right but when you actually talk to somebody you go oh you actually did that because of this oh and then you're like you get the real story and then you're like oh I totally understand totally I have those goggles as well too yeah we'll do right yeah definitely and this is such a big part of doing this show is that I hope that this gives people an opportunity to take the goggles off while they're listening and you really get to see a deeper version of people that live in our community and be able to understand through their experiences and their stories yeah just just more about them so like a question I wanted to ask you was that in terms of being able to be moved by spirit yeah can you give an example or like how that actually manifests itself in the day-to-day reality how you maybe feel a call to do something and then you act on that there's an intimacy with God that happens like when you're alone and I think that it's cultivating a relationship like any relationship you spend time together you talk with each other you learn more about each other you know the Bible being a living word I never understood it before until I read that scripture and I feel like the Holy Spirit can open up scripture for you where you're like oh my goodness like now it makes sense in a way that it never made sense before you know you get a revelation and and God will call me into things sometimes where there was a season last year that he had me getting up at five in the morning spending time reading the Bible and and I would get up and and spend that time and I would write to my journal and I would ask God questions and then I would write the full side of the page and then I would just make a shorter sentences where I feel like he would talk to me and he literally would give me advice on things and and I would just write and then I ask questions and he would give me answers and and and then I would be writing poetry at that time as well and and I just feel like the intimacy grows the more that we spend time with him and I will hear him ask me things and I will you know like even I've heard him say oh you know give this person some money and there's your flash right going I don't have money to give like what do you mean God and God's like well just give this person and then there's your choice right like you choose to follow the spirit you choose to follow the flesh and I remember giving this person money I said I hear I feel like I need to give this to you and they're like oh my goodness I was just this morning talking to my husband about how I'm gonna afford to do this thing that I really want to do and this is like the exact amount of money that I need and I'm like okay great like and so I feel like you know they say like it's such a still small voice God's voice is so quiet and I feel like God's voice is calling all of us like we're all his creation he's like he loves all of us he wants all of us is like the more being you know being a parent and I'm like oh my goodness I want the best for my child I want I want a relationship with my child I want him to come and talk to me when when he needs something and I want to love him and and I have to set boundaries with him because like he can't just eat sugar all day long I have to set a clear boundary but I want the best for him you know and the more that I get to know God and you know I barely have touched the surface I feel like and and I just feel like the more intimate I am with him the more he shares with me and the more I surrender and allow the spirit to guide my actions and I remember when I first became a believer and we would have interactions Matt and I are both fiery and we'd argue or whatever and and I didn't know anything I didn't even know how to read the Bible and but I remember in school when I was younger we would say the Lord's Prayer in the morning time and I remember the Lord's Prayer and I remember going through it and that was the only thing I knew I'd be like our father who art in heaven hello be thy name the kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven give us this day our daily bread forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us lead me not into temptation but deliver me from evil and I remember when we would be arguing and I'd be like Lord leave me not to temptation deliver me from evil leave me not to temptation deliver me from evil I would just like
pray that over and over again, because I wanted to lash out. I wanted to like argue and fight. And I was like, I don't want to keep perpetuating this cycle that we're going through. I want to be delivered from it. And so then the words became real. And all of a sudden, and then I was like, forgive my trespasses. Wow, God gives us forgiveness to pass on to forgive other people. That is like, wow, it is so mind blowing. Then I'm like, I wish everyone can have a taste of this because who wants to keep perpetuating the same patterns and behaviors and banging their heads against the wall and same fighting and the same addictions and the same, you know, it's just like, wow, like here's literally a narrow door to pass through into this vast abundance, this kingdom of love. And it's just most incredible thing ever. Yeah, you know what you're saying earlier about we're all spoken to. I can think of just today alone, like a handful of times I've been met with choices, decisions I may make as to like whether or not to say this particular thing or do this particular thing already. You know, it's only like the mid afternoon right now. And I feel like when I act on this little voice that I feel it's coming from like a higher spirit. That's the language I use now. I define it. It's such a more enjoyable free flowing day that I have an experience with the world and experience with other people and just makes me feel so much better. But when I'm in resistance to that because I have scarcity issues or I'm concerned that that's not the right thing to do or say so then I don't. That resistance doesn't feel very good at all. And so I agree with you that I think that it is heard. How whatever language you choose to use it is heard by everybody. And that I thank you for sharing your experiences and your thoughts on it because I think it's very important for us as human beings to act upon that. But something else I wanted to touch on as well too. So you explained earlier that you spent so much time exploring different paths and modalities. And then eventually you settled into this experience of having a relationship with Christ. And so in terms of how that's unfolded for you which you've explained and then how is that unfolded within this community that we live in in terms of the island. And so this is something that I have like a vague understanding of but I would love to hear more. And for other people that hear as well too is that the community that exists on Pender Island that you and Matt have made yourselves a part of and what that community looks like a little bit. Right. We used to go to the Hopay Babel Camp. We would have a church a gathering and that we would gather there. We weren't affiliated with the camp but we obviously were because we were meeting there. We would just put it all together. And then COVID happened and everybody just kind of dispersed a little bit. Bobby and Lenny they ran the camp and then they they don't anymore. There's other people running the camp and things have just been changing. And so we were away during COVID and we really missed meeting together. There's something that comes together when you worship and pray and just come together. And so Matt just felt a calling to meet. So and he really felt the need to do it at the community hall. So somewhere that was a neutral territory. There's a lot of people that have been hurt by the church brought up a certain way or you know. And he just was called to meet there. So we've started meeting on Sundays at 10 30 upstairs at community hall. And so we've just started you know just with emails our little group and a few people have come and and I just saw this winter I felt like God just placed on my heart. There's a light in the darkness. And I just said to Matt I said babe I just feel like people need to know that there's a light in the darkness because it is a really dark time for a lot of people anxiety and a lot of things going on and and the pender post was all booked up. And it happened to be a friend of ours had a pre-booked a couple January and February. And I said I just I just see like a light in the darkness. I don't know what that means but you know Matt he'd always make our posters so he does all the stuff. He's like okay well let's take out an ad just to because I just had this vision like it was on the back cover and I just you know someone in this dark dark place just looking over and seeing there is a light in the darkness and the scripture is there's a light in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome. And there is a light in the darkness. And then we have February's and then you know another thing like you're saying when you go against that voice or whatever and you know what Jesus says is like I my peace I leave with you I leave my peace and I'm like oh we're lacking peace. I don't know many people that have peace in their hearts you know even believers have a hard time sometimes to really surrender that flash over to really let the spirit in because it's peace and so we just gather on Sundays and you know 10 o'clock we want to come for coffee 10 30 start. I'm seeing worship songs and have a lesson Matt will teach something or Bobby or and then we have a a sharing time which is really important where people share what's going on in their life or maybe how God speaking to them or and it's cool to see the woven thread of God throughout our conversation on how he's moving and and changing people's lives and then we do communion every week which is you know what Jesus on his last day to communion with his disciples and said do this in remembrance of me and it just feels like that thread from 2000 years ago of that he has left in our hands to do together and it's in remembrance of him and and it's a a covenantal connection with each other you know they it's sort of called the body of Christ which is his church and when you think about a body you know there's an ear and there's nose and your heart and your eyes and and we all are a different part of the body but we all come together and we make one body and that's what it feels like on pender there's the community church there's the angle church and there's all these churches and I'm like I feel like we're all one we're all together and so we may meet in separate places but we all interact in ways that are you know so and then we have a potluck every week we're like I try and make enough food for everybody even if someone can't bring anything but to come and eat together and then we eat together and having that fellowship together every week where we get to have food and conversation and know that you're not alone we're here and we love you and we're doing life together and that's what I feel like we're called to do in a community is to do life together but we do it in in a spiritual way where Christ is at the center of our you know well right we're all coming to this wealth for living water that literally is life giving you know it's the most tangible life giving thing I've ever experienced and you know and whoever feels that call that's like we're there for them you know I think it's important that's amazing that's amazing I was just thinking you know while you were speaking about the the vulnerability that comes within all this and so for myself I've come to realize somewhat recently that I'm at odds with vulnerability I love talking about vulnerability but actually participating in it I shun because it's hard and so in terms of you and Matt starting this and then encouraging people to come and then sharing that space and the music and the time together it seems like there's a significant amount of vulnerability but there's a lot of payoff to it it sounds like to me oh my goodness yes it is amazing to just see people's lives being transformed and just even praying together and praying for each other you know to know that there's somebody out there praying for you and it's it's incredible and that's where you're talking about earlier like you know how do you experience the spirit it's you know we'll be worshiping and then all of a sudden there's just a shift in the atmosphere where you can just sense it's just different I don't know you sense it with music right like all of a sudden everyone's connected to the song or there's something there's a external presence that is just everyone sort of I don't know how to describe it and it just shifts the energy and then there's a it moves you in a way that that it's hard to understand and some people are uncomfortable by it you can see there's an agitation sometimes I think
I think the spirit sometimes brings up uncomfortable things and can be a little bit unpredictable in a way that it's predictable. I think maybe our reactions to it are unpredictable. I don't know why everyone can sense differently, right? Like, I'll walk into room. I'm such a feeler that I'll connect with people and be like, oh, I feel something under the surface or I feel like I just feel rooms and I feel people. And some people like, what? I don't even know what you mean, walk into room, be like, I don't sense anything. I'm like, whoa, there's something I can sense something here. So everyone is different in their gifts, right? They're different. So to have people come in with their gifts and just share parts of who they are and we're not meant to do life alone. I think we're meant to do life together and it feels better together. And we were like that gather, like we're better together. That's why we gather, you know, and those tangible moments, I think, were so spirit-filled but there wasn't a name for it. It wasn't church, but it felt spirited there too. And I think that's why people were so touched by it. Like, people would just walk into the room and they were like, I don't know what's going on and they just would weep. And I would walk around that room praying and anointing it and just like, you know, I just, the spirit, weld in that room. And I feel like where we go and come together and pray together and the Holy Spirit's with us, you know, when Christ is at the center. - Well, I love how activated you and Matt both are with taking on different projects and just jumping in with both feet to different things, whether it be music or restaurant or this particular situation, which sounds really nice. And so this episode is going to be coming out in April, but I would imagine still in April, you're probably going to keep going. - I will be there till June for sure and then we'll reevaluate where we end up or we continue on there. I mean, some Sundays it's booked, you know, like especially during choir, you know, so we have to spring choir, we'll have to move somewhere. Sometimes we'll just host it at our house. And maybe in the summer we might just do, you know, in a garden somewhere, we'll just see what comes about. - Yeah. And so if anybody's interested, and that's, you said it was 10, 30 on Sundays. - Yeah. - That community hall. - Yeah, and we're calling yourself the common table because we all, so many of us come from different, maybe religious backgrounds, not religious backgrounds, but doctrinal backgrounds. People have so many different opinions on scripture and how they think it should be interpreted that we just come, Christ is the center and we all come to this common table. And I think there is even an email, commontablegmail.com, I would guess I'm not sure exactly but it does hold up. - Well, you can find us if you need to find us. - Yeah, it's nice for people to know. It's nice because we were talking earlier, we were having a nice conversation. My wife, Geneva, was here too. And, you know, I think we all very strongly agreed that a lot of people are having a hard time right now. - Yes. Yeah. My heart aches to think that people are alone going through these hard times and thinking that they're the only ones. Like I remember even just going through the hard time as a mom and being like, I'm the only one going through this and you just feel so guilty and alone. And it's like you're not alone. Like there's people out there that love you and God loves you. Like, and it's hard because there's so many things around it that aren't the truth that, you know, we're so filled. And I think that happens where we're so filled that we can't learn anything new. You know, we're talking about goggles, right? Like we see if we can we empty our cup with what we think that we know. And can we just keep that cup empty and let spirit or something beyond ourselves. And it's not like we have to be careful because there's a whole other spiritual part of the world that there is a lot of darkness spiritually. You know, there is, you know, I believe the enemy that does want to separate, create confusion, you know, oppression, you know, I don't know how to describe it, but you know, you feel it. It's really, you know, the spirit of offense. There's a lot of like intensity out there that, you know, the Holy Spirit and God really wants us to come together and have peace and joy and love. And, you know, I think there's an enemy out there that just wants to divide and separate and hurt and that's sort of what it feeds off of, you know, I always think of like feeding off of something, right? Like there's a goodness that feeds off love and then there's the darkness that feeds off anger and anxiety and depression and it loves, loves it when we're stuck there. - Yeah. - But God's like, no, there's a light, there's peace, there's a light in the world. There's like, I love you. You were beautifully, wonderfully made. I made you in my image. Our image it says in the Bible. When I read that, I'm like, our image, you know, it's all like it's not this man up in this cloud that's like wanting to come and like smite you for your sin. Like, and I think a lot of people think that. Like he's ready with this wrath to like take you out and like, oh my goodness. When I found out like, you know, sin is like literally an archery term, meaning missing the mark. I'm like, oh my goodness. - I've never heard this before. - Isn't that hilarious? Like I'm like, here I'm like, the scary sin is like this big religious word. I'm like, no, it's literally an archery term, meaning not hitting the bulls-eye or missing the mark. I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, we all do that. - You will be punished. - I know, right? And I'm punished. - But you know, it's funny, 'cause it's like the punishment is our own, like you said, when I don't follow the path to peace, we know the punishment is like anxiety. All that stuff kind of comes. Like, it's like there's this flow of this river and we hold on to the rock and we're getting smashed by the water. That's a punishment. It's not like someone's punishing us. It's like we're literally punishing ourselves by holding onto the rock. But if we like go of the rock and flow in that living water, we're like, ah, it's peaceful. Oh my goodness, this is like a holy world. It's like, ah, this is wonderful. And there's other people in this beautiful living river of water and it's like, oh, here's this kingdom of God that exists, that is like amazing, you know? - Yeah, you know, you said earlier, God loves you and I actually had a ripple go through my body of something that didn't feel very good. - Yeah. - And it's because just hearing those words, it landed with such discomfort for me because I think that, I like to think I'm like a lot of people. I think that we're very similar all of us. - Yeah. - So obviously we're unique individuals, but I think there's a lot of similarities and through lines through us. But it's difficult to really have acceptance for being loved. I mean, as like ridiculous as that sounds, it's actually hard to do. It's way more easier to be outraged at something. And take a fence and be pissed off. But to be like, oh, I'm gonna receive love right now. And I was just like, I was amazed that that was the feeling that came up in my body when you said, God loves you. I was like, well, I'm not ready to be loved. - No. (laughing) - It's true. And I remember like I started a blog or something and I have start things all the time. And it was like called journey to the G word because I couldn't even say God, I couldn't say that word. It was so triggered by it that I'm like, I can't even use that word. And it's just, and then when I read, like Matt and I are journey, we always knew love was the answer. We'd say about love, like everything was a love. Even we put our album out before we were fully, like we were believers, but not completely, but we would sing about the Holy Spirit. Like we wanted to follow, like we knew God was love, you know? And then I remember being traveling in Thailand and I remember, you know, that we've had a dream that was more like a, like I feel like I was taken into the universe. And I remember I had a question and I was like, I could ask a question. I was like, what is the answer to everything? And it was a resounding love. Love is the answer to everything. And I was like, yes, I know that. I feel that in my entire being. But I have tested Matt, my whole relationship, even unconsciously, do you really love me? Am I really loveable? And I think that's such a big question in our hearts. Are we really loveable? And that is probably the hardest thing because the love that we relate to is a human love. And we have been hurt and there's strings attached to human love and there are so many things wrapped around it that it is way more painful than it's worth, you know? But God's divine love is patient. He's so patient and loving and he's waiting for us with open arms. He's like, I love you and I'm just waiting patiently for you. I'm calling out your name. I'm knocking on your door. And just waiting for you to open the door and let me into your heart. That's it. And that is life changing. But how do we get past that visceral experience of, whoa, no, that's way too close for comfort.
I can't let that into my heart. What's going to happen if I realize how lovable I am, you know? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I super appreciate you talking about these things. And you know, like for for myself, I have an aversion and I was really looking forward to having this conversation with you and recording this for other people to hear as well too, because I think that this is really important. All the things that you're saying just resonate so well with me. And I don't have a relationship with organized religion or with God per se, but I think it's fascinating to hear about someone's individual experience and what they're perceiving and people that they're connecting with and just to hear a different take on things. And all the things you're saying really, really add up and make a lot of sense. And before we shift gears into a different subject, is there any last thing that you want to say about all this? Well, I think I wish there was a cool like I could leave away religion from God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Trinity, because I think that a lot of religion has been so corrupt. And when people put it all together and they're like, well look what happened. And like those are human beings that did those things. And when I read read in the Bible and was like, love God with all your heart and love each other, I'm like, that is not love. That is not love. Love. And I think it's in James and the Bible is like, they will know you by how you love each other. That's it. And how do you cleave religion from that place? I don't know. Like that's where I feel like the more I talk to believers and I hear their experience, I'm like, wow, you had a miracle from God. And you now have given your life over to it because you know that that's real and that tangible. And you know in your day, when you take time to pray and to dwell in the presence of the Lord, your whole day is transformed. And when you choose not to or say you're busy in life happens, all of a sudden like what's going on? Why am I so out of balance? It's like, ah, because I haven't like hooked in to that place, right? Where it's like the matrix, right? You take a pill, you know, and then you unlock into this place and you're like, wow, like you start seeing things through new eyes. And then it's not always good. It's not easy. You know sanctification when you're having to carve these things out of your heart, you know, like you're getting pruned, those behaviors and those patterns that are so flashy and hurtful, we all have them. That's part of, you know, the human nature. But when you start to really honestly do that and you become submissive to a higher power and a higher place, it's like, wow, this is way better. But it's not easy to be submissive to anybody or anything, especially nowadays. That's like a really hard thing to even say, let alone to allow, you know, because we were talking about that earlier, like how scary it is to the unknown, right? If we actually try and unclench our fists to try and loosen the grip on our own lives to allow, you know, the divine to come in, what is going to happen? Yeah. Yeah. This is from when we were talking earlier, I was mentioning to share just for the listeners that I was saying that I feel like I've been hanging on to life like so rigidly to the point it hurts. And like the idea of just letting go is so terrifying. Because what comes after you let go? And I've had experiences in my past where I have let go and great things have actually happened. And you actually replied to in terms of letting go and having a net come in. Take the leap and the net will appear. Yeah. Yeah. That's from the artist's way years ago. And it always has appeared. Take the leap and a net will. And the net will appear. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one to remember. I'm going to write that down on the fridge. But that's what I was saying. Like I had a vision, you know, of blackness and, you know, God guiding me to take a step. Yeah. And I would take a step and all of a sudden there'd be a stone pillar under my foot and then I'm taking another step into the darkness. And I'm like, okay, God, I don't know idea. And then bang another stone pillar. And it's like we don't often see the outcome. But when you walk in obedience, all of a sudden all these pieces come together and the bigger picture of this beautiful tapestry unfolds and you're like, oh my goodness, I never could have seen that or planned that. Like, you know, and we often talk. It's like it's the God that created the whole universe who created photosynthesis, who the moment the little heart beat starts beating when you were just cells, you know, like that place that just wants to move and grow and flourish and divine beauty. Watch, look at the sunset and the world is beautiful. Beautiful. And don't we want more of that beauty? Don't we want our hearts to reflect more of that beauty? Don't we want our relationship to reflect more of that beauty? Like to me, I just feel like, yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I want that. That's true. It's true. No beauty. Like, that's great. Let's take a step way back. And where did you grow up? Share where did you grow up? Oh, I was born in Calgary. My dad was in the RCMP. And so we traveled, we moved around a lot. The story goes that my dad said that I went to a new school and I walked up to the teacher and I said, oh, don't bother getting to know me because we're just gonna move again. I think his heart was like, oh, my goodness. This isn't good. So we ended up, he in Central San at she came a police officer there. And he would commute, actually, I lived in Seanigan, like, from grade three to grades seven, I guess. And then went to Stellis and grade eight, maybe a year before that. But yeah, so I went to high school in Brentwood Bay and your dad was in RCMP obviously. You was and then he became a police. He was in the army. I come from an army family. Okay. Years. What? I did not know this. Yeah. My dad, in the army, my grandpa, my great grandpa, it's like history of of being a battle or was that was that something that was impressed upon you as a future path for yourself? No, no, no, no, no, no, but your dad did he present that as a possibility or say you're not gonna do that. No, no, it just never. When I was younger, when we lived in Seanigan, like, we had a couple hairdressers live across the street and married a couple. And I had a business. I think they owned a salon together. And then I was like, oh, I just want to be hairdresser. I don't know why. So then I just was like, I don't even need to really try in school too much. Just got, you know, basic grades. And I was like, what do I need to do to be hairdresser? And then I just didn't apprenticeship in Brentwood Bay. And then so I did that when I was 17 because I graduated at 17 and then I've been doing hair ever since. So that was my journey. And so you've been cutting hair since the age of 17? Yeah, really? Yeah. Okay. So I did two year apprenticeship and then went into the, and I've worked many salons. Like there's a salon downtown called Fish on Broad Street. Like I did the downtown thing. I did the, you know, rent a chair thing, did the home basement, you know, in my own home thing. Okay. Well, I love talking about people's careers and hearing about experiences and things that they've learned along the way. But what was it about hairdressing that you enjoyed? And also maybe what are some of the things about that career that people might not know exists from behind the scenes you can share with people? I really enjoyed the connection with people. You know, I did a lot of traveling and leaving my clients and that was really hard. I really missed them because they were, you know, every four or six weeks like I would connect with them and I knew their life and their families and, you know, it just become intertwined in their lives and it's always hard to leave that behind, actually. But in, I don't know. Well, the relationships, that's kind of interesting. So people would come in on a regular basis and you could get to work. Yeah. Like we were really part of, like, felt like they're part of my family in a way because they were. Because I mean, they would share intimate things and their family and their life and, you know, there's, what do they say, you know, like hairdressers and bartenders and whatever. It's like you've become that person that they can confide in and and connect with and I always appreciated that connection. But I mean, the harder, the hard part is like people that maybe feel like they are losing control in their lives, feel like, you know, their hair is the only thing that they can control and then there's this weird dynamic around their hair that, you know, it's like can be a little bit unsettling. You know, it's an external thing, but it can be important at the same time, you know. Well, it's super emotional as well too. Yeah, for sure. I know that I don't really have much hair and I haven't had a, a traditional haircut in many, many years. It's just going to the bathroom and buzz it down. But I know from women in my life that it's, it's a very emotionally charged thing. Yeah, it's identity is, you know, when you identify with your hair and I've shaved my head a few times and it was so freeing because I'm like, oh no,
like, you know, you don't have to worry about it. And then there's this freedom that comes because you realize how much is tied to your hair, how people treat you differently, how there's a whole thing about it. - People treat you differently based on how your hair is. - Oh, absolutely. If you have long hair, opposed to a shaved head, you can treat it totally differently. - Nice. - And like it's just, 'cause you think there again, there's a goggles, right? - Yeah. - You perceive someone as being, you know? If someone's like a shaved head in tattoos, and someone with long hair and no tattoos, you just kind of, through that filter, relate to them in different ways. And you don't even realize it. - Well, what were some of the clear differences you experienced having a shaved head versus having long hair in interactions with you? - You get looked at differently. You know, I think even just being a woman with long hair, I think men just look because it's long hair, I don't know. And with a shaved head, it's just a different reality. I'm too old for that now, so I don't even notice. (laughing) It's funny, 'cause as I go forward in my life, I just, whatever happens in the past, I just forget about it. Like, I don't know, I'm just like, here now, doing what I'm doing, I'm like, I don't even remember what it was like back then. It's interesting. - No way, and fair enough, it was a long time ago, right? - Yeah, really long ago. - Like somebody who was asking me what I was feeling and thinking when I was in my 20s, I would have a hard time, right? - Yeah, it's hard, right? - Yeah. - You know? - Well, to bring this interview full circle, this one I kept in the back of my mind from the very beginning, what was the music festival, you and Matt met at? - Oh, in Eukulet, sound wave it was called. And that summer, I was single for the first time in a long time and I was loving being single. And I was supposed to go to the Courtney music festival with a friend of mine, and I had seen this thing for sound wave and I don't know why, but I had this calling. I'm like, I had to go and my friend was so mad at me and I'm like, I'm so sorry, like I have to go to this. I don't know why. And as I'm driving up, I'm like, I love being single, I wanna be single forever, really so awesome. And then in my mind go, well, if I did meet somebody, I'd really like to meet somebody who knew music and I really like to learn about music. And you know, I'm just, you know, I have these conversations ahead and I get there. And he was one of the first people that I had met and we just started talking and it was funny 'cause I was like, hey, in the back of my car, I've got like all these raw food treats and fruit from the farm, do you wanna come? And like, you know, so he's like, okay, so we start walking and like literally as we're walking, I just kept like falling into him. There's just like weird magnetic, like physical magnetic charge that pulled me and I kept banging and I'm like, oh, I'm sorry, I keep like banging into him, really sorry. And we get there and we're just like in the back seat, the giant cooler in the back, he's on one side, I'm on the other and we're the eating on this fruit. And then we're literally talking about, what's your dream? My dream is to have a house on an island. And I'm like, oh, really? A house on an island, me too, with a rain barrel, with a rain barrel, me too. And then he's like, and a whole bunch of kids. I was like, oh, and in my mind, like, oh, that's too bad. I'm not having children. I guess I was 37 when I met him. And he was 28, so he was quite a bit younger than me. And I'm like, oh, that's too bad. And then the next day, he had found a place, 'cause I needed a place to camp at. And he's like, oh, right next to us, there's a free camping place. So like, oh, perfect. So I camped there and we chatted all night, went to my tent and he went to his staying in his van. And then the next morning there was this little note he left and I still have it. And it says, you know, me, Cassie, you, Cassie, that was an epic night, you know, talking for sure. And he had set up a fire without starting it with a little lighter on top of it for me to just start. And he was doing parking. That was how he was volunteering, parking to be there. And I was like, oh, I got him a coffee and I walked out and just as I walked up, he was like, there she is. And he goes, I was just writing a song about you. And I'm like, what? You're writing a song about me? And so we were just chatting. And then we just started talking. And we're both like fair scans. So we're like hiding in the trees to try and get some shade. And then all of a sudden, we touched hands. And there was a shock that went through both of our bodies. And we pulled our hand away. And I'm like, did you feel that? And he's like, did you feel that? And so we're both just like, you know, and then the next day I had to go, oh, I'm sorry. I have to be honest. I'm just, I did not have children. And he's like, that's OK. I don't care. I want to be with you. And then the prophecy happened. Of course, we had a child and the rest is history. Amazing. Yeah. There she is. I was just writing a song about you. I know. I was like-- and it was funny how you take things for granted, because you wrote so many songs about me. I'm like, oh, another love song about me. Oh, and I'm like, oh, my goodness. And then years of a five, and he didn't write one about me. And then he's like, I know more love songs about me. But he just gets inspired by lots of different things. And then when he does, I'm like, oh, there's a love song. So sweet. That's awesome. Share it seriously. You're such a great storyteller. Oh, my goodness. You really are. Two kinds. And sincerely, really great story. We're going to wrap this up. But before we do, I'm going to get the last word to you. And is there anything that you want to say that you didn't express or share? And you can take your time as long as you need. Anything that you feel like you want to end off with? I think I really want people to know that they are loved as hard as it is to hear that. That God loves them so much. And that there is a world that exists outside of the pain. And it's available to every single person. And I'm not one to judge anyone's life. That's not my place. But I love people so much. And I want to embrace everyone in a hug and just tell them that you are loved. It's OK. And you're not alone. You are not alone. And that we're here. Oh, God's here. He's right there, like right next to you. He's in your heart. He's in every breath. The Holy Spirit is there. All right. How about that? Thank you very much to share for doing that interview with me. Thanks to Ben Maconkey as well, too, for providing the theme music to this podcast. And thank you for listening. Until next time.
PodcastTranscript AI